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View Full Version : current stars with championship(s) vs current stars with no championships



FOBolous
07-26-2011, 11:10 PM
with championship(s)

PG - Jason Kidd / Rajon Rondo / Chauncey Billups
SG - Kobe Bryant / Dwayne Wade / Manu Ginobili
SF - Paul Pierce / Ron Artest
PF - Kevin Garnet / Dirk Nowitzki
C - Tim Duncan / Pau Gasol


without a championship

PG - Chris Paul / Deron Williams / Derrick Rose
SG - Kevin Durant / Monta Ellis
SF - Lebron James / Carmelo Anthony
PF - Chris Bosh / Amare Stoudemire / Blake Griffin
C - Dwight Howard / Kevin Love


if all the players are in their prime...which team would win?

Hellcrooner
07-26-2011, 11:12 PM
with championship(s)

PG - Rajon Rondo / Tony Parker / Chauncey Billups
SG - Kobe Bryant / Dwayne Wade / Manu Ginobili
SF - Paul Pierce / Ron Artest
PF - Dirk Nowitzki / Kevin Garnet
C - Tim Duncan / Pau Gasol


without a championship

PG - Chris Paul / Deron Williams / Derrick Rose
SG - Kevin Durant / Monta Ellis
SF - Lebron James / Carmelo Anthony
PF - Amare Stoudemire / Blake Griffin / Zach Randolph
C - Dwight Howard / Kevin Love


if all the players are in their prime...which team would win?

i wouldnt start Duncan over Pau as of 27-07-2011.

But anyway answering your question.

Ring winners mop the floor with the upstars ( bosh should be in the "losers" team btw)

Kashmir13579
07-26-2011, 11:13 PM
The team with Chris Paul, Lebron James, and Dwight Howard.

Gators123
07-26-2011, 11:13 PM
The team with Chris Paul, Lebron James, and Dwight Howard.

Yup.

still1ballin
07-26-2011, 11:18 PM
Put Jason Kidd over Rondo

WadeKobe
07-26-2011, 11:20 PM
All I know is I would not hire you as the GM or coach... why would you start Dirk over KG? Duncan/KG at 5/4 would be hellish. And why Rondo over Kidd?

And no-defense Amar'e against KG and Duncan!?!?

This is insanity.

Replace Amar'e with Chris Bosh, and you've got a game... but KG and Duncan are just too much for any no-ring PF and Dwight to handle in their primes. Durant/LeBron/CP3 would give the rings team a run for their money, but Paul Pierce knows how to defend Bron, and that team is just too good in the post.

Kidd
Wade/Kobe
Pierce
KG
Duncan

is a defensive dream team which opposing teams could only imagine in their nightmares. Duncan and KG could anchor a paint in any era, with any supporting cast, and instantly contend for a title. Give me the rings team.

ETA: I fixed it by putting Kidd in the PG slot as a previous poster mentioned. I also edited my idiotic comment about Wade.... I'm drunk! Lol.

tredigs
07-26-2011, 11:24 PM
i wouldnt start Duncan over Pau as of 27-07-2011.

But anyway answering your question.

Ring winners mop the floor with the upstars ( bosh should be in the "losers" team btw)

Ring winners mop the floor? Uhhh? Although Pau and D. Wade would likely be the starters on this team, I'd quite easily take the non-champs here. That's 4 of the top 5 players in the NBA - maybe 4 of the top 6 depending on your discretion. It holds he only elite center in the league (would absolutely CRUSH Pau/Duncan, the best scorer, the best point guard (backed up by the most explosive PG/current MVP)... and that's before we even talk about Lebron.

Could very well be a sweep for the non-champs.

PocketKings
07-26-2011, 11:26 PM
Wade has a ring.

It should be...

Kidd / Rondo / TP
Kobe / Wade / Manu
Pierce / Artest
KG / Dirk
Duncan / Pau

vs.

CP3 / Deron / DRose
Durant / Joe Johnson
Lebron / Melo
Bosh / Amare / Love
Dwight / Hibbert

I'm a Lakers fan if your wondering.

Edit: Just realized that this is with all players in their prime.

PocketKings
07-26-2011, 11:26 PM
Edit:

If all players are at their prime, I take stars with championships.

KG + TD would anchor that defense at such a ridiculous rate.

FOBolous
07-26-2011, 11:29 PM
All I know is I would not hire you as the GM or coach... why would you start Dirk over KG? Duncan/KG at 5/4 would be hellish. And why on earth is KD getting the nod over Wade, especially out of position?

And no-defense Amar'e against KG and Duncan!?!?

This is insanity.

Replace Amar'e with Chris Bosh, and you've got a game... but KG and Duncan are just too much for any no-ring PF and Dwight to handle in their primes. Wade/LeBron/CP3 would give the rings team a run for their money, but Paul Pierce knows how to defend Bron, and that team is just too good in the post.

Kidd
Kobe
Pierce
KG
Duncan

is a defensive dream team which opposing teams could only imagine in their nightmares. Duncan and KG could anchor a paint in any era, with any supporting cast, and instantly contend for a title. Give me the rings team.

ETA: I fixed it by putting Kidd in the PG slot as a previous poster mentioned.

Wade has a championship.

pd7631
07-26-2011, 11:29 PM
All players in their primes......the team with championships has the game won before it even starts. Most of the guys listed without championships are a bunch of happy go-lucky clowns that would have their wills shattered by the killers on the other team.

aussie
07-26-2011, 11:30 PM
without

asandhu23
07-26-2011, 11:32 PM
Chris Paul and Monta Ellis combo is a beastly combo.

remember this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLKHC4uTKaY

RevisIsland
07-26-2011, 11:32 PM
The team with Chris Paul, Lebron James, and Dwight Howard.

This

Stuckey#3
07-26-2011, 11:34 PM
All players in their primes......the team with championships has the game won before it even starts. Most of the guys listed without championships are a bunch of happy go-lucky clowns that would have their wills shattered by the killers on the other team.

I agree. Some of the championship winners are in the twilight of their careers (KG, Timmy); but I think the winners win based on defense and pure toughness.

pd7631
07-26-2011, 11:36 PM
Didn't Dirk and Kidd just take out Lebron and Bosh THIS YEAR? And we're talking about these guys being able to have their PRIME abilities back.....and people are seriously saying that the team without championships would win?

tredigs
07-26-2011, 11:37 PM
I agree. Some of the championship winners are in the twilight of their careers (KG, Timmy); but I think the winners win based on defense and pure toughness.

Ehhh - the non-champs have the toughest wing defender in the league and by far the toughest post-defender in the league. With Chris Paul running the show and capable of orchestrating the offense along with Lebron while KD is allowed to come off non-double team screens? Throw in the elite athleticism and offensive explosiveness that a bench that holds guys like Griffin and D. Rose? Jesus, it would be murder.

Hellcrooner
07-26-2011, 11:40 PM
Ring winners mop the floor? Uhhh? Although Pau and D. Wade would likely be the starters on this team, I'd quite easily take the non-champs here. That's 4 of the top 5 players in the NBA - maybe 4 of the top 6 depending on your discretion. It holds he only elite center in the league (would absolutely CRUSH Pau/Duncan, the best scorer, the best point guard (backed up by the most explosive PG/current MVP)... and that's before we even talk about Lebron.

Could very well be a sweep for the non-champs.

i would swear howard did jack against pau in the finals.

and if we are talking primes as some posters have suggested then duncan chews dwight and kg who would be the starter and not dirk can thread on non winners pf any day of the week,.

tredigs
07-26-2011, 11:40 PM
Didn't Dirk and Kidd just take out Lebron and Bosh THIS YEAR? And we're talking about these guys being able to have their PRIME abilities back.....and people are seriously saying that the team without championships would win?

I just now see that he changed the thread to "All-Players in their prime". That either wasn't the case or I missed it initially. Now we're into extra fantasy territory, but I'll take the current champs in 7 in this scenario.

In a hundred 7 game series I think the final result is ~58/42 in favor of the champs.

PocketKings
07-26-2011, 11:41 PM
Ehhh - the non-champs have the toughest wing defender in the league and by far the toughest post-defender in the league. With Chris Paul running the show and capable of orchestrating the offense along with Lebron while KD is allowed to come off non-double team screens? Throw in the elite athleticism and offensive explosiveness that a bench that holds guys like Griffin and D. Rose? Jesus, it would be murder.

If we're talking all players in their prime...

Kidd and Kobe are far superior than CP3 and Durant defensively speaking and you can argue even offensively.

Artest in his prime would give Lebron a real run for his money for toughest wing defender and may even hold that title.

And if we're talking post defense, KG and TD in their prime > Dwight IMO.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-26-2011, 11:42 PM
Why is Artest there? Replace him with Ray Allen.

In their prime, a combination of Duncan and Garnett is unstoppable.

Their defense is too great to overcome even for rim attackers like Howard, Amare, Lebron and Rose.

tredigs
07-26-2011, 11:43 PM
If we're talking all players in their prime...

Kidd and Kobe are far superior than CP3 and Durant defensively speaking and you can argue even offensively.

Artest in his prime would give Lebron a real run for his money for toughest wing defender and may even hold that title.

And if we're talking post defense, KG and TD in their prime > Dwight IMO.

Yeah - mentioned it in my last post, I had no idea he edited to say in their primes (or I missed it). Agreed, champs now have the edge. But that may change if we project forward to Durant/Rose/Griffin's prime, and even guys like Howard/Lebron who still have facets that they can and should improve. Somewhat of an unfair comparison at this point.

Also agreed with Raps above me that Ray Allen needs to be on that team. Artest could be a valuable piece, but goes behind him in the pecking order. Also, might as well throw in Ben Wallace while you're at it. I'd take a prime Wallace on that team over Pau in a heartbeat.

PocketKings
07-26-2011, 11:45 PM
I voted for Stars w/o Rings not realizing it was in their primes.

KG & TD in their primes is seriously, no homo, bonerific. That's like almost too perfect of a combo.

To add in perimeter defenders like Kidd, Kobe, and Artest that's just nasty.

FOBolous
07-26-2011, 11:47 PM
I just now see that he changed the thread to "All-Players in their prime". That either wasn't the case or I missed it initially. Now we're into extra fantasy territory, but I'll take the current champs in 7 in this scenario.

In a hundred 7 game series I think the final result is ~58/42 in favor of the champs.

its always been like that....i just bolded and underline it because it seems like a lot of you are missing it. i did make a few adjustments like having KG start instead of Dirk and adding Kidd and Bosh to the lineups

Hellcrooner
07-26-2011, 11:49 PM
Yeah - mentioned it in my last post, I had no idea he edited to say in their primes (or I missed it). Agreed, champs now have the edge. But that may change if we project forward to Durant/Rose/Griffin's prime, and even guys like Howard/Lebron who still have facets that they can and should improve. Somewhat of an unfair comparison at this point.

Also agreed with Raps above me that Ray Allen needs to be on that team. Artest could be a valuable piece, but goes behind him in the pecking order. Also, might as well throw in Ben Wallace while you're at it. I'd take a prime Wallace on that team over Pau in a heartbeat.

are you nuts?????

i woudl disagree if you were talking bout RASHEED wallace.

but ben?

what for?

dont you have enough D with Kg and Duncan?

FOBolous
07-26-2011, 11:51 PM
but yeea...

it seems like the team with championships have better defense

while the team without championships have superior athleticism

in the end, i think it will depend on the pace of the game. if it's an open court, face paced, run n gun game....the team without the championships will win. if it's an half court, slow it down, slug it out game...the team with the championships will win.

as far as comparing each position..in my opinion:

PG - without rings...can't top cp3, dwill, and drose
SG - with rings...kobe and wade is too much
SF - without rings...lebron > pierce & carmelo > ron artest
PF - with rings...2 MVPs? nuff' said
C - without rights...Howard + CP3 is too lethal of combo imo

tredigs
07-26-2011, 11:53 PM
its always been like that....i just bolded and underline it because it seems like a lot of you are missing it. i did make a few adjustments like having KG start instead of Dirk and adding Kidd and Bosh to the lineups

Gotchya - yeah, missed that for sure. My vote definitely slides to the other side. Duncan + Garnett in their prime? Throw in an unselfish prime Kidd and dominant scorer in Kobe? Yowza. Ben Wallace to dominate defensively (alongside Duncan/KG) at a level that not even D. Howard can match? Throw in Dirk, now?

Unfair matchup, really. Though I really would love to see this matchup if Rose/Griffin/Durant are prime.


are you nuts?????

i woudl disagree if you were talking bout RASHEED wallace.

but ben?

what for?

dont you have enough D with Kg and Duncan?

Nuts? It's an insanely easy choice. In his prime, Ben Wallace was one of the best post defenders in NBA history. We don't need Pau's cute post moves (and weak demeanor) amongst these juggernaut offensive options. Just a badass bruiser who doesn't need the ball on offense will do fine.

PocketKings
07-26-2011, 11:54 PM
but yeea...

it seems like the team with championships have better defense

while the team without championships have superior athleticism

in the end, i think it will depend on the pace of the game. if it's an open court, face paced, run n gun game....the team without the championships will win. if it's an half court, slow it down, slug it out game...the team with the championships will win.

I'll take the tough, gritty, and UNDERRATED athletes of the champs verse the non-champs.

In a game of this magnitude you'd want the ball in guys who have PROVEN that they can perform.

Jason Kidd, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, Paul Pierce, KG, and TD all have shown nerves of steel and held their composure in the most crucial moments.

Give me those guys 365 in their prime, with no hesitation.

CHANGO
07-26-2011, 11:58 PM
In their primes of course the ones who have rings.

But right now the players with no rings.

Hellcrooner
07-27-2011, 12:00 AM
make it all time and theres no contest.

winers

Magic / Thomas / Robertson
Jordan/Kobe
Bird / Dr J
Duncan/KG
Kareem/Wilt / Shaq

losers

Stockton/Nash
Lebron/Reggie Miller/George Gervin
Baylor/Mullin
Karl Malone/Barkley
Ewing/Gilmore

Hellcrooner
07-27-2011, 12:10 AM
Gotchya - yeah, missed that for sure. My vote definitely slides to the other side. Duncan + Garnett in their prime? Throw in an unselfish prime Kidd and dominant scorer in Kobe? Yowza. Ben Wallace to dominate defensively (alongside Duncan/KG) at a level that not even D. Howard can match? Throw in Dirk, now?

Unfair matchup, really. Though I really would love to see this matchup if Rose/Griffin/Durant are prime.



Nuts? It's an insanely easy choice. In his prime, Ben Wallace was one of the best post defenders in NBA history. We don't need Pau's cute post moves (and weak demeanor) amongst these juggernaut offensive options. Just a badass bruiser who doesn't need the ball on offense will do fine.

ok then lest play along and since wllace can back up both kg and Duncan at different spurts and you got Ray allen to take three pointers and Kobe, kg and duncan to do all the scoring needed lets throw that weak no defense Dirk out and make Room for Bruce bowen because paul pierce is not gonna hold lebron and durant :p

tredigs
07-27-2011, 12:16 AM
ok then lest play along and since wllace can back up both kg and Duncan at different spurts and you got Ray allen to take three pointers and Kobe, kg and duncan to do all the scoring needed lets throw that weak no defense Dirk out and make Room for Bruce bowen because paul pierce is not gonna hold lebron and durant :p

Hah. With that defense/post scoring along with prime Kidd/Ray/Kobe, they can make Dirk ball boy for all I care.

edit: Can the non-stars get Grant Hill? Throw a dog a bone here.

Hellcrooner
07-27-2011, 12:17 AM
Hah. With that defense/post scoring along with prime Kidd/Ray/Kobe, they can make Dirk ball boy for all I care.

edit: Can the non-stars get Grant Hill? Throw a dog a bone here.

did Penny hardaway ride the heat into a title at the end? i dont remember well if he was there in 06 or before-after

Kevj77
07-27-2011, 04:51 AM
In their primes no question the team with champions wins. Their frontcourt is just insane with Duncan, KG, Dirk and Pau. Kobe and Wade are probably the 2nd and 3rd best SGs of all-time. Offensively the SF position for the non-champs is better, but the champs are better defensively, while PP is no slouch offensively just not on the level of Lebron or Melo. The non-champs win the PG position, but Rondo/Kidd are good defenders and great at passing and I think that is all the champs need from the PG position with that frontcourt and Kobe/Wade at SG.

The champs are are much better defensive team with proven clutch players. No question who wins.

Kevj77
07-27-2011, 05:00 AM
I was assuming that all players are in their primes, most likely if it was as of today and not their primes I would go non-champs. In their prime years though champions without a doubt in my mind

TrueFan420
07-27-2011, 05:04 AM
have to go with players with rings in their primes.

mynameismo
07-27-2011, 07:59 AM
Tough to say since we haven't seen the primes of the no rings team yet.

But if we compare the PRIME Rings team vs CURRENT No Rings team, PRIME Rings team will dominate defensively. Prime KG+TD in the paint would be unbelievable.
Prime Kobe+Wade+Kidd=How do you stop that?

YoungOne
07-27-2011, 08:00 AM
if all are in their prime, the champ team easily..

DodgerBulls
07-27-2011, 08:16 AM
If they are on their prime, then no doubt the one with the rings. The 4 and 5 position would devour that ring less.

synister281
07-27-2011, 08:32 AM
Lebron would bring a fail to that team as well.

Either way, in their prime, the ringed team for sure.

Khalifa21
07-27-2011, 08:50 AM
Now: Non-champs

Prime: Champs

avon_barksdale
07-27-2011, 09:19 AM
wit rings, not even close

Hawkeye15
07-27-2011, 09:33 AM
well, 4 members of the non-ring teams haven't even reached their primes (Rose, Love, Griffin, Durant). The non-ring winners would probably win a series/game. Paul at his best is better than any PG on the ring team, easily. Non ring team in 7. Or in 1, whichever you like

Brooklyn Mets
07-27-2011, 09:46 AM
CP3
Rose
Durant
LeBron
Howard
Randolph
Carmelo
sickkkkkkk

albertc86
07-27-2011, 10:18 AM
It's a little unfair of a match-up because the players with the rings are on the other side of the hill age-wise. The same teams minus the Heat, Detroit and Dallas have been winning in the past decade. It's unfair in that regard... Now if you put them against each other in their prime then it'll be a different story.

Youmad?
07-27-2011, 10:23 AM
Lol the ringless are winning this poll smh

sep11ie
07-27-2011, 10:28 AM
i wouldnt start Duncan over Pau as of 27-07-2011.But anyway answering your question.

Ring winners mop the floor with the upstars ( bosh should be in the "losers" team btw)


You of all people would start Pau over someone??? Really???

sep11ie
07-27-2011, 10:31 AM
Anyways, I don't feel like reading all through this. Are we talking about their performance right now or in their primes?

Cool007
07-27-2011, 11:04 AM
If they are all in their primes then I would go with the ring winners.

J-Kidd in his prime??? Great defender/can post up/triple threat/great vision
D-Wade in his prime? Good luck to your big men staying in the game try to avoid fouls
Kobe in his prime? Good luck to any team stopping him.
Garnett in his prime? Best defender at his position, great range and pretty versatile.
Duncan in his prime? Great 2-way player and with ton of offensive moves and clutch.

There is no way this team loses to the team with no-ring guys. There is a reason why these guys have won the rings as THE MAN on their teams.

Hellcrooner
07-27-2011, 12:04 PM
well, 4 members of the non-ring teams haven't even reached their primes (Rose, Love, Griffin, Durant). The non-ring winners would probably win a series/game. Paul at his best is better than any PG on the ring team, easily. Non ring team in 7. Or in 1, whichever you like

disagree.
Kidd is very underated.

At his prime i would only place Magic, Stockton, Thomas as better players than him ( i consider Oscar a SG)

albertc86
07-27-2011, 12:18 PM
If they are all in their primes then I would go with the ring winners.
D-Wade in his prime? Good luck to your big men staying in the game try to

Wade is still in his prime...

albertc86
07-27-2011, 12:24 PM
disagree.
Kidd is very underated.

At his prime i would only place Magic, Stockton, Thomas as better players than him ( i consider Oscar a SG)

If Paul wins a ring, you can put him above Kidd. He's already on pace of being a better scorer and assist man. Solid defender too.

Kidd a triple threat in his prime/career? His shooting was never particularly great (40%). He should've worked more on his shot, imo, because he had the height advantage against most PG's. Great defense and passer, for sure, though.

I don't see Paul having a longer career than Kidd but you can definitely put him above Kidd if he wins a ring.

basketfan4life
07-27-2011, 12:34 PM
well, 4 members of the non-ring teams haven't even reached their primes (Rose, Love, Griffin, Durant). The non-ring winners would probably win a series/game. Paul at his best is better than any PG on the ring team, easily. Non ring team in 7. Or in 1, whichever you like
i dont think prime paul is better than prime kidd...wait a minute, forgot about the advanced stats crap.

FOBolous
07-27-2011, 01:03 PM
i personally think prime HEALTHY paul is easily one of the top 3 PG in NBA history.

WadeKobe
07-27-2011, 01:17 PM
Wade has a championship.

I edited that. See my post again! lol.

WadeKobe
07-27-2011, 01:26 PM
Ehhh - the non-champs have the toughest wing defender in the league and by far the toughest post-defender in the league. With Chris Paul running the show and capable of orchestrating the offense along with Lebron while KD is allowed to come off non-double team screens? Throw in the elite athleticism and offensive explosiveness that a bench that holds guys like Griffin and D. Rose? Jesus, it would be murder.

Dwight Howard is not the toughest post defender when he is next to prime KG and prime Duncan. Howard doesn't stand a chance. Both those guys are better post defenders.

Hellcrooner
07-27-2011, 03:04 PM
If Paul wins a ring, you can put him above Kidd. He's already on pace of being a better scorer and assist man. Solid defender too.

Kidd a triple threat in his prime/career? His shooting was never particularly great (40%). He should've worked more on his shot, imo, because he had the height advantage against most PG's. Great defense and passer, for sure, though.

I don't see Paul having a longer career than Kidd but you can definitely put him above Kidd if he wins a ring.

you are forgeting something that you cant check on a scoreboard, wherever kidd walks the team is boosted up, because his game makes his teamates better, he is a winner.

paul hasnt proved that he has such an effect yet.

kidd mates look worse when he is gone, pauls┐ chanlder looked better this year with kidd than he ever did with paul

Tony_Starks
07-27-2011, 04:05 PM
In their primes it would be a joke.

Currently it would be more competitive but Id still go with the champs, sub Ron Ron for Ray Allen.

Either way you slice it the ringless would remain ringless.....

BALLER R
07-27-2011, 04:27 PM
in their prime im going with championships....kg and duncan in their prime plus wade and kobe on the wing...look at the celtics when kg arrived their defense improved...now add kg in his prime, duncan, then kidd, kobe n ron artest....defense wins championships so im going with them

tredigs
07-27-2011, 04:59 PM
Dwight Howard is not the toughest post defender when he is next to prime KG and prime Duncan. Howard doesn't stand a chance. Both those guys are better post defenders.

I know - corrected that - if he's against prime KG/Duncan and there's a prime Ben Wallace on the champs, he's the 4th best post defender out of the bench, mostly because despite his elite athleticism, he doesn't play as smart as any of those guys, and just flat out racks up too many dumb fouls. Intangible wise, the other three were methodical killers on D. Despite the accolades due to a weak presence in modern bigs, Dwight isn't in that league.

albertc86
07-27-2011, 05:06 PM
you are forgeting something that you cant check on a scoreboard, wherever kidd walks the team is boosted up, because his game makes his teamates better, he is a winner.

paul hasnt proved that he has such an effect yet.

kidd mates look worse when he is gone, pauls┐ chanlder looked better this year with kidd than he ever did with paul

If you wanna pull that card, I'll pull another one since we're both Lakers fans. The Lakers are the reason why Kidd didn't win a ring in New Jersey. Now those years, the Eastern conference was weak. Every team in the east was basically a one-man wrecking crew (Iverson, Carter, McGrady, Pierce). I know it's unfair to pull that card but it's the truth. Kidd had the best chance of winning with K-Mart and Jefferson than the others did but Shaq and Kobe got in the way. So I wouldn't put too much stock into Kidd being a winner because he thrived in New Jersey during a weak period for the eastern conference.

Paul has only been on one team so save that argument for now. And Chandler looked pretty good with Paul... Remember all those alley-oops and ESPN highlights? You're forgetting one major component that Kidd had --- Dirk.