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View Full Version : NBA Mock Off-Season Playoffs - 2) Oklahoma City Thunder vs. 3) Golden State Warriors



Mile High Champ
07-26-2011, 04:13 PM
Hello Everyone,

Welcome to the NBA Mock Off-season Playoff voting. Every summer, between 50-65 PSD users participate in a game where each GM takes on the challenge of running the off-season for an NBA team. Those GM's are free to make trades, signings, pick up team option on players, conduct the draft etc as ways to help better improve their team. What we have here is the results of those GM's hard-work as we have now reached the playoffs.

Keep in mind when voting that teams have changed dramatically through the mock and many teams are operating with completely new starting line ups. So please take the time to look at the teams closely (depth chart and write up) before voting. Try to avoid being a homer and vote simply on who is the better team in the match up.


2) Oklahoma City Thunder vs. 3) Golden State Warriors



Thunder Have Home Court Advantage


Thunder Depth Chart
C-Al Horford/Spencer Hawes/Dan Gadzuric
F-Udonis Haslem/Carl Landry/Ersan Ilyasova
F-Kevin Durant/Linas Kleiza
G-Manu Ginobili/Vince Carter
G-Devin Harris/Shannon Brown/A.J. Price

Warriors Depth Chart
C: Brendan Haywood/ Ian Mahinmi / Shelden Williams
PF: Chris Bosh/ Shelden Williams/ Peja Stojakovic
SF: Caron Butler/ Josh Howard/ Peja Stojakovic
SG: Kevin Martin/ Corey Brewer
PG: Chris Paul/ Nolan Smith/ Caron Butler


Thunder Write Up


Congratulations to ebbs for advancing to the second round of the playoffs. He did a great job with that roster and we wish him the best of luck the rest of the way.

Stats for this write-up came from 82games, Synergy, and basketball-reference.

This series is a titanic clash between two teams with a hellacious amount of talent and firepower. One particular match-up is going to play a huge role in determining the outcome of this series.

On the perimeter, we can once again lean on Manu Ginobili’s underrated defensive abilities in a match-up against one of the league’s finest scorers in Kevin Martin. Martin specializes in isolations and moving without the ball. Manu defended screen shooters very well last season, holding them to 36% shooting from the field and 21% from beyond the arc. He was even more proficient at defending isolation plays, holding his man to 34% shooting from the field and 25% from three-point range. With no semblance of a scoring punch off the bench, Manu’s defense against Golden State’s primary source of perimeter scoring will hurt.

It’s worth noting that our offense, especially in this series, would consist of a high number of pick-and-rolls initiated by Ginobili. Manu was one of the most proficient wings in the league last season as a PnR initiator, converting on 44% of his attempts off PnRs and contributing nearly .9 points per possession. Coincidentally, Kevin Martin is absolutely atrocious at defending the PnR. He allowed PnR initiators to shoot nearly 50% from the field and 47% from beyond the arc. With the Warriors big men constantly trying to compensate for Martin’s abhorrent defense, Manu will make things easy for our bigs while also getting their bigs into foul trouble.

Kevin Durant dominated a healthy Caron Butler in two meetings last season, averaging 30 points and 8 rebounds on 54% shooting. Butler shot a less-than-respectable 42% from the field in those contests. It should be noted that Butler is coming off a serious knee injury that forced him to miss the vast majority of last season and all of the playoffs. In short, the Warriors have absolutely no answer for Durant.

As far as the Warriors offense goes, Chris Paul will surely initiate even more pick and rolls than Manu. Fortunately we have a perimeter player actually capable of answering Paul's prowess in this area. Shannon Brown defended the PnR with respectable success last season, holding his man to 36% shooting from the field and surrending just 0.78 points per possession. Manu could even defend Paul in certain situations. He was one of the best players in the league at defending the PnR last season, holding ball handlers to 38% shooting and just 0.71 points per possession.

Harris does not excel nearly as much as a defender, but in three meetings with Paul last season, he was actually quite comparable statistically:

12/22: Harris – 21 points, 8 assists, 2 turnovers, 9/14 shooting, 33 minutes
12/22: Paul – 12 points, 14 assists, 1 turnover, 6/8 shooting, 35 minutes

2/9: Harris – 2 points, 6 assists, 4 turnovers, 1/3 shooting, 32 minutes
2/9: Paul – 9 points, 11 assists, 7 turnovers, 4/15 shooting, 50 minutes

4/11: Harris – 18 points, 5 assists, 3 turnovers, 6/13 shooting, 36 minutes
4/11: Paul – 15 points, 5 assists, 2 turnovers, 6/13 shooting, 35 minutes

This is not a suggestion of exactly how the match-up in this series would play out, but clearly Harris is more than capable of contending with the likes of Paul.

The match-up in the frontcourt is as pivotal as any in the series. Udonis Haslem’s tough, rugged defense has given Chris Bosh problems in their last two head-to-head meetings, with the former averaging 20 points on 65% shooting to Bosh’s 22 points on 45% shooting. It would be foolish to suggest that Haslem would outplay Bosh in this series, but it would even more foolish to underestimate Haslem’s defensive ability versus Bosh’s finesse-based offensive game.

Even if Bosh manages to erupt against Haslem and Landry, Al Horford is just as likely to explode against Brendan Haywood and Ian Mahinmi. In fact, Horford posted significantly better percentages than Bosh in isolation (52% vs. 42%), post-up (44% vs. 39%), and PnR (55% vs. 49%) plays last season. That’s where the vast majority of Al’s points in this series would come from.

It’s also worth noting that Haywood is one of the most foul prone centers in the league. In his last playoff appearance as a starter for the Wizards, he averaged 4 fouls per game in less than 30 minutes. Horford’s offensive production is sure to see a spike against Ian Mahinmi for 10-14 minutes a game.

While Haslem tries to limit Bosh’s production at the offensive end, Carl Landry comes off the bench to try to neutralize the offensive output that Bosh is responsible for. Even if Haslem gets into foul trouble, we have an even better defender in Horford to defend Bosh.

This series could easily become a shoot-out between two diverse, potent, and explosive offenses, but we have more firepower, as good a defense, more depth, more experience, and homecourt advantage. Thunder in 6 or 7 games.

Warriors Write Up


Looking at the Thunders Post trio of Horford/Landry/Haslem I feel we can match up well here. Horford is the big gun and the closest thing they have to a defensive anchor. Though Horford is a quality 2 way player he is coming off a pretty average playoff performance. He averaged only 11 points and 9 rebounds on 42% shooting. Horford struggled mightily against Dwight and his large frame this post season, allowing Howard to score a career playoff high 27 points per contest on a career high 63% shooting. Granted we all know Dwight is beastly but Horford is supposed to be a top notch defensive post player. I also feel like right away seeing Brendan Haywood vs. Al Horford people assume I have this huge mismatch against me but it doesn’t appear to be the case. In 9 career meetings Horford is only scoring .6 more points per game but on 3 more shot attempts. Haywood is averaging 62% shooting, while Horford is putting up a percentage of .518. Haywood is the lesser rebounder but it wouldn’t be by as significant of a margin if he wasn’t averaging 9 less minutes per game. In 2010 when both Haywood and Horford both played over 30 minutes Haywood averaged 12 PPG, 10.5 RPG, on .615% shooting. Horford averaged 10 PPG, 9 RPG, on .304% shooting. Despite the more efficient production from Haywood in their meetings I still concede Horford is the better player no doubt. I just wanted people to look at the production the 2 have made and consider that Haywood is 20 pounds heavier and 2 inches taller. I feel that Haywood can control Horford and maybe be the better player for a game or 2 in the series.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=horfoal01

Chris Bosh has a clear advantage over Landry or Haslem. I assume that Horford will guard Bosh at times but that is probably a poor idea for them if Haslem is on the floor. Haywood would then have a 4inch 30 pound advantage against Haslem. Not to mention with Bosh’s ability to put the ball on the floor and shoot mid range jumpers it will clear Horford out of the post. With the recent top Power Forward discussions taking place it saddens me to see how forgotten Bosh has become. Chris Bosh carried two bad teams in Toronto to the playoffs. No he is not a LeBron James or Dwyane Wade. But if you can get past the fact and remember as a #1 option over 5 years he averaged 22.8 PPG, and 9.9 RPG. He also did that scoring on solid percentages in multiple ways. Bosh is a very versatile scorer and can will be a very tough defensive assignment. The best collective here the Raptors had was 2006-07 they won the Atlantic and finished with 47 wins. That year Chris Bosh finished 7th in the MVP award voting. That year Bosh had a rookie Bargnani (3.9 RPG), T.J. Ford, Jose Calderon (playing backup), Anthony Parker, and Rasho Nesterovic (closest thing he had to a true center.) as his supporting cast. Not hard to see why as a team they weren’t more successful. So Basically Bosh was 23 and 10 player for 5 years and now he has Chris Paul who is the best point guard in the game to feed him the ball. He also has Kevin Martin who is probably the best 3rd option offensively in this game as he is a top 15 offensive player in real life. Not to mention Caron Butler as a 4th option. Bosh also for the first time in his career has a true big bodied defensive minded center to play beside him. Something experts said he needed to be successful his whole career. Bosh will be a very tough assignment for the Thunder. Coming off the best defensive season of his career, now joining a defensive center should give him a sizeable advantage against either Haslem or Landry at the other end as well.

Wings:

Kevin Durant and Manu Ginobilli are both very good players. I think they complement each other well. Kevin Durant will be guarded by a mixture of Caron Butler and Corey Brewer. Its unrealistic any sense to think that we will shut down a scorer of Kevin’s skill set but I believe we can slow him down. Kevin Durant is a jump shooter. He likes to rise up and shoot the ball a hell of a lot more than he likes to attack the paint. Last year 87% of his attempts were jump shots. Manu is a similar player at this point in the career he is predominantly a shooter. 76% of his field goal attempts last year were jump shots. That means that there will not be an overwhelming amount of penetration coming from their wing duo. Caron is a physical player who plays strong basketball at both ends of the floor. Caron also has the better +/- of the two players at 8.1 compared to Durants 4.1. I believe Durant will still score 26+ a game in this series but knowing that he wants to take the shot and having a strong similar weighted player (228 Butler vs. 230 Durant) could limit him in the efficiency department.

Also knowing their two best wings like to shoot it up will allow us to focus more on close outs. Kevin Martin is going to let Manu score I’ll be honest we all know it. But Brewer will also spend some time on Manu. And while Manu is the better overall player Martin is going to get his. Martin and Caron are both versatile scorers. Caron is one of the best forwards at shooting off the dribble, though he isn’t a top notch 3 point shooter, against Durant heads up he is averaging over 50% from behind the three point line. I don’t think Durant will overly hinder Caron and I expect him to score his 12-16 on good percentages as a 4th option getting solid looks from Chris Paul. Kevin Martin is one of the most efficient scorers in the NBA. He can bury you from deep he can attack the rim and most importantly he gets to the free-throw line. I believe this will be a tough fought 7 game series so I think we could be looking at some very close 4th quarters and perhaps overtime. Though Paul and Bosh are both nightmares offensively Martins ability to get to the free throw line and close games out is key. Look at what Dirk did offensively for the Mavericks this year, though I don’t believe it many think Dirk is a bad defender. Well if that is true his offense and efficiency was enough to carry the Mavs through the playoffs. Looking at the league leaders at some statistical categories this past season:
Free Throws: 1) Martin, 13) Dirk
Free throw %: 7) Dirk, 8) Martin
PPG: 9) Martin, 10) Dirk
TS%: 9) Dirk, 10) Martin
ORTG: Dirk = 118.4, Martin = 117
OWS: 8) Martin, 9) Dirk

Martin was very similar to probably the league’s best all around offensive player last season. Martin is a offensive monster and he gets to play with a complete starting 5 including the league’s best PG and a top 3 power forward. Also despite everyone hating on Martins defense his 0.175 WS/48 still ranked 20th overall in the NBA last season.

Point Guard:

Chris Paul is going to have his way with Devin Harris. Harris though a quality player has regressed over the past few seasons. I believe he is a better fit in Oklahoma than New Jersey or Utah but his strongest asset is penetration and Chris Paul is not a point guard you can just run past. Paul stopping Harris from getting inside will really hurt this Oklahoma City team which primarily wants to shoot the ball. Al Horford isn’t going to feast inside even 15 points per game might be a lot to expect from him. So the Thunder will rely heavily on how hot their shooting is every night. Harris is also known for his defense granted situations come into play and this is a better defensive team than the Jazz or Nets but DRTG’s of 112, 112, and 111 over the past 3 seasons do seem to show a pattern. Chris Paul has help! Chris Paul absolutely annihilated last season in the playoffs. It was a 6 game sample size sure but he was beyond dominant with his #2 option not even playing he took the defending champions to 6 games. In the playoffs Paul led all players in APG, PER, and WS/48. Chris Paul leads all active players in the NBA right now with a career .233 WS/48. He also leads all active players with an offensive rating of 121 which is pretty special since his teams have never had much offensive fire power. Chris Paul now has two former #1 options in Chris Bosh and Kevin Martin to dish the ball too. He can’t be doubled against my team because he isn’t playing with a bunch of one dimensional role players. And the 3 time all defensive team member, just came off a season where he led the league in steals per game. Those extra possessions will factor into the series and should give my high powered offensive team chances to push a lead.

All respect to Catfish and the Thunder but I believe my starting 5 here is to complete all around to lose this series. I think a team led by Chris Paul with players across the board who are all upgrades in comparison to his former teammates along with two other top offensive options in Bosh and Martin will be too much for the Thunder to counter.

Joshtd1
07-26-2011, 04:19 PM
The matchup I've been excited about the most. I think this would go 7 games, and would make an excellent real life playoff series.

ManRam
07-26-2011, 04:22 PM
This is very close. I'm gonna have to read and think about it...

Chacarron
07-26-2011, 04:23 PM
I love this matchup so much I won't vote.

Mile High Champ
07-26-2011, 04:29 PM
Very torn about this series.

rapjuicer06
07-26-2011, 04:38 PM
Wow ebbs...that was a great write up. This is such a close series, but the Warriors have the best PG in the game who made a bad team in the NOH a challenge for the Lakers last year in the playoffs. And having Bosh and Martin to get the ball to...thats just too much firepower. Neither have too much of a bench...I gave the vote to the Warriors. Gosh that was tough

VCaintdead17
07-26-2011, 04:39 PM
Tough decision. Gotta go with the Thunder though. I think the lack of defense outside of Paul hurts the Warriors tremendously. Both seem like if they were assembled in real life that they would both have great chemistry and balance.

Also, Thunders bench is much better.

Sadds The Gr8
07-26-2011, 04:44 PM
so close but I like OKC i think their depth is the difference

rapjuicer06
07-26-2011, 04:49 PM
Tough decision. Gotta go with the Thunder though. I think the lack of defense outside of Paul hurts the Warriors tremendously. Both seem like if they were assembled in real life that they would both have great chemistry and balance.

Also, Thunders bench is much better.

Lack of defense? Woah, idk about that. Bosh is a fairly decent defender, and Haywood is known for his defense. Butler also too is know to be a pretty good defender himself

VCaintdead17
07-26-2011, 04:58 PM
Lack of defense? Woah, idk about that. Bosh is a fairly decent defender, and Haywood is known for his defense. Butler also too is know to be a pretty good defender himself

Yeah two years ago. Truth is, Butler has slowly declined since being dealt to Dallas. He had an offensive rating of 101 last year and 100 this year. His defense is also nothing to look twice at posting a 106 DRTg and had 1.2 DWS.

Haywood was nothing but average defensively either this season.

CHANGO
07-26-2011, 05:01 PM
Both aren't great defensive teams. But in defense I gave the edge to the Warriors. Plus they have the BEST point guard in the league with two great scorers (three with Butler).

The Chris & Chris duo is scary...

rapjuicer06
07-26-2011, 05:12 PM
Yeah two years ago. Truth is, Butler has slowly declined since being dealt to Dallas. He had an offensive rating of 101 last year and 100 this year. His defense is also nothing to look twice at posting a 106 DRTg and had 1.2 DWS.

Haywood was nothing but average defensively either this season.

I'll give you Butler has declined a bit, but if he can stay in front of a guy, he can guard him very well, and it isn't hard to stay in front of one trick pony Durant. When Durant has someone in his face, he backs off a bit and shoots worse as well

Baller1
07-26-2011, 05:13 PM
Props to the GM's of both teams, but damn that OKC roster is insane. Deep, versatile, and can play on both sides of the court.

OKC in 6.

VCaintdead17
07-26-2011, 05:13 PM
I think what it comes down to is which big 3 would cause more damage, CP3,Martin and Bosh, or Manu, Durant and Horford. And for that I'd have to say,

Manu>Martin
Horford>Bosh
Durant<Paul

Catfish1314
07-26-2011, 05:14 PM
I'll give you Butler has declined a bit, but if he can stay in front of a guy, he can guard him very well, and it isn't hard to stay in front of one trick pony Durant. When Durant has someone in his face, he backs off a bit and shoots worse as well

Durant wrecked Butler last year. And if Durant is a one-trick pony, what do you call Chris Bosh?

mightybosstone
07-26-2011, 05:18 PM
This is insanely difficult to decide. I'll make decision tonight after some serious thought...

Baller1
07-26-2011, 05:19 PM
I'll give you Butler has declined a bit, but if he can stay in front of a guy, he can guard him very well, and it isn't hard to stay in front of one trick pony Durant. When Durant has someone in his face, he backs off a bit and shoots worse as well

If it isn't hard to stay in front him, then why can't anyone stop him?

mightybosstone
07-26-2011, 05:21 PM
Manu>Martin
Horford>Bosh
Durant<Paul

While I realize this is all opinion, this is just wrong...

Manu certainly has the edge defensively, but Kevin Martin is one of the most efficient scorers in the NBA and would be a monster next to Paul. Horford > Bosh is certainly debatable. And it's completely unfair to compare Durant and Paul, because it's two different positions, but I would say they're fairly even.

tyfreaks brotha
07-26-2011, 05:23 PM
Very tough decision. But knowing Martin, Manu will have his way against him and I also think Horford is gonna make Haywood his *****. Espicially once he gets in foul trouble when Ian Mahinmi is gonna be matching up with Horford. The Thunder's bench give him the edge. Great job by Ebbs turning Around the Warriors though

VCaintdead17
07-26-2011, 05:32 PM
While I realize this is all opinion, this is just wrong...

Manu certainly has the edge defensively, but Kevin Martin is one of the most efficient scorers in the NBA and would be a monster next to Paul. Horford > Bosh is certainly debatable. And it's completely unfair to compare Durant and Paul, because it's two different positions, but I would say they're fairly even.

I think you fail to realize how efficient Manu is as well. He has a VERY comparable TS% and actually has a better eFG% than Martin. They have basically the same ORTG while Manu is flat out a better defender that him and a MUCH better passer as well. On top of that, he has a better TRB% as well.

And while Kmart might be efficient, he's one of the biggest black holes in the league.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=8827


While he is great at getting to line, posting a 18.9 foul %, he is nonetheless a poor passer.

Manu is better than Martin. No if ands or buts about it.

Ebbs
07-26-2011, 05:50 PM
I think what it comes down to is which big 3 would cause more damage, CP3,Martin and Bosh, or Manu, Durant and Horford. And for that I'd have to say,

Manu>Martin
Horford>Bosh
Durant<Paul

In regards to doing damage yo uare insane if you tink Horford is anywhere close to Bosh offensively there is no comparison there. Last year Horford set a career record in points with 15. Bosh has scored more than that every year since his sophmore season . . .


Durant wrecked Butler last year. And if Durant is a one-trick pony, what do you call Chris Bosh?

While Durant isn't a one trick pony Bosh is a more versatile scorer. Bosh scores in a larger variety of ways than Durant does. And I'm not saying Bosh is a better scorer just clarifying here.


Very tough decision. But knowing Martin, Manu will have his way against him and I also think Horford is gonna make Haywood his *****. Espicially once he gets in foul trouble when Ian Mahinmi is gonna be matching up with Horford. The Thunder's bench give him the edge. Great job by Ebbs turning Around the Warriors though

Not sure you really read the write ups. I don't see how Horford makes Haywood his ***** but ok. . .

KnicksorBust
07-26-2011, 05:53 PM
I think what it comes down to is which big 3 would cause more damage, CP3,Martin and Bosh, or Manu, Durant and Horford. And for that I'd have to say,

Manu>Martin
Horford>Bosh
Durant<Paul

Really? :cool:

I'll comment more later but these are two of the best writeups I've ever read (outside of my own). I'm going with Warriors in 7. Chris Paul would feast on Devin Harris and has finally weapons with Bosh and Martin. Neither of which is being guarded by elite defenders.

VCaintdead17
07-26-2011, 05:57 PM
In regards to doing damage yo uare insane if you tink Horford is anywhere close to Bosh offensively there is no comparison there. Last year Horford set a career record in points with 15. Bosh has scored more than that every year since his sophmore season . . .



While Durant isn't a one trick pony Bosh is a more versatile scorer. Bosh scores in a larger variety of ways than Durant does. And I'm not saying Bosh is a better scorer just clarifying here.



Not sure you really read the write ups. I don't see how Horford makes Haywood his ***** but ok. . .


I apoligize for not strictly fixating on the PPG stat. While Horford might not be the scorer that Bosh is, he is just as good if not better than Bosh in every other category. Rebounding wise, defensively, passing and efficiency. I think there's a part of you that knows this too but rather than acknowledge it you'd rather turn the focus to a stat such as PPG that doesn't tell the whole story.

MackSnackWrap
07-26-2011, 06:00 PM
damn this one is sooo close... Thunders depth is amazing. But i think warriors would take this in 7. Damnnnn. Chris and Chris combo would be ridiculous. Would love to see that combo and this series!

Corey
07-26-2011, 06:02 PM
Ill take Catty's bench to win the series in 7.

I love the Warriors starting lineup, but when you're rolling out Sheldon, Mahinmi and Nolan Smith as your primary backups, that's asking for trouble.

LakersA's49ers
07-26-2011, 06:03 PM
haha nice

Ebbs
07-26-2011, 06:08 PM
I apoligize for not strictly fixating on the PPG stat. While Horford might not be the scorer that Bosh is, he is just as good if not better than Bosh in every other category. Rebounding wise, defensively, passing and efficiency. I think there's a part of you that knows this too but rather than acknowledge it you'd rather turn the focus to a stat such as PPG that doesn't tell the whole story.

You specifically said damage I assumed that meant offense.

I don't know why this overly matter since I think I proved Haywood could handle Horford but for kicks.

Last postseason

PER: Horford 13.3, Bosh 18.5
TS%: Horf .458, Bosh .553
TRB%: Horf 14.9, Bosh 12.9
ORTG: Horf 100, Bosh 111
DRTG: Horf 104, Bosh 104
OWS: Horf 0.1, Bosh 1.6
DWS: Horf 0.6, Bosh 1.0
WS/48: Horf 0.07, Bosh 0.15
PPG: Horf 11.3, Bosh 18.6

Pretty clear

VCaintdead17
07-26-2011, 06:09 PM
Really? :cool:

Gee KOB, I'd hate for you to disregard the name value and actually do some research but if you compare their advanced stats, you could certainly make an argument that Horford is better than Bosh.

Horford has a lower USG% so he doesn't get the ball quite as often as Bosh to try and score, but when he does he's efficient. He has a higher TS%, eFG%,
TRB%, AST%, STL%, BLK%, WS, and WS/48 for this season. And guess what, he has better stats in all those categories as well career wise too!

Not as ludicrous as it sounds to compare them.

greg_ory_2005
07-26-2011, 06:12 PM
I'll take the Thunder. Just love their team and the bench is pretty good too.

VCaintdead17
07-26-2011, 06:16 PM
You specifically said damage I assumed that meant offense.

I don't know why this overly matter since I think I proved Haywood could handle Horford but for kicks.

Last postseason

PER: Horford 13.3, Bosh 18.5
TS%: Horf .458, Bosh .553
TRB%: Horf 14.9, Bosh 12.9
ORTG: Horf 100, Bosh 111
DRTG: Horf 104, Bosh 104
OWS: Horf 0.1, Bosh 1.6
DWS: Horf 0.6, Bosh 1.0
WS/48: Horf 0.07, Bosh 0.15
PPG: Horf 11.3, Bosh 18.6

Pretty clear

What a TERRIBLE way to make a comparison. Why would you compare their playoff performance as opposed to the regular season? What's a better way to show who CONSISTENTLY puts up better numbers: using stats for each player from 9-10 games or from 82? In the regular season Horford outperformed Bosh in nearly every category. Get that **** out of here.

KnicksorBust
07-26-2011, 06:25 PM
Gee KOB, I'd hate for you to disregard the name value and actually do some research but if you compare their advanced stats, you could certainly make an argument that Horford is better than Bosh.

Horford has a lower USG% so he doesn't get the ball quite as often as Bosh to try and score, but when he does he's efficient. He has a higher TS%, eFG%,
TRB%, AST%, STL%, BLK%, WS, and WS/48 for this season. And guess what, he has better stats in all those categories as well career wise too!

Not as ludicrous as it sounds to compare them.

Don't you think that has more to do with the fact that Horford has always been a 3rd option and less to do with the fact that he's better than Bosh? To use a ridiculous example, Tyson Chandler has a better TS% than Kobe but he's not a better scorer. Bosh has been an effecient scorer/rebounder even as a #1 option on a bad team. That holds a lot of value for me. I would give Horford the nod as the slightly better defender and passer but as an overall player I'm taking Bosh without much thought.

Ebbs
07-26-2011, 06:26 PM
What a TERRIBLE way to make a comparison. Why would you compare their playoff performance as opposed to the regular season? What's a better way to show who CONSISTENTLY puts up better numbers: using stats for each player from 9-10 games or from 82? In the regular season Horford outperformed Bosh in nearly every category. Get that **** out of here.

1) this is the playoffs were simulating

2) playoffs matters more than regular season

3) it is the most recent statistics we have from each player.

Catfish himself would not place Horford over Bosh not sure what you are even trying to prove.

VCaintdead17
07-26-2011, 06:29 PM
Don't you think that has more to do with the fact that Horford has always been a 3rd option and less to do with the fact that he's better than Bosh? To use a ridiculous example, Tyson Chandler has a better TS% than Kobe but he's not a better scorer. Bosh has been an effecient scorer/rebounder even as a #1 option on a bad team. That holds a lot of value for me. I would give Horford the nod as the slightly better defender and passer but as an overall player I'm taking Bosh without much thought.

Horford has never needed to be a #1 option. His career usage % is 17.5. You make him the number one option on a team and run plays for him, I'm sure he could net 20 a game.

ABOMB_56
07-26-2011, 06:32 PM
While Paul is great, I think that he would be doing too much in trying to compensate for K-Mart's lack of defense on the perimeter. Butler has lost a step or two, and I think that KD vs Butler is the biggest mismatch of the series. I think the Thunder win in 7 because there team is very balanced with a great inside scoring presence, and two extremely good wing players. Another point I would like to make is that Catty's PnR stats really pushed him to his side.
:clap: to both GM's for an amazing Mock though

VCaintdead17
07-26-2011, 06:34 PM
1) this is the playoffs were simulating

2) playoffs matters more than regular season

3) it is the most recent statistics we have from each player.

Catfish himself would not place Horford over Bosh not sure what you are even trying to prove.

I just don't think it's fair to measure two players like that. Horford had to go against Howard for six games, he's obviously going to play worse. But against the average team he performs just as well as Chris Bosh would. There's just no way you can deny that Horford isn't at least equal to Bosh.

Catfish1314
07-26-2011, 06:43 PM
While I realize this is all opinion, this is just wrong...

Manu certainly has the edge defensively, but Kevin Martin is one of the most efficient scorers in the NBA and would be a monster next to Paul. Horford > Bosh is certainly debatable. And it's completely unfair to compare Durant and Paul, because it's two different positions, but I would say they're fairly even.

I agree with this. Obviously I think my team wins this series, but I don't necessarily think that's what does it.


In regards to doing damage yo uare insane if you tink Horford is anywhere close to Bosh offensively there is no comparison there. Last year Horford set a career record in points with 15. Bosh has scored more than that every year since his sophmore season . . .

To be fair, Horford plays with two ball-dominant players in Joe Johnson and Josh Smith. They can both distribute but Wade and LeBron are two of the best playmakers/distributors in the NBA. On my team he's playing with Durant (doesn't always need the ball to be dangerous) and Manu (one of the most selfless wing players in the NBA).

Bosh is the better scorer, but the numbers in my write-up have already proven that Horford scored on a much more efficient level than Bosh last season.


While Durant isn't a one trick pony Bosh is a more versatile scorer. Bosh scores in a larger variety of ways than Durant does. And I'm not saying Bosh is a better scorer just clarifying here.

Not really. They both lean heavily on their jumpshots, Bosh has a more diverse face-up game (which he rarely uses), both players get to the line, and Durant does a lot of damage operating away from the ball (coming off screens, baseline cuts, etc.). To be honest, Durant is by far the better scorer because he's more effective when his jumpshot isn't falling. You can't say the same for Bosh.


Not sure you really read the write ups. I don't see how Horford makes Haywood his ***** but ok. . .

Because he's more handsome. Jesus ebbs...


Really? :cool:

I'll comment more later but these are two of the best writeups I've ever read (outside of my own). I'm going with Warriors in 7. Chris Paul would feast on Devin Harris and has finally weapons with Bosh and Martin. Neither of which is being guarded by elite defenders.


While Paul is great, I think that he would be doing too much in trying to compensate for K-Mart's lack of defense on the perimeter. Butler has lost a step or two, and I think that KD vs Butler is the biggest mismatch of the series. I think the Thunder win in 7 because there team is very balanced with a great inside scoring presence, and two extremely good wing players. Another point I would like to make is that Catty's PnR stats really pushed him to his side.
:clap: to both GM's for an amazing Mock though

Thank you both for taking the time to read my write-up.

KnicksorBust
07-26-2011, 06:59 PM
Horford has never needed to be a #1 option. His career usage % is 17.5. You make him the number one option on a team and run plays for him, I'm sure he could net 20 a game.

Bosh has a TS% of 57% for his career while scoring 19.5ppg and Horford has a TS% of 57.4% while scoring 13.7ppg. If you think Horford is going to score 7 more ppg while not losing any effeciency... then we'll just have to agree to disagree. You can't extrapolate statistics that way.

Bosh also has 7.1 FTA per game for his career and Horford has 2.9 FTA per game for his career. That's because Bosh actually has an offensive arsenal and can take players off the dribble.

KnicksorBust
07-26-2011, 07:02 PM
Thank you both for taking the time to read my write-up.

Always do buddy. I was waiting for you to bring up how good a defender Devin Harris was in the 2006 playoffs for the Mavericks. :) j/k. I couldn't help myself.

VCaintdead17
07-26-2011, 07:06 PM
Bosh has a TS% of 57% for his career while scoring 19.5ppg and Horford has a TS% of 57.4% while scoring 13.7ppg. If you think Horford is going to score 7 more ppg while not losing any effeciency... then we'll just have to agree to disagree. You can't extrapolate statistics that way.

Bosh also has 7.1 FTA per game for his career and Horford has 2.9 FTA per game for his career. That's because Bosh actually has an offensive arsenal and can take players off the dribble.

No, don't get me wrong man, Bosh is definitely better than Horford offensively, no doubt about that. But when it comes to an overall game Horford has one of the best for a big man, and can certainly contend with Bosh. I'm not saying it's a proven fact that Horford is hands down better than Bosh, because it's not, it's just my opinion. But to go and say that its insane to even consider Horford is better is a baseless argument because they are certainly comparable and are pretty much on the same level, I just give the slight edge to Horford.

RevisIsland
07-26-2011, 07:23 PM
Warriors but it was VERYYYYYY close.

AP=MVP
07-26-2011, 07:35 PM
Ebbs lack of depth and the fact that K-Mart has to guard Manu kills him.

I also think many people underestimate how good Harris would be for this OKC team.

Catfish1314
07-26-2011, 07:38 PM
Bosh has a TS% of 57% for his career while scoring 19.5ppg and Horford has a TS% of 57.4% while scoring 13.7ppg. If you think Horford is going to score 7 more ppg while not losing any effeciency... then we'll just have to agree to disagree. You can't extrapolate statistics that way.

Bosh also has 7.1 FTA per game for his career and Horford has 2.9 FTA per game for his career. That's because Bosh actually has an offensive arsenal and can take players off the dribble.

Bosh can take players off the dribble. That doesn't mean he does it as often as he should. He vastly improved his defense away from the ball last year, but he's also become more of a jump-shooter. And that didn't just start since he went to Miami.

And if you're implying Horford can't take players off the dribble, that's completely false. There's more than enough statistical evidence to support that he can. Or you could just go to YouTube and see for yourself.


Always do buddy. I was waiting for you to bring up how good a defender Devin Harris was in the 2006 playoffs for the Mavericks. :) j/k. I couldn't help myself.

Don't be a weener :)

lakersrock
07-26-2011, 08:18 PM
The Thunder are MUCH deeper, stronger under the basket and have three guys that can handle the ball starting.

This isn't even close honestly. Until I got to Chris Paul, I said it would be a sweep with a 20 PPG margain.

Brooklyn Mets
07-26-2011, 08:24 PM
Thunder

starting 5 is dope

Sixerlover
07-26-2011, 08:27 PM
While Devin Harris is definitely NOT the ideal starting PG, I like the Thunder over Golden State

Chacarron
07-26-2011, 10:25 PM
Since my team will face the winner, I don't want to vote for either team and influence the vote. It is a very evenly matched series in my opinion. Good luck to both teams.

MagicHero3
07-27-2011, 10:04 AM
i wanna know who on the thunder (besides durant) is gonna put up points? seriously? all starting 5 of the warriors have potential to put up big points, but i only see ONE guy on the thunder who can do it. im truly surprised at the outcome of this voting so far. and disappointed.

Sadds The Gr8
07-27-2011, 11:09 AM
i wanna know who on the thunder (besides durant) is gonna put up points? seriously? all starting 5 of the warriors have potential to put up big points, but i only see ONE guy on the thunder who can do it. im truly surprised at the outcome of this voting so far. and disappointed.

lolwut? Haywood can put up big points on the Warriors, and Horford, Manu, and Harris can't? ridiculous...Horford, Manu, and Harris are good for at least 15 a game each.

Lil Half Dead
07-27-2011, 11:30 AM
The Warriors couldn't sway me enough with their writeup. I gotta take OKC here. But goddamn this is so close. I wish we had a simulator for this series. I think Bosh would eat up Haslem/Landry, and Paul would outshine Harris, but outside of that I think it's advantage Thunder all the way around. The Thunder bench would absolutely rape the Warriors.

droalex
07-27-2011, 11:33 AM
Warriors with upset

heattiltheend94
07-27-2011, 11:55 AM
I think the chemistry of the Warriors is quie remarkable. Martin was one of the top players in 3's last year and CP3's basketball IQ combined with his 3 point shooting would be stellar. not to mention Bosh is vbery capable at hitting the midrange jumper

heattiltheend94
07-27-2011, 11:56 AM
i wanna know who on the thunder (besides durant) is gonna put up points? seriously? all starting 5 of the warriors have potential to put up big points, but i only see ONE guy on the thunder who can do it. im truly surprised at the outcome of this voting so far. and disappointed.

Manu? he averaged around 17 points a game

Ebbs
07-27-2011, 12:34 PM
The Warriors couldn't sway me enough with their writeup. I gotta take OKC here. But goddamn this is so close. I wish we had a simulator for this series. I think Bosh would eat up Haslem/Landry, and Paul would outshine Harris, but outside of that I think it's advantage Thunder all the way around. The Thunder bench would absolutely rape the Warriors.

Fair enough. But I thought my write up was pretty good lol. I think if nothing else people who read it should respect Bosh and Haywood a little more.

roshan3ai
07-27-2011, 12:39 PM
23-27 now?

Ebbs
07-27-2011, 12:47 PM
Not sure what the true count is to be honest.

RocketsRule
07-27-2011, 01:56 PM
By my count it's 28-24 us, but I did it fairly quickly so I may have missed a couple.

SugeKnight
07-27-2011, 02:26 PM
Tough matchup. Thunder in 7 cos they actually have a good bench

Catfish1314
07-27-2011, 04:22 PM
My final count was 31-25. I don't know how accurate that is.

Anyway, great job ebbs as usual.

See you in the NBA ReDraft :)