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Mile High Champ
07-26-2011, 10:27 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last three years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 2 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

1) Dirk Nowitzki
2) Amare Stoudemire
3) Pau Gasol
4) Zach Randolph
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)





2010 Off-Season PF Rankings

1) Pau Gasol
2) Dirk Nowitzki
3) Tim Duncan
4) Chris Bosh
5) Amare Stoudemire
6) Carlos Boozer
7) Kevin Garnett
8) Josh Smith
9) David Lee
10) Zach Randolph

2009 Off-Season PF Rankings

1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garnett
3) Dirk Nowitzki
4) Chris Bosh
5) Amare Stoudemire
6) Pau Gasol
7) Carlos Boozer
8) Antawn Jamison
9) Rashard Lewis
10) David West

2008 Off-Season PF rankings

1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garnett
3) Amare Stoudemire
4) Chris Bosh
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Elton Brand
7) Carlos Boozer
8) Pau Gasol
9) Antawn Jamison
10) David West

Mile High Champ
07-26-2011, 10:29 AM
Poll is up!

GoPacers33
07-26-2011, 10:30 AM
Josh Smith

Swashcuff
07-26-2011, 10:36 AM
Josh Smith

Care to explain why?

Sly Guy
07-26-2011, 10:37 AM
I went with chris bosh even with all the hate he gets here. He's still a weapon and a very complete player. Playing in Wade or LBJ's shadow or not, he can still do the routine 25-10 nights if needed and I'm not sure Love or anyone else on that list can say the same.


the 2-4 rankings are interesting too. I'd almost put all 3 as 2 A),B),C), but to me it just serves as a statement that there are more NYK fans than LAL fans than MEM fans.

alencp3
07-26-2011, 10:41 AM
how can people vote for love over griffin ?

DR_1
07-26-2011, 10:41 AM
The double-double machine known as Kevin Love.

Sportfan
07-26-2011, 10:41 AM
KG...best PF defender, and still has that great mid range shot.

Swashcuff
07-26-2011, 10:47 AM
how can people vote for love over griffin ?

Because he was better last season? Is that not a good enough reason?

Sadds The Gr8
07-26-2011, 10:48 AM
Love & Basketball

Hawkeye15
07-26-2011, 10:48 AM
I can't believe ZBo went that high...

I am changing my vote to Love from here on out. 20-15-80-40 has never been seen, and he brought up records not seen since before many of you were born.

Hawkeye15
07-26-2011, 10:49 AM
Because he was better last season? Is that not a good enough reason?

because Griffin dunks cooler

Griffin will most likely be a better player than Love in their primes, but Love is a bit more advanced at this point.

NYKnickFanatic
07-26-2011, 10:50 AM
I can't believe ZBo went that high...

I am changing my vote to Love from here on out. 20-15-80-40 has never been seen, and he brought up records not seen since before many of you were born.

He's a monster. I cant believe Amare went #2.

Swashcuff
07-26-2011, 10:50 AM
because Griffin dunks cooler

Griffin will most likely be a better player than Love in their primes, but Love is a bit more advanced at this point.

I think Blake has top 3 potential in his future Love more of a top 10 type player but based on their play of last season Love was indeed the better player.

Mile High Champ
07-26-2011, 11:01 AM
I went with Love last time but the more and more I think about it, I have to go with Bosh here. Love will be number 6.

theheatles
07-26-2011, 11:08 AM
last poll had multi accounts...is the miami heat player going to get the same treatment like the knick player did???

Sadds The Gr8
07-26-2011, 11:09 AM
last poll had multi accounts...is the miami heat player going to get the same treatment like the knick player did???

no it didnt.

theheatles
07-26-2011, 11:11 AM
i cliked on 5 names that voted for zbo i didnt recognize and 2 had 0 posts and another 1 was a recruit with a couple posts...

Sadds The Gr8
07-26-2011, 11:11 AM
i cliked on 5 names that voted for zbo i didnt recognize and 2 had 0 posts and another 1 was a recruit with a couple posts...

Stebo said there was no dupes.

theheatles
07-26-2011, 11:15 AM
and how the voting went was suspicious of dupe accounts with how it was neck neck the whole time with bosh as a favorite and then randolph gets like 15 consecutive votes to pass bosh comfortably

Hustlenomics
07-26-2011, 11:20 AM
KG when healthy is better than everyone left because he plays shut down D and has good offense.

Mishmin
07-26-2011, 11:22 AM
I like Aldridge. If I'm picking one player for a series starting today, he would be the best to me. As a celtic, I wish I could still punch in KG.

NYKnickFanatic
07-26-2011, 11:34 AM
and how the voting went was suspicious of dupe accounts with how it was neck neck the whole time with bosh as a favorite and then randolph gets like 15 consecutive votes to pass bosh comfortably

So I guess someone really has no life and made 15 accounts. :rolleyes: Build a bridge and get over it.

THE GIPPER
07-26-2011, 11:43 AM
I can't believe ZBo went that high...

I am changing my vote to Love from here on out. 20-15-80-40 has never been seen, and he brought up records not seen since before many of you were born.

Care to explain how Love became better than Bosh overnight?

edit: by the way you voted for blake. dont know if that was an accident or not.

pebloemer
07-26-2011, 11:44 AM
I like Aldridge. If I'm picking one player for a series starting today, he would be the best to me. As a celtic, I wish I could still punch in KG.

Aldridge has been getting lost in the shuffle a bit. Definitely deserves consideration.

alencp3
07-26-2011, 11:44 AM
Because he was better last season? Is that not a good enough reason?

better at what ? rebounding on a team not interested to get a rebound? shooting? ok ill give u that? what else?

J-Relo
07-26-2011, 11:48 AM
Bosh. Then Love.

Hawkeye15
07-26-2011, 11:49 AM
Care to explain how Love became better than Bosh overnight?

edit: by the way you voted for blake. dont know if that was an accident or not.

I basically did in the last thread. Bosh should have already gone, but didn't. If homer is winning these polls, I am jumping on the bandwagon at this point. The difference is minimal regardless, and I can't by all conciousness let Love fall out of the top 5 if possible.

Yes, that was an accident.

Swashcuff
07-26-2011, 11:59 AM
better at what ? rebounding on a team not interested to get a rebound? shooting? ok ill give u that? what else?

More efficient scorer doing so playing independent of the system on a extremely low usage and capable of making shots anywhere in the floor. It can be argued that had he actually had plays ran for him he would be Blakes equal in terms of per game offensive production.

Love is a far more efficient scorer and impacts his team more on offense than Blake despite scoring less and having less assists. This is evident by Love's superior, ORtg, TS%, eFG%, OWS and OSPM.

You however have a crush on Blake and think he's a top 5 player in the league already so you're not going to use any logic when it comes to this discussion.

Avenged
07-26-2011, 12:09 PM
Love again.

20 and 15 on an efficient game. Leads Bosh, Aldridge, and Griffin in WS, WS/48, and PER.

edit: surprisingly enough he also shoots 41% from the 3 point mark.

Hustlenomics
07-26-2011, 12:28 PM
Love again.

20 and 15 on an efficient game. Leads Bosh, Aldridge, and Griffin in WS, WS/48, and PER.

edit: surprisingly enough he also shoots 41% from the 3 point mark.

he doesn't even win games...

Swashcuff
07-26-2011, 12:39 PM
he doesn't even win games...

Neither did A.I. from 03-07. Didn't change the fact that he was an amazing player. Neither did Peirce before KG and Allen came, neither was the Timberwolves in KGs final days.

That doesn't go to say that they all weren't top 5 at their position, because they were all top 5 at their positions is WS and WS/48.

Winning games is a TEAM accomplishment. Not Individual.

Hustlenomics
07-26-2011, 12:43 PM
Neither did A.I. from 03-07. Didn't change the fact that he was an amazing player. Neither did Peirce before KG and Allen came, neither was the Timberwolves in KGs final days.

That doesn't go to say that they all weren't top 5 at their position, because they were all top 5 at their positions is WS and WS/48.

Winning games is a TEAM accomplishment. Not Individual.

Ai led his teams to the playoffs. Pierce made the conference finals before..they didn't have 20 win seasons

SteBO
07-26-2011, 12:44 PM
Z-Bo should not have went that high and now I'm torn between Bosh and Love. Both of those guys are interchangable imo. As much as i want to say Bosh here, I can't ignore 20 & 15. Also, can we stop factoring the amount of wins his team got please? It's not Love's fault the team around him sucks (sorry Hawkeye). I'll definitely go Bosh next time though. I'm not going to consider Griffin until he develops an offensive game outside of dunking and defends.

PS: Yes, Bosh over Griffin and Aldridge

Lil Half Dead
07-26-2011, 12:56 PM
Randolph got overrated in that last poll, He shouldn't be #4. That was were Bosh belonged, but seeing as how it's too late now, I guess I'll go with Bosh by default for this 5th spot.

Swashcuff
07-26-2011, 01:03 PM
Ai led his teams to the playoffs. Pierce made the conference finals before..they didn't have 20 win seasons

A.I. also had good support (by no means championship calibre but a 6MOY, DPOY and COY really helps) in a proven system under an all time great coach.

Pierce had Al Jefferson, Kendrick Perkins, Rajon Rondo and Delonte West and only managed 24 wins in the EAST (to spell it out in laments terms for you the easier conference top to bottom), with an even better head coach.

What does Kevin Love have? Luke Ridnour? Good grief.

Since you wanna play hardball I'll 1 up you again.

In 87-88 a Chris Mullin (you may recognize him from the original Dream Team) in his 3rd season (same as Love but 2 years older) lead a GSW team to 20 wins.

In 90-91 an Orlando Woodridge/Michael Adams (last player to go 25-10 assists in a season) lead Denver team only managed to win 20 games.

In 93-94 Joe Dumars (NBA HOFer) lead Pistons team with Isiah in the twilight of his career won only 20 games.

Again I can go on with this for quite some time.

Moral of the post is no matter who's the leader it takes a team to win games not a single star player. Oh and If you want a team that won less than 17 games look no further than a Dwyane Wade (oft injured but his team many to go only 10-41 in the games in which he did play a worst winning% than the Wolves in games in which Kevin Love played) lead Miami Heat team in 07-08 or an the Elton Brand lead Bulls teams of the early 00s.

Chronz
07-26-2011, 01:24 PM
Ai led his teams to the playoffs. Pierce made the conference finals before..they didn't have 20 win seasons

Yea they went from leading teams to the playoffs (in AI's case to the Finals) to not making the playoffs at all. This despite them actually IMPROVING as players, care to guess why their teams sucked. Heres a hint, it wasnt because AI, Pierce got worse, its because their cast did.

Hustlenomics
07-26-2011, 01:38 PM
A.I. also had good support (by no means championship calibre but a 6MOY, DPOY and COY really helps) in a proven system under an all time great coach.

Pierce had Al Jefferson, Kendrick Perkins, Rajon Rondo and Delonte West and only managed 24 wins in the EAST (to spell it out in laments terms for you the easier conference top to bottom), with an even better head coach.

What does Kevin Love have? Luke Ridnour? Good grief.

Since you wanna play hardball I'll 1 up you again.

In 87-88 a Chris Mullin (you may recognize him from the original Dream Team) in his 3rd season (same as Love but 2 years older) lead a GSW team to 20 wins.

In 90-91 an Orlando Woodridge/Michael Adams (last player to go 25-10 assists in a season) lead Denver team only managed to win 20 games.

In 93-94 Joe Dumars (NBA HOFer) lead Pistons team with Isiah in the twilight of his career won only 20 games.

Again I can go on with this for quite some time.

Moral of the post is no matter who's the leader it takes a team to win games not a single star player. Oh and If you want a team that won less than 17 games look no further than a Dwyane Wade (oft injured but his team many to go only 10-41 in the games in which he did play a worst winning% than the Wolves in games in which Kevin Love played) lead Miami Heat team in 07-08 or an the Elton Brand lead Bulls teams of the early 00s.

Pierce played 40 something games that year, lol @ perkins, Rondo barely played, delonte being the starter isn't getting a team anywhere..terrible year
ok i'll give Love a pass but if he has a bad record again this season there's no excuses for him especially with the hype he's been getting

Swashcuff
07-26-2011, 01:46 PM
Pierce played 40 something games that year, lol @ perkins, Rondo barely played, delonte being the starter isn't getting a team anywhere..terrible year
ok i'll give Love a pass but if he has a bad record again this season there's no excuses for him especially with the hype he's been getting

You neglected to mention Al Jefferson.

None of what I just said made any sense to you?

Kevin Love cannot have a bad record, this isn't boxing... this is NBA (the best of the best) Basketball a TEAM sport. Kevin Love can only lead his team to more wins if his teammates start living up to their potential and playing hard/correct.

theheatles
07-26-2011, 01:46 PM
1. Dirk
2. Lamarcus
3. Bosh
4. Amare
5. Gasol
6a. Love
6b. Randolph
8. Garnett
9. Blake
10. Luis Scola

29$JerZ
07-26-2011, 01:49 PM
Its a tie between LA and Love for me
Can anyone give me a good case for either?

claffyT
07-26-2011, 01:51 PM
5. Love
6. Griffin
7. Aldrigde
8. Garnett
9. Smith
10. Boozer

Brooklyn Mets
07-26-2011, 01:52 PM
La

Hustlenomics
07-26-2011, 01:55 PM
You neglected to mention Al Jefferson.

None of what I just said made any sense to you?

Kevin Love cannot have a bad record, this isn't boxing... this is NBA (the best of the best) Basketball a TEAM sport. Kevin Love can only lead his team to more wins if his teammates start living up to their potential and playing hard/correct.

Al Jefferson isn't a star player to me and I'm glad the Celtics traded him for a championship.
I understand what you're saying but if he can be praised he can be criticized too.

nimzboy
07-26-2011, 01:58 PM
This league has way too many good pf's and pg's.

mjm07
07-26-2011, 01:59 PM
1. Dirk
2. Lamarcus
3. Bosh
4. Amare
5. Gasol
6a. Love
6b. Randolph
8. Garnett
9. Blake
10. Luis Scola

This.

CHANGO
07-26-2011, 02:03 PM
People have short memory.

Swashcuff
07-26-2011, 02:04 PM
Al Jefferson isn't a star player to me and I'm glad the Celtics traded him for a championship.
I understand what you're saying but if he can be praised he can be criticized too.

I agree because IMO opinion if Kevin Love was a better defensive player his team could have won a couple more games, well at least theoretically since opposing PFs scored the 3rd most amt of points against the Wolves last season. Had Love been a better defensive player maybe that number wouldn't be so drastic and that may have resulted in more Wins. Also being a PF means you can hold the paint down defensively (eg KG) and disrupt opposing wings/perimeter players and even Cs. You would expect if Kevin Love had a great impact defensively his team would win maybe a couple more games.

I'm just saying that there is only so much one man can do. You NEED a solid team. Despite all this I still have Love here because of the fact that he's produced better on offense than anyone left on the poll and is the most efficient. Other than KG and Bosh there really isn't a huge gap defensively between Love and others getting consideration here.

CHANGO
07-26-2011, 02:05 PM
1. Dirk
2. Pau Gasol
3. Bosh
4. Amare
5. Love
6. Randolph
7. LaMarcus
8. Garnett
9. Blake
10. Boozer

beasted86
07-26-2011, 02:10 PM
I can't believe ZBo went that high...

I am changing my vote to Love from here on out. 20-15-80-40 has never been seen, and he brought up records not seen since before many of you were born.

Where did his team finish in the standings?
What?! Below the Cavs that lost 26 in a row? That's impossible...

Sorry, this is the supreme example of overrated stats. The only thing impressive is the rebounding numbers. Everything else, especially his scoring are useless empty stats.

BlitzBlud4
07-26-2011, 02:11 PM
5. Love
6. Griffin
7. Aldrigde
8. Garnett
9. Smith
10. Boozer

Good list

BlitzBlud4
07-26-2011, 02:13 PM
Im a little suprised Bosh is winning by so much. A lot of Bosh/Heat fans out there IMO

Swashcuff
07-26-2011, 02:15 PM
Where did his team finish in the standings?
What?! Below the Cavs that lost 26 in a row? That's impossible...

Sorry, this is the supreme example of overrated stats. The only thing impressive is the rebounding numbers. Everything else, especially his scoring are useless empty stats.

Where did the Heat finish in 07-08 in the easier Eastern Conference?

They were 10-51 when Dwyane Wade played and even worst winning % than the Wolves with Kevin Love in the line-up. I think he also put up useless stats then the only thing impressive was his scoring everything else useless stats. :pity:

RevisIsland
07-26-2011, 02:17 PM
I went with Love, I love (pun intended) his versatility and he's one of the best rebounders in basketball (if not the best).

SugeKnight
07-26-2011, 02:22 PM
Chris Bosh here.

Im not buying the love hype. Hes a good shooter and a good rebounder but he has no lateral quickness, hes an open door defensively and he doesnt have a knack for scoring. Add that to the fact that he rarely puts the team on his back (offensively, defensively, or emotionally) on either side of the ball, i just cannot vote for him yet.

It will be a shame if love gets voted before a guy like KG who is a lockdown defender, and a paint presence who also has the ability to motivate his teamates.

Love is a great rebounder on a team that doesnt make shots or have any other rebounders.

mightybosstone
07-26-2011, 02:25 PM
I can't believe Randolph went over Bosh. Clearly the average mindless NBA fan pays more attention to a single postseason than an antire career worth of work.

SugeKnight
07-26-2011, 02:28 PM
Where did the Heat finish in 07-08 in the easier Eastern Conference?

They were 10-51 when Dwyane Wade played and even worst winning % than the Wolves with Kevin Love in the line-up. I think he also put up useless stats then the only thing impressive was his scoring everything else useless stats. :pity:

Why bring up wade? he was injured that year first of all. Secondly, he took a huge drop in popularity from that season.

Swashcuff
07-26-2011, 02:30 PM
Why bring up wade? he was injured that year first of all. Secondly, he took a huge drop in popularity from that season.

I included the games in which he play and ignore those that he didn't. Kevin Love also played injured last season.

I brought up Wade because of the ignorance of fans who say Love puts up empty stats without even having an understanding of the statistics.

What does a drop in popularity have to do with anything he was still voted an ASG starter regardless.

Chacarron
07-26-2011, 02:31 PM
Chris Bosh here.

Ill21
07-26-2011, 02:39 PM
Kevin Love. Guy is a double-double machine

THE GIPPER
07-26-2011, 02:45 PM
I basically did in the last thread. Bosh should have already gone, but didn't. If homer is winning these polls, I am jumping on the bandwagon at this point. The difference is minimal regardless, and I can't by all conciousness let Love fall out of the top 5 if possible.

Yes, that was an accident.

Understood

alencp3
07-26-2011, 03:07 PM
so according to PSD a guy who averages 22.5/12/4 on 50+% fg leading his ****** team ( who played without the 2nd best player on the team for almost 30 games) to 32 wins isnt even top 8 in his position


ok cool ill keep that in mind

Chronz
07-26-2011, 03:10 PM
so according to PSD a guy who averages 22.5/12/4 on 50+% fg leading his ****** team ( who played without the 2nd best player on the team for almost 30 games) to 32 wins isnt even top 8 in his position


ok cool ill keep that in mind

Who are you talking about?

Bruno
07-26-2011, 03:19 PM
I took Love again; those numbers are too good. I don't penalize him personally for his team not making the playoffs (although if they had and he had a poor post-season performance below his regular season figures, I'd probably be voting for Bosh, or Blake, or LA).

Chronz
07-26-2011, 03:27 PM
Like everyone else, I feel KG is still the best player for a playoff run (or was at least last year) but Bosh is the better player due to durability.

alencp3
07-26-2011, 03:40 PM
Who are you talking about?

blake griffin

jimm120
07-26-2011, 03:41 PM
He's a monster. I cant believe Amare went #2.

Dude, how can people say that?

The guy averaged 25 ppg and 9 reb, to go along with 2 blocks a game. Oh, he also shot around 50% with most of his shots being 16/18 footers.

Plus, he was a top 2 choice MVP for the first 2 1/2 months.

And you say he's undeserving?

pebloemer
07-26-2011, 03:51 PM
so according to PSD a guy who averages 22.5/12/4 on 50+% fg leading his ****** team ( who played without the 2nd best player on the team for almost 30 games) to 32 wins isnt even top 8 in his position

ok cool ill keep that in mind

It is a very deep and strong position. There are just better candidates for most people. If you think about it, one of Garnett, Boozer and Smith will be out of the Top 10 for their position. To me your comment says more about the position than the player in question.

Cano4prez
07-26-2011, 04:05 PM
Lol @ Zbo going ahead of Bosh, lol at everyone overrating the hell out of Love

dwadefan03
07-26-2011, 04:07 PM
Its got to be bosh here

SteBO
07-26-2011, 04:11 PM
Lol @ Zbo going ahead of Bosh, lol at everyone overrating the hell out of Love
I'll give you that Randolph was overrated in that last poll, but who's overrating Love here? You mean to tell me that Love isn't deserving of #5, after the godly numbers he put up? 21 and 15 dude. That's something that hasn't done for a while.

Don't even think about bringing his team record. It's not that relevant.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-26-2011, 04:18 PM
Kevin Love. You can't look past a 22-15 player in the top 5 NBA PF's. Definitely the most underrated player in basketball.

Cano4prez
07-26-2011, 04:21 PM
He can't create his own shot, he can't play defense, and he isn't a good leader. I'll go with Love at 7

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-26-2011, 04:22 PM
how can people vote for love over griffin ?

Because Love does more than flashy dunks. ESPN has brainwashed you. Griffin has became a bit overrated IMO.

gaughan333
07-26-2011, 04:25 PM
How does boozer keep getting votes in these things haha

alencp3
07-26-2011, 04:42 PM
Because Love does more than flashy dunks. ESPN has brainwashed you. Griffin has became a bit overrated IMO.

i dont even visit espn but i do watch every griffin game, and no its not only flashy dunks. thats just idiotic, ban worthy

IversonIsKrazy
07-26-2011, 06:05 PM
Aldridge. Dude was a beast in the year 2011 (jan-may).

greg_ory_2005
07-26-2011, 06:07 PM
Gotta go with Bosh.

MackSnackWrap
07-26-2011, 06:08 PM
Damnnn... Bosh is so loww.. Gettin alotta heat for joining em. In all honesty he should be at 3. his defense got vastly better. He grew as a player. And he silenced critics in every series of the playoffs. People gotta stop sipping the haterade juice. 19 nd 8 from 3rd option on limited touches is impressive to say the least. Amare is to high and so is Z-BO although i think hes an outstanding PF from what he did in the playoffs. Still not touching him.
1) Dirk
2) Pau ( although he had a horrible playoffs and Bosh scoooooled em both times this year still dominant in reg season)
3)Chris Bosh

D-Will4Prez
07-26-2011, 07:14 PM
Gimme some Love.

pebloemer
07-26-2011, 07:24 PM
i dont even visit espn but i do watch every griffin game, and no its not only flashy dunks. thats just idiotic, ban worthy

Agreed on that one. Griffin is an excellent player. Not just an excellent jumper.

naps
07-26-2011, 07:26 PM
Bosh is a top 3 power forward. PSD hates Miami Heat and thus he's dropped to #5.

Kashmir13579
07-26-2011, 07:51 PM
I've been voting for Love since the #2 spot.

LTBaByyy
07-26-2011, 08:34 PM
Love.

The most underrated player in the NBA, in my opinion.

And that's even him being a replacement All Star, still underrated for what he does

Could end up being the best rebounder in NBA history and also good at so many other things

Raph12
07-26-2011, 09:04 PM
Love, Aldridge & Blake are all better than Bosh

The_Jamal
07-26-2011, 09:07 PM
Bosh is so underrated its really sickening. He's a top 3 PF with an argument for top 2. Love is no doubt a great offensive player, but needs to learn how to play D.

still1ballin
07-26-2011, 09:26 PM
Lamar Odom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hawkeye15
07-26-2011, 09:31 PM
i dont even visit espn but i do watch every griffin game, and no its not only flashy dunks. thats just idiotic, ban worthy

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=griffbl01&y1=2011&p2=loveke01&y2=2011

Let me start by saying, I think there is a 85% chance Blake ends up with the better prime/peak.

Now, Love outplayed Griffin last year. Period. The only two things Griffin did better was distribute in the half court, and work in the post. Love was a better rebounder, efficient scorer, stretched the floor, used minimal possessions to get his 20+, and simply completely dominated a facet of the game.

Love was better last year. Period. If you don't agree, make a case for it. I watched plenty of Griffin, and tons of Love. My eye test repeats what the stats say.

Knicks21
07-26-2011, 10:07 PM
Love

BlitzBlud4
07-26-2011, 10:45 PM
Bosh is so underrated its really sickening. He's a top 3 PF with an argument for top 2. Love is no doubt a great offensive player, but needs to learn how to play D.

I dont see how he's being underrated at all. A lot of people are giving his credit. I don't see him as a top 3 pf, and no leit argument convincing me he's a top 2 pf. If anything, he's being slightly overrated. He didn't have a better individual season than Love, Aldrige or Griffin, but since he's on the Heat, he gets love. I also dont get how people are saying "him putting up 19/8 as the 3rd option is very impressive". It's good but people are overexagerating a tad bit. Besides LeBron, Wade and Bosh, the Heat didn't have another consistent scorer. No one else averaged 10+ ppg (the next highest scorer was Haslem at 8ppg in only 13 games). The amount of shot attempts and minutes played for Bosh, it really isn't all that impressive that he's able to put up 19/8. If anything he should have shot a higher field percentage possibly giving him another point or two. Im sure, if Love, Aldridge, Griffin or even Amar'e were replaced by Bosh, they'd also be putting up the same stats (probably even better stats), and with improved defence.

Not saying that Bosh is a bad player but he's slightly getting overrated. I also find it odd how for when other players have gotten ranked, there were legit statistical arguments and debates were more stat approached, yet for Bosh's case, its because "him being impressive as the 3rd option and his "Heat" making the Finals". Lot of double standars in these logics IMO

Catfish1314
07-26-2011, 11:07 PM
Love, Aldridge & Blake are all better than Bosh

Based on what?

Gators123
07-26-2011, 11:08 PM
Is it possible that Boozer wont be in the top 10?

Sadds The Gr8
07-26-2011, 11:09 PM
Love, Aldridge & Blake are all better than Rupaul

agreed

Catfish1314
07-26-2011, 11:10 PM
Is it possible that Boozer wont be in the top 10?

I would have him at 10th right now, but it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't make it. Nobody likes him now after the postseason he just had.

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010957
07-26-2011, 11:13 PM
Out of all the top 10 player ratings in position PSD has put up, this is a joke.
I can't beleive my eyes when i see Chris Bosh has got the lead here. I'll admit that last year he was considered a top 5 power foward, but he was on a s### team, didn't really win any games, but his stats were good. Now everyone has finally got to see what chris bosh is really like when he's on a winning team, and from what i saw this year (I watched every game on NBAtv), he doesn't contribute alot on a winning team. I know Lebron and Wade love to dominate the ball, but when bosh has the ball, ... its just weak man.

And yes ZBO deserves tob e there, i know people out there who don't 'really' know the nba will disagree with him being top 3 PF, but if you saw him in the playoffs you'd agree he was probably one of the best 'players' playing in the post season. Lamarcus abridge is my vote, because he was actually a scary player with the ball, as apposed to Chris bosh. Stop voting for the players Name instead their Game. (sooo corny)

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JasonJohnHorn
07-27-2011, 12:22 AM
how can people vote for love over griffin ?

better rebounder, better 3PT shooter, better FT shooter.
Blake is a better passer. As for defence, I havent seen enough of both in a tough series to make a call one way or the other.

I went with Love, the Blake is right there. I'd pick both over Bosh. I'm still shaking my head over Z-Bo getting ahead of Love and Blake. But it is a close call.

Chronz
07-27-2011, 01:05 AM
blake griffin

Lol oh I had no idea you were talking about my teams franchise player. Bosh is better, in the same role blake was in, he out did him.

naps
07-27-2011, 01:07 AM
agreed

You have been agreeing on anything > Bosh ever since Bosh left Toronto, right?

beasted86
07-27-2011, 01:44 AM
Where did the Heat finish in 07-08 in the easier Eastern Conference?

They were 10-51 when Dwyane Wade played and even worst winning % than the Wolves with Kevin Love in the line-up. I think he also put up useless stats then the only thing impressive was his scoring everything else useless stats. :pity:

Everyone on the team was injured. Shaq & Wade to start the year, Udonis Haslem, Dorrel Wright, and Jason Williams.

Admittedly the Marion injury was "shutting it down", but the rest were legit. Last I checked everyone on the Wolves was pretty much healthy all year, and their ceiling was a lottery team regardless. If the 07-08 Heat team was healthy, they were for sure a playoff team.

Aside from explaining that to you... OF COURSE Wade's 07-08 stats are useless empty stats. Nobody talks about or cares what he averaged that year. Although he had career lows due to injury, if he had career highs they would be diminished the same way.

Swashcuff
07-27-2011, 01:57 AM
Everyone on the team was injured. Shaq & Wade to start the year, Udonis Haslem, Dorrel Wright, and Jason Williams.

Admittedly the Marion injury was "shutting it down", but the rest were legit. Last I checked everyone on the Wolves was pretty much healthy all year, and their ceiling was a lottery team regardless. If the 07-08 Heat team was healthy, they were for sure a playoff team.

Aside from explaining that to you... OF COURSE Wade's 07-08 stats are useless empty stats. Nobody talks about or cares what he averaged that year. Although he had career lows due to injury, if he had career highs they would be diminished the same way.

Ok so by your logic then all players on teams with losing records put up useless stats and are bad players because of it but when they start winning they put up stats with substance and those stats gain substance.

Utter rubbish. How's about we just consider players from the teams with winning records for these polls then because anyone else is useless and didn't do anything right.

You guys just keep getting more and more ignorant with time.

mightybosstone
07-27-2011, 02:08 AM
Is it possible that Boozer wont be in the top 10?

That would be awesome! Then again, I hate Carlos Boozer, so I suppose I'm biased...

ABOMB_56
07-27-2011, 02:10 AM
Bosh still on the board is a disgrace and reflects on the hate that Heat players get.

Chacarron
07-27-2011, 02:16 AM
Bosh still on the board is a disgrace and reflects on the hate that Heat players get.

Very true.

beasted86
07-27-2011, 02:22 AM
Love, Aldridge & Blake are all better than Bosh

So if you put one of those guys on the Raptors, they would make the playoffs?

THE GIPPER
07-27-2011, 02:25 AM
You have been agreeing on anything > Bosh ever since Bosh left Toronto, right?

this

beasted86
07-27-2011, 02:28 AM
Ok so by your logic then all players on teams with losing records put up useless stats and are bad players because of it but when they start winning they put up stats with substance and those stats gain substance.

Utter rubbish. How's about we just consider players from the teams with winning records for these polls then because anyone else is useless and didn't do anything right.

You guys just keep getting more and more ignorant with time.

They aren't bad players, but the impact of their stats are diminished especially when they happen to be on a bottom 2-3 team in the NBA. Stats are only relevant to players on winning teams, and how successful their teams are along with those stats.

If Wade had career highs in 07-08, they wouldn't have been looked upon very highly because his team missed the playoffs and were one of the worst teams. Even in 08-09 when Wade did indeed have career highs and his team did make the playoffs.... his stats were still somewhat diminished because his team only finished 5th seeded, and got knocked out in the first round. That's the clear reason he wasn't an MVP favored player. Although the stats are empty Wade didn't suddenly become garbage in 07-08, but the fact remains because of his team's record the value of whatever statline he had gets diminished somewhat. Love isn't a garbage player even though his stats mostly in vain, its just that they get diminished because his team finished dead last and most of the impact players were healthy for most the year.

This has always been the rule of thumb. I don't know why people want to change things when the circumstances suit them for a player they like.

beasted86
07-27-2011, 02:35 AM
To make things clearer, Love is not a bad PF, I think he could actually be in the top 5... but because of his team's records thus far the 3 years he's been in the NBA, he hasn't gotten a chance to prove it.

You CANNOT prove you are a top 5 player at your position finishing with the worst record. Sorry... that's not how it's worked in the past, nor how it works now.

Sadds The Gr8
07-27-2011, 02:36 AM
You have been agreeing on anything > Bosh ever since Bosh left Toronto, right?

yup.

Swashcuff
07-27-2011, 10:36 AM
To make things clearer, Love is not a bad PF, I think he could actually be in the top 5... but because of his team's records thus far the 3 years he's been in the NBA, he hasn't gotten a chance to prove it.

You CANNOT prove you are a top 5 player at your position finishing with the worst record. Sorry... that's not how it's worked in the past, nor how it works now.

So you mean to tell me that Dwyane Wade was not a top 5 SG because of his team's record? That's what you're trying to say.

Tell me something, give some examples of the past because IMO that is the most ignorant statement I've read in this thread with absolutely no evidence to back your claim.

If you wanna go past lets go past.

Tell me was Neil Johnston a top 5 C in the early 50s? Because his Philly Warriors had the worst record in the league in the 52-53 season the season in which he won the 1st of his 3 scoring titles.

What about Bob McAdoo was he a top 5 C when his Pistons finished with the worst record in the league despite having Bob Lanier and John Long on the team for various points in the season?

Were Gail Goodrich and Dick Van Arsdale (debatable) not top 5 players at their positions (PG and SG) in 69 when their Phoenix Suns finished with the worst record in the league?

In 00-01 Antawn Jamison finished #1 among all PFs in scoring a case could be made that offensively he was a top 5 PF.

In 02-03 Zyrundas Illgauskas was 2nd among all Cs in scoring a strong case could be made that he was a top 5 C.

Do you want more examples?

On all these bad teams no one was able to put up 20-15-80-40 NONE.

Kevin Love plays at arguably the deepest position in the league against the best competition in the world, what he was able to accomplish last season is astronomical and for someone to say something as ignorant as his team didn't win much so he shouldn't be top 5 really proves your lack of knowledge for the history of the game.

Swashcuff
07-27-2011, 10:52 AM
They aren't bad players, but the impact of their stats are diminished especially when they happen to be on a bottom 2-3 team in the NBA. Stats are only relevant to players on winning teams, and how successful their teams are along with those stats.

The impact of their stats? What stats are you watching? What stats are you paying attention to? Did you watch these players play? Or are you just basing your logic on stats revelant to team success and basing your entire argument that those stats didn't translate into wins.

Do you not ask yourself had those players not put up said #s where exactly their would be? Or you just look at the numbers and record and say they had no impact.

This man just said stats are only relevent to players on winning teams? So why in the hell the Kareem win MVP in 76 when his Bucks had a 38-44 record? Were his stats not impactful? Were they diminished?

If that be the case then I shudder to think what would be said about them had the Bucks won 4 more games. :rolleyes:


If Wade had career highs in 07-08, they wouldn't have been looked upon very highly because his team missed the playoffs and were one of the worst teams. Even in 08-09 when Wade did indeed have career highs and his team did make the playoffs.... his stats were still somewhat diminished because his team only finished 5th seeded, and got knocked out in the first round. That's the clear reason he wasn't an MVP favored player. Although the stats are empty Wade didn't suddenly become garbage in 07-08, but the fact remains because of his team's record the value of whatever statline he had gets diminished somewhat. Love isn't a garbage player even though his stats mostly in vain, its just that they get diminished because his team finished dead last and most of the impact players were healthy for most the year.

Most of the impact players? I 'd like you hear your analysis of the 2010-2011 Minnesota Timberwolves roster. Garnett's prime must be diminished as well right? He missed the playoffs and had sub .500 seasons so his prime is diminished right? He wasn't a top 2 PF because he wasn't making the playoffs but Dirk was so Dirk was always better than KG right?

You really need to get a grip and an understanding of what you're saying because your logic can and will be proven wrong everytime. We are not talking about the MVP award here we are talking about top 5 players at their position in the league.


This has always been the rule of thumb. I don't know why people want to change things when the circumstances suit them for a player they like.

No one is changing anything.

I would LOVE to know this rule of thumb that has been this way forever that says a player cannot be a top 5 player at his position because his team is among the worst in the league.

Tell me when was the last time you ever saw any player in the history of this glorious game we call Basketball have a season like Kevin Love.

Where is the rule of thumb in that? :pity: