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View Full Version : NBA Mock Off-Season Playoffs - #1) New Jersey Nets vs. #4) New York Knicks



KnicksorBust
07-25-2011, 08:43 PM
Hello Everyone,

Welcome to the NBA Mock Off-season Playoff voting. Every summer, between 50-65 PSD users participate in a game where each GM takes on the challenge of running the off-season for an NBA team. Those GM's are free to make trades, signings, pick up team option on players, conduct the draft etc as ways to help better improve their team. What we have here is the results of those GM's hard-work as we have now reached the playoffs.

Keep in mind when voting that teams have changed dramatically through the mock and many teams are operating with completely new starting line ups. So please take the time to look at the teams closely (depth chart and write up) before voting. Try to avoid being a homer and vote simply on who is the better team in the match up.

#1) New Jersey Nets vs. #4) New York Knicks

Nets have homecourt advantage!


Nets Depth Chart
C- Marcus Camby / DeSagna Diop / Brad Miller
PF- Dirk Nowitzki / Brad Miller / Jared jeffries
SF- Andrei Kirilenko / Ryan Gomes / Rasual Butler
SG- Dwyane Wade / Willie Green / Rasual Butler
PG: Jarrett Jack / Jerryd Bayless / Ronnie Price


Knicks Depth Chart
C: Dwight Howard (38) / Louis Amundson (5)/ Charlie Villanueva (5)
PF: Charlie Villanueva (21)/ Hakim Warrick (17)/ Carmelo Anthony (10)
SF: Carmelo Anthony (30) / Francisco Garcia (18)
SG: Keith Bogans (20)/ Anthony Parker (20)/ Francisco Garcia (8)
PG: Chauncey Billups (35)/ Jimmer Fredette (13)/ Earl Watson

Knicks Writeup:

Congrats to the Nets for creating a very nice team with little to work with in NJ. They have done a great job but we feel that the Knicks are going to pull an upset here in round 2.

PG Matchup: Chauncey Billups (NYK) vs. Jarret Jack (NJN)
Billups has the clear advantage here. Jack isn’t lightning quick to exploit Chauncey’s declining speed and is more suited for the backup PG position. Chauncey had a super efficient season, with a TS% of 62% (5th in the NBA) and he still has enough in the tank to lead this team far in the playoffs. On defense, Chauncey will help to deny Dirk the basketball. We will make Jack hit the shot and not let Dirk get the ball inside the three point line.

SG Matchup: Keith Bogans (NYK) vs. Dwyane Wade (NJN)
Wade has the advantage here, no questions asked. But in the 2010-2011 playoffs Bogans did an admirable job versus Wade. Wade was held to 19 points per game on 40% shooting with 4 TO’s per game by Bogans during the six games. Bogans on our team will need to just shoot the three and play 18-24 minutes of hard nose, tough basketball. Billups will also be guarding Wade when Bogans sits down because he has the size and strength to guard Wade effectively. Also, with Dwight in the paint, driving will be made more difficult. In his four games versus Dwight and the Magic, Wade has gone 9-20, 6-21, 5-12, and 10-18. Only one of those nights did he have a good shooting percentage because of Dwight in the paint. And you might be thinking that he’ll get Dwight in foul trouble, but in the four matchups, Dwight averaged only 3 fouls per game, and that’s with LeBron and Bosh by Wade’s side who also have a propensity for drawing fouls.

SF Matchup: Carmelo Anthony (NYK) vs. Andrei Kirilenko (NJN)
On the surface this may look like an okay matchup for the Nets but it’s not. Over their matchups in the last two years, Carmelo averaged 31 points on 57% shooting, 7 boards, and 4 assists per game versus Kirilenko. Melo also got to the line 9.5 times per game, getting the opposing bigs in foul trouble. Kirilenko? 7 points, on 40% shooting and 4 rebounds. Also, on this team, Carmelo will have a dominant post option in the paint in Dwight Howard so he’ll have less of a burden on the offensive end and he’ll face less double teams than he normally does. Melo will also be able to play help defense on Melo to try to deny Dirk the ball in the paint at times and make AK hit the jumper, which he has not shown the ability to hit consistently. We will also be playing a small lineup at times and move Carmelo to the PF to create a mismatch on offense. Dirk on Melo would be disastrous for the Nets as Melo would get Dirk in foul trouble and have trouble staying in front of him. And if Camby comes to help, it’s an easy bucket for Dwight.

PF Matchup: Charlie Villanueva (NYK) vs. Dirk Nowitzki (NJN)
Dirk’s offensive prowess is undeniable and it’s not secret that Charlie isn’t known as a good defender. But surprisingly Dirk has had a hard time stopping Charlie V in their previous matchups as well. Charlie’s stats versus Dirk when given more than 22 minutes in their last six games are: 20.4 PPG, 8 Rbs, 53% from the field, 48% from 3 point territory. He has pretty much had his way with Dirk on the offensive end as of recent. On the defensive end, Charlie will have the aid of Dwight in the paint and though Dirk can score from anywhere, the Dwight effect is undeniable. In Dirk’s last three games versus Dwight Howard, his shooting was as follows: 10/24, 9/22, 4/13. Dirk has not produced efficiently when Dwight Howard is in the game. And it’s not as if Dwight has faced a great PF defensively. Dwight’s PF playing mates have been Bass, Rashard, Hedo, and Ryan Anderson, none of who are good defenders. Dwight’s effect on defense WILL have an effect on Dirk’s production. Dirk will also be denied the ball by the PG we put on the floor or the SF and make life hell for Dirk.

C Matchup: Dwight Howard (NYK) vs. Marcus Camby (NJN)
We feel that this is the biggest mismatch of the series. Dwight Howard will terrorize Camby in this series. Many don’t even believe that Camby is a starting material Center any more. In their last two matchups Dwight’s averages are: 32 Pts, 13 rbs, 5 blocks, on 67% shooting all while getting to the line at an average of 16.5 times per game. He is going to get Camby or Dirk in foul trouble which will force him to bring in a bench player, and his bench is extremely thin especially at the center position. If Dwight does get doubled, then either Melo will have a field day or the Knicks sharpshooters will drain open threes. Also, Camby has an extremely limited offensive game so Dwight can focus on his help defense on Wade and Dirk, and he has proved that he can make life more difficult for each of them. Now you might be thinking that this will get Dwight in foul trouble, but he was able to alter Dirk’s game while committing only ONE foul per game, and alter DWade’s game while committing only THREE fouls per game. He has proven that he can control his fouls and make life hell for players with his dominance on the defensive end.


Benches: Jimmer/Watson/Parker/Garcia/Warrick/Amundson vs. Bayless/Green/Gomes/Miller/Butler

I think it’s pretty clear who has the edge here. Jimmer can shoot from deep and lead the troops for 10-15 minutes, Parker is a good veteran player off the bench that provides solid D and outside shooting, Garcia is a starting caliber wing who can score a solid 10 ppg, Warrick is a good energizer and offensive player who can score efficiently next to Dwight, and Amundson is a tough player who can sub in for Dwight for 10-15 minutes. Green and Bayless can both score but neither scores rather effectively. Gomes is offensively challenged. He scored 7 PPG in almost 30 minutes per game this year, and he isn’t a great defender, so I don’t expect him to be a game changer of any sort. Butler used to be a very good role player, but he had an absolutely horrific year, partly due to injuries. And who knows how Brad Miller will produce. Camby can’t play more than 25 minutes, so can Miller play 20? And if he does, he’s going to get demolished by Dwight.

The Knicks and Nets both have star power and solid role players around them but one team has the better combination of offense and defense. Dwight has proved that he can alter Wade’s and Dirk’s games with his defense and that will be huge in stopping the Nets as they have no other reliable offensive weapons. Dwight is going to also run rampant on the offensive end. He’ll be guarded by two centers whose combined age is 72. Neither can even hinder him at this point in his career, and that evident in Dwight’s recent meetings with Camby. If they do double Dwight then Melo will have a huge series offensively. He has scored very easily and efficiently versus AK47 and has gotten to the line at will. He will also force Dirk and Camby into foul trouble and force the Nets to bring in either Gomes or Miller which will swing the game in favor of the Knicks. In late game scenarios, we have the most clutch scorer in the league and in a one on one situation, there’s nobody I’d rather have with the ball. Also, when we go small for spurts of the game, we will have a ton of mismatches on offense that will be easy to exploit such as Dirk-Melo. And on defense, a player with Melo’s frame can cause an issue for Dwight- kind of a Stephen Jackson type of situation. And Charlie V at center will cause an issue for Camby because Camby will have to come out of his comfort zone and to the perimeter where Charlie V will either get open looks or solid driving opportunities with no enforcer left in the paint. On defense, Camby is very limited so Charlie won’t be exposed as much as he usually would at the center position. Home court will not be an issue here. The Nets have a very poor supporting crowd, and there are an abundance of Knicks fans in Jersey (like yours truly) who will help weaken the effect of home court advantage in Jersey.

The Knicks will win this series in 7 games.

Nets Writeup:

Just wanna say thanks to everyone who voted for us in the last round, and also good luck to our new foe; Rosh and the New York Knicks.

Quickly onto the math-ups, and why I think we'd win the series:

Point Guard: Obviously Chauncey is the big name here, but come on, the guy has aged a lot quicker than a lot of fans thought. He has the name, but I honestly think this will be an even match up, and a position that for once, we actually have more depth at than our opponent. With the Knicks, Chauncey was terribly innefficient, and we are happy if he gets his 17 points a game if he does it shooting a shade over 40%, which he did last season with the Knicks. And if he does heat up at any point, we can just have Wade cover him, as Bogans isn't exactly the most potent threat for him to cover at his own position. As a starting guard last season, in 28 minutes a game Jack averaged 12-5, so he's no slouch.

Wings: The shooting guard match up really isn't fair for the Knicks at all. Bogans didn't have the best of times for the Bulls last season, with a lot of his own team's fans targetting him with abuse. I'm pretty sure you all know how good Wade is, and what he's capable of doing. While the PG match up was close, we are looking at a +20 point advantage for the Nets at shooting guard.

At small forward its more AK v Melo action. These two have been division rivals for years, and have seen a lot of each other. I'm not gunna lie, Melo always gets the best of AK, and has always scored his points. The Knicks win this, but not as badly as we win the 2 guard battle, with AK still good to chip in with double figures, and his rebounding/passing is a great bonus for us to have. He also has great versatility, and could be a great cover for Charlie Vil in this series.

Depth wise we're pretty equal. Yes, we have no stella names on our bench, but its useful. Garcia and Parker combined for roughly 18-5-4 last season while Green/Gomes combined for 16-5-3. Pretty samey. I like Gomes size to put on Anthony though, I think he could hold his own if AK got any rare foul trouble.

Bigs: Dirk on CVills is just unfair. Dirk on any big on their team is unfair. The match up does not favor them, as they cant simply throw Dwight at him and say his great defense will combat him, as Dirk's game isn't about crashing to the basket. Cant see any way around this not being a brutal, and series costing match up for the Knicks.

At center, Dwight Howard is a monster, but is slight overkill defensively in this series. His great defense is wasted on Camby, and while he's ok offensively, his offense isn't going to win his team a series. We feel Camby is a suitable cover for him, able to challenge him with his defense and rebounding ability. We can also throw big bodies at Dwight like Diop, to take fouls here and there.

Overall, we feel we win this series because while Melo and Dwight do damage, we feel we cover those two players a lot better than they cover Wade and Dirk. I'd also argue, that for once our supporting cast outsodes that of the opposition as well.

Sadds The Gr8
07-25-2011, 08:47 PM
Charlie Villanueva being in a starting lineup was enough for me to vote for the Nets. If they had a better PF, I prolly woulda voted for the Knicks.

Chacarron
07-25-2011, 08:50 PM
Charlie Villanueva being in a starting lineup was enough for me to vote for the Nets. If they had a better PF, I prolly woulda voted for the Knicks.

Did you even read the writeups?

roshan3ai
07-25-2011, 08:53 PM
Chauncey was terribly innefficient, and we are happy if he gets his 17 points a game if he does it shooting a shade over 40%, which he did last season with the Knicks.

This actually isn't true at all. He had a 62% TS% from the field, good for 5th in the league. He shoots a great percentage from the line and from deep and he gets to the line well for a PG.

jimbobjarree
07-25-2011, 08:54 PM
our real write up:


Point Guard: Jarret Jack/Jerryd Bayless vs Chauncey Billups/Jimmer Fredette- Obviously Chauncey is the big name here, but come on, the guy has aged a lot quicker than a lot of fans thought. He has the name, but I honestly think this will be an even match up, and a position that for once, we actually have more depth at than our opponent. With the Knicks, Chauncey was terribly innefficient, and we are happy if he gets his 17 points a game if he does it shooting a shade over 40%, which he did last season with the Knicks. Then throw in the fact that Chauncey was injured last year, he will probably slow down even more with another season under his belt. And if he does heat up at any point, we can just have Wade cover him, as Bogans isn't exactly the most potent threat for him to cover at his own position. As a starting guard last season, in 28 minutes a game Jack averaged 12-5 on 45 % so he's no slouch. Then we have the backups. Jerryd Bayless vs Jimmer Fredette. Another machup we feel that is a pretty big advantage for us. We have a guard on our bench who could be starting who is extremely quick and explosive against a rookie PG who’s biggest question was fast enough to play defense in the NBA. We feel Bayless will be too fast for Fredette to handle and should be able to provide a big scoring spark for us here. Overall the difference between Bayless and Fredette (since he is an unproven rookie) is more than Billups and Jack which gives us the advantage here.

Shooting Guard: Dwyane Wade/Willie Green vs Keith Bogans/Anthony Parker- The shooting guard match up really isn't fair for the Knicks at all. Bogans didn't have the best of times for the Bulls last season, with a lot of his own team's fans targeting him with abuse. I'm pretty sure you all know how good Wade is, and what he's capable of doing. While the PG match up was close, we are looking at a +20 point advantage for the Nets at shooting guard. Even if he decides to start Parker at SG for this matchup, the result will be the same. Wade averaged 28 PPG against Parker for his career. Basically it won’t matter who they put on Wade, they have no one that can effectively guard him. For the bench we have Willie Green vs Parker/Bogans…whoever they don’t start. Probably a wash if anything, but worth noting that Green was the best scorer out of them even though he played 8 minutes less then Parker. Either way with Wade at SG we have a huge advantage over the Knicks here.

Small Forward: AK47/Ryan Gomes vs Carmelo Anthony/Francisco Garcia forward its more AK v Melo action. These two have been division rivals for years, and have seen a lot of each other. I'm not gonna lie, Melo always gets the best of AK, and has always scored his points. Atleast we have some length to throw at Melo, and can even throw Gomes at him since he has size and won’t be bullied. Also we feel the more Melo has the ball, the less Howard gets it. Overall they are better at the SF position and have the advantage here.

Power Forward: Dirk Nowitzki/Jared Jeffries vs Charlie Villanueva/Hakim Warrick- Once again matchup we have the huge advantage with. We have reigning finals MVP Dirk Nowitzki vs Charlie Villanueva. This one isn’t even close and I don’t feel we need to make a huge writeup over. We have the best PF in the game, and no one can guard him. Charlie V isn’t really that bad, but in this case…well Dirk will make anyone look bad. For the bench we have Jared Jeffries vs Hakim Warrick. This one is probably a wash. Warrick is the better offensive player over Jeffries..which isn’t saying much, but Jeffries is the much better defensive player and is more versatile. We feel that while Jeffries probably wont score more then 4 or 5 a game, he will be able to hold Warrick in check. Huge advantage to the Nets again.

Center: Marcus Camby/Brad Miller/Desagana Diop vs Dwight Howard/Louis Amundson
We wont try to make a case that we have the advantage here since we don’t. They have the best center in the game. What we will say though is that we have 3 7 footers to throw at Howard. 18 fouls to use. We know that Howard has a temper, so maybe if he’s getting fouled so much he’ll lose it and do something stupid. He also is a terrible free throw shooter as we all know, and I have no problem resorting to “hack-a-Dwight” if it came down to it. Between the three of these guys we feel that while Dwight is still a monster, and won’t stop him completely we could atleast limit him a little bit. Also with Melo dominating the ball will Dwight even get enough touches? Either way the Knicks have the advantage here.

Summary: Overall we feel we have the better team. We feel that the advantages we have with Wade and Dirk are more substantial than the ones they have with Melo and Dwight. We also feel feel that even though Billups is better then Jack, the difference with Bayless over Fredette gives us the advantage there. Even though our neither of our benches are anything special, we feel we have the small advantage there as well.

Also in case the Knicks were considering playing small by putting Carmelo at the 4 and starting Garcia at the three…here is our counter for that. We will keep our same lineup, but switch our defense up a little bit. We will put Dirk on Bogans, Wade on Garcia and keep AK47 on Melo. We do not want Dirk having to guard Melo at all, and if he guards Bogans he really won’t have to worry about anything or losing energy on defense. If anything it probably hurts them because they lose some size, and still don’t have anyone to guard Dirk. I would love for them to put Melo on Dirk. Wastes his energy and just will make it harder for him to score.

roshan3ai
07-25-2011, 08:56 PM
Jimbob wasn't robbob your co?

Sadds The Gr8
07-25-2011, 08:58 PM
Did you even read the writeups?

tbh, no.

roshan3ai
07-25-2011, 09:01 PM
tbh, no.

Wow. I just lost some respect for you

Chacarron
07-25-2011, 09:02 PM
I'll be voting in a little bit. This matchup is very close in my opinion.

roshan3ai
07-25-2011, 09:06 PM
All I ask is that people read my writeup.

MacFitz92
07-25-2011, 09:06 PM
Dirk and Wade.

Sadds The Gr8
07-25-2011, 09:10 PM
Wow. I just lost some respect for you
lol

All I ask is that people read my writeup.
i read it, and i'm still not convinced...

KnicksorBust
07-25-2011, 09:12 PM
Initially I was leaning towards Nets but the Knicks writeup is so much better. Dwight would feast on Camby/Diop/Miller. Dirk would feast on CV. Melo would feast on AK. Wade would feast on Bogans. There are mismatches all over the place. With Dwight being the best help defender in the series I'm now torn.

roshan3ai
07-25-2011, 09:12 PM
lol

i read it, and i'm still not convinced...

That's fine. All I ask is that you read it

Slimsim
07-25-2011, 09:12 PM
I was about to pick NJ but i think NY actually has the better bench. Very tough to vote atm

CHANGO
07-25-2011, 09:16 PM
The Nets have two superstars, and have a great defensive-offensive balance. I take it.

PocketKings
07-25-2011, 09:18 PM
I give the slight edge to the Knicks due to the reason being that yes the Nets have Dirk and Wade who have advantages over Charlie V and Bogans, but the Knicks with Melo and Dwight might cause more problems for the Nets.

Dwight will impact the floor more on both ends of the floor this series and is going to be a monster. Camby's remaining real strength which is his rebounding will be negated due to Dwight being in the picture also Dwight will assist in making Wade and Dirk's life harder.

Also, I trust Charlie V to at least be productive in this series as pointed out by Roshan's write-up which is a reason to read write-ups versus AK47 or Camby.

Therefore, slight edge to the Knicks to take this series in 7.

jimbobjarree
07-25-2011, 09:23 PM
Jimbob wasn't robbob your co?

he got signed up, but didn't do anything. I dont think he checked in, so I asked Josh to join me and the rest is history.

Iodine
07-25-2011, 09:34 PM
How the **** are the Knicks even getting a thought. THEIR IDEA TO STOP DIRK IS TO THROW BILLUPS OR MELO AT HIM.

I mean that means either Jack who is a good spot shooter or AK who if nothing else is a willing passer will be open to get a shot.

Oh and theres the fact that Dwight does not "feast" on anyone. sorry but when you have NEVER had a season where you average 14 FGA or a playoff's like that either, I really feel bad when your team plan is to have him dominate.

Switch
07-25-2011, 09:42 PM
Very close, NY takes it in 7

roshan3ai
07-25-2011, 09:42 PM
How the **** are the Knicks even getting a thought. THEIR IDEA TO STOP DIRK IS TO THROW BILLUPS OR MELO AT HIM.

I mean that means either Jack who is a good spot shooter or AK who if nothing else is a willing passer will be open to get a shot.

Oh and theres the fact that Dwight does not "feast" on anyone. sorry but when you have NEVER had a season where you average 14 FGA or a playoff's like that either, I really feel bad when your team plan is to have him dominate.

Who said I'm going to throw Melo/Billups at them? They are going to deny him the ball inside the three point line and let Jack/AK beat them.

Did you even see his stats versus Camby? He did "feast" on him. Why the **** would FGA matter when he gets to the line over 10 times a game? He gets the opposing bigs in trouble. Either he gets 30+ against Camby who hasn't shown the ability to stop him in the past or they double him and let a shooter open or let Melo go nuts.

Will 2 BE
07-25-2011, 09:56 PM
Real tough choice. Nets can kill you from the outside, Knicks will look to get to the basket and draw fouls. I dont know i say this series is decided by the refs..... If this was a real game i mean....

Crackadalic
07-25-2011, 10:01 PM
Thought Boston would win the last matchup but o well

After reading both write ups I can the slight edge to the knicks. Bogans guarding d-wade that series impress me. Melo Always burns AK47. Billups is the better player but jack is a known knick killer so I say there about even. Dirk is gonna light Charlie V up but previous matchups proves charlie can put up some stats against him too. D12 is gonna kill Camby

But benches look pretty even to me

Mr. Baller
07-25-2011, 10:19 PM
Nets, thought the last trade for the Knicks cost them

Crackadalic
07-25-2011, 10:23 PM
Nets, thought the last trade for the Knicks cost them

What trade?

roshan3ai
07-25-2011, 10:25 PM
What trade?

Before, my team was:

C: Javale McGee/ Louis Amundson
PF: KG/ Charlie V/ Warrick
SF: Melo/ Garcia
SG: Harden/ Parker
PG: Billups/ Watson

Crackadalic
07-25-2011, 10:29 PM
Before, my team was:

C: Javale McGee/ Louis Amundson
PF: KG/ Charlie V/ Warrick
SF: Melo/ Garcia
SG: Harden/ Parker
PG: Billups/ Watson

O ok. I still think the knicks have the slight edge as I said in my previous post

RocketsRule
07-25-2011, 10:38 PM
Initially I was leaning towards Nets but the Knicks writeup is so much better. Dwight would feast on Camby/Diop/Miller. Dirk would feast on CV. Melo would feast on AK. Wade would feast on Bogans. There are mismatches all over the place. With Dwight being the best help defender in the series I'm now torn.

You basically summed up my feelings as well. Hmmmm I'll come back to this one.

knicks=love
07-25-2011, 11:09 PM
Initially I was leaning towards Nets but the Knicks writeup is so much better. Dwight would feast on Camby/Diop/Miller. Dirk would feast on CV. Melo would feast on AK. Wade would feast on Bogans. There are mismatches all over the place. With Dwight being the best help defender in the series I'm now torn.

this is what got me. i saw 5 mismatches and 3 of them in favor of the knicks. yes, the nets have wade and dirk.. what else? AK47 is good, but not carmelo good. both benches are meh, but both teams deserve to be in this spot. i like this for the knicks and honestly think it would be a 7 game series with out a doubt or any 2nd thoughts. roshi's writeup won me over as well. amazing job man.

MelkyNYY
07-25-2011, 11:31 PM
How the **** are the Knicks even getting a thought. THEIR IDEA TO STOP DIRK IS TO THROW BILLUPS OR MELO AT HIM.

I mean that means either Jack who is a good spot shooter or AK who if nothing else is a willing passer will be open to get a shot.

Oh and theres the fact that Dwight does not "feast" on anyone. sorry but when you have NEVER had a season where you average 14 FGA or a playoff's like that either, I really feel bad when your team plan is to have him dominate.

This

roshan3ai
07-25-2011, 11:49 PM
Bump!

RocketsRule
07-25-2011, 11:56 PM
I went Knicks, just because of Dwight's ability to change a team defensively. He'll make life for Wade and Dirk (to a lesser extent) difficult while completely dominating Camby at the other end.

ABOMB_56
07-26-2011, 12:05 AM
I have to go to the Nets even though the Knicks write-up was oh so close to swaying me the other way.

Kashmir13579
07-26-2011, 12:13 AM
This actually isn't true at all. He had a 62% TS% from the field, good for 5th in the league. He shoots a great percentage from the line and from deep and he gets to the line well for a PG.

Best TS% out of all PGs if i remember correctly.

Joshtd1
07-26-2011, 12:17 AM
Here is my writeup. I forgot to send it in earlier. Please take time toread it.


Quickly onto the math-ups, and why I think we'd win the series:

Point Guard: Jarret Jack/Jerryd Bayless vs Chauncey Billups/Jimmer Fredette- Obviously Chauncey is the big name here, but come on, the guy has aged a lot quicker than a lot of fans thought. He has the name, but I honestly think this will be an even match up, and a position that for once, we actually have more depth at than our opponent. With the Knicks, Chauncey was terribly innefficient, and we are happy if he gets his 17 points a game if he does it shooting a shade over 40%, which he did last season with the Knicks. Then throw in the fact that Chauncey was injured last year, he will probably slow down even more with another season under his belt. And if he does heat up at any point, we can just have Wade cover him, as Bogans isn't exactly the most potent threat for him to cover at his own position. As a starting guard last season, in 28 minutes a game Jack averaged 12-5 on 45 % so he's no slouch. Then we have the backups. Jerryd Bayless vs Jimmer Fredette. Another machup we feel that is a pretty big advantage for us. We have a guard on our bench who could be starting who is extremely quick and explosive against a rookie PG who’s biggest question was fast enough to play defense in the NBA. We feel Bayless will be too fast for Fredette to handle and should be able to provide a big scoring spark for us here. Overall the difference between Bayless and Fredette (since he is an unproven rookie) is more than Billups and Jack which gives us the advantage here.

Shooting Guard: Dwyane Wade/Willie Green vs Keith Bogans/Anthony Parker- The shooting guard match up really isn't fair for the Knicks at all. Bogans didn't have the best of times for the Bulls last season, with a lot of his own team's fans targeting him with abuse. I'm pretty sure you all know how good Wade is, and what he's capable of doing. While the PG match up was close, we are looking at a +20 point advantage for the Nets at shooting guard. Even if he decides to start Parker at SG for this matchup, the result will be the same. Wade averaged 28 PPG against Parker for his career. Basically it won’t matter who they put on Wade, they have no one that can effectively guard him. For the bench we have Willie Green vs Parker/Bogans…whoever they don’t start. Probably a wash if anything, but worth noting that Green was the best scorer out of them even though he played 8 minutes less then Parker. Either way with Wade at SG we have a huge advantage over the Knicks here.

Small Forward: AK47/Ryan Gomes vs Carmelo Anthony/Francisco Garcia forward its more AK v Melo action. These two have been division rivals for years, and have seen a lot of each other. I'm not gonna lie, Melo always gets the best of AK, and has always scored his points. Atleast we have some length to throw at Melo, and can even throw Gomes at him since he has size and won’t be bullied. Also we feel the more Melo has the ball, the less Howard gets it. Overall they are better at the SF position and have the advantage here.

Power Forward: Dirk Nowitzki/Jared Jeffries vs Charlie Villanueva/Hakim Warrick- Once again matchup we have the huge advantage with. We have reigning finals MVP Dirk Nowitzki vs Charlie Villanueva. This one isn’t even close and I don’t feel we need to make a huge writeup over. We have the best PF in the game, and no one can guard him. Charlie V isn’t really that bad, but in this case…well Dirk will make anyone look bad. For the bench we have Jared Jeffries vs Hakim Warrick. This one is probably a wash. Warrick is the better offensive player over Jeffries..which isn’t saying much, but Jeffries is the much better defensive player and is more versatile. We feel that while Jeffries probably wont score more then 4 or 5 a game, he will be able to hold Warrick in check. Huge advantage to the Nets again.

Center: Marcus Camby/Brad Miller/Desagana Diop vs Dwight Howard/Louis Amundson
We wont try to make a case that we have the advantage here since we don’t. They have the best center in the game. What we will say though is that we have 3 7 footers to throw at Howard. 18 fouls to use. We know that Howard has a temper, so maybe if he’s getting fouled so much he’ll lose it and do something stupid. He also is a terrible free throw shooter as we all know, and I have no problem resorting to “hack-a-Dwight” if it came down to it. Between the three of these guys we feel that while Dwight is still a monster, and won’t stop him completely we could atleast limit him a little bit. Also with Melo dominating the ball will Dwight even get enough touches? Either way the Knicks have the advantage here.

Summary: Overall we feel we have the better team. We feel that the advantages we have with Wade and Dirk are more substantial than the ones they have with Melo and Dwight. We also feel feel that even though Billups is better then Jack, the difference with Bayless over Fredette gives us the advantage there. Even though our neither of our benches are anything special, we feel we have the small advantage there as well.

Also in case the Knicks were considering playing small by putting Carmelo at the 4 and starting Garcia at the three…here is our counter for that. We will keep our same lineup, but switch our defense up a little bit. We will put Dirk on Bogans, Wade on Garcia and keep AK47 on Melo. We do not want Dirk having to guard Melo at all, and if he guards Bogans he really won’t have to worry about anything or losing energy on defense. If anything it probably hurts them because they lose some size, and still don’t have anyone to guard Dirk. I would love for them to put Melo on Dirk. Wastes his energy and just will make it harder for him to score.

PocketKings
07-26-2011, 12:50 AM
I believe the official count on this matchup is tied.
23-23

sep11ie
07-26-2011, 01:03 AM
Very close, but I gotta go with the Knicks. I think they are deeper and that Melo/Dwight combo is scurrrrrry.

sep11ie
07-26-2011, 01:04 AM
Good series though, Knicks in 7...

mightybosstone
07-26-2011, 01:12 AM
I don't need to read a writeup to look at two teams and have an opinion. The Nets are the better team. Period. And they would win this series.

I love Dwight, but Melo is one of the most overrated players I've ever watched, extremely inefficient, and I like Kirilenko on him. And their starting lineup has Villanueva in it. I don't care what stats you show me about their head to head matchups. You know what that doesn't take into consideration? The postseason.

And while I'm not super impressed with either bench, Jimmer Fredette as your backup point guard in the playoffs does you no favors, especially starting a 34-year-old Chauncey, whose minutes have decreased the last few seasons and who dealt with injury concerns in his last postseason.

The mismatch of Dirk alone gives the Nets this one in my eyes. There is no one on that roster capable of defending him, unless you pull Dwight away from the basket, and that's a horrible idea with Wade on the floor.

Nets in 6.

Joshtd1
07-26-2011, 01:28 AM
I hope people take time to read my write up, that was the one that should have been in the first page. I just forgot to send it in. Damn it.

For the benches..I really can't see how the Knicks are deeper..if anything they would be a wash, I still think we have a slight advantage though..

Lil Half Dead
07-26-2011, 01:36 AM
Nets do well in the marquee matchups IMO. AK on Melo and Camby on Dwight is damn solid.

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 01:41 AM
Nets do well in the marquee matchups IMO. AK on Melo and Camby on Dwight is damn solid.

Not really. They've both had their way against ak and camby

Joshtd1
07-26-2011, 01:55 AM
Not really. They've both had their way against ak and camby

Melo yes..Dwight not so sure. He actually hasn't been all that great against Camby..or Brad Miller either..even Diop when he got some minutes. I think he's the easiest to handle out of all of our stars tbh, but he is a defensive beast which helps.

Of course Im going to stick up for the team here, but regardless I believe Wade and Dirk's mismatches are bigger then what Melo and Dwight would have.

Joshtd1
07-26-2011, 01:57 AM
Just did some quick research on the voting so far.

Half the NYK votes have come from Knick fans..and 4 of the total voters are under 100 posts. Oh the joy of having a team with a big fanbase eh Roshy:)

Nets have 1 voter under 100 votes currently.

GL the rest of the way

Evolution23
07-26-2011, 02:10 AM
I'll take the Knicks in 7. Bogans has done a decent job on Wade on the defensive end, Charlie will get some points against Dirk surprisingly, Melo will light up AK47, and Dwight will be main defensive and rebounding machine for the Knicks.

The Nets will keep it close though because there is no answer for Dirk. The strategy should be to let Dirk get his and make wade shoot the ball more (easier said than done). Camby will have a hard time guarding and rebounding over DH. Pretty close but still Knicks in 7.

Raps08-09 Champ
07-26-2011, 02:18 AM
I got the Nets.

Howard won't be as effective towards Dirk since Dirk can avoid Howard by shooting it.

Evolution23
07-26-2011, 02:18 AM
Here is my writeup. I forgot to send it in earlier. Please take time toread it.

I'm not sold on your argument about Billups being ineffective. He is a leader and a proven winner, you can't teach that. Also Bayless has been pretty terrible and hasn't done anything in his short NBA carreer yet for you to be saying you have a huge advantage at the PG position. The same could be said about Federette but atleast with Jimmer there is an unknown factor that I can throw out there.

RevisIsland
07-26-2011, 02:23 AM
Very tough call, but I went with the Knicks.

Joshtd1
07-26-2011, 02:29 AM
I'm not sold on your argument about Billups being ineffective. He is a leader and a proven winner, you can't teach that. Also Bayless has been pretty terrible and hasn't done anything in his short NBA carreer yet for you to be saying you have a huge advantage at the PG position. The same could be said about Federette but atleast with Jimmer there is an unknown factor that I can throw out there.

I never said he would be ineffective. He is a better player then Jack, my point was that I don't think he has a huge advantage over Jack who, when healthy and starting has actually put up some pretty decent numbers. He isn't a terrible defender either. Bayless when given the opportunity to start has actually been pretty decent as well, and you can't deny that he isn't quick and explosive...the type of guard that people feel Jimmer will struggle to guard. Him being unknown does hurt him right now. We don't know what he can do, and with that Bayless should have a big advantage over him, more then Billups has over Jack.

Chill_Will_24
07-26-2011, 02:31 AM
Wade and Dirk :drool:

Raps08-09 Champ
07-26-2011, 02:44 AM
I'm not sold on your argument about Billups being ineffective. He is a leader and a proven winner, you can't teach that. Also Bayless has been pretty terrible and hasn't done anything in his short NBA carreer yet for you to be saying you have a huge advantage at the PG position. The same could be said about Federette but atleast with Jimmer there is an unknown factor that I can throw out there.

I don't know.

Billups has experience but he's kinda over rated. He shouldn't even be called a star like how some people consider him to be.

Ebbs
07-26-2011, 04:01 AM
How the **** are the Knicks even getting a thought. THEIR IDEA TO STOP DIRK IS TO THROW BILLUPS OR MELO AT HIM.

I mean that means either Jack who is a good spot shooter or AK who if nothing else is a willing passer will be open to get a shot.

Oh and theres the fact that Dwight does not "feast" on anyone. sorry but when you have NEVER had a season where you average 14 FGA or a playoff's like that either, I really feel bad when your team plan is to have him dominate.

Ok first off you clearly missed yhe point. Melo and Chauncey are going to deny the pass to Dirk... As a Mavericks fan who watched every post season game that was the only way to slow him down. You keep the ball out of his hands or you you take you're chances with last years best offensive player. Obviously Dirk is going to kill it there is nothing they can do about that. But they can deny the pass in and force Dirk to run out and get rhe ball at the three point line.

Secondly I agree Dwight has a long ways to go on his offensive game but did you watch the playoffs last year? 27 PPG (career high), 15 RPG, and career highs in FG and FT%... how is that not feasting?

Knicks21
07-26-2011, 05:45 AM
Why the hell did you draft Jeffries?

PocketKings
07-26-2011, 09:42 AM
34-32 is the official count I believe after you subtract votes of posters with less than 100 votes.

This is going to go down to the wire!

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 10:26 AM
Official Count: 37-35 in favor of the Nets

Sportfan
07-26-2011, 10:59 AM
Nets, I give rosh a lot of cred for that writeup, but the Nets have defenders at your strongest positions.

Also, I'm not going to start accusing anyone but it's awfully fishy that of the 40 votes the Knicks have, 31 of them (approx) are Knicks fans, with 2 more being dupes. This poll also has 15 more votes than the other one. Hm.

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 11:06 AM
Looks like the Knicks are losing some steam here. Down three now

LongIslandIcedZ
07-26-2011, 11:46 AM
If people are really making new accounts to give their team the lead in votes.....wow.

I voted for the Knicks because the write-up was much much better.

knicks=love
07-26-2011, 11:50 AM
Nets, I give rosh a lot of cred for that writeup, but the Nets have defenders at your strongest positions.

Also, I'm not going to start accusing anyone but it's awfully fishy that of the 40 votes the Knicks have, 31 of them (approx) are Knicks fans, with 2 more being dupes. This poll also has 15 more votes than the other one. Hm.

I knew this would come up. As a Knicks fan, I didn't pick the Knicks just because of that. I liked the team better. Read my earlier post, I don't need to explain again. I'm sure some of the other Knicks fans did that, which doesn't surprise me, but I didn't.

JNA17
07-26-2011, 11:51 AM
Very tough one but i had to go with the Knicks. Wade and Dirk is brutal but I like Billups/Melo/Dwight a lot better.

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 11:52 AM
If people are really making new accounts to give their team the lead in votes.....wow.

I voted for the Knicks because the write-up was much much better.

Nobody's creating dupes for their team. And even if they did the votes wouldn't count because votes from posters with less than 100 votes don't count against the vote total.

pebloemer
07-26-2011, 12:22 PM
our real write up:
Point Guard: Jarret Jack/Jerryd Bayless vs Chauncey Billups/Jimmer Fredette- Obviously Chauncey is the big name here, but come on, the guy has aged a lot quicker than a lot of fans thought. He has the name, but I honestly think this will be an even match up, and a position that for once, we actually have more depth at than our opponent. With the Knicks, Chauncey was terribly innefficient, and we are happy if he gets his 17 points a game if he does it shooting a shade over 40%, which he did last season with the Knicks. Then throw in the fact that Chauncey was injured last year, he will probably slow down even more with another season under his belt. And if he does heat up at any point, we can just have Wade cover him, as Bogans isn't exactly the most potent threat for him to cover at his own position. As a starting guard last season, in 28 minutes a game Jack averaged 12-5 on 45 % so he's no slouch. Then we have the backups. Jerryd Bayless vs Jimmer Fredette. Another machup we feel that is a pretty big advantage for us. We have a guard on our bench who could be starting who is extremely quick and explosive against a rookie PG who’s biggest question was fast enough to play defense in the NBA. We feel Bayless will be too fast for Fredette to handle and should be able to provide a big scoring spark for us here. Overall the difference between Bayless and Fredette (since he is an unproven rookie) is more than Billups and Jack which gives us the advantage here.

a) You should consider TS%, not just FG%.
b) That logic is brutally misleading and arguably false. Because a bench PG is better than ihs opposing bench PG, it can cancel out, or even swing the starters advantage in your favor? How many minutes are the backups playing to swing the pendulum so much? Your logic assumes they are getting equal PT...

tyfreaks brotha
07-26-2011, 12:40 PM
I was going with the Nets untill I read Roshan's writeup. That's how good it was

PocketKings
07-26-2011, 01:29 PM
The Knicks have 8 votes of posters with less than 100 posts and the Nets have only 1 of those votes.

Making it 42-41 with the Knicks holding the slight edge!

MacFitz92
07-26-2011, 01:48 PM
I just don't see how the Knicks would contain Dirk and Wade. I think Camby and AK47 do a better job on Dwight and Melo, than CV and Bogans do on Wade and Dirk. Not to mention Dirk and Wade are better scorers than Dwight and Melo.

jimbobjarree
07-26-2011, 02:03 PM
I don't need to read a writeup to look at two teams and have an opinion. The Nets are the better team. Period. And they would win this series.

I love Dwight, but Melo is one of the most overrated players I've ever watched, extremely inefficient, and I like Kirilenko on him. And their starting lineup has Villanueva in it. I don't care what stats you show me about their head to head matchups. You know what that doesn't take into consideration? The postseason.

And while I'm not super impressed with either bench, Jimmer Fredette as your backup point guard in the playoffs does you no favors, especially starting a 34-year-old Chauncey, whose minutes have decreased the last few seasons and who dealt with injury concerns in his last postseason.

The mismatch of Dirk alone gives the Nets this one in my eyes. There is no one on that roster capable of defending him, unless you pull Dwight away from the basket, and that's a horrible idea with Wade on the floor.

Nets in 6.

exactly. The Knicks have a strong team, but I just see no way they'd beat us in real life. A combination of half of New York voting for the Knicks, and me being penalized for not having as much time on my hands as Rosh to write an essay of a write up.

Where are all the Nets fans at!

Joshtd1
07-26-2011, 02:05 PM
I dont understand the love that Billups is getting here. For the "clear or huge" advantage he has, he averages 17 PPG on 37% shooting for his career against Jack, who has averaged 12 PPG on 44%.

In their last 4 matchups, since Roshy likes to do this..Billups at 16.3 on 30 % shooting while Jack is at 13.5 PPG on 41%. Yes...huge advantage there.

As for Wade being guarded by Bogans? Please..we know that Brewer is the main culprit who did the best job on Wade in the playoffs. Bogans averaged what..19 mins a game? Thats not enough time to limit Wade that much. But if thats the case, then Wade eats him up for his whole career. 25 PPG on 51% shooting.

Last 4 games for Dirk..30.3 PPG on 49% shooting. CV...11.8 PPG on 44% shooting.

I still feel we have the biggest mismatches, and their worst starters are our strong points.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-26-2011, 02:09 PM
Initially I was leaning towards Nets but the Knicks writeup is so much better. Dwight would feast on Camby/Diop/Miller. Dirk would feast on CV. Melo would feast on AK. Wade would feast on Bogans. There are mismatches all over the place. With Dwight being the best help defender in the series I'm now torn.

This. Ended up going with the Knicks because of the writeup.

CHANGO
07-26-2011, 02:09 PM
I just don't see how the Knicks would contain Dirk and Wade. I think Camby and AK47 do a better job on Dwight and Melo, than CV and Bogans do on Wade and Dirk. Not to mention Dirk and Wade are better scorers than Dwight and Melo.

This...

AK47 is a good defender, Camby too... In the other hand, Dirk would eat Charlie Vi and Bogan can't do much with Wade.

mightybosstone
07-26-2011, 02:39 PM
I'm a little shocked that the Knicks are leading this. I'm not saying they didn't build a good team, but the Nets are the better defensive team and have the better clutch players. If you have two minutes left and you have to get a basket, would you rather have Dirk and Wade or Melo and Dwight? I'll take the former and I wouldn't think twice about it.

I'm also not as in love with the writeup as everyone else is. So players performed well in a few recent performances against their matchup? That's a small sample size and it's in the regular season. That proves nothing. This is a different team in different circumstances with a different team defense. Dirk would run Villanueva out of the building and I don't think Melo puts up those numbers against this Nets' defense.

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 02:58 PM
Official count is now 44-43, Knicks up by one

pebloemer
07-26-2011, 03:00 PM
I'm a little shocked that the Knicks are leading this. I'm not saying they didn't build a good team, but the Nets are the better defensive team and have the better clutch players. If you have two minutes left and you have to get a basket, would you rather have Dirk and Wade or Melo and Dwight? I'll take the former and I wouldn't think twice about it.

I'm also not as in love with the writeup as everyone else is. So players performed well in a few recent performances against their matchup? That's a small sample size and it's in the regular season. That proves nothing. This is a different team in different circumstances with a different team defense. Dirk would run Villanueva out of the building and I don't think Melo puts up those numbers against this Nets' defense.

The Nets defense looks perfectly adequate, but it isn't spectacular by any stretch of the imagination. I don't see where Melo will have so many problems. I think he has proven in his career that he is one of the most gifted, versatile and clutch scorers in the league.

Knicks on the other hand have the biggest defensive X-factor in the league on their team. Dirk and Wade can score well from outside, Wade's biggest strength is driving the lane. Bogans may not be able to stop that, but team defense can be a huge impact there. In the concept of team defense, Dwight makes other defenders on his team better defensively in a way that no other player can match. Look at Orlando's individual defenders.

jimbobjarree
07-26-2011, 03:04 PM
yeah but your discounting the offensive output of the defender (ak/bogans). AK is good for 10/12ppg, where as Bogans is good for a 3 pointer. In the Wade-Bogans all time match up Wade averages 25 while Bogans averages 5. The Melo-AK match up Melo goes for 25, but AK still puts up 11. I don't see how they beat us on the wings.

And nothing is stopping Dirk, did you not watch the playoffs? I'm sure he's gunna have hella more fun out there than Dwight, who we can just foul and send to the line anyway.

I just don't see it. Unless Billups is that great of an x factor?

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 03:06 PM
yeah but your discounting the offensive output of the defender (ak/bogans). AK is good for 10/12ppg, where as Bogans is good for a 3 pointer. In the Wade-Bogans all time match up Wade averages 25 while Bogans averages 5. The Melo-AK match up Melo goes for 25, but AK still puts up 11. I don't see how they beat us on the wings.

And nothing is stopping Dirk, did you not watch the playoffs? I'm sure he's gunna have hella more fun out there than Dwight, who we can just foul and send to the line anyway.

I just don't see it. Unless Billups is that great of an x factor?

Dwight's going to have that situation with Camby. He's going to have a big series offensively, and Camby won't do much if anything on the offensive end. And we at least have adequate backups who can score in Parker and Garcia

And with Dirk, Charlie has proven he can score. He's going to have a good amount of open looks with Dirk dominating in the paint and Melo taking advantage of AK.

Joshtd1
07-26-2011, 03:07 PM
So what happens if we put Dirk at center and force Dwight to guard him on the perimeter. Either Dirk is going to score at will, or Wade will have a free lane to the paint.

On defense we just double Dwight every time he gets it and make Melo beat us 1 on 1 vs AK, or we let Bogans beat us from the outside..

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 03:12 PM
So what happens if we put Dirk at center and force Dwight to guard him on the perimeter. Either Dirk is going to score at will, or Wade will have a free lane to the paint.

On defense we just double Dwight every time he gets it and make Melo beat us 1 on 1 vs AK, or we let Bogans beat us from the outside..

And if you put Dirk at center, then we'll just put Dwight on whoever your PF is. He's not going to be matched up against Dirk at any point in this series, just like Dirk won't be guarding Melo.

Both sound like pretty easy buckets to me :shrug: Possibly the best one on one player in the league and a solid shooter. If Bogans is off, in comes AParker or Garcia who can also shoot the ball well.

Joshtd1
07-26-2011, 03:16 PM
Dwight's going to have that situation with Camby. He's going to have a big series offensively, and Camby won't do much if anything on the offensive end. And we at least have adequate backups who can score in Parker and Garcia

And with Dirk, Charlie has proven he can score. He's going to have a good amount of open looks with Dirk dominating in the paint and Melo taking advantage of AK.

You reall think CV will score that much with Billups/Melo/Dwight all getting looks? I dont think CV would even average 10 a game in this series..

If Parker and Garcia are adequate scorers..so do we in Bayless/Gomes/Green. 25.1 PPG to 16.1. If you want to do 2 vs 2, Bayless and Green sill average 17.9 PPG between them..still better then Parker and Garcia. Our bench is better, but no one thinks so.

Joshtd1
07-26-2011, 03:18 PM
And if you put Dirk at center, then we'll just put Dwight on whoever your PF is. He's not going to be matched up against Dirk at any point in this series, just like Dirk won't be guarding Melo.

Both sound like pretty easy buckets to me :shrug: Possibly the best one on one player in the league and a solid shooter. If Bogans is off, in comes AParker or Garcia who can also shoot the ball well.

Thats what Im hoping for though. Put Dwight on AK, and AK stands on the outside. No help defense what so ever. We then have two guys who will be able to score at will.

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 03:20 PM
Thats what Im hoping for though. Put Dwight on AK, and AK stands on the outside. No help defense what so ever. We then have two guys who will be able to score at will.

What about the other side of the court? Dirk on Dwight is a disaster waiting to happen. Dirk gets in foul trouble, has to sit down and you bring in Gomes. Huge advantage for us then.

mightybosstone
07-26-2011, 03:21 PM
The Nets defense looks perfectly adequate, but it isn't spectacular by any stretch of the imagination. I don't see where Melo will have so many problems. I think he has proven in his career that he is one of the most gifted, versatile and clutch scorers in the league.
Gifted and versatile? Yes. Clutch? No. And he's one of the most inefficient "superstars" in the league. Sure, he'll give you 30 a night, but he's taking 25 shots in the process and he doesn't give you much defensively.
Kirilenko's length, IMO, causes problems for Melo on the perimeter, and I don't think it's as simple to say "Melo gives you 30 ppg" every night in this series.

Also, I think people are really selling Camby short. He may not play 35 minutes a night, but I think he provides a better defensive option against Dwight than 90 percent of the centers in the league. As long as opposing big men don't pull him out of the paint, he's fine, and no way does Dwight start taking 15-footers.


Knicks on the other hand have the biggest defensive X-factor in the league on their team. Dirk and Wade can score well from outside, Wade's biggest strength is driving the lane. Bogans may not be able to stop that, but team defense can be a huge impact there. In the concept of team defense, Dwight makes other defenders on his team better defensively in a way that no other player can match. Look at Orlando's individual defenders.
Dwight is certainly a terror, but you know what's more terrifying? A one-two punch of Wade and Dirk. Their games compliment each other so much better than Wade-Lebron, and I think Dwight's need to help out in the paint could just as easily put himself in foul trouble as it would cause problems for the Nets.

Dirk would drive past Villanueva so much on the dribble so easily. If I were the Knicks, I would have considered Charlie V for the 6th man and gone with a defensive 4 instead of going out and getting out guys like Garcia and Parker to fill out my bench. That would have given them versatility to start a defensive 4 in a matchup like this and start Charlie against poorer offensive 4s. Then again, I would have avoided Villanueva like the black plague to begin with...

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 03:22 PM
Wow this is complete ********. This isn't even the real Nets and this guy posted this in the Nets forum http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18657901&postcount=1

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 03:22 PM
No wonder the Nets got almost 9 votes in the matter of 2 minutes

Mile High Champ
07-26-2011, 03:23 PM
Dirk would drive past Villanueva so much on the dribble so easily. If I were the Knicks, I would have considered Charlie V for the 6th man and gone with a defensive 4 instead of going out and getting out guys like Garcia and Parker to fill out my bench. That would have given them versatility to start a defensive 4 in a matchup like this and start Charlie against poorer offensive 4s. Then again, I would have avoided Villanueva like the black plague to begin with...

I bet they would have done this but the Knicks acquired Dwight very late in the mock. I believe it was the 2nd last day of the event so there roster was already basically filled out.

Chacarron
07-26-2011, 03:26 PM
Wow this is complete ********. This isn't even the real Nets and this guy posted this in the Nets forum http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18657901&postcount=1

That is ****ing low.

ManRam
07-26-2011, 03:26 PM
Campaigning. :mad:


I deleted the thread.

knicks=love
07-26-2011, 03:26 PM
exactly. The Knicks have a strong team, but I just see no way they'd beat us in real life. A combination of half of New York voting for the Knicks, and me being penalized for not having as much time on my hands as Rosh to write an essay of a write up.

Where are all the Nets fans at!

don't make up ***** excuses. if you lose, you ****ing lose. deal with it.


Wow this is complete ********. This isn't even the real Nets and this guy posted this in the Nets forum http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18657901&postcount=1

WOWWWWWWWWWWW


knicks fan haven't even done that! and look at all the **** we get! :facepalm:

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 03:26 PM
The thread was deleted but the damage has been done. I'm now down 5 in the matter of minutes

ManRam
07-26-2011, 03:28 PM
Yeah. That's really ******.

Really, really ******. Hopefully the Knicks can bounce back.

phlp_bj
07-26-2011, 03:28 PM
intense. fight to the finish

ManRam
07-26-2011, 03:29 PM
The Nets GM's weren't involved in that, and the guy who did it was unclear of the rules...

Oh well :shrug:

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 03:29 PM
intense. fight to the finish

Nope, I'm down 5. 100 posts rule

jimbobjarree
07-26-2011, 03:29 PM
thanks rammer. I want it made clear me or josh didn't know anything about that thread. If we cant win fair, then whats the point?

Chill_Will_24
07-26-2011, 03:31 PM
I sincerely apologize. I didnt know i was violating rules. Cant the votes be deleted by a mod?

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 03:31 PM
thanks rammer. I want it made clear me or josh didn't know anything about that thread. If we cant win fair, then whats the point?

Yeah I know you two didn't do anything. Just a really messed up thing to do by Chill Will

jimbobjarree
07-26-2011, 03:32 PM
don't make up ***** excuses. if you lose, you ****ing lose. deal with it.

I'd be the first one congratulating Rosh, don't you worry.

Dont get the need for the expletives?

rapjuicer06
07-26-2011, 03:32 PM
nvm

jimbobjarree
07-26-2011, 03:32 PM
Yeah I know you two didn't do anything. Just a really messed up thing to do by Chill Will

maybe it was my fault when I said 'where are all the nets fans at?'

I'm hitting the pub now, so good luck the rest of the way.

Joshtd1
07-26-2011, 03:33 PM
What about the other side of the court? Dirk on Dwight is a disaster waiting to happen. Dirk gets in foul trouble, has to sit down and you bring in Gomes. Huge advantage for us then.

It is, but thats why we would double him every time he got the ball. No reason to let Dirk play Dwight 1 on 1. Dwight is turnover prone too. Yes he's gotten better, but a constant double team and he has to kick it out. If he forces anything he will draw an offensive foul, or take a tough shot.

knicks=love
07-26-2011, 03:33 PM
I'd be the first one congratulating Rosh, don't you worry.

Dont get the need for the expletives?

it just seemed like you were coming up with excuses. i kinda take this comment back after the whole thread in the nets forum thing. my bad man.

Chill_Will_24
07-26-2011, 03:34 PM
The Knicks are still winning by one so while what i did was idiotic at least it was stopped before it could get really bad. I was confused by someone earlier sayin "where the Nets fans at?"

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 03:34 PM
Nets should be DQ'd for that, thats ridiculous

The Nets GMs didn't do anything wrong. Chill Will did it, and he has nothing to do with the Mock so they can't really be penalized. I mean he didn't understand what this thread was about but the damage has been done, so...

phlp_bj
07-26-2011, 03:35 PM
Nope, I'm down 5. 100 posts rule

still not that far off

Joshtd1
07-26-2011, 03:35 PM
Nets should be DQ'd for that, thats ridiculous

Why should we be DQ'd for something we had no part of? Really? I know you don't like our team for whatever reason but get real.

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 03:35 PM
The Knicks are still winning by one so while what i did was idiotic at least it was stopped before it could get really bad. I was confused by someone earlier sayin "where the Nets fans at?"

Nah, we're down by 4 now. There's a rule that states that votes by posters with less than 100 posts won't count

rapjuicer06
07-26-2011, 03:38 PM
obviously people didn't see me edit it and say nvm...but keep quoting it, you will eventually see it

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 03:41 PM
46-51 now

Jetsguy
07-26-2011, 03:41 PM
Two great teams, I voted Knicks, I just think Dwight and Melo can not be stopped

pebloemer
07-26-2011, 03:45 PM
Gifted and versatile? Yes. Clutch? No. And he's one of the most inefficient "superstars" in the league. Sure, he'll give you 30 a night, but he's taking 25 shots in the process and he doesn't give you much defensively.
Kirilenko's length, IMO, causes problems for Melo on the perimeter, and I don't think it's as simple to say "Melo gives you 30 ppg" every night in this series.

Also, I think people are really selling Camby short. He may not play 35 minutes a night, but I think he provides a better defensive option against Dwight than 90 percent of the centers in the league. As long as opposing big men don't pull him out of the paint, he's fine, and no way does Dwight start taking 15-footers.


Dwight is certainly a terror, but you know what's more terrifying? A one-two punch of Wade and Dirk. Their games compliment each other so much better than Wade-Lebron, and I think Dwight's need to help out in the paint could just as easily put himself in foul trouble as it would cause problems for the Nets.

Dirk would drive past Villanueva so much on the dribble so easily. If I were the Knicks, I would have considered Charlie V for the 6th man and gone with a defensive 4 instead of going out and getting out guys like Garcia and Parker to fill out my bench. That would have given them versatility to start a defensive 4 in a matchup like this and start Charlie against poorer offensive 4s. Then again, I would have avoided Villanueva like the black plague to begin with...

I surprised you are adamant that Carmelo isn't clutch. I remember threads discussing whether he is the most clutch in the NBA just a couple months back:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=610155&page=4

That's not my specific claim, but at the very least, you'd have to admit that him being clutch is arguably a fact.

Camby is a smart defensive player, who possesses the length to do a good job on Dwight defensively. I'd agree there. But he doesn't have the strength or athleticism to legitimately compete with Dwight on the boards. Dirk isn't the greatest rebounder to provide help in that manner either. Camby is adequate in the midrange, but his offensive repetoire leaves Dwight room to provide help. Dwight could get in foul trouble providing so much help for Wade, but I'm sure there will be plenty of changed shots, blocked shots and forced turnovers due to his presence. I'll give the best C and best defensive player in the league the benefit of the doubt there.

Dirk/Wade is an excellent compliment. Whether it is better than Wade/LeBron is completely irrelevent though. How it stacks up with Dwight/Melo certainly is. Also an incredible compliment. Due to Dwight's defensive impact, I'll call it equally terrifying.

Charlie V isn't great. He'll stretch the floor a bit offensively, but that's it. I'll agree the Knicks could have done a much better job making a better defensive supporting cast. They have plenty of shooters to spread the floor (much like Orlando), and Dwight will garner attention down low to free up space on the perimeter, but defensively they would benefit from more pieces. But the Nets defense really doesn't do much for me as a whole either. Wade is an excellent defender, but he doesn't have the size, or play the position to have near the impact that Dwight will. Kirilenko is a nice defensive player, but hardly a stopper. Durability is also a legit question with him too. I have alreayd covered Camby. Jack and Bayless are very average defensively. And Dirk has his limitations on that end of the court.

coryd238
07-26-2011, 03:55 PM
Gifted and versatile? Yes. Clutch? No. And he's one of the most inefficient "superstars" in the league. Sure, he'll give you 30 a night, but he's taking 25 shots in the process and he doesn't give you much defensively.
Kirilenko's length, IMO, causes problems for Melo on the perimeter, and I don't think it's as simple to say "Melo gives you 30 ppg" every night in this series.

Also, I think people are really selling Camby short. He may not play 35 minutes a night, but I think he provides a better defensive option against Dwight than 90 percent of the centers in the league. As long as opposing big men don't pull him out of the paint, he's fine, and no way does Dwight start taking 15-footers.


Dwight is certainly a terror, but you know what's more terrifying? A one-two punch of Wade and Dirk. Their games compliment each other so much better than Wade-Lebron, and I think Dwight's need to help out in the paint could just as easily put himself in foul trouble as it would cause problems for the Nets.

Dirk would drive past Villanueva so much on the dribble so easily. If I were the Knicks, I would have considered Charlie V for the 6th man and gone with a defensive 4 instead of going out and getting out guys like Garcia and Parker to fill out my bench. That would have given them versatility to start a defensive 4 in a matchup like this and start Charlie against poorer offensive 4s. Then again, I would have avoided Villanueva like the black plague to begin with...

Efficiency is a joke. Say he takes 25 shots, but makes 13. That's the same as shooting 20 shots, and going to the freethrow line 10 times. My god. Foul trouble doesn't come in to effect THAT much, so it doesn't matter as much as people make it out to matter.

rapjuicer06
07-26-2011, 04:01 PM
Efficiency is a joke. Say he takes 25 shots, but makes 13. That's the same as shooting 20 shots, and going to the freethrow line 10 times. My god. Foul trouble doesn't come in to effect THAT much, so it doesn't matter as much as people make it out to matter.

Foul trouble with Dwight does too come into effect quite a bit actually. It completely hampers his game and takes a toll on him mentally

Lil Half Dead
07-26-2011, 04:04 PM
Efficiency is a joke. Say he takes 25 shots, but makes 13. That's the same as shooting 20 shots, and going to the freethrow line 10 times. My god. Foul trouble doesn't come in to effect THAT much, so it doesn't matter as much as people make it out to matter.

:laugh2: Are you talking about Dwight Howard? If you are this is pretty funny.

roshan3ai
07-26-2011, 04:09 PM
Down 6 with 4 1/2 hours left.

coryd238
07-26-2011, 04:09 PM
:laugh2: Are you talking about Dwight Howard? If you are this is pretty funny.

I'm talking about Melo. Yeah, fouls come into affect more on inside players, but it doesn't affect perimeter players as much.

Even if you get fouled, you're still TAKING the shot. It just doesn't count towards the stat line. It's the same thing as making a shot, but not getting fouled. Why people actually try to use that as an argument against perimeter players is beyond me.

Catfish1314
07-26-2011, 04:28 PM
Like before, I read both write-ups and most of the posts from both Nets and Knicks GMs. Great match-up, but I'll go Nets in 6 or 7.

Great job to rosh, Josh, and jimbob.

mightybosstone
07-26-2011, 04:37 PM
Camby is a smart defensive player, who possesses the length to do a good job on Dwight defensively. I'd agree there. But he doesn't have the strength or athleticism to legitimately compete with Dwight on the boards.
Ahem.... Camby's rebound rate last year: 24.1 (2nd in the league). Dwight's rebound rate last year: 21.8 (5th).


Dwight could get in foul trouble providing so much help for Wade, but I'm sure there will be plenty of changed shots, blocked shots and forced turnovers due to his presence. I'll give the best C and best defensive player in the league the benefit of the doubt there.
I'm not saying that Dwight won't win his fair share of matchups in the paint, but I think Dirk and Wade will win some of those as well. And we all know how much of an advantage a driving superstar has in the lane over a defender. If Dwight is a millisecond late getting over, he'll get into foul trouble in a hurry. And Dwight in foul trouble isn't exactly an uncommon occurence (9th in fouls per game, 1st in technicals)...


Dirk/Wade is an excellent compliment. Whether it is better than Wade/LeBron is completely irrelevent though. How it stacks up with Dwight/Melo certainly is. Also an incredible compliment. Due to Dwight's defensive impact, I'll call it equally terrifying.
I'll take the inside/outside terror offensively of Dirk/Wade over Dwight and Melo (who is a tremendously overrated outside shooter). And, no, Wade and Dirk cannot stack up to Dwight defensively, but as a team, the Nets have a better combination of defenders, IMO.


But the Nets defense really doesn't do much for me as a whole either. Wade is an excellent defender, but he doesn't have the size, or play the position to have near the impact that Dwight will. Kirilenko is a nice defensive player, but hardly a stopper. Durability is also a legit question with him too. I have alreayd covered Camby. Jack and Bayless are very average defensively. And Dirk has his limitations on that end of the court.
Kirilenko, Camby and Wade are all excellent help defenders and shot blockers. And Dirk and Jack are average to above average defenders at their positions (despite what people say about Dirk). And if we're talking durability, how about Chauncey? He's 34 and got hurt over the playoffs. And how about the fact that Villanueva played 22 minutes a game last season?

VCaintdead17
07-26-2011, 04:50 PM
Billups could be be a game changer for sure. Still not sure who I wanna vote for yet.

uprightciti
07-26-2011, 05:09 PM
wow i would say knicks because howard would destroy camby and melo would destroy ak-47

Green_Monster
07-26-2011, 05:53 PM
I voted for the Nets, I think Wade would play a huge factor and be running all over Bogans, Its gonna be close!

greg_ory_2005
07-26-2011, 06:15 PM
I'll go with the Nets. Bogans is a good defender, but there isn't anyone else even close to defender Wade. Dirk will also abuse anyone the Knicks put on him.

KnicksorBust
07-26-2011, 06:21 PM
To be honest this was the ECF for me. Both these teams are phenomenal. After a lot of thought, probably too much, I'm going Nets. In a series this close, things like homecourt advantage, having a better bench, and having the better game closer become more relevant and the Nets hit those checkmarks. I would have loved if the Nets elaborated on how turnover prone Dwight can be but they didn't. Props to Rosh for doing the better writeup but in the end it wasn't enough for me to change my vote. Nets would win this series.

Joshtd1
07-26-2011, 06:42 PM
To be honest this was the ECF for me. Both these teams are phenomenal. After a lot of thought, probably too much, I'm going Nets. In a series this close, things like homecourt advantage, having a better bench, and having the better game closer become more relevant and the Nets hit those checkmarks. I would have loved if the Nets elaborated on how turnover prone Dwight can be but they didn't. Props to Rosh for doing the better writeup but in the end it wasn't enough for me to change my vote. Nets would win this series.


It is, but thats why we would double him every time he got the ball. No reason to let Dirk play Dwight 1 on 1. Dwight is turnover prone too. Yes he's gotten better, but a constant double team and he has to kick it out. If he forces anything he will draw an offensive foul, or take a tough shot.

:smoking:

I did mention it a bit back, I just didn't include it in the writeup I made..the one I forgot to send last night before the matchup :(

KnicksorBust
07-26-2011, 06:48 PM
:smoking:

I did mention it a bit back, I just didn't include it in the writeup I made..the one I forgot to send last night before the matchup :(

I actually saw that Josh but you can be more specific. For example, a lot of people look at that Hawks series as a demonstration of his growth but nobody realizes how many turnovers he was getting in those games as well. It's outrageous.

pebloemer
07-26-2011, 08:04 PM
Ahem.... Camby's rebound rate last year: 24.1 (2nd in the league). Dwight's rebound rate last year: 21.8 (5th). That is astonishingly higher than I realized. His rebound rate also actually has gone up as he has gotten older. I'll concede this point without bothering to argue it. I wonder allowed if he gets some benefits from the attention Aldridge gets in the paint, but nonetheless it is impressive.

But I have to say Dwight maintaining his rebounding rate over the additional 10MPG he plays carries a greater overall impact on the game. But you are right, it appears Camby can hold his own (and he has done so head to head).


I'm not saying that Dwight won't win his fair share of matchups in the paint, but I think Dirk and Wade will win some of those as well. And we all know how much of an advantage a driving superstar has in the lane over a defender. If Dwight is a millisecond late getting over, he'll get into foul trouble in a hurry. And Dwight in foul trouble isn't exactly an uncommon occurence (9th in fouls per game, 1st in technicals)...

I think what makes Dwight so special defensively is his ability to show up a millisecond late and still make the play due to his size and athleticism. Against Wade.. of course it is more difficult. But I will add that Wade shot 42% against Orlando's defense this past season, averaging 4 points less than his yearly PPG average. Howard fouled out one game (he also has LeBron driving on him), but only averaged 3.25 fouls per game against possible the two best slashers alive. It is a small sample size, but not much smaller than you average playoff series.


I'll take the inside/outside terror offensively of Dirk/Wade over Dwight and Melo (who is a tremendously overrated outside shooter). And, no, Wade and Dirk cannot stack up to Dwight defensively, but as a team, the Nets have a better combination of defenders, IMO.

I do not think the Nets combination of defenders carry the same impact defensively as Dwight. There are some good defenders there, but Dwight consistently carries Orlando as a Top 5 defensive team in the league, year after year, with supporting casts of Ryan Anderson, Hedo Turkoglu, Jameer Nelson, JJ Redick, Jason Richardson, Vince Carter, Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas.... etc etc. I don't think the supporting casts he's had over the past couple years are any better defensively than the mock-offseason supporting cast that the Knicks GM assembled here.


Kirilenko, Camby and Wade are all excellent help defenders and shot blockers. And Dirk and Jack are average to above average defenders at their positions (despite what people say about Dirk). And if we're talking durability, how about Chauncey? He's 34 and got hurt over the playoffs. And how about the fact that Villanueva played 22 minutes a game last season?

I'll disagree about Dirk and Jack being average to above average defensively. Jack is about average by my estimation. While Dirk's defense may get flogged too often, I would love to see an argument that he is average. There are 30 starting PF's in the NBA, would you care to name 15 that he is better than defensively?

I mention durability of Kirilenko, you mention durability of Chauncey, I'll mention durability of Camby. Shall we continue?