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1DROSE1
07-25-2011, 12:01 AM
This thread is about discussing what the top 10 list will look like in 20 years or so, using the past and presents players. Feel free to make realistic arguements. And I want to see your list.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. The Big O
4. Magic johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Bill Russel
8. Kobe or Lebron
9. Kobe or Lebron
10. Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, Julius

In my opinion Kobe and Lebron may surpass Russel and Wilt.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-25-2011, 12:10 AM
1. MJ
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Kareem
5. Bird
6. Magic
7. LeBron
8. Shaq
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe/Duncan

Raps18-19 Champ
07-25-2011, 12:10 AM
No Derrick Rose?

beasted86
07-25-2011, 12:14 AM
No Derrick Rose?

This, along with Landry Fields.

Nick O
07-25-2011, 12:22 AM
This, along with Landry Fields.

lol your already assuming Fields will be a top 10 player of all time....

naps
07-25-2011, 12:23 AM
Derrick Rose will finish #2 IMO and might as well challenge MJ for GOAT by the time he says goodbye.

Tony_Starks
07-25-2011, 12:25 AM
1-Magic
2-MJ
3-Kareem
4-Russell
5-Wilt
6-Shaq
7-Kobe
8-Duncan
9-Bird
10-Lebron

MiamiWadeCounty
07-25-2011, 12:31 AM
1. Jordan
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Larry
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. Lebron

1DROSE1
07-25-2011, 12:58 AM
1. Jordan
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Larry
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. Lebron
Thanks for not being bias about lebron or wade over Kobe.

tredigs
07-25-2011, 12:58 AM
I could see:

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Lebron
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem

And potentially a kid or two in 6th grade right now.

Edit: Forget Bird in there. These lists are tough.

Hellcrooner
07-25-2011, 01:11 AM
1 African country dude with freak athleticism developed form ages 12 to 20 somwhere in europe where he gets deadly fundamentals , iq and shooting.

2..............does not matter.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-25-2011, 01:16 AM
1 African country dude with freak athleticism developed form ages 12 to 20 somwhere in europe where he gets deadly fundamentals , iq and shooting.


The best basketball player in the future will be a young person from a country in Africa who is an athletic freak that will develop his game in Europe between the ages of 12-20 where he will improve in terms of fundamentals, basketball IQ and shooting.


I translated in to proper English for you. You're welcome.

naps
07-25-2011, 01:18 AM
The best basketball player in the future will be a young person from a country in Africa who is an athletic freak that will develop his game in Europe between the ages of 12-20 where he will improve in terms of fundamentals, basketball IQ and shooting.


I translated in to proper English for you. You're welcome.

:p

Give him a break. His first language is not English. Sometime it's tough to read him but we can understand what he tries to say most of the time.

THE MTL
07-25-2011, 01:20 AM
I would put Kobe and Lebron on that list.

THE MTL
07-25-2011, 01:22 AM
:p

Give him a break. His first language is not English. Sometime it's tough to read him but we can understand what he tries to say most of the time.

I wouldnt give the guy a break. The comment was very sarcastic and if ur going to "that guy" then you should at least say it the right way.

1DROSE1
07-25-2011, 01:22 AM
Duncan and Shaq are both amazing players, buy c'mon Kobe will eventually past both of them. He is arguably better than duncan already.

Tony_Starks
07-25-2011, 01:23 AM
I could see:

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Lebron
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem

And potentially a kid or two in 6th grade right now.

Edit: Forget Bird in there. These lists are tough.


Im just curious as to what makes you think the general basketball community will eventually rank Lebron that high? Like it or not his teaming up with Wade and Bosh made his legacy suffer a pretty huge hit. Im not talking fans, Im talking players and so called experts. In order to really get up there in the conversation with guys that led their teams to multiple rings I would think he'd have to get about 5. Had he stayed in CLE 1 or 2 rings would've been equivalent to multiples in MIA is the general perception.....

Youmad?
07-25-2011, 01:24 AM
When Kobe, Lebron,rose,Dwight Paul etc. Retire

It will be

1.MJ
2.KB
3.KAJ
4.MAGIC
5.WC
6.BR
7.LB
8.Shaq
9.TD
10.LBJ/THE DREAM

Youmad?
07-25-2011, 01:25 AM
I could see:

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Lebron
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem

And potentially a kid or two in 6th grade right now.



Edit: Forget Bird in there. These lists are tough.

Lol Lebron #6 hahaha

Youmad?
07-25-2011, 01:27 AM
Duncan and Shaq are both amazing players, buy c'mon Kobe will eventually past both of them. He is arguably better than duncan already.

I came to the point where I know psd doesn't like Kobe too much

tredigs
07-25-2011, 01:30 AM
Im just curious as to what makes you think the general basketball community will eventually rank Lebron that high? Like it or not his teaming up with Wade and Bosh made his legacy suffer a pretty huge hit. Im not talking fans, Im talking players and so called experts. In order to really get up there in the conversation with guys that led their teams to multiple rings I would think he'd have to get about 5. Had he stayed in CLE 1 or 2 rings would've been equivalent to multiples in MIA is the general perception.....

Meh - the stars weren't coming to him in Cleveland, and his coach was a mess, that much was clear. Virtually every player on that list played with a top player in the NBA, and most played with multiple Hall of Famers.

If Lebron continues to dominate and eventually has a great final(s), which I think is probably inevitable given his skill level and the fact that it's likely nobody is beating them any time soon in the East, people will largely forget "The Decision" and focus on his play. Which is flat out some of the best we've seen in this league.



Lol Lebron #6 hahaha

I'd spell out my reasoning for you, but you'll be banned by Wednesday. No point.

Hellcrooner
07-25-2011, 01:34 AM
I wouldnt give the guy a break. The comment was very sarcastic and if ur going to "that guy" then you should at least say it the right way.

it wasnt sarcastic at ALL.

jsut realistic.

Ncaa is not focusing in Fundamentals nowdays, just in athleticism.
Europeans Dont posses the athleticism so they provide shooting and fundamentals so their players are competitive.


Lately many european teams are bringing very young africans to develop here ( ibaka for example).

Ibaka left europe a bit too soon when his training wa s incomplete tough.

Anyway what im talking bout is in the next 10 years some player from africa will appear that will basically have

Dwights Body, Dirks Shooting and perimenter game, Paus Post game and Iq and Dirk/paus fundamentals.

Unstopable

BrokenAnkles
07-25-2011, 02:05 AM
1. MJ
2. Wilt
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Kobe
6. Russell
7. Lebron
8. Shaq
9. Bird
10. Mikan

knightstemplar
07-25-2011, 02:10 AM
it would stay the same probally

lebron winning a ring or two with wade isnt gonna bump any alltime great off the list

LA_Raiders
07-25-2011, 02:55 AM
lol, we will see

Raps18-19 Champ
07-25-2011, 03:03 AM
it wasnt sarcastic at ALL.

jsut realistic.

Ncaa is not focusing in Fundamentals nowdays, just in athleticism.
Europeans Dont posses the athleticism so they provide shooting and fundamentals so their players are competitive.


Lately many european teams are bringing very young africans to develop here ( ibaka for example).

Ibaka left europe a bit too soon when his training wa s incomplete tough.

Anyway what im talking bout is in the next 10 years some player from africa will appear that will basically have

Dwights Body, Dirks Shooting and perimenter game, Paus Post game and Iq and Dirk/paus fundamentals.

Unstopable

Try Dwight' body, Dirk' shooting and perimeter game, Al Jefferson's post game and Tim Duncan's fundamentals.

Why does it always have to include Pau?

Raps18-19 Champ
07-25-2011, 03:05 AM
it would stay the same probally

lebron winning a ring or two with wade isnt gonna bump any alltime great off the list

Not even if Lebron carries the team?

THE GIPPER
07-25-2011, 03:35 AM
I could see lebron ending up top 4.

THE GIPPER
07-25-2011, 03:37 AM
it would stay the same probally

lebron winning a ring or two with wade isnt gonna bump any alltime great off the list

Why? Kobe winning 3 with Shaq helped his all time ranking and he wasnt even the best player on the team whereas Lebron is.

Hellcrooner
07-25-2011, 03:40 AM
Try Dwight' body, Dirk' shooting and perimeter game, Al Jefferson's post game and Tim Duncan's fundamentals.

Why does it always have to include Pau?

and why not?
and btw paus post game is better than overated jeffersons.

NYtilIdie
07-25-2011, 03:46 AM
Try Dwight' body, Dirk' shooting and perimeter game, Al Jefferson's post game and Tim Duncan's fundamentals.

Why does it always have to include Pau?

Remember who you're talking to here, then it will all make sense.

knightstemplar
07-25-2011, 03:50 AM
Why? Kobe winning 3 with Shaq helped his all time ranking and he wasnt even the best player on the team whereas Lebron is.

then he won 2 without him
nobody had kobe in the top 10 with 3 rings, with 5, with the 2 "by himself" hes top 10

Raph12
07-25-2011, 04:52 AM
1: MJ
2-to-Infinite: Who cares

NYKalltheway
07-25-2011, 05:16 AM
I wonder why Lebron becomes Top 10 while Oscar Robertson isn't on anyone's list....

sheba021
07-25-2011, 06:14 AM
It will probably be the same as it was 10 years ago. MJ imitator and Mr. Plow are hardly going to change it. Durant perhaps, if he does something relevant in his career but that's about it.

NYKalltheway
07-25-2011, 10:02 AM
I also wonder why Dr J, who is the "original MJ", does not feature in anyone's Top 10 lists

LakersIn5
07-25-2011, 11:52 AM
1. jordan
2. kareem
3. wilt/kobe
4. kobe/wilt
5. magic
6. russell
7. bird
8. lebron
9. shaq
10. duncan

lebrons talent alone puts him in the top 10... even if he doesnt win alot of rings he is still that TALENTED!

Hawkeye15
07-25-2011, 11:59 AM
total speculation obviously, since in 20 years there may be another kid out there now who develops into a monster

MJ
Kareem
Magic
LeBron
Bird
Russell
Hakeem
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan

Hawkeye15
07-25-2011, 12:00 PM
I also wonder why Dr J, who is the "original MJ", does not feature in anyone's Top 10 lists

Dr J was not a top 10 player man

Missing56&33
07-25-2011, 12:06 PM
1. Micheal Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Kobe Bryant
7. Julius Erving
8. Bill Russell
9. Shaq
10. Tim Duncan

still1ballin
07-25-2011, 12:09 PM
total speculation obviously, since in 20 years there may be another kid out there now who develops into a monster

MJ
Kareem
Magic
LeBron
Bird
Russell
Hakeem
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan

:confused:

NYKalltheway
07-25-2011, 12:20 PM
Dr J was not a top 10 player man

Many people disagree with that.

I can argue that in 1985 the Top 10 looked like this:

1) Kareem - Wilt - Oscar - Russell (interchangeable)
5) Julius Erving - Magic
7) Larry Bird
8) Havlicek - West - Mikan - Cousy including others for the running of some places from 8th to 10th, guys like Gervin, Earl Monroe, Walt Frazier, Moses Malone...

The "hype" for Julius Erving was huge. Until Magic Johnson came to the picture and piled up the championships in style.
Also Oscar Robertson was viewed by most people as the #1 player. I'd hesitate him to include him in my top 5, but there's room for him in my top 10. I can see why people say that Lebron can be in the top 10 if they also include Oscar Robertson there. If not, then Lebron has no room in a top 10 unless he wins 4 in a trot. Which still won't be 100% catalyst for him making the top 10 ever(we are talking about top 10 ever, not some lame list) since there's also Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh who were all stars, while Wade is a top 3-5 player as well. Not many had such teammates, especially at a time where there's more teams and less concentrated depth. You can argue that the Celtics were stacked, but they faced at least 4-5 other stacked teams back then. In the recent NBA, there's not more than 2-3 great teams in most seasons since there's 30 teams and there's almost a star in each of them. Some have 2, some are lucky to have a 3rd, but it's rare. Lebron needs to do a lot more than simply win championships with the Heat in order to become a legit top 10 guy. His stats show that he's on the way for that list though...


P.S:

People didn't view Michael Jordan as a threat to Magic's legacy, they were more rivals than that. On the contrary, Michael Jordan's emergence was viewed as the next coming of Julius Erving, a more complete player. You can't argue that Dr J isn't a top 10-15 player

Hawkeye15
07-25-2011, 12:21 PM
:confused:

obviously nearly every Laker fan will be confused as to why I think LeBron will finish ahead of Kobe, but I think I have made it clear that I personally think LeBron will be an all time great due to his pure dominance he has shown, and he has already had at least 3 seasons that were stronger than Bryant ever put forth. He has also sustained a level of play that will put him above the rest of the guys I put him ahead, but my ranking of him is condusive upon him sustaining this level of play for another 4-5 years at least, plus added accolades, awards, all NBA teams, etc. Winning a ring or two is the cherry on top obviously.

I understand many LeBron haters won't agree with any of this, but there are plenty that will.

Hawkeye15
07-25-2011, 12:26 PM
Many people disagree with that.

I can argue that in 1985 the Top 10 looked like this:

1) Kareem - Wilt - Oscar - Russell (interchangeable)
5) Julius Erving - Magic
7) Larry Bird
8) Havlicek - West - Mikan - Cousy including others for the running of some places from 8th to 10th, guys like Gervin, Earl Monroe, Walt Frazier, Moses Malone...

The "hype" for Julius Erving was huge. Until Magic Johnson came to the picture and piled up the championships in style.
Also Oscar Robertson was viewed by most people as the #1 player. I'd hesitate him to include him in my top 5, but there's room for him in my top 10. I can see why people say that Lebron can be in the top 10 if they also include Oscar Robertson there. If not, then Lebron has no room in a top 10 unless he wins 4 in a trot. Which still won't be 100% catalyst for him making the top 10 ever(we are talking about top 10 ever, not some lame list) since there's also Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh who were all stars, while Wade is a top 3-5 player as well. Not many had such teammates, especially at a time where there's more teams and less concentrated depth. You can argue that the Celtics were stacked, but they faced at least 4-5 other stacked teams back then. In the recent NBA, there's not more than 2-3 great teams in most seasons since there's 30 teams and there's almost a star in each of them. Some have 2, some are lucky to have a 3rd, but it's rare. Lebron needs to do a lot more than simply win championships with the Heat in order to become a legit top 10 guy. His stats show that he's on the way for that list though...

I wasn't stating my opinion as fact, I apologize if it came off that way. Its my subjective opinion that Dr. J is not a top 10 player.

I could care less about roster support or chips in comparison to the individuals level of play against peers, and their statistics measured against the other greats. Winning a ring has more to do with being in the right place at the right time on the right team than it ever does about an individuals basketball skills. Hell in his one championship playoff run, he didn't even play at a high level at all.

Dr J was a great player, but he is not in my top 10 list. Neither is Bron currently, but this is a list made down the line. I don't see how LeBron is left out after his career is complete unless he gets hit by a truck before the season starts.

naps
07-25-2011, 12:36 PM
and why not?
and btw paus post game is better than overated jeffersons.

When I read your posts Pau seems to be the most overrated player of all time. Why is that? Oh and European basketball as well.

naps
07-25-2011, 12:37 PM
I wonder why Lebron becomes Top 10 while Oscar Robertson isn't on anyone's list....

Because you need to read the thread title. This is a prediction thread.

NYKalltheway
07-25-2011, 12:43 PM
I get your point and I could agree but NBA history has shown us that hype is not the way to go.

I'll give you a small challenge. You are arguing that Lebron is the best player in the league, and I agree with that. We can't be sure if he's going to keep being the best, but he's on that track for at least the next 3 years unless something extraordinary happens.


The challenge is as follows:

In late 70s and early 80s, the hype was all about Kareem, Moses and Dr J (then Larry Bird, but in mid 80s).
Kareem is the only guy who stands at Top 3-5 in almost everyone's list, having won 6 MVP awards, but during Moses Malone's and Erving's prime he only won the award once, while Moses won it 3 times and Dr J once. The hype for those two was great. Now only a few rate them high enough while they say that Kobe is ahead of them for example.
Check the parity in 2000s for the MVP awards. It's evidence that there's no dominant players anymore. You can argue that the level has increased, but we all know that's not the case. So the players are not as dominant as in the past (check the MVP awards sheet, in older times it was guys winning at least 3 MVP awards in a row and then went of to become champions or at least finalists... You don't see that anymore. If the new generation(10 years from now) is similar to the 70s or 80s one, then we'd have 3-4 dominant players sharing the awards between them and leading their teams to championship finals.

Point?
History has "forgotten" how great and dominant Moses Malone and Julius Erving were. Same happened with guys like Willis Reed, Dave Cowens etc. They were great players, but not dominant enough in their era to win multiple awards and championships (x3). There was parity there as well. You don't see people claiming that McAdoo, Reed, Cowens, Alcindor, Unseld, Walton are top 10-20 guys. Plus, Nash winning two MVP awards doesn't give a nice case to the 2000s NBA talent level ;)

NYKalltheway
07-25-2011, 12:44 PM
Because you need to read the thread title. This is a prediction thread.

Erm.. I was saying that because Lebron is like the modern version of Oscar Robertson. If you say one is top 10, the other has to be with him as well, otherwise those who say it have no basis on putting Lebron in their top 10 (unless they assume he wins 4-5 rings)

theheatles
07-25-2011, 12:45 PM
1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Kareem Abdul Jabar
5. Shaquille O'neal
6. Magic Johnson
7. Tim Duncan
8. Hakeem Olaujuwon
9. Dwyane Wade
10. Larry Bird

naps
07-25-2011, 12:46 PM
In 20 years assuming LeBron wins multiples which he obviously should and may be another kid or two develop into something special. But here's what I think it would be by 2030.

MJ
LeBron
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Russell
Shaq
Bird
Hakeem
Duncan

naps
07-25-2011, 12:49 PM
Erm.. I was saying that because Lebron is like the modern version of Oscar Robertson. If you say one is top 10, the other has to be with him as well, otherwise those who say it have no basis on putting Lebron in their top 10 (unless they assume he wins 4-5 rings)

Of-course LeBron is not a top 10 now. This thread is all speculation. Oscars' resume is not strong enough to put in top 10. I mean he got great stats in a fast paced system and won only one title as a 2nd fiddle. I am not gonna go over all that. You might wanna visit those all time threads if interested.

Hawkeye15
07-25-2011, 12:51 PM
I get your point and I could agree but NBA history has shown us that hype is not the way to go.

I'll give you a small challenge. You are arguing that Lebron is the best player in the league, and I agree with that. We can't be sure if he's going to keep being the best, but he's on that track for at least the next 3 years unless something extraordinary happens.


The challenge is as follows:

In late 70s and early 80s, the hype was all about Kareem, Moses and Dr J (then Larry Bird, but in mid 80s).
Kareem is the only guy who stands at Top 3-5 in almost everyone's list, having won 6 MVP awards, but during Moses Malone's and Erving's prime he only won the award once, while Moses won it 3 times and Dr J once. The hype for those two was great. Now only a few rate them high enough while they say that Kobe is ahead of them for example.
Check the parity in 2000s for the MVP awards. It's evidence that there's no dominant players anymore. You can argue that the level has increased, but we all know that's not the case. So the players are not as dominant as in the past (check the MVP awards sheet, in older times it was guys winning at least 3 MVP awards in a row and then went of to become champions or at least finalists... You don't see that anymore. If the new generation(10 years from now) is similar to the 70s or 80s one, then we'd have 3-4 dominant players sharing the awards between them and leading their teams to championship finals.

Point?
History has "forgotten" how great and dominant Moses Malone and Julius Erving were. Same happened with guys like Willis Reed, Dave Cowens etc. They were great players, but not dominant enough in their era to win multiple awards and championships (x3). There was parity there as well. You don't see people claiming that McAdoo, Reed, Cowens, Alcindor, Unseld, Walton are top 10-20 guys. Plus, Nash winning two MVP awards doesn't give a nice case to the 2000s NBA talent level ;)


I have no issue with any of this. And my ranking of LeBron is predicated off the assumption I personally have that he will continue to be the undisputed best player in the NBA for another 3 years, totalling AT LEAST 5 years where intelligent basketball people understand he was the best. Its not hype necessarily. They also didn't have the tools of measurement we now possess back then. Fact is, LeBron has the statistics already to be a top 3-5 player. But he needs longevity, more awards, more all NBA teams, etc, and a ring or two will only help the case.

This is purely a prediction thread, so I don't really get why it needs to be explained further. I PREDICT LeBron won't get hurt, and will continue his dominance and that Miami will get the equation right.

DLeeicious
07-25-2011, 01:32 PM
No Derrick Rose?

The OP starts a thread and doesn't mention Rose, why would you post this? After 11,000 posts you thought this was a good idea to post still? Not only is it really not clever at all nor funny it probably (didn't read thread) started some sort of e-fight with Rose when the thread was never about him. You all complain about Rose threads and then make posts like this. Annoying.

WadeKobe
07-25-2011, 01:33 PM
I'm assuming the Heat win 3...

1) Michael Jordan
2) LeBron James
3) Jerry West
4) Wilt Chamberlain
5) Kareem Abdul-Jabar
6) Shaquille O'Neal
7) Magic Johnson
8) Tim Duncan
9) Larry Bird
10) Dwyane Wade


then I'd have...

11) Hakeem Olajuwan
12) Kobe Bryant
13) Bill Russell

I know, people are going to give me crap for LeBron and Wade and say I'm being a homer, but I think it will be objectively true.

With 4 rings, and 2 finals MVPs, Dwyane Wade will have as impressive of a resume as Kobe, but with much more impressive stats.

GhostfaceDrilla
07-25-2011, 01:44 PM
Until LeBron shows he can win the big game and come up big, he doesn't deserve to be near the top 10. Dirk was blasted for not winning a championship and was called a choker when statistically he is an all time great playoff performer. LeBron doesn't get special treatment.

GhostfaceDrilla
07-25-2011, 01:49 PM
I'm assuming the Heat win 3...

1) Michael Jordan
2) LeBron James
3) Jerry West
4) Wilt Chamberlain
5) Kareem Abdul-Jabar
6) Shaquille O'Neal
7) Magic Johnson
8) Tim Duncan
9) Dwyane Wade
10) Larry Bird


then I'd have...

11) Hakeem Olajuwan
12) Kobe Bryant
13) Bill Russell

I know, people are going to give me crap for LeBron and Wade and say I'm being a homer, but I think it will be objectively true.

With 4 rings, and 2 finals MVPs, Dwyane Wade will have as impressive of a resume as Kobe, but with much more impressive stats.

LMAO Wade over Bird, Olajuwon, Bryant and Russell. That is an epic fail. Wade is gonig to be in about the 25-30 range. And saying Wade has MUCH MORE impressive stats than Kobe is also homeristic.

Wade will never be better than Larry Bird. NEVER

DR_1
07-25-2011, 02:32 PM
1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Kobe
5. Shaq
6. Magic
7. Russell
8. Dwight
9. Bird
10. Dirk

DR_1
07-25-2011, 02:33 PM
LMAO Wade over Bird, Olajuwon, Bryant and Russell. That is an epic fail. Wade is gonig to be in about the 25-30 range. And saying Wade has MUCH MORE impressive stats than Kobe is also homeristic.

Wade will never be better than Larry Bird. NEVER

Don't even try to reason with this guy. He can't see past his Heat bias.

1DROSE1
07-25-2011, 02:51 PM
I consider Kevin durant and maybe even Derrick rose potentially just missing out the top 10. But they will certainly be in the top 20, once they reach there prime. Since there only 23 anyone agree?

Hawkeye15
07-25-2011, 02:55 PM
I consider Kevin durant and maybe even Derrick rose potentially just missing out the top 10. But they will certainly be in the top 20, once they reach there prime. Since there only 23 anyone agree?

I see no reason why its not possible.

Hawkeye15
07-25-2011, 02:57 PM
but, people do realize how hard it is to be a top 40-50 player ever, right? That means YEARS of sustained all star level play, being recognized for such, and having strong playoff series. Basically, Rose and Durant need about 8 more years of what they just did, if not better, with a nice decline.

Possible? Sure. Likely? History tells us probably not

Its that hard to be a top 50 player in a sport where thousands have played

still1ballin
07-25-2011, 03:02 PM
obviously nearly every Laker fan will be confused as to why I think LeBron will finish ahead of Kobe, but I think I have made it clear that I personally think LeBron will be an all time great due to his pure dominance he has shown, and he has already had at least 3 seasons that were stronger than Bryant ever put forth. He has also sustained a level of play that will put him above the rest of the guys I put him ahead, but my ranking of him is condusive upon him sustaining this level of play for another 4-5 years at least, plus added accolades, awards, all NBA teams, etc. Winning a ring or two is the cherry on top obviously.

I understand many LeBron haters won't agree with any of this, but there are plenty that will.

Lebron is gonna need at least 2-3 championships just to even be considered at #4. Even he does win them, it will probably hurt his reputation when considering him at #4 with the fact that he needed Bosh and Wade to win them. Look at players like Stockton, Malone and Barkley just to name a few. With a few championships under their belt they can move up on the rank easily. And its not that I am mad or shocked that you have Lebron over Kobe, its just a little shocking that you have Lebron over many other great players.

Hawkeye15
07-25-2011, 03:06 PM
Lebron is gonna need at least 2-3 championships just to even be considered at #4. Even he does win them, it will probably hurt his reputation when considering him at #4 with the fact that he needed Bosh and Wade to win them. Look at players like Stockton, Malone and Barkley just to name a few. With a few championships under their belt they can move up on the rank easily. And its not that I am mad or shocked that you have Lebron over Kobe, its just a little shocking that you have Lebron over many other great players.

Does Magic get hurt because he had a top 5 player ever on his team, something LeBron has never had, and most likely never will?

Double standards are uses all the time in sports.

Hawkeye15
07-25-2011, 03:08 PM
and I will restate it, Championships are indeed part of the equation in ranking all time greats, but to me personally, they carry less weight than the play of the individual. We are ranking individuals, not teams.

still1ballin
07-25-2011, 03:13 PM
Does Magic get hurt because he had a top 5 player ever on his team, something LeBron has never had, and most likely never will?

Double standards are uses all the time in sports.

Magic was drafted to a team that had a top 5 player. He has no control of that. Now, had Magic played with the Lakers and never won, and decided to go play with Bird and the Celtics, then his reputation would of taken a hit and probably would not be considered a top 5 player right now.

Now if Lebron wins a few championships, good for him, but he will be looked at that he needed a top 3 player and a top 3 PF in the NBA to win a championship. To be even considered #4, he needs to prove to everyone that he can close on the big stage and not dissappear and he has done in the past.

still1ballin
07-25-2011, 03:14 PM
and I will restate it, Championships are indeed part of the equation in ranking all time greats, but to me personally, they carry less weight than the play of the individual. We are ranking individuals, not teams.

In that case then individually people can say Karl Malone is better player than Tim Duncan. But look at the hardware. That is what puts Duncan over the top. Hardware holds a lot of value.

Hawkeye15
07-25-2011, 03:21 PM
In that case then individually people can say Karl Malone is better player than Tim Duncan. But look at the hardware. That is what puts Duncan over the top. Hardware holds a lot of value.

They could attempt to make a case, sure. Rings don't hold as much value as people think in my personal opinion. Hell anyone can win a ring if they are in the right spot at the right time. But hardly anyone can individually dominate a team sport for years.

Look, here is my theory. Not that its right or wrong. Fans of a player like Kobe, or Duncan for example, value rings as a measure of success because they are unknowingly biased to believing that in order to be the best, you must win rings (because their guy did, and this now allows them to rank their player above players that were clearly better individually). Now, fans of LeBron, or KG back in 2007 for instance (pre-ring), value the individual for what they have done, individually. If we are trying to rank individuals, we can't factor in team success at such a high rate. Otherwise, we are seriously limiting the pool in which we should be measuring, player wise.

Look, winning rings is a great team accomplishment, but in the end, it can also end up overrating a player. Look at Russell for a great example.

Hawkeye15
07-25-2011, 03:24 PM
Magic was drafted to a team that had a top 5 player. He has no control of that. Now, had Magic played with the Lakers and never won, and decided to go play with Bird and the Celtics, then his reputation would of taken a hit and probably would not be considered a top 5 player right now.

Now if Lebron wins a few championships, good for him, but he will be looked at that he needed a top 3 player and a top 3 PF in the NBA to win a championship. To be even considered #4, he needs to prove to everyone that he can close on the big stage and not dissappear and he has done in the past.

A) Doesn't matter why, fact is he played with a top 5 player ever, and Worthy, Scott, Cooper, Thompson take a serious dump on Bosh, Haslem, Miller, and whatever. Yet we don't let the fact that Magic had an unreal roster with a player arguably greater than he was deter our ranking

B) Its well chronicled that Magic had a lot of pull on what team he ended up on

NYKalltheway
07-25-2011, 03:28 PM
I agree with you Hawkeye on the ring thing, but you can't say that about Magic just by looking at Lebron today. Look at who Lebron has to face, then look at the super teams Magic had to face. Bad Boys Pistons, Larry Bird's Celtics, Jordan's Bulls, Hakeem's Rockets, Ewing's Knicks, Stockton & Malone Utah Jazz, Payton & Kemp Sonics and on...
No player on his own could win a ring, while today it's easier with 1-2 stars to make it happen.

JWO35
07-25-2011, 03:32 PM
1. Kevin Durant
2. Michael Jordan

BlitzBlud4
07-25-2011, 03:32 PM
I could possibly see Wade passing Kobe on the alltime charts. It isn't out of question for me IMO. I think Wade will retire with better stats than Kobe. I could most definitely see Wade retiring with a higher career ppg, rpg, apg, spg, bpg, field %. Also a higher career PER, WS, OWS, DWS, ORtg, DRtg, and other advanced stats. Wade probably may not retire with more accolades (all-nba 1st team, all-defence 1st team, scoring titles, mvp's) than Kobe but I think he'll have better career stats. Also depends on how many titles Wade wins. If he wins 4+ titles with at least 2 FMVPs then it gets more debatable. He still as a long way to go, remember he's only 30 and he's just getting better.

Hawkeye15
07-25-2011, 03:35 PM
I agree with you Hawkeye on the ring thing, but you can't say that about Magic just by looking at Lebron today. Look at who Lebron has to face, then look at the super teams Magic had to face. Bad Boys Pistons, Larry Bird's Celtics, Jordan's Bulls, Hakeem's Rockets, Ewing's Knicks, Stockton & Malone Utah Jazz, Payton & Kemp Sonics and on...
No player on his own could win a ring, while today it's easier with 1-2 stars to make it happen.

used as a pure example. Nothing more. Its just annoying when someone says since LeBron has another top 5 player on his team any ring he wins is somehow tarnished or doesn't count as much basically, whe we have countless players throughout history who have had the same scenario, and with more depth.

WadeKobe
07-25-2011, 03:49 PM
LMAO Wade over Bird, Olajuwon, Bryant and Russell. That is an epic fail. Wade is gonig to be in about the 25-30 range. And saying Wade has MUCH MORE impressive stats than Kobe is also homeristic.

Wade will never be better than Larry Bird. NEVER

For some perspective... out of those names listed (understanding that Russell isn't really counted for most of these... so that skews things a bit....

1st in PPG? - Wade
1st in APG? - Wade/Bird (tie)
1st in SPG? - Wade
1st in AST% - Wade
1st in STL% - Wade
2nd in BLK% - Wade
2nd in WS/48 - Wade/Russel (tie)
1st in PER - Wade
1st in TS% - Wade



Playoffs...

2nd in PER - Wade
1st in TS% - Wade
2nd in WS/48 - Wade
1st in PPG - Wade
2nd in APG - Wade
1st in AST% - Wade

Wade is also currently #6 all time in PER.

If the Heat win 3 more (what the rankings were based off of) and Wade wins 1/3 finals MVPs...

Wade will have more championships than Bird, and equal finals MVPs as Bird and Kobe.

Wade has already eclipsed Bird's peak PER season 3 different times.

There is an argument there. If you disagree, fine. There's good arguments for your side, too. But don't call it homerism or an epic fail. It's not.

WadeKobe
07-25-2011, 03:52 PM
LMAO Wade over Bird, Olajuwon, Bryant and Russell. That is an epic fail. Wade is gonig to be in about the 25-30 range. And saying Wade has MUCH MORE impressive stats than Kobe is also homeristic.

Wade will never be better than Larry Bird. NEVER

And, to be honest, I debated back and forth a lot between Wade/Bird. My gut reaction was Bird. So, fine.

Bird #9, Wade #10. Consider it changed... Bird's NetRtg is a lot higher, so is his WS/48, but the latter could change given how much the Heat will win over the next 6 years. Bird had the advantage of playing on great teams, while Wade has carried around some garbage teams.

JordansBulls
07-25-2011, 04:20 PM
In that case then individually people can say Karl Malone is better player than Tim Duncan. But look at the hardware. That is what puts Duncan over the top. Hardware holds a lot of value.

Disagree because Tim Duncan took a franchise that never won anything to the title multiple times.

knightstemplar
07-25-2011, 04:29 PM
lmao at lebron and wade passing kobe
that made my day

BlitzBlud4
07-25-2011, 04:33 PM
lmao at lebron and wade passing kobe
that made my day

Why so?? It's a prediction thread, and when LeBron and Wade both retire, it's not far-fetched to say they will pass Kobe (especially LeBron who I think will pass Kobe regardless of titles)

naps
07-25-2011, 04:46 PM
lmao at lebron and wade passing kobe
that made my day

Isn't this a prediction thread? This is very possible when they both say goodbye. Not a sure thing but possible.

younggunn113
07-25-2011, 04:55 PM
10. Lebron James
09. Tim Duncan
08. Shaq
07. Wilt Chamberlain
06. Kobe Bryant
05. Larry Bird
04. Magic Johnson
03. Bill Russell
02. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
01. Michael Jordan

LongWayFromHome
07-25-2011, 05:16 PM
Isn't this a prediction thread? This is very possible when they both say goodbye. Not a sure thing but possible.

Leborn definitely possible. but not Wade - he's only 3 years younger than Bryant.

Wade @ 29
- just came off seasons of 30 and 26 ppg (without Lebron)
- 1 ring
- has missed 109 games due to injury in 8 seasons
- avg 25, 6reb >5asts (with Lebron so number a little lower)

Kobe @ 29
- just came off seasons of 35 and 31ppg.
- 3 rings, 2 immediately later
- had missed about 70 career games due to injury in 12 seasons
- avg 28, 6reb and 5ast that year

NYKalltheway
07-25-2011, 05:18 PM
Kobe got straight out of high school while Wade graduated from Marquette. Big difference, 4 years of no NBA for Wade kind of difference

1DROSE1
07-25-2011, 05:18 PM
I could possibly see Wade passing Kobe on the alltime charts. It isn't out of question for me IMO. I think Wade will retire with better stats than Kobe. I could most definitely see Wade retiring with a higher career ppg, rpg, apg, spg, bpg, field %. Also a higher career PER, WS, OWS, DWS, ORtg, DRtg, and other advanced stats. Wade probably may not retire with more accolades (all-nba 1st team, all-defence 1st team, scoring titles, mvp's) than Kobe but I think he'll have better career stats. Also depends on how many titles Wade wins. If he wins 4+ titles with at least 2 FMVPs then it gets more debatable. He still as a long way to go, remember he's only 30 and he's just getting better.
Dwayne Wade is an amazing player, but i dont see him passing Kobe. He's not the same player he was before, if you told me that 3 years ago it would of been very possible. Right now to me the chances of that happening is 40-60 odds.

SanPitte
07-25-2011, 05:22 PM
1.MJ
2.Abdul-Jabbar
3.Wilt
4.Magic
5.Bird
6.Shaq
7.Kobe
8.Dr J
9.Hakeem
10.Duncan

#11: Russell
#12: Lebron
#13: big O
#14: D.Robinson

if lebron wins titles he'll be top 10, maybe top 5 if multiple, as Malone and Barkley would've been
Russell was great, but surrounded with HoFers in an era with no salary cap and only few teams
Big O and the admiral are just not top 10

Cowboys4Life619
07-25-2011, 05:30 PM
The problem with this question is that people will vote for only players they've seen, which is fine, but to put Lebrick over LARRY LEGEND...that's just wrong. It's Larry Freakin Bird!!

knightstemplar
07-25-2011, 05:34 PM
Kobe got straight out of high school while Wade graduated from Marquette. Big difference, 4 years of no NBA for Wade kind of difference

take away the first 4 years of kobes career, and hes still ahead

NYKalltheway
07-25-2011, 05:41 PM
take away the first 4 years of kobes career, and hes still ahead

Statistically, I'm not going against that. Is he though? You're talking about 4 years of NBA experience. Plus, he was next to Shaq and under Phil Jackson. I think that impact of the first 4 years cannot be measured statistically

BlitzBlud4
07-25-2011, 05:54 PM
Dwayne Wade is an amazing player, but i dont see him passing Kobe. He's not the same player he was before, if you told me that 3 years ago it would of been very possible. Right now to me the chances of that happening is 40-60 odds.

I guess that is legit. Wade having LeBron does take away Wade's chances at passing Kobe slightly, but I think it's still debatable. In terms of longevity, Kobe will probably be ahead of Wade slightly (due to Wade being injured from 06/07-07/08), but for overall peak, I think Wade could surpass Kobe. Wade's best season (08/09) was better than Kobe's best (05/06), and his Finals MVP (06) performance is also better than both of Kobe's Finals performance.

naps
07-25-2011, 06:13 PM
Leborn definitely possible. but not Wade - he's only 3 years younger than Bryant.

Wade @ 29
- just came off seasons of 30 and 26 ppg (without Lebron)
- 1 ring
- has missed 109 games due to injury in 8 seasons
- avg 25, 6reb >5asts (with Lebron so number a little lower)

Kobe @ 29
- just came off seasons of 35 and 31ppg.
- 3 rings, 2 immediately later
- had missed about 70 career games due to injury in 12 seasons
- avg 28, 6reb and 5ast that year

Wade definitely will make a case with 3 more rings and if he adds 2 more finals MVPs it won't be a debate anymore.

BlitzBlud4
07-25-2011, 06:22 PM
The problem with this question is that people will vote for only players they've seen, which is fine, but to put Lebrick over LARRY LEGEND...that's just wrong. It's Larry Freakin Bird!!

I don't think it's wrong at all. When players of this era retire, I dont think Bird will still be a top 10 player of alltime (probably even sooner). Also, your forgetting that LeBron is only 26 (finished his 8th season). When Bird was 26 (he finished his 4th season).

Bird at the end of 26 (1982/1983):
ROY (1980)
All-NBA Rookie 1st team
1 championship (1981)
4X All-NBA 1st team selection (80'-83')
2X All-NBA 2nd defence team selection (81'/82', 82'/83')
4X All-Star (80'-83')
1 All-Star Game MVP (1982)
Avgs: 22.3 PPG, 10.8 RPG, 5.4 APG, 49%, 29.4 3PT%, 85 FT%, 21.8 PER

LeBron at the end of 26 (2010/2011):
ROY (2004)
All-NBA Rookie 1st team
5X All-NBA 1st team selection (06', 08'-11')
2X All-NBA 2nd team selection (05', 07')
3X All-NBA 1st defence team selection (08'/09'-10'/11')
7X All-Star (05'-11')
2X All-Star Game MVP (06', 08')
2X NBA MVP (09'/10', 10'/11')
Avgs: 27.7 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 7 APG, 48 %, 33 3PT%, 74 FT%, 26.9 PER

So, overall, I do think LeBron will eventually pass Bird to become the no.1 SF of alltime. And I do think LeBron's peak years will suprass Bird's (if they didn't already), and LeBron will no doubt have a longer career IMO.
But, LeBron does need a ring (and FMVP) to solidate his alltime ranking.

JNore151
07-25-2011, 06:23 PM
this thread is so stupid

Cal827
07-25-2011, 06:30 PM
1a. Scalabraine


















1b)MJ
2. Wilt
3. Magic
4. Abdul Jabbar
5. Bird
6. Kobe
7.Lebron
8.Shaq
9. Hakeem
10.Durant (I think he's something special lol)

MelkyNYY
07-25-2011, 06:38 PM
1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Magic
8. Hakeem
9. Bird
10. Duncan

or

1. Derrick Rose
2. Michael Jordan
3. Luol Deng
4. Landry Fields
5. Carmelo Anthony
6. Amare Stoudamire
7. Imam Shumpert
8. Kareem
9. Hakeem
10. Wade

Cowboys4Life619
07-25-2011, 06:45 PM
I don't think it's wrong at all. When players of this era retire, I dont think Bird will still be a top 10 player of alltime (probably even sooner). Also, your forgetting that LeBron is only 26 (finished his 8th season). When Bird was 26 (he finished his 4th season).

Bird at the end of 26 (1982/1983):
ROY (1980)
All-NBA Rookie 1st team
1 championship (1981)
4X All-NBA 1st team selection (80'-83')
2X All-NBA 2nd defence team selection (81'/82', 82'/83')
4X All-Star (80'-83')
1 All-Star Game MVP (1982)
Avgs: 22.3 PPG, 10.8 RPG, 5.4 APG, 49%, 29.4 3PT%, 85 FT%, 21.8 PER

LeBron at the end of 26 (2010/2011):
ROY (2004)
All-NBA Rookie 1st team
5X All-NBA 1st team selection (06', 08'-11')
2X All-NBA 2nd team selection (05', 07')
3X All-NBA 1st defence team selection (08'/09'-10'/11')
7X All-Star (05'-11')
2X All-Star Game MVP (06', 08')
2X NBA MVP (09'/10', 10'/11')
Avgs: 27.7 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 7 APG, 48 %, 33 3PT%, 74 FT%, 26.9 PER

So, overall, I do think LeBron will eventually pass Bird to become the no.1 SF of alltime. And I do think LeBron's peak years will suprass Bird's (if they didn't already), and LeBron will no doubt have a longer career IMO.
But, LeBron does need a ring (and FMVP) to solidate his alltime ranking.

Stats are great...but 3 rings are better!! I just don't see Lebron doing that...Larry led great players...Lebron can't lead one great player, a good one and a bunch of bums. I guess time will tell...just don't see him doing it!

knightstemplar
07-25-2011, 07:04 PM
Wade definitely will make a case with 3 more rings and if he adds 2 more finals MVPs it won't be a debate anymore.

:laugh:

smiddy012
07-25-2011, 07:11 PM
1: MJ
2-to-Infinite: Who cares

This.

smiddy012
07-25-2011, 07:12 PM
1a. Scalabraine














1b)MJ
2. Wilt
3. Magic
4. Abdul Jabbar
5. Bird
6. Kobe
7.Lebron
8.Shaq
9. Hakeem
10.Durant (I think he's something special lol)

1 - Scally
2 - MJ
3 to infinite - doesn't matter

:clap:

Not to mention your other rankings kick *** :)

alencp3
07-25-2011, 08:05 PM
the same as now with lebron being around 2-6 and griffin around 4-8th place
and no im not kidding

BlitzBlud4
07-25-2011, 08:16 PM
Stats are great...but 3 rings are better!! I just don't see Lebron doing that...Larry led great players...Lebron can't lead one great player, a good one and a bunch of bums. I guess time will tell...just don't see him doing it!

Well rings are more of a team accomplishment but I get your point. LeBron needs at least 1 ring to be legitamately ranked higher than Bird (even if LeBron ends will better stats). Im sure LeBron will win at least 1 ring in his career- possibly multiples, he has ways to go. But IMO it's too early to say "LeBron will never surpass Larry Bird", just based on him not having won a ring in his first season in Miami.

BlitzBlud4
07-25-2011, 08:24 PM
:facepalm:
gtfo ******

So you think he needs to multiple rings (2+)/FMVPs to be considered better than Bird, even if LeBron ends his career with superior stats, more accolodes and has more longevity? This is when rings get overrated IMO

knightstemplar
07-25-2011, 08:27 PM
So you think he needs to multiple rings (2+)/FMVPs to be considered better than Bird, even if LeBron ends his career with superior stats, more accolodes and has more longevity? This is when rings get overrated IMO

look at lebrons team, how can you say hes better than bird if he doesnt win atleast 3? if bird did it, then lebron should to

BlitzBlud4
07-25-2011, 08:35 PM
look at lebrons team, how can you say hes better than bird if he doesnt win atleast 3? if bird did it, then lebron should to

Yeah but if LeBron has Bird beat in basically everything except rings, he still should be considered better alltime than im IMO (Bird only as 3 rings, so LeBron getting only 1 isn't that far off). And Bird's title teams were better than this season's Heats team. I didn't expect them to win this season anyway, or even make the Finals but they did. Granted, had they won this season, everything would have looked better for LeBron's career, but it isn't the end of the world. They will most likely be better next season and have a strong chance at winning it all.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-25-2011, 09:54 PM
The OP starts a thread and doesn't mention Rose, why would you post this? After 11,000 posts you thought this was a good idea to post still? Not only is it really not clever at all nor funny it probably (didn't read thread) started some sort of e-fight with Rose when the thread was never about him. You all complain about Rose threads and then make posts like this. Annoying.

:laugh2:

Ever heard of a joke?

Considering the outrageous amount of posters in PSD who drink Derrick Rose's balls soup, I was surprised he wasn't mentioned.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-25-2011, 09:55 PM
and why not?
and btw paus post game is better than overated jeffersons.

Well if you wanna try to create the perfect blend of players, you should list the player who is the best at what they do. So why post Pau when there are others better.

Jefferson's footwork is one of the best in the NBA. His post game is legit.

WadeKobe
07-26-2011, 07:48 PM
lmao at lebron and wade passing kobe
that made my day



best 5 consecutive years by PER
Wilt 182.10
MJ 164.56
LeBron 143.7
Kareem 139.43
D-Wade 136.4
Drob 132.22
Oscar 130.76
Shaq 123.75
KG 121.26
L Bird 118.48
Moses M 115.06
Barkley 113.41
Karl M 113.16
Kobe 112.66
Hakeem 110.67
Duncan 108.10
Dirk 107.86
Magic 105.19
Jerry W 93.55
John St 91.50
Bill R 73.80


But... you're probably right... :rolleyes:

GhostfaceDrilla
07-26-2011, 08:46 PM
best 5 consecutive years by PER
Wilt 182.10
MJ 164.56
LeBron 143.7
Kareem 139.43
D-Wade 136.4
Drob 132.22
Oscar 130.76
Shaq 123.75
KG 121.26
L Bird 118.48
Moses M 115.06
Barkley 113.41
Karl M 113.16
Kobe 112.66
Hakeem 110.67
Duncan 108.10
Dirk 107.86
Magic 105.19
Jerry W 93.55
John St 91.50
Bill R 73.80


But... you're probably right... :rolleyes:

I am the biggest Dirk fan in the world and will pretty much argue him over anyone outside of the top 15 of all time (he's around 15 or 16 to me) but can you say with a straight face that he is better than Magic? He's ahead of him but that doesn't make him better. LeBron and Wade have a chance to be better than Kobe but it is going to take so much. They will have to win 4 rings at least, which isn't going to happen. I see them winning 1 or 2 and then a TEAM like Oklahoma City or Chicago or even the Clippers will start winning.

WadeKobe
07-26-2011, 08:53 PM
I am the biggest Dirk fan in the world and will pretty much argue him over anyone outside of the top 15 of all time (he's around 15 or 16 to me) but can you say with a straight face that he is better than Magic? He's ahead of him but that doesn't make him better. LeBron and Wade have a chance to be better than Kobe but it is going to take so much. They will have to win 4 rings at least, which isn't going to happen. I see them winning 1 or 2 and then a TEAM like Oklahoma City or Chicago or even the Clippers will start winning.

But, let's be clear...

LeBron 143.7
D-Wade 136.4
Kobe 112.66

is quite a bit different than...

Dirk 107.86
Magic 105.19

But, I can still agree it will take 4 rings for Wade to surpass Kobe. 3 rings will be close... but 4 rings and a second FMVP will in fact put him past Kobe with THAT big of a stat disparity. That means 3 for this team - not 4.

With 3 rings and 2 FMVP, LeBron will easily surpass Kobe.

Also, LeBron and Wade's top 5 PER total will be higher after the next 3 years are over...

dnewguy
07-26-2011, 09:49 PM
Only one is for sure, MJ. Everyone-else can be surpassed in the future.

redsox96
07-26-2011, 10:12 PM
brian scalabrine will be the greatest player of all time. /thread.

WadeKobe
07-26-2011, 10:12 PM
Only one is for sure, MJ. Everyone-else can be surpassed in the future.

Technically, so can MJ. If someone is better, and accumulates better stats and accolades, are you really going to say MJ was still better? He's not god. He's simply the greatest we've ever seen. That does not preclude the possibility of someone being better than him eventually. LeBron clearly doesn't stack up, and it's hard imagining anyone doing so if LeBron can't... but who knows. We'll see.

Hellcrooner
07-26-2011, 10:22 PM
Only one is for sure, MJ. Everyone-else can be surpassed in the future.

thats the exact reason i will always say Mj is overated.
Posts like this.

Supreme LA
07-26-2011, 10:28 PM
But, let's be clear...

LeBron 143.7
D-Wade 136.4
Kobe 112.66

is quite a bit different than...

Dirk 107.86
Magic 105.19

But, I can still agree it will take 4 rings for Wade to surpass Kobe. 3 rings will be close... but 4 rings and a second FMVP will in fact put him past Kobe with THAT big of a stat disparity. That means 3 for this team - not 4.

With 3 rings and 2 FMVP, LeBron will easily surpass Kobe.

Also, LeBron and Wade's top 5 PER total will be higher after the next 3 years are over...

I disagree and I'm sure most NBA fans will agree with me that Lebron lost his chance to surpass Kobe when he went to join up with Wade and Bosh. Lebron's stats will always put him in the argument, but he will never be considered a better winner or a more all-around fundamentally skilled player. Kobe is a master of the game just as MJ and he deserves a lot of respect for that. Lebron can only hope to have as a complete a game as Kobe does. It's true. Don't get blinded by the chase down blocks, high flying dunks, bulldozing drives, sloppy footwork, horrible ball handle, and bricked shots.

Hawkeye15
07-26-2011, 10:30 PM
Only one is for sure, MJ. Everyone-else can be surpassed in the future.

no current established players can, for sure. But someone will come along one day. Might be tomorrow, might be in 10 years, might be in 40. Who knows

Hawkeye15
07-26-2011, 10:31 PM
I disagree and I'm sure most NBA fans will agree with me that Lebron lost his chance to surpass Kobe when he went to join up with Wade and Bosh. Lebron's stats will always put him in the argument, but he will never be considered a better winner or a more all-around fundamentally skilled player. Kobe is a master of the game just as MJ and he deserves a lot of respect for that. Lebron can only hope to have as a complete a game as Kobe does. It's true. Don't get blinded by the chase down blocks, high flying dunks, bulldozing drives, sloppy footwork, horrible ball handle, and bricked shots.

no, that would be only Kobe/Laker fans honestly.

Hellcrooner
07-26-2011, 10:32 PM
no, that would be only Kobe/Laker fans honestly.

only kobe fans.

WadeKobe
07-26-2011, 11:16 PM
I disagree and I'm sure most NBA fans will agree with me that Lebron lost his chance to surpass Kobe when he went to join up with Wade and Bosh. Lebron's stats will always put him in the argument, but he will never be considered a better winner or a more all-around fundamentally skilled player. Kobe is a master of the game just as MJ and he deserves a lot of respect for that. Lebron can only hope to have as a complete a game as Kobe does. It's true. Don't get blinded by the chase down blocks, high flying dunks, bulldozing drives, sloppy footwork, horrible ball handle, and bricked shots.

Bricked shots? More complete?

The guy is a masterful passer, with supreme basketball IQ, incredible court vision, and ball handling skills Kobe could only dream of. That's why he could play PG, and Kobe couldn't. Let's not get ridiculous here.

And what changed when he joined stars? The fact that he played in Cleveland where no one wanted to play... while Kobe played in LA!? GTFOH.

king_of_limbs
07-27-2011, 08:27 PM
.

TheHoopsProphet
07-27-2011, 08:29 PM
I wouldnt give the guy a break. The comment was very sarcastic and if ur going to "that guy" then you should at least say it the right way.

I WON'T give the guy a break. The comment was very sarcastic and if YOU'RE going to BE "that guy" THAN you should at least say it the right way.

If English is your first language, please don't admit to it

WadeKobe
07-27-2011, 08:40 PM
I WON'T give the guy a break. The comment was very sarcastic and if YOU'RE going to BE "that guy" THAN you should at least say it the right way.

If English is your first language, please don't admit to it

:facepalm:

the correct word in this sentence is "... if you're going to be 'that guy', then you should at least say it the right way."

How are you going to correct someone like that and correct him when he's right and you're wrong!? lol.