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JordansBulls
07-24-2011, 05:03 PM
RULES:
There will be a zero tolerance, one strike policy. If ANY poster is interrupting any of the threads in a negative way, OR causing any problems they're ability to vote will be taken away.
NO POSTING in your FORUM, VOTE for this GUY. We had problems last time with it and NO POSTING in someone Else's Forum to VOTE for a certain player.


Criteria: Take into account both peak and career play, era dominance, impact on the game of basketball, and how well their style of play and skills would transcend onto different eras. To be more exact, how great they were at playing the game of basketball.


Voting for #13 has concluded and PSD's Official #13 NBA Player of all time is....

Jerry West


Top 5 Voters


Jerry West = 42 votes
Karl Malone = 19 votes
Charles Barkley = 9 votes


The List:
The List Thread (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635088)

The List:
1. Michael Jordan (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=631361)
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=631585)
3. Wilt Chamberlain (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=632046)
4. Magic Johnson (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=632690)
5. Bill Russell (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=632852)
6. Larry Bird (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633428)
7. Shaquille O'neal (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633751)
8. Kobe Bryant (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634022)
9. Hakeem Olajuwon (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634733)
10. Tim Duncan (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635092)
11. Oscar Robertson (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635506)
12. Moses Malone (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=636033)
13. Jerry West (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=636552)


NOTE: There are already 30 poll options and can't add more than 30. So keep the nominations coming and around player #15, we can add in 5 new guys.


Voting will now begin for the #14 NBA Player All Time

Chacarron
07-24-2011, 05:06 PM
The Mailman.

gsgs49
07-24-2011, 05:20 PM
The Admiral.

JordansBulls
07-24-2011, 05:24 PM
I took Mikan here. First dominant player in league history and won 5 titles out of his 7 years.

Vidball
07-24-2011, 05:25 PM
Baylor...he is a top scorer of all-time and he is the best rebounding SF ever.

NYKalltheway
07-24-2011, 05:32 PM
Karl Malone, David Robinson, Julius Erving and Charles Barkley should be the legit options here. Cousy, Mikan, Baylor or Havlicek would do as well if you prefer the "classics"

J-Relo
07-24-2011, 06:08 PM
Mikan.

Honorable mentions: Karl Malone, Julius Erving.

FaM0us Skins
07-24-2011, 06:36 PM
Malone

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-24-2011, 07:05 PM
I got to go with Malone. Easily one of the top two PF's to play the game.

tredigs
07-24-2011, 07:13 PM
I took Mikan here. First dominant player in league history and won 5 titles out of his 7 years.

Yeah, great player who definitely put in the hours to get that way, but he is probably the guy who most clearly benefited from the era he played in. He played in the late 40's/50's when the league (wasn't even the NBA yet at the start of his career) had 10 teams and virtually nobody taller than 6'7", it was just understood that anybody taller than that were too gangly and awkward to handle the game. But, the coach at DePaul made a project out of him and the first big was born.

Credit goes out to him, but when you're a talented player at 6'10" while having multiple inches on everyone you face, you're going to dominate - especially since he had a killer sky hook.

So yes, he's great - but his competition was the weakest the NBA ever was/will be. I'd rather choose a guy like Baylor or Bob Petit (led one of the few teams to take out Russel's Celtics) who we know can dominate against elite comp.

heattiltheend94
07-24-2011, 07:55 PM
Dr. J

Chronz
07-24-2011, 08:53 PM
Can anyone gimme a legit case against DROB vs their player?

PatsSoxKnicks
07-24-2011, 09:50 PM
Can anyone gimme a legit case against DROB vs their player?

Yeah, I went with DRob too. Statistically, his prime was better then either Malones or Barkleys. Plus, he was a great defender. I honestly thought he could've gone higher.

NBAfan4life
07-24-2011, 09:57 PM
Yeah, I went with DRob too. Statistically, his prime was better then either Malones or Barkleys. Plus, he was a great defender. I honestly thought he could've gone higher.

I went Malone only really because of longevity.

claffyT
07-24-2011, 10:14 PM
easily malone, he's much better than barkley. Barkley lost to MJ in the Finals once, Malone lost to MJ in the Finals twice

MTar786
07-24-2011, 10:15 PM
can someone tell me why malone is better than kg?

i went with mikan

dnewguy
07-24-2011, 10:20 PM
D wade is better than the Mailman.

claffyT
07-24-2011, 10:23 PM
can someone tell me why malone is better than kg?

i went with mikan

km has better stats and won more mvps than kg. also more accoloades. kg only has a ring over km

MilwaukeeBAller
07-24-2011, 10:26 PM
Give me Malone here

Chronz
07-24-2011, 11:36 PM
km has better stats and won more mvps than kg. also more accoloades. kg only has a ring over km

By better stats and accolades, what are you referring to? What about defense? What about playoff performance?

PatsSoxKnicks
07-24-2011, 11:36 PM
I went Malone only really because of longevity.

His longevity was amazing. But I still prefer peak and I think DRob was also the better defender. Plus, I can't fault Robinson for losing 2 years due to the Navy.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-24-2011, 11:39 PM
By better stats and accolades, what are you referring to? What about defense? What about playoff performance?

If I'm not mistaken, I think Malone was better than KG in the playoffs. Although, defensively, that's another story. KG is clearly the superior defender. I still wouldn't take either of them over Robinson.

MTar786
07-24-2011, 11:50 PM
km has better stats and won more mvps than kg. also more accoloades. kg only has a ring over km

what accolades?

km only has 1 mvp more than kg
the 98-99 mvp was probably the weakest mvp of all time
karl never won dpoy
a ring is more significant than everything else there is too
kg was a better passer
was wayyyyy more versatile
better passer and defender
malone has one of the 40 best all time players on his team for 15 years atleast and couldnt win a ring
kg won a ring the first season he got good players to play with

itsbeefy11
07-24-2011, 11:54 PM
Gotta go for the mailman on this one, going on the list

MTar786
07-24-2011, 11:56 PM
If I'm not mistaken, I think Malone was better than KG in the playoffs. Although, defensively, that's another story. KG is clearly the superior defender. I still wouldn't take either of them over Robinson.

for me it would be a toss up between robinson and kg

but malone is not there

Lakersfan2483
07-24-2011, 11:57 PM
Karl Malone. He was the iron man of the NBA. His prime numbers are off the charts and his postseason numbers aren't too shabby either. One of the greatest passing power forwards the game has ever seen and he was terrific in transition. Few bigs could run the court the way Malone used to. Also, he was a tough, hard nosed individual defender and a very good rebounder. Lastly, Malone was an absolute beast in his prime in terms of scoring and putting up big numbers on a consistent basis.

Aside from leading his team to titles (which keeps him out of the top ten), Karl's resume is one of the greatest in league history when you consider his peak, total rebounds, total career pts, assists, etc.... and the fact that he played at such a high level for so long....

Lakersfan2483
07-25-2011, 12:08 AM
Can anyone gimme a legit case against DROB vs their player?

I would like to here your argument for Robinson being so high on your list? That's a very interesting choice to have him so high on your list. How did you arrive at your decision?

tredigs
07-25-2011, 12:26 AM
You guys are sleeping on Bob Pettit and Elgin Baylor. 3 votes between them both while the Mailman runs away with it? Seems odd to me. They're both ahead of Robinson as well.

Chronz
07-25-2011, 12:34 AM
You guys are sleeping on Bob Pettit and Elgin Baylor. 3 votes between them both while the Mailman runs away with it? Seems odd to me. They're both ahead of Robinson as well.

Got something against the admiral? What do you make of Elgins post knee op phase of his career? Hes a key reason the lakers never won imo.

Chronz
07-25-2011, 12:41 AM
I would like to here your argument for Robinson being so high on your list? That's a very interesting choice to have him so high on your list. How did you arrive at your decision?

He was an instant superstar, took a ****** team and made them a power without the aid of a player who is arguably his equal. Superior defender with a greater peak. malone has freakish longevity and as his game drifted to the perimeter his passing game opened up, Ill post something more in depth later but I got alot on my table right now.

Lakersfan2483
07-25-2011, 12:43 AM
You guys are sleeping on Bob Pettit and Elgin Baylor. 3 votes between them both while the Mailman runs away with it? Seems odd to me. They're both ahead of Robinson as well.

No question about it, Pettit was definitely one of the all time greats. A lot of people forget just how good he was. I have him in my top 20 for sure. Elgin is a top 20 player as well.

I could see a legit argument for Pettit over Malone. I have Malone ahead of Pettit, however I am not dogmatic in terms of my pick of Malone at 14.

Lakersfan2483
07-25-2011, 12:45 AM
He was an instant superstar, took a ****** team and made them a power without the aid of a player who is arguably his equal. Superior defender with a greater peak. malone has freakish longevity and as his game drifted to the perimeter his passing game opened up, Ill post something more in depth later but I got alot on my table right now.

I look forward to reading more about why you have Robinson so high on your list.

Lakersfan2483
07-25-2011, 12:46 AM
Another guy people forget about is Rick Barry..... He was a flat out stud.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-25-2011, 12:48 AM
What's with the lack of love for David Robinson?

His defense was one of the greatest I've ever seen and his offense was legit.

Had he played starting at like age 20 and he could have developed into a way better player. Maybe even top 3 center.

tredigs
07-25-2011, 12:48 AM
Got something against the admiral? What do you make of Elgins post knee op phase of his career? Hes a key reason the lakers never won imo.

Nah. Love D. Rob, just think he goes behind them both.

Once his knee was ****ed, he was rarely the same player - but his dominance (regular and postseason) was flat out legendary up until that point (nearly a half decades worth of time).

THE MTL
07-25-2011, 01:41 AM
Def Dr. J! Btw, how did Oscar Robertson fall out of the Top 10..

Mile High Champ
07-25-2011, 09:58 AM
Finally Karl Malone is getting some love!!

NYKalltheway
07-25-2011, 10:08 AM
Def Dr. J! Btw, how did Oscar Robertson fall out of the Top 10..

you really want an answer there?

DR_1
07-25-2011, 10:40 AM
Which idiots voted for LeBron lol

mightybosstone
07-25-2011, 11:08 AM
Someone I haven't seen get a ton of recognition is John Havlicek. He won eight titles, was All-NBA AND All-Defensive (first x5, second x3) from 68-76, had a scoring average from 23-28 from 65-74 and is 12th all time in defensive win shares despite being a 6-5 guard. If he doesn't crack the top 20, there is something wrong with PSD.

Most people will go with Robinson, Malone or Barkley here and I don't blame them. However, I'm going with Julius Erving, and in all honesty, I don't have a lot of statistical arguments to back it up.

His game made basketball fun to watch and he was an instrumental figure in the ABA/NBA merger. Statistically, the guy still won two ABA titles, three ABA MVPs, an NBA MVP and an NBA title (although Moses was the best player on that team). And despite being a flashy player, he was efficient and a very strong defensive player. I don't necessarily think he was a more dominant player than Barkley, Robinson or Malone (who I pray to God doesn't win this), but he changed the way they play the game and I think there should be some consideration for that.

mightybosstone
07-25-2011, 11:22 AM
As far as the whole Malone, Barkley, Robinson debate, I'm going...

1. Robinson
2. Barkley
3. Malone

Longevity shouldn't be as important as peak performance and I think Malone's atrocious career postseason performances (77th in career postseason WS/48) should knock him down significantly. People voting Malone clearly are paying no attention to his playoff performance and are looking strictly at his pretty numbers.

ragee
07-25-2011, 11:24 AM
Stockton... The Mailman was always there to deliver because Stockton knows when and where to give him the ball... The dude leads the league in steals (by a large margin) and assists... He is extremely underrated IMO...

NYKalltheway
07-25-2011, 12:28 PM
As for that Julius Erving comment. Here's a statistical argument:


In his ABA and NBA careers combined, he scored more than 30,000 points. In 1993, Erving was elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. When he retired, Erving ranked in the top 5 in scoring (third), field goals made (third), field goals attempted (fifth) and steals (first). On the combined NBA/ABA scoring list, Erving ranked third with 30,026 points. As of 2011, Erving ranks fifth on the list, behind only Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Karl Malone, Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain.

I'd say Julius is a borderline top 10 guy, top 15 at less. (My votes are fairly random from time to time, I stand by Dr J being top 10-15 of all time)

gsgs49
07-25-2011, 01:04 PM
As for that Julius Erving comment. Here's a statistical argument:



I'd say Julius is a borderline top 10 guy, top 15 at less. (My votes are fairly random from time to time, I stand by Dr J being top 10-15 of all time)

I think that his NBA career isn't good enough to give him a spot in the top 15 if you add his ABA career then maybe.
His best years were when he was young in the ABA which is a weaker league,his dominance took a hit in the NBA so that hurts his case IMO
I have him outside the top 15 but in the 16-20 range.

gsgs49
07-25-2011, 01:07 PM
As far as the whole Malone, Barkley, Robinson debate, I'm going...

1. Robinson
2. Barkley
3. Malone

Longevity shouldn't be as important as peak performance and I think Malone's atrocious career postseason performances (77th in career postseason WS/48) should knock him down significantly. People voting Malone clearly are paying no attention to his playoff performance and are looking strictly at his pretty numbers.

I second that.

todu82
07-25-2011, 01:31 PM
Karl Malone

mightybosstone
07-25-2011, 01:45 PM
For all the Malone voters out there, can you PLEASE give me a reasonable explanation as to why he deserves to be at this spot over Erving, Robinson, Barkley, Havlick and Baylor? The guy was a phenomenal regular season player, but I dare you to find me a player who was more underwhelming in the postseason than Karl Malone. And longevity should not be the only factor in determining who is a better player...

GhostfaceDrilla
07-25-2011, 02:07 PM
Went with Julius Erving here.

tredigs
07-25-2011, 02:11 PM
Bob Pettit, people. Learn about him. It's insane how little love he is getting.

Top 5 in WinShares and PER (leading 4 years straight. 25.3 Career) for virtually every year in his career (which lasted a full decade), as well as being All-NBA 1st team every year but his last (2nd team) - alongside Chamberlain/Russell/Big O/Jerry West. Rookie of the Year, an All-Star every season, one of the top scorers and rebounders in NBA history - won a ship over Russel's Celtics, multiple MVP winner. Ranks 7th all time in points per game (top ten in TS% for half his career) and 3rd All Time in rebounds per game (inflated due to pace relative to modern day, but could hang with Wilt and Russell on the glass - and he was a PF).

The resume' is absurd, and this was during the years where there began to be other elite bigs in the league, unlike during George Mikan's career.

NYKalltheway
07-25-2011, 02:14 PM
Bob Pettit, people. Learn about him. It's insane how little love he is getting.

Top 5 in WinShares and PER (leading 4 years straight. 25.3 Career) for virtually every year in his career (which lasted a full decade), as well as being All-NBA 1st team every year but his last (2nd team) - alongside Chamberlain/Russell/Big O/Jerry West. Rookie of the Year, an All-Star every season, one of the top scorers and rebounders in NBA history - won a ship over Russel's Celtics, multiple MVP winner. Ranks 7th all time in points per game (top ten in TS% for half his career) and 3rd All Time in rebounds per game (inflated due to pace relative to modern day, but could hang with Wilt and Russell on the glass - and he was a PF).

The resume' is absurd, and this was during the years where there began to be other elite bigs in the league, unlike during George Mikan's career.

that sounds like someone better than Kobe :shrug: Guess I was too wrong for saying stuff like this earlier (without using the data as it'd be a waste of time)

Bruno
07-25-2011, 03:25 PM
I went David Robinson. He has the best combination of championships, accolades, longevity, and statistical dominance out of anyone left, IMO. Conveninetly enough, basketball-reference also has him as their #14 player on their ELO "fan rankings". Bryant is ranked 53rd all-time in their "fan rankings" rendering those rankings practically useless, but I don't think the 14-15 range is far off for Robinson.

His peak stats rival that of Shaqs peak years, although he wasn't winning titles while doing so, as Shaq did. His career numbers are fantastic.

WadeKobe
07-25-2011, 03:25 PM
As far as the whole Malone, Barkley, Robinson debate, I'm going...

1. Robinson
2. Barkley
3. Malone

Longevity shouldn't be as important as peak performance and I think Malone's atrocious career postseason performances (77th in career postseason WS/48) should knock him down significantly. People voting Malone clearly are paying no attention to his playoff performance and are looking strictly at his pretty numbers.

:clap: This. However, with others included, I would put it this way:

1. Robinson
2. Garnett
3. Pettit
4. Stockton
5. Dr. J
6. Baylor
7. Malone

That is how my votes will stack up moving forward...

WadeKobe
07-25-2011, 03:28 PM
Bob Pettit, people. Learn about him. It's insane how little love he is getting.

Top 5 in WinShares and PER (leading 4 years straight. 25.3 Career) for virtually every year in his career (which lasted a full decade), as well as being All-NBA 1st team every year but his last (2nd team) - alongside Chamberlain/Russell/Big O/Jerry West. Rookie of the Year, an All-Star every season, one of the top scorers and rebounders in NBA history - won a ship over Russel's Celtics, multiple MVP winner. Ranks 7th all time in points per game (top ten in TS% for half his career) and 3rd All Time in rebounds per game (inflated due to pace relative to modern day, but could hang with Wilt and Russell on the glass - and he was a PF).

The resume' is absurd, and this was during the years where there began to be other elite bigs in the league, unlike during George Mikan's career.

Even though I would go DRob and KG over Pettit, I love this post, and totally respect a Petitt vote here.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-25-2011, 03:50 PM
I went David Robinson. He has the best combination of championships, accolades, longevity, and statistical dominance out of anyone left, IMO. Conveninetly enough, basketball-reference also has him as their #14 player on their ELO "fan rankings". Bryant is ranked 53rd all-time in their "fan rankings" rendering those rankings practically useless, but I don't think the 14-15 range is far off for Robinson.

His peak stats rival that of Shaqs peak years, although he wasn't winning titles while doing so, as Shaq did. His career numbers are fantastic.

They're actually better than Shaq if you look at either PER or Win Shares:

A player's prime is typically from 26-31 give or take, or about 5 years, so who has the best 5 consecutive years in terms of Win Shares?


best 5 consecutive years
Wilt 105.5
Kareem 101.8
MJ 98.0
Oscar 88.7
Drob 82.9
KG 77.7
Dirk 77.2
Karl M 77.1
Bill R 76.2
Barkley 75.8
L Bird 75.3
Magic 74.8
Duncan 73.6
John St 71.5
Moses M 70.2
Shaq 69.8
Jerry W 69.1
Kobe 64.2
Hakeem 60.3


Or using PER:


best 5 consecutive years
Wilt 182.10
MJ 164.56
Kareem 139.43
Drob 132.22
Oscar 130.76
Shaq 123.75
KG 121.26
L Bird 118.48
Moses M 115.06
Barkley 113.41
Karl M 113.16
Kobe 112.66
Hakeem 110.67
Duncan 108.10
Dirk 107.86
Magic 105.19
Jerry W 93.55
John St 91.50
Bill R 73.80


In red are the 3 guys that people seem to be talking about here. But Robinson's prime- better then most people seem to realize.

JordansBulls
07-25-2011, 04:10 PM
I went David Robinson. He has the best combination of championships, accolades, longevity, and statistical dominance out of anyone left, IMO. Conveninetly enough, basketball-reference also has him as their #14 player on their ELO "fan rankings". Bryant is ranked 53rd all-time in their "fan rankings" rendering those rankings practically useless, but I don't think the 14-15 range is far off for Robinson.

His peak stats rival that of Shaqs peak years, although he wasn't winning titles while doing so, as Shaq did. His career numbers are fantastic.

I don't know any player who shrunk as much from the regular season to the playoffs than David Robinson.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-25-2011, 04:18 PM
I don't know any player who shrunk as much from the regular season to the playoffs than David Robinson.

He did but so did Malone (Malone's TS% actually went down by more). Plus, Robinson was a great defender. DPOY and led the league in DRtg 5 times.

COOLbeans
07-25-2011, 04:31 PM
Im going with Stockton or Malone on this one. Though i voted Stockton.

mightybosstone
07-25-2011, 05:30 PM
I don't know any player who shrunk as much from the regular season to the playoffs than David Robinson.

I do. His name was Karl Malone. And for some strange reason, he's leading this poll. Why?

mightybosstone
07-25-2011, 05:31 PM
I'm still waiting for one legitimate argument why Malone is better than guys like Erving, Robinson or Barkley. If he's leading the poll by this many votes, it should be fairly easy for you Malone voters to pull out a decent argument that isn't based solely on longevity.

NYKalltheway
07-25-2011, 05:37 PM
I'm still waiting for one legitimate argument why Malone is better than guys like Erving, Robinson or Barkley. If he's leading the poll by this many votes, it should be fairly easy for you Malone voters to pull out a decent argument that isn't based solely on longevity.

didn't work with #8 either :p

PatsSoxKnicks
07-25-2011, 06:20 PM
I'm still waiting for one legitimate argument why Malone is better than guys like Erving, Robinson or Barkley. If he's leading the poll by this many votes, it should be fairly easy for you Malone voters to pull out a decent argument that isn't based solely on longevity.

Well Malone played in the playoffs and logged a lot of minutes from ages 37-40 so his playoff numbers are deflated because of the amount of minutes he played at such an old age.

However, even if you account for those 4 seasons, he's still not as good of a playoff performer. And Robinson brought top notch defense too.

So, yeah, I do agree with you. You might find this post (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18595784&postcount=34) interesting. You can really see the difference between the 3 broken down. Robinson's defense also gives him an edge.

MelkyNYY
07-25-2011, 06:57 PM
Lebron James

mightybosstone
07-25-2011, 07:00 PM
Lebron James

If you're going to make a bold move like that, I think you should have to back it up. If Lebron's career ended right now, how is he better than Erving, Barkley, Robinson, Malone, Havlicek, Pettit, etc.?

Stack_NJNets
07-25-2011, 08:16 PM
Malone

RevisIsland
07-25-2011, 08:30 PM
I voted for Isiah, but regardless there's a big drop off between 13 and 14.

tredigs
07-25-2011, 08:39 PM
They're actually better than Shaq if you look at either PER or Win Shares:

A player's prime is typically from 26-31 give or take, or about 5 years, so who has the best 5 consecutive years in terms of Win Shares?


best 5 consecutive years
Wilt 105.5
Kareem 101.8
MJ 98.0
Oscar 88.7
Drob 82.9
KG 77.7
Dirk 77.2
Karl M 77.1
Bill R 76.2
Barkley 75.8
L Bird 75.3
Magic 74.8
Duncan 73.6
John St 71.5
Moses M 70.2
Shaq 69.8
Jerry W 69.1
Bob Pettit 67.2
Kobe 64.2
Hakeem 60.3


Or using PER:


best 5 consecutive years
Wilt 182.10
MJ 164.56
Kareem 139.43
Bob Pettit 134.3
Drob 132.22
Oscar 130.76
Shaq 123.75
KG 121.26
L Bird 118.48
Moses M 115.06
Barkley 113.41
Karl M 113.16
Kobe 112.66
Hakeem 110.67
Duncan 108.10
Dirk 107.86
Magic 105.19
Jerry W 93.55
John St 91.50
Bill R 73.80


In red are the 3 guys that people seem to be talking about here. But Robinson's prime- better then most people seem to realize.

My (omitted) choice in blue. And in order to play by the top 5 consecutive WinShare/PER season criteria you have, this did not even include a connected season (i.e. would have been the 6th year) where he led the league in WinShares.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-26-2011, 12:14 AM
My (omitted) choice in blue. And in order to play by the top 5 consecutive WinShare/PER season criteria you have, this did not even include a connected season (i.e. would have been the 6th year) where he led the league in WinShares.

Yeah, I've been meaning to do Pettit, Dr. J and Elgin Baylor.

Wait, I'm a little confused on your 2nd sentence. If he led the league in Win Shares that 6th year, wouldn't that year just replace the 1st year?

Edit: Ah, were you referring to his 58-59 season which wouldn't be included? Think I got what you're saying.

Also, the PER numbers aren't actually PER numbers, they're for EWA (which is PER converted into total value). But if you did that out, I take it you used the positional replacement for a Center? Basketball-reference lists him as a forward-center but I've always thought he played center.

Anyways, interesting to see where Pettit falls in. Because of the time he played in, it's probably more fair to compare him to others in that same time period. Also, it seems to me that a lot of these guys in the 60s have inflated PER/WS numbers, although I can't prove that.

Edit: I've started on Pettit, Baylor and Dr. J (finished the Win Share numbers) but one thing I'm wondering, do I include Dr. J's years in the ABA? I hadn't done it for Moses but that wasn't really an issue for him since his best years were in the NBA.

This brings up a good question in general, how do the ABA stats translate over to the NBA. I was looking at how they calculate Win Shares on basketball-reference and there's not mention of the ABA on the page. So it would appear that they calculate it the same way, which could be an issue because its 2 different leagues.

Stuckey#3
07-26-2011, 12:34 AM
Is it part of the NBA fanbase culture not to respect the past players that built the league? In baseball you still have guys arguing that Babe Ruth, Joe D and Ted Williams are GOAT/Top five players and the rest of the ranks are filled with guys from different decades... In football you find fans arguing that Jim Brown, Dick Butkis and Johhny Unitas are GOAT...

There is no way the overwhelming majority of top all time NBA players came from two decades. Baseball and Football have changed just as much as basketball and the players have improved in athleticism and innovations that change the game. But NBA fans consistently talk **** about previous generations. Is it because basketball is more about flash and thrills then some other sports? Or is our fan base just disrespectful and ingnorant to the history of the league?

NBAfan4life
07-26-2011, 07:10 AM
Is it part of the NBA fanbase culture not to respect the past players that built the league? In baseball you still have guys arguing that Babe Ruth, Joe D and Ted Williams are GOAT/Top five players and the rest of the ranks are filled with guys from different decades... In football you find fans arguing that Jim Brown, Dick Butkis and Johhny Unitas are GOAT...

There is no way the overwhelming majority of top all time NBA players came from two decades. Baseball and Football have changed just as much as basketball and the players have improved in athleticism and innovations that change the game. But NBA fans consistently talk **** about previous generations. Is it because basketball is more about flash and thrills then some other sports? Or is our fan base just disrespectful and ingnorant to the history of the league?

You have seen the list we have voted in haven't you? They're only 4 current players in the top 13, and for there to be 4 you have to include the Dream.

shooterone
07-26-2011, 08:19 AM
Just a quick question, Why doesn't 'nique get any mention in any polls? I didn't vote for him but I would think that he would get some votes he did win some dunk contests over Jordan in a time when it was actually a DUNK contest, and he won a scoring title, averaged 25/game for a career. Not saying he was the best or even the 14th best but just figured someone would vote for him.

Stuckey#3
07-26-2011, 07:01 PM
8 of PSD's top 10 played basketball in two distinctive decades. All I'm saying is that players from other decades do not get enough respect. In MLB, NFL and NHL it seems that fans give the pioneers more respect.

1. Michael Jordan
4. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
9. Hakeem Olajuwon

and

10. Tim Duncan
7. Shaquille O'neal
8. Kobe Bryant

MTar786
07-26-2011, 09:02 PM
kg ***** on malone in so many ways its crazy.. even in the nerds who use advanced stats

MTar786
07-26-2011, 09:16 PM
:clap: This. However, with others included, I would put it this way:

1. Robinson
2. Garnett
3. Pettit
4. Stockton
5. Dr. J
6. Baylor
7. Malone

That is how my votes will stack up moving forward...

:clap: i agree with you for the most part.
but for me

1. Robinson/Garnett
2. Robinson/Garnett
3. Mikan
4. malone
5. barkley
6. baylor
7. dr. J
8. petit
9. stockton
10. thomas
11. nowitzki
12. kidd
13. ewing
14. iverson
15. lebron
16. wade
17. payton
18. Chris webber? wilkins maybe?
19. tmac
20. frazier
21. drexler