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claffyT
07-24-2011, 02:12 AM
wondering how many the majority of people think kobe was the best player in the league for per reg season

flea
07-24-2011, 02:14 AM
Maybe 2008 and that's probably it.

Sadds The Gr8
07-24-2011, 02:16 AM
05-07 or 08. so 2-3 years?

dnewguy
07-24-2011, 02:18 AM
None.

nickdymez
07-24-2011, 02:20 AM
hahahahhhahahaha

knightstemplar
07-24-2011, 02:24 AM
2005-06
2006-07
2007-08
2008-09
2009-10

5

players, former players, gms, coaches opinions > your opinion

nickdymez
07-24-2011, 02:26 AM
In real life, about 6.. In PSD life, none...

mdm692
07-24-2011, 02:31 AM
In real life, about 6.. In PSD life, none...

so true. . .i hate kobe cuz of my suns roots but he was the best player in the league for 4-6 years his team just sucked

flea
07-24-2011, 02:31 AM
2005-06
2006-07
2007-08
2008-09
2009-10

5

players, former players, gms, coaches opinions > your opinion

Hey everybody while Tim Duncan was winning rings Kobe was too busy being the best player in the league. At least Kobe can throw his teammates under the bus while Duncan made a one-trick pony point guard and a 6th man look like stars.

THE GIPPER
07-24-2011, 02:32 AM
every season kobe ever played he was the best and every time he steps on the court hes the best player. on an all time scale he is the GOAT and you cant tell me nothin cuz nba players and commentators say it too......

Sadds The Gr8
07-24-2011, 02:38 AM
i'd love to know which 6 seasons Kobe was the best.

JordansBulls
07-24-2011, 02:54 AM
every season kobe ever played he was the best and every time he steps on the court hes the best player. on an all time scale he is the GOAT and you cant tell me nothin cuz nba players and commentators say it too......

Is this some type of sick joke?

RevisIsland
07-24-2011, 02:54 AM
I'd say '05 through 2010, but it's debatable.

LosDoyers1
07-24-2011, 02:54 AM
At least four or five seasons. It's a shame most of those years is when he was playing with guys like Smush Parker and Kwame Brown.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-24-2011, 03:06 AM
Is this some type of sick joke?

Some people don't live in reality

Chronz
07-24-2011, 03:11 AM
A season or 2, lol at the guy who kept alternating when duncan was top dog, wonder why

AIRMAR72
07-24-2011, 03:21 AM
IN 08 -kobe played well even tho the MVP shouldve been chris paul or bron.. kobe got out played by paul pierce in 08 finals, but kobe also had a solid yr in 09.. THE best performance by kobe in any career playoff game in THE 09 playoff run, people fail to understand kobe has NEVER dominated the league like bron or wade at both ends or played the game efficiently like wade and bron along with OTHER great player from past yrs the question should be has kobe EVER shot over 47% or 50% has he ever been top 5 in steals or blocks in how many season

PatsSoxKnicks
07-24-2011, 03:29 AM
A season or 2, lol at the guy who kept alternating when duncan was top dog, wonder why

He forgot a season lol

marj987
07-24-2011, 03:39 AM
Isn't that what "MVP" means?

Yanks All Day
07-24-2011, 03:52 AM
He has consistently been in the top 2-3 for his entire career, which to me is impressive enough. LeBron has been the best in basketball since 09, Duncan, Iverson, Garnett, and Shaq have all been the best at certain periods of time. Kobe was probably the best in basketball from 05-07/08. Consistent excellence makes him an all time great.

Korman12
07-24-2011, 03:53 AM
Staying out of this.

bolts4ever
07-24-2011, 03:54 AM
kinda funny to read how many tears WAS Kobe he best??? should be how many years will Kobe be the best.

Name another player since 2004(Shaqs departure from LA):

with more Finals appeances Kobe 3 (2008-10)
more titles Titles 2(08-09,09,10)

and Kobe still has the best overall game in the league(offense,defense)

04-present(people act like Kobe pushin a walker)

Kinda sad many wont be able to apprecciate greatness until its gone or until Lebron chokes again!!:D:D:D

Kashmir13579
07-24-2011, 03:59 AM
Is this some type of sick joke?

Its probably a joke.

SaimuKala
07-24-2011, 04:03 AM
IN 08 -kobe played well even tho the MVP shouldve been chris paul or bron.. kobe got out played by paul pierce in 08 finals, but kobe also had a solid yr in 09.. THE best performance by kobe in any career playoff game in THE 09 playoff run, people fail to understand kobe has NEVER dominated the league like bron or wade at both ends or played the game efficiently like wade and bron along with OTHER great player from past yrs the question should be has kobe EVER shot over 47% or 50% has he ever been top 5 in steals or blocks in how many season

:facepalm: You can't compare Kobe with Wade and LeBron by looking they're FG%. For Wade and LeBron most of they're points come from the paint. Seriously, who cares that Kobe hasn't been in the top 5 in steals or blocks. Steve Nash has never been either but he's still better than Rondo imo.

LakersMaster24
07-24-2011, 04:25 AM
2005
2006
2008
2009

Just personal opinion. But he was a Top 5 player for the past 7 years quite honestly...

naps
07-24-2011, 04:37 AM
May be just a year. 2005-06. I can't find another season when he was the best.

Fnom11
07-24-2011, 04:53 AM
0. He only looked so good because he took like 30+ shots a game.

MTar786
07-24-2011, 04:59 AM
i think kobe was the best in

arguably 03
05
06
07
08
09
arguably 10

6 or 7

sventhedog
07-24-2011, 05:33 AM
it's hard to count it exactly but one thing's for sure.

when kobe was the best player in the league, no one could question him like how people question lebron for allegedly being the best player today.

it's just that definitive. he was the best this or that year.

when it comes to lebron. lebron is the best player today except this except that. lol.

naps
07-24-2011, 06:03 AM
it's hard to count it exactly but one thing's for sure.

when kobe was the best player in the league, no one could question him like how people question lebron for allegedly being the best player today.

it's just that definitive. he was the best this or that year.

when it comes to lebron. lebron is the best player today except this except that. lol.

LOL. Kobe had no years like that. Can you please mention some?

sventhedog
07-24-2011, 06:25 AM
LOL. Kobe had no years like that. Can you please mention some?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/ian_thomsen/03/26/weekly.quiz/
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/david_dupree/03/04/kobe.lebron/
http://www.aolnews.com/2010/06/18/kobes-the-best-right-now-but-not-ever/
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/418433-is-kobe-bryant-really-the-nbas-top-player-ask-lebron-james

NYKalltheway
07-24-2011, 07:08 AM
2005-6
2006-7 (inflated stats -> too many shots, but I'll go with the consensus that he was the best)
2007-8

These 3 he was DEFINITELY the best. He was always top 5, mostly top 3 since 2004-5 though. And some could debate he was the best in other seasons as well, it's not far from the reality.

GoPacers33
07-24-2011, 08:49 AM
3 years

wjmoffatt
07-24-2011, 08:55 AM
Can't believe some of you dumb SOBs think that Kobe Bryant was never or only the best player in the league for one year! :facepalm:

Hawkeye15
07-24-2011, 10:01 AM
05-06' was the only season that I think he was the best player throughout the regular season.

The reason Kobe is considered as great as he is individually, is because he has been able to be a top 3-5 player for 12-13 years. That is very, very difficult to do. But there have been a few players with better individual years, but hardly any with the flat out consistency of being at such a high level for over a decade.

justinnum1
07-24-2011, 10:05 AM
1, maybe 2 years

JordansBulls
07-24-2011, 10:18 AM
How in the world was he the best in 2005 and he didn't even make the playoffs nor 1st or 2nd team all nba?

meloman1592
07-24-2011, 10:26 AM
I'll say this...kobe was never the best in the nba each time he won a ring. Back in the 3peat era, it was arguably shaq,t mac,ai. His last 2 championships, its been lebron.

Hawkeye15
07-24-2011, 10:28 AM
How in the world was he the best in 2005 and he didn't even make the playoffs nor 1st or 2nd team all nba?

because his absolute peak just so happened to be when his roster had a couple of down years.

ManRam
07-24-2011, 10:31 AM
I don't think he can be in the conversation until about 2003-2004. He wasn't even the best player on his team until then. The last year Shaq was in LA, Kobe was arguably as good, if not better than Shaq. I don't think he was, but I wouldn't totally shoot down the argument.

I fully believe KG was the best player in basketball in the 03-04 season.

Then come the Steve Nash MVPs. I don't think many people will stand behind him being the best player those two years.

04-05 was probably one of Kobe's worst years in his prime, if not his worst (I think it was). I won't for a second buy that he was the best player that year. KG, Duncan, Shaq, Dirk, even Amare and Nash etc. were all probably better. Kobe was a 3rd team All-NBA player that year.

05-06 was probably his best individual year. The team wasn't great though. Team success is why so many people regard Kobe so highly, so it might be a bit of a double standard here. I don't care about rings as much as most, so I won't knock him here. His team sucked; no player could win with that.

I think you could argue that Dirk (lead league in WS) or LeBron were better that year, and do so easily, but I'll give Kobe the benefit of the doubt.

06-07 is the year LeBron started getting buzz as being the best player with his Finals run with a really poor supporting cast. Dirk AGAIN lead the league in win shares, LeBron again was second. Duncan had a phenomenal season, and I give him the best player nod this season, especially with his championship. It's between him and Dirk (deserving MVP).

07-08 LeBron is charging again. This was Chris Paul's year though. He deserved the MVP without a doubt. Kobe won because his career deserved an MVP, but Paul was the best player easily. Lead the league in win shares and WS/48. Second in PER. Amazingly efficient scoring. Amazing defense (4 steals a game). Insane passing numbers. Took a weak cast to a game 7 vs. SA. Boston won it all.

08-09 you get Kobe winning again, but you have LeBron basically as the universally considered best player in the league. Some won't buy into it, but it's hard to look objectively and see otherwise. He carried a weak cast to the best record in the NBA and a trip to the ECF. Kobe did win, and I know winning makes you better than you are, so if you want to say he was the best this year, go ahead. He wasn't though. LeBron James was putting up some of the most gaudy numbers we've ever seen. Insane PER and WS numbers. Amazing PPG/RPG/APG numbers as well.

09-10 same thing as the year before. LeBron is the best player, Kobe won the ring.

10-11 Not a chance in hell he was the best.


I have one year. I'll accept up to 2-3. Maybe 4. Anything more and it's a bit of a stretch IMO.

nickdymez
07-24-2011, 11:01 AM
i'd love to know which 6 seasons Kobe was the best.

And id love to tell you..

THE GIPPER
07-24-2011, 11:10 AM
Is this some type of sick joke?

yes

ManRam
07-24-2011, 11:29 AM
And id love to tell you..

Well, are you?

I really think if you go back and break it down, it's hard to justify him being the best for more than 2-3 years. If you want to say that the two years he won without Shaq vaults him to the top because he won, then you have to be consistent with that logic and give it to other guys every other year in his career (Duncan in 07, Wade in 06, Duncan in 05 etc). Can't use double standards.

If you want to break it down by individual success and statistics, you're not going to convince many that he was the best simply based on individual accomplishments more than maybe 2 seasons.

I personally think it's really hard to show him being the best for more than a few years unless you get contradictory with your arguments.

AIRMAR72
07-24-2011, 11:39 AM
I'll say this...kobe was never the best in the nba each time he won a ring. Back in the 3peat era, it was arguably shaq,t mac,ai. His last 2 championships, its been lebron. THANK YOU FOR YOUR HONESITY those are the true reason why i dont think kobe shouldnt be consider GREAT that word gets abuse on PSD

ManRam
07-24-2011, 11:45 AM
I'm adding a poll, because I can ;)

Sly Guy
07-24-2011, 11:45 AM
well clearly the people involved with the league think only one. One MVP = one year. But then again, some people think that year it should have been chris paul, so maybe none?

:hide:

NeutralFan
07-24-2011, 11:50 AM
14 and counting

AIRMAR72
07-24-2011, 12:01 PM
:facepalm: You can't compare Kobe with Wade and LeBron by looking they're FG%. For Wade and LeBron most of they're points come from the paint. Seriously, who cares that Kobe hasn't been in the top 5 in steals or blocks. Steve Nash has never been either but he's still better than Rondo imo.
NASH IS NASH but read THIS wade and bron both came in the league BETTER than kobe ask any true unbias basketball player, both wade and bron IQ for the game were superior compare to kobe they make their shots(stronger WILL powers) they(wade N bron) make their teammates better both natural leaders when compare to kobe, but kobe post up game is better since he patent is game from jordan,kobe also went to the DREAM(hakeem) for additional help and still got the broomstick handed to him from dirk and company kobe scoring 1point in the 4qtr 0dimes 0steal 0blocks and you guys wanna label him great LOL

Sadds The Gr8
07-24-2011, 12:03 PM
And id love to tell you..

then go ahead.

THE GIPPER
07-24-2011, 12:19 PM
I'm adding a poll, because I can ;)

:worthy:

Ebbs
07-24-2011, 12:44 PM
He was a top 5 player for a long time. But the absolute best player in the league only onecd maybe twice

Kobes a Killer
07-24-2011, 12:45 PM
NASH IS NASH but read THIS wade and bron both came in the league BETTER than kobe ask any true unbias basketball player, both wade and bron IQ for the game were superior compare to kobe they make their shots(stronger WILL powers) they(wade N bron) make their teammates better both natural leaders when compare to kobe, but kobe post up game is better since he patent is game from jordan,kobe also went to the DREAM(hakeem) for additional help and still got the broomstick handed to him from dirk and company kobe scoring 1point in the 4qtr 0dimes 0steal 0blocks and you guys wanna label him great LOL
:facepalm:
Posts like this make me sick to my stomach

010957
07-24-2011, 12:47 PM
I'm a nuggets fan, not at all a kobe fan. BUT!!!! lets all be honest, if you watch the NBA, you have to admit that out of all the players you fav team plays against, out of all the big players, kobe is the scariest with the ball. It's true, i hate him because he's so good. Admit lol. Any one who says he's ******* is a stooge. I believe he's been the best player in the league for a lot of years. He has deserved more MVP's than he has received.

C-Style
07-24-2011, 02:04 PM
4-6 doesn't sound as ******** as saying 1 or none.

ChiSox219
07-24-2011, 02:05 PM
Jordan
Shaq
Duncan
Lebron

0

flea
07-24-2011, 02:05 PM
4-6 doesn't sound as ******** as saying 1 or none.

It's not ********, Kobe just had the misfortune of being about the same age as the best power forward ever to play the game.

nickdymez
07-24-2011, 02:05 PM
NASH IS NASH but read THIS wade and bron both came in the league BETTER than kobe ask any true unbias basketball player, both wade and bron IQ for the game were superior compare to kobe they make their shots(stronger WILL powers) they(wade N bron) make their teammates better both natural leaders when compare to kobe, but kobe post up game is better since he patent is game from jordan,kobe also went to the DREAM(hakeem) for additional help and still got the broomstick handed to him from dirk and company kobe scoring 1point in the 4qtr 0dimes 0steal 0blocks and you guys wanna label him great LOL

This is why i dont take yall serious

tredigs
07-24-2011, 02:15 PM
Isn't that what "MVP" means?

Of course not. Was D. Rose even a top 5 player in the NBA last year? Not a chance.

Anyway, the best has been arguable and subjective over the last decade, and Kobe has been top 1-5 for virtually all of it. The best? Not sure he's ever clearly been the best player in any one season like most other All-Time greats. But he makes his argument.

ManRam
07-24-2011, 02:17 PM
Can any of you who said 7+ explain to me why?

How was Kobe the best player in the league at any time before 2004? He wasn't even the best player on his own team, let alone better than Jordan, Duncan, Malone, KG, etc.

In 2004-2005: there is no argument at all. He wasn't a top 10 player that year.

In 2005-2006: I think this year Kobe has the strongest argument.

In 2006-2007: Explain to me why he was better than Dirk, LeBron (made the Finals) or Duncan that season.

2007-2008: Convince me he deserved the MVP over Paul. I won't argue this one too much, but I do firmly believe Paul was better that year.

2008-present: Explain to me how he was better than LeBron. If you're going to simply say that winning rings vaults him to the top, then you can't vote for Kobe in any of his other seasons without being hypocritical. It's very hard to logically argue Kobe being a better individual than LeBron from 2008 on out...


The most generous # I can give Kobe is from 2006 to 2010. He was not the best player this year, and was never it before 2005. No one at the time ever felt that way. That's 5 years MAX.


I just haven't seen a single person saying Kobe was the best 3-4+ seasons break it down year to year. I'd love to see someone articulate how he was the best for 7 seasons.

nickdymez
07-24-2011, 02:19 PM
No one likes kobe!!!!!!! Why is this even a question??? Especially on psd!!

Chronz
07-24-2011, 02:27 PM
Bro take your logic out of here, your asking for too much here. Sometimes you gotta let them who will not be named live in their fantasy world.

Chronz
07-24-2011, 02:29 PM
No one likes kobe!!!!!!! Why is this even a question??? Especially on psd!!

Your right, this is the kind of question we should only ask on club lakers or something. Definitely none of the big bball forums not designated for laker fans.

Bruno
07-24-2011, 02:36 PM
Very tough to say.

He has finished top 3 in MVP voting 5 times since 2002.

He has finished top 5 in MVP voting eight of the past nine years.

Playing during the primes of what will eventually be three top ten players (Shaq, Duncan, LeBron) weighs into that decision; a lot of peak-elite talent was in the league during his era.

nickdymez
07-24-2011, 02:36 PM
Your right, this is the kind of question we should only ask on club lakers or something. Definitely none of the big bball forums not designated for laker fans.

I think your in love with me

Tony_Starks
07-24-2011, 02:54 PM
-He's never been the best

-His 81 points was a fluke

-Any nba player can score 81 pts, they just all choose not to

-Getting a team that had Kwame, Mihm, Smush Parker and Luke Walton in the starting lineup in the West and pushing Phoenix to 7 games was no big deal. Those were really underrated players.

-He's been all defense for years, so what?

-His championships were gift wrapped, all he had to do was show up and contribute next to nothing offensively or defensively.

-He never even defends the other teams best player will while putting up numbers as the whole team is trying to stop him.

-His relentless scoring spree when his team was not very good is really overrated, other players have put up multiple 50 + games too!

-Dropping the most points in the Garden since Bernard King, yeah ok who cares besides the history books?

-The rings, the finals MVP's, ok yeah he has more than you're current favorite player but is that REALLY such a big deal? Since when does winning multiple championships make you such a great player anyway?

ManRam
07-24-2011, 03:04 PM
-He's never been the best

-His 81 points was a fluke

-Any nba player can score 81 pts, they just all choose not to

-Getting a team that had Kwame, Mihm, Smush Parker and Luke Walton in the starting lineup in the West and pushing Phoenix to 7 games was no big deal. Those were really underrated players.

-He's been all defense for years, so what?

-His championships were gift wrapped, all he had to do was show up and contribute next to nothing offensively or defensively.

-He never even defends the other teams best player will while putting up numbers as the whole team is trying to stop him.

-His relentless scoring spree when his team was not very good is really overrated, other players have put up multiple 50 + games too!

-Dropping the most points in the Garden since Bernard King, yeah ok who cares besides the history books?

-The rings, the finals MVP's, ok yeah he has more than you're current favorite player but is that REALLY such a big deal? Since when does winning multiple championships make you such a great player anyway?

Instead of sarcasm, how about a real argument ;) Yet to see one that's even remotely convincing as to why he was it for more than 3 years. All you get is sarcasm, "everyone hates Kobe" and "I'd love to tell you why...".

None of those things are wrong, but none of those things make you the best player in a given year.

I'm not saying he wasn't the best for 3+ years, I'm just saying I haven't seen a good argument why.

I'm sorry, chronz, for trying to get people to think and back up their claims with reason :shrug:

nickdymez
07-24-2011, 03:08 PM
Instead of sarcasm, how about a real argument ;) Yet to see one that's even remotely convincing as to why he was it for more than 3 years. All you get is sarcasm, "everyone hates Kobe" and "I'd love to tell you why...".

None of those things are wrong, but none of those things make you the best player in a given year.

I'm not saying he wasn't the best for 3+ years, I'm just saying I haven't seen a good argument why.

I'm sorry, chronz, for trying to get people to think and back up their claims with reason :shrug:

His sarcasm is his argument smart guy.. Around here thats what you have to do because people here are foolish.. People want me to "debate" with them as well, but only want to debate "ws" and "per".. Im not debating that, i cant.. But those are made up stats...

ManRam
07-24-2011, 03:13 PM
His sarcasm is his argument smart guy.. Around here thats what you have to do because people here are foolish.. People want me to "debate" with them as well, but only want to debate "ws" and "per".. Im not debating that, i cant.. But those are made up stats...

You can answer these questions (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18634614&postcount=59) without those stats...

Do you really think he was ever the best player any year before 2004? I don't think anyone at that time felt that was the case. To get 7+, like some suggest, you'd have to thus say he was the best player ever single year from then on out.

Do you realized that he wasn't really elite in 2005? You can't possibly think he was the best player that year? Can you.

How about 2006? 2007? 2008? 2009? 2010? 2011? Break it down.

Break it down by year-by-year. Don't just pull a number out of your ***.

Having 5 rings, dropping x amount of points at MSG, and any of those arguments don't make you the best player in a given year.

LakersEaglesLA
07-24-2011, 03:21 PM
How do some of you Kobe haters sleep at night? The obvious lies are ridiculous. I know you hate Kobe and the Lakers because of their success and beautiful weather but lets be real here. Kobe has been the best player in the nba at lest 6 years. Players in the nba have said Kobe is the best and they actually fear his game. When he plays your teams he strikes fear through the tv just like Jordan did. When Kobe was unhappy with the Lakers direction and requested a trade all you guys were on your knees praying that your team would give everything and the kitchen sink to get him. Thats the measure of the best player in the nba. CONSISTANTLY. But maybe you have to be an athlete yourself to understand how good he has been.

Sadds The Gr8
07-24-2011, 03:25 PM
You can answer these questions (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18634614&postcount=59) without those stats...

Do you really think he was ever the best player any year before 2004? I don't think anyone at that time felt that was the case. To get 7+, like some suggest, you'd have to thus say he was the best player ever single year from then on out.

Do you realized that he wasn't really elite in 2005? You can't possibly think he was the best player that year? Can you.

How about 2006? 2007? 2008? 2009? 2010? 2011? Break it down.

Break it down by year-by-year. Don't just pull a number out of your ***.

Having 5 rings, dropping x amount of points at MSG, and any of those arguments don't make you the best player in a given year.
U actually expect more outta that guy? all he does is ***** and complain about people here not liking Kobe. I've never seen him make ONE convincing argument in any debate he's ever been in, hell I haven't even seen him try. and when you ask him to make a case for his arguments, he just ignores it. His replies are just "you guys don't watch basketball" or "advanced stats are trash". All he does is cry...

claffyT
07-24-2011, 03:25 PM
im not a fan of kobe or a hater but i think he was the best in 05-06, regardless of the advanced stats (even if they were in favour of lebron by a little margin), i still think kobe was the best that year. lebron was also great that year but he was a little inexperienced and he stat padded a lot. i also think kobe was the best in 06-07 (def 2nd half of season), his number were down but so were other star players

Jewelz0376
07-24-2011, 03:43 PM
I can only imagine that stuff that's been said in this thread w/o reading it but here goes imo he was the best in

02-03
05-06
06-07
07-08
08-09
09-10

So 6 for me..

I think the year after the 3 peat when Shaq's work ethic was starting to get worse and worse and Kobe went for 30/7/6 while being 1st team all D he was the best...After that it was Duncan or KG..Then since 05-06 I had Kobe as the best player until this season... Of course all of those years you could make a case for Shaq, Duncan, KG, and Lebron...

LakersEaglesLA
07-24-2011, 03:48 PM
Stats are not the only factor in being the best player in the league. If you KNOW BASKETBALL you know who the best player is. Its OBVIOUS. When you watched Jordan from 90 to 98 you knew he was the best. When you watched Bill Russell of the 60s Best. Kereem Abdul Jabbar of the 70s Best. When you watched Magic in the 80s you Knew he and Larry Bird were the best. Shaq from 99 to 2002 Best Kobe from 2003 to 2010 Best. You dont need stats USE YOUR EYES!!! that is if you know basketball.

JWO35
07-24-2011, 03:50 PM
Never, since Shaq has been around since Kobe entered the league...

BlitzBlud4
07-24-2011, 03:56 PM
I dont think he was ever the best player in the league for a season. He was top 5 for numerous years and top 3 for a few, but I dont know about the best. His best season was 2005/2006 and he was "argurably" the best, though I would probably give the slight edge to LeBron, or Dirk.

BlitzBlud4
07-24-2011, 04:15 PM
Best player(s) in the league per season starting since 2000 IMO:
1999/2000: Shaq
2000/2001: Shaq
2001/2002: Shaq
2002/2003: McGrady
2003/2004: Garnett
2004/2005: Garnett, Duncan, or Shaq
2005/2006: LeBron, Dirk, or Kobe
2006/2007: Dirk
2007/2008: LeBron, Paul
2008/2009: LeBron, Wade
2009/2010: LeBron
2010/2011: LeBron, Dwight

Sadds The Gr8
07-24-2011, 04:18 PM
I can only imagine that stuff that's been said in this thread w/o reading it but here goes imo he was the best in

02-03
05-06
06-07
07-08
08-09
09-10

So 6 for me..

I think the year after the 3 peat when Shaq's work ethic was starting to get worse and worse and Kobe went for 30/7/6 while being 1st team all D he was the best...After that it was Duncan or KG..Then since 05-06 I had Kobe as the best player until this season... Of course all of those years you could make a case for Shaq, Duncan, KG, and Lebron...

no way.

Hawkeye15
07-24-2011, 04:23 PM
For anyone saying 1 or more, I would love to see you make a case, year by year. It may help actual discussion.

WadeKobe
07-24-2011, 04:29 PM
Stats are not the only factor in being the best player in the league. If you KNOW BASKETBALL you know who the best player is. Its OBVIOUS. When you watched Jordan from 90 to 98 you knew he was the best. When you watched Bill Russell of the 60s Best. Kereem Abdul Jabbar of the 70s Best. When you watched Magic in the 80s you Knew he and Larry Bird were the best. Shaq from 99 to 2002 Best Kobe from 2003 to 2010 Best. You dont need stats USE YOUR EYES!!! that is if you know basketball.

No. If you use your eyes and know basketball, it's been pretty clear from 2007-present that LeBron James is the best player in the NBA. In that time period, the closest second was Dwyane Wade. It's quite obvious while watching them and looking at stats.

THE GIPPER
07-24-2011, 04:30 PM
Best player(s) in the league per season starting since 2000 IMO:
1999/2000: Shaq
2000/2001: Shaq
2001/2002: Shaq
2002/2003: McGrady
2003/2004: Garnett
2004/2005: Garnett, Duncan, or Shaq
2005/2006: LeBron, Dirk, or Kobe
2006/2007: Dirk
2007/2008: LeBron, Paul
2008/2009: LeBron, Wade
2009/2010: LeBron
2010/2011: LeBron, Dwight

good list

C-Style
07-24-2011, 04:38 PM
For anyone saying 1 or more, I would love to see you make a case, year by year. It may help actual discussion.



02-03- Most well rounded player and most clutch. Mastered the game

05-06 - 06-07 He was at his peak, no one could match what he was doing offensively.


07-08 - 09-10 Took his team to the NBA Finals 3 times in a role , He became the clear leader of the whole NBA.


You could not find 1 weakness in his game in most of this years. 1 of the most clutch, could rebound and pass, defend, post, hit the 3, midrange, drive and so on. You may have players that were offensively better or some stats could be better such as rebound or assist. but you could also pick a lot of their weakness, such as no defense, not clutch, no 3's, no post moves. and so on. Kobe has been the most complete player in the decade.

naps
07-24-2011, 04:41 PM
I'm a nuggets fan, not at all a kobe fan. BUT!!!! lets all be honest, if you watch the NBA, you have to admit that out of all the players you fav team plays against, out of all the big players, kobe is the scariest with the ball. It's true, i hate him because he's so good. Admit lol. Any one who says he's ******* is a stooge. I believe he's been the best player in the league for a lot of years. He has deserved more MVP's than he has received.

Can you back that up? He didn't even deserve the one he got.

nimzboy
07-24-2011, 04:41 PM
i'd love to know which 6 seasons Kobe was the best.
this

2000-2004 Not even comparable 2 any of the best
2005-2006 and 2006-2007 maybe and thats it, you could argue that guys like wade, nash, dirk, duncan, and james were better
2007-2008 James
2008-2009 James
2009-2010 James
2010-2011 James or Dirk

BKdoubleStacker
07-24-2011, 04:43 PM
why am i not surprised that the same people who blatantly bash kobe in other threads show up in this one?

How the hell was he not "elite" in 04??? :facepalm:

Do you guys not remember how great of a defender he was?

and dirk has never been better than kobe, simply for the fact that he is not a good defender and a less than average rebounder for his position

BKdoubleStacker
07-24-2011, 04:44 PM
this

2000-2004 Not even comparable 2 any of the best
2005-2006 and 2006-2007 maybe and thats it, you could argue that guys like wade, nash, dirk, duncan, and james were better
2007-2008 James
2008-2009 James
2009-2010 James
2010-2011 James or Dirk

Hey I was planning on visiting Miami this summer, hows the weather right now?

BKdoubleStacker
07-24-2011, 04:46 PM
Can you back that up? He didn't even deserve the one he got.

hmm how about the seasons he took that sorry *** team with starting PG smush parker and kwame brown to the playoffs and almost knocked off the best regular season record suns?

bulls leakage
07-24-2011, 04:49 PM
Andddd Lakers fans regain the title of most annoying fans on PSD...

Hawkeye15
07-24-2011, 04:50 PM
2000- Shaq
2001- Shaq
2002- Shaq
2003- TMac
2004- KG
2005- Duncan
2006- Kobe (though Duncan, and Dirk have a legit case here, and LeBron may as well)
2007- Dirk
2008- LeBron/Paul
2009- LeBron
2010- LeBron
2011- LeBron/Dwight

As I said earlier. I think the argument for Kobe being THE best is 1 year. I also said, the reason we talk about Kobe as an all time great is because his prime has been so long. But his peak has been bettered by a decent amount of players.

Hawkeye15
07-24-2011, 04:52 PM
why am i not surprised that the same people who blatantly bash kobe in other threads show up in this one?

How the hell was he not "elite" in 04??? :facepalm:

Do you guys not remember how great of a defender he was?

and dirk has never been better than kobe, simply for the fact that he is not a good defender and a less than average rebounder for his position

he has always been elite. But that isn't the question. In 03-04', KG led the entire league in total point and rebounds, and was the best defender in the NBA.

In Dirk's MVP year, Dirk's numbers smashed Kobe's. And he has always been underrated as a defender due to him struggling early. Defensive reputations are interesting. If you come out of the gate as a bad defender, people have a problem ever labeling you a good defender, regardless of whether you become one or not. And on the opposite side of the spectrum, if a player is a good defender early, even when he completely regresses, that repuation carries with them as a good defender.

JordansBulls
07-24-2011, 04:53 PM
2000- Shaq
2001- Shaq
2002- Shaq
2003- TMac
2004- KG
2005- Duncan
2006- Kobe (though Duncan, and Dirk have a legit case here, and LeBron may as well)
2007- Dirk
2008- LeBron/Paul
2009- LeBron
2010- LeBron
2011- LeBron/Dwight

As I said earlier. I think the argument for Kobe being THE best is 1 year. I also said, the reason we talk about Kobe as an all time great is because his prime has been so long. But his peak has been bettered by a decent amount of players.

Lebron was not better than Kobe in 2008. And 2003 is wrong, Duncan was the best. He led his team to the best record, won mvp and won finals mvp.

naps
07-24-2011, 05:01 PM
In 2005-2006: I think this year Kobe has the strongest argument.


I always wonder why people just crown Kobe as the best player that year.

Here, take a look:

Kobe: 35.4 ppg/ 5.3 rpg/ 4.5 apg (45% FG, 27.3 FGA)

LeBron: 31.4/7 rpg/ 6.6 apg (48% FG, 23.9 FGA)


Now take a look at the advanced stats:

LeBron dominates in ORtg, DRtg, OWS, DWS, WS, WS/48, PER, TS%, eFG%. All of that while with a less USG%.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2006&p2=jamesle01&y2=2006

How's Kobe better than LeBron again? LeBron was more efficient and flat out dominant statistically. Also, LeBron led his team to a 50-32 record and conf semifinals, While Kobe led lakers to 45-37 record and a first round exit.

naps
07-24-2011, 05:07 PM
Best player(s) in the league per season starting since 2000 IMO:
1999/2000: Shaq
2000/2001: Shaq
2001/2002: Shaq
2002/2003: McGrady
2003/2004: Garnett
2004/2005: Garnett, Duncan, or Shaq
2005/2006: LeBron, Dirk, or Kobe
2006/2007: Dirk
2007/2008: LeBron, Paul
2008/2009: LeBron, Wade
2009/2010: LeBron
2010/2011: LeBron, Dwight

Pretty much that's what I think.

tredigs
07-24-2011, 05:09 PM
Lebron was not better than Kobe in 2008. And 2003 is wrong, Duncan was the best. He led his team to the best record, won mvp and won finals mvp.

You say this like it's definitive, but a case could easily be made that Lebron had already surpassed Kobe in 07/08. I would say he was. And if I had to choose a #2, it would be Chris Paul. Kobe 3rd.

Also, in your opinion - who was the best player in the NBA in 2011?

naps
07-24-2011, 05:10 PM
05-06 - 06-07 He was at his peak, no one could match what he was doing offensively.


Really? Then read my post above on the same page. Prove me wrong.

naps
07-24-2011, 05:12 PM
hmm how about the seasons he took that sorry *** team with starting PG smush parker and kwame brown to the playoffs and almost knocked off the best regular season record suns?

No, show me another MVP with a 45-37 record. MVP award is given for regular season record and Kobe's was nowhere it.

flea
07-24-2011, 05:14 PM
2000- Shaq
2001- Shaq
2002- Duncan
2003- Duncan
2004- KG
2005- Duncan
2006- Lebron
2007- Duncan
2008- Paul
2009- LeBron
2010- LeBron
2011- Dwight

naps
07-24-2011, 05:15 PM
You say this like it's definitive, but a case could easily be made that Lebron had already surpassed Kobe in 07/08. I would say he was. And if I had to choose a #2, it would be Chris Paul. Kobe 3rd.

Also, in your opinion - who was the best player in the NBA in 2011?

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:
I don't think he's gonna answer that. Not a safe place for him to say Dirk.

smith&wesson
07-24-2011, 05:16 PM
why do ppl love to hate kobe ?

if you say he has 5 rings psd says "ya 3 of them were cuz of shaq" reality check! shaq wasnt winning rings before he teamed up with kobe. shaq got one 1 ring with out kobe .. kobe got 2 rings with out shaq... so far.

which player who was competing with kobe in the 90's is still playing at a high level ?? who is kobes age and compared to lebron the last 6 seasons ? only this last season ppl are saying he is starting to decline. prior to this last season lebron himself would say that kobe is the best player in the league. you guys know better then lebron ? thats kobes direct competetor giving him his dues. yet you guys cant get kobe the respect he deserves.

lebron is now arguably the best in the league, but prior to this season it has been kobe since the last two years shaq was on the lakers.

also when shaq left and before gasol joined the team kobe deserved the mvp award. he willed his crap team to the 8th seed of the playoffs. this is a team that was less talented then the worst team in the league today. only reason he was robbed of those two mvp's was because of his case and the bad public image that came with it. being acused of rape cost kobe big time.

kobe how out lived and surpassed any one that came in the league in and around the same time as him and is still competing with the best of todays generation. at least give him his respect for this.

kobe has been the best in the league since the last 2 years shaq was on the lakers all the way up untill last year. stats show it, championships show it, all defensive teams prove it, all star selections, whatever you measure in which you want to use will prove kobe has dominated the league at least 5-6 years in his prime.

JordansBulls
07-24-2011, 05:17 PM
You say this like it's definitive, but a case could easily be made that Lebron had already surpassed Kobe in 07/08. I would say he was. And if I had to choose a #2, it would be Chris Paul. Kobe 3rd.

Also, in your opinion - who was the best player in the NBA in 2011?

In 2011 it was Dirk. He was the only allstar on his team while the Heat had 3 superstars in there prime and then remember the following:



Dallas
57-25,
Coach: Rick Carlisle (57-25)

PTS/G: 100.2 (11th of 30) ? Opp PTS/G: 96.0 (10th of 30)
SRS: 4.41 (8th of 30) ? Pace: 91.3 (18th of 30)
Off Rtg: 109.7 (8th of 30) ? Def Rtg: 105.0 (8th of 30)
Expected W-L: 53-29 (8th of 30)



Miami
58-24, 1st in NBA Southeast Division (Schedule and Results)
Coach: Erik Spoelstra (58-24)

PTS/G: 102.1 (8th of 30) ? Opp PTS/G: 94.6 (6th of 30)
SRS: 6.76 (1st of 30) ? Pace: 90.9 (20th of 30)
Off Rtg: 111.7 (3rd of 30) ? Def Rtg: 103.5 (5th of 30)
Expected W-L: 61-21 (2nd of 30)


Miami had a higher SRS rating, Allowed Fewer PPG, Averaged more PPG, had a higher Expected W-L, had a higher Offensive and Defensive Rating and the Mavs were missing 3 players in Caron Butler, Rodrigue Beaubois and Brendan Haywood in the Finals.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/matchup/_/teams/mavericks-heat


It was a monumental upset.

Not only that but Dirk beat the 2x defending champions as well without HCA and won the title without having HCA.


he only won the title with no other allstar and beat the 2x defending champs and then a team with 2 of the top 3/4 players in the league and who had 3 stars and won with 3 players out for the series and 2 for most of the playoffs and did so with a lesser SRS, Expected W-L record as well and point differential as well as a lower Drtg and Ortg

smith&wesson
07-24-2011, 05:19 PM
2000- Shaq
2001- Shaq
2002- Duncan
2003- Duncan
2004- KG
2005- Duncan
2006- Lebron
2007- Duncan
2008- Paul
2009- LeBron
2010- LeBron
2011- Dwight



Shaq did have years where he was the best
duncan did have years when he was the best
lebron has years and will have more as the best

Im not disagreeing with you, but the fact that kobes name is not up there is nothing but utter hate

Jamiecballer
07-24-2011, 05:21 PM
without going back through history i'll just go with the number that feels right off the top of my head. 2.

i was never really sure he was the best player in the NBA, therefore it couldn't have been too long.

tredigs
07-24-2011, 05:22 PM
In 2011 it was Dirk. He was the only allstar on his team while the Heat had 3 superstars in there prime and then remember the following:





It was a monumental upset.

Not only that but Dirk beat the 2x defending champions as well without HCA and won the title without having HCA.


he only won the title with no other allstar and beat the 2x defending champs and then a team with 2 of the top 3/4 players in the league and who had 3 stars and won with 3 players out for the series and 2 for most of the playoffs and did so with a lesser SRS, Expected W-L record as well and point differential as well as a lower Drtg and Ortg

All well and good, but just realize that you're picking the best player in the league based primarily on their playoff run. A guy who didn't finish top 5 in MVP voting and out of 121 votes, exactly zero placed Dirk #1. Doesn't help that he didn't crack the top 5 in PER, WS/48, or USG% for that matter.

I'm fine with your reasoning, but just realize that it's an uphill battle for you to make that argument.

Hawkeye15
07-24-2011, 05:24 PM
Lebron was not better than Kobe in 2008. And 2003 is wrong, Duncan was the best. He led his team to the best record, won mvp and won finals mvp.

I disagree. See, you factor team success way more than I do. You have also used a completely failed argument on LeBron's roster support with the Cavs in your Daniel Steele novel posts you save. Fact is, LeBron's advanced and basic numbers take a dump on Kobe's that year, who I feel was the 3rd best player that year.

McGrady was dominating the league that year. Led in tons of categories and had to be the best player on both sides of the floor for all 82 games and playoffs. A case can be made for Duncan, but you have to remember, I don't care about media awards when measuring who had the best individual season.

dj_jewlz
07-24-2011, 05:24 PM
Kobe Haters! Thats all it is.... but at the end of the day my boy has 5 rings and 7 trips to the finals and he's not even done!!! He has been the greatest player of the last decade and it's a shame he only has one MVP. Yet guys like nash have 2..... But you can only blame Kobe for the haters... one he's really freakin good so people envy him and two his personality makes him not very likeable among a bunch of people who obviously dont know him.... he seems like a jerk... but hey hes the damn greatest basketball playing jerk!!!

flea
07-24-2011, 05:26 PM
Shaq did have years where he was the best
duncan did have years when he was the best
lebron has years and will have more as the best

Im not disagreeing with you, but the fact that kobes name is not up there is nothing but utter hate

No it isn't, he was probably the second best in 4 or 5 of those years. Just because he wasn't the best among distinguished company doesn't mean I think he sucked. Tell me what year(s) you'd put him as best.

Hawkeye15
07-24-2011, 05:26 PM
nice contribution....

Why is it than when people don't bow to Kobe, and instead judge him subjectively, some Laker fans call them, "haters"?

That is something we should have stopped doing in 8th grade guys

edit: not at you flea, the post above

naps
07-24-2011, 05:27 PM
Shaq did have years where he was the best
duncan did have years when he was the best
lebron has years and will have more as the best

Im not disagreeing with you, but the fact that kobes name is not up there is nothing but utter hate

Why don't you just break down the years to prove him wrong. Kobe has been a top 5 player for a long time but honestly I can't find a year where he was clearly the best. Not even in 2005-06.

coryd238
07-24-2011, 05:28 PM
5, maybe 6. PSD is just going with the blind hate. I seriously wonder why I post here anymore.

From 2003/2004 on everytime Kobe had the ball against the Nugs I knew he was going to **** us over. He was scary as ****, and no other player did that during those years.

JordansBulls
07-24-2011, 05:29 PM
All well and good, but just realize that you're picking the best player in the league based primarily on their playoff run. A guy who didn't finish top 5 in MVP voting and out of 121 votes, exactly zero placed Dirk #1. Doesn't help that he didn't crack the top 5 in PER, WS/48, or USG% for that matter.

I'm fine with your reasoning, but just realize that it's an uphill battle for you to make that argument.

That's fine, but we did a vote similar on the other site you know where everyone puts in imput and not just votes and here was the results for the 2010-2011 season.


We voted and on another forum these were the results.



2010-11 Results (Back to Top)

Player 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts POY Shares MVP DPOY All-NBA All-DEF
1. Dirk Nowitzki 19 3 1 0 0 216 0.939 6 - 2nd ---
2. LeBron James 3 10 6 3 1 140 0.609 3 9 1st 1st
3. Dwight Howard 0 7 10 5 1 115 0.500 2 1 1st 1st
4. Dwyane Wade 1 3 4 11 3 87 0.378 7 16 2nd ---
5. Derrick Rose 0 0 1 3 11 25 0.109 1 - 1st ---
6. Kevin Durant 0 0 1 0 5 10 0.043 5 - 1st ---
7. Chris Paul 0 0 0 1 2 5 0.022 13 12 3rd 2nd



So I guess it is an uphill battle for Dirk when you have posters on the other site who actually put thought into posts clearly stating Dirk was the best last year.

And then this.

Dirk Nowitzki and Mavs become first team in NBA history

To defeat three teams that each had a

ALL-NBA 1st team player and ALL-NBA 2nd team player:

Kobe and Gasol
Durant and Westbrook
LeBron and Wade

tredigs
07-24-2011, 05:30 PM
Kobe Haters! Thats all it is.... but at the end of the day my boy has 5 rings and 7 trips to the finals and he's not even done!!! He has been the greatest player of the last decade and it's a shame he only has one MVP. Yet guys like nash have 2..... But you can only blame Kobe for the haters... one he's really freakin good so people envy him and two his personality makes him not very likeable among a bunch of people who obviously dont know him.... he seems like a jerk... but hey hes the damn greatest basketball playing jerk!!!

Are any one of you homers going to stop having these knee-jerk visceral/crying reactions that some people (most) actually feel other players were better in particular years?

From what I've read of this thread, I've seen ONE Laker fan who didn't come in here crying - Bruno - and the rest are like this guy. Meanwhile, virtually everyone else is taking the time to look at the question and are coming to various conclusions. That's sad, Laker fans.

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 05:30 PM
It's pretty simple and I had to sign up but this **** is just straight out disrespectful, like no lie, who do NBA teams fear the most Kobe, hell there is always a poll that asks current NBA players before theseason starts who's the best player in the league and Kobe always gets their vote I think he's been voted the best player by players and coaches for like the last 6-7 years!!! It's pretty sad how some of you can't acknowledge greatness, I mean marv Albert, Kenny smith, Reggie miller, etc. Have all calle him the best karl,Phil,popovich,dunleavy etc. Have all called him the best heck even now most players and coaches around the league consider Kobe the best. It's sad how he has 1 bad injury riddled year and now psd thinks hes not the best lol most don't even have him in the top
5 hahaha, Kobe was the best for about 6+ years an it was said an proven time and time again. Thanks for participating haters but the true unbiased non hating fans win

flea
07-24-2011, 05:31 PM
It's pretty simple and I had to sign up but this **** is just straight out disrespectful, like no lie, who do NBA teams fear the most Kobe, hell there is always a poll that asks current NBA players before theseason starts who's the best player in the league and Kobe always gets their vote I think he's been voted the best player by players and coaches for like the last 6-7 years!!! It's pretty sad how some of you can't acknowledge greatness, I mean marv Albert, Kenny smith, Reggie miller, etc. Have all calle him the best karl,Phil,popovich,dunleavy etc. Have all called him the best heck even now most players and coaches around the league consider Kobe the best. It's sad how he has 1 bad injury riddled year and now psd thinks hes not the best lol most don't even have him in the top
5 hahaha, Kobe was the best for about 6+ years an it was said an proven time and time again. Thanks for participating haters but the true unbiased non hating fans win

You sound mad bro.

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 05:33 PM
5, maybe 6. PSD is just going with the blind hate. I seriously wonder why I post here anymore.

From 2003/2004 on everytime Kobe had the ball against the Nugs I knew he was going to **** us over. He was scary as ****, and no other player did that during those years.

I applaud you for being a true unbiased NBA fan and not a hater, I'm glad you tell it like you see it :clap:

tredigs
07-24-2011, 05:33 PM
That's fine, but we did a vote similar on the other site you know where everyone puts in imput and not just votes and here was the results for the 2010-2011 season.


We voted and on another forum these were the results.



2010-11 Results (Back to Top)

Player 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts POY Shares MVP DPOY All-NBA All-DEF
1. Dirk Nowitzki 19 3 1 0 0 216 0.939 6 - 2nd ---
2. LeBron James 3 10 6 3 1 140 0.609 3 9 1st 1st
3. Dwight Howard 0 7 10 5 1 115 0.500 2 1 1st 1st
4. Dwyane Wade 1 3 4 11 3 87 0.378 7 16 2nd ---
5. Derrick Rose 0 0 1 3 11 25 0.109 1 - 1st ---
6. Kevin Durant 0 0 1 0 5 10 0.043 5 - 1st ---
7. Chris Paul 0 0 0 1 2 5 0.022 13 12 3rd 2nd



So I guess it is an uphill battle for Dirk when you have posters on the other site who actually put thought into posts clearly stating Dirk was the best last year.

And then this.

Was the vote done right after the 2011 playoffs? It must have been. Zero percent chance the people on that forum come to that conclusion after the regular season is over, and if people are removed from the moment and re-vote the same question in 5 years, I have a feeling it would look differently.

If you weren't top 5 for the entire regular season, it's tough to argue that they were unquestionably the best player in the league after it's all said and done.

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 05:35 PM
You sound mad bro.

Atleast I'm not a hater,


Don't hate the player



Hate the game

JordansBulls
07-24-2011, 05:36 PM
Was the vote done right after the 2011 playoffs? It must have been. Zero percent chance the people on that forum come to that conclusion after the regular season is over, and if people are removed from the moment and re-vote the same question in 5 years, I have a feeling it would look differently.

If you weren't top 5 for the entire regular season, it's tough to argue that they were unquestionably the best player in the league after it's all said and done.

You should go over and consider the debate, it was done after the season was done which means both season and playoffs are considered. Not to mention a big stock was that the Mavs were 2-7 without Dirk in the lineup. In 5 years nothing would have changed. It would show that one team had 2 of the top 4 players in the league that lost with HCA in the finals despite being heavy favorites. That a 2x defending champions were clearly upset with no analyst picked Dallas to beat them. Bulls with the best record were upset. The Thunder went 7 games to an 8th seed. So yeah, it will be looked upon like Duncan's 2003 season where he was the best player.

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 05:37 PM
Kobe Haters! Thats all it is.... but at the end of the day my boy has 5 rings and 7 trips to the finals and he's not even done!!! He has been the greatest player of the last decade and it's a shame he only has one MVP. Yet guys like nash have 2..... But you can only blame Kobe for the haters... one he's really freakin good so people envy him and two his personality makes him not very likeable among a bunch of people who obviously dont know him.... he seems like a jerk... but hey hes the damn greatest basketball playing jerk!!!

:clap:

naps
07-24-2011, 05:38 PM
It's pretty simple and I had to sign up but this **** is just straight out disrespectful, like no lie, who do NBA teams fear the most Kobe, hell there is always a poll that asks current NBA players before theseason starts who's the best player in the league and Kobe always gets their vote I think he's been voted the best player by players and coaches for like the last 6-7 years!!! It's pretty sad how some of you can't acknowledge greatness, I mean marv Albert, Kenny smith, Reggie miller, etc. Have all calle him the best karl,Phil,popovich,dunleavy etc. Have all called him the best heck even now most players and coaches around the league consider Kobe the best. It's sad how he has 1 bad injury riddled year and now psd thinks hes not the best lol most don't even have him in the top
5 hahaha, Kobe was the best for about 6+ years an it was said an proven time and time again. Thanks for participating haters but the true unbiased non hating fans win

I can't believe this is your first post. You seem to have this account just created and most likely you are a dupe.

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 05:42 PM
I can't believe this is your first post. You seem to have this account just created and most likely you are a dupe.

You really think so? Prove it

naps
07-24-2011, 05:43 PM
You really think so? Prove it

A MOD will take a look for sure.

claffyT
07-24-2011, 05:46 PM
hmm if playoffs are included then i think kobe was the best in 2009 because they won the title and he won finals mvp... and i know he won finals mvp again in 2010 but it shoulda went to pau, so i dont count kobe as being the best that playoffs (or finals)h

Sadds The Gr8
07-24-2011, 05:47 PM
5, maybe 6. PSD is just going with the blind hate. I seriously wonder why I post here anymore.

From 2003/2004 on everytime Kobe had the ball against the Nugs I knew he was going to **** us over. He was scary as ****, and no other player did that during those years.

ok then name the damn seasons and prove how he was the best and stop just pulling random #s outta ur *** and throwing the word "hate" around.

ivylleague1'
07-24-2011, 05:55 PM
2000- Shaq
2001- Shaq
2002- Duncan
2003- Duncan
2004- KG
2005- Duncan
2006- Lebron
2007- Duncan
2008- Paul
2009- LeBron
2010- LeBron
2011- Dwight



You must hate Iverson and Kobe .

2001: Iverson #1 in scoring in the planet. #1 in steals in the planet.
Certainly better than anyone. Shaq proclaimed Iverson to be top 4 ever in the NBA history that year.

2006: Kobe led the planet in scoring.

smith&wesson
07-24-2011, 05:57 PM
No it isn't, he was probably the second best in 4 or 5 of those years. Just because he wasn't the best among distinguished company doesn't mean I think he sucked. Tell me what year(s) you'd put him as best.

it doesnt matter what i think. psd loves to hate kobe. its the truth although hawkeye is right it is an 8th grader mentality it doesnt change the fact that here on psd kobe never gets his respect where its due.

same goes for lebron. he gets torched on psd basically too. some players will be hated and others wont. and if you happen to be a fan of these players you better keep it to yourself.

if we made the same thread about shaq or duncan ppl would atleast accept that those two had theyre time in the league when they were the best. but you make one about kobe and over 3/4 of the thread is ppl trying to prove that kobe was never as great as his legacy suggests. players would admit themselves that kobe was the best but the posters on psd ofcourse know better. so why bother trying to prove a point... its the same crap in the nba forum all the time.

i give a player his respect where its due no matter what team they play for.

Bos_Sports4Life
07-24-2011, 05:58 PM
Kobe's been a conisistant force obviously, But, you could arguo 0 seasons where hes been the clear cut best

* Hes NEVER been in the top 3 in total win shares

* Hes been in the top 5 in win shares/per 48 ONE TIME


Now im not a big fan of advanced stats, but there's never been a season where hes been clear cut #1....however he was top 3-5 for several yrs..

naps
07-24-2011, 06:00 PM
You must hate Iverson and Kobe .

2001: Iverson #1 in scoring in the planet. #1 in steals in the planet.
Certainly better than anyone. Shaq proclaimed Iverson to be top 4 ever in the NBA history that year.

2006: Kobe led the planet in scoring.

So Durant has been the best player since he's been leading the scoring for 2 years in a row?

Bos_Sports4Life
07-24-2011, 06:00 PM
it doesnt matter what i think. psd loves to hate kobe. its the truth although hawkeye is right it is an 8th grader mentality it doesnt change the fact that here on psd kobe never gets his respect where its due.

same goes for lebron. he gets torched on psd basically too. some players will be hated and others wont. and if you happen to be a fan of these players you better keep it to yourself.

if we made the same thread about shaq or duncan ppl would atleast accept that those two had theyre time in the league when they were the best. but you make one about kobe and over 3/4 of the thread is ppl trying to prove that kobe was never as great as his legacy suggests. players would admit themselves that kobe was the best but the posters on psd ofcourse know better. so why bother trying to prove a point... its the same crap in the nba forum all the time.

i give a player his respect where its due no matter what team they play for.


Well even the people that disslike kobe (im 1 of them, i however atleast have some respect for the guy, unlike lebron) admit hes top 10-15, some say top 5 but i think thats a bit foolish at this time

its 100% foolish too have him ranked any lower than about #13 all time, and most people realize that

naps
07-24-2011, 06:02 PM
Kobe's been a conisistant force obviously, But, you could arguo 0 seasons where hes been the clear cut best

* Hes NEVER been in the top 3 in total win shares

* Hes been in the top 5 in win shares/per 48 ONE TIME


Now im not a big fan of advanced stats, but there's never been a season where hes been clear cut #1....however he was top 3-5 for several yrs..

Pretty much summarizes the rational and objective part of this thread.

smith&wesson
07-24-2011, 06:05 PM
Well even the people that disslike kobe (im 1 of them, i however atleast have some respect for the guy, unlike lebron) admit hes top 10-15, some say top 5 but i think thats a bit foolish at this time

its 100% foolish too have him ranked any lower than about #13 all time, and most people realize that

:clap: good man.

ill join you.

im not a big duncan fan. think he was a bore to watch. never liked cheering for him at all. BUT i can admit that he was def the best pf of all time. thats respect where its due. i dont like him but i cant deny how good he was.

WadeKobe
07-24-2011, 06:06 PM
Lebron was not better than Kobe in 2008. And 2003 is wrong, Duncan was the best. He led his team to the best record, won mvp and won finals mvp.

Can you please, please, please give any rational argument for this!?!?

LeBron was better in Rebounds, Assists, Points, FG%, PER, NetRtg, WS, WS48... and I haven't even looked at 82games yet...

J-Relo
07-24-2011, 06:06 PM
kinda funny to read how many tears WAS Kobe he best??? should be how many years will Kobe be the best.

Name another player since 2004(Shaqs departure from LA):

with more Finals appeances Kobe 3 (2008-10)
more titles Titles 2(08-09,09,10)

and Kobe still has the best overall game in the league(offense,defense)

04-present(people act like Kobe pushin a walker)

Kinda sad many wont be able to apprecciate greatness until its gone or until Lebron chokes again!!:D:D:D

is this a joke or smth?

sweep.

Cano4prez
07-24-2011, 06:07 PM
Loling at Kobe stans

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 06:07 PM
Well even the people that disslike kobe (im 1 of them, i however atleast have some respect for the guy, unlike lebron) admit hes top 10-15, some say top 5 but i think thats a bit foolish at this time

its 100% foolish too have him ranked any lower than about #13 all time, and most people realize that

Not having him in the top 10 is disrespectful not 10 guys havewver accomplished what Kobe has, idk where Kobe will be ranked at the end of the day but it's likely he'll finish in the top 5 only time will tell

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 06:10 PM
Loling at Kobe stans

Lol at kobe haters

See what I did there?

Btw thanks for contributing to this thread

knightstemplar
07-24-2011, 06:10 PM
Can you please, please, please give any rational argument for this!?!?

LeBron was better in Rebounds, Assists, Points, FG%, PER, NetRtg, WS, WS48... and I haven't even looked at 82games yet...

Lebron admited that Kobe was the best player in 2007, 2008, and better than him 2009

flea
07-24-2011, 06:12 PM
Who gives a **** what Lebron thinks? Joe Morgan probably thinks he was the best second baseman because of his grit.

knightstemplar
07-24-2011, 06:16 PM
people need to wake up in reality

heres Lebron James saying Kobes the best player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7p001BvjEA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSsi2NayD6o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv37ykpYk84

i can give more videos of former players, players today, and coaches saying kobe was better even in 2010
heres one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liKW_fyV-UQ

even Michael Jordan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBqL2ikTgGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pp10aHLdEc

even the president Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFGi0TpwlMk

flea
07-24-2011, 06:17 PM
people need to wake up in reality

heres Lebron James saying Kobes the best player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7p001BvjEA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSsi2NayD6o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv37ykpYk84

i can give more videos of former players, players today, and coaches saying kobe was better even in 2010
heres one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liKW_fyV-UQ

even Michael Jordan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBqL2ikTgGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pp10aHLdEc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

knightstemplar
07-24-2011, 06:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anoqbgOZrEg

part 1, a collection of players and analysts

WadeKobe
07-24-2011, 06:29 PM
I take a different approach to this question, though I can respect how others want to go at the question.

For me, it isn't a matter of each year there's a new "best player". Instead, each year you have your "best performer", and then a "best player."

So, the best player in the league might have a little bit of a down year, and have the 2nd or 3rd best season among players that year... but they're still the best player in the league. So, for instance, in 1996 and 1997, David Robinson and Karl Malone arguably played better throughout the season than MJ did... but MJ was still the best player in the game.

So, when Kobe entered the league, MJ was the best...

1997-1998: Michael Jordan
1999-2002: Shaquille O'Neal
2003: Tim Duncan (Kevin Garnett close 2nd)
2004-2005: Tim Duncan/Kevin Garnett
2006-2007: Kobe Bryant
2008-2011: LeBron James

I give Kobe 2 seasons as the best player in the game.

The torch has been passed this way, and Kobe has sort of been unlucky. Kobe is, in my book, #10 all time, right in the conversation with Russel, Garnett, and Moses.

But MJ was the best in 97-98, with Shaq roaring close behind in 2nd. When MJ retired, it was Shaq, with Duncan clearly number 2. Because of the contrast in their work ethics, Duncan shortly passed him and in that time Kevin Garnett had a serious spike in production, putting him at a close second and arguably tied with him for a couple of years.

Then, age hit Duncan hard, and Kobe had no one else to compete with, since Wade and James were still very young. Kobe was hands down top 4 in the game from 2001-2005, but never the best until 2006, and he was definitely the best from 2006-2007. Those who say Dirk are out of their minds. Kobe was the best and I don't know how anyone can argue it.

In 2008 LeBron took the mantle and began living up to his name, and in 2009 he and Wade put up two of the greatest seasons we've ever seen in the history of the NBA. Chris Paul has been very close behind them, certainly in the top 5 discussion, and arguably had the best season of anyone in 2008, but LeBron was the "best player in the league."

That's my take.

smith&wesson
07-24-2011, 06:39 PM
people need to wake up in reality

heres Lebron James saying Kobes the best player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7p001BvjEA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSsi2NayD6o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv37ykpYk84

i can give more videos of former players, players today, and coaches saying kobe was better even in 2010
heres one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liKW_fyV-UQ

even Michael Jordan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBqL2ikTgGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pp10aHLdEc

even the president Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFGi0TpwlMk


who cares what those guys think. psd can look up stats and prove any professional basketball player wrong. it could be mj himself, or lebron but nooooooo, psd knows better.

knightstemplar
07-24-2011, 06:44 PM
I take a different approach to this question, though I can respect how others want to go at the question.

For me, it isn't a matter of each year there's a new "best player". Instead, each year you have your "best performer", and then a "best player."

So, the best player in the league might have a little bit of a down year, and have the 2nd or 3rd best season among players that year... but they're still the best player in the league. So, for instance, in 1996 and 1997, David Robinson and Karl Malone arguably played better throughout the season than MJ did... but MJ was still the best player in the game.

So, when Kobe entered the league, MJ was the best...

1997-1998: Michael Jordan
1999-2002: Shaquille O'Neal
2003: Tim Duncan (Kevin Garnett close 2nd)
2004-2005: Tim Duncan/Kevin Garnett
2006-2007: Kobe Bryant
2008-2011: LeBron James

I give Kobe 2 seasons as the best player in the game.

The torch has been passed this way, and Kobe has sort of been unlucky. Kobe is, in my book, #10 all time, right in the conversation with Russel, Garnett, and Moses.

But MJ was the best in 97-98, with Shaq roaring close behind in 2nd. When MJ retired, it was Shaq, with Duncan clearly number 2. Because of the contrast in their work ethics, Duncan shortly passed him and in that time Kevin Garnett had a serious spike in production, putting him at a close second and arguably tied with him for a couple of years.

Then, age hit Duncan hard, and Kobe had no one else to compete with, since Wade and James were still very young. Kobe was hands down top 4 in the game from 2001-2005, but never the best until 2006, and he was definitely the best from 2006-2007. Those who say Dirk are out of their minds. Kobe was the best and I don't know how anyone can argue it.

In 2008 LeBron took the mantle and began living up to his name, and in 2009 he and Wade put up two of the greatest seasons we've ever seen in the history of the NBA. Chris Paul has been very close behind them, certainly in the top 5 discussion, and arguably had the best season of anyone in 2008, but LeBron was the "best player in the league."

That's my take.

Lebron said Kobe was the best player in the league in 2008 and 2009, so hows that possible
im pretty sure Lebron's opinion is > yours

WadeKobe
07-24-2011, 06:44 PM
people need to wake up in reality

heres Lebron James saying Kobes the best player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7p001BvjEA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSsi2NayD6o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv37ykpYk84

i can give more videos of former players, players today, and coaches saying kobe was better even in 2010
heres one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liKW_fyV-UQ

even Michael Jordan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBqL2ikTgGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pp10aHLdEc

even the president Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFGi0TpwlMk

We all know how well he has done as a GM in evaluating talent!

knightstemplar
07-24-2011, 06:46 PM
We all know how well he has done as a GM in evaluating talent!

theres a difference evaluating talent form a NBA playing in the NBA already to a high school kid who never even played in college, let alone NBA yet

Nick O
07-24-2011, 06:47 PM
its tough to say.... 3 or 4 ? and at certain times i guess you got to ask was he better than players like Lebron or Nash or dirk when they won their MVP's? maybe , Maybe not but whether his numbers werent as good id still rather him on my team... he has the rings the talent and hes unbelievably clutch..... if Michael Jordan is a 10/10 kobe is a 9

C-Style
07-24-2011, 06:47 PM
We all know how well he has done as a GM in evaluating talent!

Even Wade in 09 said Kobe was the best player in the league

WadeKobe
07-24-2011, 06:53 PM
Lebron said Kobe was the best player in the league in 2008 and 2009, so hows that possible
im pretty sure Lebron's opinion is > yours

I'm pretty sure it was similar to my current bartending situation...

I've been bartending at a high-volume night club in downtown San Diego for about 6 months. I essentially work in an absolutely elite environment, with elite bartenders, in the 6th busiest business district in the country. I am out-shined on a nightly basis by people who've been doing it for 2-7 years in this spot.

Every Friday and Saturday night I am set up in the well next to Kuk, our Bar manager and lead bartender, who has been bartending at this spot for 7 years. In the 5 years that I have worked in the industry as a server and bartender, he is without comparison the greatest bartender I've ever seen and worked alongside. It's not even close. His speed is unimaginable. His accuracy is flawless. What's more, he makes it look effortless, and goofs around as though it's a slow night while putting up $5k in sales all by himself.

However, let's say in 4 years I'm still here, and at that point you could measure our speed and our accuracy, along with our ability to sell drinks. Let's say that it was clear that I was better to anyone who watched and analyzed.

I promise you I'd still tell you Kuk was the best person behind our bar. Guarantee it.

Would that make me right? No. It would make me a human with immense amounts of respect for another individual who is at the top of his craft. Just as Kobe has always been, and just as LeBron views Kobe.

flea
07-24-2011, 06:53 PM
Don't you think it's odd that, even we took off-handed comments as evidence, the only players saying he's the best are wings who guard or have guarded him? Let Wade or Jordan or Lebron try to guard Shaq or Duncan in their primes and then tell us who's the best. Let them coach a team to break down a Duncan defended paint.

Cano4prez
07-24-2011, 06:55 PM
Lebron said Kobe was the best player in the league in 2008 and 2009, so hows that possible
im pretty sure Lebron's opinion is > yours

And if he says he's the best which he clearly is/was from 08+ he'd be called an arrogant douche. Stats show it most non biased fans eyes know LeBron has been better than Kobe from 2008

C-Style
07-24-2011, 06:57 PM
Really? Then read my post above on the same page. Prove me wrong.
- On December 12, 2005 when Kobe Bryant went to the bench at the end of the third quarter, he had just netted a Lakers record 30 points in that quarter. But even better, he had 62 points, his career high by then and one more than the hole Dallas team. It was Kobe 62, Mavericks 61, the only time a player has done this through three quarters since the advent of the 24-second shot clock. With the Lakers up by 34 points, Bryant didn't play in the 4th quarter.

- On January 22, 2006 Bryant made history scoring 81 points in a 122-104 victory against the Toronto Raptors. It was the second best point total in NBA history, trailing only Wilt Chamberlain's legendary 100-point game in 1962. It broke the previous Lakers record of 71 set by Elgin Baylor.


- In January, Bryant became the first player since 1964 to score 45 points or more in four consecutive games. Only Chamberlain and Elgin Baylor did that before.

- In January, Bryant averaged 43.4 per game, the 8th highest single month scoring average in NBA history and the highest for any player other than Chamberlain.

- In 2005-06 Kobe Bryant set Lakers single-season franchise records for the most 40-point games (27) and most points scored (2,832), among others.

- Kobe Bryant had the highest scoring average (35.4) since Michael Jordan's 37.1 in 1986-87.


Kobe's 2005-06 season was the greatest individual season I've ever seen since MJ retired.Think about this. He took a team of Odom/Smush/Kwame Brown/Smush Parker/Mihm and had them 7th in ORTG in the league in the Western Conference. 35/5/5/2/56% TS and he did a amazing job of not turning the ball over--9% TO rate.

27 40+ point games
8 50+ point games
81 points in one game
62 points in three quarters
4 straight 45+ point games
Averaged 40+ PPG for the entire month of January and April
Scored more points in one season than anybody in history not named Wilt or Jordan.
All-NBA 1st Team
All-NBA 1st Team Defense

Nick O
07-24-2011, 06:57 PM
And if he says he's the best which he clearly is/was from 08+ he'd be called an arrogant douche. Stats show it most non biased fans eyes know LeBron has been better than Kobe from 2008

pretty much that.... its a standard response in all sports if your a top player and asked who the best player in your sport is you say another top player.... because even if you are the best in the world if you say yourself your made out to look like a prick.... i think a good example is Joe Dimaggio..... he said he was the best all time and he very well may have been... people made him out to be arrogant.... you cant just say yourself ;P

Bos_Sports4Life
07-24-2011, 07:02 PM
Not having him in the top 10 is disrespectful not 10 guys havewver accomplished what Kobe has, idk where Kobe will be ranked at the end of the day but it's likely he'll finish in the top 5 only time will tell


Hes close..like i said anywhere from 8-13 is basically a crapshoot


mj,kareem,russell,wilt,hakeem,bird,magic, shaq, duncan...i have those 9 ahead of him..

Bos_Sports4Life
07-24-2011, 07:08 PM
:clap: good man.

ill join you.

im not a big duncan fan. think he was a bore to watch. never liked cheering for him at all. BUT i can admit that he was def the best pf of all time. thats respect where its due. i dont like him but i cant deny how good he was.



Yea...I just cant stand when people rank him top of all time and COMPLETELY IGNORE big men. Hakeem,Duncan, Russell, Kareem, Shaq are all big men i currently have infront of Kobe. Wilt's an interesting case also, but he was just mentally weak for a lot of his career...


Kobe is prob my 10th currently, I have those 6 big men along with Bird, Magic, MJ that top kobe, which imo is a fair ranking...

Mosses/West/Oscar are all up there also..

Nick O
07-24-2011, 07:11 PM
Hes close..like i said anywhere from 8-13 is basically a crapshoot


mj,kareem,russell,wilt,hakeem,bird,magic, shaq, duncan...i have those 9 ahead of him..

Duncan? ahead of Kobe? Duncan has played mostly all of his career surrounded by veterans and strong guards... you take away Parker and manu would he have as many titles? people saud that about kobe and shaq... they took away Shaq and he still won.... kobe too has always been surrounded by good players But duncan always had great players and coaches surrounding him with numbers paling in compairison to Kobe

Tony_Starks
07-24-2011, 07:18 PM
The mere fact that 8 people said zero times pretty much sums up all you need to know about why Laker fans get so defensive about Kobe "haters."
but anyway.....


One could reasonably argue that during at least one of the Shaq/Kobe years Kobe was the best player due to him carrying the load while SHaq took his normal "time off" through the season, completely doing his thing against the Western elite at the time and defending their best perimeter players, and coming through in the clutch close games when Shaq couldn't do it for foul trouble or fear of hack-a-Shaq. (including in the finals).

One could also reasonably argue that the fact that pretty much the entire team (players and coaches) of Team USA acknowledged he was the best player, went to him in the clutch (him, NOT Lebron) and also used him as the defensive stopper the whole tourney is a pretty big damn deal. I seriously doubt they were just being polite.....

Along those lines when Doc Rivers was going up against Kobe in the finals, after having already played (and once again defeated) Lebron James, said he was still the best in the game..... I would say thats a major assessment coming from a guy that had to prepare for and play both players. Especially with there being no love loss between those two teams.

I really don't see how you can objectively throw any of that out of the window, especially when there's a common theme from his peers.


edit- to be completely fair Doc was specifically asked after playing other mvp candidates can anyone else do what Kobe can do and he said no, that there were other guys more athletic but that Kobe was the best shot maker in the game.....

Jewelz0376
07-24-2011, 07:27 PM
The mere fact that 8 people said zero times pretty much sums up all you need to know about why Laker fans get so defensive about Kobe "haters."
but anyway.....


One could reasonably argue that during at least one of the Shaq/Kobe years Kobe was the best player due to him carrying the load while SHaq took his normal "time off" through the season, completely doing his thing against the Western elite at the time and defending their best perimeter players, and coming through in the clutch close games when Shaq couldn't do it for foul trouble or fear of hack-a-Shaq. (including in the finals).

One could also reasonably argue that the fact that pretty much the entire team (players and coaches) of Team USA acknowledged he was the best player, went to him in the clutch (him, NOT Lebron) and also used him as the defensive stopper the whole tourney is a pretty big damn deal. I seriously doubt they were just being polite.....

Along those lines when Doc Rivers was going up against Kobe in the finals, after having already played (and once again defeated) Lebron James, said he was still the best in the game..... I would say thats a major assessment coming from a guy that had to prepare for and play both players. Especially with there being no love loss between those two teams.

I really don't see how you can objectively throw any of that out of the window, especially when there's a common theme from his peers.

I said in an earlier post that I felt like Kobe was the best player in the league in the 02-03 season...Which was the year after their 3rd title when Shaq was coasting and in the worst shape of his career... Kobe averaged 30/7/6 on 45% shooting that season, while being a 1st team all defender...and that was the young Kobe who was def one of the best perimeter defenders in the league...

knightstemplar
07-24-2011, 07:28 PM
pretty much that.... its a standard response in all sports if your a top player and asked who the best player in your sport is you say another top player.... because even if you are the best in the world if you say yourself your made out to look like a prick.... i think a good example is Joe Dimaggio..... he said he was the best all time and he very well may have been... people made him out to be arrogant.... you cant just say yourself ;P

ok, what about wade, amare stoudamire, gilbert arenas, chris kamen, alvin gentry, michael jordan, dennis rodman, ect.. all saying kobe was the best

tredigs
07-24-2011, 07:29 PM
Duncan? ahead of Kobe? Duncan has played mostly all of his career surrounded by veterans and strong guards... you take away Parker and manu would he have as many titles? people saud that about kobe and shaq... they took away Shaq and he still won.... kobe too has always been surrounded by good players But duncan always had great players and coaches surrounding him with numbers paling in compairison to Kobe

Duncan's numbers pale in comparison to Kobe? Come again? Are you the kind of guy who simply looks at PPG?

Not only do the numbers favor Duncan, but his defense was both better than Kobe's and at a position where it impacts the game far more significantly than a shooting guard.

No doubt that Duncan came into the league in a GREAT situation, but that takes nothing away from his personal dominance.

knightstemplar
07-24-2011, 07:29 PM
And if he says he's the best which he clearly is/was from 08+ he'd be called an arrogant douche. Stats show it most non biased fans eyes know LeBron has been better than Kobe from 2008

lol cool he has stats

knightstemplar
07-24-2011, 07:33 PM
Duncan's numbers pale in comparison to Kobe? Come again? Are you the kind of guy who simply looks at PPG?

Not only do his numbers favor Duncan, but his defense was both better than Kobe's and at a position where it impacts the game far more importantly than a shooting guard.

No doubt that Duncan came into the league in a GREAT situation, but that takes nothing away from his personal dominance.

how can u say 21/11/3 is better than 25/5/5 career averages?

anyways, duncan's best statistical season - 26/13/4
kobes - 35/5/5 or 30/7/6 or 32/6/5

anyways stats dont mean that much too me

flea
07-24-2011, 07:36 PM
how can u say 21/11/3 is better than 25/5/5 career averages?

anyways, duncan's best statistical season - 26/13/4
kobes - 35/5/5 or 30/7/6 or 32/6/5

anyways stats dont mean that much too me

Obviously not. You just look for youtube clips of player commentary and PPG, regardless of efficiency, and merchandising in deciding who is the best.

SteBO
07-24-2011, 07:36 PM
lol cool he has stats
I'd like to know why you think Kobe is better than LeBron without using "rings" as your crutch. There are other factors in determining who the better player is "at this moment".

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-24-2011, 07:40 PM
I'd say two, three at the very most.

Nick O
07-24-2011, 07:43 PM
ok, what about wade, amare stoudamire, gilbert arenas, chris kamen, alvin gentry, michael jordan, dennis rodman, ect.. all saying kobe was the best


i was just pointing that out.... if you read my original one i said kobe was the best player in the league for a number of years..... but in lebrons case he pretty much had to say lebron..... with the excpetion of maybe one year id say Kobe > lebron

tredigs
07-24-2011, 07:47 PM
how can u say 21/11/3 is better than 25/5/5 career averages?

anyways, duncan's best statistical season - 26/13/4
kobes - 35/5/5 or 30/7/6 or 32/6/5

anyways stats dont mean that much too me

We have stats now that FAR better illustrate how dominant a player is. I use them. They favor Duncan.

I realize that Kobe fans - for the most part - aren't a fan these because they point out certain deficiencies in his game relative to other superstars (tho' his advanced stats are still great), but the bottom line is that I'll look at the player who's PER and WS/48 (to use two common advanced stats) along with superior defense from a vastly more important defensive position over the shooting guard with higher PPG.

Bos_Sports4Life
07-24-2011, 07:47 PM
pretty much that.... its a standard response in all sports if your a top player and asked who the best player in your sport is you say another top player.... because even if you are the best in the world if you say yourself your made out to look like a prick.... i think a good example is Joe Dimaggio..... he said he was the best all time and he very well may have been... people made him out to be arrogant.... you cant just say yourself ;P


how was joe. d the best of all time? Hes not even top 3 in franchise history...

Nick O
07-24-2011, 07:49 PM
Duncan's numbers pale in comparison to Kobe? Come again? Are you the kind of guy who simply looks at PPG?

Not only do the numbers favor Duncan, but his defense was both better than Kobe's and at a position where it impacts the game far more significantly than a shooting guard.

No doubt that Duncan came into the league in a GREAT situation, but that takes nothing away from his personal dominance.

Kobes numbers are amazing as well and hes had more of impact on his team... the spurs would still have been a Playoff team annually without Duncan because they have all the pieces at every posistion... he certainly did make them a championship team despite Duncan being the greatest fundamental player in the history of basketball Kobe is possibly the biggest impact player of all time... there was doubt on that subject with the whole shaq thing... but the lakers were still a top team even after oneal left..

flea
07-24-2011, 07:50 PM
The only Spurs who won rings with Duncan that weren't role players were Robinson and Ginobili - and Ginobili is not a star in this league.

Nick O
07-24-2011, 07:50 PM
how was joe. d the best of all time? Hes not even top 3 in franchise history...

he did say this decades ago... and true there are many players who were better but its hard to believe that a player who is unquestionably in the baseball elite is not allowed to sate his own greatness

tredigs
07-24-2011, 07:53 PM
Kobes numbers are amazing as well and hes had more of impact on his team... the spurs would still have been a Playoff team annually without Duncan because they have all the pieces at every posistion... he certainly did make them a championship team despite Duncan being the greatest fundamental player in the history of basketball Kobe is possibly the biggest impact player of all time... there was doubt on that subject with the whole shaq thing... but the lakers were still a top team even after oneal left..

Hahahaha, wow. Not even going to dignify that one with a lengthy response. I'll just say that I seriously question your age/bball history IQ.

Tony_Starks
07-24-2011, 07:55 PM
Im just wondering for all the people that said he has never been the best player in the league is it ok to officially brand them as haters?

Nick O
07-24-2011, 07:57 PM
Hahahaha, wow. Not even going to dignify that one with a lengthy response. I'll just say that I seriously question your age/bball history IQ.

alright after wilt.... after Jordan..... Impact... all those other players ahead of him on the greatest players list were surrounded by great talent.... after shaq left kobe was surrounded by good talent.... Russel, baylor, Johnson, Bird, kareem all had very good players with them

AmyWinehouse
07-24-2011, 07:58 PM
Get high!!

Bravo95
07-24-2011, 07:59 PM
:laugh2: Some of these posts, man.

No matter which side you're on, MVP trophies means nothing in this kind of debate. Some of them should be given back, honestly. I'll just say Bryant's been Top 3 for around a decade, and leave it at that.

Nick O
07-24-2011, 07:59 PM
Get high!!

My penis is like a rollercoaster. If you're pregnant, prone to motion sickness or shorter than 48", you can't ride.

AmyWinehouse
07-24-2011, 08:00 PM
My penis is like a rollercoaster. If you're pregnant, prone to motion sickness or shorter than 48", you can't ride.

Good to know.

Bos_Sports4Life
07-24-2011, 08:03 PM
he did say this decades ago... and true there are many players who were better but its hard to believe that a player who is unquestionably in the baseball elite is not allowed to sate his own greatness


But...Even Guys like Williams/Ruth CRUSHED him...it was actually a complete joke he was often compared with Ted, Ted just kills him in everything...not just overall slg/obp ect, but also in longeveity...there's absolutely no contest..

Nick O
07-24-2011, 08:05 PM
But...Even Guys like Williams/Ruth CRUSHED him...it was actually a complete joke he was often compared with Ted, Ted just kills him in everything...not just overall slg/obp ect, but also in longeveity...there's absolutely no contest..

true... its not worse than Henderson saying it though :P ....

tredigs
07-24-2011, 08:05 PM
:laugh2: Some of these posts, man.

No matter which side you're on, MVP trophies means nothing in this kind of debate. Some of them should be given back, honestly. I'll just say Bryant's been Top 3 for around a decade, and leave it at that.

Sometimes slips a little lower, but I'd generally agree with that - and that's a big reason why he's one of the best ever. Consistently great for a decade, not many players can say that (and along with his rings/the media he gets playing in LA, it's a big reason he was considered the best in the league by most players). This is just taking a look at when he was the best, and it's definitely fair to argue that it was no more than a season or two. I don't think people should take that as "hating".

tredigs
07-24-2011, 08:08 PM
alright after wilt.... after Jordan..... Impact... all those other players ahead of him on the greatest players list were surrounded by great talent.... after shaq left kobe was surrounded by good talent.... Russel, baylor, Johnson, Bird, kareem all had very good players with them

A prime Hakeem's impact >>> Kobe's, just to name another who is clearly ahead of him. And when Kobe had no All-Stars/elite casts around him, or was the 1b/#2 on his team, his team either got knocked out in the first round or failed to make the playoffs. And that's his max-prime.

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 08:08 PM
I can already tell who the Kobe fans are, who the kobe haters are and who the I respect Kobes game people are

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-24-2011, 08:11 PM
I can already tell who the Kobe fans are, who the kobe haters are and who the I respect Kobes game people are

How many seasons do you think he has been the best for? And please be realistic.

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 08:13 PM
A prime Hakeem's impact >>> Kobe's, just to name another who is clearly ahead of him. And when Kobe had no All-Stars/elite casts around him, or was the 1b/#2 on his team, his team either got knocked out in the first round or failed to make the playoffs. And that's his max-prime.

Lol anothe poor excuse to knock Kobe, he'll Lebron wouldnt have Done **** either with that crap of a team from 2005-2007 it would have been 1st round exits or no playoffs as well. As for the 1b.) crap etc. It's simple your just making excuses, it like me saying oh well Jordan didn't win until the bad boys got old, he also didn't win without pippen. It's the same thing I would be called a hater for doing that but I don't say those things because even though I don't really like Jordan I respect what he did as a player, and for the game of basketball

WadeKobe
07-24-2011, 08:15 PM
:laugh2: Some of these posts, man.

No matter which side you're on, MVP trophies means nothing in this kind of debate. Some of them should be given back, honestly. I'll just say Bryant's been Top 3 for around a decade, and leave it at that.

I'd say top 4, but in general I 100% agree with this sentiment. The guy is a phenomenal and rare talent.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-24-2011, 08:16 PM
Lol anothe poor excuse to knock Kobe, he'll Lebron wouldnt have Fontanne either with that crap of a team from 2005-2007 it would have been 1st round exits or no playoffs as well. As for the 1b.) crap etc. It's simple your just making excuses, it like me saying oh well Jordan didn't win until the bad boys got old, he also didn't win without pippen. It's the same thing I would be called a hater for doing that but I don't say those things because even though I don't really like Jordan I respect what he did as a player, and for the game of basketball

I hate LeBron but he made it to the Finals with one of the shittiest teams of all time. Tredigs has a great point.

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 08:16 PM
How many seasons do you think he has been the best for? And please be realistic.

2003 &
2005-2010
Last year he wasn't the best player but he certaintly still is a top 5 top 3 player, but him struggling in the playoffs (injured)suddenly made people think he's barely a top 10 player now

So 6-7 years and that's no lie, the majority of players agree with me as well

Tony_Starks
07-24-2011, 08:16 PM
I can already tell who the Kobe fans are, who the kobe haters are and who the I respect Kobes game people are


I feel like 0-2 puts you in haterland, 3-4 is neutral fan geniune respect for his work, 5 or better Laker fan who has seen every single game and can't nobody tell you he hasn't been absolutely killing the league for years on every level.....

Bos_Sports4Life
07-24-2011, 08:17 PM
Kobes numbers are amazing as well and hes had more of impact on his team... the spurs would still have been a Playoff team annually without Duncan because they have all the pieces at every posistion... he certainly did make them a championship team despite Duncan being the greatest fundamental player in the history of basketball Kobe is possibly the biggest impact player of all time... there was doubt on that subject with the whole shaq thing... but the lakers were still a top team even after oneal left..


Yes, once they added gasol...

Lets look at the years following shaqs departure from la, and before they added Gasol, an elite PF

2004-05, 34-48

2005-06, 45-37

06-07, 42-40

The Total Record for kobe without Shaq/Gasol is 121-125

WadeKobe
07-24-2011, 08:18 PM
Im just wondering for all the people that said he has never been the best player in the league is it ok to officially brand them as haters?

Yes. I generally think of myself as an objective guy... who knows. :rolleyes:

But in general, I know I'm a Kobe hater. Partly because I think I've always looked objectively and disliked how overrated he was (and that fueled hate), but also for other reasons.

However, if I... as a huge Kobe hater, can objectively say that he was easily the greatest player in all of the NBA for 2 years, how does anyone say 0?

But, then again, I already said I can respect a different approach. I think you could make a good argument that Kobe was never the "best performer", or never had the "best season" ever in his carrer. However, he was still the best in the game from 2006-2007. Much better than Dirk.

OaklandsFinest
07-24-2011, 08:19 PM
This is where Kobe fans lose all credibility. Kobe had 1 maybe 2 years where he was just killing it, but people forget Kevin Garnett was killing Kobe in almost every statistical category, and took him to the cleaners based on leadership, and on the court presence. While Kobe was complaining that he was playing with Kwame and Smush, T Mac was playing with Pat Garrity, Shawn Kemp, and Darrell Armstrong. KG was playing with Troy Hudson, and Olowakandi and Nesterovic. Iverson was killing, Shaq was better, VC in Toronto was a better player at that time. I would give Kobe MAYBE the 07-08 season, but I think he is probably the most surgical scorer in the league, but theres more to it than just that. He's a top defender when he wants to, but those moments are few and far between, and his shot selection maybe an all time worst. I just think he has been blessed with very good situations the best one being traded to the Lakers on draft day.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-24-2011, 08:21 PM
2003 &
2005-2010
Last year he wasn't the best player but he certaintly still is a top 5 top 3 player, but him struggling in the playoffs (injured)suddenly made people think he's barely a top 10 player now

So 6-7 years and that's no lie, the majority of players agree with me as well

Beyond 07 or 08 is a stretch. He also wasn't the best in 03.
Only time Kobe was the clear cut best was in the 05-06 season. 06-07 it was Dirk and possibly Kobe. 07-08, you can make a case for LeBron, Paul, and Kobe.
08-09 was LeBron. 09-10 was LeBron. And this past season it was LeBron or Dirk.

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 08:23 PM
I hate LeBron but he made it to the Finals with one of the shittiest teams of all time. Tredigs has a great point.

Let's see

Kobe>Lebron
Lamar>Hughes
Kwame<big Z
Mihm<gooden
Smash Parker<Eric snow
???<DMarshall
Then you had guys like damon jones pavolovic and varejao on their bench the lakers had cook Devon George and Jim Jackson(way past his prime)

Lol your seriously comparing lebrons team to kobes team? Lmfao Kobe wouldve taken that team to the finals a well, the east was weak that year while the west wa as dominant as ever, lol nice try though but lebrons team look like all-stars compared to the lakers that year and 1-2 years after

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 08:25 PM
I feel like 0-2 puts you in haterland, 3-4 is neutral fan geniune respect for his work, 5 or better Laker fan who has seen every single game and can't nobody tell you he hasn't been absolutely killing the league for years on every level.....

I feel the same way

smith&wesson
07-24-2011, 08:26 PM
A prime Hakeem's impact >>> Kobe's, just to name another who is clearly ahead of him. And when Kobe had no All-Stars/elite casts around him, or was the 1b/#2 on his team, his team either got knocked out in the first round or failed to make the playoffs. And that's his max-prime.


this 1b/#2 option your talking about is flawed as well. shaq needed kobe just as much as kobe needed shaq. how many rings did shaq win before teaming up with kobe ? as i recall shaq was on orlando with penny hardaway in his prime. penny hardaway was incredible at the time prior to his injuries. also shaq won one more ring with d wade. kobe won two more rings with gasol as his big man. gasol wasnt half the player shaq was in his prime.

i said good day sir!

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 08:27 PM
This is where Kobe fans lose all credibility. Kobe had 1 maybe 2 years where he was just killing it, but people forget Kevin Garnett was killing Kobe in almost every statistical category, and took him to the cleaners based on leadership, and on the court presence. While Kobe was complaining that he was playing with Kwame and Smush, T Mac was playing with Pat Garrity, Shawn Kemp, and Darrell Armstrong. KG was playing with Troy Hudson, and Olowakandi and Nesterovic. Iverson was killing, Shaq was better, VC in Toronto was a better player at that time. I would give Kobe MAYBE the 07-08 season, but I think he is probably the most surgical scorer in the league, but theres more to it than just that. He's a top defender when he wants to, but those moments are few and far between, and his shot selection maybe an all time worst. I just think he has been blessed with very good situations the best one being traded to the Lakers on draft day.


So I guess all NBA players, coaches, and Gm's are laker fans?

NBAfan4life
07-24-2011, 08:27 PM
1 or 2, you can make an argument for 3 or 4. No shame if in reality it is only once or twice really. He is my all time favorite player and has been a top 5 player for an entire decade.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-24-2011, 08:30 PM
Let's see

Kobe>Lebron
Lamar>Hughes
Kwame<big Z
Mihm<gooden
Smash Parker<Eric snow
???<DMarshall
Then you had guys like damon jones pavolovic and varejao on their bench the lakers had cook Devon George and Jim Jackson(way past his prime)

Lol your seriously comparing lebrons team to kobes team? Lmfao Kobe wouldve taken that team to the finals a well, the east was weak that year while the west wa as dominant as ever, lol nice try though but lebrons team look like all-stars compared to the lakers that year and 1-2 years after

Yeah but that Cavs team still sucked miserably though. LeBron carried that team against the Pistons in the ECF single handedly.

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 08:31 PM
Beyond 07 or 08 is a stretch. He also wasn't the best in 03.
Only time Kobe was the clear cut best was in the 05-06 season. 06-07 it was Dirk and possibly Kobe. 07-08, you can make a case for LeBron, Paul, and Kobe.
08-09 was LeBron. 09-10 was LeBron. And this past season it was LeBron or Dirk.

actually your very wrong Kobe still had a case 2 years ago hell he even made Jerry west and magic Johnson eat ****, they went from Lebron to one month later saying it was Kobe again. Last year I don't trip Lebron and Dwight were the best Kobe was a top 5 player last year though, I'm looking forward to Kobe and especially the lakers having a revengeful and impactful year next year.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-24-2011, 08:34 PM
1 or 2, you can make an argument for 3 or 4. No shame if in reality it is only once or twice really. He is my all time favorite player and has been a top 5 player for an entire decade.

Wow a Kobe fan who doesn't sound like an idiot:clap:.

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 08:35 PM
Yeah but that Cavs team still sucked miserably though. LeBron carried that team against the Pistons in the ECF single handedly.


Umm a team that wins 60+ games and goes to the finals is not that miserable I agree that team wasn't great but it was a good team compared to the **** Kobe had when he was in his absolute prime

Tony_Starks
07-24-2011, 08:37 PM
Let's see

Kobe>Lebron
Lamar>Hughes
Kwame<big Z
Mihm<gooden
Smash Parker<Eric snow
???<DMarshall
Then you had guys like damon jones pavolovic and varejao on their bench the lakers had cook Devon George and Jim Jackson(way past his prime)

Lol your seriously comparing lebrons team to kobes team? Lmfao Kobe wouldve taken that team to the finals a well, the east was weak that year while the west wa as dominant as ever, lol nice try though but lebrons team look like all-stars compared to the lakers that year and 1-2 years after


You'll never be able to convince the "Lebron did it all himself" people any different. They don't understand when you have a guy that dominates the ball and can create you surround him with spot up shooters and rebounders. Why? Because a person that needs the ball in their hand to create is not going to be as effective playing with Lebron (as evidenced by his and Wades struggles to both play well at the same time, when Wades game went up Lebron was deferring to him).That's what Cleveland did and for the most part it was pretty successful. Except that he's not a closer.

Then when he got to Miami outisde of the big 3 guess what they did? Surrounded him again with spot up shooters and rebounders. Which, as long as he lets Wade close, will eventually get him multiple rings.....

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-24-2011, 08:43 PM
Umm a team that wins 60+ games and goes to the finals is not that miserable I agree that team wasn't great but it was a good team compared to the **** Kobe had when he was in his absolute prime

That team only won fifty games that year. And not to mention the fact that LeBron had Mike Brown as his coach who is horrendous as a coach.

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 08:57 PM
That team only won fifty games that year. And not to mention the fact that LeBron had Mike Brown as his coach who is horrendous as a coach.

Not to be cocky but that horrendous coach will help the lakers rise to the top again and become NBA world champs.

LakersA's49ers
07-24-2011, 09:06 PM
hard to give a number. probably from when shaq left to about 2006-2007

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-24-2011, 09:18 PM
Not to be cocky but that horrendous coach will help the lakers rise to the top again and become NBA world champs.

But you'll most likely will have to deal with this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2P6gJAL70&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_680297
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JXE4Lf1_Yc&feature=related

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-24-2011, 09:19 PM
hard to give a number. probably from when shaq left to about 2006-2007

Ok that's a fair amount. It's better than what most other Laker fans are saying here.

naps
07-24-2011, 09:27 PM
- On December 12, 2005 when Kobe Bryant went to the bench at the end of the third quarter, he had just netted a Lakers record 30 points in that quarter. But even better, he had 62 points, his career high by then and one more than the hole Dallas team. It was Kobe 62, Mavericks 61, the only time a player has done this through three quarters since the advent of the 24-second shot clock. With the Lakers up by 34 points, Bryant didn't play in the 4th quarter.

- On January 22, 2006 Bryant made history scoring 81 points in a 122-104 victory against the Toronto Raptors. It was the second best point total in NBA history, trailing only Wilt Chamberlain's legendary 100-point game in 1962. It broke the previous Lakers record of 71 set by Elgin Baylor.


- In January, Bryant became the first player since 1964 to score 45 points or more in four consecutive games. Only Chamberlain and Elgin Baylor did that before.

- In January, Bryant averaged 43.4 per game, the 8th highest single month scoring average in NBA history and the highest for any player other than Chamberlain.

- In 2005-06 Kobe Bryant set Lakers single-season franchise records for the most 40-point games (27) and most points scored (2,832), among others.

- Kobe Bryant had the highest scoring average (35.4) since Michael Jordan's 37.1 in 1986-87.


Kobe's 2005-06 season was the greatest individual season I've ever seen since MJ retired.Think about this. He took a team of Odom/Smush/Kwame Brown/Smush Parker/Mihm and had them 7th in ORTG in the league in the Western Conference. 35/5/5/2/56% TS and he did a amazing job of not turning the ball over--9% TO rate.

27 40+ point games
8 50+ point games
81 points in one game
62 points in three quarters
4 straight 45+ point games
Averaged 40+ PPG for the entire month of January and April
Scored more points in one season than anybody in history not named Wilt or Jordan.
All-NBA 1st Team
All-NBA 1st Team Defense

I am sorry but none of these proved me wrong. Again, I ask you read my post carefully. Here it is: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18635952&postcount=91

Chronz
07-24-2011, 09:28 PM
Stats are not the only factor in being the best player in the league. If you KNOW BASKETBALL you know who the best player is. Its OBVIOUS. When you watched Jordan from 90 to 98 you knew he was the best. When you watched Bill Russell of the 60s Best. Kereem Abdul Jabbar of the 70s Best. When you watched Magic in the 80s you Knew he and Larry Bird were the best. Shaq from 99 to 2002 Best Kobe from 2003 to 2010 Best. You dont need stats USE YOUR EYES!!! that is if you know basketball.

LOL you couldn't tell MJ was the best in the game before that point? If its so obvious hows you miss that? Or maybe your argument isn't very convincing. Inevitably you have to consider the measurable.

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 09:29 PM
But you'll most likely will have to deal with this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2P6gJAL70&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_680297
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JXE4Lf1_Yc&feature=related

He reminds me of doc rivers:rolleyes:

MelkyNYY
07-24-2011, 09:34 PM
1

Chronz
07-24-2011, 09:35 PM
Ok that's a fair amount. It's better than what most other Laker fans are saying here.

How is that a fair argument, hes CLEARLY overating Kobe. When Shaq left he tried to play the Bron/Wade role of attacking primarily from the top of the key and doing the distributing/scoring/ball dominating thing. The results were he had what was easily his least productive season of his prime.


Meanwhile Shaq remained an MVP caliber player.

C-Style
07-24-2011, 09:49 PM
I am sorry but none of these proved me wrong. Again, I ask you read my post carefully. Here it is: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18635952&postcount=91

kobe had the better season. Lebron at the time didn't even play a lick of defense. neither did T-mac in 03

knightstemplar
07-24-2011, 10:12 PM
I'd like to know why you think Kobe is better than LeBron without using "rings" as your crutch. There are other factors in determining who the better player is "at this moment".

just watching the game, ive seen them both play, and kobes the better basketball player, more skill
lebrons the better athlete yes, but in basketball skill, kobes ahead
and plus, the majority of players, former players, coaches say that kobes the best

knightstemplar
07-24-2011, 10:13 PM
How is that a fair argument, hes CLEARLY overating Kobe. When Shaq left he tried to play the Bron/Wade role of attacking primarily from the top of the key and doing the distributing/scoring/ball dominating thing. The results were he had what was easily his least productive season of his prime.


Meanwhile Shaq remained an MVP caliber player.

are you talking about the 2004-05 season?
you fail to mention that he was injured that year, clear agenda

knightstemplar
07-24-2011, 10:17 PM
Yes, once they added gasol...

Lets look at the years following shaqs departure from la, and before they added Gasol, an elite PF

2004-05, 34-48

2005-06, 45-37

06-07, 42-40

The Total Record for kobe without Shaq/Gasol is 121-125

injured, and only played 66 games
so 45-37 and 42-40 while healthy with smush parker, kwame brown, chucky atkins, ect s pretty good
and how ironic that this s coming from that boston fan that overrates Bill Russell as the #1 player of alltime cause of the 11 rings, how many HOFers did he have lol
Kobe didnt have nobody in 05-07, a young lamar odom was his 2nd best player

naps
07-24-2011, 10:24 PM
kobe had the better season. Lebron at the time didn't even play a lick of defense. neither did T-mac in 03

That's just your opinion. FACTS (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18635952&postcount=91) don't lie.

Tony_Starks
07-24-2011, 10:25 PM
Yes. I generally think of myself as an objective guy... who knows. :rolleyes:

But in general, I know I'm a Kobe hater. Partly because I think I've always looked objectively and disliked how overrated he was (and that fueled hate), but also for other reasons.

However, if I... as a huge Kobe hater, can objectively say that he was easily the greatest player in all of the NBA for 2 years, how does anyone say 0?

But, then again, I already said I can respect a different approach. I think you could make a good argument that Kobe was never the "best performer", or never had the "best season" ever in his carrer. However, he was still the best in the game from 2006-2007. Much better than Dirk.


:clap A honest man! I can't be mad at that, at least you don't let your dislike for him blind you to the obvious. I'm the same way with KG, never really been a fan of him but I have to admit for at least 1 season he absolutely was the man.

I actually liked his two seasons pre-mvp better than when he actually won it. When he won mvp that year to me it was more of "hey we snubbed this guy enough already, plus his team has a better record than CP3 no way we can justify snubbing him again......" sort of deal.

Chronz
07-24-2011, 11:23 PM
are you talking about the 2004-05 season?
you fail to mention that he was injured that year, clear agenda

Incorrect, he sustained that poor output throughout the year. In fact it want until he returned to the triangle that his stats recovered. He was healthy during their slide, Shaq had more injurie concerns than kb, he just didn't need the same excuses

Typical kobephile response, a clear agenda? LMFAO, only in the mind of an irrational homer is a player suffering from whatever you want to blame reason to exonerate his poor play and consider him the best of the game. Newsflash, no matter the excuse he CLEARLY want the best in the game.

knightstemplar
07-24-2011, 11:28 PM
Incorrect, he sustained that poor output throughout the year. In fact it want until he returned to the triangle that his stats recovered. He was healthy during their slide, Shaq had more injurie concerns than kb, he just didn't need the same excuses

Typical kobephile response, a clear agenda? LMFAO, only in the mind of an irrational homer is a player suffering from whatever you want to blame reason to exonerate his poor play and consider him the best of the game. Newsflash, no matter the excuse he CLEARLY want the best in the game.

i never said he was the best player in 2004-05
and yes kobe was injured

Avenged
07-24-2011, 11:32 PM
I'd say about 2.

But what really has helped him is his longevity and his consistency. Other players have come and gone but Kobe has always remained. I'd actually take a consistent elite player for a few seasons, than a good player who was considered better than him but is now not even in the conversation.

Chronz
07-24-2011, 11:32 PM
I actually liked his two seasons pre-mvp better than when he actually won it. When he won mvp that year to me it was more of "hey we snubbed this guy enough already, plus his team has a better record than CP3 no way we can justify snubbing him again......" sort of deal.

By using CP3 are you insinuating that Kobe wasnt the most worthy? Why would the voters hesitate for KG when it was his best year stats/wins wise?

Chronz
07-24-2011, 11:34 PM
i never said he was the best player in 2004-05
and yes kobe was injured

Your not very good at this debating game are you. I don't care what you said, I was responding to a certain claim. If you cannot debunk my rebuttal don't bother quoting me.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-24-2011, 11:36 PM
How is that a fair argument, hes CLEARLY overating Kobe. When Shaq left he tried to play the Bron/Wade role of attacking primarily from the top of the key and doing the distributing/scoring/ball dominating thing. The results were he had what was easily his least productive season of his prime.


Meanwhile Shaq remained an MVP caliber player.

Yeah that's true. But that was around the time I thought he was the best player in the league subtract the first season without Shaq.

nickdymez
07-24-2011, 11:37 PM
just watching the game, ive seen them both play, and kobes the better basketball player, more skill
lebrons the better athlete yes, but in basketball skill, kobes ahead
and plus, the majority of players, former players, coaches say that kobes the best

Nobody here cares about watching the game and judging players like that.. They would much rather wait till the end and let the advanced stats do the talking.

knightstemplar
07-24-2011, 11:44 PM
Nobody here cares about watching the game and judging players like that.. They would much rather wait till the end and let the advanced stats do the talking.

lol
while players, former players, and coaches claim kobe is the best

but oh lebron has a higher PER, oh hes better LOL, oh he has a high winshare, omg his OTGJK% is high oh my

Tony_Starks
07-24-2011, 11:48 PM
By using CP3 are you insinuating that Kobe wasnt the most worthy? Why would the voters hesitate for KG when it was his best year stats/wins wise?


CP3 was the popular favorite and feel good story that year. I still felt Kobe had a better year and was mvp, I just personally liked his two previous seasons better.

Hypothetically even if KG had the best statistical year of his life if he's not head and shoulders the best player on the best team he won't get MVP with these voters since thats the criteria now. Which is why there was no way getting around acknowledging Kobe that year, had NO edged out Lakers for best in the West then CP3 would've won it deserving or not..... (just like D Rose did this year)

juno10
07-24-2011, 11:51 PM
lol
while players, former players, and coaches claim kobe is the best

but oh lebron has a higher PER, oh hes better LOL, oh he has a high winshare, omg his OTGJK% is high oh my

you don't need advanced stats to tell you lebron is better than kobe right now

Hellcrooner
07-24-2011, 11:52 PM
let me see..... 96-98 jordan 98 to 02 sahQ 02-06 duncan 06-11 lebron......


i guess his mvp year and thats it.

knightstemplar
07-24-2011, 11:54 PM
you don't need advanced stats to tell you lebron is better than kobe right now

right now yes lebron is better
in 2010-11 lebron was better, i agree on that

juno10
07-24-2011, 11:58 PM
right now yes lebron is better
in 2010-11 lebron was better, i agree on that

he was better 2 years before that to, also to answer the thread i think he was the best for 2 yrs where it was a consensus his mvp yr and the 35 5 5 yr. and a bunch of yrs where he was in the discussion

zn23
07-25-2011, 12:02 AM
Godbe has been the best player since 2005.

nickdymez
07-25-2011, 12:09 AM
Godbe has been the best player since 2005.

We talking about Kobe though

Hawkeye15
07-25-2011, 12:26 AM
CP3 was the popular favorite and feel good story that year. I still felt Kobe had a better year and was mvp, I just personally liked his two previous seasons better.

Hypothetically even if KG had the best statistical year of his life if he's not head and shoulders the best player on the best team he won't get MVP with these voters since thats the criteria now. Which is why there was no way getting around acknowledging Kobe that year, had NO edged out Lakers for best in the West then CP3 would've won it deserving or not..... (just like D Rose did this year)

what years are you referring to? If its 2008, Paul EASILY had a better year than Kobe's MVP season.

As for the KG reference, if you are referring to 04', that again is KG in a landslide. 04-05' I would also argue KG was better.

Stop valuing team success so much peeps. A player can't help what his GM was capable of giving him

i.got.the.nutz
07-25-2011, 12:46 AM
How can anyone say Lebron was the best player this past season when he couldn't win it all with arguably the 2nd or 3rd best player on the planet and another top 15 player. This is sports, where winning actually holds weight. Dirk was the best player in the NBA last season. Plain and simple.

Bos_Sports4Life
07-25-2011, 12:49 AM
again,

Kobe was a top 3 player for several yrs and has remained top 5 for a looong time....

however, at no point did he have an undisputed better yr than anyone in a single year...

But, thats what happens when his best years coincided with shaq, duncan, kg, lebron ect ect

Tony_Starks
07-25-2011, 12:52 AM
what years are you referring to? If its 2008, Paul EASILY had a better year than Kobe's MVP season.

As for the KG reference, if you are referring to 04', that again is KG in a landslide. 04-05' I would also argue KG was better.

Stop valuing team success so much peeps. A player can't help what his GM was capable of giving him


Im not so sure about easily, an argument can be made for Kobe or Paul that year. My KG reference was in response to chronz asking why would they hesitate to vote for KG in his best stat year. I personally don't like the "best player on the best team" deal but that's what they do, and that year KG was the man on the team with the best record in the west so it fits the description.

If it's up to me MVP should mean just that who is the BEST player that year in the league. The year where Kobe put up 35-5-5, was making history all over the place and got a horrid horrid horrid team to almost 50 wins was nothing short of brilliant and he got nada.

Matter of fact, to avg 5 assist playing with those bums was pretty much mvp worthy in itself!!

Chronz
07-25-2011, 12:56 AM
CP3 was the popular favorite and feel good story that year. I still felt Kobe had a better year and was mvp, I just personally liked his two previous seasons better.

Hypothetically even if KG had the best statistical year of his life if he's not head and shoulders the best player on the best team he won't get MVP with these voters since thats the criteria now. Which is why there was no way getting around acknowledging Kobe that year, had NO edged out Lakers for best in the West then CP3 would've won it deserving or not..... (just like D Rose did this year)

I completely get what your saying about Kobe, I just don't see the correlation with KG. To me the wasd his absolute apex.

nickdymez
07-25-2011, 12:57 AM
Im not so sure about easily, an argument can be made for Kobe or Paul that year. My KG reference was in response to chronz asking why would they hesitate to vote for KG in his best stat year. I personally don't like the "best player on the best team" deal but that's what they do, and that year KG was the man on the team with the best record in the west so it fits the description.

If it's up to me MVP should mean just that who is the BEST player that year in the league. The year where Kobe put up 35-5-5, was making history all over the place and got a horrid horrid horrid team to almost 50 wins was nothing short of brilliant and he got nada.

Matter of fact, to avg 5 assist playing with those bums was pretty much mvp worthy in itself!!

People dont seem to remember the streak of 30 and 40 point games in a row he was doing.. Plus wasn't that the 81 and 60 through 3 quarters year? I would think those things alone would garner MVP, seeing that his team won all those games... People forget the reaction other players and coaches had to his performances.. They weren't looking at "per" and "ws", they were looking at greatness right before their eyes..

NYtilIdie
07-25-2011, 01:00 AM
Kobe's best years was when the Laker's were s**t after Shaq left and s**t until Pau came along in 08'. So Kobe was the best from 05-07.

So for a good 2 seasons, nothing more.

NYtilIdie
07-25-2011, 01:03 AM
You guys should know that the MVP trophy is nothing more than a popularity contest. By all-star break the media jumps behind the hype machine and they become the "unanimous" winner. Stats don't matter when it comes to the MVP trophy anymore, its all about the best player on the best team.

Tony_Starks
07-25-2011, 01:13 AM
I'll put it like this, 10 years from now when some young buck is asking about that Kobe guy he's not going to want to hear anything about efficiency stats, he's going to be saying "what was it like to actually watch him play every night? What was it like the night he scored 81?......" and so forth

NYtilIdie
07-25-2011, 01:18 AM
I'll put it like this, 10 years from now when some young buck is asking about that Kobe guy he's not going to want to hear anything about efficiency stats, he's going to be saying "what was it like to actually watch him play every night? What was it like the night he scored 81?......" and so forth

Well, he'll mostly likely be asking us and we'll just say he wasn't all he was cracked up to be.

i.got.the.nutz
07-25-2011, 01:28 AM
Well, he'll mostly likely be asking us and we'll just say he wasn't all he was cracked up to be.

:facepalm:

The Final Boss
07-25-2011, 01:29 AM
Long enough for him to have a 17 page thread. Btw 'Saddler's Not Straight' didn't he drop 81 on your squad?

Reality>>>>>PSD

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-25-2011, 01:30 AM
:facepalm:

Nytillidie is right though. ESPN blew him way out of proportion then he should've been. As soon as he won the chip last year ESPN said he was the second best of all time.

THE MTL
07-25-2011, 01:30 AM
I voted 3 because of the Kobe dick riders. But its more like 2 seasons. I would say he was truly the best player in the league when he averaged 35ppg that season and then one of the seasons after that.

Lebron James has been the best player in the NBA for a while in my opinion.

The Final Boss
07-25-2011, 01:38 AM
Nytillidie is right though. ESPN blew him way out of proportion then he should've been. As soon as he won the chip last year ESPN said he was the second best of all time.

I don't know what's funnier-your take on Bryant. Or you watching ESPN.

Bryant would have destroyed the league in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's.

Bryant played against more superior athletes than Jordan.

NYtilIdie
07-25-2011, 01:38 AM
Nytillidie is right though. ESPN blew him way out of proportion then he should've been. As soon as he won the chip last year ESPN said he was the second best of all time.

I'll never forget at half time of Game 7 in the 2010 Finals, Michael Wilboun (yes, the dumbass Chicago fan on ESPN) was just bashing Kobe for not showing up in the biggest game of his career, saying Jordan would've never played like this in a Game 7 of The Finals. Stating this is what separates Kobe from Jordan.

So, after going 6-24 (not much better than his halftime shooting), ESPN had Michael Wilboun narrate a lil' video package explaining why Kobe is closest thing MJ :laugh2:

I thought it was a nice little jab from ESPN to Wilboun.

knightstemplar
07-25-2011, 01:44 AM
again,

Kobe was a top 3 player for several yrs and has remained top 5 for a looong time....

however, at no point did he have an undisputed better yr than anyone in a single year...

But, thats what happens when his best years coincided with shaq, duncan, kg, lebron ect ect

alvin gentry disagrees

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO1JlIZB3Co

NYtilIdie
07-25-2011, 01:44 AM
I don't know what's funnier-your take on Bryant. Or you watching ESPN.

Bryant would have destroyed the league in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's.

Bryant played against more superior athletes than Jordan.

So would Shaq, Hakeem, Lebron, Duncan, MJ, Ewing, Stockton, Malone yada, yada, yada.

Yes, Kobe has played against more athletic athletes than MJ, but that doesn't mean their more "superior" athletes. MJ played in an era where defense was more physical. We all hear about the "superstar" calls in today's league, while I think they're false claims people just use when their team loses, the fact that people believe that star plays get "special treatment" shows how far the league has sunk in terms of defense.