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View Full Version : NBA Mock Off-Season Playoffs - 4) New York Knicks vs. 5) Boston Celtics (Part 2)



KnicksorBust
07-23-2011, 02:39 PM
Hello Everyone,

Welcome to the NBA Mock Off-season Playoff voting. Every summer, between 50-65 PSD users participate in a game where each GM takes on the challenge of running the off-season for an NBA team. Those GM's are free to make trades, signings, pick up team option on players, conduct the draft etc as ways to help better improve their team. What we have here is the results of those GM's hard-work as we have now reached the playoffs.

Keep in mind when voting that teams have changed dramatically through the mock and many teams are operating with completely new starting line ups. So please take the time to look at the teams closely (depth chart and write up) before voting. Try to avoid being a homer and vote simply on who is the better team in the match up.

4) New York Knicks vs. 5) Boston Celtics



Knicks Have Home Court Advantage

Knicks Depth Chart

C: Dwight Howard (38) / Louis Amundson (10)
PF: Charlie Villanueva (28)/ Hakim Warrick (20)
SF: Carmelo Anthony (38) / Francisco Garcia (10)
SG: Keith Bogans (20)/ Anthony Parker (20)/ Francisco Garcia (8)
PG: Chauncey Billups (35)/ Jimmer Fredette (13)/ Earl Watson

Celtics Depth Chart

PG: Tony Parker / Aaron Brooks / Jonny Flynn / Anthony Carter
SG: Joe Johnson / Brandon Rush / James Posey
SF: Richard Jefferson / Jared Dudley / Andres Nocioni
PF: Amare Stoudemire / Ryan Anderson /
C:Kendrick Perkins / Omer Asik / Mehmet Okur

Knicks Write-Up:
Before I go into matchups, I want to break down this Knicks team. What has Dwight always been missing? A number one scorer to take the scoring load off, right? In comes Carmelo Anthony, one of the most gifted scorers in the game. Doubling Dwight in the paint will be next to impossible with an explosive scorer in Carmelo Anthony on the floor and good shooters around them. What is Carmelo Anthonyís weakness? Defense right? Well now he gets to play with that Dwight Howard guy. Together they make an absolutely lethal combo. But maybe they still need a vet to lead the team to the promise land right? Former Finals MVP Chauncey Billups is running the show and is the leader of this squad in the locker room.
Now you might be thinking, ďeww but they have Charlie Villanueva and Keith Bogans in the starting lineup!Ē But letís slow down and think about this. Bogans is a solid defender and can hit the three ball. All he needs to do is play 20 minutes of tough basketball. Now, although Charlie Villanueva may leave a bad taste in your mouth because of that disgusting contract of his, he is a very nice fit next to Dwight Howard. He can stretch the floor with his shooting and scoring ability and let Melo and Dwight operate. Also, Bogans and Charlie wonít need to log in hefty minutes. We have Hakim Warrick, Anthony Parker and Francisco Garcia off the bench to spell them.
Defensively, youíre probably wondering how a team with Melo and Charlie V are going to be good on D. Two words: Dwight Howard. The Orlando Magic were the 4th best defensive team in the league the last two years with the likes of Hedo Turkoglu, Jason Richardson and Rashard Lewis logging hefty minutes and starting. Why would this Knicks team be different? Iím not going to try to vouch for Charlie V as a solid defender, because, well heís not. But Carmelo Anthony, contrary to popular belief, is a very good man to man defender. He might wander off his man and not give 100% in the regular season on D but when the playoffs roll around you better believe that heís playing tough defense. Keith Bogans started for the best defensive team in the league this year. He is a fine fit. Chauncey Billups is getting up there in age but heís still a very savvy defender. Each one of these players would benefit greatly from playing with Dwight on defense. Now, onto the positional matchups:

Point Guard Matchup: Chauncey Billups vs Toney Parker:
Chauncey Billups is getting up there in age but heís still an extremely efficient scorer and a great three point shooter and leader. He recorded a TS% of 62%, good for fifth in the NBA. On this team he will only be asked to be the third option on the offensive end, and will again be able to be his efficient self. His leadership will also be key on both ends of the floor for this team. Tony Parker is coming off of a solid year statistically on the Spurs, but he lives in the paint. And in the paint is Dwight Howard. Dwight will be able to alter the shots of Parker and make him less effective on the offensive end. Also, Chaunceyís savvy defense will cause Tony Parker to force the issue and turn the ball over. In fact, Parker averages an abysmal five turnovers per game in his last five games versus Billups. Because of Billupsís role on this team, his efficiency and the Dwight Howard effect in the paint, this matchup is a draw.

Shooting Guard Matchup: Keith Bogans vs. Joe Johnson
Now we know that the Celtics win this matchup handily. Joe Johnson is the superior player here. But he is known for his terrible playoff performances. He just disappears in some games. Against the Bulls this year in the playoffs, Joe Johnson had only two games where he scored more than 20 points. The games when he was unable to score above 20 points, his team lost. Keith Bogans did a respectable job versus him this year and I donít see why that would change in this matchup. Joe Johnson may have a couple of big games, but thatís it. He isnít a consistent playoff performer and history proves that. Iíd also like to add that Keith Bogans was able to knock down 10 of 21 three point attempts versus Johnson and the Hawks this postseason. Nonetheless, Joe Johnson has the advantage here.

Small Forward Matchup: Carmelo Anthony vs. Richard Jefferson
This matchup is easily in Carmelo Anthonyís favor. He finally has the luxury of playing with a post option like Dwight and will thrive in this situation. RJ is a solid player but he is clearly declining and is coming off a disappointing year in San Antonio. Carmelo Anthony has average about 25 and 7 against RJ in their last six matchups and his stats would only get better against a declining RJ and a great post option in Dwight Howard. Carmelo definitely has the advantage here.

Power Forward Matchup: Charlie Villanueva vs. Amaríe Stoudemire
Amaríe will get his. He has a clear advantage here. However, Charlie will also get his. In their last two meetings, Charlie Villanueva has recorded 14 points (4-6 from 3) and 11 points (3-4 from 3). Amaríe is a terrible man to man defender. He lets players have career games versus him just to stay out of foul trouble. In this matchup, heíll either let Charlie V get free and bomb away from deep or get into foul trouble. Both good for the Knicks.

Center Matchup: Dwight Howard vs. Kendrick Perkins
Youíre probably thinking to yourself: ďOh this isnít a bad matchup for the Cís, Perk is a good defender.Ē Well you would be wrong. In the last three games of their playoff matchup in 2010 (this is a healthy Perkins mind you), Dwight averaged 27 points, 13 rebounds, and 3.3 blocks, all while shooting 65% from the field and getting Perkins in foul trouble. Itís going to be absolutely impossible to double Dwight with a superstar in Melo on the wing and good shooters around him. Heíd thrive as the second option. On defense, Dwight will be able to focus on help defense as Perkins is a pathetic offensive player. He will help to slow down Amaríe, JJ and Parker in the paint. Big advantage here for Dwight and the Knicks

Benches: Jimmer Fredette/Anthony Parker/Francisco Garcia/Hakim Warrick/Louis Amundson vs. Aaron Brooks/Brandon Rush/Jared Dudley/Omer Asik/Ryan Anderson
Jimmer is only going to have to play about thirteen minutes per game and provide outside scoring to stretch the floor. Parker is a good veteran presence off the bench who can shoot the three ball well and play good defense. Garcia is a talented wing player who can provide a nice scoring touch off the bench and really spread the floor well and score efficiently(15 pts/36min, 1.5-4 3PM/3PA, 55 TS%, 52 eFG%). Warrick and Amundson are high energy players who can provide sparks off the bench. Warrick is an ideal stretch 4 who can score and Amundson can provide good defense and rebounding. On their side, we see Aaron Brooks who is a very solid backup PG behind Parker, but had a terrible year and was haunted by injuries. Brandon Rush and Jared Dudley are two solid role playing wings off the bench, and Anderson and Okur are good big men off the bench. The combination of scoring, energy and defense of Jimmer, Garcia, Parker, Warrick and Amundson makes this a draw.

Now you look at the matchup and you see two draws, two advantages for the Celtics and two advantages for the Knicks. So you go to late game execution and superstar play. Can Joe Johnson shake off his awful playoff history and be a clutch scorer in the playoffs? Parker is a very good penetrator but heís not the guy you want to take the last shot. Melo and Billups are two of the clutchest players in the league. When the game is on the line there isnít a player in the league Iíd rather have with the ball than Carmelo Anthony, and Billups isnít called Mr. Big Shot for nothing. Dwight was able to carry a team of Hedo, Rashard Lewis, Courtney Lee to the finals. With a superstar along him and a great veteran leader, itís hard to believe that he is going to lose in the first round. Also, the mismatches at SF and C give the Knicks a huge advantage because double teaming would be out of the question with shooters like Charlie V, Anthony Parker, Keith Bogans, Chauncey Billups and Francisco Garcia and two bona-fide superstars. The star effect of Billups, Dwight and Melo has to be the deciding factor here. The Knicks would win in 7 games with home court advantage and a crazy Knicks crowd behind them.

Celtics Write-Up:
Point Guard

Tony Parker v. Chauncey Billups

Both players are veterans. Both have finals experience, and championship rings. Both are proven winners. The difference? Tony Parker is 29 and in the prime of his career and Billups is on the decline at age 34 (will be 35 next season). Parker is quicker, faster, and better rounded than Billups at this stage in his career. Parker proved a lot of critics wrong this past season, and showed that he can come back from injury and still play effectively. He started 78 games for the Spurs while averaging 17.5 points, 7 assists, and 3 boards. He shot his highest TS% (.570) in years, and added an impressive eFG% of .531. On top of that, Parker contributed .156 WS/48. When Tim Duncan was in his prime, Parker showed how dominant he can be on the pick and roll. With Amare on the floor, Parker will regain that dominance that made him a 3-time all star and world champion in San Antonio. Parker is truly in his prime while Billups is well past the wrong side of 30.

Shooting Guard

Joe Johnson v. Keith Bogans

Joe Johnson got one of the worst contracts in NBA history, that is no secret. Does that make him any worse of a player? I think not. He is still playing at an all-star caliber, and has proven that he can be a go-to player on the perimeter. Keith Bogans is a nice piece, and a solid bench player, but he doesnít stand a chance against Johnson. In 20 career matchups, Johnson has averaged 21 points, 5 assists and 4 rebounds while being guarded by Keith Bogans. Bogans on the other hand has averaged 7 points, 1 assist and 3 rebounds against Johnson. Furthermore, in head to head playoff matchups, Bogans has averaged 5 points on 42% shooting compared to Johnsonís 20 points on 49% shooting. Additionally, unlike with the Hawks, Joe Johnson would have infinitely less pressure on him with Parker, Amare and Jefferson on the floor with him. Joe just turned 30, and is still in the prime of his career. With a solid supporting cast, you will see how effective Joe Johnson can beÖEspecially when he has a vastly inferior player attempting to shut him down.

Small Forward

Richard Jefferson v. Carmelo Anthony

I wont sugar coat it Ė Melo is an absolute stud compared to Jefferson, but the matchup is a lot closer than you may think. In 14 career matchups, Carmelo averages 21 points on 42% shooting against Jefferson. Jefferson averages 17 points on 53% shooting against Melo. Surprisingly, Jefferson has done quite well throughout his career in head to head matchups against Carmelo. Jefferson shoots 49% from 3pt range, as well as the same amount of assists and one less rebound (head to head matchups). Melo shoots 37% from 3pt range in the same games. Some may think that Jefferson is on the backside of his career, but he just turned 31, and has drastically improved his defense and shooting percentages the last few years. Melo is the better player no doubt, but Jefferson has always had success against him.

Power Forward

Amare Stoudemire v. Charlie Villanueva

Charlie V. isnít as bad as some people may think, but the differential in talent in this matchup is immense. Amaríe is one of the most athletic players in the league, and one of the best players at his position. His defense is nothing to write home about, but he prides himself on his offensive prowess. In 10 career matchups, Amare has completely dominated Villanueva. In these head to head matchups, Amare averages 26 points, 9 rebounds and 2 assists while shooting 63% from the field. In the same games, Villanueva has averaged 11 points, 5 rebounds and 1 assist while shooting 45% from the field. In their last three matchups, Amare has outscored Villanueva by 60 points (90:30). On top of that, Amare has outrebounded Villanueva 33 to 7. While Villanueva is a serviceable role player, he has been completely dominated by Amare throughout his career.

Center

Kendrick Perkins v. Dwight Howard

Itís not news to anyone: Dwight is good. Great, even. Heís the leagueís most polarizing big man, and a legit franchise player. Heís a better all around player than Kendrick Perkins, and is certainly more valuable to a team. Perk is no slouch, however. My big man prides himself on playing great defense, and we have enough offensive firepower to hide his lack of an offensive game. In 22 head to head matchups, Dwight has averaged 16 points and 12 boards against Perk. Solid numbers, but is that type of performance going to win your team a playoff series? Not likely. In those head to head matchups, Dwight has also averaged over 3 turnovers per game, and has been held to 18 points or less in 4 of their last 5 matchups. Dwight is the better player, but if any center is capable of locking him down, itís Kendrick Perkins.

Bench

Celtics:
Aaron Brooks, Brandon Rush, Jared Dudley, Ryan Anderson, Omer Asik, James Posey, Mehmet Okur, Andres Nocioni, Anthony Carter, Jonny Flynn.

Knicks:
Jimmer Freddette, Anthony Parker, Francisco Garcia, Hakim Warrick, Louis Amundson, Earl Watson, Manny Harris.

If for some reason my starting lineup canít get the job done, my bench certainly can. The Celtics have arguably the best depth in the entire league. Aaron Brooks has been a capable starter in the NBA, and is one of the best backup point guards around. Brandon Rush is a very solid perimeter defender, and great shooter from deep. Jared Dudley has shot over 43% from 3 the last two years, while being capable on the defensive end as well. Ryan Anderson is a multi-talented forward that can play the 3 or 4, shoot from deep or work it in the post. Omer Asik is a great defensive player, and showed his value in his playoff run with the Bulls. On top of these players, we have veteran wings Andres Nocioni and James Posey, both of whom are excellent on the defensive end, and can contribute offensively as well. Okur has been a starter for the last decade, and has shown his value over the years. Heís a great shooter for a big man, and can still contribute to a championship contender. The Knicks depth simply does not stack up. My bench has youth, experience, shooters, defenders, and size.

X-Factor

Coaching

Everyone knows that Doc Rivers is a more accomplished coach than Mike DíAntoni. Rivers is great at managing veteran players, and stressing the importance of defense. As he has shown over the past few years in Boston, he is very capable at getting the most out of veterans, and getting them to buy in on the defensive end. Pierce and Allen were never considered good defenders before playing for Rivers, and they are both considered very solid on the defensive side of the ball.

DíAntoni on the other hand has never coached defense. The addition of Dwight helps, but he simply doesnít fit into DíAntoniís system. DíAntoni coached teams always score a ton, but they also get scored on a ton. My team has the offensive firepower and the defensive game-planning to dominate the Knicks in a playoff series. They simply donít matchup well with the Celtics, regardless of the fact that they have two superstars.

Sadds The Gr8
07-23-2011, 02:40 PM
Overtime Game 7. I'll still go with the Celtics

PocketKings
07-23-2011, 02:45 PM
I didn't vote the first time around, but I'm voting now in this tiebreaker...
After thinking this out for a very long time, I've came to the conclusion that this is a definite 7 game series & in a close game 7 with a few minutes left at a rawkus Madison Square Garden in this series I think the player I'd want the ball in his hands in a game 7 with the game on the line would be Carmelo Anthony with Amare being 2nd.

I think the Knicks could deter Amare more so with the presence of Howard versus the Celtics being able to deter Melo.

In the end I give it to the Knicks by literally a pinch of hairs... I literally flip-flopped positions on this match-up so much I couldn't make a confident vote.

I do think Boston's depth could be a problem for the Knicks in this series but when its all said & done I think the duo of Melo & Dwight will overcome.

Great job to both GM's and they are two GM's/posters that I have incredible respect for.

greg_ory_2005
07-23-2011, 03:01 PM
Celtics for me again.

Lil Half Dead
07-23-2011, 03:17 PM
Knicks for me.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-23-2011, 03:18 PM
Knicks still for me. No one countered my point that Perk's post D was horrible in OKC (.97 points per possession, ranked 218th in the league). No Garnett, a not 100% Perk guarding Dwight? No thanks, especially when you consider Dwight has expanded his arsenal this year.

Joe Johnson, Tony Parker and Amare' are all nice players but none of them play good defense. Parker is a PG, so I guess he's somewhat excused, especially since guarding Billups, he won't have to worry about staying in front of him. Still Billups is taller and could post him up/shoot over him. As I said, with Perkins struggling defensively against Howard, the rest of the players being meh defenders, where does the D come from? Jefferson is pretty good I guess but I don't think he'd lock down Melo.

To the final point, about the benches, if the starters are playing the majority of the minutes, and one side is dominating the other, I see no reason why the bench is going to make up for that.

In addition, Perk has a propensity to get into foul trouble. Ok, Asik comes in. Maybe the Celts think their new Center is better on Post Up D. Well they'd be wrong. Asik, was even worse than Perkins on Post Up D this year, allowing 1 point per possession, which ranked 235th in the league. Asik is a good defender and fortunately for him, there aren't many Centers in the league who can post up and score at will. Howard can. Again, another bad matchup for the Celts.

So the Celts have 2 Centers, neither who can play good post up D. They have a bunch of other players who aren't that strong defensively, the only one thats decent being Jefferson and they're going up against 2 of the better scorers in the league. I smell lots of points being given up by the Celts.

No doubt the Knicks D falls apart when Howard leave but is the time he spends on the bench enough for the Celts to overcome their own defensive issues? The Knicks could certainly get a lot of minutes out of Howard considering how young the guys is.

Admittedly, if Howard is in foul trouble, then the Celts have the big edge. Amare is good enough to draw some fouls on Howard. Despite that, I'll still go with the Knicks, especially considering the fact that if the Celts have any hope of playing D, they'll need to double Howard, which should open room for the shooters.

Chacarron
07-23-2011, 03:39 PM
Still got the Celtics.

roshan3ai
07-23-2011, 04:01 PM
Overtime Game 7. I'll still go with the Celtics

Really? Game 7 at the Garden. Knicks fans hungry for their first playoff series victory in a decade. Melo in his hometown in a position to deliver it with the best defensive player in the league and a player as clutch as Mr. Big Shot at PG. You think the Knicks would lose?

Corey
07-23-2011, 04:30 PM
Really? Game 7 at the Garden. Knicks fans hungry for their first playoff series victory in a decade. Melo in his hometown in a position to deliver it with the best defensive player in the league and a player as clutch as Mr. Big Shot at PG. You think the Knicks would lose?

Are you going to counter every opinion that doesn't favor your team? :laugh2:

Anyways, enough with the "Mr. Big Shot" crap. He got that nickname in 2002, and it was because he hit ONE shot at the buzzer. He also missed the shot right before it that would have tied the game.

Newsflash:

Here’s their definition of a game-winning shot opportunity: “24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.”

The stat is not kind to Mr. Big Shot.

Something all Pistons fans would probably guess — Billups liked the ball in those situations. During those seasons, he took 37 shots that fit that criteria. Only seven guys — LeBron James, Vince Carter, Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant, Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford and Dwyane Wade — have attempted more.

Billups has hit just six of those attempts, a 16.2 percent clip. Keep in mind, that the league-wide percentage is only 29 percent during those seasons, but Billups is still pretty significantly below that.

Of the four best offensive players on the Pistons, Billups had the worst percentage in those situations of the four. Here’s how they stack up:

• Hamilton: 8-for-22 (36.4 percent)

• Prince: 6-for-17 (35.3 percent)

• Rasheed Wallace: 5-for-30 (16.7 percent)

Yep, Mr. Big Shot indeed. (....Nahhhht)

He didn't even shoot the best percentages in clutch situations on his own team. Not even top 3.


Oh, and since when does playing in your home town a determining playoff factor in a playoff series? That's an interesting metric that I haven't heard discussed before.

roshan3ai
07-23-2011, 04:35 PM
Are you going to counter every opinion that doesn't favor your team? :laugh2:

Anyways, enough with the "Mr. Big Shot" crap. He got that nickname in 2002, and it was because he hit ONE shot at the buzzer. He also missed the shot right before it that would have tied the game.

Newsflash:


Yep, Mr. Big Shot indeed. (....Nahhhht)

Alright that's all good and fun. But I have yet to see you refute the arguments that Pats, KoB and I have posted about Perkins-Dwight and RJ-Melo.

And what's wrong with defending my team? I think they would win the matchup and I'm describing the circumstances of a Game 7 in OT. I see no issue with that.

roshan3ai
07-23-2011, 04:40 PM
Oh, and since when does playing in your home town a determining playoff factor in a playoff series? That's an interesting metric that I haven't heard discussed before.

I'm describing the situation Melo would be in. The anticipation would be higher than ever. Just adds to the suspense. But you can continue to harp on these small things and ignore the arguements that Pats, KoB and I posted

coryd238
07-23-2011, 04:42 PM
"Mr. Big Shot" does not fit Chauncey... at all.

But Melo and Dwight would overcome the C's depth, I think. So I got them.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-23-2011, 04:53 PM
Oh, and since when does playing in your home town a determining playoff factor in a playoff series? That's an interesting metric that I haven't heard discussed before.

You should ask JB about HCA :laugh2:

Corey
07-23-2011, 05:00 PM
I'm describing the situation Melo would be in. The anticipation would be higher than ever. Just adds to the suspense. But you can continue to harp on these small things and ignore the arguements that Pats, KoB and I posted

Anticipation + Suspense =/= playoff success.

And harp on small things? That was your first post in this thread. Okey doke.

Corey
07-23-2011, 05:02 PM
You should ask JB about HCA :laugh2:

Yea, I was more referring to him referencing the fact that Carmelo is from new york and that somehow plays a role, which is silly. Stuff like that is great for the newspapers, but that's about it.

HCA can play a role at times in certain scenarios.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-23-2011, 05:11 PM
Celtics again.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-23-2011, 05:12 PM
HCA can play a role at times in certain scenarios.

I'm not saying it can't (usually the team with HCA is the better team) but I'm sure you must be aware of JB's "obsession" with HCA :p

PS- Just so no one misinterprets my post, I'm not bashing him. I actually find his knowledge on all things HCA to be quite informative.

roshan3ai
07-23-2011, 06:31 PM
Bump

Raps18-19 Champ
07-23-2011, 06:36 PM
I guess it also depends on Perkins. I still have high hopes for Perkins so I think his defense will be effective enough to get at Dwight.

roshan3ai
07-23-2011, 06:37 PM
That's odd. MWC, Mr.Baller, and Raps voted for the Knicks last thread but not here. Any reason in particular?

Raps18-19 Champ
07-23-2011, 06:42 PM
I just realized how shallow the Knicks bench is.

The Celtics don't have a good bench either but for that Knicks team, it's like you have to expect the 3 stars to play the full 48.

I also thought in the first thread that the Knicks would receive a lot of wide open shots from Carmelo and Billups because of Howard. But realizing that Perkins took on Howard one on one limited the open shots his team mates took. I still believe Perkins is a player who can play him one on one.

I am also a big fan of Joe Johnson.

roshan3ai
07-23-2011, 06:44 PM
I just realized how shallow the Knicks bench is.

The Celtics don't have a good bench either but for that Knicks team, it's like you have to expect the 3 stars to play the full 48.

I also thought in the first thread that the Knicks would receive a lot of wide open shots from Carmelo and Billups because of Howard. But realizing that Perkins took on Howard one on one limited the open shots his team mates took. I still believe Perkins is a player who can play him one on one.

I am also a big fan of Joe Johnson.

You should read Pats's post on perkins in that thread and this thread. He's not nearly as good as you think. And I posted the stats of Howard vs. Perkins in the previous thread.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-23-2011, 06:50 PM
You should read Pats's post on perkins in that thread and this thread. He's not nearly as good as you think. And I posted the stats of Howard vs. Perkins in the previous thread.

I still think his defense is sufficient enough to where it limits open 3's. Howard can score all he wants. As long as those other guys don't get theirs.

I guess it also depends on my hate for CV31 and my man crush for Joe Johnson.

roshan3ai
07-23-2011, 06:53 PM
Melo going one on one isn't a great matchup for them either though. Dwight will run rampant one on one if they don't double him.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-23-2011, 06:57 PM
Melo going one on one isn't a great matchup for them either though. Dwight will run rampant one on one if they don't double him.

I did realize that the Knicks have 2 of the bet players in this matchup.

But I still think Perkins can do decent against Howard.

1 thing I can really see though that made me change my mind was Amare getting Howard in foul trouble.

A Parker-Amare pick and roll can get Howard in a lot of trouble. And if he isn't in the game, the Knicks team does not have much to work with down low. Which would open Amare to just **** down there.

Corey
07-23-2011, 06:58 PM
Melo going one on one isn't a great matchup for them either though. Dwight will run rampant one on one if they don't double him.
Right, and Charlie Villanueva is going to stop Amare? Chauncey is going to stop Parker from getting where ever he wants? Bogans is going to deter Joe Johnson? Your bench is going to be able to keep up with my bench? Your coach is going to outcoach mine?

Raps18-19 Champ
07-23-2011, 07:01 PM
Right, and Charlie Villanueva is going to stop Amare? Chauncey is going to stop Parker from getting where ever he wants? Bogans is going to deter Joe Johnson? Your bench is going to be able to keep up with my bench? Your coach is going to outcoach mine?

Well CV doesn't need to stop Amare when Howard is there. His defense is good enough to cover both big men seeing as Perkins wont do much. All CV has to do is contest jump shots. If Amare gets past him, Howard can cover for him a bit. That doesn't mean CV can slouch off though. However, Howard needs to make sure he doesn't get into foul trouble. If that happens, the game is handed to the Celtics IMO.

Bogans defense is decent enough to contest Johnson. Johnson went down a bit this year too. Chauncey probably isn't quick enough to cover Parker. But Parker isn't big enough to cover Billups. Billups is known to post up on small PGs.

roshan3ai
07-23-2011, 07:06 PM
Right, and Charlie Villanueva is going to stop Amare? Chauncey is going to stop Parker from getting where ever he wants? Bogans is going to deter Joe Johnson? Your bench is going to be able to keep up with my bench? Your coach is going to outcoach mine?

Charlie won't stop Amar'e but Amar'e is a terrible defender. Charlie will have a ton of great looks on offense. Parker will be dettered by Dwight freaking Howard in the paint. There's a reason why his teams have been 4th in the league in defense the last two years even though he plays with srubs defensively. And Parker averages 5 TO's per game in this last few meetings with Billups. JJ had only two good games against Bogans out of six. He had only one good shooting night against Dwight and co in the playoffs. If he's that inconsistent here then it'll hurt your team. My bench just has to fit. I've explained why they fit well no point of re-hashing my argument.

Well you didn't deny that Dwight would have a huge series if he was guarded one on one. You didn't deny that RJ guarding Melo one on one isn't a good matchup. And if you double either Melo or Dwight, you'll be burned from my sharpshooters outside. You couldn't refute any of the stats posted against Perkins. Melo still averaged 25 and 7 against RJ in their last 6 matchups.

Corey
07-23-2011, 07:06 PM
Well CV doesn't need to stop Amare when Howard is there. His defense is good enough to cover both big men seeing as Perkins wont do much. All CV has to do is contest jump shots. If Amare gets past him, Howard can cover for him a bit. That doesn't mean CV can slouch off though. However, Howard needs to make sure he doesn't get into foul trouble. If that happens, the game is handed to the Celtics IMO.

Bogans defense is decent enough to contest Johnson. Johnson went down a bit this year too. Chauncey probably isn't quick enough to cover Parker. But Parker isn't big enough to cover Billups. Billups is known to post up on small PGs.
If he wants to foul out or get into foul trouble early, sure. (which you said later in your post)

Any game where Howard gets two fouls early, or 5 fouls late, it's pretty impossible to see a scenario where Amare doesn't have a monster game.

roshan3ai
07-23-2011, 07:15 PM
If he wants to foul out or get into foul trouble early, sure. (which you said later in your post)

Any game where Howard gets two fouls early, or 5 fouls late, it's pretty impossible to see a scenario where Amare doesn't have a monster game.

Now what if Amar'e is in foul trouble? He either plays physically on D and gets in foul trouble or lets his man do whatever he wants. So either Charlie V and Hakim Warrick score on him all series or he gets in foul trouble..

PF's vs. NY this year: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/qualified/false/position/power-forwards/split/18

Some huge numbers there

Corey
07-23-2011, 07:23 PM
Now what if Amar'e is in foul trouble? He either plays physically on D and gets in foul trouble or lets his man do whatever he wants. So either Charlie V and Hakim Warrick score on him all series or he gets in foul trouble..

PF's vs. NY this year: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/qualified/false/position/power-forwards/split/18

Some huge numbers there

:laugh2: @ Charlie V and Hakim Warrick scoring on ANYONE 'all series'. Warrick is a scrub and Villanueva shoots terrible percentages.

You're also completely dismissing Amare being put next to a better defender at center, and playing for a coach that preaches defense. Will it make Amar'e an all world defender? Hell no, but the Celtics have great team defense regardless of who is on the floor.

Hell, they almost beat Dwight in a 7 game series with Glen Davis as the starting center because of great team defense.

The stats you just posted show how little Mike D'Antoni cares about defense. Guess who Amar'e has played a majority of his career for? I have a hunch that his defensive metrics would improve A BIT when put in a scenario where the coaching staff actually preaches defense....Something YOUR coach has never done.

Edit: You might have wanted to check before posting that link. Villanueva is dead last in scoring out of ALL of the PFs on that list, behind the likes of Luke Harangody, Gary Forbes and Andray Blatche. Solid fail.

roshan3ai
07-23-2011, 07:32 PM
:laugh2: @ Charlie V and Hakim Warrick scoring on ANYONE 'all series'. Warrick is a scrub and Villanueva shoots terrible percentages.


:laugh2: @ you thinking Charlie V shoots terrible percentages. 39% from deep. TS% of 55% and and eFG% of 53%. Yeah they're terrible :rolleyes: And Warrick has been a solid scorer for his entire career and he does it at very good percentages.


You're also completely dismissing Amare being put next to a better defender at center, and playing for a coach that preaches defense. Will it make Amar'e an all world defender? Hell no, but the Celtics have great team defense regardless of who is on the floor.
:laugh2: Magically they're just going to have better team defense regardless of the players? A coach can only do so much. Parker is below average. Perkins is average at best (as evidenced by Pats's post).RJ is average at best. Amar'e is terrible.


Hell, they almost beat Dwight in a 7 game series with Glen Davis as the starting center because of great team defense.
This is an entire different unit. A coach makes a difference but what not nearly as much as you are making it out to be.

roshan3ai
07-23-2011, 07:36 PM
And honestly, I don't think coaches ever come into play in these games. If this was a real mock I would've fired Mike already to match my team's philosophy. Not really fair to criticize my team for something I have no control over

Corey
07-23-2011, 07:46 PM
Whether it matters or not in the mock, (in response to your other post), I honestly do think coaching plays a huge role in terms of team defense and philosophy.

I don't think the Celtics of 2008 would have been anything CLOSE to dominant defensively if they had anyone besides Doc and Thibs at the helm.

Speaking of Thibs, ask Bull fans if they think coaching is important. Thibs went there this year and just about every player dramatically improved on the defensive end of the court.

TO Rapz
07-23-2011, 07:52 PM
Im going C's again.

Kashmir13579
07-23-2011, 08:02 PM
The Knicks would EASILY win this series. Are you kidding me? What answer will they have for Dwight and 'MElo? And its silly to assume that the Celtics (And AMar'e LOL) would be good on defense without Paul Pierce, Rondo, and KG. They aren't good on defense because they are the Celtics, they are good on D because of those players.

Kashmir13579
07-23-2011, 08:03 PM
The Knicks with Dwight are easily the better defensive team in this matchup. i don't really think its close.

PocketKings
07-23-2011, 08:06 PM
21-15 is the actual vote count when you subtract posters with 100 posts or less votes into account.

Sadds The Gr8
07-23-2011, 08:09 PM
Celts gonna win

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-23-2011, 08:10 PM
The Knicks would EASILY win this series. Are you kidding me? What answer will they have for Dwight and 'MElo? And its silly to assume that the Celtics (And AMar'e LOL) would be good on defense without Paul Pierce, Rondo, and KG. They aren't good on defense because they are the Celtics, they are good on D because of those players.

I think you missed the fact that Doc is the coach though.

SteBO
07-23-2011, 08:22 PM
I think Corey is nailing everything I believe when it comes to a playoff series. Say what you want about coaching, but it's important in the NBA in terms of defensive philosophy and simply knowing what you're doing on the court. The Knicks with Dwight become a good defensive team, but not better than the C's in my opinion. They have a great defensive system in place, unlike the Knicks who have a coach that thinks scoring is the only important factor in winning games. I got the C's here.

Regarding the offensive matchups, Amare would have a field day against Charlie V, and Hakim Warrick. Are you kidding me? :laugh2:

Catfish1314
07-23-2011, 08:33 PM
I didn't vote in the last match-up but I've thought about it for a long time. I've read every post from Corey and rosh. It's a very close series but Boston's unlikely chances of getting Dwight in foul trouble and homecourt advantage seals it for me. Knicks in 7.

Great job to both GMs.

Corey
07-23-2011, 08:43 PM
Jimbob, you WOULD vote to check in as a GM :laugh2:

roshan3ai
07-23-2011, 09:48 PM
Need votes!!

Catfish1314
07-23-2011, 09:55 PM
What is the actual tally for this now?

PocketKings
07-23-2011, 09:58 PM
24-18

Boston has no votes from posters with 100 posts or less, and the Knicks have 3 of those votes.

So as it stands just minus 3 from the Knicks totals.

roshan3ai
07-23-2011, 10:13 PM
Damn this freaking rule is killing me

PocketKings
07-23-2011, 10:18 PM
Damn this freaking rule is killing me

24-21 now... with plenty of time.

Edit: As soon as I posted this another vote came in for the Knicks.

How funny would it be if this re-post ended in a tie as well? LOL :D

Raps18-19 Champ
07-23-2011, 10:20 PM
I change my vote.

I had a change of heart.

Give me the Knicks.

roshan3ai
07-23-2011, 10:27 PM
I change my vote.

I had a change of heart.

Give me the Knicks.

:)

PocketKings
07-23-2011, 10:30 PM
:)

Well if they let him switch his vote, its tied 23-23.

if not, than he's up 2, 24-22.

Knicks21
07-23-2011, 10:50 PM
Are you going to counter every opinion that doesn't favor your team? :laugh2:

Anyways, enough with the "Mr. Big Shot" crap. He got that nickname in 2002, and it was because he hit ONE shot at the buzzer. He also missed the shot right before it that would have tied the game.

Newsflash:


Yep, Mr. Big Shot indeed. (....Nahhhht)

He didn't even shoot the best percentages in clutch situations on his own team. Not even top 3.


Oh, and since when does playing in your home town a determining playoff factor in a playoff series? That's an interesting metric that I haven't heard discussed before.

I disagree. The term Clutch goes beyond 24 seconds, heck it goes throughout the game. Eg. Boston is on a 16 to 0 run than out of no where Billups hits 2 3 pointers and a couple of foul shots to give the Knicks a lead at the half, this keeps momentum and is what i define as clutch. Hitting shots or playing excellent defence when your team needs it the most. Tell me if you disagree here, but that Billups shot on Wade earlier in the season that gave NY the lead with under a minute to go is what i call clutch. Clutch doesn't have to be just game winners you know. Chauncey is Mr. Big Shot.

jimbobjarree
07-23-2011, 10:52 PM
Jimbob, you WOULD vote to check in as a GM :laugh2:

we said we wouldnt vote since we play the winner, and I was tired of having to click that button to see poll results :shrug:

PocketKings
07-23-2011, 10:53 PM
The count is tied 24-24 with the allowed vote change.

Corey
07-23-2011, 11:34 PM
PK with the outstanding play-by-play analysis.

:nod:

PatsSoxKnicks
07-23-2011, 11:43 PM
Wait, I'm still confused about the whole coaching thing. Is this supposed to be with current coaches or any coach? There was nothing about that in the front post. I could definitely see how having Doc vs Mike D would make a difference (although losing Frank hurts Doc's staff imo).

Anyways, I still think a lot of people are overrating Perkins, especially the guy that played in OKC. He was a very good player in the Celts system WITH KG, Thibs or Frank and a sold wing defender in Pierce. Well, there's no KG, no Pierce, Thibs is in Chicago and Frank left to take a job with the Pistons. Doc is a good coach but he's always been more of an offensive guy. Most of the defensive philosophies have come from either Thibs or Frank. I'm not saying that he can't coach D on his own but there's a reason he hired a defensive assistant to replace Thibs.

In any case, I don't see how the lack of all of those things + coming off a major injury is going to help improve Perk's 218th ranked post D or Asik's 235th ranked post D. And Howard can post up, so its not like they're getting to face Tyson Chandler or something.

But if coaching is supposed to be factored in (Doc vs Mike D), this is a pretty interesting matchup. More so then I originally thought.

PocketKings
07-24-2011, 01:24 AM
PK with the outstanding play-by-play analysis.

:nod:

:bow:

Call me PSD's Chick Hearn! lol.
:P

PocketKings
07-24-2011, 02:29 AM
26-25 Knicks in the lead...!

How effing crazy this matchup has been the last two days.

:O

Corey
07-24-2011, 11:28 AM
.

Mr. Baller
07-24-2011, 11:33 AM
What's the vote now with the under 100 rule?

Crackadalic
07-24-2011, 11:55 AM
Im still having a hard time picking smh. Dwight is probably the most impactful player on one side of the floor(defense) that Ive ever seen in a while. Perkins is overrated but he can do a decent job on him as shown is his last couple of matchups

Im too lazy to write everything else but I pick Boston which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The bench pretty much is what sold me. Letting Dwight/Melo/Billups handle all those minutes is gonna take a toll since teh depth is not there

tredigs
07-24-2011, 01:57 PM
GM's can view the results by clicking "view poll results". The poll option isn't necessary. Just saying.

jimbobjarree
07-24-2011, 02:48 PM
Knicks-Nets?

roshan3ai
07-24-2011, 02:54 PM
Knicks-Nets?

Yessir. SeeyA next round. :) it's gonna be fun

KnicksorBust
07-24-2011, 03:48 PM
GM's can view the results by clicking "view poll results". The poll option isn't necessary. Just saying.

Appreciate the input but it's much more convenient for GMs involved in the matchup to be able to see the votes automatically when they open the thread then having to click view poll results everytime and see a huge list of names taking up the whole screen.

Punk
07-24-2011, 04:12 PM
Knicks-Nets?

We will continue to dominate them. :clap:

jimbobjarree
07-24-2011, 09:17 PM
you've both been terrible for years...how has either dominated the other?

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-24-2011, 09:26 PM
you've both been terrible for years...how has either dominated the other?

Very true.