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Mile High Champ
07-22-2011, 01:58 PM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last three years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 2 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

1) Dirk Nowitzki
2) Amare Stoudemire
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)





2010 Off-Season PF Rankings

1) Pau Gasol
2) Dirk Nowitzki
3) Tim Duncan
4) Chris Bosh
5) Amare Stoudemire
6) Carlos Boozer
7) Kevin Garnett
8) Josh Smith
9) David Lee
10) Zach Randolph

2009 Off-Season PF Rankings

1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garnett
3) Dirk Nowitzki
4) Chris Bosh
5) Amare Stoudemire
6) Pau Gasol
7) Carlos Boozer
8) Antawn Jamison
9) Rashard Lewis
10) David West

2008 Off-Season PF rankings

1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garnett
3) Amare Stoudemire
4) Chris Bosh
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Elton Brand
7) Carlos Boozer
8) Pau Gasol
9) Antawn Jamison
10) David West

SteBO
07-22-2011, 02:00 PM
MHC, dupe accts is what put Pau over the top in that #2 poll. I think it would be fair to place Amare in that spot. He won it fair and square, for real PSD members were the ones that voted him.

LTBaByyy
07-22-2011, 02:00 PM
Kashmir is going to be pissed if Randolph goes here :)

Payback is a ___________

Gibby23
07-22-2011, 02:01 PM
Ill go bosh here.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-22-2011, 02:02 PM
MHC, dupe accts is what put Pau over the top in that #2 poll. I think it would be fair to place Amare in that spot. He won it fair and square, for real PSD members were the ones that voted him.

You'd have to change the poll then right

Mile High Champ
07-22-2011, 02:03 PM
Tough call. Here are some advanced Stats to look at..


Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 L.Aldridge 2010-11 25 81 3211 21.5 .549 .501 10.1 17.2 13.5 10.1 1.4 2.4 8.7 25.7 114 107 7.6 3.5 11.1 0.166
2 Chris Bosh 2010-11 26 77 2795 19.4 .569 .499 6.4 20.0 13.6 8.9 1.1 1.4 9.8 23.5 115 103 6.1 4.2 10.3 0.177
3 Kevin Garnett 2010-11 34 71 2220 20.6 .575 .529 4.9 28.7 17.5 13.5 2.3 2.0 11.1 22.3 110 95 3.4 5.6 9.0 0.194
4 Kevin Love 2010-11 22 73 2611 24.3 .593 .513 13.7 34.2 23.6 11.8 0.9 0.8 11.1 22.9 123 108 9.0 2.5 11.4 0.210
5 Zach Randolph 2010-11 29 75 2724 22.6 .552 .507 14.2 26.0 20.1 10.2 1.2 0.7 10.0 25.0 115 105 6.8 3.7 10.5 0.185
6 A.Stoudemire 2010-11 28 78 2870 22.7 .565 .505 7.8 17.6 12.7 13.2 1.2 3.8 12.5 30.9 109 108 5.4 2.6 8.0 0.134

SteBO
07-22-2011, 02:04 PM
My homerism tells me Bosh considering how well he thrived as the third option on the Heat, but if MHC honors my request replaces Pau with Amare, then Pau will go in #3.

CHANGO
07-22-2011, 02:04 PM
I'll go with Bosh...

My ranking is this:
1. Dirk
2. Pau
3. Bosh
4. Amare

Everything is ruined if Amare comes second. What I think is unfair because Pau Gasol is a better player, but is also unfair that Gasol has won thanks to votes of duplicate accounts.

1. Dirk
2. Amare
3. Pau
4. Bosh

Sadds The Gr8
07-22-2011, 02:05 PM
why no just skip this one since it #2 was a 2 man race? and was it dupes that ****ed the last poll up? i looked at the voters and i didn't notice any suspicious dupe names

SteBO
07-22-2011, 02:05 PM
You'd have to change the poll then right

Yup, but I'll leave that up to MHC. I don't wanna step on his toes.

LTBaByyy
07-22-2011, 02:08 PM
Stop crying about Amare losing, get over it.

And I voted Amare. Just vote for him again!

We are not going to do the poll again or replace the loser over the guy that won

-Kobe24-TJ19-
07-22-2011, 02:08 PM
Bosh for me.

Mile High Champ
07-22-2011, 02:08 PM
Due to the dupe votes for Gasol, It has to go to Amare. Mods please change the poll and add Gasol and remove Amare.

Kashmir13579
07-22-2011, 02:08 PM
Kashmir is going to be pissed if Randolph goes here :)

Payback is a ___________

I literally have no idea what you are talking about. You're coming off as an ultimate troll right now. Why don't you focus less on trolling, and more on celebrating your championship. You don't seem as happy as you should be.

tredigs
07-22-2011, 02:08 PM
Yeah, MileHigh - go ahead and change that #2 to Amare if you want your threads to receive any credibility going forward.

It was very clearly manipulate by dupe accounts (the idiot didn't even bother to make it sneaky and simply added a period to the end of regular posters names for his duplicate accounts).

Edit: I see your last post, good job.

Gibby23
07-22-2011, 02:09 PM
Due to the dupe votes for Gasol, It has to go to Amare. Mods please change the poll and add Gasol and remove Amare.

Can you also change my vote from Bosh to Gasol.

Kashmir13579
07-22-2011, 02:09 PM
My homerism tells me Bosh considering how well he thrived as the third option on the Heat, but if MHC honors my request replaces Pau with Amare, then Pau will go in #3.

It should be mandatory that he replaces Pau with Amar'e. What kind of message is that sending if he doesn't.

Mile High Champ
07-22-2011, 02:10 PM
Yeah, MileHigh - go ahead and change that #2 to Amare if you want your threads to receive any credibility going forward.

It was very clearly manipulate by dupe accounts (the idiot didn't even bother to make it sneaky and simply added a period to the end of regular posters names for his duplicate accounts).

Edit: I see your last post, good job.

Fair enough but I have always felt that the polls have maintained a high level of credibility as they issues have occurred in the past before.

LTBaByyy
07-22-2011, 02:10 PM
What dupe accounts???? I saw only 2. Gasol won by 4!!!!!!

Stop giving into SteBo and Kashmir crying.

We would do the poll again if it is that major, your not supposed to change the winners like that

Mile High Champ
07-22-2011, 02:11 PM
What dupe accounts???? I saw only 2. Gasol won by 4!!!!!!

Stop giving into SteBo and Kashmir crying.

We would do the poll again if it is that major, your not supposed to change the winners like that

There were quite a few, I found at least 6..

Swashcuff
07-22-2011, 02:11 PM
Tough call. Here are some advanced Stats to look at..


Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 L.Aldridge 2010-11 25 81 3211 21.5 .549 .501 10.1 17.2 13.5 10.1 1.4 2.4 8.7 25.7 114 107 7.6 3.5 11.1 0.166
2 Chris Bosh 2010-11 26 77 2795 19.4 .569 .499 6.4 20.0 13.6 8.9 1.1 1.4 9.8 23.5 115 103 6.1 4.2 10.3 0.177
3 Kevin Garnett 2010-11 34 71 2220 20.6 .575 .529 4.9 28.7 17.5 13.5 2.3 2.0 11.1 22.3 110 95 3.4 5.6 9.0 0.194
4 Kevin Love 2010-11 22 73 2611 24.3 .593 .513 13.7 34.2 23.6 11.8 0.9 0.8 11.1 22.9 123 108 9.0 2.5 11.4 0.210
5 Zach Randolph 2010-11 29 75 2724 22.6 .552 .507 14.2 26.0 20.1 10.2 1.2 0.7 10.0 25.0 115 105 6.8 3.7 10.5 0.185
6 A.Stoudemire 2010-11 28 78 2870 22.7 .565 .505 7.8 17.6 12.7 13.2 1.2 3.8 12.5 30.9 109 108 5.4 2.6 8.0 0.134

If we go by advanced stats there's no question Kevin Love goes here but there's more to the game than that. His D is always going to hurt him in these polls. Team record as well though that in itself is not merited.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
07-22-2011, 02:12 PM
:confused:

LTBaByyy
07-22-2011, 02:12 PM
There were quite a few, I found at least 6..

Did you look at the dupe accounts for Amare???

Please go check one by one

Gibby23
07-22-2011, 02:13 PM
There were quite a few, I found at least 6..

Did Amare have 0 dupe accounts vote for him?

Mile High Champ
07-22-2011, 02:13 PM
Why some people would make dupe accounts to impact a top 10 poll on PSD is beyond me. People really need to get a life.

SteBO
07-22-2011, 02:14 PM
Poll's been changed. Revote!!!!

Gibby23
07-22-2011, 02:14 PM
Poll's been changed. Revote!!!!

It won't let me vote.

Swashcuff
07-22-2011, 02:15 PM
I literally have no idea what you are talking about. You're coming off as an ultimate troll right now. Why don't you focus less on trolling, and more on celebrating your championship. You don't seem as happy as you should be.

He's really been trolling these threads.

LTBaByyy
07-22-2011, 02:15 PM
That is soooo dumb!! SteBo changed it!!!!!!!!!!

He shouldnt even be a Mod, Amare had dupe accounts

WE SHOULD REVOTE #2, if you want to have credibility

SteBO
07-22-2011, 02:16 PM
It should be mandatory that he replaces Pau with Amar'e. What kind of message is that sending if he doesn't.

Yeah. Don't worry though, I changed it. :)

tredigs
07-22-2011, 02:16 PM
Fair enough but I have always felt that the polls have maintained a high level of credibility as they issues have occurred in the past before.

Hah eh - well, if polls have clearly been won due to a poster (or non-posters) making duplicate accounts and running up the votes than any said credibility is simply due to peoples ignorance of that fact.

And while I'm at it, I think a better way to do the polls would be to have a select group of posters from different fanbases as the polling body. Think PSD round-table members - with another 25 or so additions. This would create a situation where the posters would both take the time to defend their positions, the size of a fanbase would not matter, and poll-tampering would be a non issue.

This is still fun and it's cool that everyone gets to participate, but once tampering becomes a big issue it essentially loses all credibility.

Swashcuff
07-22-2011, 02:16 PM
Why some people would make dupe accounts to impact a top 10 poll on PSD is beyond me. People really need to get a life.

:nod:

Mile High Champ
07-22-2011, 02:17 PM
Did Amare have 0 dupe accounts vote for him?

I did not see any and I looked through most of the user profiles of the people that voted for him.

SteBO
07-22-2011, 02:19 PM
Did Amare have 0 dupe accounts vote for him?

Yup. I didn't see any dupes vote for him. They all went to Pau. There quite a few over 6 dupes that voted in the last 24 hours. It's pathetic.

Swashcuff
07-22-2011, 02:20 PM
I did not see any and I looked through most of the user profiles of the people that voted for him.

Word of advice. You should go back to the #2 thread and put a disclaimer in the first and last posts for anyone looking back and thinking Pau got conned they'd see that he was unjustly voted #2 because the many dupes.

Mile High Champ
07-22-2011, 02:20 PM
Hah eh - well, if polls have clearly been won due to a poster (or non-posters) making duplicate accounts and running up the votes than any said credibility is simply due to peoples ignorance of that fact.

And while I'm at it, I think a better way to do the polls would be to have a select group of posters from different fanbases as the polling body. Think PSD round-table members - with another 25 or so additions. This would create a situation where the posters would both take the time to defend their positions, the size of a fanbase would not matter, and poll-tampering would be a non issue.

This is still fun and it's cool that everyone gets to participate, but once tampering becomes a big issue it essentially loses all credibility.

I understand your concern but we really have not had many issues to speak of. I am happy with the way things have gone. This is the 4th season these polls have happened and I think it gets more enjoyable and interesting as we go on.

Why make the vote just for the elite? Everyone should have the right to participate. PSD already has enough elitist groups, why add this to it?

Don't let the one issue bother you, I always try and go back and look through the users that voted for people when the vote is very tight..

All is good now.

SteBO
07-22-2011, 02:20 PM
What dupe accounts???? I saw only 2. Gasol won by 4!!!!!!

Stop giving into SteBo and Kashmir crying.

We would do the poll again if it is that major, your not supposed to change the winners like that

Amare was leading by over 20 votes last night, so you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Kashmir and I are both smart enough to know that there were way more than 2 dupes, so don't bother. Contribute to the thread please. Thanks.

Kashmir13579
07-22-2011, 02:21 PM
I did not see any and I looked through most of the user profiles of the people that voted for him.


Yeah. Don't worry though, I changed it. :)

Good job, guys. :)

Mile High Champ
07-22-2011, 02:22 PM
Word of advice. You should go back to the #2 thread and put a disclaimer in the first and last posts for anyone looking back and thinking Pau got conned they'd see that he was unjustly voted #2 because the many dupes.

Already done... :D

Mile High Champ
07-22-2011, 02:23 PM
I know changing Amare to number 2 was the right call but man does it make me sick. I would not even have the guy top 5 at this point after his last season. But whatever the fans have spoken.

SteBO
07-22-2011, 02:23 PM
I'm going Pau Gasol here.

tredigs
07-22-2011, 02:24 PM
I understand your concern but we really have not had many issues to speak of. I am happy with the way things have gone. This is the 4th season these polls have happened and I think it gets more enjoyable and interesting as we go on.

Why make the vote just for the elite? Everyone should have the right to participate. PSD already has enough elitist groups, why add this to it?

Don't let the one issue bother you, I always try and go back and look through the users that voted for people when the vote is very tight..

All is good now.

Yeah, I'm with ya dude. I'm simply speaking to the "credibility" aspect of it all.

I think the way you do it is the most fun, and on a site like this I think that's the #1 priority. Keep on keepin' on.

naps
07-22-2011, 02:25 PM
Yeah, MileHigh - go ahead and change that #2 to Amare if you want your threads to receive any credibility going forward.

It was very clearly manipulate by dupe accounts (the idiot didn't even bother to make it sneaky and simply added a period to the end of regular posters names for his duplicate accounts).

Edit: I see your last post, good job.

May be they thought adding just a period with familiar names will help them sneak through eyes of mods.

Kashmir13579
07-22-2011, 02:26 PM
Now that thats all out of the way.... I voted for the same player i voted for last time - Kevin Love. He's the best rebounder in the NBA, his 3 point shooting will help open up his offensive game and that of his teammates, and he's only going to get better. I think the stats would support him in this spot, as well.

Plus, i think now that the Twolves actually have a team around him, He will get the recognition he deserves in due-time. This guy is a class act and a hard worker. I have a tough time seeing him fail.

GoPacers33
07-22-2011, 02:26 PM
love

DoMeFavors
07-22-2011, 02:34 PM
what is this website turning into, the winner was Gasol but I guess it doesnt count because Amare was winning before. This is crazy that the poll clearly shows Gasol but you feel like you have to please people. This is terrible. I demand the head of PSD come to this forum and check this out. I am also reporting the mods responsible.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-22-2011, 02:36 PM
what is this website turning into, the winner was Gasol but I guess it doesnt count because Amare was winning before. This is crazy that the poll clearly shows Gasol but you feel like you have to please people. This is terrible. I demand the head of PSD come to this forum and check this out. I am also reporting the mods responsible.

There were a number of dupe accounts voting for Gasol.

naps
07-22-2011, 02:36 PM
Why does it show 6 people voted for him but the number says only 2?

tredigs
07-22-2011, 02:37 PM
what is this website turning into, the winner was Gasol but I guess it doesnt count because Amare was winning before. This is crazy that the poll clearly shows Gasol but you feel like you have to please people. This is terrible. I demand the head of PSD come to this forum and check this out. I am also reporting the mods responsible.

You're going to make an AWESOME hall cop in middle school.

In other news, read the thread dumbass.

nycericanguy
07-22-2011, 02:37 PM
Why does it show 6 people voted for him but the number says only 2?

4 people switched their votes when Gasol was added to the poll.

nycericanguy
07-22-2011, 02:38 PM
You're going to make an AWESOME hall cop in middle school.

In other news, read the thread dumbass.

I think we may know who was responsible for the 20+ dupes...lol

only someone really childish with way too much time on their hands would do that...hmm.. i wonder who...

SteBO
07-22-2011, 02:39 PM
That is soooo dumb!! SteBo changed it!!!!!!!!!!

He shouldnt even be a Mod, Amare had dupe accounts

WE SHOULD REVOTE #2, if you want to have credibility
I'll respond to this insult in the most politically correct way, and will not respond to you anymore than I already have since all you've been posting is baseless comments. Pau got all the dupe accts voting for him, not Amare. End of story. If you don't like it, don't post in these threads. That simple.

DoMeFavors
07-22-2011, 02:40 PM
I voted Gasol but if this was really the poll I would have voted Bosh, without Bosh I dont think LeBron and Wade get to finals. Bosh on Toronto was soo good every night he was a hard guard and is a great player. People dont think he is that good because of the good year he has in Miami where he hardly got the ball.

mightybosstone
07-22-2011, 02:41 PM
Gasol again, obviously, but I'm a little surprised Bosh isn't receiving more votes. It's close between the two of them, IMO.

Chacarron
07-22-2011, 02:43 PM
Pau Gasol for #2 PF.

DoMeFavors
07-22-2011, 02:45 PM
Dirk
Gasol
Bosh
Amare
Zbo
Griffin
Duncan
Love
Boozer
KG

Sportfan
07-22-2011, 02:47 PM
dbl post

Jetsguy
07-22-2011, 02:48 PM
I voted for Pau

Sportfan
07-22-2011, 02:48 PM
why no just skip this one since it #2 was a 2 man race? and was it dupes that ****ed the last poll up? i looked at the voters and i didn't notice any suspicious dupe names
Nothing suspicious about this guy at all?
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/member.php?u=180713

tredigs
07-22-2011, 02:48 PM
Nothing suspicious about this guy at all?
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/member.php?u=180713


Damnit, found my dupe.

alencp3
07-22-2011, 02:48 PM
John Walls Era voted for Griffin :speechless:
it must be some kind of a mistake :eyebrow:

Da Knicks
07-22-2011, 02:49 PM
Pau for sure!

Jetsguy
07-22-2011, 02:50 PM
what is this website turning into, the winner was Gasol but I guess it doesnt count because Amare was winning before. This is crazy that the poll clearly shows Gasol but you feel like you have to please people. This is terrible. I demand the head of PSD come to this forum and check this out. I am also reporting the mods responsible.

:laugh2:

douglas
07-22-2011, 02:55 PM
Pau Gasol

jimbobjarree
07-22-2011, 02:56 PM
Zachary

SteBO
07-22-2011, 02:56 PM
Damnit, found my dupe.

That was the first guy I saw

Rapsjaysleafs
07-22-2011, 03:01 PM
Just a quick one.
This is by far my Fav site. Its my home page.
I literally spend an hour or mroe a day reading things on here. I READ I do not always post. I started reading in 2007.

Lately however it is turning into one of the worst reads of the day. A thread about Cheerios somehow turns into a pissing contest between Kobe Lovers, Lakers Homers, Heat Bandwagon Fans and Knicks Fans. It is becoming ridiculous. It is so bad that people are now adding new accounts so their fav. player can be higher on the list.
Why would they do that? So they can argue their fav player is better.

In all honestly this list is bogus as well. Everyone is a Homer. Did I Vote Bosh into the top 5 last year? Yes. Would I this year? No.
Same goes a few years back with Bargnani being ahead of Bynum. I did not vote for Bargs, I am just saying that everyone is a Homer including Raptors fans so please do not think I am trying to point fingers at everyone but myself and my fellow Toronto fans.

All that I am saying is that this needs to stop somehow and get back to productive talking and good debates.

You guys dont even know how many times I have taken what people on here say, and gone to work with it and talked about it there with everyone at the office.
This can be a great site

Lets get back to that !

naps
07-22-2011, 03:02 PM
Bosh because he was the most consistent throughout the regular season and playoffs. His defense has improved drastically. He's young, will be in his prime next season, less injury prone, will have a year of experience to adjust with Wade and LeBron. Not a tough choice at all.

Kashmir13579
07-22-2011, 03:04 PM
Just a quick one.
This is by far my Fav site. Its my home page.
I literally spend an hour or mroe a day reading things on here. I READ I do not always post. I started reading in 2007.

Lately however it is turning into one of the worst reads of the day. A thread about Cheerios somehow turns into a pissing contest between Kobe Lovers, Lakers Homers, Heat Bandwagon Fans and Knicks Fans. It is becoming ridiculous. It is so bad that people are now adding new accounts so their fav. player can be higher on the list.
Why would they do that? So they can argue their fav player is better.

In all honestly this list is bogus as well. Everyone is a Homer. Did I Vote Bosh into the top 5 last year? Yes. Would I this year? No.
Same goes a few years back with Bargnani being ahead of Bynum. I did not vote for Bargs, I am just saying that everyone is a Homer including Raptors fans so please do not think I am trying to point fingers at everyone but myself and my fellow Toronto fans.

All that I am saying is that this needs to stop somehow and get back to productive talking and good debates.

You guys dont even know how many times I have taken what people on here say, and gone to work with it and talked about it there with everyone at the office.
This can be a great site

Lets get back to that !

Wow, Really good post and i couldn't agree more.

jimbobjarree
07-22-2011, 03:04 PM
Just a quick one.
This is by far my Fav site. Its my home page.
I literally spend an hour or mroe a day reading things on here. I READ I do not always post. I started reading in 2007.

Lately however it is turning into one of the worst reads of the day. A thread about Cheerios somehow turns into a pissing contest between Kobe Lovers, Lakers Homers, Heat Bandwagon Fans and Knicks Fans. It is becoming ridiculous. It is so bad that people are now adding new accounts so their fav. player can be higher on the list.
Why would they do that? So they can argue their fav player is better.

In all honestly this list is bogus as well. Everyone is a Homer. Did I Vote Bosh into the top 5 last year? Yes. Would I this year? No.
Same goes a few years back with Bargnani being ahead of Bynum. I did not vote for Bargs, I am just saying that everyone is a Homer including Raptors fans so please do not think I am trying to point fingers at everyone but myself and my fellow Toronto fans.

All that I am saying is that this needs to stop somehow and get back to productive talking and good debates.

You guys dont even know how many times I have taken what people on here say, and gone to work with it and talked about it there with everyone at the office.
This can be a great site

Lets get back to that !

make this guy president of this forum

Kashmir13579
07-22-2011, 03:05 PM
I was about to drop a Kevin Love spirit bomb, but i think i'll continue to load up my ammo until he actually has a shot at winning one of these. (Poll 4 or 5, i'd say)

ABOMB_56
07-22-2011, 03:06 PM
I voted for the #2 PF in the league who somehow wasn't voted (legitimately anyway) as the #2 PF. Pau should of won the last poll, Bosh should of won this poll, and Amare should of won the next poll. But, as we all know homer fans usually dictate the flow of these votes.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-22-2011, 03:08 PM
I was about to drop a Kevin Love spirit bomb, but i think i'll continue to load up my ammo until he actually has a shot at winning one of these. (Poll 4 or 5, i'd say)

Kevin Love led the NBA in Wins Produced last year, so you could make a case that he's the best player in the league.

Edit: Since no one probably gets my dig, ignore it lol.

MiamiWadeCounty
07-22-2011, 03:13 PM
Kevin Love led the NBA in Wins Produced last year, so you could make a case that he's the best player in the league.

Edit: Since no one probably gets my dig, ignore it lol.

Ok...

PatsSoxKnicks
07-22-2011, 03:15 PM
You can make a case but it wont be a very good one...

I wasn't making a case. Like I said in the edit, it's a dig that no one probably gets. Well Chronz would and maybe a few others.

The implication is that Wins Produced is a terrible stat.

Kashmir13579
07-22-2011, 03:17 PM
Kevin Love led the NBA in Wins Produced last year, so you could make a case that he's the best player in the league.

Edit: Since no one probably gets my dig, ignore it lol.

Wins Produced? That must be faulty stats LOL. But i tend to agree with WS/48 and Kevin Love is not lacking there. I honestly think his rebounding and 3pt shooting gives him the nod, here. He isn't a great defender, but neither is Bosh or Gasol. Offensively, Love took on a heavier workload and was every bit as efficient as either of those guys.

I think one of the only arguments against Love was that he wasn't on a winning team. (which to me, makes those WSs even more significant)

Swashcuff
07-22-2011, 03:19 PM
I wasn't making a case. Like I said in the edit, it's a dig that no one probably gets. Well Chronz would and maybe a few others.

The implication is that Wins Produced is a terrible stat.

Kevin Love FTW! :D

Kashmir13579
07-22-2011, 03:22 PM
I wasn't making a case. Like I said in the edit, it's a dig that no one probably gets. Well Chronz would and maybe a few others.

The implication is that Wins Produced is a terrible stat.

haha, i got it. But only because you have told me in the past that Wins Produced is a terrible stat.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-22-2011, 03:23 PM
Wins Produced? That must be faulty stats LOL. But i tend to agree with WS/48 and Kevin Love is not lacking there. I honestly think his rebounding and 3pt shooting gives him the nod, here. He isn't a great defender, but neither is Bosh or Gasol. Offensively, Love took on a heavier workload and was every bit as efficient as either of those guys.

I think one of the only arguments against Love was that he wasn't on a winning team. (which to me, makes those WSs even more significant)

Yeah, it is a faulty stat. It was a dig at Berri, who created the Wins Produced stat. Long story short, no one respects him in the APBR community.

As for Love, I'm not sure that he's better than Gasol right now. But I am positive by the end of next year, he will be. He definitely had a better year than Gasol but for me personally, I need to see someone replicate that kind of productivity for another year. The other person who I think takes a big leap is Blake Griffin. I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that within 1-2 years, these guys are battling for the #1 PF in the game.

His defense isn't that great, or so I've heard. I'd like to get the synergy numbers on him. Maybe I'll do that later and post them.

Swashcuff
07-22-2011, 03:25 PM
Wins Produced? That must be faulty stats LOL. But i tend to agree with WS/48 and Kevin Love is not lacking there. I honestly think his rebounding and 3pt shooting gives him the nod, here. He isn't a great defender, but neither is Bosh or Gasol. Offensively, Love took on a heavier workload and was every bit as efficient as either of those guys.

I think one of the only arguments against Love was that he wasn't on a winning team. (which to me, makes those WSs even more significant)

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18611255&postcount=138

That was my argument for Pau in the last thread.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18253659&postcount=1

That was patsSOXknicks post in the stats forum that sheds a little light on Wins Produced. As he later told me he views it as a bogus stat. After all Kris Humphries is in the top 10 and Kevin Love is at #1 one. They both happen to be the best in the league in terms of TRB% among PFs. Somewhere along the line they just don't add up and the stat create obviously values rebounding too much.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-22-2011, 03:25 PM
Kevin Love FTW! :D

I shouldn't have forgotten Kris Humphries either lol

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-22-2011, 03:26 PM
I'm going with Gasol here. That was an interesting story on the dupes. Nice job SteBo and MHC.

ChiSox219
07-22-2011, 03:28 PM
Gasol is better than Amare

PatsSoxKnicks
07-22-2011, 03:31 PM
haha, i got it. But only because you have told me in the past that Wins Produced is a terrible stat.


http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18611255&postcount=138

That was my argument for Pau in the last thread.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18253659&postcount=1

That was patsSOXknicks post in the stats forum that sheds a little light on Wins Produced. As he later told me he views it as a bogus stat. After all Kris Humphries is in the top 10 and Kevin Love is at #1 one. They both happen to be the best in the league in terms of TRB% among PFs. Somewhere along the line they just don't add up and the stat create obviously values rebounding too much.

Yeah, wasn't sure. If you're curious, I'll try to find that baskeball-ref article where they were ripping Berri in the comments section. Also, have seen it on the APBR board.

Kashmir13579
07-22-2011, 03:33 PM
Yeah, wasn't sure. If you're curious, I'll try to find that baskeball-ref article where they were ripping Berri in the comments section. Also, have seen it on the APBR board.

Message me the link if you find it. I am curious.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-22-2011, 03:39 PM
Message me the link if you find it. I am curious.

Actually, I just realized I don't even remember the article I was reading. I just remember the comments section lol. But I'll try to find it or something.

Bruno
07-22-2011, 03:40 PM
Although his post-season performance against NOH and DAL was truly pathetic and nearly laughable, Gasol still has to be top three.

I wanted to vote for Love, Griffin, Bosh and Randolph in front of him, but I won't. He's already a dropped a spot from last year, which is punishment enough :guns:

mightybosstone
07-22-2011, 03:46 PM
Some of you guys are taking these votes WAY too seriously. Yeah, in my book it would be 2. Pau, 3. Bosh, 4. Amare, but I certainly won't lose any sleep over this. At the end of the day, they're all extremely talented players, and I think you can make a strong case for probably four or five guys at the No. 2 and No. 3 spots.

If the worst thing that happens to you today is that a player you voted for didn't win an online poll on a forum website, then I think you'll be okay. Quit complaining...

greg_ory_2005
07-22-2011, 03:56 PM
black players>white guys

so i'll take bosh :)

tredigs
07-22-2011, 03:59 PM
black players>white guys

so i'll take bosh :)

As clearly proved in the NBA finals.

BlitzBlud4
07-22-2011, 04:01 PM
Pau Gasol

roshan3ai
07-22-2011, 04:02 PM
Voted Pau last poll, so I'll vote for him here too

BlitzBlud4
07-22-2011, 04:03 PM
As clearly proved in the NBA finals.

:confused: Huh, What do you mean!?? Dirk won Finals MVP and Mavs won the title. I don't think people should compare players based on race to justify which is the better player. Just my opinion though.

tredigs
07-22-2011, 04:07 PM
:confused: Huh, What do you mean!?? Dirk won Finals MVP and Mavs won the title. I don't think people should compare players based on race to justify which is the better player. Just my opinion though.

And I thought I laid out the sarcasm pretty thick.

Geargo Wallace
07-22-2011, 04:07 PM
I feel like KG's effect on the game, even at his old age, is undervalued.

BlitzBlud4
07-22-2011, 04:14 PM
And I thought I laid out the sarcasm pretty thick.

I apologize. I wasn't aware that you were being sarcastic at all. It's hard to spot sarcasm in the written word without any indications IMO. Usually when people are being sarcastic or not being fully truthful, they tend to use emiticons, bold/italics the words or state they are being sarcastic.

MacFitz92
07-22-2011, 04:19 PM
Why would someone create a dupe to vote for their player on a sports forum? Get a life...

Jewelz0376
07-22-2011, 04:20 PM
efff Pau..

I got Zbo...

and with the way Pau played in the 2nd half I would vote BoshSpice ahead of him too...probably LA as well

tredigs
07-22-2011, 04:23 PM
I apologize. I wasn't aware that you were being sarcastic at all. It's hard to spot sarcasm in the written word without any indications IMO. Usually when people are being sarcastic or not being fully truthful, they tend to use emiticons, bold/italics the words or state they are being sarcastic.

I guess I have dry e humor.


I really do need to invent that sarcasm font already though.

Eagles4Lyfe
07-22-2011, 04:25 PM
Why would someone create a dupe to vote for their player on a sports forum? Get a life...

Tell me about it, we were doing a NBA mock and some guys who weren't even in the game or had a team would constantly come in and cause a ruckus:confused:.
Some people i tell you :facepalm:

BlitzBlud4
07-22-2011, 04:26 PM
I guess I have dry e humor.


I really do need to invent that sarcasm font already though.

Fair enough.
Yeah, that would be helpful.

Master Mind
07-22-2011, 05:02 PM
Lamarcus Aldrigde for me

Cano4prez
07-22-2011, 05:05 PM
Lamarcus Aldrigde for me

Wut......

nycericanguy
07-22-2011, 05:06 PM
I asked this in another forum, couldn't really get an answer so i'll ask again here.

We talk about efficiency on here alot. I look at a guy like Gallo & Billups, who did not shoot very high percentages but yet are considered efficient.

So if Michael Beasely for instance goes 8-20 from the field, does not attempt a FT and scores 16 points.

And Gallo goes 4-12 from the field, and 8-8 from the line and scores 16 points.

Is Beasely then extremely in-efficient and Gallo very efficient even though they both scored 16 points on 20 possessions? Would they both have the same efficiency rating?

Avenged
07-22-2011, 05:29 PM
Pau here.

I like Amare but he's exactly the same player and puts up around the same numbers as he did when he was in Phoenix last year, and suddenly he goes to NY and is the #2 PF in the game? It's no secret that big markets benefit star players (as it did with Pau) but that's one big jump for Amare.

nycericanguy
07-22-2011, 05:35 PM
Pau here.

I like Amare but he's exactly the same player and puts up around the same numbers as he did when he was in Phoenix last year, and suddenly he goes to NY and is the #2 PF in the game? It's no secret that big markets benefit star players (as it did with Pau) but that's one big jump for Amare.

He didn't make that much of a jump,

Duncan declined alot last year and Bosh became a #3 option.

The only one he really surpassed is Gasol, and IMO Gasol has become overrated. You would never see Amare disappear in the playoffs like Gasol did... NEVER.

Swashcuff
07-22-2011, 05:40 PM
He didn't make that much of a jump,

Duncan declined alot last year and Bosh became a #3 option.

The only one he really surpassed is Gasol, and IMO Gasol has become overrated. You would never see Amare disappear in the playoffs like Gasol did... NEVER.

What happened in games 2 and 3 of the Boston series?

This past post season Amar'e was even worst than Pau.

Will 2 BE
07-22-2011, 05:44 PM
Amare didnt play game 2 he was injured, and he had back problems for the rest of that series

Swashcuff
07-22-2011, 05:47 PM
Amare didnt play game 2 he was injured, and he had back problems for the rest of that series

actually he did and he managed to shoot 2-9 from the field for 4 points in 18 minutes.

Will 2 BE
07-22-2011, 05:51 PM
I think Zach Randolph had outplayed Gasol this year. He was a bigger asset to his team, and carried them farther than anyone could have expected. Just another former Knick player playing at an allstar level after he leaves the team.......:sigh:

ManRam
07-22-2011, 05:59 PM
A vote for any besides Pau is a crazy vote.

nycericanguy
07-22-2011, 06:06 PM
What happened in games 2 and 3 of the Boston series?

This past post season Amar'e was even worst than Pau.

Wow come on, thats not even fair, thats a low blow.

We all know Amare was hurt after game 1. He played but that was not Amare out there. IMO he should not have played. You know that he still has not fully recovered? Thats how bad his back was.

Game 1 he completely dominated Garnett and was willing NY to victory until Billups went down and then the two infamous bad calls against NY.

For his career he has been a monster in the postseason. '04'05 was one of the best performances in a postseason in recent history. 30ppg 11rpg 2bpg, followed the next year with a 25ppg 13rpg, 2bpg postseason.

You can say what you want about Amare, but in the postseason he comes to play.

BTW since u know so much about advanced stats, can u answer my post on the previous page? I'm curious.

ewmania
07-22-2011, 06:11 PM
That is soooo dumb!! SteBo changed it!!!!!!!!!!

He shouldnt even be a Mod, Amare had dupe accounts

WE SHOULD REVOTE #2, if you want to have credibility

lol dude amare was up by like 30 votes then all of a sudden loses just like that

quit trolling and respect the situation

but anyway... i vote for gasol on this one, eventho he had a bad playoffs he's still one of the most dominate 4's in the game, can also play the 5 at times

Kashmir13579
07-22-2011, 06:15 PM
What happened in games 2 and 3 of the Boston series?

This past post season Amar'e was even worst than Pau.

He got injured. Thats always unfortunate. Did you watch game 1? Amar'e was unstoppable. I'm not saying he would've kept up that pace if he stayed healthy; but Amar'e has always performed really well in the post season. (as does Pau so i'm not quite sure what happened this year)

EDIT: My point was, there was no "post season Amar'e" this year. He played one healthy game and it was a wrap after that. He injured his back in warmups before game 2.

Hostetler
07-22-2011, 06:17 PM
Pau

Kashmir13579
07-22-2011, 06:19 PM
Wow come on, thats not even fair, thats a low blow.

We all know Amare was hurt after game 1. He played but that was not Amare out there. IMO he should not have played. You know that he still has not fully recovered? Thats how bad his back was.



I agree. We weren't winning that series, anyway. He's worth too much to us to risk it. If Amar'e suffered a career ending injury in game 3, that sets the knicks back, like, 7 years..... Plus once he got injured he was doing us more harm than good, imo.

Jewelz0376
07-22-2011, 06:21 PM
Pau here.

I like Amare but he's exactly the same player and puts up around the same numbers as he did when he was in Phoenix last year, and suddenly he goes to NY and is the #2 PF in the game? It's no secret that big markets benefit star players (as it did with Pau) but that's one big jump for Amare.

I think maybe Amare playing with Nash plays a part in it... I think some assumed a big part of Amare's success was playing with Nash, but now that they see he doesn't need Nash to produce the same numbers they give him more credit...

(obviously tho the Knicks fans help too lol)

Swashcuff
07-22-2011, 06:27 PM
Wow come on, thats not even fair, thats a low blow.

We all know Amare was hurt after game 1. He played but that was not Amare out there. IMO he should not have played. You know that he still has not fully recovered? Thats how bad his back was.

Game 1 he completely dominated Garnett and was willing NY to victory until Billups went down and then the two infamous bad calls against NY.

For his career he has been a monster in the postseason. '04'05 was one of the best performances in a postseason in recent history. 30ppg 11rpg 2bpg, followed the next year with a 25ppg 13rpg, 2bpg postseason.

You can say what you want about Amare, but in the postseason he comes to play.

BTW since u know so much about advanced stats, can u answer my post on the previous page? I'm curious.


He got injured. Thats always unfortunate. Did you watch game 1? Amar'e was unstoppable. I'm not saying he would've kept up that pace if he stayed healthy; but Amar'e has always performed really well in the post season. (as does Pau so i'm not quite sure what happened this year)

EDIT: My point was, there was no "post season Amar'e" this year. He played one healthy game and it was a wrap after that. He injured his back in warmups before game 2.

My reason for making that post was because of the fact that he said that Amar'e would NEVER perform so badly. Yes he was injured and it was exactly why he performed the way he did. It happened but there was a reason behind it. Personally I think something was seriously affecting Pau last post season and he just wasn't able to gt his head in the game.

nycericanguy
07-22-2011, 06:30 PM
My reason for making that post was because of the fact that he said that Amar'e would NEVER perform so badly. Yes he was injured and it was exactly why he performed the way he did. It happened but there was a reason behind it. Personally I think something was seriously affecting Pau last post season and he just wasn't able to gt his head in the game.

I think you took that a little too literally, of course if a guy is injured he isn't going to perform... but a healthy Amare has never played poorly in the playoffs, far from it.

Kashmir13579
07-22-2011, 06:31 PM
My reason for making that post was because of the fact that he said that Amar'e would NEVER perform so badly. Yes he was injured and it was exactly why he performed the way he did. It happened but there was a reason behind it. Personally I think something was seriously affecting Pau last post season and he just wasn't able to gt his head in the game.

i think its highly unlikely that a healthy Amar'e would see post-season regression to Pau's extent. Thats just my feeling on it. Then again, nobody thought Pau would underperform like that.

Gibby23
07-22-2011, 06:36 PM
I think you took that a little too literally, of course if a guy is injured he isn't going to perform... but a healthy Amare has never played poorly in the playoffs, far from it.

But the thing with Amare is that he isn't healthy all the time. He has missed 3 post seasons all together due to him not being healthy and last year he played but wasn't healthy. That is 4 post seasons down to injury.

Baller1
07-22-2011, 07:04 PM
Pau's a *****, but it's gotta be him here.

SportsFanatic10
07-22-2011, 07:07 PM
its pau quite easily for me. should be 2nd.

Bruno
07-22-2011, 07:36 PM
Pau's a *****, but it's gotta be him here.

lol. x2.

Gasol needs to bic his head and grow a ridiculous beard. I want Leonidas-Gasol for 2011-2012. Lion-mane!

nycericanguy
07-22-2011, 08:19 PM
But the thing with Amare is that he isn't healthy all the time. He has missed 3 post seasons all together due to him not being healthy and last year he played but wasn't healthy. That is 4 post seasons down to injury.

are we talking about how healthy he is or how he performs?

Because last I checked we weren't talking about missed games, but rather performance. Amare has had his injury woes no doubt, I think we alllll know that, you keep bringing it up but we all know that already. If he didn't have injury concerns every team would have been after him in the off season.

PocketKings
07-22-2011, 08:29 PM
lol. x2.

Gasol needs to bic his head and grow a ridiculous beard. I want Leonidas-Gasol for 2011-2012. Lion-mane!

lmao.

this would be epic.

Master Mind
07-22-2011, 08:38 PM
Wut......

Lamarcus is severely underrated...I'm certain he will make his case for top 3 PF next season. You might not think it now but wait and see...And you're probably wondering, why not Bosh? I'm not a huge Bosh fan, he's on our team and all and I root for him but he hasn't really impressed me, especially for what we're paying him.

Catfish1314
07-22-2011, 08:45 PM
Lamarcus is severely underrated...I'm certain he will make his case for top 3 PF next season. You might not think it now but wait and see...

Statistically, I don't know how people keep suggesting he's underrated. There's no denying he did a great job leading the Blazers to the playoffs last year but 22 and 9 in literally 40 minutes a game is ok, but not on par with what other PFs in the league did last year.

Although a nearly 2:1 assist-to-turnover ratio for someone who had the ball as much he did (25.7 USG%) is very impressive.

Swashcuff
07-22-2011, 08:47 PM
Statistically, I don't know how people keep suggesting he's underrated. There's no denying he did a great job leading the Blazers to the playoffs last year but 22 and 9 in literally 40 minutes a game is ok, but not on par with what other PFs in the league did last year.

Although a nearly 2:1 assist-to-turnover ratio for someone who had the ball as much he did (25.7 USG%) is very impressive.

People actually started saying that he's the Blazers true #1 and not a healthy Roy, he's a top 10 player and one of the few real franchise players in the league. If you ask me he surely wasn't underrated.

sventhedog
07-23-2011, 08:00 AM
gasol choked this season. but he's in LA so that makes him the popular choice. aldrige had a great season. he deserves credit.

ewmania
07-23-2011, 09:14 AM
next vote im stuck between zach and le'marcus

Sportfan
07-23-2011, 11:51 AM
KG ftw

tyfreaks brotha
07-23-2011, 12:05 PM
And all the ****ing dumbass dupes are voting for Gasol. Wow just ****ing wow. Well either that or dumbass homer Laker fans. This is bs Bosh should easily win

PJAF
07-23-2011, 12:11 PM
This is an easy one. Zach Randolph hands down.

roshan3ai
07-23-2011, 12:11 PM
And all the ****ing dumbass dupes are voting for Gasol. Wow just ****ing wow. Well either that or dumbass homer Laker fans. This is bs Bosh should easily win

What the hell are you talking about? Pau should and will win. I don't see "all of these dupes" that you're referring to

Sadds The Gr8
07-23-2011, 12:25 PM
And all the ****ing dumbass dupes are voting for Gasol. Wow just ****ing wow. Well either that or dumbass homer Laker fans. This is bs Bosh should easily win

Pau is better than Rupaul.

Swashcuff
07-23-2011, 01:42 PM
I asked this in another forum, couldn't really get an answer so i'll ask again here.

We talk about efficiency on here alot. I look at a guy like Gallo & Billups, who did not shoot very high percentages but yet are considered efficient.

So if Michael Beasely for instance goes 8-20 from the field, does not attempt a FT and scores 16 points.

And Gallo goes 4-12 from the field, and 8-8 from the line and scores 16 points.

Is Beasely then extremely in-efficient and Gallo very efficient even though they both scored 16 points on 20 possessions? Would they both have the same efficiency rating?

I couldn't answer this question so I asked patsSOXknicks and this was his response.


Originally Posted By patsSOXknicks
They actually do not have the same number of possessions. The TS% would be higher for Gallo. Now I'm going to assume that all 8 FTs were FTs that were attacking the basket? Because sometimes, you shoot FTs after illegal defenses, technicals, etc. Thats where the .44 comes in TS%. However, if all 8 FTs came from a player making a move to the basket and being fouled, thats 8/2 = 4 possessions. 4 possessions from the FT line + 12 shot attempts gets you 16 possessions. That's for Gallo. Beasley obviously scored 16 points on 20 possessions so from an efficiency stand point, Gallo would be more efficient if you included his FTs.

Now if some of his FT attempts were from and 1s, flagrants, technicals etc., then he'd actually have even less possessions, making him even more efficient.

Hopefully this helps.

nycericanguy
07-23-2011, 02:09 PM
I couldn't answer this question so I asked patsSOXknicks and this was his response.



Hopefully this helps.

Thanks, thats actually kind of what I thought. So basically guys that get to the line and shoot alot of 3's are considered more efficient and have higher TS%'s.

The reason I even bought this up was because people were calling Beasely "inefficient" and Gallo apparently is one of the more efficient scorers despite his low FG% and somewhat average 3pg%.

I also bought this up because I watched Billups go 3-10 and shoot horribly with some horrible shot attempts in NY many nights, it was frustrating. Yet he gets to the line alot so he is considered extremely efficient.

Kind of makes me rethink what being "efficient" even really means. Beasely for instance is a career 46% shooter.

Gallo is my favorite player, but I question how efficient he really is, because to me if he gets fouled, is that really better than Beasely who won't get fouled as much, but will hit a much higher % of his FG attempts?

Now from Pats explanation they would not have the same # of possessions, but in reality they did, because they each came down and shot 20 times, yet the better shooter would have the lower TS%.

Also a guy like Billups for instance who is a great FT shooter, benefits from the fact that NY will put the ball in his hands late in the 4th to get intentionally fouled in close games. Those freebies can add up over the course of a season and really make CB seem more efficient than he really is.

EDIT: sorry just realized Gallo would have 16 possessions under my previous scenario.

So I'll re work the scenario,

Beasely goes 9-19 & 2-2 FT

Gallo goes 2-10 & 16-20 FT.

so Beasely shoots the ball much better, scores the same amount of points per possesion, yet Gallo would be considered more efficient because he got most of his points at the line... at least thats what I'm understanding.

THE GIPPER
07-23-2011, 02:09 PM
wow amare 2nd? blake, bosh, pau are all better imo.

THE GIPPER
07-23-2011, 02:12 PM
^ thats a very interesting conversation about efficiency btw

Swashcuff
07-23-2011, 03:06 PM
Thanks, thats actually kind of what I thought. So basically guys that get to the line and shoot alot of 3's are considered more efficient and have higher TS%'s.

The reason I even bought this up was because people were calling Beasely "inefficient" and Gallo apparently is one of the more efficient scorers despite his low FG% and somewhat average 3pg%.

I also bought this up because I watched Billups go 3-10 and shoot horribly with some horrible shot attempts in NY many nights, it was frustrating. Yet he gets to the line alot so he is considered extremely efficient.

Kind of makes me rethink what being "efficient" even really means. Beasely for instance is a career 46% shooter.

Gallo is my favorite player, but I question how efficient he really is, because to me if he gets fouled, is that really better than Beasely who won't get fouled as much, but will hit a much higher % of his FG attempts?

Now from Pats explanation they would not have the same # of possessions, but in reality they did, because they each came down and shot 20 times, yet the better shooter would have the lower TS%.

Also a guy like Billups for instance who is a great FT shooter, benefits from the fact that NY will put the ball in his hands late in the 4th to get intentionally fouled in close games. Those freebies can add up over the course of a season and really make CB seem more efficient than he really is.

EDIT: sorry just realized Gallo would have 16 possessions under my previous scenario.

So I'll re work the scenario,

Beasely goes 9-19 & 2-2 FT

Gallo goes 2-10 & 16-20 FT.

so Beasely shoots the ball much better, scores the same amount of points per possesion, yet Gallo would be considered more efficient because he got most of his points at the line... at least thats what I'm understanding.

To this I point out the following that will help shed some more light on it for you.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=517705&highlight=statistic

That was a thread based on TS% vs FG% in terms of measuring efficiency and the OP used the same 2 examples you gave.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18598274&postcount=14

I know that it's a bit lengthy but that was my response to another poster who viewed FG% as a better measure of efficiency than TS%. I gave him the example of Yao vs Shaq in terms of efficiency. Proving that had Yao and Shaq attempt the same amount of FGs and FTs with their %s intact Yao would actually be viewed as a better scorer than Shaq.

Master Mind
07-23-2011, 03:45 PM
wow amare 2nd? blake, bosh, pau are all better imo.

No, no, and no...

Tony_Starks
07-23-2011, 05:53 PM
1-Dirk
2-Gasol
3-Zach Randolph

But head to head if they were defending each other I'd roll with Zach, stronger and better/more consistent rebounder.

Mr. Baller
07-23-2011, 10:57 PM
No, no, and no...

No, yes, and yes. Amare = the definition of overrated

Knicks21
07-23-2011, 11:20 PM
What happened in games 2 and 3 of the Boston series?

This past post season Amar'e was even worst than Pau.

How do you even come to that result? Amare did not play therefore played worse than Gasol? Huh?

im ur fatha
07-23-2011, 11:33 PM
Pau

Swashcuff
07-23-2011, 11:36 PM
How do you even come to that result? Amare did not play therefore played worse than Gasol? Huh?

If you read through the thread you would see I explained myself and as I had to point out to the other Knick fan with short term memory Amar'e did indeed play all for games. He played hurt.

VCaintdead17
07-23-2011, 11:40 PM
Why is this still open?

meloman1592
07-23-2011, 11:45 PM
Its pau @ #3.....amare's better imo

meloman1592
07-23-2011, 11:49 PM
btw amare never got this kinda hate in phoenix

Cano4prez
07-24-2011, 12:51 AM
No, yes, and yes. Amare = the definition of overrated

This, the thread should be closed by now

Catfish1314
07-24-2011, 01:24 AM
btw amare never got this kinda hate in phoenix

He never got this kind of love in Phoenix either. That's the trade off in bolting for a major market. More people love you but more people hate you as well.

Pau really is better than Stoudemire (the numbers and his more complete game support this), but that's moot by now.

Swashcuff
07-24-2011, 09:21 AM
btw amare never got this kinda hate in phoenix

I strongly urge you to go back to older threads and read the kinds of things that was being said about Stoudemire. They were MUCH worst that what has been said in the last 2 threads.

SteBO
07-24-2011, 09:26 AM
He never got this kind of love in Phoenix either. That's the trade off in bolting for a major market. More people love you but more people hate you as well.

Pau really is better than Stoudemire (the numbers and his more complete game support this), but that's moot by now.
This, but it's okay. We both know the real truth ;)


I strongly urge you to go back to older threads and read the kinds of things that was being said about Stoudemire. They were MUCH worst that what has been said in the last 2 threads.
Are you referring to when Amare was in Phoenix? If so, then I agree with you completely. I wasn't a PSD member then, but when I was viewing them, all I saw was people downgrading Amare and praising Steve Nash. This was a constant. Also, I wouldn't consider this "hate". That word is very overused.

Swashcuff
07-24-2011, 09:39 AM
Are you referring to when Amare was in Phoenix? If so, then I agree with you completely. I wasn't a PSD member then, but when I was viewing them, all I saw was people downgrading Amare and praising Steve Nash. This was a constant. Also, I wouldn't consider this "hate". That word is very overused.

Eureka! I too was a reader and I saw it time and time again where Amar'e was chastised for living off of Nash, not playing D, not being committed on the glass, being immature, being a product of an uptempo system, not having a polished offensive repertoire, selfish etc etc. IMO now Amar'e faces less hate as a member of the Knicks due to the fact that he proved many of the naysayers wrong.

Some however are blind to these things because they too were guilty of it (best recent example is the same Knicks fans who called Carmelo Anthony "Carmela" and said he'd never make it as a Knick are now saying nothing bad was said about him in Denver) when the player was not on their team. When the player joins their team however they forget all the bad things they said and begin pointing fingers and looking for excuses.

wjmoffatt
07-24-2011, 09:50 AM
1A. Dirk
1B. Amare
3. Aldridge
4. Love
5. Gasol
6. Scula
7. Griffen
8. Bosh
9. Garnett