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Heat4life06
07-22-2011, 11:41 AM
?

Chronz
07-22-2011, 11:43 AM
Unseld
Cowens
AI
Rose

NBAfan4life
07-22-2011, 11:46 AM
Honestly I feel you could pick any of the players that won it and did not win a championship ever since they have been picking the best player on the best team.

A.I is the first guy I thought of though when I read your question.

THE GIPPER
07-22-2011, 11:50 AM
ai or rose. they are basically the same player

AIMelo=KillaDUO
07-22-2011, 11:58 AM
ai or rose. they are basically the same player

lol DRose couldn't wipe the dirt off of AI's questions.

Heat4life06
07-22-2011, 12:04 PM
Steve Nash. 15 points and 11 assists is nice, but MVP numbers?

PlezPlayDKnicks
07-22-2011, 12:07 PM
Impact on team means a lot. Ai lead a team of scrubs to the finals. A 5'11 guard who was extremely small in frame wreaked havoc on the league. Volume scorer or not he was deserving. He was a warrior and changed the game. He blitzed the league and changed how many people played basketball. Thats the only downside.

ghettosean
07-22-2011, 12:08 PM
Iverson with no doubt!!!

A ball hog who always had to be the leading scorer in the league and stayed on the floor until he gets his 30 points... definately not my MVP candidate!

ghettosean
07-22-2011, 12:10 PM
Steve Nash. 15 points and 11 assists is nice, but MVP numbers?
Dude you must be ill or something because one of the years the suns not only made the playoffs but were high in the standings without Amare for most of the season and it was obviously all due to Steve Nash and getting his team going.

If MVP is all about #'s then AI is definately a top 10 MVP candadite with all the stats he got... LOL

JordansBulls
07-22-2011, 12:10 PM
Steve Nash in 2005 with ease. He averaged 15 ppg and 11 apg and didn't led his team in either PER or Win Shares.

sep11ie
07-22-2011, 12:10 PM
Nash, hands down.

Hellcrooner
07-22-2011, 12:10 PM
iverson.

unseld.

maybe mcadoo....but maybe im being biased because his career went to far down to the role player status from then on.

Gators123
07-22-2011, 12:12 PM
Rose and Iverson

Heat4life06
07-22-2011, 12:12 PM
Iverson with no doubt!!!

A ball hog who always had to be the leading scorer in the league and stayed on the floor until he gets his 30 points... definately not my MVP candidate!

yea I agree, it seems like all the voters looked at was points per game. the guy's fg% was horrible for an mvp, he routinely chucked up 30 shots in a game, and he was horribly inefficient

Shmontaine
07-22-2011, 12:12 PM
Season↓ Player↓ Position↓ Nationality Team↓
1955–56 Bob Pettit* Forward United States St. Louis Hawks
1956–57 Bob Cousy* Guard United States Boston Celtics
1957–58 Bill Russell* Center United States Boston Celtics (2)
1958–59 Bob Pettit* (2) Forward United States St. Louis Hawks (2)
1959–60 Wilt Chamberlain* Center United States Philadelphia Warriors
1960–61 Bill Russell* (2) Center United States Boston Celtics (3)
1961–62 Bill Russell* (3) Center United States Boston Celtics (4)
1962–63 Bill Russell* (4) Center United States Boston Celtics (5)
1963–64 Oscar Robertson* Guard United States Cincinnati Royals
1964–65 Bill Russell* (5) Center United States Boston Celtics (6)
1965–66 Wilt Chamberlain* (2) Center United States Philadelphia 76ers
1966–67 Wilt Chamberlain* (3) Center United States Philadelphia 76ers (2)
1967–68 Wilt Chamberlain* (4) Center United States Philadelphia 76ers (3)
1968–69 Wes Unseld* Center/Forward United States Baltimore Bullets
1969–70 Willis Reed* Center/Forward United States New York Knicks
1970–71 Lew Alcindor*[b] Center United States Milwaukee Bucks
1971–72 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*[b] (2) Center United States Milwaukee Bucks (2)
1972–73 Dave Cowens* Center United States Boston Celtics (7)
1973–74 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*[b] (3) Center United States Milwaukee Bucks (3)
1974–75 Bob McAdoo* Forward/Center United States Buffalo Braves
1975–76 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*[b] (4) Center United States Los Angeles Lakers
1976–77 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*[b] (5) Center United States Los Angeles Lakers (2)
1977–78 Bill Walton* Center United States Portland Trail Blazers
1978–79 Moses Malone* Center/Forward United States Houston Rockets
1979–80 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*[b] (6) Center United States Los Angeles Lakers (3)
1980–81 Julius Erving* Forward United States Philadelphia 76ers (4)
1981–82 Moses Malone* (2) Center/Forward United States Houston Rockets (2)
1982–83 Moses Malone* (3) Center/Forward United States Philadelphia 76ers (5)
1983–84 Larry Bird* Forward United States Boston Celtics (8)
1984–85 Larry Bird* (2) Forward United States Boston Celtics (9)
1985–86 Larry Bird* (3) Forward United States Boston Celtics (10)
1986–87 Magic Johnson* Guard United States Los Angeles Lakers (4)
1987–88 Michael Jordan* Guard United States Chicago Bulls
1988–89 Magic Johnson* (2) Guard United States Los Angeles Lakers (5)
1989–90 Magic Johnson* (3) Guard United States Los Angeles Lakers (6)
1990–91 Michael Jordan* (2) Guard United States Chicago Bulls (2)
1991–92 Michael Jordan* (3) Guard United States Chicago Bulls (3)
1992–93 Charles Barkley* Forward United States Phoenix Suns
1993–94 Hakeem Olajuwon* Center United States[c] Houston Rockets (3)
1994–95 David Robinson* Center United States San Antonio Spurs
1995–96 Michael Jordan* (4) Guard United States Chicago Bulls (4)
1996–97 Karl Malone* Forward United States Utah Jazz
1997–98 Michael Jordan* (5) Guard United States Chicago Bulls (5)
1998–99 Karl Malone* (2) Forward United States Utah Jazz (2)
1999–00 Shaquille O'Neal Center United States Los Angeles Lakers (7)
2000–01 Allen Iverson Guard United States Philadelphia 76ers (6)
2001–02 Tim Duncan^ Forward/Center United States[d] San Antonio Spurs (2)
2002–03 Tim Duncan^ (2) Forward/Center United States[d] San Antonio Spurs (3)
2003–04 Kevin Garnett^ Forward United States Minnesota Timberwolves
2004–05 Steve Nash^ Guard Canada Phoenix Suns (2)
2005–06 Steve Nash^ (2) Guard Canada Phoenix Suns (3)
2006–07 Dirk Nowitzki^ Forward Germany Dallas Mavericks
2007–08 Kobe Bryant^ Guard United States Los Angeles Lakers (8)
2008–09 LeBron James^ Forward United States Cleveland Cavaliers
2009–10 LeBron James^ (2) Forward United States Cleveland Cavaliers (2)
2010–11 Derrick Rose^ Guard United States Chicago Bulls (6)

naps
07-22-2011, 12:16 PM
Rose.

juno10
07-22-2011, 12:16 PM
Honestly I feel you could pick any of the players that won it and did not win a championship ever since they have been picking the best player on the best team.

A.I is the first guy I thought of though when I read your question.

mvp is a regular season award why should that matter.

ghettosean
07-22-2011, 12:20 PM
mvp is a regular season award why should that matter.
lol.... This!!!

Sly Guy
07-22-2011, 12:21 PM
Steve Nash. 15 points and 11 assists is nice, but MVP numbers?

if you put faith solely in numbers.

But you have to look at those Suns team without him on the floor. Watching them was pathetic, they had no flow to their offense and would routinely give up big leads. It's not so much his numbers as it was his effect on the team as a floor general every night. That year he was most valuable to his team. Thing is, the award is so rarely given to the player who means the most for his team [or dwight howard would get it every year], and because of that judging criteria it makes nash's award that year rather dubious.

ghettosean
07-22-2011, 12:22 PM
if you put faith solely in numbers.

But you have to look at those Suns team without him on the floor. Watching them was pathetic, they had no flow to their offense and would routinely give up big leads. It's not so much his numbers as it was his effect on the team as a floor general every night. That year he was most valuable to his team. Thing is, the award is so rarely given to the player who means the most for his team [or dwight howard would get it every year], and because of that judging criteria it makes nash's award that year rather dubious.
ALSO THIS!!!

To many # and stat people now a days and no one actually reflects on the team and games played during the season.

Nash was very deserving of his MVP titles.

Heat4life06
07-22-2011, 12:23 PM
if you put faith solely in numbers.

But you have to look at those Suns team without him on the floor. Watching them was pathetic, they had no flow to their offense and would routinely give up big leads. It's not so much his numbers as it was his effect on the team as a floor general every night. That year he was most valuable to his team. Thing is, the award is so rarely given to the player who means the most for his team [or dwight howard would get it every year], and because of that judging criteria it makes nash's award that year rather dubious.

yea thats the thing. the meaning of MVP changes every year. one year's it's "best player on the best team", then it's "most important player to their team", then it's "best player", then it's "veteran who as deserved it, life time achievement"

Heat4life06
07-22-2011, 12:26 PM
ALSO THIS!!!

To many # and stat people now a days and no one actually reflects on the team and games played during the season.

Nash was very deserving of his MVP titles.

there were definitely more deserving players, kobe, shaq etc. Shaq averaged 23 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, and 2 blocks on 60% shooting and improved the Heat by 17 wins

Chucky Woods
07-22-2011, 12:27 PM
Rose.

Kashmir13579
07-22-2011, 12:28 PM
I wish Nash got more MVPs. :shrug:

Sly Guy
07-22-2011, 12:28 PM
yea thats the thing. the meaning of MVP changes every year. one year's it's "best player on the best team", then it's "most important player to their team", then it's "best player", then it's "veteran who as deserved it, life time achievement"


lol, love the kobe shot.

And you're right, it does change every year, but then again, that's why every award/all star appearance/etc is a farce in my eyes. Just win baby.

ChitownSports16
07-22-2011, 12:31 PM
Rose for sure! This is NOT even a question... ;)

Heat4life06
07-22-2011, 12:31 PM
lol, love the kobe shot.

And you're right, it does change every year, but then again, that's why every award/all star appearance/etc is a farce in my eyes. Just win baby.

yea alot of the awards some years are jokes. the voters hardly ever get it right. like Kobe on the all defensive first team last season haha

TheRunKiller
07-22-2011, 12:38 PM
Lebron without a doubt...that stat padding regular season whore.

BlitzBlud4
07-22-2011, 12:51 PM
worst MVP selctions in recent memory, in my opinion:
Iverson in 01' (should have went to Shaq or Duncan)
Nash in 05' (should have went to Shaq)
Kobe in 08' (should have went to Chris Paul)
Rosein 11' (should have went to Dwight or LeBron)

Slimsim
07-22-2011, 12:51 PM
NAsh

ChitownSports16
07-22-2011, 12:55 PM
Can someone please define the word "MVP" to me? Sorry Im a little slow this afternoon.

LOOTERX9
07-22-2011, 01:23 PM
Nash's 2nd MVP is easily the worst i've seen.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
07-22-2011, 01:29 PM
Iverson with no doubt!!!

A ball hog who always had to be the leading scorer in the league and stayed on the floor until he gets his 30 points... definately not my MVP candidate!

lol :facepalm:

DeyAce
07-22-2011, 01:43 PM
lol @ the haters saying Rose. Nash's 2nd was clearly the worst

GoPacers33
07-22-2011, 01:46 PM
nash or rose

BlitzBlud4
07-22-2011, 01:48 PM
lol @ the haters saying Rose. Nash's 2nd was clearly the worst

I agree that he shouldn't have won neither MVP. But his first MVP (05') was a worse selection than his second. At least, his MVP in 06', his numbers improved and the Suns still had a good record without Amar'e.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
07-22-2011, 01:59 PM
Ai easily

The Flash
07-22-2011, 02:04 PM
Rose

Cowboys4Life619
07-22-2011, 02:12 PM
worst MVP selctions in recent memory, in my opinion:
Iverson in 01' (should have went to Shaq or Duncan)
Nash in 05' (should have went to Shaq)
Kobe in 08' (should have went to Chris Paul)
Rosein 11' (should have went to Dwight or LeBron)


Fully agree with all...but they had to give one to KOBE!! Blows my mind that Shaq only had one....that's just insane! Last year was a joke too...should've gone to Howard...just a big media hype machine with Rose...:mad:

ghettosean
07-22-2011, 02:20 PM
Fully agree with all...but they had to give one to KOBE!! Blows my mind that Shaq only had one....that's just insane! Last year was a joke too...should've gone to Howard...just a big media hype machine with Rose...:mad:
I hate to admit it only because I like D-Rose but Dwight Howard definately should have been the MVP last year... Without him the Magic are less than nothing!!!

TheRunKiller
07-22-2011, 02:23 PM
Rose

Wade. oh wait, nevermind

Hugbees
07-22-2011, 02:25 PM
Rose is the undisputed champ in this category. Don't worry the MVP is a joke anyways.

king4day
07-22-2011, 02:29 PM
Steve Nash. 15 points and 11 assists is nice, but MVP numbers?

Not sure how many times we need to defend him.

If we're looking at those numbers you mentioned, the assists alone equal 22-33pts a game. So you could say he contributed to over 30-40ppg.

He turned a 30win team to a 60 win team.

The following year he took a team with 0 stars and won the division and 2 wins from the finals.

How was he not worthy?

If we're talking 1 on 1 with Shaq or Kobe..yea he loses both. But when Nash won MVP, he won it in the true meaning of the term. Not the best player in the league, but the one who was truly most valuable.

king4day
07-22-2011, 02:34 PM
Nash's 2nd MVP is easily the worst i've seen.


lol @ the haters saying Rose. Nash's 2nd was clearly the worst


How was it the worst?

LosDoyers1
07-22-2011, 02:39 PM
Steve Nash in 2005 with ease. He averaged 15 ppg and 11 apg and didn't led his team in either PER or Win Shares.

I agree. Nash deserved it the year before (IMO), but him winning two MVP awards in a row wasn't justifiable at all no matter which way you look at it.

sofa_king_great
07-22-2011, 02:49 PM
Nash deserved it the first time but the second time was bull. That should have went to Kobe IMO. Also, as a D-Rose fan, I have to admit the award was not deserved by him this year, and should have went to Lebron or Dwight

WadeKobe
07-22-2011, 02:50 PM
Impact on team means a lot. Ai lead a team of scrubs to the finals. A 5'11 guard who was extremely small in frame wreaked havoc on the league. Volume scorer or not he was deserving. He was a warrior and changed the game. He blitzed the league and changed how many people played basketball. Thats the only downside.

Team of scrubs? Not even close. :facepalm:

WadeKobe
07-22-2011, 02:55 PM
Nash deserved it the first time but the second time was bull. That should have went to Kobe IMO. Also, as a D-Rose fan, I have to admit the award was not deserved by him this year, and should have went to Lebron or Dwight

:clap:

I actually loved Rose until this year, just because I got sick of all my Bulls fan friends overrating him, and the media being on his dick. The guy played great, had a very good season, and proved he'll be a superstar in this league.

However, he was statistically underwhelming in relation to his competition, and the idea that "where would they be without him?" is nonsense, because his +/- was absolutely abysmal compared to all the other candidates. That Bulls team was in 1st place because of Thibs and the defense they played - and Rose was actually a weakness. Without Rose to save them by scoring in crunch time, that team still ends up 3rd in the East, maybe even 2nd.

Jamiecballer
07-22-2011, 02:57 PM
i'd have to do some research but Steve Nash definitely came to mind.

WadeKobe
07-22-2011, 02:58 PM
worst MVP selctions in recent memory, in my opinion:
Iverson in 01' (should have went to Shaq or Duncan)
Nash in 05' (should have went to Shaq)
Kobe in 08' (should have went to Chris Paul)
Rosein 11' (should have went to Dwight or LeBron)

This!!

LosDoyers1
07-22-2011, 03:00 PM
Can someone please define the word "MVP" to me? Sorry Im a little slow this afternoon.

Valid point. The term is so ambiguous these days.

netsgiantsyanks
07-22-2011, 03:01 PM
Iverson with no doubt!!!

A ball hog who always had to be the leading scorer in the league and stayed on the floor until he gets his 30 points... definately not my MVP candidate!

nice sig, super mother****ing villain

Gambeezy
07-22-2011, 03:02 PM
The guy who shot 6.3% in the ECF when LeBron was guarding him.

netsgiantsyanks
07-22-2011, 03:03 PM
Can someone please define the word "MVP" to me? Sorry Im a little slow this afternoon.

more vagina please?? i had to :shrug:

Raph12
07-22-2011, 03:10 PM
Unseld
Cowens
AI
Rose

/thread

miller74
07-22-2011, 03:11 PM
Steve Nash in 2005 with ease. He averaged 15 ppg and 11 apg and didn't led his team in either PER or Win Shares.

There is more to sports than numbers, watch the games

justinnum1
07-22-2011, 03:20 PM
Rose, considering Chicago's team defense was the biggest reason for their success.

mdm692
07-22-2011, 03:23 PM
without nash suns wouldnt even dream of a 60+ and a 50+ Win seasons let alone back to back trips to the wcf

Geargo Wallace
07-22-2011, 03:26 PM
I like Rose, but I'd have to say he was the worst MVP that I can ever remember in my short lifetime.

sofa_king_great
07-22-2011, 03:33 PM
:clap:

I actually loved Rose until this year, just because I got sick of all my Bulls fan friends overrating him, and the media being on his dick. The guy played great, had a very good season, and proved he'll be a superstar in this league.

However, he was statistically underwhelming in relation to his competition, and the idea that "where would they be without him?" is nonsense, because his +/- was absolutely abysmal compared to all the other candidates. That Bulls team was in 1st place because of Thibs and the defense they played - and Rose was actually a weakness. Without Rose to save them by scoring in crunch time, that team still ends up 3rd in the East, maybe even 2nd.


well he's still my second favourite player... i just dont think he's at the same level as lebron or kobe defensively yet. but i think he was the main reasons as to why the bulls had the best record because of his improvement this year, but he still has a lot to improve because he still didn't have the impact of lebron or dwight this year.

SMH!
07-22-2011, 03:38 PM
Idc how much you guys love nash, but it was Nash, kobe had an amazing season that year

Bruno
07-22-2011, 03:47 PM
lol, every nomination is coming from the past decade.

I like Rose a lot, but I think we can all agree that we haven't seen his best, and this his 2011 MVP was more circumstantial than anything else.

I'd agree with Chronz here.

joeym
07-22-2011, 03:49 PM
Season↓ Player↓ Position↓ Nationality Team↓
1955–56 Bob Pettit* Forward United States St. Louis Hawks
1956–57 Bob Cousy* Guard United States Boston Celtics
1957–58 Bill Russell* Center United States Boston Celtics (2)
1958–59 Bob Pettit* (2) Forward United States St. Louis Hawks (2)
1959–60 Wilt Chamberlain* Center United States Philadelphia Warriors
1960–61 Bill Russell* (2) Center United States Boston Celtics (3)
1961–62 Bill Russell* (3) Center United States Boston Celtics (4)
1962–63 Bill Russell* (4) Center United States Boston Celtics (5)
1963–64 Oscar Robertson* Guard United States Cincinnati Royals
1964–65 Bill Russell* (5) Center United States Boston Celtics (6)
1965–66 Wilt Chamberlain* (2) Center United States Philadelphia 76ers
1966–67 Wilt Chamberlain* (3) Center United States Philadelphia 76ers (2)
1967–68 Wilt Chamberlain* (4) Center United States Philadelphia 76ers (3)
1968–69 Wes Unseld* Center/Forward United States Baltimore Bullets
1969–70 Willis Reed* Center/Forward United States New York Knicks
1970–71 Lew Alcindor*[b] Center United States Milwaukee Bucks
1971–72 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*[b] (2) Center United States Milwaukee Bucks (2)
1972–73 Dave Cowens* Center United States Boston Celtics (7)
1973–74 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*[b] (3) Center United States Milwaukee Bucks (3)
1974–75 Bob McAdoo* Forward/Center United States Buffalo Braves
1975–76 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*[b] (4) Center United States Los Angeles Lakers
1976–77 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*[b] (5) Center United States Los Angeles Lakers (2)
1977–78 Bill Walton* Center United States Portland Trail Blazers
1978–79 Moses Malone* Center/Forward United States Houston Rockets
1979–80 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*[b] (6) Center United States Los Angeles Lakers (3)
1980–81 Julius Erving* Forward United States Philadelphia 76ers (4)
1981–82 Moses Malone* (2) Center/Forward United States Houston Rockets (2)
1982–83 Moses Malone* (3) Center/Forward United States Philadelphia 76ers (5)
1983–84 Larry Bird* Forward United States Boston Celtics (8)
1984–85 Larry Bird* (2) Forward United States Boston Celtics (9)
1985–86 Larry Bird* (3) Forward United States Boston Celtics (10)
1986–87 Magic Johnson* Guard United States Los Angeles Lakers (4)
1987–88 Michael Jordan* Guard United States Chicago Bulls
1988–89 Magic Johnson* (2) Guard United States Los Angeles Lakers (5)
1989–90 Magic Johnson* (3) Guard United States Los Angeles Lakers (6)
1990–91 Michael Jordan* (2) Guard United States Chicago Bulls (2)
1991–92 Michael Jordan* (3) Guard United States Chicago Bulls (3)
1992–93 Charles Barkley* Forward United States Phoenix Suns
1993–94 Hakeem Olajuwon* Center United States[c] Houston Rockets (3)
1994–95 David Robinson* Center United States San Antonio Spurs
1995–96 Michael Jordan* (4) Guard United States Chicago Bulls (4)
1996–97 Karl Malone* Forward United States Utah Jazz
1997–98 Michael Jordan* (5) Guard United States Chicago Bulls (5)
1998–99 Karl Malone* (2) Forward United States Utah Jazz (2)
1999–00 Shaquille O'Neal Center United States Los Angeles Lakers (7)
2000–01 Allen Iverson Guard United States Philadelphia 76ers (6)
2001–02 Tim Duncan^ Forward/Center United States[d] San Antonio Spurs (2)
2002–03 Tim Duncan^ (2) Forward/Center United States[d] San Antonio Spurs (3)
2003–04 Kevin Garnett^ Forward United States Minnesota Timberwolves
2004–05 Steve Nash^ Guard Canada Phoenix Suns (2)
2005–06 Steve Nash^ (2) Guard Canada Phoenix Suns (3)
2006–07 Dirk Nowitzki^ Forward Germany Dallas Mavericks
2007–08 Kobe Bryant^ Guard United States Los Angeles Lakers (8)
2008–09 LeBron James^ Forward United States Cleveland Cavaliers
2009–10 LeBron James^ (2) Forward United States Cleveland Cavaliers (2)
2010–11 Derrick Rose^ Guard United States Chicago Bulls (6)

It's funny, looking at this list, no one is old enough to remember if any of the mvp's from prior to 1990 had weaker mvp season than iverson or nash.....also the fact that the name of the country for each player is listed a little strange considering there are only two non-Americans that have ever won.....

Angelus™
07-22-2011, 03:52 PM
Nash, easily

Cool007
07-22-2011, 04:10 PM
IMO, all the MVPs were well deserved at the time they were given. They all earned it.

There is no such thing as the "WORST MVP".

How is Rose not MVP or Worst? Let's debate if you disagree.

How was Nash not MVP those years? Let's debate if you disagree.

How was Iverson not MVP that year? Let's debate if you disagree.

Those guys were MVPs because they took their to the best record in their Conference or overall - even though no-one expected that and without them, their teams would struggle big time.

ChitownSports16
07-22-2011, 04:17 PM
IMO, all the MVPs were well deserved at the time they were given. They all earned it.

There is no such thing as the "WORST MVP".

How is Rose not MVP or Worst? Let's debate if you disagree.

How was Nash not MVP those years? Let's debate if you disagree.

How was Iverson not MVP that year? Let's debate if you disagree.

Those guys were MVPs because they took their to the best record in their Conference or overall - even though no-one expected that and without them, their teams would struggle big time.

Are you really gonna try to explain? This fourm is full of haters bro. Sorry but, you're just wasting you time.

ChitownSports16
07-22-2011, 04:18 PM
more vagina please?? i had to :shrug:

:rimshot:

Shmontaine
07-22-2011, 04:20 PM
The guy who shot 6.3% in the ECF when LeBron was guarding him.

the stat is similar to lbj's fg% with the game tied or miami trailing by one with less than 15 seconds left in the game...

btw, i mean overblown...

BlitzBlud4
07-22-2011, 04:20 PM
IMO, all the MVPs were well deserved at the time they were given. They all earned it.

There is no such thing as the "WORST MVP".

How is Rose not MVP or Worst? Let's debate if you disagree.

How was Nash not MVP those years? Let's debate if you disagree.

How was Iverson not MVP that year? Let's debate if you disagree.

Those guys were MVPs because they took their to the best record in their Conference or overall - even though no-one expected that and without them, their teams would struggle big time.

I think many people will have different opinons and reasonings on why they feel a speficic player didn't deserve MVP, although many people will consider one or numerous specific reasons that can be similar to others. For me, the players won won MVP had good seasons but other players deserved MVP over them. Nothing personal or hatred.

HouRealCoach
07-22-2011, 04:52 PM
Most valuable player award isn't about stats... Phx was a lottery team and then when Nash got there they had the best record in the NBA

How is that not MVP worthy? Let me guess.. Kobe should have won it?

HouRealCoach
07-22-2011, 04:56 PM
and if Derrick Rose(2011), Steve Nash(2005&2006), and AI(2001) shouldnt have won it... Tell me who then?

Cool007
07-22-2011, 05:00 PM
and if Derrick Rose(2011), Steve Nash(2005&2006), and AI(2001) shouldnt have won it... Tell me who then?

Somebody who had better "Stats" I guess.

That's how these forums roll.

AIRMAR72
07-22-2011, 05:57 PM
kobe bryant and derrick rose

Bruno
07-22-2011, 05:59 PM
kobe bryant

Care to support such a claim? Have any facts or stats you'd like to share?

Hustlenomics
07-22-2011, 06:15 PM
Impact on team means a lot. Ai lead a team of scrubs to the finals. A 5'11 guard who was extremely small in frame wreaked havoc on the league. Volume scorer or not he was deserving. He was a warrior and changed the game. He blitzed the league and changed how many people played basketball. Thats the only downside.

+ 1,000 anyone saying Iverson must be brain dead

HouRealCoach
07-22-2011, 06:20 PM
Care to support such a claim? Have any facts or stats you'd like to share?

Wasn't the worst but Chris Paul should have won it....

Chronz
07-22-2011, 06:29 PM
Impact on team means a lot. Ai lead a team of scrubs to the finals. A 5'11 guard who was extremely small in frame wreaked havoc on the league. Volume scorer or not he was deserving. He was a warrior and changed the game. He blitzed the league and changed how many people played basketball. Thats the only downside.

News flash, all the MVP's have been deserving in some way. This doesnt help your argument at all.

theheatles
07-22-2011, 06:40 PM
nash beating out kobe when kobe averaged 35 is the worst for me

Cowboys4Life619
07-22-2011, 06:48 PM
I think it's quite simple to define MVP. Who is the most valuable to their team? If you pluck that player from the line up, where would that team be? I know that's all hypothetical, but that's the "value" they bring to the team. This is why a lot of the time, they choose the "leader" of the team with the best record (at least they have been for the last few years). The arguement from me last year with Rose, is that if you took Rose off the Chicago roster and took Dwight off the Orlando roster, which team would suffer more (again hypothetical)? I think Orlando by a landslide!!

The arguement for Steve Nash the 2005 season (and I could be mistaken), is that he was actually hurt for 15 games or so, and when he was out, Phoenix had a horrible record, whereas Shaq missed a few games and Miami was still able to put some wins together. Not sure if my memory is hazy on that, but that's what I remember.

The meaning is different with whoever you ask...that's why, I think they should have an OPY award, along with the MVP. The media drives MVPs about 20 games in, and that's usually who wins. Last year, Rose said in an interview, "Why can't I be MVP?" -- all of a sudden he's the front runner!

In conclusion, it's a stupid award...lol...means nothing...especially in the playoffs...where the real MVPs show up!

Bruno
07-22-2011, 06:48 PM
Wasn't the worst but Chris Paul should have won it....

I was under the impression that we were being ask who is the worst player to win MVP, not which year was the biggest robbery.

But, I agree.

Chronz
07-22-2011, 07:07 PM
I think many people will have different opinons and reasonings on why they feel a speficic player didn't deserve MVP, although many people will consider one or numerous specific reasons that can be similar to others. For me, the players won won MVP had good seasons but other players deserved MVP over them. Nothing personal or hatred.

Its not just about whether the players were most deserving or not, its about how they stack up against each other. All of the MVP's deserved it

ivylleague1'
07-22-2011, 07:23 PM
+ 1,000 anyone saying Iverson must be brain dead


I do not know you, but, you are definitely a better analyst than Chronz and Hellcrooner. (Two anti - Iverson imbe.....) Iverson is one of the best MVP ever !!! The year he won the MVP, he led the entire NBA and the world in scoring, and in steals. He was #1 in steals, and #1 in scoring in the same season. Incredible feat !!!! . Ride on Brother !!! You know your stuff !!!

Bruno
07-22-2011, 07:26 PM
Don't worry the MVP is a joke anyways.

I hate to agree with this but when future generations look back and see that Shaq, Bryant, Wade combine for two MVPs they might come to that conclusion as well. NBA MVP is too political to put so much weight into, in regards to individual/individual comparisons. At least in the post-Jordan era.

LakersA's49ers
07-22-2011, 07:46 PM
nash having more mvps than kobe is so sad

Minimal
07-22-2011, 07:53 PM
nash having more mvps than kobe is so sad
no, Adam Morrison having more rings than LeBron is so sad.

On topic: AI and Rose

chong2204
07-22-2011, 08:00 PM
Heres my top five...


1. Jimmy Chitwood
2.Jackie Moon
3.Jesus Shuttlesworth
4.Kyle Lee Watson
5.Sidney Deane/ Billy Hoyle

KnicksorBust
07-22-2011, 08:11 PM
Worst Player to Ever win an MVP: Wes Unseld

To say Rose at this point is premature. The guy's just a baby in comparison to the all-time greats.

JordansBulls
07-22-2011, 08:22 PM
There is more to sports than numbers, watch the games

I did and his teammate averaged 37 ppg on Prime Tim Duncan in the WCF.

smith&wesson
07-22-2011, 08:29 PM
haters.

how do you guys hate on a guy thats not even in the league any more... iverson was the man. considering the crap teams he played with in his prime its amaizing he was even able to take them to the finals. smh

Cal827
07-22-2011, 08:31 PM
no, Adam Morrison having more rings than LeBron is so sad.

On topic: AI and Rose

:laugh2:

I think Nash over Kobe is the worst... Kobe miraculously dragged a team of scrubs and Lamar Odom into the playoffs, losing in 7 to the Suns... but look at the rest of the roster... they had to rely on greats such as,

Kwame Brown
An Old Aaron Mckie
Mevedenko
A Rookie Bynum

:facepalm: lol

evadatam5150
07-22-2011, 09:30 PM
Steve Nash in 2005 with ease. He averaged 15 ppg and 11 apg and didn't led his team in either PER or Win Shares.

I think Nash is a no brainer..

evadatam5150
07-22-2011, 09:40 PM
Most valuable player award isn't about stats... Phx was a lottery team and then when Nash got there they had the best record in the NBA

How is that not MVP worthy? Let me guess.. Kobe should have won it?

Let's be honest here.. The MVP isn't even about the Most Valuable Player anymore... It hasn't been about that for a while.. It's a popularity contest and an extension of High School clique..

Bulls_fan90
07-22-2011, 10:01 PM
Lebrick. MVP is an award for winners not losers.

YourTeamSucks
07-22-2011, 10:12 PM
Did anyone watch the suns 05-06' it was a terrible team that without him and already without amare and q rich and joe johnson and most of the other players from the year before he still lead them to be a great team can't believe ppl put so much on numbers and for ppl making an argument for lbj should of got it last year instead of rose is ridiculous lets see how well he would of played without his two other superstars

pd7631
07-22-2011, 10:16 PM
ALSO THIS!!!

To many # and stat people now a days and no one actually reflects on the team and games played during the season.

Nash was very deserving of his MVP titles.

Are you ****ing serious dude? You use this to credit Nash's MVP but fail to acknowledge the fact that AI led the Sixers to the best record in the East, and before Theo Ratliff's injury and subsequent Mutombo trade, the Sixers were the best team in the NBA. And if going to the Finals isn't validation of the fact that he was so insanely deserving of the MVP, then I don't know what is.

Nash and Dirk are a couple of bad MVP's off the top of my head. Obviously Dirk redeemed himself this year, but his team got bounced in the first round to the 8th seed the year he won MVP. And Nash has never been to the Finals, so while his numbers are very good (not MVP caliber), he did not validate his MVP's come playoff time.

Ugh, this is so irritating reading all the people say that AI is the "worst MVP", that I couldn't even read past the 2nd page before stopping myself and saying something. Somebody please tell me why AI was the "worst MVP"? Oh, that's right.....he shoots the ball too much, his ego is too big, he has too many tattoos, he's a thug, blah blah blah.....Basically, there is no GOOD reason to say that he was the "worst MVP".

Raps18-19 Champ
07-22-2011, 10:18 PM
Lebron without a doubt...that stat padding regular season whore.

Lebron had 2 of the better efficient seasons in NBA history when he won both awards.

juno10
07-22-2011, 10:24 PM
Lebrick. MVP is an award for winners not losers.

why did derrick rose get it than:confused:

MJ-BULLS
07-22-2011, 10:32 PM
ai or rose. they are basically the same player

Explain please.

Bulls_fan90
07-22-2011, 10:33 PM
why did derrick rose get it than:confused:

3rd year player buddy. lebrick was in his 6th and 7th year in the league when he won MVP.

Duncan = Donkey
07-22-2011, 10:35 PM
Americans and their stats.

Tony_Starks
07-22-2011, 11:01 PM
Having the "worst" mvp is like having the "worst" lingerie model, or worst luxury car. Sure some are better than others but they are all great, so why hate?

NBAfan4life
07-22-2011, 11:29 PM
nash having more mvps than kobe is so sad

Nash having as many MVP's as Shaq and Kobe combined is what is sad.

You can make a case for Kobe deserving 3 or 4 at the very most. Shaq has at least 8 years where you can make a strong case for him being MVP.

chong2204
07-23-2011, 12:26 AM
Nash having as many MVP's as Shaq and Kobe combined is what is sad.

You can make a case for Kobe deserving 3 or 4 at the very most. Shaq has at least 8 years where you can make a strong case for him being MVP.

this this this this this this

The regular season MVP in my opinion is so overrated...It is based on a popularity contest on the last 2 months of the season...In my honest opinion, the Finals MVPs are what players should be measured by...:cheers:

Chronz
07-23-2011, 12:46 AM
Somebody please tell me why AI was the "worst MVP"?

Because the other MVP winners had a better case

itsripcity32
07-23-2011, 12:58 AM
rose, aka choker cant hit 3s lol

pd7631
07-23-2011, 02:23 AM
Because the other MVP winners had a better case

Thanks for the elementary level response

TheRunKiller
07-23-2011, 03:00 AM
rose, aka choker cant hit 3s lol

poor brandon knight he's going to get destroyed by drose until the day he retires...its aight keep hating on drose.

Hellcrooner
07-23-2011, 03:08 AM
Americans and their stats.

Thats why they hate "soccer"

No stats at all, you gotta actually watch the games.
And even worse, any comparision between players will always be subjective :speechless:

and ot make it worse there are many differnet titles to win out there instead of just ONE, so how can you measure success?:cry:

:D

TheRunKiller
07-23-2011, 03:11 AM
^ wait, they don't have stats in soccer?

Hellcrooner
07-23-2011, 03:14 AM
^ wait, they don't have stats in soccer?

goals scored / goals received.

thats it.

tredigs
07-23-2011, 03:42 AM
goals scored / goals received.

thats it.

Well, obviously this is not true. You're leaving out even one of the basic primary statistics in assists.

Also, for keepers - blocked shots/save%.

There are also massive steps being taken to improve advanced stats for soccer - including an overall ranking of all top footballers in the Castrol Rankings http://www.castrolfootball.com/rankings/about/

Pass synergy between teams and particular teammates are also documented in major matches now (including past world cups), and the results are damn interesting and top clubs are being known to use them in evaluating potential prospect signings.

As quantifiable or objective as a sport like baseball? Of course not. But the statistics are there.

Also, a big reason why Americans are not huge soccer fans is because we have such a rich history of many different sports - and much of that has to do with A) our geographical isolation from the soccer havens in Europe/South America, and our wealth as a nation (affording virtually any kid who wants to play the capability of good courts to play basketball, fields/equipment to play football, ice rinks for hockey, etc). Soccer is a sport where you can be dirt poor and still enjoy (which is a great thing), but here in America that simply has not been an issue, and kids choose accordingly.

Doesn't help that the pretty boy/flopping ways of soccer icons like C. Ronaldo could not be further from the American ideals of what sport should be about - and plenty of people shy away from the sport due to its largely negative image in that sense.

Anyway, Iverson.

millerandco
07-23-2011, 05:06 AM
how can people say a.i

he took one of the worst teams in the league to the nba finals and won game 1 against the lakers.

please. he used to be great. dont forget that

stlbest5in2013
07-23-2011, 06:49 AM
anyone who says rose an AI are nuts. mvp is not the best player in the league.

its the most valuable, thats all it is, and all it ever will be.

MVP not that hard to misunderstand.

not shocking that chronz has his list with rose an AI in it.

he thinks games are won with nothing but stats, and not on the court. he also thinks awards should be based off of individual numbers not how they affect the game at all.

MTar786
07-23-2011, 07:12 AM
easily derrick rose followed by nash's first mvp

i would give allen iverson at second or third.. but he took his team to the finals AND beat the UNDEFEATED lakers in the 1st game away from home.


rose is like a poor mans allen iverson

MTar786
07-23-2011, 07:15 AM
anyone who says rose an AI are nuts. mvp is not the best player in the league.

its the most valuable, thats all it is, and all it ever will be.

MVP not that hard to misunderstand.

not shocking that chronz has his list with rose an AI in it.

he thinks games are won with nothing but stats, and not on the court. he also thinks awards should be based off of individual numbers not how they affect the game at all.

agreed with everything you just said.. But come on dude. you gotta admit.. rose was the weakest mvp ever. (player wise) i dont care about stats either.

sventhedog
07-23-2011, 07:55 AM
iverson hands down. all his stats is because he had the ball 90% of the time. the reason they reached the finals was because of the weak eastern conference.

he dribbles for 23 secs then decides whether to shoot or to pass (oops, teamate has no choice= instant assist)

Muttman73
07-23-2011, 08:04 AM
LeBron hands down, all the talent in the world, no heart, no guts...no rings

chi-townlove1
07-23-2011, 10:09 AM
and if Derrick Rose(2011), Steve Nash(2005&2006), and AI(2001) shouldnt have won it... Tell me who then?


Somebody who had better "Stats" I guess.

That's how these forums roll.

Totally agree with both of those. If those guys shouldn't have won it then who should have? honestly all three of those guys were deserving in their years. D-Rose specifically i'll comment on because there are so many haters. MVP is not about just stats, yet its always a failure to try and teach the idiots on this forum that because Dwight or Lebron had bigger numbers, doesnt necessarily mean they should have won MVP. These threads are just awful bait threads for people to hate on guys like Rose, who's MVP came just a year ago and is still fresh in their minds.

effen5
07-23-2011, 10:31 AM
rose, aka choker cant hit 3s lol

ya you mad

I remember when Pistons fans said Rose was only good in his rookie year because of Ben Gordon.....

Yup.

kastrow
07-23-2011, 10:40 AM
I dont understand why everyones sayin rose . The kid is 21 . Rookie of the year , the reason why the bulls have gone back to the playoffs , he puts time in the gym , doesnt make excuses instead puts most of the blame on himself day in and day out , he took a team that had no booz and noah last year gor significant amount of time and made everyone on that bulls team better . Does he take too many shots ? Well when your starting sg is named bogans , and both your pf and c are below average during the season , and your sf playin 40+ minutes a night , I dont blame thibs or rose for that matter . You ask me there really isnt no worse mvp . all the mvps were chosen because of how they influenced their team , carried them , and the type of impact they made on that team amongst all the great players durin the era . Oh and Stats dont matter at the end of the day if you aint winnin a got damn thing .. Just ask barkley , stockton , malone n em

NBA-GMaster
07-23-2011, 11:17 AM
Nash of 05-06

LongWayFromHome
07-23-2011, 12:13 PM
Did none of these people watch Rose play in the regular season? He single handedly beat teams over and over again and was very clutch.

OBV he's not the MVP of the playoffs. But it is a REGULAR SEASON MVP.

If you make a statement like (Rose 11, Nash 05, AI in 01) say how many games you saw. I hate Iverson's inefficiency but I watched him that year and dude was deserving of the MVP. Probably a tie between him and Shaq (3rd to Duncan) could have been appropriate.

PHXfanCRO
07-23-2011, 04:28 PM
hard to say there have been better and worse picks for the MVP but u can't say any of the MVP winners didn't deserve it at all.I don't think you get the most valuable part.Sure Nash wasn't the best player in the league in 2005 and 2006 but in 2005 he turned around a team with only 29 wins to win 62.He didn't have awesome stats but the Suns were horrible without him(idk but they went something like 2-5 without him).Shaq also deserved it but the Suns had a better record and that gave Nash the edge.In 2006 Amare got injured,Q-rich was traded and JJ went to Atlanta.But yet again after loosing his 1st option,his best 3 point shooter and another schoorer Nash(with a help of Marion and Diaw) led the Suns too a 54-28 record(2nd in the west) with posting a career high in scooring(18.8 on 51%) and 10 assist adding to that.Again Suns had a better record than the Lakers wich again gave Nash again th edge in the voting in front of Kobe.
Then you who say LeBron didn't deserve the MVP awards?Are you out of your mind.He led a medicore Cavs team to the league's best record 2 times having some of the best regular season ever.This year he had the team to win it all but he choked in the finals.Still this doesn't affect his 2009 and 2010 MVP's becouse the MVP is a regular season award
About Rose-again he did choke vs Miam but the MVP award is a regular season award(you have to get that).And in he regular season he led the Bulls to the leagues best record while putting up nice numbers
AI also deserved his MVP.His 76ers had the same record as Shaq's Lakers(in a weaker conference though) but AI ment more to his team than Shaq(although Shaq had better stats)

Shareeb_omac2
07-23-2011, 04:44 PM
Derrick Rose. ESPN and Bulls fans have made him into something he is not.

Stuckey#3
07-23-2011, 04:53 PM
ya you mad

I remember when Pistons fans said Rose was only good in his rookie year because of Ben Gordon.....

Yup.

No reason to bring the Pistons or BG into this... it's a little off topic.

Rose and Howard were the two best players in the league last year (during the regular season)... if Roses teammates had stepped up and he had been wise enough to conserve some energy then they would have won ECF and everybody would be talking about how he deserved MVP.

If you watched the Boston/Chicago series a couple years ago I think it's fair to say Gordon and Rose contributed equally (since you brought it up.)... not to mention the toughness of Brad Miller and Heinrich. They needed more firepower then and still need another scorer now.

Tony_Starks
07-23-2011, 05:26 PM
People do know that it wasn't the Bulls fans that voted D Rose MVP right? You guys act like they went to a Bulls game and passed out MVP ballots or something.....

IndiansFan337
07-23-2011, 06:01 PM
Iverson and/or Nash.

Shareeb_omac2
07-23-2011, 06:17 PM
The influence of hype won Rose his MVP. He didn't single handedly beat teams like most people think.

PHXfanCRO
07-23-2011, 06:38 PM
The influence of hype won Rose his MVP. He didn't single handedly beat teams like most people think.

no he didn't but who did?Isn't basketball a 5 on 5 sport? Rose won his MVP bc he led the Bulls team to the best record in the regular season.He did choke against the heat but the MVP is a regular season award
and for the record i'm not a Rose fan,more of a hater but this is bull$hit
and when you write a name try to explain why :)

BlitzBlud4
07-23-2011, 06:53 PM
no he didn't but who did?Isn't basketball a 5 on 5 sport? Rose won his MVP bc he led the Bulls team to the best record in the regular season.He did choke against the heat but the MVP is a regular season award
and for the record i'm not a Rose fan,more of a hater but this is bull$hit
and when you write a name try to explain why :)

I agree with some of that. He wasn't the sole reason why the Bulls had the best record in the league. It was mainly due to the Bulls being the best defensive team in the league, and that's what got im his MVP. He was good during the regular season, but others were more valuable to their team (Dwight), and were better during the season (LeBron).

Duncan = Donkey
07-23-2011, 10:55 PM
Well, obviously this is not true. You're leaving out even one of the basic primary statistics in assists.

Also, for keepers - blocked shots/save%.

There are also massive steps being taken to improve advanced stats for soccer - including an overall ranking of all top footballers in the Castrol Rankings http://www.castrolfootball.com/rankings/about/

Pass synergy between teams and particular teammates are also documented in major matches now (including past world cups), and the results are damn interesting and top clubs are being known to use them in evaluating potential prospect signings.

As quantifiable or objective as a sport like baseball? Of course not. But the statistics are there.

Also, a big reason why Americans are not huge soccer fans is because we have such a rich history of many different sports - and much of that has to do with A) our geographical isolation from the soccer havens in Europe/South America, and our wealth as a nation (affording virtually any kid who wants to play the capability of good courts to play basketball, fields/equipment to play football, ice rinks for hockey, etc). Soccer is a sport where you can be dirt poor and still enjoy (which is a great thing), but here in America that simply has not been an issue, and kids choose accordingly.

Doesn't help that the pretty boy/flopping ways of soccer icons like C. Ronaldo could not be further from the American ideals of what sport should be about - and plenty of people shy away from the sport due to its largely negative image in that sense.

Anyway, Iverson.

Statistics will never be a major part of arguing who is a better player in soccer. I will always believe you have to watch games to determine who are the top players.

And the castrol rankings are a joke, you actually receive points for completing a pass, its more like a fantasy sports system.

Joe Hart is not the best GK in the world, lol
Hummels and Pique are not the twio best defenders in the world.
Van Persie is ranked 5th, yes he in awesome player but top 5? he is always injured.
Hernandez is not the best striker at United
Lampard is not better than Iniesta or Xavi
Kevin Nolan is not a top 50 player, lol
And fianlly Stewart Downing is not better than Wayne Rooney, let alone a top 100 player

As you can the castrol system is an utter joke.

NetsPaint
07-23-2011, 11:05 PM
Nash led the Suns to 40 wins last season.

And for you stat people, he was second in win shares, LeBron being number one.

But, noooooo. Not many people will take that into account because the Suns didn't make the Playoffs. Amar'e not being on the team anymore? Doesn't matter! If Nash was that good he could lead a bunch of grammar school students to the Playoffs.

The top two MVP candidates last season in my book are Nash and Howard. The effect on their teams goes beyond stats and how many games the teams won.

im ur fatha
07-23-2011, 11:35 PM
A.i.

BlitzBlud4
07-24-2011, 12:29 AM
Nash led the Suns to 40 wins last season.

And for you stat people, he was second in win shares, LeBron being number one.

But, noooooo. Not many people will take that into account because the Suns didn't make the Playoffs. Amar'e not being on the team anymore? Doesn't matter! If Nash was that good he could lead a bunch of grammar school students to the Playoffs.

The top two MVP candidates last season in my book are Nash and Howard. The effect on their teams goes beyond stats and how many games the teams won.

Nash wasn't second in win shares in 2011, he wasn't in the top 20 in win shares or win shares per 48. Not sure where you got that stat from.

And im not sure your point, you seem to be contradicting yourself. You first say "if Nash was that good he could lead a bunch of grammar school students to the Playoffs" then you say he was in your top two MVP candidates last season. The Suns didn't make the playoffs and you consider him a top two MVP candidate? over players that did make the playoffs and had better seasons (LeBron, Rose, Durant, Dirk, Kobe)?

Chronz
07-24-2011, 02:32 AM
Thanks for the elementary level response

Lol, look at all the responses rose/ai homers are dishing out, "rose/ai was great blah blah blah you guys are hating", this futile argument of course ignores the fact that its a self evident for EVERY MVP, EVER! Its almost as if you guys don't want anyone asking such questions. NEWS FLASH, SOMEBODY has to have an inferior mvp run.

Its at the height of ignorance to think you can defend your favorite player by saying how good he was, what you have to worry about are the OTHER MVPS

itsripcity32
07-24-2011, 02:53 AM
ya you mad

I remember when Pistons fans said Rose was only good in his rookie year because of Ben Gordon.....

Yup.

lol i was laughing my *** off watching rose chuck 3s and losing

itsripcity32
07-24-2011, 02:53 AM
poor brandon knight he's going to get destroyed by drose until the day he retires...its aight keep hating on drose.

its aight rose will be on another team lol

itsripcity32
07-24-2011, 02:57 AM
i thought we were talking about worst mvp of all time.. why must bulls fans get so defensive and go on the attack ='(

Catfish1314
07-24-2011, 04:02 AM
lol i was laughing my *** off watching rose chuck 3s and losing

Losing in the Eastern Conference Finals? Wow that must have sucked. I feel sorry for those two teams every year who have to suffer through the agony of losing in the Conference Finals.

On another note, I'm not surprised this turned into a bash Steve Nash thread.

NetsPaint
07-24-2011, 04:43 AM
Nash wasn't second in win shares in 2011, he wasn't in the top 20 in win shares or win shares per 48. Not sure where you got that stat from.

And im not sure your point, you seem to be contradicting yourself. You first say "if Nash was that good he could lead a bunch of grammar school students to the Playoffs" then you say he was in your top two MVP candidates last season. The Suns didn't make the playoffs and you consider him a top two MVP candidate? over players that did make the playoffs and had better seasons (LeBron, Rose, Durant, Dirk, Kobe)?
I thought I heard that. If it's not right, than forget about that part.

And I was being sarcastic about the grammar school thing. I'm saying people expect too much from a player despite who's around him.

Individually do I think Nash was the best last season? Maybe not. I do think him and Howard were the REAL ones who had to carry a team on their backs like no other though. Rose, LeBron, Durant, Dirk, Kobe all have players to help them out enough. If Nash didn't do what he did who's knows what their record would have been.

A lot of people think it's crazy for me to think Nash was a candidate. I don't know why. 40 wins would get in the Playoffs in the East, and 40s wins is pretty damn good for not much help.

danidin
07-24-2011, 07:20 AM
steve nash

thunder2335
07-24-2011, 09:30 AM
nash beating out kobe when kobe averaged 35 is the worst for me

If you wanna go by numbers tell me this, how can Kobe, with 4 inches and a superior vertical leap than nash, only average 1 more rebound in 5 more minutes of playing time? Besides, how can Kobe be so valuable to his team since he ran Shaq out of town?

PHXfanCRO
07-24-2011, 12:59 PM
Nash wasn't second in win shares in 2011, he wasn't in the top 20 in win shares or win shares per 48. Not sure where you got that stat from.

And im not sure your point, you seem to be contradicting yourself. You first say "if Nash was that good he could lead a bunch of grammar school students to the Playoffs" then you say he was in your top two MVP candidates last season. The Suns didn't make the playoffs and you consider him a top two MVP candidate? over players that did make the playoffs and had better seasons (LeBron, Rose, Durant, Dirk, Kobe)?
I don't think Nash was a top 2 MVP candidate but do you know how many games have the Suns won without Nash?1 out of 7(I think but I'm sure I'm not far off) with an average scor difference of around -20 :speechless: also he led the league in APG and total assissts with his 2nd best player in Gortat(who was a backup centar back in Orlando) and 3rd best in a 38-old Hill
http://www.82games.com/1011/ROLRTG8.HTM when u you like stats here is a simple stats that shows you how the Suns perform with Nash on/off the court.Look how are the Suns doing with him off.-11 is horrible(ranks 2 in the league only behing Gimbson).If wasn't fighting with injures Suns would've had a chance to make the POs wich would make Nash a top 10 MVP candidate(at the age of 37).
Nash means to the Suns just as much as any other player means to his team(only maybe Howard to Orlando).But here we are supose to talk about bad MVPs and Nash didn't win a MVP this year so.
This expalins why he won his 2005 and 2006 MVPs.Those Suns teams had a lot of talent(at least the 2005 team) but Nash was the player who made it work.He gave easy shots to his teammates,he made cluch shots he was the center of their whole gaming sistem.Without him the whole team was lost.Even with that amount of talent the 2005 Suns went only 2-5 without Nash and 60 15 with him.The next year they went 54-28 without Amare,QRich and JJ and made the WCF with a 6foot9 SG/SF Boris Diaw playing C :speechless: btw the Suns were dominated by the Lakers front court(just to show you how bad were the Suns Cs/PFs)

nash beating out kobe when kobe averaged 35 is the worst for me
Kobe had awesome stats but the Lakers had a worse record even with Suns loosing 3 out of their key 5 players(and the D'Antoni Suns had a 7/8 man rotation so they lost half of their team basicly).

PZeef
07-24-2011, 01:31 PM
Worst MVP ever?

Every year Jordan didn't win it in his prime with the Bulls.

If you guys want to ignore record( like with Rose and AI), then compare Jordan's numbers to every MVP from 1986-1992, in other words every mvp Magic Johnson won.

Really the least deserving Mvps are then Magic Johnson's 3 MVP awards in the late 1980's.

Compare Jordan and Magics stats in the years Magic won them...yeah. MVP has never been about best player or best stats, so stop hating!

Drewlius
07-24-2011, 01:43 PM
Malone's 2nd, Nash, Rose

HouRealCoach
07-24-2011, 01:52 PM
nash having more mvps than kobe is so sad

Really? Lemme break it down...

From 97-2004, Kobe wasnt even the best player on the team so theres no MVP for that

2005 Kobe didnt make it to the playoffs, NAsh led a lottery team the year before to the best record in the league

2006 Its arguable but Nash once again led a team with Diaw at center and I think about 7 guys playing to the second seed in the west, You can also make a case for LeBron cause he averaged 31,7,6 and his team got 50 wins

2007 Dirk deserved and anyone that thinks he didnt is ********

2008 Kobe doesnt even deserve this one... CP3 hands down, then you can make the case for KG

2009 & 2010 LeBron shut it down and deserved both

2011 Rose easily

So it looks to me as if both only deserve one... I dont get why people think Kobe should have multiples


I hate to agree with this but when future generations look back and see that Shaq, Bryant, Wade combine for two MVPs they might come to that conclusion as well. NBA MVP is too political to put so much weight into, in regards to individual/individual comparisons. At least in the post-Jordan era.

What year was Wade deserving?


Did anyone watch the suns 05-06' it was a terrible team that without him and already without amare and q rich and joe johnson and most of the other players from the year before he still lead them to be a great team can't believe ppl put so much on numbers and for ppl making an argument for lbj should of got it last year instead of rose is ridiculous lets see how well he would of played without his two other superstars

People just dont understand how bad that Suns team would have been without him... One guy in a Laker forum a while back said that Diaw, Marion, Thomas, Bell was one of the greatest supporting casts ever LMAO!!!

No one still hasnt given me a valid reason why Rose doesnt deserve it


Are you ****ing serious dude? You use this to credit Nash's MVP but fail to acknowledge the fact that AI led the Sixers to the best record in the East, and before Theo Ratliff's injury and subsequent Mutombo trade, the Sixers were the best team in the NBA. And if going to the Finals isn't validation of the fact that he was so insanely deserving of the MVP, then I don't know what is.

Nash and Dirk are a couple of bad MVP's off the top of my head. Obviously Dirk redeemed himself this year, but his team got bounced in the first round to the 8th seed the year he won MVP. And Nash has never been to the Finals, so while his numbers are very good (not MVP caliber), he did not validate his MVP's come playoff time.

Ugh, this is so irritating reading all the people say that AI is the "worst MVP", that I couldn't even read past the 2nd page before stopping myself and saying something. Somebody please tell me why AI was the "worst MVP"? Oh, that's right.....he shoots the ball too much, his ego is too big, he has too many tattoos, he's a thug, blah blah blah.....Basically, there is no GOOD reason to say that he was the "worst MVP".

Dirk led his team to 67-15 and they damn near looked perfect that year... How was that not MVP worthy?


easily derrick rose followed by nash's first mvp

i would give allen iverson at second or third.. but he took his team to the finals AND beat the UNDEFEATED lakers in the 1st game away from home.


rose is like a poor mans allen iverson

AI took a team who's second leading scorer was Aaron Mckie I think... That speaks for itself

But once again break it down to me as to why Derrick Rose should not have won MVP and who should have... and anytime you take a lottery team lead them to the best record and I remember Nash got injured and Phx struggled and looked like the team that they were the year before..

Funny how no of these guys can back up their statements on Nash, Rose, and AI

It seems to me like they are mad because their PG's? or maybe because Kobe only has one(that he didnt deserve)

Hawkeye15
07-24-2011, 01:57 PM
i understand its difficult to do, but when discussing former MVP's, their playoff performances, or their teams playoff performances, in those respective years, don't factor into the MVP debte.

Its a regular season award. period. There also is a consensus criteria for it. If your team isn't a top 5-6 team, you stand nearly a 0 percent chance.

Cubby
07-24-2011, 03:11 PM
This is clearly a bash thread made for Rose and Nash. I don't even know why this is a thread. Every MVP has a reason why they were voted in. Especially Rose, Heat fans. ;) To all the people saying the Bulls' defense won him the MVP, that is false. While our team defense got us to the ECF, Rose single-handedly carried our offense the entire way. He is the only playmaker on the Bulls roster and was forced to carry a great load at such a young age. There are very few guys who carried a team at around the same age. Honestly I'm not going to answer this question because this is such a stupid question that was only asked so people can bash deserving players.

Cubby
07-24-2011, 03:12 PM
lol i was laughing my *** off watching rose chuck 3s and losing

I don't normally call people haters, but you are most definitely one. But hey, you must still be mad about BG since we warned you guys about him.

Ill21
07-24-2011, 03:21 PM
Prob Steve Nash. 15 ppg and 11 ast are not even close to mvp numbers

BlitzBlud4
07-24-2011, 03:51 PM
I thought I heard that. If it's not right, than forget about that part.

And I was being sarcastic about the grammar school thing. I'm saying people expect too much from a player despite who's around him.

Individually do I think Nash was the best last season? Maybe not. I do think him and Howard were the REAL ones who had to carry a team on their backs like no other though. Rose, LeBron, Durant, Dirk, Kobe all have players to help them out enough. If Nash didn't do what he did who's knows what their record would have been.

A lot of people think it's crazy for me to think Nash was a candidate. I don't know why. 40 wins would get in the Playoffs in the East, and 40s wins is pretty damn good for not much help.

I understand your point, it's valid, but how exactly is carrying a team to 40 wins and missing the playoffs really "carrying a team like no other". Nash played good but not at an allstar level. He was good in the 1st half of the season but then his production dipped a little in the last 2 months. I think had the suns made the playoffs, and had he played better in the last few months, then he would have gotten more consideration for MVP. He had a good season given his age but he wasn't missing out of the MVP talks IMO.

ChI_ShIzzLe
07-24-2011, 04:25 PM
The influence of hype won Rose his MVP. He didn't single handedly beat teams like most people think.

Unlike you I watched every single Bulls game last season, and most of those games came down to the 4th quarter, and Rose time and time again put teams away with his scoring and playmaking and the defense took care of the rest.

dj_jewlz
07-24-2011, 04:27 PM
The MVP Award is a joke. C'mon now. How is it that since 1999 the Duncan (4times), Shaq (5times), and Kobe (7times) reached the finals a combined total of 16 TIMES, But yet have a combined 4 regular season MVPs!!!

Shaq and Kobe have been robbed of numerous MVPs! Kobe should be on his 5th or 6th MVP. Shaq should have retired with at least 2-3. But the one that gets me the most is Kobe. How can you be considered the best player in the league by your peers for all those years and end with only one MVP?

I know there is a bunch of Kobe Haters on here, but cmon guys.... 1 MVP for Kobe??? So you mean to tell me that in 2005 you would have rather have had Nash on your team over Kobe? In 2006 you would have rather had Nash over Kobe? in 2007 Nowitzki over Kobe? In 2009 LBJ Over Kobe???

MVP award since 1999 = a JOKE, Ill give Duncas MVPs as legit, Shaqs and Kobes one a piece are very Legit. Kobe was deserving over CP3 that year no questions asked! AI's is very justifiable, guy was a beast even though the east was very weak at that time, Shaq could have gotten it that year, toss up. And DRose definatly deserved his, there was no doubt. KG, Nash, and Nowitski got the "we cant give it to Kobe because of his Colorado scandal" award!!! LMAO... cuz thats exactly why Kobe did not win it those years! Nuff said, Im out! Oh LBJ was not greater than kobe in 08-09. That should have been Kobes award too!!! Oh and thanks LBJ for not giving us the Finals we all wanted in 08-09 and 09-10. The puppet Nike commercials could have been sooo much better if you would have met the best player in the finals!!!

NetsPaint
07-24-2011, 05:08 PM
I understand your point, it's valid, but how exactly is carrying a team to 40 wins and missing the playoffs really "carrying a team like no other". Nash played good but not at an allstar level. He was good in the 1st half of the season but then his production dipped a little in the last 2 months. I think had the suns made the playoffs, and had he played better in the last few months, then he would have gotten more consideration for MVP. He had a good season given his age but he wasn't missing out of the MVP talks IMO.

Well, what I meant by "like not other" was that nobody else aside from Howard carried a team like he did last season. I didn't mean it in an epic way.

I disagree with you. imo he was definitely an All-Star. His numbers were actually similar to his MVP season (which is pretty great whether you think he was the MVP a few years ago or not). To me he was the best offensive PG in the game.

Yeah, his production did dip a little and got hurt. He did get his groove back again, but it was too late. I still think his name should have been in discussion. I would have totally been fine if Howard won it. Both had similar teams. Three point shooters, a lot of three point shooting, good players, no BIG help. Howard was a threat on both sides of the floor and got a lot of rebounds.

I don't dislike that Rose won it. He's a special player, however he doesn't have "garbage" around him like a lot of people I wouldn't be surprised say. They're a starting SG away from being a much bigger threat.

BlitzBlud4
07-24-2011, 05:36 PM
Well, what I meant by "like not other" was that nobody else aside from Howard carried a team like he did last season. I didn't mean it in an epic way.

I disagree with you. imo he was definitely an All-Star. His numbers were actually similar to his MVP season (which is pretty great whether you think he was the MVP a few years ago or not). To me he was the best offensive PG in the game.

Yeah, his production did dip a little and got hurt. He did get his groove back again, but it was too late. I still think his name should have been in discussion. I would have totally been fine if Howard won it. Both had similar teams. Three point shooters, a lot of three point shooting, good players, no BIG help. Howard was a threat on both sides of the floor and got a lot of rebounds.

I don't dislike that Rose won it. He's a special player, however he doesn't have "garbage" around him like a lot of people I wouldn't be surprised say. They're a starting SG away from being a much bigger threat.

His numbers in the first half of the season were pretty good- allstar worthy (17/11 52%), but he didn't make the team because the Suns record was below average and there were many other deserving guards in the West.

It's true though, his post-allstar numbers and production wasn't quite as good. In 23 games, he averaged 10/12 on 41% and the Suns went 12-11 with him. Again, had he played slightly better and had the suns won 6,7 more games (enough to make the playoffs), I think he would have had a legit case in making the top 10 in MVP voting

Nick O
07-24-2011, 06:33 PM
as a nash fan him id say he deserved his first one though...

PHXfanCRO
07-24-2011, 06:55 PM
The MVP Award is a joke. C'mon now. How is it that since 1999 the Duncan (4times), Shaq (5times), and Kobe (7times) reached the finals a combined total of 16 TIMES, But yet have a combined 4 regular season MVPs!!!

Shaq and Kobe have been robbed of numerous MVPs! Kobe should be on his 5th or 6th MVP. Shaq should have retired with at least 2-3. But the one that gets me the most is Kobe. How can you be considered the best player in the league by your peers for all those years and end with only one MVP?

I know there is a bunch of Kobe Haters on here, but cmon guys.... 1 MVP for Kobe??? So you mean to tell me that in 2005 you would have rather have had Nash on your team over Kobe? In 2006 you would have rather had Nash over Kobe? in 2007 Nowitzki over Kobe? In 2009 LBJ Over Kobe???

MVP award since 1999 = a JOKE, Ill give Duncas MVPs as legit, Shaqs and Kobes one a piece are very Legit. Kobe was deserving over CP3 that year no questions asked! AI's is very justifiable, guy was a beast even though the east was very weak at that time, Shaq could have gotten it that year, toss up. And DRose definatly deserved his, there was no doubt. KG, Nash, and Nowitski got the "we cant give it to Kobe because of his Colorado scandal" award!!! LMAO... cuz thats exactly why Kobe did not win it those years! Nuff said, Im out! Oh LBJ was not greater than kobe in 08-09. That should have been Kobes award too!!! Oh and thanks LBJ for not giving us the Finals we all wanted in 08-09 and 09-10. The puppet Nike commercials could have been sooo much better if you would have met the best player in the finals!!!
this post is just :worthy: you don't even now what the MVP award stands for so :facepalm:
I think what's nets trying to say is that Nash was 2nd most valuable player(do to his value to the team) not as a MVP award candidate(do to the Suns record)

bearadonisdna
07-28-2011, 03:27 PM
the vote for rose's mvp was a landslide near unanimous vote.

Shmontaine
07-28-2011, 04:29 PM
lol i was laughing my *** off watching rose chuck 3s and losing

good for you... it's sports entertainment... it's supposed to entertain you...

i also laughed my *** off when BG was signed big money by Detroit, only to be... well, BG... and i'm pretty sure i laughed harder than you did..

sports is fun, isn't it??:D