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Mile High Champ
07-22-2011, 11:24 AM
Hello Everyone,

Welcome to the NBA Mock Off-season Playoff voting. Every summer, between 50-65 PSD users participate in a game where each GM takes on the challenge of running the off-season for an NBA team. Those GM's are free to make trades, signings, pick up team option on players, conduct the draft etc as ways to help better improve their team. What we have here is the results of those GM's hard-work as we have now reached the playoffs.

Keep in mind when voting that teams have changed dramatically through the mock and many teams are operating with completely new starting line ups. So please take the time to look at the teams closely (depth chart and write up) before voting. Try to avoid being a homer and vote simply on who is the better team in the match up.

4) Dallas Mavs vs. 5) Minnesota T-Wolves


Mavs Have Home Court Advantage

Mavs Depth Chart

PG: Deron Williams || Norris Cole
SG: Andre Iguodola || Arron Afflalo
SF: Luol Deng || Reggie Williams
PF: David Lee || Taj Gibson || Jordan Williams
C: Tyson Chandler || Josh Harrellson || Keith Benson

T-Wolves Depth Chart

PG- Russell Westbrook / J.J. Barea / Diante Garrett
SG- Ray Allen / Tony Allen
SF- Wilson Chandler / Hedo Turkoglu / Jimmy Butler
PF- Kevin Love / Anthony Tolliver / Craig Brackins
C- DeAndre Jordan / 10 Jeff Foster / Derrick Caracter

Mavs Write Up


Round 1: Mavericks vs Timerwolves
First off, I’d like to say how much I’m looking forward to this series. PK and AP did a fantastic job with the Wolves and made them a great team now and in the future. However, the Mavericks are a much more balanced team and are significantly better on the defensive side of the ball and equal if not better offensively.

PG: Deron Williams vs Russell Westbrook
These are two of the premier point guards in the game and are franchise players to their respective clubs. The 10 head-head matchups between these two is rather close with a slight edge to Deron. He has put up 22/10 a game on .545 FG% in contrast to Westbrook’s 22/6 a game on .533 FG %. While Deron’s shooting numbers decreased last season, he was dealing with a wrist injury the final 2 months of the season and still managed to average 20 points, 10 assists and 4 rebounds a game with a .566 T.S. Amazingly enough, he put up these numbers with a supporting cast of Brook Lopez and Kris Humphries and a Utah squad that went from 2nd in the west to out of the playoffs. His supporting cast here in Dallas is significantly better than anything he’s played with in his Utah days consisting of Andre Iggy, Deng, Lee, Chandler, Afflalo, and Taj Gibson. In contrast, Westbrook will have to shoulder the responsibility of carrying a team and being its marquee player without the supporting cast he had in OKC or a second star in Durant. The talent level of these two players is very close; we feel Deron will have a nice advantage over Westbrook due to his ability to create and make his team better along with his ability to score.
Advantage: Mavericks

SG: Andre Iguodola vs Ray Allen
This is another great head to head match-up in where both players excel on opposite ends of the court; Allen offensively, Iggy defensively. Both had great years last season and were two of the better players at their respective positions. The difference here is Allen is now 36 years old and coming off his 14th year of professional basketball while Iggy is now entering his prime at 27. We have full confidence that Iggy can shut down Ray and be the effective do it all player for our squad. He averaged a career high 6.2 assists and 5 rebounds last season along with his elite perimeter defense. Allen will never lose his shooting touch, but Iggy is more than capable of stopping a 36 year old Allen while getting 15 a game on the offensive end.
Advantage: Push

SF: Luol Deng vs Wilson Chandler
This is one of two match-ups where we feel we have a huge advantage. Deng has absolutely dominated Chandler averaging 20/7 on 51% FG and 45% 3 point FG to Chandler’s 12/5 on 43% FG. That matchup aside, Deng anchored one of the best defenses in basketball last season and was the 2nd option to Rose on offensive most of the year. His 3 point shooting wasn’t fantastic, but certainly enough for teams to have to respect it at .345 mark. Chandler had a solid year, but certainly isn’t a game changing player on the best of days. With Deng defending him and his average shooting ability, Chandler will not be nearly as effective in where the t-wolves are putting a significant amount of pressure on him to do well. We win this match-up big here.
Advantage: Mavericks

PF: David Lee vs Kevin Love
There’s no denying it, they have a significant advantage in talent here. Kevin Love broke out last season into one of the better interior offensive scorers and rebounders. Lee is comparable to Love offensively and can easily average 20/10 in this series against Love. While Lee is widely considered a terrible defender, Kevin Love actually has a worse defensive rating over the course of their careers with a 109 rating to Lee’s 108 rating. A big part of this series we believe is our team defense which can hide Lee’s defensive woes. Also, Chandler will also spend time on Love for 10-12 minutes a game which will limit Love’s chances. With Gibson playing around 20 minutes a game as well, Lee will likely only spend a maximum of 20-25 minutes guarding Love. While the Wolves win the match-up, we feel we can live with Love getting 24/12 a game as Lee will be putting somewhere around 18-20 a game.
Advantage: Wolves

C: Deandre Jordan v Tyson Chandler
Three years from now, we may be talking about Jordan has a top 5 center in basketball. The Wolves are putting a ton of pressure on him to be that impact player by making him the anchor of their defense and giving him a max contract. Chandler on the other hand is coming off a career season and an NBA championship. His impact on the defensive end was arguably second to Dwight Howard. We see no problem with sticking Chandler on Love for a period of time as Jordan’s entire offensive skill set is dunks. Chandler’s defensive impact aside, he was ridiculously efficient offensively with a .697 TS% and averaging 10 points a game. We win this match-up big.

Bench:
There no denying it, our team is an 8-man rotation. But it’s a damn good one at that. Taj Gibson, Arron Afflalo, and Reggie Williams all play a significant role on our team and will get playing time. Afflalo and Williams were 2 of the better 3-point shooters both shooting above .420% from 3 last season and add the 1 component missing from our starting 5. Gibson proved his value last season as a capable starter and one of the best bench big men in basketball. His defensive presence will be huge in this series against Love. Yes, we do have rookies playing roles on our squad, but nothing that will make a huge impact on the game. The T-wolves have a solid bench, but only 1 or 2 players who would make any sort of impact on a game. They’re bench overall is deeper, but in a playoff series where 8 man rotations are more commonly used, we feel we have more impact players.
Advantage: Mavericks

X-Factor: Team Defense
This is without a doubt the strength of this club. We can score with anybody, but we feel we can match-up with any squad and shut them down completely. We have 3 elite defenders in Iggy, Deng, and Chandler and one of the better rebounders in the game in Lee. Afflalo and Gibson off the bench are both fantastic on defense and will contribute immensely. Championships are won on the defensive side of the ball and we feel we have the best defensive team in the mock.

Conclusion:
Once again, I’d like to say what a great job PK and AP have done with the Wolves. It is clear that the Mavericks are a superior team looking at the head to head match-ups. Defensively, we match up quite well with their star players in Westbrook and Love and can make the role players pretty insignificant. On offensive, Deron will be able to lead the most talented core he’s ever had around him giving him a chance to have a career year. Iggy, Deng and Lee all have the ability to be a capable 2nd option to Deron and would have no problem deferring to each other as they are all unselfish players. The Mavericks are simply the better team. Thank you for your time voters

T-Wolves Write Up


First of all congratulations to Jamal on making the playoffs.

The Wolves are a young core of players spearheaded by a few savvy veterans, which make us an incredibly dangerous team. We have arguably the most complete backcourt in the mock with also a starting frontcourt that compliments each other perfectly.

Now to our match-up with the Mavs:

Point Guard-
Starters– Russell Westbrook (Wolves) vs Deron Williams (Mavs)
Subs– JJ Barea (Wolves) vs Norris Cole (Mavs)

Russell Westbrook is a dynamic point guard who has great playmaking skills for his teammates with his ability to dribble-drive and to create his own shot. In this match-up our ability to break down the opposing team’s defense is going to be critical to our success. No doubt is Deron Williams a great point guard but we’ve given Westbrook better offensive options to create a more effective and dynamic offense on the floor. Westbrook and Williams will both produce but where the edge is given is with our subs. JJ Barea makes a large impact with his quickness and ability to get to the basket breaks down opposing defenses and opens a lot up for our shooters we have. To trust Norris Cole to guard the sparkplug we have in Barea is quite an advantage we have.

Shooting Guard-
Starters– Ray Allen (Wolves) vs Andre Iguodala (Mavs)
Subs– Tony Allen (Wolves) vs Arron Afflalo (Mavs)

This is a match-up that is extremely close but the edge has to be given to the Wolves for a few particular reasons. One is that Ray Allen doesn’t play into the strength of Andre Iguodala as a phenomenal on ball defender. Ray is always moving and being the savvy veteran that he is, he is an absolute master and setting up a high percentage look at a basket. Ray Allen is one of the greatest shooters of all time and with him being in continuous movement and going through screens he will wear down the physical Andre Iguodala. Tony Allen is possibly the best on defensive player in the NBA and will help us alot if one of Dallas' wings get hot. Overall the edge has to be given to the Timberwolves due to the fact that Ray Allen’s leadership and wealth of knowledge is going to allow him to be an effective contributor even though Iguodala is a strong defender.

Small Forward-
Starters– Wilson Chandler (Wolves) vs Luol Deng (Mavs)
Subs– Hedo Turkoglu (Wolves) vs Reggie Williams (Mavs)

Just as the case is with our shooting guard match-up we like what Chandler can do verse Deng. No doubt you can argue that Deng is better than Chandler is at this point but Chandler in our offense won’t allow Deng’s strength as an on ball defender get the better of him. Chandler has never played with such a dynamic point guard and playmaker in Russell Westbrook which will open up Chandler’s game as well as his ability to be a key 3rd or 4th option at times. With our subs we love what Hedo brings to our 2nd unit in that he is a veteran point-forward who can slow the game down and set-up our half-court offense when Barea isn’t leading a fastbreak or isn’t getting to the rim with ease in this match-up. Reggie Williams is a very solid shooter but not much more than that. Hedo will be the perfect compliment to Chandler's game coming off the bench.

Power Forward-
Starters- Kevin Love (Wolves) vs. David Lee (Mavs)
Subs- Anthony Tolliver (Wolves) vs. Taj Gibson (Mavs)

In 2011, Kevin Love led all power forwards in efficiently and was 2nd in the NBA only to Dwight Howard. He was the best rebounder in the league with over 15 a game and with Love and Jordan we should dominate the boards. Love also averaged over 20 points per game and shot 42% from 3. He is also known as a great passer. Tolliver shot 40% from 3 and averaged 7 points per game.

David Lee is basically Kevin Love but is a much worse version. He averaged almost 10 rebounds a game. He scored 16 a game but his terrible defense should allow Love to have field days this series. Lee is also not a threat from 3 so he won't open the lane like Dirk did for other players.

Center-
Starters- DeAndre Jordan (Wolves) vs. Tyson Chandler (Mavs)
Subs- Jeff Foster (Wolves) vs. Josh Harrellson (Mavs)

Jordan is an up-and-coming center and preformed very well with Blake Griffin last season. Now he has Kevin Love as his running-mate, Love will allow Jordan to work more in the paint by himself, due to Love's ability to score from outside the paint. Also Jordan has never had a PG like Westbrook. Foster is a very proven backup.

Chandler is constantly injured and the only season he has been healthy the past few years, he only played 27 minutes a game. And who do they have to sub in for Chandler? Josh Harrellson. Or they slide David Lee to center and in that case we will be scoring inside all day. Also Dirk and Chandler were perfect complements, I doubt Lee+Chandler works as well as that did for Tyson.

sep11ie
07-22-2011, 11:28 AM
I like Chadelor and Lee next to each other, and A.I.2 and Deng will shut people down.

rapjuicer06
07-22-2011, 11:35 AM
I went with the T-Wolves for the fact that Love is the deciding factor. Mavs have defense, but very little offense outside of Williams. Ray Allen is a damn good pure shooter, I'm not sure if Iggy, while being a great defender, could keep up with Ray through all those screens. And having the luxury of bringing Tony Allen off the bench is huge for the T-Wolves.

Mile High Champ
07-22-2011, 11:41 AM
Before the Mavs made the decision to trade Dirk in the mock, I thought they were likely the team to beat. As much as I despise David Lee, I do think the combo of Lee and Chandler would work down low. I think this is easily the toughest match up that we will see in the first round and the depth of both teams is pretty damn impressive, especially on the wings. I really like the job the Wolves have done turning around their team into a true contender.

In the end my biggest concern with the Mavs is the spacing in their starting lineup. I don't feel confident in any of their starters being able to space the floor and hit the 3 if needed. That could really hurt this team and could likely be the difference in the series. I take the Wolves in 7 games.

jimbobjarree
07-22-2011, 11:46 AM
gimme the mavs

Sadds The Gr8
07-22-2011, 11:47 AM
so close but I like the Mavs balance.

NYKalltheway
07-22-2011, 11:53 AM
I think this should be very very close till the end

Sly Guy
07-22-2011, 12:04 PM
Mavs. More than anything, youth vs experience, and in this case, I think the experience gets the better of em. Deng and Iggy will get the better of their matchups, while the experience of Chandler and Lee will serve them well in holding up against and athletic front line of Love and DeAndre.

Deron is the better in the PG matchup as well, but after watching Westbrook this past playoffs pretty closely, I think the dude would shoot them out of the game regardless.

the one thing I can see going well for the wolves would be their bench. As maligned as big Turk is, I can see him doing some damage with Barea. Barea playing point, but like last year with Dallas, doesn't need the ball every possession to be effective, that'll allow Turk to play on the ball more and potentially play well.

MiamiWadeCounty
07-22-2011, 12:38 PM
The bench is the deciding factor for me. I think both starting lineups are pretty close but I like TA more than Affalo and JJ + Foster is so much better than the Mavs backup 1 and 5 in Cole and Harrelson.

Foye
07-22-2011, 12:56 PM
T. Chandler > DeAndre
Lee < Love
Deng = W. Chandler
Iggy = Allen
Deron > Westbrook
Give me the Mavs for the fact that Russell Westbrook's basketball IQ is incredibly low. He just completely ignored his teammates in the 4th quarter in some playoff games. Can't do that as a freakin PG. He's a big reason the Thunder lost to the Mavs.
They also have the better front court. Jordan isn't ready to be a starting Center on a playoff team. And while Lee is not as good as Love he's more ready to compete in the playoffs than Jordan.
The Wolves lose this series 4-2.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-22-2011, 01:04 PM
I'm going with the T-Wolves because their bench is better IMO.

rapjuicer06
07-22-2011, 01:11 PM
T. Chandler > DeAndre
Lee < Love
Deng = W. Chandler
Iggy = Allen
Deron > Westbrook
Give me the Mavs for the fact that Russell Westbrook's basketball IQ is incredibly low. He just completely ignored his teammates in the 4th quarter in some playoff games. Can't do that as a freakin PG. He's a big reason the Thunder lost to the Mavs.
They also have the better front court. Jordan isn't ready to be a starting Center on a playoff team. And while Lee is not as good as Love he's more ready to compete in the playoffs than Jordan.
The Wolves lose this series 4-2.

What about the bench? Having Foster off the bench is a huuuuge advantage for the Wolves. And having the luxury of bringing Tony Allen off the bench, wow. The Wolves have two guys in there starting lineup that are incredible 3 point shooters, and 1 off the bench in Tolliver. Basketball is played by more than 5 guys my friend

AP=MVP
07-22-2011, 01:30 PM
What about the bench? Having Foster off the bench is a huuuuge advantage for the Wolves. And having the luxury of bringing Tony Allen off the bench, wow. The Wolves have two guys in there starting lineup that are incredible 3 point shooters, and 1 off the bench in Tolliver. Basketball is played by more than 5 guys my friend

Exactly, these are the playoffs, so few teams, if any, make it through the regular season completely healthy. If my team sustains an injury to the starting line-up I can deal with it. But if his does he is screwed. And I highly doubt Chandler stays healthy all year again, plus he only plays 27 minutes a game any way and who does he have to bring in for him. JOSH HARRELLSON

Plus he said he plans to use Tyson Chandler on Love. :D Love will bring Chandler away from the basket and open the lane up for Westbrook and Wilson Chandler to drive, because Lee protecting the basket in laughable.

Also you may say that Westbrook was a ball-hog in the playoffs but Durant was hardly ever looking for the ball late in last years playoffs. We built this team for Westbrook to succeed and he will because he has shooters to kick out to (Ray Ray and Love) and he has a big man to throw the alley oop to when he drives the lane and draws the defense (Jordan).

Mile High Champ
07-22-2011, 01:52 PM
Close match up.

AP=MVP
07-22-2011, 02:07 PM
I got one guy with less than 100 posts, so this is technically a tie matchup

John Walls Era
07-22-2011, 02:17 PM
So glad that recruits votes don't count. Good rule to implement in future games.

Both teams don't have low post scorers. Really close tbh.

ABOMB_56
07-22-2011, 02:59 PM
Mavs got a lot of hate after the Dirk trade, but there team now is one of the most well-rounded in the Mock. I voted for them, but the Wolves' GM did a marvelous job and deserve a :clap:

Corey
07-22-2011, 03:04 PM
This matchup is so close. Man.

I think the Mavs have a better starting five right now. Deron is an upgrade over Westbrook. Iggy and Allen are a wash IMO. Tyson Chandler is an upgrade over Jordan. Deng and Chandler are a wash as well.

Still, the Timberwolves have a much superior bench. The Mavs are talented, but can they win a playoff series with 3 players off the bench? An 8 man rotation has worked for some teams in the past, but I think the Wolves bench is too much to handle.

I just really like the way the Wolves roster works together. Allen's the shooter. Chandler is a slasher. Westbrook is a top-of-the-line PG who is only getting better. Love is the best rebounder in the game. Deandre Jordan is an athletic-as-hell center with youth and upside that can bring energy defensively. It just works well for me.

I have to go with the Wolves bench and complimentary starting lineup. The Mavs have a more star-studded starting lineup, but I just like the wolves roster overall.

Chacarron
07-22-2011, 03:11 PM
I voted T-Wolves.

LosDoyers1
07-22-2011, 03:16 PM
I have to go with the Wolves bench and complimentary starting lineup. The Mavs have a more star-studded starting lineup, but I just like the wolves roster overall.

+1. The bench is the deciding factor for me. Wolves have the more well-rounded team.

Sixerlover
07-22-2011, 03:27 PM
The Benches come into play. I'm going Wolves. Close series, really close. But Wolves win

Joshtd1
07-22-2011, 03:30 PM
I think this would be a 7 game series, but I think the Mavs would pull it out. Very very close though. Love the job the GM's did with the Wolves though, absolutely fantastic.

VCaintdead17
07-22-2011, 03:47 PM
I don't see how Deng and Chandler are a wash...

greg_ory_2005
07-22-2011, 04:04 PM
God damn, this is a tough choice. The Mavs have the better starting 5 IMO, but the Wolves bench is just way better. I'll take the Wolves. There's just too much of a dropoff between the starting 5 and the bench for the Mavs.

mightybosstone
07-22-2011, 04:09 PM
These are two incredibly well put together teams, and I'm a little shocked this is a 4-5 matchup. The Wolves clearly have the deeper bench, but the Mavs defense is unbelievable. To think of D-Will, Iggy and Deng defending the same backcourt is ridiculous and Chandler is the defensive anchor that helped the real Mavs win the title.

Something else that I haven't seen many people take into consideration is experience. Three of the Mavs' five starters have gone deep in the playoffs and Iggy has played in his fair share of first round playoff series. Wilson Chandler, Love and Jordan have played in a combined one playoff series in their careers, and Allen is the only player in their starting five over the age of 24.

I do think the Mavs will struggle to shoot the 3-ball, but I can't get over how good their defense is. I think the Mavs win a close series in six games.

mightybosstone
07-22-2011, 04:17 PM
And as far as benches go, I actually don't think the Wolves bench is THAT much better than the Mavs bench. If you ran an 8-man rotation, you could do so much worse than Afflalo, Williams and Gibson. Afflalo and Gibson are both phenomenal defensive players who could start for a lot of teams in this league. I like Barrea, Allen, Turkoglu and Foster, and they certainly have more experience, but I don't think that's enough to give them an edge.

rapjuicer06
07-22-2011, 04:21 PM
What do they do about the big man rotation? Ty only averages like 28 minutes a game. Don't tell me Lee and Taj is going to be a good Front Court

mightybosstone
07-22-2011, 04:28 PM
What do they do about the big man rotation? Ty only averages like 28 minutes a game. Don't tell me Lee and Taj is going to be a good Front Court

If I'm the Mavs, I have no problem playing Gibson 25-30 minutes a game and giving him some serious minutes against Love. Love is the only dangerous big man offensively on the Wolves roster. Dallas just needs a big body to keep Jordan from dunking and I certainly wouldn't be concerned about Tolliver or Foster offensively.

PocketKings
07-22-2011, 04:31 PM
Something else to really consider to is that with the slashers we have in Wilson Chandler and Tony Allen, as well as the PG's we have in Westbrook and Barea, when Chandler's not in the game they will have absolutely no interior defense.

There lack of a consistent "floor stretcher" is going to really hurt them this series. We have players and a balance that doesn't play to Dallas's strength at all. Iggy isn't going to be able to muscle-up Ray Ray because he'll be chasing him around, and Love will abuse Lee.

We feel like we have the perfect mix of depth to knock off the Mavs.

Once again, great job to Jamal, this is an incredibly close match-up.

PocketKings
07-22-2011, 04:33 PM
If I'm the Mavs, I have no problem playing Gibson 25-30 minutes a game and giving him some serious minutes against Love. Love is the only dangerous big man offensively on the Wolves roster. Dallas just needs a big body to keep Jordan from dunking and I certainly wouldn't be concerned about Tolliver or Foster offensively.

Tolliver is quite a solid rebounder for the limited minutes he plays and a 40% 3 pt shooter.

Not worrying about him might be a mistake he has to be on your radar.

Jeff Foster is all heart and hustle, not boxing him out will cause for a lot of extra possessions for us.

rapjuicer06
07-22-2011, 04:33 PM
If I'm the Mavs, I have no problem playing Gibson 25-30 minutes a game and giving him some serious minutes against Love. Love is the only dangerous big man offensively on the Wolves roster. Dallas just needs a big body to keep Jordan from dunking and I certainly wouldn't be concerned about Tolliver or Foster offensively.

Tolliver is actually a damn good 3 point shooter. He won't play a whole heck of a lot, but when he gets in there that guy can shoot man. And Foster won't do a whole lot offensively, I agree...but he will hustle after every loose ball and play some damn good in your face, hard noised defense.

mightybosstone
07-22-2011, 04:38 PM
Tolliver is quite a solid rebounder for the limited minutes he plays and a 40% 3 pt shooter.

Not worrying about him might be a mistake he has to be on your radar.

Jeff Foster is all heart and hustle, not boxing him out will cause for a lot of extra possessions for us.

I'm not saying Tolliver and Foster are completely useless players, but if I had a choice of both of them or one Taj Gibson as my bench bigs, I'd take one Taj Gibson.

tyfreaks brotha
07-22-2011, 04:42 PM
But the upgrade from Harrellson to Foster easily makes Wolves have the best backup big bench

Mr. Baller
07-22-2011, 04:45 PM
Wolves

mightybosstone
07-22-2011, 04:57 PM
But the upgrade from Harrellson to Foster easily makes Wolves have the best backup big bench

Harrellson doesn't have to play a single minute, and even if he does get 5-10 minutes a game, my guess it would only be with Tolliver or Foster on the floor. Considering both frontcourts, I'd rather have the Mavs bigs than the Wolves bigs.

PocketKings
07-22-2011, 05:06 PM
Harrellson doesn't have to play a single minute, and even if he does get 5-10 minutes a game, my guess it would only be with Tolliver or Foster on the floor. Considering both frontcourts, I'd rather have the Mavs bigs than the Wolves bigs.

That might be better for the Wolves than due to the fact that having Taj + Lee protecting them rim will allow Westy/Barea with their ability to get to the rim even that much more lethal. Go ahead and collapse we have Ray Ray/Hedo/Tolliver/Love who can drain the open 3. Or if not our perimeter players can catch and slash once you try to rotate and closeout in TA/Chandler.

We have the perfect mix of shooters, slashers, and drivers to offset Dallas's biggest strength.

mightybosstone
07-22-2011, 05:14 PM
That might be better for the Wolves than due to the fact that having Taj + Lee protecting them rim will allow Westy/Barea with their ability to get to the rim even that much more lethal. Go ahead and collapse we have Ray Ray/Hedo/Tolliver/Love who can drain the open 3. Or if not our perimeter players can catch and slash once you try to rotate and closeout in TA/Chandler.

We have the perfect mix of shooters, slashers, and drivers to offset Dallas's biggest strength.

That's all well and good, but I think you'd be hard pressed to drive on Dallas' defense. D-Will, Iggy, Deng and Afflalo are all incredible perimeter defenders. I just don't see Westbrook or Barea consistently getting the edge on those guys. I also think you're seriously underrating Gibson's shot blocking ability. He averaged 1.3 blocks in only 22 minutes a game last season. He's more than capable of defending the rim...

KnicksorBust
07-22-2011, 05:21 PM
Wolves.

PocketKings
07-22-2011, 05:22 PM
That's all well and good, but I think you'd be hard pressed to drive on Dallas' defense. D-Will, Iggy, Deng and Afflalo are all incredible perimeter defenders. I just don't see Westbrook or Barea consistently getting the edge on those guys. I also think you're seriously underrating Gibson's shot blocking ability. He averaged 1.3 blocks in only 22 minutes a game last season. He's more than capable of defending the rim...

The problem with Gibson being your rim-protector is if he's manning up on either Love, Tolliver, or Jordan.

You definitely dont want him to leave his man to protect the rim if he's guarding one of those guys.

All in all, we have consistent shooters in our line-up, whereas where will Dallas find somebody to consistently spread the floor for them.
There only real legitimate 3 point shooter is Arron Afflalo but do you trust him to be a big enough difference maker in a 7 game series?

Edit: Also we have some key veterans on our team in Ray Allen, Tony Allen, Hedo Turkoglu, and Jeff Foster to help balance out our youth. Not to mention JJ Barea just won a championship and Russel Westbrook was a key cog in the Thunder advancing to the WCF this year.

In a Game 7 with everything on the line I like Ray Ray to get himself open behind some screens for a dagger 3!

mightybosstone
07-22-2011, 05:31 PM
The problem with Gibson being your rim-protector is if he's manning up on either Love, Tolliver, or Jordan. You definitely dont want him to leave his man to protect the rim if he's guarding one of those guys.
You can make this argument with any shot blocking big man in the league. But, bottom line, a team has to be able to play good team defense to prevent players from getting to the rim in the first place, and the Mavs are clearly capable of that.


All in all, we have consistent shooters in our line-up, whereas where will Dallas find somebody to consistently spread the floor for them.
There only real legitimate 3 point shooter is Arron Afflalo but do you trust him to be a big enough difference maker in a 7 game series?
I do think your team has better shooters, but I certainly don't think you can say D-Will and Den aren't "legitimate" 3-point shooters. Williams is a career 36percent shooter and Deng has consistenly averaged 35-40 percent the last four seasons. That's certainly not elite, but they're still decent.

In fact, Afflalo and Reggie Williams were both top 10 in the league in 3-point shooting average last season, averaging 42 percent and hitting a combined 207 3's in the regular seasons. So, I think the Mavs will get by just fine...

KnicksorBust
07-22-2011, 05:32 PM
That's all well and good, but I think you'd be hard pressed to drive on Dallas' defense. D-Will, Iggy, Deng and Afflalo are all incredible perimeter defenders. I just don't see Westbrook or Barea consistently getting the edge on those guys. I also think you're seriously underrating Gibson's shot blocking ability. He averaged 1.3 blocks in only 22 minutes a game last season. He's more than capable of defending the rim...

One too many and Iggy's "incredible perimeter d" would be wasted on Ray Allen. The only real matchup where the lockdown D will be useful is Deng vs. Chandler. Chandler's always been a tad overrated on both ends. Deng would lock him down. My issue is the Mavs have no legit PG or C off the bench. That's a huge whole and when you have a dynamic PG like Westbrook and a rebounding machine like Love, I think the Twolves can exploit that for about 1/4 of the game.

PocketKings
07-22-2011, 05:37 PM
You can make this argument with any shot blocking big man in the league. But, bottom line, a team has to be able to play good team defense to prevent players from getting to the rim in the first place, and the Mavs are clearly capable of that.


I do think your team has better shooters, but I certainly don't think you can say D-Will and Den aren't "legitimate" 3-point shooters. Williams is a career 36percent shooter and Deng has consistenly averaged 35-40 percent the last four seasons. That's certainly not elite, but they're still decent.

In fact, Afflalo and Reggie Williams were both top 10 in the league in 3-point shooting average last season, averaging 42 percent and hitting a combined 207 3's in the regular seasons. So, I think the Mavs will get by just fine...

Keep in mind the problem with putting in Afflalo and Reggie Williams in the game to stretch the floor is they have to take out Iggy and Deng.

Due to this, Tony Allen's minutes in this series will be cut down and the split between Chandler and Hedo won't be that bad.

Ray Ray shot north of 40% from 3, so did Hedo, and so did both Love and Tolliver.

Getting to the bucket even with the perimeter defenders they have will be difficult but it can definitely be done in this match-up and be done consistantly with the usages of a lot of pick-and-rolls, because once again the balance my line-up has in shooters and slashers will force the opposing team to have damn near a perfect defensive rotation and if not can spell doom for them.

mightybosstone
07-22-2011, 05:49 PM
One too many and Iggy's "incredible perimeter d" would be wasted on Ray Allen.
Last time I checked, Afflalo is always praised for his defense. And I fail to see how Iggy is "wasted" on Allen, who is far more than just a spot up shooter offensively. He gets a ton of his shots on screens, and you have to have a defender with length who can fight through the screen. Iggy can certainly be that guy.


My issue is the Mavs have no legit PG or C off the bench. That's a huge whole and when you have a dynamic PG like Westbrook and a rebounding machine like Love, I think the Twolves can exploit that for about 1/4 of the game.So, you're expecting Westbrook and Love to both play a full 48 minutes? I also think you're seriously underrating Gibson as a defender and rebounder.

AP=MVP
07-22-2011, 06:04 PM
Last time I checked, Afflalo is always praised for his defense. And I fail to see how Iggy is "wasted" on Allen, who is far more than just a spot up shooter offensively. He gets a ton of his shots on screens, and you have to have a defender with length who can fight through the screen. Iggy can certainly be that guy.

So, you're expecting Westbrook and Love to both play a full 48 minutes? I also think you're seriously underrating Gibson as a defender and rebounder.

They won't play a full 48 but neither will Tyson and Williams.

Norris Cole vs. JJ Barea :drool:

Plus good luck with a three man rotation in the frontcourt with people trying to keep Westbrook, Chandler, and Barea from the rim and keep Jordan, Foster, and Love off the glass. I smell foul trouble for their bigs.

AP=MVP
07-22-2011, 06:08 PM
Plus no one ever commented on the fact that he plans to put Tyson on Love with Lee on Jordan. Love would draw Chandler outside and open the paint wide open. Plus Chandler with not be comfortable guarding Love who of course shoots great but also could go by Chandler since he can't lay off due to Love's shot.

KnicksorBust
07-22-2011, 06:13 PM
Last time I checked, Afflalo is always praised for his defense. And I fail to see how Iggy is "wasted" on Allen, who is far more than just a spot up shooter offensively. He gets a ton of his shots on screens, and you have to have a defender with length who can fight through the screen. Iggy can certainly be that guy.

So, you're expecting Westbrook and Love to both play a full 48 minutes? I also think you're seriously underrating Gibson as a defender and rebounder.

Iggy's had a tough time with Ray his whole career and Iggy's value is in his man to man defense off the dribble. I'd almost rather see them put Iggy on Westbrook. If you make him run through all those screens he will become even less effective on offense.

Yes I'm expecting Westbrook and Love to play 48 minutes. :rolleyes: Even when they are out JJ Barea and Jeff Foster can create those same mismatch proves. Barea brings a spark and uncanny ability to get in the paint. The thought of David Lee as a last line of defense is comical. Trust me, I know better than anyone how comical it would be. Then Jeff Foster is one of the best offensive rebounders in the league with the 5th best offensive rebounding percentage in NBA History.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/orb_pct_career.html

AP=MVP
07-22-2011, 06:16 PM
This atleast 100 posts rule is killing me. I have 3 of those votes, he has 1, so this is tied I guess

mightybosstone
07-22-2011, 06:17 PM
They won't play a full 48 but neither will Tyson and Williams.

Norris Cole vs. JJ Barea :drool:

Plus good luck with a three man rotation in the frontcourt with people trying to keep Westbrook, Chandler, and Barea from the rim and keep Jordan, Foster, and Love off the glass. I smell foul trouble for their bigs.

If I'm the Mavs, I don't play any of the rookies more than 5 minutes a game, and would completely avoid using them altogether unless there's foul trouble or one team has a comfortable lead late in a game.

When Williams comes out, I think you put Afflalo at the 1 and run the offense through Iggy at the 2 or 3 (which he's more than capable of doing). In the frontcourt, I think you stick with Lee, Chandler and Gibson religiously. If there is SERIOUS foul trouble, you can bring in one of the rookies to guard Tolliver or Foster, if absolutely necessary.

I'm not saying it will never be a problem, but I'm saying most teams run an 8-9 man rotation and don't have serious problems with it. I think depth is FAR less important in the playoffs than you're making it out to be.

PocketKings
07-22-2011, 06:17 PM
Wow, this one will go down to the wire... its insane!
AHHHHHH!!!!

KnicksorBust
07-22-2011, 06:32 PM
If I'm the Mavs, I don't play any of the rookies more than 5 minutes a game, and would completely avoid using them altogether unless there's foul trouble or one team has a comfortable lead late in a game.

When Williams comes out, I think you put Afflalo at the 1 and run the offense through Iggy at the 2 or 3 (which he's more than capable of doing). In the frontcourt, I think you stick with Lee, Chandler and Gibson religiously. If there is SERIOUS foul trouble, you can bring in one of the rookies to guard Tolliver or Foster, if absolutely necessary.

I'm not saying it will never be a problem, but I'm saying most teams run an 8-9 man rotation and don't have serious problems with it. I think depth is FAR less important in the playoffs than you're making it out to be.

This I can agree with to some extent. The issue is it's 8 players deep and then disaster. He really should have locked into some cheap vets at PG and C. His rotation is a nightmare after that 8th man and considering he has players who come with injury-concerns (IE: Deng and Chandler) that could really hurt him. Hell Deron and Iggy even missed time this year.

mightybosstone
07-22-2011, 06:34 PM
Even when they are out JJ Barea and Jeff Foster can create those same mismatch proves.
Overall, I think I get your point, but I want you to rethink this in your head for a moment. You're comparing Barea and Foster to Westbrook and Love. The argument almost fails immediately based soledly on the comedy factor...


Barea brings a spark and uncanny ability to get in the paint. The thought of David Lee as a last line of defense is comical. Trust me, I know better than anyone how comical it would be.
Who said David Lee is the last line of defense? I would assume Gibson or Chandler would be prowling the paint, both admirable shot blockers. Yes, if Lee was the best defensive big on the floor, they would certainly be in trouble. I don't see that happening.


Then Jeff Foster is one of the best offensive rebounders in the league with the 5th best offensive rebounding percentage in NBA History.
Who cares? The guy is going to play a whopping 15-20 minutes a game, and it's not as if Chandler, Lee or Gibson are horrible defenders...

mightybosstone
07-22-2011, 06:36 PM
I'm a little surprised the Mavs GM hasn't defended his team a little more. I think I'm done defending it, now. Good luck to both teams.

Corey
07-22-2011, 06:37 PM
I don't see how Deng and Chandler are a wash...

Elaborate?

KnicksorBust
07-22-2011, 06:57 PM
Overall, I think I get your point, but I want you to rethink this in your head for a moment. You're comparing Barea and Foster to Westbrook and Love. The argument almost fails immediately based soledly on the comedy factor...


Who said David Lee is the last line of defense? I would assume Gibson or Chandler would be prowling the paint, both admirable shot blockers. Yes, if Lee was the best defensive big on the floor, they would certainly be in trouble. I don't see that happening.


Who cares? The guy is going to play a whopping 15-20 minutes a game, and it's not as if Chandler, Lee or Gibson are horrible defenders...

Did you not see Barea in the playoffs? :confused: He single-handedly swung multiple playoff games. It was unreal watching him get in the paint and score or dish to the open man. If that open man is Ray Allen or Hedo that 3 is going in.

In terms of overall production obviously Foster is a significant drop but if you ignore his value on the offensive glass you are being ignorant. David Lee, despite his gaudy rebounding numbers, doesn't box out anyone and he would most likely be the one guarding Foster. In a series this close, any edge is relevant.

Although Chandler, and Gibson are not all horrible defenders, Lee is and Chandler is slightly below average as a man to man defender. He's an okay help defender but overall that frontline would have an extremely tough time in a close playoff series. Tyson Chandler, even when healthy, does not play as many minutes as much top players so that bench would be leaned upon heavily.

Baller1
07-22-2011, 07:10 PM
The Mavs depth is absolute garbage. That hurts in a 7 game series. I'll take Wolves.

VCaintdead17
07-22-2011, 07:34 PM
Elaborate?

Deng is just a flat out better. Better shooter, passer, better defender. Deng has a better TS, eFG, more WS, more WS/48, better passing %, better ORTG, better DRtG, better PER (although I'm not a fan of that stat), while they have the same usage %.

Deng was a HUGE part in the Bulls getting the best overall record in the league this season.

Sportfan
07-22-2011, 09:59 PM
Man I wish I had another vote

RevisIsland
07-23-2011, 12:33 AM
Very impressive job by that Twolves GM.

PocketKings
07-23-2011, 12:44 AM
Very impressive job by that Twolves GM.

It was a duo of AP=MVP & myself and thank you man.

Welcome to PSD btw.

mightybosstone
07-23-2011, 01:13 AM
I will say this much... While I do believe that the Mavs team would beat the Wolves, I think the Wolves have done a SIGNIFICANTLY better job with that roster than the Mavericks have. The Mavericks turned a championship team into a first round playoff exit and the Wolves took one of the worst teams in the NBA and made it to the second round. Acquiring Westbrook and Allen with the other roster improvements they've made without giving up Kevin Love is pretty remarkable.

PocketKings
07-23-2011, 01:21 AM
I will say this much... While I do believe that the Mavs team would beat the Wolves, I think the Wolves have done a SIGNIFICANTLY better job with that roster than the Mavericks have. The Mavericks turned a championship team into a first round playoff exit and the Wolves took one of the worst teams in the NBA and made it to the second round. Acquiring Westbrook and Allen with the other roster improvements they've made without giving up Kevin Love is pretty remarkable.

Thank you. :)

AP=MVP
07-23-2011, 01:46 AM
Less than 10 hours left and we still hold a 7 vote lead :D

AP=MVP
07-23-2011, 11:55 AM
We will see you in the Staples Center for Game 1.

The_Jamal
07-23-2011, 02:08 PM
A lot of what is said about my team doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but i'll just say congrats to PK and AP. They did a great job with their team and will give the Lakeshow a run for there money.

The_Jamal
07-23-2011, 02:12 PM
I'm a little surprised the Mavs GM hasn't defended his team a little more. I think I'm done defending it, now. Good luck to both teams.

I was out of town and couldn't do so

AP=MVP
07-23-2011, 03:43 PM
Good job anyway Jamal, you built a good team and even without you able to defend it, gave us a run for our money