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Adam23
07-22-2011, 05:17 AM
How would panathinaikos (euroleague champion) do in the nba?

TrueFan420
07-22-2011, 06:03 AM
it would be interesting to see. if im not mistaken there are some differences in rules that would take some adjusting to. are they in the east or west? cause that makes a big difference.

gwrighter
07-22-2011, 07:33 AM
They would probably be one of the worst teams. They might be a pretty decent team in general, but playing 82 games vs. the top talent in the world would take a toll on their nightly performance. Especially with the advanced scouting NBA teams do.

wjmoffatt
07-22-2011, 08:01 AM
Do you not think Euro teams do advanced scouting?
They would honestly do very well for you homers out there that believe we are the best at everything. True the NBA players might be more talented but how blind do you have to be to think that's what wins basketball games. You would think the Mavs beating the Heat to win the Finals proves that TEAMS are better than Individuals. Jennings didn't do very well in the Euro's then came here and did pretty good his rookie year. Pau Gasol's stats weren't unbelievable, nor his brothers. Euro leagues play their games like a playoff game every day. If they were in either conference they would make the playoffs.

gwrighter
07-22-2011, 08:14 AM
Do you not think Euro teams do advanced scouting?
They would honestly do very well for you homers out there that believe we are the best at everything. True the NBA players might be more talented but how blind do you have to be to think that's what wins basketball games. You would think the Mavs beating the Heat to win the Finals proves that TEAMS are better than Individuals. Jennings didn't do very well in the Euro's then came here and did pretty good his rookie year. Pau Gasol's stats weren't unbelievable, nor his brothers. Euro leagues play their games like a playoff game every day. If they were in either conference they would make the playoffs.

Currently, Euroleague players know more about NBA players games than vice versa because they idolize players like Kobe, LBJ, Wade, Howard etc. I remember in 2005 when the past euroleague champions Maccabi Tel Aviv came to play the Raptors and beat us. They beat 1 of the worst teams in the NBA by 2, Anthony Parker took a **** on us & everybody was surprised. The reality of the situation is that if those championship teams were to play 82 games in the NBA they would be overmatched. They wouldn't be able to defend well enough to win themselves games. Playing 82 playoff games in a season would be too physically demanding.

edit: Anthony Parker then came to play for the Raptors & he was a serviceable role player at best.

Adam23
07-22-2011, 08:18 AM
[QUOTE=wjmoffatt;18617845]Do you not think Euro teams do advanced scouting?
They would honestly do very well for you homers out there that believe we are the best at everything. True the NBA players might be more talented but how blind do you have to be to think that's what wins basketball games. You would think the Mavs beating the Heat to win the Finals proves that TEAMS are better than Individuals. Jennings didn't do very well in the Euro's then came here and did pretty good his rookie year. Pau Gasol's stats weren't unbelievable, nor his brothers. Euro leagues play their games like a playoff game every day. If they were in either conference they would make the playoffs.[/


USA is the best in basketball, everybody knows that. Of course teams are better than individuals but the nba finals doesnt prove anything. Dallas has good individuals too( everybody underestimated nowitzki...he is a superstar who is generally considered the best european basketball player of all time). The reason jennings didnt conquer europe is because it was the first professional season of his carrier. He went to europe from a us highschool. The gasol brothers were stars in europe prior to their nba carrier. Looks like you have no f.....g clue of what you are talking about. And people in hungary think of this the same way as i do.

Ray_R
07-22-2011, 08:55 AM
Sub .500.
One game vs the best NBA team
NBA rules- Rape
Euro rules- Close but NBA takes it.

NYKalltheway
07-22-2011, 09:31 AM
Send ANY NBA team against LAST YEAR'S Panathinaikos, and they'll all LOSE. We are currently under some serious makeover as there's apparently not much funds left for the team so some players are leaving and will be replaced by lesser ones, so it's not fair to assess last year's team vs current NBA teams and compare.

Easily a Top 10 team in the NBA under normal basketball rules (ie FIBA rules)

No NBA team can play here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

Hellcrooner
07-22-2011, 09:36 AM
Sub .500.
One game vs the best NBA team
NBA rules- Rape
Euro rules- Close but NBA takes it.

barcelona beat lakers last season with mixed rules..... just saying,....

oh and both teams were in preseason and kobe, pau and etc played starters minutes in the game, nowhere to hide with excuses.


id like a mavs vs panathinaikos game this year.

NYKalltheway
07-22-2011, 09:49 AM
id like a mavs vs panathinaikos game this year.

No Drew, no Fotsis, perhaps no Sato... not really worth it. Just like 2007 when we went with an overhaul after winning again and didn't adapt to NBA rules with less than 2 weeks of practicing with new guys (Jasikevicius, Perperoglou, Winston etc)

There should be a tournament in late June imo. Mixed rules, one game in USA, other in Europe and aggreggate wins "World Championship" or something... Having it in the next season is quite unfair and doesn't really determine if that's the better team

NYKalltheway
07-22-2011, 09:57 AM
They would probably be one of the worst teams. They might be a pretty decent team in general, but playing 82 games vs. the top talent in the world would take a toll on their nightly performance. Especially with the advanced scouting NBA teams do.

You do realize that Panathinaikos has the best coach in the world and his assistant is one of the best scouts/assistant coaches in the world and NBA scouts ask for his advice...

Heat4life06
07-22-2011, 10:06 AM
they would probably be around 20-62 and be overwhelmed with all the superstar players

NYKalltheway
07-22-2011, 10:07 AM
can someone lock this thread please.... It's getting ridiculous with the "pride" and ignorance around here/

kozelkid
07-22-2011, 10:35 AM
can someone lock this thread please.... It's getting ridiculous with the "pride" and ignorance around here/

You are just as bad as any "US homer". Don't kid yourself.
It's a good thread for discussion.

Adam23
07-22-2011, 11:19 AM
look who's talkin' NYKalltheway

alencp3
07-22-2011, 11:41 AM
probably around 2-80, and those 2 wins against raptors

NYKalltheway
07-22-2011, 11:47 AM
probably around 2-80, and those 2 wins against raptors

didn't expect anything better coming from a guy who VMd me out of the blue calling me a "f-ing Greek" :rolleyes:

It's good for discussion, kozelkid, but 99% of the people here have never seen Panathinaikos play... It's good for discussion in Europe where people know both sets of the game, in an American forum all you'll see is "they'll be lucky to lose by only 40pts" and that kind of stuff...

NYKalltheway
07-22-2011, 11:52 AM
If you wanna compare the teams... Well, you can't.

Panathinaikos has a 11-12 man roster rotation. Top NBA teams have 6-7 man rotations. Not even close. Panathinaikos can beat EVERY NBA team in Greece. Not 100% of the times, but you cannot say that Panathinaikos cannot beat all teams at least once. I can argue that we could beat at least 25 NBA teams with ease in "the temple" and face hard trouble against the top 5 NBA teams.

Also you need to consider what set of rules you'll be using. Under mixed rules, it's all unknown. Under NBA rules, Panathinaikos doesn't have much chance against the top teams and would be 50-50 against the worst 5-8 teams. Under FIBA rules Panathinaikos will not lose a single game in Greece and beat most of the below 0.500 teams in the USA as well...
Panathinaikos were a better team than the Barcelona team that beat the Lakers, and that Barcelona team was really really stacked.

valade16
07-22-2011, 11:52 AM
I don't think they'd do as bad as the NBA homers say but nowhere near as good as the Euro homers say.

NYKalltheway - you seriously think not a single team in the NBA would've beat last years panathinaikos??! Really? They'd go 82-0 would they? They're 10 full games better than the '96 Bulls?

And your complaining about others homerism :rolleyes:

And Hellcrooner - yes the Lakers lost, but is that really a surprise? The Lakers are notorious for not trying during large stretches of the NBA season, and that matters. Is it any surprise they weren't really trying in a friendly game...

I think Panathinaikos could make the playoffs in the East, they might be the 10th seed in the West just due to the incredible depth of that league.

Another factor to consider is conditioning. How many games does a Panathinaikos player play a year? Is it close to 82 + playoffs?

NYKalltheway
07-22-2011, 11:54 AM
I don't think they'd do as bad as the NBA homers say but nowhere near as good as the Euro homers say.

NYKalltheway - you seriously think not a single team in the NBA would've beat last years panathinaikos??! Really? They'd go 82-0 would they? They're 10 full games better than the '96 Bulls?

And your complaining about others homerism :rolleyes:

Comprehension101, you need to get back to that class... Where did I say Panathinaikos would go 82-0?? :confused: :confused:

As for the games, it's not nearly as close but it's better for the game. These players would rather play 82 meaningless games and 30 Playoff Games rather than 50 meaningful games in 3 different competitions for 3 different trophies if it was up to them and their fatigue.

You also need to factor that these players unlike the NBA players have (extra painful) practice sessions twice a day, 2 hours each session, 5-6 days a week... I think NBA players have it easier if you wanna take the full details of conditioning as well ;)

valade16
07-22-2011, 12:43 PM
Comprehension101, you need to get back to that class... Where did I say Panathinaikos would go 82-0?? :confused: :confused:

As for the games, it's not nearly as close but it's better for the game. These players would rather play 82 meaningless games and 30 Playoff Games rather than 50 meaningful games in 3 different competitions for 3 different trophies if it was up to them and their fatigue.

You also need to factor that these players unlike the NBA players have (extra painful) practice sessions twice a day, 2 hours each session, 5-6 days a week... I think NBA players have it easier if you wanna take the full details of conditioning as well ;)

I'm sorry, I mistook you saying no one would win in Greece as no one would beat them. That's still a pretty bold statement however...

I genuinely didn't know how many games they played so I figured I'd ask. I know they are not nearly as bad as many NBA fans make out, but to say they'd be anything more than a playoff contender-good team (i.e. saying they'd be favorites to win the title or any of that) is a bit extreme. Most of their players, if good enough, get called to head over here.

A perfect example is Rudy Fernandez. Here he is a complementary role player and over there he was a league MVP who was offered the largest contract ever for a player in the Spanish league. team overcomes talent, but only to such a degree.

My HS team playing as a "team" would get wiped the floor by a bunch of NBA players paying selfishly...

NYKalltheway
07-22-2011, 12:54 PM
Thing is, it's not HS teams vs NBA selfish players... (you in HS? :p )

There are many players that are NBA calibre players that DO NOT WANT to join the NBA.

Antonis Fotsis for starters. Joined the NBA as an immature kid (still is :D ) and he's one of the most complete PFs in the world. Great rebounder, amazing 3pt shooter, good post game and quite good defense.
Dimitris Diamantidis, arguably the best player in Europe, has stated many times that he has no interest in joining the NBA.
Drew Nicholas, was considered a bit undersized for SG and not a great passer for PG. In the European game the coach adapts to the player he has, he does not adapt PG-SG etc vague positional roles just because it's the textbook way of basketball. Teams use 3 guards at the same time many times during the game. Drew Nicholas was a great scorer in college but in the NBA he never had the chance because of his size. He's a great shooter, decent slasher and has developed his defensive game greatly after joining the team 3 years ago.
Mike Batiste... started off as a SF because he could hit an occasional jumper, and at PAO he was transformed into a lethal PF/C, one of the best in Europe. In the NBA he'd be a SF with no future...

There's many more. You just can't say that the players would be scrubs in the NBA. The NBA does not give the chance to players. They only want to use 5-6 players, give them heavy minutes, while the others just exist. And they don't get enough practice sessions so that the coach can develop their skills or see what they can do...

It's not about being selfish or not, it's about playing well and play according to your strengths and tackle your opponent's weaknesses.

Same way you can say that these players wouldn't make it in the NBA, I could counter and say that guys who are 8th to 15th choice at their NBA team would be quite bad in Europe.
I'd take depth with a great coach over 1-2 superstar players that can hit 40 in 36 minutes anytime. And that's what wins games under normal basketball rules where traveling is called, where fouls are normal and not sissy and where teams are allowed to play proper defense...

Klivlend
07-22-2011, 12:57 PM
Send ANY NBA team against LAST YEAR'S Panathinaikos, and they'll all LOSE. We are currently under some serious makeover as there's apparently not much funds left for the team so some players are leaving and will be replaced by lesser ones, so it's not fair to assess last year's team vs current NBA teams and compare.

Easily a Top 10 team in the NBA under normal basketball rules (ie FIBA rules)

No NBA team can play here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

This is freaking awesome!

ILMindState
07-22-2011, 01:00 PM
Never seen them play but Euroleague is no joke. I wouldn't be surprised if they made the playoffs in either league.

gwrighter
07-22-2011, 01:04 PM
You do realize that Panathinaikos has the best coach in the world and his assistant is one of the best scouts/assistant coaches in the world and NBA scouts ask for his advice...

Thats what i'm saying. NBA teams have little to no scouting reports on Panathinaikos, thus giving a large advantage to the Greek team. If they were to play in the NBA, NBA teams would then scout that team more in depth & limit the advantage.

Foye
07-22-2011, 01:10 PM
Send ANY NBA team against LAST YEAR'S Panathinaikos, and they'll all LOSE. We are currently under some serious makeover as there's apparently not much funds left for the team so some players are leaving and will be replaced by lesser ones, so it's not fair to assess last year's team vs current NBA teams and compare.

Easily a Top 10 team in the NBA under normal basketball rules (ie FIBA rules)

No NBA team can play here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

You're a homer. :facepalm:
Teams would have trouble playing in Athens but in the end quality wins. And most NBA teams have by far more quality than Panathinaikos. They would win 25-30 games at most.

theheatles
07-22-2011, 01:13 PM
panathinaikos would be the worst team in the nba hands down

Adam23
07-22-2011, 02:54 PM
didn't expect anything better coming from a guy who VMd me out of the blue calling me a "f-ing Greek" :rolleyes:

It's good for discussion, kozelkid, but 99% of the people here have never seen Panathinaikos play... It's good for discussion in Europe where people know both sets of the game, in an American forum all you'll see is "they'll be lucky to lose by only 40pts" and that kind of stuff...

I beg your pardon but I am not american, I am from hungary and I posted the same thread on a hungarian forum in our language and the answers seem to be similar to the answers given by americans in this forum.

Adam23
07-22-2011, 02:56 PM
looks like you are the one who does not have a clue about basketball NYKalltheway

NYKalltheway
07-22-2011, 03:24 PM
So Hungarians who have a sub-par basketball league and their only choice of basketball is the NBA are considered as good judges as Spanish, Italians, Greeks, Serbians, Slovenians, Lithuanians, Russians, Turks, Croatians etc who have European basketball as their #1 priority in terms of basketball? Please...

I never said that Panathinaikos would take the league by storm. You need to factor the rules as well. Under FIBA rules, Panathinaikos, in Athens, cannot lose easily. Whoever faces them. In 2006 more than half that Greece team that beat the star US team was from Panathinaikos.

Global basketball fans know that Panathinaikos or Barcelona or CSKA Moscow would pose a serious threat in the NBA if the same rules applied to all teams. If you keep measuring a team's quality by "predicting" wins, well sorry, feel free to express your opinion. Doesn't mean much. Whenever teams faced under mixed rules, the NBA teams faced too much trouble. And no NBA team has played in Athens before, so we can't really judge. Many NBA players have stated that they'd feel intimidated in Athens or Belgrade atmosphere. Or guys like Byron Scott, Dominique Wilkins, Dino Radja etc have said that it's much harder to play with all that noise around you and when you feel the hatred against you...

You cannot estimate how Panathinaikos would fare in the NBA. Nor can you estimate how the Lakers or Mavericks would fare in the European system playing in the Spanish league + Euroleague for example.

NBA teams are not deep. That counts more than anything in Europe.

njolakoski
07-22-2011, 03:36 PM
I don't think they'll be the worst team, nor one of the best teams, they'd be a middle of the road team. If they played in the Western Conference, they wouldn't make the playoffs. If they played in the Eastern Conference, then that's a different story, I can see them getting a seeding anywhere from 6-8 and maybe 5th.

tredigs
07-22-2011, 03:47 PM
If you wanna compare the teams... Well, you can't.

Panathinaikos has a 11-12 man roster rotation. Top NBA teams have 6-7 man rotations. Not even close. Panathinaikos can beat EVERY NBA team in Greece. Not 100% of the times, but you cannot say that Panathinaikos cannot beat all teams at least once. I can argue that we could beat at least 25 NBA teams with ease in "the temple" and face hard trouble against the top 5 NBA teams.

Also you need to consider what set of rules you'll be using. Under mixed rules, it's all unknown. Under NBA rules, Panathinaikos doesn't have much chance against the top teams and would be 50-50 against the worst 5-8 teams. Under FIBA rules Panathinaikos will not lose a single game in Greece and beat most of the below 0.500 teams in the USA as well...
Panathinaikos were a better team than the Barcelona team that beat the Lakers, and that Barcelona team was really really stacked.

This statement right here alone proves you do not know a thing about NBA basketball my man.

Your homerism of European ball is out of control.

Adam23
07-22-2011, 04:26 PM
So Hungarians who have a sub-par basketball league and their only choice of basketball is the NBA are considered as good judges as Spanish, Italians, Greeks, Serbians, Slovenians, Lithuanians, Russians, Turks, Croatians etc who have European basketball as their #1 priority in terms of basketball? Please...

I never said that Panathinaikos would take the league by storm. You need to factor the rules as well. Under FIBA rules, Panathinaikos, in Athens, cannot lose easily. Whoever faces them. In 2006 more than half that Greece team that beat the star US team was from Panathinaikos.

Global basketball fans know that Panathinaikos or Barcelona or CSKA Moscow would pose a serious threat in the NBA if the same rules applied to all teams. If you keep measuring a team's quality by "predicting" wins, well sorry, feel free to express your opinion. Doesn't mean much. Whenever teams faced under mixed rules, the NBA teams faced too much trouble. And no NBA team has played in Athens before, so we can't really judge. Many NBA players have stated that they'd feel intimidated in Athens or Belgrade atmosphere. Or guys like Byron Scott, Dominique Wilkins, Dino Radja etc have said that it's much harder to play with all that noise around you and when you feel the hatred against you...

You cannot estimate how Panathinaikos would fare in the NBA. Nor can you estimate how the Lakers or Mavericks would fare in the European system playing in the Spanish league + Euroleague for example.

NBA teams are not deep. That counts more than anything in Europe.

Just because we have a subpar league does not mean we know less about basketball than you. I have seen euroleague games as well. The US lost to greece in one game. Anything can happen in one game. In a best of 4 series everybody knows that team usa would never lose, no matter what players they assemble. Their pool of talent is just so deep. By the way that usa team was young and inexperienced playing together. So was the one last summer but it doesnt happen everyday that the usa can be beaten in basketball, no matter which age group we are talking about.

NYKalltheway
07-22-2011, 04:28 PM
Well, if you followed European basketball you'd realize that what the NBA has is small rotations. The rest of the players (for the majority of the teams always, not all of them!!!) are just there to exist. They offer almost nothing to their teams.

It's sort of an extreme thing to say, but realistically it's 8-9 man rotations for most teams. On the contrary, in Europe you won't see people being stuck on the bench just because their name is not known enough... Plus, most NBA scrubs that go to Europe become average players. I'd rather have a team with 11-12 very good players for European standards than 5-6 great players and 6-7 average/below average players.

From the Mavericks: Cardinal, Haywood, Stephenson, Mahimni would not make the 12man team. And Dallas Mavs are pretty stacked. Haywood is 50-50, but I'd personally take the other 3 guys ahead of him.

From the Heat only Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Haslem and perhaps Big Z would make the team.

From the Lakers, Barnes, Blake, Caracter, Ebanks, Trey Johnson, Walton (Sh. Brown is fa but not him either) would make the team.

From the Celtics Sasha Pavlovic, Rondo(yeah him, not good enough for FIBA ball), Bradley, Troy Murphy, Wafer, Arroyo, Delonte West would not make the team. Rondo would be 3rd string PG actually but he's really not better than Nick Calathes at this point...

From the Bulls Taj Gibson, Bogans, CJ Watson, Pargo, Korver at least, would not make the team...

Just because you don't know the Panathinaikos roster or haven't seen them play, does not mean they are worse than some NBA "stars".

Some highlights from last season.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3YTXL2pRdE Nick Calathes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfTUmFWjvN0 Dimitris Diamantidis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLvMzvfjR7w Romain Sato
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sED-SVe66Ew Drew Nicholas

there's lots more worthy players like Tsartsaris, Batiste, Maric, Fotsis, Kaimakoglou, Perperoglou etc

Just because you don't know them doesn't make me blind...

You just need to realize that the European game is not comparable with the NBA. Different rules, different game/

Hellcrooner
07-22-2011, 04:31 PM
I'm sorry, I mistook you saying no one would win in Greece as no one would beat them. That's still a pretty bold statement however...

I genuinely didn't know how many games they played so I figured I'd ask. I know they are not nearly as bad as many NBA fans make out, but to say they'd be anything more than a playoff contender-good team (i.e. saying they'd be favorites to win the title or any of that) is a bit extreme. Most of their players, if good enough, get called to head over here.

A perfect example is Rudy Fernandez. Here he is a complementary role player and over there he was a league MVP who was offered the largest contract ever for a player in the Spanish league. team overcomes talent, but only to such a degree.

My HS team playing as a "team" would get wiped the floor by a bunch of NBA players paying selfishly...
lets see what happens in dallas with rudy.

VRP723
07-22-2011, 04:37 PM
I'm far from the most knowledgeable of NBA fans, but you said Rondo couldn't make the team and posted this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3YTXL2pRdE

From what I saw, that guy isn't in Rondo's universe. He's half as fast.

tredigs
07-22-2011, 04:42 PM
I'm far from the most knowledgeable of NBA fans, but you said Rondo couldn't make the team and posted this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3YTXL2pRdE

From what I saw, that guy isn't in Rondo's universe. He's half as fast.


I was shocked enough by his comments to watch the video, then just started laughing. The guy is clueless.

NYKalltheway
07-22-2011, 04:43 PM
I'm far from the most knowledgeable of NBA fans, but you said Rondo couldn't make the team and posted this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3YTXL2pRdE

From what I saw, that guy isn't in Rondo's universe. He's half as fast.

Half as fast? So?

Better shooter
Similar passer
Better defender

So Rondo runs faster...

Adam23
07-22-2011, 04:48 PM
Well, if you followed European basketball you'd realize that what the NBA has is small rotations. The rest of the players (for the majority of the teams always, not all of them!!!) are just there to exist. They offer almost nothing to their teams.

It's sort of an extreme thing to say, but realistically it's 8-9 man rotations for most teams. On the contrary, in Europe you won't see people being stuck on the bench just because their name is not known enough... Plus, most NBA scrubs that go to Europe become average players. I'd rather have a team with 11-12 very good players for European standards than 5-6 great players and 6-7 average/below average players.

From the Mavericks: Cardinal, Haywood, Stephenson, Mahimni would not make the 12man team. And Dallas Mavs are pretty stacked. Haywood is 50-50, but I'd personally take the other 3 guys ahead of him.

From the Heat only Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Haslem and perhaps Big Z would make the team.

From the Lakers, Barnes, Blake, Caracter, Ebanks, Trey Johnson, Walton (Sh. Brown is fa but not him either) would make the team.

From the Celtics Sasha Pavlovic, Rondo(yeah him, not good enough for FIBA ball), Bradley, Troy Murphy, Wafer, Arroyo, Delonte West would not make the team. Rondo would be 3rd string PG actually but he's really not better than Nick Calathes at this point...

From the Bulls Taj Gibson, Bogans, CJ Watson, Pargo, Korver at least, would not make the team...

Just because you don't know the Panathinaikos roster or haven't seen them play, does not mean they are worse than some NBA "stars".

Some highlights from last season.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3YTXL2pRdE Nick Calathes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfTUmFWjvN0 Dimitris Diamantidis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLvMzvfjR7w Romain Sato
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sED-SVe66Ew Drew Nicholas

there's lots more worthy players like Tsartsaris, Batiste, Maric, Fotsis, Kaimakoglou, Perperoglou etc

Just because you don't know them doesn't make me blind...

You just need to realize that the European game is not comparable with the NBA. Different rules, different game/
Below average nba players are usually above average players in europe. If this is not the situation than it is no surprise the given player is an ex-nba player,no team in the nba needs a player like that. Greek teams would f...k themselves if a player like rondo joined them or many others you mentioned above. Most stars in europe simply suck when they join the nba. But no point in arguing with you, you dont know **** about basketball.

NYKalltheway
07-22-2011, 04:52 PM
You still fail to realize that the European game is different. There's no such thing as a "star" in Europe. I'm not saying that Rondo is a bad player, I'm saying that the current PLAYMAKERS (there's no such thing as a PG in Europe anymore) are better fits for the team. Rondo is not a better fit than Calathes. His passing is not that much better and his offensive game is much worse overall. And Calathes is one of the best man defenders I've seen in a while, while Rondo is a great defender as well, but imo not as great. Those who watched Calathes with the Gators should expect a much better end product than what they've last seen.

Adam23, how many times have you watched Panathinaikos last season really???

naps
07-22-2011, 05:01 PM
can someone lock this thread please.... It's getting ridiculous with the "pride" and ignorance around here/


lmao! You think you are better? You are just as bad if not worse.

Hellcrooner
07-22-2011, 05:03 PM
theres no rule.

Ronny seikaly very good in nba sucked in europe
Wilkins star in nba star in europe
Iverson star in nba sucked in europe
Raja bell Sucked in europe became good in Nba
trahan langdom sucked in nba became a star in europe
Jasikevicius star in europe sucked in nba
Gasol star in europe star in nba.
Dirk was absolutely Nothing in europe playing in a third division team, went to a summer thing in usa and then become a star.
Jennings sucked in europe doing fine ( some would say star) in nba.


theres no pattern.

It needs to be said tough that euro players that go to nba are not given half the chances to prove what they are worht than americans, and they have to work TWICE as hard for a third of the recognision from coaches and 2000 times as hard to get 10% the recognition from Fans.

gwrighter
07-22-2011, 05:09 PM
theres no pattern.

It needs to be said tough that euro players that go to nba are not given half the chances to prove what they are worht than americans, and they have to work TWICE as hard for a third of the recognision from coaches and 2000 times as hard to get 10% the recognition from Fans.

I agree with what you stated in this paragraph. I think European players are dogged in the NBA mainly because of their inability to play defence long enough to warrant them extra time on the floor to prove themselves. There are of course exceptions like Marc Gasol, Tony Parker, Pietrus, Turiaf etc.

Hellcrooner
07-22-2011, 05:11 PM
I agree with what you stated in this paragraph. I think European players are dogged in the NBA mainly because of their inability to play defence long enough to warrant them extra time on the floor to prove themselves.

what you call inability i call addaptation.

they have to transition from a system where the TEAM deffends all at once with zone and strategy to a "system" that consists in One on one defense.

Adam23
07-22-2011, 05:11 PM
You still fail to realize that the European game is different. There's no such thing as a "star" in Europe. I'm not saying that Rondo is a bad player, I'm saying that the current PLAYMAKERS (there's no such thing as a PG in Europe anymore) are better fits for the team. Rondo is not a better fit than Calathes. His passing is not that much better and his offensive game is much worse overall. And Calathes is one of the best man defenders I've seen in a while, while Rondo is a great defender as well, but imo not as great. Those who watched Calathes with the Gators should expect a much better end product than what they've last seen.

Adam23, how many times have you watched Panathinaikos last season really???

Ive watched the final four. I prefer the nba more. I usually like to watch the best a sport has to offer and in basketball thats the nba...and of course the olympics and world championships. Euroleague is a little boring in my opinion. But i watch it now and than as well as ncaa basketball. Im not saying ncaa is better than euroleague but at least it is more entertaining. And since i study at a university it is nice to see how the best college students in the world play it.

valade16
07-22-2011, 05:13 PM
lets see what happens in dallas with rudy.

I hope he does well, he was one of my favorite Blazers, and Coach Nate didn't really run a system conducive to Rudy's style, but fact remains, Rudy is not by any means one of the better players in the League yet in Europe he was being offered "superstar" money...

Hellcrooner
07-22-2011, 05:15 PM
as for the question asked.

An euroleague top team ( panathinaikos, Barcelona, Maccabi, Cska) playing with mixed rules

in the west woudl miss the playoffs, in teh east woudl make one of the last seeds

record anywhere between 30 to 48 wins deppending on conference.

playing with FIBA rules they woudl make the playoffs in BOTH conferecens record between 38 to 52 wins.

playing with nba rules, one of the worst in the west and barely miss in east 25 to 35 wins.

NYKalltheway
07-22-2011, 05:16 PM
That's your preference Adam and nobody will attack you for that.

The Final Four was pathetic this season mostly because only the two finalists were worth being there. Barcelona deserved a spot there too and it'd make things more interesting. Guess the win counts :p

The Barcelona-Panathinaikos QF playoffs were imo the best basketball spectacle of the season globally and even if Crooner's team lost, I think he'd agree with me on that.

Still, you can't call the NCAA the best college students. There are many high school and college students in Europe/South America that play for professional teams. There's no particular league for college students as it's free market/free world so if you deserve to be in the pro's from age 16 you'll be there... Not everyone goes to the USA to study or play basketball. Even the UK has good college players, even if it has a pathetic basketball league.

Hellcrooner
07-22-2011, 05:16 PM
I hope he does well, he was one of my favorite Blazers, and Coach Nate didn't really run a system conducive to Rudy's style, but fact remains, Rudy is not by any means one of the better players in the League yet in Europe he was being offered "superstar" money...

yep he has not been one of leagues best in blazers.


But i have faith in history repeating.

Remember that Croatian "role player" that barely saw playing time in portland and vocally asked out?

Hope rudy stays away from cars tough :p

valade16
07-22-2011, 05:19 PM
yep he has not been one of leagues best in blazers.


But i have faith in history repeating.

Remember that Croatian "role player" that barely saw playing time in portland and vocally asked out?

Hope rudy stays away from cars tough :p

I remember him well, he graces the Blazers history under "what could've been" with Walton, Oden, Sabonis, and Jermaine O'Neal"...

Adam23
07-22-2011, 05:22 PM
theres no rule.

Ronny seikaly very good in nba sucked in europe
Wilkins star in nba star in europe
Iverson star in nba sucked in europe
Raja bell Sucked in europe became good in Nba
trahan langdom sucked in nba became a star in europe
Jasikevicius star in europe sucked in nba
Gasol star in europe star in nba.
Dirk was absolutely Nothing in europe playing in a third division team, went to a summer thing in usa and then become a star.
Jennings sucked in europe doing fine ( some would say star) in nba.


theres no pattern.

It needs to be said tough that euro players that go to nba are not given half the chances to prove what they are worht than americans, and they have to work TWICE as hard for a third of the recognision from coaches and 2000 times as hard to get 10% the recognition from Fans.

Nobody sucks who makes the nba. There are only players who are too young when in europe but are great prospects. But most are 'stars'. On the other hand if a player leaves the nba means(most of the times) he cant perform on the same level he used to because he is way past his prime or was injured a lot.

NYKalltheway
07-22-2011, 05:26 PM
Adam, you're defending a league that has Scalabrine, Cardinal and quite a number of scrubs in its ranks, remember that :D

theheatles
07-22-2011, 06:27 PM
lol all these panathinaikos players, they either went undrafted or were 2nd rounders... and L O fcking L at nick calathes, he's a poor mans jj reddick at best...theres a reason why he went to greece instead of going to the spurs camp...and the money in greece sucks compared to NBA money..the best players make like $3 million euros a year

Hellcrooner
07-22-2011, 07:58 PM
lol all these panathinaikos players, they either went undrafted or were 2nd rounders... and L O fcking L at nick calathes, he's a poor mans jj reddick at best...theres a reason why he went to greece instead of going to the spurs camp...and the money in greece sucks compared to NBA money..the best players make like $3 million euros a year

wich equates around 9 million dollars, since its euros and taxes are paid for them.

alencp3
07-22-2011, 08:24 PM
didn't expect anything better coming from a guy who VMd me out of the blue calling me a "f-ing Greek" :rolleyes:

It's good for discussion, kozelkid, but 99% of the people here have never seen Panathinaikos play... It's good for discussion in Europe where people know both sets of the game, in an American forum all you'll see is "they'll be lucky to lose by only 40pts" and that kind of stuff...

dude no one can have a proper conversation with you and your homerism

lakers4sho
07-22-2011, 08:50 PM
I think they'd be a middle of the pack team. Definitely would make playoffs in the East. The West right now is stacked so at best they'd be 7-8 seed if lucky. I think they can beat any NBA team on any given night. I mean, the Cavs beat the Lakers last year after losing to them by 55 pr so. So anything can happen during the regular season. But in a 7-game series it'll be tough to crack the top teams especially under NBA rules. Plus, the ridiculous amount of superstar treatment would be to PAO's disadvantage.

I like the European style of basketball though. Less emphasis on the individual and more on the team aspect of the sport.

Korman12
07-22-2011, 09:09 PM
It all depends upon the pace. Can't judge for sure, but if the team is adjusting to NBA pace, they would be in a different realm. It's all too hypothetical for me to be sure.

evadatam5150
07-22-2011, 09:22 PM
barcelona beat lakers last season with mixed rules..... just saying,....

oh and both teams were in preseason and kobe, pau and etc played starters minutes in the game, nowhere to hide with excuses.


id like a mavs vs panathinaikos game this year.

You Euro Homers absolutely crack me up.. I watched the entire game and the Lakers played like any other team in the preseason.. Which is to say with little to NO interest what so ever.. It was barely watchable in all truth and not because of the stifling defense the Euro team put forth (Sarcasm)...

In truth the Euro teams would be mid to sub par in a complete NBA season against NBA teams.. Obviously it's simply my humble opinion.. :D

SportsFanatic10
07-23-2011, 01:16 AM
i think they'd surprise some people. my guess would be boarderline playoff team fighting for a 7 or 8 seed.

MrfadeawayJB
07-23-2011, 01:44 AM
Send ANY NBA team against LAST YEAR'S Panathinaikos, and they'll all LOSE. We are currently under some serious makeover as there's apparently not much funds left for the team so some players are leaving and will be replaced by lesser ones, so it's not fair to assess last year's team vs current NBA teams and compare.

Easily a Top 10 team in the NBA under normal basketball rules (ie FIBA rules)

No NBA team can play here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtWbTZbfkI8

OMG were they setting things on fire lol :speechless:

MrfadeawayJB
07-23-2011, 02:06 AM
Half as fast? So?

Better shooter
Similar passer
Better defender

So Rondo runs faster...

I remember watching Calathes when he was in college. He was a good player on florida. Not even a great player, thats why he never got drafted. A guy like Calathes has a better opportunity in Europe because the money is tax free, and he looks good on that team. In the NBA he would be exposed on a nightly basis, like he was in college at times. Calathes is a good european player.


Below average nba players are usually above average players in europe. If this is not the situation than it is no surprise the given player is an ex-nba player,no team in the nba needs a player like that. Greek teams would f...k themselves if a player like rondo joined them or many others you mentioned above. Most stars in europe simply suck when they join the nba. But no point in arguing with you, you dont know **** about basketball.


This. If a player is good enough, most will go to the NBA. Yes the atmosphere can be better in some euroleague games, but nothing compares to winning a NBA Championship. Some players may choose to stay in Europe to protect thier reputation, as they dont want to be exposed in the NBA for what they really are. Bottom tier NBA players (not talking about Scalabrine or Cardinal, they are there for cheerleading :) ), but rather Daniel Gibson, Anthony Parker, etc. could be very good in euroleague.


lol all these panathinaikos players, they either went undrafted or were 2nd rounders... and L O fcking L at nick calathes, he's a poor mans jj reddick at best...theres a reason why he went to greece instead of going to the spurs camp...and the money in greece sucks compared to NBA money..the best players make like $3 million euros a year

money would be better there than in the NBA for Calathes. He can have a long prosperous career in europe, while in the NBA i'd be suprised if he was on a roster 2-3 years down the road.

theheatles
07-23-2011, 02:58 PM
wich equates around 9 million dollars, since its euros and taxes are paid for them.

lol no...it equates to $4.5 million and it is taxed by greece... so its like $2.8 million a year

http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/dont_mess_with_taxes/2010/09/greeces-professional-athletes-now-must-pay-their-own-taxes.html

RevisIsland
07-23-2011, 03:00 PM
I don't know enough about euroleague basketball, but it'd definitely be interesting to see. I don't think they'd do too well though, because it was a big deal with Olympiacos signed Josh Childress and he's only a borderline rotation guy. I just don't think their quality of players stack up to ours.

Hellcrooner
07-23-2011, 03:55 PM
lol no...it equates to $4.5 million and it is taxed by greece... so its like $2.8 million a year

http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/dont_mess_with_taxes/2010/09/greeces-professional-athletes-now-must-pay-their-own-taxes.html

no

AMERICAN PLAYER has a salary of 9 million dollars.

HE has to pay his taxes, so in the end the player earns around 4,5 million dollars.


Player in Europe ahs a 3 million euros salary

3 million = 4,5 million dollars .

TEAM PAYS his taxes so he earns the 4,5 million dollars in full.
( with the new normative who is only active in GREECE , greek teams will simply give the money for the taxes to the player under the table shake shake deal , but anyway spanish, italian and russians team willl go on doing it like always and paying the taxes.)

thats why if a player is offered 3 millions in europe it is the SAME that a player gets a 9 million dollars offer in usa.

thanks for playing tough

GoPacers33
07-23-2011, 03:56 PM
Below 500

theheatles
07-23-2011, 04:12 PM
no

AMERICAN PLAYER has a salary of 9 million dollars.

HE has to pay his taxes, so in the end the player earns around 4,5 million dollars.


Player in Europe ahs a 3 million euros salary

3 million = 4,5 million dollars .

TEAM PAYS his taxes so he earns the 4,5 million dollars in full.
( with the new normative who is only active in GREECE , greek teams will simply give the money for the taxes to the player under the table shake shake deal , but anyway spanish, italian and russians team willl go on doing it like always and paying the taxes.)

thats why if a player is offered 3 millions in europe it is the SAME that a player gets a 9 million dollars offer in usa.

thanks for playing tough

wtf r u talking about, they have to pay taxes, you would have been right if we were arguing 3 yrs ago but siht changed and the greece economy collapsed and players NOW have to pay taxes on their salaries...so nice try but your wrong


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/sports/basketball/26iht-BASKET.html

here's a new york times article if the other 1 wasn't credible enough for your liking..

not only are the clubs not paying for taxes but taxes doubled and now players have to pay

Hellcrooner
07-23-2011, 04:16 PM
wtf r u talking about, they have to pay taxes, you would have been right if we were arguing 3 yrs ago but siht changed and the greece economy collapsed and players NOW have to pay taxes on their salaries...so nice try but your wrong

im not talking bout greece im talking about EUROPE, wich has many more countrys than greece.

spanish, italian , turkish and russian teams still pay the taxes of the players so they get the 100% of what the salary is.

NYKalltheway
07-23-2011, 05:34 PM
wtf r u talking about, they have to pay taxes, you would have been right if we were arguing 3 yrs ago but siht changed and the greece economy collapsed and players NOW have to pay taxes on their salaries...so nice try but your wrong


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/sports/basketball/26iht-BASKET.html

here's a new york times article if the other 1 wasn't credible enough for your liking..

not only are the clubs not paying for taxes but taxes doubled and now players have to pay

Players don't pay taxes in Greece... Teams do. But the tax rate has gone up to 45% so there's less money spent by the teams, nothing to do with the players paying taxes. They just agree on a deal and get much less as it goes on taxes, is that really hard to comprehend?


Here's another change:

“Now teams will be asking the players to contribute to their living costs,” Stefanou said. “If the players want a bigger house, they will have to pay for it themselves.”

House rents and cars are provided by the teams. They used to be luxurious, now they're kind of 'whatever'.

Greece has doubled the taxation, the teams still pay for the taxes.

example:
If a team had a $1m contract to pay, it'd be paying $1.2m before 2010-11 season. Now they pay $1,45m. The player still gets $1m. So the team doesn't wanna pay $1.45m so they don't offer the players $1m deals but $800k so that they still give out around $1.2m rather than $1.45m due to heavy taxation...

P.S:

2010-11 European champion was Panathinaikos paying 45% taxation per player having one of the largest budgets in Europe (with almost half of that going to taxes!!). The owners have $5bn profit every year, they're not affected by the crisis that much

theheatles
07-23-2011, 05:39 PM
Players don't pay taxes in Greece... Teams do. But the tax rate has gone up to 45% so there's less money spent by the teams, nothing to do with the players paying taxes. They just agree on a deal and get much less as it goes on taxes, is that really hard to comprehend?


Here's another change:


House rents and cars are provided by the teams. They used to be luxurious, now they're kind of 'whatever'.

Greece has doubled the taxation, the teams still pay for the taxes.

example:
If a team had a $1m contract to pay, it'd be paying $1.2m before 2010-11 season. Now they pay $1,45m. The player still gets $1m. So the team doesn't wanna pay $1.45m so they don't offer the players $1m deals but $800k so that they still give out around $1.2m rather than $1.45m due to heavy taxation...

the players and teams both pay taxes...you can justify it in however terms you want but bottom line the players wind up paying taxes

NYKalltheway
07-23-2011, 05:53 PM
The players are taxed.. The contract that is published is the after-taxes version///

IndiansFan337
07-23-2011, 05:59 PM
How would panathinaikos (euroleague champion) do in the nba?

Horribly. There's a reason the players on their team are not in the NBA.

PAOboston
07-23-2011, 06:27 PM
the nba game and the euro game are soooo drastically different. even though i'm a diehard pao fan, a lot of the nba teams would beat pao (not all though). i think theyd'g give a lot of teams a run for their money. but the nba teams are just too athletic/talented for pao to dominate the way they do in europe. pao, like a lot of euro teams, just play a different brand of basketball that focuses a lot on the team concept. for example, you dont see as lot of lebron ball (i.e. give me the ball and i'll dribble till the shot clock goes till 5, then i'll driv, etc). it's a much more team based concept which i find very entertaining.

unfortunately though for pao, the economic crisis is starting to take a toll on the most successful euro bball team in the past decade. even last year's team i thought was slightly weaker than previous pao squads. next year is gonna be a huge drop off. shame really. but they still have diamantidis and as long as he is on the team with coach obradovic, they got a shot at anything.

NYKalltheway
07-23-2011, 06:27 PM
Horribly. There's a reason the players on their team are not in the NBA.

seriously, if ignorance was lethal, PSD wouldn't have as many active users...

I can't be bothered to find the quotes from NBA scouts, random NBA and NCAA coaches, former and active NBA players, Greg Popovich etc about Panathinaikos coach and players... Just because people ELECT to stay in Europe, it doesn't mean that they are not good enough. NBA is no longer the center of the basketball world as it was until the late 90s. Get over that. NBA teams are better overall, but it's very close now and some European teams are better than most NBA teams...

PAOboston
07-23-2011, 06:33 PM
seriously, if ignorance was lethal, PSD wouldn't have as many active users...

I can't be bothered to find the quotes from NBA scouts, random NBA and NCAA coaches, former and active NBA players, Greg Popovich etc about Panathinaikos coach and players... Just because people ELECT to stay in Europe, it doesn't mean that they are not good enough. NBA is no longer the center of the basketball world as it was until the late 90s. Get over that. NBA teams are better overall, but it's very close now and some European teams are better than most NBA teams...

kinda makes me think how diamantidi would have done in the nba had he come out a few years ago.

NYKalltheway
07-23-2011, 06:39 PM
He said like 13413123 times that it's something he doesn't wanna do as, quoting him, is part of the team with "the best coach in the world, best coaching staff in the world, best fans in the world and he's winning trophies. What more can you ask for?" Also, he doesn't wanna move away from Greece. Why would he? Who would wanna leave the best domestic situation to cross the Atlantic just to get in a new environment and be treated like a kid under idiotic salary restrictions and with no freedom of movement???