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Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 05:57 PM
Forget past accomplishments etc. I'm talking about who the best players will be for next season.

1- Lebron
2- Howard
3- Wade
4- Durant
5- Nowitzki

strahan92osi72
07-21-2011, 05:59 PM
1. Howard
2. Lebron
3. Rose
4. Melo
5. Durant

Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 06:01 PM
how in the world do you not have Wade in the top 5? I'm curious to know your reasoning.

strahan92osi72
07-21-2011, 06:04 PM
how in the world do you not have Wade in the top 5? I'm curious to know your reasoning.

I don't have to explain, you asked and that's my answer. Love Wade, but he's getting older too. He'll be #6, is that better?

Stack_NJNets
07-21-2011, 06:04 PM
1. Lebron
2. Rose
3. Howard
4. Wade
5. Nowitzki

GoPacers33
07-21-2011, 06:04 PM
1. Lebron
2. Dwight
3. Durant
4. Rose
5. Dirk

Swashcuff
07-21-2011, 06:05 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Chris Pauk
5. Kevin Durant

or


Rank Player Age PER Rk WS48 Rk bopSPM Rk RAPM Rk Hi Lo Tot
1 LeBron James 27 28.51 1 0.263 1 7.71 1 8.3 1 1 1 2
2 Dwight Howard 26 25.22 3 0.229 3 6.64 2 5.7 9 9 2 6
3 Dwyane Wade 30 26.30 2 0.216 5 6.26 3 6.1 7 7 2 8
4 Chris Paul 26 24.27 5 0.230 2 5.26 5 6.0 8 8 2 10
4 Kevin Durant 23 24.35 4 0.200 6 5.32 4 3.0 31 31 4 10

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9780

Khalifa21
07-21-2011, 06:08 PM
1. LeBron
2. Dwight
3. CP3
4. Wade
5. Durant

I think CP3 after an extended summer of rest will have a crazy season. I'm hoping anyway.

Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 06:08 PM
I don't have to explain, you asked and that's my answer. Love Wade, but he's getting older too. He'll be #6, is that better?

You say he's getting older but his production hasn't dropped at all. The only reason his ppg dropped a bit is because Lebron is on his team. He averaged 26 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, 1 block on 50% shooting. Those are stats are as good as ever. how's he "getting older"?

Khalifa21
07-21-2011, 06:10 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Chris Pauk
5. Kevin Durant

or


Rank Player Age PER Rk WS48 Rk bopSPM Rk RAPM Rk Hi Lo Tot
1 LeBron James 27 28.51 1 0.263 1 7.71 1 8.3 1 1 1 2
2 Dwight Howard 26 25.22 3 0.229 3 6.64 2 5.7 9 9 2 6
3 Dwyane Wade 30 26.30 2 0.216 5 6.26 3 6.1 7 7 2 8
4 Chris Paul 26 24.27 5 0.230 2 5.26 5 6.0 8 8 2 10
4 Kevin Durant 23 24.35 4 0.200 6 5.32 4 3.0 31 31 4 10

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9780

Just saw this after I posted... Great minds think a like :hi5: (if you swap CP3 and Wade ;))

Swashcuff
07-21-2011, 06:11 PM
Just saw this after I posted... Great minds think a like :hi5: (if you swap CP3 and Wade ;))

As usual :cheers:

strahan92osi72
07-21-2011, 06:12 PM
You say he's getting older but his production hasn't dropped at all. The only reason his ppg dropped a bit is because Lebron is on his team. He averaged 26 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, 1 block on 50% shooting. Those are stats are as good as ever. how's he "getting older"?

He IS getting older, his production hasn't dropped yet, but eventually it will. Also, him being out of the top five doesn't even mean his production will slip, it means someone else will have a huge year. Melo is gonna beast in a fast paced system, he may win the scoring title.

Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 06:14 PM
He IS getting older, his production hasn't dropped yet, but eventually it will. Also, him being out of the top five doesn't even mean his production will slip, it means someone else will have a huge year. Melo is gonna beast in a fast paced system, he may win the scoring title.

Just because he will score more than Wade in a fast paced system doesn't mean he's better... tell Melo to win a playoff game with the Knicks and play some defense

strahan92osi72
07-21-2011, 06:17 PM
Just because he will score more than Wade in a fast paced system doesn't mean he's better... tell Melo to win a playoff game with the Knicks and play some defense

You're just a homer, putting two of your players in the top five. I don't waste time with Heat homers. You're also a Knicks hater, also someone I don't waste time with.

The Flash
07-21-2011, 06:19 PM
Just because he will score more than Wade in a fast paced system doesn't mean he's better... tell Melo to win a playoff game with the Knicks and play some defense

How is he gonna tell him?

strahan92osi72
07-21-2011, 06:19 PM
And tell Lebron not to disappear in the 4th quarter and to actually win something before declaring it.

SteBO
07-21-2011, 06:20 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Chris Pauk
5. Kevin Durant

or


Rank Player Age PER Rk WS48 Rk bopSPM Rk RAPM Rk Hi Lo Tot
1 LeBron James 27 28.51 1 0.263 1 7.71 1 8.3 1 1 1 2
2 Dwight Howard 26 25.22 3 0.229 3 6.64 2 5.7 9 9 2 6
3 Dwyane Wade 30 26.30 2 0.216 5 6.26 3 6.1 7 7 2 8
4 Chris Paul 26 24.27 5 0.230 2 5.26 5 6.0 8 8 2 10
4 Kevin Durant 23 24.35 4 0.200 6 5.32 4 3.0 31 31 4 10

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9780
Exactly this.

Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 06:23 PM
You're just a homer, putting two of your players in the top five. I don't waste time with Heat homers. You're also a Knicks hater, also someone I don't waste time with.

haha now you're just mad because I'm right. Is what I'm saying not true? Basketball isn't about just scoring the ball. Melo is a ***** defender and a ball hog. Your the homer. I listed 2 Heat players in the top 5 because they actually are top 5 and most people would agree

Sadds The Gr8
07-21-2011, 06:25 PM
Howard
Lebron
Wade
Dirk
Paul

Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 06:25 PM
And tell Lebron not to disappear in the 4th quarter and to actually win something before declaring it.

Carmelo lost in the 1st round buddy. How do you have room to talk about Lebron??

strahan92osi72
07-21-2011, 06:26 PM
Carmelo lost in the 1st round buddy. How do you have room to talk about Lebron??

He also had no Amare and no Billups. I'll take Melo when I need to win a series. As great as Lebron is in the season he will always choke in the big spot.

naps
07-21-2011, 06:30 PM
LeBron
Wade
Howard
CP3
Durant

LeBron/Howard/Wade with MVP and Durant claims his 3rd straight scoring title. CP3 finally becomes healthy and shows how big the gap is between him and the next PG.

Hostetler
07-21-2011, 06:31 PM
no order:

Howard
Durant
Lebron
Melo
Dirk

strahan92osi72
07-21-2011, 06:32 PM
no order:

Howard
Durant
Lebron
Melo
Dirk

No Wade? You left a Heat player out? How dare you.:rolleyes:

Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 06:34 PM
He also had no Amare and no Billups. I'll take Melo when I need to win a series. As great as Lebron is in the season he will always choke in the big spot.

Carmelo has won 2 playoff series in his career.... Lebron's stats in the playoffs also burry melo's

Philly 4 Life
07-21-2011, 06:35 PM
1. Wade
2. Durant
3. Dirk
4. Lebron
5a. Rose
5b. Melo

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-21-2011, 06:37 PM
1. LeBron
2. Dwight
3. Rose
4. Durant
5. Wade

Cowboys4Life619
07-21-2011, 07:03 PM
1. Dwight
2. Lebron
3. Nowitski
4.a) Wade
b) Kobe
5. Durant

Bruno
07-21-2011, 07:22 PM
how in the world do you not have Wade in the top 5? I'm curious to know your reasoning.

Wade has never gone more than three seasons in a row with out missing at least 30 games. He's played over 76 games for the past three seasons; he's due ;)

wjmoffatt
07-21-2011, 07:47 PM
You went against your own rules by naming your top five that way!

Top 5
1. Dwight Howard
2. Kevin Durant
3. CP3
4. Derrick Rose
5. Lebron James (Not having Dirk on here because I think he won;t be hungry next season)

Kashmir13579
07-21-2011, 07:51 PM
Chris Paul
Lebron James
Dwayne Wade
Dwight Howard
I have no idea who the 5th will be.

TheRunKiller
07-21-2011, 07:55 PM
Rose
Wade
Dirk
Durant
Lebron

knickfan33
07-21-2011, 08:08 PM
wade cant shoot.
wade hasnt done a thing without shaq, until this season when 2 superstars came to play with him, still fell short......

he is overrated.

Bulls_fan90
07-21-2011, 08:11 PM
Howard
Rose
Lebron
Durant
Kobe/Dirk

Swashcuff
07-21-2011, 08:17 PM
wade cant shoot.
wade hasnt done a thing without shaq, until this season when 2 superstars came to play with him, still fell short......

he is overrated.

:crazy:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 08:28 PM
wade cant shoot.
wade hasnt done a thing without shaq, until this season when 2 superstars came to play with him, still fell short......

he is overrated.

haha you serious bro? the Knicks haven't won a playoff game in a decade and you are gonna talk about Wade not winning? haha good one.

theheatles
07-21-2011, 08:32 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Chris Paul
5. Kevin Durant

or


Rank Player Age PER Rk WS48 Rk bopSPM Rk RAPM Rk Hi Lo Tot
1 LeBron James 27 28.51 1 0.263 1 7.71 1 8.3 1 1 1 2
2 Dwight Howard 26 25.22 3 0.229 3 6.64 2 5.7 9 9 2 6
3 Dwyane Wade 30 26.30 2 0.216 5 6.26 3 6.1 7 7 2 8
4 Chris Paul 26 24.27 5 0.230 2 5.26 5 6.0 8 8 2 10
4 Kevin Durant 23 24.35 4 0.200 6 5.32 4 3.0 31 31 4 10

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9780


^ this

ivylleague1'
07-21-2011, 08:42 PM
Allen Iverson (If he plays for the right team).
Lebron James.
Kobe Bryant.
Durant and Duncan.
Love and Nash.

Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 08:44 PM
Allen Iverson (If he plays for the right team).
Lebron James.
Kobe Bryant.
Durant and Duncan.
Love and Nash.

I hope you kidding :laugh::laugh:

strahan92osi72
07-21-2011, 08:45 PM
Allen Iverson (If he plays for the right team).
Lebron James.
Kobe Bryant.
Durant and Duncan.
Love and Nash.

What year are you in, 2002?

ivylleague1'
07-21-2011, 08:47 PM
What year are you in, 2002?


Just wait and see !!!!

strahan92osi72
07-21-2011, 08:51 PM
Just wait and see !!!!

While we're at it, how about T-Mac, Vinsanity, and Garnett. And maybe Shaq, Yao, Marbury, and Stevie Franchise should all come out of retirement. Seriously all kidding aside, but is your name Rip van Winkle.

naps
07-21-2011, 08:56 PM
wade cant shoot.
wade hasnt done a thing without shaq, until this season when 2 superstars came to play with him, still fell short......

he is overrated.

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::crazy::pity::facepalm:

ivylleague1'
07-21-2011, 08:57 PM
T-Mac is not in shape. He needs to work on that.
Vince Carter is not playing with enthusiasm.
Garnett is still a great player. Do not underrate him.
Shaq is not healthy and in shape.
Yao. Not healthy.
Marbury. Not serious.
Steve Francis. Not serious.

THE GIPPER
07-21-2011, 09:11 PM
what swashcuff said

JordansBulls
07-21-2011, 09:15 PM
Going into next season:

1. Dirk
2. Wade
3. Lebron
4. Dwight
5. Rose

tredigs
07-21-2011, 09:21 PM
Let's go:

Lebron
Cp3
Wade
Howard
Durant

Honorable mention to Dirk.

Watch list to take their stab at it: Blake Griffin, Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose. Others are better, but I give them the highest impact potential if and when there is a season.

DR_1
07-21-2011, 09:34 PM
Rose is better than both Wade and CP3. With that in mind, here's my top 5 for next year.

1. Howard - Looks like he can be the most dominant big man since Shaq
2. Dirk - Will play at his same incredible level
3. Rose - Will expand on his MVP season
4. Durant - He's got another year of experience
5. LeBron- Obviously talented, but he and Wade look like they still don't know who's in charge

DR_1
07-21-2011, 09:36 PM
wade cant shoot.
wade hasnt done a thing without shaq, until this season when 2 superstars came to play with him, still fell short......

he is overrated.

This. He may sound like he's raging, but his points are valid ones.

Khalifa21
07-21-2011, 09:37 PM
Rose is better than both Wade and CP3. With that in mind, here's my top 5 for next year.

1. Howard - Looks like he can be the most dominant big man since Shaq
2. Dirk - Will play at his same incredible level
3. Rose - Will expand on his MVP season
4. Durant - He's got another year of experience
5. LeBron- Obviously talented, but he and Wade look like they still don't know who's in charge

This made me laugh.

Swashcuff
07-21-2011, 09:38 PM
This. He may sound like he's raging, but his points are valid ones.

:rolleyes:

and had Wade chosen to go to Chicago last season you'd have him at one.

Swashcuff
07-21-2011, 09:40 PM
This made me laugh.

Damn near everything that poster says makes me laugh.

He once said no star player can play for a 35 win team. :pity:

PatsSoxKnicks
07-21-2011, 09:42 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Chris Pauk
5. Kevin Durant

or


Rank Player Age PER Rk WS48 Rk bopSPM Rk RAPM Rk Hi Lo Tot
1 LeBron James 27 28.51 1 0.263 1 7.71 1 8.3 1 1 1 2
2 Dwight Howard 26 25.22 3 0.229 3 6.64 2 5.7 9 9 2 6
3 Dwyane Wade 30 26.30 2 0.216 5 6.26 3 6.1 7 7 2 8
4 Chris Paul 26 24.27 5 0.230 2 5.26 5 6.0 8 8 2 10
4 Kevin Durant 23 24.35 4 0.200 6 5.32 4 3.0 31 31 4 10

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9780

Looks good. I might switch CP3 and Wade though, mainly because of age.

ManningToTyree
07-21-2011, 09:44 PM
haha you serious bro? the Knicks haven't won a playoff game in a decade and you are gonna talk about Wade not winning? haha good one.

How does that pertain to the thread? Why is it not ok for someone to have a different opinion then you? Thats the point of these threads to discuss. No need to bait and bash everyone. Makes you come across as an 11 year old. Unless you are actually an 11 year old, then you have my apologies and sweet dreams ;)

Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 09:46 PM
How does that pertain to the thread? Why is it not ok for someone to have a different opinion then you? Thats the point of these threads to discuss. No need to bait and bash everyone. Makes you come across as an 11 year old. Unless you are actually an 11 year old, then you have my apologies and sweet dreams ;)

It's not an opinion. You are a knicks fan talking about how great your team is and how wade hasn't won with out shaq besides this year.

DR_1
07-21-2011, 09:47 PM
Damn near everything that poster says makes me laugh.

He once said no star player can play for a 35 win team. :pity:

My point was that Granger is not a star player. Let's not take things out of context. And on your first point, I would have had no problem with Wade if he had not insulted the Bulls organization, and done stuff like mocking Dirk in the finals. I could care less if he went to Chicago, he's still the same player.

im ur fatha
07-21-2011, 09:50 PM
Your just a heat homer

Howard
Lebron
Rose
Melo
Durant

DR_1
07-21-2011, 09:51 PM
This made me laugh.

Why's that? Prove to me Wade/CP3 are better than Rose.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-21-2011, 09:52 PM
My point was that Granger is not a star player. Let's not take things out of context. And on your first point, I would have had no problem with Wade if he had not insulted the Bulls organization, and done stuff like mocking Dirk in the finals. I could care less if he went to Chicago, he's still the same player.

Thus, you're biased against him and therefore, you can't properly rate him because your bias clouds your judgment.

ManningToTyree
07-21-2011, 09:52 PM
.

Khalifa21
07-21-2011, 09:53 PM
Why's that? Prove to me Wade/CP3 are better than Rose.

Common sense should be enough...

ManningToTyree
07-21-2011, 09:55 PM
It's not an opinion. You are a knicks fan talking about how great your team is and how wade hasn't won with out shaq besides this year.

I didn't say anything about the Knicks or Wade. Has he won since Shaq left? I don't see your problem other then you are a Knicks hater and If lebron and Wade are not in someones top 5 you judge them as stupid even if they attempt to back up their argument. Do you have a crystal ball? ANY 5 players can be said as long as there is reasoning to back it up.

Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 09:55 PM
I didn't say anything about the Knicks or Wade. Has he won since Shaq left? I don't see your problem other then you are a Knicks hater and If lebron and Wade are not in someones top 5 you judge them as stupid even if they attempt to back up their argument. Do you have a crystal ball? ANY 5 players can be said as long as there is reasoning to back it up.

I'm entitled to my opinion to dumb *****. They can state their top 5 and I can argue it. Every thing I said is right. you say Wade hasn't won since shaq left but then the players you name instead of Wade haven't won since...EVER.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-21-2011, 09:55 PM
I didn't say anything about the Knicks or Wade. Has he won since Shaq left? I don't see your problem other then you are a Knicks hater and If lebron and Wade are not in someones top 5 you judge them as stupid even if they attempt to back up their argument. Do you have a crystal ball? ANY 5 players can be said as long as there is reasoning to back it up.

Who's a Knick hater? Khalifa21 or me? Because we're both Knicks fans and we both would think you're crazy if you didn't have Lebron in the top 5. Well I would at least, I can't speak for Khalifa.

naps
07-21-2011, 09:55 PM
Rose is better than both Wade and CP3. With that in mind, here's my top 5 for next year.

1. Howard - Looks like he can be the most dominant big man since Shaq
2. Dirk - Will play at his same incredible level
3. Rose - Will expand on his MVP season
4. Durant - He's got another year of experience
5. LeBron- Obviously talented, but he and Wade look like they still don't know who's in charge

Wade and CP3 are better than Rose in almost every single aspect of the game.

DR_1
07-21-2011, 09:56 PM
Common sense should be enough...

I ask again, what's your reasoning?

ManningToTyree
07-21-2011, 09:58 PM
Who's a Knick hater? Khalifa21 or me? Because we're both Knicks fans and we both would think you're crazy if you didn't have Lebron in the top 5. Well I would at least, I can't speak for Khalifa.

neither lol. my bad dude i forgot to quote the ignorant op's response

DR_1
07-21-2011, 09:59 PM
Wade and CP3 are better than Rose in almost every single aspect of the game.

Good one!!! I've never seen one of Wade's teams where he was the only star as Rose's did last year. Same for CP3. If they were do great, how come their teams didnt have the NBA's best record?

DR_1
07-21-2011, 10:01 PM
Thus, you're biased against him and therefore, you can't properly rate him because your bias clouds your judgment.

I'm not saying that Wade isnt a great player. He is. I just have my own views on how great.

Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 10:01 PM
I ask again, what's your reasoning?

Points per game- Wade
rebounds per game- Wade
defense- Wade
steals- Wade
blocks- wade
FG%- Wade
shot attempts- rose
turnovers- rose
PER- Wade
Efficiency- Wade
Wade's team beat Rose's team 4-1 in ECF
The only notable things Rose has on Wade is assists and ft%

Swashcuff
07-21-2011, 10:01 PM
Thus, you're biased against him and therefore, you can't properly rate him because your bias clouds your judgment.

We all have our biases, however some of us don't allow our biases to cloud our judgement or have it disrupt our rationale. We think logical and without hate, others don't apply any form of logic to any of their arguments they're just fueled by hate.

wizardman34
07-21-2011, 10:02 PM
Wade
LBJ
CP3
Rose
Melo
Dwight is not in top 5 until he creates some post moves...

naps
07-21-2011, 10:05 PM
Good one!!! I've never seen one of Wade's teams where he was the only star as Rose's did last year. Same for CP3. If they were do great, how come their teams didnt have the NBA's best record?

Basketball is a team game. Thus a team win games, not a single player. Tell me what aspects of the game Rose is better than Wade and CP3. Don't just throw your opinions, make it substantial if you wanna have a debate. Again, no opinions without factual support.

Khalifa21
07-21-2011, 10:06 PM
Who's a Knick hater? Khalifa21 or me? Because we're both Knicks fans and we both would think you're crazy if you didn't have Lebron in the top 5. Well I would at least, I can't speak for Khalifa.

You can speak for me :laugh2: I'm with you on that one man.

Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 10:07 PM
Basketball is a team game. Thus a team win games, not a single player. Tell me what aspects of the game Rose is better than Wade and CP3. Don't just throw your opinions, make it substantial if you wanna have a debate. Again, no opinions without factual support.

I already owned him. Just look at my comment above. He probably left :laugh::laugh:

PatsSoxKnicks
07-21-2011, 10:09 PM
Good one!!! I've never seen one of Wade's teams where he was the only star as Rose's did last year. Same for CP3. If they were do great, how come their teams didnt have the NBA's best record?

I hope you fire your coach and trade Deng, Asik and Noah to the Knicks for Roger Mason and Jared Jeffries. Then come back to me in a year with your opinion.

JordansBulls
07-21-2011, 10:10 PM
Basketball is a team game. Thus a team win games, not a single player. Tell me what aspects of the game Rose is better than Wade and CP3. Don't just throw your opinions, make it substantial if you wanna have a debate. Again, no opinions without factual support.

He led a team the conference finals with no other allstar on his team and the best record in the league while when CP3 led a team to the #2 seed he had another allstar on his team.

Wade is better than Rose though, he got it done as the man already.

Swashcuff
07-21-2011, 10:11 PM
Basketball is a team game. Thus a team win games, not a single player. Tell me what aspects of the game Rose is better than Wade and CP3. Don't just throw your opinions, make it substantial if you wanna have a debate. Again, no opinions without factual support.

Are you crazy?

Basketball is NOT a team game. That's why according to that poster no star player can play on a 35 win team.

CHANGO
07-21-2011, 10:11 PM
Good one!!! I've never seen one of Wade's teams where he was the only star as Rose's did last year. Same for CP3. If they were do great, how come their teams didnt have the NBA's best record?

C'mon son, you're comparing the Bulls cast to Heat and Hornets cast. You are comparing Luol Deng to the ****ing Quentin Richardson(Trevor Ariza), Boozer to Beasley(Carl Landry or David West) and Noah to Jermaine(Okafor). WOW!

Your nick says it all...

naps
07-21-2011, 10:12 PM
I already owned him. Just look at my comment above. He probably left :laugh::laugh:

Yes, he left. He's just a biased and fueled by hate. He couldn't say anything because all you stated is what I asked him to do and it was not gonna support his stance.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-21-2011, 10:13 PM
You can speak for me :laugh2: I'm with you on that one man.

I figured as much. :laugh2:

Khalifa21
07-21-2011, 10:13 PM
I ask again, what's your reasoning?

You'd have to be an ignorant homer to honestly think Rose is a better player than both Wade and CP3... This argument really doesn't justify a long post (nor does it require it) so just take a look at the advanced stats of the three players.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=rosede01&y1=2011&p2=wadedw01&y2=2011&p3=paulch01&y3=2011

CP3 and Wade have Rose beaten in pretty much every single category, whilst they both 'underperformed' in many people's eyes last season whereas Rose had the best season of his career.

Ask any unbiased, knowledgeable poster on this forum who they think is the inferior player out of those three and they'll all point to Rose.

Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 10:14 PM
Yes, he left. He's just a biased and fueled by hate. He couldn't say anything because all you stated is what I asked him to do and it was not gonna support his stance.

Rose lovers hate stats haha. I'm not saying I hate Rose but to say he's better than Wade is ludicrous.

naps
07-21-2011, 10:15 PM
Are you crazy?

Basketball is NOT a team game. That's why according to that poster no star player can play on a 35 win team.

LOL...These posters are crazy man! All they do is bring in team records for player vs player threads. We have an x-mod here who could be the only person on psd that thinks Dirk is the best player entering next season because he won without HCA. I guess you are here long enough to recognize that poster.

blastmasta26
07-21-2011, 10:16 PM
Good one!!! I've never seen one of Wade's teams where he was the only star as Rose's did last year. Same for CP3. If they were do great, how come their teams didnt have the NBA's best record?
Because Rose's supporting cast was better, even when he had injuries to the team, they had the best defense in the league. And that's in spite of Rose, not because of him. His cast was significantly better than CP3's. And Wade's supporting cast was not vastly inferior, but there were chemistry issues for the team that hurt them in the regular season.

Besides, it's clear that Paul and Wade are better players than Rose. Paul is much more efficient offensively, a far superior passer, and a better defender since he gets steals at a much higher rate and Rose is not exactly a lockdown man to man guy. Wade is also more efficient offensively, a better defender by far, and a better rebounder. Rose scores more than Paul but less efficiently and Rose gets more assists than Wade, but Wade had a more scoring oriented role with the Heat this year due to LeBron.

Swashcuff
07-21-2011, 10:16 PM
He led a team the conference finals with no other allstar on his team and the best record in the league while when CP3 led a team to the #2 seed he had another allstar on his team.

Wade is better than Rose though, he got it done as the man already.

What conference did CP3 play in JB? Not because CP3 never got a #1 seed as the man does not mean that he's not better player. By your reasoning Hakeem in 94 should be considered a better player than MJ ever was. Right? Try again JB. And this is coming from an Allen Iverson fan, yeah we had another All Star but A.I. sure as hell did not have the help that Rose had.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-21-2011, 10:19 PM
He led a team the conference finals with no other allstar on his team and the best record in the league while when CP3 led a team to the #2 seed he had another allstar on his team.

Wade is better than Rose though, he got it done as the man already.

Did David West actually deserve to be an all-star that year? I honestly don't remember, maybe he did.

Swashcuff
07-21-2011, 10:20 PM
You'd have to be an ignorant homer to honestly think Rose is a better player than both Wade and CP3... This argument really doesn't justify a long post (nor does it require it) so just take a look at the advanced stats of the three players.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=rosede01&y1=2011&p2=wadedw01&y2=2011&p3=paulch01&y3=2011

CP3 and Wade have Rose beaten in pretty much every single category, whilst they both 'underperformed' in many people's eyes last season whereas Rose had the best season of his career.

Ask any unbiased, knowledgeable poster on this forum who they think is the inferior player out of those three and they'll all point to Rose.

I think I fit that mold but I already gave my opinion so he should ask someone else.

You already know his rebuttal to the facts though. "Stats aren't everything you have to watch the game and I've watched Derrick Rose enough to know that he's better than both Wade and Paul".

PatsSoxKnicks
07-21-2011, 10:21 PM
You'd have to be an ignorant homer to honestly think Rose is a better player than both Wade and CP3... This argument really doesn't justify a long post (nor does it require it) so just take a look at the advanced stats of the three players.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=rosede01&y1=2011&p2=wadedw01&y2=2011&p3=paulch01&y3=2011

CP3 and Wade have Rose beaten in pretty much every single category, whilst they both 'underperformed' in many people's eyes last season whereas Rose had the best season of his career.

Ask any unbiased, knowledgeable poster on this forum who they think is the inferior player out of those three and they'll all point to Rose.

No dude, Rose does it by himself. So the Bulls are going to trade Thibs, Deng, Noah and Asik to the Knicks for D'Antoni, Jeffries, Roger Mason and Bill Walker.

Sound good?

PatsSoxKnicks
07-21-2011, 10:26 PM
I think I fit that mold but I already gave my opinion so he should ask someone else.

You already know his rebuttal to the facts though. "Stats aren't everything you have to watch the game and I've watched Derrick Rose enough to know that he's better than both Wade and Paul even though I've never watched either of those 2 in my entire life".

Fixed lol

Swashcuff
07-21-2011, 10:28 PM
Fixed lol

Literally LMAO :laugh:

Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 10:30 PM
I ask again, what's your reasoning?

where'd you go?? hahaha

naps
07-21-2011, 10:33 PM
Going into next season:

1. Dirk
2. Wade
3. Lebron
4. Dwight
5. Rose

I know it's your opinion, but I would like to see an argument for Dirk being the best on the planet. Please, discuss it here. We have a lot of posters here and pretty sure few more will like to hear the arguments.

JordansBulls
07-21-2011, 10:35 PM
Dirk last year and going to this season is the best player. He beat the two teams that had the higher SRS rating, better defensive and offensive rating, higher Expected Win-Loss, and who had more stars than he did.
Not to mention all the other guys who would have a case over him lost with HCA last season with as much or more help than Dirk had.

Not to mention the following:

Dirk Nowitzki and Mavs become first team in NBA history

To defeat three teams that each had a

ALL-NBA 1st team player and ALL-NBA 2nd team player:

Kobe and Gasol
Durant and Westbrook
LeBron and Wade


The only player last year who has a case over Dirk is probably Durant and that is because he didn't have HCA when he lost the series.

Khalifa21
07-21-2011, 10:39 PM
No dude, Rose does it by himself. So the Bulls are going to trade Thibs, Deng, Noah and Asik to the Knicks for D'Antoni, Jeffries, Roger Mason and Bill Walker.

Sound good?

Sounds fantastic :)

Khalifa21
07-21-2011, 10:43 PM
Dirk last year and going to this season is the best player. He beat the two teams that had the higher SRS rating, better defensive and offensive rating, higher Expected Win-Loss, and who had more stars than he did.
Not to mention all the other guys who would have a case over him lost with HCA last season with as much or more help than Dirk had.

Not to mention the following:

Dirk Nowitzki and Mavs become first team in NBA history

To defeat three teams that each had a

ALL-NBA 1st team player and ALL-NBA 2nd team player:

Kobe and Gasol
Durant and Westbrook
LeBron and Wade


The only player last year who has a case over Dirk is probably Durant and that is because he didn't have HCA when he lost the series.

So basically, for you, HCA is the be all and end all of determining a players ability?

So Z-Bo's better than Gasol because he didn't lose with home court advantage? And Westbrook's better than Rose because he didn't lose with HCA? And Terry's better than Ginobili because he didn't lose with HCA?

Baller1
07-21-2011, 10:45 PM
1. Dwight
2. Lebron
3. Durant
4. Wade
5. Rose/Paul/Dirk

PatsSoxKnicks
07-21-2011, 10:47 PM
Dirk last year and going to this season is the best player. He beat the two teams that had the higher SRS rating, better defensive and offensive rating, higher Expected Win-Loss, and who had more stars than he did.
Not to mention all the other guys who would have a case over him lost with HCA last season with as much or more help than Dirk had.

Not to mention the following:

Dirk Nowitzki and Mavs become first team in NBA history

To defeat three teams that each had a

ALL-NBA 1st team player and ALL-NBA 2nd team player:

Kobe and Gasol
Durant and Westbrook
LeBron and Wade


The only player last year who has a case over Dirk is probably Durant and that is because he didn't have HCA when he lost the series.

I sort of understand what you're saying JB but that's basically ignoring everything that came before the playoffs, whether it was the regular season, last years' playoffs, the 09-10 regular season etc.

Besides, if you're looking for the top 5 players for the 11-12 season, you are projecting the players correct?

If I had a crystal ball, I would not take Dirk as the best player next year. I would tend to try to rely on larger sample sizes, age, injury history, etc. to try to form my projection, most of which wouldn't be in favor of Dirk.

Tree Rollins
07-21-2011, 10:47 PM
1. Howard (best defensive player in the league, IMO underrated, believe it or not)
2. Durant (best all around scorer in the league b/c of his outside/inside game and size)
3. Lebron (best player in the league thru 3 quarters)
4. Bryant (a top 6 all-time player will probably find a way to get it done, again, next season)
5. Chris Paul (if his knee has recovered 100%, he will remind everyone of exactly how good he is. Derrick Rose could easily take this spot b/c he is so physically/athletically dominant at his position, but a prime Chris Paul is all-around better then a prime Derrick Rose)

PatsSoxKnicks
07-21-2011, 10:48 PM
Sounds fantastic :)

I'm drooling at that thought. If only the Bulls front office thinks the way that one poster does.

JordansBulls
07-21-2011, 10:49 PM
So basically, for you, HCA is the be all and end all of determining a players ability?

So Z-Bo's better than Gasol because he didn't lose with home court advantage? And Westbrook's better than Rose because he didn't lose with HCA? And Terry's better than Ginobili because he didn't lose with HCA?

I'm comparing legit MVP candidates with one another not random guys who were out of the top 10 of MVP voting. Just like I wouldn't compare Joe Dumars and say he is better than David Robinson because he was better in series with HCA when he wasn't even the main star on his team.

JordansBulls
07-21-2011, 10:50 PM
I sort of understand what you're saying JB but that's basically ignoring everything that came before the playoffs, whether it was the regular season, last years' playoffs, the 09-10 regular season etc.

Besides, if you're looking for the top 5 players for the 11-12 season, you are projecting the players correct?

If I had a crystal ball, I would not take Dirk as the best player next year. I would tend to try to rely on larger sample sizes, age, injury history, etc. to try to form my projection, most of which wouldn't be in favor of Dirk.

Again it depends on how you view it. IMO I view it as who are the top 5 going into the season. I can't predict who are the top 5 after the entire season is played because then we have to account for injuries and stuff.

CowboysKB24
07-21-2011, 10:51 PM
Wade
Dwight
LeBron
Durant
Dirk

PatsSoxKnicks
07-21-2011, 11:01 PM
Again it depends on how you view it. IMO I view it as who are the top 5 going into the season. I can't predict who are the top 5 after the entire season is played because then we have to account for injuries and stuff.

Ok, fair enough. But you're top 5 is more about last years playoffs. What about everything that came before it? The regular season, the 09-10 playoffs, the 09-10 regular season, etc.

Personally, despite there being 82 games, I still think 1 season looked at alone is too small of a sample size to determine who the best players are. There are plenty of players who have good seasons only to disappear the next year.

sep11ie
07-21-2011, 11:03 PM
Reggie Evans
Eddy Curry
Mike James
Juwon Howard
Anthony Randolph

naps
07-21-2011, 11:10 PM
Dirk last year and going to this season is the best player. He beat the two teams that had the higher SRS rating, better defensive and offensive rating, higher Expected Win-Loss, and who had more stars than he did.
Not to mention all the other guys who would have a case over him lost with HCA last season with as much or more help than Dirk had.

Not to mention the following:

Dirk Nowitzki and Mavs become first team in NBA history

To defeat three teams that each had a

ALL-NBA 1st team player and ALL-NBA 2nd team player:

Kobe and Gasol
Durant and Westbrook
LeBron and Wade


The only player last year who has a case over Dirk is probably Durant and that is because he didn't have HCA when he lost the series.


Team success doesn't equal individual talent... Dirk sucked in the Finals and was carried by his teammates, if they lost it was because he shot 42%.

Besides, a player who doesn't make the all nba 1st team and has never been in any all nba defensive teams can't be considered as the best player..simple as that. It has probably never happened in the history of the game.

sixer04fan
07-21-2011, 11:17 PM
how in the world do you not have Wade in the top 5? I'm curious to know your reasoning.

Jesus Christ calm the **** down. He's entitled to his opinion. Heat homer.

Heat4life06
07-21-2011, 11:18 PM
Jesus Christ calm the **** down. He's entitled to his opinion. Heat homer.

and I'm entitled to argue and ask a question dumb ***

chong2204
07-21-2011, 11:31 PM
Heres my list.

1. Jimmy Chitwood
2.Jackie Moon
3.Jesus Shuttlesworth
4.Kyle Lee Watson
5.Sidney Deane/ Billy Hoyle

juno10
07-21-2011, 11:42 PM
Rose is better than both Wade and CP3. With that in mind, here's my top 5 for next year.

1. Howard - Looks like he can be the most dominant big man since Shaq
2. Dirk - Will play at his same incredible level
3. Rose - Will expand on his MVP season
4. Durant - He's got another year of experience
5. LeBron- Obviously talented, but he and Wade look like they still don't know who's in charge

do you even watch basketball.

Tree Rollins
07-21-2011, 11:46 PM
do you even watch basketball.

You are smart!

Cool007
07-21-2011, 11:46 PM
1. LeBron
2. Dwight
3. Rose
4. Durant
5. Wade


this.

juno10
07-21-2011, 11:50 PM
Dirk last year and going to this season is the best player. He beat the two teams that had the higher SRS rating, better defensive and offensive rating, higher Expected Win-Loss, and who had more stars than he did.
Not to mention all the other guys who would have a case over him lost with HCA last season with as much or more help than Dirk had.

Not to mention the following:

Dirk Nowitzki and Mavs become first team in NBA history

To defeat three teams that each had a

ALL-NBA 1st team player and ALL-NBA 2nd team player:

Kobe and Gasol
Durant and Westbrook
LeBron and Wade


The only player last year who has a case over Dirk is probably Durant and that is because he didn't have HCA when he lost the series.

did dirk beat them or did the mavericks beat them you act he was some one man show or something

naps
07-21-2011, 11:58 PM
did dirk beat them or did the mavericks beat them you act he was some one man show or something

I know right! Anyone who reads his posts without looking at the thread title will absolutely think that it's "Best 5 team entering next season" thread.

Swashcuff
07-22-2011, 12:03 AM
Dirk last year and going to this season is the best player. The Dallas Mavericks beat the two teams that had the higher SRS rating, better defensive and offensive rating, higher Expected Win-Loss, and who had more stars than he did.
Not to mention all the other guys who would have a case over him lost with HCA last season with as much or more help than Dirk had.

Not to mention the following:

Dirk Nowitzki and Mavs become first team in NBA history

To defeat three teams that each had a

ALL-NBA 1st team player and ALL-NBA 2nd team player:

Kobe and Gasol
Durant and Westbrook
LeBron and Wade


The only player last year who has a case over Dirk is probably Durant and that is because he didn't have HCA when he lost the series.

Fixed.

This post just proves that chemistry and good team work is just as having talent. It's been that way throughout the history of sports where we see super talented teams who have gone down to teams that were just more prepared as a unit and had a better run of games.

If you base your entire ranking of a player solely on who their respective TEAM defeats in the post season that in itself shows exactly as to how wrong your rating of players are. There are literally a thousand and one factors that had to be taken into consideration. I mean had Dirk not been injured for that brief period this past season do you really think the Mavs wouldn't have HCA over the Heat and LA?

Dirk by himself missed 9 games last season do you know how many games Kobe, Gasol, Durant, Westbrook, Wade and LeBron missed combined? 13. 9 of which were by LeBron and Wade combined and the other 4 by Durant.

The Mavs not having the better record than the Lakers and Heat and still beating them does mean that they were an inferior regular season team than them however it means that they lost their best player during a very important time in their season and had that not happened they may have had a shot at HCA throughout the playoffs.

JB there are MANY holes in your HCA advantage arguments and this one is no different.

You hold strong in your opinion that Durant is the only player who can have a case over Dirk because the TEAM in he played for lost when not having HC advantage. I mean really JB that's an argument. No offense but that is easily one of the worst rating systems I have ever heard for a player.

I mean you mean to tell me player A is better than Player B because Player A lost when not HCA, so hey lets disregard that Player C had arguably one of the greatest finals performances in a loss, disregard all the facts, disregard regular season play on a whole and base an opinion on nothing more than losing to a team when you didn't have HCA.

I honestly can't believe that's the argument you are trying to use here bro. I can see a reason why someone would say Dirk is the best player in the game right now but that certainly is not it.

naps
07-22-2011, 12:12 AM
Fixed.

This post just proves that chemistry and good team work is just as having talent. It's been that way throughout the history of sports where we see super talented teams who have gone down to teams that were just more prepared as a unit and had a better run of games.

If you base your entire ranking of a player solely on who their respective TEAM defeats in the post season that in itself shows exactly as to how wrong your rating of players are. There are literally a thousand and one factors that had to be taken into consideration. I mean had Dirk not been injured for that brief period this past season do you really think the Mavs wouldn't have HCA over the Heat and LA?

Dirk by himself missed 9 games last season do you know how many games Kobe, Gasol, Durant, Westbrook, Wade and LeBron missed combined? 13. 9 of which were by LeBron and Wade combined and the other 4 by Durant.

The Mavs not having the better record than the Lakers and Heat and still beating them does mean that they were an inferior regular season team than them however it means that they lost their best player during a very important time in their season and had that not happened they may have had a shot at HCA throughout the playoffs.

JB there are MANY holes in your HCA advantage arguments and this one is no different.

You hold strong in your opinion that Durant is the only player who can have a case over Dirk because the TEAM in he played for lost when not having HC advantage. I mean really JB that's an argument. No offense but that is easily one of the worst rating systems I have ever heard for a player.

I mean you mean to tell me player A is better than Player B because Player A lost when not HCA, so hey lets disregard that Player C had arguably one of the greatest finals performances in a loss, disregard all the facts, disregard regular season play on a whole and base an opinion on nothing more than losing to a team when you didn't have HCA.

I honestly can't believe that's the argument you are trying to use here bro. I can see a reason why someone would say Dirk is the best player in the game right now but that certainly is not it.


Oh well, I guess I was not the only one to notice the holes in his arguments.

JordansBulls
07-22-2011, 12:15 AM
Team success doesn't equal individual talent... Dirk sucked in the Finals and was carried by his teammates, if they lost it was because he shot 42%.

Besides, a player who doesn't make the all nba 1st team and has never been in any all nba defensive teams can't be considered as the best player..simple as that. It has probably never happened in the history of the game.

A guy who loses with HCA can't be considered the best.

A guy who carries a team with 3 players not even playing and does so without HCA against guys who had another star player on the team and won it all is the best.

We voted and on another forum were the discussions are intense and these were the results.



2010-11 Results (Back to Top)

Player 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts POY Shares MVP DPOY All-NBA All-DEF
1. Dirk Nowitzki 19 3 1 0 0 216 0.939 6 - 2nd ---
2. LeBron James 3 10 6 3 1 140 0.609 3 9 1st 1st
3. Dwight Howard 0 7 10 5 1 115 0.500 2 1 1st 1st
4. Dwyane Wade 1 3 4 11 3 87 0.378 7 16 2nd ---
5. Derrick Rose 0 0 1 3 11 25 0.109 1 - 1st ---
6. Kevin Durant 0 0 1 0 5 10 0.043 5 - 1st ---
7. Chris Paul 0 0 0 1 2 5 0.022 13 12 3rd 2nd

JordansBulls
07-22-2011, 12:17 AM
Fixed.

This post just proves that chemistry and good team work is just as having talent. It's been that way throughout the history of sports where we see super talented teams who have gone down to teams that were just more prepared as a unit and had a better run of games.

If you base your entire ranking of a player solely on who their respective TEAM defeats in the post season that in itself shows exactly as to how wrong your rating of players are. There are literally a thousand and one factors that had to be taken into consideration. I mean had Dirk not been injured for that brief period this past season do you really think the Mavs wouldn't have HCA over the Heat and LA?

Dirk by himself missed 9 games last season do you know how many games Kobe, Gasol, Durant, Westbrook, Wade and LeBron missed combined? 13. 9 of which were by LeBron and Wade combined and the other 4 by Durant.

The Mavs not having the better record than the Lakers and Heat and still beating them does mean that they were an inferior regular season team than them however it means that they lost their best player during a very important time in their season and had that not happened they may have had a shot at HCA throughout the playoffs.

JB there are MANY holes in your HCA advantage arguments and this one is no different.

You hold strong in your opinion that Durant is the only player who can have a case over Dirk because the TEAM in he played for lost when not having HC advantage. I mean really JB that's an argument. No offense but that is easily one of the worst rating systems I have ever heard for a player.

I mean you mean to tell me player A is better than Player B because Player A lost when not HCA, so hey lets disregard that Player C had arguably one of the greatest finals performances in a loss, disregard all the facts, disregard regular season play on a whole and base an opinion on nothing more than losing to a team when you didn't have HCA.

I honestly can't believe that's the argument you are trying to use here bro. I can see a reason why someone would say Dirk is the best player in the game right now but that certainly is not it.

Let's compare.



HCA(50+)/non-50 Road(50+)/non-50
Jordan: 14-0 / 10-0 6-7 / 0-0
Russell: 10-0 / 12-1 5-1 / 0-0
Shaq: 11-2 / 12-2 8-6 / 0-0
Magic: 9-2 / 20-1 3-4 / 0-0
Duncan: 13-4 / 8-0 5-4 / 0-0
Jabbar: 11-3 / 23-2 2-6 / 0-1
Olajuwon: 4-0 / 5-2 7-8 / 1-1
Bird: 10-6 / 14-1 0-4 / 0-0
Wilt: 4-3 / 9-2 1-7 / 2-0
Tmac: 0-2 / 0-0 0-3 / 0-1
Kobe: 18-2 / 6-0 5-5 / 0-0
Lebron: 1-3/ 8-0 1-3 / 0-0
Wade: 1-2/ 6-0 2-4 / 0-0


You will see that players win 85-90% of the series they have HCA in, while they win 20-50% of the series they don't have HCA.


Not to mention Dirk was the only allstar on his team and the Mavs were 2-7 without him last season.

Swashcuff
07-22-2011, 12:22 AM
Let's compare.



HCA(50+)/non-50 Road(50+)/non-50
Jordan: 14-0 / 10-0 6-7 / 0-0
Russell: 10-0 / 12-1 5-1 / 0-0
Shaq: 11-2 / 12-2 8-6 / 0-0
Magic: 9-2 / 20-1 3-4 / 0-0
Duncan: 13-4 / 8-0 5-4 / 0-0
Jabbar: 11-3 / 23-2 2-6 / 0-1
Olajuwon: 4-0 / 5-2 7-8 / 1-1
Bird: 10-6 / 14-1 0-4 / 0-0
Wilt: 4-3 / 9-2 1-7 / 2-0
Tmac: 0-2 / 0-0 0-3 / 0-1
Kobe: 18-2 / 6-0 5-5 / 0-0
Lebron: 1-3/ 8-0 1-3 / 0-0
Wade: 1-2/ 6-0 2-4 / 0-0


You will see that players win 85-90% of the series they have HCA in, while they win 20-50% of the series they don't have HCA.

JB stop copying and pasting and debate what I posted. You use the same exact argument every time someone brings this up and in no way trying to refute the points in which they made.

Defend your stance and stop taking the easy way out.

Swashcuff
07-22-2011, 12:35 AM
A guy who loses with HCA can't be considered the best.

A guy who carries a team with 3 players not even playing and does so without HCA against guys who had another star player on the team and won it all is the best.

We voted and on another forum were the discussions are intense and these were the results.



2010-11 Results (Back to Top)

Player 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts POY Shares MVP DPOY All-NBA All-DEF
1. Dirk Nowitzki 19 3 1 0 0 216 0.939 6 - 2nd ---
2. LeBron James 3 10 6 3 1 140 0.609 3 9 1st 1st
3. Dwight Howard 0 7 10 5 1 115 0.500 2 1 1st 1st
4. Dwyane Wade 1 3 4 11 3 87 0.378 7 16 2nd ---
5. Derrick Rose 0 0 1 3 11 25 0.109 1 - 1st ---
6. Kevin Durant 0 0 1 0 5 10 0.043 5 - 1st ---
7. Chris Paul 0 0 0 1 2 5 0.022 13 12 3rd 2nd


I don't vote on Real G M but I too am a part of that forum and pay attention to the project and this is a comment from you.


I just don't see how Dirk could not be #1 this year when the team was 2-7 without him and then they were missing essentially 2 guys in Butler and Roddy and then Haywood went out with injury in the finals and they still won.

That right there is the most important thing to me of everything you said. The Mavericks were in the position they were because of what? Because of the fact that Dirk went down when he was playing at an MVP calibre level and his team suffered. It can be argued that had Dirk and the Mavs remain healthy (eg the Lakers had 6 players who played in 82 regular season games) they would have been much better than their record suggested. It's obvious that the team underperformed during the regular season due to injury.

You very well know when speaking of things like this you have to assess it. By no means was the Mavs beating the Heat or Lakers a huge upset. They was one of the best teams during the regular season but unfortunately lost the best player for more games than any other top 6 team.

naps
07-22-2011, 12:36 AM
A guy who loses with HCA can't be considered the best.


Why not exactly? Please, explain your reasoning. No single player can win a series by himself. It's a team that wins a series. A player might be the most talented and dominant but still his team could lose to a team that have better chemistry. Why did the Lakers lose to the Pistons in 2004 in just 5 games even though the Lakers had Shaq/Kobe/Gary Payton/Karl Malone? Did that make Shaq or Kobe any lesser player than any of the pistons? NO. Flawed argument.


A guy who carries a team with 3 players not even playing and does so without HCA against guys who had another star player on the team and won it all is the best.

If anything it proves how great the Mavs were. Dirk shot only 42% in the finals and still they managed to win because Marion and Terry played better any Heat player not named Wade. I am not gonna even mention JJ Barea, Chandler, Stevenson etc. The thing is Dirk's supporting cast stepped it up when he struggled. Wade was significantly more efficient than Dirk in the finals. So it was the team MAVs who beat the Heat, not Dirk himself like you are making it out to be.


We voted and on another forum were the discussions are intense and these were the results.



2010-11 Results (Back to Top)

Player 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts POY Shares MVP DPOY All-NBA All-DEF
1. Dirk Nowitzki 19 3 1 0 0 216 0.939 6 - 2nd ---
2. LeBron James 3 10 6 3 1 140 0.609 3 9 1st 1st
3. Dwight Howard 0 7 10 5 1 115 0.500 2 1 1st 1st
4. Dwyane Wade 1 3 4 11 3 87 0.378 7 16 2nd ---
5. Derrick Rose 0 0 1 3 11 25 0.109 1 - 1st ---
6. Kevin Durant 0 0 1 0 5 10 0.043 5 - 1st ---
7. Chris Paul 0 0 0 1 2 5 0.022 13 12 3rd 2nd




Who the hell cares about this forum? Here's the link (http://rpoy.dolem.com/) for it. Check out the drop-down option MISC, and see the participants. They were only 31 posters and 90% of them were Bulls and Lakers fans including. Hmmm...Makes sense Dirk got most of the votes.
We have way more posters here and some very knowledgeable ones. So I'll always prefer our forum which is much much bigger in sample size and which contains substantial thoughts.

JordansBulls
07-22-2011, 12:39 AM
Who the hell cares about this forum? Here's the link (http://rpoy.dolem.com/) for it. Check out the drop-down option MISC, and see the participants. They were only 31 posters and 90% of them were Bulls and Lakers fans including. Hmmm...Makes sense Dirk got most of the votes.
We have way more posters here and some very knowledgeable ones. So I'll always prefer our forum which is much much bigger in sample size and which contains substantial thoughts.

You keep saying all of them were Lakers/Bulls fans, then why the hell wouldn't they have voted Rose and Kobe higher? Hell they didn't even put Kobe in the top 5 last year.

naps
07-22-2011, 12:43 AM
JB stop copying and pasting and debate what I posted. You use the same exact argument every time someone brings this up and in no way trying to refute the points in which they made.

Defend your stance and stop taking the easy way out.

Welcome to the world of copying, pasting, HCA, SRS etc...! He's not even gonna touch your first post because he can't counter that. You made so many points in that post and he keeps rolling with his copy and paste thing as usual.

JordansBulls
07-22-2011, 12:46 AM
Welcome to the world of copying, pasting, HCA, SRS etc...! He's not even gonna touch your first post because he can't counter that. You made so many points in that post and he keeps rolling with his copy and paste thing as usual.

I've already exposed you in the other thread where you had no comeback for. But anyway, the writing is on the wall for why Dirk was the best last year. Mavs 2-7 without him. He was able to beat the 2x defending champions with no star next to him. Beat 3 teams that had a 1st team all nba and 2nd team all nba player and beat the two teams that were favorites all year long and before the season without even having HCA and being predicted to be beaten by them in the process.

naps
07-22-2011, 12:48 AM
You keep saying all of them were Lakers/Bulls fans, then why the hell wouldn't they have voted Rose and Kobe higher? Hell they didn't even put Kobe in the top 5 last year.

Common sense.

Why don't we just keep our focus on this forum where we have a lot of very very good posters and so many members. Swashcuff already posted some valid points which are yet to be responded. For the sake of god, stop copy and paste and breakdown the arguments on your own words.

naps
07-22-2011, 12:52 AM
I've already exposed you in the other thread where you had no comeback for. But anyway, the writing is on the wall for why Dirk was the best last year. Mavs 2-7 without him. He was able to beat the 2x defending champions with no star next to him. Beat 3 teams that had a 1st team all nba and 2nd team all nba player and beat the two teams that were favorites all year long and before the season without even having HCA and being predicted to be beaten by them in the process.

I had no comeback for? I am not gonna drag people to that thread to show how you became a kid looking for a Christmas gift at the end...but I'll post that link here later sometime. I'll just let this thread run its course.

If you want to debate please read carefully what the other posters are saying and counter them with objective view rather than memorizing links.

ChI_ShIzzLe
07-22-2011, 02:06 AM
1. Howard (best defensive player in the league, IMO underrated, believe it or not)
2. Durant (best all around scorer in the league b/c of his outside/inside game and size)
3. Lebron (best player in the league thru 3 quarters)
4. Bryant (a top 6 all-time player will probably find a way to get it done, again, next season)
5. Chris Paul (if his knee has recovered 100%, he will remind everyone of exactly how good he is. Derrick Rose could easily take this spot b/c he is so physically/athletically dominant at his position, but a prime Chris Paul is all-around better then a prime Derrick Rose)

Do you have some sort of psychotic powers that let you see into the future? If not, please explain this part of your post because obviously after 3 seasons and at the age of 22, Derrick Rose is nowhere near his prime.

naps
07-22-2011, 12:18 PM
Do you have some sort of psychotic powers that let you see into the future? If not, please explain this part of your post because obviously after 3 seasons and at the age of 22, Derrick Rose is nowhere near his prime.

Agreed. Also CP3 hasn't hit his prime yet.

todu82
07-22-2011, 12:40 PM
1) Lebron
2) Wade
3) Howard
4) Durant
5) Kobe

Raph12
07-22-2011, 03:23 PM
Going into the 2011-12 Season:
1. Lebron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Chris Paul
5. Kevin Durant

After the 2011-12 Season: (Predictions)
1. Dwight Howard
2. Lebron James
3. Chris Paul
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Kevin Durant


Do you have some sort of psychotic powers that let you see into the future? If not, please explain this part of your post because obviously after 3 seasons and at the age of 22, Derrick Rose is nowhere near his prime.

CP3 in his prime (2008-09) has the best statistical season of any PG in league history, had he not gotten injured he could've made a case for GOAT to play PG. Now that doesn't mean that will hold for the next 20+years, but with the current career-trijectory for Rose, it may be safe to say Rose will never be the statistical beast CP3 was... But you're right, at this point it is only speculation.

23dragonzord
07-22-2011, 04:01 PM
1. Howard (probably gonna win mvp. between him and durant i think)
2. Durant
3. LeBron
4. Rose
5. CP3

i didnt put wade cuz i have this feeling he wont stay healthy this year.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
07-22-2011, 04:23 PM
Lol :facepalm: @ ppl who think Dirk is all of a sudden top 5 player in the L...

LeBron
Dwight
Wade
Rose
CP3

alew510
07-22-2011, 04:58 PM
lebron (until the playoffs of course)
rose
dwight
kobe
durant

Shmontaine
07-22-2011, 05:22 PM
i love how anti rose posters boast about stats and then when JB shows stats that aren't what they want to see, they tell JB to stop posting stats and claim it's the "easy way out"... okay people...

dwight
lebron
drose
durant
kobe

no particular order...

fadedmario
07-22-2011, 05:33 PM
1. Steve Novak
2. Brian Scalabrine
3. Keith Bogans
4. Luke Walton
5. Eddy Curry

fadedmario
07-22-2011, 05:35 PM
Lol :facepalm: @ ppl who think Dirk is all of a sudden top 5 player in the L...

LeBron
Dwight
Wade
Rose
CP3

:facepalm: - lol at people that make fun of other people's opinions. Like your's matters more or something. LAME

Rocketsfan85
07-22-2011, 05:38 PM
Rose will not be a top 5 player IMO he's peaked already he will not get any better as a player he will jus maybe get better as a pg.
1.Howard
2.Lebron
3.Durant
4.Nowitzki
5.Wade

Rocketsfan85
07-22-2011, 06:40 PM
Rose will not be a top 5 player IMO he's peaked already he will not get any better as a player he will jus maybe get better as a pg.
1.Howard
2.Lebron
3.Durant
4.Nowitzki
5.Wade

DaBear
07-22-2011, 06:42 PM
Rose will not be a top 5 player IMO he's peaked already he will not get any better as a player he will jus maybe get better as a pg.
1.Howard
2.Lebron
3.Durant
4.Nowitzki
5.Wade

I forgot players peak 3 years into the NBA at age 22. :facepalm:

TheRunKiller
07-22-2011, 06:46 PM
Rose will not be a top 5 player IMO he's peaked already he will not get any better as a player he will jus maybe get better as a pg.
1.Howard
2.Lebron
3.Durant
4.Nowitzki
5.Wade

I hate when people say that, only his 3rd season in the league, yep he can't get any better than he his now...thats just a stupid thing to say. he can get way better than he his now...not even in his prime yet.

Shmontaine
07-22-2011, 06:58 PM
^^ just not smart. I guess everyone peaks at 22. With only one year under COY.

Based on that logic, lbj is on the downside of his career, and Dwight has no chance to improve offensively.

Rose has 5 more years before he's even in his prime. But yeah, no room for improvement at all. Why would anybody project his next year to be better than last?? LBJ peaked after his third year.

Some people just are afraid that he will be better, IMO.

SportsFanatic10
07-22-2011, 07:00 PM
Rose will not be a top 5 player IMO he's peaked already he will not get any better as a player he will jus maybe get better as a pg.
1.Howard
2.Lebron
3.Durant
4.Nowitzki
5.Wade

rose hasn't peaked yet at all thats ridiculous. he'll become more efficient and a better passer/defender than he was this year. however hes still not top 5 for me on this list as of now.

lebron
howard
wade
durant
paul
dirk
kobe
rose
melo
dwill

kingjamesjr333
07-22-2011, 07:14 PM
Alright I'm sick and tired of people saying CP3 is better then Rose. Derrick Rose owns CP3 everytime he plays him. Derrick Rose is only 22 years old and he's only going to get better. Dwyane Wade is better then him now, but this upcoming season Derrick Rose will pass Dwade up

SportsFanatic10
07-22-2011, 07:15 PM
cp3 > rose

kingjamesjr333
07-22-2011, 07:18 PM
DROSE (3rd year pro MVP, ROY, ECF)> CP3 (6 year pro) olympic gold medal..... that's all i can think of

Minimal
07-22-2011, 07:58 PM
1. LeBron
2. Howard
3. Chris Paul
4. Wade
5. Durant

Slug3
07-22-2011, 09:15 PM
DROSE (3rd year pro MVP, ROY, ECF)> CP3 (6 year pro) olympic gold medal..... that's all i can think of

CP3 has a ROY as well as an all star 4 times.

blastmasta26
07-22-2011, 09:22 PM
DROSE (3rd year pro MVP, ROY, ECF)> CP3 (6 year pro) olympic gold medal..... that's all i can think of
MVP and ECF appearances are largely reliant on team success. Chris Paul is better than Rose, he's more skilled, more efficient, and a much better passer.

Avenged
07-22-2011, 11:03 PM
Only read the last couple of posts in this thread..

1. Dwight
2. Lebron
3. Chris Paul
4. Durant
5. Wade

I was unsure on leaving out Rose. I think he's a top 10 player in the game but I'd like to see him continue to improve before putting him anywhere in the top 5.

Dwight and Lebron will battle it out for the #1 spot, and I think it's time the majority here stops thinking that Lebron can't be touched for the top spot.

beasted86
07-22-2011, 11:21 PM
There are too many statistical categories and advanced stats that point to LeBron, Wade, Howard, Durant, and Paul as the top 5 players in the NBA whatever order you want to decide.

Mine is:

1. Howard
2. LeBron
3. Wade
4. Durant
5. Paul

But I love how people turn a blind eye to the number of stat categories that back these guys as the best, and claim they are objective with their opinion. Puh-lease......

J_M_B
07-23-2011, 12:29 AM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Chris Paul
5. Kevin Durant

Followed by Rose and Dirk ...

GhostfaceDrilla
07-23-2011, 12:59 AM
Dirk is 4th.

If anyone can tell me how Durant will be better, I'm listening. Is it because Durant has a shoe commercial and 4million twitter followers? Is it because Dirk doesn't have commercials?

Dirk won a championship and bounced Durant's ***.

Dirk > Durant.

GhostfaceDrilla
07-23-2011, 01:07 AM
Team success doesn't equal individual talent... Dirk sucked in the Finals and was carried by his teammates, if they lost it was because he shot 42%.

Besides, a player who doesn't make the all nba 1st team and has never been in any all nba defensive teams can't be considered as the best player..simple as that. It has probably never happened in the history of the game.

26 and 9
2 Game Winners
62 points in the 4th Quarter

STFU hater

JordansBulls
07-23-2011, 09:00 AM
This is absolutely insane. With what Dirk did this year as the only star player on his team and you still got people putting other guys over him when other guys virtually got outplayed by Dirk's 6th man.:speechless:

Durant is hype
07-23-2011, 11:29 AM
First of JB,basketball is a TEAM game. Dirk doesn't and didn't miraculously shut down the likes of Gasol,Kobe,LBJ,and Wade. He was the team's #1 option offensively,but unlike the league's best TWO-way players ( Howard and James) he wasn't the team's defense anchor. That title belongs to Tyson Chandler. This team didn't have an all star,you're right that's a fact. I just think from 4-9 Dallas was much better than everyone(except for maybe Bulls or Lakers). It was a classic case of his team over-performing and other teams under-performing that gave them the ring. Heck Jason Terry was an all star.....in the playoffs ;)

Durant is hype
07-23-2011, 11:35 AM
I've already exposed you in the other thread where you had no comeback for. But anyway, the writing is on the wall for why Dirk was the best last year. Mavs 2-7 without him. He was able to beat the 2x defending champions with no star next to him. Beat 3 teams that had a 1st team all nba and 2nd team all nba player and beat the two teams that were favorites all year long and before the season without even having HCA and being predicted to be beaten by them in the process.

Please don't use the "experts" as an argument. Unlike you they don't backup their claims with substance... I regard your opinions in a higher light than the Media's opinion.

alencp3
07-23-2011, 12:09 PM
1. Lebron
2. Griffin
3. CP3
4. Howard
5. Durant

beasted86
07-23-2011, 02:24 PM
Dirk is 4th.

If anyone can tell me how Durant will be better, I'm listening. Is it because Durant has a shoe commercial and 4million twitter followers? Is it because Dirk doesn't have commercials?

Dirk won a championship and bounced Durant's ***.

Dirk > Durant.

So whoever wins the championship or knocks another team out of the playoffs means they are automatically better than them? By that logic Jason Terry > Dwyane Wade.

Durant is a better two way player already, and is the best scorer in the NBA. Dirk will be a year older, and Durant will be a year smarter. If Durant wasn't already better than Dirk thru last regular season (Dirk played better through playoffs), then for sure he should be better in 2011-2012.

The OP asks for the top 5 players, don't feel disrespected or take it personal if some people have Durant there and not Dirk, as for all you know Dirk might have been sixth in their top 10, but the topic is only about 5.

beasted86
07-23-2011, 02:29 PM
1. Lebron
2. Griffin
3. CP3
4. Howard
5. Durant

Griffin #2 player in the NBA? Way to go out on a limb in prediction, because last year he wasn't top 10.

juno10
07-23-2011, 02:31 PM
lebron
dwight
wade
dirk
kobe

juno10
07-23-2011, 02:35 PM
This is absolutely insane. With what Dirk did this year as the only star player on his team and you still got people putting other guys over him when other guys virtually got outplayed by Dirk's 6th man.:speechless:

obviously no one shares your way of determining who the best player is, i guess chauncey bllups was the best when the pistons won it or paul pierce when the celts won it.

* waits for response that says YES they were the best

Bullsfan22
07-23-2011, 04:57 PM
1 .Howard-Howard post game continues to improve and, puts him at around 25-28 ppg while still being efficient; defense remains dominant making him the best player in the league.) I'm really high on Howard for the next season.

2 .Lebron-will be even better defensively and comparable to last season offensively.

3. Wade-struggled putting Wade over durant but barring injury I think he's a more complete player than Durant is.

4. Durant- He will lead the league in scoring, again. I'm anxious to see if he uses his length to become the defensive stopper he can be, instead of using his length to be an average to slightly above average defender. Also looking forward to him being more of a playmaker. (improving those things can make him potentially the best in the league)

5. Cp3- Stats don't lie, and his efficiency stats he puts up are staggering. with that being said, I look for him to assume a bigger role offensively while keeping up his efficient ways. One gripe I have on cp3 that few seem to bring up is his defense. His raw defense statistics would tell you otherwise but his stature seems to hinder him and it will only get worst as he ages and gain nagging injuries. With that being said his craftiness will just about make up for his stature besides the rare occasions of facing physically gifted pg's like Rose and Westbrook at there best.

5b. Rose- Despite his defensive numbers that are dependent on thibs scheme Rose will and should improve his pick and roll defense (which is his main defensive weakness). His iso/man to man defense will continue to improve along with his defensive positioning, like it did last year.

Rose will also have to be more selective in his shots, which will come natural with more fire power. Contrary to popular belief on this forum it is not his natural motive to take the amount of shots he took last year. This will come to light when more fire power is added at the 2 guard spot. If those things are improved he leap frogs kobe (if he didn't last year) and starts his assault on cp3 and Wade to be the best Guard in the league.

Sadds The Gr8
07-23-2011, 05:02 PM
Team success doesn't equal individual talent... Dirk sucked in the Finals and was carried by his teammates, if they lost it was because he shot 42%.

Besides, a player who doesn't make the all nba 1st team and has never been in any all nba defensive teams can't be considered as the best player..simple as that. It has probably never happened in the history of the game.
:facepalm:

GhostfaceDrilla
07-23-2011, 05:25 PM
So whoever wins the championship or knocks another team out of the playoffs means they are automatically better than them? By that logic Jason Terry > Dwyane Wade.

Durant is a better two way player already, and is the best scorer in the NBA. Dirk will be a year older, and Durant will be a year smarter. If Durant wasn't already better than Dirk thru last regular season (Dirk played better through playoffs), then for sure he should be better in 2011-2012.

The OP asks for the top 5 players, don't feel disrespected or take it personal if some people have Durant there and not Dirk, as for all you know Dirk might have been sixth in their top 10, but the topic is only about 5.

Durant may average nearly 30 a game but Dirk is still a better offensive player. Dirk is a better 3 point shooter, better Ft Shooter, and FG shooter. Mid range not even close. Offensively, the only thing Durant has on Dirk is the fact that he is 23 and very athletic so he can slash (sometimes) and make a good dunk, layup, etc... However, Dirk has developed a very solid postgame over the past few years. He torched OKC down low. Both of his Finals game winners were slashing layups. Not bad for a player who is only a jump shooter, which many say. Rebounding is about the same. Passing goes to Dirk. He is very solid in his passing while Durant is a ball hog. Defense. What does Durant do that makes anyone say he is a better defender? It's because he is a 6'9, athletic, black man who is 23. Seriously that's the truth. Dirk is a solid defender but gets knocked for it because.... well I don't want to get banned but we all know why. Clutch? Not even close. Dirk is the most clutch player in the game while Durant still needs alot of practice on that.

The only thing Durant has on Dirk is points statistically, youth, and athleticism. In 2 years, yes Durant will be better.

naps
07-23-2011, 05:30 PM
obviously no one shares your way of determining who the best player is, i guess chauncey bllups was the best when the pistons won it or paul pierce when the celts won it.

* waits for response that says YES they were the best

Exactly. He just doesn't wanna admit it. No one agrees with him except a few mavs fans.



Wait for the copy-paste jesus with bunch of team stats and HCA..it's coming...;)

knightstemplar
07-23-2011, 05:32 PM
1. Wade

dont know the rest

naps
07-23-2011, 05:33 PM
:facepalm:

:facepalm::facepalm:

GhostfaceDrilla
07-23-2011, 05:35 PM
obviously no one shares your way of determining who the best player is, i guess chauncey bllups was the best when the pistons won it or paul pierce when the celts won it.

* waits for response that says YES they were the best

I'm sorry, did you watch Dirk? Oh, he didn't have many Top 10 plays on Sportscenter or he wasn't constantly cracking jokes on NBA TNT, or he wasn't in the media 24/7...

Oh you're a Raptors fan I think. That explains it... LOL Raptors...

naps
07-23-2011, 05:35 PM
1. Wade

dont know the rest

The guy is underrated by many.

DoMeFavors
07-23-2011, 05:35 PM
Deron
Wade
LeBron
Durant
Dwight

JordansBulls
07-23-2011, 06:10 PM
obviously no one shares your way of determining who the best player is, i guess chauncey bllups was the best when the pistons won it or paul pierce when the celts won it.

* waits for response that says YES they were the best

Except Billups wasn't even the allstar on the team it was Ben Wallace, and Pierce didn't lead the Celtics in PER nor Win Shares and had two other guys produce as much as him. Dirk willed that team to the title. They were 2-7 without him and they were missing 3 players. He was the best player on the floor in every series.

beasted86
07-23-2011, 09:59 PM
Durant may average nearly 30 a game but Dirk is still a better offensive player. Dirk is a better 3 point shooter, better Ft Shooter, and FG shooter. Mid range not even close. Offensively, the only thing Durant has on Dirk is the fact that he is 23 and very athletic so he can slash (sometimes) and make a good dunk, layup, etc... However, Dirk has developed a very solid postgame over the past few years. He torched OKC down low. Both of his Finals game winners were slashing layups. Not bad for a player who is only a jump shooter, which many say. Rebounding is about the same. Passing goes to Dirk. He is very solid in his passing while Durant is a ball hog. Defense. What does Durant do that makes anyone say he is a better defender? It's because he is a 6'9, athletic, black man who is 23. Seriously that's the truth. Dirk is a solid defender but gets knocked for it because.... well I don't want to get banned but we all know why. Clutch? Not even close. Dirk is the most clutch player in the game while Durant still needs alot of practice on that.

The only thing Durant has on Dirk is points statistically, youth, and athleticism. In 2 years, yes Durant will be better.

First thing, better offensive player does not equal better scorer. Chris Paul is by far the best offensive PG in the NBA, but he's surely not the best scoring PG at all. Durant is the best scorer in the NBA because of his shooting range as well as knack of getting to the basket or foul line. He's clearly not the best offensive player because he hasn't learned to be a playmaker with his passing.

Secondly, there's no doubt Durant is a better defensive player. Aside from simply watching the fundamentals of the two, the stats favor Durant. More blocks, more steals, better rebounder in comparison to position played, etc. Dirk is always gambling on a stripping the ball 9 out of 10 times he defends the post. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it's overall not fundamentally sound to swipe at the ball like that.

Overall the players are very close in overall impact and rankings, but like I said this is a 2011-2012 prediction thread of the top 5, it doesn't mean Dirk isn't like 6th or 7th. IMO he is, 7th if you are asking me personally, right behind Kobe. Again Kobe gets the nod because of his two way ability + better passing.

beasted86
07-23-2011, 10:07 PM
Except Billups wasn't even the allstar on the team it was Ben Wallace, and Pierce didn't lead the Celtics in PER nor Win Shares and had two other guys produce as much as him. Dirk willed that team to the title. They were 2-7 without him and they were missing 3 players. He was the best player on the floor in every series.

Don't worry, your agenda is clear as usual.

tredigs
07-23-2011, 10:34 PM
Don't worry, your agenda is clear as usual.

If in 10 years it is divulged that JB was a sophisticated (yet redundant) 'bot', everything will make sense.

naps
07-24-2011, 05:19 PM
If in 10 years it is divulged that JB was a sophisticated (yet redundant) 'bot', everything will make sense.

:clap:

JordansBulls
07-24-2011, 05:31 PM
Don't worry, your agenda is clear as usual.

Yes because showing a player who actually won league mvp in the past and is the only allstar on his team and who was missing 3 players, and whose team had a worse SRS rating, worse Defensive rating, worse offensive rating, worse record, lower ppg average win is having an agenda, especially when the said player did this.:rolleyes:



Dirk Nowitzki and Mavs become first team in NBA history

To defeat three teams that each had a

ALL-NBA 1st team player and ALL-NBA 2nd team player:

Kobe and Gasol
Durant and Westbrook
LeBron and Wade

Not to mention all the other contestants lost with HCA in the playoffs and the other went 7 games with an 8th seed.

gopacers24
07-24-2011, 07:54 PM
1.Lebron
2.D-Wade
3.Dirk
4.Dwight Howard
5.D-Rose

PHXfanCRO
07-24-2011, 08:02 PM
Chris Paul is by far the best offensive PG in the NBA, but he's surely not the best scoring PG at all.

you sure about that :)
as for the topic in no oreder:
LeBron
Wade
Howard
Dirk
Durant

beasted86
07-24-2011, 08:18 PM
you sure about that :)

Paul > Nash. :cool:

Youmad?
07-24-2011, 08:51 PM
If we are going off last year then it's

Dwight
Lebron
Wade
Paul
Kobe/durant/rose in that order

But going into next season I have
Kobe,Dwight,Lebron
Paul/wade/rose/durant/dirk/Williams/griffin all in that order

Yes call me crazy but I think Kobe will reclaim the number one spot next year again he will be healthy and well rested for the first time In like forever, new coach, new system which will allow him to be more aggressive both individually and as a team player, not to mention defensively he will have to step it up again since mike brown is one of the best defensive coaches around. Btw I have been on twitter alot lately and people in the Philippines who I follow on twitter keep saying Kobe lookes like he's 25 again, they keep saying how he's gotten younger atleast basketball athletic wise I'm calling it right now Kobe will end up as the MVP or #2 right behind Dwight Howard anybody wanna sig bet me?

LakersA's49ers
07-24-2011, 09:09 PM
Kobe, Fisher, Odom, Bynum, and Gasol with Artest a close 6th :)

Ebbs
07-25-2011, 03:09 AM
LeBron
CP3
Dwight
Dirk
Rose/Wade

Raph12
07-25-2011, 05:05 AM
The Rose vs CP3 arguements are laughable; CP3 is head-over-heels better than Rose atm, let alone prior to his injuries (2007-08/2008-09). CP3 had the best statistical season of any PG in league history in 09 and despite his injuries, he's proved time and time again that he's the best PG in the league right now. Accolades do not make you a better player; just like Wilt was better than Russell individually, despite his extremely impressive accomplishments/accolades... Now what will happen in the future is speculation, but CP3 is definitely better right now.

CHANGO
07-25-2011, 12:44 PM
Let's listen to the experts.

1. Who's the best point guard in the NBA today?


Jovan Buha, ClipperBlog: Chris Paul. When healthy, there's no denying Paul's stature, especially after his brilliant display against the Lakers this postseason. His combination of vision, patience, grace, tenacity and selflessness allows him to dismantle the league's best defenses, dominate his opponents and execute plays that seem impossible.

Rob Mahoney, The Two Man Game: I may be in denial (or simply ignorant of the impact of his oddly frequent no-show performances), but I still lean toward Chris Paul. His court sense is absolutely impeccable, and the ease with which he scores somehow still flies under the radar. Package that dominant offensive skill set with good anticipatory D and innate leadership ability, and even the rest of the point guard elite can't quite keep pace.

Beckley Mason, HoopSpeak: Chris Paul's the best point guard in the NBA because he's an elite 3-point shooter who scores and assists efficiently while captaining a suspect cast to impressive offensive efficiency in clutch moments -- and because he can still turn your ankles to powder (ask Drew Bynum). Paul combines all that skill with supreme moxie and an inspirational leadership style.

Rob Peterson, Hardwood Paroxysm: Derrick Rose. No less an authority than Kobe Bryant called Rose a bad mutha. Rose proved it by winning the '11 MVP. Rose may be five inches shorter than LeBron James, but he has LeBron's all-around skill set and is a fiercer competitor. If he can develop a consistent jumper, Rose, already dangerous, could be unstoppable.

Royce Young, Daily Thunder: It's the ever-changing answer depending on who's hot at the time. After a big assist night, it's Rajon Rondo. After a crazy fourth-quarter takeover, it's Deron Williams. After an MVP, it's Derrick Rose. But there's one constant, one guy that's always good. And that's Chris Paul. Still the best, no doubt.

Chris Paul - 4
Derrick Rose - 1
Winner - Chris Paul :clap:

Link: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-110725/point-guard-ratings

GhostfaceDrilla
07-25-2011, 02:02 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Chris Paul

Cool007
07-25-2011, 02:25 PM
Top 5 last year and for the next year.

Dwight
LeBron
D-Wade
Durant
D-Rose

Gators123
07-25-2011, 02:28 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Chris Pauk
5. Kevin Durant

or


Rank Player Age PER Rk WS48 Rk bopSPM Rk RAPM Rk Hi Lo Tot
1 LeBron James 27 28.51 1 0.263 1 7.71 1 8.3 1 1 1 2
2 Dwight Howard 26 25.22 3 0.229 3 6.64 2 5.7 9 9 2 6
3 Dwyane Wade 30 26.30 2 0.216 5 6.26 3 6.1 7 7 2 8
4 Chris Paul 26 24.27 5 0.230 2 5.26 5 6.0 8 8 2 10
4 Kevin Durant 23 24.35 4 0.200 6 5.32 4 3.0 31 31 4 10

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9780

This.

JordansBulls
07-25-2011, 03:59 PM
The Rose vs CP3 arguements are laughable; CP3 is head-over-heels better than Rose atm, let alone prior to his injuries (2007-08/2008-09). CP3 had the best statistical season of any PG in league history in 09 and despite his injuries, he's proved time and time again that he's the best PG in the league right now. Accolades do not make you a better player; just like Wilt was better than Russell individually, despite his extremely impressive accomplishments/accolades... Now what will happen in the future is speculation, but CP3 is definitely better right now.

2008 CP3 is better than Rose, but 2011 was not.

ManRam
07-25-2011, 04:03 PM
LeBron
Dwight
Paul
Dirk
Wade