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fatkev78
07-21-2011, 07:45 AM
Teams in need of bullpen help are contacting the Blue Jays about their wide array of setup types.
Turns out the Jays are looking for relievers, too.
The Jays have inquired about the Padres’ available bullpen parts, including closer Heath Bell, according to major league sources.
What are the Jays thinking?
It’s possible they want to acquire a reliever to spin him to another club. Then again, the Jays rank next to last in save percentage in the American League. They might want a genuine closer for next season.
Bell is a potential free agent, but the Jays would stand a better chance of signing him if they acquired him now and began the recruiting process while he was part of their club. At worst, they could offer him arbitration and collect two high draft picks if he left as a Type A free agent, helping replace the players they lost in the trade.
Padres setup man Mike Adams also could close, and he is not eligible for free agency until after next season. Padres owner Jeff Moorad told Adams last week that he was “not going anywhere,” according to Yahoo! Sports. But Adams, too, would fit for the Jays.
Of course, the Jays’ pursuits of the Padres relievers might prove nothing more than exercises in futility – the Cardinals, Reds, Rangers, Yankees and Phillies are among the other teams bidding for Bell and Adams, sources say.
As for the Jays trading their own relievers, don’t count on it. Right-handers Jon Rauch, Jason Frasor and Octavio Dotel all signed one-year deals with club options last offseason. The options enhance their respective values – and actually make them more difficult to move.
Rauch, Frasor and Dotel are likely Type B free agents. A team that trades for one of the three could exercise his option and keep him for next season. Or, the team could decline the option, offer arbitration and gain a supplemental draft pick if the pitcher leaves as a free agent.
The Jays were in similar positions last offseason with Frasor and two other relievers, lefty Scott Downs and righty Kevin Gregg. The team offered arbitration to all three. Downs and Gregg left as free agents. Frasor accepted arbitration and signed his new deal.
— Ken Rosenthal

http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/jays_selling_relievers_and_buying_too/5642287?new_post=true

JaysFan87
07-21-2011, 09:50 AM
Its not true.

North Yorker
07-21-2011, 09:55 AM
T.O. Fan suggested in the Trade Idea thread that with the recent news that Philly is making Singleton available that maybe TOR,SD and PHI are working on a 3 way deal.

To Philly:Bell
To Tor:Singleton
To SD: Tor specs

Since Singleton is Philly's best trade piece and SD already has Rizzo in the fold so their needs dont match up.

StayOnBoard
07-21-2011, 10:05 AM
Its not true.

So much fact - not sure how you managed to write it all in 3 little words :rolleyes:

Of course its true - its been confirmed by Rosenthal as well. Jays are looking at Bell

JaysFan87
07-21-2011, 10:09 AM
AA doesnt work like that. All his trades have been under the radar. I suspect that this is simple AA doing his due diligence on the trade market. I don't know if I would be comfortable with a trade that forces the jays to give up good prospects for a closer that you then have to pay boat loads of money to keep.

Bob_at_york
07-21-2011, 10:12 AM
I don't understand why we want to acquire Bell but i trust that AA has a plan.

scottythegreat1
07-21-2011, 10:17 AM
We dont have to give up any of our players....BUT We have so many bullpen arms that we could possibly trade so our team is coming up in trade talks.

GNick
07-21-2011, 10:23 AM
Heath Bell going to be quite the gamble...price be high to acquire then the big money to sign him

StayOnBoard
07-21-2011, 10:24 AM
Maybe they want to get him and then flip him to a team like the Phillies (as mentioned above).

Dol-Fan
07-21-2011, 10:26 AM
Maybe they want to get him and then flip him to a team like the Phillies (as mentioned above).

That seems like the most likely option to me..

GNick
07-21-2011, 10:40 AM
T.O. Fan suggested in the Trade Idea thread that with the recent news that Philly is making Singleton available that maybe TOR,SD and PHI are working on a 3 way deal.

To Philly:Bell
To Tor:Singleton
To SD: Tor specs

Since Singleton is Philly's best trade piece and SD already has Rizzo in the fold so their needs dont match up.

Price will be high for Jays to make this trade. Many teams after Bell and the "Tor specs" we give up for him will need to be mind boggling. That is a lot to gamble on a Class A player.

T.O. Fan
07-21-2011, 11:04 AM
Price will be high for Jays to make this trade. Many teams after Bell and the "Tor specs" we give up for him will need to be mind boggling. That is a lot to gamble on a Class A player.

What have elite BP arms gone for in the past?

Last year I believe Matt Capps was dealt for Wilson Ramos. I can't think of any higher price off the top of my head.

Dol-Fan
07-21-2011, 11:06 AM
What have elite BP arms gone for in the past?

Last year I believe Matt Capps was dealt for Wilson Ramos. I can't think of any higher price off the top of my head.

Brad Lidge for Michael Bourn?

bomber0104
07-21-2011, 12:08 PM
I'm not getting myself worked up here until a move is actually made... so far in AA's tenure, if something is mentioned in the open, its probably not happening

bartron_44
07-21-2011, 12:29 PM
I think AA just wants a solid closer for the second half, and a TYPE A free agent that other teams are going to want to sign to a long term deal if we can't sign him to one. Remeber, if we had just 5 fewer blown saves in the first half (we had 15 by my count), we would be 54-44. Combine that with an offense that has exploded since adding Thames (the 2nd time) and Snider, and we could go on a nice little roll in the second half.

Type A free agents in today's world of compensation picks are HUGE! I have a feeling AA knows next year there will still be compensation. We have a number of pitchers that are going to be ready around the same time, as Dunedin and NH are both filled with good looking starters. Since we seem to promote our best pitching specs straight from AA, we are going to have a log jam of starters in the near future.


Alvarez
Stewart
Carreno
Deck
Molina
Hutchison
Jenkins
Wojo


Plus, we have guys like Drabek,Litsch,McGowan and even Mills after the way he has pitched in the PCL this year fighting for a spot in our rotation.All of the above should be ready after no longer then 2 more years in minors, and many of them much sooner. We could easily trade a couple arms for a solid closer and not skip a beat with our rotation, and if he doesn't end up here for the long haul, we will replace those arms with the compensation picks.

Now, just for second, imagine we did acquire Bell instead of trading our own BP arms? We would have a bullpen of:

Bell
Francisco
Frasor
Dotel
Rauch
Scrabbles
Jannsen


That is just NASTY! We could even trade one of Rauch,Francisco or Dotel for specs (or a new second baseman), and simply promote Perez to get another lefty in the bullpen, and still be lights out.

Kaylon
07-21-2011, 01:02 PM
People seem to be focusing a lot on the fact that AA doesn't do business publicly, which I love and is true, BUT that's not to say that the Padres feel like doing it that way... Heath Bell has what 27 saves so far? That's not something that we could complain about.... The biggest problem I have with it is who we trade but we have a few duplicate positions in the minors and with Thames Lawrie and Snider all to be big pieces than I think we can give up some to get an actual closer

Kelly Gruber
07-21-2011, 01:14 PM
Knowing AA, it would be part of a bigger 3 team trade if anything. Although I wouldn't be opposed to having Heath Bell close games next year. Difference in a few wins already this year he would be.

Bombtista
07-21-2011, 01:31 PM
Our offence is not a problem as over the next few years it will develop into a bigger force than it is today so to get some proven pitchers here would be fantastic

GNick
07-21-2011, 01:45 PM
What have elite BP arms gone for in the past?

Last year I believe Matt Capps was dealt for Wilson Ramos. I can't think of any higher price off the top of my head.

Capps isn't Bell. If Bell would go that cheap he'd already been traded 10 times over. It is like Barton said...2 first round picks are huge.

StayOnBoard
07-21-2011, 01:48 PM
Capps isn't Bell. If Bell would go that cheap he'd already been traded 10 times over. It is like Barton said...2 first round picks are huge.

Not really... Its good but I wouldn't call two picks in the 16-40 range "huge".

Shifty1 69
07-21-2011, 01:58 PM
Has Bells K/9 rate not plummetted to a sub 7 rate?? Has his walks not gone up?
I dont think he'd be a detriment to the bullpen by any means, but I'd be hesitant to pay a lot for his services (and pending free agency)... draft picks are all fine and dandy, but trading 1 or 2 prospects that have a season or 3 of development under their belts for the potential 1 or 2 picks. Doesnt make a ton of sense to me.

Shifty1 69
07-21-2011, 02:02 PM
Capps isn't Bell. If Bell would go that cheap he'd already been traded 10 times over. It is like Barton said...2 first round picks are huge.

Marginally better than a 4th rounder in a slotted system. IMO
If you are willing to pay (which the Jays apparently are), you can get 1st rd talent much later.

I wouldnt mind Bell, but removing key young talent for a closer is risky.

Krylian
07-21-2011, 02:09 PM
Marginally better than a 4th rounder in a slotted system. IMO
If you are willing to pay (which the Jays apparently are), you can get 1st rd talent much later.

I wouldnt mind Bell, but removing key young talent for a closer is risky.

How do we know it's "key" talent?

Have there been actual names mentioned?

TO Rapz
07-21-2011, 03:18 PM
As long as we dont give up anything too important, i d be happy, i like heath, and more so, i trust AA to not do something stupid.

Its been a while since i ve been able to say that about a TO GM, so i wouldnt get too worked up about this.

Luca68
07-21-2011, 03:24 PM
anybody notice the unreal bend on heath bells hat, itslike traingular shape its pretty g... just sayin.

yea like most people have said as long as were not giving up anything too important im good with this.

PJ Awesome
07-21-2011, 04:27 PM
HAH! won't happen.

jaysnraptors44
07-21-2011, 08:58 PM
get er done .. hopefully for not to many prospects look at what milwaukee did for fransisco they basically give up nothing .. jays need a damn closer thats for sure .. so do the best u can AA

Jay
07-21-2011, 09:57 PM
AA is doing his due diligence here. As protective as he is over his specs, as soon as he finds out the astronomical price the Pads are asking in exchange for Heath's [rental] services, he'll quickly dismiss the possibility of a trade.

FlakeyFool
07-21-2011, 10:24 PM
I'd be scared every time he runs out to the mound and slides into it

Converged
07-21-2011, 11:18 PM
#BlueJays scouted Kevin Slowey's rehab start last night. They've been intrigued by him since spring.

http://twitter.com/#!/jonmorosi/status/94209633492803584

Jamiecballer
07-22-2011, 12:48 PM
imo it would be silly to invest anything in the bullpen until our starters have improved. nobody looks good in an overworked bullpen.

North Yorker
07-22-2011, 01:44 PM
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
The Blue Jays currently have four relievers projected as Type B. Some teams convinced TOR's interest in Heath Bell all about Type A status.


http://twitter.com/#!/Buster_ESPN

Nels@Ryerson
07-22-2011, 02:28 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/Buster_ESPN

Dammit! they are on to your plan AA!

scotttube
07-22-2011, 03:16 PM
AA is a compensation pick whore

es0terik
07-22-2011, 06:23 PM
AA is a compensation pick whore

Made me lol. :clap:

Billyen
07-22-2011, 09:38 PM
AA is a compensation pick whore

And I love him for that.

Firstly, everyone needs to remember the SD plays in a pitcher friendly park. Every-time a pitcher leaves there, the ERA goes up.

AA could want to make 1 last big splash in the draft before he becomes a buyer so MAYBE that's what he's up too with this Bell stuff. I don't like it as SD will want prospects. However we do have a lot more now so maybe AA thinking quality, not quantity.

I hate guessing names as you all go nuts but, if we didn't want to give up too many prospects we could go after Bell AND Adams for Morrow, catcher prospect, another prospect. (we are starting to collect extra pieces)

AA goes in to FA or trade to fill that rotation spot. Adam becomes closer or we get 2 more picks for him in 2013.

AA could aim to get 2-3 first round picks and 10+ comps in 2012. That would restock anything we gave up. I think AA is trying to get more quality prospects now like Lawrie.

Of course we need to stay under the 15th pick. I do know AA has a plan and I don't know what it is but...I LOVE IT!!!

bomber0104
07-22-2011, 10:03 PM
AA is a compensation pick whore

and who doesn't like a whore

town123
07-23-2011, 08:42 AM
And I love him for that.

Firstly, everyone needs to remember the SD plays in a pitcher friendly park. Every-time a pitcher leaves there, the ERA goes up.

AA could want to make 1 last big splash in the draft before he becomes a buyer so MAYBE that's what he's up too with this Bell stuff. I don't like it as SD will want prospects. However we do have a lot more now so maybe AA thinking quality, not quantity.

I hate guessing names as you all go nuts but, if we didn't want to give up too many prospects we could go after Bell AND Adams for Morrow, catcher prospect, another prospect. (we are starting to collect extra pieces)

AA goes in to FA or trade to fill that rotation spot. Adam becomes closer or we get 2 more picks for him in 2013.

AA could aim to get 2-3 first round picks and 10+ comps in 2012. That would restock anything we gave up. I think AA is trying to get more quality prospects now like Lawrie.

Of course we need to stay under the 15th pick. I do know AA has a plan and I don't know what it is but...I LOVE IT!!!

Trade Morrow? That's just crazy talk. Ask every team in the league to name the P they would want from the Jays and I think it would be Morrow across the board. Pick another P to trade.

Twitchy
07-23-2011, 08:48 AM
Trading for Bell is a step backwards even if you get compensation picks. San Diego isn't going to trade Bell for less than his comp value. Even if by chance you get equal value, you've taken a step back because the prospects you're trading are a year or two (at least) closer to the majors than any draft pick.

This trade makes no sense for the Jays.

T.O. Fan
07-23-2011, 09:29 AM
Trading for Bell is a step backwards even if you get compensation picks. San Diego isn't going to trade Bell for less than his comp value. Even if by chance you get equal value, you've taken a step back because the prospects you're trading are a year or two (at least) closer to the majors than any draft pick.

This trade makes no sense for the Jays.

Unless it's part of a multi team deal.

GNick
07-23-2011, 10:59 AM
Trading for Bell is a step backwards even if you get compensation picks. San Diego isn't going to trade Bell for less than his comp value. Even if by chance you get equal value, you've taken a step back because the prospects you're trading are a year or two (at least) closer to the majors than any draft pick.

This trade makes no sense for the Jays.

The compensation picks are a fall back in case they can't get Bell signed. What Anthpoulos is offering is pay more than 2 draft picks for opportunity to get to know Bell better before spending the big bucks on him. I doubt Jays will trade for Bell as price to acquire will be huge as many playoff teams are pursuing him also. I have a hunch it will be the Cardinals or Phillies where he ends up.

The Jays could really use him as addition of closer this team could have a good second half. The season is gone but even if Jays had an average closer this season the club will be somewhere between the Ray and Yankees right now in standings. Toronto is leading the league in blown saves. Plus, the addition of another big bat in Lawrie who I suspect will be called up in near future. And Reyes taken out of rotation this team could have an excellent second half.

Twitchy
07-23-2011, 11:01 AM
Unless it's part of a multi team deal.

In which case the Jays likely aren't getting compensation picks, which kind of proves my point. And if they are, they're not as valuable as the prospects the Jays are flipping to get Bell. So it still makes no sense regardless of who is involved.


The compensation picks are a fall back in case they can't get Bell signed. What Anthpoulos is offering is pay more than 2 draft picks for opportunity to get to know Bell better before spending the big bucks on him. I doubt Jays will trade for Bell as price to acquire will be huge as many playoff teams are pursuing him also. I have a hunch it will be the Cardinals or Phillies where he ends up.

The Jays could really use him as addition of closer this team could have a good second half. Even if Jays had an average closer this season the club will be somewhere between the Ray and Yankees right now in standings. Plus, the addition of another big bat in Lawrie who I suspect will be called up in near future.

But again, why would you trade for a 33 or whatever year old closer on a rebuilding club? And risk said prospects for ones with less upside and who are further away from the majors? That's taking a step back, not forwards. Finishing third is kind of irrelevant. If you're not making the playoffs what difference is third or fourth? It's arguably WORSE, because you cost your self a better first round pick by getting ahead of the Rays.

I'd rather draft (hypothetically) 14th in the first round, keep the prospects, and get no compensation then draft 16th in the first, lose our prospects in AA and get a pick in the late 30's. And nobodys gonna waste a first rounder by signing Bell, so let's not pretend we're acquiring an extra first rounder here.

GNick
07-23-2011, 11:23 AM
In which case the Jays likely aren't getting compensation picks, which kind of proves my point. And if they are, they're not as valuable as the prospects the Jays are flipping to get Bell. So it still makes no sense regardless of who is involved.



But again, why would you trade for a 33 or whatever year old closer on a rebuilding club? And risk said prospects for ones with less upside and who are further away from the majors? That's taking a step back, not forwards. Finishing third is kind of irrelevant. If you're not making the playoffs what difference is third or fourth? It's arguably WORSE, because you cost your self a better first round pick by getting ahead of the Rays.

I'd rather draft (hypothetically) 14th in the first round, keep the prospects, and get no compensation then draft 16th in the first, lose our prospects in AA and get a pick in the late 30's. And nobodys gonna waste a first rounder by signing Bell, so let's not pretend we're acquiring an extra first rounder here.

I suspect Jays will go after it next season and out of the rebuilding phrase. I would be totally suprised if they enter 2012 with similar bullpen to what we have in 2011. However, I highly doubt Jays will acquire Bell. The price on him must be sky high at this time of year because so many top teams after him. I suspect the price have quieted the trade talk with Toronto.

Anthopoulos was motivated to try to acquire Bell because it is so hard to get a closer of his caliber. He didn't want to risk throwing the big money at another possible BJ Ryan without knowing him a lot better first. Just one of Alex's way, agree with it or not is another story, but Alex values a person's character, clubhouse effect and work ethic more than most GMs. What Alex was trying for is see if Jays could match up in trade for Bell. Offering up more value than 2 picks in return for chance to get to know Bell better. That is just AA and his ways.

Nofear
07-23-2011, 12:16 PM
In which case the Jays likely aren't getting compensation picks, which kind of proves my point. And if they are, they're not as valuable as the prospects the Jays are flipping to get Bell. So it still makes no sense regardless of who is involved.



But again, why would you trade for a 33 or whatever year old closer on a rebuilding club? And risk said prospects for ones with less upside and who are further away from the majors? That's taking a step back, not forwards. Finishing third is kind of irrelevant. If you're not making the playoffs what difference is third or fourth? It's arguably WORSE, because you cost your self a better first round pick by getting ahead of the Rays.

I'd rather draft (hypothetically) 14th in the first round, keep the prospects, and get no compensation then draft 16th in the first, lose our prospects in AA and get a pick in the late 30's. And nobodys gonna waste a first rounder by signing Bell, so let's not pretend we're acquiring an extra first rounder here.

Everything you say makes perfect sense and I agree 100%.

The only thing I can think of to do this deal might be the fact that the Jays are starting to get a log jam of prospects. Perhaps this is the first move of the more serious building (acquiring FA and trades) that has been talked about?

There's no reason to do this deal unless the cupboard is too full and the build plan is moved to the next step. Comp pick isn't going to make up for whats going to be given up as you said

GNick
07-23-2011, 12:37 PM
Everything you say makes perfect sense and I agree 100%.

The only thing I can think of to do this deal might be the fact that the Jays are starting to get a log jam of prospects. Perhaps this is the first move of the more serious building (acquiring FA and trades) that has been talked about?

There's no reason to do this deal unless the cupboard is too full and the build plan is moved to the next step. Comp pick isn't going to make up for whats going to be given up as you said

Logjam of prospects, need for a closer, has to be something or AA wouldn't have entered the Heath Bell trade talk.

nithanyo
07-23-2011, 12:41 PM
People who think no ones gonna sign bell in the first round are mistaken. A lot of teams are desperate for closing pitching and a pitcher like Bell is going to get demand since the FA class is thin on relievers. This isn't jason frasor.

I would do a Cecil for Bell trade. Worst case scenario we get 2 comp picks. Best case scenario we get a proven closer without giving up picks. IMO Cecil has peaked.

Nofear
07-23-2011, 12:47 PM
People who think no ones gonna sign bell in the first round are mistaken. A lot of teams are desperate for closing pitching and a pitcher like Bell is going to get demand since the FA class is thin on relievers. This isn't jason frasor.

I would do a Cecil for Bell trade. Worst case scenario we get 2 comp picks. Best case scenario we get a proven closer without giving up picks. IMO Cecil has peaked.

That would be bad if your worse case came out and Bell left. Cecil, an MLB level LHP, for two comp picks is bad.

North Yorker
07-23-2011, 12:52 PM
People who think no ones gonna sign bell in the first round are mistaken. A lot of teams are desperate for closing pitching and a pitcher like Bell is going to get demand since the FA class is thin on relievers. This isn't jason frasor.

I would do a Cecil for Bell trade. Worst case scenario we get 2 comp picks. Best case scenario we get a proven closer without giving up picks. IMO Cecil has peaked.

I dont agree that Cecil has peaked but I would be open to moving him in the right deal.

Maybe Cecil+ 1 or 2 position player spec(s) to the M's for Fister.

He's dirt cheap through 2015, would be that ideal 3rd or 4th starter for the next few years as we wait for our higher ceiling pitching specs to develop.

The M's farm is lacking after the Pineda and Ackley promotions and they are starving for offense.

Fister's road/home splits are a lot better than they were last year so hopefully if we got him he would turn out to not just be a product of Safeco.

bomber0104
07-23-2011, 12:58 PM
i'm not interested in Bell as a closer for this team.. i mean the guy has a K/9 around 6.50 which is terrible for a closer and a K/BB ratio at less than 2..

I can't see us giving enough in a straight up deal for Bell because the Padres will ask for top prospects.. I could however see us getting him in a multi team deal in which the Jays trade some of their relievers to other teams to get the prospects needs to get Bell

darius
07-23-2011, 02:46 PM
and who doesn't like a whore

If "Pretty Woman" is any indication, all whores have a heart of gold.

Nofear
07-23-2011, 03:08 PM
If "Pretty Woman" is any indication, all whores have a heart of gold.

You should ban yourself from the forum for admitting you watched Pretty Woman

GNick
07-23-2011, 03:29 PM
I'm quite sure Bell is a guy Anthopoulos is after, it fits in exactly to what AA was saying on FAN590 last week, I started a thread on it somewhere lower down if you want to listen to AA interview. Basically AA said one thing they were open to at the deadline was obtaining a player that was a free agent and the end of the year if it was a player they wanted to sign as a free agent. AA said this way they had time to sell the player on the city as well as evaluate the player prior to committing the big money to him.

ByShine
07-25-2011, 09:50 PM
figure out the rotation for starting pitchers first.. relief pitcher is nothing to worry about before any of that..
our starting 5 is weak