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Mile High Champ
07-19-2011, 11:31 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last three years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 2 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

2011 Off Season SF Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Paul Pierce
5) Andre Iguodala
6) Danny Granger
7) Luol Deng
8) Rudy Gay
9)
10)



2010 Off Season SF Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Gerald Wallace
7) Andre Iguodala
8) Rudy Gay
9) Luol Deng
10) Ron Artest

2009 Off Season SF Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Carmelo Anthony
3) Kevin Durant
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Andre Iguodala
7) Caron Butler
8) Hedo Turkoglu
9) Ron Artest
10) Stephen Jackson

2008 Off-Season SF rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Paul Pierce
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Caron Butler
5) Ron Artest
6) Shawn Marion
7) Josh Smith
8) Richard Jefferson
9) Lamar Odom
10) Tayshaun Prince

Mile High Champ
07-19-2011, 11:34 AM
Lets start voting!

nygiants242
07-19-2011, 11:35 AM
Wallace for me.

Mile High Champ
07-19-2011, 11:39 AM
Here is a comparison of 6 guys on the poll. You can make a good argument for Marion, Wallace, Wright or Gallinari.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=wallage01&y1=2011&p2=gallida01&y2=2011&p3=wrighdo01&y3=2011&p4=mariosh01&y4=2011&p5=chandwi01&y5=2011&p6=hillgr01&y6=2011

As much as I like Wallace, his man on man D last year was very average. He was nowhere near as good as he was in that 2009-10 year.

aussie
07-19-2011, 11:43 AM
can u add ariza to the next list please

haggis
07-19-2011, 11:43 AM
Crash.

Mile High Champ
07-19-2011, 11:48 AM
can u add ariza to the next list please

Do you think he would actually get votes. Despite being one of the better perimeter defenders in the league, he maybe the worst offensive player in the league.

ewmania
07-19-2011, 11:53 AM
it goes to wallace or gallo

but i vote for gerald... his jumpshot needs improvement but everything about him is pretty much dominate

nycericanguy
07-19-2011, 11:56 AM
I love Gallo and he could overtake Wallace next season. But right now Wallace is better. Gallo is obviously the better shooter, but Wallace kills him on the boards and with his overall defense.

Gallo also disappears too much, for every 23 point game, he has a 7 point 2-7 FG type of game.

ManRam
07-19-2011, 12:02 PM
Gotta be Crash.

Khalifa21
07-19-2011, 12:09 PM
This should be a runaway for Gerald Wallace.

Crackadalic
07-19-2011, 12:16 PM
Crash

Baller1
07-19-2011, 12:27 PM
Should've been Wallace like 3 polls ago.

Th£~GamÄ
07-19-2011, 12:45 PM
Wallace
Poll #10 might get interesting becuz I dnt like how people here picks gallo, he wasn't that good last year, hill or wright or Marion should get it

Hawkeye15
07-19-2011, 12:56 PM
Wallace. Even though he had a down year for him, he was the best available here.

Sadds The Gr8
07-19-2011, 12:58 PM
Crash

ManningToTyree
07-19-2011, 12:58 PM
Wallace
Poll #10 might get interesting becuz I dnt like how people here picks gallo, he wasn't that good last year, hill or wright or Marion should get it

I know how. Look at the stats and they are either better or the same as those guys for Gallo. Plus he has the most potential.

Crash here then Gallo

Swashcuff
07-19-2011, 01:00 PM
Gerald Wallace quite easily here.

I nominate Thaddeus Young for the next poll.

He finished 3rd in 6MOY voting.

His 18.42 PER is greater than anyone left on this list and quite a few who went before him.

In terms of WS/48 his .139 is better than that of Carmelo Anthony, Batum, Gay, Granger, Marion and Gerlad Wallace among others.

His .566 TS% is better than that of Carmelo, Grant Hill, Batum, Granger, Marion, Gay, Deng and Jeff Green among others.

In terms of SPM (Statistical +/-) he ranks higher than any player left on the list.

Player G Min OSPM DSPM SPM
Thaddeus Young 82 2135 1.08 0.42 1.50
Mike Dunleavy 61 1683 0.95 0.40 1.35
Jared Dudley 82 2140 1.52 -0.43 1.09
Dorell Wright 82 3147 1.13 -0.39 0.74
Al Jefferson 82 2926 1.28 -0.57 0.71
Nicolas Batum 80 2522 1.08 -0.38 0.70
Trevor Ariza 75 2589 -1.90 2.40 0.50
Dan Gallinari 62 2104 1.61 -1.14 0.47
C.J. Miles 78 1951 1.18 -0.89 0.30
Ron Artest 82 2410 -1.43 1.57 0.13
Shawn Marion 80 2253 -0.65 0.67 0.03
Shane Battier 82 2375 -0.87 0.89 0.02
W Chandler 72 2401 -0.23 -0.49 -0.72
Grant Hill 80 2409 -0.19 -0.81 -1.00
Jeff Green 75 2427 -0.62 -0.52 -1.14
M Beasley 73 2361 0.37 -1.94 -1.58

These are facts that just cannot be ignored. IMO Thaddeus Young has a better case than just about anyone left on this list if we're talking about production of last season. He was a HUGE reason why the 76ers had one of the best benches in the NBA and even made the playoffs without a true number one option.

Long story short Young has just about as good of a case as anyone on that list and I'll be campaigning for him in the next thread.

MileHighChamp could you please include him in the next poll and don't leave him off like you did Tony Allen in the SG thread.

LTBaByyy
07-19-2011, 01:40 PM
Wallace then Marion (Caron if he was healthy)

VCaintdead17
07-19-2011, 01:43 PM
Wallace
Poll #10 might get interesting becuz I dnt like how people here picks gallo, he wasn't that good last year, hill or wright or Marion should get it

How was he not good? He had a sky high TS% and also was second on a playoff team in win shares, with 6.1. He played just fine last year.

And yeah, I vote crash here.

VCaintdead17
07-19-2011, 01:46 PM
Gerald Wallace quite easily here.

I nominate Thaddeus Young for the next poll.

He finished 3rd in 6MOY voting.

His 18.42 PER is greater than anyone left on this list and quite a few who went before him.

In terms of WS/48 his .139 is better than that of Carmelo Anthony, Batum, Gay, Granger, Marion and Gerlad Wallace among others.

His .566 TS% is better than that of Carmelo, Grant Hill, Batum, Granger, Marion, Gay, Deng and Jeff Green among others.

In terms of SPM (Statistical +/-) he ranks higher than any player left on the list.

Player G Min OSPM DSPM SPM
Thaddeus Young 82 2135 1.08 0.42 1.50
Mike Dunleavy 61 1683 0.95 0.40 1.35
Jared Dudley 82 2140 1.52 -0.43 1.09
Dorell Wright 82 3147 1.13 -0.39 0.74
Al Jefferson 82 2926 1.28 -0.57 0.71
Nicolas Batum 80 2522 1.08 -0.38 0.70
Trevor Ariza 75 2589 -1.90 2.40 0.50
Dan Gallinari 62 2104 1.61 -1.14 0.47
C.J. Miles 78 1951 1.18 -0.89 0.30
Ron Artest 82 2410 -1.43 1.57 0.13
Shawn Marion 80 2253 -0.65 0.67 0.03
Shane Battier 82 2375 -0.87 0.89 0.02
W Chandler 72 2401 -0.23 -0.49 -0.72
Grant Hill 80 2409 -0.19 -0.81 -1.00
Jeff Green 75 2427 -0.62 -0.52 -1.14
M Beasley 73 2361 0.37 -1.94 -1.58

These are facts that just cannot be ignored. IMO Thaddeus Young has a better case than just about anyone left on this list if we're talking about production of last season. He was a HUGE reason why the 76ers had one of the best benches in the NBA and even made the playoffs without a true number one option.

Long story short Young has just about as good of a case as anyone on that list and I'll be campaigning for him in the next thread.

MileHighChamp could you please include him in the next poll and don't leave him off like you did Tony Allen in the SG thread.

Geez, I didn't know Young shot so well this year.

Chacarron
07-19-2011, 01:49 PM
Crash Bandicoot.

Swashcuff
07-19-2011, 01:53 PM
Geez, I didn't know Young shot so well this year.

Many don't but he was indeed a quality player for us this past season and without his regular season production he wouldn't have been that good this past season.

The only knock I see on Young is if someone says he should not be counted as a SF since he played a great deal of his minutes at the 4 and they consider him a PF and not an SF. IMO he's a natural SF who played out of position due to the make up of our team last season. He guards SFs better than PFs but using his quickness effectively on offense against opposing PFs. Either way in my viewing opinion he's an SF.

VCaintdead17
07-19-2011, 02:01 PM
Yeah I've always thought of him as a small forward. Although I think he did log more minutes at the four this year.

DR_1
07-19-2011, 02:06 PM
Wallace and then Butler. Still think they should be before Granger.

ewmania
07-19-2011, 02:11 PM
cj miles no ariza? thats a little weird lol

b_russ
07-19-2011, 02:25 PM
CJ Miles won't receive a vote in any of the rounds.

Swashcuff
07-19-2011, 02:34 PM
Wallace and then Butler. Still think they should be before Granger.

Not a single bit of common sense in any of your reasoning as to why Granger shouldn't be in the top 10. You guys are real classics you know.

alencp3
07-19-2011, 03:05 PM
no **** crash, beasley should be added to the next poll

roshan3ai
07-19-2011, 03:43 PM
Crash here, Gallo at 10

tyfreaks brotha
07-19-2011, 05:02 PM
Wallace like it should've been since 7 atleast./thread

theheatles
07-19-2011, 05:06 PM
9. gerald wallace
10. dorell wright

Kashmir13579
07-19-2011, 05:33 PM
9. gerald wallace
10. dorell wright

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=wrighdo01&y1=2011&p2=gallida01&y2=2011

Show me where Wright is better than Gallinari.

Something that jumps out at me is Gallo's ORtg of 120 and the fact he shot nearly twice as many FTs as Wright. They are both working with the same USG%, btw.

Swashcuff
07-19-2011, 05:36 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=wrighdo01&y1=2011&p2=gallida01&y2=2011

Show me where Wright is better than Gallinari.

Something that jumps out at me is Gallo's ORtg of 120 and the fact he shot nearly twice as many FTs as Wright. They are both working with the same USG%, btw.

I'm waiting for you at #10 my guy Thaddeus Young (provided the OP actually listens to me and includes him) vs your guy Danillo Gallinari. :violin:

GoPacers33
07-19-2011, 05:53 PM
Danilo

greg_ory_2005
07-19-2011, 06:07 PM
Crash!

Hostetler
07-19-2011, 06:23 PM
Gallinari (ex-homer) but Wallace is a good choice

sixer04fan
07-19-2011, 06:31 PM
Wallace and it's not close. You're kidding yourself if you think it is...

jimbobjarree
07-19-2011, 07:44 PM
Gerald shudda been at #8

Khalifa21
07-19-2011, 08:00 PM
Gerald Wallace should've gone ahead of Gay and I probably have him ahead of Deng as well...

#10 will be pretty interesting, but Gallo should take it.

Kashmir13579
07-19-2011, 08:14 PM
I'm waiting for you at #10 my guy Thaddeus Young (provided the OP actually listens to me and includes him) vs your guy Danillo Gallinari. :violin:

How has he not been added to the poll?:confused:

Thats a tough comparison, Danilo and Thaddeus... Gallo sticks to jumpshots (81% assisted) and Young sticks to high% looks around the rim. (66% assisted)

Thaddeus doesn't shoot 3 pointers so his ORtg isn't that of Gallo's. He also doesn't get to the line close to as much despite being involved in more possessions.

Thaddeus is a better defender (although i think Gallo's D is underrated) and he's a better rebounder.

They both suffered in the playoffs, but Thaddeus got taken completely out of the game. A lot of that probably had to do with who his opponents were.

I think there is no question Gallo is the better scorer out of the 2, but Thaddeus definitely has other qualities going for him.

Kashmir13579
07-19-2011, 08:15 PM
Gerald Wallace should've gone ahead of Gay and I probably have him ahead of Deng as well...

#10 will be pretty interesting, but Gallo should take it.

me too.

Swashcuff
07-19-2011, 08:46 PM
How has he not been added to the poll?:confused:

Thats a tough comparison, Danilo and Thaddeus... Gallo sticks to jumpshots (81% assisted) and Young sticks to high% looks around the rim. (66% assisted)

Thaddeus doesn't shoot 3 pointers so his ORtg isn't that of Gallo's. He also doesn't get to the line close to as much despite being involved in more possessions.

Thaddeus is a better defender (although i think Gallo's D is underrated) and he's a better rebounder.

They both suffered in the playoffs, but Thaddeus got taken completely out of the game. A lot of that probably had to do with who his opponents were.

I think there is no question Gallo is the better scorer out of the 2, but Thaddeus definitely has other qualities going for him.

There is no question whatsoever that Gallo is indeed a better shooter than Thaddues and his knack to get to the line at a higher rate than any other SF on the list.

However there is a reason why Thad's eFG% is much higher than Gallo's. From the field Young has proven this past season to be more effective than Gallo but due to the fact that Gallo is so damn good at getting to the line that his TS% is superior. Gallo scores more points per shot than Thad but Thad scores at a higher rate from the field than Gallo and also more points per minute.

Their difference in MPG also didn't bode to well in helping Young's cause. I agree with you on the point of Gallo being an underrated defensive player as well.

I really hope MileHigh adds Thad to the next poll because IMO he has just as good a case as anyone else.

Kashmir13579
07-19-2011, 08:53 PM
There is no question whatsoever that Gallo is indeed a better shooter than Thaddues and his knack to get to the line at a higher rate than any other SF on the list.

However there is a reason why Thad's eFG% is much higher than Gallo's. From the field Young has proven this past season to be more effective than Gallo but due to the fact that Gallo is so damn good at getting to the line that his TS% is superior. Gallo scores more points per shot than Thad but Thad scores at a higher rate from the field than Gallo and also more points per minute.

Their difference in MPG also didn't bode to well in helping Young's cause. I agree with you on the point of Gallo being an underrated defensive player as well.

I really hope MileHigh adds Thad to the next poll because IMO he has just as good a case as anyone else.

I agree and i look forward to the debate.

SteBO
07-19-2011, 08:54 PM
This poll is a lock as far as I'm concerned......

Mishmin
07-19-2011, 09:00 PM
Eassssssssy. Number 10 should be interesting though

BrahCake954
07-19-2011, 09:12 PM
can u add ariza to the next list please

:rolleyes: ariza isnt even better than beasley

beasley > all the bums left on the list except wallace at this point :facepalm:

NBA-GMaster
07-19-2011, 09:14 PM
voted for G-force.. #10 will be Gallo vs Matrix..

NBA-GMaster
07-19-2011, 09:16 PM
:rolleyes: ariza isnt even better than beasley

beasley > all the bums left on the list except wallace at this point :facepalm:

right!! where's beasley?? he should be on this list..

Swashcuff
07-19-2011, 09:49 PM
Thaddeus Young for #10

SteBO
07-19-2011, 10:05 PM
Thaddeus Young for #10
I'd support this, and I'd go the Gallo route as well. Young gave the Heat tons of trouble in the first round of the playoffs last year.

Swashcuff
07-19-2011, 10:10 PM
I'd support this, and I'd go the Gallo route as well. Young gave the Heat tons of trouble in the first round of the playoffs last year.

I think they both have a really strong case and I really wouldn't be mad if Young doesn't get the spot or anything like that because a solid case can be made for others. I'm just trying to ensure that the OP includes Young in the #10 poll.

Th£~GamÄ
07-19-2011, 10:22 PM
Gerald Wallace shoulda been 5 or 6

Th£~GamÄ
07-19-2011, 10:23 PM
I nominate Beasley as #10

If he isn't in the poll than I'd be mad

kozelkid
07-19-2011, 10:26 PM
Thaddeus Young for #10

That's probably who I am voting for. Completely forgot about him since he wasn't on the poll.

I'll be very disappointed if people vote for Caron, Marion or Beasley. I don't understand how people still think Caron is good. Marion just had a good series and Beasley is an inefficient, lazy bum.

The only choices I think that are acceptable are Young, Gallo, and maybe Hill, Wright and Chandler.

Sadds The Gr8
07-19-2011, 11:05 PM
I'd support this, and I'd go the Gallo route as well. Young gave the Heat tons of trouble in the first round of the playoffs last year.

huh? he had one game.

-0.1 WS, 92 ORTG, 43% TS, 41% eFG. with only 11 PPG and 5 RPG.

Swashcuff
07-19-2011, 11:33 PM
huh? he had one game.

-0.1 WS, 92 ORTG, 43% TS, 41% eFG. with only 11 PPG and 5 RPG.

Way to look at his production aye.

He's a bench player who doesn't always get into the rotation that would see him comfortably find his niche. In his first 2 games of the Heat series he combined for 38 points (lead the team in scoring in both games) and 17 (13 offensive) rebounds off the bench in under 30 minutes per game.

Of course Miami being the best perimeter defensive team in the league quickly figured out a plan of counter attack to Young and contained him in the next 2 games of that series. In the 5th game he shot well but didn't cause as much bother as he did in the first. Long story short looking at his production overall in that series does not tell the whole story.

Sadds The Gr8
07-19-2011, 11:39 PM
Way to look at his production aye.

He's a bench player who doesn't always get into the rotation that would see him comfortably find his niche. In his first 2 games of the Heat series he combined for 38 points (lead the team in scoring in both games) and 17 (13 offensive) rebounds off the bench in under 30 minutes per game.

Of course Miami being the best perimeter defensive team in the league quickly figured out a plan of counter attack to Young and contained him in the next 2 games of that series. In the 5th game he shot well but didn't cause as much bother as he did in the first. Long story short looking at his production overall in that series does not tell the whole story.

bottom line is, he didn't give Miami much trouble at all, as someone suggested.

Swashcuff
07-19-2011, 11:52 PM
bottom line is, he didn't give Miami much trouble at all, as someone suggested.

What are you talking about bottom line? Did you not read what I posted?

Miami had their hands fulled in the first 2 games of the series with him. Adjusted to suit and to which Young became a focal point of their defensive game plan.

We aren't talking about the Warriors here we are talking about the Miami Heat the best perimeter defensive team in the league. When a team doesn't have much offensive threats its pretty easy to focus on denying a bench player such as Young the opportunity to beat you.

Sportfan
07-19-2011, 11:55 PM
Wallace here easily.


Where is Green? He should be #10

Sadds The Gr8
07-20-2011, 12:03 AM
What are you talking about bottom line? Did you not read what I posted?

Miami had their hands fulled in the first 2 games of the series with him. Adjusted to suit and to which Young became a focal point of their defensive game plan.

We aren't talking about the Warriors here we are talking about the Miami Heat the best perimeter defensive team in the league. When a team doesn't have much offensive threats its pretty easy to focus on denying a bench player such as Young the opportunity to beat you.

ok fine, he had 2 games, then got shut down...happy? who cares if he was the focal point of the defense? bottom line is whether he had a big impact or not, and he didn't after game 2. he wasn't a factor after that, and that was my point.

John Walls Era
07-20-2011, 12:06 AM
Im gonna go with Dorell Wright or Danillo at 10.

MJ-BULLS
07-20-2011, 02:00 AM
G Wallace.

aussie
07-20-2011, 02:19 AM
Do you think he would actually get votes. Despite being one of the better perimeter defenders in the league, he maybe the worst offensive player in the league.
maybe but still i think he should go on the list, even if he doesn't get a vote

Chacarron
07-20-2011, 02:45 AM
Grant Hill should get #10.

Slug3
07-20-2011, 10:13 AM
I voted for Dorrell Wright. I just thought he became a great players last year and it of course had to be once he left the Heat.

stuckyfreshhh
07-20-2011, 10:28 AM
#10 should be up for grabs between T.Young, M.Beasley, and D.Gallo

I like all three of these guys and anyone of them would be a good choice for number 10. I just think the fact Young doesn't start might hurt him in the eyes of a lot of voters.

Bryrob58
07-20-2011, 10:33 AM
I swear, Hustlenomics and LTBabyy have to be brothers. BOTH have Marion? BOTH wanted Rudy way higher, both wanted Joe Johnson #4, they always have the same opinion, but never justify it...

Mile High Champ
07-20-2011, 10:40 AM
#10 is up, mods can close this one.

Swashcuff
07-20-2011, 10:54 AM
I swear, Hustlenomics and LTBabyy have to be brothers. BOTH have Marion? BOTH wanted Rudy way higher, both wanted Joe Johnson #4, they always have the same opinion, but never justify it...

:nod:

So very true.