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View Full Version : "that being said" - Alex Anthopoulos on FAN590



GNick
07-15-2011, 05:51 AM
Double A on Fan590 last night, talking mostly about trades. A few highlights:

- Where the team is starting to come together this trade deadline the Jays have changed their focus in terms of what they are looking for. Although he would always accept prospects, he is primarily looking players who would help the team this season or next season.

- He's had trade discussions for a couple of players who are pending free agents. The 2-3 months this season gives him a chance to get to know the player, the player gets a chance to know the city. Also allows a bigger window to negotiate a long term contract.

- The trade deadline teams are more motivated to trade than any other time of year. Teams are sellers and gives him better chance to acquire a specific player. He tries to expand trades to 3 or even sometimes 4 teams because it is often we don't match up well with a particular team.

Nels@Ryerson
07-15-2011, 06:46 AM
from what i gather, AA is going to try to make, maybe not a blockbuster persay, but certainly a multi team, multi player trade

nstojic
07-15-2011, 07:56 AM
the subsequent audio (audio)

nithanyo
07-15-2011, 08:20 AM
i hope we land a big fish. Jose Reyes maybe or Kemp maybe.

Snider + Drabek for Kemp?? maybe throw in gose(obviously im being a jays fan here and overvaluing our players but its good to be hopeful right :D)



An outfield of Bautista, Kemp and Thames is downright disgusting.

Billyen
07-15-2011, 09:18 AM
from what i gather, AA is going to try to make, maybe not a blockbuster persay, but certainly a multi team, multi player trade

It's going to be "smart trades" that are good for the Jays. It will be what the team needs, not what it wants.

I think everyone's over valuing Kemp and Rasmus.
Why give up prospects for Reyes when you can get him in FA in 3 months?

Can I go to dreamland for a sec...
Offer CC 180/8. Fielder 220/8 (I'm a believer now). Maybe Reyes...140/7?
Beeston said the money's there...well! Half a billion doesn't sound like too much, does it?
Trade our top 8 prospects (except Lawrie, Gose) for Felix and Kershaw. Collect WS rings in Apr. by default.
Ok...I'm awake...that was fun.

Make no mistake the 2011 Blue Jays season starts in November with a preview in July. Take'em to school AA!

North Yorker
07-15-2011, 09:59 AM
With EE heating up and Lawrie due up soon, I think we could get a decent spec for him. Or even better with Litsch/Janssen/McGowan on the horizon package EE and a BP arm for the best package available.

Seattle makes sense, if they wanna be buyers at the TD.

Either way though, we have to move some BP arms and soon.

idrinkpepsi
07-15-2011, 10:45 AM
If I were AA I'd trade away a few relievers for some prospects, and try and get something for EE. Maybe AA can add a utility player who doesn't suck as well, I don't expect a huge move but there will be medium sized moves that will probably turn out for the best in the team. I highly, HIGHLY doubt that Jose Reyes, Prince Fielder or even Jimmy Rollins (a lot of people forget he is a FA) are coming to Toronto. Should make for a good trade deadline regardless though, hopefully he starts making moves sooner then later.

:p

es0terik
07-15-2011, 11:00 AM
Of all the big blockbuster names, I want Prince Fielder and Prince Fielder only. He fits perfectly into our game and in my opinion makes more sense than anyone else.

For the bullpen I want Heath Bell. I also wanted K-Rod but he's gone.

+ We need starters. We have no starters.

MCRIZZ
07-15-2011, 11:26 AM
"There are definitely some short term players Im looking to acquire who are prespective FA"
^like the sound of that

MCRIZZ
07-15-2011, 11:30 AM
on acquiring a short term player...were looking to hit a homerun "no pun intended" because it would give him a chance to get to know the city and negotiate a long term contract...Are we talking the prince here :O

North Yorker
07-15-2011, 11:31 AM
Of all the big blockbuster names, I want Prince Fielder and Prince Fielder only. He fits perfectly into our game and in my opinion makes more sense than anyone else.

For the bullpen I want Heath Bell. I also wanted K-Rod but he's gone.

+ We need starters. We have no starters.

If you're talking about trading for Prince, I dont see that happening. The Brewers are going for it this year. So unless Greinke and Braun suffer significant injuries before the TD, I expect them to hang on to him, see what happens, and then collect the picks.

Eagles4Lyfe
07-15-2011, 11:57 AM
Well lets play detective, who are some players whos contracts are expiring from other teams??

MCRIZZ
07-15-2011, 12:00 PM
Catchers
Rod Barajas (36)
Henry Blanco (40)
Ramon Castro (36)
Ryan Doumit (31) - $7.25MM club option for 2012, $8.25MM club option for '13 with a $500K buyout
Ramon Hernandez (36)
Jason Kendall (38)
Gerald Laird (32)
Jose Molina (36)
Yadier Molina (29) - $7MM club option with a $750K buyout
Dioner Navarro (28)
Ivan Rodriguez (40)
Brian Schneider (35)
Kelly Shoppach (29) - $3.2MM club option with a $300K buyout
Chris Snyder (31) - $6.75MM club option with a $750K buyout
Matt Treanor (36)
Jason Varitek (40)

First basemen
Lance Berkman (36)
Russell Branyan (36)
Jorge Cantu (30)
Michael Cuddyer (33)
Prince Fielder (28)
Ross Gload (36)
Brad Hawpe (33)
Eric Hinske (34) - $1.5MM club option with a $100K buyout
Nick Johnson (33)
Casey Kotchman (29)
Mark Kotsay (36)
Derrek Lee (36)
Xavier Nady (33)
Lyle Overbay (35)
Carlos Pena (34)
Albert Pujols (32)

Second basemen
Clint Barmes (33)
Willie Bloomquist (34) - $1.1MM mutual option with a $150K buyout
Orlando Cabrera (37)
Robinson Cano (29) - $14MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Jamey Carroll (37)
Alex Cora (36)
Craig Counsell (41)
Mark Ellis (35)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (36)
Aaron Hill (30) - $8MM club option for 2012 and $8MM club option for '13
Omar Infante (30)
Joe Inglett (34)
Kelly Johnson (30)
Adam Kennedy (36)
Felipe Lopez (32)
Jose Lopez (28)
Julio Lugo (36)
Aaron Miles (35)
Augie Ojeda (37)
Brandon Phillips (31) - $12MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Shortstops
Clint Barmes (33)
Yuniesky Betancourt (30) - $6MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Orlando Cabrera (37)
Jamey Carroll (37)
Ronny Cedeno (29) - $3MM club option with a $200K buyout
Craig Counsell (41)
Rafael Furcal (34) - $12MM club option with a $1.3MM buyout
Alex Gonzalez (34)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (36)
J.J. Hardy (29)
Omar Infante (30)
Cesar Izturis (32)
Julio Lugo (36)
John McDonald (37)
Augie Ojeda (37)
Nick Punto (34)
Edgar Renteria (35)
Jose Reyes (29)
Jimmy Rollins (33)
Ramon Santiago (32)
Marco Scutaro (36) - $6MM club option/$3MM player option with a $1.5MM buyout
Miguel Tejada (38)
Jack Wilson (34)

Third basemen
Wilson Betemit (30)
Casey Blake (38) - $6MM club option with a $1.25MM buyout
Jorge Cantu (30)
Eric Chavez (34)
Craig Counsell (41)
Mark DeRosa (37)
Greg Dobbs (33)
Edwin Encarnacion (29) - $3.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Jerry Hairston Jr. (36)
Wes Helms (36)
Omar Infante (30)
Felipe Lopez (32)
Jose Lopez (28)
Nick Punto (34)
Aramis Ramirez (34)
Miguel Tejada (38)
Omar Vizquel (45)

Left fielders
Pat Burrell (35)
Jack Cust (33)
Johnny Damon (37)
Mark DeRosa (37)
Jonny Gomes (31)
Carlos Guillen (36)
Scott Hairston (32)
Willie Harris (34)
Jeremy Hermida (28)
Eric Hinske (34) - $1.5MM club option with a $100K buyout
Raul Ibanez (40)
Joe Inglett (34)
Conor Jackson (30)
Reed Johnson (35)
Austin Kearns (32)
Ryan Ludwick (33)
Jason Michaels (36)
Laynce Nix (31)
Juan Pierre (34)
Scott Podsednik (36)
Juan Rivera (33)
Matt Stairs (44)
Marcus Thames (35)
Josh Willingham (33)

Center fielders
Rick Ankiel (32)
Carlos Beltran (35)
Willie Bloomquist (34) - $1.1MM mutual option with a $150K buyout
Mike Cameron (39)
Coco Crisp (32)
David DeJesus (32)
Scott Hairston (32)
Andruw Jones (35)
Nate McLouth (30) - $10.65MM club option with a $1.25MM buyout
Corey Patterson (32)
Cody Ross (31)
Grady Sizemore (29) - $8.5MM club option with a $500K buyout

Right fielders
Bobby Abreu (38) - $9MM club option with a $1MM buyout; vests with 433 PAs in 2011
Lance Berkman (36)
Willie Bloomquist (34) - $1.1MM mutual option with a $150K buyout
Milton Bradley (34)
Michael Cuddyer (33)
David DeJesus (32)
J.D. Drew (36)
Jeff Francoeur (28) - $3MM mutual option
Kosuke Fukudome (35)
Willie Harris (34)
Brad Hawpe (33)
Jeremy Hermida (28)
Joe Inglett (34)
Austin Kearns (32)
Jason Kubel (29)
Ryan Ludwick (33)
Xavier Nady (33)
Magglio Ordonez (38)
Cody Ross (31)
Nick Swisher (31) - $10.25MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Josh Willingham (33)

Designated hitters
Milton Bradley (34)
Jack Cust (33)
Johnny Damon (37)
Jason Giambi (41)
Vladimir Guerrero (37)
Carlos Guillen (36)
David Ortiz (36)
Jason Kubel (29)
Hideki Matsui (38)
Jorge Posada (40)
Jim Thome (41)

Starting pitchers
Mark Buehrle (33)
Chris Carpenter (37) - $15MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Bruce Chen (35)
Bartolo Colon (39)
Aaron Cook (33) - $11MM mutual option with a $500K buyout
Kyle Davies (28)
Ryan Dempster (35) - $14MM player option, no buyout
Justin Duchscherer (34)
Zach Duke (29) - $5.5MM club option with a $750K buyout
Jeff Francis (30)
Freddy Garcia (36)
Jon Garland (32) - $8MM club option with a $500K buyout; vests with 190 IP
Aaron Harang (34) - $5MM mutual option with a $500K buyout
Rich Harden (30)
Livan Hernandez (37)
Edwin Jackson (28)
Kenshin Kawakami (37)
Scott Kazmir (28) - $13.5MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout
Hiroki Kuroda (37)
Rodrigo Lopez (36)
Paul Maholm (30) - $9.75MM club option with a $750K buyout
John Maine (31)
Jason Marquis (33)
Kevin Millwood (37)
Sergio Mitre (31)
Scott Olsen (28) - $4MM club option with a $100K buyout
Roy Oswalt (34) - $16MM mutual option with a $2MM buyout
Brad Penny (34)
Oliver Perez (30)
Joel Pineiro (33)
C.C. Sabathia (31) - may opt out of remaining four years, $92MM
Javier Vazquez (35)
Adam Wainwright (30) - $10MM vesting option for '12, $12MM for '13
Tim Wakefield (45)
Chien-Ming Wang (32)
Brandon Webb (33)
Dontrelle Willis (30)
C.J. Wilson (31)
Chris Young (33)

Closers
Heath Bell (34)
Jonathan Broxton (28)
Matt Capps (28)
Francisco Cordero (37) - $12MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Frank Francisco (32)
Brad Lidge (35) - $12.5MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Joe Nathan (37) - $12.5MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Jonathan Papelbon (31)
Jon Rauch (33) - $3.75MM club option with a $250K buyout
Francisco Rodriguez (30) - $17.5MM club/vesting option with a $3.5MM buyout
Rafael Soriano (32) - $11MM player option or a $1.5MM buyout
Jose Valverde (34) - $9MM club option, no buyout

Right-handed relievers
Danys Baez (34)
Miguel Batista (41)
Blaine Boyer (30)
Shawn Camp (36)
Clay Condrey (36)
Lance Cormier (31)
Juan Cruz (31)
Octavio Dotel (38) - $3.75MM club option with a $750K buyout
Kyle Farnsworth (36) - $3.3MM club option with a $650K buyout
Jason Frasor (34) - $3.75MM club option
Chad Gaudin (29)
LaTroy Hawkins (37)
Aaron Heilman (33)
Jason Isringhausen (39)
Scott Linebrink (35)
Ryan Madson (31)
Guillermo Mota (38)
Micah Owings (29)
Vicente Padilla (34)
Joel Peralta (36)
Mark Prior (31)
Chad Qualls (33) - $6MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Jon Rauch (33) - $3.75MM club option with a $250K buyout
Chris Ray (30)
Fernando Rodney (35)
Takashi Saito (42)
Jeff Suppan (37)
Koji Uehara (37) - vesting option
Dan Wheeler (34) - $3MM club option with no buyout; vests with 65 appearances in 2011
Kerry Wood (35)
Jamey Wright (37)
Michael Wuertz (33) - $3.25MM club option with a $250K buyout
Joel Zumaya (27)

Left-handed relievers
Tim Byrdak (38)
Randy Flores (36)
Mike Gonzalez (34)
John Grabow (33)
Mark Hendrickson (38)
Javier Lopez (34)
Ron Mahay (41)
Damaso Marte (37) - $4MM club option with a $250K buyout
Hideki Okajima (36) - can opt for free agency
Darren Oliver (41)
Dennys Reyes (35)
Arthur Rhodes (42) - $4MM club option with a $200K buyout; vests with 62 appearances in 2011
J.C. Romero (36)
George Sherrill (35)
Brian Tallet (34)

bomber0104
07-15-2011, 12:39 PM
i'm too lazy to go through this list and figure out realistic options

Converged
07-15-2011, 12:40 PM
Offensively, I would like to see Brandon Phillips at 2B and maybe Sizemore at CF

es0terik
07-15-2011, 12:41 PM
"There are definitely some short term players Im looking to acquire who are prespective FA"
^like the sound of that
Yea that comment really got me excited too.


on acquiring a short term player...were looking to hit a homerun "no pun intended" because it would give him a chance to get to know the city and negotiate a long term contract...Are we talking the prince here :O
There actually was pun intended there lol... Learn to use the figure of speech! :P

es0terik
07-15-2011, 12:44 PM
If you're talking about trading for Prince, I dont see that happening. The Brewers are going for it this year. So unless Greinke and Braun suffer significant injuries before the TD, I expect them to hang on to him, see what happens, and then collect the picks.
I meant the Free Agent signing. I'm not a big fan of trading good players and Fielder would soak up a butt load of prospects. I'd rather sign and release. Though I know that's not a very easy thing to do, and realize there WILL be trades made. I just meant in a way that if we could somehow make a deal with the devil and guarantee Fielder would sign with us after the season end, then I wouldn't mind Anthopoulos holding back at the trade deadline.

I personally am more interested in the draft signing deadline than I am in the TD.

North Yorker
07-15-2011, 12:48 PM
The thing that Im wondering when it comes to FA and AA is will he take the Red Wings and Penguins approach and say, " Jose Bautista is our leader and best player and makes X amount and he will remain our highest paid player"

As in reference to Crosby and Lindstrom.

JoeyBats
07-15-2011, 12:48 PM
If you're talking about trading for Prince, I dont see that happening. The Brewers are going for it this year. So unless Greinke and Braun suffer significant injuries before the TD, I expect them to hang on to him, see what happens, and then collect the picks.

Totally agree with you....Even though I hope we're wrong.

es0terik
07-15-2011, 12:52 PM
For the trade deadline, I say pick up Brandon Phillips, and then later on you lock him in for years. He's only 31 years old right now and he's still got a few all star years left in him. By the time he's too old to produce, we'll (hopefully) be heavy contenders by then and we should have a younger bat to replace him. Above all that, I think he'd do wonders for the club house. The guy is a walking talking light bulb. He's always smiling, and with Vernon Wells gone, we're missing a clubhouse clown.

I also think we should let go of Patterson, pick up Beltran and lock him in for two years (that is IF he can somehow agree to a short term contract). When Gose comes up, package Beltran off to whatever team he'll play till retirement on, or just DFA him.

Jay
07-15-2011, 01:14 PM
i'm too lazy to go through this list and figure out realistic options

Jeff Francis would be a realistic option, and we could probably acquire him for cheap. I've always liked his game for whatever reason.

bomber0104
07-15-2011, 01:19 PM
Jeff Francis would be a realistic option, and we could probably acquire him for cheap. I've always liked his game for whatever reason.

please no... the guy is getting torched in the Central.. just imagine what would happen to him in the East..

he is no better than Reyes or current Cecil trust me

bomber0104
07-15-2011, 01:21 PM
For the trade deadline, I say pick up Brandon Phillips, and then later on you lock him in for years. He's only 31 years old right now and he's still got a few all star years left in him. By the time he's too old to produce, we'll (hopefully) be heavy contenders by then and we should have a younger bat to replace him. Above all that, I think he'd do wonders for the club house. The guy is a walking talking light bulb. He's always smiling, and with Vernon Wells gone, we're missing a clubhouse clown.

I also think we should let go of Patterson, pick up Beltran and lock him in for two years (that is IF he can somehow agree to a short term contract). When Gose comes up, package Beltran off to whatever team he'll play till retirement on, or just DFA him.

I think Phillips and Beltran are very realistic options.. trading for Phillips now would mean we wouldn't have to worry about giving picks in the offseason.. at the same time we could still get picks for Hill

DiehardJaysFan
07-15-2011, 01:26 PM
Somehow I don't think Beltrans knee would hold up on the Turf.

Krylian
07-15-2011, 01:33 PM
What I'm thinking is that AA is trying to land a prospective FA or two in order for him to land a couple of comp picks. And I'm thinking he's trying to do this because he's going to try to make a significant splash or two this off-season, and in doing so we'd lose our own first rounder...and possibly more if he goes after more than one Type A. But if we have a few comp picks stocked up then we can still be a strong player in the upcoming draft.

Maybe this isn't at all what AA is planning...but I'm hoping he's thinking along those lines.

North Yorker
07-15-2011, 01:43 PM
I think Phillips and Beltran are very realistic options.. trading for Phillips now would mean we wouldn't have to worry about giving picks in the offseason.. at the same time we could still get picks for Hill

Cinci is in a tough spot. They easily have enough talent to win that division and yet stand in 4th place while being only 4 games out of 1st. I guess they will wait it out till the last second to be buyers or sellers.

I would love to have Phillips here for the next 3.5-5 yrs but he isnt gonna come cheap(Type A FA) since he isn't really a true "rental" and has a $12M club option for next year, so I dont really know what his value would be. Maybe do a deal centered around Jiminez + Jenkins?

If we do land him then I guess Hill moves to the bench and we try to work out a long term deal for Phillips.

If I had to guess it would be Phillips who AA is after.

EDIT: On a sidenote, wasnt AA at the series in Cinci this year? I know it was for the Yunel extension but maybe he also wanted to see Phillips live in action.

Jay
07-15-2011, 01:47 PM
please no... the guy is getting torched in the Central.. just imagine what would happen to him in the East..

he is no better than Reyes or current Cecil trust me

Francis and Reyes are similar pitchers, but Francis is a more dependable option, without a doubt.

ILDD
07-15-2011, 02:42 PM
What I'm thinking is that AA is trying to land a prospective FA or two in order for him to land a couple of comp picks. And I'm thinking he's trying to do this because he's going to try to make a significant splash or two this off-season, and in doing so we'd lose our own first rounder...and possibly more if he goes after more than one Type A. But if we have a few comp picks stocked up then we can still be a strong player in the upcoming draft.

Maybe this isn't at all what AA is planning...but I'm hoping he's thinking along those lines.

Exactly what I thought - Miguel Olivo part II (and part III possibly?). I'm keeping an eye on Kevin Comer (the number 57 pick that resulted from Olivo) to see if he becomes anything.

ChongInc.
07-15-2011, 03:18 PM
Brian tallet!

TO Rapz
07-15-2011, 03:36 PM
Eric Hinske!

Jamiecballer
07-15-2011, 03:54 PM
Mr. Peanut!

wait, what are we talking about?

i don't think Anthopoulos plans to make any big moves in the near future. this guy seems to be on a mission to compete by stockpiling an overwhelming number of prospects and i think he's committed to seeing it through. good for him.

2009mvp
07-15-2011, 05:34 PM
Francis and Reyes are similar pitchers, but Francis is a more dependable option, without a doubt.

I get the feeling you wouldn't be saying that if Francis and his 85 MPH fastball made a few starts in Toronto.

bomber0104
07-15-2011, 06:43 PM
I get the feeling you wouldn't be saying that if Francis and his 85 MPH fastball made a few starts in Toronto.

haah exactly

dtmagnet
07-15-2011, 06:58 PM
The thing that Im wondering when it comes to FA and AA is will he take the Red Wings and Penguins approach and say, " Jose Bautista is our leader and best player and makes X amount and he will remain our highest paid player"

As in reference to Crosby and Lindstrom.

I don't think Bautista would care about not being the highest paid if we got someone who would help us win.

JMac4PM
07-15-2011, 07:08 PM
I'm gonna throw out some predictions here for guys we're after:
Brandon Phillips
Jose Reyes
Jeff Francoer
Jason Kubel
Zach Duke
Rich Harden
Edwin Jackson
Jon Broxton

Bob_at_york
07-15-2011, 07:41 PM
Offensively, I would like to see Brandon Phillips at 2B and maybe Sizemore at CF

I think JJ Hardy would be a better option than Phillips. I also wonder if Jose Lopez could be had for cheap before the deadline. Give him a look and see if he can get his career back on track.

craigerlee
07-15-2011, 07:55 PM
Cinci is in a tough spot. They easily have enough talent to win that division and yet stand in 4th place while being only 4 games out of 1st. I guess they will wait it out till the last second to be buyers or sellers.

I would love to have Phillips here for the next 3.5-5 yrs but he isnt gonna come cheap(Type A FA) since he isn't really a true "rental" and has a $12M club option for next year, so I dont really know what his value would be. Maybe do a deal centered around Jiminez + Jenkins?

If we do land him then I guess Hill moves to the bench and we try to work out a long term deal for Phillips.

If I had to guess it would be Phillips who AA is after.

EDIT: On a sidenote, wasnt AA at the series in Cinci this year? I know it was for the Yunel extension but maybe he also wanted to see Phillips live in action.

I'm pretty sure if Phillips is traded his option becomes a mutual option, so he'd have to agree to stay here. Seeing as the FA market, especially the 2B market is pretty weak, I'm guessing he'd decline it and cash in in FA.

Billyen
07-15-2011, 11:11 PM
What I'm thinking is that AA is trying to land a prospective FA or two in order for him to land a couple of comp picks. And I'm thinking he's trying to do this because he's going to try to make a significant splash or two this off-season, and in doing so we'd lose our own first rounder...and possibly more if he goes after more than one Type A. But if we have a few comp picks stocked up then we can still be a strong player in the upcoming draft.



This.
I think AA is going to do that but 2 things.

1. Next year is, year number 2 of Jose 5 year deal. At some point we to need to move all in. I think 2012 is that year. We are 2 star bats and 2 star pitchers from winning the east. (we are only 8 win's from 1st) EE cost us 5 alone.

2. I know everyone get's cranky when I say this but, if we lost enough games and stay under the 15th rank our first round pick is protected and lets us go after FA's. With today's win we are 16th in the order, last week we were 12th.

I do see a couple of those trades... maybe EE and cooper (who's never going to get here for a type A or a couple B's. Not sure who thought. I do know if that's AA's plan ...he's all over it.

Dol-Fan
07-16-2011, 08:37 AM
I think JJ Hardy would be a better option than Phillips. I also wonder if Jose Lopez could be had for cheap before the deadline. Give him a look and see if he can get his career back on track.

Why? The guy is ALWAYS injured. Unless you're worried about money or term, Phillips is a far better option, is consistent year to year, and always plays 140+ games.

North Yorker
07-16-2011, 09:07 AM
Phillips would be a HUGE get. Yea we might have to give up our 1st but we have 5 Type B relievers + Hill is also Type B so we're looking at 6 possible sandwich picks.

Our lineup would be ridiculously deep..

Escobar/Thames/Bautista/Lind/Phillips/Snider/Lawrie/JPA/Davis

Not to mention he's great defensively.

And with Lawrie probably ready after the TD I see us trading EE while his stock is high.

Dol-Fan
07-16-2011, 09:09 AM
Phillips would be a HUGE get. Yea we might have to give up our 1st but we have 5 Type B relievers + Hill is also Type B so we're looking at 6 possible sandwich picks.

Our lineup would be ridiculously deep..

Escobar/Thames/Bautista/Lind/Phillips/Snider/Lawrie/JPA/Davis

Not to mention he's great defensively.

And with Lawrie probably ready after the TD I see us trading EE while his stock is high.

as much as I'd like to get a better CF than Davis...I'd be more than comfortable rolling out that lineup for a long time. That's a very, very solid lineup with Hill out of there.

GNick
07-16-2011, 09:14 AM
What I'm thinking is that AA is trying to land a prospective FA or two in order for him to land a couple of comp picks. And I'm thinking he's trying to do this because he's going to try to make a significant splash or two this off-season, and in doing so we'd lose our own first rounder...and possibly more if he goes after more than one Type A. But if we have a few comp picks stocked up then we can still be a strong player in the upcoming draft.

Maybe this isn't at all what AA is planning...but I'm hoping he's thinking along those lines.

I think we already have 3 or 4 extra picks coming next draft on Dotel, Frazier and Francisco, possibly Hill. I don't agree with your scenario at all. If anything trade for a free agent AA is interested in now and don't have to give up any picks. Also, good chance to sign him slightly cheaper compared to the open market, and we get to know the player better before gambling a big long term contract on him.

Luca68
07-16-2011, 09:16 AM
whens the trade deadline?

GNick
07-16-2011, 09:16 AM
I think JJ Hardy would be a better option than Phillips.

I don't agree with this at all. Hardy has never played a game at 2b in his life and offers no speed. I have Phillips way better player than Hardy

North Yorker
07-16-2011, 09:19 AM
as much as I'd like to get a better CF than Davis...I'd be more than comfortable rolling out that lineup for a long time. That's a very, very solid lineup with Hill out of there.

What do you think it will cost to sign Phillips? $7-9M/year? Or will the market drive up his price more than this?

Dol-Fan
07-16-2011, 09:24 AM
I don't agree with this at all. Hardy has never played a game at 2b in his life and offers no speed. I have Phillips way better player than Hardy

Absolutely. Way better player and way more durable.


What do you think it will cost to sign Phillips? $7-9M/year? Or will the market drive up his price more than this?

I would imagine the market would drive his value up higher than that...his option next year is for $12M so his deal will likely start somewhere around $10-12M. I'd guess that he'll get a 4-6 year deal with an $11-13M average.

StayOnBoard
07-16-2011, 09:33 AM
Phillips would be a HUGE get. Yea we might have to give up our 1st but we have 5 Type B relievers + Hill is also Type B so we're looking at 6 possible sandwich picks.

Our lineup would be ridiculously deep..

Escobar/Thames/Bautista/Lind/Phillips/Snider/Lawrie/JPA/Davis

Not to mention he's great defensively.

And with Lawrie probably ready after the TD I see us trading EE while his stock is high.

I agree - I'd love Brandon Phillips too.

I'm not sure how it would work out - unless we offered Hill plus some nice prospects. He has a 12 million option deal - and I think he could get 10+ on the open market. 4 year/40 million type deal IMO. I'd give him that - he's good defensively and he would fit in very well here IMO.

North Yorker
07-16-2011, 09:43 AM
I agree - I'd love Brandon Phillips too.

I'm not sure how it would work out - unless we offered Hill plus some nice prospects. He has a 12 million option deal - and I think he could get 10+ on the open market. 4 year/40 million type deal IMO. I'd give him that - he's good defensively and he would fit in very well here IMO.

I think a fair deal would be a Jiminez + Jenkins type of package. The Reds wont let him go cheaply since he is type A. And since Hill's value is somewhat low I think we hang on to him and just collect the draft pick when he walks.

And yea I would overpay a bit in order to keep the deal at 4 years.

ILDD
07-16-2011, 09:45 AM
I went through the Elias Rankings and potential free agents and came up with a couple of names.

Jason Kubel - Twins. Currently signed in 2011 for $4.1M, 2012 is a $5.25M club option with $0.35M buyout.
David DeJesus - Royals. Currently signed in 2011 for $4.7M, 2012 is a $6M club option with $0.5M buyout.
Michael Wuertz - Athletics. Currently signed in 2011 for $2.8M, 2012 is a $3.25M club option with $0.25M buyout.

All these guys are on non-competitive teams and are owed a reasonable amount of money. I think they will all decline arbitration when their options are declined and are all type B.

It's attractive for the selling team as a salary dump (all will cost their current teams between $1.5M and $2.5M) plus they would be traded for cash considerations and attractive to AA for the compensation picks.

Would you pay about $6M for 3 compensation round picks?

StayOnBoard
07-16-2011, 09:58 AM
I think a fair deal would be a Jiminez + Jenkins type of package. The Reds wont let him go cheaply since he is type A. And since Hill's value is somewhat low I think we hang on to him and just collect the draft pick when he walks.

And yea I would overpay a bit in order to keep the deal at 4 years.

I think it would cost more to be honest.... and the only reason I say send back Hill is because they can decline his options if need be (or not - depends on if they find another 2nd baseman). But right now on their current roster, I dont think they have another 2nd baseman adequate to making a playoff run.

bomber0104
07-16-2011, 11:14 AM
I'm gonna throw out some predictions here for guys we're after:
Brandon Phillips
Jose Reyes
Jeff Francoer
Jason Kubel
Zach Duke
Rich Harden
Edwin JacksonJon Broxton

thats one of the guys i was thinking about... apparently the Sox are gonna make him available and i could see AA making a move to fill out the bottom of the rotation

Jay
07-16-2011, 11:26 AM
I think JJ Hardy would be a better option than Phillips. I also wonder if Jose Lopez could be had for cheap before the deadline. Give him a look and see if he can get his career back on track.

I'm a big fan and believe he could work it out at 2B. That being said, he's a favorite of the Baltimore front office and is likely to get an extension sometime in the near future.

StayOnBoard
07-16-2011, 01:48 PM
thats one of the guys i was thinking about... apparently the Sox are gonna make him available and i could see AA making a move to fill out the bottom of the rotation

I agree - I could see us making a play for Jackson. He'd only be a 4th or 5th on our team, which is pretty solid.


I'm a big fan and believe he could work it out at 2B. That being said, he's a favorite of the Baltimore front office and is likely to get an extension sometime in the near future.

Like today :p

es0terik
07-16-2011, 01:57 PM
If anything trade for a free agent AA is interested in now and don't have to give up any picks.

It all sounds good but most of the good FAs are on contending teams.

MCRIZZ
07-16-2011, 02:51 PM
whens the trade deadline?

july 31st is the nonwaiver deadline

wamco
07-16-2011, 06:38 PM
hardy off table.


nigel wilson

Billyen
07-16-2011, 09:54 PM
I went through the Elias Rankings and potential free agents and came up with a couple of names.

Jason Kubel - Twins. Currently signed in 2011 for $4.1M, 2012 is a $5.25M club option with $0.35M buyout.
David DeJesus - Royals. Currently signed in 2011 for $4.7M, 2012 is a $6M club option with $0.5M buyout.
Michael Wuertz - Athletics. Currently signed in 2011 for $2.8M, 2012 is a $3.25M club option with $0.25M buyout.

All these guys are on non-competitive teams and are owed a reasonable amount of money. I think they will all decline arbitration when their options are declined and are all type B.

It's attractive for the selling team as a salary dump (all will cost their current teams between $1.5M and $2.5M) plus they would be traded for cash considerations and attractive to AA for the compensation picks.

Would you pay about $6M for 3 compensation round picks?

Nice...Like this....That's very AA of you. That would give us 12-13 picks in the first 2 rounds.

GNick
07-17-2011, 08:42 AM
It all sounds good but most of the good FAs are on contending teams.

Some are and some aren't. Same as other years. Majority are saying it is Reyes AA is pursueing, with his pending free agency and Mets all but out the race they could well end up being right. On other side of coin, I wouldn't be surprised if it somebody nobody expects. Which is generally the way AA operates. He has been known to pull a trade way out of left field to sort of speak. Nobody expected the Escobar trade or Marcum trade and everybody would have bet their last dollar Vernon Wells was unmovable but yet...

StayOnBoard
07-17-2011, 09:39 AM
Some are and some aren't. Same as other years. Majority are saying it is Reyes AA is pursueing, with his pending free agency and Mets all but out the race they could well end up being right. On other side of coin, I wouldn't be surprised if it somebody nobody expects. Which is generally the way AA operates. He has been known to pull a trade way out of left field to sort of speak. Nobody expected the Escobar trade or Marcum trade and everybody would have bet their last dollar Vernon Wells was unmovable but yet...

I agree 100% - though I'd **** my pants if we got Jose Reyes. Boy it'd be awesome - and I would hope there would be a long term deal in place if that happened but it would really come out of no where as I'd never expect him to make that kind of move.

I honestly thought Wells was unmovable too - which is why most view AA as a magician. lol. He proved that pretty much anything is fair game with the Jays.

T.O. Fan
07-17-2011, 09:55 AM
Phillips is going to cost more than Jenkins and Jimenez.

Dol-Fan
07-17-2011, 10:09 AM
I agree 100% - though I'd **** my pants if we got Jose Reyes. Boy it'd be awesome - and I would hope there would be a long term deal in place if that happened but it would really come out of no where as I'd never expect him to make that kind of move.

I honestly thought Wells was unmovable too - which is why most view AA as a magician. lol. He proved that pretty much anything is fair game with the Jays.

A middle infield of Escobar-Reyes :drool:

I don't even want to think of what it would take to get Reyes...

GNick
07-21-2011, 04:45 AM
Ken Rosenthal says one of the players AA is trying to acquire is Heath Bell.

http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/jays_selling_relievers_and_buying_too/5642287?new_post=true

Krylian
07-21-2011, 07:40 AM
Wonder if he's motivated to add Bell as a building piece or if he wants the Type A compensation?

GNick
07-21-2011, 10:18 AM
Wonder if he's motivated to add Bell as a building piece or if he wants the Type A compensation?

Common sense...the price to acquire Bell will be a lot steeper than the value of a first round and sandwich pick. San Diego wouldn't trade Bell for less value than 2 picks.

GNick
08-12-2011, 08:18 AM
Sal Fasano was on FAN590, Jays Double A manager, talking about some of our prospects we have down in New Hampshire.

- Dustin McGowan made a good start last week. He is throwing in the mid-90s, touching 95-96. His breaking stuff was okay, not great. He is on a 65 pitch and 4 inning count. Hope to up to bump up to 5 innings and 90 pitches soon. Not the same pitcher we seen with the Jays a few years ago. Thinks McGowan be in big leagues earliest as September.

- Deck McGuire is a competitor, okay stuff not great stuff. Fastball ranges 91-94, curve, slider. He is a project but with his attitude and work ethic should be a good one.

- Anthony Gose rakes havoc on the basepaths. Has a sneaky delay steal. Has a real good retention of knowledge, easy to teach.

- Travis d'Arnand really improved his catching since the spring. Calls a good game, impressed with his work ethic and defense. Hitting has improved, developed a good eye, fun to watch hit. Which is saying something for a kid who had a .270 career average before this season.

GNick
08-19-2011, 07:47 AM
Anthopoloulos was on again last night during Jays pregame show. Some of his comments were:

- Aaron Hill, has not closed the book on Hill - giving him lots of opportunity to comeback. Compared him to JJ Hardy who had a bad two seasons in a row, one with Brewers and one with Twins before bouncing back. Hill is still young at 28 not like he is 38.

- Edwin Encarnacion - talked with Edwin this season when things were going tough. Spoke to him about his best season in 2008 and his career high walks. Encarnacion was over aggressive to hitting. Needed to learn to work the count, grind out the at bat. EE has tremendous hand-eye coordination. For a power hitter to hit 26 homers with 61 walks and 100 strikeouts normally should be lots more swing and miss. Had 9 walks and 30 strikeouts in first half, in second half Encarnacion so far has 18 walks and 12 strikeouts, his ops and obp has skyrocketed.

- Adeiny Hechavarria - Started hitting the ball well in Double A before going to Triple A. Wanted him to work with Chad Mottola. Expects Adeiny to be in majors at the earliest 2013, be with big club 2014 regardless because of his options. Compared Hechavarria to Escobar of the Royals. With possibly more offensive upside. Had to learn to lay off the breaking ball from right handed pitching. Hits left handed pitching well now. Does not see Hechavarria as future second baseman as his most value will be at shortstop given his great glove.

- Travis d'Aarnand - Has been great in New Hampshire but will stay in Double A thru out the season and will not get a September callup. He never had a full season last year in Florida State League. Be in spring training next spring.

- Eric Thames - Walks got him out of his 1-66 slump. Can do his damage better ahead in count 2-0 or 3-1. Walks are a really big deal with Anthopoloulos.

nstojic
08-19-2011, 08:58 AM
didn't know where else to post this... the similar philosophies of burke/AA


Parallels aside, which team is further ahead? The Jays appear to be, particularly given their challenging division. But Burke and Co. are oozing confidence that the changes on the coaching staff, addition of Tim Connolly to play centre and solid late-season record will get them to the post-season in 2012.

The GMs of these two local squads seem to have similar ideas about team-building. Indeed, Anthopoulos invited Leaf execs Dave Poulin and Claude Loiselle to sit in during this year’s baseball amateur draft.

Burke knows Anthopoulos, and has been known to tip a pint with Paul Beeston. A little co-operation, perhaps, will help get both teams where they want to go.

read on... (read on...)

GNick
09-06-2011, 07:37 PM
Alex Anthopoulos on FAN about an hour ago, some of his comments:

- Adam Loewen been a life time Jays fans, wanted to play in this organization. Worked his way up here, still a lot ceiling, wanted a look at him at major league level.

- Woodard been a great clubhouse veteran this year in Triple A. Worked with the young guys, wants to be a coach someday.

- Kyle Drabek - Anthopoulos made a special trip on Saturday to watch Drabek pitch before deciding on calling him up. Don't believe the box scores, AA was impressed with what he saw, Drabek is coming around. Still throwing 97 mph, now can throw his curveball for strikes. Still needs to work in his fastball command. His one bad inning was bloopers, errors.

- Dustin McGowan - Can pitch tonight, today is his start date. He'll be used in the bullpen with lots of rest between each appearance.

- Darvish - tried to make trip to Japan in secrecy got on plane and 14 scouts from other teams were there. So much for that. Wish now he had made the trip to see Dice-K to have a reference point to compare Darvish. Went to see him pitch at least once with his scouts seeing him on every other start. Wanted to be open minded on every player to come up but doesn't sound like he'll be a big bidder. Talked a lot about with so many teams after him the millions Darvish bidding be out of his comfort zone. Mentioned we couldn't pay 2 million more to our first round pick because it was out of his comfort zone. Feels more comfortable with MLB free agents where he has seen them pitch a ton. Can't compare him to Dice-K because he thinks DiceK changed once he got here.

StayOnBoard
09-06-2011, 08:31 PM
Alex Anthopoulos on FAN about an hour ago, some of his comments:

- Adam Loewen been a life time Jays fans, wanted to play in this organization. Worked his way up here, still a lot ceiling, wanted a look at him at major league level.

- Woodard been a great clubhouse veteran this year in Triple A. Worked with the young guys, wants to be a coach someday.

- Kyle Drabek - Anthopoulos made a special trip on Saturday to watch Drabek pitch before deciding on calling him up. Don't believe the box scores, AA was impressed with what he saw, Drabek is coming around. Still throwing 97 mph, now can throw his curveball for strikes. Still needs to work in his fastball command. His one bad inning was bloopers, errors.

- Dustin McGowan - Can pitch tonight, today is his start date. He'll be used in the bullpen with lots of rest between each appearance.

- Darvish - tried to make trip to Japan in secrecy got on plane and 14 scouts from other teams were there. So much for that. Wish now he had made the trip to see Dice-K to have a reference point to compare Darvish. Went to see him pitch at least once with his scouts seeing him on every other start. Wanted to be open minded on every player to come up but doesn't sound like he'll be a big bidder. Talked a lot about with so many teams after him the millions Darvish bidding be out of his comfort zone. Mentioned we couldn't pay 2 million more to our first round pick because it was out of his comfort zone. Feels more comfortable with MLB free agents where he has seen them pitch a ton. Can't compare him to Dice-K because he thinks DiceK changed once he got here.

Interesting comments...

I have a feeling the Jays will go hard after CJ Wilson. He pitches great against the AL East and would have a contract more in his comfort zone IMO (5/75 instead of over 100 mil+ for Darvish). Might even take more to get Wilson though depending on interest and how he finishes out the year.

Krylian
09-06-2011, 08:35 PM
So no Darvish then.

Can't pay $2M more to a draft pick cause it's out of your comfort zone?????? Well you had better get comfortable in a damn hurry then!!!

GNick
09-06-2011, 08:52 PM
So no Darvish then.

Can't pay $2M more to a draft pick cause it's out of your comfort zone?????? Well you had better get comfortable in a damn hurry then!!!

He didn't shut the door on Darvish...he is open to all free agents. But it didn't sound like he is overly interest in a big bid on him.

Krylian
09-06-2011, 09:06 PM
He didn't shut the door on Darvish...he is open to all free agents. But it didn't sound like he is overly interest in a big bid on him.

A big bid is what it will take. So if he's not going to play with the big boys, he ain't gonna land Darvish.

town123
09-06-2011, 10:01 PM
Alex Anthopoulos on FAN about an hour ago, some of his comments:

- Darvish - tried to make trip to Japan in secrecy got on plane and 14 scouts from other teams were there. So much for that. Wish now he had made the trip to see Dice-K to have a reference point to compare Darvish. Went to see him pitch at least once with his scouts seeing him on every other start. Wanted to be open minded on every player to come up but doesn't sound like he'll be a big bidder. Talked a lot about with so many teams after him the millions Darvish bidding be out of his comfort zone. Mentioned we couldn't pay 2 million more to our first round pick because it was out of his comfort zone. Feels more comfortable with MLB free agents where he has seen them pitch a ton. Can't compare him to Dice-K because he thinks DiceK changed once he got here.

And if he likes Darvish, it's better to have the competition believing there is one less 'serious' team bidding.

2009mvp
09-06-2011, 10:09 PM
^^Yeah exactly. Even if he thought he was looking at the next Pedro Martinez I'm fairly certain he would have said the exact same thing. If there's one thing we know about AA it's that he's never going to tip his hand.

Krylian
09-06-2011, 10:18 PM
AA has never said he doesn't plan on being a big player, or a small player. He's always said he's doing his reasearch...they discuss all options with the scouts and management at the end of the year...they leave no stone unturned...all that good stuff. He says nothing about relative interest.

In this case, he said he doesn't plan on being a big bidder. That's outside of how he usually handles things.

That's fine...if he doesn't like him enough to be big on Darvish then I trust AA and the scouts...but I'm not going to pretend like this is how he normally conducts it, cause he normall says nothing...in this case he did. And this leads me to believe that there will be no Darvish for Toronto.

PJ Awesome
09-06-2011, 11:10 PM
Pujols :))))))))))))))))))

mtf
09-07-2011, 02:01 AM
Interesting comments...

I have a feeling the Jays will go hard after CJ Wilson. He pitches great against the AL East and would have a contract more in his comfort zone IMO (5/75 instead of over 100 mil+ for Darvish). Might even take more to get Wilson though depending on interest and how he finishes out the year.

CJ Wilson will be looking for $100M/5 according to MLBTR

GNick
09-07-2011, 06:59 AM
AA has never said he doesn't plan on being a big player, or a small player. He's always said he's doing his reasearch...they discuss all options with the scouts and management at the end of the year...they leave no stone unturned...all that good stuff. He says nothing about relative interest.

In this case, he said he doesn't plan on being a big bidder. That's outside of how he usually handles things.

That's fine...if he doesn't like him enough to be big on Darvish then I trust AA and the scouts...but I'm not going to pretend like this is how he normally conducts it, cause he normall says nothing...in this case he did. And this leads me to believe that there will be no Darvish for Toronto.

I got no problem if AA passes on Darvish neither. Got to remember 100 to 150 million is a lot of money and AA not overly familiar with Darvish's skills and personality. I would imagine AA is sweating over a 150 million offer on Darvish. A talent who he seen pitch once and not at major league level. Plus he can't compare him to Dice-K because we never scouted Dice-K before he came to America.

Still chance on Darvish, no doubt AA will make a bid he is comfortable with. If Yanks or Red Sox dwell in deep be overtop of Blue Jays bid. However, Red Sox may not go deep again after Dice-K and Yankees may make a mistake again. They under bid on Dice-K the first time, it can happen again on Darvish. I see 20-25% chance for us on Darvish

wamco
09-07-2011, 08:12 AM
If the extra M to beade made AA uncomfortable, I can't see how insane bidding on Darvish would be in his comfort zone.

Kenny Powders
09-07-2011, 08:24 AM
So no Darvish then.

Can't pay $2M more to a draft pick cause it's out of your comfort zone?????? Well you had better get comfortable in a damn hurry then!!!

Yes, lets blow 100 million or there abouts on a guy who has never pitched a game in the MLB and who AA has only seen once. I'm all for it if AA wants to make a run at him, but I understand his reasoning. There are many different options out there besides Darvish, he is not the be all to end all.

And its not like Japanese pitchers have the best track record coming out of Japan.

Krylian
09-07-2011, 08:31 AM
Yes, lets blow 100 million or there abouts on a guy who has never pitched a game in the MLB and who AA has only seen once. I'm all for it if AA wants to make a run at him, but I understand his reasoning. There are many different options out there besides Darvish, he is not the be all to end all.

And its not like Japanese pitchers have the best track record coming out of Japan.

He has hired scouts to be his eyes. How many GM's do you think have seen Darvish 15 times?

The point is, if he's uncomfortable, then he'd better get comfortable fast.

If he doesn't want Darvish cause he doesn't think he's good enough then that's one thing...but if it's a matter of not being comfortable spending big money, then I've got a problem with that...and anyone that knows me knows I'm a big time AA supporter.

Krylian
09-07-2011, 08:33 AM
If the extra M to beade made AA uncomfortable, I can't see how insane bidding on Darvish would be in his comfort zone.

Ya...this comfort zone comment kinda pissed me off. I'm fine with having certain values for certain players and walking away if you're not sold on the player or don't think he's worth what he's asking, but merely to be out your comfort zone cause it's a big number sounds stupid.

I hope the comment was taken out of context and that's really not what he means cause it would leave me less than impressed. I want a GM that will pounce when the time is right.

Shifty1 69
09-07-2011, 09:18 AM
A big bid is what it will take. So if he's not going to play with the big boys, he ain't gonna land Darvish.

No, he said he will put a value on him and will stick to that... same thing hes done with every transaction, minor or major league.

Big boys get burned too... Dice K came with sooooo much fanfare, he has been terrible more often than good. I would much rather the $ go to one of the difference making 1B, personally.

Krylian
09-07-2011, 09:37 AM
I would love to see Fielder here also....much younger than Poo Holes.

As for Darvish...it's an exciting proposition, but yes, there is plenty of risk. It'll be a tough decision.

Look at Aroldis as an example. AA stopped the bidding at $23M cause he got uncomfortable....he has since said that he regrets that decision and takes responsibility for it. I respect stepping up and not only acknowledging, but identifying when you've made a mistake...but I don't want those sort of mistakes to repeat themselves. That's all I'm saying. This is the AL East...when it's time, you had better step up. This division isn't for the timid.

Bob_at_york
09-07-2011, 09:48 AM
So no Darvish then.

Can't pay $2M more to a draft pick cause it's out of your comfort zone?????? Well you had better get comfortable in a damn hurry then!!!

Why should he over-pay for everything? I am not comfortable paying $3 for a gatorade at a gas station. But I am comfortable paying $5 for a 4-pack of gatorade at the grocery store. He has a price for things and he doesn't want to over-pay for something that won't be worth the price.

Shifty1 69
09-07-2011, 10:00 AM
Ya...this comfort zone comment kinda pissed me off. I'm fine with having certain values for certain players and walking away if you're not sold on the player or don't think he's worth what he's asking, but merely to be out your comfort zone cause it's a big number sounds stupid.

I hope the comment was taken out of context and that's really not what he means cause it would leave me less than impressed. I want a GM that will pounce when the time is right.

If he took a trip to Japan to see Darvish specifically, then I am pretty sure that the "value" he places on him will be at least somewhat in the realm of realistic. I doubt he is thinking he will sign him on the cheap under the radar of the rest of MLB.
That or he really likes sushi and wanted to milk a trip to Japan on Rogers dime... which is entirely possible. lol

If AA's time as GM has taught us anything, its to not read into comments too much and to expect the unexpected. Whether he says he will go all in on Darvish or has no interest in him at all doesn't really matter because he will not tip his hand regardless of his ultimate intention.

Krylian
09-07-2011, 10:04 AM
Why should he over-pay for everything? I am not comfortable paying $3 for a gatorade at a gas station. But I am comfortable paying $5 for a 4-pack of gatorade at the grocery store. He has a price for things and he doesn't want to over-pay for something that won't be worth the price.

Not saying he should overpay...not at all.

I'm just saying that the way I took the 'not comfortable' comment is that is wasn't necessarily about overpaying, but just the fact that it's a lot of money.

Like buying a house...if AA's buying a house in a neighbourhood where they are all $750K...I'm not expecting him to pay $1M...but I do expect that he won't say....'well, $750K is a fair price, but boy...that's a lot of money...and I'm uncomfortable to spend $750K.' That's just how it felt when I read the comments. If he thinkgs someone is worth a certain amount, I want him to feel comfortable about spending up to that amount.

Krylian
09-07-2011, 10:07 AM
If AA's time as GM has taught us anything, its to not read into comments too much and to expect the unexpected. Whether he says he will go all in on Darvish or has no interest in him at all doesn't really matter because he will not tip his hand regardless of his ultimate intention.

I agree.

The only thing I'd say to that is that AA normally says nothing at all...but for Darvish he said he doesn't expect to be a big bidder.

I'm sure I'm just nitpicking...I just found it a little odd that he actually went on the record and said he doesn't expect to be a big player here.

Bob_at_york
09-07-2011, 10:08 AM
Not saying he should overpay...not at all.

I'm just saying that the way I took the 'not comfortable' comment is that is wasn't necessarily about overpaying, but just the fact that it's a lot of money.

Like buying a house...if AA's buying a house in a neighbourhood where they are all $750K...I'm not expecting him to pay $1M...but I do expect that he won't say....'well, $750K is a fair price, but boy...that's a lot of money...and I'm uncomfortable to spend $750K.' That's just how it felt when I read the comments. If he thinkgs someone is worth a certain amount, I want him to feel comfortable about spending up to that amount.

look at the contract he has given out. Do you really think he is worried about spending money?

Krylian
09-07-2011, 10:12 AM
look at the contract he has given out. Do you really think he is worried about spending money?

He's gotten a deal with almost every contract he's handed out. Am I missing a big $100M+ deal that he's signed somewhere? Isn't Bautista only making $14M or so a year?

I'm not complaining...that's awesome value. I'm just going based on his own comments about not being comfortable and what exactly he means by that. And don't pretend to know...we can assume all we want...but we'll see in the next year or two when the team starts to get better and verteran augmentation is the play.

Bob_at_york
09-07-2011, 10:18 AM
He's gotten a deal with almost every contract he's handed out. Am I missing a big $100M+ deal that he's signed somewhere? Isn't Bautista only making $14M or so a year?
they don't have to be $100mil deals to show that he isn't afraid to spend. He has signed Bautista, Escabar and Frasor in just the last year. It has been said that he had a hand in Aaron Hill's contract.


I'm not complaining...that's awesome value. I'm just going based on his own comments about not being comfortable and what exactly he means by that. And don't pretend to know...we can assume all we want...but we'll see in the next year or two when the team starts to get better and verteran augmentation is the play.
I feel Alex has explained himself quite well in interviews when he discusses how he establishes price points for players and doesn't want to go past the price he and his staff have created. I don't think I am pretending anything.

Krylian
09-07-2011, 10:27 AM
That's how I always viewed his philosophy as well. I'm hoping I just took his words out of context in this last instance.

B2B
09-07-2011, 11:03 AM
He has hired scouts to be his eyes. How many GM's do you think have seen Darvish 15 times?

The point is, if he's uncomfortable, then he'd better get comfortable fast.

If he doesn't want Darvish cause he doesn't think he's good enough then that's one thing...but if it's a matter of not being comfortable spending big money, then I've got a problem with that...and anyone that knows me knows I'm a big time AA supporter.

Reading the comment that he tried to slip on a plain only to be seen by 14 scouts is the most telling quote on his interest in Darvish IMO.

What I took from that is that he's trying to down play the Jays interest maybe to not to have one of the Yanks or Redsox put in an over the top prevention bid like the Sox did the Yanks with Dice-K.

Knowledge of AA being interested in Darvish IMO would only spike the price.

If he was as uncomfortable as he is leading on he wouldn't have cared that he didn't make it to Japan unnoticed,

koreancabbage
09-07-2011, 11:12 AM
Reading the comment that he tried to slip on a plain only to be seen by 14 scouts is the most telling quote on his interest in Darvish IMO.

What I took from that is that he's trying to down play the Jays interest maybe to not to have one of the Yanks or Redsox put in an over the top prevention bid like the Sox did the Yanks with Dice-K.

Knowledge of AA being interested in Darvish IMO would only spike the price.

If he was as uncomfortable as he is leading on he wouldn't have cared that he didn't make it to Japan unnoticed,

well, he should've chartered a private jet LOL

or wear a baseball cap (not the Jays) and a trench coat lol

it'll be interesting what the other teams think when they know AA is interested in Darvish as well. well considering that half the scouts were there on the plane. a lot of teams are interest or doing their due diligience.

would you like if the Jays signed Darvish B2B? of course it comes with the huge posting fee and maybe 11-13 million per year perhaps?

broncosfan_101
09-07-2011, 11:35 AM
Should anyone be comfortable giving out $100+M to a guy only seen a few times, and against Japanese competition? Good lord, this comment got blown way out of proportion. Of course he should be uncomfortable, that's a ton of money to a virtual unknown.

B2B
09-07-2011, 12:12 PM
well, he should've chartered a private jet LOL

or wear a baseball cap (not the Jays) and a trench coat lol

it'll be interesting what the other teams think when they know AA is interested in Darvish as well. well considering that half the scouts were there on the plane. a lot of teams are interest or doing their due diligience.

would you like if the Jays signed Darvish B2B? of course it comes with the huge posting fee and maybe 11-13 million per year perhaps?

Like everyone else it comes down to his value/price point & potential return on investment. None of which I have an accurate account. As I don't know the finance it would potentially take to acquire, I haven't seen him pitch & have no insight to any potential marketing plans. Without this information I cannot say whether I think he's worth it or not.

What I can say is I think he would be better than Dice-K for the following reasons

-His frame, 6'5" 200lb
-His usage, not as overworked as Dice-K
-Most prospects that have 4 pitches are considered potential aces, Darvish has 3+ offspeed pitches sinker,slider,curveball combined with a mid 90's fastball
-Higher status/recognition in Japan for a possible marketing venture/return on investment.

Assuming the Jays put down a 50mil posting fee & offered 10-12mil for 6 years, & he pitched like an Ace, would you not think the investment worthwhile?

It's at this point you trust AA & his scouts to put the correct dollar/value price on him.

ChongInc.
09-07-2011, 06:14 PM
I like that AA has provence can clear mistakes. Almost Colangelo esk. Especially with the youth movement he has been building, you need to be able to admit when someone isnt panning out. It'll be interesting to see what he does if Drabek has another poor year next year. I could see him flipping him this offseason if he can get some good value.

Big Hurt
09-07-2011, 09:12 PM
Like everyone else it comes down to his value/price point & potential return on investment. None of which I have an accurate account. As I don't know the finance it would potentially take to acquire, I haven't seen him pitch & have no insight to any potential marketing plans. Without this information I cannot say whether I think he's worth it or not.

What I can say is I think he would be better than Dice-K for the following reasons

-His frame, 6'5" 200lb
-His usage, not as overworked as Dice-K
-Most prospects that have 4 pitches are considered potential aces, Darvish has 3+ offspeed pitches sinker,slider,curveball combined with a mid 90's fastball
-Higher status/recognition in Japan for a possible marketing venture/return on investment.

Assuming the Jays put down a 50mil posting fee & offered 10-12mil for 6 years, & he pitched like an Ace, would you not think the investment worthwhile?

It's at this point you trust AA & his scouts to put the correct dollar/value price on him.

When you are not the Yanks or Sox you can't afford spending $110-120 million over 6 years ($20ish million/season) for anything less than a 100% no question Superstar.
Puljos or Fielder types.
Too big of a risk for the Jays.
Even look at aroldis chapman.
Everyone considered that to be a great deal for Cincy.
How does 3.71 ERA over 40 innings pitch look???
Golden arm with a less than golden production thus far.

wamco
09-07-2011, 10:57 PM
i don't know if i ever heard the term "great deal" with chapman

Krylian
09-08-2011, 09:20 AM
When you are not the Yanks or Sox you can't afford spending $110-120 million over 6 years ($20ish million/season) for anything less than a 100% no question Superstar.
Puljos or Fielder types.
Too big of a risk for the Jays.
Even look at aroldis chapman.
Everyone considered that to be a great deal for Cincy.
How does 3.71 ERA over 40 innings pitch look???
Golden arm with a less than golden production thus far.

Chapman was $30M, not $100M+.
Also, he's a kid with tons of upside. No one ever peddled him off as a polished talent. I'd take Chapman for $30M and work with him.

GNick
09-26-2011, 06:28 PM
Paul Beeston was on FAN590 tonight:

- For first time in awhile I felt positive for immediate future following one of these interviews from the Jays Brass. Reading between the lines sounds like the Jays will go for a big fish this off season. Beeston says he was disappointed in the season and wanted to be playing on Friday.

- Next year is Beeston's final year in Toronto and wants next year to mean something special. He's tired of the wait 2 years or 3 years saying around the Blue Jays last few years. Jays have the building blocks in Bautista and Romero, plus Lawrie for a full year, wants to add a couple of players and team to have some fun next year.

- Jays are in position to do a Roy Halladay type trade in reverse. Many teams have inquired about some of our minor league prospects. We have 3 young catchers and 3 outfielders.

- Jays could move a position player and move a prospect in. Compared it to trading Alfredo Griffin and bringing up Tony Fernandez back in the day.

- Needs the pitching.

- Likes the idea of adding the extra playoff team. Be like a Game 7 for the two Wildcard teams.

wagnall
09-26-2011, 06:36 PM
Sounds more promising than AA's article, and Beeston is the boss. Maybe we're more active then expected. Could make for a fun off season.

fatkev78
09-26-2011, 06:53 PM
Link to interview: http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20110926_172910_5356

GNick
09-26-2011, 07:06 PM
Sounds more promising than AA's article, and Beeston is the boss. Maybe we're more active then expected. Could make for a fun off season.

I liked the part where McGown says he sees the teaming contending in 2013 or 2014 and Beeston says he totally disagrees.

jaysnraptors44
09-26-2011, 07:17 PM
I liked the part where McGown says he sees the teaming contending in 2013 or 2014 and Beeston says he totally disagrees.

lol that can be a good thing or a bad thing maybe he disagrees because he thinks it could take longer ? but hopefully he disagrees because he thinks it can take a shorter time

NewYorkStandUp
09-26-2011, 08:20 PM
''Jays are in position to do a Roy Halladay type trade in reverse. Many teams have inquired about some of our minor league prospects. We have 3 young catchers and 3 outfielders.''

Joey Votto.

NewYorkStandUp
09-26-2011, 08:31 PM
''Jays are in position to do a Roy Halladay type trade in reverse. Many teams have inquired about some of our minor league prospects. We have 3 young catchers and 3 outfielders''

...Joey Votto

GNick
09-26-2011, 09:20 PM
''Jays are in position to do a Roy Halladay type trade in reverse. Many teams have inquired about some of our minor league prospects. We have 3 young catchers and 3 outfielders''

...Joey Votto

Most will think that and it may turn out to be true but it didn't sound that way. I got the idea he was talking about pitching.

mtf
09-26-2011, 09:48 PM
Most will think that and it may turn out to be true but it didn't sound that way. I got the idea he was talking about pitching.

What gave you that impression?

Bob_at_york
09-26-2011, 10:55 PM
What gave you that impression?

I got that impression because Beeston sounded relatively happy with a lot of their position players. He did admit a need in the pitching staff.

mtf
09-26-2011, 10:59 PM
I got that impression because Beeston sounded relatively happy with a lot of their position players. He did admit a need in the pitching staff.

I dunno, sounded like the only concern he showed was the bullpen.

I think upgrading at first base and your cleanup hitter has to be a huge priority for this team if they want to compete in the years to come.

scaramantula
09-26-2011, 11:30 PM
''Jays are in position to do a Roy Halladay type trade in reverse. Many teams have inquired about some of our minor league prospects. We have 3 young catchers and 3 outfielders''

...Joey Votto

why get votto when fielder is a free agent and wouldnt cost us any prospects, if we want to compete next year though the main thing we need is pitching, we have plenty of hitters already

Billyen
09-26-2011, 11:32 PM
Great interview. Good to hear from the horses mouth. Remember, Beeston is the direct link with the Jays and Rogers. He's told them we need to go all in. They've said yes.

Re-build over.

1 blockbuster a lock. 2 more than likely. 3 possible.

Toxeryll
09-27-2011, 12:11 AM
i wonder if AA is gonna go away from his conservative approach and may be forced by Beeston to make some blockbuster moves this offseason.

mtf
09-27-2011, 02:39 AM
why get votto when fielder is a free agent and wouldnt cost us any prospects, if we want to compete next year though the main thing we need is pitching, we have plenty of hitters already

Well, aside from the fact that Votto is simply the better player and fits the mold of what the Blue Jays are currently looking for in terms of athletic ability, Alex Anthopoulos has said that he'd rather persue players via the trade market rather than free agency because he has more control and also doesn't get into an unnecessary bidding war among other teams.

Also, you can't simply decide to get Prince Fielder through free agency and all of a sudden it's done. It's been suggested that he wouldn't want to sign here, that he wants to play in California and possibly remain in the National League .

mtf
09-27-2011, 02:41 AM
i wonder if AA is gonna go away from his conservative approach and may be forced by Beeston to make some blockbuster moves this offseason.

This is not based off any facts, it's just an opinion based on what I've seen from Beeston over the years, but he doesn't seem like the type to be a puppet master. I think he is an adviser or sounding board for the General Managers whom he employs.

GNick
09-27-2011, 03:21 AM
What gave you that impression?

He said "needs the pitching". I know he was talking about the bullpen in part but he did say we have only 2 starters where they should be.

What part about the interview I found puzzling was his statement about doing a Alfredo Griffin/Tony Fernandez thing again. The problem I have with this statement what position player is he talking about? To my knowledge we have no prospect who is ready to bump a position player right now!

GNick
09-27-2011, 03:35 AM
why get votto when fielder is a free agent and wouldnt cost us any prospects, if we want to compete next year though the main thing we need is pitching, we have plenty of hitters already

Sounds on the surface free agency is better because don't have to give up anything in terms of players. But in the end it is generally the opposite. The financial cost is generally higher thru free agency, have to surrender draft picks and harder to control what kind of player he gets.

Anthopoulos has said several times he can control what kind of player he gets thru trades better than free agency.

Financial wise - Actually ends up costing us more prospects to sign a big name free agent than surrendering 2 or 3 in a trade. The dollars difference will allow the team more flexibility to buy draft picks, pay overslot and sign Internationally.

FrenchyCanadian
09-27-2011, 08:19 AM
''Jays are in position to do a Roy Halladay type trade in reverse. Many teams have inquired about some of our minor league prospects. We have 3 young catchers and 3 outfielders.''

Joey Votto.

How much would we have to add to Adam Lind to acquire Votto? A couple of top prospects...like Jiminez and Sierra with Lind? Beeston said he had depth at catcher and outfield.

Lind if he wasn't injured for a month this season would have hit 34 homers with 112 rbis. Plus can play the outfield and is signed reasonably for next 5 years. So, he should have good trade value also.

mtf
09-27-2011, 08:43 AM
How much would we have to add to Adam Lind to acquire Votto? A couple of top prospects...like Jiminez and Sierra with Lind? Beeston said he had depth at catcher and outfield.

Lind if he wasn't injured for a month this season would have hit 34 homers with 112 rbis. Plus can play the outfield and is signed reasonably for next 5 years. So, he should have good trade value also.

To say that Lind is would've got 34 HR/112 RBI's is a stretch. He missed about 20 games in May, that hardly works out to 8 HR/26 RBI's.

Anyways, on topic of his trade value. He has had 1 good month in the past 2 seasons. I'm not saying he doesn't have any value, because pretty much every major leaguer has some value, but it isn't high.

Also, the Reds MIGHT be amenable to trading Joey Votto if the right deal came along, but it's because they have their own 1B prospect coming along that they would want to slot in there, not block him with Lind.

pebloemer
09-27-2011, 08:52 AM
He said "needs the pitching". I know he was talking about the bullpen in part but he did say we have only 2 starters where they should be.

What part about the interview I found puzzling was his statement about doing a Alfredo Griffin/Tony Fernandez thing again. The problem I have with this statement what position player is he talking about? To my knowledge we have no prospect who is ready to bump a position player right now!

The only people I can think of would be D'Arnaud or Hech/Arencibia or Yunel. Unless he is talking about Cooper or Snider having a spot with the team at 1B or LF respectively. The only positions I can really rule out at this point are CF, RF and 3B. I can't imagine a situation where he sees Bautista, Rasmus or Lawrie expendable.

FrenchyCanadian
09-27-2011, 09:30 AM
To say that Lind is would've got 34 HR/112 RBI's is a stretch. He missed about 20 games in May, that hardly works out to 8 HR/26 RBI's.

Anyways, on topic of his trade value. He has had 1 good month in the past 2 seasons. I'm not saying he doesn't have any value, because pretty much every major leaguer has some value, but it isn't high.

Also, the Reds MIGHT be amenable to trading Joey Votto if the right deal came along, but it's because they have their own 1B prospect coming along that they would want to slot in there, not block him with Lind.

According to Baseball Reference Adam Lind missed 38 games this year not 20.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lindad01.shtml

bartron_44
09-27-2011, 10:15 AM
In regards to the Tony Fernandez comment , I could see him talking about either Hech or Gose. They are both foolish defensively, so to put either of them up the middle in our defense wouldn't be such a bad thing imo. If your top 7 hitters are all above average, then you can afford a couple of defensive minded players at the bottom of your lineup.

If we aren't going to pay to resign Kelly Johnson, I could see Hech coming up to play SS, and Escobar moving over to second base to give us a foolish up the middle combo.

Since we have guys like Davis,Snider and Loewen, I wouldn't say Rasmus isn't expendable if he can help net us a premium starting pitcher.

I think Rasmus, D'Arnaud, Cooper, Litsch and Cecil should be able to net us a VERY good starting pitcher. That is a better package then what we got for Halladay, so I think we could ask for almost anyone if we are willing to part with those 3 young potential all-stars.

I think we should be asking Seattle what it would take for King Felix .He has a winning record against every team in our division, and would be the ideal person to take Alvarez under his wing.

I think we have plenty of assets that could be very valuable to Seattle ...Smoak has had about 900 PA's with an OPS barely over .700. Cust did nothing for them this year. Ichiro is getting old and looks to be tailing off, Saunders hasn't hit in the big leagues so far, and their top ranked catching "prospect" is already 27 and hasn't shown any signs of hitting big league pitching. They could really use some good young bats to inject some life into their offense if they want to start winning some games.

B2B
09-27-2011, 10:24 AM
The only people I can think of would be D'Arnaud or Hech/Arencibia or Yunel. Unless he is talking about Cooper or Snider having a spot with the team at 1B or LF respectively. The only positions I can really rule out at this point are CF, RF and 3B. I can't imagine a situation where he sees Bautista, Rasmus or Lawrie expendable.

Looked it up, Griffin was traded after sharing the rookie of the year award. The only player you mentioned in that category is JPA.

D'Arnaud is supposedly better defensively & in calling games, while possessing the offensive potential to be a complete player & like you said JPA could have more trade value than Snider currently aswell.

It's also my opinion the fact the Jays pitching staff finished 6th this season is somewhat attributed to JPA's game calling.

If I knew how, I would compare splits between Buck/Molina & JPA over the pass 2 seasons to show this.

An example off the top of my head is a game in which Alvarez pitched to the Rays. Where on 3, 2 strike counts JPA called for breaking balls that all ended up as homeruns, you would think after the 1st 2 he would have stayed away from the breaking ball in that count.

Alvarez's next start was against the better hitting Sox team, he one hit them with Molina catching & it's my belief it's because Molina calls a better game than JPA. Ask Morrow who had JPA call more of his games this season than last.

bartron_44
09-27-2011, 10:31 AM
According to Baseball Reference Adam Lind missed 38 games this year not 20.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lindad01.shtml

Lind as done 2 things well this year at the plate:

Hit the long ball
drive in runs

Good numbers for a catcher maybe...but his OBP and OPS are BRUTAL for a 1st basemen. Can you imagine how many RBI's a .300 hitter with an OPS over .900 would have had if they got to bat cleanup behind Bautista all year like Lind has? encarnacion has 15 RBI's in only 16 games as the cleanup hitter. As a reference, EE drove in 15 runs while batting cleanup in 16 games this year..

I would love to see AA go out and buy a first basemen to replace Lind as our cleanup hitter. He is too big of a crap shoot to count on to produce for us if we are going for it imo.

B2B
09-27-2011, 10:42 AM
In regards to the Tony Fernandez comment , I could see him talking about either Hech or Gose. They are both foolish defensively, so to put either of them up the middle in our defense wouldn't be such a bad thing imo. If your top 7 hitters are all above average, then you can afford a couple of defensive minded players at the bottom of your lineup.

Personally, If it were my team I would take Gose's speed & defensive upgrade over Rasmus potential bat.


If we aren't going to pay to resign Kelly Johnson, I could see Hech coming up to play SS, and Escobar moving over to second base to give us a foolish up the middle combo.

Hecherverra's value is defensively at SS, IMO Escobar is a more complete player at that position than Herchaverra. So for 2nd base its go big (Reyes) or go home (McCoy/McDonald) & allot the 7mil elsware, collect the picks.

Makes Herchaverra expendable to trade where I'm sure alot of teams would want an excellent defensive SS. It's not as if Escobar talent is all bat.


Since we have guys like Davis,Snider and Loewen, I wouldn't say Rasmus isn't expendable if he can help net us a premium starting pitcher.

Or Votto, Reds need a OF/CF & top end pitching I would offer a Morrow, Rasmus, Herchaverra package for Votto.


I think Rasmus, D'Arnaud, Cooper, Litsch and Cecil should be able to net us a VERY good starting pitcher. That is a better package then what we got for Halladay, so I think we could ask for almost anyone if we are willing to part with those 3 young potential all-stars.

According to the Fernandez quote JPA not D'Arnaurd is the trade bait. Something along the lines of a top end pitching prospect or 2, JPA, Snider could land a good starting pitcher.


I think we should be asking Seattle what it would take for King Felix .He has a winning record against every team in our division, and would be the ideal person to take Alvarez under his wing.

Felix doesn't want to be traded nor does Seattle want to move him = if you do get him it's because of a massive overpayment.


I think we have plenty of assets that could be very valuable to Seattle ...Smoak has had about 900 PA's with an OPS barely over .700. Cust did nothing for them this year. Ichiro is getting old and looks to be tailing off, Saunders hasn't hit in the big leagues so far, and their top ranked catching "prospect" is already 27 and hasn't shown any signs of hitting big league pitching. They could really use some good young bats to inject some life into their offense if they want to start winning some games.

Recap.

(Morrow, Rasmus, Herchaverra) for Votto.

(Pitching prospect or 2, JPA, Thames/Snider) for a top end starter.

Sign Darvish or Wilson to replace Morrow.

Darvish/Wilson
Romero
Alvarez
Cecil
Drabek/McGowen

+ possible trade for another starter.

GNick
09-27-2011, 10:47 AM
In regards to the Tony Fernandez comment , I could see him talking about either Hech or Gose. They are both foolish defensively, so to put either of them up the middle in our defense wouldn't be such a bad thing imo. If your top 7 hitters are all above average, then you can afford a couple of defensive minded players at the bottom of your lineup.

If we aren't going to pay to resign Kelly Johnson, I could see Hech coming up to play SS, and Escobar moving over to second base to give us a foolish up the middle combo.

Since we have guys like Davis,Snider and Loewen, I wouldn't say Rasmus isn't expendable if he can help net us a premium starting pitcher.

I think Rasmus, D'Arnaud, Cooper, Litsch and Cecil should be able to net us a VERY good starting pitcher. That is a better package then what we got for Halladay, so I think we could ask for almost anyone if we are willing to part with those 3 young potential all-stars.

I think we should be asking Seattle what it would take for King Felix .He has a winning record against every team in our division, and would be the ideal person to take Alvarez under his wing.

I think we have plenty of assets that could be very valuable to Seattle ...Smoak has had about 900 PA's with an OPS barely over .700. Cust did nothing for them this year. Ichiro is getting old and looks to be tailing off, Saunders hasn't hit in the big leagues so far, and their top ranked catching "prospect" is already 27 and hasn't shown any signs of hitting big league pitching. They could really use some good young bats to inject some life into their offense if they want to start winning some games.

I could see Hech more than Gose. Where he was in Triple A this season. Beeston sounded solid on Rasmus, doesn't sound at all like they will trade him. Said he liked the way he glided to the ball, statistics wise he said Rasmus was one of best 3 centerfielders in game last year(2010) at 23 years old. Which don't sound like the words of a guy they are thinking about trading. At least not this off season. Likewise I doubt Jays will move Escobar to 2b, Anthopoulos said a couple of weeks ago his value around the league is much higher as a shortstop than playing 2b for us. You are right it is a possibility Escobar could be gone. Never really thought of it before but his trade value is all time high and if we add a Votto Jays offense can go with great glove at shortstop. Hech has the gold glove now. It does explain Hech surprise promotion to Las Vegas in August.

On King Felix, I just don't see it yet, he may be a plan B though? Going by Buster Olney twitter account, Beeston saying we "need the pitching" and Anthopoulos flying to Japan to view Darvish in person says we probably will be up there in the bidding. If Jays can trade for Votto instead of signing a Fielder it does save 18 million first 2 years in salary. Which Anthopoulos could add to his bid for Darvish. Making it difficult for any team to outbid us. Votto is the much better player than Fielder and we also not be committed to lengthy contract trying to acquire a Fielder. Both two things which AA will want the positives. Votto is better than Fielder and we are not committed to long contract likely to be bad on back end, it does also give us more financial freedom to be a major factor in Darvish sweeepstakes.

B2B
09-27-2011, 11:06 AM
I could see Hech more than Gose. Where he was in Triple A this season. Beeston sounded solid on Rasmus, doesn't sound at all like they will trade him. Said he liked the way he glided to the ball, statistics wise he said Rasmus was one of best 3 centerfielders in game last year(2010) at 23 years old. Which don't sound like the words of a guy they are thinking about trading. At least not this off season. Likewise I doubt Jays will move Escobar to 2b, Anthopoulos said a couple of weeks ago his value around the league is much higher as a shortstop than playing 2b for us. You are right it is a possibility Escobar could be gone. Never really thought of it before but his trade value is all time high and if we add a Votto Jays offense can go with great glove at shortstop. Hech has the gold glove now. It does explain Hech surprise promotion to Las Vegas in August.

IMO a surprise promotion is to bump trade value, why rush development otherwise if intention is to play him on the big team?. My understanding is the Jays can call him up from any division at any point to join the club, that it wouldn't make a difference to bump him unless it's to say AAA #'s not AA #'s when mentioning his name in trade.


On King Felix, I just don't see it yet, he may be a plan B though? Going by Buster Olney twitter account, Beeston saying we "need the pitching" and Anthopoulos flying to Japan to view Darvish in person says we probably will be up there in the bidding. If Jays can trade for Votto instead of signing a Fielder it does save 18 million first 2 years in salary. Which Anthopoulos could add to his bid for Darvish. Making it difficult for any team to outbid us. Votto is the much better player than Fielder and we also not be committed to lengthy contract trying to acquire a Fielder. Both two things which AA will want the positives. Votto is better than Fielder and we are not committed to long contract likely to be bad on back end, it does also give us more financial freedom to be a major factor in Darvish sweeepstakes.

Is it not possible Jays could/would negotiate an extension for Votto if traded?.

If he's a better player than Feilder it wouldn't be long before he's making Feilder + type money anyways. The money aspect of talent cannot be avoided if Jays want to compete & stay relevant..

GNick
09-27-2011, 01:42 PM
IMO a surprise promotion is to bump trade value, why rush development otherwise if intention is to play him on the big team?. My understanding is the Jays can call him up from any division at any point to join the club, that it wouldn't make a difference to bump him unless it's to say AAA #'s not AA #'s when mentioning his name in trade.



Is it not possible Jays could/would negotiate an extension for Votto if traded?.

If he's a better player than Feilder it wouldn't be long before he's making Feilder + type money anyways. The money aspect of talent cannot be avoided if Jays want to compete & stay relevant..

I doubt Anthopoulos would negotiate an extension on Votto right away. Goes back to him saying he likes to know a player better before giving out the big long term contracts. Can't blame AA on that one...just doing his due diligence.

After 2 years Votto be making same as Fielder but 18 million saved in first two years, plus Votto is the better player and not the high risk of bad contract Fielder is. So, all it all much better to move on Votto

wagnall
09-27-2011, 03:21 PM
It really doesn't make sence to me when people put out #'s that someone would have put up had he not be injured. How do we know he wouldn't have worse #'s. And the idea of blaming injuries for a guy who's OBP is sub .300 is not an aurgument anyone will win. As for Linds down time it should be noted that he's had 495 PA's, 3rd on the team,
only Esc. at 513 and Bauts at 506 have more and those #'s are pretty close. So he's had his chance like and more than everyone else!

GNick
09-27-2011, 03:45 PM
It really doesn't make sence to me when people put out #'s that someone would have put up had he not be injured. How do we know he wouldn't have worse #'s. And the idea of blaming injuries for a guy who's OBP is sub .300 is not an aurgument anyone will win. As for Linds down time it should be noted that he's had 495 PA's, 3rd on the team,
only Esc. at 513 and Bauts at 506 have more and those #'s are pretty close. So he's had his chance like and more than everyone else!

Team has been cursed with injuries this year that is for sure. Not just Lind, but losing Lawrie for 6 weeks, Escobar seemed like he's been injured off and on all season. Bautista has missed a fair bit of time, Rasmus. Just been a bad year for injuries hope we don't have it again next year

wagnall
09-27-2011, 06:20 PM
Unfortunatly its the nature of the game to have injuries, but hopefully we are in a better position next year bench wise, and some of our prospects get closer that brief injuries won't hit us in the go-nads as bad as this year. :pray:

NewYorkStandUp
09-27-2011, 07:01 PM
why get votto when fielder is a free agent and wouldnt cost us any prospects, if we want to compete next year though the main thing we need is pitching, we have plenty of hitters already

Prince Fielder is very unlikely to get. AA said he'd rather acquire a star player like Fielder through a trade.
Joey Votto would fit this team perfectly, him playing for his country, might take his game to another level!

wagnall
09-27-2011, 07:10 PM
I am convinced , why I don't know, go with the gut, that we get Votto for next year or a carbon copy of him from somewhere. Don't think that Beeston and AA's head doesn't drop everytime Bauts gets on and is left there. And that it doesn't matter who on our team we put behind him is, with a man on Bauts gets pitched around. NO FEAR!

NewYorkStandUp
09-27-2011, 07:47 PM
I am convinced , why I don't know, go with the gut, that we get Votto for next year or a carbon copy of him from somewhere. Don't think that Beeston and AA's head doesn't drop everytime Bauts gets on and is left there. And that it doesn't matter who on our team we put behind him is, with a man on Bauts gets pitched around. NO FEAR!

I AGREE WITH THIS! :)
I know for a fact, this off season we're gonna get a star player that will bat behind Bautista, like you said Joey Votto or a ''carbon copy'' of him. I gurantee this.

wagnall
09-27-2011, 07:55 PM
I still think Fielder is headed for the Cubs. With Ram going FA and Pena contract done thats 26m freed up for him. Chicago really has to start winning, prob. is Fielder was pretty addement at the allstar game that he wants to play and on a contender. So I see him in the NL and can Chicago show him they are going to contend.

But I believe in the Shwartz and see a Votto or a clone of him coming for 2012. Got to have hope.

GNick
09-28-2011, 06:20 AM
I am convinced , why I don't know, go with the gut, that we get Votto for next year or a carbon copy of him from somewhere. Don't think that Beeston and AA's head doesn't drop everytime Bauts gets on and is left there. And that it doesn't matter who on our team we put behind him is, with a man on Bauts gets pitched around. NO FEAR!

I agree! Only I don't see Cincy going for all prospects like some posters are mentioning. Where they are not rebuilding. I see a (Escobar) where Beeston mentioned the Griffin/Fernandez possibility the other night, that was in his mind for a reason. A prospect (Jiminez), since Beeston mentioned quite a bit about him and not any other prospects, and a young arm (Cecil) for Votto and look for AA to try and squeeze Phillips out of it. That would be my guess on the trade.

damadmonk
09-28-2011, 11:08 AM
I wonder if Matt Garza is available.

town123
09-28-2011, 08:20 PM
I agree! Only I don't see Cincy going for all prospects like some posters are mentioning. Where they are not rebuilding. I see a (Escobar) where Beeston mentioned the Griffin/Fernandez possibility the other night, that was in his mind for a reason. A prospect (Jiminez), since Beeston mentioned quite a bit about him and not any other prospects, and a young arm (Cecil) for Votto and look for AA to try and squeeze Phillips out of it. That would be my guess on the trade.

Seriously.

If you were the GM of the Jays, would you trade away Joey Votto for Escobar, Cecil (bum) and Jiminez?

Didn't think so.

GNick
09-28-2011, 08:38 PM
Seriously.

If you were the GM of the Jays, would you trade away Joey Votto for Escobar, Cecil (bum) and Jiminez?

Didn't think so.

See this is why can't discuss trades on here because people don't have no clue. See what it does? Look at the Wells or Rasmus trades and how they were scoffed at on here?

Jamiecballer
09-28-2011, 09:01 PM
^ you are out to lunch.

mike_noodles
09-28-2011, 09:16 PM
Seriously.

If you were the GM of the Jays, would you trade away Joey Votto for Escobar, Cecil (bum) and Jiminez?

Didn't think so.

A near all star short stop and a pitcher that won 15 games last year? That may be good value for Votto, especially when the Reds have another kid ready to step in for Votto immediately.

town123
09-28-2011, 09:17 PM
See this is why can't discuss trades on here because people don't have no clue. See what it does? Look at the Wells or Rasmus trades and how they were scoffed at on here?

That's fine. Let me put it to you this way then. If Votto was a Jay and AA traded him to Cinci for Escobar, Cecil and Jiminez, would you be

A. happy
B. not happy
C. have no clue

Just because I criticize your idea doesn't mean I don't appreciate your point of view and your thoughts on potential trades. :)

town123
09-28-2011, 09:19 PM
A near all star short stop and a pitcher that won 15 games last year? That may be good value for Votto, especially when the Reds have another kid ready to step in for Votto immediately.

Mike. For one of THE top sluggers in the game today? Cecil and Esco?

MikeG
09-29-2011, 01:04 AM
I agree! Only I don't see Cincy going for all prospects like some posters are mentioning. Where they are not rebuilding. I see a (Escobar) where Beeston mentioned the Griffin/Fernandez possibility the other night, that was in his mind for a reason. A prospect (Jiminez), since Beeston mentioned quite a bit about him and not any other prospects, and a young arm (Cecil) for Votto and look for AA to try and squeeze Phillips out of it. That would be my guess on the trade.

Add Gose into that deal, then your talking

mtf
09-29-2011, 02:07 AM
I agree! Only I don't see Cincy going for all prospects like some posters are mentioning. Where they are not rebuilding. I see a (Escobar) where Beeston mentioned the Griffin/Fernandez possibility the other night, that was in his mind for a reason. A prospect (Jiminez), since Beeston mentioned quite a bit about him and not any other prospects, and a young arm (Cecil) for Votto and look for AA to try and squeeze Phillips out of it. That would be my guess on the trade.

Uhh, while I'm not going to say for certain they are rebuilding, my opinion is that they are about to. They didn't make any moves mortgaging the future at the deadline to try to get into the playoffs, and as a result they sank in the division to sub-.500. They are not a big budget team and Brandon Phillips & Joey Votto make a high percentage of their overall payroll. Pretty sure they're knocking on the door of rebuilding.

Halladay
09-29-2011, 05:10 AM
Escobar, Cecil and Jiminez for AN MVP. Is that a joke? Would anyone take that package for Bautista? Yeah, didn't think so. You wanna know what it would take to get Votto? Think of the Halladay deal. These are elite players guys, the best of the best. Here's pretty much what would happen; AA would tell Cincy to scout our system and pick half a dozen prospects they like, AA narrows it down to three and go from there. Even then a deal may not get done. This is an MVP we're talking about here you aren't getting a player of that quality while only giving up Escobar(a good SS/borderline all-star), Cecil(not exactly impressing us) and Jimenez(mid-level spec). Look at it from Cincy's perspective, why the hell would they take that offer when half the teams in baseball would offer something twice as good.

Krylian
09-29-2011, 08:42 AM
See this is why can't discuss trades on here because people don't have no clue. See what it does? Look at the Wells or Rasmus trades and how they were scoffed at on here?

Comparing Wells to Votto is apples and oranges.

Wells have little to no value. Votto has tremendous value. So saying that one was moved therefore the other could be gotten for a mediocre package is folly.

And you didn't answer the question. If Votto was in Toronto and Cincy offered, Escobar, Cecil, and Jimenez would you jump at that deal and move Votto?

No chance.

ah nuts
09-29-2011, 11:01 AM
I agree! Only I don't see Cincy going for all prospects like some posters are mentioning. Where they are not rebuilding. I see a (Escobar) where Beeston mentioned the Griffin/Fernandez possibility the other night, that was in his mind for a reason. A prospect (Jiminez), since Beeston mentioned quite a bit about him and not any other prospects, and a young arm (Cecil) for Votto and look for AA to try and squeeze Phillips out of it. That would be my guess on the trade.

it could be a better year for trading. A lot of trading pieces value could be so much better.

Cecil
Snider
Rasmus
Drabeck
Lind

ILDD
09-29-2011, 11:54 AM
Comparing Wells to Votto is apples and oranges.

Wells have little to no value. Votto has tremendous value. So saying that one was moved therefore the other could be gotten for a mediocre package is folly.

And you didn't answer the question. If Votto was in Toronto and Cincy offered, Escobar, Cecil, and Jimenez would you jump at that deal and move Votto?

No chance.

Of course you wouldn't.

They may be prepared to move Votto because they have Alonso waiting in the wings but if I was them I would start by asking for Lawrie. As soon as thy do that then AA says no because you would be closing the hole at 1B and opening one up at 3B.

I just don't see a Votto trade happening unless a third team gets involved and then it gets too complicated for me.

rapsjaysfan88
09-29-2011, 01:16 PM
^people really think snider, cecil, and lind have value? come on. we barely want them. no ones going to trade an mvp for those scrubs.

Bob_at_york
09-29-2011, 01:22 PM
^people really think snider, cecil, and lind have value? come on. we barely want them. no ones going to trade an mvp for those scrubs.

I definitely still think they have value. I actually have no problem with all three of them being on the team next year.

ah nuts
09-29-2011, 02:12 PM
I definitely still think they have value. I actually have no problem with all three of them being on the team next year.

agreed (though I prefer upgrades)

Before the all star break, Lind was looking to have another great season, as 2009... but then I don't know what happened.

Similar to Snider, I seen him have months hitting great ball, then injuries..etc.

Cecil lost velocity, imo it can easily show up again. Way too early to call this guy useless or such. Still threw a few good games in 2011.

mtf
09-29-2011, 03:07 PM
^people really think snider, cecil, and lind have value? come on. we barely want them. no ones going to trade an mvp for those scrubs.

I don't think your idea of value is shared by most executives in baseball.

You seem to be under the impression that a player is either "good" or "bad", a 1 or a 0. That isn't the way things work. Cecil and Snider are still very young, with some history of major league success in their careers. That alone gives them some value. Snider still has high potential as well, whether or not he reaches that potential in the future doesn't change the value that it adds at the moment.

rapsjaysfan88
09-29-2011, 03:25 PM
snider had potential 3 years ago. now he's a strikeout machine that can't stay healthy for more then 2 months. sad 2 say it but theres enough of those bums in the league, gms aren't exactly desperate to trade for type of guys.

NewYorkStandUp
09-29-2011, 04:49 PM
Yunel Escobar + Cecil + Jiminez can easily get us Votto.
But i wouldnt like that trade. o-o

wagnall
09-29-2011, 04:59 PM
I don't see Lawrie in any deal. I think it takes the following, and don't jump on me too hard just an idea.

Morrow
Rasmus [ to replace Alonzo ]
Escobar [ Renteria is 36 and Cozart at 26 has some def. problems may see this as an
up grade with club friendly contract]
JPA [ Hernadez is 36 and Mesoraco is only 23, but they might like a guy who's played
a full year and has power and still under control and only 25.
Drabek [ May look at him as poss. future starter.]

Its a lot but if we go it alone, will be pricey. This is why I think more than 2 teams will be involved in this trade and maybe other players come our way.

Twitchy
09-29-2011, 05:03 PM
You guys do realize Cincinnati has one of the best catching prospects in the majors ready to step in for a full time spot, right?

wagnall
09-29-2011, 05:48 PM
You guys do realize Cincinnati has one of the best catching prospects in the majors ready to step in for a full time spot, right?

If thats the case then replace JPA with a prospect they may like such as Molina or Marsnick or both.

Morrow
Escobar
Rasmus
Drabek/Molina/Marsnick or all 3.

Just a thought.

mtf
09-30-2011, 05:32 AM
snider had potential 3 years ago. now he's a strikeout machine that can't stay healthy for more then 2 months. sad 2 say it but theres enough of those bums in the league, gms aren't exactly desperate to trade for type of guys.

You missed the point, completely...again.

Snider is not someone who's career is now over. It is at that point that they no longer have value. His value is not as high as it once was or what it could have been, but it isn't reduced to nothing as you, the disgruntled fan, would lead others to believe.

jamjar
09-30-2011, 07:49 AM
TOR receives:

Joey Votto


CIN receives:

Adam Lind
Adam Loewen
Edwin Encarnacion
Jesse Litsch


i wouldn't mind parting with a package similar to that.

Twitchy
09-30-2011, 09:41 AM
And I'm sure Cincinnati would be thrilled to have the worst 1B in the majors, a 4th OF, a platoon 1B and a middle reliever or back end starter for their superstar.



If thats the case then replace JPA with a prospect they may like such as Molina or Marsnick or both.

Morrow
Escobar
Rasmus
Drabek/Molina/Marsnick or all 3.

Just a thought.

I'd rather not get rid of one of the teams best hitter, potential superstar CF and theoretically the #2 SP heading into next year AND 1-3 extra prospects for Votto.

dunedinjays
09-30-2011, 09:58 AM
TOR receives:

Joey Votto


CIN receives:

Adam Lind
Adam Loewen
Edwin Encarnacion
Jesse Litsch


i wouldn't mind parting with a package similar to that.

hahahah

craigerlee
09-30-2011, 10:15 AM
And I'm sure Cincinnati would be thrilled to have the worst 1B in the majors, a 4th OF, a platoon 1B and a middle reliever or back end starter for their superstar.


Of course they'd be thrilled, this is the world where moving Brett Lawrie to 1B is a great idea.:p

Krylian
09-30-2011, 10:29 AM
TOR receives:

Joey Votto


CIN receives:

Adam Lind
Adam Loewen
Edwin Encarnacion
Jesse Litsch


i wouldn't mind parting with a package similar to that.

That's one of the most insulting packages I've seen.

ILDD
09-30-2011, 10:32 AM
TOR receives:

Joey Votto


CIN receives:

Adam Lind
Adam Loewen
Edwin Encarnacion
Jesse Litsch


i wouldn't mind parting with a package similar to that.

You realize how bad that is right? Let's turn it around and see how you would react to this trade.

CIN receives:

Jose Bautista


TOR receives:

Yonder Alonso
Dave Sappelt
Miguel Cairo
Jose Arrendondo


Teams just don't trade superstars for spare pieces, they trade them for blue chip propspects or several mlb pieces

jamjar
09-30-2011, 11:10 AM
comparing bautista to votto? heh

in simpler terms i should have just said i do not want joey votto.

dunedinjays
09-30-2011, 11:15 AM
comparing bautista to votto? heh

in simpler terms i should have just said i do not want joey votto.

You should have offered the Reds a bag of garbage. At least you don't have to feed or pay for hotels for it

13Lawrie13
09-30-2011, 11:24 AM
comparing bautista to votto? heh

in simpler terms i should have just said i do not want joey votto.

The comparison is far from outrageous.

wagnall
09-30-2011, 12:04 PM
And I'm sure Cincinnati would be thrilled to have the worst 1B in the majors, a 4th OF, a platoon 1B and a middle reliever or back end starter for their superstar.




I'd rather not get rid of one of the teams best hitter, potential superstar CF and theoretically the #2 SP heading into next year AND 1-3 extra prospects for Votto.


I'm not saying I'd want to do this either, rather just summing out the players and the quality of them that I think would get Votto. But I still believe that we have a chance at him, Ithink 1 or 2 other teams will be part of it which would hopefully cost us less.
I'm not holding out much hope he'll be here plus if he does want to go FA in 2 years we'll be in the same situation trying to sign a 30 yr old who'll want 6 or 7 years. Beeston says thats a no no and we just gave up a bunch of guys that could have been major parts of this team in 2 years.

StayOnBoard
09-30-2011, 12:20 PM
How about
Joey Votto

For
Edwin, Cooper and Luis Perez...

Can't be any worse than some of the trade offers I've seen here - my God guys.... I know AA has us spoiled with the Escobar and Rasmus deals, but you have to think the other 28 GMs aren't complete idiots.

If Votto comes here - there will be 1 blue chip prospect, 2 VERY good prospects and likely a B- guy to round out the deal. They certainly aren't giving him away with these ridiculous offers...

whysodevious
09-30-2011, 12:28 PM
If thats the case then replace JPA with a prospect they may like such as Molina or Marsnick or both.

Morrow
Escobar
Rasmus
Drabek/Molina/Marsnick or all 3.

Just a thought.
Wtf...? :facepalm:


TOR receives:

Joey Votto

CIN receives:

Adam Lind
Adam Loewen
Edwin Encarnacion
Jesse Litsch
Wtf...? :facepalm:

Valleyfella
09-30-2011, 01:08 PM
Votto would be very nice but the Reds aren't going to take our spare parts for him and the Jays have more pressing needs than 1B. I'd offer Lind, an A prospect and a B prospect but nothing more.

broncosfan_101
09-30-2011, 01:56 PM
Brett Cecil
Anthony Gose
Adeiny Hechavarria
Sanchez/Syndergaard/Nicolino

MikeG
09-30-2011, 02:00 PM
How about
Joey Votto

For
Edwin, Cooper and Luis Perez...

Can't be any worse than some of the trade offers I've seen here - my God guys.... I know AA has us spoiled with the Escobar and Rasmus deals, but you have to think the other 28 GMs aren't complete idiots.

If Votto comes here - there will be 1 blue chip prospect, 2 VERY good prospects and likely a B- guy to round out the deal. They certainly aren't giving him away with these ridiculous offers...

Lol you guys are crazy. To get Votto you would have to add Gose to that and maybe even something more

wagnall
09-30-2011, 02:52 PM
I don't know what it will take to get Votto, if in fact they want to trade him this year. We all can come up with a list of names it will take, some too much, some too little, but it will all come down to does AA want Votto here and if so does he sign him to extension right away, or does Votto want to test FA like Fielder, Pujos, and Reyes. If so we then get into a bidding war for him and are we going to give him a 6 year deal worth north of 130m. If Beeston is against anything over 5 years, what then?
Just saying he could walk in 2 years.

ILDD
09-30-2011, 03:28 PM
comparing bautista to votto? heh

in simpler terms i should have just said i do not want joey votto.

They're not far off tbh, Bautista is ahead slightly but not by far. I was trying to make a point that if another team came along offering spare parts, has-beens and never-will-be's for our star player we'd rightly laugh and call them idiots.

We do the same to them as a genuine trade idea without looking at their needs and wants, just trying to throw them **** we don't want any more.

Try and be a little realisitc people.

13Lawrie13
09-30-2011, 05:45 PM
Lol you guys are crazy. To get Votto you would have to add Gose to that and maybe even something more

:facepalm:

Toxeryll
09-30-2011, 06:07 PM
Votto for Farrell

leafswin2011
09-30-2011, 06:23 PM
how about snider,lind,EE,drabek,hech and 1 more prospect for votto.i think thats getting closer

broncosfan_101
09-30-2011, 06:41 PM
how about snider,lind,EE,drabek,hech and 1 more prospect for votto.i think thats getting closer

You're giving 3 below-average defensive players to a team that employs a DH for less than 10% of their games. Also, 3 players at 2 positions that could be used for Yonder Alonso, the guy they'd be making room for by trading Votto.

13Lawrie13
09-30-2011, 07:21 PM
You're giving 3 below-average defensive players to a team that employs a DH for less than 10% of their games. Also, 3 players at 2 positions that could be used for Yonder Alonso, the guy they'd be making room for by trading Votto.

Three?

MikeG
10-01-2011, 12:03 AM
:facepalm:

ok mr.:facepalm: obviously your a mlb GM, so enlighten us with your magical trade offer.
Personally, from a normal non-douche stand point i believe the Reds would consider a trade if we offered them Gose, Cooper, EE, Cecil, and Perez.

MikeG
10-01-2011, 12:18 AM
^ Scratch that I have been reading the other forums and notice you try to start things with other people in this forum, and feel as if your always right so lets not even get started..

tbird30
10-01-2011, 12:37 AM
That offer doesnt make any sense considering the Reds would be giving up Votto to open up 1b for Alonso, so scratch cooper and EE, also im sure the reds would want better pitching options than cecil and perez

broncosfan_101
10-01-2011, 01:08 AM
Three?

Snider's best case scenario is to become an average defensive LF. He should hit enough to make the trade-off worthwhile, but that still pushes Alonso to 1B, leaving no room for Lind or E5.

13Lawrie13
10-01-2011, 09:05 AM
Snider's best case scenario is to become an average defensive LF. He should hit enough to make the trade-off worthwhile, but that still pushes Alonso to 1B, leaving no room for Lind or E5.

Snider is already an above-average defender in left-field...

13Lawrie13
10-01-2011, 09:16 AM
ok mr.:facepalm: obviously your a mlb GM, so enlighten us with your magical trade offer.
Personally, from a normal non-douche stand point i believe the Reds would consider a trade if we offered them Gose, Cooper, EE, Cecil, and Perez.

He was being sarcastic.

Read the response you first quoted. If you can't figure out that this is sarcasm, then I don't know what to tell you;
How about
Joey Votto

For
Edwin, Cooper and Luis Perez...

Can't be any worse than some of the trade offers I've seen here - my God guys

Read the response before writing;
Lol you guys are crazy.

I also find this response quite amusing;
^ Scratch that I have been reading the other forums and notice you try to start things with other people in this forum, and feel as if your always right so lets not even get started..

Ironic, isn't it?

Twitchy
10-01-2011, 09:20 AM
Snider's best case scenario is to become an average defensive LF. He should hit enough to make the trade-off worthwhile, but that still pushes Alonso to 1B, leaving no room for Lind or E5.

Snider's already an average to above average defensive LF.

MikeG
10-01-2011, 10:40 AM
That offer doesnt make any sense considering the Reds would be giving up Votto to open up 1b for Alonso, so scratch cooper and EE, also im sure the reds would want better pitching options than cecil and perez

I think they are talking about it from the talent we'd give up stand point. Thats how i was saying it. What NL team in the world would want EE? I can field better than that guy. He's suited for an AL team.

MikeG
10-01-2011, 10:42 AM
He was being sarcastic.

Read the response you first quoted. If you can't figure out that this is sarcasm, then I don't know what to tell you;

Read the response before writing;

I also find this response quite amusing;

Ironic, isn't it?

Even if it was sarcastic adding Gose and a guy like Cecil wouldn't make that appealing to them? That a lot of talent. Your getting a solid reliever, a good pitcher, a decent ceiling first basemen, a potentially franchise CF and to be honest I dont get the EE thing it would have to be someone else, a good player though

MikeG
10-01-2011, 10:45 AM
Why all this talk about trading for Votto anyway, I haven't read the early pages? I don't know if this has been said but theres a 0% chance of it happening imo

fatkev78
10-01-2011, 11:13 AM
I would much rather the Jays sign Fielder than trade the farm for Votto.

MikeG
10-01-2011, 11:36 AM
I would much rather the Jays sign Fielder than trade the farm for Votto.

This. But realistically, were gunna have to keep Lind and EE and be happy with it.

wamco
10-01-2011, 11:41 AM
I would much rather the Jays sign Fielder than trade the farm for Votto.

obviously

broncosfan_101
10-01-2011, 11:59 AM
Snider's already an average to above average defensive LF.

Hehehe coming from the guy who said Jose Bautista didn't have enough consistent playing time to concretely say that he was decent at either 3B or RF...now you're gonna tell me that Snider's 147 starts in LF is good enough to call him average to above-average? Duuuuude...

wagnall
10-01-2011, 01:37 PM
I would much rather the Jays sign Fielder than trade the farm for Votto.

Would just make it easier and we get to use our prospects to get a 2nd baseman and PITCHING. Fielder just looks scarier to me. Reminds me of 1 of the Vachon brothers. Pitchers look at him coming up next, Bauts will get his pitches. Not that Votto wouldn't be as effective, the hoops to get him and he could go FA in 2 years then to keep him we'll have to give him Fielder money and term at 30, not 27 like Fielder.
You don't need to keep both Lind and EE. Keep Lind as DH/1st. and send EE to some one who can handle a guy who produces 2 out of 6 months EVERY ****in year.

13Lawrie13
10-01-2011, 02:45 PM
Hehehe coming from the guy who said Jose Bautista didn't have enough consistent playing time to concretely say that he was decent at either 3B or RF...now you're gonna tell me that Snider's 147 starts in LF is good enough to call him average to above-average? Duuuuude...

Except Bautista isn't, and never was, above average defensively.

Twitchy
10-01-2011, 04:32 PM
Hehehe coming from the guy who said Jose Bautista didn't have enough consistent playing time to concretely say that he was decent at either 3B or RF...now you're gonna tell me that Snider's 147 starts in LF is good enough to call him average to above-average? Duuuuude...


Snider has played around 70% of his innings at one position (LF). Of which the sample size is around 1 full year. Iíd obviously like to see more innings (2-3 at least), but thereís more evidence to suggest he is at least average than to suggest he isnít. Heís significantly above average in LF, and below in RF and CF. Iíd like to see another year to confirm it, but as a LF, Iíd argue heís at worst league average.

Was I wrong when I said the sample size at 3B wasnít large enough for Bautista? He posted a positive UZR there this year. Yes, he posted a negative one in RF, but thatís why I said we need more evidence to be sure.

I donít know why you brought this up. Either way it makes you look bad. Either you agree that we should give Snider more time (in which case I was right last year to say wait on Bautista), or you agree with the earlier assessment of Bautista based on what we knew (meaning youíre wrong about Snider now).

broncosfan_101
10-02-2011, 04:26 PM
Snider has played around 70% of his innings at one position (LF). Of which the sample size is around 1 full year. Iíd obviously like to see more innings (2-3 at least), but thereís more evidence to suggest he is at least average than to suggest he isnít. Heís significantly above average in LF, and below in RF and CF. Iíd like to see another year to confirm it, but as a LF, Iíd argue heís at worst league average.

Was I wrong when I said the sample size at 3B wasnít large enough for Bautista? He posted a positive UZR there this year. Yes, he posted a negative one in RF, but thatís why I said we need more evidence to be sure.

I donít know why you brought this up. Either way it makes you look bad. Either you agree that we should give Snider more time (in which case I was right last year to say wait on Bautista), or you agree with the earlier assessment of Bautista based on what we knew (meaning youíre wrong about Snider now).

Bautista played 300+ more innings in RF than Snider has in LF. Bautista was a +9 DRS, Snider a +8. Bautista was a 0 UZR, Snider 5.7. You're gonna definitively tell me that Snider's a better defender than Bautista based on this? Snider's a big body (and based on his love for eating, this won't change), his defensive skills will in no way get better than they are right now. This is why his ceiling is an average defender. People here laughed at me when I said after the 2009 season that Matt Kemp will have to get moved from CF because he's a bigger body. And that turned out how?

I'm a Snider believer, I hope he sticks around and we give him his long awaited shot in LF. But he'll be an average defender there, and my reasons go beyond the numbers. I'm predicting based on his body.

It appears I was wrong when I said Bautista would be at least an average RF over the course of a season, as his -1 DRS and -8.6 UZR seem to say he was solidly below average. But up until last season, the numbers showed that it was reasonable to expect average. They weren't a ton behind Snider's at all, whom you call 'league average at worst'.

craigerlee
10-03-2011, 10:34 PM
Bautista played 300+ more innings in RF than Snider has in LF. Bautista was a +9 DRS, Snider a +8. Bautista was a 0 UZR, Snider 5.7. You're gonna definitively tell me that Snider's a better defender than Bautista based on this? Snider's a big body (and based on his love for eating, this won't change), his defensive skills will in no way get better than they are right now. This is why his ceiling is an average defender. People here laughed at me when I said after the 2009 season that Matt Kemp will have to get moved from CF because he's a bigger body. And that turned out how?

I'm a Snider believer, I hope he sticks around and we give him his long awaited shot in LF. But he'll be an average defender there, and my reasons go beyond the numbers. I'm predicting based on his body.

It appears I was wrong when I said Bautista would be at least an average RF over the course of a season, as his -1 DRS and -8.6 UZR seem to say he was solidly below average. But up until last season, the numbers showed that it was reasonable to expect average. They weren't a ton behind Snider's at all, whom you call 'league average at worst'.

There's a lot of bad defenders in LF, its rare when you get the Gardners and Crawfords there cause most teams are looking for offensive. I Wouldn't be surprised if he's above average in LF when you have tons of guys like Braun, Morrison, Alonzo, Delmon Young, Willingham, and oh ya don't forget Eric Thames. Snider was a linebacker and RB in high school, he still looks to have that build, and those guys are pretty athletic. I'm gonna say he's a league average LF at worst.

StayOnBoard
10-04-2011, 11:29 AM
Lol you guys are crazy. To get Votto you would have to add Gose to that and maybe even something more

It helps when you read the full post.

GNick
10-21-2011, 01:14 PM
Some recent FAN590 interview notes:
- Cecil Fielder was on and said Prince is very open to playing in Toronto. Said Prince use to live in Toronto and they liked it here.
- Jose Bautista was on and said David Ortiz be a good addition to Jays.

StayOnBoard
10-21-2011, 03:33 PM
Some recent FAN590 interview notes:
- Cecil Fielder was on and said Prince is very open to playing in Toronto. Said Prince use to live in Toronto and they liked it here.
- Jose Bautista was on and said David Ortiz be a good addition to Jays.

I'd cream my pants to have both of them in Toronto next season.

Imagine... Prince at 1st with Papi Dh'ing behind Bautista :drool:

Im not getting my hopes up - I doubt we snag even one of these guys... but man that'd be a hell of a lineup.

jaysnraptors44
10-21-2011, 07:37 PM
ye but its interesting how he mentions the cubs first out of all the team he thinks prince would sign with

jaysnraptors44
10-21-2011, 07:43 PM
cecil never said they liked it here lol ^ stop lying

Krylian
10-21-2011, 09:47 PM
Cecil also said that he used to take Prince to Zanzibar. Titties and ***** galore.

wagnall
10-22-2011, 04:14 PM
Some recent FAN590 interview notes:
- Cecil Fielder was on and said Prince is very open to playing in Toronto. Said Prince use to live in Toronto and they liked it here.
- Jose Bautista was on and said David Ortiz be a good addition to Jays.



This sounds like a plan, how ever surprising it would be!

jaysfan4ever
10-22-2011, 06:38 PM
I would much rather the Jays sign Fielder than trade the farm for Votto.

Question. If we don't trade the farm for Votto, who do we trade it for? With all the prospects in our system, we don't have A) positions and B) time (with Bautista as an elite player) for all our prospects to get playing time at the major league level.

I'd rather we trade some of our endless supply of specs for a top-20 player who won't be overpaid in 3 years. That's just my 2 cents. Trade for Votto. Trade for a #1 starter. We have the prospects. With the money we save having Votto over a bad contract in Fielder, we can even "buy" more prospects. What we don't want is paying 20M for a first baseman that's clearly 3rd-best in the division.

Twitchy
10-22-2011, 06:52 PM
Question. If we don't trade the farm for Votto, who do we trade it for? With all the prospects in our system, we don't have A) positions and B) time (with Bautista as an elite player) for all our prospects to get playing time at the major league level.

I'd rather we trade some of our endless supply of specs for a top-20 player who won't be overpaid in 3 years. That's just my 2 cents. Trade for Votto. Trade for a #1 starter. We have the prospects. With the money we save having Votto over a bad contract in Fielder, we can even "buy" more prospects. What we don't want is paying 20M for a first baseman that's clearly 3rd-best in the division.

Then clearly we shouldn't trade for Votto, because in about 3 years time he's going to be making a ridiculous amount of money. And in all honesty, the only 1B who'd be better than Fielder in the East is Gonzalez.

I do agree that the Jays shouldn't waste Bautista in his prime. You've got a cheap version of Albert Pujols, you better throw a good team around him.

Billyen
10-22-2011, 10:32 PM
Question. If we don't trade the farm for Votto, who do we trade it for? With all the prospects in our system, we don't have A) positions and B) time (with Bautista as an elite player) for all our prospects to get playing time at the major league level.



Exactly. Well said.

Can everyone please stop with the "trade the farm for Votto" talk. If we do make a move it will be for 2-3 prospects and a some ML players, if that.

wagnall
10-22-2011, 10:39 PM
I keep saying that Votto is my 1st choice , but he wants to test FA in 2 years where he will want what Fielder gets, at least 7 years, and lots of $$$$$$. We lose him plus all the prospects we sent for him. Fielder adds instant spark and protection for Bauts, put Lawrie behind him followed by Big Papi, then you have a scary hitting line up. Pitching and BP need help, but that is separate from the hitting line up.

Toxeryll
10-22-2011, 10:53 PM
watching today's slugfest between texas and st louis, i feel like we at least need two more legit bats. Prince will do, i dont like Papi though, hes old.

wagnall
10-22-2011, 11:06 PM
Papi has 2 good years in him IMHO and with Esc, Ras, Bauts., Prince, Lawrie and Papi , pretty good line up. If not Papi then hope Snider finds it, or go after a big booper OF'er and put the LF position to rest once and for all.

wagnall
10-22-2011, 11:15 PM
watching today's slugfest between texas and st louis, i feel like we at least need two more legit bats. Prince will do, i dont like Papi though, hes old.

Agree, but Berkman is same age as Papi and plays the OF. Papi just needs to hit. But really I'd love Pujos. :)

anotherqtip420
10-23-2011, 02:18 PM
From what i've been reading at mlb.com and mlb trade rumors is that the CWS are looking to shed salary and might part with Carlos Quentin.What would you guys think of picking him up as a DH/OF who splits time with whoever in LF?? Not sure about his contract or recent history,sorry thats my fault because i have no use for the CWS other then when Ozzie was there and i watched the highlights for him exploding. I guess what i'm saying is depending on who they want in return,should we do it???

Spiderdan22
10-23-2011, 04:08 PM
From what i've been reading at mlb.com and mlb trade rumors is that the CWS are looking to shed salary and might part with Carlos Quentin.What would you guys think of picking him up as a DH/OF who splits time with whoever in LF?? Not sure about his contract or recent history,sorry thats my fault because i have no use for the CWS other then when Ozzie was there and i watched the highlights for him exploding. I guess what i'm saying is depending on who they want in return,should we do it???

Isn't Quentin an often injured head-case?

Bob_at_york
10-24-2011, 09:28 AM
Isn't Quentin an often injured head-case?

I am not sure about the head-case part but he has been injured a lot lately.

The_Jet11
10-24-2011, 03:40 PM
he might be worth a look, depending on his health, but we're pretty crowded in the OF already. If Snider or Thames are included in a trade, then maybe Quentin is someone you target to see some at-bats vs. LHPs

StayOnBoard
10-24-2011, 03:52 PM
I always liked Quentin - great hitter but seems like he's ALWAYS injured.

I don't think he's a guy you can bank on for an every day role... but maybe expand it to include a guy like Gavin Floyd??

I can't see Danks ever being welcomed in Toronto after the whole Bautista thing last year... but I'd take Floyd without thinking twice about it.

bartron_44
10-24-2011, 04:17 PM
he might be worth a look, depending on his health, but we're pretty crowded in the OF already. If Snider or Thames are included in a trade, then maybe Quentin is someone you target to see some at-bats vs. LHPs

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on this..

We don't need Floyd either. He has been a sub .500 pitcher the last 3 years. We will only go after premium starting pitching, and I wouldn't say he makes the cut..

wamco
10-25-2011, 07:41 AM
ya, not sure about head case either. Very talented streaky, oft-injured player though.

I'd do a trade for him and Beckham and hope for the upside to come around.

fatkev78
10-28-2011, 06:04 PM
Beeston: http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20111028_163927_9960

NewYorkStandUp
10-28-2011, 08:38 PM
Thanks^

NewYorkStandUp
10-28-2011, 09:09 PM
Actually i have a better one:

AA giving his thoughts on free agency.

http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20111028_195855_10052

NewYorkStandUp
10-28-2011, 09:09 PM
^From today!

Eagles4Lyfe
10-28-2011, 09:11 PM
Thanks dude

FrenchyCanadian
10-29-2011, 02:44 AM
Actually i have a better one:

AA giving his thoughts on free agency.

http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20111028_195855_10052

I always thought the Napoli was a financial move. He made a lot more than Francisco and we got cash back on that trade.

fatkev78
11-22-2011, 09:27 PM
From just before the new CBA was released: http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20111122_114613_3560

JermanJaysFan
11-22-2011, 09:42 PM
From just before the new CBA was released: http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20111122_114613_3560
Wish it came from afterwards :p

FrenchyCanadian
11-23-2011, 02:53 PM
From just before the new CBA was released: http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20111122_114613_3560

I think that guy can talk all day and say absolutely nothing

FrenchyCanadian
11-29-2011, 02:03 AM
Farrell today said on there Molina they are looking at as closer of the future. given his mental toughness and good control of fastball and his outstanding split finger as out pitch

StayOnBoard
11-29-2011, 09:12 AM
Farrell today said on there Molina they are looking at as closer of the future. given his mental toughness and good control of fastball and his outstanding split finger as out pitch

I heard that too.... I have no problems with giving it to a rookie - but please for the love of God and all that is holy in this world get us a starter and a REAL first baseman. Please AA!! :pray:

FrenchyCanadian
11-30-2011, 08:11 AM
I heard that too.... I have no problems with giving it to a rookie - but please for the love of God and all that is holy in this world get us a starter and a REAL first baseman. Please AA!! :pray:

I think that discussion was in case they can't acquire a closer. Given the contract demands of free agents and trade value teams are asking for arms it could very well come to light

T.O. Fan
11-30-2011, 08:30 AM
Closer of the future means later on doesn't it, or did he mention this season?

FrenchyCanadian
11-30-2011, 08:37 AM
Closer of the future means later on doesn't it, or did he mention this season?

Sometime in 2012 he should be here. All according to how camp goes I would guess. Personally, I expect Molina to be a callup sometime mid-season. Farrell did mention closest scenario they could get him acclimated to closing was closing in Triple A. He'll probably start 2012 there

Toxeryll
12-01-2011, 03:01 PM
AA on Jeff Blair today: link (http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20111201_120751_12684)

bartron_44
12-01-2011, 04:32 PM
I don't understand why they would convert Molina back into a closer after the year he just put up at his age as a first year starting pitcher. I realize we need a closer, but he straight up dominated batters as a starter this year. We should be looking at him to fill out a rotation spot in 2013, not a bullpen role.

If he struggles some next year then maybe...... but he needs to be used as a starter as long as he is dominating hitters the way he did last season.

FrenchyCanadian
12-01-2011, 05:39 PM
I don't understand why they would convert Molina back into a closer after the year he just put up at his age as a first year starting pitcher. I realize we need a closer, but he straight up dominated batters as a starter this year. We should be looking at him to fill out a rotation spot in 2013, not a bullpen role.

If he struggles some next year then maybe...... but he needs to be used as a starter as long as he is dominating hitters the way he did last season.

he's only one in organization with closer mentality and closer stuff

craigerlee
12-01-2011, 05:52 PM
I don't understand why they would convert Molina back into a closer after the year he just put up at his age as a first year starting pitcher. I realize we need a closer, but he straight up dominated batters as a starter this year. We should be looking at him to fill out a rotation spot in 2013, not a bullpen role.

If he struggles some next year then maybe...... but he needs to be used as a starter as long as he is dominating hitters the way he did last season.
I completely agree with you here, the only way I wanna see Molina relieving next year is if its a late year call up and we need bullpen depth not rotation depth. Kinda like what the Rays did with Price and Matt Moore in the past. Let them pitch relief at the end of the year to help the big league club and bring them into the rotation the following year. I've seen so many posts about how we should do what the Rangers did with Feliz. Is it just me or does anyone else kinda think the Rangers screwed up with Feliz by making him a reliever cause the verdict is still out about whether he'll be a successful starter or not.


he's only one in organization with closer mentality and closer stuff

How do we know he has closer mentality when he's never been a closer for any significant amount of time? Last time I checked John Farrell and Sal Fasano weren't psychologists and last time I checked John Farrell has only spent one spring training with Molina, so how he'd know whether he has closer mentality or not is beyond me.

bomber0104
12-01-2011, 06:05 PM
yeah stupid to turn him to a reliever now... let him dominate the minors and even if you dont like him as a starter, put him in a package because he has tonnes of value

its pretty similar to the League vs. Morrow debate

riderfan60
12-01-2011, 07:56 PM
I completely agree with you here, the only way I wanna see Molina relieving next year is if its a late year call up and we need bullpen depth not rotation depth. Kinda like what the Rays did with Price and Matt Moore in the past. Let them pitch relief at the end of the year to help the big league club and bring them into the rotation the following year. I've seen so many posts about how we should do what the Rangers did with Feliz. Is it just me or does anyone else kinda think the Rangers screwed up with Feliz by making him a reliever cause the verdict is still out about whether he'll be a successful starter or not.





How do we know he has closer mentality when he's never been a closer for any significant amount of time? Last time I checked John Farrell and Sal Fasano weren't psychologists and last time I checked John Farrell has only spent one spring training with Molina, so how he'd know whether he has closer mentality or not is beyond me.

Could be that Sal and Pete Walker told Farrell that he has closer make-up.

lmallia
12-02-2011, 01:38 AM
http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20111201_120751_12684

AA on Jeff Blair today..

bartron_44
12-02-2011, 09:48 AM
Could be that Sal and Pete Walker told Farrell that he has closer make-up.

Thinking about this again...I know it is possibly a bit of a waste of talent in the long run, BUT, If he is the only current in house option, the best case scenario is we get the next Jonathan Papelbon :). If that happens I don't really think we are wasting too much.

Papelbon was a good starter when he came through the minors, but because of an overloaded rotation in Boston, they turned him into a shut down closer.
Molina is still young, and he had a better year then any Papelbon had in his minor league experience 9not by much, but better imo). If he can really sit between 92-94mph as a starter; coming in for 1 inning I think he could pitch in the mid 90's with great control, and a great split finger to finish people. That is definitely solid closer type stuff.

Best part is, he wouldn't make any serious money for another 5-7 years :).
With all the talent in our minor league system, the Jays can afford to move him and take the slight loss in value. He can't pitch a full major league season THIS year, so if we are going all-in to try and make the playoffs in 2012, I guess I could handle this move. However, if they just make him a reliever in the minors somewhere, I will be pissed.

I don't agree with it if we don't sign a couple bats or a bat and a starter, and go for it. AA talked about KJ yesterday on the Blair show when he talked about current bluejays, so I don't think we can rule out the possibility of resigning him to play second base (sine he is clearly the best option other then Jose Reyes..who we aren't getting). We need a protection type bat for Bautista though to really change the dynamic of this lineup. If AA spends the money on Prince and KJ, I am down with trying out the young controllable Molina for the first half of the year as a closer. If he flops, make a trade or 2 at the deadline to beef up the bullpen for the playoff push, and send him back to stretch back out into a starter.

T.O. Fan
12-02-2011, 10:52 AM
Could also do similar thing the Rangers did with Feliz who came up as a starter, converted to closer and is now going back to being a starter. All depends on the need I guess.

fatkev78
12-06-2011, 06:07 PM
AA: http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20111206_153453_3220

fatkev78
12-06-2011, 06:57 PM
AA: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=20022505&partnerId=aw-5141466700145157788-1046