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Mile High Champ
07-09-2011, 10:09 PM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last three years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 2 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

2011 Off Season SF Rankings

1) Lebron James
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)





2010 Off Season SF Rankings
1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Gerald Wallace
7) Andre Iguodala
8) Rudy Gay
9) Luol Deng
10) Ron Artest

2009 Off Season SF Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Carmelo Anthony
3) Kevin Durant
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Andre Iguodala
7) Caron Butler
8) Hedo Turkoglu
9) Ron Artest
10) Stephen Jackson

2008 Off-Season SF rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Paul Pierce
3) Carmelo Anthony
4) Caron Butler
5) Ron Artest
6) Shawn Marion
7) Josh Smith
8) Richard Jefferson
9) Lamar Odom
10) Tayshaun Prince

Mile High Champ
07-09-2011, 10:12 PM
Poll is now up gents!

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-09-2011, 10:12 PM
Kevin Durant. Melo is overrated IMO.

SteBO
07-09-2011, 10:14 PM
Carmelo Anthony. He's a versatile scorer, while Durant is more one-dimensional.

LTBaByyy
07-09-2011, 10:16 PM
Too be honest, I think it is Melo. He can post up, slash, shoot, clutch, everything offensively and they both suck on defense (Melo and Durant) so I will go with Melo

Durant is just a shooter.

Bruno
07-09-2011, 10:17 PM
Durant. Far more efficient a scorer than Melo. Gets to the line better than anyone, and on a brilliant %.

Melo perhaps has the larger arsenal as a scorer, but does that matter when the other guy scores just as many points, and on a higher efficiency?

Baller1
07-09-2011, 10:17 PM
Melo shouldn't even get a vote.

Hustlenomics
07-09-2011, 10:19 PM
Melo

Bruno
07-09-2011, 10:22 PM
Melo shouldn't even get a vote.

You know he will. He got votes when LeBron was still an option. He'll got votes, but Durant will win the poll.

naps
07-09-2011, 10:29 PM
It's Kevin Durant even though Melo is not far off. They both suck defensively but both are spectacular on offensive. I am not a Knicks fan but I love watching Melo at the top of his game.

$KnicksAndKobe$
07-09-2011, 10:35 PM
2.Durant
3. Melo

mdm692
07-09-2011, 10:45 PM
Isnt gay a sg and josh smith a pf. . .by the way hill should be top 10 Very underappreciated. . .

Oh melo his ability to close games overadows his poor defense

Chacarron
07-09-2011, 10:46 PM
Kevin Durant is the more efficient scorer so I went with him.

Jewelz0376
07-09-2011, 10:47 PM
I got Durant right now...Both of their main strengths is scoring...Melo can score in more ways, but Durant is more efficient...

Its pretty close though and if Melo plays the why he did once he got to NY for an entire season next year, and leads the Knicks to a top 3-4 seed he might pass Durant...

LTBaByyy
07-09-2011, 10:48 PM
Who do I want the ball in the hands of on the line? Melo.

LTBaByyy
07-09-2011, 10:49 PM
Melo in a full year with NY will shoot his stock right up to what it used to be!!!

The dude is a baller

Baller1
07-09-2011, 10:51 PM
Who do I want the ball in the hands of on the line? Melo.

Who do you want to win games, to the point where you won't even have the game on the line? Durant.

TheRunKiller
07-09-2011, 10:56 PM
Melo can score in more ways post up better slasher better in clutch...kevin durant is just a shooter he has a hard time creating his own shot Melo is the better player and scorer.

LTBaByyy
07-09-2011, 11:02 PM
Who do you want to win games, to the point where you won't even have the game on the line? Durant.

Westbrook does that for ya guys, Durant has almost became a #2 option for OKC

The only time I see Durant getting to the hole is on a fastbreak or when left open.

He is a tall Ray Allen (prime) to me, thats still very good though

I have him at #3 SF

tyfreaks brotha
07-09-2011, 11:02 PM
Durant

JordansBulls
07-09-2011, 11:07 PM
Based off of last year it is Durant.

juno10
07-09-2011, 11:12 PM
Westbrook does that for ya guys, Durant has almost became a #2 option for OKC

The only time I see Durant getting to the hole is on a fastbreak or when left open.

He is a tall Ray Allen (prime) to me, thats still very good though

I have him at #3 SF

tall ray allen.. hmm i don't think he's that good, can you imagine if allen was 6'10 holy game over for the league literally unstoppable.

Knicks21
07-09-2011, 11:13 PM
Melo, stats aside he is the better player. After all, it wouldn't be his best performance last season with all the drama which to be fair he brought on himself. What LTBaByy said is true, Durant is a tall ray allen, as most of his point come of screens. I can understand why people would vote Durant, but to say Melo doesn't deserve a vote is a bit much.

SteBO
07-09-2011, 11:14 PM
I guess it depends on what you deem more important. Offensive versatility or offensive efficiency? Believe it or not, Carmelo became very efficient once he went to NY, and he's always been a versatile scorer. Sorry, but Kevin Durant is just a one dimensional scorer to me, and I'll take the guy who can post, drive, shoot the three, very good mid range game and get to the foul line. Granted 'Melo isn't as efficient on an overall scale as Durant, but his excellent rebounding(off of his own misses no less) almost negates that imo.

MELO7NYK/DENfan
07-09-2011, 11:17 PM
Melo more offensive moves even though durant is a better shooter but not by far and better rebounder, passer, melo is melo is just the better player overall and hes clutch.

Sadds The Gr8
07-09-2011, 11:19 PM
Durantula. Melo = overrated.

Ebbs
07-09-2011, 11:19 PM
Kevin Durant by a bit. Unlike LeBron though this is not a vast difference. We all know KD is more efficient but Melo is the more complete offensive player. I think if Melo buckles down and plays a little more D it could be him.

Slimsim
07-09-2011, 11:22 PM
Gallo

Baller1
07-09-2011, 11:24 PM
You people make no sense... :laugh:

What good is a versatile arsenal if it doesn't work as well? There's absolutely no logic in your guys' argument.

So Durant isn't as dangerous because he's so good at one form of scoring that he doesn't use others? (which is a flawed argument in itself, Melo has one offensive scoring advantage over Durant and that's his post game).

Slimsim
07-09-2011, 11:25 PM
Durantula. Melo = overrated.

I don't care who but can some one explain why Melo is label 1 dimensional and Overrated but Durant is label as the next best thing since MJ

Bruno
07-09-2011, 11:26 PM
I guess it depends on what you deem more important. Offensive versatility or offensive efficiency? Believe it or not, Carmelo became very efficient once he went to NY, and he's always been a versatile scorer. Sorry, but Kevin Durant is just a one dimensional scorer to me, and I'll take the guy who can post, drive, shoot the three, and get to the foul line. Granted 'Melo isn't as efficient on an overall scale as Durant, but his excellent rebounding(off of his own misses no less) almost negates that imo.

He posted a TS% of .547 over 50 games w/ Denver.
He posted a TS% of .575 over 27 games w/ NYK.

So he did improve, as you said. But he posted a TS% of .505 in the playoffs with the Knicks. Big drop off once playoffs started. IMO, the jury is still out on how efficient he can be in NY; I want to see next season to determine how efficient he is over a full year with Amare. As of now, Durant has proven to be the more efficient player.

I don't see how you can give the rebounding edge to Melo; Durant has posted nearly identical rebound numbers over the past two seasons (slight edge to Durant). Their career averages are identical at 6.3 per game.

Durant is also the superior three-point shooter. He shots 36% for his career, Melo shoots 32% for his career. Melo averages 0.8 made threes per game, Durant 1.7; over double. Yes, Melo shot great from three over 27 games with the Knicks (2.0 per game on 42%!); but again- those numbers dropped by nearly 8% once playoffs started; I want a bigger sample size in NY before giving him the benefit of the doubt here. I can't ignore seven years at under 32% just because he lit it up over a 27 game period.

FT shooting? Very close- they get there at about the same rate, but Durant hits on a superior percentage. 88.5% for his career, Melo at 81%- which is still really good- but edge Durant.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duranke01.html

Baller1
07-09-2011, 11:28 PM
I don't care who but can some one explain why Melo is label 1 dimensional and Overrated but Durant is label as the next best thing since MJ

Melo is known for his scoring, which Durant is superior at.

TO Rapz
07-09-2011, 11:28 PM
Durant.

SteBO
07-09-2011, 11:29 PM
You people make no sense... :laugh:

What good is a versatile arsenal if it doesn't work as well? There's absolutely no logic in your guys' argument.

So Durant isn't as dangerous because he's so good at one form of scoring that he doesn't use others? (which is a flawed argument in itself, Melo has one offensive scoring advantage over Durant and that's his post game).
The efficiency aspect isn't that far off, but even if it doesn't work as well, it still makes the guy that much harder to defend. Again, it depends on what you value more. Efficiency or versatility? I tend to value versatility slightly more, only because of how much easier offense comes to you. But don't forget that 'Melo's rebounding, especially on the offensive glass, makes the inefficiency aspect less significant.

Slimsim
07-09-2011, 11:31 PM
Melo is known for his scoring, which Durant is superior at.

Didn't tony Allen Shut Durant down ?

VCaintdead17
07-09-2011, 11:33 PM
Where's Corey Maggette?

Baller1
07-09-2011, 11:34 PM
The efficiency aspect isn't that far off, but even if it doesn't work as well, it still makes the guy that much harder to defend. Again, it depends on what you value more. Efficiency or versatility? I tend to value versatility slightly more, only because of how much easier offense comes to you. But don't forget that 'Melo's rebounding, especially on the offensive glass, makes the inefficiency aspect less significant.

Alright, I'm not trying to sound like an *** here, but that literally makes no sense to me. What good is versatility if it doesn't come with sufficient results (not that they aren't great, but they're not nearly as good as Durant's)?

Honestly, Durant can be as much of a "one-dimensional, non-versatile shooter" as he wants to be if it's going to result in insane efficiency as well as scoring titles.

Baller1
07-09-2011, 11:37 PM
Didn't tony Allen Shut Durant down ?

Durant absolutely **** on Melo's ts% in the playoffs this year, so if Tony Allen shut KD down, then how bad did Melo do?

juno10
07-09-2011, 11:37 PM
The efficiency aspect isn't that far off, but even if it doesn't work as well, it still makes the guy that much harder to defend. Again, it depends on what you value more. Efficiency or versatility? I tend to value versatility slightly more, only because of how much easier offense comes to you. But don't forget that 'Melo's rebounding, especially on the offensive glass, makes the inefficiency aspect less significant.

makes no sense whatsoever honestly.

_KB24_
07-09-2011, 11:42 PM
I chose Melo. Everyone's comparing both their offenses which is fair considering both are known as scorers, but I would have Melo on the defensive end 10 out of 10 times. They have pretty much identical defensive ratings and stats, but Melo played with one of the worst defensive teams in the league bar none.

SteBO
07-09-2011, 11:48 PM
Alright, I'm not trying to sound like an *** here, but that literally makes no sense to me. What good is versatility if it doesn't come with sufficient results (not that they aren't great, but they're not nearly as good as Durant's)?

Honestly, Durant can be as much of a "one-dimensional, non-versatile shooter" as he wants to be if it's going to result in insane efficiency as well as scoring titles.
That's okay, you aren't sounding like a jerk here. We just have a difference of opinion and that's acceptable. It's clear that you value efficiency more, which is very understandable for efficiency in the NBA is very important, but versatility is no less important than efficiency is. If you really think about it, Durant is good at two things......

1) Scoring efficiency (jump shots mostly)
2) Getting to the FT line (shoots a great %)

The results here are phenomenal.....

However, 'Melo can score in any way possible on the offensive end via post ups, mid range jumpers, FT's, 3pt shooting. As Bruno87 posted above in response to me, Durant shoots 36% from 3 over his career, while Melo shoots under 32% for his career. This would in turn back up the fact that Durant is more efficient, but here's the thing......jump shooting is all he's really doing on the offensive end if he isn't getting to the line. 'Melo is more capable of scoring in more ways than one, which makes him that much more difficult to guard. And at the end of the day, we can continue to rehash the same old argument that Melo is inefficient, but his different ways of scoring makes him less predictable on offense as opposed to Durant, hence why I value versatility more. Regarding the FT shooting, 'Melo shoots it at 81% for his career. May not be as good as KD %ge wise, but still pretty damn good.

SteBO
07-09-2011, 11:50 PM
makes no sense whatsoever honestly.
How so? The more ways you are able to score, the less predicatable you become on offense. Basketball 101 bro. Not difficult to understand.

Bruno
07-09-2011, 11:53 PM
IMO, Predictability doesn't matter when you can not defend the predictable :shrug: In the NBA, everyone knows what everyone else is trying to do; it's a matter of execution.

The only edge I give Melo on offense is back to the basket. Durants got him in 3's, the line, and the mid-range.

SteBO
07-09-2011, 11:54 PM
For the record, I'm in no way shape or form bashing Durant here. Him or Carmelo at #2 makes sense. It's close to me. But I went with Carmelo because I like versatility, and that's not to say that efficiency isn't an important aspect of basketball.

Baller1
07-09-2011, 11:54 PM
That's okay, you aren't sounding like a jerk here. We just have a difference of opinion and that's acceptable. It's clear that you value efficiency more, which is very understandable for efficiency in the NBA is very important, but versatility is no less important than efficiency is. If you really think about it, Durant is good at two things......

1) Scoring efficiency (jump shots mostly)
2) Getting to the FT line (shoots a great %)

The results here are phenomenal.....

However, 'Melo can score in any way possible on the offensive end via post ups, mid range jumpers, FT's, 3pt shooting. As Bruno87 posted above in response to me, Durant shoots 36% from 3 over his career, while Melo shoots under 32% for his career. This would in turn back up the fact that Durant is more efficient, but here's the thing......jump shooting is all he's really doing on the offensive end if he isn't getting to the line. 'Melo is more capable of scoring in more ways than one, which makes him that much more difficult to guard. And at the end of the day, we can continue to rehash the same old argument that Melo is inefficient, but his different ways of scoring makes him less predictable on offense as opposed to Durant, hence why I value versatility more. Regarding the FT shooting, 'Melo shoots it at 81% for his career. May not be as good as KD %ge wise, but still pretty damn good.

Okay, fair enough, but if Durant is more predictable then shouldn't defenses be able to stop him more effectively? That's what I can't logically comprehend.

Durant's puts the ball in the basket more than Melo. Simple as that. Why would you not want the player that puts the ball in the basket more often? Makes no sense.

Baller1
07-09-2011, 11:56 PM
IMO, Predictability doesn't matter when you can not defend the predictable :shrug: In the NBA, everyone knows what everyone else is trying to do; it's a matter of execution.

The only edge I give Melo on offense is back to the basket. Durants got him in 3's, the line, and the mid-range.

This sums up what I've been trying to say perfectly.

You can be as predictable as you want if you're executing the way Durant does.

SteBO
07-09-2011, 11:58 PM
IMO, Predictability doesn't matter when you can not defend the predictable :shrug: In the NBA, everyone knows what everyone else is trying to do; it's a matter of execution.

The only edge I give Melo on offense is back to the basket. Durants got him in 3's, the line, and the mid-range.
That's fair I guess. I just think 'Melo being more of a versatile scorer gives him a slight edge over KD, despite the difference in efficiency :shrug: I'm cool with Durant at #2 though. I don't wanna get baller too riled up :D But you do have a great point, if you can't defend the predictable who really cares. I guess I shouldn't hold it over KD's head.

ChiSox219
07-10-2011, 12:00 AM
Durant is better than Melo on the defensive end, I don't understand why people are saying otherwise.

MagicBucsSox
07-10-2011, 12:06 AM
Too be honest, I think it is Melo. He can post up, slash, shoot, clutch, everything offensively and they both suck on defense (Melo and Durant) so I will go with Melo

Durant is just a shooter.

This

Bruno
07-10-2011, 12:07 AM
That's fair I guess. I just think 'Melo being more of a versatile scorer gives him a slight edge over KD, despite the difference in efficiency :shrug: I'm cool with Durant at #2 though. I don't wanna get baller too riled up :D But you do have a great point, if you can't defend the predictable who really cares. I guess I shouldn't hold it over KD's head.

I wouldn't say that Melo doesn't have a better overall offensive arsenal (because of his back to the basket game).

Honestly I think the best argument in favor of Melo here is on the defensive side. All the offensive numbers are with KD, it's just an uphill battle to argue Melo over KD on offense. I feel like Melo voters should be emphasizing his defense in this comparison. Not to say he's a fantastic defender or anything, but better than KD.

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 12:09 AM
Durant. They both play the same roll. Score. One does it more efficient.

Baller1
07-10-2011, 12:18 AM
That's fair I guess. I just think 'Melo being more of a versatile scorer gives him a slight edge over KD, despite the difference in efficiency :shrug: I'm cool with Durant at #2 though. I don't wanna get baller too riled up :D But you do have a great point, if you can't defend the predictable who really cares. I guess I shouldn't hold it over KD's head.

;)

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-10-2011, 12:27 AM
Durant. They both play the same roll. Score. One does it more efficient.

This.

Kashmir13579
07-10-2011, 12:38 AM
I wouldn't say that Melo doesn't have a better overall offensive arsenal (because of his back to the basket game).

Honestly I think the best argument in favor of Melo here is on the defensive side. All the offensive numbers are with KD, it's just an uphill battle to argue Melo over KD on offense. I feel like Melo voters should be emphasizing his defense in this comparison. Not to say he's a fantastic defender or anything, but better than KD.

Offensive rebounds!!

Plus, at the rate Carmelo was shooting the 3 pointer under D'antoni, and given the fact that Carmelo shot a higher % from downtown on the season, Its not hard to see 'Melo's TS%/eFG% skyrocket next year. Durant shot well over 100 more 3s than 'Melo this year, and thats gonna help out his shooting numbers even though he shot them at a lower clip.

'Melo's numbers on the Knicks are just as easy on the eyes as Durant's.

PrettyBoyJ
07-10-2011, 12:38 AM
there efficiency numbers are almost similar Durant has a slight edge.. It not like he's ahead of him by a land slide.. I voted Melo cuz he's a knick lol but Durant is right there with him and will pass him

Kashmir13579
07-10-2011, 12:39 AM
I'm going with my boy 'Melo. Durant will win it, and maybe he should, but i don't think the gap is as wide as some people make it out to be.

Crackadalic
07-10-2011, 12:46 AM
Melo rebounds at a high offensive rebounding rate then durant. Yea Durant is the better efficient shooter but melo is the more offensive scorer. Over the years I've seen Melo score in a variety of ways. I only seen Durant score well on Jumpshots and FT's.

I pick Melo but i don't mind durant picking number 2

pedsdmd
07-10-2011, 12:46 AM
Melo cause the tie breaker goes to the wife

LTBaByyy
07-10-2011, 12:47 AM
Durant, better shooter.

Melo, better scorer(post game, slasher, off the dribble, mid range), passer, rebounder, clutch moments.



Durant gets his points off screens and jumpers. And the dunks he gets are off fastbreaks

Melo is the better player

LTBaByyy
07-10-2011, 12:50 AM
Dirk and Melo are unguardable!!!!!!!!

Tony Allen and Marion locked up Durant, he didnt even want the ball lol

Kashmir13579
07-10-2011, 12:52 AM
He posted a TS% of .547 over 50 games w/ Denver.
He posted a TS% of .575 over 27 games w/ NYK.

So he did improve, as you said. But he posted a TS% of .505 in the playoffs with the Knicks. Big drop off once playoffs started. IMO, the jury is still out on how efficient he can be in NY; I want to see next season to determine how efficient he is over a full year with Amare. As of now, Durant has proven to be the more efficient player.

How can you hold that against him when he was literally the only offensive threat the Knicks had, going up against one of the best defensive teams in the league? 'Melo was literally being double and triple teamed; if he wanted to pass out of it, the ball was going to Anthony Carter, Roger Mason, and Jared Jeffries... You aren't gonna hold his 4 playoff games against him under those circumstances. Hell - in game 2 'Melo almost won the damn game by himself.


I don't see how you can give the rebounding edge to Melo; Durant has posted nearly identical rebound numbers over the past two seasons (slight edge to Durant). Their career averages are identical at 6.3 per game.

Offensive rebounds are worth extra possessions.

Durant is also the superior three-point shooter. He shots 36% for his career, Melo shoots 32% for his career. Melo averages 0.8 made threes per game, Durant 1.7; over double. Yes, Melo shot great from three over 27 games with the Knicks (2.0 per game on 42%!); but again- those numbers dropped by nearly 8% once playoffs started; I want a bigger sample size in NY before giving him the benefit of the doubt here. I can't ignore seven years at under 32% just because he lit it up over a 27 game period.

You don't have to ignore 7 years. You just have to look at last years numbers. Then you have to project in your head what 'Melo's numbers will look like next year in the same system for 82 games (if there is a season)
'Melo shot as many 3s in his little time on the Knicks as he did in the bulk of the season out west. (and you know how insane the percentage was)

KD might be the better career 3pt shooter, (in his short career, mind you) but last year all he did was shoot more 3s at a lower %.

And again, enough about 'Melo's playoff stats.

Bruno
07-10-2011, 12:53 AM
'Melo's numbers on the Knicks are just as easy on the eyes as Durant's.

They're close; except Melo underperformed in the playoffs last year, Durant did not. Durant also has the sample size of three great seasons behind him in this argument. The potential in NY is there for Melo, but we only have a sample size of 27 regular season games, and less than fantastic post-season to gauge. I give the benefit of the doubt to Durant, who's been more efficient longer.

He also produces at a higher level. Look at their PERs.

Kashmir13579
07-10-2011, 12:56 AM
They're close; except Melo sucked in the playoffs last year, Durant did not. Durant also has the sample size of three great seasons behind him in this argument. The potential in NY is there for Melo, but we only have a sample size of 27 regular season games, and less than fantastic post-season to gauge. I give the benefit of the doubt to Durant, who's been more efficient longer.

He also produces at a higher level. Look at their PERs.

Refer to my last post. PER isn't the end-all-be-all, especially when Durant is taking hundreds more 3s on the season.

btw, i'm not saying Durant wouldn't be a good option at #2. All i'm saying is that my vote goes to 'Melo.

Bruno
07-10-2011, 12:59 AM
btw, i'm not saying Durant wouldn't be a good option at #2. All i'm saying is that my vote goes to 'Melo.

An opinion to which you're more than entitled to have, of corse. :cheers:

Kashmir13579
07-10-2011, 01:00 AM
I will say this, If 'Melo had Durant's shot selection this poll wouldn't even be close. Shot selection is probably the most obvious and valid argument against 'Melo here. I think we know who has more tools in the toolbox.

Knicks21
07-10-2011, 01:00 AM
They're close; except Melo underperformed in the playoffs last year, Durant did not. Durant also has the sample size of three great seasons behind him in this argument. The potential in NY is there for Melo, but we only have a sample size of 27 regular season games, and less than fantastic post-season to gauge. I give the benefit of the doubt to Durant, who's been more efficient longer.

He also produces at a higher level. Look at their PERs.

Melo made a Knicks team look half decent, Melo killed it in the Playoffs.

Kashmir13579
07-10-2011, 01:02 AM
Melo made a Knicks team look half decent, Melo killed it in the Playoffs.

I wouldn't say he "killed it". I'd say he had one historic game and made the most out of a terrible situation.

ChiSox219
07-10-2011, 01:07 AM
Durant's numbers would be absurd if he played under Karl or 'Antoni

VRP723
07-10-2011, 01:09 AM
Oh melo his ability to close games overadows his poor defense

So the fact that he's good in the final 5 seconds of a game maybe 3-5 times a season is more important than him being inefficient half the game for 82 games?

Crackadalic
07-10-2011, 01:16 AM
So the fact that he's good in the final 5 seconds of a game maybe 3-5 times a season is more important than him being inefficient half the game for 82 games?

Your acting as if he is shooting 40%. Durant numbers isnt only slightly better then melo in TS% and eFG%. Durant FT% is what gives him a huge edge in offensive efficiency

Law25
07-10-2011, 01:17 AM
Too be honest, I think it is Melo. He can post up, slash, shoot, clutch, everything offensively and they both suck on defense (Melo and Durant) so I will go with Melo

Durant is just a shooter.

This. Durant is not on his level yet on O and Melo is the better defender even though ther both pretty bad on it.

Law25
07-10-2011, 01:24 AM
They're close; except Melo underperformed in the playoffs last year, Durant did not. Durant also has the sample size of three great seasons behind him in this argument. The potential in NY is there for Melo, but we only have a sample size of 27 regular season games, and less than fantastic post-season to gauge. I give the benefit of the doubt to Durant, who's been more efficient longer.

He also produces at a higher level. Look at their PERs.

Melo will prove this year (if theirs an season) that there will be case for him being considered number one

Avenged
07-10-2011, 01:58 AM
Funny thing is that you can even argue a 33 year old in Pierce to be better than Melo if we're going off of last season. ;)

NBA-GMaster
07-10-2011, 02:02 AM
voted for Kevster.. Melo and Durant are lock in no.2&3.. no.4 please!!

naps
07-10-2011, 02:04 AM
Ok. Melo is the more versatile scorer no doubt. LeBron said Melo is the hardest to defend. But I picked Durant because of his efficiency. I also think Durant is the better defender of the two (Didn't check the stats but it's just I figure when I watch both play) even though they both suck on D. It's good to know that Durant is not over-hyped anymore. I remember last year people were going crazy over him saying he's the best in the league or a top 2 player etc etc. Looking forward to watch them both improve their D next season.

LTBaByyy
07-10-2011, 02:07 AM
If Durant shot is missing he can be stopped easily!!!!!!!

Melo is unguardable, period.




Even Lebron cant stop Melo

marj987
07-10-2011, 02:20 AM
If Durant shot is missing he can be stopped easily!!!!!!!

Melo is unguardable, period.




Even Lebron cant stop Melo

Even you should know.......Marion stoped Melo countless number of times....The only time he didn't is when Afflolo had the buzzer-beater.......So us both being Mavs fans....I must disagree with you.

naps
07-10-2011, 02:23 AM
If Durant shot is missing he can be stopped easily!!!!!!!

Melo is unguardable, period.




Even Lebron cant stop Melo

That's not true. Melo is harder to guard but LeBron has always dominated Melo individually. At least the stats (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=anthoca01) suggest that.

Ggravity2
07-10-2011, 02:23 AM
Durant's been better than Anthony since 09/10. For one thing, Durant didn't need to leave teams to team up with another allstar to be 2nd option (Amar'e is argurably better than Melo). Also if this is based on this past season, its Durant no doubt. He put up better numbers in a tougher conference and his team made it further in the playoffs

THE GIPPER
07-10-2011, 02:33 AM
I went melo. He destroys durant every time they play each other, is a more veristile scorer and a better rebounder.

THE GIPPER
07-10-2011, 02:34 AM
Durant's been better than Anthony since 09/10. For one thing, Durant didn't need to leave teams to team up with another allstar to be 2nd option (Amar'e is argurably better than Melo). Also if this is based on this past season, its Durant no doubt. He put up better numbers in a tougher conference and his team made it further in the playoffs

:confused: so durant is better than melo because melo went to ny? And by the way, NY is melo's team not stat's. He is not the second option.

THE GIPPER
07-10-2011, 02:35 AM
Even you should know.......Marion stoped Melo cuntless number of times....The only time he didn't is when Afflolo had the buzzer-beater.......So us both being Mavs fans....I must disagree with you.

pretty sure melo dropped 41 on marion that game

Arch Stanton
07-10-2011, 02:37 AM
Ironically both Durant and Melo played high school in Maryland.

MELO 15
07-10-2011, 02:48 AM
Look at the head to head matches between the two, Melo has beaten durant time and time again, need I remind u Me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Id6lkaXMtA or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wytvImv-Org take a look a durants poor looking face, he should be use to it, as the rest of the league is

Ggravity2
07-10-2011, 03:08 AM
:confused: so durant is better than melo because melo went to ny? And by the way, NY is melo's team not stat's. He is not the second option.

No I said one of the main reasons Durant is better if because he didn't need to convert teams. He stayed loyal to OKC and it worked out for him. I also said Amar'e is argurably better than Melo- though if anything they are equals (more so than Durant/Westrbook imo). Basedon on the stats, Durant is better and has been better since 09/10

Ggravity2
07-10-2011, 03:12 AM
Look at the head to head matches between the two, Melo has beaten durant time and time again, need I remind u Me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Id6lkaXMtA or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wytvImv-Org take a look a durants poor looking face, he should be use to it, as the rest of the league is

Head-to-Head matchups is a very poor way of determing who the better player is. Especially consider how small the sample size is. If that's your case then Deron Williams is better than Chris Paul, since Williams is 12-4 career vs Paul and puts up 17/8 on 53%, while Paul is at 15/9 on 42%

THE GIPPER
07-10-2011, 03:13 AM
No I said one of the main reasons Durant is better if because he didn't need to convert teams. He stayed loyal to OKC and it worked out for him. I also said Amar'e is argurably better than Melo- though if anything they are equals (more so than Durant/Westrbook imo). Basedon on the stats, Durant is better and has been better since 09/10

First of all carmelo never played with anyone as good as westbrook in denver and has never had as good of a supporting cast as durant has now. Second, durant has played 4 season in his career so to call him more loyal than melo doesnt make any sense because after melo's 4th year he was "loyal" too.

Ggravity2
07-10-2011, 03:18 AM
First of all carmelo never played with anyone as good as westbrook in denver and has never had as good of a supporting cast as durant has now. Second, durant has played 4 season in his career so to call him more loyal than melo doesnt make any sense because after melo's 4th year he was "loyal" too.

That's debatable. I think Melo's supporting cast in NY right is slightly better than Durant's in OKC. And I didn't say Melo wasn't loyal during his first 4 seasons. This is based on this season, so far what we seen and Melo left Denver.

JEDean89
07-10-2011, 03:19 AM
In my opinion melo has the best all around offensive game in the league. He can drain the 3 has an unstoppable midrange game can post up and can take it to the whole. The spin move drive he does is basically unstoppable. If there is any knock on his game it his defense which i think is better than most people say. Few were saying his defense was awful until the trade then tons of people were saying it. Durant has two knocks on his game. First is his post up game, he just can't post up the bigger small fowards. Second is his size, he needs to put on weight it he wants to be the best sf in the game. I think if we give melo a year on the knicks he will be the best scorer in the league and take the title from durant.

NYKnicksAllDay
07-10-2011, 03:20 AM
I'll go with Durant here.

jimm120
07-10-2011, 03:24 AM
Durant's been better than Anthony since 09/10. For one thing, Durant didn't need to leave teams to team up with another allstar to be 2nd option (Amar'e is argurably better than Melo). Also if this is based on this past season, its Durant no doubt. He put up better numbers in a tougher conference and his team made it further in the playoffs

Lol, a heat fan saying this.

And second...I don't know what you're smoking, but Melo is considered by most to be better than Stat. Stat worked his butt off at the start of the season. That is why he was an MVP candidtate for the 1st half of the season. But in no way is Stat better than Melo.

naps
07-10-2011, 03:28 AM
No I said one of the main reasons Durant is better if because he didn't need to convert teams. He stayed loyal to OKC and it worked out for him. I also said Amar'e is argurably better than Melo- though if anything they are equals (more so than Durant/Westrbook imo). Basedon on the stats, Durant is better and has been better since 09/10

Staying loyal has absolutely NOTHING to do with who's the better player.

NYKnicksAllDay
07-10-2011, 03:42 AM
That's debatable. I think Melo's supporting cast in NY right is slightly better than Durant's in OKC. And I didn't say Melo wasn't loyal during his first 4 seasons. This is based on this season, so far what we seen and Melo left Denver.

You're kidding right? There is no way Melo's supporting cast is better than Durant's.

Ggravity2
07-10-2011, 03:47 AM
Lol, a heat fan saying this.

And second...I don't know what you're smoking, but Melo is considered by most to be better than Stat. Stat worked his butt off at the start of the season. That is why he was an MVP candidtate for the 1st half of the season. But in no way is Stat better than Melo.

No, with Melo/Amar'e like I said, they're both a duo (equals). Even if Carmelo is the better player it's by very slim margin. During the reg season, Carmelo averaged only 1 more pt but on a 5 less field %. Amar'e still averaed more rpg, bpg, spg, to's. Their stats were close during the season, so it isn't a strecth to say Amar'e was the better player

Ggravity2
07-10-2011, 03:50 AM
You're kidding right? There is no way Melo's supporting cast is better than Durant's.

Why do you say that?? Carmelo has Amar'e and Billups as allstars. Durant only has Westbrook as an allstar. Wilson Chandler and Landry Fields are also good contributors. And I stated that I think Melo's supporting cast is "slightly" better, not by a whole lot though.

Knicks21
07-10-2011, 03:54 AM
Durant is more efficient, but you guys act like it is a by a huge margin. And to the fact the Melo is a much more versatile scorer, better rebounder and passer I really struggle seeing how Durant is that much of a better player than Melo.

NYKnicksAllDay
07-10-2011, 04:01 AM
Why do you say that?? Carmelo has Amar'e and Billups as allstars. Durant only has Westbrook as an allstar. Wilson Chandler and Landry Fields are also good contributors. And I stated that I think Melo's supporting cast is "slightly" better, not by a whole lot though.

Wilson Chandler doesn't play for the Knicks anymore, he was never on the team while Melo was here. He was part of the Melo trade. The Thunder had Harden, Ibaka, Perkins, Mohammed, Cook, Maynor, Collison and Sefolosha. The only Knicks other than Amar'e, Billups, and Melo that would even get playing time on the Thunder would be Douglas or Fields. Jared freaking Jeffries and Anthony Carter both played significant minutes for the Knicks. That should tell you all you need to know about the Knicks supporting cast. Nick Collison, who is the fourth best post player on the Thunder, would be our starting center if he were on our roster. Point being the Knicks front office would trade our supporting cast for the Thunder's in a heartbeat.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
07-10-2011, 04:27 AM
Durant. Far more efficient a scorer than Melo. Gets to the line better than anyone, and on a brilliant %.

Melo perhaps has the larger arsenal as a scorer, but does that matter when the other guy scores just as many points, and on a higher efficiency?

Plz show all of us where that state exists. The play that Melo guarded outscored him and actually won the game. KD is my boy and all and he's a former Longhorn... but he's overrated. He's scores in bunches and that's y ppl think he's #2 Melo is the 2nd best

Niro
07-10-2011, 04:47 AM
why do people always talk about "Who do I want the ball in the hands of on the line? Melo."

ITS NOT WHO IS MORE CLUTCH OR THE BETTER SCORER!

i would take monta over dwight if i have the ball with 5 seconds to go and down by 2
would i take monta over dwight for the whole game? **** no


its durant and then melo
after that there is a discussion

J-Relo
07-10-2011, 05:25 AM
2. Durant.
3. Melo.

Let's move to #4.

Kashmir13579
07-10-2011, 05:27 AM
Why do you say that?? Carmelo has Amar'e and Billups as allstars. Durant only has Westbrook as an allstar. Wilson Chandler and Landry Fields are also good contributors. And I stated that I think Melo's supporting cast is "slightly" better, not by a whole lot though.

LMAO. Don't act like you know what you're talking about when you don't. BTW, Wilson Chandler was traded for 'Melo.

naps
07-10-2011, 06:59 AM
We can easily go to #4 spot with Durant and Melo being 2 and 3. It gets interesting when after that. Till then it's boring to be honest.

bbcmillionaire
07-10-2011, 08:16 AM
The durant hype machine is crazy, melo does everything durant does plus more, oh well durant will win, but melo is the 2nd best

forgetaboutit
07-10-2011, 08:36 AM
Melo #1. Lebron #2.

GoPacers33
07-10-2011, 08:55 AM
Dg33

omeryeroush
07-10-2011, 08:57 AM
what about Michael Beasley have you forgotten him so quick?

MiamiWadeCounty
07-10-2011, 09:27 AM
what about Michael Beasley have you forgotten him so quick?

You'd have to be smoking pot if you were to vote Beasley here ;).

Knicks21
07-10-2011, 10:45 AM
Melo is Durant plus more, Durant is a better shooter and is only more efficient by the slightest of margins.

nycericanguy
07-10-2011, 11:18 AM
I'm a Knick fan, based off stats I say Durant by a hair. He is SLIGHTLY more efficient because he shoots higher % on the FT. Also he gets to the line more, but then thats because he plays more minutes.

Their PER 36 stats are amazingly similar, Melo actually gets to the line more PER 36.

I'll say Durant because I don't want to be a homer...lol. But Melo in NY was very efficient and showed he is actually a very good 3 point shooter. He will overtake Durant next year if he keeps that up.

jrm2054
07-10-2011, 11:49 AM
I wanted to say melo but went durant

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 12:06 PM
I love it when people say we should value Melo's offensive versatility makes him better. How can you prove this? Durant is an elite foul drawer, and you don't become that by being a shooter only. Besides, I don't care how a guy scores 28 a night, if he is doing it on better efficiency than a guy scoring at the same clip on much less efficiency. Their rebounding, passing, and defense cancel one another out.

They both play the same role. Be the primary scoring option on the perimeter at the SF position. They have the EXACT same job. Durant does his with more efficiency, and its by a good margin.

smith&wesson
07-10-2011, 12:07 PM
melo

LTBaByyy
07-10-2011, 12:55 PM
Melo

kobelakersnba
07-10-2011, 12:56 PM
durant just because he won scoring titles while carmelo has none :clap:

nycericanguy
07-10-2011, 01:03 PM
I love it when people say we should value Melo's offensive versatility makes him better. How can you prove this? Durant is an elite foul drawer, and you don't become that by being a shooter only. Besides, I don't care how a guy scores 28 a night, if he is doing it on better efficiency than a guy scoring at the same clip on much less efficiency. Their rebounding, passing, and defense cancel one another out.

They both play the same role. Be the primary scoring option on the perimeter at the SF position. They have the EXACT same job. Durant does his with more efficiency, and its by a good margin.

The margin could not be any closer. Durant is a slightly better FT shooter and 3 point shooter which gives him the slight edge in efficiency as shooting better in those 2 categories will of course lead to more points on less shots.

Melo gets the slight edge in reb, and assists. But there is nothing that drastically sets them apart.

as far as versatility, just because there isn't some advanced stat for it doesn't mean its not true. Melo does have a more versatile offensive game. There are some things that of course stats just cannot prove.

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 01:29 PM
The margin could not be any closer. Durant is a slightly better FT shooter and 3 point shooter which gives him the slight edge in efficiency as shooting better in those 2 categories will of course lead to more points on less shots.

Melo gets the slight edge in reb, and assists. But there is nothing that drastically sets them apart.

as far as versatility, just because there isn't some advanced stat for it doesn't mean its not true. Melo does have a more versatile offensive game. There are some things that of course stats just cannot prove.

Durant has a much better TS% as well as a much better eFG%. This measures scoring efficiency. Move past their basic percentages, those don't tell us much.

And again, I don't care if Melo posts up more, or uses another move Durant doesn't. Durant doesn't need those in order to be more efficient than Melo.

NYMetros
07-10-2011, 01:30 PM
Durant's a little more efficient than Anthony, so I'll go with Durant. Both are amazing players though, love watching both guys play.

Hustlenomics
07-10-2011, 01:32 PM
you guys bring up Durants efficiency like he isn't a 7 footer

airronijordan
07-10-2011, 01:32 PM
It's such a toss up

I'm a Knicks fan and I voted for Durant, because if they were to trade teams - Durant would have taken the Knicks deeper into the playoffs while I'm not sure if Melo would take OKC to the WCF

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 01:38 PM
you guys bring up Durants efficiency like he isn't a 7 footer

how else are you measuring two players that appear very similar at a 10,000 foot level?

tredigs
07-10-2011, 01:41 PM
you guys bring up Durants efficiency like he isn't a 7 footer

You bring up the fact that he's a 7 footer (he isn't) like he's not a dynamic jump shooter and slasher. This guy's not leading the league in scoring back to back seasons off of put backs.

Bornknick73
07-10-2011, 01:53 PM
Not because im a Knicks fan but because of the length of time that hes been doing it.

Carmelo Anthony.

Durant is also worthy of the spot but he just hasnt done it as long as Melo has. Durant is just as bad defensively, and isnt the rebounder Melo is. 1v1 Melo is second to none at the 3. Durant is a superior athlete but isnt the 1v1 threat Melo is. Once Melo becomes a better defender and 3ball shooter he will over take Durant in the overall consensus. And he will become better at the 3 and defense.

Durant is a better dunker and his height and dribble create his bias. Add that the kid is a class act and hes defintely worthy. But to me he needs to do it for a few more years before he can bump Melo from the #2 spot.

J-Relo
07-10-2011, 02:14 PM
Not because im a Knicks fan but because of the length of time that hes been doing it.

Carmelo Anthony.

Durant is also worthy of the spot but he just hasnt done it as long as Melo has. Durant is just as bad defensively, and isnt the rebounder Melo is. 1v1 Melo is second to none at the 3. Durant is a superior athlete but isnt the 1v1 threat Melo is. Once Melo becomes a better defender and 3ball shooter he will over take Durant in the overall consensus. And he will become better at the 3 and defense.

Durant is a better dunker and his height and dribble create his bias. Add that the kid is a class act and hes defintely worthy. But to me he needs to do it for a few more years before he can bump Melo from the #2 spot.

I just don't understand how that can make someone better, especially when ranking players at the time not career-wise.

tredigs
07-10-2011, 02:20 PM
Not because im a Knicks fan but because of the length of time that hes been doing it.

Carmelo Anthony.

Durant is also worthy of the spot but he just hasnt done it as long as Melo has. Durant is just as bad defensively, and isnt the rebounder Melo is. 1v1 Melo is second to none at the 3. Durant is a superior athlete but isnt the 1v1 threat Melo is. Once Melo becomes a better defender and 3ball shooter he will over take Durant in the overall consensus. And he will become better at the 3 and defense.

Durant is a better dunker and his height and dribble create his bias. Add that the kid is a class act and hes defintely worthy. But to me he needs to do it for a few more years before he can bump Melo from the #2 spot.

I don't think that the fact that Melo has been in the league longer has any bearing on the fact that Durant has now surpassed him (as of last year, imo). I'd also say it might be foolish to assume Melo - in his 9th season - will somehow become a better defender (under Mike D of all coaches). He just doesn't show the desire on that end, while Durant absolutely does. He's already a far better team defender than Melo, and I only see their defensive gap widening given KD's superior work ethic and athleticism.

KD's leadership and commitment to improving on both ends sets the tone for OKC, and it's a big reason why he's already leading the team to deep playoff runs - and is now on a perennial contender. I truly just don't think Melo has that drive, and I think it shows up in the playoffs consistently not being able to lead his team out of the first round.

Numbers wise, KD led him in PER (and playoff PER), WinShares, WS/48 (and Playoff WinShares, WS/48), points per game along with a better eFG%, TS% (ditto for playoffs), steals, blocks, Offensive rating (by a huge margin - ditto for playoffs), defensive rating, etc.

Both are great, but KD is simply the one you want on your team if given the choice. He is better than Melo.

The April Fool
07-10-2011, 02:32 PM
I love it when people say we should value Melo's offensive versatility makes him better. How can you prove this? Durant is an elite foul drawer, and you don't become that by being a shooter only. Besides, I don't care how a guy scores 28 a night, if he is doing it on better efficiency than a guy scoring at the same clip on much less efficiency. Their rebounding, passing, and defense cancel one another out.

They both play the same role. Be the primary scoring option on the perimeter at the SF position. They have the EXACT same job. Durant does his with more efficiency, and its by a good margin.

Durant is more efficient because he takes a lot of shots running off of screens or doing push-offs. Melo does more isolations & posting up from the triple threat and it causes him to take tougher shots.

Ray Allen at his peak was more efficient than Kobe, but like I mentioned it all has to do with how they get their shots.

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 02:37 PM
Durant is more efficient because he takes a lot of shots running off of screens or doing push-offs. Melo does more isolations & posting up from the triple threat and it causes him to take tougher shots.

Ray Allen at his peak was more efficient than Kobe, but like I mentioned it all has to do with how they get their shots.

well maybe Melo should become a smarter player than....

And Ray Allen may be a more efficient scorer than Kobe, but he didn't do anything else as well, hence why that comparison doesn't make sense. Kobe was a better all around player. Durant and Melo offset each other in everything outside their efficiency in scoring. Therefore its the measure we use.

The April Fool
07-10-2011, 02:37 PM
I don't think that the fact that Melo has been in the league longer has any bearing on the fact that Durant has now surpassed him (as of last year, imo). I'd also say it might be foolish to assume Melo - in his 9th season - will somehow become a better defender (under Mike D of all coaches). He just doesn't show the desire on that end, while Durant absolutely does. He's already a far better team defender than Melo, and I only see their defensive gap widening given KD's superior work ethic and athleticism.

KD's leadership and commitment to improving on both ends sets the tone for OKC, and it's a big reason why he's already leading the team to deep playoff runs - and is now on a perennial contender. I truly just don't think Melo has that drive, and I think it shows up in the playoffs consistently not being able to lead his team out of the first round.

Numbers wise, KD led him in PER (and playoff PER), WinShares, WS/48 (and Playoff WinShares, WS/48), points per game along with a better eFG%, TS% (ditto for playoffs), steals, blocks, Offensive rating (by a huge margin - ditto for playoffs), defensive rating, etc.

Both are great, but KD is simply the one you want on your team if given the choice. He is better than Melo.

I'd much rather trust the guy who is 4-6 in clutch shot situations than the one who is 2-11.

Durant is a nice young player, but I'll take the guy who lacks the edge in all of the stats but will win me the game.

When Durant develops a "clutch" reputation then I'll re-think my choice.

The April Fool
07-10-2011, 02:43 PM
well maybe Melo should become a smarter player than....

And Ray Allen may be a more efficient scorer than Kobe, but he didn't do anything else as well, hence why that comparison doesn't make sense. Kobe was a better all around player. Durant and Melo offset each other in everything outside their efficiency in scoring. Therefore its the measure we use.

Why would Melo need to be a smarter player? Thats his overall game. He plays the way he does because hes great doing it, he can post his man up as well as pull up off of the dribble. He's Adrian Dantley meets Alex English as a player.

I understand the efficiency argument to seperate the two, I was just referring to the difference is due to their games.

Redbull
07-10-2011, 02:45 PM
Durant then Melo.

Rivera
07-10-2011, 02:50 PM
at this point i dont think we need a#3 sf in the nba with the vote tally

we should just skip to #4

tredigs
07-10-2011, 02:53 PM
I'd much rather trust the guy who is 4-6 in clutch shot situations than the one who is 2-11.

Durant is a nice young player, but I'll take the guy who lacks the edge in all of the stats but will win me the game.

When Durant develops a "clutch" reputation then I'll re-think my choice.

Well, since this is involving Knicks and OKC, here was a fun one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEyAIXnvOdg&feature=related

Or how about some of KD absolutely taking over game 5 of the OKC-DEN playoff series and advancing the team to round 2? Melo could learn a thing or two from this type of playoff performance in the clutch. Fast forward to the 1minute mark and enjoy the show... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I4QtacZIXA&feature=related

There are plenty more to choose from - KD only got better in the playoffs.

But I do agree, Melo is an amazingly clutch performer on the offensive end during the regular season.

SeoulBeatz
07-10-2011, 03:07 PM
tough decision for me but i gotta go KD, by a hair.

John Walls Era
07-10-2011, 03:56 PM
2010 Rankings Look pretty good.

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 04:00 PM
Why would Melo need to be a smarter player? Thats his overall game. He plays the way he does because hes great doing it, he can post his man up as well as pull up off of the dribble. He's Adrian Dantley meets Alex English as a player.

I understand the efficiency argument to seperate the two, I was just referring to the difference is due to their games.

Melo needs to stop taking many of the shots he takes if he wants to become more efficient. Over the years, he has had his shot blocked a ton, meaning he just doesn't care if there is tough defense on him, he is shooting it. This is a single example.

Efficiency for two guys that command this much attention is not just because of the style of their games. hell, if Melo didn't have the typical bump in play from a trade that nearly everyone experiences, he would have been right at his career average in TS%, etc, and this wouldn't even be a debate. Well, a rational one that is.

Durant has proven to be the better scorer, and because they both have the exact same role, its enough to make him the better player.

Kashmir13579
07-10-2011, 04:17 PM
Melo needs to stop taking many of the shots he takes if he wants to become more efficient. Over the years, he has had his shot blocked a ton, meaning he just doesn't care if there is tough defense on him, he is shooting it. This is a single example.

Efficiency for two guys that command this much attention is not just because of the style of their games. hell, if Melo didn't have the typical bump in play from a trade that nearly everyone experiences, he would have been right at his career average in TS%, etc, and this wouldn't even be a debate. Well, a rational one that is.

Durant has proven to be the better scorer, and because they both have the exact same role, its enough to make him the better player.

:confused:

Kashmir13579
07-10-2011, 04:22 PM
Durant is more efficient because he takes a lot of shots running off of screens or doing push-offs. Melo does more isolations & posting up from the triple threat and it causes him to take tougher shots.

Ray Allen at his peak was more efficient than Kobe, but like I mentioned it all has to do with how they get their shots.

Durant is more efficient because he shoots more 3 pointers and less 2 pointers. You can break it down from there however you want but its really that simple. If 'Melo plays a full season in D'antoni's offense this poll should look differently next year.

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 04:22 PM
:confused:

what are you confused about? Melo played better in the games he went to NY, than he ever has. He will regress to his means next season. Typically when a player, especially one in star status, is traded during their prime, they do indeed play better for a short period of time than they usually do. It ended up skewing Melo's numbers to show him above his normals. Am I supposed to believe that he will spend next season setting career highs in PER, TS%, Offrtg, etc?

Kashmir13579
07-10-2011, 04:32 PM
what are you confused about? Melo played better in the games he went to NY, than he ever has. He will regress to his means next season. Typically when a player, especially one in star status, is traded during their prime, they do indeed play better for a short period of time than they usually do. It ended up skewing Melo's numbers to show him above his normals. Am I supposed to believe that he will spend next season setting career highs in PER, TS%, Offrtg, etc?

Why not? I remember reading some of you're posts a while back about how 'Melo was playing uninspired in Denver this year. Now he's playing under a coach that will utilize his full offensive potential. He was playing as a point forward quite a bit, which he has the potential to do, but we never saw him do it in Denver. He was also taking a lot less long 2s and more 3s. (ala Durant)

And is it really true that all players play out of their mind after being traded? It certainly wasn't the case for Billups i can tell you that much. Thats mainly what i was confused about. I realize the edge in TS% on the year is enough to get your vote and i understand the logic behind it.

THE GIPPER
07-10-2011, 04:55 PM
what are you confused about? Melo played better in the games he went to NY, than he ever has. He will regress to his means next season. Typically when a player, especially one in star status, is traded during their prime, they do indeed play better for a short period of time than they usually do. It ended up skewing Melo's numbers to show him above his normals. Am I supposed to believe that he will spend next season setting career highs in PER, TS%, Offrtg, etc?

I personally expect melo to put up career numbers next year in ny. considering he will be playing in d'antoni's system for an entire year and he should be more motivated than ever. improved chemistry with amare and the rest of the Knicks should help a lot too but hey it's just my opinion vs yours so we'll have to wait and see.

Also I feel like melo will age much better than Durant will because melo doesn't really rely on explosiveness all that much so I think he could be good for a while still.

THE GIPPER
07-10-2011, 05:03 PM
And Melo DID NOT play the best ball of his career in ny. That would be the 09 playoffs.

Baller1
07-10-2011, 05:36 PM
I'm still shocked at how illogical everyone's being. My god.

One player scores better than the other, therefore you take him considering all other aspects of the game are relatively even. Simple as that.

Cano4prez
07-10-2011, 06:18 PM
:laugh2: Melo stans

juno10
07-10-2011, 06:30 PM
what are you confused about? Melo played better in the games he went to NY, than he ever has. He will regress to his means next season. Typically when a player, especially one in star status, is traded during their prime, they do indeed play better for a short period of time than they usually do. It ended up skewing Melo's numbers to show him above his normals. Am I supposed to believe that he will spend next season setting career highs in PER, TS%, Offrtg, etc?

basically the john salmons effect.

GiantsSwaGG
07-10-2011, 06:35 PM
I'm still shocked at how illogical everyone's being. My god.

One player scores better than the other, therefore you take him considering all other aspects of the game are relatively even. Simple as that.

:facepalm:Homer

HuRRiCaNeS324
07-10-2011, 06:43 PM
1-800-STFU, Hawkeye Nation, mRc08, Wallace

****ing homers....

Kashmir13579
07-10-2011, 07:10 PM
OH, and to argue the TS% PPS ******** even more. Melo cleans up his own misses at the rim more than half the time. So don't spew out stats that don't tell the whole truth ;)

I feel like he misses those on purpose sometimes just so he can get his own rebound. :laugh2:

btw i agree with you. Gotta love 'Melo.

coryd238
07-10-2011, 07:16 PM
I feel like he misses those on purpose sometimes just so he can get his own rebound. :laugh2:

btw i agree with you. Gotta love 'Melo.


Haha, could be :p

And him getting his own rebound that many times really shows you how gifted he his. His second jump is insane :speechless:

LTBaByyy
07-10-2011, 07:20 PM
We better skip to #4 SF next

I would be so pissed if we have to do a #3 SF

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 07:23 PM
Why not? I remember reading some of you're posts a while back about how 'Melo was playing uninspired in Denver this year. Now he's playing under a coach that will utilize his full offensive potential. He was playing as a point forward quite a bit, which he has the potential to do, but we never saw him do it in Denver. He was also taking a lot less long 2s and more 3s. (ala Durant)

And is it really true that all players play out of their mind after being traded? It certainly wasn't the case for Billups i can tell you that much. Thats mainly what i was confused about. I realize the edge in TS% on the year is enough to get your vote and i understand the logic behind it.

I tend to not use a 20 game sample size versus a 630 game sample size. Melo no longer has a PG (sorry Billups, you are washed up) to set him up all night. I think he regresses to the normal.

And shooting more three's isn't going to help him. Its been shown the more he shoots them, the more he misses them.

As for the trade factor, I thought I added that its a player like Melo, in their prime for example. Older players have seen it all. They don't jump up and down like the younger guys.

I do think Mike's system may help his scoring efficiency, even if its to finally get Melo above average in TS% and on the side of Offrtg that suggests star, but I don't think it will have that much effect.

If we also add to the fact that Durant had a very down year compared to his previous year, and that Melo actually had one of his best overall years, and we can expect Durant to have a bounceback to at least somewhere in the middle of the two, it becomes even more clear that Durant is and will be the superior SF

THE GIPPER
07-10-2011, 07:25 PM
Wrong, it was 2009-2010 season. He was the midseason MVP, but injuries slowed him down. So stfu and quit acting like you know anything about Melo.

And scoring wise, Durant is Ray Allen. Melo is Kobe. Stfu and quit looking at stats. Maybe you should watch them play a little more often, Hollinger stan ;)

OH, and to argue the TS% PPS ******** even more. Melo cleans up his own misses at the rim more than half the time. So don't spew out stats that don't tell the whole truth ;)

Holy cow I think I hit a nerve... And by the way, dont tell me to watch melo more often. I've watched literally every nuggets game in the last two years. And bro, calm down I was defending melo.

And you calling melo Kobe deserves a :facepalm:

And you calling Melo kobe deserves a

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 07:27 PM
I personally expect melo to put up career numbers next year in ny. considering he will be playing in d'antoni's system for an entire year and he should be more motivated than ever. improved chemistry with amare and the rest of the Knicks should help a lot too but hey it's just my opinion vs yours so we'll have to wait and see.

Also I feel like melo will age much better than Durant will because melo doesn't really rely on explosiveness all that much so I think he could be good for a while still.

you expect Melo to age better than a 6'11", long armed shooter who leans back? And I don't think we need to be talking about aging when KD is barely old enough to drink. He will be in his prime when Melo is complete decline

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 07:28 PM
as for Melo thriving in Mike's system, weren't most of you calling for his head? I would be.

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 07:30 PM
1-800-STFU, Hawkeye Nation, mRc08, Wallace

****ing homers....

what?

coryd238
07-10-2011, 07:31 PM
Oh, and Melo was injured all season. Odds are that none of you guys knew that....

Swashcuff
07-10-2011, 07:31 PM
as for Melo thriving in Mike's system, weren't most of you calling for his head? I would be.

Thriving in Mike's system? I can't understand that argument. Didn't he already thrive in Karl's what is the difference now with Mike's?

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 07:33 PM
Oh, and Melo was injured all season. Odds are that none of you guys knew that....

so? You are as good as what you do on the court. That goes for every player in the league, or sports in general. Should we have voted for Roy at #3-4 in the SG poll?

coryd238
07-10-2011, 07:33 PM
Holy cow I think I hit a nerve... And by the way, dont tell me to watch melo more often. I've watched literally every nuggets game in the last two years. And bro, calm down I was defending melo.

And you calling melo Kobe deserves a :facepalm:

And you calling Melo kobe deserves a

Sorry man, I didn't recognize you from the Nugs forum :p I normally expect hate from PSD users... so I expected the same from you :facepalm: My bad.

And I'm comparing them to how they score and their shooting percentages, not talent wise... I thought that was obvious lol.

And of course my post gets deleted...

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 07:34 PM
Thriving in Mike's system? I can't understand that argument. Didn't he already thrive in Karl's what is the difference now with Mike's?

there isn't much of a difference actually.

coryd238
07-10-2011, 07:36 PM
so? You are as good as what you do on the court. That goes for every player in the league, or sports in general. Should we have voted for Roy at #3-4 in the SG poll?
Ummm, I'm not sure if you're serious....

Roy's injuring is career threatening, Melo's isn't. Of course if he's injured he won't be able to perform as high. The fact that he's still arguably better than Durant WITH the injury should be speak for itself.

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 07:40 PM
Ummm, I'm not sure if you're serious....

Roy's injuring is career threatening, Melo's isn't. Of course if he's injured he won't be able to perform as high. The fact that he's still arguably better than Durant WITH the injury should be speak for itself.

He wasn't better than Durant. And as I said, boo who on the injury. Tons of players play with them all year. What about the year prior, when Durant was FAR superior to him?

HuRRiCaNeS324
07-10-2011, 07:43 PM
what?

Thats not you, those are people who voted for Deng over Durant and Melo lol.

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 07:45 PM
Thats not you, those are people who voted for Deng over Durant and Melo lol.

ahh.

coryd238
07-10-2011, 07:48 PM
He wasn't better than Durant. And as I said, boo who on the injury. Tons of players play with them all year. What about the year prior, when Durant was FAR superior to him?

Melo injured his elbow in 2010 right before the all star break, before that he was the MVP according to sites like ESPN and NBA.com ;). He shot like 48% and 37% from 3 while posting 29 PPG all while grabbing the most boards of his career. The Nugs were 35-18 before he got injured.

Try again.

JayStar-8
07-10-2011, 07:52 PM
Why isn't travis outlaw on this poll? :rolleyes:

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 07:53 PM
Melo injured his elbow in 2010 right before the all star break, before that he was the MVP according to sites like ESPN and NBA.com ;). He shot like 48% and 37% from 3 while posting 29 PPG all while grabbing the most boards of his career. The Nugs were 35-18 before he got injured.

Try again.

I don't need to try again. It just doesn't matter WHY he finished a season with his accumulated numbers. He did. This is why we have 82 games. The best, toughest player stands taller after that game.

coryd238
07-10-2011, 07:56 PM
I don't need to try again. It just doesn't matter WHY he finished a season with his accumulated numbers. He did. This is why we have 82 games. The best, toughest player stands taller after that game.

Now you're grasping at straws :lol: You know that's not true. So would you say Durant > Kobe because Kobe's injured? Because we all know Durant is more "efficient" than him :eyebrow:

Swashcuff
07-10-2011, 07:58 PM
Melo injured his elbow in 2010 right before the all star break, before that he was the MVP according to sites like ESPN and NBA.com ;). He shot like 48% and 37% from 3 while posting 29 PPG all while grabbing the most boards of his career. The Nugs were 35-18 before he got injured.

Try again.

Do you guys seriously expect us to believe these lies? Hawkeye didn't just start following the game this morning you know. Smh

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 08:01 PM
Now you're grasping at straws :lol: You know that's not true. So would you say Durant > Kobe because Kobe's injured? Because we all know Durant is more "efficient" than him :eyebrow:

This season? Its debateable when comparing Durant and Kobe. Kobe has declined, and its obvious there are better. I personally think Durant is better at this stage.

Efficiency comes into play because Melo and Durant play the exact same role. Their defense, rebounding, passing, all offset each other. They score at the same clip. From a 10,000 foot level, they appear the same. But when we see HOW they score, it becomes clearer that Durant does it better.

You also ducked the fact that I pointed out Durant's 09-10' season was far better than any Melo has ever had in his NBA life. At age 21. Durant will in all likelihood continue to create a gap between the two going forward.

Baller1
07-10-2011, 08:13 PM
Now you're grasping at straws :lol: You know that's not true. So would you say Durant > Kobe because Kobe's injured? Because we all know Durant is more "efficient" than him :eyebrow:

Yes, Durant is better than Kobe at this stage in their careers.

Kashmir13579
07-10-2011, 08:24 PM
as for Melo thriving in Mike's system, weren't most of you calling for his head? I would be.

No i actually defend the guy. I think he gets a bad wrap and his lack of defensive teams have to do mostly with personnel. I want nothing more for D'antoni to fix the flaws in 'Melos game just to silence the doubters. I think it will happen, too.

There really aren't any better coaches available anyway. In my own perfect world Lawrence Frank would leave Boston to coach in NY but we can't have everything.... :p

Catfish1314
07-10-2011, 08:27 PM
I would be so pissed if we have to do a #3 SF

Would you? Would you!? Would that just absolutely infuriate you?

On a serious note, Durant goes here. He and Melo are mostly identical in every facet of the game. Both are elite scorers and Durant is a better scorer.

Kashmir13579
07-10-2011, 08:38 PM
I tend to not use a 20 game sample size versus a 630 game sample size. Melo no longer has a PG (sorry Billups, you are washed up) to set him up all night. I think he regresses to the normal.

Billups is as good as gone. But i don't think Billups has been "setting 'Melo up all night" to begin with. Billups makes the right passes but he is not a pass-first player. I think 'Melo could benefit highly at this point in his career playing with a distribution oriented PG. Also - whether or not you want to disregard his 27 games on the Knicks is up to you, but regardless, he wasn't putting up career highs because of Billups. Hell - Billups barely even played.


And shooting more three's isn't going to help him. Its been shown the more he shoots them, the more he misses them.

Wasn't the case last season. It was the case for Durant.


I do think Mike's system may help his scoring efficiency, even if its to finally get Melo above average in TS% and on the side of Offrtg that suggests star, but I don't think it will have that much effect.
It already has helped. He's taking less long 2s and more 3s, which is the primary reason Durant beats him in advanced %s. (lets be honest, here. its the ONLY reason) Now all he has to do is keep doing it.


If we also add to the fact that Durant had a very down year compared to his previous year, and that Melo actually had one of his best overall years, and we can expect Durant to have a bounceback to at least somewhere in the middle of the two, it becomes even more clear that Durant is and will be the superior SF


Its hard to argue with this, but i firmly believe SHOT SELECTION is the only thing separating them. He needs discipline and a coach that caters to his strengths.

I think (i hope) you'd agree that a hypothetical 'Melo with Durant's shot selection would prevail 9 times out of 10. While i admit that Durant works better with what he has, he simply doesn't have all the tools that 'Melo has.

Hawkeye15
07-10-2011, 09:21 PM
I think (i hope) you'd agree that a hypothetical 'Melo with Durant's shot selection would prevail 9 times out of 10. While i admit that Durant works better with what he has, he simply doesn't have all the tools that 'Melo has.


well, Durant at a young age has already shown more discipline than Melo ever has with shot selection. Therefore I think Durant will continue to add separation between the two.

theheatles
07-10-2011, 09:26 PM
for future polls, i nominate lamar odom, caron butler, josh smith and gerald wallace

Kashmir13579
07-10-2011, 09:29 PM
well, Durant at a young age has already shown more discipline than Melo ever has with shot selection. Therefore I think Durant will continue to add separation between the two.

Thats realistic. All i was saying (hypothetically) was that if 'Melo had Durant's shot selection, He would be the better player. It isn't like Durant can do anything on the court that 'Melo can't do, in-fact i'd argue its the opposite. It comes down to discipline. I just hope 'Melo keeps up what he was doing in NY for 82 games, then this becomes more of a discussion on paper.

Kashmir13579
07-10-2011, 09:29 PM
Can we get Gallinari up on the poll, too? i'm curious to see where he ranks now that he isn't on the Knickerbockers. We all know he got snubbed last season. :rolleyes:

kidinkkk
07-10-2011, 09:34 PM
melo over durant. they're both scorers and dont do much else. melo is a better scorer than durant.

kidinkkk
07-10-2011, 09:34 PM
Can we get Gallinari up on the poll, too? i'm curious to see where he ranks now that he isn't on the Knickerbockers. We all know he got snubbed last season. :rolleyes:

lol

Swashcuff
07-10-2011, 09:39 PM
for future polls, i nominate lamar odom, caron butler, josh smith and gerald wallace

Odom and Smith are PFs they played those positions exclusively the last 3 seasons and Caron Butler hardly even stepped on the floor last season. We don't know if he'll ever be the same player again.

Knicks21
07-10-2011, 10:16 PM
Do you guys seriously expect us to believe these lies? Hawkeye didn't just start following the game this morning you know. Smh

Melo was up there but he wasnt the best.

Swashcuff
07-10-2011, 10:33 PM
Melo was up there but he wasnt the best.

No he wasn't

http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110215/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110208/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110201/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110126/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110119/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110111/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101228/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101221/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101214/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101207/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101116/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101123/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101130/nba-awards-watch

Prior to the ASG Melo was only ranked in the top 10 3 times and those all came in November. Never lead and to say he was up there would be a bit ignorant because then the same can be said about 25+ other players.

LTBaByyy
07-10-2011, 10:38 PM
for future polls, i nominate lamar odom, caron butler, josh smith and gerald wallace

Are you really nominating 2 guys that play 92% of on the court at PF in a top 10 SF poll?

JustBringIt
07-10-2011, 10:44 PM
This one is hard but I'll give the slight edge to durant

TheRunKiller
07-10-2011, 10:49 PM
ok durant won he's the #2 SF in the league...time to move on to #3

JustBringIt
07-10-2011, 10:52 PM
Yes, Durant is better than Kobe at this stage in their careers.

Umm noooo

bigA9331
07-10-2011, 11:03 PM
Durant

TrueFan420
07-10-2011, 11:18 PM
what i want to know is how anyone other than durant or melo has a vote.

theheatles
07-10-2011, 11:29 PM
Are you really nominating 2 guys that play 92% of on the court at PF in a top 10 SF poll?

92% lol wtf are u talking about...both are clearly small forwards, lamar is a swiss army knife like lebron because he plays pg, sg, center, small and power forward...josh smith is a natural 3 as al horford is a 4 but larry drew switches his **** up...so yeah i am def nominating players who play the 3...not that you even watch any games other than mavs playoff games :shrug:

roshan3ai
07-10-2011, 11:33 PM
Can we get Gallinari up on the poll, too? i'm curious to see where he ranks now that he isn't on the Knickerbockers. We all know he got snubbed last season. :rolleyes:

:nod: I want to see where Gallo ranks

Swashcuff
07-10-2011, 11:40 PM
92% lol wtf are u talking about...both are clearly small forwards, lamar is a swiss army knife like lebron because he plays pg, sg, center, small and power forward...josh smith is a natural 3 as al horford is a 4 but larry drew switches his **** up...so yeah i am def nominating players who play the 3...not that you even watch any games other than mavs playoff games :shrug:

He spoke the truth. They both played the vast majority of their minutes the last 3 seasons at the 4.

You clearly don't watch Hawks or Laker ball much.

If a player plays a position exclusively even if its not his natural position he's suppose to be in the poll for the position in which he plays.

You can't compare a man who plays against PFs every game for the past 3+ seasons with a man who plays against SFs for every game. That's makes no sense, it makes for a flawed comparison.

theheatles
07-11-2011, 12:38 AM
He spoke the truth. They both played the vast majority of their minutes the last 3 seasons at the 4.

You clearly don't watch Hawks or Laker ball much.

If a player plays a position exclusively even if its not his natural position he's suppose to be in the poll for the position in which he plays.

You can't compare a man who plays against PFs every game for the past 3+ seasons with a man who plays against SFs for every game. That's makes no sense, it makes for a flawed comparison.

its more 50% if anything...josh smith constantly changes from the 3 to 4 depending if collins, pachulia or marvin williams starts...and when bynum was out odom he always played the 4 but when barnes and ron was out and certain lineups odom just plays everything and when some1 plays everything the 3 is usually the position to label which odom has always been listed as because of his skill sets for his length

naps
07-11-2011, 12:53 AM
lol @ this thread. Durant won this yesterday and there is absolutely NO chance in the world that Melo wins this. So why isn't the next thread already here yet?

coryd238
07-11-2011, 01:01 AM
No he wasn't

http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110215/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110208/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110201/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110126/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110119/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110111/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101228/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101221/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101214/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101207/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101116/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101123/nba-awards-watch
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-101130/nba-awards-watch

Prior to the ASG Melo was only ranked in the top 10 3 times and those all came in November. Never lead and to say he was up there would be a bit ignorant because then the same can be said about 25+ other players.

Umm, NO I've been saying 2009-2010 this whole time. Maybe you should pay attention. Jesus ****ing christ you guys have no reading comprehension skills. Damn.

coryd238
07-11-2011, 01:01 AM
This season? Its debateable when comparing Durant and Kobe. Kobe has declined, and its obvious there are better. I personally think Durant is better at this stage.

Efficiency comes into play because Melo and Durant play the exact same role. Their defense, rebounding, passing, all offset each other. They score at the same clip. From a 10,000 foot level, they appear the same. But when we see HOW they score, it becomes clearer that Durant does it better.

You also ducked the fact that I pointed out Durant's 09-10' season was far better than any Melo has ever had in his NBA life. At age 21. Durant will in all likelihood continue to create a gap between the two going forward.

No I didn't? Read through my posts again.

Lakers + Giants
07-11-2011, 01:05 AM
I'd honestly rather have melo, just barely though. . .

Evolution23
07-11-2011, 01:10 AM
I guess it depends on what you deem more important. Offensive versatility or offensive efficiency? Believe it or not, Carmelo became very efficient once he went to NY, and he's always been a versatile scorer. Sorry, but Kevin Durant is just a one dimensional scorer to me, and I'll take the guy who can post, drive, shoot the three, very good mid range game and get to the foul line. Granted 'Melo isn't as efficient on an overall scale as Durant, but his excellent rebounding(off of his own misses no less) almost negates that imo.

nicely put

coryd238
07-11-2011, 01:26 AM
And fact is, if your team is going through I dry spell and you NEED a bucket, you go to Melo. That's a fact.

JLynn943
07-11-2011, 01:36 AM
If he were to actually play like he cares consistently, Anthony would easily be second. Even still, I think his versatility pushes him over Durant.

coryd238
07-11-2011, 01:41 AM
If he were to actually play like he cares consistently, Anthony would easily be second. Even still, I think his versatility pushes him over Durant.


This poll should be "If you had to have a SF for one game, who would it be?" Cause we all know Melo could EASILY dominate Durant .

Baller1
07-11-2011, 02:07 AM
And fact is, if your team is going through I dry spell and you NEED a bucket, you go to Melo. That's a fact.

Based off what?

I'll answer that for you; nothing.

Baller1
07-11-2011, 02:09 AM
This poll should be "If you had to have a SF for one game, who would it be?" Cause we all know Melo could EASILY dominate Durant .

Again, this is opinion.

Based off absolutely nothing at that.

coryd238
07-11-2011, 02:16 AM
Based off what?

I'll answer that for you; nothing.

Basically, if you take away the screens, Durant can't do ****. He can't create his own shot like Melo can. If a team is playing perfect defense, you want Melo shooting because of his versatility.

THE GIPPER
07-11-2011, 02:21 AM
you expect Melo to age better than a 6'11", long armed shooter who leans back? And I don't think we need to be talking about aging when KD is barely old enough to drink. He will be in his prime when Melo is complete decline

yes

Sadds The Gr8
07-11-2011, 02:23 AM
Basically, if you take away the screens, Durant can't do ****. He can't create his own shot like Melo can. If a team is playing perfect defense, you want Melo shooting because of his versatility.

LOLwut? that's like saying if you take away the 3pt line, Ray Allen can't do ****. or if u take away dunking, Howard or Griffin can't do ****. That logic is absolute garbage

THE GIPPER
07-11-2011, 02:26 AM
you expect Melo to age better than a 6'11", long armed shooter who leans back? And I don't think we need to be talking about aging when KD is barely old enough to drink. He will be in his prime when Melo is complete decline

Oops

Baller1
07-11-2011, 02:27 AM
Basically, if you take away the screens, Durant can't do ****. He can't create his own shot like Melo can. If a team is playing perfect defense, you want Melo shooting because of his versatility.

:laugh:

That could be the most pathetic thing I've ever read on this site.

So tell me then, how does Durant get to the free throw line then?

coryd238
07-11-2011, 02:29 AM
LOLwut? that's like saying if you take away the 3pt line, Ray Allen can't do ****. or if u take away dunking, Howard or Griffin can't do ****. That logic is absolute garbage

Exactly, when teams take away that how do those players do? In late game situations, when the game is on the line and the defense buckles down they're not letting you off those easy screens and that's a FACT , don't even try to dispute that.

In late game situations you need someone that can create their own offense, and Melo's that guy.

THE GIPPER
07-11-2011, 02:29 AM
Sorry man, I didn't recognize you from the Nugs forum :p I normally expect hate from PSD users... so I expected the same from you :facepalm: My bad.

And I'm comparing them to how they score and their shooting percentages, not talent wise... I thought that was obvious lol.

And of course my post gets deleted...

All good bro

coryd238
07-11-2011, 02:30 AM
:laugh:

That could be the most pathetic thing I've ever read on this site.

So tell me then, how does Durant get to the free throw line then?

Half of the time it's by the sweep through.

coryd238
07-11-2011, 02:31 AM
All good bro

You changed your avatar, right? I think that messed with me haha.

Baller1
07-11-2011, 02:35 AM
Exactly, when teams take away that how do those players do? In late game situations, when the game is on the line and the defense buckles down they're not letting you off those easy screens and that's a FACT , don't even try to dispute that.

In late game situations you need someone that can create their own offense, and Melo's that guy.

So since Melo is better than Durant for the last 5 seconds of the game, he's a better player? Nice logic.


Half of the time it's by the sweep through.

So Durant performs the rip move right after he comes off of a screen? No, he uses it in face up situations, usually isolations. That negates your argument there.

And then on top of that, "the other half" of the fouls he draws are from dribble penetration and perfecting the art of drawing contact and getting to the line.

Sadds The Gr8
07-11-2011, 02:35 AM
Exactly, when teams take away that how do those players do? In late game situations, when the game is on the line and the defense buckles down they're not letting you off those easy screens and that's a FACT , don't even try to dispute that.

In late game situations you need someone that can create their own offense, and Melo's that guy.

Durant can't create his own offense? tell me how he leads the league in FT attempts then? That "IF" stuff is garbage man...u can use that under so many circumstances...it's stupid.

If i have to choose between a jack of all trades guy who isn't as efficient (Melo) and a guy who does the same thing but scores much more efficiently, i'm taking the guy who does the same thing.

THE GIPPER
07-11-2011, 02:36 AM
You changed your avatar, right? I think that messed with me haha.

Haha ya cuz when you responded I was like, what the heck I know this guy from the nuggets forum. All good tho no worries.

coryd238
07-11-2011, 02:43 AM
Durant can't create his own offense? tell me how he leads the league in FT attempts then? That "IF" stuff is garbage man...u can use that under so many circumstances...it's stupid.

If i have to choose between a jack of all trades guy who isn't as efficient (Melo) and a guy who does the same thing but scores much more efficiently, i'm taking the guy who does the same thing.

So Ray Allen and Reggie Miller are better than Kobe? :eyebrow: Nice logic. Melo and Durant are put in completely different situations. Melo has always been the undisputed #1 scorer until he came to New York. Durant has had Westbrook to share the load and take attention off him. Stop using stats as your main argument, damn.


So since Melo is better than Durant for the last 5 seconds of the game, he's a better player? Nice logic.



So Durant performs the rip move right after he comes off of a screen? No, he uses it in face up situations, usually isolations. That negates your argument there.

And then on top of that, "the other half" of the fouls he draws are from dribble penetration and perfecting the art of drawing contact and getting to the line.

Clutch is the most important point in the game. And yes, he gets open from the screens, which is how he's able to pull the sweep through. He hardly posts up.

And so you're saying only half are from driving? That's great, cause that's where all of Melo's come from ;)


Haha ya cuz when you responded I was like, what the heck I know this guy from the nuggets forum. All good tho no worries.

Haha, for sure. It's cool :cool:

meloman1592
07-11-2011, 02:47 AM
Even you should know.......Marion stoped Melo countless number of times....The only time he didn't is when Afflolo had the buzzer-beater.......So us both being Mavs fans....I must disagree with you.

Because he stopped him 3 yrs ago in the playoffs right? When you guys won that series right? And the afflalo game winner game, i'd like to remend you melo had 42 in that game. Great job stopping him

Baller1
07-11-2011, 02:48 AM
So Ray Allen and Reggie Miller are better than Kobe? :eyebrow: Nice logic. Melo and Durant are put in completely different situations. Melo has always been the undisputed #1 scorer until he came to New York. Durant has had Westbrook to share the load and take attention off him. Stop using stats as your main argument, damn.



Clutch is the most important point in the game. And yes, he gets open from the screens, which is how he's able to pull the sweep through. He hardly posts up.

And so you're saying only half are from driving? That's great, cause that's where all of Melo's come from ;)



Haha, for sure. It's cool :cool:

If you're up by double digits, clutch doesn't matter.

Durant is BETTER. Stats prove it.

Facts will always be more valuable than opinion, sorry.

coryd238
07-11-2011, 02:52 AM
If you're up by double digits, clutch doesn't matter.

Durant is BETTER. Stats prove it.

Facts will always be more valuable than opinion, sorry.

Stats aren't the end all, be all. You have to watch the ****ing games, and that's something you don't understand. There's certain situations that stats can't track.



Because he stopped him 3 yrs ago in the playoffs right? When you guys won that series right? And the afflalo game winner game, i'd like to remend you melo had 42 in that game. Great job stopping him

Thank you for fighting the good fight, man.

If you haven't noticed, even some bitter Nuggets fan still admit Melo's beter.

M.Bibby2.0
07-11-2011, 02:57 AM
Melo is certainly the more versatile scorer, and imo the most versatile in the league. That being said, Durant's physical attributes allow him to shoot the ball more efficiently, - on average. But during playoffs Durant was taken out of the equation several times by smaller defenders, and in such scenarios you'd definitely want Melo.
I like melo better because of all the different ways he can score, but the edge according to statistics goes too Durant.
I wouldn't say either answer is wrong.

coryd238
07-11-2011, 03:01 AM
Melo is certainly the more versatile scorer, and imo the most versatile in the league. That being said, Durant's physical attributes allow him to shoot the ball more efficiently, - on average. But during playoffs Durant was taken out of the equation several times by smaller defenders, and in such scenarios you'd definitely want Melo.
I like melo better because of all the different ways he can score, but the edge according to statistics goes too Durant.
I wouldn't say either answer is wrong.

That's the thing though, Durant can be taken out of games.... Melo can't.

Sadds The Gr8
07-11-2011, 03:08 AM
So Ray Allen and Reggie Miller are better than Kobe? :eyebrow: Nice logic. Melo and Durant are put in completely different situations. Melo has always been the undisputed #1 scorer until he came to New York. Durant has had Westbrook to share the load and take attention off him. Stop using stats as your main argument, damn.

did u miss the efficient part? :facepalm:

coryd238
07-11-2011, 03:19 AM
did u miss the efficient part? :facepalm:

Umm, no. Ray Allen was more efficient than Kobe... check. Durant is more efficient because he has another elite scorer on his team... check. I don't see the problem here?

and "stop using stats as your main argument" lol @ you for not understanding that.

Baller1
07-11-2011, 03:37 AM
Stats aren't the end all, be all. You have to watch the ****ing games, and that's something you don't understand. There's certain situations that stats can't track.




Thank you for fighting the good fight, man.

If you haven't noticed, even some bitter Nuggets fan still admit Melo's beter.

You're right, you got me. I never watch games, I just like looking at lots of numbers for the **** of it.

coryd238
07-11-2011, 03:45 AM
You're right, you got me. I never watch games, I just like looking at lots of numbers for the **** of it.

Well it certainly seems like it, since you're basing all of your arguments off numbers.

gsgs49
07-11-2011, 06:52 AM
Because he stopped him 3 yrs ago in the playoffs right? When you guys won that series right? And the afflalo game winner game,i'd like to remend you melo had 42 in that game. Great job stopping him

A lot of wrong things in this post.
First of all the nuggets-mavericks series was two years ago,in 2009.
Shawn Marion wasn't a maverick then,his first season with the mavericks was 2009-2010.
And he said that the only time Marion didn't stopped him was when Affalo made the game winner,it looks that you misunderstood him.
And Marion as a maverick stopped Carmelo more than once,marj is right about that.
16 points on 5-19 shooting and 10 points on 3-16 shooting in 2010.18 points on 5-15 shooting last year

JEDean89
07-11-2011, 08:11 AM
Melo is definetly the guy you want on your team. I freaking love the durantula but melo is a better player. Durant has had something melo has not, and that is another mvp candidate to play along side. Now that Melo is in New York we will see what he can do no excuses. If New York can get a pg like steve nash or chris paul who can focus on distributing then melo and amare both are gonna have crazy years. Melo has never had another player to demand the double team off him and will go crazy with a healthy chauncey and amare in 2011-2012.

wannabGM
07-11-2011, 08:32 AM
I wouldn't take LeBron over Durant, or 'Melo. If LeBron gets his head straight, and develops more of a go-to mid range game, then he becomes not only the best SF in the NBA, but best player in my opinion. I see 'Melo as third best, and depending on your team's needs, maybe lower on the list.

With 'Melo:
1) Is he a better crunch time option than Paul Pierce? Not really to me.
2) Was he even the best player the Knicks could have gotten to improve their team? Not necessarily. It can be argued that Andre Iguodala, despite not being as talented and not being a primary offensive option in the half court offense, would have fit the Knicks team needs better at a lesser trading price.
Amare is getting older and has an injury history so you never know when his game might start to fall off. So, in 'Melo it can be argued the Knicks have a post-Amare franchise leading talent if that happens. But they might have been more of an actual contender for the championship this past year and next if they traded for Iguodala instead. He would have been a better matchup against Paul Pierce in the playoffs (something they needed). He defends at the SF position better than any player in the NBA(something the Knicks needed). He would have been setting up Fields, Amare, and company for buckets instead of hogging attempts(better fit than 'Melo into what they already had). The icing on the cake is that the Knicks wouldn't have had to pony up as much of a King's ransom in acquiring Iguodala.

Antipod
07-11-2011, 08:48 AM
The # 2 and 3 are more than clear ... the interesting part will start with the 4th and down .

MiamiWadeCounty
07-11-2011, 08:53 AM
Pierce is 4th quite easily imo.

Da Knicks
07-11-2011, 09:20 AM
It should of being Melo but oh well guess Melo will have to spank lbj and kd when he faces them. If there is a season many people will be second guessing themselves.

save the knicks
07-11-2011, 09:23 AM
A full year in NY and Melo will be right at lebrons heels

save the knicks
07-11-2011, 09:25 AM
I wouldn't take LeBron over Durant, or 'Melo. If LeBron gets his head straight, and develops more of a go-to mid range game, then he becomes not only the best SF in the NBA, but best player in my opinion. I see 'Melo as third best, and depending on your team's needs, maybe lower on the list.

With 'Melo:
1) Is he a better crunch time option than Paul Pierce? Not really to me.
2) Was he even the best player the Knicks could have gotten to improve their team? Not necessarily. It can be argued that Andre Iguodala, despite not being as talented and not being a primary offensive option in the half court offense, would have fit the Knicks team needs better at a lesser trading price.
Amare is getting older and has an injury history so you never know when his game might start to fall off. So, in 'Melo it can be argued the Knicks have a post-Amare franchise leading talent if that happens. But they might have been more of an actual contender for the championship this past year and next if they traded for Iguodala instead. He would have been a better matchup against Paul Pierce in the playoffs (something they needed). He defends at the SF position better than any player in the NBA(something the Knicks needed). He would have been setting up Fields, Amare, and company for buckets instead of hogging attempts(better fit than 'Melo into what they already had). The icing on the cake is that the Knicks wouldn't have had to pony up as much of a King's ransom in acquiring Iguodala.


NY always pays a tax when it comes to trades

Da Knicks
07-11-2011, 09:28 AM
I wouldn't take LeBron over Durant, or 'Melo. If LeBron gets his head straight, and develops more of a go-to mid range game, then he becomes not only the best SF in the NBA, but best player in my opinion. I see 'Melo as third best, and depending on your team's needs, maybe lower on the list.

With 'Melo:
1) Is he a better crunch time option than Paul Pierce? Not really to me.
2) Was he even the best player the Knicks could have gotten to improve their team? Not necessarily. It can be argued that Andre Iguodala, despite not being as talented and not being a primary offensive option in the half court offense, would have fit the Knicks team needs better at a lesser trading price.
Amare is getting older and has an injury history so you never know when his game might start to fall off. So, in 'Melo it can be argued the Knicks have a post-Amare franchise leading talent if that happens. But they might have been more of an actual contender for the championship this past year and next if they traded for Iguodala instead. He would have been a better matchup against Paul Pierce in the playoffs (something they needed). He defends at the SF position better than any player in the NBA(something the Knicks needed). He would have been setting up Fields, Amare, and company for buckets instead of hogging attempts(better fit than 'Melo into what they already had). The icing on the cake is that the Knicks wouldn't have had to pony up as much of a King's ransom in acquiring Iguodala.

you really deserve this :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:

juno10
07-11-2011, 09:37 AM
A full year in NY and Melo will be right at lebrons heels

i guess the new york media has a lot of hyping to do cause thats the only way that happens.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
07-11-2011, 09:58 AM
That's the thing though, Durant can be taken out of games.... Melo can't.

lulz

The answer is easily Durant.

ttam68
07-11-2011, 10:34 AM
Poor Iguodala didn't even get one homer vote

Geargo Wallace
07-11-2011, 10:41 AM
so lets just hop to #4...

Swashcuff
07-11-2011, 10:53 AM
its more 50% if anything...josh smith constantly changes from the 3 to 4 depending if collins, pachulia or marvin williams starts...and when bynum was out odom he always played the 4 but when barnes and ron was out and certain lineups odom just plays everything and when some1 plays everything the 3 is usually the position to label which odom has always been listed as because of his skill sets for his length

Dude? Would you like MORE facts? Because I honesty can't believe you can't comprehend that players who START at the PF (Odom started at PF in every game he started excluding the game in which Artest was suspended) and play the VAST majority of their minutes their. They are PFs and have been for the past 3+ seasons. What in that don't you understand?

Lamar Odom last season


Position Min Net Pts Off Def Net48 W L Win%
SF 0% -5 60.5 84.7 -24.2 1 3 25%
PF 65% +402 101.6 94.1 7.5 50 26 65%
C 1% -21 102.6 124.4 -21.8 4 9 30%

Josh Smith last season


Position Min Net Pts Off Def Net48 W L Win%
SF 11% +39 89.9 85.7 4.2 16 18 47%
PF 51% -1 96.1 96.1 .0 39 34 53%
C 4% +33 99.3 89.7 9.6 16 11 59%

I know however despite me posting facts you are not going to take them into consideration.

Swashcuff
07-11-2011, 10:58 AM
Umm, NO I've been saying 2009-2010 this whole time. Maybe you should pay attention. Jesus ****ing christ you guys have no reading comprehension skills. Damn.

What relevence does 2009-2010 have to do with THIS past season. AND again that's a boldface lie Melo was not ranked in the top 7 at any point during the first half of that season.

Swashcuff
07-11-2011, 10:58 AM
Poor Iguodala didn't even get one homer vote

Just goes to show you exactly how reasonable 76ers fans are.

Swashcuff
07-11-2011, 11:10 AM
So Ray Allen and Reggie Miller are better than Kobe? :eyebrow: Nice logic. Melo and Durant are put in completely different situations. Melo has always been the undisputed #1 scorer until he came to New York. Durant has had Westbrook to share the load and take attention off him. Stop using stats as your main argument, damn.

What kind of GARBAGE is this? Melo had Allen Iverson (the efficient version) who was a MUCH better scorer than Russell Westbrook. You keep posting GARBAGE.


Clutch is the most important point in the game. And yes, he gets open from the screens, which is how he's able to pull the sweep through. He hardly posts up.

And so you're saying only half are from driving? That's great, cause that's where all of Melo's come from ;)

Clutch is most important? Really. I never heard a single person say clutch wins championships.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-11-2011, 11:48 AM
I'm an unbiased Knicks fan who realizes Durant is better than Melo. However, I will say that Melo was much better when he came to NY and certainly if he's able to play that way for a full season could make it an interesting argument.

And as a Knicks fan, I thought he played pretty decent defense when he came over to NY. But his synergy numbers were atrocious for the year. Even his Knicks numbers were awful. He was 331st overall in Denver on points per possession and 306th in ppp on isos. In NY, despite it seeming like he tried harder and played better, it wasn't really reflected in the numbers. He was 457th overall in ppp and 229th in ppp on isos. Durant was actually much better- 143rd overall in ppp and 78th on isos. KD's synergy numbers actually weren't too bad. In counterpart PER, Durant was also better than Melo (11.7 for Durant, 12.3 for Melo). Both were good in that area though. Melo's defensive +/- numbers were better though.

Numbers wise, it's almost inarguable that Durant was better defensively last year. It certainly looked like Melo improved on his defense last year when he came to NY but the numbers don't really point to that.

Offensively, Melo might have the more diverse game but unless he actually shows those abilities through his efficiency, it won't matter. I'd compiled a list of top 10 players in various all-in-one metrics in this thread: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=627188

Durant was in the top 10 in each of them (except for the joke of a stat called Wins Produced), Melo wasn't in the top 10 in any of them. If you're a fan of advanced stats, I don't see how you can argue Melo. If he can duplicate what he did in NY though for a full season, it should become an interesting debate. For now, based on the last couple years, it really isn't one.

Gibby23
07-11-2011, 11:49 AM
Durant

Swashcuff
07-11-2011, 11:53 AM
I'm an unbiased Knicks fan who realizes Durant is better than Melo. However, I will say that Melo was much better when he came to NY and certainly if he's able to play that way for a full season could make it an interesting argument.

And as a Knicks fan, I thought he played pretty decent defense when he came over to NY. But his synergy numbers were atrocious for the year. Even his Knicks numbers were awful. He was 331st overall in Denver on points per possession and 306th in ppp on isos. In NY, despite it seeming like he tried harder and played better, it wasn't really reflected in the numbers. He was 457th overall in ppp and 229th in ppp on isos. Durant was actually much better- 143rd overall in ppp and 78th on isos. KD's synergy numbers actually weren't too bad. In counterpart PER, Durant was also better than Melo (11.7 for Durant, 12.3 for Melo). Both were good in that area though. Melo's defensive +/- numbers were better though.

Numbers wise, it's almost inarguable that Durant was better defensively last year. It certainly looked like Melo improved on his defense last year when he came to NY but the numbers don't really point to that.

Offensively, Melo might have the more diverse game but unless he actually shows those abilities through his efficiency, it won't matter. I'd compiled a list of top 10 players in various all-in-one metrics in this thread: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=627188

Durant was in the top 10 in each of them, Melo wasn't in the top 10 in any of them. If you're a fan of advanced stats, I don't see how you can argue Melo. If he can duplicate what he did in NY though for a full season, it should become an interesting debate. For now, based on the last couple years, it really isn't one.

Great logical post as expected from a poster such as yourself.

IF Melo can remain motivated (IMO a motivated Carmelo Anthony has the ability to be the best or at worst top 3 player in the league) the Knicks will go really far. If he can mirror his NY production of last and his commitment on the defensive end of the floor the Knicks will be a force to be reckoned with.

Key thing with Melo is to me is his MOTIVATION.

kobelakersnba
07-11-2011, 01:14 PM
uhh how many scoring titles does melo have??? exactly...

Swashcuff
07-11-2011, 01:17 PM
uhh how many scoring titles does melo have??? exactly...

Allen Iverson has 4 scoring titles and Kobe Bryant has 2 does that mean he's a better scorer than Kobe?

This can't be used as a reason as to why KD is better.

TheRunKiller
07-11-2011, 01:24 PM
uhh how many scoring titles does melo have??? exactly...

what does that have to do with anything?

kobelakersnba
07-11-2011, 01:25 PM
Allen Iverson has 4 scoring titles and Kobe Bryant has 2 does that mean he's a better scorer than Kobe?

This can't be used as a reason as to why KD is better.

:facepalm: iverson didn't have shaq on his teams, and iverson took way more shots and played a lot of mins to win his scoring titles. If kobe played with no prime shaq, he would more scoring titles.

And why you bring them up, I was talkin about kd and melo lol

kobelakersnba
07-11-2011, 01:26 PM
and if you dont like scoring titles to measure whos better just look at the all nba teams. kd made the 1st team in 2011 while melo didn't make any and never has for his career...ROFL

Swashcuff
07-11-2011, 01:35 PM
:facepalm: iverson didn't have shaq on his teams, and iverson took way more shots and played a lot of mins to win his scoring titles. If kobe played with no prime shaq, he would more scoring titles.

And why you bring them up, I was talkin about kd and melo lol

Its a baseless argument in all honesty. It cannot be used independently no matter who is being debated.

Swashcuff
07-11-2011, 01:36 PM
and if you dont like scoring titles to measure whos better just look at the all nba teams. kd made the 1st team in 2011 while melo didn't make any and never has for his career...ROFL

Kobe made the 1st team this year ahead of Wade and Wade was voted easily at #1 in the SG thread. Don't understand your point.