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View Full Version : Forbes report shows NBA lost $1.8 BILLION over the last 6 years



metsfan4ever
07-07-2011, 01:47 AM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/feed/2010-10/nba-labor/story/new-forbes-report-shows-nba-lost-18-billion-over-last-six-years?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Damnnnnn

FriedTofuz
07-07-2011, 02:08 AM
Thats all part of the buisness, you will make revenue, and you may suffer net loss.

waveycrockett
07-07-2011, 02:42 AM
Thats all part of the buisness, you will make revenue, and you may suffer net loss.
lol maybe for a start up company not the freaking NBA. Players got to bite the bullet.

HouRealCoach
07-07-2011, 02:47 AM
How did they lose money?

LakersIn5
07-07-2011, 02:50 AM
its the owners fault. they didnt manage their business properly. and they agreed on the then new CBA in the lockout of 1998

Dash
07-07-2011, 02:57 AM
It's LeBrons fault.
jk

More-Than-Most
07-07-2011, 03:04 AM
Thats all part of the buisness, you will make revenue, and you may suffer net loss.

Yes a business that will end up bankrupt. This is bad business any way you cut it and a drastic change is on its way. Now I understand why the nba is heading for a lockout. You cant continually lose money year after year and expect everything to be butterflies and rainbows. This is over a span so its not something new... Its now a trend and something has to be done all around. This is all on the owners and the commissioner of the sport... If they have been losing this much money then they should not have kept spending the way they have. What an awful awful business.

tyfreaks brotha
07-07-2011, 04:48 AM
Is this even legit or some ******** article were going to believe? No matter what the NBA is bringing iin millions of fans... It's because the damn heat :pity:

MiamiBoy77
07-07-2011, 05:22 AM
Is this even legit or some ******** article were going to believe? No matter what the NBA is bringing iin millions of fans... It's because the damn heat :pity:

please tell me ur joking....

Apophis
07-07-2011, 06:02 AM
ouch.. Thats alot of money lost...

TRF929
07-07-2011, 06:57 AM
That sux, players are going to have to give in on this next CBA. The thing that may hurt the owners is how worldwide bball is. With players going overseas to play and get payed, will hurt the NBA. NBA players have more options than the NFL players, so I see this battle going well into the season.

3ballbomber
07-07-2011, 09:18 AM
A big middle finger to Stern, the Owners & the nba. Players should go sign in Europe and then we'll see who will be backtracking & second thinking their proposals.

AddiX
07-07-2011, 09:38 AM
This is ********. Forbes doesmt have the records and therefore they have no clue.

And why do people keep saying the NBA is losing money. Some tea,s are losing money, not everyone.

And when will you dipshits start to read these articles and understand them. This article clearly states the info was giving to Forbes by someone close to the NBA labor negotiations.

This is 99% a bunch of garbage stats stern is probably handing over to make the league look good, most likely in retaliation to recent articles showing they aren't losing what they say, and showing NBA uses garbage accounting to make crap up.

asandhu23
07-07-2011, 09:42 AM
This is Forbes we are talking, not some ****** fox news article where they don't fact check.

knicksfan42
07-07-2011, 09:43 AM
A big middle finger to Stern, the Owners & the nba. Players should go sign in Europe and then we'll see who will be backtracking & second thinking their proposals.

They can't this was thoroughly discussed in another thread.

Jeffy25
07-07-2011, 09:52 AM
How did they lose money?

http://deadspin.com/5816870/exclusive-how-and-why-an-nba-team-makes-a-7-million-profit-look-like-a-28-million-loss

dnewguy
07-07-2011, 09:55 AM
Joe Johnson and Rashad Lewis are spending that lost revenue.

Bubba313
07-07-2011, 10:09 AM
Don't believe everything you read guys, most of those losses you see are incurred through depreciation... or how the franchise loses value each and every year after its purchase.

What's wrong with this is that the franchises are not losing value because they are being sold at a higher rate than they are worth

I'm guessing Stern called up Forbes and asked them to include this instead of the operating income that it usually uses just to contradict the NY Times article.

Southsideheat
07-07-2011, 10:16 AM
When are people going to realize that this isn't a Players vs. Owners issue. It's a basketball issue, the system is broken and it needs to change. Both players and owners will have to make big concessions for the system to work. And yes, losing a season may be the only way to fix it.

desertlakeshow
07-07-2011, 10:45 AM
There is nothing wrong with the system. This article is a load of crap and so is this lockout.

The owners are using cooked books to make it look like a huge loss to make great gains with the players on money. All of this in preparation for the new television contracts that are going to be signed.

If they knock the players down now they stand to make obscene amounts of money on the new TV contracts.

Bwii
07-07-2011, 11:06 AM
I'm gonna get ripped for this but the league needs contraction. The NBA cannot sustain in places like Milwauke and Cleveland the way the NFL does the NBAs ecenomic model is broken

NYY 26 to 7
07-07-2011, 11:10 AM
This is ********. Forbes doesmt have the records and therefore they have no clue.

And why do people keep saying the NBA is losing money. Some tea,s are losing money, not everyone.
And when will you dipshits start to read these articles and understand them. This article clearly states the info was giving to Forbes by someone close to the NBA labor negotiations.

This is 99% a bunch of garbage stats stern is probably handing over to make the league look good, most likely in retaliation to recent articles showing they aren't losing what they say, and showing NBA uses garbage accounting to make crap up.

Even the player have recognized that the losses for the NBA are at about 200 million for the last year alone. Yes some teams make money but 22 have lost money so imagine how much they are losing to have the NBA as a whole to be at a net loss of $200+ million. The NBA owners claim 300 mill which the players dispute but either way it is alot of money every year. Why are people acting like this is somehow the owners fault and coming up with conspiracy theories. This post is pretty awful and at least recognize that both players and management have admitted the NBA as a business is over losing money.

To answer another question on why this is happening - because players make too much money and have zero risk. Also stars will never go play in Europe because they would take a way bigger pay cut. The European game isn't nearly supported the way the NBA is here. When a business is losing money you have to cut staff (players) and if you can't cut staff (would require contraction) then you must cut wages.

llemon
07-07-2011, 11:17 AM
How did they lose money?

They misplaced it

llemon
07-07-2011, 11:19 AM
Don't believe everything you read guys, most of those losses you see are incurred through depreciation... or how the franchise loses value each and every year after its purchase.

What's wrong with this is that the franchises are not losing value because they are being sold at a higher rate than they are worth

I'm guessing Stern called up Forbes and asked them to include this instead of the operating income that it usually uses just to contradict the NY Times article.

They depreciate the players too, if you can believe that.

knicksfan42
07-07-2011, 11:25 AM
Even the players have recognized that the losses for the NBA are at about 200 million for the last year alone. Yes some teams make money but 22 have lost money so imagine how much they are losing to have the NBA as a whole to be at a net loss of $200+ million. The NBA owners claim 300 mill which the players dispute but either way it is alot of money every year. Why are people acting like this is somehow the owners fault and coming up with conspiracy theories. This post is pretty awful and at least recognize that both players and management have admitted the NBA as a business is over losing money.

To answer another question on why this is happening - because players make too much money and have zero risk. Also stars will never go play in Europe because they would take a way bigger pay cut. The European game isn't nearly supported the way the NBA is here. When a business is losing money you have to cut staff (players) and if you can't cut staff (would require contraction) then you must cut wages.

Yep the players already conceded to the fact that the NBA is losing money, they just don't agree on how much.

ChaseHamels
07-07-2011, 11:37 AM
This is ********. Forbes doesmt have the records and therefore they have no clue.

And why do people keep saying the NBA is losing money. Some tea,s are losing money, not everyone.

And when will you dipshits start to read these articles and understand them. This article clearly states the info was giving to Forbes by someone close to the NBA labor negotiations.

This is 99% a bunch of garbage stats stern is probably handing over to make the league look good, most likely in retaliation to recent articles showing they aren't losing what they say, and showing NBA uses garbage accounting to make crap up.

Oh the IRONY.... only on the NBA forums would this type of garbage be posted.

unwantedplayer
07-07-2011, 11:52 AM
Oh the IRONY.... only on the NBA forums would this type of garbage be posted.

That's a coincidental situation, not ironic situation. Get your facts straight.

Raoul Duke
07-07-2011, 11:53 AM
I don't think we'll ever know how much of the reported losses are legit for labor negotiations and how much are caused by wreckless owners and management staff along with creative accounting, but whatever. Noone is arguing the fact that the league isn't in great shape financially, but how much of that is caused by bad contracts given to marginal players, greedy expansion into markets that can't support franchises and costs for other franchises that were recently bought at peak value?

Southsideheat
07-07-2011, 11:56 AM
If the owners aren't losing money, why are they willing to cancel a season?

ChaseHamels
07-07-2011, 12:04 PM
That's a coincidental situation, not ironic situation. Get your facts straight.

Coincidental is one of the many definitions of ironic. Sigh.

Hawkamania
07-07-2011, 12:12 PM
Even the player have recognized that the losses for the NBA are at about 200 million for the last year alone. Yes some teams make money but 22 have lost money so imagine how much they are losing to have the NBA as a whole to be at a net loss of $200+ million. The NBA owners claim 300 mill which the players dispute but either way it is alot of money every year. Why are people acting like this is somehow the owners fault and coming up with conspiracy theories. This post is pretty awful and at least recognize that both players and management have admitted the NBA as a business is over losing money.

To answer another question on why this is happening - because players make too much money and have zero risk. Also stars will never go play in Europe because they would take a way bigger pay cut. The European game isn't nearly supported the way the NBA is here. When a business is losing money you have to cut staff (players) and if you can't cut staff (would require contraction) then you must cut wages.

Completely agree.

DeyAce
07-07-2011, 12:12 PM
stern sucks

KingPosey
07-07-2011, 12:15 PM
Coincidental is one of the many definitions of ironic. Sigh.

not really. They are actually 2 clearly different things. But I still thought there was irony there.

AddiX
07-07-2011, 12:20 PM
Even the player have recognized that the losses for the NBA are at about 200 million for the last year alone. Yes some teams make money but 22 have lost money so imagine how much they are losing to have the NBA as a whole to be at a net loss of $200+ million. The NBA owners claim 300 mill which the players dispute but either way it is alot of money every year. Why are people acting like this is somehow the owners fault and coming up with conspiracy theories. This post is pretty awful and at least recognize that both players and management have admitted the NBA as a business is over losing money.

To answer another question on why this is happening - because players make too much money and have zero risk. Also stars will never go play in Europe because they would take a way bigger pay cut. The European game isn't nearly supported the way the NBA is here. When a business is losing money you have to cut staff (players) and if you can't cut staff (would require contraction) then you must cut wages.

Teams are definitely losing money, but knocking down the salary cap a few million doesn't change a damn thing. Most of the teas losing money aren't spending big anyway.

The clippers have been a profitable company year after year even when they sucked. Why is that? Because they know what they are doing financially.

Meanwhile in Minnesota, they have a coach and gm who hate each other, a roster who has no clue who is staying or going, and coach still on the pay sheet who won't be there, and they told there fans before the season started that don't be surprised when we suck. And it's supposed to be a mystery why they don't sell tickets?

Franchises run on there operational choices. It's not the NBAs fault or players fault if they don't know how to operate in the markets they chose to be in. It's like opening up a mcdonalds franchise and blaming mcdonalds and the employees for not making a profit. Those are management problems.

BSplaya2121
07-07-2011, 12:28 PM
Forbes had just released an article (which I have no llnk for) saying that the NBA is actually making money but because of the GAAP or generally accepted accountiing principles. The NBA teams were allowed to write off the players as depreciation over time. Now im no accountant but the way I understood it was that every year they were allowed to with each new contract, write off most of it up front and then depreciate it with smaller amounts over time rather than using straight line depreciation which is taking an average year by year basis of each salary. So a team like the heat would possibly be able to write off 300 million dollars legally for their 3 max's and show a huge loss even though they are paying their max contracts 15-18mil this year for no more than 55mil per year. So they are showing these massive losses when they might not be losing any money at all. And because the teams don't have to disclose their books, we can't tell. The nba on a whole shows us losses on a whole. They've been showing us yearly averages and "telling us" about losses.

As a matter NBA.com released a statement completely refuting the entitre forbes article. Almost seeming like they were trying to cover up and loose ends. Saying they have no idea where forbes got this information.

I don't have any links and im no accoutant but this seems like it is a possibility. Is there anyone out there that can post links or elaborate on this?

daleja424
07-07-2011, 12:32 PM
I find these numbers very fishy. Coming out of the last CBA the owners were thrilled and laimed they won the negotiations. Since then the NBA has grown tremendously. You are telling me that the NBA agreed to a deal that would lose them billions of dollars ten years ago and walked away from it smiling. NO CHANCE!

MickeyMgl
07-07-2011, 12:52 PM
Is this even legit or some ******** article were going to believe? No matter what the NBA is bringing iin millions of fans...

Yeah, um.... Forbes is pretty legit.

Southsideheat
07-07-2011, 12:54 PM
There is a difference between what you report to the IRS, and what your actual income/loss is.

Muttman73
07-07-2011, 12:59 PM
Either way, the NBA is ****ed

NYY 26 to 7
07-07-2011, 01:21 PM
I don't think we'll ever know how much of the reported losses are legit for labor negotiations and how much are caused by wreckless owners and management staff along with creative accounting, but whatever. Noone is arguing the fact that the league isn't in great shape financially, but how much of that is caused by bad contracts given to marginal players, greedy expansion into markets that can't support franchises and costs for other franchises that were recently bought at peak value?

Some on here have argued for weeks that the owners are secretly making lots of money which just isn't true. When it comes down to it this is the owners business and they have all the risk of loss that goes with that. Is it in part because of some bad decisions - yes of course I think any fan could have told you at the time that Eddy Curry was an awful deal and other deals much like it with similar red flags. Is it in part because of the enconomy the last 4 years or so? Yes. I think one of the biggest things you mentioned is expansion and yea that has really hurt the leagues product and profitability. Lots of us (including me at the time) criticized LeBron when he said the league should contract to have more super teams but he is actually on with that (although I don't think he was speaking from a financial standpoint). Better teams in more lucrative markets - if small markets don't like it well you should be showing up to games then and maybe your team would make a profit.

Shmontaine
07-07-2011, 01:22 PM
some of you are ridiculous...

the economy has struggled since 1998, not sure if anyone noticed... the players have made ever increasing money while the league has plateaued, and people wonder why the owners are willing to lose a season?? it's better to make no money at all than to continue to lose money...

the owners aren't the ones who haven't lived up to their end of the bargain, they've paid these players a ton of money to turn their franchise around... these players were supposed to produce and bring fans to the small markets... JJ?? where has he been?? Gilbert?? MIA... of course the players are going to take the money, everyone here would... the point is, their lack of production is what makes the contracts bad, and hurts the league... since these contracts are guaranteed, there's no incentive for the players to produce once they've signed (unless of course, they feel the need to live up to the obligation that comes with an enormous contract)...

maybe all player contract's should be performance based, or completely profit shared... if the team makes no money, neither do the players... hell, they are the TEAM as most people here like to point out... they bring in the fans, or turn them away... if the team sucks, everyone involved in the sucking should lose...

RaiderLakersA's
07-07-2011, 01:28 PM
I'm gonna get ripped for this but the league needs contraction. The NBA cannot sustain in places like Milwauke and Cleveland the way the NFL does the NBAs economic model is broken

I've been in favor of contraction ever since the debate raged back in the 90's that the talent pool was severely diluted and it showed on the floor. Wherever a team is not financially sustainable shut it down and move on. The combination of questionable talent and poor revenues is a correlation that has gone too long ignored.

NYY 26 to 7
07-07-2011, 01:31 PM
Teams are definitely losing money, but knocking down the salary cap a few million doesn't change a damn thing. Most of the teas losing money aren't spending big anyway.

The clippers have been a profitable company year after year even when they sucked. Why is that? Because they know what they are doing financially.

Meanwhile in Minnesota, they have a coach and gm who hate each other, a roster who has no clue who is staying or going, and coach still on the pay sheet who won't be there, and they told there fans before the season started that don't be surprised when we suck. And it's supposed to be a mystery why they don't sell tickets?

Franchises run on there operational choices. It's not the NBAs fault or players fault if they don't know how to operate in the markets they chose to be in. It's like opening up a mcdonalds franchise and blaming mcdonalds and the employees for not making a profit. Those are management problems.

Those are very good points and I agree there have been some bad decisions. The Clips and our team the Knicks have been horribly mismanaged as well by gms and more importantly god awful owners. I wish we could fire owners but we can't. I do disagree that cutting salary won't help their losses because it is by far every organizations largest expense and they have to look at it - but like we seem to agree on they should instead just layoff employees (contract teams). The problem is player don't want this either because that means less jobs for the union and they would never accept it. You think the LA teams, NY, CHI, Boston, and some of the other larger markets wouldn't love that? They could spend more have better players and product and make way more money.

Raoul Duke
07-07-2011, 01:31 PM
Some on here have argued for weeks that the owners are secretly making lots of money which just isn't true. When it comes down to it this is the owners business and they have all the risk of loss that goes with that. Is it in part because of some bad decisions - yes of course I think any fan could have told you at the time that Eddy Curry was an awful deal and other deals much like it with similar red flags. Is it in part because of the enconomy the last 4 years or so? Yes. I think one of the biggest things you mentioned is expansion and yea that has really hurt the leagues product and profitability. Lots of us (including me at the time) criticized LeBron when he said the league should contract to have more super teams but he is actually on with that (although I don't think he was speaking from a financial standpoint). Better teams in more lucrative markets - if small markets don't like it well you should be showing up to games then and maybe your team would make a profit.

That is just a laundry list of really bad, simplistic arguments.

I've never argued that the NBA isn't losing money, I've just asked how much of that is due to the expansion teams, the obviously horrendous contracts, relocation fees, loans from cities to build arenas, costs of the team you bought two years ago but expect to be making a killing off of regardless of purchase price, etc. My guess is that those things account for a good deal of the lost revenue, and none of that is the fault of the players.

Also, why the **** should fans in small market areas feel obligated to spend their money on a product that isn't up to par? It isn't my job to support a poorly run franchise, and even if I do feel some sense of loyalty to my team, there is a limit on that ****. Like say two years? I can stand two years of sucking donkey balls before I just lose interest and these guys have to earn it back.

tyfreaks brotha
07-07-2011, 01:47 PM
please tell me ur joking....
Obviously

This is ********. Forbes doesmt have the records and therefore they have no clue.

And why do people keep saying the NBA is losing money. Some tea,s are losing money, not everyone.

And when will you dipshits start to read these articles and understand them. This article clearly states the info was giving to Forbes by someone close to the NBA labor negotiations.

This is 99% a bunch of garbage stats stern is probably handing over to make the league look good, most likely in retaliation to recent articles showing they aren't losing what they say, and showing NBA uses garbage accounting to make crap up.
This

stern sucks
And this

I find these numbers very fishy. Coming out of the last CBA the owners were thrilled and laimed they won the negotiations. Since then the NBA has grown tremendously. You are telling me that the NBA agreed to a deal that would lose them billions of dollars ten years ago and walked away from it smiling. NO CHANCE!

And this to. Obviously it's strange. I call it ********. They wouldn't have been so damn happy to lose this much money..

BigCityofDreams
07-07-2011, 01:50 PM
I find these numbers very fishy. Coming out of the last CBA the owners were thrilled and laimed they won the negotiations. Since then the NBA has grown tremendously. You are telling me that the NBA agreed to a deal that would lose them billions of dollars ten years ago and walked away from it smiling. NO CHANCE!

Colin Cowherd said it best and I'm paraphrasing: I'm not doubting the fact that teams lost money and changes need to be made but for me to believe the league is losing the amount of money that they claimed means that David Stern a smart guy got worked in the last deal. David Stern doesn't get worked for anything. He doesn't get worked even when he's ordering lunch.

BSplaya2121
07-07-2011, 01:53 PM
some of you are ridiculous...

the economy has struggled since 1998, not sure if anyone noticed... the players have made ever increasing money while the league has plateaued, and people wonder why the owners are willing to lose a season?? it's better to make no money at all than to continue to lose money...

the owners aren't the ones who haven't lived up to their end of the bargain, they've paid these players a ton of money to turn their franchise around... these players were supposed to produce and bring fans to the small markets... JJ?? where has he been?? Gilbert?? MIA... of course the players are going to take the money, everyone here would... the point is, their lack of production is what makes the contracts bad, and hurts the league... since these contracts are guaranteed, there's no incentive for the players to produce once they've signed (unless of course, they feel the need to live up to the obligation that comes with an enormous contract)...

maybe all player contract's should be performance based, or completely profit shared... if the team makes no money, neither do the players... hell, they are the TEAM as most people here like to point out... they bring in the fans, or turn them away... if the team sucks, everyone involved in the sucking should lose...

That is an extremely simplistic view and id like to believe that.... but there is no way in 1998 that the owners were thrilled with the CBA just to realize that they'd be losing millions 10 years later.... I have a feeling they took the future into consideration.

ManRam
07-07-2011, 01:55 PM
Just another reason why everyone totally siding 100% with the players is just flat out wrong...

THE MTL
07-07-2011, 01:59 PM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/feed/2010-10/nba-labor/story/new-forbes-report-shows-nba-lost-18-billion-over-last-six-years?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Damnnnnn

Didnt the NBA disprove Forbes in the last article? LOL.

Anyway, owners lost money because of themselves. Guys like Jermaine O'Neal, Kevin Garnett, Rashard Lewis got 120 million dollar deals. Eddy Curry got 11 mil per. Tyson Chandler just got off of 12 mil per. Everyone outside of Lebron, DWade, Felton, and Bosh were overpaid in 2010 free agency.

PhillyFaninLA
07-07-2011, 02:05 PM
Yes a business that will end up bankrupt. This is bad business any way you cut it and a drastic change is on its way. Now I understand why the nba is heading for a lockout. You cant continually lose money year after year and expect everything to be butterflies and rainbows. This is over a span so its not something new... Its now a trend and something has to be done all around. This is all on the owners and the commissioner of the sport... If they have been losing this much money then they should not have kept spending the way they have. What an awful awful business.



Well said very very few company in the world can survive losing $300 million a year. Few companies can survive doing it once or twice....let alone a 6 year average.

AddiX
07-07-2011, 02:10 PM
I love how people actually think that cutting players pay is going to make bad franchises profitable. After the lockout is done poor teams might be able to cut there salary by a few million dollars.

You think that's going to make a difference when a team like Minnesota is selling tickets for 5$ and it's still empty?

You can buy tickets online for some of these teams for a fcking 1$.

A. These are organizational problems

B. The business cant function where it is and it's time to close shop.

But there are franchises making insanes amt of money who want nothing to do with this lockout, so the idea it's the players fault is ridiculous, when these teams are operating under the same rules.

PhillyFaninLA
07-07-2011, 02:11 PM
Didnt the NBA disprove Forbes in the last article? LOL.

Anyway, owners lost money because of themselves. Guys like Jermaine O'Neal, Kevin Garnett, Rashard Lewis got 120 million dollar deals. Eddy Curry got 11 mil per. Tyson Chandler just got off of 12 mil per. Everyone outside of Lebron, DWade, Felton, and Bosh were overpaid in 2010 free agency.



Forbes is highly credible does substantial fact checking and on things like this are as credible as you get.

If I read on NBA.com this isn't true I still would side with Forbes.

THE MTL
07-07-2011, 02:14 PM
NBA can be smarter about scheduling too. MLB teams play mini series throughout the season, which saves traveling costs and also longer stay a hotel which can get you cheaper rates too.

theheatles
07-07-2011, 02:23 PM
the most fcked up thing is owners having themselves and family members on the payrolls making truckloads money doing absolutely **** and they want players who actually work and are the reason for bringing in the money to pay up...fck that, greedy fcking retards

AddiX
07-07-2011, 02:26 PM
NBA can be smarter about scheduling too. MLB teams play mini series throughout the season, which saves traveling costs and also longer stay a hotel which can get you cheaper rates too.

EXACTLY

The nba's problems is there own business practices of the overall organization and the franchises own fck ups.

A bad move is Pistons had a good team that there fam base loved, they trade away billups, look what happens. That was basketball mistake and a business mistake. Billups was the floor general and the favorite player of the fan base.

A good move is Spurs overpaid for Manu. They knew they overpaid but knew what he meant to San antonio and for tickets sales, that is a smart business decision.

One decision keeps an arena full, the other empties it out for years. Neither are players faults.

NYY 26 to 7
07-07-2011, 02:35 PM
That is just a laundry list of really bad, simplistic arguments.

I've never argued that the NBA isn't losing money, I've just asked how much of that is due to the expansion teams, the obviously horrendous contracts, relocation fees, loans from cities to build arenas, costs of the team you bought two years ago but expect to be making a killing off of regardless of purchase price, etc. My guess is that those things account for a good deal of the lost revenue, and none of that is the fault of the players.

Also, why the **** should fans in small market areas feel obligated to spend their money on a product that isn't up to par? It isn't my job to support a poorly run franchise, and even if I do feel some sense of loyalty to my team, there is a limit on that ****. Like say two years? I can stand two years of sucking donkey balls before I just lose interest and these guys have to earn it back.

First of all I was addressing your questioning of who is saying the NBA isn't losing and I said many on here not you. Also that wasn't a list of arguements (my points are in other posts) that was your points I was agreeing with and adding a little commentary. But yea as I said in other posts there are owners that aren't good but they've also expanded into markets and allowed owners who can't put out a good product. Knicks fans still showed up during the 10 years we "sucked donkey balls" as you so eliquently put it. Dolan is the biggest idiot going but its the New York Knicks and he will always make money. Just owning that piece of real estate (MSG) alone makes the team a profitable investment. Also no one is blaming players for what happened but when a company is failing you don't continue to pay your workers - you have layoffs or contraction as a company to get rid of areas in your company with a negative impact on the bottom line. Players come and go and there is no where else in the world they can make this kind of money and nothing else in the world they can do to make the kind of money they make playing basketball. This lockout is so little to do with the players vs owners - its mostly big market owners vs the struggling small market owners and what to do with their business.

NYY 26 to 7
07-07-2011, 02:42 PM
NBA can be smarter about scheduling too. MLB teams play mini series throughout the season, which saves traveling costs and also longer stay a hotel which can get you cheaper rates too.

Thats saving a nickel when your looking for $100. Your talking a savings of what a few hundred thousand if that. The loss for the NBA is between 200-300 million based on the numbers the players and owners have estimated. I would venture to guess at least 80-90% of the NBA's expense is wages and benefits. So you think they should try and squeeze the 10-20% of expenses rather than look at the larger chunk of expenses which is ultimately player salaries.

Shmontaine
07-07-2011, 02:48 PM
That is an extremely simplistic view and id like to believe that.... but there is no way in 1998 that the owners were thrilled with the CBA just to realize that they'd be losing millions 10 years later.... I have a feeling they took the future into consideration.

the point remains.. the main reason the league is in trouble is BECAUSE THE OWNERS HAVE OVERPAID THE PLAYERS... i don't understand what some of you are saying... the players got a great deal, probably too great a deal... what's wrong with bringing the salaries back down to a reasonable level... NBA players by far make the most out of all pro sports... probably still will after all is said and done...

all the owners did was give the players more than they could afford... those stingy greedy owners... they gave too much money, the bastards... let's berate them and blame them for the current situation... okay...

Raoul Duke
07-07-2011, 02:52 PM
First of all I was addressing your questioning of who is saying the NBA isn't losing and I said many on here not you. Also that wasn't a list of arguements (my points are in other posts) that was your points I was agreeing with and adding a little commentary. But yea as I said in other posts there are owners that aren't good but they've also expanded into markets and allowed owners who can't put out a good product. Knicks fans still showed up during the 10 years we "sucked donkey balls" as you so eliquently put it. Dolan is the biggest idiot going but its the New York Knicks and he will always make money. Just owning that piece of real estate (MSG) alone makes the team a profitable investment. Also no one is blaming players for what happened but when a company is failing you don't continue to pay your workers - you have layoffs or contraction as a company to get rid of areas in your company with a negative impact on the bottom line. Players come and go and there is no where else in the world they can make this kind of money and nothing else in the world they can do to make the kind of money they make playing basketball. This lockout is so little to do with the players vs owners - its mostly big market owners vs the struggling small market owners and what to do with their business.

Sorry, man. I get all worked up sometimes...

I can see your point about the Knicks. There are just a lot less people in and around Detroit, so we don't have as many fans available to fill the arena, y'know? In a really big city, half the basketball fans can turn their backs on the game and theres still enough left to turn a profit.

Shmontaine
07-07-2011, 02:52 PM
i love how no blame gets put on under-performing players... they obviously were wise to accept the money they got, but don't act like this is 100% owner fault here... if these players did what they were paid to do, the league would be in better shape... too many players signed their contracts and never lived up to the expectations... but i guess that the owners fault too... they should have paid guys crap money and expected them to perform at a high level, not the other way around...

NYY 26 to 7
07-07-2011, 02:54 PM
That is an extremely simplistic view and id like to believe that.... but there is no way in 1998 that the owners were thrilled with the CBA just to realize that they'd be losing millions 10 years later.... I have a feeling they took the future into consideration.

You also could say that no, no one noticed a bad economy in 1998 because it was a booming economy. One of the best points in history in fact. You could argue that the government and Federal Reserve should have looked closer and seen the dot com bust and economic crash in 2000 and should have regulated the financial institutions and we wouldn't have had this mess now. That has nothing to do with the NBA though and was well after the last CBA. Michael Jordan had the NBA booming and I'm sure just as the government didn't see it coming or anyone else especially Greenspan - the NBA didn't see it in 1998. SO yea I would say its a pretty different time now.

Shmontaine
07-07-2011, 02:55 PM
the players should be more upset at the other players who's performance deemed them "bad contracts" and therefore hurt the rest of the players chances at the same opportunity to get a big payday... too bad nobody looks at it that way... Gilbert, JO, JJ, etc get a free pass, i guess... good for them for screwing the system...

NYY 26 to 7
07-07-2011, 03:03 PM
Sorry, man. I get all worked up sometimes...

I can see your point about the Knicks. There are just a lot less people in and around Detroit, so we don't have as many fans available to fill the arena, y'know? In a really big city, half the basketball fans can turn their backs on the game and theres still enough left to turn a profit.

Yea I hear you. Your absolutely right New York is huge (curious that there is only one team although soon the Nets will be there too) Its also tough as a fan because you support them through an awful 10 years then we get Melo and Dolan raises prices 49% for next year - which people (mostly the fans who now come back after not being around for 10 years) will pay but I can't afford for many games. Detroit is an interesting/tough situation both basketball wise and economically. I'm very sympathetic to Detroit fans/people because perhaps no one has felt the economic sting like you guys - nor do we fully understand the impact. The city is losing jobs and the population is declining. Then they do an incredible job putting together that team and when it looked like maybe it was the right time to break it up and make changes its like they went half way with it and just killed themselves. They could have traded for some pieces and either rebuilt or extended their run longer.

daleja424
07-07-2011, 03:07 PM
some of you are ridiculous...

the economy has struggled since 1998, not sure if anyone noticed... the players have made ever increasing money while the league has plateaued, and people wonder why the owners are willing to lose a season?? it's better to make no money at all than to continue to lose money...

the owners aren't the ones who haven't lived up to their end of the bargain, they've paid these players a ton of money to turn their franchise around... these players were supposed to produce and bring fans to the small markets... JJ?? where has he been?? Gilbert?? MIA... of course the players are going to take the money, everyone here would... the point is, their lack of production is what makes the contracts bad, and hurts the league... since these contracts are guaranteed, there's no incentive for the players to produce once they've signed (unless of course, they feel the need to live up to the obligation that comes with an enormous contract)...

maybe all player contract's should be performance based, or completely profit shared... if the team makes no money, neither do the players... hell, they are the TEAM as most people here like to point out... they bring in the fans, or turn them away... if the team sucks, everyone involved in the sucking should lose...

Player salaries have been tied very closely with inflation in this new CBA. But operating costs have risen at a level 5 times inflation. The problem is not the players cut... the problem is bad management and misuse of operating funds.

daleja424
07-07-2011, 03:18 PM
the point remains.. the main reason the league is in trouble is BECAUSE THE OWNERS HAVE OVERPAID THE PLAYERS... i don't understand what some of you are saying... the players got a great deal, probably too great a deal... what's wrong with bringing the salaries back down to a reasonable level... NBA players by far make the most out of all pro sports... probably still will after all is said and done...

all the owners did was give the players more than they could afford... those stingy greedy owners... they gave too much money, the bastards... let's berate them and blame them for the current situation... okay...

I disagree strongly. It is not the fact that players get 50% of gross income that is problem... it is how poorly the other 50% is spent that is the big issue here.

The owners want to cut into the players half of the pie to make up for their bad business models. In the past 10 years, players salaries have gone up per team by about 20 million (From high 30 mils to high 50 mils). League wide salaries have gone up by 600 million in the last ten years. In that same time, the league gross income has gone from about 1.5 billion (1999) to 4.4 billion today.

So this year, for example, the NBA grossed 3 billion dollars more than it did in 1999. Of that 3 billion dollar increase... the players saw 600 million of it. So where is the other 2.4 billion dollars? Now the owners are claiming a 300 million dollar loss... so really we should be asking...where did that other 2.7 billion dollars go? If the NBA is truely losing money, it is on the backs of the owners and their mismanagement of billions of dollars every year.

The NBA is failing not b/c the players are overcompensated... but b/c NBA teams are being run by morons... apparently.

jrm2054
07-07-2011, 03:21 PM
Players make way to much they make more then NFL players which makes no sense bc basketball isn't as popular and makes less money. Granted there are less players but still.

daleja424
07-07-2011, 03:25 PM
Here is some more interesting things to consider:

Since 2002-2003... Players salaries and ticket revenue have remained nearly identical. Total revenue has increased by 600 million dollars over that time. Yet player salaries, let me repeat, have remained the same. Where has that money gone? "Other expenses" have risen nearly 50% since the 2002-2003 season. I would really love to see where the money is being spent. The NBA has held players salaries constant for 10 years, has increased its revenues substantially, and continues to lose money? If I were the NBA I probably wouldn't share that with people... b/c that is BAD business...

daleja424
07-07-2011, 03:26 PM
Players make way to much they make more then NFL players which makes no sense bc basketball isn't as popular and makes less money. Granted there are less players but still.

The NFL salary cap is more than twice as large as the NBA's...

A football team, however, has 4-5 times as many players. NFL players, as a whole, make a lot more money than NBA players, it just has to be spread thinner b/c there are so many more guys.

unwantedplayer
07-07-2011, 03:27 PM
Coincidental is one of the many definitions of ironic. Sigh.

Not trying to get off topic here but...

No, it's not lmao.

llemon
07-07-2011, 03:29 PM
the players should be more upset at the other players who's performance deemed them "bad contracts" and therefore hurt the rest of the players chances at the same opportunity to get a big payday... too bad nobody looks at it that way... Gilbert, JO, JJ, etc get a free pass, i guess... good for them for screwing the system...

Those players screwed the system?

How large were the guns they were holding to heads of the people that offerred those players the contracts they were given?

daleja424
07-07-2011, 03:32 PM
Those players screwed the system?

How large were the guns they were holding to heads of the people that offerred those players the contracts they were given?

Seriously... if your boss offers you a ton of money to keep you from going to work for a competitor, are you really going to turn it down and say, "I think it would be bad for our business for you to pay me this money," or do you take the money and move on.

Get real people...

Blaming the players for accepting the contracts...really? :pity:

smith&wesson
07-07-2011, 03:35 PM
blame it on the goose.

albertc86
07-07-2011, 03:41 PM
Bad contracts and the lower performing teams are to blame, imo. Maybe contraction is the way to go. Disperse the talent and bring some parity to the NBA. The NBA looks a little diluted and the games and overall talent are evidence of that.

Shmontaine
07-07-2011, 03:50 PM
Those players screwed the system?

How large were the guns they were holding to heads of the people that offerred those players the contracts they were given?

how many players signed huge contracts only to decrease their production... Ben Wallace, JO, Gilbert, Rahard Lewis, Redd, Eddie Curry, etc, could go on..

that's how the system gets screwed... they sign contracts, take the money, and check out... and there's nothing the owners can do but continue to own up to their obligation while the players have handicapped the league and their teams... I will repeat, if the players performed to their payscale, the way most of them did in their 'contract year' for the life of that contract, there would be far less room for owners to cry fowl... but, these guys didn't live up to their expectations, and now future players will not be fairly compensated because owners are not willing to give these players money to just check out...

i'm not putting all the blame on the players here, but a large amount of players seem to hit their payday and stop being competitive... that's a huge problem... no more guaranteed contracts, this would solve most issue IMO...

llemon
07-07-2011, 04:03 PM
If the owners aren't losing money, why are they willing to cancel a season?

To break the Union and make MORE money.

NYY 26 to 7
07-07-2011, 04:08 PM
how many players signed huge contracts only to decrease their production... Ben Wallace, JO, Gilbert, Rahard Lewis, Redd, Eddie Curry, etc, could go on..

that's how the system gets screwed... they sign contracts, take the money, and check out... and there's nothing the owners can do but continue to own up to their obligation while the players have handicapped the league and their teams... I will repeat, if the players performed to their payscale, the way most of them did in their 'contract year' for the life of that contract, there would be far less room for owners to cry fowl... but, these guys didn't live up to their expectations, and now future players will not be fairly compensated because owners are not willing to give these players money to just check out...

i'm not putting all the blame on the players here, but a large amount of players seem to hit their payday and stop being competitive... that's a huge problem... no more guaranteed contracts, this would solve most issue IMO...

It isn't the players fault though. This is a system flaw if you question the motivation of the players - which does happen with guaranteed contracts it is human nature for some if money is their incentive once they have it they will not work as hard. Other players are motivated by more than money. There will not be incentive laden contracts or non-guaranteed contracts like the NFL though so we can prob forget that even if it does make sense. Fans would prob get on board with this because no one wants these type of people eating up their cap space.

NYY 26 to 7
07-07-2011, 04:18 PM
To break the Union and make MORE money.

At least people should educate themselves before posting. "Break the union" is a rallying cry to get people behind the players. Also sports unions are a joke - unions were originally established to uphold reasonable living wages have benefits and maintain safety and oversight for the workforce - not to ensure that millionaires can be bigger millionaires. So let not act like this is some kind of working class worker struggle. At the same time the players acknowledged that they have no issue with their books which were handed over to the player and audited by an independent auditor. The player acknowledge NBA losses but their claim is that it is not the past CBA that caused it. This would be ok logic if they could point to where the losses are coming from but they can't.

llemon
07-07-2011, 04:24 PM
how many players signed huge contracts only to decrease their production... Ben Wallace, JO, Gilbert, Rahard Lewis, Redd, Eddie Curry, etc, could go on..

that's how the system gets screwed... they sign contracts, take the money, and check out... and there's nothing the owners can do but continue to own up to their obligation while the players have handicapped the league and their teams... I will repeat, if the players performed to their payscale, the way most of them did in their 'contract year' for the life of that contract, there would be far less room for owners to cry fowl... but, these guys didn't live up to their expectations, and now future players will not be fairly compensated because owners are not willing to give these players money to just check out...

i'm not putting all the blame on the players here, but a large amount of players seem to hit their payday and stop being competitive... that's a huge problem... no more guaranteed contracts, this would solve most issue IMO...

Sorry, owners are supposed to know their business. If they don't, they might lose money.

And I don't believe the NBA is losing money.

Shmontaine
07-07-2011, 04:27 PM
It isn't the players fault though. This is a system flaw if you question the motivation of the players - which does happen with guaranteed contracts it is human nature for some if money is their incentive once they have it they will not work as hard. Other players are motivated by more than money. There will not be incentive laden contracts or non-guaranteed contracts like the NFL though so we can prob forget that even if it does make sense. Fans would prob get on board with this because no one wants these type of people eating up their cap space.

nobody is blaming the players entirely... the system is set up to offer the players more than they are worth... that's what needs to be fixed... the under-performance of said players just exemplifies the problem of the system...

i'd take the money, anyone would.. but i wouldn't act like i wasn't the problem... i'd say 'thanks, i'm doing my best'.. i'd still be part of the problem..

BSplaya2121
07-07-2011, 04:32 PM
Can't blame the players for taking paydays. Each team usually spends at the cap every year or at least close to it. Whether they pay 3 players 20mil or 10 players 6 mil a year... they still end up paying 60mil a year on players. Thee owners spend money of private flights, first class hotel rooms, after and before the game catering etc. Things that the owners spend and not a dime out of the players pockets. The owners spend too much money and write it all off on their income statements to show losses. Its just dumbass owners being extremely greedy

akagiredsuns
07-07-2011, 04:42 PM
This is ********. Forbes doesmt have the records and therefore they have no clue.

And why do people keep saying the NBA is losing money. Some tea,s are losing money, not everyone.

And when will you dipshits start to read these articles and understand them. This article clearly states the info was giving to Forbes by someone close to the NBA labor negotiations.

This is 99% a bunch of garbage stats stern is probably handing over to make the league look good, most likely in retaliation to recent articles showing they aren't losing what they say, and showing NBA uses garbage accounting to make crap up.

Yea because Forbes magazine has zero credibility with its readers. Get your blinders off and wake up. The owners were spending money and have lost because of it. Which is why they are going for this hard cap. How can you discredit Forbes? What a FAIL dude. :facepalm: The article has legs IMO.

llemon
07-07-2011, 04:45 PM
Yea because Forbes magazine has zero credibility with its readers. Get your blinders off and wake up. The owners were spending money and have lost because of it. Which is why they are going for this hard cap. How can you discredit Forbes? What a FAIL dude. :facepalm: The article has legs IMO.

You believe everything in Forbes Magazine? Don't they have a base that they have to keep happy?

Phenomenonsense
07-07-2011, 05:49 PM
Simple math shows this to be a stupid article. Over 10 years, the teams have, on average lost 10 million per year (1.8 billion/6 years/30 teams). Owners have lost 1 bad contract per year. Whoopdee****ingdoo. I doubt these numbers are correct, nor do I think that the "loss" also includes any earnings any team has made.

Illa215
07-07-2011, 05:59 PM
It's the worst league in the world with the biggest buffoons playing in it. Hopefully the lockout never ends.

PhillyFaninLA
07-07-2011, 06:09 PM
I want some help on something guys. Lets paint a proper picture here so we can objectively look at this.

Please add anything that I may have missed so we can have a proper perception of the flow of money in the NBA.

Expenses:

All employees (from paid intern, to players, to marketing, to GM, to players and everyone else getting a paycheck)
Insurance (I suspect this would be really really high)
Inventory (everything from Jerseys and shoes, to staples and paper clips)
Groups they need to hirer (security, vendors, etc..)
Contract with arena (assuming the owner does not own it)
business expenses (marketing, meetings, media buys, etc...)
Travel
legal fees
promotional items (I think this deserves to be separate from inventory)
charitable donations (both time, travel, and money)

Revenus:

League revenue sharing
Independent media contracts (like a local TV or Radio station playing the games)
advertising
profit generated from hired groups they pay, this would be contract and team specific (concession, parking, and things like that)
percentage of team item sales (jersey, dvd, jewelry, etc...)

camador22
07-07-2011, 06:46 PM
The biggest misconception here is that the owners dug their own grave. Owners have no choice but to pay top dollars. An example is the Hawks with J.Johnson. Do you honestly think Atlanta wanted to pay him the max or Memphis give Gay an 82M dollar contract? Clearly the answer is no, if they wouldn't have a big market like NY or Chicago would have. In order for a small market to compete they are forced to pay big dollars in order to please the fans.

llemon
07-07-2011, 07:02 PM
The biggest misconception here is that the owners dug their own grave. Owners have no choice but to pay top dollars. An example is the Hawks with J.Johnson. Do you honestly think Atlanta wanted to pay him the max or Memphis give Gay an 82M dollar contract? Clearly the answer is no, if they wouldn't have a big market like NY or Chicago would have. In order for a small market to compete they are forced to pay big dollars in order to please the fans.

Of course, owners would rather pay players $10 per game.

Rudy Gay MAY be worth the money. He's young and wasn't expected to get hurt.

JJ's contract is ridiculous, as when he is being paid the most he will be worth the least. Hawks should have been thinking smart and cheap.

And signing Arenas to that contract to that contract was like Wiz signing their own death certificate, and everyone knew it except Wiz management.

daleja424
07-07-2011, 07:09 PM
The biggest misconception here is that the owners dug their own grave. Owners have no choice but to pay top dollars. An example is the Hawks with J.Johnson. Do you honestly think Atlanta wanted to pay him the max or Memphis give Gay an 82M dollar contract? Clearly the answer is no, if they wouldn't have a big market like NY or Chicago would have. In order for a small market to compete they are forced to pay big dollars in order to please the fans.

That's the nature of being a small market sports team. You have to live with it. As I have said Many times though... The 2 billion spent on players isn't the problem though... That has been constant for nearly 10 years. The problem is that the "other expenses" continue to grow profoundly with no explanation.

arkanian215
07-07-2011, 07:17 PM
I get the feeling that Forbes is being used as a prop in all of this. I believe earlier Forbes said that the NBA was overstating its losses. Now they say the story is completely different.

PhillyFaninLA
07-07-2011, 07:20 PM
(deleted - I mispoke)

papipapsmanny
07-07-2011, 07:21 PM
yea and like any other business in america losing money, either employees are fired, or they take a pay cut

daleja424
07-07-2011, 07:48 PM
yea and like any other business in america losing money, either employees are fired, or they take a pay cut

This is true... but what multi billion dollar business has asked its employees to take a 30% paycut?

And don't the cutbacks usually start with rollbacks on non-essential personnel? Why have front office costs raised at 5 times the rate of inflation while player salaries have remained unchange over the last ten years?

And which other multibillion dollar business has had a work stoppage... how many can even afford the carrying costs of doing so?

AddiX
07-07-2011, 08:00 PM
Yea because Forbes magazine has zero credibility with its readers. Get your blinders off and wake up. The owners were spending money and have lost because of it. Which is why they are going for this hard cap. How can you discredit Forbes? What a FAIL dude. :facepalm: The article has legs IMO.

These numbers are from stern, we don't know WTF they say and don't say.

And how the fck does a business that is doing bad blame the players? If your business is doing bad its because they don't know WTF they are doing. Not because the players are overpaid.

These franchises are paying $ out the *** who's jobs is to find out how to make the best profit, where to spend money, and where not to, these guys are paid huge $.

If they don't know WTF they are doing, your business is fcked no matter who is on the roster.

beasted86
07-07-2011, 08:25 PM
$1.8B divided by 6 years = $300M a year

8 of the 30 teams made a profit, so divide the $300M between the other 22 teams and you get roughly a $14M loss between each team.

So with those rough estimates in mind... how exactly is it feasible that some of the owners are calling for a $45M hard cap ON TOP of a large increase in their split of the revenue sharing? To go from a $58M soft cap to a $45M hard cap seems quite drastic if you are averaging a $14M loss every season.

I think this falls right in line with what Derek Fisher said about the NBA overstating their losses and how much the system really needs to change. It's actually quite possible that calling for just a 50/50 split in revenue sharing ALONE might swing more than a couple teams into the break even point or into profit.

LA_Raiders
07-07-2011, 09:16 PM
Dang, No players pay cut = No NBA simple like that...

LA_Raiders
07-07-2011, 09:19 PM
yea and like any other business in america losing money, either employees are fired, or they take a pay cut

agree, but Greedy NBA players cant get that

AddiX
07-07-2011, 09:33 PM
agree, but Greedy NBA players cant get that

How are they greedy when a lot of teams are pulling a crazy profit. New Yorks tickets are going up 49% next season.

Mind you through the entire isiah period and through a recession tickets never dropped in price, and the cheapest ticket in the garden was 45$.

daleja424
07-07-2011, 09:34 PM
agree, but Greedy NBA players cant get that

This is what I don't get...

How are the players greedy? They haven't gotten a pay raise in nearly a decade and have offered to take a REASONABLE pay cut.

What is greedy about that?

AddiX
07-07-2011, 09:53 PM
This is what I don't get...

How are the players greedy? They haven't gotten a pay raise in nearly a decade and have offered to take a REASONABLE pay cut.

What is greedy about that?


The clippers have been a profitable company year in and year out, they have sucked, and are competing with the best franchise in the NBA of modern times, and before Blake came along they never had big named superstars.

Why do they a profit every year? Because there business decisions aren't run by fcking morons

llemon
07-07-2011, 10:13 PM
agree, but Greedy NBA players cant get that

"We the owners realize that we are stupid and greedy, but as that seems to be what the people, the media, and the Government are backing these days, we still blame the players who we threw money at recklessly."

JordansBulls
07-07-2011, 11:50 PM
This is another reason we are in a lockout to help out the smaller teams.

MickeyMgl
07-08-2011, 07:18 PM
You believe everything in Forbes Magazine? Don't they have a base that they have to keep happy?

Forbes is the bible of money. Their base is anybody interested in money and interested in reading accurate articles about money.

MickeyMgl
07-08-2011, 07:27 PM
At least people should educate themselves before posting. "Break the union" is a rallying cry to get people behind the players. Also sports unions are a joke - unions were originally established to uphold reasonable living wages have benefits and maintain safety and oversight for the workforce - not to ensure that millionaires can be bigger millionaires. So let not act like this is some kind of working class worker struggle. At the same time the players acknowledged that they have no issue with their books which were handed over to the player and audited by an independent auditor. The player acknowledge NBA losses but their claim is that it is not the past CBA that caused it. This would be ok logic if they could point to where the losses are coming from but they can't.

The players have proposed reductions themselves. They just don't feel it's necessary to abandon the entire system. It's not the system that caused this problem. They just need to dial down the players' split of revenues.

Tony_Starks
07-08-2011, 07:38 PM
If you believe those numbers slap yourself.

The nba and Stern do "creative accounting" when it comes to stating their losses, to put it mildly.....

theheatles
07-08-2011, 07:44 PM
"We the owners realize that we are stupid and greedy, but as that seems to be what the people, the media, and the Government are backing these days, we still blame the players who we threw money at recklessly."

pretty much this

effen5
07-08-2011, 10:17 PM
This is an easy fix....Just bring MJ back to the Bulls and the NBA will be popular again.....