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Steelers23_06
07-06-2011, 08:55 PM
Did Michael Jeffrey Jordan single-handedly murder the careers of nba players from the year 1990-????. Did he kill the style of team play by averaging 40.1 points against a Barkley led Sun team in 93? Did he selfishly make the star of every team feel as if they have to take and make the game winner because of the numerous reruns, commercial and posters of jordan hitting "The Shot" vs the Cavs and "The Final Shot" vs the Jazz?
Don't get be wrong this is not a jordan bashing thread by any means but I think that the game of the nba has changed since he became The Man. Look at the NBA before he was in the league you had the Lakers and Celtics who had multiple dynasties that were full of many HOF'ers on each team including the the years of hakeem with magic and worthy, or the boston REAL big 3 (not the one and done fellows), or the team with john havlicek, bill russell and sam jones. The '82 76ers had moses malone, dr j., and maurice cheeks. and unless your a real fan of the team i bet you cant name a single player off the 78 champion bullets or the 79 Super Sonics....you wanna know why. Because their weren't heroes with sidekicks or 2 1/2 men jokes their was the concept of team ball. Teams like the Denver Nuggets would be looked at as a solid team back them unlike how people now are so quick to point out their lack of a player thats "The Man". Or players like lebron wouldn't be frowned upon for leaving a team for a ring cough cough wilt, kareem, parish, etc. Or kobe who is such a great player wouldn't be looked at as having a career at second best...it would just be a HOF career that was great. Magicn't would get more praise instead of so quickly being forgotton. We would get our hopes up on Vince Carter, T-Mac, Carmelo and every other young NBA star being the next MJ. Lets Be Real not every basketball player can win the dunk contest a couple times, lock down the best player in crunch time, hit so many clutch shots, win MVP numerous times, and DPOY, and hold the record for the most points in the playoffs, and star in a movie wit bugs bunny, and star be in a music video with michael jackson, and have the best selling endorsed shoes of all time...common people we just lower our expectations a bit and love the NBA for what its worth next season, well if there one.

NYKalltheway
07-06-2011, 08:58 PM
agreed... Thank god I can watch European basketball as well where these "stardoms" do not exist

Sly Guy
07-06-2011, 08:58 PM
Jordan crossed the line. Iverson threw up on it.

llemon
07-06-2011, 09:05 PM
Of course, '78 Bullets had Unseld and Elvin Hayes.

'79 Sonics had Sikma, Dennis Johnson, and one of my favorite players, Gus Williams. Plus John Johnson & Lonnie Shelton.

COOLbeans
07-06-2011, 09:06 PM
well if you look it like that..

good post, MJ's still the greatest

PhillyFaninLA
07-06-2011, 09:07 PM
Legends make the game better and bring more people to watch whether its to cheer and admire or to boo.

QB's will always be compared to Montana, Elway, and Marino.
Great hitters will compared to Ruth, Williams, Mantle, or Mays.
If Jordan never existed they would be comparing the to Magic, Bird, or Wilt.

There will always be comparisons to the greats.

NYMetros
07-06-2011, 09:08 PM
Well seeing as the NBA's coming off one of its best years in history, I have a hard time believing Jordan "murdered" the game.

NYKalltheway
07-06-2011, 09:09 PM
He's not talking about comparisons though, he's talking about changing the game and changing fan priorities ;)

PhillyFaninLA
07-06-2011, 09:11 PM
He's not talking about comparisons though, he's talking about changing the game and changing fan priorities ;)


He made a comment about young players being the next MJ towards the end that is why I addressed that point.

llemon
07-06-2011, 09:12 PM
Well, Jordan is killing the Bobcats. That must count for something.

Ty Fast
07-06-2011, 09:26 PM
Well, Jordan is killing the Bobcats. That must count for something.

dont forget about the wizards too

WadeCounty
07-06-2011, 09:29 PM
"or maybe your just making excuses" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH8nTfxwByY

magichatnumber9
07-06-2011, 10:24 PM
Yes Jordan turned the NBA into a 1 on 1 **** show.

ChiSox219
07-06-2011, 10:31 PM
It's not Jordan's fault others try to be him and fail.

blastmasta26
07-06-2011, 10:34 PM
The NBA was very successful during the Jordan Era, so a focus on superstar play is inevitable since the NBA will definitely seek to replicate that. Team ball still exists, no superstar can without a capable supporting cast, but marketing a star is much easier to do than marketing a team of hard workers. And I don't understand the Nuggets example, the lack of star power was a legitimate weakness for them, there's a reason they lost to the Thunder in the playoffs despite having more depth.

MSG34
07-06-2011, 10:39 PM
The Pistons winning the championship squashes this argument for me. They won with team ball.

Dash
07-06-2011, 10:43 PM
It's not his fault he became the best player ever in the NBA

Hellcrooner
07-06-2011, 10:49 PM
yes, he did but is not only his fault, he had fellow dudes in the conspiration, vaccaro, stern, refs, gatorade, wb, mcdonalds, nike etc etc etc.

Bos_Sports4Life
07-06-2011, 10:51 PM
I don't even think mj is CLEARLY the best if you compare players relative too there own time, but thats a convo for later..

Now, I do believe players that play a simmilar fashion too mj become somewhat overrated. Ive heard so many ppl say kobe/lebron are the best since mj, without mention on guys like Duncan/Shaq.

knickfan33
07-06-2011, 11:12 PM
if it wasnt for jordan the knicks would probably have had a couple of rings in my lifetime...sniff sniff..(tear)

PrettyBoyJ
07-06-2011, 11:45 PM
"or maybe your just making excuses" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH8nTfxwByY

lol i thought of this video wen reading this thread

Rego247
07-06-2011, 11:54 PM
lol i thought of this video wen reading this thread

same here.

Sox72
07-07-2011, 12:32 AM
lol i thought of this video wen reading this thread


same here.

I thought of this one.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEVCjUG1Mww&feature=related

LOOTERX9
07-07-2011, 12:39 AM
Yes Jordan turned the NBA into a 1 on 1 **** show.



Umm watching 2 stars go at each other 1 on 1 is one of the most exciting things to watch in all of sports. Watching Dirk vs wade go at it in the 4th qtr of game 3 was great television. So stop the old guy talking points. Jordan made NBA lots of Money, made nba popular, made certain nba players household names just by him playing against them in playoffs. Saying jordan ruined the nba is like saying that Tiger Woods ruined golf:facepalm:

D Roses Bulls
07-07-2011, 12:44 AM
of course he murdered the NBA. when he retired the second time, the NBA was no where near as fun to watch anymore. :)

3ballbomber
07-07-2011, 12:46 AM
It's not his fault he became the best player ever in the NBA
This.


It's like asking did Albert Einstein ruin physics since he revolutionized physics from developing the theory of general relativity. Other physicians learned from this and we became more wiser with more wisdom & knowledge as the result of his brilliance.

People who evolve anything in society are innovators. These people are able to elevate the field in which they are in to another level inevitably improving and creating evolution......i don't see how that is a negative in any way. - The only negative here is if it is exploited for personal gains, and, well we all know how Stern capitalized off of Jordans talents - perhaps that name should have been in place of Jordan in this particular topic.

Denver-boy
07-07-2011, 01:01 AM
man, i wish jordan still played. hes made the NBA revolve around him, kinda still does and nobody will ever be him. ever

Kobe, James, and wade have theyre moments, but aint never gonna be a player like jordan.

naps
07-07-2011, 01:01 AM
No. Jordan made the game what it is today. NBA is more fun and more of a worldwide game now than it was 20 years ago. And Jordan is the MAIN reason for that. Michael Jordan is Michael Jordan. You can't replace him and I don't think anybody will ever sniff his superstardom.

chitownbears89
07-07-2011, 01:51 AM
I love MJ.

NYKnicksAllDay
07-07-2011, 02:41 AM
Umm watching 2 stars go at each other 1 on 1 is one of the most exciting things to watch in all of sports. Watching Dirk vs wade go at it in the 4th qtr of game 3 was great television. So stop the old guy talking points. Jordan made NBA lots of Money, made nba popular, made certain nba players household names just by him playing against them in playoffs. Saying jordan ruined the nba is like saying that Tiger Woods ruined golf:facepalm:

For once I actually agree with you, Looter.

EaglePride615
07-07-2011, 03:16 AM
he killed it and saved it. because every young kid says i wanna be like jordan so they practice practice practice. he killed it because there will never be another jordan. kobes not close i dont care what anybody says.

SMH!
07-07-2011, 03:21 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zSVu76AX3I /thread

LOOTERX9
07-07-2011, 03:58 AM
For once I actually agree with you, Looter.


Well with my high NBA knowledge you should more. But hell i'll take this 1 lone agreement.

NYKalltheway
07-07-2011, 04:53 AM
No. Jordan made the game what it is today. NBA is more fun and more of a worldwide game now than it was 20 years ago. And Jordan is the MAIN reason for that. Michael Jordan is Michael Jordan. You can't replace him and I don't think anybody will ever sniff his superstardom.

The international interest of the NBA stopped when Jordan retired. Then Chinese got interested with Yao and that's about it... There's almost no interest from foreigners in the NBA these days when you compare that to late 80s and early 90s even (Celtics, Lakers, Pistons...). The peak was during 96-98 but then it was all downhill for the NBA's international status.

Almost everyone who watches NBA now (most watched an NBA game this year after almost 5-10 years of no interest) said that the NBA has turned into a joke. You can't blame them with the stupid rules they impose

3ballbomber
07-07-2011, 09:22 AM
Almost everyone who watches NBA now (most watched an NBA game this year after almost 5-10 years of no interest) said that the NBA has turned into a joke. You can't blame them with the stupid rules they impose

preach on brother!

thenetslegend
07-07-2011, 09:29 AM
no, but sprewell almost murdered his coach.

Havoc Wreaker
07-07-2011, 09:30 AM
Must.Use.Spacing

sager729
07-07-2011, 09:50 AM
The Pistons winning the championship squashes this argument for me. They won with team ball.

Yeah but if there was a player equal to Jordan in the league, then the Pistons stood no chance. That's why Kobe is no Jordan. I love Kobe's game and he is the closest I have seen to MJ when he was in his prime. (my grandpa still says that the closest he's seen to MJ is the Oscar Robertson) But Kobe just couldn't take on a team like the Pistons even with Shaq on his team.

I mean Jordan probably would have won 8 straight championships if he didn't leave to play baseball. He changed the game into what it is today. DEFINATLY.

WeBallin
07-07-2011, 09:55 AM
Yeah Jordan Murdered the NBA, the Competition that was in it at the time....

DisturbedFTW83
07-07-2011, 09:58 AM
It's not Jordan's fault others try to be him and fail.

that line is epic.

Hellcrooner
07-07-2011, 12:01 PM
Yeah but if there was a player equal to Jordan in the league, then the Pistons stood no chance. That's why Kobe is no Jordan. I love Kobe's game and he is the closest I have seen to MJ when he was in his prime. (my grandpa still says that the closest he's seen to MJ is the Oscar Robertson) But Kobe just couldn't take on a team like the Pistons even with Shaq on his team.

I mean Jordan probably would have won 8 straight championships if he didn't leave to play baseball. He changed the game into what it is today. DEFINATLY.
there was a player named jordand that sucked it for 6 seasons before he could win a ring and lost several time to a pistons team that was only a bit more talented that the 04 one but made in a similar way, team play and defense.

Btw, mr jeffrey the "god" jordan never got a ring agaisnt isiah, Magic or Bird until they where on their Wheelchairs.

JordansBulls
07-07-2011, 12:06 PM
there was a player named jordand that sucked it for 6 seasons before he could win a ring and lost several time to a pistons team that was only a bit more talented that the 04 one but made in a similar way, team play and defense.

Btw, mr jeffrey the "god" jordan never got a ring agaisnt isiah, Magic or Bird until they where on their Wheelchairs.

He beat the Pistons the year after they won their last title, in the conference finals. Dumars was a 20/5.5 player, Rodman was in the year between his two All-Star selections, was All-Defensive First Team and won his second DPOY. Dumars was an All-Star and All-NBA 3rd team.

Granted, Isiah was way, WAY less effective than he'd been in seasons past, but it was a 4-game sweep and it's not a stretch to believe that even a healthy Isiah would have had trouble pushing that series past 6 games. Those Bulls were really, really good.

It's disingenuos to complain that Jordan didn't beat a lot of good teams... the 96 Sonics and the 97 and 98 Jazz were great teams. So were the early-90s Knicks, and even those 91 Pistons. His road to the Finals wasn't any easier than Magic's, and he had some tough competition, especially in the last three-peat. Hell, that 92 Blazers team was no pushover either, pretty good and well-balanced offensive team with a top-notch player leading them, good defensive squad...

Was it the same as the 80s? No, not quite. There wasn't really a counterpart team that he faced, unless you consider the Jazz that team (and really, he faced them twice, Magic faced the Celtics 3x and the Sixers 3x, going 2-1 against each and otherwise beating the Pistons once in two matchups).

But the deal is, both Magic and Bird enjoyed more peripheral talent around them as WELL as that competition, so it's somewhat disingenuous to say "he didn't beat the best" or "to be the best, you need to beat the best" and all those other platitudes. Jordan faced teams that had comparable and sometimes superior depth compared to his squad, to a degree similar to what Magic and Bird faced in their own era. It was a different league, a different time, a different style... just like it was true that it was way, way different in the 60s. Russell's winning was a product of a league with limited competition, limited ability for player movement, excessive loopholes that Red Auerbach basically caused to be closed by his massive manipulation of the young system, etc, etc. I mean, those Celtics teams were good, but they also literally couldn't exist in the 90s or later because of the way contracts are done now, the way the league rules on free agency, etc, etc, etc. There are no territorial picks (such as the one that allowed Boston to get Tommy Heinsohn), and you're not going to find a team that is unwilling to pay a player of Russell's caliber coming out of college what he was looking for, which is what allowed Boston to get him in the first place. There's a structure to rookie contracts, it's different. The draft lottery was instituted the year after Jordan was drafted, more than a half-decade into the careers of Bird and Magic... Magic, who benefited from the addition of James Worthy the year after he won a title.

So like I said, the situations were very, very different, and we're not even getting into rules changes and the like. The ability of a team to craft its roster is fundamentally different from era to era, and that makes a huge difference in terms of what you can field as a squad. The Lakers fielded a superstar center, a superstar PG, a DPOY SG and a HoF SF.

That's a little different than Ho Grant (scrappy defender, good rebounder, nice 15-footer), Scottie Pippen (very good player, not quite the same as MVP Kareem, though) and then various scrap centers and guards and so forth. Even when they added Rodman, it wasn't quite the same as the depth that the 80s squads were able to enjoy. The Sixers, for example, rolling with 2 former MVPs.

It's VERY difficult to compare across eras, and this specific argument is one that is invalid. The Bulls were a terrible, terrible squad when Jordan got there, and he turned them into a perennial force in the Eastern Conference really before Pippen and Horace Grant were THAT good. Lest we forget, with Doug Collins in 88-89, a 2nd-year Scottie rocking 14/6/3.5 (and playing great D) and Ho Grant (rocking about 12/8.5), he made the Eastern Conference Finals against the title Pistons and took them to 6 games.

That speaks VOLUMES about what Jordan was capable of doing, particularly since they were the only team to win a single game against Detroit in the playoffs that year (though as I recall, Magic was injured in game 2, played 5 minutes in game 3, and missed the deciding game 4; Byron Scott was gone the whole series, and Mychal Thompson outplayed Kareem over the playoffs).

In any case, it's unfair to talk about Jordan as if he didn't succeed against the best, because he did. His lack of rings in that period speaks to not having comparable talent surrounding him, nothing more. Remember, Magic and Bird both played with at least two other All-Star-caliber players their whole careers, and Magic even had an MVP playing alongside him, while Bird had basically two 20/10 players next to him, nevermind DJ and Ainge as quality backcourt players. Jordan had Pippen... and in-era, that meant he had a lot of talent beside him, as he did with his PFs, but they didn't come into their own until after Bird started falling apart from injury and age, and right as the Lakers started to lose Cooper and Kareem, etc, etc. It just doesn't make sense to make that argument.


Here are the ages of all their core players:

Dumars: 27
Thomas: 29
Aguirre: 31
Edwards: 35
Johnson: 34
Laimbeer: 33
Rodman: 29
Salley: 26

Isn't the prime of a basketball player roughly between ages 27-30? If so, their two best players were within that range and their third leading scorer was just outside it at 31. Rodman was in his prime as well, Salley was about to enter it. Only Laimbeer, Edwards, and Johnson were truly old.

Thomas 1988: 19.5/8.4/46%
Thomas 1989: 18.2/8.3/46%
Thomas 1990: 18.4/9.4/44%
Thomas 1991: 16.2/9.3/44%

In the case of Thomas there was a decline in scoring from the championship years, although his assists were actually higher than in his first title year and his field goal percentage was the same as in 1990. However, was this due to age?

Thomas 1992: 18.5/7.2/45%

His good 1992 campaign suggests his 1991 decline was due to injuries. He made every all-star team in the 90's except for his final season. He declined further in 1993 but 1994 is when he ceased being an all-star.

Dumars 1988: 14.2/47%
Dumars 1989: 17.2/50%
Dumars 1990: 17.8/48%
Dumars 1991: 20.4/48%

Dumars was actually improving during this period, which is to be expected given his age. His best season was 1993 when he was 29 years old. Dumars made the all-star team as late as 1997 when he was 33.

Aguirre 1989: 15.5/48% (his numbers in Detroit only)
Aguirre 1990: 14.1/49%
Aguirre 1991: 14.2/46%

Aguirre showed no decline from 1990.

Laimbeer 1988: 13.5/10/49%
Laimbeer 1989: 14/10/50%
Laimbeer 1990: 12/10/48%
Laimbeer 1991: 11/9/48%

He was a player clearly in decline, albeit a steady decline.

Rodman 1988: 12/12/56%
Rodman 1989: 9/9/60%
Rodman 1990: 9/10/58%
Rodman 1991: 8/13/58%

Rodman was a player on the upswing. In 1992 he would shoot up to averaging 19 rebounds a game along with 10 points. He would lead the league in rebounding for the next seven years.

Johnson 1988: 12/44%
Johnson 1989: 14/46%
Johnson 1990: 10/43%
Johnson 1991: 12/43%

Johnson was obviously past his prime but he was actually better in 1991 than in 1990.

So Dumars, Rodman were improving players during this time. Laimbeer and Johnson were declining but Johnson in 1991 was better than in 1990. Isiah Thomas had a down year in 1991 but he rebounded in 1992.

Jay
07-07-2011, 12:09 PM
Well, Jordan is killing the Bobcats. That must count for something.

Nah, he killed the Wizards. Hes gotten a little bit better since those days, though he still has no idea what hes doing in the front office.

ghettosean
07-07-2011, 12:20 PM
If you word it the way you did to start this post I may agree with you... He didn't really murder anything though but he changed the way people look at the game in many different ways.

I'll say 2 things:

1. Great players change the way the game is played... Jordans crazy dunks from missed free throws... Does anyone remember that when he would sneak in on a miss and jam it home this is just one of the rules they had to change about the game because his basketball IQ was so high.

2. I was born in 1981 and honestly if Jordan wasn't part of basketball I'm not sure I'd be a fan of the game today. Not to say that I don't love the game because I've watched basketball almost all my life but Jordan was the person who drew me into basketball and he made the Bulls my 1st favourite NBA team (I'm positive he had the same effect on millions of others as well).

So to answer your question I think he changed the game but didn't murder it... He shot ratings way up when he was playing basketball and if you look at this past year ratings are through the roof so I don't really think Jordan murdered anything.

I'll say thank you to him for introducing me to the game I love!

smith&wesson
07-07-2011, 12:22 PM
Jordan made the nba a recognized brand on an international scale.

how did he murder it, by being as good as he was ?? what would you have him do, pass the ball more ? i dont get it. If you mean he set the bar high then I agree with you but I for one was happy I got to see him take the game to a new level.

Hellcrooner
07-07-2011, 12:27 PM
Jordan made the nba a recognized brand on an international scale.

how did he murder it, by being as good as he was ?? what would you have him do, pass the ball more ? i dont get it. If you mean he set the bar high then I agree with you but I for one was happy I got to see him take the game to a new level.

except the nternational breakout as bout lakers and celtics finals.....

smith&wesson
07-07-2011, 12:35 PM
except the nternational breakout as bout lakers and celtics finals.....

i dont even know what that is supose to mean.


any how jordan brought fans to the nba. you can talk about how good the celtics and lakers were and how great the pistons were in the 80's. the fact of the matter is ppl who were already watching the nba knew that at the time. but jordan brought fans to the sport that other wise wouldnt be watching basket ball period!

Southsideheat
07-07-2011, 12:36 PM
I'm not totally buying it. For one, he was in the triangle offense which makes everyone touch the ball where you don't need a true point guard, and two, it took Jordan 7 years to win a title because he DIDN'T play team ball. When he did, they won.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
07-07-2011, 12:48 PM
"Maybe it's my fault, maybe I lead you to believe it was easy, when it wasn't. Maybe I lead you to think my highlights started at the freethrow line, and not in the gym. Maybe I made you think that every shot I took was a gamewinner, that my game was built on flash, and not fire. Or, maybe it's my fault that you didn't see that my failure gave me strength, that my pain was my motivation. Maybe I lead you to believe that basketball was a god given gift, and not something I worked for... every, single day of my life. Maybe I detroyed the game. Or, maybe... Your just making excuses" -MJ

smith&wesson
07-07-2011, 12:52 PM
"Maybe it's my fault, maybe I lead you to believe it was easy, when it wasn't. Maybe I lead you to think my highlights started at the freethrow line, and not in the gym. Maybe I made you think that every shot I took was a gamewinner, that my game was built on flash, and not fire. Or, maybe it's my fault that you didn't see that my failure gave me strength, that my pain was my motivation. Maybe I lead you to believe that basketball was a god given gift, and not something I worked for... every, single day of my life. Maybe I detroyed the game. Or, maybe... Your just making excuses" -MJ

Maybe.

RaiderLakersA's
07-07-2011, 01:39 PM
One of the biggest lies that you will ever hear: "Perception is reality."

Jordan didn't murder the NBA. But how people perceived success as something that Jordan accomplished alone sure did.

RaiderLakersA's
07-07-2011, 01:43 PM
I'm not totally buying it. For one, he was in the triangle offense which makes everyone touch the ball where you don't need a true point guard, and two, it took Jordan 7 years to win a title because he DIDN'T play team ball. When he did, they won.

It was a combination of Jordan playing team ball and the Bulls actually getting the talent around Jordan to be multi-title champions. Jordan doesn't get jack squat without Pippen, Kukoc, Rodman, Grant, Kerr, etc., etc., etc., on his team.

And do we even need to mention the influence of Coach PJ in getting Jordan to trust his teammates? Hmmm...we've heard something similar happen in the more recent history with two other superstars that PJ coached. Wonder who? :rolleyes:

Sixerlover
07-07-2011, 01:53 PM
:laugh2: No. Jordan didn't murder the NBA.

Rivera
07-07-2011, 02:18 PM
lol NO jordan didnt murder the NBA :laugh2:

the owners are about to murder the NBA by locking out for a whole season after there most successful season since......


JORDAN

LOOTERX9
07-07-2011, 02:23 PM
lol NO jordan didnt murder the NBA :laugh2:

the owners are about to murder the NBA by locking out for a whole season after there most successful season since......


JORDAN




Well said, Owners are bout to destroy their own product. Those rich Dick heads

Hustlenomics
07-07-2011, 02:35 PM
there was a player named jordand that sucked it for 6 seasons before he could win a ring and lost several time to a pistons team that was only a bit more talented that the 04 one but made in a similar way, team play and defense.

Btw, mr jeffrey the "god" jordan never got a ring agaisnt isiah, Magic or Bird until they where on their Wheelchairs.

yea he must have really been sucking when he averaged 37 ppg on 48 % shooting

PLAYERS FAN
07-07-2011, 03:01 PM
If u, consider winning championship in a ballhog fashion is bad thenmaybe yes. Magic, Bird and Isiah was winning titles in team ball fashion.

Lo Porto
07-07-2011, 03:17 PM
This post is spot on. The Jordan era seemed awesome, but it wouldn't exist in today's media. When MJ couldn't beat Detroit for a few years, he wasn't bashed like LBJ has been the last couple years. That's why LBJ, Kobe and others are never truly the star because the media (especially ESPN) point out every flaw. In MJ's era, Nike and Gatorade did everything to shine on MJ's strengths and never showed weaknesses. They did so much for MJ that he appeared to be a better defender than Pippen which Phil Jackson completely disputed in his book.

In terms of finances, MJ hurt the NBA big time. When he demanded $36 million a year for 1996-1998, he created the current cap structure that is crippling the NBA. His greed got us to where we are today in a fierce lockout battle.

If fans could be completely objective, they'd see that MJ did more to hurt the NBA than help it. Just because he's a top 3 player of all time doesn't mean he was good for the NBA. The Bird and Magic era of the 80's was just better.

albertc86
07-07-2011, 03:29 PM
Jordan didn't destroy the NBA but I think he destroyed the appreciation of basketball. This is entirely the fans' fault because they deify Jordan as though he never made a mistake. As great as Jordan was, he made many mistakes like any other superstar before and after him.

You can see his effect on the appreciation of the game on this very board. Why does LeBron, Kobe and Wade have to be compared to Jordan? It isn't necessary. A purist of the game and a true basketball fan would recognize talent and separate their dislike for the player as a person. Jordan, like these spoiled stars of today, was an *******. He was the ultimate competitor but his arrogance was off the charts and he even ripped his own son during his HOF speech.

You Kobe, LeBron, Wade, [insert star player here] haters won't appreciate these guys until they're gone or start to decline. As much as you dislike them, for whatever reason, imagine the NBA without these talented players. It would be boring as hell! The game would be so boring you'd probably stop watching the game.

Lo Porto
07-07-2011, 03:47 PM
Jordan didn't destroy the NBA but I think he destroyed the appreciation of basketball. This is entirely the fans' fault because they deify Jordan as though he never made a mistake. As great as Jordan was, he made many mistakes like any other superstar before and after him.

You can see his effect on the appreciation of the game on this very board. Why does LeBron, Kobe and Wade have to be compared to Jordan? It isn't necessary. A purist of the game and a true basketball fan would recognize talent and separate their dislike for the player as a person. Jordan, like these spoiled stars of today, was an *******. He was the ultimate competitor but his arrogance was off the charts and he even ripped his own son during his HOF speech.

You Kobe, LeBron, Wade, [insert star player here] won't appreciate these guys until they're gone or start to decline. As much as you dislike them, for whatever reason, imagine the NBA without these talented players. It would be boring as hell! The game would be so boring you'd probably stop watching the game.

Great post. It is amazing how much the media forces MJ down everyone's throats. The guy was good, but he wasn't near as good as everyone makes him out to be. Before he got the best coach of all time (Phil), the best perimeter defender of all time (Pippen) and a bunch of other phenomenal role players around him (Grant, Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr, Paxson, Harper, etc.), he was just a scorer like young Vince Carter, young Tracy McGrady or similar. He wasn't this amazing winner until he was surrounded by greatness. People always forget that.

JordansBulls
07-07-2011, 03:50 PM
This post is spot on. The Jordan era seemed awesome, but it wouldn't exist in today's media. When MJ couldn't beat Detroit for a few years, he wasn't bashed like LBJ has been the last couple years. That's why LBJ, Kobe and others are never truly the star because the media (especially ESPN) point out every flaw. In MJ's era, Nike and Gatorade did everything to shine on MJ's strengths and never showed weaknesses. They did so much for MJ that he appeared to be a better defender than Pippen which Phil Jackson completely disputed in his book.

In terms of finances, MJ hurt the NBA big time. When he demanded $36 million a year for 1996-1998, he created the current cap structure that is crippling the NBA. His greed got us to where we are today in a fierce lockout battle.

If fans could be completely objective, they'd see that MJ did more to hurt the NBA than help it. Just because he's a top 3 player of all time doesn't mean he was good for the NBA. The Bird and Magic era of the 80's was just better.

This doesn't make sense, Jordan's greed didn't destroy the league it was the greed of players like KG who right after a rookie salary wanted 6 year deals of 120 million and he got it. Jordan only demanded that 30 million those years because he came in the league and had a 8 year deal worth 2.5 million.
In 1996 Ewing was making 18 million.
Actually what killed some of these contracts was Larry Bird which is why we have the Bird's rights now.

And MJ was a better defender than Scottie at least from 1988-1993 while Scottie was better from 1994-1998.

driz
07-07-2011, 04:02 PM
Lebron ruined the NBA.

AIRMAR72
07-07-2011, 04:03 PM
Great post. It is amazing how much the media forces MJ down everyone's throats. The guy was good, but he wasn't near as good as everyone makes him out to be. Before he got the best coach of all time (Phil), the best perimeter defender of all time (Pippen) and a bunch of other phenomenal role players around him (Grant, Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr, Paxson, Harper, etc.), he was just a scorer like young Vince Carter, young Tracy McGrady or similar. He wasn't this amazing winner until he was surrounded by greatness. People always forget that.
OK young partner are you feeling ill or just hating typing garbage