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Mile High Champ
07-06-2011, 05:57 PM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last three years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 3 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best

2011 SG Rankings

1) Dwyane Wade
2) Kobe Bryant
3) Manu Ginobili
4) Joe Johnson
5) Monta Ellis
6) Kevin Martin
7) Ray Allen
8) Eric Gordon
9) Jason Terry
10) James Harden



2010 Off-Season SG Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwyane Wade
3) Brandon Roy
4) Joe Johnson
5) Manu Ginobili
6) Monta Ellis
7) Ray Allen
8) Stephen Jackson
9) O.J. Mayo
10) Jason Richardson

2009 Off-Season SG Rankings:

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwayne Wade
3) Brandon Roy
4) Joe Johnson
5) Vince Carter
6) Manu Ginobili
7) Ray Allen
8) Kevin Martin
9) Ben Gordon
10) Richard Hamilton

2008 Off-Season SG rankings:

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwayne Wade
3) Tracy McGrady
4) Allen Iverson
5) Manu Ginobili
5) Vince Carter
7) Joe Johnson
8) Ray Allen
9) Brandon Roy
10) Kevin Martin

Chacarron
07-06-2011, 05:59 PM
James Harden.

Mile High Champ
07-06-2011, 06:00 PM
Sorry for the dealy but poll 10 is now up.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
07-06-2011, 06:03 PM
James Harden.

this

tcav701
07-06-2011, 06:06 PM
Tough for me between Reke and Harden but I went with Evans.

I think he can be a 20/7/7 guy with good defense.

Baller1
07-06-2011, 06:10 PM
HARDEN. About time.

The April Fool
07-06-2011, 06:14 PM
Tyreke Evans.

Evans played this past season with an injured foot but he still is a superior player to Harden right now. Evans jumper improved this season and he still plays good defense.

SportsFanatic10
07-06-2011, 06:15 PM
the beard

Hawkeye15
07-06-2011, 06:18 PM
Harden for me, but I have no doubt Reke will re-establish himself quickly when the season eventually starts

Khalifa21
07-06-2011, 06:18 PM
I love Harden, but it's gotta be Tyreke... He should've gone ahead of Terry.

Master Mind
07-06-2011, 06:24 PM
No love for Stephen Jackson? He always helps my fantasy team :shrug:

NYKnicksAllDay
07-06-2011, 06:27 PM
James Harden

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-06-2011, 06:28 PM
No disrespect to Harden, but in no way is he a better player than Tyreke Evans.

You have to realize that Harden is the 3rd option for his team. He doesn't have to deal with the double teams that Tyreke has to deal with.

He has Durant on the floor with him. As a result, Harden gets a ton of good looks.

Tyreke doesn't have that advantage. He gets double teamed and has to earn every single bucket he gets. On top of that, he is a playmaker that can occasionally get others involved.

I like Harden. I fear the beard. But he is just not as good an overall player as Tyreke Evans. It would be a shame if he was voted ahead of Tyreke.

sixer04fan
07-06-2011, 06:34 PM
I guess Stephen Jackson is the most underrated player on this site...

SugeKnight
07-06-2011, 06:46 PM
It has to be Tyreke. Other teams game plans revolve around stopping Evans when they play the kings and he still gets his. Harden gets to come off the bench as the 3rd scoring option.

If they were to switch roles it would be funny to see people say Harden is better

CHANGO
07-06-2011, 06:46 PM
Stephen Jackson... He is underrated. Yes... Maybe the other two boys are on the rise now while Jackson is on decline, but these rankings are from last season. Jackson plays better defense than both, and put better numbers. How that is not enough?

SugeKnight
07-06-2011, 06:48 PM
No disrespect to Harden, but in no way is he a better player than Tyreke Evans.

You have to realize that Harden is the 3rd option for his team. He doesn't have to deal with the double teams that Tyreke has to deal with.

He has Durant on the floor with him. As a result, Harden gets a ton of good looks.

Tyreke doesn't have that advantage. He gets double teamed and has to earn every single bucket he gets. On top of that, he is a playmaker that can occasionally get others involved.

I like Harden. I fear the beard. But he is just not as good an overall player as Tyreke Evans. It would be a shame if he was voted ahead of Tyreke.

:clap:

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-06-2011, 06:50 PM
Harden. But I think Tyreke should climb in to the list next year.

Master Mind
07-06-2011, 07:00 PM
I guess Stephen Jackson is the most underrated player on this site...


Stephen Jackson... He is underrated. Yes... Maybe the other two boys are on the rise now while Jackson is on decline, but these rankings are from last season. Jackson plays better defense than both, and put better numbers. How that is not enough?

Agreed

MiamiWadeCounty
07-06-2011, 07:17 PM
This is getting ridiculous. Reke should have been like number 8 or 9 at the very worst. Harden is a solid player but not as good as Reke. Evans was injured the whole year and outside of shooting he was still better than Harden on defense, assisting, and rebounding. He also gets to the hoop better and is the leader of his team.

tbone2171
07-06-2011, 07:36 PM
Cap'n Jack

aussie
07-06-2011, 07:43 PM
jamesy boy

Swashcuff
07-06-2011, 07:57 PM
No Tony Allen I'm not voting. Tony Allen defensive worth/impact alone was greater than all these players overall game this past season. It's a damn shame he didn't even make the poll, a damn shame.

Hawkeye15
07-06-2011, 07:57 PM
to the Reke defenders, I feel ya. A healthy Reke is multiple spots higher than this. But he wasn't healthy, didn't have the best season, and everyone needs to see that he is 100% again. I think most agree that if he is, he jumps quite a few spots into the top 5 easily

Hawkeye15
07-06-2011, 07:59 PM
No Tony Allen I'm not voting. Tony Allen defensive worth alone was greater than all these players overall game. It's a damn shame he didn't even make the poll, a damn shame.

he has a great case for being a spot higher than this, but defensive specialists who play 21 mpg just don't get the respect, nor should they possibly, as some others.

Swashcuff
07-06-2011, 08:15 PM
he has a great case for being a spot higher than this, but defensive specialists who play 21 mpg just don't get the respect, nor should they possibly, as some others.

When he got his time as a starter he proved to be much more than a defensive specialist.

Only until Allen found his niche was when he started showing his true worth. Despite the fact that he played such few minutes his impact was undeniable. Had he been an important part of the rotation (or at least first man off the bench) for the entire season I have no doubt that he could have help the Grizz to another couple wins just on his defense alone.

LTBaByyy
07-06-2011, 08:23 PM
Tyreke was injured all year and avg 18/5/5!!!!!

:speechless: Has to be him.

Swashcuff
07-06-2011, 08:23 PM
Tyreke was injured all year and avg 20/5/5!!!!!

:speechless: Has to be him.

This is not volume III its volume IV :confused:

Hawkeye15
07-06-2011, 08:45 PM
When he got his time as a starter he proved to be much more than a defensive specialist.

Only until Allen found his niche was when he started showing his true worth. Despite the fact that he played such few minutes his impact was undeniable. Had he been an important part of the rotation (or at least first man off the bench) for the entire season I have no doubt that he could have help the Grizz to another couple wins just on his defense alone.

I agree with all of this. But a player who plays less than 21 mpg, and doesn't hit the scoring column stands no chance in these polls. Lets hope that the Grizz learned to give him more burn next season.

Sadds The Gr8
07-06-2011, 08:46 PM
Demar Derozan! RAPS 4 LYFE

Hawkeye15
07-06-2011, 08:52 PM
Demar Derozan! RAPS 4 LYFE

don't worry, he will be in the top 10 in the poll a year from now

dtmagnet
07-06-2011, 09:09 PM
Wow I really disagree with the Harden choice here, don't know why he is so far ahead.

Sadds The Gr8
07-06-2011, 09:11 PM
don't worry, he will be in the top 10 in the poll a year from now

if there's even a season!

LTBaByyy
07-06-2011, 09:18 PM
I would rather have Tyreke and Demar over Harden

If you watched the whole season (not 1 playoff series Harden did amazing) it would be a no brainer Evans and Derozan is better

Kashmir13579
07-06-2011, 09:28 PM
I love Harden, but it's gotta be Tyreke... He should've gone ahead of Terry.

I personally think Harden should've gone ahead of Terry and Gordon. Looking at his stat sheet, Tyreke isn't even in the discussion.

LakersMaster24
07-06-2011, 09:29 PM
Honestly, forget about last season, the stats, everything, and just think like this: Who is a better player overall Tyreke Evans or James Harden? or Demar Derozan or James Harden?

Derozan > Harden.

Evans > Harden.

Kashmir13579
07-06-2011, 09:30 PM
Stephen Jackson... He is underrated. Yes... Maybe the other two boys are on the rise now while Jackson is on decline, but these rankings are from last season. Jackson plays better defense than both, and put better numbers. How that is not enough?

probably because he didn't put up better numbers. Looking at him and Tyreke this season is like having to choose rotten eggs or rotten mayonnaise.

Kashmir13579
07-06-2011, 09:32 PM
Honestly, forget about last season, the stats, everything, and just think like this: Who is a better player overall Tyreke Evans or James Harden? or Demar Derozan or James Harden?

Derozan > Harden.

Evans > Harden.

What kind of world do you live in? what is this, the Kobe argument over Wade only to a much lesser scale?

Master Mind
07-06-2011, 09:33 PM
Harden's a solid player but he isn't Top 10

Master Mind
07-06-2011, 09:34 PM
Appalled at the disrespect for SJax

Kashmir13579
07-06-2011, 09:35 PM
And i'm not saying that Crawford gets in over Harden (i voted for Crawford:p) but Crawford, from a logical standpoint, deserves this spot over Tyreke or Sjax. hands down.

LTBaByyy
07-06-2011, 09:39 PM
Evans > Derozan > Harden

What does Harden do better than those 2????

If Harden gets in the line up next year he will do even worse sharing the ball with Durant and Westbrook

Thats why he has been in the 6th man role til this day!

Kashmir13579
07-06-2011, 09:46 PM
Evans > Derozan > Harden

What does Harden do better than those 2????

If Harden gets in the line up next year he will do even worse sharing the ball with Durant and Westbrook

Thats why he has been in the 6th man role til this day!

He's a much better shooter, scorer, per 100 possessions he turns the ball over much less than Tyreke, and most importantly, he helps get his team wins. He was an incredibly important part of the Thunder's success.

Tyreke's inefficient scoring makes his edge in distribution irrelevant.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=hardeja01&y1=2011&p2=evansty01&y2=2011&p3=derozde01&y3=2011

There is no logical reason to pick either of those 2 over Harden.

LTBaByyy
07-06-2011, 09:54 PM
He's a much better shooter, scorer, per 100 possessions he turns the ball over much less than Tyreke, and most importantly, he helps get his team wins. He was an incredibly important part of the Thunder's success.

Tyreke's inefficient scoring makes his edge in distribution irrelevant.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=hardeja01&y1=2011&p2=evansty01&y2=2011&p3=derozde01&y3=2011

There is no logical reason to pick either of those 2 over Harden.

No buddy, Durant and Westbrook does

I think you are only looking at a few games during the playoffs

He was actually inconsistent in the playoffs, one game he plays AMAZING, the next 2 or 3 he plays bad or average (the reason why he only avg 13 pts in 5 more minutes a game than the regular season)

You might be only looking at what, the 3 games when he played amazing and scored over 20 points?

Swashcuff
07-06-2011, 09:58 PM
No buddy, Durant and Westbrook does

I think you are only looking at a few games during the playoffs

He was actually inconsistent in the playoffs, one game he plays AMAZING, the next 2 or 3 he plays bad or average (the reason why he only avg 13 pts in 5 more minutes a game than the regular season)

You might be only looking at what, the 3 games when he played amazing and scored over 20 points?

For the second time Tyreke did not score 20 ppg last season.

LTBaByyy
07-06-2011, 10:03 PM
For the second time Tyreke did not score 20 ppg last season.

Random??? :)

What does that have to do with anything? lol

Swashcuff
07-06-2011, 10:05 PM
Random??? :)

What does that have to do with anything? lol


Tyreke was injured all year and avg 20/5/5!!!!!

:speechless: Has to be him.

Because you didn't reply to that post which you based your reasoning on.

LTBaByyy
07-06-2011, 10:08 PM
Because you didn't reply to that post which you based your reasoning on.

Did you not go back to the post?

I edited it like literally 5 seconds after and put 18

Swashcuff
07-06-2011, 10:10 PM
Did you not go back to the post?

I edited it like literally 5 seconds after and put 18

You edited it after I corrected you.

Any who I am not going to get into a statistical debate with you.

Kashmir13579
07-06-2011, 10:11 PM
No buddy, Durant and Westbrook does

I think you are only looking at a few games during the playoffs

He was actually inconsistent in the playoffs, one game he plays AMAZING, the next 2 or 3 he plays bad or average (the reason why he only avg 13 pts in 5 more minutes a game than the regular season)

You might be only looking at what, the 3 games when he played amazing and scored over 20 points?

ummm... i don't even know where to begin. if you clicked the link you'd see it was 82 regular season games. i wasn't looking at playoff games at all.

I could tell just by watching every game that Harden played out of his mind in the playoffs. i didn't even have to look at the stats to tell you that. Now i am looking at playoff stats. It says here, that Harden (in the 2011 playoffs) out-performed his regular season averages in these areas: PER, TS%, eFG%, Rebounding, AST%, WSs, ORtg, DRtg, and blocks. The only area that he regressed in was turnovers (by a marginal percentage at best)

so tell me, am i only looking at 3 games? or was i originally looking at his regular season numbers, and have now moved on to his far superior playoff numbers?

And answer me this, If Harden's reg. season stats are much better than Reke or Demar's, and Harden's playoff stats are much better than his own reg. season stats, what logical and quite obvious conclusion should that lead you to?

You don't have to answer those last two questions as they were purely rhetorical.

LTBaByyy
07-06-2011, 10:13 PM
You edited it after I corrected you.

Any who I am not going to get into a statistical debate with you.

Naw it was literally like 5 seconds lol

Thats why I didnt know what you were talking about bc I didnt even see your post lol

If I edited after you said something you would see "Last edited...."

At the bottom of my post

Kashmir13579
07-06-2011, 10:14 PM
You edited it after I corrected you.

Any who I am not going to get into a statistical debate with you.

Its funny because there is no statistical debate. Its pretty much black and white.

ChiSox219
07-06-2011, 10:21 PM
Wow I really disagree with the Harden choice here, don't know why he is so far ahead.

Because he's a great player. Should have already been off the board.


I would rather have Tyreke and Demar over Harden

If you watched the whole season (not 1 playoff series Harden did amazing) it would be a no brainer Evans and Derozan is better

I watched most of the Thunder's regular season games and saw them in person. You are wrong.


Honestly, forget about last season, the stats, everything, and just think like this: Who is a better player overall Tyreke Evans or James Harden? or Demar Derozan or James Harden?

Derozan > Harden.

Evans > Harden.

Forget about the flashy highlights and just think, who would most help my team win a championship. Hint: James Harden.

Kashmir13579
07-06-2011, 10:24 PM
Because he's a great player. Should have already been off the board.



I watched most of the Thunder's regular season games and saw them in person. You are wrong.



Forget about the flashy highlights and just think, who would most help my team win a championship. Hint: James Harden.

haha. good post. i agree with all of it. especially the bolded part.

Swashcuff
07-06-2011, 10:42 PM
haha. good post. i agree with all of it. especially the bolded part.

Really?

James Harden a great player? There are only 2 (3 if Roy was 100%) great SGs in the NBA. James Harden isn't. He's a quality player by no means great.

Eagles4Lyfe
07-06-2011, 11:30 PM
Wow how the heck is tyreak not winning?? Dude is already underrated from these polls

M.Bibby2.0
07-06-2011, 11:59 PM
Tyreke > Harden period. you can babble on about efficiencies and numbers all you want Tyreke is a number one option on his team and is the player on his team that defenses focus on, Harden is what the 3rd maybe fourth option? Not to mention the defenses he's scoring so efficiently against are focused on DURANT and WESTBROOK. Other than score the ball efficiently reke is better at everything else. Defense, Rebounding, Natural PG skills, Passing, scoring in the clutch, driving to the hoop and making defenses collapse around him. This is silly really, he had a bad year with an injury that impeded his ability to do what he does best : get to the hoop. Yet he was still top 8 at FGA at the rim per game. Come on now Jason Terry isn't better than Tyreke here either, anyone who says differently is just looking at a players ability to shoot the ball. There is more to basketball than that.

M.Bibby2.0
07-07-2011, 12:04 AM
probably because he didn't put up better numbers. Looking at him and Tyreke this season is like having to choose rotten eggs or rotten mayonnaise.

Do you even consider each players circumstances or just take a gander at the offensive shooting numbers and decide who is better?

:O Look! Harden is efficient!?!? well you'd certainly hope so when he has two all stars that opposing defenses have to worry about.

Sadds The Gr8
07-07-2011, 12:09 AM
Wow how the heck is tyreak not winning?? Dude is already underrated from these polls

even though he was injured, he was bad this year,

Sportfan
07-07-2011, 12:09 AM
lol



Tyreke is better than like half this list. I'll take him over Ray, Monta, Terry and Gordon.

Sportfan
07-07-2011, 12:12 AM
Tyreke is better at everything except the 3 point shot when compared to Harden. It's not his fault he doest get to play with a Durant or Westbrook

Kashmir13579
07-07-2011, 12:47 AM
Really?

James Harden a great player? There are only 2 (3 if Roy was 100%) great SGs in the NBA. James Harden isn't. He's a quality player by no means great.
Well, this is the vote for the #10 spot. who said anything about great? not that i don't think Harden could be great one day.

Do you even consider each players circumstances or just take a gander at the offensive shooting numbers and decide who is better?

:O Look! Harden is efficient!?!? well you'd certainly hope so when he has two all stars that opposing defenses have to worry about.

I get what you're saying but there are other ways to look at it. It isn't easy to be on a team with two ball-dominant players and have the kind of effect on the outcome of a game that Harden has.

Demar and Tyreke on the other hand, are both pretty much no.1 options who had mediocre seasons. (Tyreke's season bordered on awful) I don't see how we should reward them for that when Harden has pretty much proven himself as a real-deal player.

Your argument also insinuates that Demar and Tyreke would be able to perform as well as Harden has in a similar situation. That means reducing shot attempts, taking the ball out of their hands, and pretty much relying on them to be as good of a shooter and facilitator as Harden.

Harden is pretty much the ultimate glue guy and there is nothing wrong with that. He shouldn't be penalized for it.

M.Bibby2.0
07-07-2011, 01:40 AM
Well, this is the vote for the #10 spot. who said anything about great? not that i don't think Harden could be great one day.


I get what you're saying but there are other ways to look at it. It isn't easy to be on a team with two ball-dominant players and have the kind of effect on the outcome of a game that Harden has.

Demar and Tyreke on the other hand, are both pretty much no.1 options who had mediocre seasons. (Tyreke's season bordered on awful) I don't see how we should reward them for that when Harden has pretty much proven himself as a real-deal player.

Your argument also insinuates that Demar and Tyreke would be able to perform as well as Harden has in a similar situation. That means reducing shot attempts, taking the ball out of their hands, and pretty much relying on them to be as good of a shooter and facilitator as Harden.

Harden is pretty much the ultimate glue guy and there is nothing wrong with that. He shouldn't be penalized for it.

Your basis for your argument is shooting the ball, of coarse you'd think Harden is the best player... Tyreke is better at EVERYTHING else. better playmaker, passer, rebounder. and here's a surprise Harden FG% was 2.6% better, yes its safe to assume tyreke would shoot the ball 3% better with Durant and Westbrooke on the court. If Harden is a top 10 SG he would get more than 26 mpg i would think yes?

LakersIn5
07-07-2011, 02:48 AM
still cant believe that JJ is 4th and terry is top 9??? WTH? just because he played well in the playoffs in the finals. he just had the best opportunity. stephen jackson and tyreke evans is still better than him.

ChiSox219
07-07-2011, 02:49 AM
Really?

James Harden a great player? There are only 2 (3 if Roy was 100%) great SGs in the NBA. James Harden isn't. He's a quality player by no means great.

Semantics, no need to sidetrack the topic over "great" or "good" or any other adjective. Harden is a top 10 SG.


Tyreke is better at everything except the 3 point shot when compared to Harden. It's not his fault he doest get to play with a Durant or Westbrook

Harden gets to the line more often and that's with fewer possessions. I consider getting to the FT line one of, if not the most important offensive skills for a player to possess. Now the difference isn't huge but when you consider that Tyreke has more possessions and still gets to the line less, that's a big advantage for Harden.

Harden is a better shooter, we are talking Shooting Guards, no need to downplay the difference in skill in that area.

Harden is better in isolation. People keep mentioning Durant and Westbrook helping Harden so why not look at Iso, especially when most would consider Tyreke a solid Iso guy because of his handles, explosiveness, and ability to finish.

Harden: .99 Points Per Play (26th), 13% of the time he draws a shooting foul
Evans: .77 Points Per Play (154th), 5% draw shooting foul

The disparity is even greater when it comes to the pick n roll

Harden: .96 PPP, 13.6 TO%
Evans: .65 PPP, 18.9 TO%

Those two play types alone, account for over half of Tyreke's plays (51.7%) and 36.1% of Harden's plays. Harden gets a lot more spot up opportunities and that's where Durant/Westbrook would help get open looks.

Transition:

Harden: scores on 66% of his plays (1.36 PPP) while shooting just 24.5% from 3 (49 attempts, 197 plays)
Evans: scores 55% of the time (1.1 PPP) going 1-5 3PA on 242 plays.


Defensively, I think Harden has an advantage but he also has some solid defensive teammates so I will try not to hold this against Evans.

I'm sure most consider Tyreke a better distributor, I think he just has the ball in his hands more often. Harden is an underrated distributor or at least was until he basically ran Point during the playoffs.

Baller1
07-07-2011, 03:31 AM
It seems like some of you don't even watch teams other than your own... :laugh:

Harden is the best guard to come out of the '09 draft. Been saying' it for 2 years now.

tyfreaks brotha
07-07-2011, 04:51 AM
How in the hell did Terry win the ninth position? He did great and all but he was a 6th man! A better player like Reke or Harden hell even Derozen. But oh well. Hard to chose but I would bet my money that Reke becomes the better player in the future considering on how well he is healthy.

tyfreaks brotha
07-07-2011, 04:56 AM
Actually kinda sad.. If you look at there games Reke is more of a future all star.. He's exactly how Dwade was when he began his nba career. Both very good at driving the ball to the rim but not the best shooters out there. Time will only make better. Besides it's not like he plays with the type of players Harden does.

Kashmir13579
07-07-2011, 06:50 AM
Your basis for your argument is shooting the ball, of coarse you'd think Harden is the best player... Tyreke is better at EVERYTHING else. better playmaker, passer, rebounder. and here's a surprise Harden FG% was 2.6% better, yes its safe to assume tyreke would shoot the ball 3% better with Durant and Westbrooke on the court. If Harden is a top 10 SG he would get more than 26 mpg i would think yes?

Better playmaker and passer are almost the same thing. so actually you only named 2 things that he's better at. one being passing; seeing that Reke has the ball in his hands a little bit more this doesn't really stick out to me. PLUS, if you watched the playoffs you should know Harden can pass the **** outa the rock. He can get to the hoop and when the defense collapses, he knows where the ball is going. The other being rebounding.

You say i'm basing my argument only on shooting. What are you basing your argument on? A barely noteworthy lead in rebounding and a few extra dimes? that doesn't account for all of the other blunders on Tyreke's stat sheet.

Harden is a pure shooter, Tyreke is not. Tyreke is a ball dominant volume scorer, Harden is a ballhawk who can thrive off the ball. i don't think its safe to assume Tyreke's TS% and eFG% would match Hardens in a similar situation. They are completely different players.

Tyreke had an AWFUL season, injuries or no injuries. Harden had an amazing year and an even better playoffs. So what is the issue here?

J-Relo
07-07-2011, 07:56 AM
Tyreke evans.

gsgs49
07-07-2011, 08:04 AM
James Harden here.
MHC will you make a #1 SF poll or will you skip it?
It would be funny like hell.

Swashcuff
07-07-2011, 08:45 AM
Well, this is the vote for the #10 spot. who said anything about great? not that i don't think Harden could be great one day.


Semantics, no need to sidetrack the topic over "great" or "good" or any other adjective. Harden is a top 10 SG.

Sidetrack?

I didn't sidetrack anything. You should have corrected yourself when you state that he's a great player because he's not.

Swashcuff
07-07-2011, 08:55 AM
It seems like some of you don't even watch teams other than your own... :laugh:

Harden is the best guard to come out of the '09 draft. Been saying' it for 2 years now.

:clap:

Classic case of contradiction.

I wonder how much you watch the Kings the Warriors the 76ers and the Nuggets? Each one of those teams have players with stronger cases than Harden over their first 2 years.

You overrate Harden so much it isn't even funny. Give the man his time let him grow.

MiamiWadeCounty
07-07-2011, 09:09 AM
Agreed. This poll should be Tyreke, if not him than Sjax. People keep on praising Harden. Yeah he's a good player but when is 12, 3, 2 so amazing and great.

Eagles4Lyfe
07-07-2011, 09:14 AM
Wow the NBA forum once again living up to its reputation

Eagles4Lyfe
07-07-2011, 09:16 AM
even though he was injured, he was bad this year,

Dude, your saying harden's better than tyreak??? Ill take tyreke anyday of the week over harden, even coming into that draft I saw wade like abilities in Evans and i still see it.
Did you forget derrick rose broke his ankles and ever since then he couldn't regain his form but can't discredit what you've seen.
I still think tyreke can be a sick combo guard and become wade-like. Ill trade anything on the craptors roster for him anyday

Raidaz4Life
07-07-2011, 09:18 AM
Tyreke Evans pretty easily.

ChiSox219
07-07-2011, 09:40 AM
Sidetrack?

I didn't sidetrack anything. You should have corrected yourself when you state that he's a great player because he's not.

Again, it's sematics and arguing over it is sidetracking the thread. A great player may mean top 10 to you or top 50 to me, not saying thats the case but arguing over adjectives is a waste of time.

Master Mind
07-07-2011, 10:17 AM
Lol @ Harden leading

Eagles4Lyfe
07-07-2011, 11:00 AM
we should make these polls a public voting so we see who votes for what.

Master Mind
07-07-2011, 11:02 AM
we should make these polls a public voting so we see who votes for what.

It is

roshan3ai
07-07-2011, 11:02 AM
They are public. Just click on the numbers. http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=37810

Crackadalic
07-07-2011, 11:27 AM
Arent we rating how good a player was THIS season? Why are we rating players how good they were years ago? If that was the case B-roy still would have been the 3rd best sg right now

roshan3ai
07-07-2011, 11:32 AM
It's not on a specific season. It's just how good they are period. I think... :laugh2: But Roy will never be the same player. He has no knees. There's no way he's top 10

Sadds The Gr8
07-07-2011, 11:35 AM
Arent we rating how good a player was THIS season? Why are we rating players how good they were years ago? If that was the case B-roy still would have been the 3rd best sg right now

exactly. that's why Tyreke shouldnt be on the list

Sadds The Gr8
07-07-2011, 11:36 AM
Dude, your saying harden's better than tyreak??? Ill take tyreke anyday of the week over harden, even coming into that draft I saw wade like abilities in Evans and i still see it.
Did you forget derrick rose broke his ankles and ever since then he couldn't regain his form but can't discredit what you've seen.
I still think tyreke can be a sick combo guard and become wade-like. Ill trade anything on the craptors roster for him anyday

Harden was better this year, even though i don't think he's a top 10 SG either. As for who i'd rather have? i dunno. Harden's abilities are limited because he plays with 2 all-stars (one who's a superstar and one who's about to become a superstar.) I think he can put up similar numbers to what Tyreke puts up on Sactown if he was the #1 option. i think his efficiency would be lower than it'd be with OKC though.

Crackadalic
07-07-2011, 11:37 AM
It's not on a specific season. It's just how good they are period. I think... :laugh2: But Roy will never be the same player. He has no knees. There's no way he's top 10

No the reason why we have this every year is how good they were THIS season

Tyrek Evans is top 10 sg material and the most talented out of the available sg left but his play this year suck and he was not that good. How can you put him there then? I know the rest of the list is suspect but of the available sg left now Harden had the best season out of all of them and Harden was ballin in the playoffs

MFFL==FML
07-07-2011, 12:57 PM
If Sacramento called and asked for a straight up swap of Harden for Evans, OKC would jizz themselves.... Evans is by far a better player than Harden... not to mention he has way more upside. I have no idea how Harden is winning this poll.... oh wait, PSD poll, nevermind.

ChiSox219
07-07-2011, 01:10 PM
Harden was better this year, even though i don't think he's a top 10 SG either. As for who i'd rather have? i dunno. Harden's abilities are limited because he plays with 2 all-stars (one who's a superstar and one who's about to become a superstar.) I think he can put up similar numbers to what Tyreke puts up on Sactown if he was the #1 option. i think his efficiency would be lower than it'd be with OKC though.

I agree, great post. I think a lot of people saw Tyreke put up 20-5-5 with flash and athleticism. Harden, with the same amount of minutes and possession could post similar averages but better overall efficiency even when you factor in the drop in efficiency often caused by a spike in usage.


If Sacramento called and asked for a straight up swap of Harden for Evans, OKC would jizz themselves.... Evans is by far a better player than Harden... not to mention he has way more upside. I have no idea how Harden is winning this poll.... oh wait, PSD poll, nevermind.

OKC would say no, it wouldn't be the first time they chose Harden over Evans...

Master Mind
07-07-2011, 01:21 PM
Arent we rating how good a player was THIS season? Why are we rating players how good they were years ago? If that was the case B-roy still would have been the 3rd best sg right now

If this is the case then SJax should be leading

ChiSox219
07-07-2011, 01:21 PM
I mentioned how underrated Harden's passing is, here is the assist-to-bad pass ratio of both players:

Harden - 6.1 ast/bad pass
Evans - 3.9

Sadds The Gr8
07-07-2011, 01:28 PM
I agree, great post. I think a lot of people saw Tyreke put up 20-5-5 with flash and athleticism. Harden, with the same amount of minutes and possession could post similar averages but better overall efficiency even when you factor in the drop in efficiency often caused by a spike in usage.

yup. that 20-5-5 is the only reason Evans is getting votes. his advanced stats were garbage this year.

If this is the case then SJax should be leading
why do u keep bringing him up? he's inefficient as hell, his offensive numbers are atrocious (-0.2 OWS = :Puke: -- 98 ORTG = :facepalm: -- 14.6 PER = below average and his shooting %s are bad.) Just because he averages 20 ppg doesn't mean he's good. he's NOT a top 10 SG.

kingsdelez24
07-07-2011, 01:41 PM
Who in their right mind would say that harden is better than captain jack or tyreke? he comes off the bench to shoot open threes while tyreke handles double teams and earns his points.... too many thunderwhores here

Master Mind
07-07-2011, 01:43 PM
yup. that 20-5-5 is the only reason Evans is getting votes. his advanced stats were garbage this year.

why do u keep bringing him up? he's inefficient as hell, his offensive numbers are atrocious (-0.2 OWS = :Puke: -- 98 ORTG = :facepalm: -- 14.6 PER = below average and his shooting %s are bad.) Just because he averages 20 ppg doesn't mean he's good. he's NOT a top 10 SG.

Still had a better season than Harden

kingsdelez24
07-07-2011, 01:44 PM
^ win

Htownballa1622
07-07-2011, 02:18 PM
This sg top ten was wrong from the time joe johnson went number four and terry went top 10.

Sportfan
07-07-2011, 02:51 PM
Go Tyreke!

GREATNESS ONE
07-07-2011, 03:11 PM
This sg top ten was wrong from the time joe johnson went number four and terry went top 10.

:clap: Agreed.

Sadds The Gr8
07-07-2011, 03:12 PM
Still had a better season than Harden

lol no he didn't. it's not even close actually.

D-Will4Prez
07-07-2011, 03:26 PM
Stephen Jackson and Jamal Crawford are both extremely underrated. Crawford's got the silght edge for me though.

LTBaByyy
07-07-2011, 03:26 PM
Tyreke > Derozan > Jackson > Harden

MiamiWadeCounty
07-07-2011, 03:32 PM
I mentioned how underrated Harden's passing is, here is the assist-to-bad pass ratio of both players:

Harden - 6.1 ast/bad pass
Evans - 3.9

Harden - 13 AST%
Evans - 26 AST%

Harden sets up for jumpshots and doesn't pass that much. As a result he will have a better ratio. Tyreke passes almost twice as much and breaks players down off the dribble. His passing is more on the fly and difficult compared to Harden's.

M.Bibby2.0
07-07-2011, 03:37 PM
Better playmaker and passer are almost the same thing. so actually you only named 2 things that he's better at. one being passing; seeing that Reke has the ball in his hands a little bit more this doesn't really stick out to me. PLUS, if you watched the playoffs you should know Harden can pass the **** outa the rock. He can get to the hoop and when the defense collapses, he knows where the ball is going. The other being rebounding.

You say i'm basing my argument only on shooting. What are you basing your argument on? A barely noteworthy lead in rebounding and a few extra dimes? that doesn't account for all of the other blunders on Tyreke's stat sheet.

Harden is a pure shooter, Tyreke is not. Tyreke is a ball dominant volume scorer, Harden is a ballhawk who can thrive off the ball. i don't think its safe to assume Tyreke's TS% and eFG% would match Hardens in a similar situation. They are completely different players.

Tyreke had an AWFUL season, injuries or no injuries. Harden had an amazing year and an even better playoffs. So what is the issue here?

This is a classic case, half of the people are just looking at the numbers, and the half that is voting for Tyreke are looking at overall talent and upside. Tyreke was asked to LEAD a team that doesn't have a of talent while injured this year, ofcoarse his efficiency suffered. Harden was asked to come off of the bench, and his might be 4-5 most valuable player on his team. Two very different scenarios, numbers don't tell the whole story.

Passing and play making are not the same thing either, making a play involves manipulating the defense to set up a basket for yourself or a teammate, a responsibility that is mostly Westbrook's and Durant's on the thunder.
Passing is the actual set up itself, "a couple more dimes" or 3.5 apg more accounts for 7-9 points more per game and he certainly doesn't have durant or wesbrook to help get him these apples. No comparison in the passing and playmaking department and no need to downplay its importance. Same with rebounding, it has value especially when it leads to second chance points. If youre looking at just a single year, and just the numbers to decide who is the 10th best sg that's fine, I'm considering what each player is being asked to do, the circumstances they're in, which has a more vast skill set, and which one will be a star in this league, and not just a third wheel.

MiamiWadeCounty
07-07-2011, 03:43 PM
Great post ^^. This will be pathetic if Harden wins over Tyreke. Terry shouldn't have been over Tyreke either but at least he won a title.

Sadds The Gr8
07-07-2011, 03:53 PM
Great post ^^. This will be pathetic if Harden wins over Tyreke. Terry shouldn't have been over Tyreke either but at least he won a title.

how? Tyreke was absolutely brutal injured or not...Harden and Terry are miles more efficient. I don't see why Harden couldn't put up the per game stats that Evans could if he was on a crap team.

ChiSox219
07-07-2011, 03:53 PM
Harden - 13 AST%
Evans - 26 AST%

Harden sets up for jumpshots and doesn't pass that much. As a result he will have a better ratio. Tyreke passes almost twice as much and breaks players down off the dribble. His passing is more on the fly and difficult compared to Harden's.

Someone mentioned earlier, Harden always knows what to do with the ball. So when he drives and the defense collapses, he hits his teammate in the chest. Tyreke throws it into the third row (not every time, point being Harden is under control). You act like Harden never drives, even though he gets to the line more often than Evans. A couple pages ago I posted some numbers showing how much more successful Harden was in isolation.

Not sure why you post the Ast% and then mention how often Harden spots up. Get rid of Westbrook and Harden handles the ball more, spots up less, and Ast% goes up. Hell, it was nearly 20% during the playoffs even with Westbrook.

Sportfan
07-07-2011, 03:57 PM
how? Tyreke was absolutely brutal injured or not...Harden and Terry are miles more efficient. I don't see why Harden couldn't put up the per game stats that Evans could if he was on a crap team.
Harden has never shown to lead a team even when Durant is off. Tyreke has

ChiSox219
07-07-2011, 04:00 PM
Harden has never shown to lead a team even when Durant is off. Tyreke has

He hung 51 on Nick Young the other day.

Baller1
07-07-2011, 04:26 PM
Put Harden on the Kings and he wins Rookie of the Year and puts up the same numbers than Tyreke.

Baller1
07-07-2011, 04:29 PM
He hung 51 on Nick Young the other day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLLybPG6284

Kashmir13579
07-07-2011, 04:31 PM
Tyreke > Derozan > Jackson > Harden

I love posts like this. Absolutely no substance behind them and we're just supposed to assume you know what you're talking about. btw, Crawford arguably had a better year than Derozan and he definitely had a better year than Jackson and Tyreke.

Kashmir13579
07-07-2011, 04:38 PM
Sidetrack?

I didn't sidetrack anything. You should have corrected yourself when you state that he's a great player because he's not.

He is a great player, and a "special" NBA player. Is that better? Like the other guy said, its semantics. If you think somebody else deserves this spot, why don't you show me why?

SteBO
07-07-2011, 04:42 PM
Tyreke > Derozan > Jackson > Harden
James Harden was better than Tyreke Evans this year, so I don't see how this list makes sense. Harden is so much more efficient than Evans is.

Kashmir13579
07-07-2011, 04:48 PM
James Harden was better than Tyreke Evans this year, so I don't see how this list makes sense. Harden is so much more efficient than Evans is.

When i showed him the numbers and explained to him just how wrong he is, he slunked out for a bit. This was his first post upon returning; completely disregarding any prior conversations or posts in this thread. He has literally nothing to back it up his opinion. His no.1 reason why Tyreke is better is because "Harden had a crappy playoffs". Statements like that lead others to believe the person making the statement didn't watch the playoffs at all.

J-Relo
07-07-2011, 05:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLLybPG6284

I changed my mind! Harden deserves the 10th spot for his BEARD :speechless::D

MagicBucsSox
07-07-2011, 05:18 PM
Lolololololol Jason Terry over Evans Jackson Richardson Mayo

MagicBucsSox
07-07-2011, 05:20 PM
James Harden was better than Tyreke Evans this year, so I don't see how this list makes sense. Harden is so much more efficient than Evans is.

When Harden ever avg 20 5 5 (19 5 5 on a bad yr)then your account should be unbanned. He ain't even a sure fire starter on that team. This site tickles me

ManRam
07-07-2011, 05:24 PM
Lolololololol Jason Terry over Evans Jackson Richardson Mayo

Him over Mayo makes 100% sense. I'd take Evans and Jackson over him any day of the week. Richardson wasn't very good for us this season. He's essentially just a three point shooter...as is Terry. That one is close. Terry isn't much better than J-Rich...

Harden is better than him too. Harden has a complete game, something Terry doesn't have.

For the record, I voted Captain Jack here.

SteBO
07-07-2011, 05:52 PM
When Harden ever avg 20 5 5 (19 5 5 on a bad yr)then your account should be unbanned. He ain't even a sure fire starter on that team. This site tickles me
I said this year bud. You're off base on this one I'm afraid. Check the stats Kashmir13579 displayed earlier and you'll see the truth. Harden was better Tyreke Evans this year, and that's a simple fact.

M.Bibby2.0
07-07-2011, 06:21 PM
I apologize in advance for any grammatical errors I'm writing this on my android.
Now I'm in 3rd year mechanical engineering, I understand the value of quantifying reality with numbers. But we're comparing talent, physical ability, and athleticism, numbers don't tell the whole story. a lot of you are clinging to efficiency, which is heavily dependant on the system the player is playing in. by this logic kevin martin is by far the best sg. advanced stats are never going to.help a number one option on a team, and players who play along side of super stars will benefit. harden isn't being asked to lead the team in scoring, and if he was he wouldn't be this efficient.
Now I don't think I'm getting through to any of you who I'm sure feel so superior quoting flawed advanced stats, but this is like saying kmart is better than wade.

Kashmir13579
07-07-2011, 06:28 PM
I apologize in advance for any grammatical errors I'm writing this on my android.
Now I'm in 3rd year mechanical engineering, I understand the value of quantifying reality with numbers. But we're comparing talent, physical ability, and athleticism, numbers don't tell the whole story. a lot of you are clinging to efficiency, which is heavily dependant on the system the player is playing in. by this logic kevin martin is by far the best sg. advanced stats are never going to.help a number one option on a team, and players who play along side of super stars will benefit. harden isn't being asked to lead the team in scoring, and if he was he wouldn't be this efficient.
Now I don't think I'm getting through to any of you who I'm sure feel so superior quoting flawed advanced stats, but this is like saying kmart is better than wade.

Its not just that Harden is more efficient, Tyreke had a terrible year, and thats the bottom line.

kingsdelez24
07-07-2011, 06:45 PM
This is stupid... A guy who is was injured all year and still put up great numbers is beaten by a 6th man who only shoots open threes.... Too many thunderwhores. But hey, what else would you expect from the nba forum

Catfish1314
07-07-2011, 06:50 PM
Saying Harden had a more efficient year than Evans may be true, but people who are ******** on Evans for having a terrible year should understand he played all of his 57 games with plantar fasciitis. For those of you who don't know, it's painful as **** and most players who have it wouldn't dare play with it.


Put Harden on the Kings and he wins Rookie of the Year and puts up the same numbers than Tyreke.

That goes both ways homer. Stick Evans on the Thunder next to Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant, two of the best players in the NBA at their respective position, and Evans puts up WAY better numbers than Harden.

When Tyreke is healthy, he and James Harden aren't that close.

Swashcuff
07-07-2011, 06:58 PM
Saying Harden had a more efficient year than Evans may be true, but people who are ******** on Evans for having a terrible year should understand he played all of his 57 games with plantar fasciitis. For those of you who don't know, it's painful as **** and most players who have it wouldn't dare play with it.



That goes both ways homer. Stick Evans on the Thunder next to Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant, two of the best players in the NBA at their respective position, and Evans puts up WAY better numbers than Harden.

When Tyreke is healthy, he and James Harden aren't that close.

Fully agree, Tyreke is clearly the better player when healthy.

Kashmir13579
07-07-2011, 07:39 PM
Yao Ming is clearly a top 2 center when healthy.

SteBO
07-07-2011, 07:41 PM
Yao Ming is clearly a top 2 center when healthy.
Precisely. This is a year by year poll, therefore Harden should over Evans this year. The stats tell it all, and by watching this year it's evident. When healthy, Brandon Roy is a top 5 SG, yet he isn't according these rankings. In fact, he isn't even going to be a part of the top 10 on these polls. You have to be consistent here guys.

MiamiWadeCounty
07-07-2011, 07:47 PM
The NBA Forum: Where Having a Nice Beard Makes You Better

Catfish1314
07-07-2011, 07:47 PM
Yao Ming is clearly a top 2 center when healthy.

Yao is severely damaged goods. That's a horrible comparison.

Evans had a foot condition that causes no further damage when one plays through it.

My point is Evans and Harden were more than comparable this year when Evans was playing through arguably the most painful injury a player can compete with without it compounding into something worse.

Kashmir13579
07-07-2011, 07:52 PM
Yao is severely damaged goods. That's a horrible comparison.

Evans had a foot condition that causes no further damage when one plays through it.

My point is Evans and Harden were more than comparable this year when Evans was playing through arguably the most painful injury a player can compete with without it compounding into something worse.

Actually i think given the context it was a great comparison. If we're giving the edge to Tyreke because he was injured and we all know if he wasn't he would have performed better than Harden, then we should use that same logic when the C poll comes around and vote in Yao Ming asap. It was a perfectly reasonable comparison.


And just because you people keep saying they were "comparable" this year doesn't make it true. There is countless data proving it isn't the case.

SteBO
07-07-2011, 07:54 PM
Yao is severely damaged goods. That's a horrible comparison.

Evans had a foot condition that causes no further damage when one plays through it.

My point is Evans and Harden were more than comparable this year when Evans was playing through arguably the most painful injury a player can compete with without it compounding into something worse.
And Yao Ming has had a broken foot, something that you can't play basketball on, so it's a fair comparison. The concept is the same as well. We're talking about this year, and this year Harden was better, regardless of health. Even when healthy, Evans wasn't great this year either. Again, Brandon Roy is a top 3 or 4 SG when healthy yet he isn't going to make top 10 on this poll. If that's the case, why should Evans make this list using "lack of health" as your case to get him on this list. You have to be consistent in this spot, and Harden was better this year regardless, so I don't get what the argument is.

Kashmir13579
07-07-2011, 07:55 PM
Also, as Stebo mentioned, If we're going by your logic, why is Brandon Roy still on the board?

Catfish1314
07-07-2011, 08:00 PM
Actually i think given the context it was a great comparison. If we're giving the edge to Tyreke because he was injured and we all know if he wasn't he would have performed better than Harden, then we should use that same logic when the C poll comes around and vote in Yao Ming asap. It was a perfectly reasonable comparison.

Oh context that's fun. When was the last time Yao Ming was even close to 100 percent healthy? Seriously. Evans is a year removed from becoming the fourth player in NBA history to average 20-5-5 as a rookie. He did so as the focal point of the opposition's defense every single night and with respectable efficiency.

When was the last time Yao even played hurt? When Yao is injured, he's really injured. It's usually something disastrous like a fractured foot, a broken ankle, or something damaging to his foundation.

Evans actually played hurt. It's totally different.


And just because you people keep saying they were "comparable" this year doesn't make it true. There is countless data proving it isn't the case.

Jesus, they were comparable. Harden is being severely overrated right now. The guy had a solid season and an even more solid postseason. Evans wasn't as horrible as everyone thinks he was. I watched. It's difficult to cut and penetrate when you feel like a knife is stabbing you in the foot every time you try. Evans has a very, very streaky jumpshot. That's the biggest flaw in his game. And when a penetrator has one of his feet cut off, jumpshooting is mostly all he can do offensively. Putting up the numbers he did with his injury, albeit on a less than sexy 41 percent shooting from the field, is actually very impressive.

Meanwhile Harden gets to play with a superstar and an All-Star, is an afterthought for an opposition's defense, puts up more efficient numbers for 2010-2011, and all of a sudden he's a top ten shooting guard.

MiamiWadeCounty
07-07-2011, 08:01 PM
You guys are ridiculous. When healthy aka Tyreke's ROOKIE season he put up 20, 6, 5, and 1.5 on 46% shooting which is damn good. Those numbers are as good as any shooting guard in the league not named Dwayne Wade or Kobe. He is also one of the best shooting guards getting to the hoop.

Catfish1314
07-07-2011, 08:06 PM
And Yao Ming has had a broken foot, something that you can't play basketball on, so it's a fair comparison. The concept is the same as well. We're talking about this year, and this year Harden was better, regardless of health. Even when healthy, Evans wasn't great this year either. Again, Brandon Roy is a top 3 or 4 SG when healthy yet he isn't going to make top 10 on this poll. If that's the case, why should Evans make this list using "lack of health" as your case to get him on this list. You have to be consistent in this spot, and Harden was better this year regardless, so I don't get what the argument is.

Evans was better than Roy tis year. Evans was better than Harden last year and contrary to the special "data" that argues otherwise, he and Harden were more than comparable this season.

I'll put it this way. If Harden was better this year, it wasn't by a significant margin. He was healthy and playing as the third or fourth option on one of the best teams in the league. Given Tyreke's injury, his situation, and the way he played as a result of both, it's not so ridiculous of me to think Evans is still better than Harden.

SteBO
07-07-2011, 08:09 PM
You guys are ridiculous. When healthy aka Tyreke's ROOKIE season he put up 20, 6, 5, and 1.5 on 46% shooting which is damn good. Those numbers are as good as any shooting guard in the league not named Dwayne Wade or Kobe. He is also one of the best shooting guards getting to the hoop.


Oh context that's fun. When was the last time Yao Ming was even close to 100 percent healthy? Seriously. Evans is a year removed from becoming the fourth player in NBA history to average 20-5-5 as a rookie. He did so as the focal point of the opposition's defense every single night and with respectable efficiency.

When was the last time Yao even played hurt? When Yao is injured, he's really injured. It's usually something disastrous like a fractured foot, a broken ankle, or something damaging to his foundation.

Evans actually played hurt. It's totally different.



Jesus, they were comparable. Harden is being severely overrated right now. The guy had a solid season and an even more solid postseason. Evans wasn't as horrible as everyone thinks he was. I watched. It's difficult to cut and penetrate when you feel like a knife is stabbing you in the foot every time you try. Evans has a very, very streaky jumpshot. That's the biggest flaw in his game. And when a penetrator has one of his feet cut off, jumpshooting is mostly all he can do offensively. Putting up the numbers he did with his injury, albeit on a less than sexy 41 percent shooting from the field, is actually very impressive.

Meanwhile Harden gets to play with a superstar and an All-Star, is an afterthought for an opposition's defense, puts up more efficient numbers for 2010-2011, and all of a sudden he's a top ten shooting guard.
I would like one of you to answer this question....

Why the hell is Brandon Roy still a part of this poll then? When healthy, again, he's a top 5 SG in this league yet he isn't ranked that way on here. I get your gripe, but the fact remains, Harden was better than Tyreke Evans this year.

Catfish1314
07-07-2011, 08:16 PM
I would like one of you to answer this question....

Why the hell is Brandon Roy still a part of this poll then? When healthy, again, he's a top 5 SG in this league yet he isn't ranked that way on here. I get your gripe, but the fact remains, Harden was better than Tyreke Evans this year.

I guess because I can say with 100 percent confidence, Tyreke Evans won't be bothered by plantar fasciitis in 2011-2012. And his play with a crippling but not long-term injury, was more than enough to stack up against a healthy season from Harden.

Brandon Roy will still have knee problems next year. I'm sure as an NBA fan, you've done some reading up on his knee. So I don't have to tell you that his future isn't nearly as bright. In fact, there's a good chance he will never be the same player again.

SteBO
07-07-2011, 08:22 PM
I guess because I can say with 100 percent confidence, Tyreke Evans won't be bothered by plantar fasciitis in 2011-2012. And his play with a crippling but not long-term injury, was more than enough to stack up against a healthy season from Harden.

Brandon Roy will still have knee problems next year. I'm sure as an NBA fan, you've done some reading up on his knee. So I don't have to tell you that his future isn't nearly as bright. In fact, there's a good chance he will never be the same player again.
This I will agree with, though I'll also say that plantar fasciatus (I think that was Tyreke's issue) is random thing that can happen anytime. There isn't a definite cure for that, which is the case with most injuries, and I'm well aware that Roy may never be the same guy again. You're right on that point as well. I was just saying that if we were to base who should get which spot based on health issues and suchm then Brandon Roy should've been #4 at least. I disagree with the list as a whole already, but that's another story.

Kashmir13579
07-07-2011, 08:38 PM
Oh context that's fun. When was the last time Yao Ming was even close to 100 percent healthy? Seriously. Evans is a year removed from becoming the fourth player in NBA history to average 20-5-5 as a rookie. He did so as the focal point of the opposition's defense every single night and with respectable efficiency.

When was the last time Yao even played hurt? When Yao is injured, he's really injured. It's usually something disastrous like a fractured foot, a broken ankle, or something damaging to his foundation.

Evans actually played hurt. It's totally different.



Jesus, they were comparable. Harden is being severely overrated right now. The guy had a solid season and an even more solid postseason. Evans wasn't as horrible as everyone thinks he was. I watched. It's difficult to cut and penetrate when you feel like a knife is stabbing you in the foot every time you try. Evans has a very, very streaky jumpshot. That's the biggest flaw in his game. And when a penetrator has one of his feet cut off, jumpshooting is mostly all he can do offensively. Putting up the numbers he did with his injury, albeit on a less than sexy 41 percent shooting from the field, is actually very impressive.

Meanwhile Harden gets to play with a superstar and an All-Star, is an afterthought for an opposition's defense, puts up more efficient numbers for 2010-2011, and all of a sudden he's a top ten shooting guard.

I understand your logic, but its called "a slippery slope". evaluating the extent of the injury to factor where they should go on this list will never be agreed upon by everyone, is mostly based on hypotheticals, personal opinions, and your own projections for how he will play next season.


Regardless, NONE of it goes against the fact that Harden had an amazing season and performed much better than Tyreke.

Sadds The Gr8
07-07-2011, 08:40 PM
Harden has never shown to lead a team even when Durant is off. Tyreke has
Lead a team to what? the lottery?

You guys are ridiculous. When healthy aka Tyreke's ROOKIE season he put up 20, 6, 5, and 1.5 on 46% shooting which is damn good. Those numbers are as good as any shooting guard in the league not named Dwayne Wade or Kobe. He is also one of the best shooting guards getting to the hoop.
so who's to say he could do it again? he did it ONCE.

I would like one of you to answer this question....

Why the hell is Brandon Roy still a part of this poll then? When healthy, again, he's a top 5 SG in this league yet he isn't ranked that way on here. I get your gripe, but the fact remains, Harden was better than Tyreke Evans this year.

simple as this. I'm predicting Bogut's ranking to fall too in the Center rankings for the same exact reason.

MiamiWadeCounty
07-07-2011, 08:44 PM
Lead a team to what? the lottery?

so who's to say he could do it again? he did it ONCE.


simple as this. I'm predicting Bogut's ranking to fall too in the Center rankings for the same exact reason.

Generally speaking most players become better and develop their game after their rookie season. Also when did Harden's 12, 3, and 2 become so impressive. Yeah he shot efficiently but he was putting up average scoring numbers for a shooting guard, average number of assists at best, and a below average number of rebounds.

Sadds The Gr8
07-07-2011, 09:27 PM
Generally speaking most players become better and develop their game after their rookie season. Also when did Harden's 12, 3, and 2 become so impressive. Yeah he shot efficiently but he was putting up average scoring numbers for a shooting guard, average number of assists at best, and a below average number of rebounds.

i didn't vote for Harden. That reasoning u just said is why i don't think he should be on the top 10. but I do think he was better than Evans this year.

Catfish1314
07-07-2011, 09:50 PM
Regardless, NONE of it goes against the fact that Harden had an amazing season and performed much better than Tyreke.

My vouching for Evans in this thread isn't to bash Harden; I think he is and will be a very good player. But to say he had an "amazing" season and performed "much" better than Evans is a huge stretch.


Lead a team to what? the lottery?

It's not Tyreke's fault that the Kings suck. Even the great James Harden couldn't have done any better.


so who's to say he could do it again? he did it ONCE.

He almost did it again this year playing through a painful injury. Granted it was on nowhere near the same level of efficiency, but that also goes back to the injury.

Swashcuff
07-07-2011, 10:30 PM
He is a great player, and a "special" NBA player. Is that better? Like the other guy said, its semantics. If you think somebody else deserves this spot, why don't you show me why?

I made my case time and time again in earlier threads I am not going to repeat myself in this one.

The word great should not be used in the same sentence with anyone left on this poll unless describing their role (eg Jamal Crawford being a great 6th man last season). Otherwise its actually disrespectful to great players.

Correct if I am wrong but weren't you a huge fan of Crawford in earlier threads?

Swashcuff
07-07-2011, 10:40 PM
This thread shows the amount of disrespect for a player on a losing team and how overrated a player on a winning team is.

Don't get me wrong Harden has the #s to support his claim but reading stupid stuff like Tyreke is garbage and Harden is a great player.

People understand something, despite his stellar advanced #s he has done NOTHING in his 2 years in the league to make anyone believe that he is actually going to become this great player that you all make him out to be.

There is a huge difference between being a 6th man and a #3/4 option on a good team and a #1 option on a good team for a good example of this see Monta Ellis of 07/08 compared to any version after. Good teammates (especially ball hogs) usually have a positive impact on your efficiency.

All you people who believe that it is a GIVEN that James would be as "great" as he is had he been in a different circumstance need to bring more than an opinion to the table.

Sadds The Gr8
07-07-2011, 10:44 PM
It's not Tyreke's fault that the Kings suck. Even the great James Harden couldn't have done any better.


I wasn't trying to bash Evans or say it's his fault the team sucks. It was a counter-argument to that guy who was acting like Evans carried them to the playoffs or something when he said "Evans has shown he can carry a team".

Sadds The Gr8
07-07-2011, 10:46 PM
This thread shows the amount of disrespect for a player on a losing team and how overrated a player on a winning team is.

Don't get me wrong Harden has the #s to support his claim but reading stupid stuff like Tyreke is garbage and Harden is a great player.

People understand something, despite his stellar advanced #s he has done NOTHING in his 2 years in the league to make anyone believe that he is actually going to become this great player that you all make him out to be.

There is a huge difference between being a 6th man and a #3/4 option on a good team and a #1 option on a good team for a good example of this see Monta Ellis of 07/08 compared to any version after. Good teammates (especially ball hogs) usually have a positive impact on your efficiency.

All you people who believe that it is a GIVEN that James would be as "great" as he is had he been in a different circumstance need to bring more than an opinion to the table.
Who said Tyreke is garbage? All we've said is that he was bad last season and that he was only getting votes because people are looking at his rookie stats. If Brandon Roy gets penalized, then Tyreke should. I fully expect him to be back on the list next year.

Catfish1314
07-07-2011, 10:48 PM
I wasn't trying to bash Evans or say it's his fault the team sucks. It was a counter-argument to that guy who was acting like Evans carried them to the playoffs or something when he said "Evans has shown he can carry a team".

Well I think Evans has proven more than capable of shouldering a heavy load of the offense with no problems. But yeah he hasn't carried anyone anywhere yet.

Kashmir13579
07-08-2011, 12:41 AM
I made my case time and time again in earlier threads I am not going to repeat myself in this one.

The word great should not be used in the same sentence with anyone left on this poll unless describing their role (eg Jamal Crawford being a great 6th man last season). Otherwise its actually disrespectful to great players.

Correct if I am wrong but weren't you a huge fan of Crawford in earlier threads?
Huge fan of Crawford. And if you look at previous years this has been done, from the 7-10 range you'll see a trend of suspect players getting picked before Crawford, only to fall off the map entirely; while Crawford continues to perform quite well.

Crawford has a case here; but not over Harden. Harden should've been off the board already, and thats the part i was leaning towards when i bolded his post and you got tangled up in semantics.

Kashmir13579
07-08-2011, 12:47 AM
My vouching for Evans in this thread isn't to bash Harden; I think he is and will be a very good player. But to say he had an "amazing" season and performed "much" better than Evans is a huge stretch.




He knew his role and played it to near perfection. Then he had an amazing playoffs. Like i said earlier, he's the ultimate glue guy - and for a glue guy, he had an amazing season. This is just more semantics.

SugeKnight
07-08-2011, 07:05 AM
If Tyreke Evans and Stephen Jackson were in Hardens position they would put Hardens numbers to shame. Even Brandon Roy without knees could have a case for being a better player

kingsdelez24
07-10-2011, 03:27 PM
Lead a team to what? the lottery?.

Once again... you're still a raptors fan. Your opinion is as valid as Brian Scalabrene's trade value. Where did your team go in a weaker conference? TO THE ****ING LOTTERY.

MTar786
07-10-2011, 08:06 PM
wowowow

3 years makes a huge difference. 08 owns 11

DaoudS
07-10-2011, 08:54 PM
Really now? James Harden before Tyreke Evans?...wow...

Sadds The Gr8
07-10-2011, 09:16 PM
Once again... you're still a raptors fan. Your opinion is as valid as Brian Scalabrene's trade value. Where did your team go in a weaker conference? TO THE ****ING LOTTERY.

and WTF does that have to do with this convo? I don't need someone who knows jack crap telling me what my team has done.