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McJoe
07-05-2011, 12:02 AM
Having seen Snider over the last 4 years playing some left and some right and even 4 innings in center field and now having seen Eric Thames play right and left field this season, which one do you think should play which field...

Whether they will or not, lets assume for a second that Thames and Snider become the long term corner outfielders (at some point I believe Bautista takes right back and one takes over DH but that's not the point). Both guys are pretty athletic and for someone so big, Snider has surprising speed and athleticism but based on his build, that won't last forever. Thames is similar in that he is a good athlete but right now (according to baseball reference) he's 20 pounds lighter. Thames seems like a better athlete to me although right now his game isn't really there defensively based on what they've said. Neither really seem to have fantastic arms but both are acceptable on either side.

Since you guys have all seen a lot of Snider in the outfield probably and a decent amount of Thames in both right and left, where do you think they should be playing? Where would YOU start Thames and Snider given the choice of right or left?

I only ask because I watched the 3 games against Philly with Thames in right and he looked really solid and having seen Snider over the years in right he only looked okay to me. I thought it was weird that they would put Snider in what I feel is the more difficult position of right field when Thames has been playing there all week.

What do you guys think.

Nick O
07-05-2011, 12:05 AM
id prefer Thames in right TBH ... he seems a little faster and he seems to have a better glove.... i doubt his arm is as good as sniders but overall id feel more comftorable with more balls going thames way... although after today we learned hes gotta get better at playin that ball off the wall

craigerlee
07-05-2011, 12:13 AM
Having seen Snider over the last 4 years playing some left and some right and even 4 innings in center field and now having seen Eric Thames play right and left field this season, which one do you think should play which field...

Whether they will or not, lets assume for a second that Thames and Snider become the long term corner outfielders (at some point I believe Bautista takes right back and one takes over DH but that's not the point). Both guys are pretty athletic and for someone so big, Snider has surprising speed and athleticism but based on his build, that won't last forever. Thames is similar in that he is a good athlete but right now (according to baseball reference) he's 20 pounds lighter. Thames seems like a better athlete to me although right now his game isn't really there defensively based on what they've said. Neither really seem to have fantastic arms but both are acceptable on either side.

Since you guys have all seen a lot of Snider in the outfield probably and a decent amount of Thames in both right and left, where do you think they should be playing? Where would YOU start Thames and Snider given the choice of right or left?

I only ask because I watched the 3 games against Philly with Thames in right and he looked really solid and having seen Snider over the years in right he only looked okay to me. I thought it was weird that they would put Snider in what I feel is the more difficult position of right field when Thames has been playing there all week.

What do you guys think.

They had Snider in the RF this series cause there's way more ground to cover in RF at Fenway than LF and Snider is much faster than Thames. I'm pretty sure they're gonna flip them back after this series. Snider has much more defensive potential than Thames, so I'm pretty sure when Lawrie's up Thames moves to DH, but stills gets some starts in RF and LF.

3mikee_
07-05-2011, 12:24 AM
To be honest, I haven't seen much from Thames in terms of his defense. Been watching the past few series and he makes the routines plays like your suppose to and then he makes a few awful plays. He definitely needs to get use to that turf in Rogers Center, had some trouble fielding some balls out there but that's expected of someone who hasn't played on field turf.

Personally really like Snider's speed, I mean didn't he have like 6 steals or something before he got sent down to the minors? That said, having watched him for the past few years can't really say he's awesome defensively. It's really a toss up for me. Put either Thames or Snider in LF and have Bautista in RF when Lawrie's up. Snider's got more experience there so put him there for the time being and stick in a few games with Thames and see how he does.

2009mvp
07-05-2011, 12:35 AM
I guess they like Thames' arm a bit more in RF but longterm he just can't stick there. If they're both still hitting next year you probably move Thames into the DH role (or trade him) and keep Snider in left.

nithanyo
07-05-2011, 12:39 AM
Thames seems faster but Snider seems to have a better arm. I would want the stronger arm in right field. So i would want snider in right.

There too young to be strictly DH. However since Sniders bat is behind i would want him to be DH and focus on hitting when Lawrie comes up and Bautista moves back to right.

Our lineup should look like this.

Escobar SS
Thames LF
Bautista RF
Lind 1B
Lawrie 3B
Snider DH
JPA C
Hill 2B
Davis CF

As of right now. Bautista can play third, snider in right, thames in left and EE DH.

Escobar SS
Thames LF
Bautista 3B
Lind 1B
EE DH
Snider RF
JPA C
Hill 2B
Davis CF

GrantHustle
07-05-2011, 12:40 AM
They had Snider in the RF this series cause there's way more ground to cover in RF at Fenway than LF and Snider is much faster than Thames. I'm pretty sure they're gonna flip them back after this series. Snider has much more defensive potential than Thames, so I'm pretty sure when Lawrie's up Thames moves to DH, but stills gets some starts in RF and LF.

Really?

Farsight
07-05-2011, 12:53 AM
I remember reading scouting reports about Thames being below average defensively in the outfield, and the only position that he could stick at was Left or DH. Last year Snider was above average defensively. He posted a UZR 4.5 in 85 games (usually you need a few years or data to see how good they are in the field). Thames only played 21 games, so UZR is even worse in his case.

To be honest, i prefer Snider in Right (or the outfield). It seems that he is quicker, reads the ball better, and has better jumps to the ball. Currently, Snider is a better outfielder defensively than Bautista/Thames/Lind (if he was ever moved back). There is a reason why the Jays were experimenting with Snider as a centre fielder and not Thames, nor Bautista

nithanyo
07-05-2011, 01:02 AM
^^

UZR is nice n all. but theres no real way to measure defense. Theres so many things to consider when a baseball is hit to a player.

Anything from, the weather conditions, to the type of playing field adjusts, to the way the pitcher pitches etc. all affect the way a ball is hit to a player.

No ball is hit to a fielder the same way hence theres no possible way to measure defense cus each and every single time a ball is hit, it is never hit the exact same way. Simple physics.

However the best way to tell a players defense is by eyeballing it.

Thames seems faster.

However.

Snider has the stronger arm, takes the better routes to the ball.

IMO the speed is more valuble. The routes to baseball can be fixed with practise but arm strength and more so speed is really hard to increase.

For example. The reason Davis plays CF is solely based on his speed. He doesnt take the best routes to the ball and throws like a kindergardener but the fact that he is a speed demon throws all that out the window.

Rogi10
07-05-2011, 01:13 AM
^^

UZR is nice n all. but theres no real way to measure defense. Theres so many things to consider when a baseball is hit to a player.

Anything from, the weather conditions, to the type of playing field adjusts, to the way the pitcher pitches etc. all affect the way a ball is hit to a player.

No ball is hit to a fielder the same way hence theres no possible way to measure defense cus each and every single time a ball is hit, it is never hit the exact same way. Simple physics.

However the best way to tell a players defense is by eyeballing it.

Thames seems faster.

However.

Snider has the stronger arm, takes the better routes to the ball.

IMO the speed is more valuble. The routes to baseball can be fixed with practise but arm strength and more so speed is really hard to increase.

For example. The reason Davis plays CF is solely based on his speed. He doesnt take the best routes to the ball and throws like a kindergardener but the fact that he is a speed demon throws all that out the window.

Derek Jeter "looks" like a good defensive shortstop, but statistics paint a much better picture.

Farsight
07-05-2011, 02:10 AM
Derek Jeter "looks" like a good defensive shortstop, but statistics paint a much better picture.
Agreed, eyeballing is good when you are scouting a player out of highschool/college But i dont know why you would eye ball a player when you have stats that give you a better picture.

1hardcore
07-05-2011, 04:05 AM
Whatever .... i hope snider sticks it out cause i'm getting sick of this up and down w the minors thing :P

T.O. Fan
07-05-2011, 07:21 AM
I guess they like Thames' arm a bit more in RF but longterm he just can't stick there. If they're both still hitting next year you probably move Thames into the DH role (or trade him) and keep Snider in left.

Couldn't have written it better myself.

North Yorker
07-05-2011, 08:18 AM
I think Snider is the superior defender in the OF. His routes to the ball, speed, and arm are all better than Thames imo. Not to mention he hustles his *** off.

When Lawrie comes up I see Thames platooning in LF/DH with Snider and EE.

Twitchy
07-05-2011, 08:29 AM
^^

UZR is nice n all. but theres no real way to measure defense. Theres so many things to consider when a baseball is hit to a player. Anything from, the weather conditions, to the type of playing field adjusts, to the way the pitcher pitches etc. all affect the way a ball is hit to a player.

You know, I'm going to quote this just from the glossary of what UZR Is (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-fangraphs-uzr-primer/#12).


How does UZR determine how much credit, positive or negative, to award a fielder on each batted ball? First it goes through 6 years of batted ball data and determines how often each type and location of batted ball is fielded by each defensive position, making adjustments for the speed of the ball, and the handedness, speed, and power of the batter. Later on, further adjustments are made, such as the outs and base runners, and various park adjustments, like the size and configuration of the OF, the speed of the infield, and the speed of batted balls in general, as influenced by temperature, altitude, and the ground ball percentage of the pitcher (e.g. ground ball pitchers allow easier to field ground balls and harder to field air balls). For example, UZR might find that from 2004-2009, of all hard-hit line drives hit by a LH batter with above-average power to a certain location in an average OF, 15% are fielded by the CF’er, 10% by the LF, and 75% fall for a hit. Remember, those would be average numbers across all MLB parks.

So hey, look! It does everything you suggested it should do. So does that mean we should take UZR into account now?


No ball is hit to a fielder the same way hence theres no possible way to measure defense cus each and every single time a ball is hit, it is never hit the exact same way. Simple physics.

However the best way to tell a players defense is by eyeballing it.

You just contradicted yourself. If no ball is hit the same way, you can't measure it by eyeballing it either.

As for the thread, Snider's a better fielder. Better range, better arm.

craigerlee
07-05-2011, 08:36 AM
Really?


"We'll go into Fenway and he'll play right field, because of the ground to cover out there," Farrell said. "After that point, we will look to get [Eric] Thames back in right field, because we feel like Travis is a well-above-average left fielder and we want to keep him in a position of strength."

Link (http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/print.jsp?ymd=20110703&content_id=21339380&notebook_id=21360672&c_id=tor)

Shifty1 69
07-05-2011, 10:11 AM
Link (http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/print.jsp?ymd=20110703&content_id=21339380&notebook_id=21360672&c_id=tor)

What those Farrell comments read to me is... longterm, Snider is more likely to stick in the OF and since JBau will be back to RF at some point, might as well get Snider used to a fulltime LF role and move Thames to DH when it happens.
With this system beginning to bear fruit there are gonna be some good players/pitchers blocked at the MLB level at some point in the coming seasons.

13Lawrie13
07-05-2011, 10:18 AM
Really?

Yeah, it was in a news article but I can't find it anymore because when you look up Travis Snider it's a bunch of articles about the game yesterday. Anyway, yeah, that's what John Farrell said.

Edit: I see it's been found.

North Yorker
07-05-2011, 10:40 AM
What those Farrell comments read to me is... longterm, Snider is more likely to stick in the OF and since JBau will be back to RF at some point, might as well get Snider used to a fulltime LF role and move Thames to DH when it happens.
With this system beginning to bear fruit there are gonna be some good players/pitchers blocked at the MLB level at some point in the coming seasons.

The question is, does AA feel comfortable making Thames a full time DH starting next season? If he continues to have a good second half maybe he will try to sell high on him and trade him in a package to land a new 2B?

It was discussed earlier that Kipnis (CLE 2B ML ready spec) could be a target. He was ranked around the 50-60 range entering this season.

Maybe Thames+Deck would be enough to get it done? A Lawrie-Escobar-Kipnis-Lind IF looks pretty darn good for the future.

es0terik
07-05-2011, 10:50 AM
Escobar - Shortstop
Thames - Right Field
Bautista - Third Base
Lind - First Base
Arencibia - Catcher
Lawrie - Second Base
Snider - Left Field
Encarnacion - DH
Davis - Center Field


Everybody's a winner. Except of course Bautista who gets put at third (which I'm sure he can learn to live with for the sake of the team) and Patterson and Hill who get traded or DFA'd. Lawrie is comfortable at second and DH'ing Thames is ridiculous business at this point in his career. You're gonna kill the kid's game and exile him to the bench by doing that. Encarnacion is above average at the DH position. No need to move him until his trade value raises or something better comes along.

bomber0104
07-05-2011, 11:26 AM
Escobar - Shortstop
Thames - Right Field
Bautista - Third Base
Lind - First Base
Arencibia - Catcher
Lawrie - Second Base
Snider - Left Field
Encarnacion - DH
Davis - Center Field


Everybody's a winner. Except of course Bautista who gets put at third (which I'm sure he can learn to live with for the sake of the team) and Patterson and Hill who get traded or DFA'd. Lawrie is comfortable at second and DH'ing Thames is ridiculous business at this point in his career. You're gonna kill the kid's game and exile him to the bench by doing that. Encarnacion is above average at the DH position. No need to move him until his trade value raises or something better comes along.

I wish but i doubt they make Lawrie move back to 2B after they spend the year teaching him 3rd

JaysFan87
07-05-2011, 11:28 AM
Escobar - Shortstop
Thames - Right Field
Bautista - Third Base
Lind - First Base
Arencibia - Catcher
Lawrie - Second Base
Snider - Left Field
Encarnacion - DH
Davis - Center Field


Everybody's a winner. Except of course Bautista who gets put at third (which I'm sure he can learn to live with for the sake of the team) and Patterson and Hill who get traded or DFA'd. Lawrie is comfortable at second and DH'ing Thames is ridiculous business at this point in his career. You're gonna kill the kid's game and exile him to the bench by doing that. Encarnacion is above average at the DH position. No need to move him until his trade value raises or something better comes along.

Ppl need to realize that Lawrie at second base is not happening.

Krylian
07-05-2011, 11:36 AM
Lawrie was moved to 3rd cause he was lousy at 2B. Many scouts have always pegged him as a corner outfielder and don't think he'll stay at 3rd. His bat will play in the OF as well. I think he best case scenario is Lawrie at 3rd but I don't think it's a slam dunk.

B2theRY
07-05-2011, 01:42 PM
I think Thames should be the DH
I believe he is a horrible OF. I was at the game Friday and ive seen him play a few times and he just doesnt take the right path to the ball.. He can hit and im confident with him at the plate but I believe once Lawrie is ready Thames moves to DH and Bautista is back in RF.

Nick O
07-05-2011, 01:45 PM
I think Thames should be the DH
I believe he is a horrible OF. I was at the game Friday and ive seen him play a few times and he just doesnt take the right path to the ball.. He can hit and im confident with him at the plate but I believe once Lawrie is ready Thames moves to DH and Bautista is back in RF.


also Thames has shown he also has trouble playing the ball of the wall .... but all that can be fixed... hes got the speed and glove to be a decent outfielder

Bob_at_york
07-05-2011, 03:20 PM
I had no idea statistically Snider had such good range but when I saw the thread title, I felt that he was better one so far. Also from the little bit I have seen of Thames so far, I think Snider has the better arm too. Keep him in RF until Bautista comes back out there.

Bombtista
07-05-2011, 04:11 PM
The Jays have some serious positional changes to make coming up over the next few weeks and even years with all the young talent we have coming up.

Lawrie has looked really good at 3B this year so you gotta imagine management is going to stick with the original plan which is to have him play third up here. That would move Bautista back to RF and have Snider play LF.

That leaves Patterson, Davis and Thames to work out the CF position so its really hard to predict what should be done. If Davis can play to his potential then his speed would be ideal in all aspects of the game as we all know how game changing he can be on the basepaths. The trick is getting him on.

LechWalesa
07-05-2011, 05:42 PM
The team needs to start developing a long term plan for Thames. The guy has been way too good and way too consistent to not be in the line-up. Could he possibly move to another position in the infield? Speaking out of ignorance: is there any way he could learn 2nd? That seems to be the only likely solution to the logjam unless something else occurs.

Good problem to have, though.

Nick O
07-05-2011, 05:58 PM
The Jays have some serious positional changes to make coming up over the next few weeks and even years with all the young talent we have coming up.

Lawrie has looked really good at 3B this year so you gotta imagine management is going to stick with the original plan which is to have him play third up here. That would move Bautista back to RF and have Snider play LF.

That leaves Patterson, Davis and Thames to work out the CF position so its really hard to predict what should be done. If Davis can play to his potential then his speed would be ideal in all aspects of the game as we all know how game changing he can be on the basepaths. The trick is getting him on.

or it could leave Patterson. davis and Snider to work out the CF positistion....... at this moment right now.... i want Thames over snider

Bombtista
07-05-2011, 05:59 PM
The team needs to start developing a long term plan for Thames. The guy has been way too good and way too consistent to not be in the line-up. Could he possibly move to another position in the infield? Speaking out of ignorance: is there any way he could learn 2nd? That seems to be the only likely solution to the logjam unless something else occurs.

Good problem to have, though.

Is everyone this given up on Hill really?! thames doesnt really seem to be fit for the infeild and to my knowledge he has only ever played subpar OF in his career.
But our positional players are getting very crowded with Thames, Snider, Davis, Patterson, Cooper, Lawrie all fighting for two or 3 available spots. It looks like a move will need to be made

13Lawrie13
07-05-2011, 06:04 PM
or it could leave Patterson. davis and Snider to work out the CF positistion....... at this moment right now.... i want Thames over snider

You're bordering on trolling at this point.

We understand that you dislike Snider, but the fact remains that Snider is a better defender in the outfield that Thames is.

Nick O
07-05-2011, 06:07 PM
You're bordering on trolling at this point.

We understand that you dislike Snider, but the fact remains that Snider is a better defender in the outfield that Thames is.

lol thats not trolling.... i have a few points here

1. i may not be a snider fan but hes a blue Jay so i want him to succeed

2. Snider may be a slightly better Outfielder but Thames has been on a hitting streak and is batting over.300 right now... how can you take that production out of your line up?

3. its not trolling when its a valid point..... it may not be true forever but RIGHT NOW!!! Thames>> SNider

13Lawrie13
07-05-2011, 06:20 PM
lol thats not trolling.... i have a few points here

1. i may not be a snider fan but hes a blue Jay so i want him to succeed

2. Snider may be a slightly better Outfielder but Thames has been on a hitting streak and is batting over.300 right now... how can you take that production out of your line up?

3. its not trolling when its a valid point..... it may not be true forever but RIGHT NOW!!! Thames>> SNider

Well, right now, Snider is coming off a 3 for 5 game with 3 doubles and therefore Snider>>Thames. See what I did there? Small sample sizes FTW!

You're not necessarily taking the production out of your lineup. If it were up to me I would put Thames DH with Snider playing left and Bautista right when Lawrie is healed and ready to go.

I like Thames, quite a bit in fact, but his defense in the outfield is not as good as Snider's. Plain and simple. It's not like I want him out of the lineup. Like I said, I presume he'll be hitting in the DH slot.

Twitchy
07-05-2011, 06:31 PM
lol thats not trolling.... i have a few points here

1. i may not be a snider fan but hes a blue Jay so i want him to succeed

2. Snider may be a slightly better Outfielder but Thames has been on a hitting streak and is batting over.300 right now... how can you take that production out of your line up?

3. its not trolling when its a valid point..... it may not be true forever but RIGHT NOW!!! Thames>> SNider

Considering that most of your posts have been about Snider, it does seem like you're trolling. Especially since the point of this thread isn't about Snider vs. Thames, but about which one goes in which position. Cause they can both play at the same time.

So why don't we drop the whole Snider sucks or Thames > Snider thing here, because that's not the place for it.

Nick O
07-05-2011, 06:37 PM
Considering that most of your posts have been about Snider, it does seem like you're trolling. Especially since the point of this thread isn't about Snider vs. Thames, but about which one goes in which position. Cause they can both play at the same time.

So why don't we drop the whole Snider sucks or Thames > Snider thing here, because that's not the place for it.

i didnt bring up the snider or thames thing so dont be saying that to me... maybe if you go back a page or 2 instead of making things up... and to the poster above yes its a small sample size but you cant demote a player for batting over .300 ... i have no problem with Snider in the out field as long as they can find a way to keep Thames in the line up.... DH would be fine

town123
07-05-2011, 07:12 PM
Welcome to the forum Nick O.

On a side note, don't wear out your welcome.

Nick O
07-05-2011, 07:16 PM
Welcome to the forum Nick O.

On a side note, don't wear out your welcome.

lol im not trying :P all i said was i feel Thames is currently a better option than Snider,,,, its a reasonable oppinion i thought.... anyway thanks for the welcome :)

Twitchy
07-05-2011, 07:45 PM
i didnt bring up the snider or thames thing so dont be saying that to me... maybe if you go back a page or 2 instead of making things up...

Really. I'm the guy making things up. See, I went through your past posts, and here's what you said:


or it could leave Patterson. davis and Snider to work out the CF positistion....... at this moment right now.... i want Thames over snider

So don't go off telling me that I'm making things up. Because you're the first person to say anything directly about Snider vs. Thames.

Like I said before, drop it here. Not the place for it.

Nick O
07-05-2011, 07:48 PM
Really. I'm the guy making things up. See, I went through your past posts, and here's what you said:



So don't go off telling me that I'm making things up. Because you're the first person to say anything directly about Snider vs. Thames.

Like I said before, drop it here. Not the place for it.

someone WAS implying they wanted snider out there..... Thames is the better option.... all i said..... not a big deal man

riderfan60
07-05-2011, 09:13 PM
someone WAS implying they wanted snider out there..... Thames is the better option.... all i said..... not a big deal man

I'm a big Thames fan, but he's way poorer defensively than Snider. He also hasn't played enough for anyone to form a definitive opinion on his pro potential, as good as it currently looks.

I hear your opinion, which were all entitled to, but you've made about 76 posts in 2 threads in 2 days saying the same thing. Time to move on son.

Nick O
07-05-2011, 09:21 PM
I'm a big Thames fan, but he's way poorer defensively than Snider. He also hasn't played enough for anyone to form a definitive opinion on his pro potential, as good as it currently looks.

I hear your opinion, which were all entitled to, but you've made about 76 posts in 2 threads in 2 days saying the same thing. Time to move on son.

well i still dissagree with you but fine...;)

T.O. Fan
07-06-2011, 07:28 AM
well i still dissagree with you but fine...;)

Just a heads up that Twitchy is a mod here. You may want to listen to what he has to say about how you conduct yourself on PSD because he could have a say as to whether you continue to be on the PSD forums.

There's absolutely no reason why Snider and Thames can't be in the same lineup.

At this point Snider is the superior fielder and with Bautista likely to head back to RF when Lawrie arrives it makes sense to have Thames DH with Snider in LF. That's unlikely to happen though for another couple months minimum so both players will have an opportunity on both sides of the ball to show what they can do at this level.

GrumpyOldMan
07-06-2011, 08:42 AM
They experimented with Snider in centerfield in Vegas for a couple of games, does anyone know how that worked out? I only ask because I dont really like either Davis or Patterson in center. They both have speed, but no arm at all. With work I feel Snider could be our best current option there.
I would then platoon Davis and Patterson in left and put Batista in right when Lawrie is ready. Then Thames and EE can split DH.
Just an opinion.

North Yorker
07-06-2011, 09:04 AM
They experimented with Snider in centerfield in Vegas for a couple of games, does anyone know how that worked out? I only ask because I dont really like either Davis or Patterson in center. They both have speed, but no arm at all. With work I feel Snider could be our best current option there.
I would then platoon Davis and Patterson in left and put Batista in right when Lawrie is ready. Then Thames and EE can split DH.
Just an opinion.

That would be a way to put our best offensive lineup on the field.

Escobar-SS/Thames-LF/Bautista-RF/Lind-1B/Lawrie-3B/Snider-CF/EE-DH/JPA-C/Hill-2B

We would be lacking speed on the base paths and defense in the OF but this lineup would provide the most pop and potential.

We could always sub in Rajai/Patt for Thames in the later innings for defense or use one of them as a pinch runner.

Rajai and Patt both havent been good in CF defensively this season so I can't see the harm in trying Snider there and seeing how he fares. This season is the time to be experimenting with these types of things so that we know what to expect next year and beyond when we plan on contending.

es0terik
07-06-2011, 09:46 AM
Okay well if you can't put Lawrie at 2nd then I'd try Snider in CF and go like this:


Yunel Escobar (SS)
Eric Thames (LF)
Jose Bautista (RF)
Adam Lind (1B)
Brett Lawrie (3B)
JP Arencibia (C)
Travis Snider (CF)
Aaron Hill (2B)
Rajai Davis + Corey Patterson + Edwin Encarnacion (DH Platoon)


If Snider can end up able to play CF, then apart from Hill, I see nothing wrong with this line up. I do want to see Bautista play third base more though. I know it's an incredibly small sample size but for christ's sake, the guys got a .357 BA, 1.419 OPS and 5 Home Runs in just 28 at bats at the position so far. He's also hit in 7 of the 8 games he's played at 3B and is currently riding a 6 Game hit streak. I know he's got a history of playing poorly in June, but still, he slumped for a few weeks and it seems to me that the move to third base woke him up. 3B is one of the most psychologically influential positions in the game, and I think Bautista needs to stay there a little longer and see what it does for him.

* I stand by my opinion that Thames should NOT be DH'ing this early in his career. A move like that seems nothing but ridiculous to me. DH is for veteran players to extend their careers. Let him develop in the field.

Nick O
07-06-2011, 12:08 PM
This would be the one id try

1. Yunel Escobar (SS)
2. Eric Thames (LF)
3. Jose Bautista (RF)
4. Adam Lind (1B)
5. Brett Lawrie (3B)
6. Aaron Hill (2b)
7. JP Arencebia (C)
8. Corey Patterson (CF)
9. Travis Snider + Edwin Encarnacion (DH Platoon)

And i know Davis has that great speed but he might have to be saved for pinch running situations cause i just dont know if there is a place for him right now... not that this is a bad issue to have really :)

13Lawrie13
07-06-2011, 12:23 PM
This would be the one id try

1. Yunel Escobar (SS)
2. Eric Thames (LF)
3. Jose Bautista (RF)
4. Adam Lind (1B)
5. Brett Lawrie (3B)
6. Aaron Hill (2b)
7. JP Arencebia (C)
8. Corey Patterson (CF)
9. Travis Snider + Edwin Encarnacion (DH Platoon)

And i know Davis has that great speed but he might have to be saved for pinch running situations cause i just dont know if there is a place for him right now... not that this is a bad issue to have really :)

http://winopso.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/implied-facepalm-500x385.jpg

Nick O
07-06-2011, 12:29 PM
http://winopso.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/implied-facepalm-500x385.jpg

lol you just posted a link :P the facepalms work better if you dont have to click a link and wait 3 seconds for it to load :P ... but how is mine really any different from the persons who posted before me ? :P

StayOnBoard
07-06-2011, 12:30 PM
This would be the one id try

1. Yunel Escobar (SS)
2. Eric Thames (LF)
3. Jose Bautista (RF)
4. Adam Lind (1B)
5. Brett Lawrie (3B)
6. Aaron Hill (2b)
7. JP Arencebia (C)
8. Corey Patterson (CF)
9. Travis Snider + Edwin Encarnacion (DH Platoon)

And i know Davis has that great speed but he might have to be saved for pinch running situations cause i just dont know if there is a place for him right now... not that this is a bad issue to have really :)

Swap Snider with Aaron Hill and you might be onto something.... E5 can go to the bench. Patterson isn't great but he's an upgrade over that hack Davis who I hope and pray will be traded this month :pray: I'd take most anything for the guy right about now..... the Nats need a CFer, might be a good fit there.

Nick O
07-06-2011, 12:35 PM
Swap Snider with Aaron Hill and you might be onto something.... E5 can go to the bench. Patterson isn't great but he's an upgrade over that hack Davis who I hope and pray will be traded this month :pray: I'd take most anything for the guy right about now..... the Nats need a CFer, might be a good fit there.

Can Snider play second? ive never seen it but that wouldnt be bad... Hill hasnt exactly been the Defensive or offensive player he used to be

es0terik
07-06-2011, 12:36 PM
lol you just posted a link :P the facepalms work better if you dont have to click a link and wait 3 seconds for it to load :P ... but how is mine really any different from the persons who posted before me ? :P

There's an incredibly big difference. In my line up, Snider and Thames are both on the field which is understandable. In your line up, you have Thames on the field before Snider, and Snider is on a DH platoon.

Nick O
07-06-2011, 12:38 PM
There's an incredibly big difference. In my line up, Snider and Thames are both on the field which is understandable. In your line up, you have Thames on the field before Snider, and Snider is on a DH platoon.

Thames didnt change in mine.... lol i legit copy and pasted yours didnt change the first 5 then just rearanged the bottom... the only thing that changed was patterson and snider in Centre and that can go either way

13Lawrie13
07-06-2011, 12:40 PM
lol you just posted a link :P the facepalms work better if you dont have to click a link and wait 3 seconds for it to load :P ... but how is mine really any different from the persons who posted before me ? :P

Yeah, well it worked when I first posted it. A little advice for you would be to learn how to type and write correctly. Your point would be more convincing if it didn't take thirty seconds to read what you posted.

I don't want to have to go through this again, but since you clearly lack the intelligence to understand what I'm talking about, I'll try again.

Snider, even if his bat isn't up to par, is a better fielder than Thames and, because of that, should be playing LF (in your lineup) and not Thames. Thames can be used at DH. It's a win-win.

StayOnBoard
07-06-2011, 12:44 PM
Can Snider play second? ive never seen it but that wouldnt be bad... Hill hasnt exactly been the Defensive or offensive player he used to be

I meant in the order... Hill should be batting 9th. Well - he should be off the team, but for now... bat him 9th.

I don't really care if Thames or Snider gets put in the field/DH.... people are FAR too worked up over removing him from the OF. Both are young, EITHER of them could end up being the better defender, its' way too early to tell. I'd at least entertain the idea, but that won't go very well here on this forum (outside the box thinking/idea's is shunned here more often than not).

Nick O
07-06-2011, 12:44 PM
Yeah, well it worked when I first posted it. A little advice for you would be to learn how to type and write correctly. Your point would be more convincing if it didn't take thirty seconds to read what you posted.

I don't want to have to go through this again, but since you clearly lack the intelligence to understand what I'm talking about, I'll try again.

Snider, even if his bat isn't up to par, is a better fielder than Thames and, because of that, should be playing LF (in your lineup) and not Thames. Thames can be used at DH. It's a win-win.

lol then my point is WHY DIDNT THE OTHER PERSON GET FACEPALM!!! :P lol im kinda kidding but i didnt change Thames..... i left the top 5 in the order.... i copied and pasted the other persons lineup.... the only thing that changed was Snider and Patterson in centre..... and i dont really care who plays there to be honest.

Nick O
07-06-2011, 12:46 PM
I meant in the order... Hill should be batting 9th. Well - he should be off the team, but for now... bat him 9th.

I don't really care if Thames or Snider gets put in the field/DH.... people are FAR too worked up over removing him from the OF. Both are young, EITHER of them could end up being the better defender, its' way too early to tell. I'd at least entertain the idea, but that won't go very well here on this forum (outside the box thinking/idea's is shunned here more often than not).

lol ive noticed :P and i never said anything about not giving snider a chance... he can be the main DH and can still play in the field sometimes.... as long as he and thames are getting most of the action im fine

13Lawrie13
07-06-2011, 12:52 PM
lol then my point is WHY DIDNT THE OTHER PERSON GET FACEPALM!!! :P lol im kinda kidding but i didnt change Thames..... i left the top 5 in the order.... i copied and pasted the other persons lineup.... the only thing that changed was Snider and Patterson in centre..... and i dont really care who plays there to be honest.

The previous poster's lineup had Snider playing centre field. Although I don't totally agree with that lineup, at least the poster is recognizing that Snider is a better fielder than Thames which you seem set on not admitting.

Nick O
07-06-2011, 12:54 PM
The previous poster's lineup had Snider playing centre field. Although I don't totally agree with that lineup, at least the poster is recognizing that Snider is a better fielder than Thames which you seem set on not admitting.

hey can i turn the tables.... ahem if i may......... SMALL SAMPLE SIZE!!! lol :P .. and i just said id be fine with either patterson or snider in CF

StayOnBoard
07-06-2011, 12:56 PM
The previous poster's lineup had Snider playing centre field. Although I don't totally agree with that lineup, at least the poster is recognizing that Snider is a better fielder than Thames which you seem set on not admitting.

Ugh... I'll try this again. It's too early too tell..... how do you know? Just because Snider is better today, does that mean he'll be a better defender next year? Or **** who knows, in a months time from now?

You don't know - why do all Jays fans think they can ****ing predict the future? If I had a dollar everytime an "expert" here was wrong I could buy my own island and retire on it.... Nothing pisses me off more than people guaranteeing they are right about anything sports related. If that was the case Rios would be the best player in baseball and Hill would be a top 5 talent at 2nd base. That's two examples out of about 6 million I can bring up....

My God people - its a forum, its meant for DISCUSSIONS and HYPOTHETICAL talking about our team and players. There isn't only one right answer - FFS....!! I don't really agree with Nick's suggestions either but at least give the guy a chance to speak his mind. Jesus...

Nick O
07-06-2011, 01:00 PM
ugh... I'll try this again. It's too early too tell..... How do you know? Just because snider is better today, does that mean he'll be a better defender next year? Or **** who knows, in a months time from now?

You don't know - why do all jays fans think they can ****ing predict the future? If i had a dollar everytime an "expert" here was wrong i could buy my own island and retire on it.... Nothing pisses me off more than people guaranteeing they are right about anything sports related. If that was the case rios would be the best player in baseball and hill would be a top 5 talent at 2nd base. That's two examples out of about 6 million i can bring up....

My god people - its a forum, its meant for discussions and hypothetical talking about our team and players. There isn't only one right answer - ffs....!! I don't really agree with nick's suggestions either but at least give the guy a chance to speak his mind. Jesus...

:)

B2theRY
07-06-2011, 01:05 PM
also Thames has shown he also has trouble playing the ball of the wall .... but all that can be fixed... hes got the speed and glove to be a decent outfielder

Thats why you DH him for now, work with him every day and maybe once a week you throw him out there. He's playing well but im not going to jump on the Thames bandwagon and consider him an all star let alone a hall of famer.

craigerlee
07-06-2011, 01:11 PM
Ugh... I'll try this again. It's too early too tell..... how do you know? Just because Snider is better today, does that mean he'll be a better defender next year? Or **** who knows, in a months time from now?


I think you make the assumption barring no injuries that Snider will be a better defender. The main reason is, that I would imagine the former HS running back who's had no serious injuries to his legs is gonna have more range than the guy who had a serious quad tear that required surgery and who most scouts peg as a solid bat with average athleticism.

StayOnBoard
07-06-2011, 01:15 PM
I think you make the assumption barring no injuries that Snider will be a better defender. The main reason is, that I would imagine the former HS running back who's had no serious injuries to his legs is gonna have more range than the guy who had a serious quad tear that required surgery and who most scouts peg as a solid bat with average athleticism.

Oh I agree with you... I do think Snider is and maybe even will be the better defender in the long term. BUT - its also far from a guarantee either.... Everyone thought Rajai Davis was going to be some A+ defender and the guy can't catch a cold.

What I ACTUALLY see (and this is my biggest problem) there is a new poster who's trying to share his opinion and people **** all over him because of it. Fact is, they're both still incredibly young and anything can happen in the next 2-3 + years. We wonder why no new posters will even dare post here - this thread is the perfect example of it.

craigerlee
07-06-2011, 01:21 PM
Oh I agree with you... I do think Snider is and maybe even will be the better defender in the long term. BUT - its also far from a guarantee either.... Everyone thought Rajai Davis was going to be some A+ defender and the guy can't catch a cold.

What I ACTUALLY see (and this is my biggest problem) there is a new poster who's trying to share his opinion and people **** all over him because of it. Fact is, they're both still incredibly young and anything can happen in the next 2-3 + years. We wonder why no new posters will even dare post here - this thread is the perfect example of it.

I definitely agree some posters have been a little harsh on Nick O. However I do think if he is gonna argue that Thames should be in the OF over Snider when its pretty clear that they can both be in the lineup simultaneously with Thames DHing, then he should give some evidence as to why rather than just his opinion. Cause you know in this forum people are gonna **** all over that.

13Lawrie13
07-06-2011, 01:21 PM
Ugh... I'll try this again. It's too early too tell..... how do you know? Just because Snider is better today, does that mean he'll be a better defender next year? Or **** who knows, in a months time from now?

You don't know - why do all Jays fans think they can ****ing predict the future? If I had a dollar everytime an "expert" here was wrong I could buy my own island and retire on it.... Nothing pisses me off more than people guaranteeing they are right about anything sports related. If that was the case Rios would be the best player in baseball and Hill would be a top 5 talent at 2nd base. That's two examples out of about 6 million I can bring up....

My God people - its a forum, its meant for DISCUSSIONS and HYPOTHETICAL talking about our team and players. There isn't only one right answer - FFS....!! I don't really agree with Nick's suggestions either but at least give the guy a chance to speak his mind. Jesus...

Oh my. Where do I start?

First of all, this is the first time you've said anything along these lines, so it wouldn't be "let me try this 'again'" it would be "let me try this".

It's too early to tell who the better fielder is right now? Well, that makes absolutely no sense.:clap: I never said that Snider was always going to be the better fielder, but at the moment he most definitely is, and since we're basing these lineups on what we know today, having Thames play in the field over Snider makes no sense.

If you lost a dollar for every time you were incorrect I'm fairly certain you'd be broke. See what I did there?

Yes, this is a forum, but he presented his opinion in a way that are those of a troll. Everything he's posted so far has had negative comments, or has implied negative things, about Snider. If that's not trolling, I don't know what is.

StayOnBoard
07-06-2011, 01:22 PM
Oh my. Where do I start?

First of all, this is the first time you've said anything along these lines, so it wouldn't be "let me try this 'again'" it would be "let me try this".

It's too early to tell who the better fielder is right now? Well, that makes absolutely no sense.:clap: I never said that Snider was always going to be the better fielder, but at the moment he most definitely is, and since we're basing these lineups on what we know today, having Thames play in the field over Snider makes no sense.

If you lost a dollar for every time you were incorrect I'm fairly certain you'd be broke. See what I did there?

Yes, this is a forum, but he presented his opinion in a way that are those of a troll. Everything he's posted so far has had negative comments, or has implied negative things, about Snider. If that's not trolling, I don't know what is.

Go take a look at your posts and you'll get an answer for that. :rolleyes:

Nick O
07-06-2011, 01:29 PM
Oh my. Where do I start?

First of all, this is the first time you've said anything along these lines, so it wouldn't be "let me try this 'again'" it would be "let me try this".

It's too early to tell who the better fielder is right now? Well, that makes absolutely no sense.:clap: I never said that Snider was always going to be the better fielder, but at the moment he most definitely is, and since we're basing these lineups on what we know today, having Thames play in the field over Snider makes no sense.

If you lost a dollar for every time you were incorrect I'm fairly certain you'd be broke. See what I did there?

Yes, this is a forum, but he presented his opinion in a way that are those of a troll. Everything he's posted so far has had negative comments, or has implied negative things, about Snider. If that's not trolling, I don't know what is.

lol how is criticism trolling...not one person ive seen has actually come out and criticisized Snider.... Ive seen the announcers and other posters and other fans Rip on Patterson, Davis, Encarnacion, Thames, Arencebia... Even Bautista.... but not snider,,, hes untouchable apparently... and the reason its been like that is cause every reply ive recieved has been praising him im just simply statin an oppinion from the other side thats kinda of what a discussion/friendly dissagreement would be.... ANYWAY i have no problem with Snider starting everyday... even in the outfield as long as thames is getting his at bats cause like you guys says Snider is the better fielder right now Thames is the better hitter right now so if hes DH thats fine... i dont care... as long as hes getting his at bats cause he deserves them

Nick O
07-06-2011, 01:31 PM
I definitely agree some posters have been a little harsh on Nick O. However I do think if he is gonna argue that Thames should be in the OF over Snider when its pretty clear that they can both be in the lineup simultaneously with Thames DHing, then he should give some evidence as to why rather than just his opinion. Cause you know in this forum people are gonna **** all over that.

hey if Thames can get all the at bats he needs i dont care where he goes DH thats fine But what do you do with solid not great but solid hitters in Patterson and EE?

craigerlee
07-06-2011, 01:33 PM
hey if Thames can get all the at bats he needs i dont care where he goes DH thats fine But what do you do with solid not great but solid hitters in Patterson and EE?

They ride the pine as bench players or they go, neither has a future with this team.

StayOnBoard
07-06-2011, 01:33 PM
hey if Thames can get all the at bats he needs i dont care where he goes DH thats fine But what do you do with solid not great but solid hitters in Patterson and EE?

Neither has any long term place on the team and in fact, both will(should) be gone by the end of the year if not earlier.

13Lawrie13
07-06-2011, 01:35 PM
Go take a look at your posts and you'll get an answer for that. :rolleyes:

I was very civil, (unlike you, who seemed to feel the need to incorporate incomplete swear words into your post) until he continuously posted negative perceptions about Snider that were both fact less and vacuous.

You've got to draw the line somewhere. I posted more than once that I considered what he said 'trolling', yet he continuously provided us with the pleasure of his imbecilic views.

Nick O
07-06-2011, 01:35 PM
They ride the pine as bench players or they go, neither has a future with this team.

i guess.... maybe get a good reliver for em? ... a closer maybe i dunno

Bob_at_york
07-06-2011, 01:36 PM
But what do you do with solid not great but solid hitters in Patterson and EE?

they ride the bench unless there is an injury. They are bench players.

Nick O
07-06-2011, 01:37 PM
I was very civil, (unlike you, who seemed to feel the need to incorporate incomplete swear words into your post) until he continuously posted negative perceptions about Snider that were both fact less and vacuous.

You've got to draw the line somewhere. I posted more than once that I considered what he said 'trolling', yet he continuously provided us with the pleasure of his imbecilic views.

:clap: somone bought a thesaurus and lol i suppose i COULD see how what im doing MAY be interpreted as trolling... but i promise you thats not what im intending to do

StayOnBoard
07-06-2011, 01:37 PM
I was very civil, (unlike you, who seemed to feel the need to incorporate incomplete swear words into your post) until he continuously posted negative perceptions about Snider that were both fact less and vacuous.

You've got to draw the line somewhere. I posted more than once that I considered what he said 'trolling', yet he continuously provided us with the pleasure of his imbecilic views.

Someone's opinion whos' different from yours != trolling (that's not equal, for those not familiar with programming languages) ;)

Also, there's no incomplete swear words in my post anywhere.... I write em out and let PSD filter them as necessary. Anything else gets me in trouble with mods by circumventing the swear filter.

craigerlee
07-06-2011, 01:39 PM
i guess.... maybe get a good reliver for em? ... a closer maybe i dunno

I'd even trade them for org depth, much rather see guys like Cooper and Loewan get some at bats at the end of the year instead of them. Its not like E5 and Patterson are in high demand, you could probably resign them in the offseason if Loewan and Cooper totally suck.

Bob_at_york
07-06-2011, 01:40 PM
if you guys can't stay civil I will close this.

13Lawrie13
07-06-2011, 01:48 PM
Someone's opinion whos' different from yours != trolling (that's not equal, for those not familiar with programming languages) ;)

Also, there's no incomplete swear words in my post anywhere.... I write em out and let PSD filter them as necessary. Anything else gets me in trouble with mods by circumventing the swear filter.

Double post.

13Lawrie13
07-06-2011, 01:48 PM
Someone's opinion whos' different from yours != trolling (that's not equal, for those not familiar with programming languages) ;)

Also, there's no incomplete swear words in my post anywhere.... I write em out and let PSD filter them as necessary. Anything else gets me in trouble with mods by circumventing the swear filter.

That's not true. Someone who constantly states pessimistic views, without backing them up with facts, on certain people and/or objects is a troll.

If your swear words are complete, then that makes your response even less civil.

Nick O
07-06-2011, 01:51 PM
That's not true. Someone who constantly states pessimistic views, without backing them up with facts, on certain people and/or objects is a troll.

If your swear words are complete, then that makes your response even less civil.

:clap: double post.... anyway i have facts.... if you can get both Thames AND snider into the lineup everyday than good.... if you Have to choose i choose Thames because right now hes a much better hitter..... right now

13Lawrie13
07-06-2011, 01:52 PM
:clap: somone bought a thesaurus and lol i suppose i COULD see how what im doing MAY be interpreted as trolling... but i promise you thats not what im intending to do

Just because my vocabulary is far beyond your grasp doesn't mean I went out and "bought a thesaurus."

Nick O
07-06-2011, 01:53 PM
Just because my vocabulary is far beyond your grasp doesn't mean I went out and "bought a thesaurus."

whats a vocabulary? .....

StayOnBoard
07-06-2011, 01:54 PM
That's not true. Someone who constantly states pessimistic views, without backing them up with facts, on certain people and/or objects is a troll.

If your swear words are complete, then that makes your response even less civil.

Pfff.. child please. If swear words weren't civil, Bomber would have been perma-banned years ago.

Sorry if my words are offensive, it's a forum... no one seems to have a problem with it - MANY people here curse on a regular basis.

Im done arguing with you.... you THINK you were civil to him but you were being just as much of a troll as he was. Trying to be cute with a lame facepalm image doesn't make it any better.

13Lawrie13
07-06-2011, 01:54 PM
:clap: double post.... anyway i have facts.... if you can get both Thames AND snider into the lineup everyday than good.... if you Have to choose i choose Thames because right now hes a much better hitter..... right now

You're clapping, because I posted the same thing twice? :facepalm:

You have facts? Why haven't you presented them in one of your posts yet?

Bob_at_york
07-06-2011, 01:56 PM
whats a vocabulary? .....

Nice job! :clap:

Locked because you guys couldn't "play nice".

Nick O
07-06-2011, 01:57 PM
You're clapping, because I posted the same thing twice? :facepalm:

You have facts? Why haven't you presented them in one of your posts yet?

lol no i just enjoy this emoticon :clap: its new to me :P .... and i have my argument is IF i hade to choose who to have in the field id pick Thames because even though hes not quite as good a fielder hes currently a much better hitter,,, BUT like i said if Thames can be the every day DH then it doesnt matter,,, im happy..