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View Full Version : Rivera DFA, Snider up for Tuesday!



JaysFan87
07-03-2011, 03:53 PM
Looks like the kids will be here as soon as they can. Hopefully Snider can continue to hot streak of THames and his own. He was on a tear in Vegas before he got injured and now in the 2 games back since. Good for him. Hopefully Lawrie is next (though still likely not until August:()

Toxeryll
07-03-2011, 03:54 PM
yay!!! wooohooo

Arruda
07-03-2011, 03:55 PM
This is awesome! We're actually playing the kids

FlakeyFool
07-03-2011, 03:57 PM
Good ****ing riddance Rivera

the_jon
07-03-2011, 03:58 PM
DFA'ing our MVP :pity:

JaysFan87
07-03-2011, 03:58 PM
If they played Snider in CF in vegas to see if he can play it then he plays CF for the foreseeable future to see if he can handle it. So Snider (CF), Thames (RF), DAvis/Patterson (LF), EE (full time DH)?

the_jon
07-03-2011, 04:14 PM
If they played Snider in CF in vegas to see if he can play it then he plays CF for the foreseeable future to see if he can handle it. So Snider (CF), Thames (RF), DAvis/Patterson (LF), EE (full time DH)?
LMAO he can barely play LF.

koreancabbage
07-03-2011, 04:17 PM
If they played Snider in CF in vegas to see if he can play it then he plays CF for the foreseeable future to see if he can handle it. So Snider (CF), Thames (RF), DAvis/Patterson (LF), EE (full time DH)?

Snider is not going to be our centerfielder (or he shouldn't be, he doesn't the prototypical center fielder body)- they are just trying to give him a position to play cuz its pretty crowded up in the majors in the outfield. I still think Davis and Patterson play a better outfielder then Snider, especially in center [yes, i know Davis does not take the best route to the ball, but he's FAST- fast enough to recover and get to 99% of all balls] and they aren't going to take away at-bats from a red-hot Thames, who seems like he can hit for average and with power than snider ever did in the majors in the same short period of time lol.

but wondering, who has the best arm of all the outfielders? Thames, Snider, Davis, Patterson? we know Bautista has the best but who is second?

If Lawrie heals up and shows that the injury did not affect him, he'll be here soon too.

JaysFan87
07-03-2011, 04:17 PM
So when/if lawrie gets called up (barring injury) then lineup reads

Lind(1b)
Hill (2b)
YEscobar (SS)
Lawrie(3b)
JPA (C)
Bautista (RF)
Snider (CF/LF)
Thames/Davis (LF)
EE/Thames (DH)

Patterson DFA?

koreancabbage
07-03-2011, 04:23 PM
So when/if lawrie gets called up (barring injury) then lineup reads

Lind(1b)
Hill (2b)
YEscobar (SS)
Lawrie(3b)
JPA (C)
Bautista (RF)
Snider (CF/LF)
Thames/Davis (LF)
EE/Thames (DH)

Patterson DFA?

its a tough call to be honest. i don't like seeing any of Thames or Snider in center field. Snider will have to earn the trust in playing in CF as i am very skeptical of his quickness and speed to be a center fielder.

but its a good problem to have than having no good players to slot in those positions lol

JaysFan87
07-03-2011, 04:23 PM
LMAO he can barely play LF.


Snider is not going to be our centerfielder (or he shouldn't be, he doesn't the prototypical center fielder body)- they are just trying to give him a position to play cuz its pretty crowded up in the majors in the outfield. I still think Davis and Patterson play a better outfielder then Snider, especially in center [yes, i know Davis does not take the best route to the ball, but he's FAST- fast enough to recover and get to 99% of all balls] and they aren't going to take away at-bats from a red-hot Thames, who seems like he can hit for average and with power than snider ever did in the majors in the same short period of time lol.

but wondering, who has the best arm of all the outfielders? Thames, Snider, Davis, Patterson? we know Bautista has the best but who is second?

If Lawrie heals up and shows that the injury did not affect him, he'll be here soon too.

There is a reason Snider has been playing CF in Vegas and if you cared to read the many articles Jays brass have indicated that tehy want to see how he handles CF and by all accounts he does not look like a miss fit at all.


Snider has also been auditioning for the team in Las Vegas' spacious center field as Toronto's management attempts to get an idea of what potential Snider has at the position. So far, according to general manager Alex Anthopoulos, the reports have been positive, but the team will wait until they have a larger sample size to make any decisions.

"I know he's a good athlete. I know he's running a lot better than he has in the past," Anthopoulos said. "But without having really seen him for an extended period of time -- we'll listen to our staff down there to hear how he looks, how well he plays it, what his range is going to be -- things like that.

"I'm a big believer that it's hard to evaluate somebody defensively off of one or two games. You have to sit and really watch a guy."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110702&content_id=21294206&notebook_id=21294724&vkey=notebook_tor&c_id=tor

So yes he will be playing CF in the majors when he comes up. And i dont mind him at all in CF if that means Thames is playing everyday in LF and EE continues at DH.

JaysFan87
07-03-2011, 04:25 PM
its a tough call to be honest. i don't like seeing any of Thames or Snider in center field. Snider will have to earn the trust in playing in CF as i am very skeptical of his quickness and speed to be a center fielder.

but its a good problem to have than having no good players to slot in those positions lol

You dont hae to have blazing speed to play CF. YOu need to be smart and defensively aware of what is going on. Davis can get away with not having the highest CF IQ by being fast to recover. Snider seems to have the better baseball head.

koreancabbage
07-03-2011, 04:33 PM
You dont hae to have blazing speed to play CF. YOu need to be smart and defensively aware of what is going on. Davis can get away with not having the highest CF IQ by being fast to recover. Snider seems to have the better baseball head.

yes, i can agree with that. we'll see if Snider can hit in the majors before granting him safe passage to being an everyday player (from a player with high expectations, potential, and being young)

to me, snider hasn't proven anything yet from his stints in the majors. that's why i am weary of him and the lovefest he gets here on the Jays' PSD forum

serratedmuffin
07-03-2011, 04:36 PM
If snider can play CF his value is much greater. The bat he projects to bring would also add to his value if he can stick in center. Corner OF you need monster bats, getting anything from CF is a big bonus.

JaysFan87
07-03-2011, 04:45 PM
yes, i can agree with that. we'll see if Snider can hit in the majors before granting him safe passage to being an everyday player (from a player with high expectations, potential, and being young)

to me, snider hasn't proven anything yet from his stints in the majors. that's why i am weary of him and the lovefest he gets here on the Jays' PSD forum

**** son didnt know an 767 OPS before turning 23 in the MLB was a bad thing.

Guy had a 760 OPS last year with 14 HR in 300AB. I dont know if its just me. But thats pretty good for a 22 year old in the Majors.


This is precisely the wrong attitude to have and one of the reasons why this city in general can never have home grown talent. fan base is way way way to in patient.

Farsight
07-03-2011, 05:00 PM
Finally Snider is back with the team. He has the most potential on our current roster (other than Bautista). I will enjoy watching him play on Tuesday!

BlueJayFanDan
07-03-2011, 05:02 PM
That's exciting. I would have just stuck Rivera on the bench but meh.

scottythegreat1
07-03-2011, 05:20 PM
I wonder where Rivera will be traded to. There are rumours that teams were inquiring about him, so we might actually get something (although probably very little) for him.

dtmagnet
07-03-2011, 05:26 PM
This is excellent news.

bomber0104
07-03-2011, 05:48 PM
wow... love to finally see the Jays coming to their senses and cutting loose these horrible veterans..

can't wait to see snider Back.. another lefty bat wont hurt

Toxeryll
07-03-2011, 05:58 PM
getting cut on his birthday must have sucked!! wish y'all the best juan

North Yorker
07-03-2011, 06:09 PM
Great to see Snider coming back. Our lineup is slowly becoming what we've envisioned it to be, next up is Lawrie.

Do they plan on trading Rivera like how they traded Purcey?

StayOnBoard
07-03-2011, 06:12 PM
Great to see Snider coming back. Our lineup is slowly becoming what we've envisioned it to be, next up is Lawrie.

Do they plan on trading Rivera like how they traded Purcey?

Yep - all the reports I read indicated that. I believe they already have interest, but they won't get very much for the guy. Doesn't matter though - great to see Snider back and the vets getting moved so the kids have playing time. On a side note, Thames has been a beast.

PJ Awesome
07-03-2011, 06:15 PM
Good ridence. I'm seriously so glad this has happened. Now lets hope we can trade him for something half decent like we did with Purcey

jaysnraptors44
07-03-2011, 06:55 PM
cool dont really care .. snider still has to prove he can hit in the big leagues so im gonna give him 5 days before he earns my respect, hopefully we see the homerun and double type of snider not the pop up and strike out snider

broncosfan_101
07-03-2011, 07:10 PM
cool dont really care .. snider still has to prove he can hit in the big leagues so im gonna give him 5 days before he earns my respect, hopefully we see the homerun and double type of snider not the pop up and strike out snider

I actually laughed out loud. :laugh2:

Billyen
07-03-2011, 07:17 PM
Great. 2 more to go....EE and Patterson and we are done getting rid of the deadwood.

Please bring Loewen up.

DwayneMVPwade
07-03-2011, 07:23 PM
Yesss!!!!

Bob Loblaw
07-03-2011, 07:34 PM
this is great news. i wonder if the apparent return of EEs power influenced the decision to keep him over Rivera?

jaysnraptors44
07-03-2011, 08:37 PM
I actually laughed out loud. :laugh2:

when i say 5 days i mean i want him hitting at least 200 if not he sucks thames is here and he has my respect because the guy is showing he can hit.. but snider better get at least a double in those 5 games because he is such a big deal and is going to hit 35-40 hr in the future according to the experts on this forum

Farsight
07-03-2011, 08:38 PM
this is great news. i wonder if the apparent return of EEs power influenced the decision to keep him over Rivera?
Probably kept Encarnacion because the outfield is more crowded than the infield. Furthermore, Rivera just becomes redundant with the call up of Snider

Farsight
07-03-2011, 08:46 PM
when i say 5 days i mean i want him hitting at least 200 if not he sucks thames is here and he has my respect because the guy is showing he can hit.. but snider better get at least a double in those 5 games because he is such a big deal and is going to hit 35-40 hr in the future according to the experts on this forum Small sample size. Thames only has 77 at bats currently. You cant really infer any information from such a small amount of plate appearances, other than the fact that he has been playing well over that period of time

broncosfan_101
07-03-2011, 08:50 PM
when i say 5 days i mean i want him hitting at least 200 if not he sucks thames is here and he has my respect because the guy is showing he can hit.. but snider better get at least a double in those 5 games because he is such a big deal and is going to hit 35-40 hr in the future according to the experts on this forum

I just want the record to show that I'm neither a Snider believer or doubter at this point, but everyone should know that nothing concrete can be shown in less than a week. Nothing.

jaysnraptors44
07-03-2011, 08:57 PM
I just want the record to show that I'm neither a Snider believer or doubter at this point, but everyone should know that nothing concrete can be shown in less than a week. Nothing.

all im saying is snider doesnt have my respect right now .. i know a week can't prove if a player is a bust or going to be an all star...

Farsight
07-03-2011, 09:09 PM
all im saying is snider doesnt have my respect right now .. i know a week can't prove if a player is a bust or going to be an all star...
How does Thames have your respect after playing well for 2 weeks? i can show you weeks and months were Snider has played well also

wamco
07-03-2011, 09:17 PM
all well and good, but you can't argue that he hasn't lost some luster as a can't miss prospect over the past 2 years.

jaysnraptors44
07-03-2011, 09:20 PM
How does Thames have your respect after playing well for 2 weeks? i can show you weeks and months were Snider has played well also

he has been playing well the first time he got to the big leagues then he got sent down and got called up again and has continued to play well ..

Mitchell133
07-03-2011, 09:29 PM
I can't believe it!

I was thinking to myself just today during the game when the camera showed Rivera sitting on the bench looking all frustrated and pissed off, about how obvious it is he doesn't fit in.

I appreciate the efforts Juan, but your days are over.

As for T-Snides, hopefully he follows the same steps as Thames.

T.O. Fan
07-03-2011, 09:33 PM
all well and good, but you can't argue that he hasn't lost some luster as a can't miss prospect over the past 2 years.

Welcome back

Nica
07-03-2011, 09:42 PM
No you don't have to be a gazelle to play an effective CF. Jim Edmonds was a smart and fearless fielder who utilized quickness and positioning more so than blazing foot speed. That being said it was exciting as hell to see Davis get on base and aggressively utilize raw speed to steal bases. Made me flash back to the Rickey Henderson days when he would somehow get on base and you just knew that in two or three pitches he would be on 2nd or even 3rd and in scoring position.
I don't think Davis is necessarily that guy ( won't or can't walk and has an ugly -*** swing with little pitch selection) but Michael Borne is up for arbitration next year and a FA in 13. I would love to see him in a Jays uniform.

cdsouz01
07-03-2011, 09:50 PM
from what he has showed in the past, Snider does not have the speed, nor does he run good enough routes to be a CF. BUT he hustles his *** off and will lay out to make a diving catch if he has too.

As long as he keeps up the good attitude and hustle, theres no reason why we all shouldnt be behind him as a CF.

fatkev78
07-03-2011, 09:51 PM
FWIW, Snider didn't play CF last night according to Wilner, he played a corner spot.

Bombtista
07-03-2011, 10:39 PM
i feel bad for Rivera, he is still a major league player but things just didnt seem consistent for him this year. Gotta figure that misplay in LF had something to do with it. Best of luck to him but also excited to see Snider again

Shifty1 69
07-03-2011, 11:56 PM
when i say 5 days i mean i want him hitting at least 200 if not he sucks thames is here and he has my respect because the guy is showing he can hit.. but snider better get at least a double in those 5 games because he is such a big deal and is going to hit 35-40 hr in the future according to the experts on this forum

Wow, just wow:facepalm::D

Good to see him up. With Thames and JPA already looking like impact big leaguers, Lawrie coming soon along with some good consistent pitching this is getting more and more fun to watch.:clap:

2009mvp
07-04-2011, 12:02 AM
all im saying is snider doesnt have my respect right now .. i know a week can't prove if a player is a bust or going to be an all star...

Oh my. How will poor Travis even sleep at night?


all well and good, but you can't argue that he hasn't lost some luster as a can't miss prospect over the past 2 years.

No doubt, but at least we know age is still on his side.


FWIW, Snider didn't play CF last night according to Wilner, he played a corner spot.

And Lott says Snider will be in right in Boston and swap corner spots with Thames after that, so the CF experiment is likely over (if that's what it was).

Billyen
07-04-2011, 01:33 AM
Welcome back

x2

Farsight
07-04-2011, 01:34 AM
he has been playing well the first time he got to the big leagues then he got sent down and got called up again and has continued to play well ..

When Snider was called up in 2008, he posted a line of

At bats=80, Hits=22, HR=2, Runs=9, RBI=13, BB%=6.3%, k%=31.5 %, ISO=.164, BABIP=.400, AVG=.301, OBP=.338, SLG=.466, wOBA=.345

Thames is currently posting a line of

At bats= 77, Hits=23, HR=2, Runs=14, RBI=8, BB%=5.2%, K%=31.9 %, ISO=.208, BABIP=.447, AVG=.319, OBP=.364, SLG=.528 , wOBA=.387

You cant really gauge a lot of information from the stat lines i presented. However, they both performed very well when they first got called up. Thames is performing a little better. However, Snider was posting these numbers at the age of 19, compared to Thames at the age of 24.

Moreover, Thames has a high BABIP (so does Snider, but not as high). This indicates that he has been really lucky and will probably regress quiet a bit (average BABIP is .300)

I really like both players, i hope that they do well... But to say that you have more faith in Thames, who only has 77 at bats, compared to Snider, is pretty ludicrous. Snider has been toyed around with. The jays just have to give him at bat instead of sending him down to the minors every time he struggles. He had nothing left to prove in the minors.

Billyen
07-04-2011, 01:42 AM
Gotta figure that misplay in LF had something to do with it.

Ya...that was a shocker. Just needed to catch it and we would have won that game

1hardcore
07-04-2011, 03:53 AM
I hope the offense is bollstered....

coz they need it badly!!!

Kenny Powders
07-04-2011, 07:41 AM
I really expected more out of Rivera. The guy made some contributions to some very good teams. Maybe he realized this team was going nowhere this year and he wasn't in the fold for the future so he packed it in. Finally glad to see him gone and Snider back up! This team is finallly starting to take shape.

mkcavy
07-04-2011, 10:17 AM
Glad Snider is back up. I'd rather see him than Rivera right now. Hopefully the guy will stay healthy and put up another 300AB by season's end so the team can finally get a good feel for him. Still not sold on him as a blue chip prospect like he was considered 3-4 years ago, but here's hoping.

North Yorker
07-04-2011, 10:21 AM
Snider is in the starting lineup for today's game.

Big Hurt
07-04-2011, 10:24 AM
I really expected more out of Rivera. The guy made some contributions to some very good teams. Maybe he realized this team was going nowhere this year and he wasn't in the fold for the future so he packed it in. Finally glad to see him gone and Snider back up! This team is finallly starting to take shape.

I can see how Rivera would be a useful piece on a stronger offensive team.
He can play a dandy 1B, and is OK on the OF corners.
Decent player as a DH and a nice power bat of the bench.

Just was not a good fit with us trying to work in some young bodies.

JaysFan87
07-04-2011, 10:41 AM
wow ppl really have no patience when it comes to prospects especially top prospects. You guys are really really low on a guy who hit .255/.304/.463 as a 22 year old in the MLB. LIke **** it takes time and there are going to be bumps in the road. I guess ppl see Thames and think that if you dont come up here and hit insanely good then your bust. If ppl think Thames is not going to hit a snag then they are delusional.

mkcavy
07-04-2011, 11:02 AM
You guys are really really low on a guy who hit .255/.304/.463 as a 22 year old in the MLB.

But is hitting .184/.276/.264 as a 23 year old.

Look, I'm not out to slag the kid. He's young, he's still developing, and he has all the tools to be a 30 homerun hitter in the majors. That said, there is just something that alarms me when I watch him. Maybe it's the fact that when he's missing pitches, he's REALLY missing pitches and looks completely lost. Maybe it's the fact that he gets injured at a concerning rate for his age. Maybe it's both of those combined with the fact that I view him as a sub-par defensive fielder. But these are all just personal opinions and very subjective from someone who has no right to be evaluating prospects as an arm-chair GM.

I really, really hope I'm wrong. This team could be much better for a very long time if he improves on his 2010 season. He's still got a couple years to prove himself yet.

Bombtista
07-04-2011, 11:04 AM
wow ppl really have no patience when it comes to prospects especially top prospects. You guys are really really low on a guy who hit .255/.304/.463 as a 22 year old in the MLB. LIke **** it takes time and there are going to be bumps in the road. I guess ppl see Thames and think that if you dont come up here and hit insanely good then your bust. If ppl think Thames is not going to hit a snag then they are delusional.

Well yes but hitting under .200 which snider was, a demotion is always in order. His upside is still there and hopefully he can turn it around. Obviously Thames isnt going to hit a home run a game but to expect that he will have a major slump before too long is just pessimistic. He has been in the minors for a few years and he has been up and down already this season. You gotta think he is ready for the big leagues rather than not at this point. All MLB players slump and his will be no different than that because in my opinion he is major league ready

Rogi10
07-04-2011, 11:07 AM
Well yes but hitting under .200 which snider was, a demotion is always in order. His upside is still there and hopefully he can turn it around. Obviously Thames isnt going to hit a home run a game but to expect that he will have a major slump before too long is just pessimistic. He has been in the minors for a few years and he has been up and down already this season. You gotta think he is ready for the big leagues rather than not at this point. All MLB players slump and his will be no different than that because in my opinion he is major league ready

His ridiculously high BABIP (something like .447) strongly suggests he will regress.

koreancabbage
07-04-2011, 11:49 AM
His ridiculously high BABIP (something like .447) strongly suggests he will regress.

sure but also he hits in front of Bautista, which is the major reason for his success right now.

i bet if you put either Hill or Snider in that two hole for an extended period of time will get you better numbers in the long run lol

we have a good front 4 but right after that hitters 5-9 struggle mightily

StayOnBoard
07-04-2011, 12:14 PM
wow ppl really have no patience when it comes to prospects especially top prospects. You guys are really really low on a guy who hit .255/.304/.463 as a 22 year old in the MLB. LIke **** it takes time and there are going to be bumps in the road. I guess ppl see Thames and think that if you dont come up here and hit insanely good then your bust. If ppl think Thames is not going to hit a snag then they are delusional.

I've been saying this for months... people are delusional - and yes, they do expect miracles from young players the moment they arrive to the show.

It'll be another Adrian Gonzalez situation. Taken 2nd overall.... was a very highly touted prospect..... was ran out of town (in TWO cities, no less) then goes to Petro park of all places and starts ripping the ball in half. Now he's one of the best players in baseball. What was he doing at age 23? Trying to get out of AAA.... what's he doing now? I'm sure I don't need to post his stat line.

But yes, people are far too impatient to see what the kid will be like in a year or two. Honestly, I have my doubts we'll get to see it - but in a few years when Snider plays for another team we can talk about "remember when he was with us? Why did we let him go? That kid's a beast!!!"

bartron_44
07-04-2011, 12:20 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Loewen get a shot in September...but what I would like to see is the return of David Cooper for a real shot at hitting in the big leagues. Sure the guy struggled his first go around, but the season he is having in AAA this year is ridiculous!

He now has 32 doubles and 8 HR's and 60 RBI's in only 62 games (250 AB's)! He is hitting .380 with an OBP of .442,and he has 30 BB's compared to only 22 K's. He also kicks it up a notch with runners on, and is hitting .419 with RISP.

Other then hitting HR's, which has never been his forte, this kid is BEASTING (OPS of 1.024).

fatkev78
07-04-2011, 12:26 PM
But yes, people are far too impatient to see what the kid will be like in a year or two. Honestly, I have my doubts we'll get to see it - but in a few years when Snider plays for another team we can talk about "remember when he was with us? Why did we let him go? That kid's a beast!!!"

Nah, AA isn't a GM that listens to the fans. He'll do what's right for the team and give Snider the time he needs. Unless a trade offer comes along that he can't refuse of course.
However, I do understand your frustration with many fans.

StayOnBoard
07-04-2011, 12:52 PM
Nah, AA isn't a GM that listens to the fans. He'll do what's right for the team and give Snider the time he needs. Unless a trade offer comes along that he can't refuse of course.
However, I do understand your frustration with many fans.

I agree AA doesn't listen to fans (thank God) but it might be a matter of selling high? We'll see how he does in this go-round at the MLB level. If he puts on a show and finally looks healthy then I think he'll be safe. If he struggles and we can get top return for the former top prospect I have a feeling he might get traded (though I hope not).

I'd LOVE to see a Thames/Gose/Snider outfielder next year... might be too early for Gose yet so I guess that puke Davis will have to man CF for the time being. Still though - keeping Thames and Snider in the corner spots has huge potential IMO.

Now, we just need to get rid of Aaron Hill whom my patience has indeed left the building with..... Maybe we can trade him for something <anything> before the trade deadline. I'd prefer Johnny Mac playing 2nd for the rest of the year rather than our auto-out friend. Don't know what happened to that guy, he was a beast one year and then haven't been able to do anything since. I said back then we should have traded him at his highest value and was torn apart (limb by limb) by the Jays fans here - funny how SOMETIMES hindsight is 20/20 eh? :)

Bob_at_york
07-04-2011, 12:59 PM
Sucks that Rivera didn't work out. I was hopeful that we could have gotten something for him in a trade. Happy to see Snider come back up.


Now, we just need to get rid of Aaron Hill whom my patience has indeed left the building with..... Maybe we can trade him for something <anything> before the trade deadline. I'd prefer Johnny Mac playing 2nd for the rest of the year rather than our auto-out friend. Don't know what happened to that guy, he was a beast one year and then haven't been able to do anything since. I said back then we should have traded him at his highest value and was torn apart (limb by limb) by the Jays fans here - funny how SOMETIMES hindsight is 20/20 eh? :)
Yeah, you weren't alone in your assessment of Hill, I really don't think this is the thread to say "I told you so".

StayOnBoard
07-04-2011, 01:01 PM
Sucks that Rivera didn't work out. I was hopeful that we could have gotten something for him in a trade. Happy to see Snider come back up.


Yeah, you weren't alone in your assessment of Hill, I really don't think this is the thread to say "I told you so".

Oh? Which thread is that then? Please point it out, I'll gladly post it there :)

BTW - for reference, I'm talking about the season AFTER he hit 36 home runs, not last season.

Bob_at_york
07-04-2011, 01:03 PM
Oh? Which thread is that then? Please point it out, I'll gladly post it there :)


Find one about hill or create one.

bomber0104
07-04-2011, 01:29 PM
I agree AA doesn't listen to fans (thank God) but it might be a matter of selling high? We'll see how he does in this go-round at the MLB level. If he puts on a show and finally looks healthy then I think he'll be safe. If he struggles and we can get top return for the former top prospect I have a feeling he might get traded (though I hope not).

I'd LOVE to see a Thames/Gose/Snider outfielder next year... might be too early for Gose yet so I guess that puke Davis will have to man CF for the time being. Still though - keeping Thames and Snider in the corner spots has huge potential IMO.

Now, we just need to get rid of Aaron Hill whom my patience has indeed left the building with..... Maybe we can trade him for something <anything> before the trade deadline. I'd prefer Johnny Mac playing 2nd for the rest of the year rather than our auto-out friend. Don't know what happened to that guy, he was a beast one year and then haven't been able to do anything since. I said back then we should have traded him at his highest value and was torn apart (limb by limb) by the Jays fans here - funny how SOMETIMES hindsight is 20/20 eh? :)

what kind of message you would be sending the fans when u trade the MVP of your team who happens to play GG defense at 2B and is coming off a 36 HR season

StayOnBoard
07-04-2011, 01:33 PM
what kind of message you would be sending the fans when u trade the MVP of your team who happens to play GG defense at 2B and is coming off a 36 HR season

I think people call it "striking while the iron is hot".

Regardless, as our mod nicely pointed out we shouldn't have this discussion on this particular thread. Though - one fantastic thing would have been the game day threads wouldn't be **** this **** you ***** Hill I ****ing hate you the Jays ****ing suck **** rawr... <3

craigerlee
07-04-2011, 02:05 PM
I think people call it "striking while the iron is hot".

Regardless, as our mod nicely pointed out we shouldn't have this discussion on this particular thread. Though - one fantastic thing would have been the game day threads wouldn't be **** this **** you ***** Hill I ****ing hate you the Jays ****ing suck **** rawr... <3

The thing with Hill is that he had an awesome contract. Pretty much of all club options at a very reasonable price considering that he had the potential to put 30+ HR's while playing above average D. It he went to **** you weren't saddled with him permanently, and with no 2B in the minors in sight, it would have been tough to trade him even though the price was high on him.

StayOnBoard
07-04-2011, 02:21 PM
The thing with Hill is that he had an awesome contract. Pretty much of all club options at a very reasonable price considering that he had the potential to put 30+ HR's while playing above average D. It he went to **** you weren't saddled with him permanently, and with no 2B in the minors in sight, it would have been tough to trade him even though the price was high on him.

I don't disagree with you at all and it is a very team-friendly contract.

Wasn't my point at all.... and no - my point wasn't even supposed to be "I told you so". The point was supposed to be, people should be just a TAD more open minded and not rip the **** out of people for posting what <some> deem to be <stupid idea's> like trading our "superstar" second baseman. Obviously, no one can see into the future and it was more fluke than anything that Hill is THIS BAD in my opinion.... but you should at least look at selling high on players but around these parts such conversations(ie: threads) are swiftly dealt with by the "experts" before they even begin.

wamco
07-04-2011, 03:50 PM
pct chance hill's options are picked up?

wamco
07-04-2011, 03:50 PM
so if the jays promote snider, rays promote jennings and the yanks promote montero, how exactly does this close the gap between us and them?

JaysFan87
07-04-2011, 03:52 PM
But is hitting .184/.276/.264 as a 23 year old.Look, I'm not out to slag the kid. He's young, he's still developing, and he has all the tools to be a 30 homerun hitter in the majors. That said, there is just something that alarms me when I watch him. Maybe it's the fact that when he's missing pitches, he's REALLY missing pitches and looks completely lost. Maybe it's the fact that he gets injured at a concerning rate for his age. Maybe it's both of those combined with the fact that I view him as a sub-par defensive fielder. But these are all just personal opinions and very subjective from someone who has no right to be evaluating prospects as an arm-chair GM.

I really, really hope I'm wrong. This team could be much better for a very long time if he improves on his 2010 season. He's still got a couple years to prove himself yet.

In 99 AB? So you think that tells you more about him than the previous 500AB? Talk about recentcy effect.

T.O. Fan
07-04-2011, 04:06 PM
pct chance hill's options are picked up?

0.0000000001

wamco
07-04-2011, 04:36 PM
787 ops at age 22, lastings milledge
757 ops at age 24, chase headley
925 ops at age 24, josh phelps
788 ops at age 24, josh fields

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/dose-reality-prospect-watchers

Victor Wang has done some tremendous research about prospects and their value. In determining their value he had to find the rate of which players bust in each category he divided them into. This is a healthy dose of realism to keep in mind when we’re looking at the any one club’s farm system.

* 10% of top 10 hitting prospects bust.
* 31% of top 10 pitching prospects bust.
* 21% of top 11-25 hitting prospects bust.
* 32% of top 11-25 pitching prospects bust.
* 35% of top 26-50 hitting prospects bust.
* 33% of top 26-50 pitching prospects bust.
* 45% of top 51-75 hitting prospects bust.
* 39% of top 51-75 pitching prospects bust.
* 43% of top 76-100 hitting prospects bust.
* 43% of top 76-100 pitching prospects bust.
* 59% of ‘B grade’ hitting prospects bust.
* 52% of ‘B grade’ pitching prospects bust.
* 83% of ‘C grade’ hitting prospects bust.
* Around 75% of all ‘C grade’ pitching prospects bust.

Top 100 prospects are Baseball America’s. B and C grades are as ranked by prospect wonk John Sickels.

wamco
07-04-2011, 04:37 PM
In 99 AB? So you think that tells you more about him than the previous 500AB? Talk about recentcy effect.

tells you something that major league team keeps sending him back to the minors

Bombtista
07-04-2011, 06:20 PM
What kind of return do you guys think we would actually get for Hill? I dont think we should give up on him just yet since he was an all-star player just a few years ago.

If we couldnt get a solid return for him i dont see the point. Johnny Mac starting at second base is a clear downgrade from what Hill has been doing and significantly worse than what he capable of.

craigerlee
07-04-2011, 06:33 PM
^^I don't understand the point of trading Hill for probably nothing, when there is no alternative in the minors, and nothing coming up on FA. Why not just decline his option and resign him to a smaller contract.

wamco
07-04-2011, 06:48 PM
he won't be traded, noone will want him at that contract.

2009mvp
07-04-2011, 08:03 PM
^^Strictly as a half season rental (no one's exercising those options) I'd say there would definitely be a market for Hill. Would it net us a return that would justify having to start McDonald/McCoy for half a season? I seriously doubt it, but I'm sure there would be some interest.

wamco
07-04-2011, 09:03 PM
there is a market for poop on ebay i suppose. Noone wants hill even for a half year rental as a starter, why would they?

2009mvp
07-04-2011, 11:10 PM
^^Could have said the same thing about Mark Ellis (.237/.270/.349) yet he was moved a couple days ago.

craigerlee
07-04-2011, 11:24 PM
^^Could have said the same thing about Mark Ellis (.237/.270/.349) yet he was moved a couple days ago.

He went to a team that wants to make a playoff push this year no less. I agree I'm pretty sure if AA wants to trade Hill for a fringy reliever like Oakland did he could. Unfortunately AA doesn't have a Jemile Weeks to take Hill's spot.

wamco
07-05-2011, 11:21 PM
Oh, i thought you meant traded for an actual player with a chance to stick in mlb, not a wiggins type

wamco
07-05-2011, 11:35 PM
some of the love for snider comes out of desperation, at least toward the beginning as he was the only real stud batting option coming up through the minors.

Rugger
07-07-2011, 05:57 PM
Even if we get nothing for Rivera/Nix, they still won't be missed by many