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Mile High Champ
07-01-2011, 11:40 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last three years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 3 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best

2011 SG Rankings

1) Dwyane Wade
2) Kobe Bryant
3) Manu Ginobili
4) Joe Johnson
5) Monta Ellis
6) Kevin Martin
7) Ray Allen
8)
9)
10)



2010 Off-Season SG Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwyane Wade
3) Brandon Roy
4) Joe Johnson
5) Manu Ginobili
6) Monta Ellis
7) Ray Allen
8) Stephen Jackson
9) O.J. Mayo
10) Jason Richardson

2009 Off-Season SG Rankings:

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwayne Wade
3) Brandon Roy
4) Joe Johnson
5) Vince Carter
6) Manu Ginobili
7) Ray Allen
8) Kevin Martin
9) Ben Gordon
10) Richard Hamilton

2008 Off-Season SG rankings:

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwayne Wade
3) Tracy McGrady
4) Allen Iverson
5) Manu Ginobili
5) Vince Carter
7) Joe Johnson
8) Ray Allen
9) Brandon Roy
10) Kevin Martin

SteBO
07-01-2011, 11:43 AM
Eric Gordon for sure here......

Mile High Champ
07-01-2011, 11:43 AM
Lets get voting everyone!

Swashcuff
07-01-2011, 11:44 AM
Eric Gordon hands down no questions asked. Best 2 way player left.

SteBO
07-01-2011, 11:45 AM
Gordon should win this in a landslide imo. I really enjoy watching him play.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-01-2011, 11:45 AM
Gordon.

Swashcuff
07-01-2011, 11:45 AM
Gordon should win this in a landslide imo. I really enjoy watching him play.

My sentiments exactly

Swashcuff
07-01-2011, 11:46 AM
Mile High it would be nice if you can include Tony Allen in the polls following. Thanks!

Mile High Champ
07-01-2011, 11:50 AM
Mile High it would be nice if you can include Tony Allen in the polls following. Thanks!

I can but I don't see the point. Do you really see him as top 10?

Sadds The Gr8
07-01-2011, 11:50 AM
why? Tony Allen isn't as good as anybody on the list...

xxplayerxx23
07-01-2011, 11:58 AM
Fields on the list please? lmao ANyway Im going steven jackson Lol Jk gordon easy

b_russ
07-01-2011, 12:03 PM
Fields on the list please? lmao ANyway Im going steven jackson Lol Jk gordon easy

Why put Fields? To encourage ignorant voting?

jtsunami
07-01-2011, 12:05 PM
Can we include Afflalo in the poll for 9 and 10 please?

Snowman23
07-01-2011, 12:05 PM
Gordon/Harden/Tyreke to finish the top 10

xxplayerxx23
07-01-2011, 12:09 PM
Why put Fields? To encourage ignorant voting?

Someone said toney allen so I brought up fields Im not serious. Just messing around/

barreleffact
07-01-2011, 12:13 PM
Gordon/Harden/Tyreke to finish the top 10

so harden and fields are better than Roy?:rolleyes:

Snowman23
07-01-2011, 12:16 PM
so harden and fields are better than Roy?:rolleyes:

Harden and Tyreke are better than Roy(with bad knees)

barreleffact
07-01-2011, 12:22 PM
Harden and Tyreke are better than Roy(with bad knees)

I disagree. Roy is still the better player, he just can't play as often and with as much intensity. He is still leaps and bounds better than them. I would obviously take Reke and maybe Harden over Roy considering their youth/health, but talent wise they don't measure up to Roy. I just hope he can heal to let people know what they forgot about.

Swashcuff
07-01-2011, 12:24 PM
I can but I don't see the point. Do you really see him as top 10?

I would like to try to make a case for him. I mean at the SG position defense is half the game and their is no debating that he is indeed the best defensive SG in the league IMO.

Also among SGs he was 10th in TS% (no player left on the poll ranks higher than he does), 15th in WS, 7th in WS/48 (James Harden only remaining player who ranks higher), 7th in PER (see TS%), 4th in SPM (despite not being a starter for a large part of the season the only player in the top 20 who could have qualified for 6MOY voting) 15th in the entire NBA

Most importantly for me the Grizzlies were a much improved team when he was in the starting line-up. 19-12 with him in the starting line-up good enough for a .612 winning % as opposed to a 27-24 record without him good enough for a .529 winning %.

As a starter he averaged 13.4 points per game on 54.1 FG% and being asked not only to guard the opposing team's best perimeter player but also asked to guard the 1, 2 or/and the 3.

He deserves to be in the conversation because IMO in terms of production he's more valuable than any other player who will be left on the polls to follow.

SPM (Statistical +/)


Player G Min OSPM DSPM SPM
Chris Paul 80 2865 6.34 2.91 9.25
LeBron James 79 3063 7.30 1.46 8.76
Dwight Howard 78 2935 2.56 4.68 7.24
Dwyane Wade 76 2824 5.89 0.79 6.68
Manu Ginobili 80 2426 5.50 1.01 6.51
Kobe Bryant 82 2779 6.75 -1.08 5.67
Derrick Rose 81 3026 6.41 -1.03 5.38
Kevin Love 73 2611 5.33 0.05 5.37
Kevin Garnett 71 2220 0.86 4.20 5.06
Kevin Durant 78 3038 5.59 -0.61 4.97
Dirk Nowitzki 73 2504 4.93 -0.04 4.89
Paul Pierce 80 2774 3.28 1.41 4.70
Ru Westbrook 82 2847 4.88 -0.42 4.46
Deron Williams 65 2465 5.61 -1.18 4.43
Tony Allen 72 1494 0.65 3.58 4.23
Nene Hilario 75 2291 2.06 2.08 4.15
Rajon Rondo 68 2527 1.18 2.71 3.89
Pau Gasol 82 3037 3.23 0.65 3.88
Kevin Martin 80 2603 5.83 -1.97 3.86

Sadds The Gr8
07-01-2011, 12:28 PM
I would like to try to make a case for him. I mean at the SG position defense is half the game and their is no debating that he is indeed the best defensive SG in the league IMO.

Also among SGs he was 10th in TS% (no player left on the poll ranks higher than he does), 15th in WS, 7th in WS/48 (James Harden only remaining player who ranks higher), 7th in PER (see TS%), 4th in SPM (despite not being a starter for a large part of the season the only player in the top 20 who could have qualified for 6MOY voting) 15th in the entire NBA

Most importantly for me the Grizzlies were a much improved team when he was in the starting line-up. 19-12 with him in the starting line-up good enough for a .612 winning % as opposed to a 27-24 record without him good enough for a .529 winning %.

As a starter he averaged 13.4 points per game on 54.1 FG% and being asked not only to guard the opposing team's best perimeter player but also asked to guard the 1, 2 or/and the 3.

He deserves to be in the conversation because IMO in terms of production he's more valuable than any other player who will be left on the polls to follow.

SPM (Statistical +/)


Player G Min OSPM DSPM SPM
Chris Paul 80 2865 6.34 2.91 9.25
LeBron James 79 3063 7.30 1.46 8.76
Dwight Howard 78 2935 2.56 4.68 7.24
Dwyane Wade 76 2824 5.89 0.79 6.68
Manu Ginobili 80 2426 5.50 1.01 6.51
Kobe Bryant 82 2779 6.75 -1.08 5.67
Derrick Rose 81 3026 6.41 -1.03 5.38
Kevin Love 73 2611 5.33 0.05 5.37
Kevin Garnett 71 2220 0.86 4.20 5.06
Kevin Durant 78 3038 5.59 -0.61 4.97
Dirk Nowitzki 73 2504 4.93 -0.04 4.89
Paul Pierce 80 2774 3.28 1.41 4.70
Ru Westbrook 82 2847 4.88 -0.42 4.46
Deron Williams 65 2465 5.61 -1.18 4.43
Tony Allen 72 1494 0.65 3.58 4.23
Nene Hilario 75 2291 2.06 2.08 4.15
Rajon Rondo 68 2527 1.18 2.71 3.89
Pau Gasol 82 3037 3.23 0.65 3.88
Kevin Martin 80 2603 5.83 -1.97 3.86

i don't think he's top ten but that was a nice stat

Swashcuff
07-01-2011, 12:28 PM
Someone said toney allen so I brought up fields Im not serious. Just messing around/

I was serious about Tony Allen because he deserves to be there.

Snowman23
07-01-2011, 12:28 PM
I disagree. Roy is still the better player, he just can't play as often and with as much intensity. He is still leaps and bounds better than them. I would obviously take Reke and maybe Harden over Roy considering their youth/health, but talent wise they don't measure up to Roy. I just hope he can heal to let people know what they forgot about.

Trust me Roy is one of my favorite player, and I would love to see him heel. When he is healthy I think he's a top 10 player and the 3rd best shooting guard in the league, but right now things don't look good for him. That's why I would take both Harden and Tyreke over him. But when healthy no doubt he's better than them.

barreleffact
07-01-2011, 12:33 PM
I would like to try to make a case for him. I mean at the SG position defense is half the game and their is no debating that he is indeed the best defensive SG in the league IMO.

Also among SGs he was 10th in TS% (no player left on the poll ranks higher than he does), 15th in WS, 7th in WS/48 (James Harden only remaining player who ranks higher), 7th in PER (see TS%), 4th in SPM (despite not being a starter for a large part of the season the only player in the top 20 who could have qualified for 6MOY voting) 15th in the entire NBA

Most importantly for me the Grizzlies were a much improved team when he was in the starting line-up. 19-12 with him in the starting line-up good enough for a .612 winning % as opposed to a 27-24 record without him good enough for a .529 winning %.

As a starter he averaged 13.4 points per game on 54.1 FG% and being asked not only to guard the opposing team's best perimeter player but also asked to guard the 1, 2 or/and the 3.

He deserves to be in the conversation because IMO in terms of production he's more valuable than any other player who will be left on the polls to follow.

SPM (Statistical +/)


Player G Min OSPM DSPM SPM
Chris Paul 80 2865 6.34 2.91 9.25
LeBron James 79 3063 7.30 1.46 8.76
Dwight Howard 78 2935 2.56 4.68 7.24
Dwyane Wade 76 2824 5.89 0.79 6.68
Manu Ginobili 80 2426 5.50 1.01 6.51
Kobe Bryant 82 2779 6.75 -1.08 5.67
Derrick Rose 81 3026 6.41 -1.03 5.38
Kevin Love 73 2611 5.33 0.05 5.37
Kevin Garnett 71 2220 0.86 4.20 5.06
Kevin Durant 78 3038 5.59 -0.61 4.97
Dirk Nowitzki 73 2504 4.93 -0.04 4.89
Paul Pierce 80 2774 3.28 1.41 4.70
Ru Westbrook 82 2847 4.88 -0.42 4.46
Deron Williams 65 2465 5.61 -1.18 4.43
Tony Allen 72 1494 0.65 3.58 4.23
Nene Hilario 75 2291 2.06 2.08 4.15
Rajon Rondo 68 2527 1.18 2.71 3.89
Pau Gasol 82 3037 3.23 0.65 3.88
Kevin Martin 80 2603 5.83 -1.97 3.86

He still wont win top ten to most people, but this poll is generally crap anyway. That being said you def proved he deserved to be a poll option

Avenged
07-01-2011, 12:42 PM
If you have Stephen Jackson in the top 10, then you need Tony Allen since he's better than him.

Can't believe S-JAX actually has a few votes.

Went Gordon here though, again.

SteBO
07-01-2011, 12:47 PM
If you have Stephen Jackson in the top 10, then you need Tony Allen since he's better than him.

Can't believe S-JAX actually has a few votes.

Went Gordon here though, again.
If we're talking defensively, then yes Toney Allen is better than Stephen Jackson. Offensively, not really imo. This list is somewhat in shambles anyway. It's just been a popularity contest.

Swashcuff
07-01-2011, 12:55 PM
If we're talking defensively, then yes Toney Allen is better than Stephen Jackson. Offensively, not really imo. This list is somewhat in shambles anyway. It's just been a popularity contest.

Defense is half the game. Allen is as elite as perimeter defenders in today's NBA comes. Stephen Jackson offensively well not so much.

I can understand why someone would think Jackson is better and I wouldn't fault them for it but IMO in the for #9-10 Allen should be in the discussion (not expecting him to win it however).

SteBO
07-01-2011, 12:57 PM
Defense is half the game. Allen is as elite as perimeter defenders in today's NBA comes. Stephen Jackson offensively well not so much.

I can understand why someone would think Jackson is better and I wouldn't fault them for it but IMO in the for #9-10 Allen should be in the discussion (not expecting him to win it however).

Oh no I agree wholeheartedly. I actually wish people would factor in defense more than just offensive statistics. I just narrows the field of thought about who the most complete SG, hell any position in the NBA, is. Toney Allen has been underrated in my eyes for a few years actually. The Celtics really missed him this year against the Heat.

Avenged
07-01-2011, 12:59 PM
If we're talking defensively, then yes Toney Allen is better than Stephen Jackson. Offensively, not really imo. This list is somewhat in shambles anyway. It's just been a popularity contest.

I will disagree.. I do think S-JAX has a more offensive game but what's the point in that when he shoots a horrible percentage and is not very efficient on that end as well?

S-JAX shoots a ugly 41% from the field while Tony shoots 51%.

TS% for S-JAX is 52% compared to Tony's 56%.

eFG%? Tony Allen shoots at 51% while S-JAX shoots at 46%.

PER? Stephen Jackson is below the league avg with 14.6, Tony is at 18.4

Tony also turns the ball over less, beats him in ORtg, OWS, DRtg, DWS, WS and WS/48. Not to mention he's a better defender and is a major reason why the Grizzlies made it as far as they did.

SteBO
07-01-2011, 01:02 PM
I will disagree.. I do think S-JAX has a more offensive game but what's the point in that when he shoots a horrible percentage and is not very efficient on that end as well?

S-JAX shoots a ugly 41% from the field while Tony shoots 51%.

TS% for S-JAX is 52% compared to Tony's 56%.

eFG%? Tony Allen shoots at 51% while S-JAX shoots at 46%.

PER? Stephen Jackson is below the league avg with 14.6, Tony is at 18.4

Tony also turns the ball over less and at a lesser rate, beats him in ORtg, OWS, DRtg, DWS, WS and WS/48. Not to mention he's a better defender is a major reason why the Grizzlies made it as far as they did.
That's fair enough. I'm admittedly not an advanced stat person, hell stats period, for I really go on what I see. Jackson takes more shots, alot of bad ones too, so you're right on that count as well. I did agree with Swashcuff and yourself that Toney Allen is a better player than S-Jax though, when you factor in oth sides of the ball. Jackson is overrated as a defender.

Chacarron
07-01-2011, 01:09 PM
Eric Gordon Jr.

roshan3ai
07-01-2011, 01:18 PM
I voted Harden. Not cause he's on my mock team or anything :whistle:

Baller1
07-01-2011, 01:38 PM
The Black Manu Ginobili.

CHANGO
07-01-2011, 01:45 PM
Jason Terry...

Romo2Bryant
07-01-2011, 01:55 PM
Eric Gordon.

jason6692
07-01-2011, 01:55 PM
hey what about rudy fernandez ?! lol :D
gordon got this easily

tyfreaks brotha
07-01-2011, 02:14 PM
Gordan then Reke that Terry

JamaicanYouth
07-01-2011, 02:38 PM
Gordon is a top 5 SG in this league and is the 2nd best 2 way player at his position after wade shame he goes this late so underrated everyone pays attention to griffin but after the worlds last year he has been ballin as a matter of fact almost everyone who was on that team last summer improved greatly think about it....Chandler,Love,Rose,Gordon,Westbrook,Odom ect.

LTBaByyy
07-01-2011, 02:38 PM
Gordon, Terry, Harden

Hustlenomics
07-01-2011, 02:44 PM
Gordon but im voting Jamal Crawford

Wrigheyes4MVP
07-01-2011, 03:04 PM
Gordon, Tyreke, Terry should round out the top 10.

NYKnicksAllDay
07-01-2011, 03:57 PM
Gordon.

SportsFanatic10
07-01-2011, 05:52 PM
i got gordon here for sure

Redbull
07-01-2011, 07:47 PM
Jet.

GREATNESS ONE
07-01-2011, 08:30 PM
Gordon/ Tyreke /Harden

WorldWideJames
07-02-2011, 12:16 AM
I'm glad Gordon is winning this one in a landslide. H

cmellofan15
07-02-2011, 12:31 AM
Dwyane Wade changed must have changed his name in 2010

heattiltheend94
07-02-2011, 12:38 AM
Gordon the Reke then Ill take Roy because of his amazing comebackgame against the Mavs which proves he still has the capability just it is very sporadic

Niro
07-02-2011, 06:58 AM
Eric Gordon

LakersIn5
07-02-2011, 07:33 AM
gots to be matt carroll

Kashmir13579
07-02-2011, 05:45 PM
Bums gonna get voted in over Crawford once again. it'll be the same story next year, too. How this guy is so overlooked is beyond me.

LTBaByyy
07-02-2011, 07:08 PM
When is #9 gonna be put up???? Lets get this started

Kashmir13579
07-02-2011, 08:47 PM
.

tredigs
07-03-2011, 07:47 AM
Bums gonna get voted in over Crawford once again. it'll be the same story next year, too. How this guy is so overlooked is beyond me.

What is your case for Crawford over a guy like Eric Gordon (who I think can jump to as high as #3 if he's healthy next year)? I don't even think the two are comparable, and wouldn't have Crawford in the next slot either.

GoPacers33
07-03-2011, 02:16 PM
Eric G

Mile High Champ
07-03-2011, 03:40 PM
#9 Thread is up. Mods please close.