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View Full Version : Chris Jones Criticizes Blue Jays



jaysfan31
06-30-2011, 02:52 PM
On Grantland.com today (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6721804/the-empty-empty-rogers-centre), Chris Jones writes about how the team, despite being in a big market, hasn't been able to muster up much success of late. Here's an excerpt:

"Starting that year, the Blue Jays won the American League East four out of five seasons, going on to win back-to-back World Series in 1992 and 1993. They became the first major-league team to draw four million fans, which they did for three years running. Big-name players Paul Molitor, Dave Winfield, Rickey Henderson wanted to come here, because they knew they would win, and they knew they would get paid. (During their championship seasons, when they were bankrolled by the brewing titan Labatt, the Blue Jays had the biggest payroll in baseball.) There were parades and fireworks and wild celebrations. For a brief window of time, it seemed as though the success would never end.

It ended remarkably quickly. Most critically never mind the strike, or the stadium, or the dollar the team just wasn't good again, not even when Matt Stairs brought his broomstick to town. The post-season has become something that only other cities do. Since 1993, the Jays have finished no better than third in the A.L. East, with the exception of a single second-place finish in 2006; even then, they were ten games back of the Yankees. Their best post-World Series record 88-74 in 1998 still saw them 26 games out of first, and four games short of the wild card.

No matter what city (or country) you're in, it's hard to get excited about a summer that will end only in another meaningless fall."

What do you guys think about it? Is he justified in his criticism?

nithanyo
06-30-2011, 03:05 PM
i blame the fairweather fans and the uncaring media. theres too many who jumped off the wagon once we hit a few bumps and that started to snowball.

If the Jays are ever to return to the glory days it needs to start with the media. Rogers can do a better job promoting the jays. they own the team, broadcasting rights and the stadium. Its almost July and if i were to change it to TSN or Snet more likely than not im goin to catch hockey highlights. Weather it be the juniors, or womens cup or the NHL free agency rant where a bunch of old geezers sit around a table overanalyzing a signing by the columbus blue jackets. :speechless:

Secondly the fans. Many are willing to give the jays a chance if the fairweather fans got to kno about this team. Its a young and comming team with some of the best talent in the game on the brink of competition. Rogers can market this team better if only they knew. Rather than go all the way to Calgary to promote(not that its a bad thing) the team there we need to establish a stronger fanbase in toronto. get out to the kids more. theres a huge chinese and indian population in toronto. get out to them. if these people fall in love with the team, ticket sales will go up and revenue will go up hence allowing us to compete with the yankees and red sox on a yearly basis.

Ofcourse you cant have a rant without blaming the league. The yankees have 200 million to spend on players, the red sox have 170 million. If you were to add up the payroll of the jays, o's and rays you still dont reach that of the yankees. Capitalism is nice n all but this is a sport. Should there not be a level playing field?

Its not like the bad teams get a break either. The drafting system is so screwed small market teams with high picks are afraid to sign the big name players cus they cant afford to sign them. These are kids who have never played a game of professional ball yet teams cant sign them.

There are alot of changes that need to be made. But if they are made the right way this game can get better, and maybe the jays might get back to playing some october baseball.

mkcavy
06-30-2011, 03:09 PM
Factually he isn't wrong. I remember after the 2006 season how Riccardi praised himself for building a team that finished second in the AL East ahead of Boston. That really disappointed me to think we were happy with finishing 2nd.

The facts that Chris Jones doesn't really shed light on is the building process that went into the 1992/93 teams. Essentially, it began back in 1978 when they hired Gillick. But in reality the World Series run started in 1985 with the first AL East crown. That team, as good as it was, was completely turned over by the time 1992 came around. Assets like Fernandez and McGriff were traded for young talent like Alomar and Carter. It was only after these pieces started to fall into place that free agents like Molitor, Winfield, Morris and Henderson saw Toronto as a place to play.

Unless you're the Yankees and Red Soxs who spend to the max every year, sports teams are cyclical. I see AA starting a process of building assets, and preparing this team for a sustained run that could last 5 to 10 years. And Rogers has said the pocket book could open when needed. It's a process, and we may not see 4 million fans in the seats for almost a decade, but with a solid front management approach, we will get there again.

bartron_44
06-30-2011, 03:21 PM
I am not sure what he is even criticizing there....The fans , or the team.

The fans stopped coming after the strike, there is no question about that imo.

Now, the reason they never came back, is because the Jays never even sniffed the playoff for even most of a season after 93.

However, I think you need to ask this question?

DO THE OWNERS REALLY WANT TO WIN?

There is one statement that you can't ignore in his qoute:

"highest payroll in baseball"

We didn't just spend, WE SPENT THE MOST!! WE didn't just have the best team, we had the best owners...We built a team of all-star talent. With great players all over the field....kind of like who....maybe todays Red Sox and Yankees? Then in 94, Labatt's was sold, fans stopped coming, and owners didn't compete with Boston and New York as they raised their payrolls to build teams to beat us.

a guy from the Yankees and Sox said.....we have WAY more money then you punks from up north.....I will shoot my payroll to 200+M....here try to match this team of all-stars.

2009mvp
06-30-2011, 03:21 PM
So basically, the team isn't drawing (and hasn't really since '93) because they're not winning? Well...duh? Grantland doing what they do best, turning one sentence worth of opinion into 1000 words.

craigerlee
06-30-2011, 03:32 PM
I am not sure what he is even criticizing there....The fans , or the team.

The fans stopped coming after the strike, there is no question about that imo.

Now, the reason they never came back, is because the Jays never even sniffed the playoff for even most of a season after 93.

However, I think you need to ask this question?

DO THE OWNERS REALLY WANT TO WIN?

There is one statement that you can't ignore in his qoute:

"highest payroll in baseball"

We didn't just spend, WE SPENT THE MOST!! WE didn't just have the best team, we had the best owners...We built a team of all-star talent. With great players all over the field....kind of like who....maybe todays Red Sox and Yankees? Then in 94, Labatt's was sold, fans stopped coming, and owners didn't compete with Boston and New York as they raised their payrolls to build teams to beat us.

a guy from the Yankees and Sox said.....we have WAY more money then you punks from up north.....I will shoot my payroll to 200+M....here try to match this team of all-stars.

We dropped 100M+ one off season on Burnett and Ryan, and we took on payroll by trading for Overbay and Glaus. I got no problem with ownership, they just haven't been given a very good reason to open up those check books. Seeing the money were spending on the draft and international free agents, I really think ownership has done a good job opening up their wallets there, and I think they will to free agency once this team shows that they're a contender.

shortfuze
06-30-2011, 04:21 PM
i think for the most part. 8 or 9 years since the ws wins jp didnt know what direction to go in.

you have to draft properly before you start throwing money at players. AA has this team in the right direction. he will draft and trade for some good young players, then they can sign the final pieces.

i think the owners care and want to win, they just want to see something on the field first.

PJ Awesome
06-30-2011, 04:38 PM
Factually he isn't wrong. I remember after the 2006 season how Riccardi praised himself for building a team that finished second in the AL East ahead of Boston. That really disappointed me to think we were happy with finishing 2nd.

The facts that Chris Jones doesn't really shed light on is the building process that went into the 1992/93 teams. Essentially, it began back in 1978 when they hired Gillick. But in reality the World Series run started in 1985 with the first AL East crown. That team, as good as it was, was completely turned over by the time 1992 came around. Assets like Fernandez and McGriff were traded for young talent like Alomar and Carter. It was only after these pieces started to fall into place that free agents like Molitor, Winfield, Morris and Henderson saw Toronto as a place to play.

Unless you're the Yankees and Red Soxs who spend to the max every year, sports teams are cyclical. I see AA starting a process of building assets, and preparing this team for a sustained run that could last 5 to 10 years. And Rogers has said the pocket book could open when needed. It's a process, and we may not see 4 million fans in the seats for almost a decade, but with a solid front management approach, we will get there again.


This this and this

2009mvp
06-30-2011, 04:48 PM
We dropped 100M+ one off season on Burnett and Ryan, and we took on payroll by trading for Overbay and Glaus. I got no problem with ownership, they just haven't been given a very good reason to open up those check books. Seeing the money were spending on the draft and international free agents, I really think ownership has done a good job opening up their wallets there, and I think they will to free agency once this team shows that they're a contender.

Except that was when Ted Rogers was in charge. Everything changed when he passed.

fatkev78
06-30-2011, 05:42 PM
There is one statement that you can't ignore in his qoute:

"highest payroll in baseball"

We didn't just spend, WE SPENT THE MOST!!

The Jays payroll during the WS years was around 51 million IIRC, outspending teams by a few million dollars. Now the NYY, BOS, etc are outspending teams by $50 million plus. It's a different time.

To me it is pointless to look back 15 years and say the Jays have sucked forever. I look at each GM's tenure. Since AA has taken over I love the direction he's heading in and am willing to be patient. The fairweather fans will come back as well when the team becomes competitive.

To those that don't believe Rogers will spend when it comes to keeping their talent, I don't know what to tell ya. When Beeston says it I believe it. If you don't think they'll ever spend...why are you still watching?

MVP1
06-30-2011, 06:13 PM
I could care less what fairweather fans think. Don't try to throw money at will in order to get them to come to the ballpark. What AA is doing is taking a slow approach and he will make trades/sign free agents to help the team at the right time.

scottythegreat1
06-30-2011, 07:06 PM
What the Blue Jays have to do to bring everyone back is to make it fun and cut down the price of beer by about $2 and make a $2 section in the skydeck outfield area (its better than seeing it empty) unless its a Red Sox/Yankees game. The Blue Jays need to appeal to the average joe, not the guys that work on Bay Street.

Eagles4Lyfe
06-30-2011, 07:08 PM
Chris Jones first post on PSD is an article about himself lol

FlakeyFool
06-30-2011, 08:36 PM
Stupid article


The team is on the right path right now. I still don't understand why we don't spend while we build our farm, Boston and New York seem to have great farms + spend a crap amount.

Nica
07-01-2011, 08:13 AM
" if you build it he will come". There you go - a movie quote to inspire the masses.

AA is taking the correct approach instead of the helter skelter approach of Pinocchio. Foolishly throwing money around to try to justify your tenure is nothing but band-aids and treading water. Build from the minor leagues and then augment your team with some FA signings. Think of the dynasty that the Marlins or Tampa Bay could have had if they had a deep pockets owner who was willing to spend at the critical time.

Everybody can grouse all they want about a hard cap but it ain't never gonna happen. The Yankee really personify the whole idea of capitalism and freedom of choice. To handicap a storied franchise like the Yankees would draw them down into the masses and that simply can't happen to America's past-time. Let the other professional sports leagues have their caps and make them more level playing fields( til clever teams like the Heat figure out how to circumvent it ie. endorsement money) but leave base ball alone. It appears that the powers that be recognize this and have thrown the masses a " bone" with the additional wild card spot. And as a realistic baseball fan - this is enough for me.

town123
07-01-2011, 09:23 AM
Chris Jones? ..... whatever.