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ravistarr
06-29-2011, 07:37 PM
Figured there should be one thread where we can consolidate articles/opinions.

This article lays out all of the issues pretty well

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=labor-110629



As we watch the sandglass of time expire in the existing collective bargaining agreement between the NBA and the National Basketball Players Association, there does not appear to be much hope of a resolution prior to midnight ET Friday. After negotiations between the two sides last week produced only modest concessions, the NBPA is awaiting word on whether the NBA will meet with it one more time prior to the agreement expiring.

Assuming no agreement, we await the possibility/probability that the NBA labor dispute will take the turn the NFL did: a lockout by the owners and an antitrust suit filed by the decertified players. To be clear, the NBA need not lock out the players upon expiration of the CBA on Friday and the NBPA need not decertify and file an antitrust lawsuit, although each has proved to be an effective tool in the labor law arsenal afforded the leagues and players.

Before getting to the issues at hand, let's look at what has gone on outside the negotiations:

NLRB filing
On May 24, the NBPA filed an unfair labor practice complaint with the National Labor Relations Board as an opening salvo from the union, accusing the NBA of "surface bargaining": going through the motions of negotiating while planning on locking out the players regardless.

Interestingly, prior to the NFL lockout/decertification, it was the owners, not the union, who filed an unfair labor practice complaint, accusing the NFL Players Association of going through the motions of negotiation prior to their plan to decertify and file an antitrust lawsuit. On a track a few months behind the NFL, the NBA is dealing with the same arguments by different parties in a similar dispute.

Eyes on the 8th Circuit
The NBA and NBPA are obviously watching the legal and judicial proceedings of Brady v. NFL with great interest. So far, the 8th Circuit has ruled that the NFL lockout may remain in effect through the appeals process, and we are waiting for a ruling whether it would remain in place indefinitely. My sense is the 8th Circuit will continue to rule for the owners -- giving NBA owners a valuable precedent should they lock out -- but the court is standing down on its decision, as there is some momentum in negotiations between the NFL owners and players.

Although the NBPA could file in a different circuit than the 8th Circuit and have a much different result, a win for NFL owners would resonate with NBA owners.

NFL vs. NBA situations
In both disputes, the players are "playing goalie," trying to protect what they already had in their latest agreements and fighting off clawbacks from the owners. Both ownerships question the "bad deals" they made with the players several years ago, which is where these disputes are similar.

However, there are differences. The NFL has not said its teams are losing money, but that its teams are not as profitable as they once were. The NBA is saying its teams are losing money -- the league claims it is 22 of the 30 teams; the players claim that number to be less than 10 -- and has subsidized one of its franchises, the Hornets. And although the NFL salary cap is not a true "hard cap," as proration of signing bonuses creates extra cap room, the NBA salary cap is replete with "exceptions" that make it a very soft cap -- a yarmulke, if you will -- that the league is desperately trying to "harden."

There also are some differences in leadership. In football, Roger Goodell and DeMaurice Smith are negotiating their first CBA. David Stern and Billy Hunter have history and have been through this before. That doesn't necessarily make it easier, but there is a different dynamic.

Finally, although the NFLPA took the decertification route -- dissolving as a union to pursue an antitrust lawsuit (Brady v. NFL) as individual litigants -- it is unclear whether the NBPA will go that route, even though outside counsel Jeffrey Kessler is guiding both unions.

With that, here are summaries of the recent proposals and issues for each side in this negotiation that appears to be going nowhere.

Owners' proposal:
• "Flex cap" of $62 million: This would raise the cap from the current $58 million, thus allowing teams to exceed the cap subject to certain (undefined) restrictions. The exact levels of the salary floor and ceiling, as well as which exceptions would be part of the new system, have not been detailed. However, the basic idea is that the flex cap is similar to the current system but incorporates a firm upper limit (and thereby eliminates the luxury tax).

• $2 billion-a-year guarantee: Owners are proposing to guarantee players $2 billion a year in salary and benefits for the duration of a proposed 10-year CBA. This represents a modest decline from the current $2.17 billion but allows owners to capture most of the gains from a growth in income expected over the course of the next 10 years, especially when new television rights deals are signed in the next five years. This would net the players a declining share of basketball-related income (BRI), estimated (by the players) to go from the current level of 57 percent to about 40 percent in 10 years.

• Keep escrow money: Owners want to keep 8 percent of 2010-11 salaries that has been escrowed in case the players' BRI share went over the 57 percent limit. Players view this as unreasonable, since they consider it money already earned.

• Reduced contract length: Owners are proposing a maximum contract length of three years for players signing with new teams (reduced from five today) and four years for players remaining with their current teams (down from six today). This might be more palatable to the players now that the owners have backed off their demand for unguaranteed deals; the deals will be less crippling with fewer years.

• Removal of sign-and-trades: This is another measure aimed at keeping players on their current teams. Presently, players can take advantage of "Bird rights" by signing with their current team and leveraging a trade, allowing them to receive the six-year deal with 10.5 percent increase from their current team.

Furthermore, the team losing the player usually receives some sort of compensation. For example, both Toronto and Cleveland received late first-round picks and large trade exceptions from Miami for Chris Bosh and LeBron James, respectively. And New York received three players, a second-round pick and a trade exception from Golden State in David Lee's sign-and-trade. With a hard cap, there is no use for this.

• Reducing rookie contracts: This is a lower priority for the owners and certainly not the issue that it has become in the NFL. Owners will seek lower rookie contracts, most notably for first-round picks, but probably not push this too hard.

• The expensing of franchise acquisition costs in teams' operating budgets: The dispute over the fundamental state of the league is principally over how much of the league's claimed $380 million loss is a result of acquisition costs, debt service, etc.

• Length of the agreement: The owners want a 10-year deal, while the players want only five -- which would coincide with the league's new TV deals.

Players' proposal:
• $500 million pay cut: Players are proposing a reduction of their income by $100 million a year for the next five years. They have made this concession to reduce the percentage of BRI that is guaranteed to them. However, they do not want change to the fundamental features of the current system: a soft cap, long contracts and fully guaranteed deals.

• Enhanced revenue sharing: The players believe the owners' concerns about competitive balance can be addressed by reforming the revenue-sharing system. This is the age-old issue in labor disputes: Players believe that looking within, not at themselves, can solve a lot of the owners' issues.

Currently, big-market teams (such as the Knicks, Lakers, etc.) keep all the revenue from their ticket sales and local broadcast deals. The gap between the big and small markets is so large that players believe it undermines the stability of the league and the competitiveness of many of the teams.

• Enhance sign-trade flexibility: Currently, teams over the cap can trade players only when their salaries are within 125 percent and $100,000 of each other. Players want this amended to a range of 250 percent to make player movement easier. To ease this transition, the players are proposing a change to base-year compensation (BYC), a designation awarded to players who receive large raises after their rookie deals. BYC players' value in trades is halved, which makes trading them more difficult. As with the 125 percent rule, players are pushing to eliminate this rule because it impedes trades.

• Reduce the age limit to 18: Players want to revert back to the pre-2005 rules, where players only had to be 18 years old to declare for the draft. As of now, they must be 19 years old and one year removed from high school graduation.

• Restructure restricted free agency (RFA): Teams currently have one week to decide whether to match RFA offer sheets. Players believe this length paralyzes bidders during a frenzied free-agency period and provides disincentives to pursuing RFAs.

• Change/create exceptions: Players will not support a hard cap, but they are willing to make changes to various exceptions. They will shorten the length of the mid-level exception (MLE), the source of many misguided deals, from five years to four, in exchange for adding a second MLE for each team.

• Deduct arena/construction expenses from BRI pool: This is another concession by the players, who agree that they should take some part in the expenses of building and maintaining state-of-the-art arenas. This is also a key issue in the NFL labor negotiations.

• Provide a neutral arbitrator for all on-court discipline matters: Currently, players can appeal to a neutral arbitrator only when they have received suspensions longer than 12 games.

Notable topics not being discussed by either side: length of season/training camp/playoffs; retired player benefits; draft order; playing rules.

Hawkeye15
06-29-2011, 07:40 PM
I think this is a good idea. I am going to sticky it, and any threads started discussing the CBA, and lockout, will be merged.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-29-2011, 07:42 PM
Nice idea.

mzgrizz
06-29-2011, 07:44 PM
Is the dead line( intentional separation) tomorrow?

Hawkeye15
06-29-2011, 07:50 PM
Is the dead line( intentional separation) tomorrow?

tonight at midnight. If no deal is in place, the owners can force a lockout at that time.

210Don
06-29-2011, 07:52 PM
great idea

ravistarr
06-29-2011, 09:36 PM
I don't know about everyone else, but I'm pretty pessimistic. Though the fact that there has been some compromise already (by the owners - backing off of the guaranteed contracts issue, reportedly), is hopeful.

airronijordan
06-29-2011, 10:07 PM
Wojo wrote an article today saying that a player told him that the owners are scared to talk in front of superstars

If this is the case, why aren't more superstars in the meetings?

And I do believe this, I find it hard to imagine the owners downgrading the players like this if Kobe was in the room.

I expect a full year lockout, where most superstars will end up playing overseas and all the average players will be unemployed.....I seriously hope thats not the case!

thenetslegend
06-29-2011, 10:14 PM
a full year lockout means harrison barnes in nj

Tom Stone
06-30-2011, 12:01 PM
Looks like the owners have offered a Little more to the players a... 50-50 BRI, among other things.....but still want an upper limit you can't exceed.....a hard cap, and players are still mad............The thing is about a hard cap is... Hard Cap means "Fair".....it means a chance for every team to win.....It means you won't have as many great players leaving small markets just because they feel the only way you can win is to join a super team, super team meaning, a team that spends more.... thus increasing chances of winning....and I personally don't blame team , it's they way it is in the soft cap system.......The Hard Cap would be so good for the sport people don't even realize it....And the players still are the highest payed union in the world, and will still make in one year more than most people can save your whole life.

sixer04fan
06-30-2011, 01:53 PM
If there is a full season long lockout for the NBA, and we miss the entire 2011-2012 season, how would that affect the draft for next year?

Would the NBA use the same draft order as this year? Would there be some kind of new lottery? It seems kind of unfair to use the same draft order, but I don't know if there is a more logical option.

sixer04fan
06-30-2011, 02:01 PM
My bad, didn't see the official lockout sticky thread. You can merge this if you'd like but I'd still like some input if anyone knows the deal.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-30-2011, 02:27 PM
How many times has this thread been made lol?

Slimsim
06-30-2011, 02:45 PM
How does this effect teams trying to keep their stars in NO, Orlando and Nj. If there is a lockout how can these teams show there players that they are on the right track to winning or competing for a title.

rurichie
06-30-2011, 02:48 PM
a full year lockout means harrison barnes in nj

Actually I think it would be BK!

KnicksR4Real
06-30-2011, 03:01 PM
this question comes up every flippin day

sixer04fan
06-30-2011, 03:22 PM
so no one knows?

cardinals1226
06-30-2011, 03:26 PM
so no one knows?

David Sterns will cut 30 straws. Then all the teams draw a straw. The shortest straw gets the first pick, the second shortest the second pick, and so on.

Cano4prez
06-30-2011, 03:27 PM
And so it begins

Crackadalic
06-30-2011, 03:28 PM
NEW YORK -- Union chief Billy Hunter says owners are locking out players after failing to reach a new collective bargaining agreement, potentially putting the 2011-12 season in jeopardy.

Despite a three-hour meeting Thursday, the sides could not close the enormous gap that remained in their positions. The CBA was due to expire at midnight.

All league business is officially on hold, starting with the free agency period that would have opened Friday, and games eventually could be lost, too. The last lockout reduced the 1998-99 season to just a 50-game schedule, the only time the NBA missed games for a work stoppage.

Union executive committee member Matt Bonner says "we tried to avoid the lockout; unfortunately we couldn't reach a deal."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6723645

tbone2171
06-30-2011, 03:30 PM
It would be sweet if there was another 50 game season..Maybe the T-wolves could sneak into the playoffs at 25-25

Crackadalic
06-30-2011, 03:30 PM
I posted a article from ESPN in the lockout thread already about it. There locking out the players starting tonight. Very sad

Wade>You
06-30-2011, 03:32 PM
Let's hope this is the first step in removing David Stern as commissioner and the end of his fairy-tale league.

JordansBulls
06-30-2011, 03:33 PM
Hope you guys have a bunch of games in the past to watch, because we may not see basketball for the NBA till February or the following year in October.

Crackadalic
06-30-2011, 03:35 PM
No football and basketball? FML

JerseysFinest
06-30-2011, 03:37 PM
Very, very unfortunate it had to reach this point. Let's all pray that there is an agreement made sooner rather than later.

Ebbs
06-30-2011, 03:37 PM
:cry:

DoMeFavors
06-30-2011, 03:38 PM
NBA season will start on time, mark my words.

SA5195
06-30-2011, 03:39 PM
:sigh:

Tony_Starks
06-30-2011, 03:40 PM
well, so much for that season.

Oh well, a year off for Kobe and Bynums knees!

tyfreaks brotha
06-30-2011, 03:45 PM
Son of a *****

Shmontaine
06-30-2011, 03:45 PM
do the players still get their paychecks??? or are they cutoff completely... i thought players can choose to be paid their contracts in 6 months (when the league is active) or have it spread out across 12 months..

Shmontaine
06-30-2011, 03:45 PM
that would suck if they were to get paid tomorrow...

Slimsim
06-30-2011, 03:46 PM
Dam Good bye basketball

Slimsim
06-30-2011, 03:47 PM
do the players still get their paychecks??? or are they cutoff completely... i thought players can choose to be paid their contracts in 6 months (when the league is active) or have it spread out across 12 months..

i think they are cutoff just like in the NFL. so we are going to start hearing rumors on basketball players doing rapping boxing or even golfing to make some extra cash

SNYmets86
06-30-2011, 03:47 PM
WNBA here i come lol

Jetsguy
06-30-2011, 03:47 PM
good god no NFL, no NBA...some greedy dudes out there on both sides :pity:

DarKRaidEr3
06-30-2011, 03:48 PM
Probably like the NHL did it. It was the combined records of the past 5 years or something like that.

allSUAVE
06-30-2011, 03:48 PM
DAMN ..I Need Gears Of War 3 to come out now

Crackadalic
06-30-2011, 03:48 PM
WNBA here i come lol

:cry:

NYKalltheway
06-30-2011, 03:50 PM
now what?

Rivera
06-30-2011, 03:51 PM
im not gonna expect basketball until janurary 2012

nimazahir
06-30-2011, 03:53 PM
Wtf, no basketball or football. **** baseball and hockey. And to top it off there are no new video games coming out until many months.

DoMeFavors
06-30-2011, 03:55 PM
no nba 2k12?

Maybe NBA 2k11 will be NBA12 with updates, they can just change up all the roster changes.

smith&wesson
06-30-2011, 03:57 PM
NBA season will start on time, mark my words.

i agree they have until late october to sort things out. thats more then enough time.

bledrules
06-30-2011, 03:59 PM
The NBA has turned into a major joke,this is def great news!

sixer04fan
06-30-2011, 03:59 PM
Probably like the NHL did it. It was the combined records of the past 5 years or something like that.

gotcha.. Yeah i could see something like that. A friend of mine is convinced that they will just redo the lottery while the playoff teams will keep the same positions... Doesn't seem fair, but who knows.

Crackadalic
06-30-2011, 04:01 PM
Stern is live on NBATV and on nba.com about the lockout

Sadds The Gr8
06-30-2011, 04:01 PM
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

tyfreaks brotha
06-30-2011, 04:01 PM
Wtf, no basketball or football. **** baseball and hockey. And to top it off there are no new video games coming out until many months.

/thread

Crackadalic
06-30-2011, 04:01 PM
Stern is on NBATV and nba.com talking about the lockout

Tony_Starks
06-30-2011, 04:03 PM
do the players still get their paychecks??? or are they cutoff completely... i thought players can choose to be paid their contracts in 6 months (when the league is active) or have it spread out across 12 months..


They've already been paid for last season. These paychecks won't officially stop until November.

Just bully tactics.....

Rivera
06-30-2011, 04:06 PM
Now that NBA is in a lockout maybe this will be good for lebron he can keep an eye on his mom and girl now


im sorry i couldnt resist i had to be the first...im truly sorry i couldnt help myself :laugh2:

Snowman23
06-30-2011, 04:08 PM
DAMN ..I Need Gears Of War 3 to come out now

OMG this. September 20th

Punk
06-30-2011, 04:08 PM
According to Hunter, they haven't discussed alot of things over these weeks. The lockout could make the negotiations alot better.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
06-30-2011, 04:09 PM
:(

HouRealCoach
06-30-2011, 04:09 PM
WWE is going to have a ball this year lol

ackar
06-30-2011, 04:12 PM
Did they not learn anything from the NFL? I guess not idiots!

gocubs2118
06-30-2011, 04:16 PM
Lol at the people who think the season starts on time. This lockout is going to last for a LONG time.

tyfreaks brotha
06-30-2011, 04:16 PM
****ing gay as hell

LTBaByyy
06-30-2011, 04:17 PM
Good thing we won the championship

mttwlsn16
06-30-2011, 04:20 PM
Now that NBA is in a lockout maybe this will be good for lebron he can keep an eye on his mom and girl now


im sorry i couldnt resist i had to be the first...im truly sorry i couldnt help myself :laugh2:

:laugh:

CostanzaNumba0
06-30-2011, 04:20 PM
not surprised but sad news, this lockout is more understandable than the nfl's tho

Atownballa5
06-30-2011, 04:22 PM
this is sad.... no nba....

nyrangersfan128
06-30-2011, 04:27 PM
All of you basketball fans should start watching hockey! :P

LTBaByyy
06-30-2011, 04:32 PM
No NFL, No NBA


Baseball, Hockey, and Nascar.... NOOOOOOOOoOoOOOOOOOOOoOoO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NBA_Starter
06-30-2011, 04:33 PM
So long NBA, see you in February (maybe)

tyfreaks brotha
06-30-2011, 04:36 PM
All of you basketball fans should start watching hockey! :P
:cry::cry::cry: my lyfe sucks :cry::cry::cry: no basketball :cry::cry::cry::cry:

No NFL, No NBA


Baseball, Hockey, and Nascar.... NOOOOOOOOoOoOOOOOOOOOoOoO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

So long NBA, see you in February (maybe)

:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry: :mad::mad:

Shmontaine
06-30-2011, 04:42 PM
They've already been paid for last season. These paychecks won't officially stop until November.

Just bully tactics.....

i guess that's why season ticket holders are having to pay still... pretty lame...

i think i read that kobe gets 90% of his contract on the first day of the season... sucks for him... well, not really.

nyrangersfan128
06-30-2011, 04:42 PM
:cry::cry::cry: my lyfe sucks :cry::cry::cry: no basketball :cry::cry::cry::cry:

:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:


:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry: :mad::mad:

Have you ever watched at game of hockey in your life? LOL Please watch a game before freaking out.

JWO35
06-30-2011, 04:43 PM
As long as The NFL gets going on time, I'm cool....year-by-year I like basketball(mostly the NBA) a little less.

tyfreaks brotha
06-30-2011, 04:44 PM
Yeah i've watched Hockey..... I just really cant get into it...... Oh btw i only like the hightlights cuz the fights :P

Tony_Starks
06-30-2011, 04:45 PM
Hockey? Bunch of white guys with sticks?

Nah, can't do that one!

thawv
06-30-2011, 04:46 PM
If these guys don't get back to work soon, quite a few of these hoodlums will end up behind bars.

Crackadalic
06-30-2011, 04:46 PM
You give me $5 million to play basketball for 10 years I'm set. Its sad the players are complaining about not making $20+ mil a year and that the owners doesnt know how to spend money.

DMasta718
06-30-2011, 04:48 PM
no nba 2k12?

2K12 is still happening.

I don't think I can handle no basketball or football. There's baseball but i need more.


Well the new York libertys are playing tonight. Go Liberty! :cry:

nyrangersfan128
06-30-2011, 04:50 PM
Hockey? Bunch of white guys with sticks?

Nah, can't do that one!

Buch of what guys with sticks? hahahaha Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2XhQI3K37c

Or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xpbTcygP1Y&feature=related

ironkobe
06-30-2011, 04:52 PM
guess i have to get into the wnba

Ray_R
06-30-2011, 04:54 PM
***********************************

Ray_R
06-30-2011, 04:56 PM
Guess its Back to watching Porno

Punk
06-30-2011, 04:57 PM
You give me $5 million to play basketball for 10 years I'm set. Its sad the players are complaining about not making $20+ mil a year and that the owners doesnt know how to spend money.

It's more about logic and principle than money it self. Why the hell are owners wanting to give player a cut when they sign them to the contracts?

Who the hell would sign Joe Johnson to 120 million then ask him to take a paycut? It makes no sense.

Most of these players get traded or pay for their families (cousins, sisters, brothers, kids) homes and other expenses. Plus if they get traded, your paying for hotel fees, house and mortgage fees, taxes, etc.

The good news is Dan Gilbert, Mark Cuban, James Dolan, Micky Arison are a few owners who want an NBA season and are siding with the players and want to get a fare deal done.

The owners with losing teams are trying to draft this out for their own selfish purposes.

Punk
06-30-2011, 04:59 PM
You guys could watch Baseball (summer), Football (winter), Euroleague basketball (October), D-League basketball (November), College basketball.

Tony_Starks
06-30-2011, 05:04 PM
I just realized even if they do play a short season I don't want my Lakers winning. That little * next to the championship season will only resurrect the Kobe haters (who have currently shifted to Lebron btw).


Screw it if there is a short season I say New York vs Clippers, with Clipps in 7! Clippers get their first and last championship, and Knicks get the irony of losing the Finals of 2 lockout seasons.....:clap:

Crackadalic
06-30-2011, 05:04 PM
It's more about logic and principle than money it self. Why the hell are owners wanting to give player a cut when they sign them to the contracts?

Who the hell would sign Joe Johnson to 120 million then ask him to take a paycut? It makes no sense.

Most of these players get traded or pay for their families (cousins, sisters, brothers, kids) homes and other expenses. Plus if they get traded, your paying for hotel fees, house and mortgage fees, taxes, etc.

The good news is Dan Gilbert, Mark Cuban, James Dolan, Micky Arison are a few owners who want an NBA season and are siding with the players and want to get a fare deal done.

The owners with losing teams are trying to draft this out for their own selfish purposes.

I kinda blame the GM's more then the owners because there just writing the checks

Its just sad that they overpay guys that have no business making that much money. I know you might lose the guy but come on. JJ is making 120+ for what 6 years and he pretty much suck this year

Crackadalic
06-30-2011, 05:06 PM
I just realized even if they do play a short season I don't want my Lakers winning. That little * next to the championship season will only resurrect the Kobe haters (who have currently shifted to Lebron btw).


Screw it if there is a short season I say New York vs Clippers, with Clipps in 7! Clippers get their first and last championship, and Knicks get the irony of losing the Finals of 2 lockout seasons.....:clap:

I will be piss off if that happen.

Dade County
06-30-2011, 05:06 PM
Phase 1 complete, onto phase 2 :cool:

Southsideheat
06-30-2011, 05:08 PM
How much of the rhetoric that its going to be a "long and brutal lockout" has to do with the two sides trying to show resolve to the other side through media outlets than them really knowing it will be long?

metsfanssince05
06-30-2011, 05:11 PM
This is truley sad, the first season I watch the NBA and my Knicks play it gets locked out. I hope we get atleast 40 games in.. Would be better then nothing. FML!

But guys hate to brake it to you, hockey is a great sport, BIG hits are very likely in games, fights, the pace of the game is great, the NHL is going to be getting alot more viewers this year. Telling you guys, watch some clips of the NHL on youtube you guys will enjoy it. Actually NHL is my favorite sport to watch, mainly because my brother played and my parents. Seriously the NHL is a really good league, sure some games can get boring some times I fall asleep but same thing goes with the NBA.

NYKalltheway
06-30-2011, 05:17 PM
No
Basketball for
A while

dodie53
06-30-2011, 05:18 PM
:(

KnicksR4Real
06-30-2011, 05:18 PM
i will miss basketball

metsfanssince05
06-30-2011, 05:19 PM
Hockey? Bunch of white guys with sticks?

Nah, can't do that one!Basketball? Bunch of black guys fall or get a little twisted ankle and leave the game. Hockey? Bunch white guys gets smashed by a hit or a puck and contuines the game. Players play through broken fingers, hands, depending on how it is, broken feet. I remeber Dwayne Wade hurt his arm or something, and left the game on a wheel chair. I LOVE the NBA but NBA players are *****es. I'd love to see them play atleast on game on skates. Plus the pace of the game is ridicoulas.

I know there was no point of that but it shows how manly the NHL compared to the NBA

Captain Planet
06-30-2011, 05:21 PM
David Stern must resign, Clay Bennett should stfu and Seattle Gets our Sonics back!

Punk
06-30-2011, 05:23 PM
I kinda blame the GM's more then the owners because there just writing the checks

Its just sad that they overpay guys that have no business making that much money. I know you might lose the guy but come on. JJ is making 120+ for what 6 years and he pretty much suck this year

More owners need to be like Cuban and oversee what goes on.

Punk
06-30-2011, 05:25 PM
When you think about it, It's not that bad....5 months is the normal wait for the NBA off-season. The lockout would stretch it to 8 months.

DoJoTheSlasher
06-30-2011, 05:26 PM
These players and owners did it to themselves and I'm not gonna feel sorry that they won't get their 6 million dollar paycheck tomorrow.

But **** this really sucks...

Cromedome
06-30-2011, 05:31 PM
NBA season will start on time, mark my words.

Kinda like how you told us all that Melo would end up in NJ? Lmao!

Lakerhead4ever
06-30-2011, 05:37 PM
Basketball? Bunch of black guys fall or get a little twisted ankle and leave the game. Hockey? Bunch white guys gets smashed by a hit or a puck and contuines the game. Players play through broken fingers, hands, depending on how it is, broken feet. I remeber Dwayne Wade hurt his arm or something, and left the game on a wheel chair. I LOVE the NBA but NBA players are *****es. I'd love to see them play atleast on game on skates. Plus the pace of the game is ridicoulas.

I know there was no point of that but it shows how manly the NHL compared to the NBA

i remember that, he dislocated his shoulder and couldnt walk lol. plus he was crying lmao

TRF929
06-30-2011, 05:38 PM
IMO, the NBA can not survive a lockout as well as the NFL can. Some NBA teams won't be able to survive a lockout, as they weren't making much money when there was play.

Good luck to the NBA, players will be able to survive a lockout playing ball else where unlike NFL. Players will have the advantage in this lockout, owners be ready for a long fight.

I don't see a season next year

Tony_Starks
06-30-2011, 05:42 PM
Basketball? Bunch of black guys fall or get a little twisted ankle and leave the game. Hockey? Bunch white guys gets smashed by a hit or a puck and contuines the game. Players play through broken fingers, hands, depending on how it is, broken feet. I remeber Dwayne Wade hurt his arm or something, and left the game on a wheel chair. I LOVE the NBA but NBA players are *****es. I'd love to see them play atleast on game on skates. Plus the pace of the game is ridicoulas.

I know there was no point of that but it shows how manly the NHL compared to the NBA


Thats only because the League made the game more finesse by its rules. If you would've watched during the golden 90's the game was a beautiful thing. Ask you're fellow Knick fans.....

Crackadalic
06-30-2011, 05:45 PM
It took what 4-5 years for the nba to get back on its feet after the lockout. Hopefully something gets done because the nba can't survive especially during these economic times

metsfanssince05
06-30-2011, 05:47 PM
Thats only because the League made the game more finesse by its rules. If you would've watched during the golden 90's the game was a beautiful thing. Ask you're fellow Knick fans.....I would of loved to watch it in the 90's with all the hits and the Rangers in the 90's to bad I was born in 95 :(

metsfan4ever
06-30-2011, 05:49 PM
If theirs a NBA lockout and NFL lockout im going to dominican republic to watch the Caribbean series until spring tranning starts for baseball. I dont think i could make it threw winter with out nfl or nba

daleja424
06-30-2011, 05:56 PM
I didnt think they would let it get to this point... damn shame.

This will hurt the league... bad business for both sides.

MVP1
06-30-2011, 05:56 PM
Is their a list of teams who are making a profit?

unwantedplayer
06-30-2011, 05:56 PM
i remember that, he dislocated his shoulder and couldnt walk lol. plus he was crying lmao

Have you ever dislocated your shoulder?

Ironman5219
06-30-2011, 05:58 PM
Greed sucks, and we the fans suffer for it. This will go on and on until it starts effecting the pocket books of the owners and players, then they will put the petty BS asside and work something out, until then RIP NBA.

Da Knicks
06-30-2011, 06:04 PM
NBA season will start on time, mark my words.

According to your predictions huh, there goes the season. You are like 0 for 24 on predictions...:facepalm:

Lo Porto
06-30-2011, 06:04 PM
Fans of the old teams have to hate this. If we lose a year, that's one less chance for Kobe, Duncan, Dirk, and others to add to their collection. I wonder if owner MJ will work to make the lockout a year so Kobe (and LBJ over the long term for that matter) can't catch his 6 titles?

daboywonder2002
06-30-2011, 06:06 PM
why not just guarantee the first 3 years of these max or mid level exception deals. After that, make it a team option. so instead of guaranteeing a full 6 year 90 mill deal. just guarantee the first 2-3 years. then make it a team option

Punk
06-30-2011, 06:07 PM
I didnt think they would let it get to this point... damn shame.

This will hurt the league... bad business for both sides.

Which is why it will get done by December/January.

Southsideheat
06-30-2011, 06:09 PM
Is their a list of teams who are making a profit?

If i had to guess

Lakers
Bulls
Knicks
Mavs
Heat
Magic
Celtics
Rockets

John Walls Era
06-30-2011, 06:10 PM
As long as NFL is on, I'm good. I'm on the side of the owners though, NBA players are making about 6 million on avg. which is insane compared to the NFL. Some cities just don't have the market to support some teams, the cost of players definitely doesn't help them. However I think the owners are low balling the players association. Hope they find a middle ground soon.


Is their a list of teams who are making a profit?

You won't find an accurate one. Players association is saying only 8 teams don't make a profit, while the NBA is claiming 20 teams don't make a profit.

bringinwood
06-30-2011, 06:14 PM
If there is only one team in the red, the owners should re-negotiate the CBA...

There should never be a team that is losing money with the amount of revenue there is to go around...

That being said, the players should always go after every dime they can...

Tough dilemma for the NBA...

Punk
06-30-2011, 06:19 PM
The only teams that are obviously shown to not be making a profit are the Hornets and Bucks. Sacramento as well.


But the damaging thing is ALOT of Bucks fans are excited over S-Jax and feel they can compete which means more tickets being bought. Sacarmento is selling out over Jimmer-mania, Minnesota is going to be sold out with Rubio, D-Will and Love, Cleveland is going to be selling well with Irving and Thompson, LA will be sold out every night with the Lakers and Clippers. Golden State will be sold out.

10 of the small market teams are going to be generating more ticket sales than last year. Which is why this whole lockout will eventually be a damaging thing.

Southsideheat
06-30-2011, 06:22 PM
The only teams that are obviously shown to not be making a profit are the Hornets and Bucks. Sacramento as well.


But the damaging thing is ALOT of Bucks fans are excited over S-Jax and feel they can compete which means more tickets being bought. Sacarmento is selling out over Jimmer-mania, Minnesota is going to be sold out with Rubio, D-Will and Love, Cleveland is going to be selling well with Irving and Thompson, LA will be sold out every night with the Lakers and Clippers. Golden State will be sold out.

10 of the small market teams are going to be generating more ticket sales than last year. Which is why this whole lockout will eventually be a damaging thing.

tickets sale revenue is no where close to tv revenue.

Crackadalic
06-30-2011, 06:33 PM
tickets sale revenue is no where close to tv revenue.

The nba should do what the nfl does in terms of tv revenue sharing. At least the smaller market teams wouldnt lose so much money

sjoerdje
06-30-2011, 06:34 PM
"Breaking news"
yeah right

Jsoul101
06-30-2011, 06:36 PM
Heres an Idea!
Mixed Basketball Association (MBA) should be created
where a team will be consist of both male and female basketball players
evenly distributed
10min/quarter
48game season

GoPacers33
06-30-2011, 06:48 PM
:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

DMasta718
06-30-2011, 06:48 PM
If i had to guess

Lakers
Bulls
Knicks
Mavs
Heat
Magic
Celtics
Rockets

Can also add the Clippers as well.

Lakerhead4ever
06-30-2011, 06:58 PM
Have you ever dislocated your shoulder?

honestly yes. my right shoulder about 3 yrs ago. i was playing basketball and slipped and i went one way, my arm went the other. i still haven't got is completely fixed.

but even if i didn't dislocate my shoulder it was still funny to see him get wheeled out, and crying.

\he makes fun of ppl when their sick, why cant i?

Lo Porto
06-30-2011, 06:58 PM
The current system is flawed. I just hope that it gets fixed so that there is true parody in the league. And it sucks how so many trades revolve around a team just trying to dump a player. Trading has become so much about $ instead of actual strategy.

IversonIsKrazy
06-30-2011, 07:03 PM
How is next year's draft going 2 work then? Imagine if CLE got another 1st pick, could u imagine? Heat don't win 2 years str8, while Cleveland begin their dynasty! Wut a story that wud turn out 2 b !

Darrell Russell
06-30-2011, 07:15 PM
Once again , the owners' greed is showing.

unwantedplayer
06-30-2011, 07:17 PM
honestly yes. my right shoulder about 3 yrs ago. i was playing basketball and slipped and i went one way, my arm went the other. i still haven't got is completely fixed.

but even if i didn't dislocate my shoulder it was still funny to see him get wheeled out, and crying.

\he makes fun of ppl when their sick, why cant i?

Ehhh.....

Making fun of people when they are sick (in this case, it was a sinus infection....) and when they are hurt/get hurt are different imo. Sinus infections aren't even serious and pass in a few days and are not nearly as painful as shoulder injuries. ****, I've sprained both of my shoulders and that hurt like hell, even worse than ankle sprains imo.

I still don't see how its funny to see someone get injured. Alright, maybe if you REALLY hated the man, I guess I can see why, but I'm pretty sure D-Wade has never done anything to you personally that resulted in you hating him.

Its w/e tho

bmd1101
06-30-2011, 07:19 PM
All this lockout is going to do is push the ratings back down to pitiful levels, right when the NBA was gaining steam this **** just had to happen. I agree the current system needs tweaking to make it a bit more profitable and possibly a little more competitive in smaller markets, but they can't let this eat into training camps, preseason, FA ect.

championships
06-30-2011, 07:23 PM
Great two major sports now in a lock out.

Greedy bastards!! :mad:

stlbest5in2013
06-30-2011, 07:36 PM
players or owners?

im on the players side, it is not their fault that stupid owners cut stupid checks for awful players. nobody forced them to sign those checks,but hey the players should suffer for one's own mistake.

its kind of like saying you robbed a bank, then turn around and call the police and saying its someone else that robbed the bank.

dnewguy
06-30-2011, 07:39 PM
ummmmm, I guess you meant "side" instead of "decide". I am with the players, they gave up a lot already. You cant blame them for bad management on the part of some owners. If you cant run a business, dont buy a NBA team.

papipapsmanny
06-30-2011, 07:39 PM
here is my thing.

The owners take such a big risk, some lose their ***** and have to sell the team. God forbid they make any money from the biggest financial risk of their lives.

Where basketball players get free education (well supposedly they learn something), then get mad if they aren't making top dollars making a ****ing game.

yea there the ones working, buts that is how every ****ing business in america works. This is like target employees (clerks) being upset that the CEO is making a lot more money than them.

lets say it together..... owners of companies, and employees. Players (NFL, NBA, w/e), you are employees, nothing better, you don't have to play basketball

Lakerhead4ever
06-30-2011, 07:47 PM
Ehhh.....

Making fun of people when they are sick (in this case, it was a sinus infection....) and when they are hurt/get hurt are different imo. Sinus infections aren't even serious and pass in a few days and are not nearly as painful as shoulder injuries. ****, I've sprained both of my shoulders and that hurt like hell, even worse than ankle sprains imo.

I still don't see how its funny to see someone get injured. Alright, maybe if you REALLY hated the man, I guess I can see why, but I'm pretty sure D-Wade has never done anything to you personally that resulted in you hating him.

Its w/e tho

no one is hating him. it was funny let it go. live a little. why would i hate the guy? he hasnt done nothing special to be hated on.

if one of my friends dislocated his shoulder and cried i will rush him to a medic quick, and when he is healed we will all sit around and laugh at him because he cried..its normal. some of yall need a sense of humor.

btw...i would expect better from a fellow elzhi fan

Darrell Russell
06-30-2011, 07:52 PM
here is my thing.

The owners take such a big risk, some lose their ***** and have to sell the team. God forbid they make any money from the biggest financial risk of their lives.


If they are losing so much money, they can sell their teams. Im sure the billionaires aren't going broke from running an nba franchise.

Where basketball players get free education (well supposedly they learn something), then get mad if they aren't making top dollars making a ****ing game.

Basketball players get education while in the nba? Where does this even factor into the nba labor discussions? jesus christ. The players aren't mad they aren't making top dollar, they don't want their money taken away from them because of poor management, which is 100% understandable.


yea there the ones working, buts that is how every ****ing business in america works. This is like target employees (clerks) being upset that the CEO is making a lot more money than them.


How would people react if the ceo of target's poor management led to them trying to lower the salaries of all of their employees by 30%, would people agree with it and say it's okay?



lets say it together..... owners of companies, and employees. Players (NFL, NBA, w/e), you are employees, nothing better, you don't have to play basketball


Dumbest **** ive read in a while




Fascism

Bishnoff
06-30-2011, 07:58 PM
Owners. If the majority of teams can’t turn a profit then the NBA will cease to exist.

FlashMacker
06-30-2011, 08:07 PM
it would be sweet if there was another 50 game season..maybe the t-wolves could sneak into the playoffs at 25-25


lol

sixer04fan
06-30-2011, 08:08 PM
I'm more with the owners than the players. You can blame the owners for bad investments in players all you want, but there are a lot of well managed franchises in small markets that find it impossible to turn a profit.

I was watching sports center today, and the NBA Finance expert was on, he used to be a high level executive for Portland... He said back when he was with the team, they always stayed below the salary cap, won 50+ games, sold out every game, and had great TV ratings, and they were still losing money every year. The way the system of the NBA is right now, it's literally impossible for some teams to make a profit even if they do everything right. I think they definitely need to increase revenue sharing, and create a hard cap. They shouldn't reduce player salaries by 30%, but there does need to be some reduction. I hope they'll be able to come to some sort of compromise there, maybe 15-20%.

Darrell Russell
06-30-2011, 08:13 PM
I'm more with the owners than the players. You can blame the owners for bad investments in players all you want, but there are a lot of well managed franchises in small markets that find it impossible to turn a profit.

I was watching sports center today, and the NBA Finance expert was on, he used to be a high level executive for Portland... He said back when he was with the team, they always stayed below the salary cap, won 50+ games, sold out every game, and had great TV ratings, and they were still losing money every year. The way the system of the NBA is right now, it's literally impossible for some teams to make a profit even if they do everything right. I think they definitely need to increase revenue sharing, and create a hard cap. They shouldn't reduce player salaries by 30%, but there does need to be some reduction. I hope they'll be able to come to some sort of compromise there, maybe 15-20%.

If they were losing money, not only is it the owner's fault for purchasing a poor franchise, it is their fault for poor management of funds. None of that has to do with the players, if you are losing money it is solely the owners fault.

MrfadeawayJB
06-30-2011, 08:15 PM
:cry::cry::cry:

Sly Guy
06-30-2011, 08:15 PM
I don't know who's side I'm on yet, it's still millionaires arguing with billionaires over money, so by nature I find the whole disagreement distasteful, but I find the owner's initial position particularly unreasonable.

sixer04fan
06-30-2011, 08:22 PM
If they were losing money, not only is it the owner's fault for purchasing a poor franchise, it is their fault for poor management of funds. None of that has to do with the players, if you are losing money it is solely the owners fault.

I'm not blaming the players at all. Of course the players have nothing to do with the league losing money, it's the league's fault obviously. The players make the league money, I understand that. But the system as it stands now is broken. The way the league is currently structured, it can't make money, with exponentially increasing operating costs and such. They need to shut down the league and refresh. That's just the way it is.

It's much different than the NFL lockout. In the NFL, the players and the owners are fighting over a huge sum of money, but both sides are making a great profit. In the NBA, there is no huge sum of money that the owners a fighting to keep. It's less "owners vs. players" as the NFL situation is, and more simply "the league will fail if it keeps going the way it is." The NFL would still be making a **** ton of money if they just kept the current CBA. The NBA would not.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
06-30-2011, 08:26 PM
Players. Like dude above mentioned... If you can't run a business, you have no buisness buying an NBA franchise.

Also, because they're trying to take away what the players already get. It's like if your @ work and you currently make $20.00 and hour and your boss comes up to you and says. Your now gonna be making $10.50. Wouldn't be too happy now huh? ;)

Darrell Russell
06-30-2011, 08:27 PM
I'm not blaming the players at all. Of course the players have nothing to do with the league losing money, it's the league's fault obviously. The players make the league money, I understand that. But the system as it stands now is broken. The way the league is currently structured, it can't make money, with exponentially increasing operating costs and such. They need to shut down the league and refresh. That's just the way it is.

It's much different than the NFL lockout. In the NFL, the players and the owners are fighting over a huge sum of money, but both sides are making a great profit. In the NBA, there is no huge sum of money that the owners a fighting to keep. It's less "owners vs. players" as the NFL situation is, and more simply "the league will fail if it keeps going the way it is." The NFL would still be making a **** ton of money if they just kept the current CBA. The NBA would not.

How much are the billionaires exactly losing though? Because from what it looks like, the billionaires are just trying to make even more money. Im sure there are other expenses that can but cut or reduced, but that would take actual good management, the owners are lazy and want to just go the easy route and take money back from the players.

PhillyFaninLA
06-30-2011, 08:31 PM
Owners hands down on this one....but I sided with the players on the NFL lockout.

If the players get there way there will be no NBA in 20 years.

The owners screwed up and are slowly bankrupting the league, they gave the players more then the asked for and its starting to hurt the league.

If the owners don't play hard ball, get a hard cap with lower max salaries, and have a structure that prevents them from making the same mistakes there will be no NBA in 20 years.

Its unfair to the players who only took what they where given, which is more then they asked for but its from a business standpoint what the league needs to survive.

BuddhaMONK
06-30-2011, 08:33 PM
I bet the NHL is loving this.

PhillyFaninLA
06-30-2011, 08:34 PM
Owners. If the majority of teams can’t turn a profit then the NBA will cease to exist.


Well said and much more concise then I said it.

albertc86
06-30-2011, 08:36 PM
Players. Like dude above mentioned... If you can't run a business, you have no buisness buying an NBA franchise.

Also, because they're trying to take away what the players already get. It's like if your @ work and you currently make $20.00 and hour and your boss comes up to you and says. Your now gonna be making $10.50. Wouldn't be too happy now huh? ;)

I hear where you're coming from but comparing an employee making $20.00 an hour --- to say an NBA player making over $100,000 a game --- isn't the same. Some players make more than that a game and some make half of that but that's still a lot of money. The players to the owners are overpaid, imo. When you have dudes like Antoine Walker going broke just comes to show you how careless they are with their money. I guarantee you if they made what doctors make they wouldn't be as careless as they are.

I think a profit should be made by the franchises but it is distasteful to argue salaries when they consider who they're making it on (us).

Darrell Russell
06-30-2011, 08:40 PM
I hear where you're coming from but comparing an employee making $20.00 an hour --- to say an NBA player making over $100,000 a game --- isn't the same.



Jealousy. It is the same, the money isn't but the principle is.



Some players make more than that a game and some make half of that but that's still a lot of money.


So what, the owners are billionaires who make more off of the players than the players actually make.


The players to the owners are overpaid, imo. When you have dudes like Antoine Walker going broke just comes to show you how careless they are with their money.

The players spending their hard earned money has anything to do with this, how? It doesn't. Just jealousy again.


I guarantee you if they made what doctors make they wouldn't be as careless as they are.

Silly point, people of all jobs spend their money in some way that others will find careless.




.............

Sixerlover
06-30-2011, 08:41 PM
Owners. Let's just play some basketball though people.

The Final Boss
06-30-2011, 08:42 PM
I side with the owners. Its their ****ing teams!! Maybe I'm being biased since I'll never side with these kinda people...

Green_Monster
06-30-2011, 08:44 PM
The each players should be getting about 1/4 of what there making, in every sport (Basketball,Baseball,Football,Hockey, etc. Remember when A-Rod was making $30 Million? Lets say somehow he played everyone of those 162 games, and had 4 at bats each game. Everytime he stepped up to the plate he made just a little of 46 thousand. Unbelievable. Some people make that Yearly. He makes it 4 times daily. Its sad and crazy to see it go this far. I hate to see the lockout happen. But I'm on the owners side.

Tom Stone
06-30-2011, 08:47 PM
Down with players union.....down with greed !

Darrell Russell
06-30-2011, 08:47 PM
The each players should be getting about 1/4 of what there making, in every sport (Basketball,Baseball,Football,Hockey, etc. Remember when A-Rod was making $30 Million? Lets say somehow he played everyone of those 162 games, and had 4 at bats each game. Everytime he stepped up to the plate he made just a little of 46 thousand. Unbelievable. Some people make that Yearly. He makes it 4 times daily. Its sad and crazy to see it go this far. I hate to see the lockout happen. But I'm on the owners side.

Uh arod never made 30 million, he made 25 million and he actually makes more now. Shows what you know already. You say some people dont make 46 thousand yearly, yet you are siding with billionaires who have more money than some counties.

albertc86
06-30-2011, 08:47 PM
.............

You're defending NBA players who play 6-months out of the year and making millions of dollars? At the end of the day, they're playing a game and being compensated extremely well for it. The owners aren't any better, but hey, if you think spending hundreds of dollars to go see a 2 1/2 hour game is worth it then go right ahead. If anything, it should hit home because YOUR hard earned money isn't being profited in the way either party agrees on. Do you think the players to owners give a damn about YOU or any of us? Get real, dude.

Bishnoff
06-30-2011, 08:49 PM
Well said and much more concise then I said it.

Cheers :)

It's not as if these guys (owners) are stupid when it comes to running a business. Most of them have earned their money the hard way. If they say that the current structure isn’t profitable then I’m sure there’s some truth to it.

In saying that, owners generally do not know sufficient about the game of Basketball and the inner workings of a NBA team to run a team on their own. When inexperienced owners try to control too much of the operational side of a team instead of relying on their GM’s and Front Office then there is no excuse for poor performance (both financially and on the court).

Sixerlover
06-30-2011, 08:52 PM
You're defending NBA players who play 6-months out of the year and making millions of dollars? At the end of the day, they're playing a game and being compensated extremely well for it. The owners aren't any better, but hey, if you think spending hundreds of dollars to go see a 2 1/2 hour game is worth it then go right ahead. If anything, it should hit home because YOUR hard earned money isn't being profited in the way either party agrees on. Do you think the players to owners give a damn about YOU or any of us? Get real, dude.

He's making valid points. Why should we hold the fact that they make a lot of money for an extremely rare talent against them? And NBA players don't just play 6 months out of the year. They play 6 months and then train 6 extra months. It's an extremely difficult job to have (unless your Iverson :laugh2:)

At the end of the day it's your choice what to do with your money, no need to try and provoke somebody with "BUT HEY IF YOU THINK SPENDING 1000000 DOLLARS ON A 2 HOUR GAME GO AHEAD".. Obviously sports fans spend money on sporting events.

Darrell Russell
06-30-2011, 08:54 PM
You're defending NBA players who play 6-months out of the year and making millions of dollars?

Players that most of them have worked hard and sacrificed things their entire lives to get where they are. While some billionaires didn't have to work at all to become rich, and this is who you guys are siding with.


At the end of the day, they're playing a game and being compensated extremely well for it.


At the end of the day they are the product. The owners are being compensated even more for what the product does.


The owners aren't any better, but hey, if you think spending hundreds of dollars to go see a 2 1/2 hour game is worth it then go right ahead.


The owners are extremely worse. They are billionaires, some probably were born rich.



If anything, it should hit home because YOUR hard earned money isn't being profited in the way either party agrees on.

I pay to be entertained, i dont care where the money goes after i spend it for entertainment. As far as im concerned, once i spend the money and im entertained, they can flush the money down the toilet.



Do you think the players to owners give a damn about YOU or any of us? Get real, dude.


When has that even been the issue? I dont care if they give a damn, but im not siding with billionaires trying to take money from millionaires who are the reason people pay to even watch their bs teams.




Another thing, these owners shouldn't be so cocky. Josh childress got a pretty good contract overseas, im sure a lot of players could get the same and way more.

pd1dish
06-30-2011, 08:56 PM
Maybe NBA 2k11 will be NBA12 with updates, they can just change up all the roster changes.

even if there is a lockout, i think they expect to release 2k12 with the current rosters, and obviously if there are any changes once the lockout is lifted they will be made in an update. if you dont want to buy 2k12, just wait for a 2k11 user to upload an updated roster on xbox live because once 2k12 comes out, 2k sports will stop bringing out official updates.

Darrell Russell
06-30-2011, 08:57 PM
Cheers :)

It's not as if these guys (owners) are stupid when it comes to running a business. Most of them have earned their money the hard way. If they say that the current structure isn’t profitable then I’m sure there’s some truth to it.

Lol what billionaire owners have earned their money "the hard way" ? I guess players training,working, and sacrificing things their entire lives to get into the nba isn't earning it.

Giraffes Rule
06-30-2011, 08:58 PM
I have no sympathy for either side. Players are overcompensated, and the owners don't spend their money wisely.

albertc86
06-30-2011, 09:08 PM
He's making valid points. Why should we hold the fact that they make a lot of money for an extremely rare talent against them? And NBA players don't just play 6 months out of the year. They play 6 months and then train 6 extra months. It's an extremely difficult job to have (unless your Iverson :laugh2:)

At the end of the day it's your choice what to do with your money, no need to try and provoke somebody with "BUT HEY IF YOU THINK SPENDING 1000000 DOLLARS ON A 2 HOUR GAME GO AHEAD".. Obviously sports fans spend money on sporting events.

An extremely rare talent? Having basketball skills is an extremely rare talent? Perhaps playing professionally is an extremely rare opportunity, but having skills in the game itself, is not a rare talent.

And they do not train 6 months out of the year. They travel 6-months out of the year and stay closer to home the other six months where they do practice.

But you're right. Sports fans do spend the money to see the product on the court. Perhaps that should enter the equation and we should do what Arenas suggested and lock the owners out. But, of course, both parties would be forced to lower their salaries. It just seems distasteful that those poor millionaires and billionaires are arguing about inflated salaries given the nation's economical climate; that's all.

I'm not expected to have any support here. This is a sports forum after all but a little perspective doesn't hurt.

Both sides claim to be on the side of the fans but it's difficult to believe given what they're arguing for.

bholly
06-30-2011, 09:09 PM
The story isn't up yet, but Bucher is reporting $1m fines for teams who contact players:


League office taking hard stand. Has told teams contact w/players after midnight = $1 million fine. And more. Story on mothership shortly.

Hardcore. I wonder if it'll happen?

BALLER R
06-30-2011, 09:11 PM
I was just wondering if it would benefit any player. Example longer time period for an other player with nagging injuries to get in better shape. Younger players get more time to develop their game. But i think it could also be bad for older players because it takes a year away from their career.

What are your thoughts?

Hellcrooner
06-30-2011, 09:13 PM
euroleague if it lasts long enough.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-30-2011, 09:19 PM
Euroleague and the NHL and haters of the NBA.

Bishnoff
06-30-2011, 09:22 PM
Lol what billionaire owners have earned their money "the hard way" ? I guess players training,working, and sacrificing things their entire lives to get into the nba isn't earning it.

The owners haven't made their money from Basketball...

Starting up businesses from scratch and amassing millions of dollars to be in a position to buy a NBA franchise isn’t easy buddy. Every successful business owner I know work on average 80+ hours a week. I'd call that hard work, wouldn't you?

I'm not saying the players don't earn their salary, I'm arguing that the league will not survive under the current structure. As a fan I’d like to be able to continue watching NBA Basketball with roughly 30 teams. That won’t happen if the majority of owners are consistently losing money.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-30-2011, 09:28 PM
Instead of all owners can I just say the big market owners or the owners making the profit. They have to listen to these small market owners who bought franchises and don't know how to run it and players who just want money.

Chupi
06-30-2011, 09:34 PM
Players under contract would have to go to court to get a Letter of Clearance to play overseas. Idk if players are willing to go through all that garbage to play one year and then comeback.

The 2011 FA class is free to leave though, luckily it isnt good lol.

mttwlsn16
06-30-2011, 09:45 PM
**** you stern

Darrell Russell
06-30-2011, 09:48 PM
The owners haven't made their money from Basketball...


Well duh, and some were also born rich and had stuff given to them.

Starting up businesses from scratch and amassing millions of dollars to be in a position to buy a NBA franchise isn’t easy buddy. Every successful business owner I know work on average 80+ hours a week. I'd call that hard work, wouldn't you?

Uh they all didnt start businesses from scratch. Plus how does that make them more hard working than a player who has been working hard to reach the nba since probably the age of 4? Working hard into the night, going to school, probably having a job too. Plus you dont know if those guys actually worked hard to make their money, they could have been born rich, born with a trust fund, born with millions.


I'm not saying the players don't earn their salary, I'm arguing that the league will not survive under the current structure. As a fan I’d like to be able to continue watching NBA Basketball with roughly 30 teams. That won’t happen if the majority of owners are consistently losing money.

That is the owners fault, which is why they shouldn't get a bailout aka a hardcap to make their jobs easier, they should just learn how to manage a damn team and their finances.




......................

heyman321
06-30-2011, 09:54 PM
**** you stern

Lol what? You clearly don't understand the lockout. It's the players' fault for wanting too much money when the whole world just went through a economic shithole.

JPHX
06-30-2011, 10:00 PM
Lol what? You clearly don't understand the lockout. It's the players' fault for wanting too much money when the whole world just went through a economic shithole.

uh no. both sides have faults. you cant pin the lockout soley on the players union.

SportsFanatic10
06-30-2011, 10:08 PM
alot of wives/gfs are gonna like it lol.

heyman321
06-30-2011, 10:08 PM
uh no. both sides have faults. you cant pin the lockout soley on the players union.

You mean giving those huge contracts in the last CBA? Then yes, but really it's the players' fault for thinking they deserve a lot more than they do that they couldn't reach an agreement for this new one. The hard crap the owners proposed should be higher, but the fact that crap/washed up/ injured and soon to be washed up players are making so much money is ridiculous.

thenetslegend
06-30-2011, 10:10 PM
benefits some nba teams and the nhl. i might tune into the nhl myself if there is no nba

papipapsmanny
06-30-2011, 10:12 PM
Fascism

Are you 12?

Free education most went to college on scholarships, and didn't do **** with it.

So you are saying the owners should literally operate teams at a loss and act like its not a problem?

Oh sell the teams.... why don't you tell that to the dodgers owner?? he is losing his ***.

PhillyFaninLA
06-30-2011, 10:14 PM
The lock out is about protecting yourself against liability. If a player comes to work out with no CBA and no insurance and blows out a knee they could sue the team and the owner directly.

The other reason for a lockout is to limit resources used while resources are coming in. With an expired CBA its smart.


Remember for those that forget:
CBA expiration is not the same as a lockout. The CBA expiration is the cause for the lockout.


CBA = rules, guidelines, and structure of league

lockout = you can't come to work since we can't do business anyway

Bishnoff
06-30-2011, 10:14 PM
Darrell Russell, I'm not against the players so stop responding like I've got some problem with what players earn. You obviously have a problem with the owners. As a blanket statement, I do not have a problem with the owners or the players; I can see it from both sides. Seeing it from both sides doesn’t automatically produce a resolution.


That is the owners fault, which is why they shouldn't get a bailout aka a hardcap to make their jobs easier, they should just learn how to manage a damn team and their finances.

With a NBA franchise, there is a limit depending on the destination as to how much revenue a team can turnover in a financial year. Big market teams are privy to much higher ticket sales and merchandise sales. They are also offered better sponsorship deals and have more nationally televised games (on average). Under a soft cap, big market teams can therefore spend more money on player salaries, which artificially drives up the wages demanded by the players. This has progressively been the case over the last 10-11 years since the last lockout and we now find ourselves with a league where the majority of the teams from smaller markets can’t afford to put a team on the court that is a title contender AND remain profitable. So what are these small market team owners to do? Some spend big (bigger than what they should based on revenue) to have a shot at a ring and keep their fans happy, others are content with mediocrity if it means that they turn a profit most years.

So where does that leave us? Either a hard cap at a reduced figure that allows ALL teams to be able to spend up to the cap limit and still have a chance at turning a profit; or get rid of half the teams in the league that are from destinations that are limited in the revenue that they can turnover and can’t compete with the big market teams. And if you get rid of half the teams, you also get rid of half the players since there will be less roster spots. This will ultimately lead to reduced opportunities for young, up-and-coming players who may decide on another (safer, more profitable) career choice and rob us (the fans) of watching their potential brilliance on a Basketball court.

papipapsmanny
06-30-2011, 10:17 PM
If they were losing money, not only is it the owner's fault for purchasing a poor franchise, it is their fault for poor management of funds. None of that has to do with the players, if you are losing money it is solely the owners fault.

this is such backwards logic dude, if any logic at all.

Every business if it starts losing money people get fired, and take wage cuts the NBA isn't special.

Ted Leonosis..... great owner he brought the wiz cause he loves D.C. but he said they lost money this year. Players should be considered lucky if they were all getting 500 grand to play a ****ing basketball game. Literally they get paid millions to play basketball, practice baseketball, and workout.

papipapsmanny
06-30-2011, 10:20 PM
Uh arod never made 30 million, he made 25 million and he actually makes more now. Shows what you know already. You say some people dont make 46 thousand yearly, yet you are siding with billionaires who have more money than some counties.

honestly dude do you get anything right?

This will be the 3rd season in a row that Arod has made over 30 mil

BigCityofDreams
06-30-2011, 10:21 PM
And owners make billions of dollars

Slimsim
06-30-2011, 10:22 PM
Teams like Orlando NJ and New Orleans all have star players that will be free agents in 2012. If there is no basketball how are these 3 teams going to convince or show that the team is headed in the right direction at competing for a title ?

papipapsmanny
06-30-2011, 10:22 PM
And owners make billions of dollars

not really

MVP1
06-30-2011, 10:28 PM
I bet the NHL is loving this.

Cause they sure took advantage of the previous NBA strike. ;)

thenetslegend
06-30-2011, 10:28 PM
well it could. doesnt really hurt new orleans cause paul is going to bolt to the knicks either way

Slimsim
06-30-2011, 10:34 PM
well it could. doesnt really hurt new orleans cause paul is going to bolt to the knicks either way

Not if the Knicks Say No paul we decided to surround the team with Good role players and Chauncey come back for cheap and mentor Iman into a legit NBA starting PG

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-30-2011, 10:35 PM
Not if the Knicks Say No paul we decided to surround the team with Good role players and Chauncey come back for cheap and mentor Iman into a legit NBA starting PG

I think though its a given that CP3 is going to be a Knick once his contract is up.

thenetslegend
06-30-2011, 10:43 PM
Not if the Knicks Say No paul we decided to surround the team with Good role players and Chauncey come back for cheap and mentor Iman into a legit NBA starting PG

legit bench players would want to come with paul there. knicks would not say no to cp3. nobody would

knicksfan42
06-30-2011, 10:45 PM
Yes it benefits the owners, 22 out of the leagues 30 teams are losing money, if a lockout occurs they won't have to pay the players and they wont lose money.

Green_Monster
06-30-2011, 10:58 PM
Uh arod never made 30 million, he made 25 million and he actually makes more now. Shows what you know already. You say some people dont make 46 thousand yearly, yet you are siding with billionaires who have more money than some counties.

Arod has made 30 million, so that shows how much you know. No one agrees with you. Just stop, your embarrassing yourself.

king4day
06-30-2011, 11:03 PM
If there's no season, I would think all contracts are put off till the season after no?

JNA17
06-30-2011, 11:06 PM
I'm sad that it has come to this.

But hey folks, there is a bright side, another year of Lebron not getting a ring while the big three get even older, nice :D.

Slimsim
06-30-2011, 11:08 PM
If there's no season, I would think all contracts are put off till the season after no?

you think so i was wondering if that would happen.

ragee
06-30-2011, 11:10 PM
How will this get resolved? What do you guys think? Is a hard cap, unavoidable?

ragee
06-30-2011, 11:11 PM
I'm sad that it has come to this.

But hey folks, there is a bright side, another year of Lebron not getting a ring while the big three get even older, nice :D.

If a hard cap is established, the big 3 will be in trouble... They won't be able to stay together unless they are willing to play 3 on 5... lol

Slug3
06-30-2011, 11:14 PM
If there's no season, I would think all contracts are put off till the season after no?

As of right now I think if they lose next season then players lose a year of the contract as well unless when the new CBA is put in place they come to an agreement about rolling over the contracts or something..... but I might be wrong.

JNA17
06-30-2011, 11:16 PM
If a hard cap is established, the big 3 will be in trouble... They won't be able to stay together unless they are willing to play 3 on 5... lol

Hey don't you remember what they said? They could have Pat Riley play at PG! :laugh:

Bishnoff
06-30-2011, 11:34 PM
Great. Multiple threads get moved and an interesting argument gets lost pages back...

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-01-2011, 12:02 AM
Lockout has just officially started.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-01-2011, 12:02 AM
Also listening to the Sports Center music they play when they talk about the lockout sounds sad.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-01-2011, 12:05 AM
It also feels so sad that a year ago today the best NBA free agent class ever had just entered free agency.

drobe86
07-01-2011, 12:11 AM
Small Market owners need to really step up and be willing to spend money. Bring in better players, market better, do something. Don't expect big market teams to bail you out all the time. I feel like if you aren't willing to spend you shouldn't be able to own a team...

netfan83
07-01-2011, 12:23 AM
Players under contract would have to go to court to get a Letter of Clearance to play overseas. Idk if players are willing to go through all that garbage to play one year and then comeback.

The 2011 FA class is free to leave though, luckily it isnt good lol.

Even if you were one of the country's top labor lawyers, this assertion is still highly questionable. They can play and then have the lawyers argue it out afterwards. You do understand what a lockout is? Management is effectively abrogating their contractual rights. Contracts are now probably void pending a newCBA.

Even after a new contract is signed, since I don't know the minutia of the current (expired) CBA, they might have the right to do that and to even roll back contracts initiated under a previous (expired) CBA.

Bishnoff
07-01-2011, 12:37 AM
I'm going to re-post this in response to those blaming small market team owners:


With a NBA franchise, there is a limit depending on the destination as to how much revenue a team can turnover in a financial year. Big market teams are privy to much higher ticket sales and merchandise sales. They are also offered better sponsorship deals and have more nationally televised games (on average). Under a soft cap, big market teams can therefore spend more money on player salaries, which artificially drives up the wages demanded by the players. This has progressively been the case over the last 10-11 years since the last lockout and we now find ourselves with a league where the majority of the teams from smaller markets can’t afford to put a team on the court that is a title contender AND remain profitable. So what are these small market team owners to do? Some spend big (bigger than what they should based on revenue) to have a shot at a ring and keep their fans happy, others are content with mediocrity if it means that they turn a profit most years.

So where does that leave us? Either a hard cap at a reduced figure that allows ALL teams to be able to spend up to the cap limit and still have a chance at turning a profit; or get rid of half the teams in the league that are from destinations that are limited in the revenue that they can turnover and can’t compete with the big market teams. And if you get rid of half the teams, you also get rid of half the players since there will be less roster spots. This will ultimately lead to reduced opportunities for young, up-and-coming players who may decide on another (safer, more profitable) career choice and rob us (the fans) of watching their potential brilliance on a Basketball court.

JerseysFinest
07-01-2011, 12:50 AM
I'm somewhat confident that the two sides will agree to a deal before the new year. Judging by many reports, both parties are very amiable and open to new concepts that would benefit the league. I'd predict when the players are supposed to receive their checks, sometime in November, we'll see a lot of movement. Possibly even around the time when the season is set to begin, and it becomes a reality to the players that they are sacrificing an entire 82 game season. The consequences of losing the 2011-12 season could potentially be irreparable. All we as fans can do is hope and pray the NBA and NBPA reach a settlement.

Apophis
07-01-2011, 12:59 AM
Owners hands down on this one....but I sided with the players on the NFL lockout.If the players get there way there will be no NBA in 20 years.

The owners screwed up and are slowly bankrupting the league, they gave the players more then the asked for and its starting to hurt the league.

If the owners don't play hard ball, get a hard cap with lower max salaries, and have a structure that prevents them from making the same mistakes there will be no NBA in 20 years.

Its unfair to the players who only took what they where given, which is more then they asked for but its from a business standpoint what the league needs to survive.

Same here...

Sixerlover
07-01-2011, 01:02 AM
Small Market owners need to really step up and be willing to spend money. Bring in better players, market better, do something. Don't expect big market teams to bail you out all the time. I feel like if you aren't willing to spend you shouldn't be able to own a team...

Pretty easy to say when your owner is Mark Cuban and has no problem dishing out 90 million in contracts..

Small team owners don't have the same luxuries. They spend that kind of $$ and they'll end up DEEP in the red.

Sixerlover
07-01-2011, 01:08 AM
If a hard cap is established, the big 3 will be in trouble... They won't be able to stay together unless they are willing to play 3 on 5... lol

A low salary hard cap would be trouble for every good team :pity:

Miami
LA - Kobe, Gasol, Bynum (especially! Those 3 alone are slotted to earn about 56 mil next year, that's the salary cap!)
Chicago - Rose's extention, Boozer's 16 a year, Noah's upcoming extension + Deng's 12 mil a year
Dallas
Memphis - Z BO 15 a year, Rudy's 15 a year, Conley's 9 a year and Gasol's extension
PORTLAND

Most teams are somewhere praying for an amnesty clause if a hard cap, or a higher hard cap while OKC is somewhere laughing and smoking cigars

Bishnoff
07-01-2011, 01:39 AM
A low salary hard cap would be trouble for every team well over the cap

Fixed.

nykobe24
07-01-2011, 01:57 AM
well by the looks of this thread and from what i'm hearing it's a STRONG AND I MEAN STRONG chance there will be no NBA season :cry:

Crzycjunx76
07-01-2011, 02:55 AM
Small Market owners need to really step up and be willing to spend money. Bring in better players, market better, do something. Don't expect big market teams to bail you out all the time. I feel like if you aren't willing to spend you shouldn't be able to own a team...

Nearly every owner expects to make money, they are businessmen and their franchises are investments, not toys. The teams in small markets add to the value of every franchise by expanding the games fan base and viewership. The national television packages bring in so much revenue because of the broad fan base in many different markets... if you let those teams fold and just run a big market league the profitability for the remaining owners will drop and the league would "wither on the vine".

MagicHero3
07-01-2011, 08:19 AM
so what was it this yr- a soft cap with over-the-cap penatlies? or did they just say "soft cap" and they could spend as much as they want anyway? i duno this could go backwards if there is a hard cap- bigtime players make most of their money off endorsements anyways, so they wont mind taking paycuts to team up with each other anyway. This will def create a larger demand for role players seeing as they DO need the money unlike the superstars.

ManRam
07-01-2011, 09:07 AM
Don't know if this has been posted...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=5-on-5-110701


1. Will this NBA lockout be longer or shorter than in 1998-99?


Kevin Arnovitz, Heat Index: Shorter. The tone on Thursday was discouraging, but that's the case at the deadline of almost any labor negotiation in any industry. The chasm looks large now, but both sides made meaningful concessions in recent proposals -- and both sides realize that future revenues are far too lucrative to let a lockout drag into a new calendar year.

Bret LaGree, Hoopinion: Even though I'm no optimist, I believe the lockout will be shorter. The players appear willing to compromise and the owners will lose far more money during an extended lockout than they lost (or claimed to lose) during the 2010-11 season.

Rob Peterson, Hardwood Paroxysm: Longer. Much longer. I think the '11-12 season is in jeopardy. Neither side sounds ready to compromise and you can see the dirt flying off the shovels as the players and the owners dig in. The owners seem ready to burn down the village to "save" it.

Chris Sheridan, ESPN.com: Hard to tell at this point, but shorter is the logical answer. If the owners quickly realize they are going down the wrong road, they can make a quick U-turn and get this thing settled before the end of summer. (They have had short lockouts before, in 1994 and 1995.) If reason prevails, it'll be much shorter. Problem is, unreasonableness reigns right now.

Timothy Varner, 48 Minutes of Hell: Shorter. Of all the good CBA material published Thursday, the two most interesting takes were Chris Sheridan's woe-to-come plea for more collective bargaining urgency and Henry Abbott's sober-yet-optimistic assessment of the movement already made between the union and the association. I'm in Abbott's camp. The two parties are making concessions at a healthy pace. The sky isn't falling.

2. Who's to blame: the owners or the players?

Kevin Arnovitz, Heat Index: Neither. Was this conflict avoidable? Sure. But this is a process in which billions of dollars are at stake in a business with financial uncertainty. Owners have legitimate gripes about the current structure, but the players are operating on reasonable principles as well and have already capitulated on significant issues.

Bret LaGree, Hoopinion: No one will be to blame unless we lose games. It's perfectly acceptable, at this time, for both sides to negotiate aggressively toward their own best interests.

Rob Peterson, Hardwood Paroxysm: The owners. Let's put it this way: If someone offered you $66 million for six years of work would you turn it down? I didn't think so. The owners don't have to give marginal players ridiculous deals. The owners do it because they're competitive, but they can't keep themselves in check, so they shift the blame to players for accepting millions.

Chris Sheridan, ESPN.com: The owners. They should be milking this opportunity through the holiday weekend, making side wagers amongst themselves on whether Billy Hunter gives them another $400 million, $500 million, or whatever, then they settle it Sunday or Monday with $1 billion in their wallets and hope the NFL stays in a work stoppage. They are punishing their product at the most inopportune time, and picking a fight against what were loyal employees.

Timothy Varner, 48 Minutes of Hell: Blame implies wrongdoing, but in what way is this a moral issue? Neither the owners nor players are acting immorally toward one another; they're bargaining, which is a perfectly natural business process. Are the fans the objects of wrongdoing? If so, then the owners and players each share some small measure of blame, but it's limited. Basketball is not yet lost.

3. Was June 30 just a façade? Is Labor Day the true deadline?


Kevin Arnovitz, Heat Index: June 30 was a hard deadline. We're in a lockout. This is real. No transactions, no paychecks, no summer league, no team-sanctioned meetings or workouts, nervous sponsors and antsy television execs. That doesn't mean that the two sides don't have time to avert disaster, but the lockout has real-world consequences.

Bret LaGree, Hoopinion: Clearly it was a façade for the owners. They've only made demands. The real deadline, on their side, is whenever their unity breaks down along the lines of profitable/unprofitable, large market/small market or competent/incompetent.

Rob Peterson, Hardwood Paroxysm: I don't think June 30 is a façade, because the NBA isn't missing any regular-season games. But when you get closer to Labor Day that puts training camp in jeopardy, and then the regular season could be too. Labor Day is the true deadline if they want to have a full season.

Chris Sheridan, ESPN.com: No. If you want to have a legit 82-game season, you can do so by starting around Dec. 10. You push the NBA Finals back to the end of June, like they did in '99, and you extend the regular season through April. So you need an agreement by Thanksgiving, then you play two exhibitions while simultaneously signing some of the 200 free agents, you have a mad scramble and then you fasten your seatbelts and play 82.

Timothy Varner, 48 Minutes of Hell: Yes. The lockout is, in large measure, a PR and negotiating maneuver by the owners. Has anything really been lost? Summer league? Big deal. At the end of the day, negotiations continue to push along. Labor Day, on the other hand, marks a moment of imminent loss. That date matters.

4. Are owners capitalizing on or victimized by a weak economy?

Kevin Arnovitz, Heat Index: A little of both. Franchises have been adversely affected by sagging consumer demand, frugal sponsors and municipalities unwilling to foot the bill for pro sports. But there's a trace of disingenuousness in the enormous losses claimed by many of the owners. If the numbers were more transparent, we'd have a better grasp on reality.

Bret LaGree, Hoopinion: Maybe it's because I know I can't play professional basketball but can still fantasize about owning a team (given a non-specific and extraordinary series of events), but owning an NBA team seems like a pretty sweet deal; one that should be profitable as long as you don't do obviously dumb things.

Rob Peterson, Hardwood Paroxysm: They're capitalizing on the weak economy. Everybody's hurting in this economy. But if the owners are going to complain about losing money, then maybe they shouldn't spend so much. No one is forcing them to do so.

Chris Sheridan, ESPN.com: The owners, who made their initial proposal in the recession economy of 2008-09, are capitalizing on their leverage, but they also could be overreaching against a bunch of guys who have made it to the NBA because of their competitiveness. When the product goes missing in the fall, the leverage shifts -- but only if the players have the wherewithal to not capitulate. I'm not sure they do.

Timothy Varner, 48 Minutes of Hell: Ultimately, the owners want what the players already possess: guarantees. Player salaries and contracts are guaranteed. Many owners are experiencing something completely unknown to the players: the owners are losing money from their participation in the business of basketball. Having said that, how many business owners have the gall to request guaranteed profitability? Such a request smacks of opportunism.

5. Flash forward: What will be talking about on Jan. 1, 2012?


Kevin Arnovitz, Heat Index: Are the Lakers still relevant? Will the Bulls acquire a legitimate starting shooting guard at the trade deadline? How did the Heat become a 7-seconds-or-less outfit?! Can OKC learn to play a championship brand of D? Can the Knicks learn to play a passable brand of D? Imagine what Blake Griffin and Eric Gordon could do with an elite coach!

Bret LaGree, Hoopinion: Hypothetical transactions, especially those that center around the relative value of expiring contracts under the new CBA.

Rob Peterson, Hardwood Paroxysm: The final weekend of the NFL season.

Chris Sheridan, ESPN.com: The games that were played on New Year's Eve. Because even though I think this lockout is stupid, I still believe there are reasonable people with reasonable minds who are negotiating the labor deal, and they will not tarnish their product with too much of the collateral damage that comes from an extended work stoppage. Then again, I try to think like Spock, but David Stern is Captain Kirk and isn't afraid to boldly go where no man has gone before.

Timothy Varner, 48 Minutes of Hell: This one is easy. We'll be talking about the Miami Heat. I can hear the talking points now: "LeBron James and Dwyane Wade fiercely disagree over the latest batch of 'American Idol' contestants. Is the Heat locker room on the verge of collapse?"



Love the very last bit by Varner...made me giggle. Too true.

As for the blame part, Tim and Kevin make the best points IMO.

barreleffact
07-01-2011, 09:59 AM
I'm with the players. Correct me if I;m wrong but "amortized" debts that the owners are adding are not basketball related debts. They are the costs for them to finance and own the team. Basically if they payed 400mil over ten years to buy a team it would be 40 mil per year plus interest. The amortized part includes the cost of buying the team, correct?

If so, why should the players give a ******* bout how much the owners pay to own. I mean what does that have to do with BRI? They should not make so much money to where they profit instantly from the sale, but that is what they are trying to do. That in and of itself is foolish to me because if a business was making 50 mil per year for the owner, would it really have been sold?

Thus about 210 of the estimated 370 mil losses aren't true losses. They are costs to buy the team, completely irrespective of the cost to RUN the team. The bulk of the other costs are from relocating teams (which is said to be 30mil) and the Katrina disaster in NO. The disaster aside, how much of that are really losses? The owners are basically just trying to screw the players IMO if the article I read is correct. I'd lockout too...

Until I considered my salary and the fact that Stern and the owners are pretty much guaranteeing that players will receive the same amount this year over the life of the next CBA (roughly 2 billion). Then it becomes a "why not just guarantee contracts and sign" type of debate.

Luxy312
07-01-2011, 10:46 AM
Small Market owners need to really step up and be willing to spend money. Bring in better players, market better, do something. Don't expect big market teams to bail you out all the time. I feel like if you aren't willing to spend you shouldn't be able to own a team...

This is about as "business illogical" as it gets. In the long term, there's no business that can spend more than it makes indefinitely. That's a recipe for failure and folding. NBA teams are no different. Some reports suggested that as many as 22 NBA teams were in the red this season. If that's even close to being the truth, this lockout and negotiation is going to make the NFL dispute look minor. If true, I think the loss of an entire season is at least 80% likely.

Southsideheat
07-01-2011, 10:56 AM
no one really knows how long the lockout will be.

SteBO
07-01-2011, 11:39 AM
This is about as "business illogical" as it gets. In the long term, there's no business that can spend more than it makes indefinitely. That's a recipe for failure and folding. NBA teams are no different. Some reports suggested that as many as 22 NBA teams were in the red this season. If that's even close to being the truth, this lockout and negotiation is going to make the NFL dispute look minor. If true, I think the loss of an entire season is at least 80% likely.
Drobe is correct for the most part, but I think it's more of the fact that the small market owners feel the need to overpay the Plan B's or C's. I don't think it's as much of a matter of spending more money as it is spending it wisely. Perfect example: The NJ Nets were as much in the race for LeBron, Wade, and Bosh as MIA, NY, and CHI were. But when they realized they were going to get shut out, Mikhail gave generous contracts to Travis Outlaw ad Anthony Morrow. That's part of the problem too, moreso in my opinion. NJ isn't the most attractive destination in the NBA, obviously, but they need to draft better and make smart trades. Good thing for them, they're moving to Brooklyn which will definitely up there chances in any FA situation. OKC, San Antonio, even Memphis now, have all made smart business decisions as personnel decisions. They don't go all in most times. MIA took a huge risk gutting their entire roster to get the "big three", and it paid off this time around, but it isn't a tactic that small market teams afford to do. The Nets tried it, and it doomed them. Detroit in the same state, and Utah is in the same fix as well as ORL. They have to be smarter about where to invest their dollars.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-01-2011, 11:47 AM
Ken Berger says owners want players crushed.

Ken Berger of CBSSports.com joined the Dennis & Callahan Show to discuss the NBA lockout. He presented a bleak portrayal of the divide between players and owners.

Berger suggested that owners want a "fundamental change" to the way in which the NBA does business, with owners being guaranteed profits. He suggests that the NBA side is being driven by hard-liners who want "dramatic and significant and life-changing change to the way the NBA does business," resulting in the prospect of a protracted lockout.

"[Owners] essentially want the players crushed and brought to their knees," said Berger. "From a dollars standpoint, this can be figured out. If there were a serious effort on the part of the owners to want to compromise, a compromise would not be difficult to find. But that is not where the owners are.

"They have decided – the hard-liners in particular, and they’re the ones running the show, that they want dramatic and significant and life-changing change to the way the nba does business – to the money the players get and to the way the system is run. From that standpoint, they are hundreds of thousands of miles apart in terms of their positions. The players cannot be expected to bend. They were put into a corner from which they could not negotiate."

Berger identified the percentage of money that goes to the players as compared to the owners to be at the heart of the lockout, along with the owners' desire for a hard cap. He suggested that if the two sides can't compromise on those two issues, the negotiations will go nowhere.

While months remain until the scheduled start of the season, Berger suggested that the two sides need to start negotiating soon or else risk a significant disruption of the season.

"I don’t think you can really say until late August whether games are going to be missed," said Berger. "I will say this: Back in ’98-’99, I think it was 37 days from the lockout to the next negotiating session. Given that the two sides are certainly more entrenched in their positions now than they were then, and certainly farther apart than they were then, they cannot afford that kind of lapse. If they’re not both sitting in a room bargaining in two weeks, I think I’d be very concerned that this will be a lengthy lockout, missing a significant number of games."
http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/21116891/berger-dc-nba-owners-want-players-crushed

Backstabber
07-01-2011, 12:10 PM
I'm going to re-post this in response to those blaming small market team owners:

I believe that this is absolutely true, the large market teams are running up the cost for the smaller market teams. Wouldn't a revenue sharing policy help, to moderate the losses. It seem like all of which you mentioned is a ownership issue. I don't mind contracting somewhat, I believe it would allow the talent to concentrate, and really knocking 50 or so NBA players out of the league wouldn't really deprive us of talent. If anything those 50 roster spots, would only affect marginal players.

It would make less competition for the stars, as well as drive up the supply of available talent. When the supply of available talented players goes up, the salaries you are willing to offer them goes down.

Witness06
07-01-2011, 12:21 PM
Here is something interesting:
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2011/06/30/taking-a-look-at-the-numbers-behind-the-nba-labor-dispute/

Witness06
07-01-2011, 01:22 PM
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Taking a look at the numbers behind the NBA labor dispute

Posted on June 30, 2011 by arturogalletti

5


(Editor Dre’s Note: I took out an XKCD Comic here to insert my thoughts. This article is a great read with a ton of stuff to read over so I really wanted to insert some spoilers for those that may be scared of math)

Player’s salaries have stayed even with inflation. Essentially this means their pay has not been going up.
Owners have been increasing their spending. Management’s operating costs (per their own numbers) have been going up at five times the level of inflation (that’s a lot).
Even in the ideal case for the owners with the new CBA these problems will repeat themselves in 2020.
The Owners are asking the players to take a pay hit to make up for bad management practices.
(Editor Dre: Hope you’re still interested. Sorry for making you miss out on a comic. Enjoy the show!)
I’ve read/listened to a lot of stories recently about how the current NBA salary structure is threatening to put the NBA out of business. The system is broken these stories say and an out of control salary structure is threatening make small market teams extinct.

The stories are fairly easy to believe. All you have to do is close your eyes and think and very quickly a few examples of grossly overpaid player quickly come to mind.


Spoilers

As I was listening and reading an interesting thing happened. Massive warning bells went off in my head. My brain’s finely tuned financial bs detector, trained to spot where numbers don’t quite add up, called shenanigans. The owner’s claims that Player salaries are driving the NBA into the ground are simply not true. They’re hoping the people they’re bargaining with fail at basic math or aren’t paying attention.

Here, then, is my attempt at explaining what is actually going on. Before that you might want to peruse the following links for background:

I managed to source a link for:

Larry Coon’s collective barganing agreement (CBA) FAQ at cbafaq.com
Forbes list of NBA revenues by Team (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/32/nba08_NBA-Team-Valuations_Rank.html)
Wikipedia entry on the NBA Cap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap#NBA_Salary_Cap_history)
US inflation (http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/historicalinflation.aspx)
Back already? Good. Let’s get to the numbers.

The key fact to start with is the following: Players salaries are a fixed Cost at 57% of League Gross revenue.

Let’s repeat that: Players salaries are a fixed Cost at 57% of League Gross revenue!

Any and all cap nonsense is a bunch of hot air. By being fixed to league revenues, player salaries cannot balloon out of control. The league in fact has controls in place in the CBA to keep that number fixed. Those controls are:

The Luxury tax limit, which is simply set by taking the league’s estimate of gross revenue for the season dividing it by 30 and multiplying by 57% (and adjusted against actual revenue using Control #2).
The League holding back 8% of player salaries in escrow and using that money to make adjustments to guarantee the 57%. This is the fudge factor that allows them to keep Player Salaries at a fixed percentage of Revenue.
There is a simple equation then for determining how much money the league actually makes:

Profit Margin = League Revenue -Player salaries (a fixed cost) – Team expenses (Variable Cost)

The big problem with a lot of the analysis I’ve read is this is that not all of this information is public and it makes determining the truth somewhat hard. Writers and analysts are left scrambling for answers based on gut and feel because they don’t have all the facts.

This is a problem we can fix. After all in the advanced stats world we deal with complicated equations all the time and this one is much easier.

Let’s lay out the relevant information:

Using the Luxury tax limit numbers for each year we can figure out Player Salaries (Luxury Tax Limit times 30)
We can determine League revenue (Player Salaries/0.57).
We can assume the league made money in 2005 (say 14 million per team or about $420 Million total)
The League claims an operating loss of 300 Million this year.
Just by looking at those facts and without actually crunching the numbers, my contention is that If the NBA made money in 2005 and now they lose 10 million with a FIXED cost for salaries, then team Expenses are growing past the rate of inflation in a bad way. The problem then isn’t the players – it’s the owners, and they’re exploding their costs and spending money like drunken sailors. (Editor Dre’s Note: I wanted to replace this but I found the metaphor strangely appropriate)


The math does not disagree. Let’s illustrate it:

The simple takeaway from that table is that Player Salaries and NBA Revenues are growing exactly at the US inflation rate (score one for economists everywhere!). Team expenses are growing at a ridiculous five times that. The owners must know this. A new labor deal will not fix that.
Let’s illustrate this again:

Let’s operate under the following assumptions:
The owners get the 40% BRI number the union claims they want.
Player Salaries and revenues are locked in at 2.4% percent increases tied to inflation (with one notable exception)
TV rights go up 21% as they did when last negotiated (the exception)
Under this extremely favorable scenario, the owners will still start losing money by 2020 and looking again at player salaries with evil intent.

In fact, if the owners move to a percent of the Net revenue and not gross revenue (as they also want to do), they can then manipulate the bottom line to bilk the players by for example borrowing against the value of the teams and charging the debt servicing to the team expenses.
Let’s illustrate this as well:

Here I assume a Net Revenue split of 50/50 and that the owners curtail their spending to 2011 levels. This yields a stable business model for the owners but it does so by knocking player salaries down to $3.2 million per player on average from $5.2 million now (a 40% net drop and a steadily decreasing share of the pie over time).
Ok, maybe the math is not so simple but the conclusion is clear. The owners are looking to take the money from the talent. Funny that it all comes down to simple incentives in the end.

-Arturo

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5 Responses “Taking a look at the numbers behind the NBA labor dispute” →

mmotherwell

June 30, 2011

Wow – that is a story the player’s union really needs to get out there – especially in light of the fact that NBA teams surely make more revenue, because the 57% is based on only SOME of the things the NBA makes money from.

Basketball Related income (BRI)and some of the things not included: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q13

Some of the things specifically not included in BRI are proceeds from the grant of expansion teams, fines, and revenue sharing (e.g. luxury tax).

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[...] Taking a look at the numbers behind the NBA labor dispute: At the Wages of Wins, a detailed breakdown of the financial math behind the NBA’s current lockout situation. [...]

The NBA Lockout is Here and Some Links « Swarm & Sting | A New Orleans Hornets Blog →
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Effort was expended for your enjoyment. Feel free to use it but only if you: share, give credit and don't try to sell it.

tbone2171
07-01-2011, 03:09 PM
Good thing we won the championship

You are on the Mavericks? :speechless:

Tom Stone
07-01-2011, 04:40 PM
With owners barely getting by, and players making what they do....it's kind of like the NBA is like a charity for the players.....Here we'll make you a league, give you millions of dollars, and make nothing in return.....And the players are like, hey you have lost money before , you should be used to it......For me it's not about the money....even though I always thought players were way over paid.....It's just about everyone having the chance to win if managed properly= Hard cap......The players don't want fairness in the league...not if it's going to cost them money......Players are choosing money over doing the right thing , doing what's good for our sport

LakersIn5
07-02-2011, 03:30 AM
i have a question.. it says that any nba/team staff cant talk to any of the players. even security guards. but how about situations such as george karl and his son coby?

Witness06
07-02-2011, 09:09 AM
The owners haven't made their money from Basketball...

Starting up businesses from scratch and amassing millions of dollars to be in a position to buy a NBA franchise isn’t easy buddy. Every successful business owner I know work on average 80+ hours a week. I'd call that hard work, wouldn't you?

I'm not saying the players don't earn their salary, I'm arguing that the league will not survive under the current structure. As a fan I’d like to be able to continue watching NBA Basketball with roughly 30 teams. That won’t happen if the majority of owners are consistently losing money.
About The Wages of Wins
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Taking a look at the numbers behind the NBA labor dispute

Posted on June 30, 2011 by arturogalletti

5


(Editor Dre’s Note: I took out an XKCD Comic here to insert my thoughts. This article is a great read with a ton of stuff to read over so I really wanted to insert some spoilers for those that may be scared of math)

Player’s salaries have stayed even with inflation. Essentially this means their pay has not been going up.
Owners have been increasing their spending. Management’s operating costs (per their own numbers) have been going up at five times the level of inflation (that’s a lot).
Even in the ideal case for the owners with the new CBA these problems will repeat themselves in 2020.
The Owners are asking the players to take a pay hit to make up for bad management practices.
(Editor Dre: Hope you’re still interested. Sorry for making you miss out on a comic. Enjoy the show!)
I’ve read/listened to a lot of stories recently about how the current NBA salary structure is threatening to put the NBA out of business. The system is broken these stories say and an out of control salary structure is threatening make small market teams extinct.

The stories are fairly easy to believe. All you have to do is close your eyes and think and very quickly a few examples of grossly overpaid player quickly come to mind.


Spoilers

As I was listening and reading an interesting thing happened. Massive warning bells went off in my head. My brain’s finely tuned financial bs detector, trained to spot where numbers don’t quite add up, called shenanigans. The owner’s claims that Player salaries are driving the NBA into the ground are simply not true. They’re hoping the people they’re bargaining with fail at basic math or aren’t paying attention.

Here, then, is my attempt at explaining what is actually going on. Before that you might want to peruse the following links for background:

I managed to source a link for:

Larry Coon’s collective barganing agreement (CBA) FAQ at cbafaq.com
Forbes list of NBA revenues by Team (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/32/nba08_NBA-Team-Valuations_Rank.html)
Wikipedia entry on the NBA Cap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_salary_cap#NBA_Salary_Cap_history)
US inflation (http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/historicalinflation.aspx)
Back already? Good. Let’s get to the numbers.

The key fact to start with is the following: Players salaries are a fixed Cost at 57% of League Gross revenue.

Let’s repeat that: Players salaries are a fixed Cost at 57% of League Gross revenue!

Any and all cap nonsense is a bunch of hot air. By being fixed to league revenues, player salaries cannot balloon out of control. The league in fact has controls in place in the CBA to keep that number fixed. Those controls are:

The Luxury tax limit, which is simply set by taking the league’s estimate of gross revenue for the season dividing it by 30 and multiplying by 57% (and adjusted against actual revenue using Control #2).
The League holding back 8% of player salaries in escrow and using that money to make adjustments to guarantee the 57%. This is the fudge factor that allows them to keep Player Salaries at a fixed percentage of Revenue.
There is a simple equation then for determining how much money the league actually makes:

Profit Margin = League Revenue -Player salaries (a fixed cost) – Team expenses (Variable Cost)

The big problem with a lot of the analysis I’ve read is this is that not all of this information is public and it makes determining the truth somewhat hard. Writers and analysts are left scrambling for answers based on gut and feel because they don’t have all the facts.

This is a problem we can fix. After all in the advanced stats world we deal with complicated equations all the time and this one is much easier.

Let’s lay out the relevant information:

Using the Luxury tax limit numbers for each year we can figure out Player Salaries (Luxury Tax Limit times 30)
We can determine League revenue (Player Salaries/0.57).
We can assume the league made money in 2005 (say 14 million per team or about $420 Million total)
The League claims an operating loss of 300 Million this year.
Just by looking at those facts and without actually crunching the numbers, my contention is that If the NBA made money in 2005 and now they lose 10 million with a FIXED cost for salaries, then team Expenses are growing past the rate of inflation in a bad way. The problem then isn’t the players – it’s the owners, and they’re exploding their costs and spending money like drunken sailors. (Editor Dre’s Note: I wanted to replace this but I found the metaphor strangely appropriate)


The math does not disagree. Let’s illustrate it:

The simple takeaway from that table is that Player Salaries and NBA Revenues are growing exactly at the US inflation rate (score one for economists everywhere!). Team expenses are growing at a ridiculous five times that. The owners must know this. A new labor deal will not fix that.
Let’s illustrate this again:

Let’s operate under the following assumptions:
The owners get the 40% BRI number the union claims they want.
Player Salaries and revenues are locked in at 2.4% percent increases tied to inflation (with one notable exception)
TV rights go up 21% as they did when last negotiated (the exception)
Under this extremely favorable scenario, the owners will still start losing money by 2020 and looking again at player salaries with evil intent.

In fact, if the owners move to a percent of the Net revenue and not gross revenue (as they also want to do), they can then manipulate the bottom line to bilk the players by for example borrowing against the value of the teams and charging the debt servicing to the team expenses.
Let’s illustrate this as well:

Here I assume a Net Revenue split of 50/50 and that the owners curtail their spending to 2011 levels. This yields a stable business model for the owners but it does so by knocking player salaries down to $3.2 million per player on average from $5.2 million now (a 40% net drop and a steadily decreasing share of the pie over time).
Ok, maybe the math is not so simple but the conclusion is clear. The owners are looking to take the money from the talent. Funny that it all comes down to simple incentives in the end.

-Arturo

Share this:


Facebook
StumbleUpon
Digg
Reddit
Posted in: Arturo, Basketball Stories
← Just Desserts: 100 Greatest Wins Produced Players since 1978
LikeOne blogger likes this post.

5 Responses “Taking a look at the numbers behind the NBA labor dispute” →

mmotherwell

June 30, 2011

Wow – that is a story the player’s union really needs to get out there – especially in light of the fact that NBA teams surely make more revenue, because the 57% is based on only SOME of the things the NBA makes money from.

Basketball Related income (BRI)and some of the things not included: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q13

Some of the things specifically not included in BRI are proceeds from the grant of expansion teams, fines, and revenue sharing (e.g. luxury tax).

NYKalltheway
07-02-2011, 09:30 AM
wow that looks like spam :p

Jamiecballer
07-02-2011, 10:27 AM
here is my thing.

The owners take such a big risk, some lose their ***** and have to sell the team. God forbid they make any money from the biggest financial risk of their lives.

Where basketball players get free education (well supposedly they learn something), then get mad if they aren't making top dollars making a ****ing game.

yea there the ones working, buts that is how every ****ing business in america works. This is like target employees (clerks) being upset that the CEO is making a lot more money than them.

lets say it together..... owners of companies, and employees. Players (NFL, NBA, w/e), you are employees, nothing better, you don't have to play basketball

somebody with a balanced perspective. nice.

ChrisYandek
07-02-2011, 12:09 PM
Interesting read on NBA/NFL Lockout and stadium workers:

http://www.cyinterview.com/2011/07/it%E2%80%99s-a-lock-out-what-of-stadium-and-arena-workers/

LakersIn5
07-02-2011, 12:22 PM
i have a question.. it says that any nba/team staff cant talk to any of the players. even security guards. but how about situations such as george karl and his son coby?

NYKalltheway
07-02-2011, 05:28 PM
Vince Carter rumored to join Turkish team Besiktas, the team where Allen Iverson signed with last season!

airborne_06
07-02-2011, 09:44 PM
sory guys im from Philippines, i do not understand what a lock out is? and how does it affect the free agency and players' motivation? thanks....

x21x NiNJA x21x
07-02-2011, 10:07 PM
A lockout means that we can't get ice cream :(

championships
07-02-2011, 10:46 PM
Lockout means players are basically not part of the NBA right now. No Trades, No free agency, no nothing.

Dash
07-02-2011, 11:24 PM
Basically LeBron isn't allowed to play basketball because his mom don't let him.

Sources (wikipedia)

airronijordan
07-02-2011, 11:53 PM
basically there won't be a NBA until the owners and players (NBAPA) agree to a deal, but it looks like that wont happen anytime soon

Tony_Starks
07-03-2011, 01:38 PM
we don't get to watch basketball while the millionaires fight the billionaires..... The billionaires usually win.

WadeCounty
07-03-2011, 01:45 PM
Two questions

1) Let's say during this lockout the vast majority of the NBA players (lets say 90%) decide to go play overseas with the ludicrous contracts that are being offered like rudy fernandez contract or simply because they want to stay employed and they are not going to wait until the lockout is over(brian scalabrine). Can there be a permanent lockout where the players and owners never really reached a deal and the players just decided to stick out playing their careers elsewhere not in the NBA or is there a set time frame where if neither side reaches an agreement at a certain point the season must start (be it 3 years from now) that I am not aware of?

I see this as the ultimate middle finger towards the league which brings me to my second question.

2) If there is no time frame set on which an agreement must be met and the players do decide to take their talents over seas, do you think the owners will crack and give into the players demands seeing as the players even with the lockout are still making millions of dollars playing elsewhere?

Mind me if my questions are stupid I'm just curious to know if "the show must go on" if no agreement has been reached :p

sep11ie
07-03-2011, 02:09 PM
Is this the 75th Lockout thread today?

sep11ie
07-03-2011, 05:18 PM
http://youtu.be/sy-q4yzcuI4

PhillyFaninLA
07-03-2011, 05:24 PM
sory guys im from Philippines, i do not understand what a lock out is? and how does it affect the free agency and players' motivation? thanks....


The CBA or collective bargaining agreement which is a contractual agreement on how the league will operate expired thus cause the lockout.

A lockout is the owner literally locking players and all non essential employees out of the building because there are no rules of operations. Basically saying non essential employees go home until we get rules and structure to operate under.

bledrules
07-03-2011, 06:06 PM
No NBA basketball is what it means whis is def great news :clap:
Poor little ego maniacs

MJ-BULLS
07-03-2011, 06:16 PM
Here is a good explanation.

It's when the NBA owner and Player's association cannot make an agreement on how much players and the organization get payed. Basket Related Income (BRI) is key here. See, a team makes money form tickets, jersey sales, etc. and it has to share this income with the players. The owners of course want more money and the Player's association wants more for the players. The agreement right now ( About 57% of BRI/income for players and about 43% for owners). If the owners and player's association cannot reach an agreement, no one gets payed, hence no one's playing for free and the owner's aren't setting up a season without money.

dodie53
07-03-2011, 06:28 PM
Here is a good explanation.

It's when the NBA owner and Player's association cannot make an agreement on how much players and the organization get payed. Basket Related Income (BRI) is key here. See, a team makes money form tickets, jersey sales, etc. and it has to share this income with the players. The owners of course want more money and the Player's association wants more for the players. The agreement right now ( About 57% of BRI/income for players and about 43% for owners) is going to expire. If the owners and player's association cannot reach an agreement, no one gets payed, hence no one's playing for free and the owner's aren't setting up a season without money.

thanks.
very helpful.

MJ-BULLS
07-03-2011, 06:30 PM
thanks.
very helpful.

No problemo dude. :up:

NetsPaint
07-03-2011, 07:02 PM
Here is a good explanation.

It's when the NBA owner and Player's association cannot make an agreement on how much players and the organization get payed. Basket Related Income (BRI) is key here. See, a team makes money form tickets, jersey sales, etc. and it has to share this income with the players. The owners of course want more money and the Player's association wants more for the players. The agreement right now ( About 57% of BRI/income for players and about 43% for owners). If the owners and player's association cannot reach an agreement, no one gets payed, hence no one's playing for free and the owner's aren't setting up a season without money.
That even helped me out and I'm from America:laugh2:.

The Apprentice
07-03-2011, 07:16 PM
Hey guys, will there be a draft next june if the whole season is lost?

KnicksR4Real
07-03-2011, 07:17 PM
interesting

PhillyFaninLA
07-03-2011, 07:25 PM
That even helped me out and I'm from America:laugh2:.


Dude denounce your citizenship and get the hell out.

If don't have any respect for this country get the hell out and see how the rest of the world is.

JasonJohnHorn
07-03-2011, 08:04 PM
It seems to me that the CBA's biggest issue is not the rules as they are not, but simply bad business decsions. Firstly the one thing the owners need to do is profit sharing. That is the best way put teams on equal footing so that each can put together a competative team, but aside from that, teams need to make GOOD CHOICES!

Does anybody blame Eddy Curry for taking the contract he took? Or Marbury? Or Francis? Or Gilbert? Or Lewis? Or Stephan Jackson? No. Of course not. They didnt put a gun to anybody's head and make them offer them rediculous deals. The teams did that themselves, in part because of pressures in the market, and in part because they were simply bad choices. Teams like Washington didnt want to lose their best player for nothing and get sent back to the drawing board, but all they did was delaying the rebuilding process. Chicago KNEW Curry was a problem, and so let him go, opting instead to give a far more reasonable contract to Ben Wallace. Orlando could have simply signed Lewis to a contract that was a year shorter, but they opted to do a sign and trade so that they could tact on an extra year. These aren't choices the players made that are sinking the league, they are choices the owners made. Small markets over pay for mid-level talent because they are worried teams like LA, Miami, NY, Dallas and Orlando might come around and scoup them up because they CAN afford to over pay. Impliment profit sharing, and that kind of pressure is out of the equation.

But the bottom line is, as long as the owners CHOOSE to waste money by over-paying for midlevel talent, then buyouts will continue and the poor business model which is resulting in an economically unhealthy league, is going to continue, regardless of length of contracts,a nd garunteed contracts.

Players deserve garunteed contracts. If they get injured, or a new coach opts to play them less, or age starts showing up in their game, they cannot help those things. They should not be punished for things they cannot help and get cut without the paycheck they earned. But guys like Billups, who have reasonable contracts, are not the issue. Its guys like Lewis, Arenas, Jackson and Curry, who are given digusting contracts, that are hurting the league, and it is not even those players faults.

If the Raptors offered me 5 million to play PG, I'd take it in a second even though I know I would be eaten alive out there, but 5 mil is 5 mil. The fault of the bad contracts rest on the owners, and all they seem to want to do is make sure their lack of basketball knowledge doesnt hurt them for more than one season.

But all the owners would need to do it take a lesson from Dumars (no, not signing Charlie V and Gordon, that was a bad lesson), and build through smaller contracts with guys like Billups, or take a lesson from chi-town who let a player walk away in Curry rather than give him a huge contract. Or a team like Seatle, who KNEW giving Lewis that contract was a bad idea and so let him walk away. Then they need to turn around and look at teams like Washington, who mortaged their future to keep Areans, or NY who saw Thomas lock their hands behind their backs with the Marbury contract, and they will see why sometimes a step back is actually a step ahead.

Thoughts?

NetsPaint
07-03-2011, 08:06 PM
Dude denounce your citizenship and get the hell out.

If don't have any respect for this country get the hell out and see how the rest of the world is.
What:confused:?

knicks4life33
07-03-2011, 08:13 PM
What happins if the season is locked out and cancelled. What happins to the draft class of 2012 ? They cant hold a lottery for a number 1 pick cause there was no season. The following year teams would be flooded with rookies and and second rounders if they did find a system. I think they would do a general lottery with every team has the equal chance to get the number 1 pick for a 2012 draft class . What you guys think