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dapooch
06-26-2011, 05:41 PM
Think I will go back to where it all begins, college basketball.

daleja424
06-26-2011, 05:43 PM
Tired of jealous ppl complaining about how much money the players make.

Swashcuff
06-26-2011, 05:44 PM
Tired of jealous ppl complaining about how much money the players make.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

ramsizzle
06-26-2011, 05:46 PM
Tired of jealous ppl complaining about how much money the players make.

i don't think he is being jealous. from the looks of it he is just saying that they are getting paid well and he doesn't like that fact that they are complaining about the millions they already make.(that is why we are about to be in a lockout btw.)

dapooch
06-26-2011, 05:52 PM
It's not about the money, it's about the stupidity of mangement and players in the NBA and the NFL that are turning people off.

Ovratd1up
06-26-2011, 05:53 PM
Don't knock it, mind your business, cuz if the business isn't mine, then the ***** pimpin got it
[Lupe]

Darrell Russell
06-26-2011, 05:57 PM
Doesn't really bother me, but i think the disdain towards players legitimately having a gripe towards billionaires, stems from racism.

llemon
06-26-2011, 05:58 PM
Are you tired of big corporations whining about not getting bigger tax breaks?

Sadds The Gr8
06-26-2011, 05:59 PM
cool story bruh

daleja424
06-26-2011, 06:11 PM
i don't think he is being jealous. from the looks of it he is just saying that they are getting paid well and he doesn't like that fact that they are complaining about the millions they already make.(that is why we are about to be in a lockout btw.)

Wrong. Players are not demanding a biggest piece of the pie. We are going into a lockout bc the owners want to take away what the players already get.

dapooch
06-26-2011, 06:15 PM
Oh man, I did shoot. I had a great college career and to this day I still don't know too many players that could shoot the three like I could. I took the business path after college, and believe me, I made a ton of money in the computer field. It's not all about money, it's about being respected in what you do and gaining respect from people you work with. Every time I walked on a basketball court I gave 110%. Nuff said!

Evolution23
06-26-2011, 06:16 PM
Tired of jealous ppl complaining about how much money the players make.

are u a mod or a troll?

stawka
06-26-2011, 06:16 PM
We watch the NBA for the players, not the owners. Yes it's a business and all that ****, but the players entertain us. Just resolve this **** already FFS!

daleja424
06-26-2011, 06:18 PM
are u a mod or a troll?

Neither :shrug:

SluggeR
06-26-2011, 06:18 PM
Folks have a problem with how much the players make, but nobody complains about how much the owners make.

dapooch
06-26-2011, 06:23 PM
I do agree, I think all major sports should have a profit sharing deal!

Darrell Russell
06-26-2011, 06:25 PM
Folks have a problem with how much the players make, but nobody complains about how much the owners make.

Well look at the players, the demographic, then look at the owners. one= mostly black while the other is 90% or more white. It's pretty easy to see who people would attack first when they have a choice between the two.

theheatles
06-26-2011, 06:27 PM
Oh man, I did shoot. I had a great college career and to this day I still don't know too many players that could shoot the three like I could. I took the business path after college, and believe me, I made a ton of money in the computer field. It's not all about money, it's about being respected in what you do and gaining respect from people you work with. Every time I walked on a basketball court I gave 110%. Nuff said!

:cry::mad::cry::mad:
if u are as good of a 3 point shooter as you make it out to be, then you made the wrong career choice, and just by seeing you calling it the computer field, then i'm fairly certain you didn't have any lucrative career and you are a broke bum...don't hate the players, hate the game:cool:

Jewelz0376
06-26-2011, 06:30 PM
:cry::mad::cry::mad:
if u are as good of a 3 point shooter as you make it out to be, then you made the wrong career choice, and just by seeing you calling it the computer field, then i'm fairly certain you didn't have any lucrative career and you are a broke bum...don't hate the players, hate the game:cool:

Dam that's cold

I have to admit tho it was funny

Jaji
06-26-2011, 06:43 PM
Players want a fair share of the revenue they help generate. If you think they make too much then stop supporting and there will be less money to share. But I can't blame a partner in a partnership for wanting their fair share.

effen5
06-26-2011, 07:00 PM
Seriously pro players should shut the **** up about their salary....

Teachers
Doctors
Fire Fighters
Police Officers

Should be making more money then players period....

THE GIPPER
06-26-2011, 07:14 PM
Oh man, I did shoot. I had a great college career and to this day I still don't know too many players that could shoot the three like I could. I took the business path after college, and believe me, I made a ton of money in the computer field. It's not all about money, it's about being respected in what you do and gaining respect from people you work with. Every time I walked on a basketball court I gave 110%. Nuff said!

bahahaha i guess you can be whoever you want to be on a forum...

SluggeR
06-26-2011, 07:19 PM
Well look at the players, the demographic, then look at the owners. one= mostly black while the other is 90% or more white. It's pretty easy to see who people would attack first when they have a choice between the two.

Amen!!!

imagesrdecievin
06-26-2011, 07:32 PM
Seriously pro players should shut the **** up about their salary....

Teachers
Doctors
Fire Fighters
Police Officers

Should be making more money then players period....

umm - not really.

people are paid by how rare/in demand their talent is.

And as a union man it is sad to see how many people are buying the management line of BS!

GeekInThePink
06-26-2011, 07:38 PM
Well look at the players, the demographic, then look at the owners. one= mostly black while the other is 90% or more white. It's pretty easy to see who people would attack first when they have a choice between the two.

You're a moron, this has nothing to do with race.

Ovratd1up
06-26-2011, 07:48 PM
I'll pretty tired of fans complaining about how much money they make when their viewership is directly funding it

Afridi786
06-26-2011, 08:29 PM
Folks have a problem with how much the players make, but nobody complains about how much the owners make.

Most of the owners are losing money running these teams, that's what this is all about.

bholly
06-26-2011, 08:34 PM
As far as I know none of them are complaining, they're just negotiating to get the best deal they can. It's completely rational and everyone in the world does it. What's the problem?

LakersMaster24
06-26-2011, 08:37 PM
are u a mod or a troll?

Whats the difference? :eyebrow:

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 08:39 PM
Wrong. Players are not demanding a biggest piece of the pie. We are going into a lockout bc the owners want to take away what the players already get.

For good reason, 22 out of 30 teams have lost money. If they were to just ignore these problems the NBA would be in serious trouble in the future. You would see at least a few teams not in the NBA anymore. The whole market would suffer and less people would be in the league. So for future players settling on the current players demand would be terrible.

The players right now don't give a crap about anyone but themselves. They don't want to lose any money, despite the fact that it would benefit the league and future players. Just greedy millionare aholes.

Azzacadabra
06-26-2011, 08:40 PM
Seriously pro players should shut the **** up about their salary....

Teachers
Doctors
Fire Fighters
Police Officers

Should be making more money then players period....

I wouldn't say teachers only because some of them only want to be in there for the free summer vacations. A lot of teachers slack off once they realize that teaching isn't what they dreamed out to be.

On topic: The only players that don't deserve are the ones who parade it with arrogance and an "I'm richer than you" mentality. A lot of players donate to charities or even form their own. Which is good in my book.

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 08:40 PM
Folks have a problem with how much the players make, but nobody complains about how much the owners make.

Most of the owners are losing money. So there you go.

Darrell Russell
06-26-2011, 08:41 PM
You're a moron, this has nothing to do with race.

You're a moron if you think it doesn't. Although people aren't as open with their racism as in the past, that doesn't mean it isn't a factor. People are just more sly with their racism nowadays.

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 08:43 PM
You're a moron if you think it doesn't. Although people aren't as open with their racism as in the past, that doesn't mean it isn't a factor. People are just more sly with their racism nowadays.

:facepalm: seriously don't pull the racist card. It doesn't even make sense in this case. Most of the owners are losing money every year.

Darrell Russell
06-26-2011, 08:50 PM
:facepalm: seriously don't pull the racist card. It doesn't even make sense in this case. Most of the owners are losing money every year.

The race factor comes in when people blame and get mad at the players who are mostly black and side with the billionaire white owners. The billionaire owners are losing money, so people think the millionaires should give money back to them? Seriously? It's clear that racism is a factor when people decide to side with billionaires over millionaires in a labor case.

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 08:53 PM
The race factor comes in when people blame and get mad at the players who are mostly black and side with the billionaire white owners. The billionaire owners are losing money, so people think the millionaires should give money back to them? Seriously? It's clear that racism is a factor when people decide to side with billionaires over millionaires in a labor case.

No they don't think that the millionares should give money back to them. But they do not see a point in running a business where you keep losing money every year.

A lot of billionares own teams as a hobby, knowing they will lose money. But its getting ridicilous and even billionares don't like to lose 40-50 million dollars a year. The players should be a little more open minded and realize that there is a serious problem and that the future of the league is at stake.

Darrell Russell
06-26-2011, 08:56 PM
No they don't think that the millionares should give money back to them. But they do not see a point in running a business where you keep losing money every year.


That is the point, they are losing money with their poor management and want the players to give money back. People are siding with the white billionaires who cant manage a company properly and want the mostly black players to give money back, like a bailout of some sort.


A lot of billionares own teams as a hobby, knowing they will lose money.

Lol and these are the guys people are siding with.


But its getting ridicilous and even billionares don't like to lose 40-50 million dollars a year.

Well maybe they shouldn't own teams as a "hobby" and should actually learn to run to team so it can be financially stable at least.


The players should be a little more open minded and realize that there is a serious problem and that the future of the league is at stake.


lol exactly, blaming the players for the owners bad management



..............

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 09:06 PM
..............

I agree, it is poor management, but the NBA as an organization has the right to re-negotiate these terms. Like any company, you as a worker don't really have many rights. It is pretty ridicilous that the NBA players have all these advantages over normal working people. I'm not talking about financial advantages, but the fact that they have "guaranteed contracts"

What a joke, in what workplace does this exist? The NBA as an organization has every right to change the rules according to what they want. In reality they shouldn't even have to be negotiating with the players.

"Lol and these are the guys people are siding with.""

They are not siding with them. The NBA as a whole wants to make money. Why would they want to keep losing money?



"""Well maybe they shouldn't own teams as a "hobby" and should actually learn to run to team so it can be financially stable at least."""

That is exactly what the hard cap will do. It will put restrictions on what the owners can do and how the overal league is managed, because right now it is out of control.

swirl54
06-26-2011, 09:08 PM
Folks have a problem with how much the players make, but nobody complains about how much the owners make.

THIS +1billion

KnicksR4Real
06-26-2011, 09:12 PM
Tired of jealous ppl complaining about how much money the players make.

very true:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Darrell Russell
06-26-2011, 09:14 PM
I agree, it is poor management, but the NBA as an organization has the right to re-negotiate these terms. Like any company, you as a worker don't really have many rights.

The players can negotiate their rights, they shouldn't be to blame for poor management. People who blame them most of the time have racist agendas


It is pretty ridicilous that the NBA players have all these advantages over normal working people.


Im sure an nba player can do about every job a normal person can do, but how many of those normal people can be an nba player? Exactly



I'm not talking about financial advantages, but the fact that they have "guaranteed contracts"

Even though they aren't 100% guaranteed, and some people have the same kind of contracts


What a joke, in what workplace does this exist?

Plus you can't compare it to normal workplaces, since this is a special job.

The NBA as an organization has every right to change the rules according to what they want.


So basically you believe in dictatorship? Good to know


In reality they shouldn't even have to be negotiating with the players.


Heil hitler

"Lol and these are the guys people are siding with.""

They are not siding with them. The NBA as a whole wants to make money. Why would they want to keep losing money?


They are siding with the owners if they agree players make too much and should give money back to BILLIONAIRES.




"""Well maybe they shouldn't own teams as a "hobby" and should actually learn to run to team so it can be financially stable at least."""

That is exactly what the hard cap will do. It will put restrictions on what the owners can do and how the overal league is managed, because right now it is out of control.

So the players should suffer because of the mismanagement and lack of caring from billionaires? You shouldn't rewards billionaires for their bad management, they are looking for a bailout.



...............

DodgerBulls
06-26-2011, 09:15 PM
Functions people, FUNCTION!

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 09:26 PM
...............

"" The players can negotiate their rights, they shouldn't be to blame for poor management. People who blame them most of the time have racist agendas""

You are just trying to find connections. Are you saying that the NHL lockout or NFL were racist oriented? No, because there was no majority of one race. Just because here they happen to be in NBA, doesn't make it anymore racist.

It's like the argument, that if i am a police officer and i arrest somebody who is a minority. Right away it must mean that it is racially motivated lol, what a joke.

"" Im sure an nba player can do about every job a normal person can do, but how many of those normal people can be an nba player? Exactly""

I'm pretty sure many NBA players could not do certain jobs. Not everybody can become an engineer, it still does take hard work. I'm pretty sure most NBA players cannot be doctors or lawyers.

Also, i'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Who cares if very few people could become NBA players. That doesn't make them anymore special than the rest of the population. In fact most other jobs have more of a purpose. NBA players purpose is simply to entertain. Whereas doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers make much more of a difference in society.

"" Even though they aren't 100% guaranteed, and some people have the same kind of contracts""

What people are those?

"" Plus you can't compare it to normal workplaces, since this is a special job.""

lol yes once again, special oh so special.

"" So basically you believe in dictatorship? Good to know""

That doesn't even make sense. Like at any other workplace, if you don't like your job then simply quit. Nobody is forcing NBA players to keep playing basketball, it is their choice.

"" They are siding with the owners if they agree players make too much and should give money back to BILLIONAIRES.""

No it is about re-negotiating the rules of the NBA. They want to create a better system where the league doesnt lose as much money.

imagesrdecievin
06-26-2011, 09:31 PM
If the owners are bleeding money as badly as they are trying to make it appear - then why isn't there 22 owners desperately trying to sell?

How come when franchises become available - how come there is always someone willing to buy?

Dash
06-26-2011, 09:33 PM
I hate when my subs say do what you want I still get paid.

shut the **** up.

Darrell Russell
06-26-2011, 09:45 PM
"" The players can negotiate their rights, they shouldn't be to blame for poor management. People who blame them most of the time have racist agendas""

You are just trying to find connections. Are you saying that the NHL lockout or NFL were racist oriented? No, because the majority of players were not racist. Just because here they happen to be, doesn't make it anymore racist.


Different situations and rhetoric spewed by "fans" of the respective sports. The nba is obviously the most black league, easily, and that is why david stern felt the need to put a dress code. Fans started seeing the players as "thugs", i wonder why?


It's like the argument, that if i am a police officer and i arrest somebody who is a minority. Right away it must mean that it is racially motivated lol, what a joke.

That isn't even remotely the same, jesus christ.


"" Im sure an nba player can do about every job a normal person can do, but how many of those normal people can be an nba player? Exactly""

I'm pretty sure many NBA players could not do certain jobs. Not everybody can become an engineer, it still does take hard work. I'm pretty sure most NBA players cannot be doctors or lawyers.



I wouldn't really consider doctors and lawyers to be "normal people". It is a special job, like the nba. Some doctors are millionaires as well as lawyers, so bad comparison.


Also, i'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Who cares if very few people could become NBA players. That doesn't make them anymore special than the rest of the population.


Yes it does, that's what being special is, only very few people can do what you can.

In fact most other jobs have more of a purpose. NBA players purpose is simply to entertain.


Without entertainment in today's society, most people would kill themselves from boredom.

Whereas doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers make much more of a difference in society.

okay



"" Even though they aren't 100% guaranteed, and some people have the same kind of contracts""

What people are those?

"" Plus you can't compare it to normal workplaces, since this is a special job.""

lol yes once again, special oh so special.


They are

"" So basically you believe in dictatorship? Good to know""

That doesn't even make sense. Like at any other workplace, if you don't like your job then simply quit. Nobody is forcing NBA players to keep playing basketball, it is their choice.

You stated "In reality they shouldn't even have to be negotiating with the players". That is a slave master's mentality, you want a dictatorship where nobody can question authority or have benefits, you can simply tell them what to do.



"" They are siding with the owners if they agree players make too much and should give money back to BILLIONAIRES.""

No it is about re-negotiating the rules of the NBA. They want to create a better system where the league doesnt lose as much money.

It isn't the system, it's the owners, they are the reason it is losing money. The players shouldn't have to give anything back to billionaires, the billionaires should learn how to manage a team properly.




....................

broncosfan4eva
06-26-2011, 10:03 PM
I agree players do need to make less money but if the players make less then the tickets should be sold for less also then

netsgiantsyanks
06-26-2011, 10:05 PM
Tired of jealous ppl complaining about how much money the players make.

its not even like that, he's just saying that these people are making millions of bucks and they're complaining that they're not making enough, when they're just egocentric a-holes who need to face the fact that they're lucky as **** to have what they have going for themselves

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 10:07 PM
....................

""Different situations and rhetoric spewed by "fans" of the respective sports. The nba is obviously the most black league, easily, and that is why david stern felt the need to put a dress code. Fans started seeing the players as "thugs", i wonder why?""

He put in the dress code to make players look more proffesional. Last time i checked the dress code is enforced on the black as well as the white players. At a normal work setting you are required to dress a certain way. These injured players are still representing the team and sitting on the bench, so it makes sense they adhere to a specific code.

"" That isn't even remotely the same, jesus christ."""

It pretty much is, because your logic goes like this "well majority of NBA players are black, so this issue must be racist"

"" I wouldn't really consider doctors and lawyers to be "normal people". It is a special job, like the nba. Some doctors are millionaires as well as lawyers, so bad comparison.""

Fine, it's not a regular job. I would still argue that most people could become doctors and lawyers given that they have the work ethic and willingness to give up a lot of time.

"" Yes it does, that's what being special is, only very few people can do what you can.""

Being special can also mean making a profound difference that not everybody does.

"" Without entertainment in today's society, most people would kill themselves from boredom.""

As much as i am a fan of the NBA, i'm pretty sure we would all survive. Hey, maybe people would take up reading instead of watching so much television, OH wouldn't that be destructive!!

""" You stated "In reality they shouldn't even have to be negotiating with the players". That is a slave master's mentality, you want a dictatorship where nobody can question authority or have benefits, you can simply tell them what to do."""

No i don't want that, i can understand them questioning these things. I'm just saying that they should be a little more open minded and relialize that at the end of the day it is not all about them. It is about the future of the league.

But like i said before they shouldn't have all these benefits and rights that regular people at normal work settings do not. Your response to this is that "well they are special" Regardless of how few make it into the NBA, it doesn't mean they should have anymore priveleges when it comes to rights as workers.


"" It isn't the system, it's the owners, they are the reason it is losing money. The players shouldn't have to give anything back to billionaires, the billionaires should learn how to manage a team properly."""

At this point, if nothing is done the NBA is in serious trouble. There will be less teams in the future and thus less players in the NBA. Fewer people will get into the league. If this goes on, its possible that the NBA could go completly broke. But its apparent that the players do not give a crap about the future of the league, as long as they can finish their contracts and collect their money for retirement.

Heater4life
06-26-2011, 10:21 PM
its not even like that, he's just saying that these people are making millions of bucks and they're complaining that they're not making enough, when they're just egocentric a-holes who need to face the fact that they're lucky as **** to have what they have going for themselves

Technically speaking, there not complaining there actually willing to take a minor pay cut according to most news regarding CBA negotiations.

Whats even funnier, people choose to call them egocentric a-holes because they make millions of dollars and want to defend that right? A right which is justified solely because fans like yourself pay to watch the players play a sport.

Now what, just because they make millions they should be willing to give them up? LMAO!

There not lucky, there skilled. Just like an attorney, surgeon, actor, agent, etc.... And they want to get payed accordingly.

Darrell Russell
06-26-2011, 10:21 PM
""Different situations and rhetoric spewed by "fans" of the respective sports. The nba is obviously the most black league, easily, and that is why david stern felt the need to put a dress code. Fans started seeing the players as "thugs", i wonder why?""

He put in the dress code to make players look more proffesional. Last time i checked the dress code is enforced on the black as well as the white players. At a normal work setting you are required to dress a certain way. These injured players are still representing the team and sitting on the bench, so it makes sense they adhere to a specific code.



No he put in the dress code because of the "hip hop culture" the black players were "portraying", and people started to refer to them as thugs. Once again, you keep bringing up normal work setting, nba is not that, they are special.

"" That isn't even remotely the same, jesus christ."""

It pretty much is, because your logic goes like this "well majority of NBA players are black, so this issue must be racist"

No it is based on racism because not only is it mostly black players, they are the faces of the league and in the past years before the dress code a lot of them were referred to as thugs, i wonder why? Calling black men "thugs" is a code word for calling them "******s", but the latter isn't acceptable in the mainstream anymore. People were apprehensive towards black players just by how they wore their hair and they clothes, that isn't based on racism?


"" I wouldn't really consider doctors and lawyers to be "normal people". It is a special job, like the nba. Some doctors are millionaires as well as lawyers, so bad comparison.""

Fine, it's not a regular job. I would still argue that most people could become doctors and lawyers given that they have the work ethic and willingness to give up a lot of time.



Exactly, it is more likely they could become those things than become an nba player, which is why being an nba player means you are special which is what i said.

"" Yes it does, that's what being special is, only very few people can do what you can.""

Being special can also mean making a profound difference that not everybody does.

Apparently sports makes a huge difference on people's lives. You're posting on a sports forum right now.


"" Without entertainment in today's society, most people would kill themselves from boredom.""

As much as i am a fan of the NBA, i'm pretty sure we would all survive. Hey, maybe people would take up reading instead of watching so much television, OH wouldn't that be destructive!!


You just typed that on a sports forum in the nba section


""" You stated "In reality they shouldn't even have to be negotiating with the players". That is a slave master's mentality, you want a dictatorship where nobody can question authority or have benefits, you can simply tell them what to do."""

No i don't want that, i can understand them questioning these things. I'm just saying that they should be a little more open minded and relialize that at the end of the day it is not all about them. It is about the future of the league.


That is what you want because if your statement became true then that's what we would have. The players shouldn't have to be open minded about fixing a problem that isn't their fault. The future of the league , if it is in jeopardy, is because of the incompetence of owners who only own teams as a "hobby".


But like i said before they shouldn't have all these benefits and rights that regular people at normal work settings do not. Your response to this is that "well they are special" Regardless of how few make it into the NBA, it doesn't mean they should have anymore priveleges when it comes to rights as workers.


They are special, they are the job. Everybody doesn't get treated the same, get over it ,some people get privileges in life, others dont.

"" It isn't the system, it's the owners, they are the reason it is losing money. The players shouldn't have to give anything back to billionaires, the billionaires should learn how to manage a team properly."""

At this point, if nothing is done the NBA is in serious trouble. There will be less teams in the future and thus less players in the NBA. Fewer people will get into the league. If this goes on, its possible that the NBA could go completly broke.

It is the owners fault, 100%, not the players.


But its apparent that the players do not give a crap about the future of the league, as long as they can finish their contracts and collect their money for retirement.


Lol so now the millionaire players are selfish and you're defending the billionaires smh.



You already proposed the players basically give back money to billionaires, then complain that players want to collect money and dont care.

Heater4life
06-26-2011, 10:29 PM
What the owners are proposing is like saying your boss wants to cut your $40k salary down to a $32.8K salary. Now lets say you do your research, your comoany is losing money, but wait, company sales are at all time highs?

95% of you would say "Why the Fu-- should i take a $7,000 dollar pay cut when I have X skills and have been working here for Y years. Ill find another job!"

Same thing the players are doing. And dont give me the "there millionaires" b.s. They have skills none of us do and are fighting for what they feel they deserve in salary.

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 10:38 PM
What the owners are proposing is like saying your boss wants to cut your $40k salary down to a $32.8K salary. Now lets say you do your research, your comoany is losing money, but wait, company sales are at all time highs?

But NBA is not making money. Most teams are losing money.




95% of you would say "Why the Fu-- should i take a $7,000 dollar pay cut when I have X skills and have been working here for Y years. Ill find another job!"

Exactly, so why don't they find another job if they don't like the terms of the one they have??


Same thing the players are doing. And dont give me the "there millionaires" b.s. They have skills none of us do and are fighting for what they feel they deserve in salary.

They are fighting for themselves. I agree that very few people are willing to let money go, despite the fact that it would be better for the future of the league and a lot of other people. Think about it, the less players in the NBA the less people that are in it, therefore less people prosper.

Darrell Russell
06-26-2011, 10:42 PM
But NBA is not making money. Most teams are losing money.


Owners fault


Exactly, so why don't they find another job if they don't like the terms of the one they have??

If the owners are losing so much money, why don't they sell their teams? See how that goes both ways?

They are fighting for themselves. I agree that very few people are willing to let money go, despite the fact that it would be better for the future of the league and a lot of other people.

Better for the billionaires to make more money

Think about it, the less players in the NBA the less people that are in it, therefore less people prosper.

Which would be solely on the owners.


............

South Sided
06-26-2011, 10:48 PM
i don't think he is being jealous. from the looks of it he is just saying that they are getting paid well and he doesn't like that fact that they are complaining about the millions they already make.(that is why we are about to be in a lockout btw.)

:facepalm:A Lockout have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do w/ players complaining about how much money they make. Its about the owners wanting to pay them less due to mis-management of their funds, projections, & salaries. The owners are locking the players out & trying to force a renegotiation of a contract THEY AGREED TO. Learn more about something before creating this wack thread.

NBA_Starter
06-26-2011, 10:48 PM
It sucks but its happened for a long time!

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 10:53 PM
You already proposed the players basically give back money to billionaires, then complain that players want to collect money and dont care.


""" No he put in the dress code because of the "hip hop culture" the black players were "portraying", and people started to refer to them as thugs. Once again, you keep bringing up normal work setting, nba is not that, they are special."""

There is no proof that the majority of people thought that. Yes some did, others did not care. I don't particularly remember Stern reffering to the players as "thugs" or anybody else in the NBA. He wanted them to dress in a more proffesional manner and so he implemented a new dress code.

It's funny how these players complain about every single thing. If i was to complain about a dress code in a work setting i would be either told to A) shut up or B) threatened to be fired. These guys act as if anything that might be an inconvenience to them is unjust.


"""" No it is based on racism because not only is it mostly black players, they are the faces of the league and in the past years before the dress code a lot of them were referred to as thugs, i wonder why? Calling black men "thugs" is a code word for calling them "******s", but the latter isn't acceptable in the mainstream anymore. People were apprehensive towards black players just by how they wore their hair and they clothes, that isn't based on racism?""""

Once again i don't remember anybody in the NBA calling them thugs. That was simply the opinion of some morons who watch.

Also, i don't think complaining about how players dress is inherently racist. If i went to work dressed like a "goth" i would probably be fired or told to change. You have to understand that the NBA is a private corporation, it is not a public place where you can wear whatever you want and say whatever you want.

""" Exactly, it is more likely they could become those things than become an nba player, which is why being an nba player means you are special which is what i said."""

Ok so its special because only few can make it in there, while many desire to. Ok i get that, but that doesn't mean it should be functioned any differently from any other corporation.

""" Apparently sports makes a huge difference on people's lives. You're posting on a sports forum right now.
You just typed that on a sports forum in the nba section """"

Yes and i would say that i am probably not being very constructive. My point is that at the end of the day it wouldn't ruin anybodys life. People would do other things, probably more constructive things.

"""" That is what you want because if your statement became true then that's what we would have. The players shouldn't have to be open minded about fixing a problem that isn't their fault. The future of the league , if it is in jeopardy, is because of the incompetence of owners who only own teams as a "hobby""""

Yes it is the owners fault. But at this point the only way that can be fixed is if the players agree on certain things.

As with anything in life, something might not be parcticularly my fault but knowing i can fix it by giving up certain things might still be a good decision.

Not to go too off point, but the condition of the third world isn't my fault. Does that mean i shouldn't give money to charity or raise awareness? Or do anything to help change matters.

""" It is the owners fault, 100%, not the players.
Lol so now the millionaire players are selfish and you're defending the billionaires smh. """

I'm not defending the owners. I agree that it is their fault. But if the players agree to give up certain things it would benefit the future of the league.

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 10:57 PM
............

""" If the owners are losing so much money, why don't they sell their teams? See how that goes both ways? """

I imagine it would be pretty difficult to find people willing to buy these teams now. In the past decade quite a lot of teams have moved around, but its going to become much more difficult with the direction that the NBA is heading into now.

""" Better for the billionaires to make more money ""


Think about it this way. If five teams no longer exist, that would mean about at least 70 less players. Therefore there would be less players prospering, not as many would be entering the league or employed by the NBA.

Heater4life
06-26-2011, 10:57 PM
A)But NBA is not making money. Most teams are losing money.


B)Exactly, so why don't they find another job if they don't like the terms of the one they have??


C)They are fighting for themselves. I agree that very few people are willing to let money go, despite the fact that it would be better for the future of the league and a lot of other people. Think about it, the less players in the NBA the less people that are in it, therefore less people prosper.

A) The NBA is losing money, but ratings are higher than they've been in a very long time. So if you you read my post carfully the question remains the same. Would you give up YOUR earned money solely because your company is mis-managing assets???

B) They do like the terms of the one they have, thats why the problem exits, because the owners want to cut the players salary by 18%.

They dont find another job because 1) The owners would take a much greater hit than any single player if there wasnt a NBA. 2) They like the idea of playing within there own country (most) 3) Theres no reason to leave when there can be a justified resolution (like taking a 3% paycut WHICH THEY OFFERED TO) 3) They make good money, why not talk out the difference?

C) Other people prospering? What are charities for? The day I graduate from Med school the only people i give a damn about is my family and the occasional charity for the real needy. Now the players have to care about everyone else? Give me a break. Thats like saying lotto winners shouls divide their winnings within the populus, just because they can.

JIDsanity
06-26-2011, 11:02 PM
Wrong. Players are not demanding a biggest piece of the pie. We are going into a lockout bc the owners want to take away what the players already get.

:confused:

John Walls Era
06-26-2011, 11:04 PM
I don't mind the whining. I'm tired of the owners being cheap.

JIDsanity
06-26-2011, 11:08 PM
The NBA is going into a lockout, because both sides are concerned with their best interest. Its wrong to jump on one side and place the blame on them.

JIDsanity
06-26-2011, 11:10 PM
I don't mind the whining. I'm tired of the owners being cheap.

What part of dishing out millions of dollars to fund player salaries, team operations, and maintenance is cheap?

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 11:12 PM
A) The NBA is losing money, but ratings are higher than they've been in a very long time. So if you you read my post carfully the question remains the same. Would you give up YOUR earned money solely because your company is mis-managing assets???

If giving up money meant that less jobs would be cut and more people would stay employed then i would (depending on specific circumstances of course)



B) They do like the terms of the one they have, thats why the problem exits, because the owners want to cut the players salary by 18%.

I meant the terms being made. Companies make ****** terms on workers all the time in the real world, it's really not that uncommon. In this case, it isn't that ****** because the players would still be millionares, im sure they will survive.


They dont find another job because 1) The owners would take a much greater hit than any single player if there wasnt a NBA.

Nonsense, most owners are losing millions of dollars a year. A couple of owners have tried selling their teams in the last few years but had difficulty finding buyers. The Indiana Pacers come to mind.


They like the idea of playing within there own country (most) 3) Theres no reason to leave when there can be a justified resolution (like taking a 3% paycut WHICH THEY OFFERED TO) 3) They make good money, why not talk out the difference?


They can talk out the difference, sure. This thread is just an opinion piece on the players demands so far and lack of reasoning.


C) Other people prospering? What are charities for? The day I graduate from Med school the only people i give a damn about is my family and the occasional charity for the real needy. Now the players have to care about everyone else? Give me a break. Thats like saying lotto winners shouls divide their winnings within the populus, just because they can.

You have totally missed my point. I never said the players should share their wealth with the rest of the population. I was simply saying that they should think more about the future of the league and the players. Why is it so wrong to suggest such a thing?

Heater4life
06-26-2011, 11:17 PM
If giving up money meant that less jobs would be cut and more people would stay employed then i would (depending on specific circumstances of course)


You have totally missed my point. I never said the players should share their wealth with the rest of the population. I was simply saying that they should think more about the future of the league and the players. Why is it so wrong to suggest such a thing?

Contradiction A

Byronicle
06-26-2011, 11:17 PM
they do make a ridiculous amount of money but they are entertainers and we are paying them really to entertain us.

in the lockout situation it sounds like its the owners that are being greedy turd sandwiches

JIDsanity
06-26-2011, 11:18 PM
Wrong. Players are not demanding a biggest piece of the pie. We are going into a lockout bc the owners want to take away what the players already get.

This isn't clear. Are you suggesting that the league has some sort of vendetta against the players?

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 11:18 PM
Contradiction A

lol but i'm not sharing my wealth. It's not like the money i give up goes directly to those people. They have their own salaries. My actions are simply ensuring they stay employed.

Heater4life
06-26-2011, 11:20 PM
I meant the terms being made. Companies make ****** terms on workers all the time in the real world, it's really not that uncommon. In this case, it isn't that ****** because the players would still be millionares, im sure they will survive.






Contradiction B

Your saying workers get screwed all the time, but you want the players to agree with being screwed solely on the basis that they make more money than the average joe.

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 11:22 PM
Contradiction B

Your saying workers get screwed all the time, but you want the players to agree with being screwed solely on the basis that they make more money than the average joe.

How is this actually a contradiction? I agreed that it was the owners fault. But like i said, just because something is not your fault, is it wrong for you to try and make it better by giving up certain things??

It doesn't mean i want them to get screwed. I wouldn't find it wrong for the average joe to give up something to help someone else either.

Heater4life
06-26-2011, 11:23 PM
lol but i'm not sharing my wealth. It's not like the money i give up goes directly to those people. They have their own salaries. My actions are simply ensuring they stay employed.

Are you reading what your posting????????????

If there employed because of me then my money is going to them, its doesnt matter if it trickles down from the owners pocket, to the Gm, to the stadium announcer, then to the pizza boy. Its still MY MONEY insuring THERE salary.

clutchski
06-26-2011, 11:24 PM
For good reason, 22 out of 30 teams have lost money. If they were to just ignore these problems the NBA would be in serious trouble in the future. You would see at least a few teams not in the NBA anymore. The whole market would suffer and less people would be in the league. So for future players settling on the current players demand would be terrible.

The players right now don't give a crap about anyone but themselves. They don't want to lose any money, despite the fact that it would benefit the league and future players. Just greedy millionare aholes.

My thoughts exactly. I'm surprised the players haven't already come to some sort of agreement seeming the majority of owners are losing money. The owners are the ones paying them anyways. I think many players are being greedy mother****ers.

Big corporate owners can be as well, but not if they're losing money.

C-ross12
06-26-2011, 11:28 PM
People... Lets think this over. First off.. NBA players are contracted players. Two sides agree on a set amount of money. They dont have to sign a contract if they dont want to.

Owners own teams. Thats what they do. Lets say one of you guys own a hardware store. Would you want some random people telling you you have to lower your prices because they "aren't fair"? No, screw that. People need to stop grudging against owners because they have money. A player will get exactly what hes worth. Joe Johnson got a max because someone somewhere thought he deserved it, period.

It all works out in the end. Its capitalism.

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 11:29 PM
Are you reading what your posting????????????

If there employed because of me then my money is going to them, its doesnt matter if it trickles down from the owners pocket, to the Gm, to the stadium announcer, then to the pizza boy. Its still MY MONEY insuring THERE salary.

What if more money is being generated as a result of your actions? Is it still your money?

In this case, that would be exactly what would happen. Players would give up some of their wealth and the league would function better. More players would be employed and more money would be generated than the amount given up by the players.

knicksfan42
06-26-2011, 11:29 PM
nobody complains about how much the owners make.

Right, because they lose, yes as a whole the NBA has lost money and only 8 owners have actually made money last season. So whats to complain about if the owners, for the most part, are losing money.

Heater4life
06-26-2011, 11:29 PM
How is this actually a contradiction? I agreed that it was the owners fault. But like i said, just because something is not your fault, is it wrong for you to try and make it better by giving up certain things??

It doesn't mean i want them to get screwed. I wouldn't find it wrong for the average joe to give up something to help someone else either.

Ill end this how i see fit. I wont give up my salary because my boss does not know how to manage his money. I wont give it up because Bob the janitor is going to lose his job. Im going to insure my value, my salary, my family, and my lifestyle above anything else. I dont need to bend over just because i make X amount of money more than most people. Give back? Thats why i give to people who need with ailments, there called charities. Everyone with 2 arms and legs, bust your *** and make it somewhere!

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 11:32 PM
People... Lets think this over. First off.. NBA players are contracted players. Two sides agree on a set amount of money. They dont have to sign a contract if they dont want to.

Owners own teams. Thats what they do. Lets say one of you guys own a hardware store. Would you want some random people telling you you have to lower your prices because they "aren't fair"? No, screw that. People need to stop grudging against owners because they have money. A player will get exactly what hes worth. Joe Johnson got a max because someone somewhere thought he deserved it, period.

It all works out in the end. Its capitalism.

lol the players do not own the NBA. The NBA is its own corporation and the players are just employees. The better analogy would be "if you owned a hardware store, should you be able to lower the workers hourly wage" The answer is, of course you should.

JIDsanity
06-26-2011, 11:32 PM
People... Lets think this over. First off.. NBA players are contracted players. Two sides agree on a set amount of money. They dont have to sign a contract if they dont want to.

Owners own teams. Thats what they do. Lets say one of you guys own a hardware store. Would you want some random people telling you you have to lower your prices because they "aren't fair"? No, screw that. People need to stop grudging against owners because they have money. A player will get exactly what hes worth. Joe Johnson got a max because someone somewhere thought he deserved it, period.

It all works out in the end. Its capitalism.

I agree. If an owner decides to give out a few bad contracts, and overpay players that's their own fault.

Heater4life
06-26-2011, 11:35 PM
What if more money is being generated as a result of your actions? Is it still your money? In this case, that would be exactly what would happen. Players would give up some of their wealth and the league would function better. More players would be employed and more money would be generated than the amount given up by the players.

Your still taking it out my pocket!

And your assuming the NBA would be better A) Where do you get extra jobs from? I dont see the league expanding. B) Not all teams are losing money. Its a specific group pulling down MAJOR losses. What makes you think they wont mismanage the extra money on multi-million dollar arena debts for example? You cant guarantee that.

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 11:36 PM
Ill end this how i see fit. I wont give up my salary because my boss does not know how to manage his money. I wont give it up because Bob the janitor is going to lose his job. Im going to insure my value, my salary, my family, and my lifestyle above anything else. I dont need to bend over just because i make X amount of money more than most people. Give back? Thats why i give to people who need with ailments, there called charities. Everyone with 2 arms and legs, bust your *** and make it somewhere!

That kind of thinking is exactly what is wrong with the world. The reason why we have all these luxaries in the West is because people are being exploited in the third world. It is not just because of our hard work and effort. I really do not want to get all political, because it is off point but that is a ridicilous.

JIDsanity
06-26-2011, 11:39 PM
Ill end this how i see fit. I wont give up my salary because my boss does not know how to manage his money. I wont give it up because Bob the janitor is going to lose his job. Im going to insure my value, my salary, my family, and my lifestyle above anything else. I dont need to bend over just because i make X amount of money more than most people. Give back? Thats why i give to people who need with ailments, there called charities. Everyone with 2 arms and legs, bust your *** and make it somewhere!

This is why the current system needs to be changed. If every player continues to look for their own best interest, won't owners continue to lose money? How does that secure a league for the future?

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 11:40 PM
this is why the current system needs to be changed. If every player continues to look for their own best interest, won't owners continue to lose money? How does that secure a league for the future?

+1

Heater4life
06-26-2011, 11:40 PM
lol the players do not own the NBA. The NBA is its own corporation and the players are just employees. The better analogy would be "if you owned a hardware store, should you be able to lower the workers hourly wage" The answer is, of course you should.

Lets use a better analogy. You own an Opera house, i am your main attraction, i draw YOUR revenue. Ticket sales are great, ratings and reviews are fantastic. But your losing money.

Now you have to make cuts. If you cut me, you lose your business. If you want to cut a major portion of my salary, im gone and your done either way.

Now you know what you have to do, actually sit down like a smart owner and calculate expenses, cut costs from stupid investments, and actually manage your money.

knicksfan42
06-26-2011, 11:43 PM
Ill end this how i see fit. I wont give up my salary because my boss does not know how to manage his money. I wont give it up because Bob the janitor is going to lose his job. Im going to insure my value, my salary, my family, and my lifestyle above anything else. I dont need to bend over just because i make X amount of money more than most people.


In the end your boss will shut down the business, because its not making any profit and is instead losing money. Your boss has other more lucrative ventures which generate massive profits so shutting down the business at which you work wont hurt him one bit. You on the other hand are out of a job and the only people willing to hire you are going to pay a dismal fraction of what your old boss paid you (and was willing to still pay you with a salary cut).

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 11:43 PM
Your still taking it out my pocket!

lol then stop working for me.


And your assuming the NBA would be better A) Where do you get extra jobs from? I dont see the league expanding. B) Not all teams are losing money. Its a specific group pulling down MAJOR losses. What makes you think they wont mismanage the extra money on multi-million dollar arena debts for example? You cant guarantee that.

A) if the NBA continues under the current aggrement, several teams will be cut. Therefore there will be less players in the league. Also having a more financially profitable league would mean higher chance of league expansion

B) Most teams are losing money 22/30. Several team owners have tried selling their teams in the last few years, or have considered the possibility.

C) If they set a hard cap as well as other restrictions it would be much harder for the owners to **** up their teams. I imagine with a hard cap that prevents them from spending, these teams financially would be well off.

JIDsanity
06-26-2011, 11:47 PM
Lets use a better analogy. You own an Opera house, i am your main attraction, i draw YOUR revenue. Ticket sales are great, ratings and reviews are fantastic. But your losing money.

Now you have to make cuts. If you cut me, you lose your business. If you want to cut a major portion of my salary, im gone and your done either way.

Now you know what you have to do, actually sit down like a smart owner and calculate expenses, cut costs from stupid investments, and actually manage your money.

But the difference in the NBA is that the players are the investments. Without ownership they are nothing. If ownership decides to cut player salaries it is in the players interest to negotiate with ownership. I am not saying the current proposal by owners should stick, but the current system should most certainly not.

Heater4life
06-26-2011, 11:47 PM
This is why the current system needs to be changed. If every player continues to look for their own best interest, won't owners continue to lose money? How does that secure a league for the future?

And why did the owners invest in the first place? They were looking in their best interests, and were looking to turn a profit.

The issue comes with overpriced tickets which equals less sales. Expensive investments. Constant stadium renovations. And the list goes on and on.

Im not saying the players shouldnt take any cut but 3-7% is more than reasonable. 18%????? GTFO of here.

llemon
06-26-2011, 11:47 PM
In the end your boss will shut down the business, because its not making any profit and is instead losing money. Your boss has other more lucrative ventures which generate massive profits so shutting down the business at which you work wont hurt him one bit. You on the other hand are out of a job and the only people willing to hire you are going to pay a dismal fraction of what your old boss paid you (and was willing to still pay you with a salary cut).

Life can suck sometimes.

But then there is still the 'vestful of grenades' option.

JIDsanity
06-26-2011, 11:50 PM
And why did the owners invest in the first place? They were looking in their best interests, and were looking to turn a profit.

The issue comes with overpriced tickets which equals less sales. Expensive investments. Constant stadium renovations. And the list goes on and on.

Im not saying the players shouldnt take any cut but 3-7% is more than reasonable. 18%????? GTFO of here.

Right, but owners best interest benefits players. It doesn't work the other way around.

Heater4life
06-26-2011, 11:50 PM
But the difference in the NBA is that the players are the investments. Without ownership they are nothing. If ownership decides to cut player salaries it is in the players interest to negotiate with ownership. I am not saying the current proposal by owners should stick, but the current system should most certainly not.

Agree. But most here are proposing that the players agree to a royal shafting in terms of lost wages solely on the basis of there large paychecks.

JIDsanity
06-26-2011, 11:52 PM
Agree. But most here are proposing that the players agree to a royal shafting in terms of lost wages solely on the basis of there large paychecks.

Yeah. I agree with you on that. That just won't work.

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 11:52 PM
Lets use a better analogy. You own an Opera house, i am your main attraction, i draw YOUR revenue. Ticket sales are great, ratings and reviews are fantastic. But your losing money.

Now you have to make cuts. If you cut me, you lose your business. If you want to cut a major portion of my salary, im gone and your done either way.

Now you know what you have to do, actually sit down like a smart owner and calculate expenses, cut costs from stupid investments, and actually manage your money.

If i have enough money, i could start another company, but you would be out of a job.

knicksfan42
06-26-2011, 11:53 PM
Lets use a better analogy. You own an Opera house, i am your main attraction, i draw YOUR revenue. Ticket sales are great, ratings and reviews are fantastic. But your losing money.

Now you have to make cuts. If you cut me, you lose your business. If you want to cut a major portion of my salary, im gone and your done either way.

Lets improve this analogy. Everything is as it stands, but your employer owns numerous businesses besides opera house, all making him massive amounts of money. The opera house in which you are the main attraction is losing huge amounts of money. If he cuts you, he loses the opera house and stops losing money from that venue. So by cutting you and the opera house he is now making more money.



Now you know what you have to do, actually sit down like a smart owner and calculate expenses, cut costs from stupid investments, and actually manage your money.

Yep, you do that and realize the opera house is a stupid investment which is not only not breaking even or making a small profit (which would be reason enough to close it down), but is actually losing money, so you close it down and become richer.

kenzo400
06-26-2011, 11:55 PM
Life can suck sometimes.

But then there is still the 'vestful of grenades' option.

Or there is the bettter option. You spend some money on high tech missiles, press a few buttons, destroy a few villages and then take their land. You can set up business there and prosper.

Heater4life
06-27-2011, 12:00 AM
.

Lets improve this analogy. Everything is as it stands, but your employer owns numerous businesses besides opera house, all making him massive amounts of money. The opera house in which you are the main attraction is losing huge amounts of money. If he cuts you, he loses the opera house and stops losing money from that venue. So by cutting you and the opera house he is now making more money.




Yep, you do that and realize the opera house is a stupid investment which is not only not breaking even or making a small profit (which would be reason enough to close it down), but is actually losing money, so you close it down and become richer.

And the only reason they dont do it, is because they cant! If they could, they would.

If they dont come to an any agreement they lose their ENTIRE investment.

Like if the owners care about the players.

kenzo400
06-27-2011, 12:05 AM
And the only reason they dont do it, is because they cant! If they could, they would.

If they dont come to an any agreement they lose their ENTIRE investment.

Like if the owners care about the players.

Most of them are losing millions of dollars a year. Their investment has allready failed a long time ago. Their hope is that it will eventually pay off. But under the current conditions i don't see that happening, so im sure many of them will decide to just leave.

I'm sure the players don't care about the owners either.

knicksfan42
06-27-2011, 12:11 AM
And the only reason they dont do it, is because they cant! If they could, they would.

Why can't they? Is their a time limit for how long a lockout can continue?




If they don't come to an any agreement they lose their ENTIRE investment.


So what, if the investment is losing them money why not lose it. They obviously have other investments which are extremely profitable.

Heater4life
06-27-2011, 12:13 AM
Most of them are losing millions of dollars a year. Their investment has allready failed a long time ago. Their hope is that it will eventually pay off. But under the current conditions i don't see that happening, so im sure many of them will decide to just leave.

I'm sure the players don't care about the owners either.

No. Losing 10M, 20M per year does not compare to losing a 300M NBA franchise.

bringinwood
06-27-2011, 12:18 AM
What I get tired of is hearing how players make too much money...

What most fans dont understand is that players use the media for publicity...

Do you really think they would spend hours upon hours a week talking to the media if it didn't benefit them ???

Is Ron Artest worth 5 MM a year ???

Was Shaq worth a 2 year contract ???

Supply and demand people... Supply and demand...

You demand it, they supply it...

Quit complaining about the contracts that you fans created...

Heater4life
06-27-2011, 12:18 AM
Why can't they? Is their a time limit for how long a lockout can continue?





So what, if the investment is losing them money why not lose it. They obviously have other investments which are extremely profitable.

They cant because in order to "cut there losses with the Opera house" they would have to sell it. Which no one will buy if there is no NBA.

Secondly, no reasonable business man/women, would take all those losses AND lose their original investment (X amount of money they paid to own the team)

llemon
06-27-2011, 12:20 AM
Right, but owners best interest benefits players. It doesn't work the other way around.

Say WHA???????????????

knicksfan42
06-27-2011, 12:24 AM
They cant because in order to "cut there losses with the Opera house" they would have to sell it. Which no one will buy if there is no NBA.

No without the NBA the opera house would cease to exist (the owner can close it down instead of selling).


Secondly, no reasonable business man/women, would take all those losses AND lose their original investment (X amount of money they paid to own the team)

Right, but they would stop taking losses by losing their original investment.

kenzo400
06-27-2011, 12:26 AM
No. Losing 10M, 20M per year does not compare to losing a 300M NBA franchise.

Over time it adds up. You don't spend 300 million dollars on a business to end up losing another hundred million in 5 years.

sep11ie
06-27-2011, 12:33 AM
I'm tired not having any milk when I just poured a bowl of cereal.
I'm tired of people pronouncing ASAP like it's a word.
I'm tired of watching this ****ing Justin Bieber movie with my girl# daughter.
I have my own problems to worry about, and worrying about how much money a NBA player makes isn't one.
I'm tired of this post and thread, bye.

barreleffact
06-27-2011, 12:40 AM
2 questions:
1- How do we know the owners are losing money without viewing their books? How can we say which teams are losing and how much they are losing based solely off estimations? I hate to see people assume the teams are losing 20M per year based off an article. Unless Stern or the owner said it himself, why believe it? Even then you would have to speculate.

2- Would removing a few teams really be such a bad thing? It would increase talent per team. The teams that lose money won't have to worry about losses anymore. Location is a principle business aspect. If your location sucks, you did a poor analysis. Translation- get out of these smaller cities and move, close, or manage your funds adequately.

LakersIn5
06-27-2011, 02:34 AM
For the owners then dont offer what you cant pay dumbasses!

broncosfan4eva
06-27-2011, 03:29 AM
A) The NBA is losing money, but ratings are higher than they've been in a very long time. So if you you read my post carfully the question remains the same. Would you give up YOUR earned money solely because your company is mis-managing assets???

B) They do like the terms of the one they have, thats why the problem exits, because the owners want to cut the players salary by 18%.

They dont find another job because 1) The owners would take a much greater hit than any single player if there wasnt a NBA. 2) They like the idea of playing within there own country (most) 3) Theres no reason to leave when there can be a justified resolution (like taking a 3% paycut WHICH THEY OFFERED TO) 3) They make good money, why not talk out the difference?

C) Other people prospering? What are charities for? The day I graduate from Med school the only people i give a damn about is my family and the occasional charity for the real needy. Now the players have to care about everyone else? Give me a break. Thats like saying lotto winners shouls divide their winnings within the populus, just because they can.

You are a moron.

broncosfan4eva
06-27-2011, 03:31 AM
I'm tired not having any milk when I just poured a bowl of cereal.
I'm tired of people pronouncing ASAP like it's a word.
I'm tired of watching this ****ing Justin Bieber movie with my girl# daughter.
I have my own problems to worry about, and worrying about how much money a NBA player makes isn't one.
I'm tired of this post and thread, bye.

Sounds like a personal problem bro.

barreleffact
06-27-2011, 04:02 AM
You are a moron.

He is a moron, but he spoke of attending med school. What presidential job do you do that allows you to judge others? What is your educational background, or are you basically calling yourself a ******.

Aside from that did he say anything that was not factual? His points are valid. If you perceive them to be incorrect how about debating with actual counter arguments because solely attacking the person is proof you have no basis or an argument and thus have already given up the fight. It just proves that you are too pig headed and closed minded to perceive matters objectively. Or am I wrong? :rolleyes:

PHX2daDEATH
06-27-2011, 04:08 AM
92 million dollar contract in Jerome James' face do you really expect him not to sign it?! its the owners fault just as much as the players..its like offering illegal immigrants jobs, who's swinging the carrot in the face of these players? Who got themselves into the mess...

Cubby
06-27-2011, 04:14 AM
Well look at the players, the demographic, then look at the owners. one= mostly black while the other is 90% or more white. It's pretty easy to see who people would attack first when they have a choice between the two.

Oh shut up. It has nothing to do with race. It's people like you who look way too into things that even start with race issues.

barreleffact
06-27-2011, 04:16 AM
Oh shut up. It has nothing to do with race. It's people like you who look way too into things that even start with race issues.

While I disagree that this is a largely racist matter, I will say "Racism's still alive. They just be concealing it."- Kanye West.

Cubby
06-27-2011, 04:26 AM
Of course it is still alive. But to say the lockout is racially motivated is just ********.

barreleffact
06-27-2011, 04:27 AM
^Counterargument. MLB players make just as much as NBA players for an arguably less popular sport. Stadiums are rarely full. It's boring to watch for many. The arguments could go on and on for basketball being a favored sport. Do people complain about baseball players salaries at all? If they do, do they complain about it NEARLY as much as basketball? Observing it objectively you MUST see there is a hint of racism in there if baseball players DONT make too much to the majority of people. Or is baseball just an afterthought for you?

Again, "Racism's still alive. They just be concealing it."- Kanye West
Further, they have programmed you to believe it's a non-factor

Edit: No one has said the lockout is racially motivated. They have said the perception from fans is racially motivated to suggest that millionaires should make less, but Billionaires should make more. It is a business, but they placed the thorn in their paw themselves. That alone means the current system, in which the players make half of the revenue THEY draw in, is in truth NOT flawed.

Cubby
06-27-2011, 04:33 AM
I still believe it has nothing to do with race. Why didn't race have anything to do with sports like football, which is a sport that could be argued is dominated by black people? None of this is racist. It just doesn't make any sense to me. I think it's just an excuse for people who side with players in lockouts. I don't choose a side. I just want it to end so I can watch the NBA. Bottom line is that the owners are losing money and players already make a lot of it. Things have to change. It has nothing to do with race.

barreleffact
06-27-2011, 05:07 AM
I still believe it has nothing to do with race. Why didn't race have anything to do with sports like football, which is a sport that could be argued is dominated by black people? None of this is racist. It just doesn't make any sense to me. I think it's just an excuse for people who side with players in lockouts. I don't choose a side. I just want it to end so I can watch the NBA. Bottom line is that the owners are losing money and players already make a lot of it. Things have to change. It has nothing to do with race.

You could argue that football is predominantly black, but you could also argue that the most critical position is predominantly white, quarterback. Additionally, an argument can be made that people have been programmed to see violence especially against minorities. That could reasonably be an underlying factor as to why roughing the kicker and late hits against quarterbacks were instituted. It's okay to hit the black running-backs, but damaging that white quarterback or kicker is wrong. I'm not saying that that is definitively the case, but it can be an argument/something to consider. Additionally, the contracts are not guaranteed in football. People like the idea of limiting another's money because they fail to realize the one that benefits is already richer than the team. In basketball, Nate Robinson had an unguaranteed contract and his team refused to play him to save some money. Everyone was happy for the team. But wait... How is that fair? Nate was healthy. Nate was at practice. The team even needed a key player off the bench, but they downed him because of money until the players union pursued action. Is that often the case in football?

Things do have to change. I agree. The system, however, is not a necessary change. Management of funds is what needs to change. The league itself could give up some money for the teams as well. How could the league make money and many teams prosper, but the owners of many teams don't? An alternative would be to eliminate a few teams. Remove the teams that consistently fail. It would remove jobs, but the players with true talent would remain and competition would greatly increase.

Edit:
Football-Additionally, football can be argued as very racist. TO is consistently ridiculed for crying for his quarterback and his "antics." The NY Giants player that shot himself in the leg after winning the Superbowl(in essence) for them is moronic. Yet, Ben Rothlisberger gets THREE different rape charges and everything is okay. Kobe got one accusation that was obviously false, yet some refuse to let him live it down. He is labeled a rapist for life for virtually no reason.

The system should change, but not the percentage of money reserved by the players. Contracts should be guaranteed but limited to 3 years. Incentives still in contracts that raise 3-7%, but if they leave teams, they can basically only get the same 3 year contract they just had but with another team. Therefore, the incentive to stay is those 3-7% increases. Owners become protected from themselves but there is no hard cap. Players will lose millions for leaving teams but are still guaranteed 50% of the revenue as a whole.

Heediot
06-27-2011, 06:20 AM
Athletes spew so much cheese when it comes to money even my dog can sense the bs. It's all a pr stunt. Everybody is greedy up in this mf'er. You can just tell how greedy they are when they are asked the questions.

Heediot
06-27-2011, 06:27 AM
Seriously pro players should shut the **** up about their salary....

Teachers
Doctors
Fire Fighters
Police Officers

Should be making more money then players period....

That's bs. Just because what u do as a service is higher in value doesn't dictate your actual salary. If they should be making alot of money then they would be and thats that.

Heediot
06-27-2011, 06:31 AM
For good reason, 22 out of 30 teams have lost money. If they were to just ignore these problems the NBA would be in serious trouble in the future. You would see at least a few teams not in the NBA anymore. The whole market would suffer and less people would be in the league. So for future players settling on the current players demand would be terrible.

The players right now don't give a crap about anyone but themselves. They don't want to lose any money, despite the fact that it would benefit the league and future players. Just greedy millionare aholes.

IMO the fewer teams the better. The NBA is saturated right now. There would be a better product with stronger teams. Guys like Michael Redd would not be averaging 25 ppg like he did a few years back.

Jaji
06-27-2011, 08:31 AM
Tired of owners whining about how much they don't make? :rolleyes:

jiggin
06-27-2011, 08:50 AM
Wrong. Players are not demanding a biggest piece of the pie. We are going into a lockout bc the owners want to take away what the players already get.

no...they are saying that the specs of the current CBA aren't going to work, as evidence from the teams financial situations under this current agreement.

The owners simply want the agreement redone that will make their businesses, which the players are employees of, profitable again.

I think its not only the owners right, but they are the entire reason why we are able to enjoy basketball and why the NBA players have a job getting paid those millions of dollars.

If they aren't making money, why be in that business?

jiggin
06-27-2011, 08:51 AM
Tired of owners whining about how much they don't make? :rolleyes:

not really...it is their business. Would you like people telling you what to do with your money/business...or tell you to suck it up and go into the negatives each month in your business just cause its fun to watch. HELL NO.

Car Ramrod
06-27-2011, 09:03 AM
They should get rid of a few teams. Less jobs to compete for and maybe the players will put in more effort during the regular season.

Owners should make money if they run the team properly, they are the ones taking the risk of investing in a team. The players just have to show up. To be honest I hope the minimum gets raised, the cap gets lowered, and the max years are capped as well.

If the league wants all the franchises to survive and the union wants to keep as many players jobs as possible it's the only way. The Spurs were the best team in the league this year and they still aren't sure if they broke even. The smaller markets will not receive the sponsorship and TV dollars that big markets receive.

That being said if the owners invest poorly in a player the team should be handcuffed by a bad contract and I have no problems with a player taking the dollars that are thrown at them, who wouldn't.

Tom Stone
06-27-2011, 09:04 AM
..............

Yes your right, bad management is what it was, allowing the situation to get out of control.....But now that is out of control, and owners are losing money.....That why the system has to be revised.....on a personal note it's really low class to think this is a black and white thing.....I would like to see the owners as well have a cap, to what they can make ....anything above the cap goes to charities in the city they repesent....Team support would be at an all time high, with your team wins so does the city....The world won't survive with all the money in the hands of a few....Then athletes would really be heroes....But that wishful thinking I know:cool:

Jaji
06-27-2011, 09:24 AM
not really...it is their business. Would you like people telling you what to do with your money/business...or tell you to suck it up and go into the negatives each month in your business just cause its fun to watch. HELL NO.

Hmmm maybe we should give them a government bailout then for their failed business. No sympathy for billionaires. Sorry.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 09:32 AM
2 questions:
1- How do we know the owners are losing money without viewing their books? How can we say which teams are losing and how much they are losing based solely off estimations? I hate to see people assume the teams are losing 20M per year based off an article. Unless Stern or the owner said it himself, why believe it? Even then you would have to speculate.

2- Would removing a few teams really be such a bad thing? It would increase talent per team. The teams that lose money won't have to worry about losses anymore. Location is a principle business aspect. If your location sucks, you did a poor analysis. Translation- get out of these smaller cities and move, close, or manage your funds adequately.

They aren't going to contract teams. Stern still has it in his mind to add teams in Europe.

But you brought up a good point there are teams in areas that can't support a franchise. I remember a yr or so when the Cp3 topic was being discussed and everyone mentioned how much money they're losing. New Orleans is an NFL and College Football town they aren't basketball junkies.

Law25
06-27-2011, 09:33 AM
I thought this thread would be boring but after reading everyones thoughts and opinions i enjoyeed it tremendously. I agree some fans judge the NBA and its players unfairly because of the race of players are majority black. The best example i read thats shows racism in todays sports was Big Ben's three rapes charges not being made into as big of an scandel as Kobe's one charge. Saying that I dont think the lockout has anything to do with race. I dont even think the guy who brought up race in this thread think it does. I thought he was more reffering to fans and their bias towards NBA players because of their race. Now onto the topic, one great point i have read was what guarantee do players have that the owners would better manage their own finances if the players were to agree to the cuts and the owners began to prosper more. Also is it really fair that players who generate the profit suffer because of their owners mistakes, and why are owners giving contracts they cant afford. Every heard the saying dont cut an check your *** cant pay for. Thats what the owners are doing. Promising money they dont have and trying to con players out of their just due. Though i dont think its fair I agree players should take an small decrease in pay so the league can continue to grow, but they should also be allowed to check the owners books if the issue is every brought up again.

Law25
06-27-2011, 09:52 AM
not really...it is their business. Would you like people telling you what to do with your money/business...or tell you to suck it up and go into the negatives each month in your business just cause its fun to watch. HELL NO.

No i wouldnt like that, but its kind of irresponsible to have the additude I screwed up now you pay for it.

LakersIn5
06-27-2011, 09:55 AM
FOR THE OWNERS. DONT OFFER WHaT YOU CANT PAY! IF YOU CANT PAY THE PLAYERS THEN DONT OFFER THEM ****!

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 09:56 AM
Hmmm maybe we should give them a government bailout then for their failed business. No sympathy for billionaires. Sorry.

They made poor decisions. You don't have to spend money just because it's burning a hole in your pocket. Ppl have to realize that even if the current system is revised some teams still won't reach the top of the league. The NFL has the "perfect system" look how long the Lions have struggled. The Raiders haven't been to the PS since 2002.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 09:57 AM
FOR THE OWNERS. DONT OFFER WHaT YOU CANT PAY! IF YOU CANT PAY THE PLAYERS THEN DONT OFFER THEM ****!

There are players like JJ Reddick making 7 million dollars a yr WTF

jiggin
06-27-2011, 10:13 AM
They made poor decisions. You don't have to spend money just because it's burning a hole in your pocket. Ppl have to realize that even if the current system is revised some teams still won't reach the top of the league. The NFL has the "perfect system" look how long the Lions have struggled. The Raiders haven't been to the PS since 2002.

then you have lopsided teams and leagues...which creates even more a gap in finances between teams which will require the small money teams to either disappear (can't sustain the business) or create a pity tax for the small teams that can't financially keep up and sign FA players.

See the MLB. Its sad and really spits in the face of equality in the league.

I want just about anything BUT the NBA to follow the MLB. That would destroy the sport, IMO. I don't want to see a copy of the MLB...

ttam68
06-27-2011, 10:17 AM
Good idea. Obviously college basketball is entirely pure and not profit driven at all.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 10:23 AM
Hmmm maybe we should give them a government bailout then for their failed business. No sympathy for billionaires. Sorry.

you don't have to take the situation to the extreme.

All they want is control over their business financially. I don't think that is too much to ask, even if it is their faults. If they are just now taking fiscal responsibility with their business, that should be applauded not booed. If we want to see the NBA around in the future, this NEEDS to happen; the owners need to get control back financially.

the players have been taking full advantage of this, and I don't think the owners are out of their minds to demand a change or for the players to go find other jobs.

Its a business, and if its losing money, its not a good business. A good business man either fixes it and makes it profitable or cuts ties and closes doors to find profit in another venture. Its not rocket science.

To be honest, the players have very little ground to stand on after the CBA expires. The owners don't have to do anything but vote to lockout. I wonder how much MORE money they will lose by not having a season and renting out their facilities for concerts ect... compared to the amount they are losing in having a season.

PS - the players are mostly millionaires....so don't throw a pity party for them either.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 10:31 AM
then you have lopsided teams and leagues...which creates even more a gap in finances between teams which will require the small money teams to either disappear (can't sustain the business) or create a pity tax for the small teams that can't financially keep up and sign FA players.

See the MLB. Its sad and really spits in the face of equality in the league.

I want just about anything BUT the NBA to follow the MLB. That would destroy the sport, IMO. I don't want to see a copy of the MLB...

I'm all in favor of a "pity tax." A number of the problems that teams experience when not being able to keep players is location. There are NBA franchises in certain areas that players do not find desirable.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 10:45 AM
I'm all in favor of a "pity tax." A number of the problems that teams experience when not being able to keep players is location. There are NBA franchises in certain areas that players do not find desirable.

this is a very small variable. Most players in almost ALL sports reside a different place than they play. Most of the location argument really focuses around the market and visibility of the team and if they as a player can increase their visibility and payday.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 10:50 AM
this is a very small variable. Most players in almost ALL sports reside a different place than they play. Most of the location argument really focuses around the market and visibility of the team and if they as a player can increase their visibility and payday.

It might be a small variable but it is does play a role in their thinking.

heyman321
06-27-2011, 10:55 AM
Hmmm maybe we should give them a government bailout then for their failed business. No sympathy for billionaires. Sorry.

You are so misinformed hahhaha.

llemon
06-27-2011, 11:27 AM
you don't have to take the situation to the extreme.

All they want is control over their business financially. I don't think that is too much to ask, even if it is their faults.

I LOVE that statement.

Let's bail 'em out, the poor rich oppressed.

dapooch
06-27-2011, 11:30 AM
:cry::mad::cry::mad:
if u are as good of a 3 point shooter as you make it out to be, then you made the wrong career choice, and just by seeing you calling it the computer field, then i'm fairly certain you didn't have any lucrative career and you are a broke bum...don't hate the players, hate the game:cool:


Not exactly broke. When I graduated from college I was recruited by a little company in Washington State named MicroSoft. I received a ton of stock options that turned into gold. Point is I have all the money I ever needed and it has not changed my work ethic. How many NBA players sign huge contracts then flop. I would make a list but it would take me too many days. Nuff said!

jiggin
06-27-2011, 11:31 AM
I LOVE that statement.

Let's bail 'em out, the poor rich oppressed.

they don't want you to bail them out, or they would just raise ticket prices and vending/merchandize prizes through the roof to keep paying the players.

The problem is, they know they can't go any higher than they already are with ticket prices. Inflation each year already causes them to have to raise prices regularly to match costs rising.

So...they turn to the most obvious sour spot on their financial spreadsheets...the players.

WE don't have to bail them out...but if the players don't take on some of this burden, then we all lose...cause there will be no basketball to watch or go to and the players won't get paid ANYTHING.

Now, they have approached the players to ask them to help with some of the burden to keep basketball going and to keep those paychecks being handed out to ALL employees, including the players. The players are saying F U...which will leave the owners this week with really only 2 decisions:

a) continue with the current CBA by resigning it...continue losing money even though you own the NBA team to make a profit.

b) use the only think you have in your power, their employment, to try and negotiate with the players who so far have refused to negotiate.

Guess we will see who will break first, but if I were an owner that was losing millions of dollars a year, I would rather shutdown the business, sell off my assets in it and move on to another profitable venture than move forward knowing that I am going to lose money every year under the current situation.

Have fun in the Euro league...you will be a STAR! LOL

See, these business men because wealthy because of their savvy business skills. Most have MANY other business ventures, and have spent their entire lives turning ideas into money and creating profitable businesses. They will be fine walking away from the NBA and continuing business. Players on the other hand...what will they fall back on? Euro ball? Doing talks? Flipping burgers?

kenzo400
06-27-2011, 11:36 AM
That's bs. Just because what u do as a service is higher in value doesn't dictate your actual salary. If they should be making alot of money then they would be and thats that.

Who says the system we have right now is just? He was saying ideally this would be the case.

kenzo400
06-27-2011, 11:37 AM
IMO the fewer teams the better. The NBA is saturated right now. There would be a better product with stronger teams. Guys like Michael Redd would not be averaging 25 ppg like he did a few years back.

I disagree, i would rather see more competition than a few teams dominating. I know this already happens, but there is hope that those teams that aren't the best could enter the competition in the future.

mlisica19
06-27-2011, 11:38 AM
The Pros are not complaining about how much they make. This is the same talk they are having in the NFL...

THE BUSINESS THEY ARE IN is doing BETTER. And you would think since your a huge reason for that success you get a raise. If you were part of a business and that business did well, would u refuse a raise?

Plus your only talking about 25% of the pros who make MILLIONS. And i Dont mean just a million. As a pro, your going to have to spend a ton of money for more stuff to prepare for a season. Every offseason most of these guys spend THOUSANDS of dollars for the BEST OF THE BEST trainers and the best training programs.

Pro Sports is a business, they supply we demand. As they supply more, we demand more. So these players who WORK for this business demand MORE too. If it wasnt for these complaining players, nba nhl players would still be making only a few thousand dollars a year.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 11:49 AM
The Pros are not complaining about how much they make. This is the same talk they are having in the NFL...

THE BUSINESS THEY ARE IN is doing BETTER. And you would think since your a huge reason for that success you get a raise. If you were part of a business and that business did well, would u refuse a raise?

Plus your only talking about 25% of the pros who make MILLIONS. And i Dont mean just a million. As a pro, your going to have to spend a ton of money for more stuff to prepare for a season. Every offseason most of these guys spend THOUSANDS of dollars for the BEST OF THE BEST trainers and the best training programs.

Pro Sports is a business, they supply we demand. As they supply more, we demand more. So these players who WORK for this business demand MORE too. If it wasnt for these complaining players, nba nhl players would still be making only a few thousand dollars a year.

players are provided everything they need in the off-season to train by the teams they are employed by. If they chose to go a different direction, that is their choice...but they have the facilities and professional staff at the highest level at their beck and call provided by their employer.

As a side note, this includes products (shoes, training aids ect...) from the team. they do not need to go out and buy anything for training, unless it is something not normally used in a basketball or sports training facility.

llemon
06-27-2011, 11:54 AM
they don't want you to bail them out, or they would just raise ticket prices and vending/merchandize prizes through the roof to keep paying the players.

The owners don't want us to bail them out.

They want the players to bail them out.

The owners agreed to a CBA that hasn't worked out for them because these so called great business men haven't been able to control THEMSELVES from spending more money than a profitable organization should.

Players gave back 8.87% of their '09-'10 salary and will probably have to give back 10% of this seasons salary.

Do these great businessmen owners what exactly they are buying when the buy an NBA team. You would think they would sit down and figure out the numbers.

If a lockout wasn't about to happen, wouldn't one of these fools give David West $10 mil a year for four or five years.

I have no sympathy for the owners. They have spent money like idiots, and now they are going to lockout the players to try and fix it.

LakersIn5
06-27-2011, 12:01 PM
like i said TO THE OWNERS DONT OFFER IF YOU CANT PAY

jiggin
06-27-2011, 12:03 PM
The owners don't want us to bail them out.

They want the players to bail them out.

The owners agreed to a CBA that hasn't worked out for them because these so called great business men haven't been able to control THEMSELVES from spending more money than a profitable organization should.

Players gave back 8.87% of their '09-'10 salary and will probably have to give back 10% of this seasons salary.

Do these great businessmen owners what exactly they are buying when the buy an NBA team. You would think they would sit down and figure out the numbers.

If a lockout wasn't about to happen, wouldn't one of these fools give David West $10 mil a year for four or five years.

I have no sympathy for the owners. They have spent money like idiots, and now they are going to lockout the players to try and fix it.

yep...and if they don't sign those players, you won't go/won't watch/won't buy the jersey and they can't make a profit....SO THEY ARE SCREWED EITHER WAY...right?

Go ahead, be mad at the owners who bring you basketball. be mad at them for wanting control of their stuff.

By the way, you aren't allowed to drive your car that you own to any other function but work...k? Hows that feel to have someone tell you what you can and can't do with something you 100% own?

Not nice and you would be an idiot to follow those instructions. Same with the owners. They own the NBA teams TO MAKE MONEY. They are not making money. So...either that changes or there is no NBA.

Don't put the cart before the horse man. You forget who the NBA is brought to you by...and it isn't the players.

llemon
06-27-2011, 12:12 PM
yep...and if they don't sign those players, you won't go/won't watch/won't buy the jersey and they can't make a profit....SO THEY ARE SCREWED EITHER WAY...right?

Go ahead, be mad at the owners who bring you basketball. be mad at them for wanting control of their stuff.

By the way, you aren't allowed to drive your car that you own to any other function but work...k? Hows that feel to have someone tell you what you can and can't do with something you 100% own?

Not nice and you would be an idiot to follow those instructions. Same with the owners. They own the NBA teams TO MAKE MONEY. They are not making money. So...either that changes or there is no NBA.

Don't put the cart before the horse man. You forget who the NBA is brought to you by...and it isn't the players.

Again, were these owners stupid enough to enter the NBA blindly?

And are you saying the owners OWN the players? There might be a law or two concerning that.

And are you saying that the government doesn't tell what I can and can't do with my life, which I 100% own?

Owners own teams to make money, as much as they can.

Players play pro-sports to make money, as much as they can. Again, did the NBA owners not know this coming in?

Let's put the cart before the horse and have the owners suit up and play, and we'll see what kind of crowd they draw.

LakersIn5
06-27-2011, 12:17 PM
its the national BASKETBALL association! who plays basketball? owners or players?? owners should only be second fiddle.

swirl54
06-27-2011, 12:22 PM
Seriously pro players should shut the **** up about their salary....

Teachers
Doctors
Fire Fighters
Police Officers

Should be making more money then players period....

LOL no way you are so wrong on this. How bout you go watch those mentioned play sports have fun at that game. These players get paid the big bucks because not many people have the level of talents they do. Why is it always about the players anyway what about the a55hole owners who are super rich. Whine all you want about the money they make go ahead and btw doctors make plenty of money in the USA in most countries doctors are not allowed to profit off of medicine it is done for the love of fellow humans.

swirl54
06-27-2011, 12:24 PM
yep...and if they don't sign those players, you won't go/won't watch/won't buy the jersey and they can't make a profit....SO THEY ARE SCREWED EITHER WAY...right?

Go ahead, be mad at the owners who bring you basketball. be mad at them for wanting control of their stuff.

By the way, you aren't allowed to drive your car that you own to any other function but work...k? Hows that feel to have someone tell you what you can and can't do with something you 100% own?

Not nice and you would be an idiot to follow those instructions. Same with the owners. They own the NBA teams TO MAKE MONEY. They are not making money. So...either that changes or there is no NBA.

Don't put the cart before the horse man. You forget who the NBA is brought to you by...and it isn't the players.

Um they already tell me how fast i can go. BTW the players are the victims here most owners are idiots.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 12:31 PM
Again, were these owners stupid enough to enter the NBA blindly?

And are you saying the owners OWN the players? There might be a law or two concerning that.

And are you saying that the government doesn't tell what I can and can't do with my life, which I 100% own?

Owners own teams to make money, as much as they can.

Players play pro-sports to make money, as much as they can. Again, did the NBA owners not know this coming in?

Let's put the cart before the horse and have the owners suit up and play, and we'll see what kind of crowd they draw.

wow, you are going WAY out there on this one overthinking it.

Think of it just like your corner coffee shop. They make coffee in order to try and make a profit off of you enjoying the coffee they make. they try and find the best beans, the best employees and the best facilities to offer you this, to offer you the most attractive product so you will help them not only make their money back but make a profit off of it. That is the whole reason for that coffee shops existence...to make a profit off of you.

Now...if they hire employees, and to get the best they have to offer more than minimum wage...the do it because they feel it will draw more customers. If and when business is slow, they may have to let a few employees go. If the business goes really bad into the red, they will have to start cutting hours, letting employees go and trying to cut costs with their facility to keep the doors open.

THIS is not really that much different. The owners are trying very hard to put the best product they can to draw customers to buy tickets and spend money at the facility. But its not working. Its not leaving them in the black, and until they are in the black...they need to make changes to their current business structure, or close the doors.

These NBA owners are not immune to the financial situation that is going on in this country. They are much more at risk than the players are...which is why the owners want the control with the new CBA.

By the way...NO Business owner 'owns' his employees...but he does have every right to control their work/compensation as long as it is with in the laws of this country...something that the CBA is a big part of, since it is a legally binding contract, and why they will go to the extreme (a lockout) to make sure it is done right this time and done in a way that can save the league from itself.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 12:32 PM
Um they already tell me how fast i can go. BTW the players are the victims here most owners are idiots.


the players continue to make money in the nba, most owners are not, they are taking a loss right now so you can watch basketball.

In what business model besides a Co-op, do the employees make more than the owner of the business and the business remains successful?

any right minded business person knows this can and will not continue.

llemon
06-27-2011, 12:37 PM
wow, you are going WAY out there on this one overthinking it.

Think of it just like your corner coffee shop. They make coffee in order to try and make a profit off of you enjoying the coffee they make. they try and find the best beans, the best employees and the best facilities to offer you this, to offer you the most attractive product so you will help them not only make their money back but make a profit off of it. That is the whole reason for that coffee shops existence...to make a profit off of you.

Now...if they hire employees, and to get the best they have to offer more than minimum wage...the do it because they feel it will draw more customers. If and when business is slow, they may have to let a few employees go. If the business goes really bad into the red, they will have to start cutting hours, letting employees go and trying to cut costs with their facility to keep the doors open.

THIS is not really that much different. The owners are trying very hard to put the best product they can to draw customers to buy tickets and spend money at the facility. But its not working. Its not leaving them in the black, and until they are in the black...they need to make changes to their current business structure, or close the doors.

These NBA owners are immune to the financial situation that is going on in this country. They are much more at risk than the players are...which is why the owners want the control with the new CBA.

By the way...NO Business owner 'owns' his employees...but he does have every right to control their work/compensation as long as it is with in the laws of this country...something that the CBA is a big part of.

You keep blathering on.

I've been on strike for 7 months and for 5 months in my life.

Ownership thought Union was asking for too much.

Union disagreed.

I did not cross the picket line.

Now I'm retired and collecting a pension from the owners.

All hail the Union and the people they look out for.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 12:41 PM
The owners are losing money but they are billionaires with an incredible amount of wealth that the players couldn't dream of. The athletes in the NBA are rich while the owners are wealthy. There is a difference.

llemon
06-27-2011, 12:59 PM
the players continue to make money in the nba, most owners are not, they are taking a loss right now so you can watch basketball.

And none of these owners have been canonized yet? LOL!!!

kenzo400
06-27-2011, 01:11 PM
Again, were these owners stupid enough to enter the NBA blindly?

And are you saying the owners OWN the players? There might be a law or two concerning that.

And are you saying that the government doesn't tell what I can and can't do with my life, which I 100% own?

Owners own teams to make money, as much as they can.

Players play pro-sports to make money, as much as they can. Again, did the NBA owners not know this coming in?

Let's put the cart before the horse and have the owners suit up and play, and we'll see what kind of crowd they draw.

:facepalm: That is the most ridicilous statement. The players can do whatever they want with their life. If they want they can stop playing basketball. Them being in the NBA is not a right. It is a job, like any other and they are free to leave it if they want to.

kenzo400
06-27-2011, 01:13 PM
LOL no way you are so wrong on this. How bout you go watch those mentioned play sports have fun at that game. These players get paid the big bucks because not many people have the level of talents they do. Why is it always about the players anyway what about the a55hole owners who are super rich. Whine all you want about the money they make go ahead and btw doctors make plenty of money in the USA in most countries doctors are not allowed to profit off of medicine it is done for the love of fellow humans.

:confused: WHat are you talking about? Please tell me a doctor in any first world nation that doesnt get paid well. I'm sure they do it for plenty of other reasons, like love of fellow humans and so on. But they all profit.

llemon
06-27-2011, 01:15 PM
:facepalm: That is the most ridicilous statement. The players can do whatever they want with their life. If they want they can stop playing basketball. Them being in the NBA is not a right. It is a job, like any other and they are free to leave it if they want to.

Guess you didn't pay attention to what I was responding to.

And for some reason, you now have a palm print on your forehead.

KingPosey
06-27-2011, 01:38 PM
Oh man, I did shoot. I had a great college career and to this day I still don't know too many players that could shoot the three like I could. I took the business path after college, and believe me, I made a ton of money in the computer field. It's not all about money, it's about being respected in what you do and gaining respect from people you work with. Every time I walked on a basketball court I gave 110%. Nuff said!

Where did this come from? You sound like someone super educated....

Shmontaine
06-27-2011, 01:47 PM
i can't believe this thread... It's pretty simple...

the business of the NBA is failing FINANCIALLY... not in popularity... this is a fundamental problem in how the finances are set up...

owners are not making money, yet people think these teams aren't for sale??? of course they are, but who would buy a business losing millions of dollars a year?? i don't see anyone in the news saying they will buy a team... please link if you have...

I was laid off two years ago at the beginning of the economic downturn, my replacement was hired at 55% of my salary... I was never offered a paycut... Life could be worse for the poor nba players...

i guess some of you guys would like to see the nba gone in the next decade, or maybe just have the 8 teams that are making money... I don't understand what's so hard to understand... the players have had it awesome for about 15 years. the nba grew, and it's probably reached a plateau, except the players pay has not stopped increasing...

this is not like the nfl, where the owners refused to open their books, basically a dead giveaway that they are being greedy... the nba owners are honestly losing money, while the players have been making ever increasing money...

i would suggest an initial paycut so that most teams are in the black, then a profit sharing opportunity if the league starts to make money again...

at this point, it really doesn't matter who's fault it is... it needs to be resolved... and what did owners do except give the players more money than they could afford? those damn owners... they should be ashamed of stinginess...

swirl54
06-27-2011, 02:06 PM
:confused: WHat are you talking about? Please tell me a doctor in any first world nation that doesnt get paid well. I'm sure they do it for plenty of other reasons, like love of fellow humans and so on. But they all profit.

160k average here in USA Canada 100k France 80k Sweden 55k There is a huge difference in well and 105k more as in the case of USA vs Sweden Mexico is about 30k.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 02:13 PM
You keep blathering on.

I've been on strike for 7 months and for 5 months in my life.

Ownership thought Union was asking for too much.

Union disagreed.

I did not cross the picket line.

Now I'm retired and collecting a pension from the owners.

All hail the Union and the people they look out for.

and the raised prices for the consumer that effect the rest of the nation because of the union. Awesome. We thank you for having to spend more because, you know that ownership group is going to remain profitable. they don't enter business ownership to pay you...they do it for profit, and that will and should never change unless you don't want to have a democratic free trade environment.

So...in your scenario, I guess the owners should cave in, then pass on the lost revenue via ticket prices and merch/vendor prices at games. that way not only are the players and owners happy...the fans get to be involved too>?!?!?!?

Awesome. The way you look at these things, you just think the money comes out of thin air. But it reality, it must come from somewhere...and if the employees demand more and the owners aren't going to take a loss, you end up screwing the consumer...all in the name of selfish greed. AWESOME. Go Unions...the greedy American way!

look unions are a positive part of a work force if used correctly. But when a union triumphs over a company/corp...someone still loses and its not the company.

Besides, a union is doing the exact same thing the company is doing, playing hardball to try and get more money in their pockets. In fact, you should be on the owners side, since they are the ones 'striking' to make things right...fighting for the NBA survival which will not happen with the current CBA parameters.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 02:19 PM
i can't believe this thread... It's pretty simple...

the business of the NBA is failing FINANCIALLY... not in popularity... this is a fundamental problem in how the finances are set up...

owners are not making money, yet people think these teams aren't for sale??? of course they are, but who would buy a business losing millions of dollars a year?? i don't see anyone in the news saying they will buy a team... please link if you have...

I was laid off two years ago at the beginning of the economic downturn, my replacement was hired at 55% of my salary... I was never offered a paycut... Life could be worse for the poor nba players...

i guess some of you guys would like to see the nba gone in the next decade, or maybe just have the 8 teams that are making money... I don't understand what's so hard to understand... the players have had it awesome for about 15 years. the nba grew, and it's probably reached a plateau, except the players pay has not stopped increasing...

this is not like the nfl, where the owners refused to open their books, basically a dead giveaway that they are being greedy... the nba owners are honestly losing money, while the players have been making ever increasing money...

i would suggest an initial paycut so that most teams are in the black, then a profit sharing opportunity if the league starts to make money again...

at this point, it really doesn't matter who's fault it is... it needs to be resolved... and what did owners do except give the players more money than they could afford? those damn owners... they should be ashamed of stinginess...

very well said. way better than I have been trying to put it, obviously.

llemon
06-27-2011, 02:21 PM
and the raised prices for the consumer that effect the rest of the nation because of the union. Awesome. We thank you for having to spend more because, you know that ownership group is going to remain profitable. they don't enter business ownership to pay you...they do it for profit, and that will and should never change unless you don't want to have a democratic free trade environment.

So...in your scenario, I guess the owners should cave in, then pass on the lost revenue via ticket prices and merch/vendor prices at games. that way not only are the players and owners happy...the fans get to be involved too>?!?!?!?

Awesome. The way you look at these things, you just think the money comes out of thin air. But it reality, it must come from somewhere...and if the employees demand more and the owners aren't going to take a loss, you end up screwing the consumer...all in the name of selfish greed. AWESOME. Go Unions...the greedy american way!

Yes, it was the Unions, not the banks or the corporations or Wall St that have put the nation in financial crisis. LOL!!!!

Tell me another one, sonny.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 02:25 PM
NBA Salary Cap and average player salary since the introduction of the cap in 1984.

NBA Salary cap since inception:
http://www.uploadphotograph.com/?v=4182c7dfd.png

average NBA players salary since soft cap has been introduced:
http://www.uploadphotograph.com/?v=db8a3f11af.png

jiggin
06-27-2011, 02:27 PM
Yes, it was the Unions, not the banks or the corporations or Wall St that have put the nation in financial crisis. LOL!!!!

Tell me another one, sonny.

that is not what I said at all.

You need to take your conspiracy theory to a short Business 101 class.

Its much simpler than you are trying to make it out to be.

Tmath
06-27-2011, 02:32 PM
Owners are stupid and the players are greedy. Im not taking any sides.

Shmontaine
06-27-2011, 02:42 PM
very well said. way better than I have been trying to put it, obviously.

thanks... i just don't understand that some people on this thread would actually have the players continue to have these huge salaries that the league can't afford.. where do they think the money will come from?? clubs will close, more revenue will be lost, and the cycle will continue until the equilibrium is reached...

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 03:23 PM
thanks... i just don't understand that some people on this thread would actually have the players continue to have these huge salaries that the league can't afford.. where do they think the money will come from?? clubs will close, more revenue will be lost, and the cycle will continue until the equilibrium is reached...

Whose fault is that?

Shmontaine
06-27-2011, 03:30 PM
Whose fault is that?

That doesn't make sense... you're basically saying who cares that the league can't afford it, they should still pay the players, even though it obviously too much for the league to pay and be profitable business???

the flip side is, the players got more than they should've for a decade or so, and now it's time to bring the salaries to a reasonable and sustainable level...

but yeah, let's shut down the league so these nba players don't get screwed... okay..

Nba player should say IMO, "thank you owners for giving us more than you should've, we've enjoyed the extra money"

and wait, isn't lebron almost a billionaire or something... is it okay if he loses money since he has so much?? apparently the billionaire owners don't need to make money...

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 03:40 PM
That doesn't make sense... you're basically saying who cares that the league can't afford it, they should still pay the players, even though it obviously too much for the league to pay and be profitable business???

the flip side is, the players got more than they should've for a decade or so, and now it's time to bring the salaries to a reasonable and sustainable level...

but yeah, let's shut down the league so these nba players don't get screwed... okay..

Nba player should say IMO, "thank you owners for giving us more than you should've, we've enjoyed the extra money"

and wait, isn't lebron almost a billionaire or something... is it okay if he loses money since he has so much?? apparently the billionaire owners don't need to make money...

What I'm saying is the players should not bend over backwards because the owners spent money like it was going out of style. No one put a gun to their head and told them Rashard Lewis was worth that type of money. No one told Isiah Thomas Jerome James was a a player that should be paid like a star. From what I see Gms and owners saw players excelling in small sample sizes and determined hey this guy is great we have to lock him up. Yes there are players in the league that are overpaid. I almost threw up when I found out Reddick is making 7 million a yr but with that being said no one told the owners to spend like trust fun babies.

There are a ton of bad contracts in the league but it's not our fault even though we're the ones that gave the players those contracts.

WTF

jiggin
06-27-2011, 03:46 PM
Whose fault is that?

what does that matter? Has very little to do with resolving the current situation and having the NBA to watch for the 2012 season...

Shmontaine
06-27-2011, 03:47 PM
the owners are admitting they made a mistake.. and they have been paying for it, hence the loss of revenue... THEY ARE LOSING MONEY...

are you saying that rashard ****ing lewis deserves to be paid that much??? so much so that the wizards should be forced to go out of business in order to pay him...

talk about starving the goose that lays the golden egg...

do you not believe in sustainability... that's what we're talking about here... the same thing happened to crop farmers 50 years ago... now farmers rotate crops, they make less than they potentially could each year, but they have the sustainability so that the soil keeps growing the food that feeds the world...

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 03:48 PM
what does that matter? Has very little to do with resolving the current situation and having the NBA to watch for the 2012 season...

It matters because the players are being blamed for what the owners have done over the yrs.

Normally I'm on the side of management but not this time.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 03:51 PM
the owners are admitting they made a mistake.. and they have been paying for it, hence the loss of revenue... THEY ARE LOSING MONEY...

are you saying that rashard ****ing lewis deserves to be paid that much??? so much so that the wizards should be forced to go out of business in order to pay him...

talk about starving the goose that lays the golden egg...

do you not believe in sustainability... that's what we're talking about here... the same thing happened to crop farmers 50 years ago... now farmers rotate crops, they make less than they potentially could each year, but they have the sustainability so that the soil keeps growing the food that feeds the world...

Of course not Lewis should not be paid that money but the players should not get beat up because the owner of Orlando overvalued Lewis based on one PS run he had in Seattle.

Shmontaine
06-27-2011, 03:59 PM
Nobody is blaming the players. It's just the way it is. They are making too much money. 100% of NBA players made money last year. 25% of owners made money. Who's getting screwed???

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 04:27 PM
The players are millionairess. The owners are worth hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars. These guys see streams of revenue that even the highest paid players in the league will never see. I'm not saying it's ok for them to lose money but at the same time we can't pass the collection plate around.

llemon
06-27-2011, 04:38 PM
that is not what I said at all.

You need to take your conspiracy theory to a short Business 101 class.

Its much simpler than you are trying to make it out to be.

It is simple.

You are either a boss, or a kizazz who bends over for the boss and wants to be boss.

I'm a Union guy. I don't like to be told what to do and I don't want to tell anyone what to do.

We are looking at things from different 'angles', shall we say.

Tom Stone
06-27-2011, 04:43 PM
I see alot of people saying, it's the owners fault, there the one's that gave those bad contracts......it obvious .....It doesn't matter how we got to this point the fact is, the system is broken....now that your done being petty.....you can understand the two choices we have..., to let things spin out of control and do nothing, to the point we start losing teams and championships are bought not won.....or the owners fix the problems they started , by re adjusting the system.....Anyone who can't understand this I would concider you a low brow, walking around frowning at everything you don't understand.

llemon
06-27-2011, 04:48 PM
I see alot of people saying, it's the owners fault, there the one's that gave those bad contracts......it obvious .....It doesn't matter how we got to this point the fact is, the system is broken....now that your done being petty.....you can understand the two choices we have..., to let things spin out of control and do nothing, to the point we start losing teams and championships are bought not won.....or the owners fix the problems they started , by re adjusting the system.....Anyone who can't understand this I would concider you a low brow, walking around frowning at everything you don't understand.

How about the owners re-adjust the way they throw around money?

AddiX
06-27-2011, 04:57 PM
There's nothing wrong with the system, yiu can complain all you want about bad contracts.

But what about good contracts? You think the cavs wouldn't of gave bron 30 mill a year if they were allowed to?

Of course they would. But than the owners want to complain about bad contracts? Give me a break. Remind yourselves, the only owners who want these lockouts are the ones who suck.

You don't see a bunch of broke teams who are good do ya?

END THREAD

Tom Stone
06-27-2011, 05:04 PM
How about the owners re-adjust the way they throw around money? (Quote)
0





That is exactly what the owners are trying to do, with the flex cap being put in, it will control how much money you can spend per player, thus controlling the outrageous contract situation, making it harder to make big mistakes like they have in the past.
Hopefully I can shine some light on you shrubs, so you can grow.

llemon
06-27-2011, 06:04 PM
How about the owners re-adjust the way they throw around money? (Quote)
0





That is exactly what the owners are trying to do, with the flex cap being put in, it will control how much money you can spend per player, thus controlling the outrageous contract situation, making it harder to make big mistakes like they have in the past.
Hopefully I can shine some light on you shrubs, so you can grow.

Has anyone been forcing the owners to shell out the types of contracts they have to guys like Baron davis, Vince Carter, Corey Magette, Mo Williams, Drew Gooden, Emeka Okafor, Mehmet Okur.

This isn't the players problems. The owners spend like idiots. Now they have to draw up an agreement to protect themselves from themselves.

A) That's ridiculous, and

B) The second the new agreement goes into effect, many owners will have their lawyers taking the agreement apart, bit by bit, looking for loopholes so they can spend more money than the other owners. That's how they do.

daleja424
06-27-2011, 06:13 PM
Has anyone been forcing the owners to shell out the types of contracts they have to guys like Baron davis, Vince Carter, Corey Magette, Mo Williams, Drew Gooden, Emeka Okafor, Mehmet Okur.

This isn't the players problems. The owners spend like idiots. Now they have to draw up an agreement to protect themselves from themselves.

A) That's ridiculous, and

B) The second the new agreement goes into effect, many owners will have their lawyers taking the agreement apart, bit by bit, looking for loopholes so they can spend more money than the other owners. That's how they do.

You bet they will... they all complain that they want some strict cap... but they will ALL be looking for ways to circumvent it the second a player comes along that they want

llemon
06-27-2011, 06:17 PM
For good reason, 22 out of 30 teams have lost money. If they were to just ignore these problems the NBA would be in serious trouble in the future. You would see at least a few teams not in the NBA anymore. The whole market would suffer and less people would be in the league. So for future players settling on the current players demand would be terrible.

The players right now don't give a crap about anyone but themselves. They don't want to lose any money, despite the fact that it would benefit the league and future players. Just greedy millionare aholes.

As opposed to greedy billionaire aholes?

jiggin
06-27-2011, 06:33 PM
It matters because the players are being blamed for what the owners have done over the yrs.

Normally I'm on the side of management but not this time.


no one is blaming anyone ...its not about blame. Its about fixing what is broken.

The players have been able to have it amazing over the last 20 years (CBA was started in 84 or 86 I believe). They have seen HUGE raises and paydays. That is awesome for them. But the gravy train has left the building. The owners are saying, sorry...we can't have it like this anymore. We need not only change, but major change for this to work going forward and everyone continue to get paid. Which means if this is going to continue, everyone is going to have to make sacrifices going forward till its straightened out.

I don't think its a bluff on the owners part, they NEED it to change.

llemon
06-27-2011, 06:39 PM
You bet they will... they all complain that they want some strict cap... but they will ALL be looking for ways to circumvent it the second a player comes along that they want

You won't see any poster backing the owners position acknowledging that.

daleja424
06-27-2011, 06:40 PM
no one is blaming anyone ...its not about blame. Its about fixing what is broken.

The players have been able to have it amazing over the last 20 years (CBA was started in 84 or 86 I believe). They have seen HUGE raises and paydays. That is awesome for them. But the gravy train has left the building. The owners are saying, sorry...we can't have it like this anymore. We need not only change, but major change for this to work going forward and everyone continue to get paid. Which means if this is going to continue, everyone is going to have to make sacrifices going forward till its straightened out.

I don't think its a bluff on the owners part, they NEED it to change.

actually... the players have given money back every step of the way.

every time there is a new cba... the players have to give something back. It is not a give and take... it is a constant take.

But I understand that this is business... and they have to make it work

My problem is the ignorant people that say stuff like the players are greedy and we will have a lockout b/c they want more money. That is blatently false. The latest player proposition is to cut their share from 57% of BRI to 54% of BRI (which is actually from 50% gross to 47% gross). They are offering to take a pay cut to cover the leagues losses...

but the owners countered that by asking for the players to reduce their cut to 37% or less... the greedy people at the table right now are the owners. Lets get that straight. We will havea lockout not b/c of players demands.... but b/c of the owners.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 06:40 PM
The players are millionairess. The owners are worth hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars. These guys see streams of revenue that even the highest paid players in the league will never see. I'm not saying it's ok for them to lose money but at the same time we can't pass the collection plate around.

I don't see what this has to do with this business venture losing money. They make millions in business because they don't allow their businesses to be in the red for long. They only let this go this long because they were under a legally binding contract (the CBA). Otherwise, like their other successful ventures, they would have made drastic changes already.)

Now its time to start a new CBA and they are protecting themselves going forward so that the business can still exist.

Bottom line, owners need their investments in players for as part of their business to be protected. That means the players not only have to give, but have to venture into territory that is scary...but works in every other professional sport that has a cap.

If the players won't budge, there won't be a NBA to watch. Owners have cut all they can in other areas without it effecting the product they give the fans. Concessions have been cut...blah blah blah...and they are STILL losing money.

In fact, I would think the fans would be siding with owners because they are trying to find other ways to fix this BESIDES RAISING TICKET PRICES SOME UNGODLY AMOUNT. They know they can't do that and keep you as a fan...so, next up...the major focus of the franchises spending...the players. Nothing else to cut.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 06:45 PM
It is simple.

You are either a boss, or a kizazz who bends over for the boss and wants to be boss.

I'm a Union guy. I don't like to be told what to do and I don't want to tell anyone what to do.

We are looking at things from different 'angles', shall we say.

sure, because when I work for a company...I know they don't HAVE to hire me...and that I am nothing special, they could replace me with someone as equal to me within a couple of weeks. I know I am not in charge. I understand that. I understand that I work FOR someone...I don't own anything there. I'm not so arrogant that I think my employer owes me anything more than the benefits and paycheck that I receive for my hard work. I can always leave, and they can always help me out the door at any point because...they hired me in the first place which they didn't have to do. Working is a privilege, not a right.

Everyone is expendable. First rule of business if you want to make it far.

daleja424
06-27-2011, 06:46 PM
and there are two flaws with your arguement:

1. most nba teams are not losing money... they are only in the red when owners add loan interest to the books. It seems to me that if the billionaires decide to take out loans instead of pay cash for a team, they shouldnt be able to claim the interest they have to pay on those loans as a loss. A majority of NBA teams would be in the black if they took loan interest off the tab. And really... do you expect players to pay for the interest on the team's loans when they see none of the benefits of owning the team?

2. even if a team loses a million here or there... the value of franchises has gone up markedly in recent years. Any NBA owner could sell their team now and walk away with hundreds of millions in profits.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 06:47 PM
How about the owners re-adjust the way they throw around money?

sure, nice suggestion...isn't that what they are trying to do?

daleja424
06-27-2011, 06:49 PM
sure, nice suggestion...but how does that fix the CURRENT PROBLEM

The current problem is that the owners are fudging the books to look like they are losing twice as much as they actually are and the owners expect the players to not only cover those fictional losses...but also give back additional billions of dollars.

The current problem is that the owners are greedy...

llemon
06-27-2011, 06:51 PM
Now its time to start a new CBA and they are protecting themselves going forward so that the business can still exist.

In fact, I would think the fans would be siding with owners because they are trying to find other ways to fix this BESIDES RAISING TICKET PRICES SOME UNGODLY AMOUNT. They know they can't do that and keep you as a fan...so, next up...the major focus of the franchises spending...the players. Nothing else to cut.

The owners are idiots who are trying protect themselves from themselves.

The owners are not heroes, they are morons who have allowed themselves to spend too much money and have dug a hole they now want the players to dig them out from.

If they had spent their money more responsibly, they would not be in this decision.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 06:52 PM
You bet they will... they all complain that they want some strict cap... but they will ALL be looking for ways to circumvent it the second a player comes along that they want

wtf does that have to do with ANYTHING?

i think u have some built up rage towards towards the owners or something.

blame the owners, fine. still means a new CBA needs done and the owners aren't going to sign one like the last.

ready to move on in the blame game?

jiggin
06-27-2011, 06:54 PM
actually... the players have given money back every step of the way.

every time there is a new cba... the players have to give something back. It is not a give and take... it is a constant take.

But I understand that this is business... and they have to make it work

My problem is the ignorant people that say stuff like the players are greedy and we will have a lockout b/c they want more money. That is blatently false. The latest player proposition is to cut their share from 57% of BRI to 54% of BRI (which is actually from 50% gross to 47% gross). They are offering to take a pay cut to cover the leagues losses...

but the owners countered that by asking for the players to reduce their cut to 37% or less... the greedy people at the table right now are the owners. Lets get that straight. We will havea lockout not b/c of players demands.... but b/c of the owners.

if u consider greed wanting to make something rather than lose millions...then yes...the owners are "greedy".

llemon
06-27-2011, 07:02 PM
wtf does that have to do with ANYTHING?

i think u have some built up rage towards towards the owners or something.

blame the owners, fine. still means a new CBA needs done and the owners aren't going to sign one like the last.

ready to move on in the blame game?

That has EVERYTHING to do with it.

The fact that you won't acknowledge that says all that needs to be known about your opinion.

daleja424
06-27-2011, 07:08 PM
if u consider greed wanting to make something rather than lose millions...then yes...the owners are "greedy".

I consider it greedy when the players offer to cover debts that they didn't create and the owners turn it down and offer back 37%.

I can understand owners wanting to make some money... but in reality... every year that passes their business increases in value.

In 2004, the average NBA team was worth 265 million dollars... now, 7 years later, 369 million dollars. So the average NBA owner has made 100 million dollars the past 7 years just by owning a team...

So... if the owners break even in the books... they are still gaining 14+ mil a year just in the value of their team increasing...

And lets be honest here... this may be a business... but the best owners in the NBA are the ones that own a team just for fun...

jiggin
06-27-2011, 07:14 PM
and there are two flaws with your arguement:

1. most nba teams are not losing money... they are only in the red when owners add loan interest to the books. It seems to me that if the billionaires decide to take out loans instead of pay cash for a team, they shouldnt be able to claim the interest they have to pay on those loans as a loss. A majority of NBA teams would be in the black if they took loan interest off the tab. And really... do you expect players to pay for the interest on the team's loans when they see none of the benefits of owning the team?

2. even if a team loses a million here or there... the value of franchises has gone up markedly in recent years. Any NBA owner could sell their team now and walk away with hundreds of millions in profits.

Team wouldn't exist if they didn't get that loan. Team doesn't exist then the players get NOTHING. Most of these "billionaires" are billionaires on paper. They don't have the cash on hand to buy any of this stuff. They put up assets against the loan, other business capital to grow their empires. So, yes...if the business is at a point where they can't continue financially as is, I think EVERYONE involved with that company has to sacrifice if they want to have a job tomorrow. You can always go work for another company right? :) oh...is that the problem? players don't have any other option that pays as well as their current gig? LOL just kidding :)

Who you going to sell to? very few people are going to be able to buy an NBA franchise to start with...then you have to sell them on the fact that its losing MILLIONS of dollars and has for a bit now under this CBA.

That's a pretty hard sell, for 75% of the franchise...or something like that...losing money right now.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 07:15 PM
That has EVERYTHING to do with it.

The fact that you won't acknowledge that says all that needs to be known about your opinion.

as I said later in the post...fine. Blame the owners. Now...what did that fix?

LOL


its about fixing it now, under this contract...that is what this discussion should be about.

llemon
06-27-2011, 07:17 PM
Team wouldn't exist if they didn't get that loan. Team doesn't exist then the players get NOTHING. Most of these "billionaires" are billionaires on paper. They don't have the cash on hand to buy any of this stuff. They put up assets against the loan, other business capital to grow their empires. So, yes...if the business is at a point where they can't continue financially as is, I think EVERYONE involved with that company has to sacrifice if they want to have a job tomorrow. You can always go work for another company right? :) oh...is that the problem? players don't have any other option that pays as well as their current gig? LOL just kidding :)

Who you going to sell to? very few people are going to be able to buy an NBA franchise to start with...then you have to sell them on the fact that its losing MILLIONS of dollars and has for a bit now under this CBA.

That's a pretty hard sell, for 75% of the franchise...or something like that...losing money right now.

You are just a management hack.

llemon
06-27-2011, 07:20 PM
as I said later in the post...fine. Blame the owners. Now...what did that fix?

LOL


its about fixing it now, under this contract...that is what this discussion should be about.

I gave you the solution. The owners stop spending money irresponsibly.

Next subject.

daleja424
06-27-2011, 07:23 PM
as I said later in the post...fine. Blame the owners. Now...what did that fix?

LOL


its about fixing it now, under this contract...that is what this discussion should be about.

I gave you a solution as well... owners needs to stop being greedy... they should except working around even for a couple of years (while their franchises continue to increase in worth) and then they will get a huge payoff with the new tv deals in 2015. You know what is the best way of increasing revenue in the league? playing basketball. You know what is the worst? a lockout.

locking out players is completely counter productive if they are trying to make money in the long term.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 07:23 PM
I consider it greedy when the players offer to cover debts that they didn't create and the owners turn it down and offer back 37%.

I can understand owners wanting to make some money... but in reality... every year that passes their business increases in value.

In 2004, the average NBA team was worth 265 million dollars... now, 7 years later, 369 million dollars. So the average NBA owner has made 100 million dollars the past 7 years just by owning a team...

So... if the owners break even in the books... they are still gaining 14+ mil a year just in the value of their team increasing...

And lets be honest here... this may be a business... but the best owners in the NBA are the ones that own a team just for fun...

Should we take a look at the % of increase in business revenue and ownership (business worth) compared to the % increase in players salary over that same time?

My bet is, the players payday was a much higher percentage. And that is fine, the owners gave it to them right? The issue is, the owners banked on by doing this, they would make more than they did in return. And it hasn't happened.

They are ready to change that...change the model in which the NBA not only pays its players but how it functions in the draft, with FA, with clauses to protect the owners AND players ect...

Sucks, but sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 07:25 PM
I gave you a solution as well... owners needs to stop being greedy... they should except working around even for a couple of years (while their franchises continue to increase in worth) and then they will get a huge payoff with the new tv deals in 2015. You know what is the best way of increasing revenue in the league? playing basketball. You know what is the worst? a lockout.

but the CBA will be on going. why keep losing money for X years in hopes it bounces back only to find out it isn't working...you aren't drawing fans if you don't pay out for big name players. I mean, isn't that what was attempted before? and the cycle continues...

...they want to break the cycle. I see nothing wrong with that. Its their business, not the players...and not mine.

daleja424
06-27-2011, 07:28 PM
Should we take a look at the % of increase in business revenue and ownership (business worth) compared to the % increase in players salary over that same time?

My bet is, the players payday was a much higher percentage. And that is fine, the owners gave it to them right? The issue is, the owners banked on by doing this, they would make more than they did in return. And it hasn't happened.

They are ready to change that...change the model in which the NBA not only pays its players but how it functions in the draft, with FA, with clauses to protect the owners AND players ect...

Sucks, but sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward.

Again... counter-productive...

The numbers don't lie... this was the most watched/analyzed year in NBA history according to just about all of the data. There is ZERO reason to change a system that works perfectly at generating interest. A tweak here or there is understandable... but scrapping a working system is just plain dumb.

You do not wait until the height of something to start to rebuild it... That is like the Bulls dynasty trading away Pippen and Jordan after their first championship...

daleja424
06-27-2011, 07:32 PM
but the CBA will be on going. why keep losing money for X years in hopes it bounces back only to find out it isn't working...you aren't drawing fans if you don't pay out for big name players. I mean, isn't that what was attempted before? and the cycle continues...

...they want to break the cycle. I see nothing wrong with that. Its their business, not the players...and not mine.

They won't... the players have already offered to cover their debts...which I have already explained to you 100 times... but a fact which you continue to ignore.

I am suggesting that the owners operate around even or even slightly in the black while they wait for the new tv deal. That is a step up from "losing money" (although I have already explained that they really aren't losing money for the most part).

The reason we have a lockout is b/c the owners want to win the lottery over night. They want to go from slight losses to tremendous gains in one quick move... and they want to do it at the players expense. That is unreasonable. They should be more than happy to go from modest losses to modest gains.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 07:34 PM
Again... counter-productive...

The numbers don't lie... this was the most watched/analyzed year in NBA history according to just about all of the data. There is ZERO reason to change a system that works perfectly at generating interest. A tweak here or there is understandable... but scrapping a working system is just plain dumb.

You do not wait until the height of something to start to rebuild it... That is like the Bulls dynasty trading away Pippen and Jordan after their first championship...

the media and viewer data has nothing to do with what is in the CBA.

it actually only proves that the owners are bringing the players in you want, no matter the cost to make you happy.

The financial situation should be way up since the popularity is so high. that only speaks volumes about it not working FINANCIALLY since they should be profiting big time from the amazing numbers...but aren't.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 07:36 PM
They won't... the players have already offered to cover their debts...which I have already explained to you 100 times... but a fact which you continue to ignore.

I am suggesting that the owners operate around even or even slightly in the black while they wait for the new tv deal. That is a step up from "losing money" (although I have already explained that they really aren't losing money for the most part).

The reason we have a lockout is b/c the owners want to win the lottery over night. They want to go from slight losses to tremendous gains in one quick move... and they want to do it at the players expense. That is unreasonable. They should be more than happy to go from modest losses to modest gains.


that still provides them with no protection going forward. They have to have that, its part of why they are in this mess. Every other successful pro sport with a similar cap situation has protection for the owners...except the NBA. go figure, its not a coincidence.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 07:38 PM
You are just a management hack.

no...its the actual way things work. Its not about black hat cowboys and white hat cowboys. Its not about the good and the evil. Everyone is on the same team...they all want the NBA to be successful and make money. They just need to restructure so that happens going forward. They WANT to be fighting over revenue sharing, like the NFL is right now. That is a wonderful problem to have...but they aren't turning a profit.

daleja424
06-27-2011, 07:42 PM
the media and viewer data has nothing to do with what is in the CBA.

it actually only proves that the owners are bringing the players in you want, no matter the cost to make you happy.

The financial situation should be way up since the popularity is so high. that only speaks volumes about it not working FINANCIALLY since they should be profiting big time from the amazing numbers...but aren't.

It all comes back on the owners...

If you own a business and make a bad investment... should we change the rules so that you aren't tempted to make another bad investment???

If you undid the 10 worst contracts in the NBA (Like Eddy Curry/Rashard Lewis type deals... the owners would be in the black).

I think it is absurd to think that we should change the system to protect bad investments. Bad investments cost everyone money. I have made bad investments before... I learned from them and moved on (with a lighter wallet)...

daleja424
06-27-2011, 07:45 PM
and a lot of the reported losses are calculated risks...

they come from owners that know the decisions are bad for the books but don't care... they just want to win... The Mickey Arrison's, the Mark Cuban's, the Rich Devo's...

Those owners do not want their decisions to be regulated... They are fine operating at a loss to win games.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 08:14 PM
It all comes back on the owners...

If you own a business and make a bad investment... should we change the rules so that you aren't tempted to make another bad investment???

If you undid the 10 worst contracts in the NBA (Like Eddy Curry/Rashard Lewis type deals... the owners would be in the black).

I think it is absurd to think that we should change the system to protect bad investments. Bad investments cost everyone money. I have made bad investments before... I learned from them and moved on (with a lighter wallet)...

Ok...so they need to learn from their mistakes. And walk away. Close the NBA.

There you go...you want extreme, you got it.

No business man in his right mind is going to continue down this same road. Its not working for the most important part of the team, the ownership groups that make it all possible.

Since that ISN'T what they everyone wants...then they need to find a way to still be able to attract big names to draw fans without having to place so much risk that destroys the bottom line if it goes bad.

All other successful pro sports with a cap have this...why is it so much to ask? are the NFL owners crazy for wanting to protect their businesses and asking for non-guaranteed contracts? No...that's smart business to protect their investment like that. That is just one example of something that isn't working in the NBA in how they are currently handling it. The list is LONG obviously...thus all the length in talks and trying to find common ground on some of the lesser issues to show progress.

kenzo400
06-27-2011, 08:18 PM
160k average here in USA Canada 100k France 80k Sweden 55k There is a huge difference in well and 105k more as in the case of USA vs Sweden Mexico is about 30k.

I have no idea where you are getting your statistics from.

Canada- average salary for (general practitioners) 139,681
This is taking into account part time doctors and it only takes into account doctors that are GP's. The specialists, like dermatologists, plastic surgeons make a lot more money.

In United states salary for (general practitioner) 175,000
164,000 family physician

As for the rest, they are making a lot more money. So the average cannot possibly be 160,000.

For Sweden i couldn't find the official figures. But i have a family friend who works there, awhile ago i asked him how much he made. He didn't tell me exactly but he said that doctors there generally make about half the amount that the ones in United States do. They are also heavily taxed, but the state covers a lot of things that in United States they dont (ex health care, university)

Anyways doctors are still making more money than the rest of the population.

As for Mexico, i really wouldn't put them in the same categoy as the rest of the first world industrialized nations. Also the average salary there is about 15 thousand dollars a year, so doctors are still making more than most people.

By the way i got all of these statistics off official government websites.

Korman12
06-27-2011, 08:25 PM
Cruel story yo

AnalyzeNShoot
06-27-2011, 08:30 PM
the coon was here!

Shmontaine
06-27-2011, 09:49 PM
i guess the owners are in a no-win situation... are some of you suggesting that all the gms collude together and have a value system for players?? that's the only way to 'control' spending... teams are forced to overpay in order to stay competitive... if they don't overpay in order to save money, they are now stingy, and their fanbase suffers... please explain how the teams should just not overpay players in the current system...

and yeah, people account for interest... interest has to be paid, how do you ignore it?? will the banks just ignore the interest owed to them?? and team worth is deceptive, it's not like they get money every year their team increases in value.... they simply have potential to get more money should they sell the team, which they don't...

the system is broken and the current cba has allowed players to make more than they should... is it the players fault?? of course not, any one of us would accept the deals the players did... but the problem is the system forces teams to overpay in order to get marginal players... unless, of course, everyone gets together to decide how much is too much for said players... which i'm pretty sure the players definitely don't want and also illegal... so the owners can't just 'not overpay players' they would lose all their fans...

the players are in a great position, they make millions of dollars to play a game that they love... they don't have to worry about arena building and upkeep, private team jets, corporate offices, they get most of their meals and transportation provided for them at no cost, etc... they've been getting raises in an economic recession that is affecting the owners who pay them... i don't know why some of you are so against a re-structure of the system...

some of you seem like you would rather the league be locked out and have the players' salaries stay high... the teams have been losing money, not the players... but yeah, screw those stupid stingy nba owners who are losing money because they gave the players more than they could afford... it's their own fault...

jiggin
06-27-2011, 09:55 PM
and a lot of the reported losses are calculated risks...

they come from owners that know the decisions are bad for the books but don't care... they just want to win... The Mickey Arrison's, the Mark Cuban's, the Rich Devo's...

Those owners do not want their decisions to be regulated... They are fine operating at a loss to win games.

and they are in the minority. and they still WANT to make money...


I think the main thing that we differ on is you want the owners to suck it up and try and offer less to players in the future to fix the problem. But we both know that won't happen because of the list of owners you gave above...as a perfect example.

It has to change legally via contract for all across the board...its the only way and it needs to be done now while they have the chance with this CBA. Its the perfect opportunity to do it.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 10:09 PM
no one is blaming anyone ...its not about blame. Its about fixing what is broken.

The players have been able to have it amazing over the last 20 years (CBA was started in 84 or 86 I believe). They have seen HUGE raises and paydays. That is awesome for them. But the gravy train has left the building. The owners are saying, sorry...we can't have it like this anymore. We need not only change, but major change for this to work going forward and everyone continue to get paid. Which means if this is going to continue, everyone is going to have to make sacrifices going forward till its straightened out.

I don't think its a bluff on the owners part, they NEED it to change.

There are other ways to do it besides a hard cap. I'm not in favor of a flex cap either either. They want revenue sharing I'm ok with that.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 10:13 PM
I don't see what this has to do with this business venture losing money. They make millions in business because they don't allow their businesses to be in the red for long. They only let this go this long because they were under a legally binding contract (the CBA). Otherwise, like their other successful ventures, they would have made drastic changes already.)

Now its time to start a new CBA and they are protecting themselves going forward so that the business can still exist.

Bottom line, owners need their investments in players for as part of their business to be protected. That means the players not only have to give, but have to venture into territory that is scary...but works in every other professional sport that has a cap.

If the players won't budge, there won't be a NBA to watch. Owners have cut all they can in other areas without it effecting the product they give the fans. Concessions have been cut...blah blah blah...and they are STILL losing money.

In fact, I would think the fans would be siding with owners because they are trying to find other ways to fix this BESIDES RAISING TICKET PRICES SOME UNGODLY AMOUNT. They know they can't do that and keep you as a fan...so, next up...the major focus of the franchises spending...the players. Nothing else to cut.

My point is I'm not going to hold a pity party for owners when their net worth far exceeds that of their employees.

How is the cap in the NFL working for the Lions or Raiders who have struggled for the past few yrs.

Shmontaine
06-27-2011, 10:14 PM
the bottom line is the owners have mismanaged their finances TO THE BENEFIT OF THE PLAYERS... the players are not the victims, neither the owners... the profits just aren't what everyone hoped they would be, and an adjustment needs to be made... right now, the players have it better than the owners....

Shmontaine
06-27-2011, 10:17 PM
My point is I'm not going to hold a pity party for owners when their net worth far exceeds that of their employees.

How is the cap in the NFL working for the Lions or Raiders who have struggled for the past few yrs.

net worth doesn't matter if you can't sell, and nobody is buying nba teams ATM... the 'employees' are the ones getting the liquid assets...

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 10:18 PM
I consider it greedy when the players offer to cover debts that they didn't create and the owners turn it down and offer back 37%.

I can understand owners wanting to make some money... but in reality... every year that passes their business increases in value.

In 2004, the average NBA team was worth 265 million dollars... now, 7 years later, 369 million dollars. So the average NBA owner has made 100 million dollars the past 7 years just by owning a team...

So... if the owners break even in the books... they are still gaining 14+ mil a year just in the value of their team increasing...

And lets be honest here... this may be a business... but the best owners in the NBA are the ones that own a team just for fun...

Not sure if it was mentioned in here but weren't the Golden State Warriors sold for an NBA record 450 million dollars?

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 10:25 PM
net worth doesn't matter if you can't sell, and nobody is buying nba teams ATM... the 'employees' are the ones getting the liquid assets...

The Warriors repeat the Warriors were sold for 450 million dollars. The Golden State Warriors of all teams.

Shmontaine
06-27-2011, 10:47 PM
The Warriors repeat the Warriors were sold for 450 million dollars. The Golden State Warriors of all teams.

i will stand corrected... but don't be fooled... 40% of that value is debt... the operating income for the team last year was 14 million... there were 20 nba players who made more than the golden state warriors last year...

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 10:58 PM
i will stand corrected... but don't be fooled... 40% of that value is debt... the operating income for the team last year was 14 million... there were 20 nba players who made more than the golden state warriors last year...

It was an honest mistake.

I understand where you're coming from. You made good points even though I didn't agree with them.

I enjoyed this discussion. A lot of great opinions exchanged today. I'm sure it will continue once the lockout starts. Hopefully it doesn't last long but more than likely it will.

Shmontaine
06-27-2011, 11:00 PM
heres to bball in november...

ChetSteadman
06-27-2011, 11:08 PM
Doesn't really bother me, but i think the disdain towards players legitimately having a gripe towards billionaires, stems from racism.

http://tinyurl.com/2bfvhtw

:clap:

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 11:22 PM
heres to bball in november...

*raises glass*

Swashcuff
06-27-2011, 11:36 PM
http://tinyurl.com/2bfvhtw

:clap:

:nod:

CowboysKB24
06-27-2011, 11:48 PM
It's a business. I would try to get as much as possible if I was in their situation. It is kind of like human nature.

DMasta718
06-28-2011, 02:24 AM
If it hasn't been mentioned already, I advise people to check out Ryen russilo podcast that happened yesterday. Good discussion on the labor situation.

llemon
06-28-2011, 12:00 PM
i guess the owners are in a no-win situation... are some of you suggesting that all the gms collude together and have a value system for players?? that's the only way to 'control' spending... teams are forced to overpay in order to stay competitive... if they don't overpay in order to save money, they are now stingy, and their fanbase suffers... please explain how the teams should just not overpay players in the current system.

Does this statement explain the contracts of Gilbert Arenas, Corey Maggette, Baron Davis, Mehmet Okur, Mo Williams and other ridiculously overpaid players not worthy of their paychecks?

Shmontaine
06-28-2011, 04:52 PM
^^ well yeah.. The wizards didn't want Gilbert to leave. Had they known no other team would offer him that much, they prolly would have lowered their offer. But how are the wizards going to let Gilbert go when he's the #1 option. You/we have the luxury of hindsight to say "what an awful contract". A lot of people thought arenas was a max player a the time.

As for the rest, again.. The owners have to overpay these guys in order to get them, if their offers are close to teams that are more 'contenders' there is no way said player will join he team. The system forces teams to overpay just to draw players to an undesireable location... It a downward cycle. That's what needs to be stopped.

Tony_Starks
06-28-2011, 05:44 PM
The owners want a quick fix on something they've taken years to screw up. They even want to go retro on the players contracts. People talk about the amount of teams losing money but look at those same teams and tell me how many have been managed poorly for years? Indianna? Charlotte? Detroit? Torronto? On and on and on..... These guys don't even understand the simple concept of rebuilding, so most of them continue to put a half a$$ed team on the floor thats just bad enough to miss the playoffs but just good enough to not get a high draft pick. Then they wonder why they're mediocre for years?

Taking away guaranteed contracts, which is what they want amongst other things, is not the answer. You're basically saying "well if I screw up and make a bad decision I still don't have to pay you." How about making a wise decision?

Shmontaine
06-28-2011, 05:49 PM
^^^ that's not what non-guaranteed means. If the player is eligible to play, he gets paid. DNPCD would not void the contract. Only injuries and the player not being ready and able to play. Hence, Gilbert wouldn't have been paid for two years.

8kobe24
06-28-2011, 06:25 PM
Tired of these BILLIONAIRE owners complaining about how little they are making.

llemon
06-28-2011, 07:00 PM
^^ well yeah.. The wizards didn't want Gilbert to leave. Had they known no other team would offer him that much, they prolly would have lowered their offer. But how are the wizards going to let Gilbert go when he's the #1 option. You/we have the luxury of hindsight to say "what an awful contract". A lot of people thought arenas was a max player a the time.

As for the rest, again.. The owners have to overpay these guys in order to get them, if their offers are close to teams that are more 'contenders' there is no way said player will join he team. The system forces teams to overpay just to draw players to an undesireable location... It a downward cycle. That's what needs to be stopped.

You, personally, didn't realize that Wizards should never have made ANY offer to Arenas?

Give me an honest answer.

Shmontaine
06-28-2011, 10:09 PM
^^ honestly. Idk. I'm a fan. Its easy for me to say "let him walk." but as an owner, when your only success has been with this guy at the helm. Along with no real prospects as a replacement?... Idk man. I thought it was high, just as I thought rudy gay's was high. But I really don't know what to expect my owner to do. Who else could they get that is clearly better that they could sell to the fans??? Is it a bad move, sure. Do the owners know this, prolly.. What choice would u give them, though??? Let their 'franchise' player walk? Idk, it's a tough call. I can only recall Shaquille leaving Orlando..

Fnom11
06-28-2011, 10:20 PM
Tired of organizations handing out outrageously bad contracts then trying to re-nig on them because it ended badly.

Shmontaine
06-28-2011, 10:46 PM
^^^. Welcome to the CBA discussion. This is what everybody wants... Are u going to add to discussion?? Guess not

Heediot
06-28-2011, 10:47 PM
What I'm saying is the players should not bend over backwards because the owners spent money like it was going out of style. No one put a gun to their head and told them Rashard Lewis was worth that type of money. No one told Isiah Thomas Jerome James was a a player that should be paid like a star. From what I see Gms and owners saw players excelling in small sample sizes and determined hey this guy is great we have to lock him up. Yes there are players in the league that are overpaid. I almost threw up when I found out Reddick is making 7 million a yr but with that being said no one told the owners to spend like trust fun babies.

There are a ton of bad contracts in the league but it's not our fault even though we're the ones that gave the players those contracts.

WTF

If every owner was like MJ right now, how much tickets would the league sell?
You need to spend money on players to satisfy the fans, it's a double edge sword for the majority of NBA teams.

Heediot
06-28-2011, 10:49 PM
The owners want a quick fix on something they've taken years to screw up. They even want to go retro on the players contracts. People talk about the amount of teams losing money but look at those same teams and tell me how many have been managed poorly for years? Indianna? Charlotte? Detroit? Torronto? On and on and on..... These guys don't even understand the simple concept of rebuilding, so most of them continue to put a half a$$ed team on the floor thats just bad enough to miss the playoffs but just good enough to not get a high draft pick. Then they wonder why they're mediocre for years?

Taking away guaranteed contracts, which is what they want amongst other things, is not the answer. You're basically saying "well if I screw up and make a bad decision I still don't have to pay you." How about making a wise decision?

The paradox of life is that there has to be teams that mismanage, its unavoidable. If there were 30 Sam Presti's atleast 12 would mismanage no?

Heediot
06-28-2011, 10:53 PM
A part of the problem is the league has teams in bad markets and has too many teams. This is why there are so many overpaid contracts. In fact the majority of NBA contracts are probably bad contracts. The market value for a guy like Rudy gay does not make sense. But if you don't make an effort to spend in order to create a winning team, fans turn their back on you.

I'm not saying it's the players fault, but these are some reasons why alot of teams are not profitable.

BigCityofDreams
06-28-2011, 10:55 PM
If every owner was like MJ right now, how much tickets would the league sell?
You need to spend money on players to satisfy the fans, it's a double edge sword for the majority of NBA teams.

True you need to spend money to show you're committed but at the same time it's wise to pass on someone because they aren't worth the money. The Knicks didn't need to spend big money on Jerome James

Heediot
06-28-2011, 10:57 PM
True you need to spend money to show you're committed but at the same time it's wise to pass on someone because they aren't worth the money. The Knicks didn't need to spend big money on Jerome James

The funny part is I bet the Knicks always make money lol.

BigCityofDreams
06-28-2011, 10:59 PM
The funny part is I bet the Knicks always make money lol.

True :D:D:D:D

MVPKOBE43
06-28-2011, 11:12 PM
Folks have a problem with how much the players make, but nobody complains about how much the owners make.

nobody really cares who makes what, I just think people want to watch their teams play, and we cant because the owners and players are arguing over money. If anyone really believes the owners are loosing money they are out of their minds. they make a profit without filling up the stands. they make it through ads, tv, merchandise, fans..... please.... owners losing money.. yeah right. if they were really losing money then they would prove it to the players and something would be worked out, but the players aint buying it.