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JordansBulls
06-25-2011, 11:08 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Au6a4Rn3_7ksVM_HylZlEOw5nYcB?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_draft_labor_war062511




The lockout’s coming, and the NBA can thank Stern for it. He no longer leads the owners, but gets led. He’s lost his autonomy to operate, lost his ability to be sensible, understated and conciliatory. There ought to be givebacks in these talks with the players, but Stern has let the fringe element of NBA ownership dictate policy for the masses. He doesn’t want a second lockout on his Hall of Fame plaque, but it’s coming and the burden belongs on him.

He can’t sell compromise, and he can’t sell good-faith negotiations to his ownership. The owners wanted this lockout, which they’ve carefully orchestrated. They’re determined to break the NBA’s union, and that’s clearly become the commissioner’s mandate now. The owners could’ve agreed to real revenue sharing, and the collective bargaining agreement would’ve been signed months ago. Stern can’t sell it, and the sport will suffer something fierce for it.

The NBA goes away now, and goes away for a long time. The final sound at the end of the draft’s first round will resonate over a long, hot summer – and maybe a winter – without basketball. This time a year ago, there was a Lakers championship with Kobe Bryant(notes), the summer of LeBron and a season of spectacular drama. Now, there was David Stern marching out of the boos of draft night, and into the boos of the board room.

He couldn’t sell the owners, couldn’t sell the players, and he can no longer sell the public. Here comes the summer of the NBA’s emperor, the lockout to end basketball lockouts. Tough Jersey guy buried all the bodies here, and now he comes to bury his sport. His legacy on the line, his fault.

Cano4prez
06-25-2011, 11:11 PM
:cry: No football or basketball

HeaTxRipZz
06-25-2011, 11:12 PM
Welp that's life it is what it is.....hopefully they get something done at some point. NFL and NBA are the only sports I really enjoy watching

Fmaranesi
06-25-2011, 11:13 PM
I love it baby, take away all my sports :bang:

TheRunKiller
06-25-2011, 11:13 PM
:(

LTBaByyy
06-25-2011, 11:13 PM
Good thing we won the championship

All these young teams getting better and the lock out ugh

tredigs
06-25-2011, 11:14 PM
Look at the bright side, maybe some forum members will actually get laid next year! Or at least take in a little vitamin D??

blastmasta26
06-25-2011, 11:18 PM
:cry:

allSUAVE
06-25-2011, 11:18 PM
NO FOOTBALL GRRRRR smh.

and Basketball

Dash
06-25-2011, 11:18 PM
**** you stern

dodie53
06-25-2011, 11:22 PM
:(

BigCityofDreams
06-25-2011, 11:23 PM
**** you stern

Blame the owners

LakersMaster24
06-25-2011, 11:28 PM
Look at the bright side, maybe some forum members will actually get laid next year! Or at least take in a little vitamin D??

Some people here with 15,000+ posts in a year, really need to do that.

Wade>You
06-25-2011, 11:31 PM
But I thought the Heat losing was supposed to renew faith in the owners and in every fan in the world?

Either way, Woj is a douche that feasts upon simpletons, so we can expect the NBA to be here in 2011-2012.

Storch
06-25-2011, 11:31 PM
Down with Stern! Crucify him! Crucify him!

More-Than-Most
06-25-2011, 11:32 PM
If there is a lockout who would it hurt more... A young team or an older team? Basically as examples a sixers team who is young and on the rise or a lakers team that is still a top team but older? Figured it would be a good topic of conversation as well.

WadeCounty
06-25-2011, 11:33 PM
Some people here with 15,000+ posts in a year, really need to do that.

i totally agree

Master Mind
06-25-2011, 11:34 PM
There will be a season, guaranteed!

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-25-2011, 11:40 PM
Damn. Everyone join the hockey bandwagon!

NYKnicksAllDay
06-25-2011, 11:40 PM
:cry:

SA5195
06-25-2011, 11:43 PM
:cry: :cry:

towlsmoke420
06-25-2011, 11:43 PM
at least lebron will not have a chance for a ring for another year...

downside is that kobe is getting older...

towlsmoke420
06-25-2011, 11:43 PM
this sucks

Punk
06-25-2011, 11:44 PM
Wojina is freaking over exaggerating again. Pay him no mind. He goes out on rants against everyone and makes himself look stupid in the end.

Look, the NBA insiders are saying this is a SHORTENED season. There is no indication, there will be a full year lockout.

Alot would have been noted up until this point about that.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-25-2011, 11:45 PM
Wojina is freaking over exaggerating again. Pay him no mind. He goes out on rants against everyone and makes himself look stupid in the end.

Look, the NBA insiders are saying this is a SHORTENED season. There is no indication, there will be a full year lockout.

Alot would have been noted up until this point about that.

A-Woj and Spears are the best two NBA insiders what are you talking about.

bears88
06-25-2011, 11:51 PM
well the NFL lockout might end soon at least that's something positive

Sadds The Gr8
06-25-2011, 11:53 PM
this ****in sucks...

KnicksR4Real
06-25-2011, 11:57 PM
stern is so god damn gay

asandhu23
06-26-2011, 12:00 AM
FIRE STERN!!! fire STERN!!!

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-26-2011, 12:01 AM
I actually don't think this is Stern's fault. Its small market owners who give ridiculous contracts to players and then complain they can't pay them so now they will try to use this to their advantage.

bears88
06-26-2011, 12:05 AM
I knew this day would come when the NFL and the NBA would get locked out.

Kevj77
06-26-2011, 12:07 AM
I actually don't think this is Stern's fault. Its small market owners who give ridiculous contracts to players and then complain they can't pay them so now they will try to use this to their advantage.I've also heard the lockout is as much about small market owners vs. large markets owners as it is between players and owners. If the owners could agree on revenue sharing the lockout would be over much faster, but instead they want to break the players union and force the players to take a deal that will make all the owners happy without having to settle their differences.

GiantsSwaGG
06-26-2011, 12:11 AM
Wojina is freaking over exaggerating again. Pay him no mind. He goes out on rants against everyone and makes himself look stupid in the end.

Look, the NBA insiders are saying this is a SHORTENED season. There is no indication, there will be a full year lockout.

Alot would have been noted up until this point about that.

:facepalm: He's a legit source.

BigCityofDreams
06-26-2011, 12:12 AM
I've also heard the lockout is as much about small market owners vs. large markets owners as it is between players and owners. If the owners could agree on revenue sharing the lockout would be over much faster, but instead they want to break the players union and force the players to take a deal that will make all the owners happy without having to settle their differences.

Similar to what's going on in the NFL.

ManRam
06-26-2011, 12:14 AM
He's over exaggerating, for sure. He always does this...he's a shock-columnist for the most part. However, he does touch on some solid points here.

But like I've been saying for months, the NBA and the NBA players are further apart in what they want than the NFL and their players. It is going to be an ugly one...

iamsteel
06-26-2011, 12:15 AM
what if 50% of the players went to play in the international leagues? that would be funny as hell

Byronicle
06-26-2011, 12:17 AM
Look at the bright side, maybe some forum members will actually get laid next year! Or at least take in a little vitamin D??

hahahaahah

:rofl:

Punk
06-26-2011, 12:19 AM
A-Woj and Spears are the best two NBA insiders what are you talking about.

A-Woj has been a joke and exposed as one more than three times this year.

If anyone with common sense reads that, It's a direct attack at Stern rather than detailed reason of a full year lockout.

The whole issue is soft cap vs hard cap. The owners do not want a lockout because it still hurts business anyhow. There is no way in hell, we would be sitting here and not hear stuff about a long term lockout.

John Walls Era
06-26-2011, 12:21 AM
As long as the NFL is on (or at least one of the 2), I'll be happy.

Stuckey#3
06-26-2011, 12:24 AM
But I thought the Heat losing was supposed to renew faith in the owners and in every fan in the world?

Either way, Woj is a douche that feasts upon simpletons, so we can expect the NBA to be here in 2011-2012.

He is more accurate than Dwyer and the other douchebags at Yahoo
Plus he is not always up on LeChokes nuts.

FUKudomeYOMOMMA
06-26-2011, 12:24 AM
u guys know how much stern is making a year?

23 milllion.... http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/92078#more-92078

c'mon man!!!!

pd1dish
06-26-2011, 12:36 AM
i wouldnt buy into this just yet. a lot of things can change in the coming months. i thinks its realistic to say that some of the season will be missed, but the players will start to miss their paychecks and cave in to some of the owners requests.

stawka
06-26-2011, 12:41 AM
Fml!

Mile High Champ
06-26-2011, 12:49 AM
There is always hockey..Haha

knicksfan42
06-26-2011, 12:55 AM
What ****ing revenue sharing I read that the owners have collectively lost money. So what are they going to share, the ****ing losses? If the majority of the owners (22 of them) are losing money what incentive is there for them to keep there teams? Seriously their is none. Even if there was complete revenue sharing in which every team pooled its revenue and all of the teams split it equally amongst themselves no one would make a profit, because the NBA collectively lost money. The players have to start conceding, because the lockout is going to hurt them far more than the owners.

iFYouSeekAmy
06-26-2011, 12:57 AM
Life without football not basketball. Great. Mayans were right.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-26-2011, 01:11 AM
A-Woj has been a joke and exposed as one more than three times this year.

If anyone with common sense reads that, It's a direct attack at Stern rather than detailed reason of a full year lockout.

The whole issue is soft cap vs hard cap. The owners do not want a lockout because it still hurts business anyhow. There is no way in hell, we would be sitting here and not hear stuff about a long term lockout.

What were the other times than?

LakersMaster24
06-26-2011, 02:13 AM
I ll focus on my LA Kings now haha I totally skipped this entire season :(

NYKnicksAllDay
06-26-2011, 02:42 AM
stern is so god damn gay

This.

Bunta
06-26-2011, 02:48 AM
yikes

LA_Raiders
06-26-2011, 03:19 AM
Stern must go... He is a greedy cheater...

LA_Raiders
06-26-2011, 03:20 AM
Soccer Rules Now...

Mex 4 - US 2 Dang those maxicans look real good...

Arch Stanton
06-26-2011, 03:26 AM
It sounds like the Basketball lockout is going to be worse than Football's.

SportsFanatic10
06-26-2011, 03:34 AM
He's over exaggerating, for sure. He always does this...he's a shock-columnist for the most part. However, he does touch on some solid points here.

But like I've been saying for months, the NBA and the NBA players are further apart in what they want than the NFL and their players. It is going to be an ugly one...

my thoughts exactly. i've been optimistic with the nfl most of the time but this doesn't look good.

KingPosey
06-26-2011, 04:17 AM
This thread has already been made, Mods can close this one JB.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18365180#post18365180

And how come all anyone did was **** on the other thread, or ignore it, and this one is getting respect?

BrokenAnkles
06-26-2011, 04:35 AM
I hope that ESPN actually starts to cover Hockey since it will be the only sport on in November:p

I hope that what I just said doesn't actually happen, but I think I'm not the only one out there who would like to see more hockey.

meloman1592
06-26-2011, 04:36 AM
No football or basketball...i might as well die.

Law25
06-26-2011, 05:22 AM
I see over seas leagues getting better, and Europe being the center of all sports entertainment NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol naw but serioulsy i dont know what to expect this year.

3ballbomber
06-26-2011, 05:26 AM
hhmm i posted this article and all it got was 'this is propaganda" replies.

LOOTERX9
06-26-2011, 05:28 AM
Don't listen to Woj. He is over exaggerating the situation like he always do. Plus he's a *******...

Tom Stone
06-26-2011, 06:07 AM
My opinion is needed .......because alot of guys don't seem to understand .....22 of 30 teams lost money......if I was an owner, that was losing money....I would want a lock out as well.....yes more revenue sharing must be done among the owners, to make it easier for small market teams....You must have the big picture in view here....with teams like the Laker's, Dallas spending as much as they do, because of this soft cap...it becoming who has the most money, has the best chance....and sports should always be on a level playing Field, that's why baseball is so messed up....yankee's buy them selfs a trip to the world series every year....it's pathetic....and any one who supports a system like that is pathetic as well.........I want to save Basketball, not just next season, but forever......and our system is broken, players getting paid as much as they do is crazy....instead of buying 15 houses, a player can now buy 10....they will still have it better then everyone else on the planet........keep up the good work stern...break the union....Save basketball !

JJ_JKidd
06-26-2011, 06:57 AM
This is just so sad :(

trini_knickfan
06-26-2011, 07:10 AM
Great this should make the wife happy :(

PHX2daDEATH
06-26-2011, 07:16 AM
well im forced to watch baseball...

jiggin
06-26-2011, 07:27 AM
so...

If there is a lockout, and no season happens this fall, does that mean all the players on 1 year contracts will have expiring contracts the next season when the play resumes?

If so...that would shed a little better light on why some teams moved 1 year left contracts in order to get younger...or why the off-season moves have been a little slow in coming around; the uncertainty with rosters and short contacts with a lockout looming.

Anyone got an some light to shed on this? It may be an obvious answer I am just not thinking or putting enough effort into figuring out myself. :)

netsgiantsyanks
06-26-2011, 07:46 AM
well, at least i can catch up with my masturbation training

24/7
06-26-2011, 08:30 AM
I actually don't think this is Stern's fault. Its small market owners who give ridiculous contracts to players and then complain they can't pay them so now they will try to use this to their advantage.

this.

Denver-boy
06-26-2011, 08:41 AM
Wtf?? No football no basketball??? The suicide rating will triple if were forced to watch baseball or golf

ne3xchamps
06-26-2011, 08:57 AM
I hope that ESPN actually starts to cover Hockey since it will be the only sport on in November:p

I hope that what I just said doesn't actually happen, but I think I'm not the only one out there who would like to see more hockey.

I'm with you bro!

justinnum1
06-26-2011, 09:09 AM
Its not even the players...its big market owners vs. small market owners. I have no problem waiting a few extra months if its for the better. No reason for the players to bend over right now.

jiggin
06-26-2011, 09:17 AM
I think the owners have every right to do this. After all...they are the OWNERS. The players are the employees, lets not forget this. Its a business, the entertainment business. If the employees are making more than the owners, there is a problem. And if the owners are losing money...there is an even bigger problem.

Somehow, society has this all *** backwards, thinking the players are the ones that are being wronged blah blah blah.

If I were an owner, and I were losing money, the next step is to get out of the biz if I can't get this salary situation under control. Can't continue to raise ticket prices and merch. prices to try and make up the difference...so...

Reversed86Curse
06-26-2011, 09:21 AM
I think the owners have every right to do this. After all...they are the OWNERS. The players are the employees, lets not forget this. Its a business, the entertainment business. If the employees are making more than the owners, there is a problem. And if the owners are losing money...there is an even bigger problem.

Somehow, society has this all *** backwards, thinking the players are the ones that are being wronged blah blah blah.

If I were an owner, and I were losing money, the next step is to get out of the biz if I can't get this salary situation under control. Can't continue to raise ticket prices and merch. prices to try and make up the difference...so...

This. Salaries across all sports are out of control

GoPacers33
06-26-2011, 09:24 AM
Can at least one of the lockouts end. Plzzzz

Mishmin
06-26-2011, 09:32 AM
****

Bornknick73
06-26-2011, 10:11 AM
I dont know why they are making it so difficult.

60 mil hard cap.
50-50 profit split down from 57-43 player split
non-guaranteed contracts
14-15 mil max contracts
contract restructuring
increase revenue sharing
lower rookie salaries
Eiminate opt- out clauses
Max contracts after 5 years of service
Relocate poor revenue generating teams


Done! The owners need non-guaranteed contracts. Too many times a player is making big money and they dont even play or they dont play up to their pay scale. They need the ability to cut those players who are dead weight.

Contract restructuring could also be a huge help to the teams. Im sure if a player wanted to improve his team he'd restructure his contract to fit a few nice players on his team, NFL players do it all the time.

Relocation instead of contraction. Las Vegas, San Diego, Seattle, St. Louis are cities that can generate big money for a franchise. Stop putting teams in places where they cant make money. Memphis, Charlotte, Milwaukee are prime examples of teams that could use a relocation.

Eliminate opt-out clauses. We all seen the circus a opt-out clause can cause. It hurts the game if a player dosent have to fulfill the full duration of his contract. You sign for 5 years you stay for 5 years, period!

I feel this is fair for both parties

Bornknick73
06-26-2011, 10:13 AM
Can at least one of the lockouts end. Plzzzz

The NFL is very close to getting a new CBA done

steelmanron100
06-26-2011, 10:29 AM
Wojo is assuming the worst way too early. In the beginning, everyone can hold strong in a game of " Chicken "...and talk tough like the both sides are. But, as time goes on, and those two cars come closer to each other is when you see just how tough & strong they truly are. And in this case, the players will bow down cause 80 % of them are just the lower level type of players who are making average wages...or average as it goes to elite NBA wages. Sure the Dwight's, and Kobe's and the likes will and can hold strong. But those types are few and far between. Right now we are in the early stages of this game of Chicken. And Wojo is just assuming the worst cause in this early stage, BOTH sides right now are talking tough, and not moving off their stand.

But as I said, when the cars become close to one another, then you will see things change. Season is still a long way off. And things can and will change.

bomber0104
06-26-2011, 11:00 AM
Why are they blaming Stern and Owners...

Would you be happy with a team that loses money and has no chance of competing with the big boys year after year.

The truth is the players make way too much money and they are the ones to blame

The_Pharouh
06-26-2011, 11:06 AM
Why are they blaming Stern and Owners...

Would you be happy with a team that loses money and has no chance of competing with the big boys year after year.

The truth is the players make way too much money and they are the ones to blame

the players are the reason we watch the game,and they have already accepted to take less money,how can we blame them?

Also I like the fact that I am soccer fan more and more :p

jiggin
06-26-2011, 11:55 AM
the players are the reason we watch the game,and they have already accepted to take less money,how can we blame them?

Also I like the fact that I am soccer fan more and more :p

NO...the owners are the reason you are watching the game. If they didn't own that team and put all the stuff together (stadium/vendors/electricity/water ect..) that they front to try and make money on their business...you wouldn't be watching those players (who are their employees) play the sport.

Don't put the cart before the horse. NONE of this would be available if the owners didn't have the business and run the business and give these guys who play sports for a living a job to play sports for a living.

Its like people forget that this is a business and that if its not making money, its not worth these owners having a team and having that business. Can't sell the business easily if you are losing money every year (in the millions) and you can't stop that because one of the major reasons (players demands) can't be changed.

Its like the coffee shop down the street from you. It doesn't exist in this world to serve you coffee. It exists in this world because someone who owns it is trying to make money off of offering you their coffee. And if that coffee shop had employees demanding more money in wages than the coffee shop was making per day in profit, that coffee shop would shut down pretty quick.

desertlakeshow
06-26-2011, 11:57 AM
For the inability of the owners to make sound business decisions. Blame the players and make them save the owners from themselves and there really bad management skills.

Players don't write contracts, nor do they offer large sums of money to overrated ball players for many years that they know they will not want to see to the end.

Crybaby owners and their pathetic attempt to place the blame on the Player's is really low.

The player's have to save the owners from themselves. Totally pathetic and you guys blaming the players and the union are a bunch of Tools.


Complete Tools.

jiggin
06-26-2011, 12:02 PM
I hope you own your own business with your own employees someday...think it will give you a whole new perspective on the topic.

It still won't be the same...I mean, you aren't fighting for employees like NBA owners are, with agents hiking the price tag up and fans arguing that if you don't sign said big money players they won't come to your stadium and pay you for tickets...but I regress since it sounds like you love the players making huge money but don't want to pay any large sums for tickets/merch ect...

I got an idea...since you don't want the players to suffer...lets make every game on tv or radio have to be paid for and then lets have them also increase ticket prices...

...now, aren't you glad you are backing and saving those multimillion dollar players from having to take a pay cut?

PS - when and where in this world is it ok for the employees to tell the owner how to run their business, especially a billion dollar business? A Co-Op...but that really isn't the same thing now is it.

smith&wesson
06-26-2011, 12:12 PM
the good news is they have untill late october to work things out. that should be more then ample time. If it lasts through the winter im sure the owners realize that they will be losing money ... im hopefull that it all works out by late october.

smith&wesson
06-26-2011, 12:17 PM
I hope you own your own business with your own employees someday...think it will give you a whole new perspective on the topic.

It still won't be the same...I mean, you aren't fighting for employees like NBA owners are, with agents hiking the price tag up and fans arguing that if you don't sign said big money players they won't come to your stadium and pay you for tickets...but I regress since it sounds like you love the players making huge money but don't want to pay any large sums for tickets/merch ect...

I got an idea...since you don't want the players to suffer...lets make every game on tv or radio have to be paid for and then lets have them also increase ticket prices...

...now, aren't you glad you are backing and saving those multimillion dollar players from having to take a pay cut?

PS - when and where in this world is it ok for the employees to tell the owner how to run their business, especially a billion dollar business? A Co-Op...but that really isn't the same thing now is it.

while some players like wade ane lebron took a pay cut to play together already other players such as kobe are making like 30 million a year. Some sacrifices will have to be made on both sides for a deal to be agreed apaun. I agree with you the players gotta give a little bit too.

on a different note,would you say if the players took a pay cut, but the cap was set to 63 million, would that mean that teams would have more money to sign players ? seems like logic but theres soo many minor details in the nba in terms of contracts and signings.

also, again i agree with you.. the players cant dictate the way owners run theyre business BUT imagine your getting paid about 70 k right now and your boss aproaches you and says if you want to keep your job you may have to take a 15 % decrease in pay. that might not sit well with you either right

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-26-2011, 12:33 PM
i'm with you bro!

x3

pedsdmd
06-26-2011, 02:06 PM
College basketball is gonna be scouted like a motha this year :)

BigCityofDreams
06-26-2011, 02:15 PM
Why are they blaming Stern and Owners...

Would you be happy with a team that loses money and has no chance of competing with the big boys year after year.

The truth is the players make way too much money and they are the ones to blame

Because they're the ones staging a lockout. I'm not saying that there aren't issues with the system but the owners/league made bad business decisions over the yrs. There are certain areas that can't even support a team do the players get blamed for that.

jiggin
06-26-2011, 03:19 PM
on a different note,would you say if the players took a pay cut, but the cap was set to 63 million, would that mean that teams would have more money to sign players ? seems like logic but theres soo many minor details in the nba in terms of contracts and signings.

There are so many other details. I think that the owners will be happy with a realistic cap in place, with some reduction in salaries and with a non guaranteed contracts. I just don't see a way around the owners being profitable without that final piece. The NFL was struggling, changed to this form of contracts and they are making billions now. Its a safety net on those large contracts and getting what you are paying for.



also, again i agree with you.. the players cant dictate the way owners run theyre business BUT imagine your getting paid about 70 k right now and your boss aproaches you and says if you want to keep your job you may have to take a 15 % decrease in pay. that might not sit well with you either right

I would be upset, but that is the state of our current economy. Many people are being asked to take cuts in many different industries. Annual raises have been halted in a lot of industry and people are having much worse happen to them than cuts; they are being let go completely to keep the business and ownership profitable.

What these players are asking for is insulting to the normal American worker, IMO.

This isn't directed at you but I wanted to mention that the league average for a player in his first year is close to $500,000 dollars. That dollar average only goes up with the number of years you are in the league. That is a lot of money to people in the united states...and to hear these guys ***** and complain about money really is sickening.

bomber0104
06-26-2011, 03:30 PM
People keep saying that its the owners fault for making bad decisions and giving bad players big contracts..

well if ur a small market team that plays in a city where no superstar wants to play, how else are you gonna sell the fans on the team??

jiggin
06-26-2011, 03:31 PM
Because they're the ones staging a lockout. I'm not saying that there aren't issues with the system but the owners/league made bad business decisions over the yrs. There are certain areas that can't even support a team do the players get blamed for that.

its a business. its the owners business. its his to do what he wants with it.

The sad part is, by not playing the players and not having a season, some of these owners aren't going to lose much more than they currently are losing. That is what drives for change and why they may vote to go with a lockout next week.

I say, let all these basketball players go get other jobs and see if they change their mind about some of the crap they are *****ing about. Go get a job that doesn't pay you 500,000+ a year. I bet they agree to almost anything then.

prima donnas.

todu82
06-26-2011, 03:45 PM
Really to bad here, still it's only June yet, season don't start until late October, gives them a bit of time to iron out a deal in an effort to have a season.

FlakeyFool
06-26-2011, 03:51 PM
NBA needs a NHL type cap.

ink
06-26-2011, 03:56 PM
Look at the bright side, maybe some forum members will actually get laid next year! Or at least take in a little vitamin D??

Haha

ink
06-26-2011, 03:58 PM
Don't have a horse in this race. Neither the owners or the players are guiltless. They built something that is not sustainable together and now they can't figure out what to do. Life goes on ...

llemon
06-26-2011, 04:01 PM
People keep saying that its the owners fault for making bad decisions and giving bad players big contracts..

well if ur a small market team that plays in a city where no superstar wants to play, how else are you gonna sell the fans on the team??

By using the draft and spending money on players wisely.

What possible good can signing a bad player to a big contract bring to a team?

smith&wesson
06-26-2011, 04:03 PM
testing my sig from knicksr4real

jiggin
06-26-2011, 04:04 PM
testing my sig from knicksr4real

you don't need to post pad to do this...just go to your profile and into the options section. it will show you your current sig when you have it uploaded properly.

there you go...

SpeedyRecovery
06-26-2011, 04:29 PM
they need to put in a hard cap to make every team be able to compete. dynasty teams have made the league terribly predictable MOST of the times. loved seeing the mavs take down the heat though.. go raps go!

tbone2171
06-26-2011, 04:52 PM
nba needs a nhl type cap.

go jets!

heyman321
06-26-2011, 07:14 PM
go jets!

Lmao I literally laughed out loud at your sig picture.

NBA_Starter
06-26-2011, 07:59 PM
I hope he's wrong!

THE MTL
06-26-2011, 08:30 PM
I dont understand these owners! They knew the lockout was coming but still opted to give out these HEFTY contract extensions!

Bulls owner- you still have Noah for another year and as a RFA.....why throw 70 million at him?...and then complain to the board room.

Grizzlies owner- you gave Zach Randolph another MAX contract basically.....why throw 75 million at him when you still had him?

rtcrules
06-26-2011, 10:52 PM
the good news is they have untill late october to work things out. that should be more then ample time. If it lasts through the winter im sure the owners realize that they will be losing money ... im hopefull that it all works out by late october.

The problem is 2/3 of the owners have already realized that they are losing money and can't continue in the long term. This is the system the owners wanted and its still not enough. The problem is the owners. They spend too much on mid-level talent. LeBron and Kobe bring butts in the seats every night and are probably underpaid in the NBA Universe. But there are to many max contracts given to players who have no business making Lebron and Kobe money. You can't blame the players for taking every penny they can get cause I know I would.

A doom & gloom attitude isn't needed. This lockout will look a lot like the last one ('98?). The owners will win, and win big. They are already in the red, they can ride it out. The players aren't ready and when to many start missing house payments and selling cars, they will fold. Like the great Patrick Ewing said, "we make a lot of money, but we spend a lot of money."

BigCityofDreams
06-26-2011, 10:59 PM
People keep saying that its the owners fault for making bad decisions and giving bad players big contracts..

well if ur a small market team that plays in a city where no superstar wants to play, how else are you gonna sell the fans on the team??

Life isn't always fair though. It's not a big market team's problem that a small market can't draw superstars. Some places do better than others. The Knicks sucked for a decade but still had fans lined up while the Nets were a top team in the East but had struggles with their attendance. The Hornets are losing money because New Orleans is not a basketball town it's a NFL and college football town. Stick to drafting the right players and make smart decisions. I'm not saying it's that easy but what other choice do they have.

BigCityofDreams
06-26-2011, 11:01 PM
its a business. its the owners business. its his to do what he wants with it.

The sad part is, by not playing the players and not having a season, some of these owners aren't going to lose much more than they currently are losing. That is what drives for change and why they may vote to go with a lockout next week.

I say, let all these basketball players go get other jobs and see if they change their mind about some of the crap they are *****ing about. Go get a job that doesn't pay you 500,000+ a year. I bet they agree to almost anything then.

prima donnas.

Go a step further get rid of the league all together and never bring it back if the owners are losing a ton of money and the players won't budge.


The problem is 2/3 of the owners have already realized that they are losing money and can't continue in the long term. This is the system the owners wanted and its still not enough. The problem is the owners. They spend too much on mid-level talent. LeBron and Kobe bring butts in the seats every night and are probably underpaid in the NBA Universe. But there are to many max contracts given to players who have no business making Lebron and Kobe money. You can't blame the players for taking every penny they can get cause I know I would.

A doom & gloom attitude isn't needed. This lockout will look a lot like the last one ('98?). The owners will win, and win big. They are already in the red, they can ride it out. The players aren't ready and when to many start missing house payments and selling cars, they will fold. Like the great Patrick Ewing said, "we make a lot of money, but we spend a lot of money."

Reddick makes what 7 mil a yr wtf

BigCityofDreams
06-26-2011, 11:05 PM
By using the draft and spending money on players wisely.

What possible good can signing a bad player to a big contract bring to a team?


It's like the person that goes into a mall to buy one thing but leaves with seven items and blames the displays in the window for their sending spree.

BigCityofDreams
06-26-2011, 11:08 PM
they need to put in a hard cap to make every team be able to compete. dynasty teams have made the league terribly predictable MOST of the times. loved seeing the mavs take down the heat though.. go raps go!


The NFL has a hard cap and the Lions are still at the bottom of the league. Outside of the a few yrs with Kurt Warner the Cardinals have been terrible. Just because a hard cap is in place it doesn't mean every team will be able to compete.

knicksfan42
06-26-2011, 11:21 PM
also, again i agree with you.. the players cant dictate the way owners run theyre business BUT imagine your getting paid about 70 k right now and your boss aproaches you and says if you want to keep your job you may have to take a 15 % decrease in pay. that might not sit well with you either right

Bad example here's a better one: imagine you're getting paid 250K and and your boss approaches you and says the business is losing massive amounts of money and unless he decreases your salary (by 15%) and the salaries of other employees he will close the business, because not only is it not profitable its losing massive amounts of money so if you want to keep earning in the 200k+ range you'll take a pay cut (if you don't you could go to a competitor who'd be willing to pay 50k).

knicksfan42
06-26-2011, 11:36 PM
It's like the person that goes into a mall to buy one thing but leaves with seven items and blames the displays in the window for their sending spree.

Its more like you go into a mall and buy a computer which breaks down the next day (you expected to use it for 3+ years), but you can't return it and are out a grand.

FriedTofuz
06-26-2011, 11:50 PM
The NBA is going away for a long time, the question is, how long?

OC Knights #11
06-27-2011, 12:02 AM
There will be Football this season, a deal will be made in the next week or so. As for the NBA, I see no signs of a next season for basketball. And quite frankly, i'm happy about it. The league needs a lot of work done. Down sizing a lot of players egos, getting rid of all the referees, bring in new ones. The NBA has become ghetto, classless, dirty and puts out pre-determined outcomes.

Federal Reserve
06-27-2011, 12:12 AM
This article is yellow journalism being used at its finest.

nickdymez
06-27-2011, 12:19 AM
But I thought the Heat losing was supposed to renew faith in the owners and in every fan in the world?

Either way, Woj is a douche that feasts upon simpletons, so we can expect the NBA to be here in 2011-2012.

I was reading your sig and i have one question.... You mad?

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 12:25 AM
There will be Football this season, a deal will be made in the next week or so. As for the NBA, I see no signs of a next season for basketball. And quite frankly, i'm happy about it. The league needs a lot of work done. Down sizing a lot of players egos, getting rid of all the referees, bring in new ones. The NBA has become ghetto, classless, dirty and puts out pre-determined outcomes.

:facepalm:

Wrong on so many levels. This isn't the Iverson, Marbury, Steve Francis era. The face of the league is guys like Lebron, Wade, CP3, Howard, etc.

TopsyTurvy
06-27-2011, 12:29 AM
Stern loses this season due to how badly he lost the last two negotiations.

Now there are new owners in in several cities (the cadre of former/current NHL owners) who have endured the loss of a season in another sport to get the deal done that 'fixed' the NHL.

There's nothing unexpected here. I'll gladly be using my season tickets if games are played but I certainly don't have any expectations.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 12:32 AM
How is the NHL doing with the new system? Is the game better now than it was then? How are the ratings for the games?

PrettyBoyJ
06-27-2011, 12:57 AM
look at the bright side, maybe some forum members will actually get laid next year! Or at least take in a little vitamin d??

lmfaoooo

THE GIPPER
06-27-2011, 01:05 AM
How is the NHL doing with the new system? Is the game better now than it was then? How are the ratings for the games?

The NHL is doing WAY better than before the lockout. Tv ratings are up, the game is much faster and more exciting to watch and it is an extremely competitive league. I am not exaggerating at all when I say that at the beginning of the year any team has at least a chance at winning the Stanley cup, which can't be said about the NBA. If there is an NBA lockout they should really look at what the NHL did and try to do what the NHL did cuz they did great.

camador22
06-27-2011, 01:35 AM
I side with the owners more then the players, but there are changes that need to happen on both sides to win.

-Reduce player salaries by 1/3
-No hard cap there other ways in reducing budget
-Additional perks for players that stay in their home teams
-Cut under performing franchises such as the Bobcats and Hornets

THE GIPPER
06-27-2011, 01:47 AM
I side with the owners more then the players, but there are changes that need to happen on both sides to win.

-Reduce player salaries by 1/3
-No hard cap there other ways in reducing budget
-Additional perks for players that stay in their home teams
-Cut under performing franchises such as the Bobcats and Hornets

Hard cap is a good thing. It levels the playing field so much and doesn't allow teams with the biggest paycheck to win every year. It forces you to actually build a team the right way (draft). Basically it would keep the nba from becoming like major league baseball where the same teams are good ever single year and its all about who will pay the most.

SFGiants4life
06-27-2011, 02:33 AM
sucks since i was starting to get back into Sac Kings basketball but to me
all that matters is baseball is still alive and well :)

AnalyzeNShoot
06-27-2011, 02:35 AM
Guess I will give Euro B-ball a shoot then

THINKBLUE15
06-27-2011, 02:44 AM
Wtf?? No football no basketball??? The suicide rating will triple if were forced to watch baseball or golf

Both are amazing sports. I know they don't hit each other and jump high though.

LA_Raiders
06-27-2011, 02:57 AM
Bad example here's a better one: imagine you're getting paid 250K and and your boss approaches you and says the business is losing massive amounts of money and unless he decreases your salary (by 15%) and the salaries of other employees he will close the business, because not only is it not profitable its losing massive amounts of money so if you want to keep earning in the 200k+ range you'll take a pay cut (if you don't you could go to a competitor who'd be willing to pay 50k).

agree... Lebroom would have plenty of time to spend his millions, and we will be stuck without BBall...

hans dolo
06-27-2011, 03:27 AM
this is all why i'm 100% socialist(ooooh bad word).
dont u just love what capitalism has done to our country, our government, and now sports???? YAYYY, go republicans, go ruin everything good in this world and turn it in to a flat out business.

broncosfan4eva
06-27-2011, 03:38 AM
As long as I get football back...!

ttam68
06-27-2011, 09:05 AM
This is entirely opinion. He's playing to the masses: ***** about a lockout and blame Stern. People will love it.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 09:13 AM
The NHL is doing WAY better than before the lockout. Tv ratings are up, the game is much faster and more exciting to watch and it is an extremely competitive league. I am not exaggerating at all when I say that at the beginning of the year any team has at least a chance at winning the Stanley cup, which can't be said about the NBA. If there is an NBA lockout they should really look at what the NHL did and try to do what the NHL did cuz they did great.

Thanks for clearing that up I appreciate it.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 09:16 AM
I side with the owners more then the players, but there are changes that need to happen on both sides to win.

-Reduce player salaries by 1/3
-No hard cap there other ways in reducing budget
-Additional perks for players that stay in their home teams
-Cut under performing franchises such as the Bobcats and Hornets

They aren't going to contract teams. Stern still has designs on putting teams in Europe.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 09:20 AM
Hard cap is a good thing. It levels the playing field so much and doesn't allow teams with the biggest paycheck to win every year. It forces you to actually build a team the right way (draft). Basically it would keep the nba from becoming like major league baseball where the same teams are good ever single year and its all about who will pay the most.

Even though baseball doesn't have a cap look at the teams that have won recently. SFG, Yankees, Phils, Red Sox, Cardinals(who had a terrible regular season record), White Sox, Red Sox, Marlins, Angels, D'Backs. No team won back to back and a number of them missed the PS or lost early in the playoffs the very next yr.

I'm against a hard cap.

lakersrock
06-27-2011, 09:35 AM
Everybody about crucified me for siding with the owners in the NFL lockout. Why did I? They weren't throwing around tough statements and by cutting their offer each time, were clearly willing to make it work somehow. None of this holding a finger up during games, threatening things before negotiations, etc.

Now who's side am I on for the NBA? Players.....and it's not even close. Unlike, the NFL, the NBA Owners are planning for a lockout to get what they want. The NFL Owners were gonna use it just long enough to move the CBA towards the middle. These guys are wanting to bend the players over and will wait a year or more if they have to.

Anyways, I highly doubt we get basketball this season and that's just pathetic. I hope all the loaded owners enjoy themselves while all of us "working" people that pay for their sport is sad without it. If they do go through with a full year lockout, I will never spend another dime on a NBA product until every owner currently in place isn't.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 09:58 AM
Even though baseball doesn't have a cap look at the teams that have won recently. SFG, Yankees, Phils, Red Sox, Cardinals(who had a terrible regular season record), White Sox, Red Sox, Marlins, Angels, D'Backs.

I'm against a hard cap.

still doesn't work, can't just look at the winners and loser of the WS to see if a cap is working or not. Have to look at small financial teams records compared to large pocket teams / trades / ect... to get the full scope of why a cap would be better for baseball.

There is no hard cap in baseball because:

A) players OBVIOUSLY won't and don't want it.
B) too much influence by the large market ownership groups that are profitable to ever get enough votes to put a cap in place.

NBA has the majority of teams losing money...if baseball had the majority of teams, or even a lot of the major market teams losing money...a cap would be a reality. NO WAY the big pocket owners who are making hand over fist right now while signing insane contracts to bring in big market players are going to let that trend stop. That is why they throw a little of it at the small money teams, as a pity tax (or luxury tax as they call it) to keep it the way it is. They shave a little off the top to not push the cap issue...and those small money owners pocket it so they can stay in business.

Its a real sneaky way around the cap and sanity a cap brings to out of control spending...and the ONLY reason why they are one of the only major sports without a cap.

but then again...baseball is SO politically and financially corrupt, this is just the tip of the iceburg. Most fans don't investigate or care cause...its fun to watch! LOL

jiggin
06-27-2011, 10:02 AM
Everybody about crucified me for siding with the owners in the NFL lockout. Why did I? They weren't throwing around tough statements and by cutting their offer each time, were clearly willing to make it work somehow. None of this holding a finger up during games, threatening things before negotiations, etc.

Now who's side am I on for the NBA? Players.....and it's not even close. Unlike, the NFL, the NBA Owners are planning for a lockout to get what they want. The NFL Owners were gonna use it just long enough to move the CBA towards the middle. These guys are wanting to bend the players over and will wait a year or more if they have to.

Anyways, I highly doubt we get basketball this season and that's just pathetic. I hope all the loaded owners enjoy themselves while all of us "working" people that pay for their sport is sad without it. If they do go through with a full year lockout, I will never spend another dime on a NBA product until every owner currently in place isn't.

its their business...they can do what they want as long as they follow the law.

Would you want someone telling you what to do with your business? If your business was losing money, would you just keep it up and keep losing millions without saying or doing something?

this isn't new; the owners losing money. They have an opportunity to try and straighten out the CBA to help the situation and keep the league going.

If it were me, I would say; this is what needs to happen and if it doesn't I may need to walk away from the NBA as an owner. They are in it for profit. Its a business. These business owners are in the NBA gig BECAUSE they make smart business decisions, that is how they ended up (in most cases) with millions of dollars to buy a team. It shouldn't surprise anyone to see them balk at ANY business venture that puts them in the red.

If the problem financially is the facilities, or the food vendors...then the ownership would resolve that problem to make a profit. So, in this case, I don't see what is wrong with fixing the problem; the CBA being a little too generous for the owners to keep operating in the black.

Just like the kids that worked at blockbuster, if the company isn't profitable, no matter how it happened, if the ownership isn't making a profit the business closes down and the employees are out to dry. The NBA owners are in a similar situation, but are trying to find a way to keep profitable so the league doesn't have to shut down and not pay the employees.

I know MULTIPLE companies that have asked people to take pay cuts...including people in aviation (pilots), big business executives and even office assistance. Many Americans are having their hours cut because the companies they work for are losing money and need to cut costs (including pay and benefits to employees) in order to stay profitable. Why is this any different? Why are people looking at this situation an differently? These owners are no different in their quest to have their businesses profitable, just like all the other American companies struggling to make their bottom line.

Don't put the players before the owners who employ them. The NBA would not exist if these owners didn't take the business risk to bring it to us. And if that risk is not panning out, they would be stupid to continue down that business path.

PS - sorry for the book I wrote above...

PPS - ITS NOW AVAILABLE ON NOOK and KINDLE.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 10:02 AM
Everybody about crucified me for siding with the owners in the NFL lockout. Why did I? They weren't throwing around tough statements and by cutting their offer each time, were clearly willing to make it work somehow. None of this holding a finger up during games, threatening things before negotiations, etc.

Now who's side am I on for the NBA? Players.....and it's not even close. Unlike, the NFL, the NBA Owners are planning for a lockout to get what they want. The NFL Owners were gonna use it just long enough to move the CBA towards the middle. These guys are wanting to bend the players over and will wait a year or more if they have to.

Anyways, I highly doubt we get basketball this season and that's just pathetic. I hope all the loaded owners enjoy themselves while all of us "working" people that pay for their sport is sad without it. If they do go through with a full year lockout, I will never spend another dime on a NBA product until every owner currently in place isn't.

The league has so much momentum and it's going to get killed by the lock out. SMH

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 10:06 AM
still doesn't work, can't just look at the winners and loser of the WS to see if a cap is working or not. Have to look at small financial teams records compared to large pocket teams / trades / ect... to get the full scope of why a cap would be better for baseball.

There is no hard cap in baseball because:

A) players OBVIOUSLY won't and don't want it.
B) too much influence by the large market ownership groups that are profitable to ever get enough votes to put a cap in place.

NBA has the majority of teams losing money...if baseball had the majority of teams, or even a lot of the major market teams losing money...a cap would be a reality. NO WAY the big pocket owners who are making hand over fist right now while signing insane contracts to bring in big market players are going to let that trend stop. That is why they throw a little of it at the small money teams, as a pity tax (or luxury tax as they call it) to keep it the way it is. They shave a little off the top to not push the cap issue...and those small money owners pocket it so they can stay in business.

Its a real sneaky way around the cap and sanity a cap brings to out of control spending...and the ONLY reason why they are one of the only major sports without a cap.

but then again...baseball is SO politically and financially corrupt, this is just the tip of the iceburg. Most fans don't investigate or care cause...its fun to watch! LOL

I understand what you're saying even though I still don't agree with implementing a hard cap in the NBA.

thunderforce
06-27-2011, 10:07 AM
I don't care if they are out one even two years as long as when they are done that any team can win and any team if they want can keep their players . I don't want to see the same 5 teams winning it all every year .

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 10:12 AM
I don't care if they are out one even two years as long as when they are done that any team can win and any team if they want can keep their players . I don't want to see the same 5 teams winning it all every year .

So you would rather see the Wizards and Kings in the finals instead of Lakers vs. Celtics or Heat vs. Lakers.

In 05 we had the Spurs against the Pistons and no one was interested in the match-up except for die hard basketball fans.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 10:18 AM
I don't care if they are out one even two years as long as when they are done that any team can win and any team if they want can keep their players . I don't want to see the same 5 teams winning it all every year .

this should be the goal of any and every professional sports league.

It isn't and won't be. Everyone wants money. You can see how out of control it is with the NFL/NBA and then take a look at how messed up the MLB is...all based over finances.

A cap is needed to keep everyone honest. There is always going to be at least one owner that is going to try and push the limits on what he is allowed to do in order to have a better product to sell to make money off fans. because of that, there has to be something/someone policing them. Self-policing does not work in this world anymore. :)

thunderforce
06-27-2011, 10:54 AM
So you would rather see the Wizards and Kings in the finals instead of Lakers vs. Celtics or Heat vs. Lakers.

In 05 we had the Spurs against the Pistons and no one was interested in the match-up except for die hard basketball fans.

Yes i would , I would like to see the best run teams win not the same 5 big market teams .

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 11:09 AM
Yes i would , I would like to see the best run teams win not the same 5 big market teams .

Ppl make it seem like it's the 80's with the Celtics and Lakers. This yrs NBA playoffs had 8 legit contenders for the championship. When was the last time anyone could say that?

jiggin
06-27-2011, 11:28 AM
Ppl make it seem like it's the 80's with the Celtics and Lakers. This yrs NBA playoffs had 8 legit contenders for the championship. When was the last time anyone could say that?

but it is...

...lets go back 10 years, that doesn't seem like much a span.

6 teams over 10 years worth of basketball.

Lakers - 4 wins
Spurs - 3 wins
Heat - 1
Mavs - 1
Pistons - 1
Celtics - 1

Ok...not too bad, although little "repetitive"

now lets look at how many different teams were representing in the finals:

Lakers - 6 appearances in the last 10 years.
Spurs - 3 appearances in the last 10 years.
Mavs - 2 appearances in the last 10 years.
Nets - 2 appearances in the last 10 years.
Pistons - 2 appearances in the last 10 years.
Heat - 2 appearances in the last 10 years.
Celtics - 2 appearances in the last 10 years.
Cleveland 1 appearance in the last 10 years.
Magic - 1 appearance in the last 10 years.
Knicks - 1 appearance in the last 10 years.

How many teams are there? 30. So you got 10 teams sharing the finals over the last 10 years. The east looks way better than the west. The west has been a Lakers/Spurs fest for some time.

I think what he is saying is, he would like to see more than a 1/3 of the league regularly in the finals.

reffahead
06-27-2011, 11:29 AM
I'm with you Thunder, if players like marbury and Curry can zombie around because their money is fully guaranteed then I can wait as long as it should take.

I mean these dudes basically get to smoke bud legally and get paid millions for basketball.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 11:45 AM
but it is...

...lets go back 10 years, that doesn't seem like much a span.

6 teams over 10 years worth of basketball.

Lakers - 4 wins
Spurs - 3 wins
Heat - 1
Mavs - 1
Pistons - 1
Celtics - 1

Ok...not too bad, although little "repetitive"

now lets look at how many different teams were representing in the finals:

Lakers - 6 appearances in the last 10 years.
Spurs - 3 appearances in the last 10 years.
Mavs - 2 appearances in the last 10 years.
Nets - 2 appearances in the last 10 years.
Pistons - 2 appearances in the last 10 years.
Heat - 2 appearances in the last 10 years.
Celtics - 2 appearances in the last 10 years.
Cleveland 1 appearance in the last 10 years.
Magic - 1 appearance in the last 10 years.
Knicks - 1 appearance in the last 10 years.

How many teams are there? 30. So you got 10 teams sharing the finals over the last 10 years. The east looks way better than the west. The west has been a Lakers/Spurs fest for some time.

I think what he is saying is, he would like to see more than a 1/3 of the league regularly in the finals.

I understand where you're coming from but the public likes to see power house teams in the finals. They love to see the stars even they hate him. Would markets like Charlotte and Minnesota captive the NBA public if they faced each in the Finals.

And the dominance of the Lakers/Spurs is tied to having some of the greatest players and coaches as the cornerstones of those franchises for many yrs. Put them in the East instead of the West and it's the same thing.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 11:46 AM
I'm with you Thunder, if players like marbury and Curry can zombie around because their money is fully guaranteed then I can wait as long as it should take.

I mean these dudes basically get to smoke bud legally and get paid millions for basketball.

Go a step a step further they should never bring the league back.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 11:49 AM
I understand where you're coming from but the public likes to see power house teams in the finals. They love to see the stars even they hate him. Would markets like Charlotte and Minnesota captive the NBA public if they faced each in the Finals.

And the dominance of the Lakers/Spurs is tied to having some of the greatest players and coaches as the cornerstones of those franchises for many yrs. Put them in the East instead of the West and it's the same thing.

sorry, Thunder and me don't want to see this every year. And last I checked, we were both part of the public. :)

Besides, a small market team may not be as small a market team if they can get on the national spot light every once in a while. I am sure those small pocket teams would benefit dramatically from some playoff money. I mean, what's to say that a team like Charlotte wouldn't be more popular nation wide if they were to make it to the finals every couple of years...or at least gave the other power teams a run for their money every year. but if you don't control the finances to keep things somewhat even and fair on the spending front...then you end up with a MLB situation...

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 12:20 PM
sorry, Thunder and me don't want to see this every year. And last I checked, we were both part of the public. :)

Besides, a small market team may not be as small a market team if they can get on the national spot light every once in a while. I am sure those small pocket teams would benefit dramatically from some playoff money. I mean, what's to say that a team like Charlotte wouldn't be more popular nation wide if they were to make it to the finals every couple of years...or at least gave the other power teams a run for their money every year. but if you don't control the finances to keep things somewhat even and fair on the spending front...then you end up with a MLB situation...

you're one of the few that don't want to see it. We'll think of something to satisfy you guys. A nice vacation to the place of your choice. You can bring family, friends, or whoever you want. deal.. *extends hand*

They might gain some exposure by making it to the finals but the NBA has always been a league that pulls in interest based on big names in big cities. Sure a trip to the Finals might do them some good but if over the next few yrs they go bounced early or don't make it at all would anyone care they had 1 Finals appearance.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 12:41 PM
you're one of the few that don't want to see it. We'll think of something to satisfy you guys. A nice vacation to the place of your choice. You can bring family, friends, or whoever you want. deal.. *extends hand*

They might gain some exposure by making it to the finals but the NBA has always been a league that pulls in interest based on big names in big cities. Sure a trip to the Finals might do them some good but if over the next few yrs they go bounced early or don't make it at all would anyone care they had 1 Finals appearance.

so you don't think that Charlotte would be a much more recognized NBA team if the big 3 had gone there last off-season? I know that is an extreme example, but the point is; if all the teams have equal or out of the gates equal spending limitation ect...won't it make the league more interesting and fun to watch knowing that teams like Charlotte have an even playing field to acquire the same big names that big market teams?

Do you really believe that players go to specific cities over money? If charlotte was able to offer big money like Boston...would a player choose Boston for significantly less money just to say he plays in boston?

I don't believe that. I know that happens sometimes at the tail end of a career...but money is the driving force for most. And if the playing field is even and a team like Charlotte (sorry I keep using them) is able to snag not only 1 big name player but a couple other recognizable names, then they will be able to recruit much easier...its a chain reaction in a positive way.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 12:59 PM
so you don't think that Charlotte would be a much more recognized NBA team if the big 3 had gone there last off-season? I know that is an extreme example, but the point is; if all the teams have equal or out of the gates equal spending limitation ect...won't it make the league more interesting and fun to watch knowing that teams like Charlotte have an even playing field to acquire the same big names that big market teams?

Do you really believe that players go to specific cities over money? If charlotte was able to offer big money like Boston...would a player choose Boston for significantly less money just to say he plays in boston?

I don't believe that. I know that happens sometimes at the tail end of a career...but money is the driving force for most. And if the playing field is even and a team like Charlotte (sorry I keep using them) is able to snag not only 1 big name player but a couple other recognizable names, then they will be able to recruit much easier...its a chain reaction in a positive way.


I don't think Charlotte is desirable enough to get a big 3 like Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. Sometimes life isn't fair. Would it be interesting to see some lower teams acquire talent sure but if they have that talent and fluctuate between a couple of playoff births, one Finals run and a few of PS absences would that make a drastic change in how the Bobcats are viewed.

He might do that because he might not like or value Charlotte as he does Boston. Clearly money plays a factor but we can't ignore that some players don't hold certain areas in high regard. Lebron could have made top money with the Cavs but took less to go to MIA. We all know this was planned yrs in advanced but let's say he really tried to recruit Chris Bosh to became a Cavalier. I might be wrong but Bosh could have made top money with them and got a max contract but he wanted no part of Cleveland even with Lebron there.

How about Charlotte draft better players and use a model that OKC uses. It's the same one the Rays have used and they have been to the PS 2 out of 3 yrs and even made it to the WS. They know they can't compete financially so they go above and beyond when it comes to drafting and scouting players.

JLynn943
06-27-2011, 01:00 PM
So you would rather see the Wizards and Kings in the finals instead of Lakers vs. Celtics or Heat vs. Lakers.

In 05 we had the Spurs against the Pistons and no one was interested in the match-up except for die hard basketball fans.

Hell yes I would. Spurs/pistons is a bad example anyway. No one watched it because of the style those teams played, not because of where they are.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 01:01 PM
Hell yes I would. Spurs/pistons is a bad example anyway. No one watched it because of the style those teams played, not because of where they are.

You can't tell me who they were didn't play a role in being not being interested.

Federal Reserve
06-27-2011, 01:24 PM
Spurs are a small market team and have been exceptionally efficient in the last 10 years. Yes, big market teams do have an advantage, but there is a reason behind it; more opportunities are available to not only the players but owners in big market environment. Many teams can easily build through the draft, although teams like the Raptors and Bobcats (to name a few) have consistently struggled to rectify the mistakes on their roster. The future of the NBA is held by the players drafted and if the small market teams are not smart in whom they draft, then who else is there to blame but those teams.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 01:33 PM
Spurs are a small market team and have been exceptionally efficient in the last 10 years. Yes, big market teams do have an advantage, but there is a reason behind it; more opportunities are available to not only the players but owners in big market environment. Many teams can easily build through the draft, although teams like the Raptors and Bobcats (to name a few) have consistently struggled to rectify the mistakes on their roster. The future of the NBA is held by the players drafted and if the small market teams are not smart in whom they draft, then who else is there to blame but those teams.

Very well said I agree.

If you can't attract the best players attract the brightest front office personnel you can to improve the roster. And then when you have a chance to strike at a player that is worth the money make the move.

NYY 26 to 7
06-27-2011, 01:45 PM
How is Stern to blame for this. There are very real problems and the owners are just that the owners of this business. First of all they have very real financial losses while players still make millions. If you owned a business you would be ok paying your employees billions while you collectively lost millions? Would you be satisfied if their union proposal to you was ok well give you some back so you can break even? No. Also by all accounts Stern is desperately trying to make sure there is basketball next year and build on this years success but you can't force the owners. Now in hindsight should they have been more careful about they people they allowed as owners? Maybe. This article is awful though and should not be taken seriously.

futureman
06-27-2011, 01:46 PM
With a major financial collapse expected to occur in the next little while, the league may be gone for good. If you haven't noticed, the government is robbing us blind. They are now after our constitutional rights.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 01:50 PM
Very well said I agree.

If you can't attract the best players attract the brightest front office personnel you can to improve the roster. And then when you have a chance to strike at a player that is worth the money make the move.

sure...but what if that big player you get in the draft gets hurt? Or doesn't pan out? See....in baseball, there are round after round of drafting...plus there is a minor league system. Very few players come out of the draft making MILLIONS of dollars before they even put on a uniform.

The NBA is almost completely opposite. players past the first round rarely make the roster of an NBA team for a full season, there is no minor league system for these players to work their way up and earn a roster spot, there is very little flexibility during the contract for the ownership group (arbitration in MLB).

You can not compare the two, they are completely opposites. The NBA draft is a a lot more of a crap shoot than the MLB.

i think the NBA owners want a CBA more like the NFL's, where there is player responsibility involved for injuries/lack of performance ect...

I really don't see anything wrong with that, i would think the players shouldn't either...the NFL is dividing up 3.4 Billion in profits with the players (based on their new CBA in the works)...I thin the NBA owners want to get to this type of situation. :D

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 02:12 PM
sure...but what if that big player you get in the draft gets hurt? Or doesn't pan out? See....in baseball, there are round after round of drafting...plus there is a minor league system. Very few players come out of the draft making MILLIONS of dollars before they even put on a uniform.

The NBA is almost completely opposite. players past the first round rarely make the roster of an NBA team for a full season, there is no minor league system for these players to work their way up and earn a roster spot, there is very little flexibility during the contract for the ownership group (arbitration in MLB).

You can not compare the two, they are completely opposites. The NBA draft is a a lot more of a crap shoot than the MLB.

i think the NBA owners want a CBA more like the NFL's, where there is player responsibility involved for injuries/lack of performance ect...

I really don't see anything wrong with that, i would think the players shouldn't either...the NFL is dividing up 3.4 Billion in profits with the players (based on their new CBA in the works)...I thin the NBA owners want to get to this type of situation. :D

A number of players in the MLB that are drafted don't even make it to the bigs. I think drafting is a safer bet in the NBA than it is in MLB. There is a long list of top picks in baseball that turn about to be busts or never make it. How many top picks in the NBA don't at least turn their career into something valuable whether it's being a defensive stopper a 3 pt. shooter or a sixth man.

"The NBA draft is a a lot more of a crap shoot than the MLB."

No it's not it's not even close. Top picks don't even make it to the big team until they spend 3-4 yrs in the minors. Top players like Lebron, Wade, Howard, Blake Griffin, etc are instant stars 1-3 yrs after being drafted. I've seen MLB teams draft number 1 consensus players and see that player out of the league or injured yrs later. Predicting success in MLB is alot harder than it is in the NBA.

The NFL is a system that works for them but it might not be the same for the NBA. What works for one might not work for the other.

jiggin
06-27-2011, 02:40 PM
A number of players in the MLB that are drafted don't even make it to the bigs. I think drafting is a safer bet in the NBA than it is in MLB. There is a long list of top picks in baseball that turn about to be busts or never make it. How many top picks in the NBA don't at least turn their career into something valuable whether it's being a defensive stopper a 3 pt. shooter or a sixth man.

"The NBA draft is a a lot more of a crap shoot than the MLB."

No it's not it's not even close. Top picks don't even make it to the big team until they spend 3-4 yrs in the minors. Top players like Lebron, Wade, Howard, Blake Griffin, etc are instant stars 1-3 yrs after being drafted. I've seen MLB teams draft number 1 consensus players and see that player out of the league or injured yrs later. Predicting success in MLB is alot harder than it is in the NBA.

The NFL is a system that works for them but it might not be the same for the NBA. What works for one might not work for the other.

but you have to understand, the saturation of the MLB and the minor league system protect the owners and their pocket books. In the NFL, non-guaranteed contracts protect the owners pocket books. In the NBA, there is no protection. You have a handful of players that realistically can make your roster each draft. If they go in the first round, which is where the majority of players that can make the roster come from, they make MILLIONS and are expecting MILLIONS before they even take the court. NBA owners have 1 shot each draft, most of the time without trading picks ect...and if that 1 players, that is expecting MILLIONS out the gate, gets hurt or doesn't pan out...the owners are SCREWED and on the hook for that for the minimum of 2 years required by contract:


1st-round draft choices are assigned salaries according to their draft position. The first overall pick receives more than the second pick, the second more than the third, and so on. Each contract is for two years, with a team option for the third and fourth seasons (the previous CBA provided for three year contracts with an option for the fourth season), with built-in raises every year to compensate for increases in the average salary.

So...you get most likely 1 shot at a good players or game changer in the NBA draft...you have to pay him MILLIONS right out the gate before he even puts on your teams uniform, and if he gets hurt or something...you are stuck with the contract till it expires.

Its not a simple easy draft situation...and it allows for ZERO wiggle room if something negative happens to your pick, while other major sports CBA's protect ownership from those variables out of their control.

BigCityofDreams
06-27-2011, 03:17 PM
but you have to understand, the saturation of the MLB and the minor league system protect the owners and their pocket books. In the NFL, non-guaranteed contracts protect the owners pocket books. In the NBA, there is no protection. You have a handful of players that realistically can make your roster each draft. If they go in the first round, which is where the majority of players that can make the roster come from, they make MILLIONS and are expecting MILLIONS before they even take the court. NBA owners have 1 shot each draft, most of the time without trading picks ect...and if that 1 players, that is expecting MILLIONS out the gate, gets hurt or doesn't pan out...the owners are SCREWED and on the hook for that for the minimum of 2 years required by contract:



So...you get most likely 1 shot at a good players or game changer in the NBA draft...you have to pay him MILLIONS right out the gate before he even puts on your teams uniform, and if he gets hurt or something...you are stuck with the contract till it expires.

Its not a simple easy draft situation...and it allows for ZERO wiggle room if something negative happens to your pick, while other major sports CBA's protect ownership from those variables out of their control.

True you have to pay him millions out of the gate but isn't there a slotting system in the NBA. Yea if they get hurt than it sucks but they are stuck for what 3 yrs that fits into a rookie wage scale. It's not as if the top pick in the NBA gets 60 million as a top pick. The Raiders drafted Jamarcus Russell and were saddled with that decision for a few yrs even though there were things in place to help them deal with their poor decision.

JordansBulls
06-27-2011, 08:02 PM
Is the NFL on a lockout as well?

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-27-2011, 08:08 PM
Is the NFL on a lockout as well?

Yeah were have you been since March.

Tom Stone
06-28-2011, 12:10 PM
you're one of the few that don't want to see it. We'll think of something to satisfy you guys. A nice vacation to the place of your choice. You can bring family, friends, or whoever you want. deal.. *extends hand*

They might gain some exposure by making it to the finals but the NBA has always been a league that pulls in interest based on big names in big cities. Sure a trip to the Finals might do them some good but if over the next few yrs they go bounced early or don't make it at all would anyone care they had 1 Finals appearance.



You keep saying you want the big market teams in the finals, because that's what the world wants to see......And then you said only true basketball fans would care......That's fine , I don't give a dam, what ban wagon fans think......In sports I never want to be on a stacked team, I find there is no Honor in that....If your a warrior like myself........You would understand, what you stand for is everything that is wrong with sports, and the world.

BigCityofDreams
06-28-2011, 12:26 PM
You keep saying you want the big market teams in the finals, because that's what the world wants to see......And then you said only true basketball fans would care......That's fine , I don't give a dam, what ban wagon fans think......In sports I never want to be on a stacked team, I find there is no Honor in that....If your a warrior like myself........You would understand, what you stand for is everything that is wrong with sports, and the world.

????

So I'm less of a person because I like seeing big market teams in the finals or championship games. This is a basketball discussion no need to get personal or throw insults. Calm down

"If your a warrior like myself........You would understand"

What does that have to do with an NBA lockout

mttwlsn16
06-28-2011, 01:01 PM
**** u stern

JordansBulls
06-28-2011, 06:35 PM
Yeah were have you been since March.

Basketball.

How far along are they? Is the season going to be cancelled?

Punk
06-28-2011, 06:58 PM
Basketball.

How far along are they? Is the season going to be cancelled?

About a week ago, it seemed like it was gonna be over but it's still not but it's further along than it looked. At the beginning and when it began, it looked 30 times worse than the NBA. Media wise.

Now, things are much more calmer which is why I believe the NBA lockout won't last that long. Things have been handled much more civilly compared to the NFL at the beginning.

canzano55
06-29-2011, 12:55 PM
With a major financial collapse expected to occur in the next little while, the league may be gone for good. If you haven't noticed, the government is robbing us blind. They are now after our constitutional rights.I use to be heavily involved in the American consumer markets and I got out of it 6 months ago. Yes there was an issue with a decrease in US dollar confidence but more importantly it was astronomical shipping costs and a hurting US economy that ultimately kicked us out of the market.

While the 1% of wealthy Americans are getting richer the other 99% percent are getting significantly poorer. I think the most recent official statistic I read was that over 40% are living below the poverty line while the other 59% are fighting to stay in a low/middle class that is more or less wilting away by the day.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off here but as a Canadian I can tell you that we desperately need America to be functioning properly because the majority of our industries depend on U.S economical functionality and a USD reserve currency. But knowing what I know now, depending on the next election and other factors that will give us a timeframe, overall the United States will have an economic crash of enormous proportions and it won't matter if the NFL or NBA is on TV because you won't have money to pay the electric bill to watch it (even it even still exists at that point).

I love American sports as much as the next guy, but at the end of the day its a distraction from the real imminent issues that will affect our lives in a very serious way and we as north Americans simply can't afford to care.

I know its not what people want to hear but its the hard truth.

3ballbomber
06-29-2011, 11:49 PM
NBA Lockout – Is it Time To Panic?!
June 22, 2011 | Author admin

Former NBA referee Tim Donaghy shares his thoughts, musings and insights. Check out his book, “Personal Foul: A First-Person Account of the Scandal that Rocked the NBA.”

Hang on, fella’s, I think we are headed for an NBA lockout! The goal, of course, is to get the collective bargaining talks headed in a direction most advantageous to the league, and taking the heat off the head office to make some meaningful budgetary changes that are long overdue. The expiration of the current Collective Bargaining Agreement on June 30th is just the leverage Stern will use to push his agenda through, without regard to the casualties.



You likely know that the league has been pushing for a hard salary cap and non-guaranteed contracts for years, claiming that teams are losing millions of dollars, and the NBA as a whole losing $300 million. The league is trying to change the revenue sharing agreements, where currently the players are receiving 57% of the revenue. Currently, though, the NBA backed off seeking the elimination of non-guaranteed contracts.



Instead of Stern making a solid effort to cut erroneous expenses in order to balance his budget, he is pushing for changes on the backs of the players and the fans. People willing to shell out big bucks to watch games will likely be seeing shorter seasons, or the NBA has even threatened to contract, or eliminate, teams in smaller markets. Instead of Stern throwing out an olive branch, and lowering salaries modestly across the board, including his own, he is using threats against the players to strong-arm the changes. His tactics are barbaric.



Absent an extension to the CBA, or a meeting of the minds, the team’s operations are likely to shut down on July 1, 2011. The league will send players into panic mode as each day passes, and the start of the regular season approaches. Stern will direct the message to the players through the media, using tools like ESPN’s Henry Abbott, Stern’s messenger. You will most certainly hear the following words very soon: “This is my final offer.”



Tim Donaghy

utl768
06-30-2011, 12:05 AM
the nba regular season is irrelevant anyway

as long as there is basketball in april i can live with a long lockout

Tom Stone
06-30-2011, 12:00 PM
Looks like the owners have offered a Little more to the players a... 50-50 BRI, among other things.....but still want an upper limit you can't exceed.....a hard cap, and players are still mad............The thing is about a hard cap is... Hard Cap means "Fair".....it means a chance for every team to win.....It means you won't have as many great players leaving small markets just because they feel the only way you can win is to join a super team, super team meaning, a team that spends more.... thus increasing chances of winning....and I personally don't blame team , it's they way it is in the soft cap system.......The Hard Cap would be so good for the sport people don't even realize it....And the players still are the highest payed union in the world, and will still make in one year more than most people can save your whole life.