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View Full Version : Pippen clarifies, MJ not Lebron, is greatest ever



JJ_JKidd
06-24-2011, 11:44 PM
LISLE, Ill. -- Scottie Pippen said Friday he believes Michael Jordan is the greatest player in NBA history, despite remarks he made last month regarding Miami Heat forward LeBron James on ESPN Radio's "Mike and Mike In The Morning."

"The comments that I made were basically giving LeBron some props as a player, not to dismantle any player like Michael," Pippen said after a youth camp session at the Bulls/Sox academy. "We all know that he's the greatest player that ever played the game.

"I think it was taken a little bit out of context. I felt like I was drawing more of a conclusion from the statistics more than the accolades."

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6701584

:facepalm:

Illinirob83
06-24-2011, 11:45 PM
It was taken out of context but ESPN and their viewers were too stupid to realize this. The word MAY was used twice in his original statement.

JJ_JKidd
06-24-2011, 11:49 PM
F the media. They say that this draft class is boring, not deep and so on? They're just disappointed there is no one to hype, no one to write some new articles on to.

Raoul Duke
06-24-2011, 11:51 PM
Someone let Pippen know that history does not care about his opinion.

FriedTofuz
06-24-2011, 11:58 PM
Pippen cant take back the words he said. He did say lebron was better than michael jordan. If someone can find an article where pippen said this statement , pippen will look even more foolish.

allSUAVE
06-25-2011, 12:06 AM
OH Please

FuriousJatt
06-25-2011, 12:10 AM
lol he isnt the first person to take their words back

NEILarado
06-25-2011, 12:14 AM
Pippen cant take back the words he said. He did say lebron was better than michael jordan. If someone can find an article where pippen said this statement , pippen will look even more foolish.

wtf are u talking about?? like the first person said, he said the word "may" twice and he never actually said lebron is better then MJ. not only does scotties opinion not even matter, but the entire world knows MJ is and always will be the best to ever lace up shoes

iggypop123
06-25-2011, 12:15 AM
pippen already addressed this. he said he was high that day

knicks_champ
06-25-2011, 12:18 AM
He was obsessed with Lebron because he saw him play at a high level first hand. But once he saw the finals, he slapped himself.

valade16
06-25-2011, 12:21 AM
He was obsessed with Lebron because he saw him play at a high level first hand. But once he saw the finals, he slapped himself.

The finals? How could he watch a player that wasn't even there?..

Bruno
06-25-2011, 12:24 AM
Thanks for clarifying, Scottie :)

gaughan333
06-25-2011, 12:26 AM
Pippens brain got hacked. Those werent his words that came out

gaughan333
06-25-2011, 12:26 AM
The finals? How could he watch a player that wasn't even there?..

I see what you did here, and I like it.

Avenged
06-25-2011, 01:00 AM
:laugh2:

so if Lebron would have won, he wouldn't have taken it back.

But now that he looks like even more of a fool, he does.

Whatever!

Yanks All Day
06-25-2011, 01:18 AM
He did say that LeBron can be better than Jordan, but I don't see anything that said he WILL be better than MJ, or IS better than the GOAT. The media ran with it more than anything. Again, all he said was that with LeBron's skill set, he MAY be better than MJ one day. Didn't think the quote was anything ridiculous 3 weeks ago and don't think its ridiculous now. Dude's 26 years old and still getting better. Still gotta give him time before talking about legacy.

naps
06-25-2011, 04:34 AM
Pippen cant take back the words he said. He did say lebron was better than michael jordan. If someone can find an article where pippen said this statement , pippen will look even more foolish.

NO he NEVER said LeBron WAS better than Michael. He said LeBron could be the GOAT when his career is over. Don't twist FACTS the way you want. Go back and re-read it.

b.mill
06-25-2011, 04:56 AM
Pippen was a clown to begin with

The Final Boss
06-25-2011, 04:56 AM
Who's Scottie Pippen. Furthermore, who's LOLebron James?

CityofTreez
06-25-2011, 05:00 AM
The finals? How could he watch a player that wasn't even there?..


I see what you did here, and I like it.

Welcome to the NBA Forum ladies and gents.....

CityofTreez
06-25-2011, 05:01 AM
Who's Scottie Pippen. Furthermore, who's LOLebron James?

whose Cristiano RinaLOLdo?

mynameismo
06-25-2011, 05:08 AM
It's all MEDIA. He said, she said.. Whatever!

I watch NBA for basketball. Not the back stories.

Jaji
06-25-2011, 07:04 AM
I think what people need to understand is how young LeBron James is. When you think about that logically you realize he has accomplished way more than MJ did by the same age. On and off the court, either way, there's no comparison. Let's investigate shall we.....

At age 26, Michael Jordan had 1 league MVP couple with a DPOY in the same season and a total of three playoff series wins. At the same age, LeBron has 2 MVPs, 11 series wins and has been to the Finals twice. So to anyone who says "Michael Jordan would have never scored 8 points in a Finals game,"... well that's because MJ was never in the Finals that young. His line for or the night would have been 0-0 for zero points because his team didn't qualify for the championship round at that point in his career. In other words: you can't score if your team's not playing.

For their careers MJ averaged 30.1 ppg and 5.3 assists. LeBron is currently at 27.7 with 7 assists. Using the hockey formula for points (goals or in this case points plus assists or in this case assists x2 for each basket) LeBron's 41.7 point responsibility is greater than the 40.7 MJ was responsible for. So MJ scored more, but LeBron has been responsible for more points per game.

Off the court LeBron is already (and has been for a while) a global icon. Jordan's brand didn't really take off until the 90's once the Bulls started winning titles. LeBron has been in your face since High School. He has way more power and influence than Jordan had at the same age. Again, its not even comparable. Jordan took an executive job with the Wizards, tried to build a team to come back and play with. What a pitiful and embarrassing disaster that turned out to be. Meanwhile, Baby Bron is building title contenders as he enters his prime. Wow. And his influence is felt throughout the league. Denver traded Melo because of the "LeBron effect." CP3? What's gonna happen with him? Ask LeBron, isn't he is agent or something? :laugh2:

For those "old enough to have seen MJ play" (and I was) people, maybe you just idolized MJ as a youngin and now that you're older you can't come to grips that this young cat, younger than you is doing incredible things at a ridiculous rate.

Hate him all you want, but he's the most gifted player to ever play the game. And he's accomplished more than the great MJ did at the same age. Not to mention he is in prime position to win a whole lot of titles.

The hate is ridiculous because all this man did was switch teams. He did it on TV so what? Isn't that just one big *** tweet? He didn't tell the Cavs so what? Just like the Cavs didn't tell Irving he was their pick? Either way, what does it matter? He teamed up with 2 All Stars so what? Don't you need multiple All Stars to win a title? 95% of the time you do. He showed selflessness in taking less money and agreeing to share the spotlight. Those are commendable acts. But instead he's ridiculed? Why? Because he's changing the game? Because he's doing things his way and not they way you think he should? LeBron was chastised for choosing St. Vincent St. Mary over Buchtel in Akron Ohio too. Why the eff would he go to that school? How'd that work out for him? Unis made by adidas, corporate sponsors, nationally televised games, $100 million sneaker contract (waaaaayyyyy more than young MJ lol). But you should really get over the hate because his day as a champion is surely coming and he'll probably be a younger champion than MJ too. Hard facts to face but hey, life goes on.

sventhedog
06-25-2011, 07:40 AM
really dumb thing what he said in the first place. then he suddenly changes his mind now. lol.

you have to feel sad for pippen. he must have kept all the hate inside him for being in MJ's shadow. his lebron statement was his only way of getting back at jordan. unfortunately, he wasn't smart enough to think first. he could've banked on reggie's 3 pt shooting or stern has white hair, but lebron for his greatness? lol. what a joke.

EdGein812
06-25-2011, 07:48 AM
Ha ha hahahahaha. Nice recovery derpy derp. No ****.

Durant is hype
06-25-2011, 08:10 AM
:laugh2:

so if Lebron would have won, he wouldn't have taken it back.

But now that he looks like even more of a fool, he does.

Whatever!

He said Lebron MAY go down as the goat. Big difference.

JordansBulls
06-25-2011, 08:18 AM
Lebron has a chance to be top 5 all time, but no higher. Dude has already lost 3 series with HCA and lost 3 series in a row with it as the hands down favorite, while he is 1-3 in Series with HCA vs 50+ win teams. To compare the difference Jordan is undefeated in series with HCA and is 14-0 in Series with HCA vs 50+ Win Teams. Not to mention Jordan showed up in the finals and never got outscored in any playoff series in his career, while Lebron got outscored by a guy who was coming off the bench on the other team and by two of his own teammates in the finals. Not to mention that Lebron had to leave to play with a proven winner in order to try to win.





I think what people need to understand is how young LeBron James is. When you think about that logically you realize he has accomplished way more than MJ did by the same age. On and off the court, either way, there's no comparison. Let's investigate shall we.....

At age 26, Michael Jordan had 1 league MVP couple with a DPOY in the same season and a total of three playoff series wins. At the same age, LeBron has 2 MVPs, 11 series wins and has been to the Finals twice. So to anyone who says "Michael Jordan would have never scored 8 points in a Finals game,"... well that's because MJ was never in the Finals that young. His line for or the night would have been 0-0 for zero points because his team didn't qualify for the championship round at that point in his career. In other words: you can't score if your team's not playing.

For their careers MJ averaged 30.1 ppg and 5.3 assists. LeBron is currently at 27.7 with 7 assists. Using the hockey formula for points (goals or in this case points plus assists or in this case assists x2 for each basket) LeBron's 41.7 point responsibility is greater than the 40.7 MJ was responsible for. So MJ scored more, but LeBron has been responsible for more points per game.

Off the court LeBron is already (and has been for a while) a global icon. Jordan's brand didn't really take off until the 90's once the Bulls started winning titles. LeBron has been in your face since High School. He has way more power and influence than Jordan had at the same age. Again, its not even comparable. Jordan took an executive job with the Wizards, tried to build a team to come back and play with. What a pitiful and embarrassing disaster that turned out to be. Meanwhile, Baby Bron is building title contenders as he enters his prime. Wow. And his influence is felt throughout the league. Denver traded Melo because of the "LeBron effect." CP3? What's gonna happen with him? Ask LeBron, isn't he is agent or something? :laugh2:

For those "old enough to have seen MJ play" (and I was) people, maybe you just idolized MJ as a youngin and now that you're older you can't come to grips that this young cat, younger than you is doing incredible things at a ridiculous rate.

Hate him all you want, but he's the most gifted player to ever play the game. And he's accomplished more than the great MJ did at the same age. Not to mention he is in prime position to win a whole lot of titles.

The hate is ridiculous because all this man did was switch teams. He did it on TV so what? Isn't that just one big *** tweet? He didn't tell the Cavs so what? Just like the Cavs didn't tell Irving he was their pick? Either way, what does it matter? He teamed up with 2 All Stars so what? Don't you need multiple All Stars to win a title? 95% of the time you do. He showed selflessness in taking less money and agreeing to share the spotlight. Those are commendable acts. But instead he's ridiculed? Why? Because he's changing the game? Because he's doing things his way and not they way you think he should? LeBron was chastised for choosing St. Vincent St. Mary over Buchtel in Akron Ohio too. Why the eff would he go to that school? How'd that work out for him? Unis made by adidas, corporate sponsors, nationally televised games, $100 million sneaker contract (waaaaayyyyy more than young MJ lol). But you should really get over the hate because his day as a champion is surely coming and he'll probably be a younger champion than MJ too. Hard facts to face but hey, life goes on.


Only a few things in life work off age and that is being 21 to drink and 25 for your car insurance to go down and 26 where you don't have to register for the army anymore, other than that it is meaningless. In real life age isn't a big deal. If I am in college at 15 years old and someone is 18, but we are both juniors and the 18 year old is performing better, no one is going to give the 15 year old slack for not being as good. If it was his decision to go to school at that time than he will have to be at the level of his peers.
If I am 26 at a company and been there 5 years and had advanced in positions while someone else started at 18 and been there and been there 8 years and never advanced, the younger person isn't going to get a break because he was younger.
Not to mention the difference in the league in the 80's where the Eastern Conference was loaded as hell and also where you had to deal with Peak Magic and Peak Bird is totally different. Lebron was in a league with no stars really at there prime or peak anymore. Duncan, Shaq were out of there primes and peak and so was Garnett. Even Kobe was out of his prime area.
And like I said, what is your loyalty to Lebron over Wade? If you are a Heat fan why support Lebron over Wade, when it was Wade that actually brought Miami it's only title.

And no Lebron was not more productive than MJ. MJ had a 29.9 PER and a .267 WS/PER 48 Minutes while Lebron had a 26.9 PER and a .227 WS/PER 48 minutes in the season.
In the playoffs MJ's PER was 29.6 and WS/PER Minutes was .249 while Lebron's PER was 26.3 and WS/PER Minutes was .222.
So MJ had better stats and contributed more to winning.

dodie53
06-25-2011, 08:24 AM
poor scottie

sammid21
06-25-2011, 08:28 AM
I think what people need to understand is how young LeBron James is. When you think about that logically you realize he has accomplished way more than MJ did by the same age. On and off the court, either way, there's no comparison. Let's investigate shall we.....

At age 26, Michael Jordan had 1 league MVP couple with a DPOY in the same season and a total of three playoff series wins. At the same age, LeBron has 2 MVPs, 11 series wins and has been to the Finals twice. So to anyone who says "Michael Jordan would have never scored 8 points in a Finals game,"... well that's because MJ was never in the Finals that young. His line for or the night would have been 0-0 for zero points because his team didn't qualify for the championship round at that point in his career. In other words: you can't score if your team's not playing.

For their careers MJ averaged 30.1 ppg and 5.3 assists. LeBron is currently at 27.7 with 7 assists. Using the hockey formula for points (goals or in this case points plus assists or in this case assists x2 for each basket) LeBron's 41.7 point responsibility is greater than the 40.7 MJ was responsible for. So MJ scored more, but LeBron has been responsible for more points per game.

Off the court LeBron is already (and has been for a while) a global icon. Jordan's brand didn't really take off until the 90's once the Bulls started winning titles. LeBron has been in your face since High School. He has way more power and influence than Jordan had at the same age. Again, its not even comparable. Jordan took an executive job with the Wizards, tried to build a team to come back and play with. What a pitiful and embarrassing disaster that turned out to be. Meanwhile, Baby Bron is building title contenders as he enters his prime. Wow. And his influence is felt throughout the league. Denver traded Melo because of the "LeBron effect." CP3? What's gonna happen with him? Ask LeBron, isn't he is agent or something? :laugh2:

For those "old enough to have seen MJ play" (and I was) people, maybe you just idolized MJ as a youngin and now that you're older you can't come to grips that this young cat, younger than you is doing incredible things at a ridiculous rate.

Hate him all you want, but he's the most gifted player to ever play the game. And he's accomplished more than the great MJ did at the same age. Not to mention he is in prime position to win a whole lot of titles.

The hate is ridiculous because all this man did was switch teams. He did it on TV so what? Isn't that just one big *** tweet? He didn't tell the Cavs so what? Just like the Cavs didn't tell Irving he was their pick? Either way, what does it matter? He teamed up with 2 All Stars so what? Don't you need multiple All Stars to win a title? 95% of the time you do. He showed selflessness in taking less money and agreeing to share the spotlight. Those are commendable acts. But instead he's ridiculed? Why? Because he's changing the game? Because he's doing things his way and not they way you think he should? LeBron was chastised for choosing St. Vincent St. Mary over Buchtel in Akron Ohio too. Why the eff would he go to that school? How'd that work out for him? Unis made by adidas, corporate sponsors, nationally televised games, $100 million sneaker contract (waaaaayyyyy more than young MJ lol). But you should really get over the hate because his day as a champion is surely coming and he'll probably be a younger champion than MJ too. Hard facts to face but hey, life goes on.

True but understand that lebron has been in the league a lot longer than mj at 26. And Jordan dominated the game more than lebron ever did when comparing them by years in the league instead of age. I mean look at Kobe, he is on the decline at the time when mj was in the peak of his prime at his age. Wear n tear will hit lebron soon than it did for mj because he was in the league at 18

3ballbomber
06-25-2011, 08:45 AM
nothing like completely chocking in the finals to get someone to retract statements haha. or maybe pippen doing interviews sober now.

Sly Guy
06-25-2011, 08:46 AM
lol scottie, this is why you aren't in anyone's front office!

Kyben36
06-25-2011, 09:03 AM
pippen talks alot when the bulls sign his paycheck still. we gave him a nothing job and he should just keep his mouth shut.

SA5195
06-25-2011, 11:23 AM
If Lebron won, he wouldn't have said this.

LakersIn5
06-25-2011, 11:59 AM
The finals? How could he watch a player that wasn't even there?..

lebron was in the finals. he was wearing no.6 for the heat. he even got a triple double in game 5.

BigBlueCrew
06-25-2011, 12:10 PM
True but understand that lebron has been in the league a lot longer than mj at 26. And Jordan dominated the game more than lebron ever did when comparing them by years in the league instead of age. I mean look at Kobe, he is on the decline at the time when mj was in the peak of his prime at his age. Wear n tear will hit lebron soon than it did for mj because he was in the league at 18

Well said :clap:

The Final Boss
06-25-2011, 01:04 PM
whose Cristiano RinaLOLdo?

A kid who's the best in a sport that is light years more difficult than basketball.

Who's Koston?

Jimmy Grecs> Eric Koston

theheatles
06-25-2011, 01:34 PM
True but understand that lebron has been in the league a lot longer than mj at 26. And Jordan dominated the game more than lebron ever did when comparing them by years in the league instead of age. I mean look at Kobe, he is on the decline at the time when mj was in the peak of his prime at his age. Wear n tear will hit lebron soon than it did for mj because he was in the league at 18

assuming lebron will hit a decline like kobe is stupid and ignorant...this season brian shaw said when kobe was younger kobe would always make fun of shaw and the vets for icing their knees and taking cold baths...and he went on to say kobe didn't really start taking care of himself like he should have until he turned 30...but lebron on the other hand is like T.O. of the nba in the way he takes care of his body...lebron has been doing everything to preserve his career since he broke into the league

actual age is the best way to compare careers, going by just seasons in the league is misleading because every player has their own path...and remember jordan retired twice so he extended his career and it seems longer than it actually was...

kobe and bron will both pass mj in total pts as wing players and hopefully that lessens the exaggerated legend of mj

Jaji
06-25-2011, 02:17 PM
True but understand that lebron has been in the league a lot longer than mj at 26. And Jordan dominated the game more than lebron ever did when comparing them by years in the league instead of age. I mean look at Kobe, he is on the decline at the time when mj was in the peak of his prime at his age. Wear n tear will hit lebron soon than it did for mj because he was in the league at 18

Jordan entered the league after 3 years of coaching from Dean Smith, one of the all time great coaches. LeBron was a High Schooler who was coached by his friend's dad. I think its safe to say MJ was a little more seasoned and mature by the time he got to the league. LeBron has 8-10 more years in this league and has yet to hit his ceiling. And one would be perfectly sane to think LeBron's team can win the next four titles. Seriously. That's not out of the question and that would be something MJ never did.

As far as Kobe being in decline, the guy just recently won back to back titles (with another trip to the Finals just before that making it 3 straight) and averaged 25 ppg last year while making All NBA 1st team. He was All Star game MVP and all defense 1st team. I'd say he's been pretty darn good recently. He is still one of the top 2 2's in the league along with D Wade.

And that age Jordan wasn't at his peak in terms of scoring either as from age 32 and on his scoring dipped to 30 ppg and never reached that point again. So I don't know what you mean in terms of that. If its championships you mean, Kobe just made the FInals 3 years in a row, with only a loss to Boston preventing a 2nd 3peat. If its scoring then both Kobe and MJ saw a dip in production at the same age. But both were still All NBA 1st teamers as well so... :shrug:.

Raoul Duke
06-25-2011, 02:22 PM
Jordan entered the league after 3 years of coaching from Dean Smith, one of the all time great coaches. LeBron was a High Schooler who was coached by his friend's dad. I think its safe to say MJ was a little more seasoned and mature by the time he got to the league. LeBron has 8-10 more years in this league and has yet to hit his ceiling. And one would be perfectly sane to think LeBron's team can win the next four titles. Seriously. That's not out of the question and that would be something MJ never did.

As far as Kobe being in decline, the guy just recently won back to back titles (with another trip to the Finals just before that making it 3 straight) and averaged 25 ppg last year while making All NBA 1st team. He was All Star game MVP and all defense 1st team. I'd say he's been pretty darn good recently. He is still one of the top 2 2's in the league along with D Wade.

And that age Jordan wasn't at his peak in terms of scoring either as from age 32 and on his scoring dipped to 30 ppg and never reached that point again. So I don't know what you mean in terms of that. If its championships you mean, Kobe just made the FInals 3 years in a row, with only a loss to Boston preventing a 2nd 3peat. If its scoring then both Kobe and MJ saw a dip in production at the same age. But both were still All NBA 1st teamers as well so... :shrug:.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/8143/mj-vs-lebron-what-the-stats-say

There. Half the leg-work has already been done for you. If you can fill in the gaps with some advanced stats that support your argument then fine, but otherwise it's a bunch of hot air.

knightstemplar
06-25-2011, 02:27 PM
lebron cant even win a ring with a prime wade and bosh lol

Lakers ALL DAY
06-25-2011, 02:27 PM
Jordan entered the league after 3 years of coaching from Dean Smith, one of the all time great coaches. LeBron was a High Schooler who was coached by his friend's dad. I think its safe to say MJ was a little more seasoned and mature by the time he got to the league. LeBron has 8-10 more years in this league and has yet to hit his ceiling. And one would be perfectly sane to think LeBron's team can win the next four titles. Seriously. That's not out of the question and that would be something MJ never did.As far as Kobe being in decline, the guy just recently won back to back titles (with another trip to the Finals just before that making it 3 straight) and averaged 25 ppg last year while making All NBA 1st team. He was All Star game MVP and all defense 1st team. I'd say he's been pretty darn good recently. He is still one of the top 2 2's in the league along with D Wade.

And that age Jordan wasn't at his peak in terms of scoring either as from age 32 and on his scoring dipped to 30 ppg and never reached that point again. So I don't know what you mean in terms of that. If its championships you mean, Kobe just made the FInals 3 years in a row, with only a loss to Boston preventing a 2nd 3peat. If its scoring then both Kobe and MJ saw a dip in production at the same age. But both were still All NBA 1st teamers as well so... :shrug:.

:facepalm:Why would we think that.......Seeing how they won this years title with and are on the way to not 5, not 6.......Get the **** outta here with that...

You mean, the same James that blamed Cleveland and now has BIG help and came up SMALL........**** off.

Lebron is the WORST best player of recent memoryyyyyyyy:facepalm:

Jaji
06-25-2011, 02:29 PM
Only a few things in life work off age and that is being 21 to drink and 25 for your car insurance to go down and 26 where you don't have to register for the army anymore, other than that it is meaningless. In real life age isn't a big deal. If I am in college at 15 years old and someone is 18, but we are both juniors and the 18 year old is performing better, no one is going to give the 15 year old slack for not being as good. If it was his decision to go to school at that time than he will have to be at the level of his peers.
If I am 26 at a company and been there 5 years and had advanced in positions while someone else started at 18 and been there and been there 8 years and never advanced, the younger person isn't going to get a break because he was younger.
Not to mention the difference in the league in the 80's where the Eastern Conference was loaded as hell and also where you had to deal with Peak Magic and Peak Bird is totally different. Lebron was in a league with no stars really at there prime or peak anymore. Duncan, Shaq were out of there primes and peak and so was Garnett. Even Kobe was out of his prime area.
And like I said, what is your loyalty to Lebron over Wade? If you are a Heat fan why support Lebron over Wade, when it was Wade that actually brought Miami it's only title.

And no Lebron was not more productive than MJ. MJ had a 29.9 PER and a .267 WS/PER 48 Minutes while Lebron had a 26.9 PER and a .227 WS/PER 48 minutes in the season.
In the playoffs MJ's PER was 29.6 and WS/PER Minutes was .249 while Lebron's PER was 26.3 and WS/PER Minutes was .222.
So MJ had better stats and contributed more to winning.

Age does play a factor. LeBron will probably play until he's 36 or so, like most players. He has at least 8-10 more years in the league just like MJ did at the same age. That means the same number of opportunities to win titles in that same time span.

And as far as the East being a powerhouse back then, check your facts. The Bulls made the playoffs at 30-52 one year. That's far worse than the recent "weak East" has been with sub .500 teams getting in. 30-52? Three times MJ's Bulls made it to the playoffs with a sub .500 record. Meanwhile, LeBron missed the playoffs his 1st 2 years (the years MJ spent in college). So since even that time, LeBron has accomplished a lot more in terms of winning. So your claim MJ did more to help his team win is false because if he did more to help his team win he would have won more. LeBron dominated the regular season in Cleveland before losing to the conference champion every year in the playoffs. Meanwhile, the Bulls annually snuck into the playoffs for years only to get waxed in the 1st round every time. So who was helping their team win more? 3 series wins and no conference titles to 11 series wins and 2 conference titles at the same age (in other words, with the same ammount of time left in their careers to accomplish whatever).

Jaji
06-25-2011, 02:40 PM
:facepalm:Why would we think that.......Seeing how they won this years title with and are on the way to not 5, not 6.......Get the **** outta here with that...

You mean, the same James that blamed Cleveland and now has BIG help and came up SMALL........**** off.

Lebron is the WORST best player of recent memoryyyyyyyy:facepalm:

I don't know too many people who picked Miami to win it this year. Especially not in July. Too many holes on that team. First they underachieved but then they overachieved by making it to the Finals in the first place. Even though they lost they are still ahead of the curve. A lot of experts doubted they'd get past Boston or Chicago. But they are right on track. They'll only be better next year with the incorporation of Haslem and Miller for an entire season. LeBron and Wade will improve and be hungrier. I'm not saying they will win the next four but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. Who's gonna beat them other than themselves?

Jaji
06-25-2011, 02:41 PM
lebron cant even win a ring with a prime wade and bosh lol

Just like Kobe couldn't win one with a prime Shaq lol. Oh wait, but then they got over the hump :facepalm:.

justinnum1
06-25-2011, 02:42 PM
:yawn:

Sadds The Gr8
06-25-2011, 02:43 PM
I don't know too many people who picked Miami to win it this year. Especially not in July. Too many holes on that team. First they underachieved but then they overachieved by making it to the Finals in the first place. Even though they lost they are still ahead of the curve. A lot of experts doubted they'd get past Boston or Chicago. But they are right on track. They'll only be better next year with the incorporation of Haslem and Miller for an entire season. LeBron and Wade will improve and be hungrier. I'm not saying they will win the next four but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. Who's gonna beat them other than themselves?

are u kidding me? in the pre-season pretty much everyone picked them to win...then everyone bandwagoned off when they started off crap, then jumped back on the wagon when the playoffs started.

m26555
06-25-2011, 02:43 PM
I think what people need to understand is how young LeBron James is. When you think about that logically you realize he has accomplished way more than MJ did by the same age. On and off the court, either way, there's no comparison. Let's investigate shall we.....

At age 26, Michael Jordan had 1 league MVP couple with a DPOY in the same season and a total of three playoff series wins. At the same age, LeBron has 2 MVPs, 11 series wins and has been to the Finals twice. So to anyone who says "Michael Jordan would have never scored 8 points in a Finals game,"... well that's because MJ was never in the Finals that young. His line for or the night would have been 0-0 for zero points because his team didn't qualify for the championship round at that point in his career. In other words: you can't score if your team's not playing.

For their careers MJ averaged 30.1 ppg and 5.3 assists. LeBron is currently at 27.7 with 7 assists. Using the hockey formula for points (goals or in this case points plus assists or in this case assists x2 for each basket) LeBron's 41.7 point responsibility is greater than the 40.7 MJ was responsible for. So MJ scored more, but LeBron has been responsible for more points per game.

Off the court LeBron is already (and has been for a while) a global icon. Jordan's brand didn't really take off until the 90's once the Bulls started winning titles. LeBron has been in your face since High School. He has way more power and influence than Jordan had at the same age. Again, its not even comparable. Jordan took an executive job with the Wizards, tried to build a team to come back and play with. What a pitiful and embarrassing disaster that turned out to be. Meanwhile, Baby Bron is building title contenders as he enters his prime. Wow. And his influence is felt throughout the league. Denver traded Melo because of the "LeBron effect." CP3? What's gonna happen with him? Ask LeBron, isn't he is agent or something? :laugh2:

For those "old enough to have seen MJ play" (and I was) people, maybe you just idolized MJ as a youngin and now that you're older you can't come to grips that this young cat, younger than you is doing incredible things at a ridiculous rate.

Hate him all you want, but he's the most gifted player to ever play the game. And he's accomplished more than the great MJ did at the same age. Not to mention he is in prime position to win a whole lot of titles.

The hate is ridiculous because all this man did was switch teams. He did it on TV so what? Isn't that just one big *** tweet? He didn't tell the Cavs so what? Just like the Cavs didn't tell Irving he was their pick? Either way, what does it matter? He teamed up with 2 All Stars so what? Don't you need multiple All Stars to win a title? 95% of the time you do. He showed selflessness in taking less money and agreeing to share the spotlight. Those are commendable acts. But instead he's ridiculed? Why? Because he's changing the game? Because he's doing things his way and not they way you think he should? LeBron was chastised for choosing St. Vincent St. Mary over Buchtel in Akron Ohio too. Why the eff would he go to that school? How'd that work out for him? Unis made by adidas, corporate sponsors, nationally televised games, $100 million sneaker contract (waaaaayyyyy more than young MJ lol). But you should really get over the hate because his day as a champion is surely coming and he'll probably be a younger champion than MJ too. Hard facts to face but hey, life goes on.
Yeah. A player who has a mediocre jump shot, no low post game, and NO clue how to play off the ball is the "most gifted player to ever play the game." :laugh2:

Just shut up already. You're making yourself look like an even bigger fool than Pippen did.

LeBron will NEVER BE JORDAN. END. OF. DISCUSSION.

JLynn943
06-25-2011, 02:44 PM
Wait, so people still believe that Pippen said that LeBron is the GOAT? I thought it was incredibly clear that he only said that LeBron could become that good, not that he already is.

JLynn943
06-25-2011, 02:47 PM
are u kidding me? in the pre-season pretty much everyone picked them to win...then everyone bandwagoned off when they started off crap, then jumped back on the wagon when the playoffs started.

Pretty sure at the beginning of the season no one thought they would make it past Boston. Even if they did, the majority of people (myself included) were still predicting LA to three-peat.

tredigs
06-25-2011, 02:52 PM
A kid who's the best in a sport that is light years more difficult than basketball.

Who's Koston?

Jimmy Grecs> Eric Koston

Well, 2nd best. Messi owns the Porto flop machine.

Busenitz > both.


As for Pippen, he's all over the place. And it's one mans words... even with his tight knowledge of Jordan, who really cares what he has to say? Or about this comparison? People really need to get over this infatuation of trying to write/re-write legacies as they are happening.

Jaji
06-25-2011, 02:54 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/8143/mj-vs-lebron-what-the-stats-say

There. Half the leg-work has already been done for you. If you can fill in the gaps with some advanced stats that support your argument then fine, but otherwise it's a bunch of hot air.

The URL you requested does not exist, but you may be interested in the content below.

But whatever that link stated doesn't matter. You guys are hypocrites. LeBron fills up the stat sheet like no other and you say "he doesn't have any rings, he hasn't won anything," but at the same age, Jordan hadn't even done half the winning LeBron did. So since that is a fact, winning doesn't matter anymore, now its all about numbers. And not even the official NBA stats (like wins! :rolleyes:), only advanced stats that mean nothing because the bottom line is supposedly winning. I'll state it again, MJ at age 26, 3 playoff series wins, zero conference titles, Lebron at age 26, 11 playoff series wins and 2 conference titles. Up to this point in their lives, LeBron has had a better basketball career than Michael Jordan. Sorry.

Sadds The Gr8
06-25-2011, 02:55 PM
Pretty sure at the beginning of the season no one thought they would make it past Boston. Even if they did, the majority of people (myself included) were still predicting LA to three-peat.

Well from what i seen, most analysts had Miami winning the championship from pre-season predictions.

Jaji
06-25-2011, 03:00 PM
Yeah. A player who has a mediocre jump shot, no low post game, and NO clue how to play off the ball is the "most gifted player to ever play the game." :laugh2:

Just shut up already. You're making yourself look like an even bigger fool than Pippen did.

LeBron will NEVER BE JORDAN. END. OF. DISCUSSION.

There's the flaw in your logic right there. Why would LeBron want to be Jordan? You are basically manifesting the limitations of your simplistic mind with a statement like that. As if Michael Jordan was the end all be all of basketball. He'd have to be a perfect player for that and he missed some shots before and lost some games so there goes that theory right out the window. Pure blindness is all you exhibit.

Raoul Duke
06-25-2011, 03:01 PM
The URL you requested does not exist, but you may be interested in the content below.

But whatever that link stated doesn't matter. You guys are hypocrites. LeBron fills up the stat sheet like no other and you say "he doesn't have any rings, he hasn't won anything," but at the same age, Jordan hadn't even done half the winning LeBron did. So since that is a fact, winning doesn't matter anymore, now its all about numbers. And not even the official NBA stats (like wins! :rolleyes:), only advanced stats that mean nothing because the bottom line is supposedly winning. I'll state it again, MJ at age 26, 3 playoff series wins, zero conference titles, Lebron at age 26, 11 playoff series wins and 2 conference titles. Up to this point in their lives, LeBron has had a better basketball career than Michael Jordan. Sorry.

I just clicked on the link, out of your quote, and it took me right to the article. Anywho, just google "Tom Haberstroh MJ vs. Lebron: What the stats say".

Y'know, when people talk about Jordan's career accomplishments as an indicator of his superiority, guys like you say "it's a team game, wins don't make the player". When we flip the script and show you that Jordan's individual impact on the game was also more impressive with a "by the numbers" approach, you start grasping for straws and talking about how he won more playoff series at his age than Jordan.

I give up.

If you want to believe something that isn't supported by any evidence while choosing not to believe something supported by overwhelming evidence, it's your choice.

Jaji
06-25-2011, 03:12 PM
Well from what i seen, most analysts had Miami winning the championship from pre-season predictions.

Who? No one picked Miami in the preseason except Jeff Van Gundy. And most experts had them losing to Boston and Chicago as well. I, myself certainly didn't see them getting to the Finals this year as they only had 3 reliable players. 4-12 they were the least efficient team in the league last year. Sure they had a pep rally but that was to promote their new free agents. This team was built to move forward not for "one last shot for us to get a title" like Boston was. The Heat had a good year overall. They underachieved in the beginning starting 9-8, then overachieved by getting to the Finals. Then they underachieved again by not playing their best against Dallas. But they are definitely ahead of the curve as they already proved their dominance in the East by manhandling the C's and Bulls.

AIRMAR72
06-25-2011, 03:24 PM
I think what people need to understand is how young LeBron James is. When you think about that logically you realize he has accomplished way more than MJ did by the same age. On and off the court, either way, there's no comparison. Let's investigate shall we.....

At age 26, Michael Jordan had 1 league MVP couple with a DPOY in the same season and a total of three playoff series wins. At the same age, LeBron has 2 MVPs, 11 series wins and has been to the Finals twice. So to anyone who says "Michael Jordan would have never scored 8 points in a Finals game,"... well that's because MJ was never in the Finals that young. His line for or the night would have been 0-0 for zero points because his team didn't qualify for the championship round at that point in his career. In other words: you can't score if your team's not playing.

For their careers MJ averaged 30.1 ppg and 5.3 assists. LeBron is currently at 27.7 with 7 assists. Using the hockey formula for points (goals or in this case points plus assists or in this case assists x2 for each basket) LeBron's 41.7 point responsibility is greater than the 40.7 MJ was responsible for. So MJ scored more, but LeBron has been responsible for more points per game.

Off the court LeBron is already (and has been for a while) a global icon. Jordan's brand didn't really take off until the 90's once the Bulls started winning titles. LeBron has been in your face since High School. He has way more power and influence than Jordan had at the same age. Again, its not even comparable. Jordan took an executive job with the Wizards, tried to build a team to come back and play with. What a pitiful and embarrassing disaster that turned out to be. Meanwhile, Baby Bron is building title contenders as he enters his prime. Wow. And his influence is felt throughout the league. Denver traded Melo because of the "LeBron effect." CP3? What's gonna happen with him? Ask LeBron, isn't he is agent or something? :laugh2:

For those "old enough to have seen MJ play" (and I was) people, maybe you just idolized MJ as a youngin and now that you're older you can't come to grips that this young cat, younger than you is doing incredible things at a ridiculous rate.

Hate him all you want, but he's the most gifted player to ever play the game. And he's accomplished more than the great MJ did at the same age. Not to mention he is in prime position to win a whole lot of titles.

The hate is ridiculous because all this man did was switch teams. He did it on TV so what? Isn't that just one big *** tweet? He didn't tell the Cavs so what? Just like the Cavs didn't tell Irving he was their pick? Either way, what does it matter? He teamed up with 2 All Stars so what? Don't you need multiple All Stars to win a title? 95% of the time you do. He showed selflessness in taking less money and agreeing to share the spotlight. Those are commendable acts. But instead he's ridiculed? Why? Because he's changing the game? Because he's doing things his way and not they way you think he should? LeBron was chastised for choosing St. Vincent St. Mary over Buchtel in Akron Ohio too. Why the eff would he go to that school? How'd that work out for him? Unis made by adidas, corporate sponsors, nationally televised games, $100 million sneaker contract (waaaaayyyyy more than young MJ lol). But you should really get over the hate because his day as a champion is surely coming and he'll probably be a younger champion than MJ too. Hard facts to face but hey, life goes on.
this IS total garbage and im A fan of bron but your TYPING straight up nonsense cause IF YOU SAW jordan played you would KNOW theres simply no comparsion its different era guys backthan took pride in playing D IF BRON STUGGLE AGAINST dallas D(dallas D PLAYING THE PAINT) imagine him in jordan era were there is no elegal defense no 3ec violation 3pointline 2 1/2ft back guys were able to pinch you and squeeze your kidney since there was no hand rule forearm shivers etc and even if HE didnt win a ring he would still be the best ever to play nobody defends or get buckets in mulitple ways like JORDAN and he look good doing it floating to the hoop in traffic with is signature TRI-STAR POSE the man is often imitated but NEVER duplicated bron his noWHERE near jordan when it comes world iconic athlete STATUS jordan made it possible for players like bron to EAT and to be endorse jordan transform whites folks into loving basketbal and there kids wanted to be JUST LIKE MIKE even the bushman in the motherland(africa) know who jordan is look ive been waiting since 93 for someone as close grant hill was close before the injuries yes grant was better than bron penny and tracy but the injuries than kobe byrant who is more durable than REST but lack the WILL to get buckets when it counts but his style is a watered down version of jordan

Jaji
06-25-2011, 03:32 PM
I just clicked on the link, out of your quote, and it took me right to the article. Anywho, just google "Tom Haberstroh MJ vs. Lebron: What the stats say".

Y'know, when people talk about Jordan's career accomplishments as an indicator of his superiority, guys like you say "it's a team game, wins don't make the player". When we flip the script and show you that Jordan's individual impact on the game was also more impressive with a "by the numbers" approach, you start grasping for straws and talking about how he won more playoff series at his age than Jordan.

I give up.

If you want to believe something that isn't supported by any evidence while choosing not to believe something supported by overwhelming evidence, it's your choice.

Comparing a silly little thing like wins is "grasping at straws?" :laugh2:

Okay, buddy.

LeBron's youth only aids the argument for him because while Jordan's NBA statistics began after 3 years of coaching from the great Dean Smith, LeBron's numbers include a those of a teenager far from developed, matured, or polished, learning and growing up on the job. Obviously MJ came into the league more prepared as he was a young man with fine coaching vs LeBron who was a kid as raw as they come. Despite all of that, yes, LeBron has still won more up to this point. Period. And LeBron has had more individual success as well (2 MVPs to none, 7 All NBA selections to 5, 2 All Star Game MVPs to 1). So wins or individual accolades, LeBron has had more success. And we won't even talk about money and power because those heavily favor LeBron to this point as well.

knightstemplar
06-25-2011, 03:37 PM
Just like Kobe couldn't win one with a prime Shaq lol. Oh wait, but then they got over the hump :facepalm:.

what he do before that? win 3 in a row
what did he do without shaq? win 2 in a row
not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, but 5 championships
u :mad:

Jaji
06-25-2011, 03:40 PM
this IS total garbage and im A fan of bron but your TYPING straight up nonsense cause IF YOU SAW jordan played you would KNOW theres simply no comparsion its different era guys backthan took pride in playing D IF BRON STUGGLE AGAINST dallas D(dallas D PLAYING THE PAINT) imagine him in jordan era were there is no elegal defense no 3ec violation 3pointline 2 1/2ft back guys were able to pinch you and squeeze your kidney since there was no hand rule forearm shivers etc and even if HE didnt win a ring he would still be the best ever to play nobody defends or get buckets in mulitple ways like JORDAN and he look good doing it floating to the hoop in traffic with is signature TRI-STAR POSE the man is often imitated but NEVER duplicated bron his noWHERE near jordan when it comes world iconic athlete STATUS jordan made it possible for players like bron to EAT and to be endorse jordan transform whites folks into loving basketbal and there kids wanted to be JUST LIKE MIKE even the bushman in the motherland(africa) know who jordan is look ive been waiting since 93 for someone as close grant hill was close before the injuries yes grant was better than bron penny and tracy but the injuries than kobe byrant who is more durable than REST but lack the WILL to get buckets when it counts but his style is a watered down version of jordan

:laugh2: You have NO CLUE what you're talking about :laugh2:

No illegal defense when Mike played? WTH? There's no illegal defense now! Now you can play a zone. :facepalm:

3 point line 2 and a half feet back? :facepalm:

I pretty much stopped reading at that point, buddy. Good laugh though :laugh2:.

gaughan333
06-25-2011, 04:03 PM
There's the flaw in your logic right there. Why would LeBron want to be Jordan? You are basically manifesting the limitations of your simplistic mind with a statement like that. As if Michael Jordan was the end all be all of basketball. He'd have to be a perfect player for that and he missed some shots before and lost some games so there goes that theory right out the window. Pure blindness is all you exhibit.

I think any NBA player would be happy if they were to turn out like michael jordan. Oh, btw hows lebron's dick taste?

Jaji
06-25-2011, 04:07 PM
I think any NBA player would be happy if they were tp turn out like michael jordan. Oh, btw hows lebron's dick taste?

Good one :rolleyes:. In other words: I can't disprove what you said with any factual evidence so I'll revert back to good old elementary school insults. Great job there, buddy. Or should I say dumb dumb head? :rolleyes:

gaughan333
06-25-2011, 04:14 PM
Good one :rolleyes:. In other words: I can't disprove what you said with any factual evidence so I'll revert back to good old elementary school insults. Great job there, buddy. Or should I say dumb dumb head? :rolleyes:

Um, no. I'm don't use factual evidence because I don't care enough to. Your homerism love for lebron stops you from seeing this from an objective point of view.

sammid21
06-25-2011, 04:51 PM
Just because mj was coached by dean smith isn't a good argument he was a one dimensional player until he 3rd year where he decided to improve his overall game. Unlike lebron who is in his 8th year and his jumper hasn't improved that much and has no post game. He is the same player since year one. Yes he is young and has time to improve but some players like lebron get accustomed to their game and don't decide to improve it because they are already think they are accomplished. In 8 years I haven't seen a significant change as mj did in his first 8 years.

tredigs
06-25-2011, 05:01 PM
this IS total garbage and im A fan of bron but your TYPING straight up nonsense cause IF YOU SAW jordan played you would KNOW theres simply no comparsion its different era guys backthan took pride in playing D IF BRON STUGGLE AGAINST dallas D(dallas D PLAYING THE PAINT) imagine him in jordan era were there is no elegal defense no 3ec violation 3pointline 2 1/2ft back guys were able to pinch you and squeeze your kidney since there was no hand rule forearm shivers etc and even if HE didnt win a ring he would still be the best ever to play nobody defends or get buckets in mulitple ways like JORDAN and he look good doing it floating to the hoop in traffic with is signature TRI-STAR POSE the man is often imitated but NEVER duplicated bron his noWHERE near jordan when it comes world iconic athlete STATUS jordan made it possible for players like bron to EAT and to be endorse jordan transform whites folks into loving basketbal and there kids wanted to be JUST LIKE MIKE even the bushman in the motherland(africa) know who jordan is look ive been waiting since 93 for someone as close grant hill was close before the injuries yes grant was better than bron penny and tracy but the injuries than kobe byrant who is more durable than REST but lack the WILL to get buckets when it counts but his style is a watered down version of jordan

18 grammar Natzi's were killed in the making of this post.

NBA_Starter
06-25-2011, 05:01 PM
See what had happened was :facepalm:

tredigs
06-25-2011, 05:08 PM
Just because mj was coached by dean smith isn't a good argument he was a one dimensional player until he 3rd year where he decided to improve his overall game. Unlike lebron who is in his 8th year and his jumper hasn't improved that much and has no post game. He is the same player since year one. Yes he is young and has time to improve but some players like lebron get accustomed to their game and don't decide to improve it because they are already think they are accomplished. In 8 years I haven't seen a significant change as mj did in his first 8 years.

The only high volume scorer who had a more efficient mid-range game than Lebron this season was Dirk. Durant? Nope. Wade? Negative. Kobe? Not a chance.

Beyond that, Lebron didn't come into the league anywhere NEAR being considered an elite defender or having a positive impact on that end, and at this point he is arguably top 3 in the entire league. The improvements he's made over the seasons (let alone year 1) have been tremendous. His offensive efficiency also continues to improve since his early years.

In closing, take the blinders off and look closer. He has room to grow, but he has DRASTICALLY improved - to the point where his skill set for his size is as deadly as virtually any player to come through the league.

Jaji
06-25-2011, 05:18 PM
Um, no. I'm don't use factual evidence because I don't care enough to. Your homerism love for lebron stops you from seeing this from an objective point of view.

You don't need logic? :laugh2: Okay guy.

No homerism here. Just facts. There has been no emotional attachment to any of my posts. Just hardcore facts and numbers that you have been completely unable to refute.

ankit
06-25-2011, 05:22 PM
Kobe , Michael Jordan and Phil the King of 10 rings nuff siad the Greaterst Basketball minds. :cool:

OaklandsFinest
06-25-2011, 05:33 PM
First of all he said Lebron was a more complete player ... FACT... He never once said he was better said he may or had a chance too. Kobe fans stop with the Lebron hate its pathetic and sickening.

BigCityofDreams
06-25-2011, 05:37 PM
Who? No one picked Miami in the preseason except Jeff Van Gundy. And most experts had them losing to Boston and Chicago as well. I, myself certainly didn't see them getting to the Finals this year as they only had 3 reliable players. 4-12 they were the least efficient team in the league last year. Sure they had a pep rally but that was to promote their new free agents. This team was built to move forward not for "one last shot for us to get a title" like Boston was. The Heat had a good year overall. They underachieved in the beginning starting 9-8, then overachieved by getting to the Finals. Then they underachieved again by not playing their best against Dallas. But they are definitely ahead of the curve as they already proved their dominance in the East by manhandling the C's and Bulls.

That's not true a number of ppl picked the Heat to win the championship this yr. They were the flavor of the month and a lot of experts were on the Heat train.

BigCityofDreams
06-25-2011, 05:45 PM
Just because mj was coached by dean smith isn't a good argument he was a one dimensional player until he 3rd year where he decided to improve his overall game. Unlike lebron who is in his 8th year and his jumper hasn't improved that much and has no post game. He is the same player since year one. Yes he is young and has time to improve but some players like lebron get accustomed to their game and don't decide to improve it because they are already think they are accomplished. In 8 years I haven't seen a significant change as mj did in his first 8 years.

Would it be fair to say that Lebron was better than Jordan talent wise in their early 20's but then in their mid 20's Jordan's overall game improved to the point where he just blows Lebron away?

Jaji
06-25-2011, 05:47 PM
That's not true a number of ppl picked the Heat to win the championship this yr. They were the flavor of the month and a lot of experts were on the Heat train.

Yeah a lot of experts. Just none that anyone can name. The Heat hate train was pretty popular that's about it. But it was obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that this team had a lot of holes.

Jaji
06-25-2011, 05:53 PM
Would it be fair to say that Lebron was better than Jordan talent wise in their early 20's but then in their mid 20's Jordan's overall game improved to the point where he just blows Lebron away?

No that wouldn't be fair at all because Jordan's game wasn't complete until hit late 20's while LeBron is still in his mid 20's. When Jordan was in his mid 20's he wasn't winning multiple MVPs and he damn sure wasn't winning very many playoff series.

BigCityofDreams
06-25-2011, 05:53 PM
Yeah a lot of experts. Just none that anyone can name. The Heat hate train was pretty popular that's about it. But it was obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that this team had a lot of holes.

They had a lot of holes but yet they made it to the finals and were up 2-1 on a Maverick team that no one outside of Dallas thought would win the chip.

BigCityofDreams
06-25-2011, 05:56 PM
No that wouldn't be fair at all because Jordan's game wasn't complete until hit late 20's while LeBron is still in his mid 20's. When Jordan was in his mid 20's he wasn't winning multiple MVPs and he damn sure wasn't winning very many playoff series.

He might not have won multiple MVPs or playoff series but his game was scary.

Jaji
06-25-2011, 06:16 PM
They had a lot of holes but yet they made it to the finals and were up 2-1 on a Maverick team that no one outside of Dallas thought would win the chip.

The Finals? Lol. That's way after they overachieved in the first place. They weren't expected to get past Boston or Chicago according to most experts.

BigCityofDreams
06-25-2011, 06:22 PM
The Finals? Lol. That's way after they overachieved in the first place. They weren't expected to get past Boston or Chicago according to most experts.

They were the favorites to win it all in the pre season but many ppl got off the bandwagon when they struggled. After the Lakers were bounced by the Mavs the Heat became the favorite to win it all.

And once they got past the C's and Bulls experts and fans were already crowning them championships. How can anyone believe they overachieved this yr?

Jaji
06-25-2011, 06:27 PM
He might not have won multiple MVPs or playoff series but his game was scary.

The same could be said for a lot of players. Kevin Durant's game is scary. Derrick Rose's game is scary. Blake Griffin's game is scary. :shrug:

Shlumpledink
06-25-2011, 06:27 PM
Whatever, Pippen got in over his head. Praising by statistics instead of accolades, wtf does that mean? He said he may be the best player ever, how is that taken out of context? He and the rest of the media need to get off of lebrons pipe. When theyre not on his jock they're on his ***. Pippen was just one of the many to hop on the bandwagon and hop right off as soon as it started going downhill

BigCityofDreams
06-25-2011, 06:30 PM
The same could be said for a lot of players. Kevin Durant's game is scary. Derrick Rose's game is scary. Blake Griffin's game is scary. :shrug:

But they're not Jordan though. Their game might be scary but they didn't do the things he did,

Jaji
06-25-2011, 06:43 PM
They were the favorites to win it all in the pre season but many ppl got off the bandwagon when they struggled. After the Lakers were bounced by the Mavs the Heat became the favorite to win it all.

And once they got past the C's and Bulls experts and fans were already crowning them championships. How can anyone believe they overachieved this yr?

Nah, bro you're mistaken. Anyone who picked Miami in July doesn't know much about basketball and they were obviously proved wrong. Anyone who knows the game knew this team had a lot of holes and knew it would take some time. Your problem is you're talking about 5 different dates. No one was thinking Miami until the Finals started but by then they had already surpassed expectations.

JordansBulls
06-25-2011, 08:18 PM
Nah, bro you're mistaken. Anyone who picked Miami in July doesn't know much about basketball and they were obviously proved wrong. Anyone who knows the game knew this team had a lot of holes and knew it would take some time. Your problem is you're talking about 5 different dates. No one was thinking Miami until the Finals started but by then they had already surpassed expectations.

2010-2011 Season


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=SummerForecast10-NBAChamps

1. LA Lakers - 52 votes
2. Miami Heat - 34 votes
3. Orlando Magic - 5 votes
4. Boston Celtics - 1 vote
5. Oklahoma City - 1 vote




http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=SummerForecast10-EastChamps


1. Miami - 66 votes
2. Orlando - 16 votes
3. Boston - 10 votes
4. Chicago - 1 vote




http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=SummerForecast10-EastStandings

CONF TEAM W L PCT 10 W 10 L 10 PCT
1
Miami Heat 61 21 .744 47 35 .573
Meet the Miami Globetrotters -- with the rest of the East playing the part of the Washington Generals. Our panel says the Super Friends should run circles around the rest of the conference, except perhaps for Orlando. Then again, Boston eliminated both D-Wade and King James a year ago, so that's why they play the postseason

2
Orlando Magic 56 26 .683 59 23 .720
The Magic stumbled vs. the Celtics in the East finals, but this is much the same team that won five series the past two postseasons. Orlando might have some magical maneuvers left, perhaps shipping out Vince Carter and/or finding a way to get Chris Paul. Until then, given Miami's summer, Orlando reverts to dangerous sleeper status.

3
Boston Celtics 51 31 .622 50 32 .610
The C's showed the regular season means nothing to them, beating the Cavs and Magic despite starting on the road, and almost doing the same to the Lakers. So it matters little that Boston is projected to win "only" 51 games, as long as it can get KG, Perk and the other Men in Green healthy for April, May and June.

4
Chicago Bulls 50 32 .610 41 41 .500
The East's second tier welcomes a new member: Chicago. The Bulls swung and missed on LeBron, D-Wade and CB4, but they did get Carlos Boozer, a deeper bench and a new coach, Tom Thibodeau. That and the sharp ascent of Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah mean that Chicago's sellout crowds finally have something to see.

5
Atlanta Hawks 48 34 .585 53 29 .646
Amazingly, Atlanta has improved for five straight seasons, but our panel says the streak ends here. The Hawks are a solid team that seems stuck in no man's land, having failed to make the conference finals for 40 years -- since the Lakers swept them in the 1970 Western Division finals -- and that probably won't change in 2011.

6
Milwaukee Bucks 46 36 .561 46 36 .561
The East seems to have six sure playoff teams, and for the first time in years, Milwaukee is a member of that echelon. Our panel remains in a prove-it-to-me posture regarding whether the Bucks can crack the East's upper crust, but if Brandon Jennings progresses and Andrew Bogut's arm is OK, the pieces are in place.

7
Charlotte Bobcats 39 43 .476 44 38 .537
Have they peaked? Fresh off of its best season in franchise history, Charlotte's roster looks weaker, its division looks stronger, and Larry Brown -- naturally -- looks like he's itching to leave. Still, with two spots up for grabs, they'll likely earn back-to-back playoff appearances and, in this scenario, a first-round rematch with the Magic.

8
New York Knicks 37 45 .451 29 53 .354
Knicks in the playoffs! But NY fans had more than an eight-game improvement in mind when the team entered the offseason with the ability to sign two superstars. The Amare addition should help, and Mike D'Antoni finally gets some horses to run his system, but the future remains murky. Still, Spike Lee has something to cheer about.




http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=SummerForecast10-WestStandings - considering the Hornets were to only be 38-44, and the big jump they have made because of CP3, he is MVP

The Heat were to dominant the East and they aren't even in 1st place and they have pretty much had their starting lineup in tact all year.


Forecast: 2010-11 Western Conference Standings
CONF TEAM W L PCT 10 W 10 L 10 PCT
1
Los Angeles Lakers 58 24 .707 57 25 .695
The heavyweight champs have given us a True Hollywood Story of classic characters: the loner hero, the European intellectual, the wise old cap'n, the Queensbridge kid, the loopy lefty, the young star on the make, the eccentric owner and his family, and the Zen Master. Oh yeah, they're pretty good at basketball, too.

2
*Oklahoma City Thunder 52 30 .634 50 32 .610
Is this the same team that stood 1-16 just 20 months ago? Yes, and it's the same team that put a serious scare in the champs in Round 1. In what could be a wild Western scramble for second, our panel gives the Thunder 0.21 wins more than the Mavs, meaning a potential West finals bid for the Durant-Westbrook-Green team.

3
*Dallas Mavericks 52 30 .634 55 27 .671
We foresee an amazing 11th-straight 50-win season for the Mavericks, again on the shoulders of Dirk, J-Kidd and crew. And with the arrival of Tyson Chandler and the emergence of Roddy Beaubois (once he returns from a broken foot), Dallas will have some fresh blood. The Mavs may not have a ring, but they do have our respect.


So yeah, Miami was predicted to have the best record in basketball from the get go and to win the east by a considerable margin and only LA was the favorite over them. Not only that, they lost to a team that had one vote to win the conference.

JordansBulls
06-25-2011, 08:21 PM
Comparing a silly little thing like wins is "grasping at straws?" :laugh2:

Okay, buddy.

LeBron's youth only aids the argument for him because while Jordan's NBA statistics began after 3 years of coaching from the great Dean Smith, LeBron's numbers include a those of a teenager far from developed, matured, or polished, learning and growing up on the job. Obviously MJ came into the league more prepared as he was a young man with fine coaching vs LeBron who was a kid as raw as they come. Despite all of that, yes, LeBron has still won more up to this point. Period. And LeBron has had more individual success as well (2 MVPs to none, 7 All NBA selections to 5, 2 All Star Game MVPs to 1). So wins or individual accolades, LeBron has had more success. And we won't even talk about money and power because those heavily favor LeBron to this point as well.

Actually he hasn't because having 2 bronze medals in the process and losing 3 series with HCA doesn't help him. Not to mention he got outplayed by 2 of his teammates in the series and 2 guys on the other team

1) Jordan didnt have to leave his team to beat them

2) Jordan didnt have a player on the same level as him or outperform him on his own team


http://www.nba.com/heat/stats/2010/nba_finals_stats.html


http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/matchup/_/teams/mavericks-heat


Wade
26.5 PPG / 7.0 RPG / 5.2 APG / 1.5 SPG / 1.5 BPG / 2.5 TPG / 54.6% FG / 30.4% 3 PT FG / 69.4% FT


Bosh
18.5 PPG / 7.3 RPG / 1.0 APG / 0.33 SPG / 0.50 BPG / 2.17 TPG / 41.3% FG / 0.00% 3 PT FG / 77.8% FT


Lebron
17.8 PPG / 7.2 RPG / 6.8 APG / 1.67 SPG / 0.50 BPG / 4.0 TPG / 47.8% FG / 32.1% 3 PT FG / 60.0% FT


Lebron in 10 FINALS games. 19.5 ppg. 41.7% Shooting.


Basically 4 guys in the series averaged more ppg than Lebron. MJ was never outscored in any playoff series by anyone ever in his career.

Also you are forgetting Lebron is 1-3 in series with HCA vs 50+ win teams and MJ was 14-0 in series with HCA vs 50+ win teams and 24-0 all time with HCA.


And where were you before Lebron came to Miami? You never posted in the NBA Forums until Lebron came to Miami. Yet in still it is Wade who actually brought Miami it's only title, yet you show more love to Lebron and he has only been there one year.

AIRMAR72
06-25-2011, 08:23 PM
:laugh2: You have NO CLUE what you're talking about :laugh2:

No illegal defense when Mike played? WTH? There's no illegal defense now! Now you can play a zone. :facepalm:

3 point line 2 and a half feet back? :facepalm:

I pretty much stopped reading at that point, buddy. Good laugh though :laugh2:.

SOMEBODY saddle this donkey and get IT outta here dude i type FACTS go learn about history of the NBA before u leave the FARM

ldawg
06-25-2011, 08:32 PM
I am tired of all Lebron talk why don't he retire. give it a rest he is no MJ let him win three rings first as the best performer on his team and we can talk. As of right now he is just like any other great player in the nba if the refs don't let him run you over. It was Brown fault, Mo williams, Anderson, Shaq, Cleveland, the towel boy, the water boy everyone else faut but his own. Lebron is good lets go back to our problems work hard so we can buy Lebron shoes so he can be problem free.

I ask at season start was Lebron going to be a distraction for Miami? guess what, he was.

BigCityofDreams
06-25-2011, 09:24 PM
Nah, bro you're mistaken. Anyone who picked Miami in July doesn't know much about basketball and they were obviously proved wrong. Anyone who knows the game knew this team had a lot of holes and knew it would take some time. Your problem is you're talking about 5 different dates. No one was thinking Miami until the Finals started but by then they had already surpassed expectations.

WTF where were you when Lebron made the decision. The minute he said he was going to South Beach a majority of the public picked them to win it all. Hell Jeff Van Gundy was ahead of the pack and claimed the big 3 would break the 72-10 record.

They had already surpassed expectations???????? The expectation was championship or bust they said it themselves.

NBA_Starter
06-25-2011, 09:30 PM
I think he should have just said nothing and acted like it never happened.

OaklandsFinest
06-26-2011, 12:43 AM
Actually he hasn't because having 2 bronze medals in the process and losing 3 series with HCA doesn't help him. Not to mention he got outplayed by 2 of his teammates in the series and 2 guys on the other team

1) Jordan didnt have to leave his team to beat them

2) Jordan didnt have a player on the same level as him or outperform him on his own team


http://www.nba.com/heat/stats/2010/nba_finals_stats.html


http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/matchup/_/teams/mavericks-heat


Wade
26.5 PPG / 7.0 RPG / 5.2 APG / 1.5 SPG / 1.5 BPG / 2.5 TPG / 54.6% FG / 30.4% 3 PT FG / 69.4% FT


Bosh
18.5 PPG / 7.3 RPG / 1.0 APG / 0.33 SPG / 0.50 BPG / 2.17 TPG / 41.3% FG / 0.00% 3 PT FG / 77.8% FT


Lebron
17.8 PPG / 7.2 RPG / 6.8 APG / 1.67 SPG / 0.50 BPG / 4.0 TPG / 47.8% FG / 32.1% 3 PT FG / 60.0% FT


Lebron in 10 FINALS games. 19.5 ppg. 41.7% Shooting.


Basically 4 guys in the series averaged more ppg than Lebron. MJ was never outscored in any playoff series by anyone ever in his career.

Also you are forgetting Lebron is 1-3 in series with HCA vs 50+ win teams and MJ was 14-0 in series with HCA vs 50+ win teams and 24-0 all time with HCA.


And where were you before Lebron came to Miami? You never posted in the NBA Forums until Lebron came to Miami. Yet in still it is Wade who actually brought Miami it's only title, yet you show more love to Lebron and he has only been there one year.

Don't you think MJ was able to do what he did because of his supporting cast? Scottie Pippen was a cold dude, I think a lot of people forget they almost won a ring the season Jordan tried to play baseball and Pippen was almost MVP of the league.... I think you can say a lot about how good Wade is but hes never been a very serious MVP candidate because he's not on Lebron's level. I'm not trying to discount Jordan but he played on some good teams lets not act like he lead the 07 Cavs to the finals or anything....

Master Mind
06-26-2011, 01:17 AM
Don't you think MJ was able to do what he did because of his supporting cast? Scottie Pippen was a cold dude, I think a lot of people forget they almost won a ring the season Jordan tried to play baseball and Pippen was almost MVP of the league.... I think you can say a lot about how good Wade is but hes never been a very serious MVP candidate because he's not on Lebron's level. I'm not trying to discount Jordan but he played on some good teams lets not act like he lead the 07 Cavs to the finals or anything....

:eyebrow:

Jaji
06-26-2011, 04:31 AM
2010-2011 Season


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=SummerForecast10-NBAChamps

1. LA Lakers - 52 votes
2. Miami Heat - 34 votes
3. Orlando Magic - 5 votes
4. Boston Celtics - 1 vote
5. Oklahoma City - 1 vote




http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=SummerForecast10-EastChamps


1. Miami - 66 votes
2. Orlando - 16 votes
3. Boston - 10 votes
4. Chicago - 1 vote




http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=SummerForecast10-EastStandings

CONF TEAM W L PCT 10 W 10 L 10 PCT
1
Miami Heat 61 21 .744 47 35 .573
Meet the Miami Globetrotters -- with the rest of the East playing the part of the Washington Generals. Our panel says the Super Friends should run circles around the rest of the conference, except perhaps for Orlando. Then again, Boston eliminated both D-Wade and King James a year ago, so that's why they play the postseason

2
Orlando Magic 56 26 .683 59 23 .720
The Magic stumbled vs. the Celtics in the East finals, but this is much the same team that won five series the past two postseasons. Orlando might have some magical maneuvers left, perhaps shipping out Vince Carter and/or finding a way to get Chris Paul. Until then, given Miami's summer, Orlando reverts to dangerous sleeper status.

3
Boston Celtics 51 31 .622 50 32 .610
The C's showed the regular season means nothing to them, beating the Cavs and Magic despite starting on the road, and almost doing the same to the Lakers. So it matters little that Boston is projected to win "only" 51 games, as long as it can get KG, Perk and the other Men in Green healthy for April, May and June.

4
Chicago Bulls 50 32 .610 41 41 .500
The East's second tier welcomes a new member: Chicago. The Bulls swung and missed on LeBron, D-Wade and CB4, but they did get Carlos Boozer, a deeper bench and a new coach, Tom Thibodeau. That and the sharp ascent of Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah mean that Chicago's sellout crowds finally have something to see.

5
Atlanta Hawks 48 34 .585 53 29 .646
Amazingly, Atlanta has improved for five straight seasons, but our panel says the streak ends here. The Hawks are a solid team that seems stuck in no man's land, having failed to make the conference finals for 40 years -- since the Lakers swept them in the 1970 Western Division finals -- and that probably won't change in 2011.

6
Milwaukee Bucks 46 36 .561 46 36 .561
The East seems to have six sure playoff teams, and for the first time in years, Milwaukee is a member of that echelon. Our panel remains in a prove-it-to-me posture regarding whether the Bucks can crack the East's upper crust, but if Brandon Jennings progresses and Andrew Bogut's arm is OK, the pieces are in place.

7
Charlotte Bobcats 39 43 .476 44 38 .537
Have they peaked? Fresh off of its best season in franchise history, Charlotte's roster looks weaker, its division looks stronger, and Larry Brown -- naturally -- looks like he's itching to leave. Still, with two spots up for grabs, they'll likely earn back-to-back playoff appearances and, in this scenario, a first-round rematch with the Magic.

8
New York Knicks 37 45 .451 29 53 .354
Knicks in the playoffs! But NY fans had more than an eight-game improvement in mind when the team entered the offseason with the ability to sign two superstars. The Amare addition should help, and Mike D'Antoni finally gets some horses to run his system, but the future remains murky. Still, Spike Lee has something to cheer about.




http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=SummerForecast10-WestStandings - considering the Hornets were to only be 38-44, and the big jump they have made because of CP3, he is MVP

The Heat were to dominant the East and they aren't even in 1st place and they have pretty much had their starting lineup in tact all year.


Forecast: 2010-11 Western Conference Standings
CONF TEAM W L PCT 10 W 10 L 10 PCT
1
Los Angeles Lakers 58 24 .707 57 25 .695
The heavyweight champs have given us a True Hollywood Story of classic characters: the loner hero, the European intellectual, the wise old cap'n, the Queensbridge kid, the loopy lefty, the young star on the make, the eccentric owner and his family, and the Zen Master. Oh yeah, they're pretty good at basketball, too.

2
*Oklahoma City Thunder 52 30 .634 50 32 .610
Is this the same team that stood 1-16 just 20 months ago? Yes, and it's the same team that put a serious scare in the champs in Round 1. In what could be a wild Western scramble for second, our panel gives the Thunder 0.21 wins more than the Mavs, meaning a potential West finals bid for the Durant-Westbrook-Green team.

3
*Dallas Mavericks 52 30 .634 55 27 .671
We foresee an amazing 11th-straight 50-win season for the Mavericks, again on the shoulders of Dirk, J-Kidd and crew. And with the arrival of Tyson Chandler and the emergence of Roddy Beaubois (once he returns from a broken foot), Dallas will have some fresh blood. The Mavs may not have a ring, but they do have our respect.


So yeah, Miami was predicted to have the best record in basketball from the get go and to win the east by a considerable margin and only LA was the favorite over them. Not only that, they lost to a team that had one vote to win the conference.

:facepalm:

All your links add up to Miami losing in the Finals, so that argument at best means they lived up to expectations. What a waste of bandwidth.

Jaji
06-26-2011, 04:41 AM
SOMEBODY saddle this donkey and get IT outta here dude i type FACTS go learn about history of the NBA before u leave the FARM

You can't be serious. Wow.

In 2001, the NBA got rid of illegal defense which was basically any type of zone defense, resulting in a warning the first time and a technical foul the second time and beyond. Since 2001, teams are allowed to play zone but no defender may stay in the lane for more than 3 seconds unless they are guarding someone. This is called defensive 3 seconds, resulting in a technical foul each time it is called.

Read up guy... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_three-second_violation


And as far as the 3 point line :laugh:

The NBA shortened the 3 point line for three years from the 94-95 season to the 96-97 season (all of which MJ played in :laugh2:). They moved it back to 23'-9" for the 97-98 season and beyond.

Here ya go, sport, homework assignment #2... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_field_goal

And after rereading your original post... Grant Hill > LeBron? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Jaji
06-26-2011, 04:44 AM
:eyebrow:

He's not.

Jaji
06-26-2011, 05:07 AM
WTF where were you when Lebron made the decision. The minute he said he was going to South Beach a majority of the public picked them to win it all. Hell Jeff Van Gundy was ahead of the pack and claimed the big 3 would break the 72-10 record.

They had already surpassed expectations???????? The expectation was championship or bust they said it themselves.

I said Jeff Van Gundy already. Who else? I've asked the question "who" 10 times now and so far the only name thrown back at me is the 1 name I said JFG and we all kinda laughed because he was being a little ridiculous as JVG tends to do sometimes.

Only people who were picking Miami were bandwagoners who know nothing of the sport. Anyone who knows anything about basketball could see this team had some serious deficiencies.

I feel sorry for the haters because you won the battle but the war has another 8-10 years :laugh2:. How long do you think the NBA can keep the O'Brien out of his hands? MJ broke finally broke through at 28. Lebron is only 26, 2 years from 28 and look what he's already accomplished. Far more than MJ did. On and off the court. That's not being a homer, that's a stone cold fact. More wins (team), more MVPs (individual), more trips to the Finals (team), more All NBA selections (individual), more money (individual) than young Jordan had too. Much more power. Not to mention he'll most likely finish with more points than Jordan, more rebounds, more assists, more blocks, more steals, more triple doubles, more double doubles, :yawn:, the list goes on. And conceivably more titles. At age 26 Jordan had never even been to the Finals and finished with 6. LeBron has already shown he can get a team at least that far at a tender age. The Heat will certainly be favorites to win it this year after a year to gel and see which pieces fit where, and if they are able to live up to expectations (as JordansBulls so perfectly illustrated for us that they did just that this year ;)), then LeBron will have 1 ring at 27 while Jordan had zero at 27. Then how could it be unfathomable that he couldn't finish with more rings than MJ? I mean this is what? 1st grade math here? Maybe 2nd?

Man I don't know if its, denial, blindness, or just pure hate that drives some of you? We're talking about facts and very possible future outcomes based on those facts. Facts people. Not "MJ is the greatest because he''s MJ and there will never be another MJ and its blasphemous to think anyone could ever compare to MJ and every player, no mater who he is and what position he plays, he must be compared to MJ simply to show that he doesn't measure up to MJ and how do we determine that said player doesn't measure up to MJ? Because he's MJ." Yeah, great logic there, fellas :rolleyes:.

Jaji
06-26-2011, 05:12 AM
Actually he hasn't because having 2 bronze medals in the process and losing 3 series with HCA doesn't help him. Not to mention he got outplayed by 2 of his teammates in the series and 2 guys on the other team

1) Jordan didnt have to leave his team to beat them

2) Jordan didnt have a player on the same level as him or outperform him on his own team


http://www.nba.com/heat/stats/2010/nba_finals_stats.html


http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/matchup/_/teams/mavericks-heat


Wade
26.5 PPG / 7.0 RPG / 5.2 APG / 1.5 SPG / 1.5 BPG / 2.5 TPG / 54.6% FG / 30.4% 3 PT FG / 69.4% FT


Bosh
18.5 PPG / 7.3 RPG / 1.0 APG / 0.33 SPG / 0.50 BPG / 2.17 TPG / 41.3% FG / 0.00% 3 PT FG / 77.8% FT


Lebron
17.8 PPG / 7.2 RPG / 6.8 APG / 1.67 SPG / 0.50 BPG / 4.0 TPG / 47.8% FG / 32.1% 3 PT FG / 60.0% FT


Lebron in 10 FINALS games. 19.5 ppg. 41.7% Shooting.


Basically 4 guys in the series averaged more ppg than Lebron. MJ was never outscored in any playoff series by anyone ever in his career.

Also you are forgetting Lebron is 1-3 in series with HCA vs 50+ win teams and MJ was 14-0 in series with HCA vs 50+ win teams and 24-0 all time with HCA.


And where were you before Lebron came to Miami? You never posted in the NBA Forums until Lebron came to Miami. Yet in still it is Wade who actually brought Miami it's only title, yet you show more love to Lebron and he has only been there one year.

LeBron was playing in the Finals at the same age Jordan was getting swept in the 1st round. :yawn:

10 Finals games >>>>>>>>>> 0 Finals games.

19.5 ppg >>>>>>>>>>> 0 ppg

venom518
06-26-2011, 07:06 AM
I think Pippen is a punk for retracting his statement. If that's your opinion stick to it. Who cares what other people think. The fact of the matter is that Jordan being the best ever is not a fact. It's an opinion. There are many people that don't think Jordan is the best. So for Pippen to retract what he said cause he caught flak from people is a punk move in my book. Stick to your guns Scottie.

JordansBulls
06-26-2011, 08:21 AM
LeBron was playing in the Finals at the same age Jordan was getting swept in the 1st round. :yawn:

10 Finals games >>>>>>>>>> 0 Finals games.

19.5 ppg >>>>>>>>>>> 0 ppg

Stuff in life doesn't work off age, unless it is a drinking age. Just because Lebron couldn't cut it doesn't mean anything.

I guess you also believe Derrick Rose at age 22 is the GOAT since he is the youngest MVP winner ever?
:rolleyes:

Lebron got outscored by 4 players in the series. 4 players. Jordan never got outscored by any player ever in any playoff series. Jordan never averaged less than 26.6 ppg against anyone.
Jason Terry outplayed Lebron.

Lebron is 1-3 in series with HCA against teams that were 50+ wins. Lebron has 2 bronze medals with superstar talent on the teams. Lebron had 2 other allstars and lost to a team that had only 1 star player.


If you want to do that then Lebron has always played with Proven winners. He had Ben Wallace in 2009 who won a title as the man. He had Shaq in 2010 who won 3 titles as the man, had 3 finals mvp's and 1 league mvp and then Wade in 2011 who won a title as the man. Lebron never won anything as the man. He never brought a franchise a title and he will never bring a team that hasn't won anything a title as he left.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/LebronRingChaser.jpg


http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_james_100709.html



Going to Miami, it isn’t going to be LeBron’s team. It is Wade’s team because he’s been there and has won a championship there. So the obvious point was that this would not be LeBron’s championship if he gets one or more, that he needed to go get help from a champion and another star.

Jaji
06-26-2011, 09:23 AM
So you believe one series defines an entire career? Hmmm okay.

BigCityofDreams
06-26-2011, 11:11 AM
I said Jeff Van Gundy already. Who else? I've asked the question "who" 10 times now and so far the only name thrown back at me is the 1 name I said JFG and we all kinda laughed because he was being a little ridiculous as JVG tends to do sometimes.

Only people who were picking Miami were bandwagoners who know nothing of the sport. Anyone who knows anything about basketball could see this team had some serious deficiencies.

I feel sorry for the haters because you won the battle but the war has another 8-10 years :laugh2:. How long do you think the NBA can keep the O'Brien out of his hands? MJ broke finally broke through at 28. Lebron is only 26, 2 years from 28 and look what he's already accomplished. Far more than MJ did. On and off the court. That's not being a homer, that's a stone cold fact. More wins (team), more MVPs (individual), more trips to the Finals (team), more All NBA selections (individual), more money (individual) than young Jordan had too. Much more power. Not to mention he'll most likely finish with more points than Jordan, more rebounds, more assists, more blocks, more steals, more triple doubles, more double doubles, :yawn:, the list goes on. And conceivably more titles. At age 26 Jordan had never even been to the Finals and finished with 6. LeBron has already shown he can get a team at least that far at a tender age. The Heat will certainly be favorites to win it this year after a year to gel and see which pieces fit where, and if they are able to live up to expectations (as JordansBulls so perfectly illustrated for us that they did just that this year ;)), then LeBron will have 1 ring at 27 while Jordan had zero at 27. Then how could it be unfathomable that he couldn't finish with more rings than MJ? I mean this is what? 1st grade math here? Maybe 2nd?

Man I don't know if its, denial, blindness, or just pure hate that drives some of you? We're talking about facts and very possible future outcomes based on those facts. Facts people. Not "MJ is the greatest because he''s MJ and there will never be another MJ and its blasphemous to think anyone could ever compare to MJ and every player, no mater who he is and what position he plays, he must be compared to MJ simply to show that he doesn't measure up to MJ and how do we determine that said player doesn't measure up to MJ? Because he's MJ." Yeah, great logic there, fellas :rolleyes:.


The team had major deficiencies but yet they made it all the way to the Finals. They got past the league MVP and the last Eastern team to win a ring but they were flawed???? How does that work exactly! You can try to spin it anyway you want but the Miami Heat failed to live up to expectations this yr. No one in the organization was excited to make it to the semis or conference finals the goal was to win it all and the big 3 didn't do it.

He could pass MJ in rings but can he at least get one ring first before we start predicting how many he will have. Hell ppl were giving him the 2011 Championship and the Finals MVP going into the match-up against the Mavs. Right now Prince James hasn't won a series in the Finals and is 2-8.

BigCityofDreams
06-26-2011, 11:16 AM
So you believe one series defines an entire career? Hmmm okay.

Of course not but he has come up short in the Finals. Lebron said he's about championships so if he doesn't win he has to get criticized.

Jaji
06-26-2011, 11:43 AM
The team had major deficiencies but yet they made it all the way to the Finals. They got past the league MVP and the last Eastern team to win a ring but they were flawed???? How does that work exactly! You can try to spin it anyway you want but the Miami Heat failed to live up to expectations this yr. No one in the organization was excited to make it to the semis or conference finals the goal was to win it all and the big 3 didn't do it.

He could pass MJ in rings but can he at least get one ring first before we start predicting how many he will have. Hell ppl were giving him the 2011 Championship and the Finals MVP going into the match-up against the Mavs. Right now Prince James hasn't won a series in the Finals and is 2-8.

How could they be flawed? You didn't see any flaws when they lost the Finals? Even before that when they were getting hammered on the glass against Chicago? Except for the late emergence of Mario Chalmers, they virtually got nothing from the 1 and 5 positions all year. So how does it work that they still got to the Finals? They have LeBron, D Wade and Bosh. Come on guy, this is common sense. You're asking simple questions with obvious answers.

You can talk about his 2-8 Finals record but at the same age MJ had never gotten to the Finals. How many times did Jordan's Bulls sneak into the playoffs with sub .500 records? How many times did Jordan's Bulls get swept out of the 1st round? Come on guy, LeBron is way ahead of the curve and that's a fact, not an opinion.

BigCityofDreams
06-26-2011, 11:54 AM
How could they be flawed? You didn't see any flaws when they lost the Finals? Even before that when they were getting hammered on the glass against Chicago? Except for the late emergence of Mario Chalmers, they virtually got nothing from the 1 and 5 positions all year. So how does it work that they still got to the Finals? They have LeBron, D Wade and Bosh. Come on guy, this is common sense. You're asking simple questions with obvious answers.

You can talk about his 2-8 Finals record but at the same age MJ had never gotten to the Finals. How many times did Jordan's Bulls sneak into the playoffs with sub .500 records? How many times did Jordan's Bulls get swept out of the 1st round? Come on guy, LeBron is way ahead of the curve and that's a fact, not an opinion.

But once Jordan got to the Finals he won. He never lost a series in the Finals. Lebron is suppose to be the King right. The team was favored during the pre season and became the odds on favorite when the Lakers got bounced yet he came up short and played terrible in the 4th quarter. When they were up 2-1 on the Mavs a majority of the public and experts thought it was over. You're only saying they exceeded expectations because they lost. If they won it would have been this team accomplished their goal.

Way ahead of the curve??????? Lebron said he's about business(winning rings) but right now he hasn't won a championship and disappeared in the biggest series he has ever played in.

Jaji
06-26-2011, 12:02 PM
But once Jordan got to the Finals he won. He never lost a series in the Finals. Lebron is suppose to be the King right. The team was favored during the pre season and became the odds on favorite when the Lakers got bounced yet he came up short and played terrible in the 4th quarter. When they were up 2-1 on the Mavs a majority of the public and experts thought it was over. You're only saying they exceeded expectations because they lost. If they won it would have been this team accomplished their goal.

Way ahead of the curve??????? Lebron said he's about business(winning rings) but right now he hasn't won a championship and disappeared in the biggest series he has ever played in.

When MJ was LeBron's age he only won 3 playoff series altogether, never making it to the Finals. LeBron has won 11 series and been to the Finals twice. Arguing this is like arguing gravity. You can argue all you want but you'll still be wrong.

BigCityofDreams
06-26-2011, 12:10 PM
When MJ was LeBron's age he only won 3 playoff series altogether, never making it to the Finals. LeBron has won 11 series and been to the Finals twice. Arguing this is like arguing gravity. You can argue all you want but you'll still be wrong.


Maybe you're right it is pointless. Instead I should be on your side and argue that the Heat exceeded expectations although the big 3 said anything less than a championship is a failure.

Raoul Duke
06-26-2011, 12:16 PM
Jaji has said, in this same thread, that The Heat played above their potential when they beat Boston and Chicago and then played beneath their potential in losing to Dallas. So, I dunno. I guess if you're a Heat fan, or just a Lebron fan, then you get to adjust expectations on the fly so as to never be disappointed, and I must admit I'm a little jelous of that.

JordansBulls
06-26-2011, 12:18 PM
When MJ was LeBron's age he only won 3 playoff series altogether, never making it to the Finals. LeBron has won 11 series and been to the Finals twice. Arguing this is like arguing gravity. You can argue all you want but you'll still be wrong.

Lebron never won and will always have someone more proven then him if he wins a title as Wade got it done already. Guess Wade at 24, 25, 26 is better than Lebron he won as the man. Guess Rose at 22 is better than Wilt and Kareem since he won MVP and more playoff series. Yeah let's compare by age. Lebron has 2 bronze medals as well while Rose got gold medal on his first try. MJ in the finals 33.6 ppg on 48% fg while Lebron 19.5 ppg on 41% fg with 2 other stars on the team and outscored him and lost 3 series already with HCA while MJ was undefeated with HCA.

JJ_JKidd
06-26-2011, 01:19 PM
Geez, I havent bashed Lebron in a while.. How about, MJ has around a ton of moves, killer instinct, takeover mentality, among others whilst LeLOL has none of it. How come then that Pippen initially said that Lebron is gonna be better?

Bunta
06-26-2011, 01:23 PM
I had no idae you could take to exact opposite statements out of context.

Jaji
06-26-2011, 02:20 PM
Lebron never won and will always have someone more proven then him if he wins a title as Wade got it done already. Guess Wade at 24, 25, 26 is better than Lebron he won as the man. Guess Rose at 22 is better than Wilt and Kareem since he won MVP and more playoff series. Yeah let's compare by age. Lebron has 2 bronze medals as well while Rose got gold medal on his first try. MJ in the finals 33.6 ppg on 48% fg while Lebron 19.5 ppg on 41% fg with 2 other stars on the team and outscored him and lost 3 series already with HCA while MJ was undefeated with HCA.

:laugh2: / :pity:

That is all I'm going to bother responding with at this point. You keep comparing young LeBron to seasoned vet Mike. When Mike was LeBron's age he never came close to the Finals.

ne3xchamps
06-26-2011, 02:58 PM
Pippen is such a ****ing idiot. He is just embarrassed he made such a dumb *** comment. Oh and MJ probably ***** slapped him. :laugh2:

Jewelz0376
06-26-2011, 03:17 PM
Pippen is such a ****ing idiot. He is just embarrassed he made such a dumb *** comment. Oh and MJ probably ***** slapped him. :laugh2:

:laugh:

x2... You know MJ probably cussed him out

Bos_Sports4Life
06-26-2011, 07:31 PM
MJ KILLS him in basically EVERY advanced stat

MJ KILLS him in the mental aspect by FAR

MJ had the killer instinct, Lebron? Not even close

MJ ALWAYS came up big in big moment, Lebron does not

I don't remember MJ EVER making excuses on poor play, Lebron does

THERE'S NO COMPARISON


There's SEVERAL players who are ahead of him, and most he won't ever catch..


- MJ

- Russell

- Hakeem

- Kobe

- Kareem

- Bird

- Magic

- Shaq

- Duncan

- Dr. J

- Mosses Malone

- Wilt

- West

ect

E.O.21
06-26-2011, 07:41 PM
A kid who's the best in a sport that is light years more difficult than basketball.

Who's Koston?

Jimmy Grecs> Eric Koston

You know whats ironic about this. Ronaldo is basically the LeBron James of soccer. Great players but choke in big time moments lol

magicman333
06-26-2011, 07:58 PM
MJ still would have been better even if lebron won a championship.

Jaji
06-26-2011, 10:02 PM
MJ KILLS him in basically EVERY advanced stat

MJ KILLS him in the mental aspect by FAR

MJ had the killer instinct, Lebron? Not even close

MJ ALWAYS came up big in big moment, Lebron does not

I don't remember MJ EVER making excuses on poor play, Lebron does

THERE'S NO COMPARISON


There's SEVERAL players who are ahead of him, and most he won't ever catch..


- MJ

- Russell

- Hakeem

- Kobe

- Kareem

- Bird

- Magic

- Shaq

- Duncan

- Dr. J

- Mosses Malone

- Wilt

- West

ect

You're talking about Jordan age 28 and up. Jordan used to get swept out of the first round in his younger days. When Jordan was 26 he only had 3 playoff series wins total and no Finals appearances (how can you "rise to the moment" when you're not even there? :confused:) compared to LeBron's 11 plus 2 trips to the Finals. :rolleyes:

Bos_Sports4Life
06-26-2011, 10:23 PM
You're talking about Jordan age 28 and up. Jordan used to get swept out of the first round in his younger days. When Jordan was 26 he only had 3 playoff series wins total and no Finals appearances (how can you "rise to the moment" when you're not even there? :confused:) compared to LeBron's 11 plus 2 trips to the Finals. :rolleyes:


lol...your realllllly reaching..


MJ kills lebron in everything and his accolades/accomplishments/advanced stats are just amazing and WONT be surpassed by lebron


- 10 Scoring titles, Also leads #1 league history in ppg

- 9x hes led the league in total win shares, Hes #1 all time in win shares per 48

- All time leader in usg %

- All time leader in PER

Also, that goes along with 6 nba titles (winning nba finals each and every time)


Lebron should work on passing guys like larry bird/magic johnson before he worries about passing guys like mj/Russell as far as greatness goes. Becaus he has a ways too go for even that too happen as just last yr, his teammates were out performing him...

And im not saying all of this becaus i hate lebron...I Hate guys like derek jeter, kobe ect...but i know those guys know how too play on the big stage

hard_candy
06-26-2011, 10:46 PM
Shows you why Pip is flat broke.

BigCityofDreams
06-26-2011, 10:51 PM
^^^That's messed up

John Walls Era
06-26-2011, 11:08 PM
Everyone knows that Pippen was bitter with MJ at the end of his career. He meant the Lebron comment and is only back pedaling because he knows it was foolish.

king4day
06-27-2011, 12:18 AM
It's hard to ever put Lebron on the level of Jordan, not because it doesn't or won't ever reach what MJ can do talentwise or mentally. But because now he plays with two big time allstars. If Jordan played with Hakeem during his title runs, it woulda been harder to say he was the best ever cuz he did it with so much talent.

Kobe is the closest player to be compared to Jordan to this point

Jaji
06-27-2011, 08:28 AM
lol...your realllllly reaching..


MJ kills lebron in everything and his accolades/accomplishments/advanced stats are just amazing and WONT be surpassed by lebron


- 10 Scoring titles, Also leads #1 league history in ppg

- 9x hes led the league in total win shares, Hes #1 all time in win shares per 48

- All time leader in usg %

- All time leader in PER

Also, that goes along with 6 nba titles (winning nba finals each and every time)


Lebron should work on passing guys like larry bird/magic johnson before he worries about passing guys like mj/Russell as far as greatness goes. Becaus he has a ways too go for even that too happen as just last yr, his teammates were out performing him...

And im not saying all of this becaus i hate lebron...I Hate guys like derek jeter, kobe ect...but i know those guys know how too play on the big stage

You're talking about a full career vs half a career. LeBron's first half was more impressive as he enjoyed much more success, on and off the court. And he was more successful with less. That's a fact. Now we'll see what happens with the 2nd half of his career but he is ahead of the curve for sure. Fact.

Rentzias
06-27-2011, 10:38 AM
And as far as the East being a powerhouse back then, check your facts. The Bulls made the playoffs at 30-52 one year. That's far worse than the recent "weak East" has been with sub .500 teams getting in. 30-52? Three times MJ's Bulls made it to the playoffs with a sub .500 record. Meanwhile, LeBron missed the playoffs his 1st 2 years (the years MJ spent in college). So since even that time, LeBron has accomplished a lot more in terms of winning. So your claim MJ did more to help his team win is false because if he did more to help his team win he would have won more. LeBron dominated the regular season in Cleveland before losing to the conference champion every year in the playoffs. Meanwhile, the Bulls annually snuck into the playoffs for years only to get waxed in the 1st round every time. So who was helping their team win more? 3 series wins and no conference titles to 11 series wins and 2 conference titles at the same age (in other words, with the same ammount of time left in their careers to accomplish whatever).
But rookie Jordan also played in two playoffs his first two years, while rookie LBJ played in zero playoffs. The Bulls then got "waxed" by an all-time great Celtics team that was hitting stride in a four-consecutive-season run in the Finals, then the Pistons who were in a three-consecutive-season Finals run. Bron was beating the likes of the non-championship version Detroit Pistons, a playoff Wizards team that had lost Arenas and Butler, and the VC, Richard Jefferson, J. Kidd big three in New Jersey to get to the Finals.
Also, I would re-try that link again to the ESPN site, because it's got some good information for you.

Jaji
06-27-2011, 06:30 PM
But rookie Jordan also played in two playoffs his first two years, while rookie LBJ played in zero playoffs. The Bulls then got "waxed" by an all-time great Celtics team that was hitting stride in a four-consecutive-season run in the Finals, then the Pistons who were in a three-consecutive-season Finals run. Bron was beating the likes of the non-championship version Detroit Pistons, a playoff Wizards team that had lost Arenas and Butler, and the VC, Richard Jefferson, J. Kidd big three in New Jersey to get to the Finals.
Also, I would re-try that link again to the ESPN site, because it's got some good information for you.

Rookie Jordan was 21, much more mature and had 3 years of HOF coaching from Dean Smith. Rookie LeBron was a 19 year old kid straight out of HS and his coach was his friend's dad. Not only that, Jordan's Bulls made the playoffs at 38-44. His 2nd year they made the playoffs with a 30-52 record (although MJ missed most that year, 30-52? Playoffs? :eyebrow:). His 3rd year they were 40-42. MJ was 24 by the time he experienced a winning record, let alone won a single playoff series. LeBron was in the Finals at age 22.

nickdymez
06-27-2011, 07:17 PM
I think what people need to understand is how young LeBron James is. When you think about that logically you realize he has accomplished way more than MJ did by the same age. On and off the court, either way, there's no comparison. Let's investigate shall we.....

At age 26, Michael Jordan had 1 league MVP couple with a DPOY in the same season and a total of three playoff series wins. At the same age, LeBron has 2 MVPs, 11 series wins and has been to the Finals twice. So to anyone who says "Michael Jordan would have never scored 8 points in a Finals game,"... well that's because MJ was never in the Finals that young. His line for or the night would have been 0-0 for zero points because his team didn't qualify for the championship round at that point in his career. In other words: you can't score if your team's not playing.

For their careers MJ averaged 30.1 ppg and 5.3 assists. LeBron is currently at 27.7 with 7 assists. Using the hockey formula for points (goals or in this case points plus assists or in this case assists x2 for each basket) LeBron's 41.7 point responsibility is greater than the 40.7 MJ was responsible for. So MJ scored more, but LeBron has been responsible for more points per game.

Off the court LeBron is already (and has been for a while) a global icon. Jordan's brand didn't really take off until the 90's once the Bulls started winning titles. LeBron has been in your face since High School. He has way more power and influence than Jordan had at the same age. Again, its not even comparable. Jordan took an executive job with the Wizards, tried to build a team to come back and play with. What a pitiful and embarrassing disaster that turned out to be. Meanwhile, Baby Bron is building title contenders as he enters his prime. Wow. And his influence is felt throughout the league. Denver traded Melo because of the "LeBron effect." CP3? What's gonna happen with him? Ask LeBron, isn't he is agent or something? :laugh2:

For those "old enough to have seen MJ play" (and I was) people, maybe you just idolized MJ as a youngin and now that you're older you can't come to grips that this young cat, younger than you is doing incredible things at a ridiculous rate.

Hate him all you want, but he's the most gifted player to ever play the game. And he's accomplished more than the great MJ did at the same age. Not to mention he is in prime position to win a whole lot of titles.

The hate is ridiculous because all this man did was switch teams. He did it on TV so what? Isn't that just one big *** tweet? He didn't tell the Cavs so what? Just like the Cavs didn't tell Irving he was their pick? Either way, what does it matter? He teamed up with 2 All Stars so what? Don't you need multiple All Stars to win a title? 95% of the time you do. He showed selflessness in taking less money and agreeing to share the spotlight. Those are commendable acts. But instead he's ridiculed? Why? Because he's changing the game? Because he's doing things his way and not they way you think he should? LeBron was chastised for choosing St. Vincent St. Mary over Buchtel in Akron Ohio too. Why the eff would he go to that school? How'd that work out for him? Unis made by adidas, corporate sponsors, nationally televised games, $100 million sneaker contract (waaaaayyyyy more than young MJ lol). But you should really get over the hate because his day as a champion is surely coming and he'll probably be a younger champion than MJ too. Hard facts to face but hey, life goes on.

Your so in love with Lebron James is sickening. I hope your a woman for real..

Jaji
06-28-2011, 12:39 PM
Your so in love with Lebron James is sickening. I hope your a woman for real..

Wow 7 paragraphs of stone cold fact and that's your response? In other words: "There is really no way possible for me to disprove what you just said so I'll revert back to 2nd grade and try to insult you. I can't prove you wrong but maybe I can hurt your feelings."

:laugh:

Rentzias
06-28-2011, 02:48 PM
Rookie Jordan was 21, much more mature and had 3 years of HOF coaching from Dean Smith. Rookie LeBron was a 19 year old kid straight out of HS and his coach was his friend's dad.

MJ was 24 by the time he experienced a winning record, let alone won a single playoff series. LeBron was in the Finals at age 22.
In the first part, you acknowledge that Jordan is older literally, then you subsequently penalize him for age, even though they both made "winning" progress within the same time frame.
You also did not acknowledge the differing levels of competition in the Eastern Conference that each player had to face; you also acknowledge that Jordan missed basically his entire 2nd year (and returned to avg 43 ppg in the playoffs), but don't give Jordan that year as a discount in your time factoring. Who's to say what experience he would've gained at that point, and what chemistry the team would've developed leading into the playoffs? By no means does that mean they beat the Celtics, you are selectively looking at information to penalize Jordan and reward LeBron.

JordansBulls
06-28-2011, 02:52 PM
Not to mention Lebron is 1-3 in series with HCA vs teams that won 50+ games while MJ was 14-0.

PhillyFaninLA
06-28-2011, 03:06 PM
Not to mention Lebron is 1-3 in series with HCA vs teams that won 50+ games while MJ was 14-0.

And on Tuesdays in May when guarded by a guy with a J in his middle name has never scored more then 50 or he has never dunked on Dwight Howard while eating a stromboli.

My point is your stats are meaningless....because Lebron never had Pippen, Kerr, Paxton, Rodman, Armstrong, some other great role players and Phil Jackson. MJ had maybe the greatest supporting casts of all time when he was winning titles, he also had one of the great coaches of all time.

When using stats like you are using you are saying that all other players around the one guy are meaningless and have no impact on who wins, and the coach is meaningless as well because this league only really should be a one on one league because 1 - 3 for one player would be 1 - 3 in all situations and 14 - 0 would always be 14 - 0.

Lebron didn't go to the Bulls and he beat you in the playoffs get over it.

JordansBulls
06-28-2011, 03:11 PM
And on Tuesdays in May when guarded by a guy with a J in his middle name has never scored more then 50 or he has never dunked on Dwight Howard while eating a stromboli.

My point is your stats are meaningless....because Lebron never had Pippen, Kerr, Paxton, Rodman, Armstrong, some other great role players and Phil Jackson. MJ had maybe the greatest supporting casts of all time when he was winning titles, he also had one of the great coaches of all time.

When using stats like you are using you are saying that all other players around the one guy are meaningless and have no impact on who wins, and the coach is meaningless as well because this league only really should be a one on one league because 1 - 3 for one player would be 1 - 3 in all situations and 14 - 0 would always be 14 - 0.

Lebron didn't go to the Bulls and he beat you in the playoffs get over it.

Jordan did not have the best cast. Jordan never had a player on his team outscore him, have a higher PER nor Win Shares than him on the Bulls. No other top 20 player all time can say that.

And yes HCA does matter. Here are the records of players in Series with HCA.



HCA(50+)/non-50 Road(50+)/non-50
Jordan: 14-0 / 10-0 6-7 / 0-0
Russell: 10-0 / 12-1 5-1 / 0-0
Shaq: 11-2 / 12-2 8-6 / 0-0
Magic: 9-2 / 20-1 3-4 / 0-0
Duncan: 13-4 / 8-0 5-4 / 0-0
Jabbar: 11-3 / 23-2 2-6 / 0-1
Olajuwon: 4-0 / 5-2 7-8 / 1-1
Bird: 10-6 / 14-1 0-4 / 0-0
Wilt: 4-3 / 9-2 1-7 / 2-0
Tmac: 0-2 / 0-0 0-3 / 0-1
Kobe: 18-2 / 6-0 5-5 / 0-0
Lebron: 1-3/ 8-0 1-3 / 0-0
Wade: 1-2/ 6-0 2-4 / 0-0



Jordan's teams had HCA in 24 playoff series throughout his career,
and they were 24-0 in all of them. Thats not an achievement? His teams were the favorites 24 times, and never once did they get upset.
You can't say that for pretty much any other superstar that has played in that many series.

Does that make him the automatic GOAT?
No, of course not cause there are other things to take into consideration, but IMO it definitely makes his case stronger.

nickdymez
06-28-2011, 03:12 PM
Wow 7 paragraphs of stone cold fact and that's your response? In other words: "There is really no way possible for me to disprove what you just said so I'll revert back to 2nd grade and try to insult you. I can't prove you wrong but maybe I can hurt your feelings."

:laugh:

No im not trying to hurt your feelings... One fact matters... He choked in the finals... He's won nothing and has had 2 chances to win a ring... Thats what matters.. Thats a fact... Fact is, he puts up insane numbers... Fact is, those numbers mean nothing because he cant get it done.. Fact, he has a top 3 player on his team. Fact, he lost in the finals with home court advantage... I like winners, like Kobe Bryant, Dirk, WADE, shaq, etc.... Not hyped up king.... Keep making excuses for his shortcomings all you want to, fact is he's won NOTHING!.. Fact

nickdymez
06-28-2011, 03:14 PM
Jordan did not have the best cast. Jordan never had a player on his team outscore him, have a higher PER nor Win Shares than him on the Bulls. No other top 20 player all time can say that.

And yes HCA does matter. Here are the records of players in Series with HCA.



HCA(50+)/non-50 Road(50+)/non-50
Jordan: 14-0 / 10-0 6-7 / 0-0
Russell: 10-0 / 12-1 5-1 / 0-0
Shaq: 11-2 / 12-2 8-6 / 0-0
Magic: 9-2 / 20-1 3-4 / 0-0
Duncan: 13-4 / 8-0 5-4 / 0-0
Jabbar: 11-3 / 23-2 2-6 / 0-1
Olajuwon: 4-0 / 5-2 7-8 / 1-1
Bird: 10-6 / 14-1 0-4 / 0-0
Wilt: 4-3 / 9-2 1-7 / 2-0
Tmac: 0-2 / 0-0 0-3 / 0-1
Kobe: 18-2 / 6-0 5-5 / 0-0
Lebron: 1-3/ 8-0 1-3 / 0-0
Wade: 1-2/ 6-0 2-4 / 0-0



Jordan's teams had HCA in 24 playoff series throughout his career,
and they were 24-0 in all of them. Thats not an achievement? His teams were the favorites 24 times, and never once did they get upset.
You can't say that for pretty much any other superstar that has played in that many series.

Does that make him the automatic GOAT?
No, of course not cause there are other things to take into consideration, but IMO it definitely makes his case stronger.

Kobe 18-2 with HCA = Fact....