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JordansBulls
06-24-2011, 10:20 PM
Where does Jason Kidd rank among all time PG's?

I've heard a few people say top 3 all time among PG's. Not sure, want to get an idea from you guys.

asandhu23
06-24-2011, 10:28 PM
number 2. this has already been discussed in my thread after Mavs beat LeBron and his goons.

MFFL==FML
06-24-2011, 10:40 PM
Top 3 without a doubt. Anyone who has Payton in their top 5 should be shot.

KingOf215
06-24-2011, 11:03 PM
Some idiots still rank Payton above Kidd. What a joke.

Illinirob83
06-24-2011, 11:11 PM
Magic
Robertson
Thomas

then it is a free for all after those three IMO. If people want to rank him 4th I wouldn't argue.

Havoc Wreaker
06-24-2011, 11:14 PM
Jason.Frederick.Kidd

Jewelz0376
06-24-2011, 11:18 PM
magic
robertson
thomas
stockton
Kidd
Frazier right after Kidd

valade16
06-24-2011, 11:20 PM
magic
robertson
thomas
stockton
Kidd
Frazier right after Kidd

Mighty fine list here. Agree.

MVPKOBE43
06-24-2011, 11:22 PM
kidd is garbage

Raoul Duke
06-24-2011, 11:23 PM
magic
robertson
thomas
stockton
Kidd
Frazier right after Kidd

Thats as good a list as any. I'd probably add in Payton and the caveat that after Magic at number 1, my list is in no particular order.

Darrell Russell
06-24-2011, 11:24 PM
kidd is garbage

lol

MVPKOBE43
06-24-2011, 11:26 PM
magic
robertson
thomas
stockton
cousy
frazier
nash
rondo
payton
fisher
j. wall
s. curry
kidd

Jewelz0376
06-24-2011, 11:27 PM
magic
robertson
thomas
stockton
cousy
frazier
nash
rondo
payton
fisher
j. wall
s. curry
kidd

:laugh:

Supreme LA
06-24-2011, 11:33 PM
kidd is garbage

You can't be serious. :confused:

JJ_JKidd
06-24-2011, 11:41 PM
Top 10 definitely :clap: :clap: :clap:

Lakers + Giants
06-24-2011, 11:51 PM
TOP 3!?! LMAO.

1. Magic
2. Stockton
3. Big O
4. Isiah
5. Cousy
6. Kidd

Lakers + Giants
06-24-2011, 11:52 PM
magic
robertson
thomas
stockton
Kidd
Frazier right after Kidd

We have similar rankings. :) :hi5:

Delfiffer
06-24-2011, 11:54 PM
nash > kidd (based on career)- besides kidd having a ring, nash has had the better career by far

ULT WARRIOR408
06-24-2011, 11:56 PM
Top 10 definitely :clap: :clap: :clap:

Top 10?**** top 5 fa sho.

Lakers + Giants
06-25-2011, 12:00 AM
nash > kidd (based on career)- besides kidd having a ring, nash has had the better career by far

I would say that too, but Kidd's D helps him out a lot. But nash is also superior offensively. I'd say they're tied.

FuriousJatt
06-25-2011, 12:01 AM
kidd is garbage

kobe, lebron, and jordan are the worst players to ever play.

Chronz
06-25-2011, 12:08 AM
What makes kidd superior to gp?

Cal827
06-25-2011, 12:13 AM
kobe, lebron, and jordan are the worst players to ever play.

:laugh:
Somewhere, some Angry Bulls-Heat Homer are conspiring to mess with your account lol

Top 4 for me

Magic
Robertson
Stockton
Kidd
Shaq

valade16
06-25-2011, 12:18 AM
What makes kidd superior to gp?

His superior court vision. Plus he's probably the best fast break PG to ever play.

I know the east was weak, but he carried those Nets teams to the finals.

Weezyana
06-25-2011, 12:28 AM
TOP 3!?! LMAO.

1. Magic
2. Stockton
3. Big O
4. Isiah
5. Cousy
6. Kidd

Stockton over Oscar. Hahahahahahahaha. That must be a joke.

MVPKOBE43
06-25-2011, 12:45 AM
You can't be serious. :confused:

serious!!! we always overate everyone who really sucks but has potential. and we hate those who really are the best. kidd has been a terrible shooter his whole career and lucks up and wins a ring with a bs team that only won because the world (nba, fans and refs included) hated the heat more than anything. we always want to crown the current and disregard the foundation. go blow your thumbs, kidd sucks and you all know it. none of you would have wanted him on your team at the beginning of this year. NOW HES TOP 3? PLEASE!!! assists are overated. the assister has to have someone to finish and make the shot right? so why give soooo much credit to the passers or assisters.

Weezyana
06-25-2011, 12:47 AM
serious!!! we always overate everyone who really sucks but has potential. and we hate those who really are the best. kidd has been a terrible shooter his whole career and lucks up and wins a ring with a bs team that only won because the world (nba, fans and refs included) hated the heat more than anything. we always want to crown the current and disregard the foundation. go blow your thumbs, kidd sucks and you all know it. none of you would have wanted him on your team at the beginning of this year. NOW HES TOP 3? PLEASE!!! assists are overated. the assister has to have someone to finish and make the shot right? so why give soooo much credit to the passers or assisters.

If you don't think Kidd is a top 5 or so point guard ever then you don't know basketball,plain and simple.

MVPKOBE43
06-25-2011, 12:47 AM
What makes kidd superior to gp?

nothing does. cuzz hes not. Im sure u agree

Hawkeye15
06-25-2011, 12:50 AM
Top 8 of all time.

Weezyana
06-25-2011, 12:56 AM
Kidd is 3rd all time in 3s, steals and triple doubles. 2nd in assists, 10x all star, 5x all NBA 1st team, 9x all defense, 3 finals appearances, 1 championship, co-rookie of the year and 2 gold medals. That = top 5 pg ever

drobe86
06-25-2011, 12:59 AM
Now that Kidd has his ring his number 2 behind the great Magic Johnson

Magic
Kidd
Stockton
Thomas
Payton


Lol@ at those saying Nash is better than Kidd. Nash hasn't played nearly as effective for the same amount of time as kidd. People forget that it took Nash 3-4 years to get good. Kidd has been a baller since day 1. And besides Kidd is a superior passer and 3 pt shooter at this stage... And let's not compare them defensively... Kidd plays defense and has been an elite defender for his position for some time. Hence the reason that Kidd has a ring and Nash doesn't...

gaughan333
06-25-2011, 01:06 AM
magic
robertson
thomas
stockton
Kidd
Frazier right after Kidd

I like this list a lot.

gaughan333
06-25-2011, 01:08 AM
Now that Kidd has his ring his number 2 behind the great Magic Johnson

Magic
Kidd
Stockton
Thomas
Payton


Lol@ at those saying Nash is better than Kidd. Nash hasn't played nearly as effective for the same amount of time as kidd. People forget that it took Nash 3-4 years to get good. Kidd has been a baller since day 1. And besides Kidd is a superior passer and 3 pt shooter at this stage... And let's not compare them defensively... Kidd plays defense and has been an elite defender for his position for some time. Hence the reason that Kidd has a ring and Nash doesn't...
Alright i agree with 99% of what you said. But Kidd's defense is not why he has a ring. He played great defense in that series, don't get me wrong, but that was a total team effort

Weezyana
06-25-2011, 01:09 AM
Now that Kidd has his ring his number 2 behind the great Magic Johnson

Magic
Kidd
Stockton
Thomas
Payton


Lol@ at those saying Nash is better than Kidd. Nash hasn't played nearly as effective for the same amount of time as kidd. People forget that it took Nash 3-4 years to get good. Kidd has been a baller since day 1. And besides Kidd is a superior passer and 3 pt shooter at this stage... And let's not compare them defensively... Kidd plays defense and has been an elite defender for his position for some time. Hence the reason that Kidd has a ring and Nash doesn't...

I agree with you that Kidd is better than Nash, but Kidd isn't even in the same universe as Nash as a 3 point shooter. And you don't have Oscar in your top 5, but I'll just hope that's a mistake.

gaughan333
06-25-2011, 01:10 AM
kobe, lebron, and jordan are the worst players to ever play.

So are dwade, garnett, and allen. How could you forget them in a worst players list.

Weezyana
06-25-2011, 01:11 AM
Alright i agree with 99% of what you said. But Kidd's defense is not why he has a ring. He played great defense in that series, don't get me wrong, but that was a total team effort

Kidd had just as much value, if not more, on defense than he did on offense this post season. He played great D on Kobe, Westbrook, wade, and James.

drobe86
06-25-2011, 01:12 AM
I agree with you that Kidd is better than Nash, but Kidd isn't even in the same universe as Nash as a 3 point shooter. And you don't have Oscar in your top 5, but I'll just hope that's a mistake.


The big o was a good player but I think somewhat overrated. He was Lebron in the 60's and 70's lol.. He wasn't a winner and just padded his stats because he was far bigger and more skilled than everyone in his era...

drobe86
06-25-2011, 01:14 AM
Kidd had just as much value, if not more, on defense than he did on offense this post season. He played great D on Kobe, Westbrook, wade, and James.

+1 the Mavs backcourt was so small that Kidd had to guard the other teams top Guards. He played well vs. elite players that were around 6'7 and he's just 6'4. Kidd's legacy is cemented... Its been a pleasure watching him play the last 17 years...

gaughan333
06-25-2011, 01:14 AM
Kidd had just as much value, if not more, on defense than he did on offense this post season. He played great D on Kobe, Westbrook, wade, and James.
I'm not saying he didn't. I just don't agree with saying that is why he has a ring. It was a huge factor, but in my opinion, that statement takes a lot away from the team that was around him. Maybe I took it in a way that wasn't implied.

GREATNESS ONE
06-25-2011, 01:17 AM
The big o was a good player but I think somewhat overrated. He was Lebron in the 60's and 70's lol.. He wasn't a winner and just padded his stats because he was far bigger and more skilled than everyone in his era...

:punish If anything he's underrated.

Jewelz0376
06-25-2011, 01:18 AM
The big o was a good player but I think somewhat overrated. He was Lebron in the 60's and 70's lol.. He wasn't a winner and just padded his stats because he was far bigger and more skilled than everyone in his era...

So because he was better ("more skilled") than everyone else he played with he's overrated??

Weezyana
06-25-2011, 01:18 AM
The big o was a good player but I think somewhat overrated. He was Lebron in the 60's and 70's lol.. He wasn't a winner and just padded his stats because he was far bigger and more skilled than everyone in his era...

You clearly don't know much about basketball then. First you say Kidd is a better 3 point shooter than Nash, which anyone who really watches the NBA knows he isn't. Oscar is widely considered one of the best 5 players ever and you don't even consider him a top 5 pg lol. The dude averaged a triple double over his first 5 seasons in the league.

Lakersfan2483
06-25-2011, 01:31 AM
Magic
Oscar
Isaiah
Stockton
Payton
Kidd

Sadds The Gr8
06-25-2011, 01:32 AM
Now that Kidd has his ring his number 2 behind the great Magic Johnson

Magic
Kidd
Stockton
Thomas
Payton


Lol@ at those saying Nash is better than Kidd. Nash hasn't played nearly as effective for the same amount of time as kidd. People forget that it took Nash 3-4 years to get good. Kidd has been a baller since day 1. And besides Kidd is a superior passer and 3 pt shooter at this stage... And let's not compare them defensively... Kidd plays defense and has been an elite defender for his position for some time. Hence the reason that Kidd has a ring and Nash doesn't...

lol.

gaughan333
06-25-2011, 01:42 AM
The only reason kidd would seem that he has a superior 3 game is because he needs it. Nash can still live without relying on it. Though I do think Kidd is better (as of now career wise) than nash.

Weezyana
06-25-2011, 01:45 AM
The only reason kidd would seem that he has a superior 3 game is because he needs it. Nash can still live without relying on it. Though I do think Kidd is better (as of now career wise) than nash.

Kidd doesn't have a superior 3 game in any way, shape, or form.

gaughan333
06-25-2011, 04:17 AM
Kidd doesn't have a superior 3 game in any way, shape, or form.

I agree, it seems that way cuz he needs it.

NYKalltheway
06-25-2011, 04:39 AM
People are discussing Payton for Top 5 and no word for Dennis Johnson or Mo Cheeks? :laugh:

More-Than-Most
06-25-2011, 05:04 AM
Now that Kidd has his ring his number 2 behind the great Magic Johnson

Magic
Kidd
Stockton
Thomas
Payton


Lol@ at those saying Nash is better than Kidd. Nash hasn't played nearly as effective for the same amount of time as kidd. People forget that it took Nash 3-4 years to get good. Kidd has been a baller since day 1. And besides Kidd is a superior passer and 3 pt shooter at this stage... And let's not compare them defensively... Kidd plays defense and has been an elite defender for his position for some time. Hence the reason that Kidd has a ring and Nash doesn't...

:facepalm:

How can you honestly type that without Loling? I think kid might be slightly better because of his defense but if I had to choose between both on who I would want to run my team when they were at their peaks... I would go Nash.

MTar786
06-25-2011, 05:31 AM
kidd is top 4 for sure. number 3 in my eyes.

i dont understand why people rate stockton or nash higher than kidd

1.magic
2.oscar
3.kidd
4.stockton
5a.thomas
5b.payton
7.cousy
8.frazier
9.nash
10.chris paul :)

Jaji
06-25-2011, 06:17 AM
Where does Jason Kidd rank among all time PG's?

I've heard a few people say top 3 all time among PG's. Not sure, want to get an idea from you guys.

This is the first thing that popped into my head upon reading the thread title.

Ron!n
06-25-2011, 08:30 AM
Jason.Frederick.Kidd
:clap:
Jason.Frederick.Kidd

naps
06-25-2011, 02:02 PM
No way in the hell he is better than Magic, Oscar, Stockton, and Thomas. So he is definitely not in the top 4. I could argue a few other names above him as well.

NBAfan4life
06-25-2011, 03:03 PM
Magic
Stockton
Robertson
Thomas
Kidd

Kidd, Thomas, could be interchangable.

Young2Kinsler
06-25-2011, 04:01 PM
Magic
Oscar
Kidd

End of story

Pietro1023
06-25-2011, 04:05 PM
1 Magic
2 Oscar
3 Stockton
4 Isiah
5 Kidd
6 Frazier
7 Cousy
8 Nash
9 GP
10 Maravich

CP3 on the riseeee

Pietro1023
06-25-2011, 04:06 PM
And Nash will likely be in top 5 after his career is done

COOLbeans
06-25-2011, 04:18 PM
Top 5

COOLbeans
06-25-2011, 04:23 PM
nash > kidd (based on career)- besides kidd having a ring, nash has had the better career by far

Im not sure that you quite understand the game of basketball. To say somebody's greater than Kidd by far is entirely unmerited and quite offensive to the game. Magic's not even FAR superior than anyone on the top 5 list.

Atownballa5
06-25-2011, 04:44 PM
kidd top 3 in my mind, hes a great leader that finally got his ring

Lim
06-25-2011, 04:53 PM
so why exactly are people putting isiah ahead of kidd AND stockton?!

Cano4prez
06-25-2011, 05:46 PM
Magic
Oscar
Stockton
Kidd

Weezyana
06-25-2011, 05:57 PM
1 Magic
1a Oscar
3 Thomas
4 Kidd
5 Stockton

People having Oscar any lower than second need their brain examined. The guy put up a triple double a game over a 5 year span.

saucy1
06-25-2011, 06:14 PM
been watchin him since high school jason is the only player ive ever seen that can dominate a game without scoring i cant speak for guys like oscar b4 my time but he is number 2 behind magic.he used to called ason no j pretty remarkable he s worked so hard that hes i believe 2nd all time in 3s

JordansBulls
06-25-2011, 08:29 PM
1 Magic
1a Oscar
3 Thomas
4 Kidd
5 Stockton

People having Oscar any lower than second need their brain examined. The guy put up a triple double a game over a 5 year span.

Actually might think of putting Payton ahead of Kidd.

dtmagnet
06-25-2011, 08:38 PM
magic
robertson
thomas
stockton
cousy
frazier
nash
rondo
payton
fisher
j. wall
s. curry
kidd

Is that a joke or something?

Lakers4ItAll
06-25-2011, 08:54 PM
I would put Kidd right w/ Nash

Lakers4ItAll
06-25-2011, 08:56 PM
how the hell can you guys have Stockton so low? He's right there w/ Magic, it's not his fault he faced MJ all those years

BullySixChicago
06-25-2011, 09:12 PM
Where does Jason Kidd rank among all time PG's?

I've heard a few people say top 3 all time among PG's. Not sure, want to get an idea from you guys.

Those people that say top 3 have just started watching basketball, No way is Kidd in the top 3, you have Magic Johnson, Oscar Roberston, John Stockton and Bob Cousey, Isiah Thomas, Walt Frazier and Mark Jackson rated ahead of him.

piston priest
06-25-2011, 09:14 PM
so why exactly are people putting isiah ahead of kidd AND stockton?!

Well, this is just a guess here, but I would say it's because he was a better player than either of them.

Lim
06-25-2011, 09:17 PM
Magic
Oscar
Stockton
Kidd

i agree

Lim
06-25-2011, 09:21 PM
Well, this is just a guess here, but I would say it's because he was a better player than either of them.

very convincing

Weezyana
06-25-2011, 09:21 PM
Those people that say top 3 have just started watching basketball, No way is Kidd in the top 3, you have Magic Johnson, Oscar Roberston, John Stockton and Bob Cousey, Isiah Thomas, Walt Frazier and Mark Jackson rated ahead of him.

Mark Jackson lol. He won't even make the hall of fame. Kidd will be in in his first try. Jackson was a 1 time all star and never made any all NBA team. I think you may have just started watching basketball.

piston priest
06-25-2011, 09:24 PM
very convincing

It should be convincing enough. Thomas could do everything they could in terms of passing the ball, but his defence was better and he could score. Furthermore, he willed his team to back-to-back championships against Jordan's Bulls, Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers...in a single post season.

I would put Kidd in the five range, in terms of great point guards. Magic and Thomas are both better, and I would probably take Stockton over him as well.

Weezyana
06-25-2011, 09:38 PM
how the hell can you guys have Stockton so low? He's right there w/ Magic, it's not his fault he faced MJ all those years

By "all those years" you mean twice?

DRose7
06-25-2011, 09:41 PM
Those people that say top 3 have just started watching basketball, No way is Kidd in the top 3, you have Magic Johnson, Oscar Roberston, John Stockton and Bob Cousey, Isiah Thomas, Walt Frazier and Mark Jackson rated ahead of him.

LMFAO MARC JACKSON AND BOB COUSEY BETTTER THAN KIDD!!!!! :jumpy:

Lim
06-25-2011, 09:42 PM
It should be convincing enough. Thomas could do everything they could in terms of passing the ball, but his defence was better and he could score. Furthermore, he willed his team to back-to-back championships against Jordan's Bulls, Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers...in a single post season.

I would put Kidd in the five range, in terms of great point guards. Magic and Thomas are both better, and I would probably take Stockton over him as well.

right but were talking individually here, him winning back to back championships is great and all, but basketball is a team game, so many variables come into play to win a championship which is why it shouldn't be brought up when comparing players individually. ill agree with u that his D was better but his passing is worse than both easily. he avged 4 turnovers per game, that should be telling enough. he scores better but does so inefficiently compared to stockton who was amazingly efficient. i would make kidd better than isiah on his triple doubles alone.

DRose7
06-25-2011, 09:47 PM
How many players can you name that can dominate the whole game without scoring??
How many players can still take players to school at the age of 38??
Jason Kidd has the best Point Guard IQ in the game still, even after 17 years..

dodie53
06-25-2011, 09:49 PM
Top 10 definitely :clap: :clap: :clap:

safe answer
and
i agree

Weezyana
06-25-2011, 09:50 PM
right but were talking individually here, him winning back to back championships is great and all, but basketball is a team game, so many variables come into play to win a championship which is why it shouldn't be brought up when comparing players individually. ill agree with u that his D was better but his passing is worse than both easily. he avged 4 turnovers per game, that should be telling enough. he scores better but does so inefficiently compared to stockton who was amazingly efficient. i would make kidd better than isiah on his triple doubles alone.

isiah wasn't in the same universe as Kidd on the defensive end of the floor. Kidd Has made the all defense team 9 times. Isiah never did once.

piston priest
06-25-2011, 09:56 PM
right but were talking individually here, him winning back to back championships is great and all, but basketball is a team game, so many variables come into play to win a championship which is why it shouldn't be brought up when comparing players individually. ill agree with u that his D was better but his passing is worse than both easily. he avged 4 turnovers per game, that should be telling enough. he scores better but does so inefficiently compared to stockton who was amazingly efficient. i would make kidd better than isiah on his triple doubles alone.

Stockton was better percentage wise, true, and his 50 percent or whatever was pretty good, though a good shooting percentage doesn't mean you're a great offensive player, either. Over the last month or so of the season, Chris Wilcox was shooting in the low to mid 70s in terms of percentage, but you still don't want him as your first option.

And though his shooting wasn't as good percentage wise, I'd hardly consider 45 percent from a shooting point guard inefficient. And in terms of passing, they're separated by a total of 1 assist per game for their career, and even that's misleading because Thomas played on a team with a lot of great passers that would also handle the ball. Isiah, for example, averaged 11 and 14 assists a game directly preceding Dumar's arrival. Joe was himself a good passer and he averaged about five assists a night. Plus, it's not like there's a huge discrepancy in turnovers, I think there's only about a TO a game that separates them. And my point with the championships wasn't to say that Thomas was better because he won them, but to show how good he was that he could take a team against the best players in the league, like the Lakers that had arguably two of the greatest players of all time, and still emerge victorious.

At the end of the day, I don't think anyone can be convinced. I'm a blatant homer, and I'll admit that, but I feel very strongly that if you were given the task of building a successful NBA team and you had the choice between Kidd, Stockton or Thomas in their prime, that it would be a colossal mistake to take the former two.

piston priest
06-25-2011, 09:59 PM
isiah wasn't in the same universe as Kidd on the defensive end of the floor. Kidd Has made the all defense team 9 times. Isiah never did once.

I put very little stock in awards that are voted upon like that. That honor is doled out by head coaches and it's no secret that Thomas wasn't a very well liked player. He had already been jipped out of a spot on the Olympic team because of negative bias, and I'm sure that could have played into it somewhat. And besides that, there were way more upper echelon defenders back then, so making it would be considerably harder.
Again, this is an issue that can't be proven by stats, since steals are the only defensive stat that guards accumulate, and that's obviously not a good way to judge them.

Weezyana
06-25-2011, 10:19 PM
I put very little stock in awards that are voted upon like that. That honor is doled out by head coaches and it's no secret that Thomas wasn't a very well liked player. He had already been jipped out of a spot on the Olympic team because of negative bias, and I'm sure that could have played into it somewhat. And besides that, there were way more upper echelon defenders back then, so making it would be considerably harder.
Again, this is an issue that can't be proven by stats, since steals are the only defensive stat that guards accumulate, and that's obviously not a good way to judge them.

Even if you do out little stock in awards like that, if you watched them play they still aren't comparable defensively. Isiah was often overpowered due to being so small. Kidd was named 9 times while playing in the same era as great defensive guards like Jordan, Payton, Kobe, Stockton etc. Thomas played on a great defensive team, but he wasn't a great defender.

xxxplicit69
06-25-2011, 10:27 PM
magic
robertson
thomas
stockton
cousy
frazier
nash
rondo
payton
fisher
j. wall
s. curry
kidd

If you are throwing current players on this list, how are you leaving out Rose, CP3 and DWill, the top 3 PGs in this league. Definately over Rondo, Curry, Fisher, and JWall.

piston priest
06-25-2011, 10:37 PM
Even if you do out little stock in awards like that, if you watched them play they still aren't comparable defensively. Isiah was often overpowered due to being so small. Kidd was named 9 times while playing in the same era as great defensive guards like Jordan, Payton, Kobe, Stockton etc. Thomas played on a great defensive team, but he wasn't a great defender.

We must have been watching a different Jason Kidd, then, because the Kidd I've seen play over the past decade or so wasn't that great. Thomas may have had some difficulty guarding bigger players, but he fared okay against people like Magic, who was almost power forward size. Kidd, however was always way too slow to guard quicker players, and the only way I can imagine he got voted to the defensive team (a massive shock to me that he made it nine times) was because of his stellar rebounding numbers. I've always thought he was at best mediocre. And let's not scoff at the guards during the 80s, either. Jordan was playing then, and Isiah's team mate Joe Dumars was one of the greatest defenders at the guard position.

Weezyana
06-25-2011, 10:41 PM
We must have been watching a different Jason Kidd, then, because the Kidd I've seen play over the past decade or so wasn't that great. Thomas may have had some difficulty guarding bigger players, but he fared okay against people like Magic, who was almost power forward size. Kidd, however was always way too slow to guard quicker players, and the only way I can imagine he got voted to the defensive team (a massive shock to me that he made it nine times) was because of his stellar rebounding numbers. I've always thought he was at best mediocre. And let's not scoff at the guards during the 80s, either. Jordan was playing then, and Isiah's team mate Joe Dumars was one of the greatest defenders at the guard position.

you must not have watched the playoffs this season. And Jason Kidd was one of the faster players in the league in his prime. Kidd is a shade below payton as far as defensive point guards go. You're just a biased pistons fan, I get it.

piston priest
06-26-2011, 02:23 PM
you must not have watched the playoffs this season. And Jason Kidd was one of the faster players in the league in his prime. Kidd is a shade below payton as far as defensive point guards go. You're just a biased pistons fan, I get it.

One of the fastest players in the league? Really? Okay, your argument has officially lost all credibility.

The fact that anyone would put Kidd ahead of Thomas is completely ludicrous. They weren't even in the same league. Forgive me if I don't think a guy that averaged less assists, less points on a worse FG percentage and who was never able to will his team to a championship was better. The only thing Kidd has going for him at all is a couple more rebounds a game and a slightly higher 3pt percentage. That in no way puts him ahead of a player like Thomas.

Dankster
06-26-2011, 02:27 PM
1. Magic 2.Oscar 3.Stockton 4.Kidd 5. Walt Clyde Frazier

Dankster
06-26-2011, 02:29 PM
^^^ To the poster above, you probably never watched Gary Payton during his prime years in Seattle. Not only was he a defensive guru, but he played the game with a psychological edge against his opponents. The guy was unbelievable defensively on man-to-man guarding and playing the passing lanes for steals. I think Kidd has a marvelous career but they're worlds apart defensively.

BabyStockton
06-26-2011, 02:41 PM
right but were talking individually here, him winning back to back championships is great and all, but basketball is a team game, so many variables come into play to win a championship which is why it shouldn't be brought up when comparing players individually. ill agree with u that his D was better but his passing is worse than both easily. he avged 4 turnovers per game, that should be telling enough. he scores better but does so inefficiently compared to stockton who was amazingly efficient. i would make kidd better than isiah on his triple doubles alone.

Umm what? sorry bro, i was looking at your sig.

llemon
06-26-2011, 05:34 PM
Those people that say top 3 have just started watching basketball, No way is Kidd in the top 3, you have Magic Johnson, Oscar Roberston, John Stockton and Bob Cousey, Isiah Thomas, Walt Frazier and Mark Jackson rated ahead of him.

Mark Jackson?

Weezyana
06-26-2011, 05:53 PM
One of the fastest players in the league? Really? Okay, your argument has officially lost all credibility.

The fact that anyone would put Kidd ahead of Thomas is completely ludicrous. They weren't even in the same league. Forgive me if I don't think a guy that averaged less assists, less points on a worse FG percentage and who was never able to will his team to a championship was better. The only thing Kidd has going for him at all is a couple more rebounds a game and a slightly higher 3pt percentage. That in no way puts him ahead of a player like Thomas.

First of all, I ranked Thomas ahead of Kidd overall, so check your facts. I only said Kidd was better defensively and you must not have seen Kidd in his prime, the guy was extremely fast. I'm not saying he was rose or Westbrook in his prime in regards to speed. Kidd guarded Kobe, Westbrook, wade, and James in these playoffs and was more than effective on each of them at age 38. Saying he made the all defense team 9 times on his rebounding is absolutely ignorant. Kidd ranks 13th all time in defensive win shares where Thomas ranks 81 and Kidd is ranked 100th in defensive rating and Thomas isn't even ranked in the top 250. Is that coaches bias also? I've never heard anyone in my life besides you mention anything about thomas' defense being anything more than good.

Weezyana
06-26-2011, 05:57 PM
^^^ To the poster above, you probably never watched Gary Payton during his prime years in Seattle. Not only was he a defensive guru, but he played the game with a psychological edge against his opponents. The guy was unbelievable defensively on man-to-man guarding and playing the passing lanes for steals. I think Kidd has a marvelous career but they're worlds apart defensively.

I said Payton was better, but saying they are worlds apart is just ridiculous.

llemon
06-26-2011, 06:05 PM
I'll say this about Kidd's defense.

Didn't really follow Jason when he was a Sun, but as a Net and Maverick, there wasn't a quick PG that Kidd could guard.

Weezyana
06-26-2011, 06:13 PM
I'll say this about Kidd's defense.

Didn't really follow Jason when he was a Sun, but as a Net and Maverick, there wasn't a quick PG that Kidd could guard.

You must not have watched the playoffs either. Westbrook, who may be the fastest player in the NBA was dominated by Kidd at age 38. He shot 36% and averaged 5 turnovers a game while being guarded by Kidd virtually the entire series. The only time he did a lot of damage was with barea on him.

llemon
06-26-2011, 06:30 PM
You must not have watched the playoffs either. Westbrook, who may be the fastest player in the NBA was dominated by Kidd at age 38. He shot 36% and averaged 5 turnovers a game while being guarded by Kidd virtually the entire series. The only time he did a lot of damage was with barea on him.

Oh, I watched that series. Dallas team defense shut down Westbrook. That and Westbrook walking the ball upcourt.

Damn, I watched Anthony Johnson and Kenny Anderson tear Kidd a new one in the playoffs.

Weezyana
06-26-2011, 06:47 PM
Oh, I watched that series. Dallas team defense shut down Westbrook. That and Westbrook walking the ball upcourt.

Damn, I watched Anthony Johnson and Kenny Anderson tear Kidd a new one in the playoffs.

You're looking at 1 game and I'm looking at a career. Anthony Johnson had a career day, big deal. Tell me what Kidd did against Kobe. No matter what I say, you're still gonna say it was team defense, but if you really watched closely, kid harassed Westbrook and Kobe into taking tough shots and turning the ball over.

llemon
06-26-2011, 06:56 PM
You're looking at 1 game and I'm looking at a career. Anthony Johnson had a career day, big deal. Tell me what Kidd did against Kobe. No matter what I say, you're still gonna say it was team defense, but if you really watched closely, kid harassed Westbrook and Kobe into taking tough shots and turning the ball over.

Kobe is the Lakers quick PG?

And AJ ate up Kidd nearly that whole 6 game series.

THE MTL
06-26-2011, 08:11 PM
Top 10 of all time definitely but there have been so many good PGs that many ppl are forgetting about.

Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, John Stockton, Oscar Robertson, Walt Frazier, Bob Cousy....have all had more prosperous careers than Kidd and have the championships to back it up (besides Stockton).

Weezyana
06-26-2011, 08:30 PM
Kobe is the Lakers quick PG?

And AJ ate up Kidd nearly that whole 6 game series.

Kobe is harder to defend than any "quick pg" so your point there is irrelevant. Tell me the reason Kidd was all defense 9 times and is 13th all time in defensive win shares. Present some facts please. You aren't named all defense that many times by mistake.

JordansBulls
06-27-2011, 12:46 PM
Mark Jackson?

Yeah there is now way that Mark Jackson is rated ahead of him.:speechless:

Chronz
06-27-2011, 03:11 PM
Kobe is harder to defend than any "quick pg" so your point there is irrelevant. Tell me the reason Kidd was all defense 9 times and is 13th all time in defensive win shares. Present some facts please. You aren't named all defense that many times by mistake.

Harder for who? Your average sized pg sure but for kidd I think he rather favor that matchup vs say the likes of Tony Parker, whom he struggled to contain in the finals when he was at his peak.

MacFitz92
06-27-2011, 04:20 PM
Those people that say top 3 have just started watching basketball, No way is Kidd in the top 3, you have Magic Johnson, Oscar Roberston, John Stockton and Bob Cousey, Isiah Thomas, Walt Frazier and Mark Jackson rated ahead of him.

Mark Jackson? Based off what?

drobe86
06-27-2011, 07:35 PM
Mark Jackson? Based off what?


Kidd is top 3 and thats all there is to it. He's elite in Rebounding, Defense, Assists, 3 pt shooting and etc.... Other than Magic Johnson there isn't a clear cut player better than Kidd at the PG position. I smell alot of Kidd Hate because he played for the Mavs. If he played for LA or Boston he'd be the best all time....:facepalm:

nickdymez
06-27-2011, 08:06 PM
nash > kidd (based on career)- besides kidd having a ring, nash has had the better career by far

By far? Kidds been to the finals 3 times.. He lead two of those teams... If your going off MVP's then whoopty ****in doo

JJ_JKidd
06-27-2011, 08:56 PM
9-time All-Defensive Selection:

First Team : 1999, 2001, 2002, 2006
Second Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007

Yall can just shove these up your @$$es :clap:

CowboysKB24
06-28-2011, 12:02 AM
Magic
Robertson
Thomas

then it is a free for all after those three IMO. If people want to rank him 4th I wouldn't argue.

Thomas over Kidd... I don't see it.

FUKudomeYOMOMMA
06-28-2011, 12:33 AM
for everyone hating on kidd your thinking of kidd now, you gotta account for what he did he whole career.
he was a triple double machine in the late 90s-early00's. his teams were always in contention (not 100% because of him, but he gave a major contribution on every team), and he didnt disappear when it mattered. Think about his nets days. who brought that team to the finals, vince carter?
I say at his prime hes top 5 at most but id say def top 10

Jason Kidd is the Kurt Russel of basketball people!!!! steady work for 17 years!

Weezyana
06-28-2011, 12:35 AM
Harder for who? Your average sized pg sure but for kidd I think he rather favor that matchup vs say the likes of Tony Parker, whom he struggled to contain in the finals when he was at his peak.

In the world of basketball, Kobe is harder to guard than any "quick pg". Parker averaged 14 points and 4 assists on 38.5% shooting in the 03 finals, so I'm not too sure how Kidd struggled to contain him.

BuddhaMONK
06-28-2011, 12:39 AM
right behind nash

Weezyana
06-28-2011, 12:44 AM
right behind nash

Canadian bias

COOLbeans
06-28-2011, 12:56 AM
Rate either of them where you will, but Kidd is better than Nash at the PG position.

FUKudomeYOMOMMA
06-28-2011, 12:57 AM
i always found the kidd nash suns mavs double flip flop funny

to my recollection: 1 kidd drafted by mavs,
2 kidd goes to suns,
3 suns draft nash,
4 kidd goes to nj,
5 then i think nash goes to the mavs and kidd ends up back on the suns somehow,
6 and ultimately nash goes back to the suns and kidd ends up with his original draft team.

feel free to correct me if i was wrong above... anyways, id put kidd over nash.. nash could dish, but for the most part kidd was the main dish on his teams over the years

BuddhaMONK
06-28-2011, 12:58 AM
Canadian bias

naw it's just he's better, it's like arguing jordan and lebron....Jordan

if you replaced Kidd with nash, paul, or williams they all would have won a ring.

Weezyana
06-28-2011, 01:10 AM
naw it's just he's better, it's like arguing jordan and lebron....Jordan

if you replaced Kidd with nash, paul, or williams they all would have won a ring.

You may be right about the ring, but Nash hasn't had near the career Kidd has. Kidd ranks in the top 3 all time in 4 major categories. And unlike Nash, Kidd plays on both ends of the floor.

COOLbeans
06-28-2011, 01:11 AM
[QUOTE=BuddhaMONK;18403434]naw it's just he's better, it's like arguing jordan and lebron....Jordan

if you replaced Kidd with nash, paul, or williams they all would have won a ring.

wow are you 14?

Weezyana
06-28-2011, 01:17 AM
i always found the kidd nash suns mavs double flip flop funny

to my recollection: 1 kidd drafted by mavs,
2 kidd goes to suns,
3 suns draft nash,
4 kidd goes to nj,
5 then i think nash goes to the mavs and kidd ends up back on the suns somehow,
6 and ultimately nash goes back to the suns and kidd ends up with his original draft team.

feel free to correct me if i was wrong above... anyways, id put kidd over nash.. nash could dish, but for the most part kidd was the main dish on his teams over the years

Kidd was drafted by Dallas in 94 and traded to the Suns in Dec 96
Nash drafted by Suns in 96 and traded to Dallas in 98
Kidd traded to NJ in 01
Nash signs with Suns in 04
Kidd traded to Dallas in 08

You were close, only thing you messed up was Kidd going back to the suns, which he never did.

Bishnoff
06-28-2011, 01:27 AM
magic
robertson
thomas
stockton
Kidd
Frazier right after Kidd

Pretty good list. I'd definitely have Kidd behind Magic, Oscar, and Stockton.

Catfish1314
06-28-2011, 01:31 AM
Kidd's 3rd or 4th. Actually I think I'd have him ahead of Stockton. Kidd in his prime was a more complete player than Stockton. And Kidd in his prime never had the opportunity to play with a finisher anywhere near as good as Karl Malone. Magic is obviously first, but I think it's very debatable after that.

Bishnoff
06-28-2011, 01:36 AM
Rate either of them where you will, but Kidd is better than Nash at the PG position.

Kidd is a more complete PG (than Nash) and has performed at a high level every year of his career. Nash took longer to develop (due mainly to being behind established PG's in the rotation at Phoenix) and is still yet to win a ring.

I'm a big Nash fan but I have both Kidd and KJ ahead of Nash in terms of career success, at this point in time. Nash may surpass them but his window is closing fast.

PrettyBoyJ
06-28-2011, 02:01 AM
One knock I have on kid was he was very inefficient, but other than that he had a great career played on both ends of the floor.. Many ppl forget Kidd had micro-fracture surgery on his knee which very few players come back from 100%.. the fact he came back and still was able to defend at a high level speaks a lot..

the list imo goes like this:

Magic
Oscar
Stockton
Kidd

OaklandsFinest
06-28-2011, 02:33 AM
Top 3 without a doubt. Anyone who has Payton in their top 5 should be shot.

You should be shot in the groin, then left to bleed out in pain, until a cat comes and urinates on t he remains of your testicles that are the size of Leslie Chow's...

Sorry, had to vent.. But kidd is top 5 no doubt.

Magic
Isiah
Oscar
Kidd
Payton
Stockton

Chronz
06-28-2011, 02:59 AM
In the world of basketball, Kobe is harder to guard than any "quick pg". Parker averaged 14 points and 4 assists on 38.5% shooting in the 03 finals, so I'm not too sure how Kidd struggled to contain him.

In the world of basketball, you have to watch the game for those stats to hold any merit. You see I never said TP had a great Finals, I said he TORCHED KIDD.

It wasnt until Kerry Kittles got the call did TP begin to struggle. The first 3 games they tried Kidd on him and TP exploded.

Weezyana
06-28-2011, 04:03 AM
In the world of basketball, you have to watch the game for those stats to hold any merit. You see I never said TP had a great Finals, I said he TORCHED KIDD.

It wasnt until Kerry Kittles got the call did TP begin to struggle. The first 3 games they tried Kidd on him and TP exploded.

Even in the first 3 games, I'd hardly say Parker exploded, but that's your prerogative. Kidd was an outstanding defender in his prime, and still is very good right now. If you couldn't see that, then I'm not too sure what you were watching. People keep bringing up a single series when you should be looking at a career. You're not looking at the bigger picture.

JJ_JKidd
06-28-2011, 06:43 AM
In the world of basketball, you have to watch the game for those stats to hold any merit. You see I never said TP had a great Finals, I said he TORCHED KIDD.

It wasnt until Kerry Kittles got the call did TP begin to struggle. The first 3 games they tried Kidd on him and TP exploded.

So Terry is better than Lebron?

Chronz
06-28-2011, 11:55 AM
Even in the first 3 games, I'd hardly say Parker exploded, but that's your prerogative.
Either way you were wrong about Kidd being able to contain him, the reality was that the decision to put the lankier Kittles on TP is what swung the series, momentarily at least, in favor of the Nets. But if you wish to argue semantics just tell me the proper word to use when a 20 year old kid who averaged 15 during the regular season starts dropping dubs on you and Ill use that word from now on.


Kidd was an outstanding defender in his prime, and still is very good right now. If you couldn't see that, then I'm not too sure what you were watching. People keep bringing up a single series when you should be looking at a career. You're not looking at the bigger picture.

Ironic considering your not looking at the ENTIRE PICTURE. Show me a single instance where I make the claim that he wasnt a great defender.




So Terry is better than Lebron?
No, Next question.

Delfiffer
06-28-2011, 12:09 PM
magic
stockton
oscar
thomas
archibald
nash
payton
cousy
kidd

JazzAllDay-JB
06-28-2011, 03:29 PM
Magic
Stockton
Oscar
Thomas
Kidd

Weezyana
06-28-2011, 05:01 PM
Either way you were wrong about Kidd being able to contain him, the reality was that the decision to put the lankier Kittles on TP is what swung the series, momentarily at least, in favor of the Nets. But if you wish to argue semantics just tell me the proper word to use when a 20 year old kid who averaged 15 during the regular season starts dropping dubs on you and Ill use that word from now on.


Ironic considering your not looking at the ENTIRE PICTURE. Show me a single instance where I make the claim that he wasnt a great defender.




No, Next question.

I don't know what "dropping dubs" means seeing as I'm not from the ghetto, so I can't provide you with any insight on what word to use when a guy Puts up 16 points on 14 shots, 21 points on 17 shots and 26 points on 21 shots.
How am I not looking at the entire picture when you're the one bringing up a singular series and I'm looking at the defensive accomplishments over a 17 year career. But if you want to single out a series Kidd made one if the fastest players in the league in Westbrook look like he was out of place and had no idea what he was doing in the WCF, and this was at 38 years old

Chronz
06-28-2011, 08:36 PM
I don't know what "dropping dubs" means seeing as I'm not from the ghetto, so I can't provide you with any insight on what word to use when a guy Puts up 16 points on 14 shots, 21 points on 17 shots and 26 points on 21 shots.
So understanding the word dub can only be accomplished if you live in Compton? LMFAO, do you know what that means? LAUGHING MY ****ING *** OFF, just in case you arent cultivated enough to hang out with the e-geeks, I cant tell with you. Anyways you can stop playing coy, you dont need to know the meaning of an easily google-able word, to finish defending your stance. You should have enough intelligence to deduce the meaning had you replaced dubs with CRUDS or some other hip slang neither of us knows about.

So again what would you have me call an instance where a kid starts performing above and beyond his standard level of play against you, only to all of sudden crash down to earth once the decision is made to take you off of him?




How am I not looking at the entire picture when you're the one bringing up a singular series and I'm looking at the defensive accomplishments over a 17 year career.
In short because you choose to argue about semantic labels than the issue presented, you rely on absolute generalizations (things like "__ is harder to defend than __", regardless of extenuating factors like physical attributes) and when confronted with actual defensive lapses in his career, you make up untrue claims (like attempting to credit Kidd for TP's horrific Finals when he in fact outdid himself vs Kidd and sucked vs a defender with a different physical makeup).

Im relying on the entire careers as well, but my complaints to your claims BEGIN by pointing out specific matchups, I havent gone through all the pages here but if youve already cleanly laid out a nice synopsis of his career, can you please point me to that post because the ones Ive seen thus far are riddled with flaws.



But if you want to single out a series Kidd made one if the fastest players in the league in Westbrook look like he was out of place and had no idea what he was doing in the WCF, and this was at 38 years old
Based on your previous post, forgive me if I dont trust in your ability to recall events with any historical accuracy. That said, why are you preaching? What makes you think I dont already know hes a great defender? Because I question the validity of some of your claims? Get on track bro

PS Whats with the moniker? Weezyana?