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View Full Version : Say what you will about Kahn but at least he can admit a mistake, Bill Simmons.



topdog
06-24-2011, 07:47 PM
As a Wolves fan, Bill Simmons has been especially annoying to listen to or read over the last few years (and yes I don't have to, but I'm a basketball fan dammit!). He seems to be especially critical of the man who "beat him out" for the GMship of the T-Wolves. Yes, even with all the media negativity he stands out.

Take my posting this as you will, but I felt a sense of justice at about the 32:24 mark of today's podcast with Kahn when Simmons has to backtrack a bit. Have a listen:

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?autoplay=1&id=6701395&callsign=ESPNRADIO


Amusing, no? Let the hate begin.

tbone2171
06-24-2011, 08:03 PM
Bill Simmons is a tool

Hiphopopotamus
06-24-2011, 08:06 PM
Simmons is the man. He is funny and often right. Kahn has sucked. But don 't hate on Simmons his columns are one of the only worthwhile things attached to espn.

tbone2171
06-24-2011, 08:14 PM
Simmons is the man. He is funny and often right. Kahn has sucked. But don 't hate on Simmons his columns are one of the only worthwhile things attached to espn.

I don't think anything on espn is worthwhile

iamsteel
06-24-2011, 08:27 PM
Kahn has done his job with stacking the team with young talent, while staying under the cap. They are just too young. The coaching staff and players are responsible for under-performing, but there is talent is in place. What have people really expected with the youngest team with an inexperienced coaching staff? Playoffs? Really?

ManRam
06-24-2011, 08:28 PM
I love Simmons. His commentary on Kahn has always been, "interesting", to say the least...

Oh well.

topdog
06-24-2011, 08:32 PM
Simmons is the man. He is funny and often right. Kahn has sucked. But don 't hate on Simmons his columns are one of the only worthwhile things attached to espn.

It's like listening to a stoner ramble about the tv he's watched and how it's somehow related to this grand scheme called "basketball." No substance. Now, you might gloss over an article and go "hey, that was kind of funny" but reading more than a few sentences is like taking a hammer to your brain cells.

Just my opinion :cool:

tbone2171
06-24-2011, 08:35 PM
As a Wolves fan, Bill Simmons has been especially annoying to listen to or read over the last few years (and yes I don't have to, but I'm a basketball fan dammit!). He seems to be especially critical of the man who "beat him out" for the GMship of the T-Wolves. Yes, even with all the media negativity he stands out.

Take my posting this as you will, but I felt a sense of justice at about the 32:24 mark of today's podcast with Kahn when Simmons has to backtrack a bit. Have a listen:

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?autoplay=1&id=6701395&callsign=ESPNRADIO


Amusing, no? Let the hate begin.

Haha...just listened to that part. Simmons getting caught w/ his pants down lol

topdog
06-24-2011, 08:37 PM
Seriously though, I think it's funny how BS is trying to throw Kahn's words back at him about Flynn all podcast and then he gets caught himself. How hard would it be to keep some credibility and either A) actually ante up or B) lie and make an excuse later.

Kashmir13579
06-24-2011, 08:48 PM
Is it wrong that i'm starting to like Kahn? Good OP.

tbone2171
06-24-2011, 09:15 PM
Is it wrong that i'm starting to like Kahn? Good OP.

:clap:

KnicksR4Real
06-24-2011, 09:35 PM
hes such a great gm for admitting a mistake

gaughan333
06-24-2011, 09:55 PM
I can't listen to this, is it kahn admitting that flynn was a bad draft pick?

B-West.Joba
06-24-2011, 10:05 PM
Dude, facts are, Bill Simmons is one of ESPN's biggest sports writers, probably the biggest along with Rick Reilly. He's funny, smart, and a good writer.

The other facts are, well, Kahn has sucked, and put together a ****** T-Wolves team. With all the trades he's made and top draft picks he had, he could have a great team to put out there with Kevin Love, instead, he has crap.

blastmasta26
06-24-2011, 10:38 PM
I love reading Bill Simmons :shrug:

topdog
06-24-2011, 10:46 PM
Dude, facts are, Bill Simmons is one of ESPN's biggest sports writers, probably the biggest along with Rick Reilly. He's funny, smart, and a good writer.

The other facts are, well, Kahn has sucked, and put together a ****** T-Wolves team. With all the trades he's made and top draft picks he had, he could have a great team to put out there with Kevin Love, instead, he has crap.

Can someone get us a dictionary? You use the word "facts" to express what are actually their opposite - opinions.

I hope people actually listen to the audio rather than just assumng they know what this thread is about...

B-West.Joba
06-24-2011, 10:52 PM
Can someone get us a dictionary? You use the word "facts" to express what are actually their opposite - opinions.

I hope people actually listen to the audio rather than just assumng they know what this thread is about...

Except it is true, Bill Simmons is one of ESPN's biggest writers. And well, Minnesota was 17-65, is that not a bad record? Sorry if I'm wrong.

KingOf215
06-24-2011, 11:06 PM
It's not Simmons fault that Kahn has done a lousy job.

tbone2171
06-24-2011, 11:07 PM
Dude, facts are, Bill Simmons is one of ESPN's biggest sports writers, probably the biggest along with Rick Reilly. He's funny, smart, and a good writer.

The other facts are, well, Kahn has sucked, and put together a ****** T-Wolves team. With all the trades he's made and top draft picks he had, he could have a great team to put out there with Kevin Love, instead, he has crap.

Ahh..actually those are opinions.

Rosh
06-24-2011, 11:10 PM
Bill Simmons is a beast.

tbone2171
06-24-2011, 11:11 PM
It's not Simmons fault that Kahn has done a lousy job.

Glad you edited your post...cuz he's actually only kept two pgs that he's drafted...Rubio and Flynn

B-West.Joba
06-24-2011, 11:21 PM
Ahh..actually those are opinions.

You're right, the Timberwolves haven't been lousy, and Simmons is a relatively unknown sports writer.

gaughan333
06-24-2011, 11:28 PM
Rebuilding a team takes time. They have a ton of talent, and are a team I'm interested in watching (if there is NBA basketball)

B-West.Joba
06-24-2011, 11:32 PM
Rebuilding a team takes time. They have a ton of talent, and are a team I'm interested in watching (if there is NBA basketball)

That I definitely agree with. Kahn's job was not easy, and Rubio/Love should be fun to watch.

tbone2171
06-24-2011, 11:32 PM
You're right, the Timberwolves haven't been lousy, and Simmons is a relatively unknown sports writer.

come back to me when your elementary teacher teaches you the difference between facts and opinions kiddo.

FuriousJatt
06-24-2011, 11:43 PM
I don't think anything on espn is worthwhile

man you have one of the funniest sigs EVER.

B-West.Joba
06-24-2011, 11:53 PM
come back to me when your elementary teacher teaches you the difference between facts and opinions kiddo.

This site is for comments, opinions, facts, not digs at other people that don't even prove why you're right. Good joke but if you want to prove me wrong, then tell me why, rather than acting like an "elementary" student. I said that they're facts in order to stress that the Timberwolves have been a very bad team, and Simmons is a well-known ESPN writer.

iamsteel
06-25-2011, 12:21 AM
there is a ton of people eating their words like he did about rubio signing, and also backing out of their bets too. it's all funny.

gaughan333
06-25-2011, 12:35 AM
I'm excited to see the twolves play in the next couple years. I am a huge Wes Johnson fan for reasons I am unsure of

flea
06-25-2011, 12:36 AM
I considered making a thread like this myself. In fact, I read Bill Simmons's article on the 2011 draft for the sole purpose of seeing what he was going to say to trash David Kahn.

Simmons is a terrible writer. Most of his articles, if they even have organization, are done incrementally or as a stream-of-consciousness - as if he's incapable of forming a coherent thought from start to finish. He spends his articles forcing pop culture metaphors and half-brained analysis on his readers and adds a heavy dose of sarcasm so he can also be called funny. But from an analytical standpoint and from a journalistic one he's terrible. The Kahn grudge is just more evidence.

Which gets me to why I love reading his articles when I know he'll talk about the T-Wolves. He's so mad that he didn't get that GM job that he'll take every opportunity to trash Kahn that he can. I think he has a lifelong grudge against the entire franchise now, which is more pathetic than anything.

The fact of the matter is that while the T-Wolves have not been a good team it hasn't been Kahn's fault. Yes he drafted a bunch of guards but all of them look to be good choices. Maybe he should have traded Flynn instead of Lawson at first, or neither at all now, but he's made some good choices. Love has been nothing but superb, despite his haters, and Ellington and Johnson have shown promise. It's a young team and Simmons treats the situation as if it's win-now. Getting Beasley was also a heads up move by the GM, and I think that Minnesota will be the surprise of 2011-2012. Hopefully then someone will call out Simmons on being a complete hack.

Sixerlover
06-25-2011, 12:42 AM
Simmons is a very good writer. One of if not the only reason I go to ESPN.com, Minny fans just hate him because he rags on the T-Wolves.. But you can't say he doesn't have Ammo. I mean he's a Boston fan so he's used to winning games. When the T-Wolves have lost what 132 of their last 164 games, that's pretty laughable. Then Kahn said the stuff to Webber last year, and he did draft 3 PG's in one round in '09 then 3 SF's in one round in '10.

Those things aren't false. Are they?

Mauersota
06-25-2011, 01:07 AM
Simmons is a very good writer. One of if not the only reason I go to ESPN.com, Minny fans just hate him because he rags on the T-Wolves.. But you can't say he doesn't have Ammo. I mean he's a Boston fan so he's used to winning games. When the T-Wolves have lost what 132 of their last 164 games, that's pretty laughable. Then Kahn said the stuff to Webber last year, and he did draft 3 PG's in one round in '09 then 3 SF's in one round in '10.

Those things aren't false. Are they?

False.

He picked Rubio and Flynn at 5 and 6. Denver is the team that picked Lawson at 18, not Kahn. The trade was already agreed to before the pick was made, it just was not made official till later.

Then in 2010 Portland traded for and picked Babbitt, not Kahn nearly identical to what happened in 09. And Lazar is more of a SG/SF then just a straight SF. But let's be honest it's not like this post is going to mean anything.

flea
06-25-2011, 01:12 AM
Simmons is a very good writer. One of if not the only reason I go to ESPN.com, Minny fans just hate him because he rags on the T-Wolves.. But you can't say he doesn't have Ammo. I mean he's a Boston fan so he's used to winning games. When the T-Wolves have lost what 132 of their last 164 games, that's pretty laughable. Then Kahn said the stuff to Webber last year, and he did draft 3 PG's in one round in '09 then 3 SF's in one round in '10.

Those things aren't false. Are they?

What the guy above me said and also this eschews the truth of the matter. He's assembled a very promising young team - and all under cap, which the Celts don't have to worry about. Obviously you've bought what he's selling hook, line, and sinker so there's probably no convincing you but outside of your world he's a poor writer, a poor journalist, and a petty man.

AI4MVP
06-25-2011, 01:21 AM
i dont get how people hate on kahn. hes built a pretty great young team.

VikesTwinsWolve
06-25-2011, 04:13 AM
i dont get how people hate on kahn. hes built a pretty great young team.

He made the Johnny Flynn miss. Ok i get it but do all 6th overall picks work out? It's insane how bad the wolves are talked about even tho Kahn IS assembling a nice young under the cap squad. What most know it all's on here fail to recognize when the transition from Mcfail to Kahn happened. lol I read about how stupid Kahn is for giving up next years pick to the clippers. That pick was traded well before Kahn took over but yet know it all's make threads about how dumb Kahn is for that...Wow watch out Skip Bayless Psd's best is coming...:mad:

Mplsman
06-25-2011, 08:22 AM
Simmons is a very good writer. One of if not the only reason I go to ESPN.com, Minny fans just hate him because he rags on the T-Wolves.. But you can't say he doesn't have Ammo. I mean he's a Boston fan so he's used to winning games. When the T-Wolves have lost what 132 of their last 164 games, that's pretty laughable. Then Kahn said the stuff to Webber last year, and he did draft 3 PG's in one round in '09 then 3 SF's in one round in '10.

Those things aren't false. Are they?

Let's not forget just a few years ago, before the "Big 3" trade, Boston was the worst team in the league.

Yes, that was an awesome trade (we know, we gave them KG) and they got 1 ring out of it. But now look at Boston, they are going to have to rebuild again. The big 3 are all in their late 30's, and their cap is atrocious.

At least the Wolves are stacked with young, explosive talent for the next decade and have one of the best salary caps in the league. We literally have no contracts over $5 mil.

Winning takes time, we all know that by now. But at least the Wolves are rebuilding the right way, NOW.

In only 2 years, David Kahn has completely overhauled this roster from the absolute garbage of a mess that Kevin McHale left behind. We have a much more talented roster now than a lot of the teams that were in the lottery this year. And we are not even done making moves yet.

David Kahn's additions in only 2 years, currently on our roster:

Ricky Rubio
Wes Johnson
Micheal Beasley
Derrick Williams
Anthony Randolph
Martell Webster
Luke Ridnour
Darko Milicic
Anthony Tolliver
Wayne Ellington

Current Wolves roster:

PG: Ricky Rubio- Luke Ridnour
SG: Wes Johnson- Martell Webster- Wayne Ellington
SF: Derrick Williams- Micheal Beasley
PF: Kevin Love- Anthony Tolliver- Nicola Pekovich
C: Anthony Randolph- Darko Milicic

That's one hell of a young core to build around and a fun one to watch too(don't be jealous :D). We can also interchange positions and create mismatches against almost every team.

WITH A COUPLE MORE MOVES AND A NEW HEAD COACH, not 32 win Rambi*ch, the Wolves could emerge out of nowhere, similar to the young Thunder and Grizzlies from a couple years ago.

flclfanman
06-25-2011, 09:42 AM
Let's not forget just a few years ago, before the "Big 3" trade, Boston was the worst team in the league.

Yes, that was an awesome trade (we know, we gave them KG) and they got 1 ring out of it. But now look at Boston, they are going to have to rebuild again. The big 3 are all in their late 30's, and their cap is atrocious.

At least the Wolves are stacked with young, explosive talent for the next decade and have one of the best salary caps in the league. We literally have no contracts over $5 mil.

Winning takes time, we all know that by now. But at least the Wolves are rebuilding the right way, NOW.

In only 2 years, David Kahn has completely overhauled this roster from the absolute garbage of a mess that Kevin McHale left behind. We have a much more talented roster now than a lot of the teams that were in the lottery this year. And we are not even done making moves yet.

David Kahn's additions in only 2 years, currently on our roster:

Ricky Rubio- Jury's still out
Wes JohnsonDissappointing so far
Micheal BeasleyYay an underachieving headcase
Derrick WilliamsIf he or Beasley isn't traded, then :facepalm:
Anthony RandolphOverrated IMO
Martell WebsterWho?
Luke Ridnour Good, but overpaid. thx Kahn!
Darko Milicic :eyebrow:
Anthony TolliverPromising, but he'll need more playtime
Wayne EllingtonWho?

Current Wolves roster:

PG: Ricky Rubio- Luke Ridnour
SG: Wes Johnson- Martell Webster- Wayne Ellington
SF: Derrick Williams- Micheal Beasley
PF: Kevin Love- Anthony Tolliver- Nicola Pekovich
C: Anthony Randolph- Darko Milicic

That's one hell of a young core to build around and a fun one to watch too(don't be jealous :D). We can also interchange positions and create mismatches against almost every team.

WITH A COUPLE MORE MOVES AND A NEW HEAD COACH, not 32 win Rambi*ch, the Wolves could emerge out of nowhere, similar to the young Thunder and Grizzlies from a couple years ago.

A team only goes as far as it's GM/FO allows it. Look at every playoff team and look at the work their GMs put in to make their teams better. Kahn has had some golden opportunities but just cant capitalized. Doesn't help when you draft 3 guards in the first round :eyebrow:

Case in Point: They needed a center, but they refused to draft Kanter @ 2. D-Williams is good, but he doesn't demand the 2 pick, sorry :shrug:

cwilson21
06-25-2011, 11:21 AM
A team only goes as far as it's GM/FO allows it. Look at every playoff team and look at the work their GMs put in to make their teams better. Kahn has had some golden opportunities but just cant capitalized. Doesn't help when you draft 3 guards in the first round :eyebrow:

Case in Point: They needed a center, but they refused to draft Kanter @ 2. D-Williams is good, but he doesn't demand the 2 pick, sorry :shrug:

Um sorry but in this draft, yes he does. This has always been thought of as a 2-player draft as in Irving-Williams. If the Wolves would've drafted Kanter, ppl would've hated on them for not drafting the guy who had the most potential. Sorry but when you only win 17 games, you draft the guy with the highest ceiling and the best chance to be a star and the guy is obviously DWill.

Dash
06-25-2011, 11:33 AM
He is best GM in the NBA since he admitted a mistake.

flea
06-25-2011, 11:51 AM
Kanter is a future bust and Williams will be ready to contribute immediately - he's as close to a sure thing in the NBA draft as it comes. You're literally the only person I've heard say that Kahn should have taken Kanter.

evadatam5150
06-25-2011, 12:16 PM
Simmons is the man. He is funny and often right. Kahn has sucked. But don 't hate on Simmons his columns are one of the only worthwhile things attached to espn.

I can't disagree strongly enough here.. Dude is not funny and isn't right most of the time.. He's a bleeding heart homer who has forgotten one of the biggest reporting tenets of all.. In a nutshell the man has NO objectivity at all..

To each his own..

Raoul Duke
06-25-2011, 12:21 PM
But didn't Kahn also waste a draft pick on a 26 year old because he couldn't be bothered to do so much as google the guy at some point beforehand and take a cursory glance at his profile?

flclfanman
06-25-2011, 01:55 PM
Um sorry but in this draft, yes he does. This has always been thought of as a 2-player draft as in Irving-Williams. If the Wolves would've drafted Kanter, ppl would've hated on them for not drafting the guy who had the most potential. Sorry but when you only win 17 games, you draft the guy with the highest ceiling and the best chance to be a star and the guy is obviously DWill.

Fair, but if Williams becomes Beasley 2.0 and Kanter makes an ASG or 2, He'll have even more egg on his face.

flclfanman
06-25-2011, 02:00 PM
Kanter is a future bust and Williams will be ready to contribute immediately - he's as close to a sure thing in the NBA draft as it comes. You're literally the only person I've heard say that Kahn should have taken Kanter.

So Kanter's a bust but D-Williams has immunity? :eyebrow:

flea
06-25-2011, 02:01 PM
No he doesn't have immunity, but like I said he's the surest bet. Kanter may be good, but I think he'll be a bust.

flclfanman
06-25-2011, 02:04 PM
No he doesn't have immunity, but like I said he's the surest bet. Kanter may be good, but I think he'll be a bust.

Time will tell

topdog
06-25-2011, 02:12 PM
He is best GM in the NBA since he admitted a mistake.

It's about the audio homie-g! I'm not starting a "how good/bad is Kahn" debate. Just trying to bring up a humorous bit of audio, but I forget that being literate is not a requirement of this site.

Raoul Duke
06-25-2011, 02:16 PM
It's about the audio homie-g! I'm not starting a "how good/bad is Kahn" debate. Just trying to bring up a humorous bit of audio, but I forget that being literate is not a requirement of this site.

Dude, there is a very small segment of a 40 minute interview in which he calls Simmons out on a tiny bit of hyperbole, and the rest is Kahn offering explanations for his numerous mistakes. Inviting people to listen to it is the same as inviting them into a discussion about the enigma that is David Kahn.

topdog
06-25-2011, 02:26 PM
Dude, there is a very small segment of a 40 minute interview in which he calls Simmons out on a tiny bit of hyperbole, and the rest is Kahn offering explanations for his numerous mistakes. Inviting people to listen to it is the same as inviting them into a discussion about the enigma that is David Kahn.

The primary mistake BS is stuck on in the rather boring 40 minutes is the Flynn trade. I could have also mentioned the part where Simmons said he liked Love, Rubio, AR and Beasley.

I feel like you are trying to sweep it away as small and insignificant "hyperbole" when Simmons certainly acts as if he is caught and loses composure as he backtacks. He should stick to written articles.

Raoul Duke
06-25-2011, 02:36 PM
The primary mistake BS is stuck on in the rather boring 40 minutes is the Flynn trade. I could have also mentioned the part where Simmons said he liked Love, Rubio, AR and Beasley.

I feel like you are trying to sweep it away as small and insignificant "hyperbole" when Simmons certainly acts as if he is caught and loses composure as he backtacks. He should stick to written articles.

I feel like Minny fans will continually defend this guy despite how inept he has proven to be time and time again, all the while forgetting that he earns millions of dollars for a job he does poorly. There is very little excuse for the whole Flynn debacle. He drafted his "PG of the future" knowing he'd have to wait a year or two and followed that up by drafting a second "PG of the future" who he admits didn't fit the system and was traded two years later for 60 cents on the dollar.

If Kahn had a track record of success, I'd be more patient and let him fix his mistakes, but he doesn't have experience and the mistakes just keep coming. Can a Minny fan tell me whether or not the **** about his 2nd round pick being 26 years old and therefore ineligable for the draft is true? I saw it on a couple of sites and it could very well be blown out of proportion or misreported, but if it's true... that is a total amateur move.

EDIT: God damn this guy (Kahn) is a moron, but you have to admire his unshakable optimism regarding his team. Right? At around the 31 minute mark of the interview he says "I think in a couple years we might be pretty good, we just might, but it's going to take a lot of work". Yeah, bravo buddy. Four years into your tenure is when your fans should expect a product that is worth spending their money on? That is dynamite. This guy is ****ing electric!

SlimKid
06-25-2011, 06:27 PM
I feel like Minny fans will continually defend this guy despite how inept he has proven to be time and time again, all the while forgetting that he earns millions of dollars for a job he does poorly. There is very little excuse for the whole Flynn debacle. He drafted his "PG of the future" knowing he'd have to wait a year or two and followed that up by drafting a second "PG of the future" who he admits didn't fit the system and was traded two years later for 60 cents on the dollar.

If Kahn had a track record of success, I'd be more patient and let him fix his mistakes, but he doesn't have experience and the mistakes just keep coming. Can a Minny fan tell me whether or not the **** about his 2nd round pick being 26 years old and therefore ineligable for the draft is true? I saw it on a couple of sites and it could very well be blown out of proportion or misreported, but if it's true... that is a total amateur move.

EDIT: God damn this guy (Kahn) is a moron, but you have to admire his unshakable optimism regarding his team. Right? At around the 31 minute mark of the interview he says "I think in a couple years we might be pretty good, we just might, but it's going to take a lot of work". Yeah, bravo buddy. Four years into your tenure is when your fans should expect a product that is worth spending their money on? That is dynamite. This guy is ****ing electric!

Uhh, 2 years bro.. I can't think of any GM that's done more in a small market over a 2 year period, considering what the expectation were 2 years ago.. ESPN literally rots peoples brains

Raoul Duke
06-25-2011, 06:29 PM
Uhh, 2 years bro.. I can't think of any GM that's done more in a small market over a 2 year period, considering what the expectation were 2 years ago.. ESPN literally rots peoples brains

He's been on the job for two years, and he's saying that in two more years your team "might be pretty good". Two plus two is four, bro.

Blazers#1Fan
06-25-2011, 07:08 PM
Anybody who hates on Kahn is a idiot they act like there the next best GM or there's is better the guy has turned a team who was rebuilding a few years ago and now has a very good young lineup

he drafted Flynn because he was gonna be there PG of the future then they draft Rubio I can't hate I think anybody would of taken Rubio! Then Flynn turns into damaged goods with a hip injury that's not very good for a PG

Other teams passed on B-Easy then he gets him (an ex #2 pick which 2 year prior) for nothing
And he turns into a great pickup

Now he has Derrick Williams (I think is the best player in the draft) who can play 2-3-some 4 beasley can play the 3 & 4 Love can play the 4 or 5 if I was Kahn I'd try to trade for iguodala for beasley or keep B-Easy he has a team of Lottery picks this team will turn out very good I wouldn't

Darko,Miller
Love
Beasley
Williams
Rubio

If they went after Iguodala for beasley

Darko,Miller
Love
Williams
Iguodala
Rubio

If they trade for Pau Gasol

Love
Gasol
Beasley or Williams
Webster
Rubio

If he can get a Center for cheap he could have a very very good young lineup Thunder ESC

This guy is very smart he has a team of the Future not of the Now

I'm no way shape or form a Twolves fan or Kahn fan but you gotta respect his moves only if he kept Lawson for a year then traded him