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Mile High Champ
06-24-2011, 02:13 PM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last three years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 3 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best

2011 SG Rankings

1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)



2010 Off-Season SG Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwyane Wade
3) Brandon Roy
4) Joe Johnson
5) Manu Ginobili
6) Monta Ellis
7) Ray Allen
8) Stephen Jackson
9) O.J. Mayo
10) Jason Richardson

2009 Off-Season SG Rankings:

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwayne Wade
3) Brandon Roy
4) Joe Johnson
5) Vince Carter
6) Manu Ginobili
7) Ray Allen
8) Kevin Martin
9) Ben Gordon
10) Richard Hamilton

2008 Off-Season SG rankings:

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwayne Wade
3) Tracy McGrady
4) Allen Iverson
5) Manu Ginobili
5) Vince Carter
7) Joe Johnson
8) Ray Allen
9) Brandon Roy
10) Kevin Martin

Crackadalic
06-24-2011, 02:21 PM
D-wade for me

Mile High Champ
06-24-2011, 02:22 PM
Here is a good breakdown of 6 players on this list..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=wadedw01&y1=2011&p2=bryanko01&y2=2011&p3=ellismo01&y3=2011&p4=allenra02&y4=2011&p5=martike02&y5=2011&p6=ginobma01&y6=2011

Pretty safe to say that Brandon Roy will not be in the top 10 this year. He was number 3 last year.

ManRam
06-24-2011, 02:23 PM
Kobe's time on top is 100% over. No more debate.

Baller1
06-24-2011, 02:23 PM
Wade.

Ezio
06-24-2011, 02:24 PM
Wade will run with this one.

Baller1
06-24-2011, 02:24 PM
Harden better make this list.

Mile High Champ
06-24-2011, 02:24 PM
Kobe's time on top is 100% over. No more debate.

Agreed, seems like it is for sure over. 10-0 already.

Sadds The Gr8
06-24-2011, 02:25 PM
easily Wade right now.

Sadds The Gr8
06-24-2011, 02:25 PM
Agreed, seems like it is for sure over. 10-0 already.

nope. U know the wave of Kobe stans is soon to come...

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 02:26 PM
Wade should run away early here

Mile High Champ
06-24-2011, 02:27 PM
If you want to compare just from an offensive stand point, you could argue that Kevin Martin was just as good last year as Wade. Now that is saying something.

Slimsim
06-24-2011, 02:27 PM
Wade

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 02:29 PM
If you want to compare just from an offensive stand point, you could argue that Kevin Martin was just as good last year as Wade. Now that is saying something.

Martin is the most efficient perimeter scorer by a mile. But he does literally nothing else. Hence why he isn't a top 3-4 SG

Mile High Champ
06-24-2011, 02:30 PM
Martin is the most efficient perimeter scorer by a mile. But he does literally nothing else. Hence why he isn't a top 3-4 SG

If only he could play defense. I would however maybe put Martin around that 4-5 Range. Only time will tell what the poll shows.

29$JerZ
06-24-2011, 02:33 PM
Wade

PatsSoxKnicks
06-24-2011, 02:34 PM
Wade easily but I have no doubt that this thread will be flooded with Kobe homers who'll make it an interesting race. Kind of sad that most posters can't vote with any sense of objectivity.

I hope I'm wrong though.

And any Laker fan who votes for Wade, you deserve props because of the peer pressure from your fellow Laker fans.

Jetsguy
06-24-2011, 02:35 PM
We should just do Wade 1 and Kobe 2 and start from there...

kingkenny01
06-24-2011, 02:36 PM
i voted stephen jackson just to be different

Khalifa21
06-24-2011, 02:37 PM
Dwyane Wade

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 02:38 PM
I actually love that you make these polls public so we can justify ridiculous picks

PatsSoxKnicks
06-24-2011, 02:39 PM
I actually love that you make these polls public so we can justify ridiculous picks

x2

VCaintdead17
06-24-2011, 02:42 PM
Here is a good breakdown of 6 players on this list..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=wadedw01&y1=2011&p2=bryanko01&y2=2011&p3=ellismo01&y3=2011&p4=allenra02&y4=2011&p5=martike02&y5=2011&p6=ginobma01&y6=2011

Pretty safe to say that Brandon Roy will not be in the top 10 this year. He was number 3 last year.


I would take Gordon over Allen and Ellis.


And, so sad to see how Roys career has plummeted.

DR_1
06-24-2011, 02:43 PM
Kobe. Five rings. 'Nough said. And Kobe doesnt disappear in the Playoffs like Wade did against Chicago. Wade is so overrated on these forums.

mp3
06-24-2011, 02:45 PM
love kobe but got to give wade the nod finally.

NYK_kidd77
06-24-2011, 02:45 PM
Wade

THE GIPPER
06-24-2011, 02:46 PM
Kobe. Five rings. 'Nough said.

Cool. Too bad we're talking about the present and not the past.

macc
06-24-2011, 02:47 PM
Wade, but not by as much as people are making it out to be. I think a good argument can be made for Kobe as well.

Kobe is the better lock down defender

Kobe is the better 3pt and mid range shooter

Kobe is better in the post

D Wade has more explosion at this point in his career and the game comes easier to him, that's why I give him the slight edge here. Kobe has to work a little harder for his shots these days.

D Wade is one of the best w/ changing his speeds in the two step gather to the basket. Actually he has prob the best two step gather I've ever seen. Rondo is right there with him on that as well.

DR_1
06-24-2011, 02:48 PM
Cool. Too bad we're talking about the present and not the past.

Read the rest of my post.

Chacarron
06-24-2011, 02:48 PM
D-Wade.

Cano4prez
06-24-2011, 02:49 PM
Wade easily

Mile High Champ
06-24-2011, 02:50 PM
I actually love that you make these polls public so we can justify ridiculous picks

I think the first year we did not make them public at first but since than we have always done it. I love it and it just shows you who the homers are.

macc
06-24-2011, 02:50 PM
Kobe. Five rings. 'Nough said. And Kobe doesnt disappear in the Playoffs like Wade did against Chicago. Wade is so overrated on these forums.



If we were debating an "all time great" argument, Kobe would win hands down. This debate is for the best sg going into next Season. Kobe is still great but in more limited min. Hense the reason he plays five min less per game then D Wade does.

I personally don't think Wade is overrated. I believe he's arguablly the best player in the NBA. The Kobe vs Bron debate is pretty much over. The Wade vs Bron debate has great arguments on both sides.

Sadds The Gr8
06-24-2011, 02:50 PM
Wade, but not by as much as people are making it out to be. I think a good argument can be made for Kobe as well.

Kobe is the better lock down defender

Kobe is the better 3pt and mid range shooter

Kobe is better in the post

D Wade has more explosion at this point in his career and the game comes easier to him, that's why I give him the slight edge here. Kobe has to work a little harder for his shots these days.

D Wade is one of the best w/ changing his speeds in the two step gather to the basket. Actually he has prob the best two step gather I've ever seen. Rondo is right there with him on that as well.
right now? no he isnt

UKblazers
06-24-2011, 02:51 PM
Gotta be Wade at this point, i think gordon is going to really breakout this year though provided he stays healthy.

AIsixersFK
06-24-2011, 02:51 PM
Lol @ whoever voted For Stephen Jackson

Hustlenomics
06-24-2011, 02:51 PM
inb4 5 rings

Giraffes Rule
06-24-2011, 02:53 PM
1: Dwayne Wade
2: Kobe Bryant
3: Manu Ginobili
4: Kevin Martin

Need to spend some more time to think about 5-10, but my 1-4 is set.

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 02:54 PM
Kobe. Five rings. 'Nough said. And Kobe doesnt disappear in the Playoffs like Wade did against Chicago. Wade is so overrated on these forums.

haha, and here they come. Your first three sentences are exactly why some of these polls are such a joke.

LTBaByyy
06-24-2011, 02:54 PM
Wade
Bryant
Manu
Johnson
Ellis
Gordon



The rest

Rivera
06-24-2011, 02:55 PM
dwayne wade

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 02:55 PM
Lol @ whoever voted For Stephen Jackson

well, in his defense, he simply stated he picked him to be different haha

macc
06-24-2011, 02:55 PM
right now? no he isnt



Yes he is. You prob think Wade is the better defender because you watch his blocks on ESPN. Wade has more explosion than Kobe to get those come from behind blocks but if you watch alot of Miami games you'll see Wade gets shook rather easily. Kobe not so much. Kobe has great lateral quickness and he's been praised for that his entire career.

UKblazers
06-24-2011, 02:56 PM
1: Dwayne Wade
2: Kobe Bryant
3: Manu Ginobili
4: Kevin Martin

Need to spend some more time to think about 5-10, but my 1-4 is set.

Man i watched several games this season where kevin martin wasn't even on the court in crunch time, no way is he top 4.

haggis
06-24-2011, 02:56 PM
Diane Wade.

DoJoTheSlasher
06-24-2011, 02:57 PM
Dwyane Wade easily...

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 02:57 PM
I chose Kobe but in reality wade had a great playoff run so I see why people picked him! But to say it's not even close is laughable because it is it can easily be wade 1a Kobe 1b and Vice versa! It's all good my boy Kobe will be back at number one by next season sure he will be one year older but the lockout and him finally being injury free for the first time in 3-4 years will help him alot!

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 02:58 PM
inb4 5 rings

haha, you're too late my friend

lakersrock
06-24-2011, 02:59 PM
Skillset - Kobe
Defense - Kobe
Shooting - Kobe
Athleticism - Wade

I'd still take Kobe. Wade is about as close as he can be without passing him, but due to Kobe having an otherworldly amount of tricks on offense and clearly being the better defender (not shot blocker, defender), I'm giving it to Kobe.

If his knees give any more at all this year (assuming they play), Wade gets it next year.

Cano4prez
06-24-2011, 03:01 PM
Skillset - Kobe
Defense - Kobe
Shooting - Kobe
Athleticism - Wade

I'd still take Kobe. Wade is about as close as he can be without passing him, but due to Kobe having an otherworldly amount of tricks on offense and clearly being the better defender (not shot blocker, defender), I'm giving it to Kobe.

If his knees give any more at all this year (assuming they play), Wade gets it next year.

:rolleyes:

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 03:01 PM
I chose Kobe but in reality wade had a great playoff run so I see why people picked him! But to say it's not even close is laughable because it is it can easily be wade 1a Kobe 1b and Vice versa! It's all good my boy Kobe will be back at number one by next season sure he will be one year older but the lockout and him finally being injury free for the first time in 3-4 years will help him alot!

People picked Wade because he played more minutes, had better numbers, better advanced stats, and was the better two way player this season. He also went a lot further than Kobe in the playoffs.

Look, we know you Kobe lovers are just clinging on to anything you can at this point (and I don't mean you specifically). He has had an amazing career, and obviously his career trumps Wade's right now, and may forever trump it. But RIGHT NOW, TODAY, and THIS YEAR, Wade is simply better as Kobe has started to decline over the past couple of years.

1310 games on a player's knees, with 12 seasons moving out of round 1 of the playoffs, will do that to anyone. You can't beat father time. Its why Duncan should not be on the top 5-6 PF list when the time comes to vote. Father time.

rickshaw
06-24-2011, 03:02 PM
Kobe. Five rings. 'Nough said. And Kobe doesnt disappear in the Playoffs like Wade did against Chicago. Wade is so overrated on these forums.

If Wade disappeared against chicago what did kobe do against dallas?

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 03:02 PM
Dwyane Wade easily...

Pau gasol> Dirk easily...




See what i did There!!

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 03:04 PM
wade
kobe
ellis
martin
Manu

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 03:05 PM
And after next year Iman Shumpert lmao :P

DR_1
06-24-2011, 03:05 PM
If Wade disappeared against chicago what did kobe do against dallas?
He actually played well. Nobody else was doing anything on the Lakers in that series though.

Sadds The Gr8
06-24-2011, 03:05 PM
Yes he is. You prob think Wade is the better defender because you watch his blocks on ESPN. Wade has more explosion than Kobe to get those come from behind blocks but if you watch alot of Miami games you'll see Wade gets shook rather easily. Kobe not so much. Kobe has great lateral quickness and he's been praised for that his entire career.

at this point Wade is a better defender than Kobe...Kobe got shook rather easily alot this season as well...he's just not as good defensively as he used to be. the fact that he got all-nba defense was a joke.

Mile High Champ
06-24-2011, 03:06 PM
I would take Gordon over Allen and Ellis.


And, so sad to see how Roys career has plummeted.

Advanced statistics would disagree with you big time. Especially about Gordon over Allen.

rickshaw
06-24-2011, 03:07 PM
He actually played well. Nobody else was doing anything on the Lakers in that series though.

so kobe played better vs dallas than wade did vs chicago?

DR_1
06-24-2011, 03:08 PM
1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Manu
4. Allen
5. JJ
6. Monta
7. Gordon
8. Kevin Martin
9. Stephen Jackson
10. OJ Mayo

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 03:09 PM
Skillset - Kobe
Defense - Kobe
Shooting - Kobe
Athleticism - Wade

I'd still take Kobe. Wade is about as close as he can be without passing him, but due to Kobe having an otherworldly amount of tricks on offense and clearly being the better defender (not shot blocker, defender), I'm giving it to Kobe.

If his knees give any more at all this year (assuming they play), Wade gets it next year.

UMMMMHh Wade has the better skillset. and wade has surpassed kobe sorry

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 03:09 PM
People picked Wade because he played more minutes, had better numbers, better advanced stats, and was the better two way player this season. He also went a lot further than Kobe in the playoffs.

Look, we know you Kobe lovers are just clinging on to anything you can at this point (and I don't mean you specifically). He has had an amazing career, and obviously his career trumps Wade's right now, and may forever trump it. But RIGHT NOW, TODAY, and THIS YEAR, Wade is simply better as Kobe has started to decline over the past couple of years.

1310 games on a player's knees, with 12 seasons moving out of round 1 of the playoffs, will do that to anyone. You can't beat father time. Its why Duncan should not be on the top 5-6 PF list when the time comes to vote. Father time.

Yes i get your points i never said anything about career wise though because i know kobe ***** on wade! But yeah your right wade had better stats playing 5 more minutes which can help out alot I don't like at advanced stats those are just for stat junkies! So I don't mind people picking wade, and no we aren't just clinging on anything we have because we truly believe Kobe is still better(when healthy) put it this way if Kobe was healthy and didn't have a week knee and bum ankle would he have done alot more for the lakers last year? Well we will never know but hey guess what next season Kobe will be all of that, he will be healthy have a stronger knee and will have a healthy ankle! Don't worry hawkeye I ain't mad at the people picking wade in this poll but next year I'm guaranteeing Kobe has a better season then wade and therefore he will be back on top of this list!

DR_1
06-24-2011, 03:09 PM
so kobe played better vs dallas than wade did vs chicago?

Yep

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 03:12 PM
at this point Wade is a better defender than Kobe...Kobe got shook rather easily alot this season as well...he's just not as good defensively as he used to be. the fact that he got all-nba defense was a joke.

I do agree with you that Kobe getting 1st team all defense was a joke because clearly he didn't defend very well, but all that had to do with him having a weak knee and ankle, but still that doesn't mean Kobe isn't the better of the 2 because he is, wade is a better shot blocker though

Giraffes Rule
06-24-2011, 03:14 PM
Yep

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/gamelog/2011/

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01/gamelog/2011/

Not so much.

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 03:17 PM
UMMMMHh Wade has the better skillset. and wade has surpassed kobe sorry

Wade a better skillset then Kobe?? I don't think anyone has the skillset of Kobe the closest is probably Carmelo and it's not that close! I mean who has the fade away j the moves to just shake and bake people without crossing them over, he has a post up game and forgive me for this but damn he's the only player right now with a ****en hook shot and he can make them both with his right or left hand! he has everything that a young player wishes they had!

I got a question though, why do alot of Knicks fans not like Kobe maybe not everywhere but just on psd I mean is it because he didn't go play for your team when he had the chance?

theheatles
06-24-2011, 03:17 PM
right now wade is pretty much better than kobe in everything except 3pt and ft%s

gaughan333
06-24-2011, 03:18 PM
I go with wade here.

DR_1
06-24-2011, 03:19 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/gamelog/2011/

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01/gamelog/2011/

Not so much.

These stats are in favor of Kobe if match up the series' i was talking about.

AndyfromNeptune
06-24-2011, 03:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhKpTVSkukI

nuff said

LTBaByyy
06-24-2011, 03:21 PM
JJ is still the 4th best SG

Dont look at his contract yall, look at the on court skills!!!

I might give Ellis 4th but if Joe Johnson is lower than 5th yall are trippin

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 03:23 PM
Yes i get your points i never said anything about career wise though because i know kobe ***** on wade! But yeah your right wade had better stats playing 5 more minutes which can help out alot I don't like at advanced stats those are just for stat junkies! So I don't mind people picking wade, and no we aren't just clinging on anything we have because we truly believe Kobe is still better(when healthy) put it this way if Kobe was healthy and didn't have a week knee and bum ankle would he have done alot more for the lakers last year? Well we will never know but hey guess what next season Kobe will be all of that, he will be healthy have a stronger knee and will have a healthy ankle! Don't worry hawkeye I ain't mad at the people picking wade in this poll but next year I'm guaranteeing Kobe has a better season then wade and therefore he will be back on top of this list!

I have been hearing that for 3 years now. First it was the reason Kobe was still better than LeBron. Now its the reason Kobe is still better than Wade.

Did you ever think, that a player who has made the playoffs in 13 of his 15 years, with extensive playoff runs, isn't really injured? Its called wear and tear. KG and Duncan are going thru it. Shaq went thru it. Every player does when they play that many games and that many minutes.

You can guarantee me all you want dude. I have no idea who the best SG will be at the end of next season. Age, and production wise, Wade projects to be #1 again. But it could be someone else. If I am a betting man, I don't think it will be Kobe. Another 80 games on those knees, and playoffs? Not going to help him

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 03:24 PM
Wade a better skillset then Kobe?? I don't think anyone has the skillset of Kobe the closest is probably Carmelo and it's not that close! I mean who has the fade away j the moves to just shake and bake people without crossing them over, he has a post up game and forgive me for this but damn he's the only player right now with a ****en hook shot and he can make them both with his right or left hand! he has everything that a young player wishes they had!

I got a question though, why do alot of Knicks fans not like Kobe maybe not everywhere but just on psd I mean is it because he didn't go play for your team when he had the chance?

I Do not hate kobe. Skill wise i think wade at this point is the better scorer, rebounder, Kobe still has defense and clutch. Not saying it isnt close but i think wade is better, ANd i dislike wade

Lakers + Giants
06-24-2011, 03:26 PM
Has to be wade, even the biggest laker homer can't say kobe. . .

after Wade and Kobe there is a huge drop in talent, LMAO.

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 03:30 PM
I have been hearing that for 3 years now.[/B] First it was the reason Kobe was still better than LeBron. Now its the reason Kobe is still better than Wade.

Did you ever think, that a player who has made the playoffs in 13 of his 15 years, with extensive playoff runs, isn't really injured? Its called wear and tear. KG and Duncan are going thru it. Shaq went thru it. Every player does when they play that many games and that many minutes.

You can guarantee me all you want dude. I have no idea who the best SG will be at the end of next season. Age, and production wise, Wade projects to be #1 again. But it could be someone else. If I am a betting man, I don't think it will be Kobe. Another 80 games on those knees, and playoffs? Not going to help him


Dont speak out of your *** hawkeye no one has been saying this for 3 years now not even last year because Kobe was getting us to the promise land with a good knee and ankle!

This year his knee and ankle hurt his play alot but come on to say 3 years now?? I don't know where you got those 3 years from!

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 03:33 PM
I have been hearing that for 3 years now. First it was the reason Kobe was still better than LeBron. Now its the reason Kobe is still better than Wade.

Did you ever think, that a player who has made the playoffs in 13 of his 15 years, with extensive playoff runs, isn't really injured? Its called wear and tear. KG and Duncan are going thru it. Shaq went thru it. Every player does when they play that many games and that many minutes.

You can guarantee me all you want dude. I have no idea who the best SG will be at the end of next season. Age, and production wise, Wade projects to be #1 again. But it could be someone else. If I am a betting man, I don't think it will be Kobe. Another 80 games on those knees, and playoffs? Not going to help him

This.

gaughan333
06-24-2011, 03:36 PM
Dont speak out of your *** hawkeye no one has been saying this for 3 years now not even last year because Kobe was getting us to the promise land with a good knee and ankle!

This year his knee and ankle hurt his play alot but come on to say 3 years now?? I don't know where you got those 3 years from!

People have been saying it on these forums.

Slug3
06-24-2011, 03:36 PM
Yes i get your points i never said anything about career wise though because i know kobe ***** on wade! But yeah your right wade had better stats playing 5 more minutes which can help out alot I don't like at advanced stats those are just for stat junkies! So I don't mind people picking wade, and no we aren't just clinging on anything we have because we truly believe Kobe is still better(when healthy) put it this way if Kobe was healthy and didn't have a week knee and bum ankle would he have done alot more for the lakers last year? Well we will never know but hey guess what next season Kobe will be all of that, he will be healthy have a stronger knee and will have a healthy ankle! Don't worry hawkeye I ain't mad at the people picking wade in this poll but next year I'm guaranteeing Kobe has a better season then wade and therefore he will be back on top of this list!

You also have to think that Wade played more minutes because he is still younger than Kobe and doesnt have as many seasons undeer him as Kobe does. For the last few years Kobe has been real deep into the playoffs/finals with not much rest afterwards. That is always going to make it so your injuries can never fully heal. Not taking anything away from Kobe, but Just like MJ, Shaq and the other greats who were at the top of the league, they always come down. Father time has never lost and Kobe is starting to meet up with him. I believe he has a good 2 or 3 high level years left in him, but I believe last year Wade was the better SG. and really the years before when Kobe was ranked higher the excuse was because his team was better. That is no longer the case anymore.

allSUAVE
06-24-2011, 03:38 PM
its an opinion nobody can explain why Wade is better than kobe

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 03:39 PM
People have been saying it on these forums.

Is that a fact because if it is i would like some evidence!

Giraffes Rule
06-24-2011, 03:40 PM
its an opinion nobody can explain why Wade is better than kobe

The stats aren't opinions, and almost every single stat favors Wade.

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 03:41 PM
Dont speak out of your *** hawkeye no one has been saying this for 3 years now not even last year because Kobe was getting us to the promise land with a good knee and ankle!

This year his knee and ankle hurt his play alot but come on to say 3 years now?? I don't know where you got those 3 years from!

no, they have man. It was the reason Kobe was still better than LeBron for the last 2 years, despite that not being true at all. Teams win rings, not players. I just can't fathom how that escapes people's minds.

So Dirk is currently the best player in the game according to many. This is flawed, yet a true opinion of some that have no ability how to measure individual players in a team sport

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 03:41 PM
its an opinion nobody can explain why Wade is better than kobe

This

Besides stats there is nothing that proves wade is better

gaughan333
06-24-2011, 03:41 PM
Is that a fact because if it is i would like some evidence!

I'm not going back two + years to look for posts. You can do it if you want, but from someone who has been around these boards for a while, it has been brought up a lot.

sixer04fan
06-24-2011, 03:42 PM
Kobe is gonna catch up... Wade got the early lead because the east coast was up first today. It's almost 1pm in the west coast now, the Lakers fans will start coming out in full force.

allSUAVE
06-24-2011, 03:43 PM
The stats aren't opinions, and almost every single stat favors Wade.

ok so who's better Chancey or Deron Williams ?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=billuch01&y1=2011&p2=willide01&y2=2011

Mile High Champ
06-24-2011, 03:43 PM
How anyone is arguing Kobe over Wade after this season is beyond me. Kobe fan's need to let go.

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 03:43 PM
Is that a fact because if it is i would like some evidence!

you haven't been here long. Go dig up threads from the past 3 years if you wish. Experienced long time posters here have read it for 3 years.

rickshaw
06-24-2011, 03:44 PM
This

Besides stats there is nothing that proves wade is better

yeah besides the numbers that show who played better, name something wade does better. i hate when people use stats instead of team accomplishments, which are much better to use when analyzing individuals

Giraffes Rule
06-24-2011, 03:46 PM
ok so who's better Chancey or Deron Williams ?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=billuch01&y1=2011&p2=willide01&y2=2011

Deron Williams, and the stats back that up.

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 03:46 PM
How can people say kobe is better then wade, Dont get me wrong I like Kobe and dislike wade but Kobe isnt the same and wade just keeps gettin Better

Slug3
06-24-2011, 03:47 PM
yeah besides the numbers that show who played better, name something wade does better. i hate when people use stats instead of team accomplishments, which are much better to use when analyzing individuals

Really, team accomplishments? Miami finals, LA 2nd round. Miami more wins, Miami beat LA twice. Miami had more all stars this year. I think Miami won the team accomplishments.

Giraffes Rule
06-24-2011, 03:47 PM
Really, team accomplishments? Miami finals, LA 2nd round. Miami more wins, Miami beat LA twice. Miami had more all stars this year. I think Miami won the team accomplishments.

He was being sarcastic.

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 03:47 PM
ok so who's better Chancey or Deron Williams ?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=billuch01&y1=2011&p2=willide01&y2=2011

Deron williams Your point??

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 03:47 PM
yeah besides the numbers that show who played better, name something wade does better. i hate when people use stats instead of team accomplishments, which are much better to use when analyzing individuals

edit- I just realized you were being facetious

Slug3
06-24-2011, 03:48 PM
He was being sarcastic.

LOL i seriouslt could not tell, haha. Doesnt help being on your phone either and trying to read all the posts. Just trying to kill time at work.

gaughan333
06-24-2011, 03:49 PM
rickshaw's post went over a lot of people's heads I see.

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 03:49 PM
edit- I just realized you were being facetious

I believe he was making fun of the guy that said nothing besides stats proves wade is better then kobe

allSUAVE
06-24-2011, 03:49 PM
Deron williams Your point??

that shows that Dwill is alil better much debatable.

Giraffes Rule
06-24-2011, 03:50 PM
that shows that Dwill is alil better much debatable.

How so?

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 03:51 PM
that shows that Dwill is alil better much debatable.

Love billups but its not debatable. Deron williams has over 4.5 more assist 4.5 more points, deron williams penetrates better

allSUAVE
06-24-2011, 03:52 PM
How so?

read the **** and explain to me what makes advanced stats a reliable source to who's the better player

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 03:52 PM
no, they have man. It was the reason Kobe was still better than LeBron for the last 2 years, despite that not being true at all. Teams win rings, not players. I just can't fathom how that escapes people's minds.

So Dirk is currently the best player in the game according to many. This is flawed, yet a true opinion of some that have no ability how to measure individual players in a team sport

Yes teams win championships right so how in the world do the 1 and 2 players in the NBA according to some of you don't win a ring especially with another top 20 player on their team and a solid bench??? Come on how can these guys be considered the best? Explain to me that, but yet how can Kobe take a team with an injury prone center and not 1 top 12-15 player according to psd and a average bench to 3 finals and 2 championships???? Your just making your argument worse here!

Chi StateOfMind
06-24-2011, 03:53 PM
Wade

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 03:53 PM
Yes teams win championships right so how in the world do the 1 and 2 players in the NBA according to some of you don't win a ring especially with another top 20 player on their team and a solid bench??? Come on how can these guys be considered the best? Explain to me that, but yet how can Kobe take a team with an injury prone center and not 1 top 12-15 player according to psd and a average bench to 3 finals and 2 championships???? Your just making your argument worse here!

Heat have three players that are there team. La has size bench and kobe , dont kid yourself its over Wade> kobe i hate it too Because i like kobe but kobe isnt the best sg anymore :( and gasol is top 15

pd1dish
06-24-2011, 03:55 PM
prior to this year i would have voted Kobe, but he has passed his prime and Wade has surpassed him as the best SG in the NBA. however, during Kobe's prime, i think he is on a whole other level than Wade is at his prime.

Slug3
06-24-2011, 03:56 PM
Yes teams win championships right so how in the world do the 1 and 2 players in the NBA according to some of you don't win a ring especially with another top 20 player on their team and a solid bench??? Come on how can these guys be considered the best? Explain to me that, but yet how can Kobe take a team with an injury prone center and not 1 top 12-15 player according to psd and a average bench to 3 finals and 2 championships???? Your just making your argument worse here!

Maybe cause Dallas was pretty damn good. I mean Miami did win 2 more games against them then LA did.

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 03:56 PM
Yes teams win championships right so how in the world do the 1 and 2 players in the NBA according to some of you don't win a ring especially with another top 20 player on their team and a solid bench??? Come on how can these guys be considered the best? Explain to me that, but yet how can Kobe take a team with an injury prone center and not 1 top 12-15 player according to psd and a average bench to 3 finals and 2 championships???? Your just making your argument worse here!

because the better TEAM won. And a solid bench? haha. ok

Kobe's roster support has been the best collectively over the past 14 years, so don't bother getting into that debate.

Again, by your definition, Dirk is better than Kobe is what you are now moving into. And I know you don't believe that. You have to be more consistent in your arguments man.

TheRunKiller
06-24-2011, 03:57 PM
why isn't Keith Bogans on this list? :pity:

TheRunKiller
06-24-2011, 03:58 PM
Seriously, Wade easily

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 03:58 PM
why isn't Keith Bogans on this list? :pity:

Him and fields should be in the poll :(

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 03:59 PM
prior to this year i would have voted Kobe, but he has passed his prime and Wade has surpassed him as the best SG in the NBA. however, during Kobe's prime, i think he is on a whole other level than Wade is at his prime.

I don't. Kobe's all time legacy and ranking comes from sustained dominance. I can honestly say I don't think there was more than maybe one season where I thought Kobe was the best player in the NBA. But the mere fact that he has been top 2-5 for so freakin long is why his all time ranking will be top 10

TheRunKiller
06-24-2011, 04:00 PM
Him and fields should be in the poll :(

I was joking about Bogans but Fields should be on this list for sure

Swashcuff
06-24-2011, 04:01 PM
2008 A.I. was #4 now :cry:

Swashcuff
06-24-2011, 04:01 PM
As for 2011 Dwyane Wade no question in my mind.

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 04:02 PM
I was joking about Bogans but Fields should be on this list for sure

I know lol But nah fields dissappered lol Its ok hes young.

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 04:03 PM
Heat have three players that are there team. La has size bench and kobe , dont kid yourself its over Wade> kobe i hate it too Because i like kobe but kobe isnt the best sg anymore :( and gasol is top 15

Yeah we had bigs except Bynum Could barely walk in 2 of the 3 finals and barely played and he didn't play in 1 and the bench was average at best our bench was one of the best in 08' when we lost to Boston but after that our bench was average at best! But hey shouldn't skill and being the top 2 players in the game beat size??

Avenged
06-24-2011, 04:04 PM
Just wondering for the people that voted for Kobe, how many if you are Laker fans? Because I only count a handful that I recognize. The rest seem to be from other fan bases.

Anyway, it's Wade for me then Kobe but lets not act like it's "Wade and it's not even close". :rolleyes:

Swashcuff
06-24-2011, 04:05 PM
RaidersLakers24 do you really want to go down this road again?

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 04:05 PM
Maybe cause Dallas was pretty damn good. I mean Miami did win 2 more games against them then LA did.

Like I said gasol pussied out the bench sucked *** only players who gave a damn were Bynum and Kobe! But those are just excuses so I should stop, but if Dallas would've played the lakers lady year no way in hell they win!

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 04:06 PM
Yeah we had bigs except Bynum Could barely walk in 2 of the 3 finals and barely played and he didn't play in 1 and the bench was average at best our bench was one of the best in 08' when we lost to Boston but after that our bench was average at best! But hey shouldn't skill and being the top 2 players in the game beat size??

A TEAM!!! wins championships. Dont get me wrong heat team is good but The lakers have a top 5 center, a top 5 pf 2nd best sg in the league a great bench with a near allstar coming off the bench, comeon think about it the laker team was stacked. Wade is better then kobe one day youll see this.

Giraffes Rule
06-24-2011, 04:07 PM
read the **** and explain to me what makes advanced stats a reliable source to who's the better player

Maybe you just don't understand advanced stats. Per game stats aren't completely irrelevant, and Deron's blows Chancey out of the water. Advanced stats tell you how they get those per game stats, and while Chancey shoots more efficiently he just does not match up to Deron at all right now. It also doesn't take a genius to know that Deron was on an awful team with no support, and was also injured for the later parts of the season.

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 04:08 PM
you want to say la benched sucked look at the knicks bench and stfu lol

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 04:09 PM
I don't. Kobe's all time legacy and ranking comes from sustained dominance. I can honestly say I don't think there was more than maybe one season where I thought Kobe was the best player in the NBA. But the mere fact that he has been top 2-5 for so freakin long is why his all time ranking will be top 10

Correction top 5 maybe top 3 after he wins 1 more championship and hits the 30k point mark!! Yes he will be better then your beloved Larry bird he probably already is viewed as > bird! And you have tour opinion but that doesn't change the fact the for the last 5 plus years NBA players have chosen Kobe as the best in the league! An IT also doesn't change the fact that many people outside of psd still think Kobe is the best! Wade will win this poll it's understandable but the way people talk about Kobe nowadays is crazy

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 04:10 PM
Never seen someone love kobe as much as this guy

adidas2307
06-24-2011, 04:12 PM
Has to be Wade. As much I dislike the guy, he is one hell of a player.

Hugbees
06-24-2011, 04:13 PM
wow just realized the league is kinda lacking talent in this position..Back in the 90's early 00's it was the deepest. Now it's SF, there must be something in the water..

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 04:17 PM
A TEAM!!! wins championships. Dont get me wrong heat team is good but The lakers have a top 5 center, a top 5 pf 2nd best sg in the league a great bench with a near allstar coming off the bench, comeon think about it the laker team was stacked. Wade is better then kobe one day youll see this.

Lakers have a great bench?? Since when? Only player good on our bench was LO and he even quit on us against Dallas, artest was trash all season long for crying out loud fisher is a liability he can't guard for **** and he hurts us more then helps,Bynum is great when healthy I'll give you that but during the playoffs besides this year e could barely walk and barely played so why even include him?? Gasol just flat out emberrased himself out there and yes he is a top 5 pf and when he wants to #2 in the league but I mean there were about 10 pf who did better then him in the playoffs! Idk how you can lose when you have 2 top 5 players and 1 top 2 player on your team??

Substitute Kobe instead of Lebron and Kobe wins the championship for Miami! He wouldn't have stood there the 4th quarter and watched his team lose the lead to Dallas

Swashcuff
06-24-2011, 04:18 PM
Correction top 5 maybe top 3 after he wins 1 more championship and hits the 30k point mark!! Yes he will be better then your beloved Larry bird he probably already is viewed as > bird! And you have tour opinion but that doesn't change the fact the for the last 5 plus years NBA players have chosen Kobe as the best in the league! An IT also doesn't change the fact that many people outside of psd still think Kobe is the best! Wade will win this poll it's understandable but the way people talk about Kobe nowadays is crazy

I can guarentee you that you go to any non Laker forum and they'll ALL say Kobe. Go view every forum you can a lot that I have viewed have the Kobe vs Wade debate. They ALL go Wade.

Because an ESPN vote said Kobe (the most favored superstar in the league) said Kobe is the best player says NOTHING. Those are voted on by fair weather and a great deal of none basketball fans. Like I said before I remember a couple years ago Derek Jeter was voted as the best player in all of baseball in one of those polls, the mere fact that he was even included was a shame much less the fact that he won.

They voted Kobe's way because of the fact that all of America and also internationally heat players are hated. Kobe is no longer the best SG in the game get over it.

I got over the fact that Allen Iverson was no longer a starting quality player. You guys need to realize that Kobe isn't God and he could be surpassed.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-24-2011, 04:18 PM
Wade. I hope this makes people shut up about Kobe being a top 5 NBA player.

Avenged
06-24-2011, 04:18 PM
My list of SG's consists of:

1. Wade
2. Kobe
3. Manu
4. Kevin Martin
5. Monta Ellis
6. Eric Gordon
7. Joe Johnson
8. Ray Allen
9. James Harden
10. Jason Richardson

Not sure if Im missing anyone.. But Stephen Jackson doesn't make my top 10.

Greet
06-24-2011, 04:19 PM
You know what, I told myself I wasn't going to vote in any of these after Derrick Rose got the #2 PG in the NBA (LOL), but I did vote and I was just assuming Kobe would win because this because the NBA forum is full of...we'll I won't say it. GOOD JOB GUYS!!! <3

Lakers + Giants
06-24-2011, 04:19 PM
Just wondering for the people that voted for Kobe, how many if you are Laker fans? Because I only count a handful that I recognize. The rest seem to be from other fan bases.

Anyway, it's Wade for me then Kobe but lets not act like it's "Wade and it's not even close". :rolleyes:

Exactly how i feel. I too voted for wade, but just because kobe is old now. It's not the same as wade just being better, it's that kobe is just too old now and has too much milage. That's why i have no problem admitting wade is better than kobe.

nycsports2
06-24-2011, 04:20 PM
kobe

LTBaByyy
06-24-2011, 04:23 PM
I see all the Lakers fans coming in here tonight and moving Kobe ahead of Wade

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 04:24 PM
Lakers have a great bench?? Since when? Only player good on our bench was LO and he even quit on us against Dallas, artest was trash all season long for crying out loud fisher is a liability he can't guard for **** and he hurts us more then helps,Bynum is great when healthy I'll give you that but during the playoffs besides this year e could barely walk and barely played so why even include him?? Gasol just flat out emberrased himself out there and yes he is a top 5 pf and when he wants to #2 in the league but I mean there were about 10 pf who did better then him in the playoffs! Idk how you can lose when you have 2 top 5 players and 1 top 2 player on your team??

Substitute Kobe instead of Lebron and Kobe wins the championship for Miami! He wouldn't have stood there the 4th quarter and watched his team lose the lead to Dallas

Odom,blake,barnes,brown a pretty good bench, This is kobe vs wade dont bring lebron into this. The lakers were stacked and were mostly healthy so stop

LTBaByyy
06-24-2011, 04:24 PM
Hahahaha if Harden gets top 10 this is a joke lol

Jason Terry should be ahead of him

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 04:26 PM
I don't know why people are getting so worked up about nothing hahaha I personally love it does it really take 5 plus guys telling me there opinion for it to get to me??? Lol I got my opinion idc what any of you say go head call me a Kobe lover who gives a **** he's the reason why I started loving the lakers and why I now bleed purple and gold! But I will ****en assure you that I'm gonna defend any laker that's on the team as long as they deserve to be defended, you people have seen me defend Bynum before and I'll do the same for the rest as well! Get it through your head people idc what you say you aren't changing my way of thinking!
And wade will win this poll and I'm not mad because he did have a great season so ho cares if he wins this poll good for him, but now people and like kobes lakers were a super team while wades and lebrons was crap give me a break people, keep the excuses going though they ain't getting you anywhere!

Avenged
06-24-2011, 04:29 PM
Hahahaha if Harden gets top 10 this is a joke lol

Jason Terry should be ahead of him

Completely forgot about that little guy..

Still don't think he's ahead of Harden though. Harden is much younger, produces more efficiently than Terry in practically everything aside from assisting while playing 5 less minutes.

SportsFanatic10
06-24-2011, 04:33 PM
dwwyyyyyyyaaaaaaaannnnnee wwaaaaaddde (heat PA announcer voice)

Chacarron
06-24-2011, 04:37 PM
I can't wait for those people who will put Monta at 3. :sigh: :pity:

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 04:39 PM
Odom,blake,barnes,brown a pretty good bench, This is kobe vs wade dont bring lebron into this. The lakers were stacked and were mostly healthy so stop

So Lamar averaged 14 and 8
Shannon brown 8 and 2 on 39% shooting
Barnes averaged 6 point and 1 reb
Blake averaged 4 and 2
The rest of our bench barely played so I'm not counting them so how is this a great bench??
Now add to the fact that artest defense ad offense sucked and fishers defense killed us how does that equal a great bench or a great team we have 2 great players and 2 good player the rest are average or below average! Stacked team? I don't think so!

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 04:40 PM
Monte is up there Really why the hate he is a top scorer A good passer explosive to the rim and Can play ok D steals the basketball A good player comeon with the hate Ppl putting him down to 7 on sgs No way

Avenged
06-24-2011, 04:44 PM
Monte is up there Really why the hate he is a top scorer A good passer explosive to the rim and Can play ok D steals the basketball A good player comeon with the hate Ppl putting him down to 7 on sgs No way

I think his past seasons have left a bit of a bad reputation for him but he improved this season, good enough to make my top 5 at the SG position.

LTBaByyy
06-24-2011, 04:51 PM
Ellis to me is the 5th best SG

Wade
Kobe
Manu
JJ
Ellis


But Monta wants to be traded if you read the news

and once he leaves that system I think he will be the 7th or 8th SG at best IMO

Especially if it is a half court team

jimbobjarree
06-24-2011, 04:53 PM
Wader

LakersMaster24
06-24-2011, 04:54 PM
Wade became the best SG this year. But for the past 10 years Kobe was the best SG.

justinnum1
06-24-2011, 04:54 PM
Wade.

AntiG
06-24-2011, 04:58 PM
Wade became the best SG this year. But for the past 10 years Kobe was the best SG.

Wade was better than Kobe last year as well.

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 05:00 PM
Oh silly Boston fans lol ^^

Jewelz0376
06-24-2011, 05:01 PM
Wade became the best SG this year. But for the past 10 years Kobe was the best SG.

This

I have to give it Wade this year... You won't find many players that had as long of a run as kobe as the best at his position...

I still wouldn't put it past Kobe to regain the top spot back next season...

Jewelz0376
06-24-2011, 05:01 PM
Wade was better than Kobe last year as well.

is that a fact?

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 05:09 PM
This

I have to give it Wade this year... You won't find many players that had as long of a run as kobe as the best at his position...

I still wouldn't put it past Kobe to regain the top spot back next season...

This

Ebbs
06-24-2011, 05:14 PM
Wade
Kobe
JJ
Manu
Martin
Allen

than it gets interesting.

SwatTeam
06-24-2011, 05:14 PM
Wade . . . and its been that way for a while now. The reason everyone says Wade is better now is because he now has a team surrounding him that is a juggernaut and watched nationally every week - just like Kobe has for the past 14 years. Example, he had better stats last year than he did this year (except for the rebounding numbers) and now PSD has finally accepted him as the #1 SG? Kinda ironic. Only could a player like Wade regress statistically, but his team gets noticed in order for him to get the recognition he deserved. IMO Wade is one of the most underrated top players in the league. There are still analysts and sports talk heads who consider him a fringe top 5 player in the league. What an albatross.

amos1er
06-24-2011, 05:16 PM
Its debatable to say Wade...Kobe was playing injured this season after all and Wades numbers aren't really that much better than his considering Kobe's injuries.

Wade: 25.5 ppg 4.6 apg 6.4 rpg while playing 37.1 minutes per game

Kobe: 25.3 ppg 4.7 apg 5.1 rpg but on 33.9 minutes per game

Kobe actually was better considering per minute production and efficiency. I would give the nod to a healthy Kobe, but due to Kobe's injuries, I would not be so upset to see it go to Wade.

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 05:19 PM
Its debatable to say Wade...Kobe was playing injured this season after all and Wades numbers aren't really that much better than his considering Kobe's injuries.

Wade: 25.5 ppg 4.6 apg 6.4 rpg while playing 37.1 minutes per game

Kobe: 25.3 ppg 4.7 apg 5.1 rpg but on 33.9 minutes per game

Kobe actually was better considering per minute production and efficiency. I would give the nod to a healthy Kobe, but due to Kobe's injuries, I would not be so upset to see it go to Wade.



This is what I've been saying all along people people just love arguing with me

xxplayerxx23
06-24-2011, 05:20 PM
Its debatable to say Wade...Kobe was playing injured this season after all and Wades numbers aren't really that much better than his considering Kobe's injuries.

Wade: 25.5 ppg 4.6 apg 6.4 rpg while playing 37.1 minutes per game

Kobe: 25.3 ppg 4.7 apg 5.1 rpg but on 33.9 minutes per game

Kobe actually was better considering per minute production and efficiency. I would give the nod to a healthy Kobe, but due to Kobe's injuries, I would not be so upset to see it go to Wade.

I think we are speaking of the year coming up>

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-24-2011, 05:24 PM
Oh silly Boston fans lol ^^

Oh silly LA fans. I can do that too.

Avenged
06-24-2011, 05:25 PM
Its debatable to say Wade...Kobe was playing injured this season after all and Wades numbers aren't really that much better than his considering Kobe's injuries.

Wade: 25.5 ppg 4.6 apg 6.4 rpg while playing 37.1 minutes per game

Kobe: 25.3 ppg 4.7 apg 5.1 rpg but on 33.9 minutes per game

Kobe actually was better considering per minute production and efficiency. I would give the nod to a healthy Kobe, but due to Kobe's injuries, I would not be so upset to see it go to Wade.

Where are you getting that from? I hate to say it or even admit it but Wade is more efficient than Kobe across the board.

LayZbone
06-24-2011, 05:28 PM
Wade, for the 3rd year in a row ;)

GREATNESS ONE
06-24-2011, 05:28 PM
Wade and it's no question but Kobe is easily 2.

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 05:30 PM
Correction top 5 maybe top 3 after he wins 1 more championship and hits the 30k point mark!! Yes he will be better then your beloved Larry bird he probably already is viewed as > bird! And you have tour opinion but that doesn't change the fact the for the last 5 plus years NBA players have chosen Kobe as the best in the league! An IT also doesn't change the fact that many people outside of psd still think Kobe is the best! Wade will win this poll it's understandable but the way people talk about Kobe nowadays is crazy

all of this is strictly your opinion and you have no way of proving it. We don't agree on Kobe, and never will.

Why do you use so many exclamation points?

Redbull
06-24-2011, 05:33 PM
D-Wade.

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 05:33 PM
Lakers have a great bench?? Since when?

This is the only part I care to comment on, the rest of the post is you talking in circles again. The reason Kobe got his butt swept in round 2 was because his role players finally underperformed. In 5-6 occasions, his role players have been dominant, hence the rings.

You obviously fail to grasp that basketball is a team sport. It just flies over your head, as you constantly prove this in any Kobe related topic. Its like he brings out the complete irrationality in you

krisxsong
06-24-2011, 05:33 PM
Monta Ellis has no business being in a thread called the top SG in the NBA. He's so overrated it's not even funny.

LakeShowRaider
06-24-2011, 05:34 PM
Kobe will regain this spot easily next year.

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 05:34 PM
My list of SG's consists of:

1. Wade
2. Kobe
3. Manu
4. Kevin Martin
5. Monta Ellis
6. Eric Gordon
7. Joe Johnson
8. Ray Allen
9. James Harden
10. Jason Richardson

Not sure if Im missing anyone.. But Stephen Jackson doesn't make my top 10.

Move Monta down to #9, and bump everyone else up one spot, and I pretty much have the same list.

Eg714
06-24-2011, 05:39 PM
As a laker fan I'm voting for dwade this year. But I don't think Kobes done at all. He had a slight drop off but nothing to drastic. The knee surgery slowed him down for sure. I think he will be reclaiming the top spot next year with some good rest and hardwork

Avenged
06-24-2011, 05:39 PM
Move Monta down to #9, and bump everyone else up one spot, and I pretty much have the same list.

Monta down to 9? Seems like too much for me. He produces more efficiently than a lot of these SG's. Only real problem I see is his defense or lack of which I don't think merits him going down so low.

Sadds The Gr8
06-24-2011, 05:41 PM
lol it's so funny how Hawkeye hates Monta Ellis so much

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 05:45 PM
all of this is strictly your opinion and you have no way of proving it. We don't agree on Kobe, and never will.

Why do you use so many exclamation points?

Hey Im just going by what west, magic, pippen, barkley have said etc.

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 05:46 PM
Monta down to 9? Seems like too much for me. He produces more efficiently than a lot of these SG's. Only real problem I see is his defense or lack of which I don't think merits him going down so low.

terrible defender. He was a bit better this season, but he still gets inflated per game numbers due to pace/minutes, and his defense is horrid man

I can see making a case for higher than 9, but he isn't in my personal top 8

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 05:51 PM
This is the only part I care to comment on, the rest of the post is you talking in circles again. The reason Kobe got his butt swept in round 2 was because his role players finally underperformed. In 5-6 occasions, his role players have been dominant, hence the rings.

You obviously fail to grasp that basketball is a team sport. It just flies over your head, as you constantly prove this in any Kobe related topic. Its like he brings out the complete irrationality in you

Miami was good enough to win it all this year to bad wade and Lebron couldn't do it... They just don't have it hawkeye admit it... And hey you say it's a team thing right but aren't stats as well? If tour teammates don't make the basket you dont get the assist right if your teammates don't give you the necessary spacing you don't score right? If the refs are giving you the calls and you keep missing the shots well then obviously those don't count right, Kobe missed alot but alot of those were Fouls not being called which meant Kobe wasn't a efficient! Hey hawkeye atleast I don't use stats as an end all be all to an argument! Try seeing more laker games next season will you?

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 05:52 PM
Hey Im just going by what west, magic, pippen, barkley have said etc.

Because the ex greats only value winning rings, ignoring the other 10 things that make you an all time great. Notice how some of the greatest to ever player like MJ, Bird, McHale, and many more, couldn't evaluate talent and put together a contender if their lives depended on it...

amos1er
06-24-2011, 05:53 PM
Where are you getting that from? I hate to say it or even admit it but Wade is more efficient than Kobe across the board.

Kobe's stats are basically identical to Wades with Wade playing an extra 3.2 minutes per game. Per minute, Kobe is actually better because his stats would have been better than Wades had he played more....but its not all about stats and we all know that...Kobe was also a great closer this season as usual and played through some nagging injuries as well. Had Kobe been healthy and played the same minutes as Wade, I would expect his stat line to look something like this 28 ppg 5.5 apg and 6.3 rpg....the Lakers would have been the one seed and would have contended for the title. We will see what you haters say next year.

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 05:54 PM
terrible defender. He was a bit better this season, but he still gets inflated per game numbers due to pace/minutes, and his defense is horrid man

I can see making a case for higher than 9, but he isn't in my personal top 8

It seems like your describing Lebron here hahaha just messing with you hawkeye

tyfreaks brotha
06-24-2011, 05:56 PM
Where's Tyreake?

allSUAVE
06-24-2011, 05:57 PM
Move Monta down to #9, and bump everyone else up one spot, and I pretty much have the same list.

can the man have his own opinion lol

tyfreaks brotha
06-24-2011, 05:57 PM
Wade though

allSUAVE
06-24-2011, 05:57 PM
I Don't get PSD Sometimes man

Giraffes Rule
06-24-2011, 05:58 PM
Where's Tyreake?

More names get added to the poll as spots get eliminated. Evans won't be in the top 3 anyways.

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 05:58 PM
Because the ex greats only value winning rings, ignoring the other 10 things that make you an all time great. Notice how some of the greatest to ever player like MJ, Bird, McHale, and many more, couldn't evaluate talent and put together a contender if their lives depended on it...

So should I listen to you and rank the players by how you rank them or should I do it by how the all time greats rank them

pd1dish
06-24-2011, 06:01 PM
wheres Keith Bogans on this list?!?!?!?!

Giraffes Rule
06-24-2011, 06:01 PM
So should I listen to you and rank the players by how you rank them or should I do it by how the all time greats rank them

You should make up your own mind instead of going off what other people think...

jp611
06-24-2011, 06:06 PM
It's gotta be Wade now

SportsFanatic10
06-24-2011, 06:06 PM
Kobe's stats are basically identical to Wades with Wade playing an extra 3.2 minutes per game. Per minute, Kobe is actually better because his stats would have been better than Wades had he played more....but its not all about stats and we all know that...Kobe was also a great closer this season as usual and played through some nagging injuries as well. Had Kobe been healthy and played the same minutes as Wade, I would expect his stat line to look something like this 28 ppg 5.5 apg and 6.3 rpg....the Lakers would have been the one seed and would have contended for the title. We will see what you haters say next year.

lol at the per minute excuse.

wade made the same number of fgs (9/gm) on 2 less shots then kobe/gm (18 fga for wade vs 20 fga for kobe). he shot 5% better for the season.

LakersMaster24
06-24-2011, 06:07 PM
Wade was better than Kobe last year as well.

Ummmm....no.

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 06:07 PM
Kobe's stats are basically identical to Wades with Wade playing an extra 3.2 minutes per game. Per minute, Kobe is actually better because his stats would have been better than Wades had he played more....but its not all about stats and we all know that...Kobe was also a great closer this season as usual and played through some nagging injuries as well. Had Kobe been healthy and played the same minutes as Wade, I would expect his stat line to look something like this 28 ppg 5.5 apg and 6.3 rpg....the Lakers would have been the one seed and would have contended for the title. We will see what you haters say next year.

I like your analysis but Kobe was good this year not great in the clutch like in years past!
As far as next season I don't think he averages 28 but who knows maybe I'll say he averages something around the likes of 27.5 ppg 6 reb and 6-7 ast. a game on a very efficient 48-49% from the field!

LakersMaster24
06-24-2011, 06:10 PM
I like your analysis but Kobe was good this year not great in the clutch like in years past!
As far as next season I don't think he averages 28 but who knows maybe I'll say he averages something around the likes of 27.5 ppg 6 reb and 6-7 ast. a game on a very efficient 48-49% from the field!

You got carried away a little :p

BranWingss
06-24-2011, 06:14 PM
Dwayne Wade, just over Kobe Bryant.

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 06:14 PM
You should make up your own mind instead of going off what other people think...

If I go by mine then I would go by stats,championships,accomplishments, the way they played the game aka skillset and the impact they've had on the game of basketball around the world and quite frankly there just aren't 5 players better then Kobe in terms of how I rank my players, Kobe is in my top 5 already with 1 more championship he moves into the top 3 and once he finishes 2nd all time In scoring he will be where he rightfully deserves,right behind Michael Jordan at #2

Tuck&Rolle
06-24-2011, 06:18 PM
Are you guys kidding me? Kobe is better

Kashmir13579
06-24-2011, 06:19 PM
D Wade no questions asked.

Kashmir13579
06-24-2011, 06:21 PM
Ummmm....no.

LOL. way to back up your boy. I could make a better case for Landry Fields than you just did for Kobe Bryant. (literally)

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 06:21 PM
You got carried away a little :p

Well maybe I did but you gotta remember the lakers won't be using the triangle offense anymore which limited his numbers atleast assist wise but I don't think what I've said is too far fetched! Kobes averaged 6 ast before rebounds as well so I don't think my prediction is that far out of the ordinary!

Voodoo Alchemy
06-24-2011, 06:23 PM
D-wade for me

he can't close consistently like kobe. if kobe played for the heat, he would've averaged 30+ and no way he let leweak or cblah touch the ball.

Kashmir13579
06-24-2011, 06:24 PM
Lets be clear - we are far passed the point where Kobe can be ranked the no.1 SG simply "because he's Kobe". get with the times.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-24-2011, 06:31 PM
I like your analysis but Kobe was good this year not great in the clutch like in years past!
As far as next season I don't think he averages 28 but who knows maybe I'll say he averages something around the likes of 27.5 ppg 6 reb and 6-7 ast. a game on a very efficient 48-49% from the field!

Wouldn't that mean he's declining.

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 06:33 PM
Lets be clear - we are far passed the point where Kobe can be ranked the no.1 SG simply "because he's Kobe". get with the times.

Put it this way we know you aren't a big Kobe fan you probably don't like him and it's kinda obvious, wade had the better season but Kobe is still the better player it's pretty simple to, a player more clutch, whose just as good if not better defensively and has an offensive game that only Michael came close to having is the better player to me... Just saying

Tuck&Rolle
06-24-2011, 06:36 PM
Lets be clear - we are far passed the point where Kobe can be ranked the no.1 SG simply "because he's Kobe". get with the times.

Kobe had a "off year"

Kobe is still the best SG in the league, PSD really makes me wonder..

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 06:37 PM
So should I listen to you and rank the players by how you rank them or should I do it by how the all time greats rank them

When did I say you should listen to me? As I pointed out, many, if not most, of the all time greats have shown complete incompetence when it comes to evaluating talent. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you can teach it or recognize it. This has been proven throughout history in any profession.

This site is here for us to discuss. I state my opinion, give my evidence for doing so, others weigh in. That is how it works. Some here are much better at providing their case with words, numbers, and debating skills than others.

You can have any opinion you like. You can think Kobe is the best player to ever walk the planet. Doesn't mean I am going to agree with you

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 06:41 PM
Wouldn't that mean he's declining.

So not being as clutch one year compared to others doesn't make you great? Look we all know Kobe is declining that doesn't change the fact that people still think he's better then wade, (anywhere besides psd and it's true) he also wasn't healthy man so I expect Kobe to bounce back strong next year and have one of his better statistical seasons maybe not scoring wise but across the board!

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 06:42 PM
Try offering evidence, not excuses when you post. And pulling the 5 rings out is a credit to the Lakers organization far more than it is to Kobe

PatsSoxKnicks
06-24-2011, 06:44 PM
So not being as clutch one year compared to others doesn't make you great? Look we all know Kobe is declining that doesn't change the fact that people still think he's better then wade, (anywhere besides psd and it's true) he also wasn't healthy man so I expect Kobe to bounce back strong next year and have one of his better statistical seasons maybe not scoring wise but across the board!

You should change your name to PSD's Kobe Bryant. Clearly, you're him. :p

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 06:45 PM
When did I say you should listen to me? As I pointed out, many, if not most, of the all time greats have shown complete incompetence when it comes to evaluating talent. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you can teach it or recognize it. This has been proven throughout history in any profession.

This site is here for us to discuss. I state my opinion, give my evidence for doing so, others weigh in. That is how it works. Some here are much better at providing their case with words, numbers, and debating skills than others.

You can have any opinion you like. You can think Kobe is the best player to ever walk the planet. Doesn't mean I am going to agree with you

Fair enough, but no I don't think Kobe is the best ever and probably never will think that i do think he can finish top 2 or 3 when it's all said and done with 1 more championship and more scoring

Voodoo Alchemy
06-24-2011, 06:45 PM
kobe's the best 2 guard in the league until he retires. but until that day happens, no one's taking that spot away from him.

amos1er
06-24-2011, 06:46 PM
lol at the per minute excuse.

wade made the same number of fgs (9/gm) on 2 less shots then kobe/gm (18 fga for wade vs 20 fga for kobe). he shot 5% better for the season.

You're not taking into account Kobe's injuries. A healthy Kobe is >> Wade. If you want to put Wade ahead of Kobe for this year that's fine...just make sure you add an asterisks that says: "because of an injured Kobe".

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 06:46 PM
So not being as clutch one year compared to others doesn't make you great? Look we all know Kobe is declining that doesn't change the fact that people still think he's better then wade, (anywhere besides psd and it's true) he also wasn't healthy man so I expect Kobe to bounce back strong next year and have one of his better statistical seasons maybe not scoring wise but across the board!

Haven't we shown that the Lakers go from around 107pts per 100 possessions down to 85pts per 100 possessions in tight games, and that Kobe hits 31%, way below a bunch of other stars, in the clutch?

People remember what they choose to remember. Fact is, Kobe has hit a lot of game winners, but he has missed a ton more.

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 06:47 PM
Fair enough, but no I don't think Kobe is the best ever and probably never will think that i do think he can finish top 2 or 3 when it's all said and done with 1 more championship and more scoring

I know you do. And trust me, I have a ton of respect for Kobe, and I think I get unfairly labeled as a Kobe hater here. I continually put him in my top 8 players of all time, and he will be the easiest vote for #2. He has been the top SG in the NBA for years, but he is just getting older finally. You can not stop father time man.

ManRam
06-24-2011, 06:48 PM
kobe's the best 2 guard in the league until he retires. but until that day happens, no one's taking that spot away from him.

:laugh:

Was Jordan the best at his position up until he retired? No. Shaq the best C until he retires? Duncan the best PF until he retires? No and no...and you wouldn't say otherwise...so why bother with Kobe?

Kobe will be the best until he's not the best, and he's now not the best.

Your logic is quite frankly silly.

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 06:49 PM
You should change your name to PSD's Kobe Bryant. Clearly, you're him. :p

I think I will hahaha

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 06:50 PM
You're not taking into account Kobe's injuries. A healthy Kobe is >> Wade. If you want to put Wade ahead of Kobe for this year that's fine...just make sure you add an asterisks that says: "because of an injured Kobe".

But that just doesn't matter. As I said earlier, a player with 1310 games on his knees, with minimal rest over the summers for years due to his team always going deep into the playoffs, shouldn't we just acknowledge that he has suffered from a lot of wear and tear? Kobe is an ironman, and its part of what makes him great. But sports abuse your body over time.

Fact is, Wade was better than Kobe this year. No matter the reason. And that is why we should be voting Wade #1 here. Its not a vote that entails, "I am voting this way because IF". No. You vote on results.

gaughan333
06-24-2011, 06:50 PM
Oh silly Boston fans lol ^^

I think reading what you have to say actually makes me a stupider human...

amos1er
06-24-2011, 06:53 PM
Haven't we shown that the Lakers go from around 107pts per 100 possessions down to 85pts per 100 possessions in tight games, and that Kobe hits 31%, way below a bunch of other stars, in the clutch?

People remember what they choose to remember. Fact is, Kobe has hit a lot of game winners, but he has missed a ton more.


I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.
Michael Jordan

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-24-2011, 06:55 PM
So not being as clutch one year compared to others doesn't make you great? Look we all know Kobe is declining that doesn't change the fact that people still think he's better then wade, (anywhere besides psd and it's true) he also wasn't healthy man so I expect Kobe to bounce back strong next year and have one of his better statistical seasons maybe not scoring wise but across the board!

Kobe is aging, he will be playing the rest of his career with some bumps and bruises. Kobe is declining, I'm seeing the same thing happen to my big three in Boston. Kobe won't play like the Kobe of 09-10 or earlier anymore.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-24-2011, 06:56 PM
i think reading what you have to say actually makes me a stupider human...

x2.

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 06:56 PM
Michael Jordan

so?

amos1er
06-24-2011, 06:57 PM
But that just doesn't matter. As I said earlier, a player with 1310 games on his knees, with minimal rest over the summers for years due to his team always going deep into the playoffs, shouldn't we just acknowledge that he has suffered from a lot of wear and tear? Kobe is an ironman, and its part of what makes him great. But sports abuse your body over time.

Fact is, Wade was better than Kobe this year. No matter the reason. And that is why we should be voting Wade #1 here. Its not a vote that entails, "I am voting this way because IF". No. You vote on results.

I admitted that Wade had the better season due to wear and tear an injury on Kobe. Wade was nothing compared to Kobe in his prime and wont even make it into the top ten of all time greats. If I were Wade or Lebron, I would be scared, because Kobe is pissed and motivated and I would hate to see what he is going to do next season if I were a Kobe hater.

amos1er
06-24-2011, 06:59 PM
so?

All the great ones fail, its just part of the game...what really matters is that you succeed when it counts and we all know that Kobe has done so. He should not be questioned...especially against the likes of Wade or Le-Choke James.

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 07:00 PM
I admitted that Wade had the better season due to wear and tear an injury on Kobe. Wade was nothing compared to Kobe in his prime and wont even make it into the top ten of all time greats. If I were Wade or Lebron, I would be scared, because Kobe is pissed and motivated and I would hate to see what he is going to do next season if I were a Kobe hater.

I don't think anyone is scared of anyone at the elite level. Besides, Kobe can go nuts all he wants. If his role players don't step up, they are done in the playoffs the same they were this year.

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 07:02 PM
All the great ones fail, its just part of the game...what really matters is that you succeed when it counts and we all know that Kobe has done so. He should not be questioned...especially against the likes of Wade or Le-Choke James.

ahh. Ok. Gotcha. Team success thing again. Well, Kobe has missed about 4 times as many shots as Jordan claimed to miss in those clutch situations, so I still don't know what the point of that post was.

Voodoo Alchemy
06-24-2011, 07:03 PM
You're not taking into account Kobe's injuries. A healthy Kobe is >> Wade. If you want to put Wade ahead of Kobe for this year that's fine...just make sure you add an asterisks that says: "because of an injured Kobe".

agree plus you gotta look at kobe's overall career. he was beasting even when the lakers had a crappy team.

no way kobe would've let the mavs come from 15 down and steal game 2.

Voodoo Alchemy
06-24-2011, 07:05 PM
ahh. Ok. Gotcha. Team success thing again. Well, Kobe has missed about 4 times as many shots as Jordan claimed to miss in those clutch situations, so I still don't know what the point of that post was.

ok it's safe to say jordan #1, kobe #2 and who cares about the other sg's.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-24-2011, 07:06 PM
agree plus you gotta look at kobe's overall career. he was beasting even when the lakers had a crappy team.

no way kobe would've let the mavs come from 15 down and steal game 2.

But he let the Celtics come back when up by 24.

Cano4prez
06-24-2011, 07:09 PM
agree plus you gotta look at kobe's overall career. he was beasting even when the lakers had a crappy team.

no way kobe would've let the mavs come from 15 down and steal game 2.

Did you miss game 1 of the Lakers-Mavs series? Mavs came back after being down 16 and Kobe missed the GW Shot

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 07:10 PM
Guys let's just leave hawkeye alone we can say anything because it's a team thing, but it's ok to mention stats so just let it go, I mean the heat had the best team last year and they still didn't win that's should tell you alot about how great Lebron and wade really are!

Tuck&Rolle
06-24-2011, 07:11 PM
This officially confirms that PSD is ********

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 07:12 PM
Did you miss game 1 of the Lakers-Mavs series? Mavs came back after being down 16 and Kobe missed the GW Shot

Only problem is Dallas was starting to make their comeback at the end of the third quarter not in the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter lol

Rosh
06-24-2011, 07:15 PM
Wade; Kobe has fallen off.

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 07:16 PM
But he let the Celtics come back when up by 24.

Yeah he did but Boston made their run starting the 3rd quarter not the last 5 minutes of a game no way the #1 and #2 players in the NBA should losing a 15 point lead in the last 5 minutes of a game right?

MFFL==FML
06-24-2011, 07:17 PM
Harden better make this list.

In no order... Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Joe Johnson, Monte Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Manu Ginoboli, Ray Allen, Eric Gordon, Kevin Martin, Jason Richardson, and YES... Jason Terry (better off the bench player and SG).

Harden has so much to do to even be top 15 SG in the league... :facepalm:

Baller1
06-24-2011, 07:33 PM
This officially confirms that PSD is ********

Aren't you the same one who was still attempting to claim that Melo is better than Durant?

Coincidence.

Baller1
06-24-2011, 07:34 PM
In no order... Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Joe Johnson, Monte Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Manu Ginoboli, Ray Allen, Eric Gordon, Kevin Martin, Jason Richardson, and YES... Jason Terry (better off the bench player and SG).

Harden has so much to do to even be top 15 SG in the league... :facepalm:

Jason Richardson better than Harden? :laugh:

D1JM
06-24-2011, 07:34 PM
Wade hands down.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-24-2011, 07:36 PM
Only problem is Dallas was starting to make their comeback at the end of the third quarter not in the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter lol

But as mentioned before they blew a 16 point and 24 point lead. Doesn't matter how much time was left THEY STILL BLEW THE LEAD!!

amos1er
06-24-2011, 07:44 PM
ahh. Ok. Gotcha. Team success thing again. Well, Kobe has missed about 4 times as many shots as Jordan claimed to miss in those clutch situations, so I still don't know what the point of that post was.

Any proof that Kobe supposedly missed 4 times as many shots as Jordan in clutch situations? Or am I supposed to just take your word for it. Anyways, Kobe has made more clutch shots than Jordan and here is the proof: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091205132829AA4UPbF BTW, this data is old and Kobe is still ahead.

MFFL==FML
06-24-2011, 07:46 PM
Jason Richardson better than Harden? :laugh:

Yes... right now Jason Richardson is quite EASILY better than Harden... not sure what is funny. Do you think it's funny that Jordan is better than LeBron too out of curiosity?

Even still, I hope you see Harden is DEFINITELY not in the top 10 with the other players I named. Who is he better than in that list (other than Richardson apparently)?

RaidersLakers24
06-24-2011, 07:48 PM
I know you do. And trust me, I have a ton of respect for Kobe, and I think I get unfairly labeled as a Kobe hater here. I continually put him in my top 8 players of all time, and he will be the easiest vote for #2. He has been the top SG in the NBA for years, but he is just getting older finally. You can not stop father time man.

Yeah and I don't consider you a Kobe hater just not a supporter when it comes to these topics lol

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 07:48 PM
Any proof that Kobe supposedly missed 4 times as many shots as Jordan in clutch situations? Or am I supposed to just take your word for it. Anyways, Kobe has made more clutch shots than Jordan and here is the proof: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091205132829AA4UPbF BTW, this data is old and Kobe is still ahead.

Did you really skip over the 10 or so threads earlier this year from the truehoop article by Abbot with the numbers?

amos1er
06-24-2011, 07:56 PM
Did you really skip over the 10 or so threads earlier this year from the truehoop article by Abbot with the numbers?

If its so easy to skip over then why don't you post it?

Jewelz0376
06-24-2011, 07:57 PM
ahh. Ok. Gotcha. Team success thing again. Well, Kobe has missed about 4 times as many shots as Jordan claimed to miss in those clutch situations, so I still don't know what the point of that post was.

Do you actually have the stat on Jordans %'s on game winners?? I've never seen them..

Because in Abbots article it only counts from the 96-97 season??

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 07:58 PM
If its so easy to skip over then why don't you post it?

http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 08:00 PM
Do you actually have the stat on Jordans %'s on game winners?? I've never seen them..

Because in Abbots article it only counts from the 96-97 season??

I have honestly never come across an article about Jordan's clutch stats per say. JB may have one.

Point is, the Kobe being clutch debate was set straight by the research Abbott put forth.

Now, we have had these threads before, and it becomes an excusesfest from Laker fans.

I posted it.

Hawkeye15
06-24-2011, 08:02 PM
JB, I see you in here. If you have any resources about Jordan's clutch play, post it for us (me) to read.

23dragonzord
06-24-2011, 08:04 PM
time to pass the torch kobe

Delfiffer
06-24-2011, 08:07 PM
Wade has been better than Kobe since 08-09. Marcus Thornton should also be on the list, he's better than Stephen Jackson

amos1er
06-24-2011, 08:16 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

Didn't you say that Kobe missed four times as many as Jordan? I don't see that anywhere in the article.

Cano4prez
06-24-2011, 08:22 PM
Didn't you say that Kobe missed four times as many as Jordan? I don't see that anywhere in the article.

36-115 :laugh2:

theheatles
06-24-2011, 08:25 PM
^in jordans statement he said he missed 26 gw shots and in that article hawkeye provided, it shows kobe missing 79 gw shots, not exactl 4x, but it's pretty close