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View Full Version : True or False: Blake Griffin and Kevin Love will be the best PF's in the league.



Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 07:52 PM
Within 3 seasons. They will hold that perch for a good 5-10 seasons like KG/Duncan did. My answer is true. I think both are going to keep improving and rip up the competition for years to come.

m26555
06-22-2011, 07:54 PM
I'd say so. I think Griffin is going to be the best player in the league period very soon.

That said, watch out for Derrick Williams. I really think the kid is going to be an absolute stud.

D Roses Bulls
06-22-2011, 07:56 PM
I don't think love will, but griffin has a chance. none of those guys will be like duncan though. very few players have the fundamentals and the basketball IQ of Duncan.

ATSW02D16
06-22-2011, 07:57 PM
I'm not sold on Love yet. Griffin will be up there definitely however.

koreancabbage
06-22-2011, 08:00 PM
Griffin yes, Love would be a solid PF not as a first option.

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 08:05 PM
I don't think love will, but griffin has a chance. none of those guys will be like duncan though. very few players have the fundamentals and the basketball IQ of Duncan.

Duncan and Pop have already mentioned Blake's IQ reminding them of young Timmy. He's an extremely intelligent player. They are so different though and I agree he won't be like Duncan. Duncan was arguably STRONGER on defense than offense where as Griffin is the better offensive player potential wise but much worse defensive player. Griffin's passing, rebounding and scoring will definitely surpass Duncan's at his peak. I do wish Blake defended like Mr Duncan though.

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 08:07 PM
I'd say so. I think Griffin is going to be the best player in the league period very soon.

That said, watch out for Derrick Williams. I really think the kid is going to be an absolute stud.

My only regret for our pick becoming number 1 in this draft is Derrick Williams. Then again we have Griffin at PF. I agree this guy will be a monster and hands down best player, maybe only star of this draft. I'm annoyed that so many people are hyped on Kyrie. I think Eric Bledsoe will be a better PG than Kyrie in the future. I also agree if he stays healthy Blake will be the best player soon. He's been working out.. and leading practices since the beginning of May or even very late April. The guy took 2 freaking weeks off before he was working on his game again.

MacFitz92
06-22-2011, 08:07 PM
Blake Griffin could very well be considered the best PF in the league at some point in his career, whereas I don't see that happening with Love.

NBA_Starter
06-22-2011, 08:10 PM
True

SirDJ
06-22-2011, 08:12 PM
true. i like loves game

RaidersLakers24
06-22-2011, 08:32 PM
Blake griffin yes(maybe best in the league) love no maybe top 5 pf though

Giraffes Rule
06-22-2011, 08:40 PM
Blake griffin yes(maybe best in the league) love no maybe top 5 pf though

Kevin Love is already on the fringe of top 5, if not there already.

iliketurtles24
06-22-2011, 08:41 PM
true, maybe im missing something but other than dunking and griffins flair, what makes you ppl think he will be best player in league.
i am not bashing, from what i have seen (sportscenter) his only ability is dunking, so what else can this kid do that will make him elite???
and on love- he may not be good athletically, but he has fundamentals and is a good passer and shot 40% from three how will he not be one of the top 2 pf in the league

and ppl knock on love for not being a number one option, but i can never see griffin leading his team to the finals or winning it, but that might be because i haven't watched him play, please fill me in

Swashcuff
06-22-2011, 08:47 PM
I say yes on them both, HOWEVER on one condition. They both NEED to improve their game on the defensive end. While Blake shocked just about everyone with his rookie performance and Kevin Love improved more than anyone every though he would it can't be forgotten how much Lamarcus Aldridge stepped his game up. If he continues to improve on both ends of the floor as he did last season he may be seen as having the slight edge on them both due to the fact that while not extraordinary he's more that capable on D.

Jewelz0376
06-22-2011, 08:50 PM
true, maybe im missing something but other than dunking and griffins flair, what makes you ppl think he will be best player in league.
i am not bashing, from what i have seen (sportscenter) his only ability is dunking, so what else can this kid do that will make him elite???
and on love- he may not be good athletically, but he has fundamentals and is a good passer and shot 40% from three how will he not be one of the top 2 pf in the league

and ppl knock on love for not being a number one option, but i can never see griffin leading his team to the finals or winning it, but that might be because i haven't watched him play, please fill me in

He can do a lil more than dunk...He has a decent post game....its pretty basic, but he was good enough in the post last season where teams would send double teams....

His jumper got a little better as the season went on as well...In no way am I saying he was D.West or anything...it was still wasn't as consistent as you'd like, but it def got better as the season went on...

What has me convinced that he can def be the best player in the league is the way he attacks the glass...and with his athletic ability he has the potential to be one of the best defensive pfs in the league....

PlezPlayDKnicks
06-22-2011, 08:53 PM
Within 3-5 is a good possibility

AnalyzeNShoot
06-22-2011, 08:54 PM
False,

Ibaka has the defensive potential Love and Blake would never have. Ibaka is kinda of raw offensively, and he has been given limited minutes. But is a Beast.

Its not all about stat padding or dunking over a car, Neither love or Blake attempt to block shoot for guys their size. I mean other ppl can have their opinion but that mine

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 08:57 PM
true, maybe im missing something but other than dunking and griffins flair, what makes you ppl think he will be best player in league.
i am not bashing, from what i have seen (sportscenter) his only ability is dunking, so what else can this kid do that will make him elite???
and on love- he may not be good athletically, but he has fundamentals and is a good passer and shot 40% from three how will he not be one of the top 2 pf in the league

and ppl knock on love for not being a number one option, but i can never see griffin leading his team to the finals or winning it, but that might be because i haven't watched him play, please fill me in

What nobody wants to talk about is his passing, ballhandling and basketball IQ. Not to mention his energy/motor. He's the first superstar caliber player I've seen with the motor of a 12th man trying to fight for a roster spot. Multiple broadcasters around the league have said they have never seen a player hustle that much and expend that much energy consistently, over all 82 games. The guy just almost never lets up on his intensity.

He's also the best passing bigman in the league bar none. Averaged just about 4 assists a game as a ROOKIE POWER FORWARD and that's with our team having terrible shooters. So to answer your question... what you see on ESPN top plays isn't even close to the full story of Blake.

Like Swash said.. he NEEDS to improve his defense by a good margin to be in the discussion as the best. He will never be an elite paint enforcer, shotblocker presence.. but he can be an excellent positional defender like Karl Malone was.

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 08:58 PM
False,

Ibaka has the defensive potential Love and Blake would never have. Ibaka is kinda of raw offensively, and he has been given limited minutes. But is a Beast.

Its not all about stat padding or dunking over a car, Neither love or Blake attempt to block shoot for guys their size. I mean other ppl can have their opinion but that mine

Wow get real. Ibaka best PF in the game? Sorry but even if he averages 4 blocks a game... his scoring, rebounding and passing will never put him at the top. Not saying he doesn't have all star potential, isn't a very good player or anything but top PF in game? LOL.

Swashcuff
06-22-2011, 09:00 PM
true, maybe im missing something but other than dunking and griffins flair, what makes you ppl think he will be best player in league.
i am not bashing, from what i have seen (sportscenter) his only ability is dunking, so what else can this kid do that will make him elite???
and on love- he may not be good athletically, but he has fundamentals and is a good passer and shot 40% from three how will he not be one of the top 2 pf in the league

and ppl knock on love for not being a number one option, but i can never see griffin leading his team to the finals or winning it, but that might be because i haven't watched him play, please fill me in

That's the thing you proved it right there for us all.

A guy with an extremely limited offensive skill set (as you said more or less relying on his athletic ability than pure skill) who was the only rookie PF in NBA History to ever average 22+ ppg, 12+ rpg and 3+ apg. That is amazing. Imagine when Blake Griffin becomes a more complete basketball player. Imagine when he starts putting the effort in on the defensive end, imagine when he develops a back to the basket game, imagine when he develops a 10-18 foot jumper.

To those who say well he may never develop all that I say this, look at Blake Griffin play night in night out, he doesn't grab 12 rpg by chance, he puts the work it, he is one of the hardest working rebounders in the entire NBA. Based on his commitment on the glass and his overall work ethic I see no reason why he won't be able to develop himself on D, work hard on improving his offensive repertoire.

All this to go with the fact that he's a decent passer, good ball handler for his size and a high BBIQ I see potential in him to not only become the best player at his position but challenge LeBron, KD, Rose, Dwight etc as the best player in the game.

I think Blake developing into a fundamentally sound basketball player is not really a question of IF but rather a question of when.

Swashcuff
06-22-2011, 09:02 PM
What nobody wants to talk about is his passing, ballhandling and basketball IQ. Not to mention his energy/motor. He's the first superstar caliber player I've seen with the motor of a 12th man trying to fight for a roster spot. Multiple broadcasters around the league have said they have never seen a player hustle that much and expend that much energy consistently, over all 82 games. The guy just almost never lets up on his intensity.

He's also the best passing bigman in the league bar none. Averaged just about 4 assists a game as a ROOKIE POWER FORWARD and that's with our team having terrible shooters. So to answer your question... what you see on ESPN top plays isn't even close to the full story of Blake.

Like Swash said.. he NEEDS to improve his defense by a good margin to be in the discussion as the best. He will never be an elite paint enforcer, shotblocker presence.. but he can be an excellent positional defender like Karl Malone was.

Read my post. I always talk about it. Lol.

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 09:03 PM
That's the thing you proved it right there for us all.

A guy with an extremely limited offensive skill set (as you said more or less relying on his athletic ability than pure skill) who was the only rookie PF in NBA History to ever average 22+ ppg, 12+ rpg and 3+ apg. That is amazing. Imagine when Blake Griffin becomes a more complete basketball player. Imagine when he starts putting the effort in on the defensive end, imagine when he develops a back to the basket game, imagine when he develops a 10-18 foot jumper.

To those who say well he may never develop all that I say this, look at Blake Griffin play night in night out, he doesn't grab 12 rpg by chance, he puts the work it, he is one of the hardest working rebounders in the entire NBA. Based on his commitment on the glass and his overall work ethic I see no reason why he won't be able to develop himself on D, work hard on improving his offensive repertoire.

All this to go with the fact that he's a decent passer, good ball handler for his size and a high BBIQ I see potential in him to not only become the best player at his position but challenge LeBron, KD, Rose, Dwight etc as the best player in the game.

I think Blake developing into a fundamentally sound basketball player is not really a question of IF but rather a question of when.

Excellent post Swash. Knowledgeable and unbiased.

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 09:04 PM
Read my post. I always talk about it. Lol.

Haha I just saw afterwards. I notice we highlighted same things but I had a little more bias in my writings obviously (Blake is my guy!).

tredigs
06-22-2011, 09:05 PM
With the lapses that each have defensively, bear in mind that Dirk is considered the best PF in the league... and far from a great defender. Amare is another example.

I do believe that Blake could be a top 2-3 PF as soon as next season, and that Love will not be far behind in the rankings (though a decent bit behind in skill).

For the people who consider Griffin nothing more than a human highlight reel ("because all they watch is sportscenter"), just watch some Clippers games. Very smart player; great passer out of the double, already has a small arsenal of moves out of the post, fantastic ball handler, decent/improving range, elite rebounder, and already the most explosive player in the game. Given his work ethic, I find it hard to believe a player with his raw talent/physical ability won't be running things at that position very soon; I can see a season of 25/13/5 w/ improved defense in Blake's near future.

AnalyzeNShoot
06-22-2011, 09:06 PM
Wow get real. Ibaka best PF in the game? Sorry but even if he averages 4 blocks a game... his scoring, rebounding and passing will never put him at the top. Not saying he doesn't have all star potential, isn't a very good player or anything but top PF in game? LOL.

Offensive game is something that can be taught, he plays behind durant who also plays pf at time at 6-10, and westbrook. So if given the chance he can score in a bunches. I never said Ibaka would be the best, i was simply comparing something he has that love and griffin lack, defensive intensity. That sir cannot be taught.

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 09:08 PM
With the lapses that each have defensively, bear in mind that Dirk is considered the best PF in the league... and far from a great defender. Amare is another example.

I do believe that Blake could be a top 2-3 PF as soon as next season, and that Love will not be far behind in the rankings (though a decent bit behind in skill).

For the people who consider Griffin nothing more than a human highlight reel ("because all they watch is sportscenter"), just watch some Clippers games. Very smart player; great passer out of the double, already has a small arsenal of moves out of the post, fantastic ball handler, decent/improving range, elite rebounder, and already the most explosive player in the game. Given his work ethic, I find it hard to believe a player with his raw talent/physical ability won't be running things at that position very soon; I can see a season of 25/13/5 w/ improved defense in Blake's near future.

Those numbers are right around my absolute prime numbers for Blake. I always say in his absolute peak if he stays healthy... he's going to put up around..


26-28 ppg
13 rpg
5 apg
1.5 spg
1 bpg

on efficient numbers. If he hits that peak.. and sustains it a couple seasons he's going to be right there with Duncan, Malone, Garnett and Barkley as the best PF ever.

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 09:10 PM
Offensive game is something that can be taught, he plays behind durant who also plays pf at time at 6-10, and westbrook. So if given the chance he can score in a bunches. I never said Ibaka would be the best, i was simply comparing something he has that love and griffin lack, defensive intensity. That sir cannot be taught.

Okay so let me get this straight. You're saying defense can't be taught by offense can? :facepalm:. Blake Griffin and Love have just as much of a chance to be at least solid-good defenders as Ibaka does becoming a good scorer. Ibaka's a defensive specialist and I don't ever see him looking for his own shots and taking over games with scoring or playmaking.

I like Love's game a lot and watched him some.. but not enough to speak on his defensive potential. I will say Blake showed flashes in the 2nd half of the season that he can take over defensively. Whether it was getting 3 stops in a row on Zach Randolph who was on fire... or having a string of about 6 games where he averaged almost 2 blocks a game.. we know Blake has a chance at least to be a good defender. He's actually a very solid man defender.. but a TERRIBLE interior defender (which is what counts the most). Towards end of season when he got more favorable reffing he started going for way more blocks.

AnalyzeNShoot
06-22-2011, 09:14 PM
Okay so let me get this straight. You're saying defense can't be taught by offense can? :facepalm:. Blake Griffin and Love have just as much of a chance to be at least solid-good defenders as Ibaka does becoming a good scorer. Ibaka's a defensive specialist and I don't ever see him looking for his own shots and taking over games with scoring or playmaking.

Not gona bash my brains on u anymore, AGAIN never said IBAKA would be top 5 or top 2. As for you argument about Offensive oriented OF catching onto defensive. Ever Heard of Amare ?? can score can dunk, but no defensive.

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 09:17 PM
Not gona bash my brains on u anymore, AGAIN never said IBAKA would be top 5 or top 2. As for you argument about Offensive oriented OF catching onto defensive. Ever Heard of Amare ?? can score can dunk, but no defensive.

Amare became a 2 bpg player. Not saying he's a good defender but he absolutely improved some defensively. If you don't feel Ibaka can be a top 5 PF why the hell were you tooting your horn about Ibaka and how Blake and Love lack defensively? Doesn't seem on topic to me.

tredigs
06-22-2011, 09:18 PM
Okay so let me get this straight. You're saying defense can't be taught by offense can? :facepalm:. Blake Griffin and Love have just as much of a chance to be at least solid-good defenders as Ibaka does becoming a good scorer. Ibaka's a defensive specialist and I don't ever see him looking for his own shots and taking over games with scoring or playmaking.

Ibaka won't take over, but he can absolutely be a strong offensive player, he's already picked up extended range and tenacity on the offensive glass in just one season. But no, he will never be near Blake status. Just too far behind.

And it bears mentioning that Ibaka is actually a poor man defender against any good/elite PF. He's just an elite weakside defender/shotblocker and will hit the glass with a vengeance.

Biggest hole in Griffin's game is definitely his laziness on the defensive end. And the other guy was right, that CANNOT be taught. He has to accept it as his duty, and if he doesn't, he'll be a better version of Amare - nothing more (could be worse eh?).

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 09:26 PM
Ibaka won't take over, but he can absolutely be a strong offensive player, he's already picked up extended range and tenacity on the offensive glass in just one season. But no, he will never be near Blake status. Just too far behind.

And it bears mentioning that Ibaka is actually a poor man defender against any good/elite PF. He's just an elite weakside defender/shotblocker and will hit the glass with a vengeance.

Biggest hole in Griffin's game is definitely his laziness on the defensive end. And the other guy was right, that CANNOT be taught. He has to accept it as his duty, and if he doesn't, he'll be a better version of Amare - nothing more (could be worse eh?).

For Blake his defensive woes have logical reasons, mainly being in foul trouble. It seems like any time Blake played physical defense he could pick up 2-3 fouls in a single possession. Maybe it cannot be taught but what if Blake already knows it? By the same token Blake showed at times he can be a very active defender, get stops and even rack up blocks and steals.

I would understand the logic if we saw no flashes.. but Blake did show flashes of being a very capable defender.

By no means though am I trying to defend Blake defensively. Foul trouble or not nobody can deny he took a ton of defensive possessions off and like you said looked flat out lazy defensively sometimes. I'm just saying... I give him a little slack because he was a rookie, in foul trouble a lot of times... and was never a great defender to begin with. I'm curious to see how he improves defensively. He said right now he's working on his jumper and defense the most, so let's see.

Hiphopopotamus
06-22-2011, 09:30 PM
Possible. Will be interested to see some of the young guys and how they develop. In 3-5 years Favors could be a beast. L.Aldridge may have something to say about it also.

tredigs
06-22-2011, 09:32 PM
For Blake his defensive woes have logical reasons, mainly being in foul trouble. It seems like any time Blake played physical defense he could pick up 2-3 fouls in a single possession. Maybe it cannot be taught but what if Blake already knows it? By the same token Blake showed at times he can be a very active defender, get stops and even rack up blocks and steals.

I would understand the logic if we saw no flashes.. but Blake did show flashes of being a very capable defender.

While flashes are great, what we saw was about 30-35 minutes a night of very unmotivated/disengaged defense. Could've been that he was using Deandre as a crutch, but regardless the bottom line is that he was definitely disengaged. I never saw foul trouble as a big issue for him, can't say I agree with you there.

Hiphopopotamus
06-22-2011, 09:33 PM
Does anyone have a sense of how good Cousins could be? I only watched sacto like one this year and he didn't play.

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 09:37 PM
While flashes are great, what we saw was about 30-35 minutes a night of very unmotivated/disengaged defense. Could've been that he was using Deandre as a crutch, but regardless the bottom line is that he was definitely disengaged. I never saw foul trouble as a big issue for him, can't say I agree with you there.

You didn't see foul trouble as a huge issue because he took defensive possessions off :). When he went all out defensively... he always got raped by refs on calls. I mean look at the Suns game where he fouled out on the Gortat poster dunk. He had 3 fouls called on him (2 defensive ones) in a span of literally like 25-30 seconds. The worst part is that Hakim Warrick intentionally hit him in the face right in front of a ref in that 30 second span and wasn't called for a foul.

In fact another one was the game before that vs the Suns. He had 3 quick defensive fouls called on him that also fouled him out of the game with about 5 minutes left in the fourth quarter when the Clippers started building momentum. The most ironic thing is both games were home games. The Clippers get 0 respect in their own building. I can't say how many times Blake got merked by refs at Staples Center. Not saying in general he didn't get many calls.. just saying it was inconsistent and that he gets called for defensive fouls very easily.

Teams are allowed to mug him, hit him in the face and rough him up... but if he plays physical defense it's a foul.

I think people flat out call him a terrible defender... I say he's a slightly worse than average defender. Which for a rookie who's never been a good defender and puts so much energy into the glass and scoring.. it's not too surprising. I just want him to improve it every year like Lebron and other great recent players have had to.

ldawg
06-22-2011, 09:54 PM
Love is over rated and blake look like a younger Amare on steroids.

don'tfireNedCo
06-22-2011, 09:59 PM
False,

Ibaka has the defensive potential Love and Blake would never have. Ibaka is kinda of raw offensively, and he has been given limited minutes. But is a Beast.

Its not all about stat padding or dunking over a car, Neither love or Blake attempt to block shoot for guys their size. I mean other ppl can have their opinion but that mine


Offensive game is something that can be taught, he plays behind durant who also plays pf at time at 6-10, and westbrook. So if given the chance he can score in a bunches. I never said Ibaka would be the best, i was simply comparing something he has that love and griffin lack, defensive intensity. That sir cannot be taught.


Not gona bash my brains on u anymore, AGAIN never said IBAKA would be top 5 or top 2. As for you argument about Offensive oriented OF catching onto defensive. Ever Heard of Amare ?? can score can dunk, but no defensive.

just what kind of BS you trying to pull?

you started your original post saying "FALSE!" to the op's title, simply dismissing any remote possibilities of either griffin or love becoming very best. then you immediately followed that with praises for ibaka, that neither of griffin or love "will NEVER HAVE" the type of defensive abilities that ibaka has. then you followed that up with an assumption that what ibaka lacks is coachable, and what love and griffin lack are not.

after all that you go on a rant about how you NEVER meant to put ibaka on a pedestal? :facepalm:

come on be clear and consistent or keep your thoughts to yourself.

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 10:01 PM
just what kind of BS you trying to pull?

you started your original post saying "FALSE!" to the op's title, simply dismissing any remote possibilities of either griffin or love becoming very best. then you immediately followed that with praises for ibaka, that neither of griffin or love "will NEVER HAVE" the type of defensive abilities that ibaka has. then you followed that up with an assumption that what ibaka lacks is coachable, and what love and griffin lack are not.

after all that you go on a rant about how you NEVER meant to put ibaka on a pedestal? :facepalm:

come on be clear and consistent or keep your thoughts to yourself.

Exactly. This is why I got confused. If he's saying Ibaka may be the best PF fine. I just didn't get what his point was :confused:

Confusious
06-22-2011, 10:09 PM
Kevin Love: Half false. He'll be the best PF in two years.

Blake Griffin: False. He'll never be considered the best. He's far too one dimensional. Sure, he's exciting, but I would never take him over K-Love.

koreancabbage
06-22-2011, 10:12 PM
Kevin Love: Half false. He'll be the best PF in two years.

Blake Griffin: False. He'll never be considered the best. He's far too one dimensional. Sure, he's exciting, but I would never take him over K-Love.

really? you're definitely underrating Blake Griffin. Love does not play defense, but then again, its hard to guage when he's on the worst team.

Rafer17
06-22-2011, 10:13 PM
Blake Griffin will definitely be the best power forward in the game within three years.

Confusious
06-22-2011, 10:19 PM
really? you're definitely underrating Blake Griffin. Love does not play defense, but then again, its hard to guage when he's on the worst team.
I care not for a human highlight reel player. Give me a player that would excel on a decent team, and he'll put that team over the hump.

All Blake does is put butts in seats, and gives those butts a little thrill. Hardly the kind of player that cares about winning.

FriedTofuz
06-22-2011, 10:19 PM
There is no correct answer to your question.

True-false questions require one to select a response (true or false) that shows recognition of correct or incorrect information that is presented to them.

This type of question, is opinion based, and therefore, it isnt a legitamate true and false question.

If your just trying to gather ones opinion, if they think Love and Griffen will be the best power forwards in the nba, then ask that, rather than this misleading title.

Based on how both of them are progressing, its likely they will be on the conversation, if they arent already.However, you must consider, that every year there is a new draft, and intriguing prospects come forward. Intriguing prospects creates more talent and more arguments as to who is the best. Because of this, we cannot know the answer to your true and false question, becaue its opinion based, and not based on true fact.

DoJoTheSlasher
06-22-2011, 10:25 PM
Dirk Nowitzki is miles ahead of any other Power Forward. When he starts to decline (3-4 years) then Griffin will prob be tops. Not Love.....

Swashcuff
06-22-2011, 10:29 PM
Dirk Nowitzki is miles ahead of any other Power Forward. When he starts to decline (3-4 years) then Griffin will prob be tops. Not Love.....

:confused:

That has nothing to do with this discussion though.

Hawkeye15
06-22-2011, 10:29 PM
Both will be top 3-4 PF's through their prime. Each may actually have a season here and there where they can make the claim as the best PF in the league.

Confusious
06-22-2011, 10:30 PM
Dirk Nowitzki is miles ahead of any other Power Forward. When he starts to decline (3-4 years) then Griffin will prob be tops. Not Love.....
Convenient of you to weigh in that argument after he wins the championship.

I see him declining earlier than your wishful 3-4 year plan, especially since he finally accomplished what he wanted.

Swashcuff
06-22-2011, 10:34 PM
There is no correct answer to your question.

True-false questions require one to select a response (true or false) that shows recognition of correct or incorrect information that is presented to them.

This type of question, is opinion based, and therefore, it isnt a legitamate true and false question.

If your just trying to gather ones opinion, if they think Love and Griffen will be the best power forwards in the nba, then ask that, rather than this misleading title.

Based on how both of them are progressing, its likely they will be on the conversation, if they arent already.However, you must consider, that every year there is a new draft, and intriguing prospects come forward. Intriguing prospects creates more talent and more arguments as to who is the best. Because of this, we cannot know the answer to your true and false question, becaue its opinion based, and not based on true fact.

You do when he says True or False he's actually asking what we thinks or rather our opinions on it. OBVIOUSLY there is no right or wrong answer because none of us can tell the future but he also did not mean it in a literal sense.

Swashcuff
06-22-2011, 10:35 PM
I care not for a human highlight reel player. Give me a player that would excel on a decent team, and he'll put that team over the hump.

All Blake does is put butts in seats, and gives those butts a little thrill. Hardly the kind of player that cares about winning.

:confused:

So Blake doesn't care about winning? Interesting.

FriedTofuz
06-22-2011, 10:40 PM
:confused:

That has nothing to do with this discussion though.

Yes, BASED ON what he said, hes saying Both Griffen and Love will not be the best, this is because he stated dirk will be.

Again, this is NOT my opinion, and I dont agree with it.

FriedTofuz
06-22-2011, 10:45 PM
You do when he says True or False he's actually asking what we thinks or rather our opinions on it. OBVIOUSLY there is no right or wrong answer because none of us can tell the future but he also did not mean it in a literal sense.

It isnt a legitamate true or false question. His thread title didnt say that, but thanks for the elaboration, I understood what he wanted to ask, but it wasnt in the right way. There is no need for the true and false part. Notice, I didnt solely reply with that remark? I also posted based on my opinion on LOVE/GRIFFEN being the future best PFs. .

Cano4prez
06-22-2011, 10:48 PM
Neither play great defense like TD/KG so no

Swashcuff
06-22-2011, 10:49 PM
Neither play great defense like TD/KG so no

Neither does Dirk but he's currently the best PF.

IVE GOT WOOD
06-22-2011, 10:53 PM
False...It'll be Blake Griffin and DeMarcus Cousins, who hopefully will have his head out of his *** within the next 3 years,because the kids a beast!

DR_1
06-22-2011, 10:53 PM
I would say so


Top 5 future pf's
Griffin
Love
Aldridge
Williams
Bosh

John Walls Era
06-22-2011, 10:57 PM
Griffin is better atm imo. Love is good, but how much better can he get? Griffin is going to be a HOF.

Cano4prez
06-22-2011, 10:59 PM
Neither does Dirk but he's currently the best PF.

And he's basically unguardable

Swashcuff
06-22-2011, 11:01 PM
And he's basically unguardable

who guarded Blake Griffin last season?

Hawkeye15
06-22-2011, 11:01 PM
Griffin is better atm imo. Love is good, but how much better can he get? Griffin is going to be a HOF.

same question analysts have been asking for 6 years. Some dudes just know how to play basketball.

KnicksR4Real
06-22-2011, 11:07 PM
false. no way love gets there. i say yes for griffin

ChumLee
06-22-2011, 11:07 PM
TRuE!!!

Cano4prez
06-22-2011, 11:11 PM
who guarded Blake Griffin last season?

Are you seriously comparing the two offensively? Neither play good D, Dirk has the best midrange J in the game while being more efficient and having a higher TS% than Griffin

D-Will4Prez
06-22-2011, 11:12 PM
Umm...Dirk.

Swashcuff
06-22-2011, 11:19 PM
Are you seriously comparing the two offensively? Neither play good D, Dirk has the best midrange J in the game while being more efficient and having a higher TS% than Griffin

I didn't compare anyone. I asked you a simple question. You said no one guarded Dirk I asked you who guarded Blake? I made no sort of comparison. In terms of shooting no PF in NBA history compares to Dirk.

John Walls Era
06-22-2011, 11:19 PM
same question analysts have been asking for 6 years. Some dudes just know how to play basketball.

This is the first year where he actually got to play. We'll see if he can take another step up.

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 11:20 PM
Lol Swash. You've made this forum a lot more fun for me. In general this place cracks me up. People here saying in 3 years Dirk at 36 or 37 will be the best PF etc. Or that Blake Griffin doesn't care about winning. The freaking guy stayed on the court after the Fisher game winner... and stared at the Lakers celebrating.. looking like he was going to cry.. while the rest of his teammates had already walked down the hall. Blake's one of those players who cares so much about losing that you notice how much it affects him in interviews etc. Guy gets depressed like.

Also lol on the guy nitpicking my choice of a title for this thread. I'm sorry if I mislead you sir.

PrettyBoyJ
06-22-2011, 11:21 PM
I'd say both have the ability and the work ethic to be the best.. Like many analyst say once Blake learns how to really play basketball he's going to own the league.. Love can develop the same way as well

Swashcuff
06-22-2011, 11:23 PM
Lol Swash. You've made this forum a lot more fun for me. In general this place cracks me up. People here saying in 3 years Dirk at 36 or 37 will be the best PF etc. Or that Blake Griffin doesn't care about winning. The freaking guy stayed on the court after the Fisher game winner... and stared at the Lakers celebrating.. looking like he was going to cry.. while the rest of his teammates had already walked down the hall. Blake's one of those players who cares so much about losing that you notice how much it affects him in interviews etc. Guy gets depressed like.

Also lol on the guy nitpicking my choice of a title for this thread. I'm sorry if I mislead you sir.

No problem bro, even though we got off on the wrong foot. Lol

tredigs
06-22-2011, 11:24 PM
same question analysts have been asking for 6 years. Some dudes just know how to play basketball.

Definitely. If K. Love continues to actively pursue improvement (like he always has... and succeeded in), then he still has many years of improvement ahead of him. And if that's the case, he'll be scary good. The guy's 22... yikes.

DoJoTheSlasher
06-22-2011, 11:24 PM
:confused:

That has nothing to do with this discussion though.

Maybe you should finish my post...

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 11:25 PM
No problem bro, even though we got off on the wrong foot. Lol

It's all good. Once you learned I wasn't trying to troll and was just misinformed and disagreeing, we worked it out :cheers:

m26555
06-22-2011, 11:26 PM
Kevin Love: Half false. He'll be the best PF in two years.

Blake Griffin: False. He'll never be considered the best. He's far too one dimensional.Sure, he's exciting, but I would never take him over K-Love.
I'm guessing you didn't watch one Clipper game all year. Calling a guy who averages 23 and 12 (not to mention four assists as well) "one-dimensional" is absolutely ridiculous.

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 11:27 PM
Definitely. If K. Love continues to actively pursue improvement (like he always has... and succeeded in), then he still has many years of improvement ahead of him. And if that's the case, he'll be scary good. The guy's 22... yikes.

LMAO! I seriously laughed out loud about him deleting a comment. I thought it was pretty innocent. I agree about Kevin Love. I hate how people rip him up so bad like he's a phony. The guy just cashed in one of the best seasons of all time, bad team or not. Like you said he's only 22 just like Blake Griffin. Blake was a rookie and Kevin Love was a beast who needed to be unleashed off the Minnesota bench.

ManRam
06-22-2011, 11:31 PM
Don't know what has been said, but it depends on their ability to play defense. Both are amazingly terrible at defense. They also have to prove that their offensive games are conducive to winning (I'm not too worried about that).

It could happen, and probably will happen, but they both have a lot to do in order to get there.

dnewguy
06-22-2011, 11:40 PM
False, they are low IQ players. They will put up stats but will never be fundamentally effective like Duncan and Garnett.

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 11:44 PM
False, they are low IQ players. They will put up stats but will never be fundamentally effective like Duncan and Garnett.

Woah woah WTF!? This is seriously offensive. Both are very high IQ players. Both adaptive, both know what they need to work on. Both read the plays right and are unselfish. You seriously have no business posting this garbage buddy. No need to completely fabricate to make a point. This is on par with you saying Blake isn't athletic.. or Kevin Love is a terrible shooter.

Swashcuff
06-22-2011, 11:48 PM
Woah woah WTF!? This is seriously offensive. Both are very high IQ players. Both adaptive, both know what they need to work on. Both read the plays right and are unselfish. You seriously have no business posting this garbage buddy. No need to completely fabricate to make a point. This is on par with you saying Blake isn't athletic.. or Kevin Love is a terrible shooter.

That poster know not of what he speaks. Just ignore and move on.

Raoul Duke
06-22-2011, 11:51 PM
Griffin has the physical tools to to everything well but he needs to develop his skills and instincts. Love has tremendous natural skills and instincts but not the prototype "elite NBA athlete" body, so his struggle will be figuring out how to use his body type effectively. I think they both have incredible potential, but I'm not sure that either one will ever be as complete as Duncan or Garnett.

And that means they both suck.

Clippersfan86
06-22-2011, 11:51 PM
That poster know not of what he speaks. Just ignore and move on.

Hold me back! :mad:

Spiggity_ace
06-22-2011, 11:52 PM
i think bosh and aldridge will be in the running too, but i see blake being number 1 the rest i can't say, greg monroe will be up there too depending on if he changes to a 4

Hawkeye15
06-22-2011, 11:55 PM
False, they are low IQ players. They will put up stats but will never be fundamentally effective like Duncan and Garnett.

Love's IQ is what has made him an all star. WTF are you talking about?

drobe86
06-22-2011, 11:59 PM
No because each guys game is not well rounded. Griffin can only dunk and rebound. Love can only rebound and shoot the 3.... Neither guy mans up and plays d well. They'll be stars because fantasy bball geeks will look at the numbers and say wow... But neither guy has a chance at winning a championship... Just saying

NetsPaint
06-23-2011, 12:00 AM
Won't be surprised to see Griffin be an MVP candidate for years to come. He has the skills, heart, athleticism, and has no quit.

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 12:01 AM
Love's IQ is what has made him an all star. WTF are you talking about?

Why would you even bother Hawk. Anyone who has watch Love play JUST ONCE would see that he has a fantastic IQ for a player his age. However we're talking about Dnewguy here. Why even bother?

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 12:02 AM
No because each guys game is not well rounded. Griffin can only dunk and rebound. Love can only rebound and shoot the 3.... Neither guy mans up and plays d well. They'll be stars because fantasy bball geeks will look at the numbers and say wow... But neither guy has a chance at winning a championship... Just saying

There you go again. You really never cease to amaze dude. Smh. I would really love to take a peek into that crystal ball of yours.

Clippersfan86
06-23-2011, 12:06 AM
No because each guys game is not well rounded. Griffin can only dunk and rebound. Love can only rebound and shoot the 3.... Neither guy mans up and plays d well. They'll be stars because fantasy bball geeks will look at the numbers and say wow... But neither guy has a chance at winning a championship... Just saying

I've never met such a ******** Mavs fan... so I'm tempted to believe you're a recent bandwagon addition that traveled from the Lakers bandwagon.

drobe86
06-23-2011, 12:11 AM
There you go again. You really never cease to amaze dude. Smh. I would really love to take a peek into that crystal ball of yours.


Ok so you're telling me the Clippers or the TWolves can win a championship? Again, I'm not hating on the players I think both guys are good. But let's be realistic

drobe86
06-23-2011, 12:12 AM
I've never met such a ******** Mavs fan... so I'm tempted to believe you're a recent bandwagon addition that traveled from the Lakers bandwagon.

Yea ok... I jumped on the bandwagon in 1993 bud.... Nice try though

Mplsman
06-23-2011, 12:13 AM
Yes, eventually.

They are at least the 2 most promising power forwards for the future.

Clippersfan86
06-23-2011, 12:14 AM
Yea ok... I jumped on the bandwagon in 1993 bud.... Nice try though

Well congratulations then. You've been remembered by me as the least knowledgeable Mavericks fan I've ever encountered. Kudos to you.

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 12:17 AM
Ok so you're telling me the Clippers or the TWolves can win a championship? Again, I'm not hating on the players I think both guys are good. But let's be realistic

12 years ago if you told 1000 people that a skinny german 7 footer who played like a Shooting Guard and couldn't guard if his life depended on it was going to lead the Mavs to a championship they all of them would have laughed in your face.

Tell me who's laughing now?

They would have thought that they were being "realistic" right?

drobe86
06-23-2011, 12:18 AM
Well congratulations then. You've been remembered by me as the least knowledgeable Mavericks fan I've ever encountered. Kudos to you.


If I'm not knowledgeable because I know the Twolves or Clips aren't winning a championship then so be it. I know you're a fan man but be real... The Clippers are one of if not THE worse franchise in the NBA. They don't spend money, and the good players they draft will all leave once their rookie contracts are up. So how exactly are they winning a championship?

As for Blake Griffin he's a good player. But at this stage he can only dunk and rebound. He has inconsistent jumpshot, he isn't a Great ball handler, and he doesn't defend all that well man on man either. He's a great help defender though

Clippersfan86
06-23-2011, 12:21 AM
If I'm not knowledgeable because I know the Twolves or Clips aren't winning a championship then so be it. I know you're a fan man but be real... The Clippers are one of if not THE worse franchise in the NBA. They don't spend money, and the good players they draft will all leave once their rookie contracts are up. So how exactly are they winning a championship?

As for Blake Griffin he's a good player. But at this stage he can only dunk and rebound. He has inconsistent jumpshot, he isn't a Great ball handler, and he doesn't defend all that well man on man either. He's a great help defender though

I'll be the first to admit HISTORICALLY the Clippers are probably the worst sports franchise ever. That has nothing to do with the future though. 2 legit franchise players, a solid coach, a very active and passionate GM. Great cap situation. More young talent than ever before.

My comments to you have nothing to do with you saying the Wolves and Clippers will never win a ring. What they are about.. is you saying Love and Griffin are low IQ players when that's CLEARLY false. Both are known as extremely intelligent players. It would be like me telling you Dirk is a crappy shooter. If I said that would you not think I was crazy too?

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 12:22 AM
If I'm not knowledgeable because I know the Twolves or Clips aren't winning a championship then so be it. I know you're a fan man but be real... The Clippers are one of if not THE worse franchise in the NBA. They don't spend money, and the good players they draft will all leave once their rookie contracts are up. So how exactly are they winning a championship?

As for Blake Griffin he's a good player. But at this stage he can only dunk and rebound. He has inconsistent jumpshot, he isn't a Great ball handler, and he doesn't defend all that well man on man either. He's a great help defender though

Blake Griffin is one of the best ball handlers at the PF position in the entire NBA. I trust that that is a typo right?

You really don't know that players develop don't you? Smh. I guess only if a player plays for the Mavs he'd develop. Any other franchise he's going to remain the person he was in his first year in the league. Smh. :rolleyes:

Clippersfan86
06-23-2011, 12:22 AM
12 years ago if you told 1000 people that a skinny german 7 footer who played like a Shooting Guard and couldn't guard if his life depended on it was going to lead the Mavs to a championship they all of them would have laughed in your face.

Tell me who's laughing now?

They would have thought that they were being "realistic" right?

:worthy:

drobe86
06-23-2011, 12:24 AM
12 years ago if you told 1000 people that a skinny german 7 footer who played like a Shooting Guard and couldn't guard if his life depended on it was going to lead the Mavs to a championship they all of them would have laughed in your face.

Tell me who's laughing now?

They would have thought that they were being "realistic" right?


Lol... The Mavs have won 50 games each of the last 11 seasons.. The Mavs didn't always play up to their potential in the playoffs but were always in the mix. The LA Clippers have 4 playoff appearances in their history since 1984. They don't spend money so they won't get free agents. And their good draft picks all leave once they become restricted. Griffin looks like a he has potential to be GREAT but playing for the Clips is the worst thing that could have happened to him. HE'll be Elgin Baylor 2.0 (not in a sense of his game, but he'll be fantastic and put up numbers and never win have any winning success)

Clippersfan86
06-23-2011, 12:24 AM
Blake Griffin is one of the best ball handlers at the PF position in the entire NBA. I trust that that is a typo right?

You really don't know that players develop don't you? Smh. I guess only if a player plays for the Mavs he'd develop. Any other franchise he's going to remain the person he was in his first year in the league. Smh. :rolleyes:

Also he said Blake is a great help defender :crazy:. Blake's actually a solid man defender and a TERRIBLE help defender. He's absolutely horrendous as a last defense at the rim. Again amazed by this Mavs fans knowledge.

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 12:25 AM
Lol... The Mavs have won 50 games each of the last 11 seasons.. The Mavs didn't always play up to their potential in the playoffs but were always in the mix. The LA Clippers have 4 playoff appearances in their history since 1984. They don't spend money so they won't get free agents. And their good draft picks all leave once they become restricted. Griffin looks like a he has potential to be GREAT but playing for the Clips is the worst thing that could have happened to him. HE'll be Elgin Baylor 2.0 (not in a sense of his game, but he'll be fantastic and put up numbers and never win have any winning success)

Tell me something.

Do you ever understand any debate you get yourself into?

drobe86
06-23-2011, 12:25 AM
I'll be the first to admit HISTORICALLY the Clippers are probably the worst sports franchise ever. That has nothing to do with the future though. 2 legit franchise players, a solid coach, a very active and passionate GM. Great cap situation. More young talent than ever before.

My comments to you have nothing to do with you saying the Wolves and Clippers will never win a ring. What they are about.. is you saying Love and Griffin are low IQ players when that's CLEARLY false. Both are known as extremely intelligent players. It would be like me telling you Dirk is a crappy shooter. If I said that would you not think I was crazy too?

I never said neither guy had a low IQ... I think you're arguing with the wrong guy

E.O.21
06-23-2011, 12:26 AM
debateable

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 12:28 AM
Also he said Blake is a great help defender :crazy:. Blake's actually a solid man defender and a TERRIBLE help defender. He's absolutely horrendous as a last defense at the rim. Again amazed by this Mavs fans knowledge.

Trust me I had a longgg debate with him a couple days ago and he is EXTREMELY inconsistent and his basis for his opinion often fluctuates when discussing Mavs players (especially Dirk) as compared to when discussing non Mavs players. From his posts I can tell that he doesn't watch the game as much as he claims however. Oh and heads up after he reads this he's basically going to gloat on the fact that his Mavs won the championship.

Clippersfan86
06-23-2011, 12:28 AM
I never said neither guy had a low IQ... I think you're arguing with the wrong guy

You're right I had it twisted but you still are crazy to say they aren't well rounded. They aren't strong defensively but they are arguably the most well rounded PF's in the game already. Between their scoring, rebounding and passing.

drobe86
06-23-2011, 12:28 AM
Tell me something.

Do you ever understand any debate you get yourself into?


I do. People are talking about are Klove and Griffin the next great PF's. The answer to that question is no. Because to me GREAT is defined by Championships. Both guys are good players with the potential to be GREAT. But if they stay with their respective teams, which I'm sure they will.... They'll be have a very productive career statistics wise. But will come up small in the only category that matters.... CHAMPIONSHIPS

MrfadeawayJB
06-23-2011, 12:29 AM
Griffin yes, ecspecially when he becomes more balanced offensively. Love will always be a top 10 or near top 10 player, but will always be under rated because of his quiet demeanor and style of play

Clippersfan86
06-23-2011, 12:30 AM
Trust me I had a longgg debate with him a couple days ago and he is EXTREMELY inconsistent and his basis for his opinion often fluctuates when discussing Mavs players (especially Dirk) as compared to when discussing non Mavs players. From his posts I can tell that he doesn't watch the game as much as he claims however. Oh and heads up after he reads this he's basically going to gloat on the fact that his Mavs won the championship.

He's not the typical Mavs fan. I actually get along well with 99 percent of Mavs fans and they weren't cocky at all after winning. I had a lot of fun rooting for the Mavs in the playoffs. I'm not sure if he's a legit fan since 93' like he proclaims.

MagicBucsSox
06-23-2011, 12:31 AM
I got LaMarcus Alridge #1 in 3yrs

E.O.21
06-23-2011, 12:31 AM
I do. People are talking about are Klove and Griffin the next great PF's. The answer to that question is no. Because to me GREAT is defined by Championships. Both guys are good players with the potential to be GREAT. But if they stay with their respective teams, which I'm sure they will.... They'll be have a very productive career statistics wise. But will come up small in the only category that matters.... CHAMPIONSHIPS

:facepalm:

drobe86
06-23-2011, 12:31 AM
Also he said Blake is a great help defender :crazy:. Blake's actually a solid man defender and a TERRIBLE help defender. He's absolutely horrendous as a last defense at the rim. Again amazed by this Mavs fans knowledge.

I've seen Blake make some sick nasty blocks from the weakside. But if you say so. Man on man I wasn't all that impressed.

Clippersfan86
06-23-2011, 12:32 AM
I do. People are talking about are Klove and Griffin the next great PF's. The answer to that question is no. Because to me GREAT is defined by Championships. Both guys are good players with the potential to be GREAT. But if they stay with their respective teams, which I'm sure they will.... They'll be have a very productive career statistics wise. But will come up small in the only category that matters.... CHAMPIONSHIPS

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. This is clearly agenda driven. I bet you before Dirk got his first ring... it wasn't all about championships. Now that the Mavs have a single ring.. suddenly your entire legacy is based on rings. The Clippers and Wolves have a ton of young talent. For you to claim Blake or Love will NEVER win rings is pretty bold.

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 12:35 AM
I do. People are talking about are Klove and Griffin the next great PF's. The answer to that question is no. Because to me GREAT is defined by Championships. Both guys are good players with the potential to be GREAT. But if they stay with their respective teams, which I'm sure they will.... They'll be have a very productive career statistics wise. But will come up small in the only category that matters.... CHAMPIONSHIPS

Barkley and Malone were the 2 best PFs in the NBA for years.

I asked you 12 years ago would you if you said that Dirk would lead the Mavs to a title that people would have laughed at you and 12 years later Mavs fans would be the ones laughing. Understand?

So how could you say NOW that those two players will never win a title in their life? You must be the owner of a damn good crystal ball if you could make such a statement. Because none of us could tell the future however 12 years ago based on Dirk's skill set and style of play no one would have thought he would be the type of player to lead a team to a championship.

The who 11 50+ wins seasons is completely irrelevant. That is what happened during the 12 years.

Now tell me do you understand? Or did you undeniable believe that by Dirk's 2nd season in the league that he'd lead the Mavs to a title.

Cano4prez
06-23-2011, 12:36 AM
Cmon guys.. there is no chance

drobe86
06-23-2011, 12:37 AM
He's not the typical Mavs fan. I actually get along well with 99 percent of Mavs fans and they weren't cocky at all after winning. I had a lot of fun rooting for the Mavs in the playoffs. I'm not sure if he's a legit fan since 93' like he proclaims.

Lol... wow that's a low blow. I watched the Mavs when we drafted Kidd the first time, Jim Jackson, and Monster Mash. I also had the displeasure of watching bums like Popeye Jones, Tim Leglar and the journeyman Chris Gatling. You can't question my fanhood man, Anything Cowboys, Mavs, or Rangers is my heart...


And I haven't mentioned our 2010-2011 championship run one time in this thread since I've been posting. I'm getting a bad wrap

FriedTofuz
06-23-2011, 12:40 AM
I'm guessing you didn't watch one Clipper game all year. Calling a guy who averages 23 and 12 (not to mention four assists as well) "one-dimensional" is absolutely ridiculous.

There are two types of players in terms of dimensions. One dimensional, and two dimensional. one-dimensional players, are players who only one one of the two dimensions of the game. Those dimentions are offense and defense. For one to be a two dimentional player, one must play both OFFENSE AND DEFENSE. All those skills griffen posses are regarded as offense.


False, they are low IQ players. They will put up stats but will never be fundamentally effective like Duncan and Garnett.

:speechless: You clearly havent seen any play of their game. Your statements are contradicting each other. If they are have low IQ, how will they put up good stats? why is their assist at a solid number for a big man? Why is their assist to turnover ratio very low? If they didnt have high ball iq, they would not be able to make appropriate decisions to make plays while avoiding turnovers. Your statement is completly false, if you even looked at stats, you could have analyzed that both are high IQ players.


False...It'll be Blake Griffin and DeMarcus Cousins, who hopefully will have his head out of his *** within the next 3 years,because the kids a beast!




I would say so


Top 5 future pf's
Griffin
Love
Aldridge
Williams
Bosh

Bosh? You dont even have Gasol or dirk.Who's williams? Your already placing someone as a future top power foward when they havent played one single game? Also, williams has said he is a small forward and will play that in the nba.


Love's IQ is what has made him an all star. WTF are you talking about?

Exactly. People dont even look at stats and analyze it to make assumptions. Because some players play for a bad team, they mostly subjected to negative opinions from others.

drobe86
06-23-2011, 12:40 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. This is clearly agenda driven. I bet you before Dirk got his first ring... it wasn't all about championships. Now that the Mavs have a single ring.. suddenly your entire legacy is based on rings. The Clippers and Wolves have a ton of young talent. For you to claim Blake or Love will NEVER win rings is pretty bold.


Now you're telling me I have an Agenda? Ok man... whatever. I'm not going to argue with you because I feel you're just swashcuff are simply ganging up on me now. And yes you're right the Clips and Wolves DO have aton of young talent. But I'm sure both guys will stay with those respective franchises. And as long as they are in those playoffs and the number 1 option for those teams they won't win a ring. And that's common sense because the good free agents won't go there. At least tell me you understand my point...

Clippersfan86
06-23-2011, 12:41 AM
Lol... wow that's a low blow. I watched the Mavs when we drafted Kidd the first time, Jim Jackson, and Monster Mash. I also had the displeasure of watching bums like Popeye Jones, Tim Leglar and the journeyman Chris Gatling. You can't question my fanhood man, Anything Cowboys, Mavs, or Rangers is my heart...


And I haven't mentioned our 2010-2011 championship run one time in this thread since I've been posting. I'm getting a bad wrap

Well I apologize for personally attacking you.. but it just seems like you're getting a big head after you got the ring. I truly am happy for Mavs fans and was totally rooting for you.. but you don't think it's a bit too soon and unfair to proclaim the Clippers/Wolves have no shot at a ring in the future? Try to remember how the state of the Mavericks was before Cuban bought the team since you were a fan. Perennially bad laughingstock. Worst training and locker room facilities ever. Nobody gave a ***** about you guys.

Instead of only living in the moment.. if you need clarity or humility try remembering those days. When the team you loved was the Wolves or Clippers. See what I'm saying? I understand if you disagree with this thread but no need to claim these guys can never win a ring. Gotta start somewhere.

drobe86
06-23-2011, 12:42 AM
Barkley and Malone were the 2 best PFs in the NBA for years.

I asked you 12 years ago would you if you said that Dirk would lead the Mavs to a title that people would have laughed at you and 12 years later Mavs fans would be the ones laughing. Understand?

So how could you say NOW that those two players will never win a title in their life? You must be the owner of a damn good crystal ball if you could make such a statement. Because none of us could tell the future however 12 years ago based on Dirk's skill set and style of play no one would have thought he would be the type of player to lead a team to a championship.

The who 11 50+ wins seasons is completely irrelevant. That is what happened during the 12 years.

Now tell me do you understand? Or did you undeniable believe that by Dirk's 2nd season in the league that he'd lead the Mavs to a title.


I won't say in I knew that in his 2nd season. But once Mark Cuban bought the team it was inevitable that we would win a title... He's the best owner in sports and his team will always be in position to compete for a title. Now whether they win it or not is a totally different argument. But they will always be competitive....

drobe86
06-23-2011, 12:47 AM
Well I apologize for personally attacking you.. but it just seems like you're getting a big head after you got the ring. I truly am happy for Mavs fans and was totally rooting for you.. but you don't think it's a bit too soon and unfair to proclaim the Clippers/Wolves have no shot at a ring in the future? Try to remember how the state of the Mavericks was before Cuban bought the team since you were a fan. Perennially bad laughingstock. Worst training and locker room facilities ever. Nobody gave a ***** about you guys.

Instead of only living in the moment.. if you need clarity or humility try remembering those days. When the team you loved was the Wolves or Clippers. See what I'm saying? I understand if you disagree with this thread but no need to claim these guys can never win a ring. Gotta start somewhere.



O I agree. The Mavs from about '95 to 2000 were painful to watch. The team sucked because ownership was terrible. And that's the root of the problem for the Clips. They will always be 2nd fiddle in LA because of you know who, and Donald Sterling is terrible. Minnesota is even worse because of Kahn, and the fact that they will never attract a decent free agent. I'm not trying to hate on either team or their fanbases. I was only being realistic... You're a clips fan and I admire that, but you have to know its going to be next to impossible...

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 12:47 AM
I won't say in I knew that in his 2nd season. But once Mark Cuban bought the team it was inevitable that we would win a title... He's the best owner in sports and his team will always be in position to compete for a title. Now whether they win it or not is a totally different argument. But they will always be competitive....

So then how can you say that the Blake nor Love will ever win a championship?

Did you know he was the best owner in sports when he bought the team?

Also Cuban bought the Mavericks in January of 2000, midway through Dirk's second season, so that contradicts your point.

drobe86
06-23-2011, 12:53 AM
So then how can you say that the Blake nor Love will ever win a championship?

Did you know he was the best owner in sports when he bought the team?

Also Cuban bought the Mavericks in January of 2000, midway through Dirk's second season, so that contradicts your point.


Cuban did buy in January but he wasn't going to make them a contender in 3 months lol... In 2001 his first full year I knew I was going to die having enjoyed a Mavs World Championship.

I'm saying Blake nor Love won't win one because of their respective situations. If those guys get traded to teams that can contend then possibly they can win one, but what are the chances that happens? Unless once they get older they ring chase. Which doesn't help your legacy at all...

Clippersfan86
06-23-2011, 12:54 AM
O I agree. The Mavs from about '95 to 2000 were painful to watch. The team sucked because ownership was terrible. And that's the root of the problem for the Clips. They will always be 2nd fiddle in LA because of you know who, and Donald Sterling is terrible. Minnesota is even worse because of Kahn, and the fact that they will never attract a decent free agent. I'm not trying to hate on either team or their fanbases. I was only being realistic... You're a clips fan and I admire that, but you have to know its going to be next to impossible...

Owners only have so much impact on average. A super involved owner like Cuban is going to have a massive impact but a very apathetic owner like Sterling who doesn't make any of our team decisions has almost 0 impact on the team. The only thing he does is give us a bad rap. Sterling isn't going to ruin what we have. It was Dunleavy and Elgin Baylor our GM's who let players walk and were douchebags. Sure Sterling is frugal but in the last 10 years or so.. he's spent consistently on all very good players worth keeping. Miles and Q Rich wanted more than they were worth and we kept Kaman, Brand and Maggette.

willmatic
06-23-2011, 01:05 AM
nope...under a full season with carmelo and understanding how to play with each other amare will be even better then he was last year

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 01:06 AM
Cuban did buy in January but he wasn't going to make them a contender in 3 months lol... In 2001 his first full year I knew I was going to die having enjoyed a Mavs World Championship.

I'm saying Blake nor Love won't win one because of their respective situations. If those guys get traded to teams that can contend then possibly they can win one, but what are the chances that happens? Unless once they get older they ring chase. Which doesn't help your legacy at all...

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Charles Barkley and Karl Malone viewed as the two best PFs in the 90s? Wasn't Charles known for his offense and rebounding much like Love? So why can't 2 players who never won be viewed as the best.

Also when did you start thinking Dirk was the best PF of all time prior to or after winning his title?

I really can't understand the double standards that you have. I mean being a homer is one thing but you are taking it a bit too far. Its seems as though to you only the Mavs can win.

In every discussion I've had with you you seem to think that every player is not going to win a championship until they get old and go ring chasing. So tell me this other than Dirk and players who play for the Mavs. Who are players that you see have it in them to win a championship in the future, if any?

mohye
06-23-2011, 02:18 AM
Griffin yes. Love no hes overrated... id like to see him put up similar #s on a winning team first.

BullsFTW
06-23-2011, 02:20 AM
Blake will be the best Power Forward in the NBA in a couple of years.

John Walls Era
06-23-2011, 02:23 AM
Thank you NBA forum...

Bruno
06-23-2011, 03:17 AM
I'd say yes. If healthy.

Ebbs
06-23-2011, 03:25 AM
I see:

Blake, Aldridge, Love as 1,2,3 in the next 3 years.

Forgot to add Dirk to you're list.

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 08:56 AM
Griffin yes. Love no hes overrated... id like to see him put up similar #s on a winning team first.

So can't you say the same for Blake? :confused:

S-Dot
06-23-2011, 10:42 AM
Barring injury from his ridiculous style of play and his ability to develop a consistent shot similar to LaMacrus Aldrige, I think Griffin will definitely be there.

Love has to become a first option, and also needs to show that his production will lead to wins. Thats why people didnt acknowledge Zach Randolph for so many years. I think he will be a top 10 PF though.

Hawkeye15
06-23-2011, 10:50 AM
I do. People are talking about are Klove and Griffin the next great PF's. The answer to that question is no. Because to me GREAT is defined by Championships. Both guys are good players with the potential to be GREAT. But if they stay with their respective teams, which I'm sure they will.... They'll be have a very productive career statistics wise. But will come up small in the only category that matters.... CHAMPIONSHIPS

I can guarantee 100% this wasn't your argument a month ago, but now that your boy has a ring you change your tune.

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 10:51 AM
Barring injury from his ridiculous style of play and his ability to develop a consistent shot similar to LaMacrus Aldrige, I think Griffin will definitely be there.

Love has to become a first option, and also needs to show that his production will lead to wins. Thats why people didnt acknowledge Zach Randolph for so many years. I think he will be a top 10 PF though.

Why does Love have to prove this and not Blake?

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 10:52 AM
I can guarantee 100% this wasn't your argument a month ago, but now that your boy has a ring you change your tune.

He changes his tune in every argument. Now he's saying only Mavs players have it in them to win championships and that's why they won. Smh.

S-Dot
06-23-2011, 10:55 AM
Why does Love have to prove this and not Blake?

Love has played 3 seasons. I will say the same about Blake if his team is in the same spot they are now after 3 seasons. Plus, Blake's rookie numbers were insane so you would think the team will improve greatly over the next couple of years. I can't say the same yet for Love, though he can prove me wrong.

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 11:00 AM
Love has played 3 seasons. I will say the same about Blake if his team is in the same spot they are now after 3 seasons. Plus, Blake's rookie numbers were insane so you would think the team will improve greatly over the next couple of years. I can't say the same yet for Love, though he can prove me wrong.

1 as a starter.

Had Blake come off the bench in his first two seasons in the league it would not be expected to see him having much impact on his team's W-L record.

Because Blake's rookie numbers were amazing you'd expect the team to improve? IMO there is a double standard there. From a #s standpoint Love was the better player and is only 1 year older so why wouldn't his team also be expected to improve? Because they were bad in the 3 years he was there?

Il Mago50
06-23-2011, 11:01 AM
How do you compare either to Duncan...

Duncan isn't a top 10 all-time player because he can put up 20 and 11 on the offensive end without trying...

He is a top 10 all-time because he is one of the fundamentally best players that have ever played this game. He is because the was a great passer and a leader. He is because he came up big when it counted. He is because he is a great defender and shot blocker during the course of his career.

Blake Griffin and Timmy D and apples and oranges, as Griffin essentially lets his athleticism do most of the work on the court, isn't a big defensive presence, and isn't super fundamentally sound although he is still young.

Love is a horrible comparison because he can't defend and struggles to score in the post against big defenders. He is a very good player but no way in hell he's top PF material. For me at least, he's a better rebounding version of David West, a guy who makes a few all-star games but on a contender, is a 2nd or third option on the offensive end while needing to have a big center to cover up his weaknesses on defense.

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 11:04 AM
How do you compare either to Duncan...

Duncan isn't a top 10 all-time player because he can put up 20 and 11 on the offensive end without trying...

He is a top 10 all-time because he is one of the fundamentally best players that have ever played this game. He is because the was a great passer and a leader. He is because he came up big when it counted. He is because he is a great defender and shot blocker during the course of his career.

Blake Griffin and Timmy D and apples and oranges, as Griffin essentially lets his athleticism do most of the work on the court, isn't a big defensive presence, and isn't super fundamentally sound although he is still young.

Love is a horrible comparison because he can't defend and struggles to score in the post against big defenders. He is a very good player but no way in hell he's top PF material. For me at least, he's a better rebounding version of David West, a guy who makes a few all-star games but on a contender, is a 2nd or third option on the offensive end while needing to have a big center to cover up his weaknesses on defense.

So will they ever be considered the two best PFs in the NBA. There can only be one Tim Duncan and he'll never be that guy again.

S-Dot
06-23-2011, 11:09 AM
1 as a starter.

Had Blake come off the bench in his first two seasons in the league it would not be expected to see him having much impact on his team's W-L record.

Because Blake's rookie numbers were amazing you'd expect the team to improve? IMO there is a double standard there. From a #s standpoint Love was the better player and is only 1 year older so why wouldn't his team also be expected to improve? Because they were bad in the 3 years he was there?

I think as he improves with his good numbers, the team will improve as well. The clips showed signs of becoming a better team towards the end of the season with Blake at the forefront. Cant say the same for Love and his Twolves team this season. I'm not knocking Love; I think his style of play is something the NBA needs but I give Blake the advantage in this one if you are comparing the two right now.

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 11:14 AM
I think as he improves with his good numbers, the team will improve as well. The clips showed signs of becoming a better team towards the end of the season with Blake at the forefront. Cant say the same for Love and his Twolves team this season. I'm not knocking Love; I think his style of play is something the NBA needs but I give Blake the advantage in this one if you are comparing the two right now.

I understand your POV. IMO however Blake also had a better supporting cast. I do agree though.

Hugbees
06-23-2011, 11:24 AM
Griffin right behind Dirk and Amare. Love hell no..
Btw these Tim Duncan comparisons are ludicrous. There are no players that remotely resemble a young/prime Tim Duncan in today's league.

Il Mago50
06-23-2011, 11:37 AM
So will they ever be considered the two best PFs in the NBA. There can only be one Tim Duncan and he'll never be that guy again.

No. When Griffin develops a deadly mid-range game, I'll put Griffin over Amare. When Griffin become as skillful in the post and as big a threat from all angles on offense and defense as Pau, I'll put him over Pau.

Right now, Amare, Dirk and Pau are easily above Griffin. I might've forgotten someone but those two definitely are. Love isn't even in the discussion for me.

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 11:41 AM
No. When Griffin develops a deadly mid-range game, I'll put Griffin over Amare. When Griffin become as skillful in the post and as big a threat from all angles on offense and defense as Pau, I'll put him over Pau.

Right now, Amare, Dirk and Pau are easily above Griffin. I might've forgotten someone but those two definitely are. Love isn't even in the discussion for me.

The question is not about right now however. It's about in the future. Do you really expect Pau and Dirk to be playing at this level in the next 3 year?

S-Dot
06-23-2011, 11:43 AM
No. When Griffin develops a deadly mid-range game, I'll put Griffin over Amare. When Griffin become as skillful in the post and as big a threat from all angles on offense and defense as Pau, I'll put him over Pau.

Right now, Amare, Dirk and Pau are easily above Griffin. I might've forgotten someone but those two definitely are. Love isn't even in the discussion for me.

I think he's asking if in 5 seasons, if/when Amare and Pau's games deteriorate, will Griffin be better if/when he shows signs of improvement. I'm a huge Knick and Amare fan and I'm not sure he'll be this effective at 34 years old. Pau's game seems sustainable if he stays on a good team.

Kobe4Life
06-23-2011, 11:48 AM
Within 3 seasons. They will hold that perch for a good 5-10 seasons like KG/Duncan did. My answer is true. I think both are going to keep improving and rip up the competition for years to come.

True Griffin . Completely False Love.

tbone2171
06-23-2011, 11:53 AM
Those numbers are right around my absolute prime numbers for Blake. I always say in his absolute peak if he stays healthy... he's going to put up around..


26-28 ppg
13 rpg
5 apg
1.5 spg
1 bpg

on efficient numbers. If he hits that peak.. and sustains it a couple seasons he's going to be right there with Duncan, Malone, Garnett and Barkley as the best PF ever.

:laugh2: ..Guy has had one season. Let's wait 4-5 yrs before we start talking about best PF ever.

mttwlsn16
06-23-2011, 11:53 AM
I do. People are talking about are Klove and Griffin the next great PF's. The answer to that question is no. Because to me GREAT is defined by Championships. Both guys are good players with the potential to be GREAT. But if they stay with their respective teams, which I'm sure they will.... They'll be have a very productive career statistics wise. But will come up small in the only category that matters.... CHAMPIONSHIPS

so by what youre saying lebron is not a great player :confused:

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 11:55 AM
so by what youre saying lebron is not a great player :confused:

No what he's saying that Dirk wasn't a great player 3 weeks ago. Suddenly like a strike of lightening now. HES GREAT!!!

save the knicks
06-23-2011, 11:56 AM
Griffins HGH enlarged muscles will tear his knees apart before he gets to that level

Swashcuff
06-23-2011, 12:00 PM
Griffins HGH enlarged muscles will tear his knees apart before he gets to that level

I know! Just like Barry Bonds right. Smh

kdspurman
06-23-2011, 12:11 PM
Dirk Nowitzki is miles ahead of any other Power Forward. When he starts to decline (3-4 years) then Griffin will prob be tops. Not Love.....

Miles ahead in terms of FT shooting, and overall shooting absolutely

DoJoTheSlasher
06-23-2011, 12:22 PM
Miles ahead in terms of FT shooting, and overall shooting absolutely

And clutch.

kdspurman
06-23-2011, 12:41 PM
And clutch.

Most definitely.

Rio40
06-24-2011, 10:37 AM
Yes on both

Chronz
06-24-2011, 11:41 AM
Gotta admit I didnt think I would see the day when Mavs fans would start pulling out the championship card. Even after winning the title I would think seeing their star player fail throughout his prime, which is when winning a chip means the most, would give them the proper perspective on the matter.

LOL @ putting any stock into his title odds, Dirks title odds were pretty low so whats that show you? The sheer amount of years they have left throughout their careers make any sort of prediction on the matter truly foolish and exposes drobe as a homer. FA wont come to LA, lmfao yea right, typical response from the LAC ignorant. Clippers have been REAL targets for all sorts of players, besides hes acting as if thats the sole method of acquiring talent or if the Clippers didnt already have an established core that simply needs to grow together.

Most importantly however, CHIPS dont make you great. Anyone who defines greatness by championships won, has no clue on how to measure the INDIVIDUAL. I use this comparison all the time and NOBODY has ever been able to refute this sound logic, if greatness were as easy to calculate as chip+all-star stats = greatness, then Charles Barkley and Karl Malone would not be held in higher regard as PF's than Elvin Hayes.

Im not saying winning doesnt matter, Im saying winning it all is not the most important barometer for greatness, anyone suggesting otherwise needs a history lesson. Titles can solidify greatness but plenty of losers have won titles without being overrated. And anyone who needed to see Dirk win a title to solidify his greatness was a fool.


Why do people have this misguided notion that it takes the heart of a champion to win a title? ANYONE CAN WIN THE TITLE, IF his support is great enough. Not everyone can produce at an efficient yet prolific rate whilst making his teammates better. These are the TRUE signs of greatness.

Chronz
06-24-2011, 11:50 AM
Dirk Nowitzki is miles ahead of any other Power Forward. When he starts to decline (3-4 years) then Griffin will prob be tops. Not Love.....
Based on.......?

Frantico
06-24-2011, 12:06 PM
Don't be sleeping on Favors either...

JoeDirt05
06-24-2011, 12:17 PM
where is the lamarcus aldridge love?

THE GIPPER
06-24-2011, 12:20 PM
true

Team*Chicago
06-24-2011, 12:33 PM
I don't think so at all, Blake and Kevin are fake Allstars that has never been in the playoffs and they aren't winning at all. All they are doing is losing, put up double double stats and highlight dunks on ESPN.

airforceones25
06-24-2011, 12:37 PM
I don't think so at all, Blake and Kevin are fake Allstars that has never been in the playoffs and they aren't winning at all. All they are doing is losing, put up double double stats and highlight dunks on ESPN.

That's chill. At least we know Rose is a fake MVP where he got ***** slapped around by LeBron in the 4th quarter. If LeBron is the biggest 4th quarter fraud I can only imagine what Rose is. :facepalm:

THE GIPPER
06-24-2011, 01:03 PM
I don't think so at all, Blake and Kevin are fake Allstars that has never been in the playoffs and they aren't winning at all. All they are doing is losing, put up double double stats and highlight dunks on ESPN.

bulls fan telling us who the fake all star is.... nice.

JordansBulls
06-27-2011, 12:59 PM
Within 3 seasons. They will hold that perch for a good 5-10 seasons like KG/Duncan did. My answer is true. I think both are going to keep improving and rip up the competition for years to come.

Who else could it be? Dirk will be like 35, Duncan 37, KG 38, etc.

Lake_Show2416
06-27-2011, 01:22 PM
where is the lamarcus aldridge love?

ya throw him in there too & u'll have the top PF's of the future, unfortunately Bosh will never get to shine & will be downplayed as a top guy cuz of his stats being deflated, very unselfish for him to do so

MiamiWadeCounty
06-27-2011, 01:29 PM
The answer is maybe.

MrX27
06-27-2011, 01:48 PM
As long as Griffin is healthy, he will be among the best PFs in the game.

Love is good, but being on the cusp and being among the best is 2 different things.