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darth helmet
06-22-2011, 02:28 PM
Now that we're a few months in, what are your thoughts on how the Jays are doing this season in comparison to what your actual expectations were of each player?

Pitchers Grade Comments

Shawn Camp B- One really bad outing has really inflated his stats but much like his previous seasons he's been a pretty reliable reliever.

Octavio Dotel C Hasn't really been worth his contract in my opinion but as long as he's only used selectively he's got some heat that's he's shown he can blow by his opponents

Frank Francisco C His inconsistancy has been a concern but he has the stuff to be a descent closer

Jason Frasor A

Brandon Morrow B- When he's been good, he's been great. When he's off though he gets roughed up bad.

Luis Perez A- Where did this guy even come from? I'm impressed so far!

Jon Rauch B Steady arm out of the bullpen. He's not really an ideal closer though.

Jo-Jo Reyes C+ He's a huge step up from Brian Tallet and has been able to keep the Jays in most of the games he's started.

Ricky Romero A His stats speak for themselves but in order for him to reach true ace status I think he needs to find ways to win those tight games when his offense doesn't come through.

[COLOR="blue"]Marc Rzepczynski C Started off amazing but has really slipped in his more recent outings. Hopefully he can get back to what he was doing earlier on.

Casey Janssen**15-day DL * A He's far exceeded any of my expectations and I hope his success continues

Jesse Litsch**15-day DL * D I never have been a Litsch fan and don't think I ever will.

Kyle Drabek** C Started off ok and only recently seems to have lost his control. I think given it's his first real crack at the bigs it wasn't too bad. He's clearly got his work cut out for him now.

Zach Stewart B- First start was very promising but last night he struggled with his control. Seems to be a common trend among young pitchers so I'm not too worried that he won't figure it out.

Carlos Villanueva B+ When the Jays signed him I thought he was just another guy who'd be competing for a spot out of the pen and that he might not even make it on the major league roster. Clearly he's proven he's way better than I pegged him.

Brett Cecil * D- It was a disappointing start for sure but it sounds like he's making progress in the minors.

Catchers Grade Comments

J.P. Arencibia B Considering it's a development year for JP I'm generally rather happy with his progress. I'd like to see his ability to block balls in the dirty improve but his offense is right on par with what I would have expected and his ability to throw out runners has also been pretty impressive.

Jose Molina B For a veretan back up catcher, he's doing just fine.

Infielders Grade Comments

David Cooper** C He wasn't overly impressive but he showed some potential hitting a home run just before being sent down again.

Edwin Encarnacion F- I didn't expect much of him coming into this season and yet he's still managed to find a way to perform worse than I would have anticipated. At least he's not being played on the field anymore.

Yunel Escobar B On this team his offence looks outstanding but really it's just been ok. His glove and that incredible arm have been his greatest assets.

Aaron Hill F While I've been content with his fielding and baserunning, his offense has just been absolutely dismal. What happened to the Aaron Hill we saw 2 years ago?

Adam Lind A+ Since the Texas series I'd argue he's been our best hitter and most consistant.

Mike McCoy D- He's ok in the field, and unreliable at the plate.

John McDonald B+ He's doing exactly what is expected of him as a defensive specialist off the bench

Jayson Nix D+ The fact that he's an upgrade at 3B is only a testiment to how bad EE is

Outfielders Grade Comments

Jose Bautista A Despite an incredible start, his production has slipped as of late. It's a long season, I'm sure he'll be fine but I'd like to see better consistancy from our offensive leader.

Rajai Davis E- Not quite as bad offensively as Hill and he offers more speed but he's still falling very from from his expectations

Corey Patterson B I don't think anyone expects him to hit .300 all season long so his current slide shouldn't come as a huge surprise, overall though he's been ok in the #2 spot. His defense is center is a little frightening though.

Travis Snider** D His youth gives him the benefit of the doubt that he'll be able to still develop into a valueable asset but his struggles in the majors so far have been a concern.

Eric Thames** B- What little of him I saw, I liked. He looked comfortable when he was up here and I think he might just need more exposure to advance his development.

Designated Hitter Grade Comments

Juan Rivera C He's just a plug and his production is mediocre. Not much was ever really expected of him though.

2009mvp
06-22-2011, 03:04 PM
I'll shoot:

JPA B+: Pretty close to what I expected his offensive ceiling to be in his first year. Once he starts hitting for a bit more power he'll be a pretty valuable player.

Lind A: Can't ask for much more defensively, bat's been great (obviously).

Hill D-: Biggest offensive disappointment. Glove is the only reason he doesn't get an F

Yuni A+: Probably the only above average defender on the roster, nice bounceback offensively as well.

E5 F: Trainwreck.

Nix C: Is what he is. Can't give him a bad grade for being placed in a role he has no business being in.

Patterson C: Same as Nix. Not his fault he keeps getting put in the 2-hole. Decent enough 4th OF.

Davis D: Can't hit a lick, hasn't been particularly good defensively. Another big disappointment.

Bautista A+: AL MVP as of today. Nuff said.

Rivera C-: Meh. Not very good, not E5 bad. I guess that's saying something?

Molina C-: How about putting some effort in behind the plate, fat ***?

bomber0104
06-22-2011, 03:09 PM
C+ for Frasor.. he has been our best reliever all year

darth helmet
06-22-2011, 03:59 PM
C+ for Frasor.. he has been our best reliever all year

You're right, and I don't know why I gave him that mark. I think he's been great and worthy of an A.

Bunta
06-22-2011, 04:08 PM
We're ok.

Bombtista
06-22-2011, 04:48 PM
I love posts like this but i think you were a little generous in your grades given for some players.

Pitchers Grade Comments

Shawn Camp B+ Along with many other of our Bullpin pitchers aside from those aquired this offseason he has been pretty solid and has earned his keep for sure.

Octavio Dotel C For whatever reason he hasnt been given many innings in comparison to some of our other pitchers which is odd to me since he was signed to have a more significant role. He has only pitched 20 innings and i think Farrel should give him a bigger role before a real conclusion is made on him.

Frank Francisco D- He has been a huge dissapointment and has given up runs in pretty much every situation he has been put into. Looks like he may have gained some confidence recently and hopefully that is the boost he needed to be the player that he can be.

Jason Frasor A He has been one of the best relievers in the pen consistently putting up numbers that refelect that success.

Brandon Morrow C He has not continued his success from last season which is pretty much the story of our starting pitching this season but he has strung together a few good starts and hopefully that can continue. Even through his struggles you see flashes of his dominance so he is one guy that we need to keep pushing untill he finds his game

Luis Perez A- He has been pretty good in his few appearences. Other than that there isn't much to say about him.

Jon Rauch C- He is just a tad better than francisco has been so far and that doesnt say much. He needs to be the pitcher we signed

Jo-Jo Reyes C+ Ive been happy with him so far. He has been everything you could have expected really. I dont see him as a part of our future but you never know

Ricky Romero A He has been a true Ace this year. If only the offence could provide him with some support that win loss average would be more reflective of his other numbers.

Marc Rzepczynski B He has been a solid left handed man out of the pen. With a few bad appearences his numbers are inflated but he has been a much better reliever than he was a starter.

Casey Janssen**15-day DL * A He has been the Casey Janssen of old up to this point and hopefully he can keep it up

Jesse Litsch**15-day DL * D i agree that Litsch has been bad this season and i dont see him as a part of our future any longer. Hopefully AA can find something to do with him because he probably wont be the pitcher he was a few years ago

Kyle Drabek** C- Terrible command resulted in his demotion but he showed moments of what he can be and hopefully his stint in AAA doesnt last too long and his removal of his cutter results in better command

Zach Stewart B- 1 good and one one start so far, he has a wicked sinker and i think we got quite the return for Rolen and i hope to see more of him

Carlos Villanueva B+ He has been a surprise to me so far. He finds a way to win games and thats really all you could ask for. He can throw any pitch at any time and thats what makes him so valuable

Brett Cecil * D- Bad start to the season. I havnt seen anything of him in AAA but apparently he is turning it around. Based on his numbers i think he should have got the call insted of Stewart after the drabek demotion. Him or Mills

Catchers Grade Comments

J.P. Arencibia B+ Great production but not so great of an average. I see him as a big league catcher now and i look for him to be an elite at his position in the years to come

Jose Molina A Put up numbers that nobody could complain about in limited playing time as well as being a veteran to the young pitchers so far. Couldn't expect anything more from Molina

Infielders Grade Comments

David Cooper** C- He had a brief stint here and i think the experience was good for him. Other than that there isn't much to say. Im sure we will see him again before seasons end

Edwin Encarnacion D In my opinion he is a better player than Jayson nix who is a joke out there at 3B. For a struggling offensive team his bad glove should overrule nix' nonexistent bat

Yunel Escobar A- He has settled in nicely so far at SS. Earned himself a big contract and he is as good as any SS in the AL and im happy to have him

Aaron Hill D Dont know what has happened to him. He needs to get going quickly or he might be out of here before he knows it. Its hard to keep a dead bat in youre lineup for 2 seasons in a row.

Adam Lind A+ Unlike Hill he has found his 09 game and has been the most productive player along with Bautista. Not much else to say, pretty self explanitory

Mike McCoy C- He has done everything he has been asked to do. I dont see why he is seen as the Utility man with so many other statistically better players in the minor leagues. but im not runnning the team!

John McDonald C+ Nothing special, Classic devensive specialist with not much to offer with the bat. I like him on the team though. I hope he gets to see the teams success we hopewfully achieve soon

Jayson Nix F- I am not a Nix fan, his numbers are just laughable. No successful team has a player with numbers like his on their team

Outfielders Grade Comments

Jose Bautista A+ He is Jose Bautista

Rajai Davis B- Recent slump but other than that he has been a solid player when we have been winning. Gotta get on those breaking balls better though

Corey Patterson B+ Huge surprise. Again he is on a slump right now but his numbers have been nothing to complain about

Travis Snider** D Didn't perform up here, simple as that. Hopefully he can be the player he is hailed to be

Eric Thames** B- I was suprised when he was sent down since he was playing fine. Im confident we will see him again.

Designated Hitter Grade Comments

Juan Rivera C Looking at Vernon Wells, We look like geniouses in this trade but still he hasnt been great. I like him though, he seems like a nice guy :)

BlueJayFanDan
06-22-2011, 07:17 PM
I disagree with several of your grades. I know its your opinion but here are some I noticed that I think are off.

You gave Aaron Hill an F. I think the reason he gets an F on your scale is because you expect 09 Aaron Hill which he hasn't been close to. I don't think you can give his season an F just because he isn't living up to his past. I give him a C- because hes still hitting and getting on base decently. His plate discipline is excellent. Just look at the lack of strikeouts. If he gets his power numbers going more, it would be nice. But I cant give him less than a C-.

Jon Rauch is definitely not a B. His ERA is awful. He has blown several games. Hes not striking out batters. He has given up the 2nd most hits of all our relievers. I give him a C at best and that may be a bit generous.

Marc Rzepczynski is much better than a C. He has had a few brutal games that have hurt his stats but if you look at everything, he has actually been virtually fantastic. I'm also not sure why you think hes been bad lately. 3 straight outings without giving up a run. 4 runs allowed in 9 outings this month. Not bad at all. For me, he is a B+/A- this year.

FLeays
06-22-2011, 07:39 PM
Jose Bautista (A+) - The beard alone is worth an A

2009mvp
06-23-2011, 12:19 AM
I disagree with several of your grades. I know its your opinion but here are some I noticed that I think are off.

You gave Aaron Hill an F. I think the reason he gets an F on your scale is because you expect 09 Aaron Hill which he hasn't been close to. I don't think you can give his season an F just because he isn't living up to his past. I give him a C- because hes still hitting and getting on base decently. His plate discipline is excellent. Just look at the lack of strikeouts. If he gets his power numbers going more, it would be nice. But I cant give him less than a C-.

Jon Rauch is definitely not a B. His ERA is awful. He has blown several games. Hes not striking out batters. He has given up the 2nd most hits of all our relievers. I give him a C at best and that may be a bit generous.

Marc Rzepczynski is much better than a C. He has had a few brutal games that have hurt his stats but if you look at everything, he has actually been virtually fantastic. I'm also not sure why you think hes been bad lately. 3 straight outings without giving up a run. 4 runs allowed in 9 outings this month. Not bad at all. For me, he is a B+/A- this year.

I'm sorry what Aaron Hill are you watching? Excellent plate discipline? You mean the guy with the freakin .280 OBP? He's been nothing short of horrendous offensively, the solid glove has been literally his only redeeming quality.

BlueJayFanDan
06-23-2011, 12:33 AM
I'm sorry what Aaron Hill are you watching? Excellent plate discipline? You mean the guy with the freakin .280 OBP? He's been nothing short of horrendous offensively, the solid glove has been literally his only redeeming quality.

His OBP isn't great but he has good plate discipline. He isn't walking as much as he should but he certainly isn't striking out much. I know he has been a downer yet again but I cant find it in me to say he is an F.

Twitchy
06-23-2011, 08:14 AM
I'll bite:

Rotation:

Romero: A+: IMO he's one of the 30 best starters in baseball. Can't argue with what he's done.

Morrow - D: Yes, he was injured and missed time, but he's been extremely hittable and the results are terrible. I get that his FIP says he could be pitching better, but with a 25% LD rate he kind of brings it on himself.

Jo Jo: C-: He's been better then expected but he doesn't go deep into games and I don't think he's been very good. Drains the bullpen too.

Carlos V: B+: Huge boost in the long man role and has been surprisingly solid in the rotation.

Kyle Drabek: F - Clearly not ready and he was awful when he was up here. Yeah, he's a rookie...but he was horrible.

Lineup:

Yunel Escobar: A: Outstanding. Excellent defender and the bat has rebounded.

Patterson: D: Not his fault they put him at the top of the lineup but a 700 OPS LF isn't anything to get excited about.

Bautista: I don't have a letter high enough to show how awesome he's been, so instead I'll let my friend Vegeta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBtpyeLxVkI) explain it.

Lind: A: He missed time but he's still had a terrific rebound.

Rivera: D-: He's been DHing, 1B and LF and awful with the bat.

Arencibia - B. Solid rookie campaign, and though he's struggled with RHP he's been a huge boost as a offensive minded catcher.

E5: Encarnacion gets an E, in honour of his favourite stat.

Hill: R: I wanted to give him an F, but I felt the R for replacement level worked so much better. I think we're seeing Hill's last year as a Blue Jay unless he picks it up soon.

(Side note - Aaron Hill has no plate discipline, as this refers to one's ability to walk. Hill doesn't walk, and he's been awful this year. Replacement level on the dot.)

Davis: K: In honour of the fact that as I'm typing this he's probably swinging at a low and away slider for strike 3.

Bullpen:

Rauch/Fransisco - C-: Both were expected to be set up caliber relievers and have been mediocre.

Frasor/Rzep/Janssen - A: Nobody had faith in Frasor and Rzep was a wild card but both have been part of our top 3 guys in the pen. Janssen has been treated like a *****, and he's been the best guy this season. It's a crime what they've done to him given how he's played.

Camp: B-: Solid season.

Nica
06-23-2011, 09:00 AM
I'll bite:

Rotation:

Romero: A+: IMO he's one of the 30 best starters in baseball. Can't argue with what he's done.

Morrow - D: Yes, he was injured and missed time, but he's been extremely hittable and the results are terrible. I get that his FIP says he could be pitching better, but with a 25% LD rate he kind of brings it on himself.

Jo Jo: C-: He's been better then expected but he doesn't go deep into games and I don't think he's been very good. Drains the bullpen too.

Carlos V: B+: Huge boost in the long man role and has been surprisingly solid in the rotation.

Kyle Drabek: F - Clearly not ready and he was awful when he was up here. Yeah, he's a rookie...but he was horrible.

Lineup:

Yunel Escobar: A: Outstanding. Excellent defender and the bat has rebounded.

Patterson: D: Not his fault they put him at the top of the lineup but a 700 OPS LF isn't anything to get excited about.

Bautista: I don't have a letter high enough to show how awesome he's been, so instead I'll let my friend Vegeta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBtpyeLxVkI) explain it.

Lind: A: He missed time but he's still had a terrific rebound.

Rivera: D-: He's been DHing, 1B and LF and awful with the bat.

Arencibia - B. Solid rookie campaign, and though he's struggled with RHP he's been a huge boost as a offensive minded catcher.

E5: Encarnacion gets an E, in honour of his favourite stat.

Hill: R: I wanted to give him an F, but I felt the R for replacement level worked so much better. I think we're seeing Hill's last year as a Blue Jay unless he picks it up soon.

(Side note - Aaron Hill has no plate discipline, as this refers to one's ability to walk. Hill doesn't walk, and he's been awful this year. Replacement level on the dot.)

Davis: K: In honour of the fact that as I'm typing this he's probably swinging at a low and away slider for strike 3.

Bullpen:

Rauch/Fransisco - C-: Both were expected to be set up caliber relievers and have been mediocre.

Frasor/Rzep/Janssen - A: Nobody had faith in Frasor and Rzep was a wild card but both have been part of our top 3 guys in the pen. Janssen has been treated like a *****, and he's been the best guy this season. It's a crime what they've done to him given how he's played.

Camp: B-: Solid season.

I agree heartily with the Hill assessment. Definitely brings back bad memories of the original Two Bagger Rally Killer- the legend- Manny Lee.

I just about spit my morning coffee out when I read the Davis "K" rating !! Very funny and sadly accurate.:clap:

The grades seem to be reasonably fair and generally along the lines that most Jays fans would give. It is tough to watch Nix, Hill and Davis swing toothpicks up there and create black holes in the line up card. The Three Amigos stress me out whenever they are at the plate as we all know the outcome. Nix- strike out- just a matter of if the bat is on his shoulders for number 3, Hill a soft fly ball to an outfielder who rarely has to move and Davis hacking away at the ball with his ugly *** swing and never making the pitcher go deep into a count.

Still love Johnny Mac and don`t care that he is very light hitting. Reminds me of Mark Belanger`( RIP) from the 70`s. Sweet glove- fluid and natural body control and anything from his bat is a bonus.

No sense even mentioning E5 or Rivera- they have zero chance or remaining with the club past this year.

All in all 2011 is a good year. Nice to to have re-affirmation on our leaders like Jose, Lind and Ricky Romero. Its a tough call but hopefully in the second half management will use the at bats they wasted on some of the veterans to give some of the kids a chance. I`m really interested to see what the Sept call ups will be ( Snider, Gose, Cooper ) and if they are ready to step up and be a part of the 2012 line up that is legitimately fighting for a play-off spot.

darth helmet
06-23-2011, 10:25 AM
I disagree with several of your grades. I know its your opinion but here are some I noticed that I think are off.

You gave Aaron Hill an F. I think the reason he gets an F on your scale is because you expect 09 Aaron Hill which he hasn't been close to. I don't think you can give his season an F just because he isn't living up to his past. I give him a C- because hes still hitting and getting on base decently. His plate discipline is excellent. Just look at the lack of strikeouts. If he gets his power numbers going more, it would be nice. But I cant give him less than a C-.

Jon Rauch is definitely not a B. His ERA is awful. He has blown several games. Hes not striking out batters. He has given up the 2nd most hits of all our relievers. I give him a C at best and that may be a bit generous.

Marc Rzepczynski is much better than a C. He has had a few brutal games that have hurt his stats but if you look at everything, he has actually been virtually fantastic. I'm also not sure why you think hes been bad lately. 3 straight outings without giving up a run. 4 runs allowed in 9 outings this month. Not bad at all. For me, he is a B+/A- this year.

You're certainly entitled to your own opinion and you're welcome to oppose mine but my case for Hill is that the bottom line is that his .239 average is far below what we've seen he is actually capable of which means he's doing something wrong. He's absolutely failing because we know he has the skill to do more unlike a player like Nix or McCoy who are worse hitters but don't have the skills that we know Hill has. The truth of the matter is that the better we know a player can or should be, the harder we're going to judge them when they don't succeed. That's a harsh reality in professional sports.

For Rauch, I certainly can't argue that his ERA is outstanding or anything but I also think he's been used in a role that is completely wrong for the type of pitcher he is so I've given him some leniency in his grading.

Zep is getting back on track now so maybe I am a little harsh but his outings last week were absolutely horrible and had me thinking maybe hitters had him figured out. I admit I'm a pessimist but as a Toronto sports fan, aren't I allowed to be? Don't things always seem to go wrong for our teams?

kovah
06-23-2011, 10:46 AM
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