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View Full Version : If the Magic offered the Mavs a straight up deal of Dwight for Dirk, does Cuban do it



JordansBulls
06-17-2011, 10:04 PM
If the Magic offered the Mavs a straight up deal of Dwight for Dirk, would you make that deal if you are Mark Cuban? Or would you remain loyal to Dirk considering he brought the franchise a title?

Dirk is 33 (soon to be in 2 days), while Dwight will be 26 at the start of next season.

justinnum1
06-17-2011, 10:10 PM
seems fair but never going to happen

LTBaByyy
06-17-2011, 10:14 PM
Cuban maybe crazy and love trades

But he would NEVER trade Dirk, they have a bond that will never be broken

Jewelz0376
06-17-2011, 10:16 PM
No way I see Cuban trading Dirk for anyone

MacFitz92
06-17-2011, 10:19 PM
How about the option: No, because I wouldn't. ?

Swashcuff
06-17-2011, 10:30 PM
How about the option: No, because I wouldn't. ?

I think he meant "I would reject a deal for Dwight" not Dirk. Typo. :shrug:

Swashcuff
06-17-2011, 10:32 PM
I am on the fence but I lean more towards making the trade. Having the Elite C in the NBA locked up long term is what will be in the best interest of winning and staying competitive for years to come. Such a trade would possibly entice Deron Williams to join the Mavs come 2012 FA.

WVNowitzki
06-17-2011, 10:32 PM
No way. And the day my favorite athlete ever, that lovable German, is not in the NBA will be one of the saddest days in my life.

FriedTofuz
06-17-2011, 10:33 PM
This is unrealistic and the magic, nor mavericks would ever propose such a trade. Dirk was loyal to resigning with the mavericks, cuban wouldnt do this. Regardless, this would never occur.

Gary Reasons
06-17-2011, 10:35 PM
He just won a championship for them I think Cuban has some semblance of loyalty in him, not to mention Tyson Chandler (who is not Howard) plays well, and fits the role they need him to fit in dallas, if they had lost in the playoffs or finals I could see them retooling and trying that.

jrm2054
06-17-2011, 10:35 PM
Cub would never do it

Gary Reasons
06-17-2011, 10:35 PM
I would trade Lebron for Howard though

GREATNESS ONE
06-17-2011, 10:36 PM
No because of Loyalty but if it didn't matter I don't think there is a player in the league I wouldn't trade for Howard.

NYMetropolitans
06-17-2011, 10:42 PM
Cuban would be crucified by Dallas fans.

Ray_R
06-17-2011, 10:46 PM
No, because Dirk was loyal 2 Mavs. Mavs should do the same.

ManningToTyree
06-17-2011, 10:59 PM
In a ****ing heartbeat, but I'm basing it purely on talent and looking toward the future. Ofcourse I'm not a fan of either team so the sentemental stuff isn't a factor. Also, this would NEVER happen

Hellcrooner
06-17-2011, 11:02 PM
where does he sign?

age matters.

A LOT

there are only TWO players in the whole league that probably would not be traded straight up for Dwight by their teams, Lebron and rose. ( add Kobe ONLY because of his no trade clause)

you would need to be ******** to not trade someone that will be in his twilight soon ( the dirks, kgs, pierces, paus, duncans etc etc ) for dwight

keithy19
06-17-2011, 11:12 PM
where does he sign?

age matters.

A LOT

there are only TWO players in the whole league that probably would not be traded straight up for Dwight by their teams, Lebron and rose. ( add Kobe ONLY because of his no trade clause)

you would need to be ******** to not trade someone that will be in his twilight soon ( the dirks, kgs, pierces, paus, duncans etc etc ) for dwight

I wouldn't trade Durant straight up for Dwight.

And this trade wouldn't happen and if I'm Cuban I don't make it.

Ray_R
06-17-2011, 11:30 PM
where does he sign?

age matters.

A LOT

there are only TWO players in the whole league that probably would not be traded straight up for Dwight by their teams, Lebron and rose. ( add Kobe ONLY because of his no trade clause)

you would need to be ******** to not trade someone that will be in his twilight soon ( the dirks, kgs, pierces, paus, duncans etc etc ) for dwight

I believe it would look bad on the organization and players will be hesitant to sign there. It might end up hurting them in the long run.

Chi~TwnHawksFan
06-17-2011, 11:35 PM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm:
this thread is stupid

Hellcrooner
06-17-2011, 11:38 PM
I believe it would look bad on the organization and players will be hesitant to sign there. It might end up hurting them in the long run.

you mean players are delusional enough to think they are something more than tradeable meat loafs for owners?


no wonder they never ask for Free market in cba negotiations !!!!!!

Young2Kinsler
06-17-2011, 11:44 PM
He wouldn't trade Dirk for Kobe, so no reason to do it for a lesser player in Howard. No swipe at Howard, but it's kinda been shown he can't just go win a title on his own.

dtmagnet
06-18-2011, 12:09 AM
Doesn't matter because the Magic wouldn't propose this offer, your thread is moot.

CountSackula
06-18-2011, 12:48 AM
Orlando would be insane to offer Howard for Dirk. At the end of the day, the NBA is a business, so Cuban should do it.

marj987
06-18-2011, 03:27 AM
>=O! **** no! But I think Cuban's gonna make a push for Dwight though.......Cause the Magic are such a paradoxical team......I don't think that team will ever win a title....It's like a tree (Dwight) among leaves (rest of the team) he's the only person on that team with an inside game...While the rest just shoot threes......Their probably never gonna win a title cause they arn't consistent like the Mavs are.......

RipCity32
06-18-2011, 03:34 AM
In a heart beat he should stay loyal To the name on the front of the jersey not the one on the back.

Ebbs
06-18-2011, 03:50 AM
I can't see Cuban doing that to Dirk.

5ass
06-18-2011, 03:56 AM
He wouldn't trade Dirk for Kobe, so no reason to do it for a lesser player in Howard. No swipe at Howard, but it's kinda been shown he can't just go win a title on his own.

Lol neither can kobe, couldnt do **** without shaq and pau, howard never had that kind of player. And btw howard is better than kobe right now and hes younger and on a cheaper contract and he is a center, which means his trade value is higher than kobes

BucinOrlando
06-18-2011, 04:10 AM
Never happen...Close thread.

maddBat
06-18-2011, 04:33 AM
this even a thread?? cuban is an *** sometimes. but common.. the guy has class.

Supreme LA
06-18-2011, 08:01 AM
No, because Dirk was loyal 2 Mavs. Mavs should do the same.

^You got the best sig ever! Haha!

Supreme LA
06-18-2011, 08:19 AM
Lol neither can kobe, couldnt do **** without shaq and pau, howard never had that kind of player. And btw howard is better than kobe right now and hes younger and on a cheaper contract and he is a center, which means his trade value is higher than kobes

That supposed trade rumor was taking place a few years back and Kobe has won 2 championships as the man on his team since that time. NOBODY wins a championship by themselves. Not Kobe, not Shaq, not Howard, and not even MJ. Everyone can see that Dirk didn't do it all by himself either.

Take anyone of the starting 5 out and they don't win it all period. Jason Kidd set the pace and initiated all the ball movement, while at the same time, defended every top scorer we have in this league today and he did it WELL. Jason Terry was lights out this whole postseason and Barea broke down every opposing teams defense with ease. Take Chandler out and they lose all the defense and rebounding. Dirk has been the greatest decoy I can remember seeing in sometime on the court. The guy demands constant attention from everywhere he is on the court and he closed in the crunch. You see?

The point is, Cuban wouldn't have traded Dirk for a younger and prime Kobe so why would he for Dwight? And the Lakers would have never traded Kobe for Dirk. The Mavs are doing very well for themselves with the unit they have. Dirk is now proven as a player to have a team built around and Kobe has been as well. Dwight is still searching for validation like every other ringless superstar in the league.

blacknell
06-18-2011, 09:00 AM
No because what Dirk does for the mavs,Howard can't do and never will be able to. Howard is not going to be hitting big game shots or stretching the Defense out all he is oging to do is play D and dunk and quite frankly it hasn't worked for him so far and Dirk has a ring

Jarvo
06-18-2011, 09:00 AM
Since they just won the championship hell no, But if they didnt I dont see why not he wouldnt think about it once, twice or three times

Sly Guy
06-18-2011, 09:45 AM
he shouldn't. Aside from the loyalty thing, Dirk brings more to the mavs team than dwight can. Dirk is a far better scorer, and Chandler already protects the paint.

THE GIPPER
06-18-2011, 10:19 AM
He wouldn't trade Dirk for Kobe, so no reason to do it for a lesser player in Howard. No swipe at Howard, but it's kinda been shown he can't just go win a title on his own.

I wanna let you in on a little secret....





















Howard>Kobe

THE GIPPER
06-18-2011, 10:23 AM
No because what Dirk does for the mavs,Howard can't do and never will be able to. Howard is not going to be hitting big game shots or stretching the Defense out all he is oging to do is play D and dunk and quite frankly it hasn't worked for him so far and Dirk has a ring

And dirk will never be able to grab 14 boards a game and be the best defensive player in the league. What's your point?

ewmania
06-18-2011, 10:23 AM
guy just won a ring now on with the dumb questions

thats like asking would chicago trade jordan for kobe in 1997... come on really guys

this thread should be closed

JordansBulls
06-18-2011, 01:53 PM
guy just won a ring now on with the dumb questions

thats like asking would chicago trade jordan for kobe in 1997... come on really guys

this thread should be closed

Not even close to being the same. Because first off many might actually consider Dwight to be better than Dirk and then he is younger.

BALLER R
06-18-2011, 02:48 PM
after all the years and now it paid of i think cuban is loyal to dirk and would never do that

jeter 2
06-18-2011, 03:06 PM
I think in the business sense, Cuban would have to do it, but hopefully he wouldn't.. Dirk has done so much for the franchise.

king james
06-18-2011, 03:25 PM
I know some people will say im crazy but I say no to a trade offer cuz howard doesn't make the mavs better.(right now) howard wouldn't do much more than chandler has done for the mavs. I'm not talking anything bad about howard, but with his game right now. He's no more than a scottie pippen, still needing a jordan.

BRICKCITYPIMP12
06-18-2011, 03:40 PM
III would take d12 over dirk.. but u asked bout dallas.. i say they wouldent take him..lol

BluejaysFan08
06-18-2011, 04:01 PM
Not a chance, Cubban's man crush is to strong for Dirk

JordansBulls
06-19-2011, 01:26 AM
III would take d12 over dirk.. but u asked bout dallas.. i say they wouldent take him..lol

I would entertain the thought, but I'm not sure.

VladTheImpaler
06-19-2011, 02:56 AM
I think in the business sense, Cuban would have to do it, but hopefully he wouldn't.. Dirk has done so much for the franchise.

It'd be a terrible business decision. Dirk is the face of the franchise, probably in an all-time sense at this point, and not only did he stay loyal to the Mavs and came back at a good rate, he just put on an amazing show and delivered the franchise's first championship. And to reward him, you trade him. Potential FAs would take note that loyalty isn't a big deal to Cuban and it would definitely play a factor.

As for the question, Cuban is a very loyal guy and has more sentiment than that. Besides, right now Dirk's the better fit and they'll figure the rest out later.

LA_Raiders
06-19-2011, 03:07 AM
I would do it. Irk gave dallas 1 ring in 10yrs? Lol. Thanks Irk now let move on with Howard...

It will never happen. Cuban and Irk are butt buddies...

king4day
06-19-2011, 08:52 AM
Valuewise, it would be good for the Mavs' future (assuming Howard extends there). But now that they have a ring? Dirk retires a Mav.

JasonJohnHorn
06-19-2011, 11:30 AM
You'd have to take it. the future is the future, and business is business.

But no way would Orlando make a move like that.

KnicksR4Real
06-19-2011, 12:00 PM
You'd have to accept it.

knickfan33
06-19-2011, 12:47 PM
your poll doesnt match the topic... your asking if cuban would do it.. hell no

PackerBuckBrew
06-19-2011, 01:22 PM
Dirk decided to stick with the Mavs and in turn they would decide to stick with him. The city of Dallas ever Nowitznesses a trade like this.

Raph12
06-19-2011, 02:12 PM
The Mavs would be stupid to not take it, the Magic would be stupid to offer it...

jason6692
06-19-2011, 02:38 PM
Never

ManRam
06-19-2011, 02:42 PM
Loyalty is great and all, but Cuban gets Dwight in Dallas and he'll have shots at winning for a long time. Dirk is 33 afterall...

It would be cold blooded, but business-wise, he'd be a moron not to.

Jay
06-19-2011, 02:45 PM
No way I see Cuban trading Dirk for anyone

What he said.

FOR ANYONE.

Miller3512
06-19-2011, 03:03 PM
Never going to happen. Orlando would require more than just one player back for D-12. It doesn't matter how good that one player would be. Orlando only trades D-12 if they can get one impact player, one good role player and at least one first round draft pick. The first team that offers all of that just might get D-12.

drobe86
06-19-2011, 03:07 PM
No way you trade Dirk for Dwight Howard. Dwight Howarsd is hands down the best C in the NBA. But you don't have to have a dominant C in today's NBA to win a title. Dwight also doesn't make the players around him better. Dwight is in a similiar boat as Lebron James. These are guys that have been in the Nba 7 or 8 years and haven't improved on their games at all. Dwight still doesn't have Elite Low post moves. James still doesn't have a consistent jumpshot. At this point in their careers these guys are who they are. They are elite players that would kill anybody 1 on 1. But ini a team setting they don't have what it takes to win the big ones. So no.... We'll pass on the highlight reel dunks and blocks, and go with substance at the C position..

ne3xchamps
06-19-2011, 03:18 PM
seems fair but never going to happen

why don't you heat fans pay attention? The question is would cuban do the trade, no need to get all serious about never going to happen. Hypothetical question, ever heard of that?

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 03:39 PM
No way you trade Dirk for Dwight Howard. Dwight Howarsd is hands down the best C in the NBA. But you don't have to have a dominant C in today's NBA to win a title.

You never needed a dominant C to win a title in any era of the NBA. However if you wish to win multiple championships and for a dynasty you'd surely NEED a young dominant big (unless however your team in led by Michael Jordan).


Dwight also doesn't make the players around him better. Dwight is in a similiar boat as Lebron James. These are guys that have been in the Nba 7 or 8 years and haven't improved on their games at all.

Why do you say such ignorant things? Tell me something. In what ways have Dirk improved his game?



Dwight still doesn't have Elite Low post moves. James still doesn't have a consistent jumpshot.

Though not elite they have both vastly improved in those areas. Dirk STILL isn't a good defensive player and though decent is still underwhelming as a rebounder but guess what he was able to work within himself and get the job done. You don't have to be fundamentally sound to win a championship you have to work well with what you have and play within yourself that's what Dirk did better than either James or Howard. Something that takes the experience of trial and error to fully grasp.


At this point in their careers these guys are who they are. They are elite players that would kill anybody 1 on 1. But ini a team setting they don't have what it takes to win the big ones. So no.... We'll pass on the highlight reel dunks and blocks, and go with substance at the C position..

Know what's funny, I am willing to bet anything that if you were able to give up Tyson for Dwight you'd do it in a millisecond. But you're saying you'd pass on him here. Smh. Prior to this year Dirk didn't have what it took to win the big ones.... you know what that was.... HELP. Had Dirk's supporting casts actually give him that support come playoff time like they did this past postseason he would have more likely than not have more than one championship. This is LeBron's first year with any real championship calibre supporting cast and Dwight well he's never had anything resembling that in Orlando.

thedfactor
06-19-2011, 03:49 PM
Dirk wouldn't get traded for anyone. It's not an insult to any player despite the age difference. Dirk led the Mavs to a title and he and Cuban have an amazing bond.

drobe86
06-19-2011, 03:51 PM
You never needed a dominant C to win a title in any era of the NBA. However if you wish to win multiple championships and for a dynasty you'd surely NEED a young dominant big (unless however your team in led by Michael Jordan).



Why do you guys say such ignorant things?


Though not elite they have both vastly improved in those areas. Dirk STILL isn't a good defensive player and though decent is still underwhelming as a rebounder but guess what he was able to work within himself and get the job done. You don't have to be fundamentally sound to win a championship you have to work well with what you have and play within yourself that's what Dirk did better than either James or Howard. Something that takes the experience of trial and error to fully grasp.



Know what's funny, I am willing to bet anything that if you were able to give up Tyson for Dwight you'd do it in a millisecond. But you're saying you'd pass on him here. Smh. Prior to this year Dirk didn't have what it took to win the big ones.... you know what that was.... HELP. Had Dirk's supporting casts actually give him that support come playoff time like they did this past postseason he would have more likely than not have more than one championship. This is LeBron's first year with any real championship calibre supporting cast and Dwight well he's never had anything resembling that in Orlando.


While yes I believe Dwight is better than Ty Chandler I would rather have Ty on our team. He fits what we're trying to do. Sure he's not as flashy as Dwight, and isn't a superstar like Dwight. But people overrating that aspect in todays NBA Game. We don't want another Superstar. They are way too sensitive and get their feelings hurt when the other guy starts to play as well or better. We proved this year that you don't need 2 superstars to win a championship. You need 1 star, and a bunch of good role players that understand their roles and are willing to play within the framework of the team. The Heat got all the ratings, and highlight reel dunks and plays, we just got the ring. And the Heat aren't bothered by that at all, other than Chris Bosh. Look at their body language, look at what James had to say after the series..... James is more worried about being an ICON than winning a championship. Dwight is just as egotistical and worries about himself just as much as James does.... The Dallas Mavericks are now a Blue Collar team. Dwight Howard is not a Blue Collar player. Therefore we don't want or need him. Get it now:)

-Kobe24-TJ19-
06-19-2011, 03:56 PM
no, but he should.

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 04:10 PM
While yes I believe Dwight is better than Ty Chandler I would rather have Ty on our team. He fits what we're trying to do. Sure he's not as flashy as Dwight, and isn't a superstar like Dwight. But people overrating that aspect in todays NBA Game. We don't want another Superstar. They are way too sensitive and get their feelings hurt when the other guy starts to play as well or better. We proved this year that you don't need 2 superstars to win a championship. You need 1 star, and a bunch of good role players that understand their roles and are willing to play within the framework of the team. The Heat got all the ratings, and highlight reel dunks and plays, we just got the ring. And the Heat aren't bothered by that at all, other than Chris Bosh. Look at their body language, look at what James had to say after the series..... James is more worried about being an ICON than winning a championship. Dwight is just as egotistical and worries about himself just as much as James does.... The Dallas Mavericks are now a Blue Collar team. Dwight Howard is not a Blue Collar player. Therefore we don't want or need him. Get it now:)

You just said "WE" don't want Dwight Howard when Mavs posters have been raving at the possibility of getting a player such as Dwight to play alongside Dirk. Damn near every Mavs poster has spoken on how much they would like to have Dwight if were in any way possible. Who is this "we" you speak of?

You guys didn't prove anything about 2 superstars not being needed. That has been proven time and time again. However if you guys hope to stand a chance at prolonged success past Dirk's prime you better stop being so ignorant and admit to the fact that when Dirk is no longer a top 5 player you won't have any shot at winning a title again if all you got around him is role players.

justOmazing
06-19-2011, 04:11 PM
no...

Howard becomes a free agent after this next season. He couldn't take the chance of losing him after one year.

Not only that, but no more Germans would attend Dallas games.

justOmazing
06-19-2011, 04:14 PM
If the Magic offered the Mavs a straight up deal of Dwight for Dirk, would you make that deal if you are Mark Cuban? Or would you remain loyal to Dirk considering he brought the franchise a title?

Dirk is 33 (soon to be in 2 days), while Dwight will be 26 at the start of next season.

Dude, is that DHow in your avatar pic? hahahaha... nice.

drobe86
06-19-2011, 04:16 PM
You just said "WE" don't want Dwight Howard when Mavs posters have been raving at the possibility of getting a player such as Dwight to play alongside Dirk. Damn near every Mavs poster has spoken on how much they would like to have Dwight if were in any way possible. Who is this "we" you speak of?

You guys didn't prove anything about 2 superstars not being needed. That has been proven time and time again. However if you guys hope to stand a chance at prolonged success past Dirk's prime you better stop being so ignorant and admit to the fact that when Dirk is no longer a top 5 player you won't have any shot at winning a title again if all you got around him is role players.



When I say "we" I'm talking about the Mavs as a team. Not our fans. Fans want bigger names, and marketability and stuff that really doesn't matter all that much on the basketball court. We don't need the attention. The Heat got all the attention in the world and that doesn't win championships. Hard work, dedication, playing team ball and playing for one another DOES win titles. Dwight Howard is an OUTSTANDING INDIVIDUAL player I'm not doubting that. I think he's a top 3 player in the NBA. But his DNA doesn't insist of the ingredients needed to win an NBA championship. Therefore, we don't need him. Tyson Chandler has those ingredients. Hence the reason why Ty has a championship and Dwight doesn't. Alot of fans get to caught up into the hype of having a superstar, and a player that they can praise. Like I said before Dwight can have his shoe deals, and highlight reel plays. We'll just take the trophy.....

heyman321
06-19-2011, 04:19 PM
No because Dirk has a no trade clause.

Jewelz0376
06-19-2011, 04:23 PM
When I say "we" I'm talking about the Mavs as a team. Not our fans. Fans want bigger names, and marketability and stuff that really doesn't matter all that much on the basketball court. We don't need the attention. The Heat got all the attention in the world and that doesn't win championships. Hard work, dedication, playing team ball and playing for one another DOES win titles. Dwight Howard is an OUTSTANDING INDIVIDUAL player I'm not doubting that. I think he's a top 3 player in the NBA. But his DNA doesn't insist of the ingredients needed to win an NBA championship. Therefore, we don't need him. Tyson Chandler has those ingredients. Hence the reason why Ty has a championship and Dwight doesn't. Alot of fans get to caught up into the hype of having a superstar, and a player that they can praise. Like I said before Dwight can have his shoe deals, and highlight reel plays. We'll just take the trophy.....

How do figure that??

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 04:23 PM
When I say "we" I'm talking about the Mavs as a team. Not our fans. Fans want bigger names, and marketability and stuff that really doesn't matter all that much on the basketball court. We don't need the attention. The Heat got all the attention in the world and that doesn't win championships. Hard work, dedication, playing team ball and playing for one another DOES win titles. Dwight Howard is an OUTSTANDING INDIVIDUAL player I'm not doubting that. I think he's a top 3 player in the NBA. But his DNA doesn't insist of the ingredients needed to win an NBA championship. Therefore, we don't need him. Tyson Chandler has those ingredients. Hence the reason why Ty has a championship and Dwight doesn't. Alot of fans get to caught up into the hype of having a superstar, and a player that they can praise. Like I said before Dwight can have his shoe deals, and highlight reel plays. We'll just take the trophy.....

All those things you said about Dwight was also said about Shaq. 4 Championships later we see what was the outcome.

I'll ask you a hypothetical question then. Had Dwight Howard been a part of the 2010-2011 Dallas Mavericks would they have won the championship?

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 04:27 PM
How do figure that??

He got his Masters in "NBA Players Genetics" at Harvard.

drobe86
06-19-2011, 04:32 PM
How do figure that??


Because its been 8 years and he hasn't won yet. Dwight has had GREAT teams in Orlando. They've been at the top of the East pretty much since he's been there. They've been going deep in the playoffs the entire time and he's failed. At what point is it on Dwight? How is it that Orlando has had all these great regular seasons and then when they get beat in the playoffs its the team and not Dwight? Dwights situation is very similiar to that of Lebron James. 2 guys that the NBA marketed to be the next great thing. Yet both of them shrink in the moment... Dwight isn't as bad as Lebron in that regard but it's close. If Howard and James were what everybody says they are they would have won by now...

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 04:37 PM
Because its been 8 years and he hasn't won yet. Dwight has had GREAT teams in Orlando. They've been at the top of the East pretty much since he's been there. They've been going deep in the playoffs the entire time and he's failed. At what point is it on Dwight? How is it that Orlando has had all these great regular seasons and then when they get beat in the playoffs its the team and not Dwight? Dwights situation is very similiar to that of Lebron James. 2 guys that the NBA marketed to be the next great thing. Yet both of them shrink in the moment... Dwight isn't as bad as Lebron in that regard but it's close. If Howard and James were what everybody says they are they would have won by now...

1. it has been 7 years Dwight has been in the league and in those 7 years he has played alongside 1 all star.
2. Dirk has been in the league 13 years and only just won his 1st championship despite playing alongside 4 all stars.

So i guess based on your foolish logic Dirk is even worst than Howard. Because he has had GREATER Teams than Howard.

drobe86
06-19-2011, 04:37 PM
All those things you said about Dwight was also said about Shaq. 4 Championships later we see what was the outcome.

I'll ask you a hypothetical question then. Had Dwight Howard been a part of the 2010-2011 Dallas Mavericks would they have won the championship?

Maybe. Or maybe not. but that's something we will never know. But I do know Dwight is an attention whore, and I'm not sure he would be able to thrive on a team that wasn't all about him. Ultimately I think he would have demanded the ball in the paint not allowed us to move the ball like we did... He doesn't pass out of the double team well. And the blueprint is out on Dwight... Let him dominate his man 1 on 1. He'll score 40 and get 20 rebounds and the team will still LOSE. If you don't believe me go watch Magic-Hawks playoff series from this year....

drobe86
06-19-2011, 04:39 PM
1. it has been 7 years Dwight has been in the league and in those 7 years he has played alongside 1 all star.
2. Dirk has been in the league 13 years and only just won his 1st championship despite playing alongside 4 all stars.

So i guess based on your foolish logic Dirk is even worst than Howard. Because he has had GREATER Teams than Howard.


4 allstars? are you talking about a 39 year old Jason Kidd who hasn't earned an All Star Bid since 2004? Or Shawn Marion who was an all star in 06? Or maybe Peja who hadn't been good since 2001? I guess...

drobe86
06-19-2011, 04:41 PM
1. it has been 7 years Dwight has been in the league and in those 7 years he has played alongside 1 all star.
2. Dirk has been in the league 13 years and only just won his 1st championship despite playing alongside 4 all stars.

So i guess based on your foolish logic Dirk is even worst than Howard. Because he has had GREATER Teams than Howard.


Dirk is better than Howard. Dirks actually has an offensive game and can put the team on his back and win a title. Dwight has not shown that yet, and until he does he will be looked at as a guy that puts up great individual stats but doesn't get it done in the column that matters: CHAMPIONSHIPS
Now, I'm not saying that Dwight won't ever get a ring. But ultimately he nor James will get a ring as the best player on the team. Those guys will be veteran Journeyman hanging on for dear life and role players when they win a championship....

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 04:43 PM
Maybe. Or maybe not. but that's something we will never know. But I do know Dwight is an attention whore, and I'm not sure he would be able to thrive on a team that wasn't all about him. Ultimately I think he would have demanded the ball in the paint not allowed us to move the ball like we did... He doesn't pass out of the double team well. And the blueprint is out on Dwight... Let him dominate his man 1 on 1. He'll score 40 and get 20 rebounds and the team will still LOSE. If you don't believe me go watch Magic-Hawks playoff series from this year....

Over the last 3 seasons in the NBA do you know what team has scored the most 3 pointers in the entire NBA? Do you know which team has the most effective perimeter passing game during that time? Do you know why they were able to move the ball so well? Do you know that Dwight Howard is indeed an improved passer out of the double team? Do you know that Dwight Howard does not demand the ball in the paint?

Jordan scored 63 points and the Bulls still lost to the Celtics. Does that mean that Jordan hurt his team or rather that his team just wasn't that great. Had Dirk's supporting cast perform as badly as Dwight's the Mavs too would not have made it out of the first round no matter what Dirk did.

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 04:47 PM
Dirk is better than Howard. Dirks actually has an offensive game and can put the team on his back and win a title. Dwight has not shown that yet, and until he does he will be looked at as a guy that puts up great individual stats but doesn't get it done in the column that matters: CHAMPIONSHIPS
Now, I'm not saying that Dwight won't ever get a ring. But ultimately he nor James will get a ring as the best player on the team. Those guys will be veteran Journeyman hanging on for dear life and role players when they win a championship....

Thank you for so accurately predicitng the future. We all know what you say will come to past.

You get proven wrong time and time again and you keep returning with idiocy. Dirk was that guy for 12+ years he wins a Championship and now all that is forgotten. Smh.

drobe86
06-19-2011, 04:51 PM
Thank you for so accurately predicitng the future. We all know what you say will come to past.

You get proven wrong time and time again and you keep returning with idiocy. Dirk was that guy for 12+ years he wins a Championship and now all that is forgotten. Smh.

No not all I say will come to pass. But I did say that the Mavs would win the championship this season and they did.... When has anybody proved me wrong? I said Lebron James wouldn't win a ring as the top player on his team and he hasn't. I've said James and Howard were both manufactured superstars and they are. Neither guy has lived up to what they were made out to be when they were drafted.... Again I'm not talking about stats. I'm talking about Championships... People said James was better than Jordan.
MJ has 6 rings and Lebron has 0........ When will he get started? I actually like Howard but I don't think he takes the game serious enough yet. If he did he would have a ring by now....

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 04:52 PM
4 allstars? are you talking about a 39 year old Jason Kidd who hasn't earned an All Star Bid since 2004? Or Shawn Marion who was an all star in 06? Or maybe Peja who hadn't been good since 2001? I guess...

Again you don't even know your own team but you try to get into a debate about them. GTFO.

In Dirk's 13 years he has played alongside Steve Nash (NBA All-Star 20022003), Michael Finely (NBA All-Star 20002001) and Josh Howard (NBA All-Star 2007) and Jason Kidd (NBA All-Star 2010).

Please learn about your team before ever posting anything about them here again please. You don't know your franchise's history, you don't know their players. What do you know? Other than how to be ignorant.

drobe86
06-19-2011, 04:54 PM
Again you don't even know your own team but you try to get into a debate about them. GTFO.

In Dirk's 13 years he has played alongside Steve Nash (NBA All-Star 20022003), Michael Finely (NBA All-Star 20002001) and Josh Howard (NBA All-Star 2007) and Jason Kidd (NBA All-Star 2010).

Please learn about your team before ever posting anything about them here again please. You don't know your franchise's history, you don't know their players. What do you know? Other than how to be ignorant.


Dude Michael Finley? When Dirk got into his prime he was on the back 9. Steve Nash was an all star, but didn't play nearly as well for us as he did for Phoenix. And seriously Josh Howard? The 1st quarter wonder? That dude sucks.... What's he doing now anyway?

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 04:56 PM
No not all I say will come to pass. But I did say that the Mavs would win the championship this season and they did.... When has anybody proved me wrong? I said Lebron James wouldn't win a ring as the top player on his team and he hasn't. I've said James and Howard were both manufactured superstars and they are. Neither guy has lived up to what they were made out to be when they were drafted.... Again I'm not talking about stats. I'm talking about Championships... People said James was better than Jordan.
MJ has 6 rings and Lebron has 0........ When will he get started? I actually like Howard but I don't think he takes the game serious enough yet. If he did he would have a ring by now....

So then Dirk didn't take the game seriously enough in his first 7 years in the league either because he had more than enough help and more than enough chances but he didn't win one either.

I for one don't think LeBron could be as good or MJ or even come close BUT MJ didn't win his first championship until he was 28 LeBron James turns 27 in December of this year.

drobe86
06-19-2011, 04:56 PM
Again you don't even know your own team but you try to get into a debate about them. GTFO.

In Dirk's 13 years he has played alongside Steve Nash (NBA All-Star 20022003), Michael Finely (NBA All-Star 20002001) and Josh Howard (NBA All-Star 2007) and Jason Kidd (NBA All-Star 2010).

Please learn about your team before ever posting anything about them here again please. You don't know your franchise's history, you don't know their players. What do you know? Other than how to be ignorant.


And I thought he was referring to the players on THIS years team. Oh and the other thing I do know is that the Dallas Mavericks are your 2010-2011 NBA CHAMPION:clap:

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 04:59 PM
Dude Michael Finley? When Dirk got into his prime he was on the back 9. Steve Nash was an all star, but didn't play nearly as well for us as he did for Phoenix. And seriously Josh Howard? The 1st quarter wonder? That dude sucks.... What's he doing now anyway?

What the hell is your problem?

You know nothing about your own franchise when someone corrects you you act like if you were right in the first place. I told you he played alongside All Stars you said NO. I corrected you now you find a problem in that.

I'm sure you had no problem with Josh Howard when he became an All Star right. I'm betting if you even a Mav fan in 06 you also said they'd win the Championship that year too right.

How old are you btw?

drobe86
06-19-2011, 05:01 PM
So then Dirk didn't take the game seriously enough in his first 7 years in the league either because he had more than enough help and more than enough chances but he didn't win one either.

I for one don't think LeBron could be as good or MJ or even come close BUT MJ didn't win his first championship until he was 28 LeBron James turns 27 in December of this year.



He had his chances but the Mavs weren't legit contenders then. And do you know why? Because they didn't play Defense. Alot of people were calling the Mavs chokers at that time, but they really overachieved. You're not winning a title with No Defense and Eric Dampier at Center.... And just because it took Jordan 8 years doesn't mean Lebron will match it... And Lebron is about the same player at 27 than he was when he was 18. Still very good in transition and on the fast break. He is still a great passer. He still has no low post moves, no consistent jumpshot, still can't hit the 3 or his free throws. So whats the difference other than his age?

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 05:01 PM
And I thought he was referring to the players on THIS years team. Oh and the other thing I do know is that the Dallas Mavericks are your 2010-2011 NBA CHAMPION:clap:

And I am happy for them. And how in the hell could you think I was talking about this year's teams when I said Dwight had one all star. You said Kidd last ASG was 04. How in the Hell could you think I was talking about this year. I clearing said "In Dirk's 13 years in the league", where in that did you see THIS YEAR.

O and I am happy for your Mavs and Dirk and Kidd on winning their first title. Congrats!

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 05:07 PM
He had his chances but the Mavs weren't legit contenders then. And do you know why? Because they didn't play Defense. Alot of people were calling the Mavs chokers at that time, but they really overachieved. You're not winning a title with No Defense and Eric Dampier at Center.... And just because it took Jordan 8 years doesn't mean Lebron will match it... And Lebron is about the same player at 27 than he was when he was 18. Still very good in transition and on the fast break. He is still a great passer. He still has no low post moves, no consistent jumpshot, still can't hit the 3 or his free throws. So whats the difference other than his age?

Sigh. It didn't take Jordan 8 years to win his first ring.

LeBron has a much better mid range game now than he did at 18, he has also learned how to score more efficient and impact the game without the ball in his hands. And I guess defense is no longer a part of basketball because he went from an average/slightly above average defensive player to an elite defensive player and has been much smarter in his playing the passing lanes.

Dirk is still a below average defensive player, below average rebounder for his height. But he has learned to work within himself and to his strengths. Something as I said earlier takes time and trial and error. Who is to say LeBron and Dwight wouldn't be able to do the same? They are still very young.

drobe86
06-19-2011, 05:08 PM
What the hell is your problem?

You know nothing about your own franchise when someone corrects you you act like if you were right in the first place. I told you he played alongside All Stars you said NO. I corrected you now you find a problem in that.

I'm sure you had no problem with Josh Howard when he became an All Star right. I'm betting if you even a Mav fan in 06 you also said they'd win the Championship that year too right.

How old are you btw?


No, I'm not correcting you at all you are right. But I didn't think you were referring to the All Stars dirk was playing with his ENTIRE career. I thought you were referring to the guys that I named that were on this years Championship team that used to be all stars.


As for Josh Howard, I was never a huge fan. Just like I never liked Devin Harris. Howard had a ton of ability but he was a knucklehead and played inconsistent defense. His offensive game was pretty good. I was a Mavs fan in '06 and I did believe that we would have won the title. But Devin Harris was erractic. I don't believe that series was called fair and square either but I didn't cry about it.

I'm 26 myself and have been a Mavs fan as far back as I remember (1993). I remember J Kidd when the Mavs first drafted him. When we had Kidd, Action jackson, and Monster Mashburn at the old Reunion Arena. We were terrible then, but that takes me back to a special place in my life when my grandfather was living and he used to take me to the games...

drobe86
06-19-2011, 05:12 PM
Sigh. It didn't take Jordan 8 years to win his first ring.

LeBron has a much better mid range game now than he did at 18, he has also learned how to score more efficient and impact the game without the ball in his hands. And I guess defense is no longer a part of basketball because he went from an average/slightly above average defensive player to an elite defensive player and has been much smarter in his playing the passing lanes.

Dirk is still a below average defensive player, below average rebounder for his height. But he has learned to work within himself and to his strengths. Something as I said earlier takes time and trial and error. Who is to say LeBron and Dwight wouldn't be able to do the same? They are still very young.



They are still very young I agree with you. But these guys aren't improving each year man. Ok yea Lebron is better than he was at 18. But compare him the last 5 years. He's about the same player. He's gotten better slightly in a few areas. But Jordan brought something new each and every season. By year 8 Jordan had so much in his repoirtoire that it was unreal... Jordan was ELITE at EVERYTHING. And he was oh so clutch.... And Dwight just hasn't gotten better at anything lol... He's just the most physically gifted C in this era... He's still got no jumpshot, no low post moves, and gets all his points from just banging on people and putbacks...

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 05:14 PM
No, I'm not correcting you at all you are right. But I didn't think you were referring to the All Stars dirk was playing with his ENTIRE career. I thought you were referring to the guys that I named that were on this years Championship team that used to be all stars.


As for Josh Howard, I was never a huge fan. Just like I never liked Devin Harris. Howard had a ton of ability but he was a knucklehead and played inconsistent defense. His offensive game was pretty good. I was a Mavs fan in '06 and I did believe that we would have won the title. But Devin Harris was erractic. I don't believe that series was called fair and square either but I didn't cry about it.

I'm 26 myself and have been a Mavs fan as far back as I remember (1993). I remember J Kidd when the Mavs first drafted him. When we had Kidd, Action jackson, and Monster Mashburn at the old Reunion Arena. We were terrible then, but that takes me back to a special place in my life when my grandfather was living and he used to take me to the games...

You are older than I but you really don't act it. I think before clicking submit reply you should read over that the person you are replying to said and also re-read your counter argument because you really aren't doing a good job of grasping what is being debating.

Oh and rubbing the fact that you guys won a championship in others face when they disagree with you. Simply childish. You guys earned your bragging rights but you are being no different than the very player you condemn (LeBron James) with your attitude.

drobe86
06-19-2011, 05:20 PM
You are older than I but you really don't act it. I think before clicking submit reply you should read over that the person you are replying to said and also re-read your counter argument because you really aren't doing a good job of grasping what is being debating.

Oh and rubbing the fact that you guys won a championship in others face when they disagree with you. Simply childish. You guys earned your bragging rights but you are being no different than the very player you condemn (LeBron James) with your attitude.


Bro, it's a forum its really not that serious lol... Everyoneposting on this site is a homer and have their own opinions... You can't say someones opinion is right or wrong. I don't mind you disagreeing with me at all. But how can you say the Mavs need to do this or that, when they are the King of the NBA Hill right now? We won a championship without 2 superstars so how can anybody tell me we need another superstar to win going forward? That's why I said I like D Howard but we don't need him. Not at least for another 3 years while Dirk still has the juice. The day Dirk comes back and doesn't have it is when you visit that question. But really how can you question moves that a Champion makes?

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 05:21 PM
They are still very young I agree with you. But these guys aren't improving each year man. Ok yea Lebron is better than he was at 18. But compare him the last 5 years. He's about the same player. He's gotten better slightly in a few areas. But Jordan brought something new each and every season. By year 8 Jordan had so much in his repoirtoire that it was unreal... Jordan was ELITE at EVERYTHING. And he was oh so clutch.... And Dwight just hasn't gotten better at anything lol... He's just the most physically gifted C in this era... He's still got no jumpshot, no low post moves, and gets all his points from just banging on people and putbacks...

Agreed on everything with the exclusion of your last point. Dwight didn't average 23 ppg last season from just banging and putbacks. He has developed a decent offensive low post repertoire, with an effective hook shot, a smooth up and under move he also displayed a fake spin drop step move than was a pleasant surprise to his supporters and most importantly he learned to read defenses and established better positions earlier and in the right places. While still not on the level of a Pat Ewing, he has made vast improvements to that aspect of his game.

OC Knights #11
06-19-2011, 05:27 PM
It's simple, I'd rather have Dirk then Dwight. Dirk is clutch, Dwight is not.

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 05:27 PM
Bro, it's a forum its really not that serious lol... Everyoneposting on this site is a homer and have their own opinions... You can't say someones opinion is right or wrong. I don't mind you disagreeing with me at all. But how can you say the Mavs need to do this or that, when they are the King of the NBA Hill right now? We won a championship without 2 superstars so how can anybody tell me we need another superstar to win going forward? That's why I said I like D Howard but we don't need him. Not at least for another 3 years while Dirk still has the juice. The day Dirk comes back and doesn't have it is when you visit that question. But really how can you question moves that a Champion makes?

Because the motive is not to just win a championship remain content and feel that's all. Now everyone is gunning for you. If you stay stagnant other may/will pass you.

If you desire to win multiple championships and you have an aging core its likely that your window will be closing sooner rather than later. In order to ensure that that window does not close you attempt to put yourself in a position to stay in contention for the next 5-10 years. That's why I said from any standpoint Dwight would be better for you guys going forward than Chandler.

Soon the Mavericks will become the Spurs with no franchise player not a very bright future. Then what? I am not saying trade Dirk for a young guy or anything so foolish but to think that the Mavs FO wouldn't grab Dwight if they had the opportunity to and kick Tyson to the curb may be a bit near sited.

lilboytwister99
06-19-2011, 05:27 PM
I would trade Lebron for Howard though

LOL I second that, actually.

drobe86
06-19-2011, 07:36 PM
Because the motive is not to just win a championship remain content and feel that's all. Now everyone is gunning for you. If you stay stagnant other may/will pass you.

If you desire to win multiple championships and you have an aging core its likely that your window will be closing sooner rather than later. In order to ensure that that window does not close you attempt to put yourself in a position to stay in contention for the next 5-10 years. That's why I said from any standpoint Dwight would be better for you guys going forward than Chandler.

Soon the Mavericks will become the Spurs with no franchise player not a very bright future. Then what? I am not saying trade Dirk for a young guy or anything so foolish but to think that the Mavs FO wouldn't grab Dwight if they had the opportunity to and kick Tyson to the curb may be a bit near sited.



And how do you know this? Now you called me out pages ago becuase I said that James and Howard would never win a title because they are egotistical players that only care about themselves. They're not interested in doing whats in the best interest of the team. Now you're saying the Mavs will be Spurs and not have a bright future how? Guys like Barea, Beaubois, Chandler, are players that don't even know their ceilings yet. Dirk is still in his prime at 33. Who's to say he can't play at or near that level for another 3 + years? We know his game will age well because he has so much in his reportoire... Dirk's not Duncan, he won't just hit a wall become a bum in a years time. Duncan didn't slowly decline he just hit a WALL. What did he give you this year 13 and 9? Dirk will give you 22 and 8 at 40.... Just saying

Swashcuff
06-19-2011, 07:43 PM
And how do you know this? Now you called me out pages ago becuase I said that James and Howard would never win a title because they are egotistical players that only care about themselves.

:laugh: :laugh: laugh:

Only care about themselves.... didn't LeBron James leave the Cavs to come to another team to be it's Scottie Pippen. If he only cared about himself he would have gone to NY and become millions of dollars richer. :rolleyes:


They're not interested in doing whats in the best interest of the team. Now you're saying the Mavs will be Spurs and not have a bright future how? Guys like Barea, Beaubois, Chandler, are players that don't even know their ceilings yet. Dirk is still in his prime at 33. Who's to say he can't play at or near that level for another 3 + years? We know his game will age well because he has so much in his reportoire... Dirk's not Duncan, he won't just hit a wall become a bum in a years time. Duncan didn't slowly decline he just hit a WALL. What did he give you this year 13 and 9? Dirk will give you 22 and 8 at 40.... Just saying

Its the natural course of sports. You really expect the Mavs to be a top level team with Barea, Beaubois and Chandler as their building blocks? Do you watch Spurs basketball? Do you know that their is a reason Tim Dunncan made the ASG before Love, Randolph and Aldrige. Duncan has been gradually declining for 4 seasons now, he never hit a WALL.

You are so childish it makes it hard for me to believe that you are 26 or being serious.

drobe86
06-20-2011, 12:13 AM
:laugh: :laugh: laugh:

Only care about themselves.... didn't LeBron James leave the Cavs to come to another team to be it's Scottie Pippen. If he only cared about himself he would have gone to NY and become millions of dollars richer. :rolleyes:



Its the natural course of sports. You really expect the Mavs to be a top level team with Barea, Beaubois and Chandler as their building blocks? Do you watch Spurs basketball? Do you know that their is a reason Tim Dunncan made the ASG before Love, Randolph and Aldrige. Duncan has been gradually declining for 4 seasons now, he never hit a WALL.

You are so childish it makes it hard for me to believe that you are 26 or being serious.



James left Cleveland because he didn't have the balls to stick it out force the issue. Dirk Nowitzki stuck with the Mavs, and following year he wins an NBA Title. Idk how far the Mavs go with Barea, Beaubois and Chandler but I do know that all 3 are good players. I also know that all 3 players have championship rings:D No I don't know how Duncan can make an All star game before Love, Randolph, and Aldridge. Especially when Randolph made him look like a D League baller in the playoffs.

At the end of the day you're real impressed with stuff that really doesn't matter. You bring up alot of points that are right, but don't really mean anything. Like saying Pau Gasol had a better year and half better than Dirk. Who cares? Who's had the better career? You also state your opinion as fact. It doesn't take much to impress you. You are easily influenced by Advanced stats, and what kind of INDIVIDUAL stats player put up. I'm influenced by Championships... Ask any NBA player what they play for and they will tell you a title. At this stage in their careers. 7, 8 years in James nor Howard has a ring. I dislike Tim Duncan as much James but the man has won championships. I can't deny that. I think he's overrated becuse he's been products of those great teams and system, but he's still been to the top of the mountain. James and Howard love the attention of the media. They like their commercials, they like their shoe deals etc. They can have all that stuff like I said. Just give us the Ring:clap:

gatkins11
06-20-2011, 12:19 AM
Dirk will retire a Dallas Maverick.

SANDBURG23
06-20-2011, 12:20 AM
They would do that in a second.

Swashcuff
06-20-2011, 12:26 AM
James left Cleveland because he didn't have the balls to stick it out force the issue. Dirk Nowitzki stuck with the Mavs, and following year he wins an NBA Title. Idk how far the Mavs go with Barea, Beaubois and Chandler but I do know that all 3 are good players. I also know that all 3 players have championship rings:D No I don't know how Duncan can make an All star game before Love, Randolph, and Aldridge. Especially when Randolph made him look like a D League baller in the playoffs.

At the end of the day you're real impressed with stuff that really doesn't matter. You bring up alot of points that are right, but don't really mean anything. Like saying Pau Gasol had a better year and half better than Dirk. Who cares? Who's had the better career? You also state your opinion as fact. It doesn't take much to impress you. You are easily influenced by Advanced stats, and what kind of INDIVIDUAL stats player put up. I'm influenced by Championships... Ask any NBA player what they play for and they will tell you a title. At this stage in their careers. 7, 8 years in James nor Howard has a ring. I dislike Tim Duncan as much James but the man has won championships. I can't deny that. I think he's overrated becuse he's been products of those great teams and system, but he's still been to the top of the mountain. James and Howard love the attention of the media. They like their commercials, they like their shoe deals etc. They can have all that stuff like I said. Just give us the Ring:clap:

Please quote where I said that.

As I and basically everyone else has told you time and time again in this thread. You don't even understand what is being debating.

How the EFFFFFF can Tim Duncan be a product of a system. Are you going out of your mind right now. Tim Duncan IS the system, he is the most fundamentally sound and least flawed player of the past decade in the NBA that's why HE has more championships than anyone not named Kobe Bryant and in today's NBA.

Know how many championships Dirk has? 1 know how many Duncan has? 4. Wanna know why? Because HE plays D. Dirk doesn't and that has hurt his teams greatly. Give Duncan Finely and Nash and you'd have a dynasty. You said Dirk makes players better something Dwight can't do so then why did Nash become an MVP calibre player upon leaving the Mavs? Give Duncan Nash and Nash would undoubtedly be a better player than he was with Dirk.

Tim Duncan turned that franchise around his first two championships he didn't have any all star caliber help and yet still made it look easy. Now that Dirk has done the same for his first championship Timmy is suddenly a product of the system dude... GTFO you are a utter and complete waste of time.

Roddy Buckets has a ring... sure!!! What did he do this post season to earn that ring? Stop being PSDs biggest douche for once and act your age dude.

drobe86
06-20-2011, 07:09 AM
Please quote where I said that.

As I and basically everyone else has told you time and time again in this thread. You don't even understand what is being debating.

How the EFFFFFF can Tim Duncan be a product of a system. Are you going out of your mind right now. Tim Duncan IS the system, he is the most fundamentally sound and least flawed player of the past decade in the NBA that's why HE has more championships than anyone not named Kobe Bryant and in today's NBA.

Know how many championships Dirk has? 1 know how many Duncan has? 4. Wanna know why? Because HE plays D. Dirk doesn't and that has hurt his teams greatly. Give Duncan Finely and Nash and you'd have a dynasty. You said Dirk makes players better something Dwight can't do so then why did Nash become an MVP calibre player upon leaving the Mavs? Give Duncan Nash and Nash would undoubtedly be a better player than he was with Dirk.

Tim Duncan turned that franchise around his first two championships he didn't have any all star caliber help and yet still made it look easy. Now that Dirk has done the same for his first championship Timmy is suddenly a product of the system dude... GTFO you are a utter and complete waste of time.

Roddy Buckets has a ring... sure!!! What did he do this post season to earn that ring? Stop being PSDs biggest douche for once and act your age dude.



As I said I'm not going to argue about Tim Duncan becuause he's been to the top of the mountain. Now, all that crap you said about he's the least fundamentally flawed and all that isn't true at all. If he was so great he wouldn't have gotten his *** handed to him in that Grizzlies series. Z-Bo and Gasol took turns bending him over and forcing their will on him. He looked awful. And not even you can say he didn't... The entire basketball world wanted to know if Timmy was done after that series... And after that beatdown Its safe to say he is... As for Nash and Finley. You seem to not understand that Finley was on the DOWNSIDE of his career when Dirk was a budding superstar. Finley was a great player in the 90's but by 2002-2003 he wasn't the same. Nash also wasn't the same player and as established with Dallas as he was the Suns. The Mavs didn't win a championship in the early 2000's because they were a team coached by Don Nelson that didn't do anything but run up and down the court. The Mavs were very good in transition, but sucked in the half court game (due to having no decennt C's) and played 0 defense. This 2010-11 championship team is the complete opposite of that. They play both of ends of the court and execute as well in the half court sets as well as any team in the last 20 years.... So yes you are right about Dirk having Nash and Finley, but those guys were in different stages of their careers at that time. Yet, you still discredit guys like Avery Johnson, Sean Elliot, and even the Hall of Famer David Robinson. Tim Duncan had plenty of help. Also wasn't that the lockout season and they only played like 50 games? And you're counting that as a championship? Anybody can play well at 50 games and go on a little run in the playoffs. It's about what you can do for a full 82 and THEN compete in the playoffs...

blacknell
06-20-2011, 08:11 AM
And dirk will never be able to grab 14 boards a game and be the best defensive player in the league. What's your point?

And Howard will doen't have a ring now get you hating arse on sucka MC

Heediot
06-20-2011, 08:17 AM
Business is business, I'd do it faster than Usain Bolt's beijing performance.

Dirk 1-2 peak years left.

Atleast 8 peak years left.

Forget the sentiments you gotta think long term.

MagicHero3
06-20-2011, 08:25 AM
wow this could possibly be the DUMBEST idea for a thread I've seen. Dirk for Dwight? Dirk is on his last legs and Dwights just getting there. You people are so delusional. WERE NOT TRADING DWIGHT! were gonna trade EVERYONE ELSE and if dwight doesnt like it then we are screwed after next season.
The point is WERE NOT TRADING HIM
and this trade idea is friggin horrible

Swashcuff
06-20-2011, 09:50 AM
As I said I'm not going to argue about Tim Duncan becuause he's been to the top of the mountain. Now, all that crap you said about he's the least fundamentally flawed and all that isn't true at all. If he was so great he wouldn't have gotten his *** handed to him in that Grizzlies series. Z-Bo and Gasol took turns bending him over and forcing their will on him. He looked awful. And not even you can say he didn't... The entire basketball world wanted to know if Timmy was done after that series... And after that beatdown Its safe to say he is... As for Nash and Finley. You seem to not understand that Finley was on the DOWNSIDE of his career when Dirk was a budding superstar. Finley was a great player in the 90's but by 2002-2003 he wasn't the same. Nash also wasn't the same player and as established with Dallas as he was the Suns. The Mavs didn't win a championship in the early 2000's because they were a team coached by Don Nelson that didn't do anything but run up and down the court. The Mavs were very good in transition, but sucked in the half court game (due to having no decennt C's) and played 0 defense. This 2010-11 championship team is the complete opposite of that. They play both of ends of the court and execute as well in the half court sets as well as any team in the last 20 years.... So yes you are right about Dirk having Nash and Finley, but those guys were in different stages of their careers at that time. Yet, you still discredit guys like Avery Johnson, Sean Elliot, and even the Hall of Famer David Robinson. Tim Duncan had plenty of help. Also wasn't that the lockout season and they only played like 50 games? And you're counting that as a championship? Anybody can play well at 50 games and go on a little run in the playoffs. It's about what you can do for a full 82 and THEN compete in the playoffs...

Rubbish utter rubbish.

Let's see how well Dirk handles a two some of Gasol and Randolph with no Tyson Chandler or Brendan Haywood, just Mahimi. He'll be raped so badly we won't be able to walk after it all.

You are so slow it amazes me. You say Nah and Finely were at different stages in their careers well so was Elliot, Robinson, Johnson, Stephen Jackson, Steve Smith, Manu and Parker during Duncan's first 2 championships. He still got the job done.

I think its time to put you on my ignore list because the level of garbage you speak in your posts is beyond unbelievable. Because the season was shortened. You say anybody can play 50 games and go on a run in the playoffs. You are truly special and is desperate need of psychiatric help. I feel sorry for you.

King Drew
06-20-2011, 10:05 AM
def would not make that trade. franchise player he'll he on that team until he decides he's no longer fit.

JordansBulls
06-20-2011, 02:09 PM
def would not make that trade. franchise player he'll he on that team until he decides he's no longer fit.

:confused:

drobe86
06-20-2011, 02:13 PM
Rubbish utter rubbish.

Let's see how well Dirk handles a two some of Gasol and Randolph with no Tyson Chandler or Brendan Haywood, just Mahimi. He'll be raped so badly we won't be able to walk after it all.

You are so slow it amazes me. You say Nah and Finely were at different stages in their careers well so was Elliot, Robinson, Johnson, Stephen Jackson, Steve Smith, Manu and Parker during Duncan's first 2 championships. He still got the job done.

I think its time to put you on my ignore list because the level of garbage you speak in your posts is beyond unbelievable. Because the season was shortened. You say anybody can play 50 games and go on a run in the playoffs. You are truly special and is desperate need of psychiatric help. I feel sorry for you.

Alright well we will just agree to disagree. I'm not going to bash you like you've done me throught this thread. Your opinion is your opinion and I respect it. I gave major credit to Tim Duncan for winning his championships. But with perennial all star caliber players in Parker and Ginobili he should. Not discrediting Duncan, but he's had a stellar cast his ENTIRE career. And yes i'm including the players that you consistently hate on. (elliot, robinson, bowen, parker, ginobili, stephen jackson, etc.) Add that to the fact that he's been coached by POP his whole career. Care to tell me that Pop isn't superior to that of Don nelson or Avery Johnson?


Getting back to the thread... I don't trade Dirk Nowitzki for Dwight Howard. I love dwight as an individual player but i don't think he wins a championship the number 1 option on a team. he could prove me wrong but i doubt it. We're going on 8 years for Dwight and he hasn't put it all together despite working with NBA Hall of Famer Pat Ewing. So you have to ask yourself if he hasn't gotten it done yet what leads me to believe he will? Thats my honest to god opinion. I HOPE he does win a ring in his prime but I'm very doubtful. As I stated in a previous post, he's in a similiar boat as Lebron james. Guys that are out of this world when you look at their numbers. But when you get deep in the playoffs they look like a deer in headlights. Dwight played extremely well vs. Atlanta though. But anytime you score 48 and grab 20 rebounds you should win and they didn't. Dwight Howard, Lebron James, and Tracy Mcgrady are 3 of the most talented players to ever suit up on an NBA Uniform. But at the end of their careers we will all wonder what they could have been. Individual skills and accomplishments don't always equate to team success and these are 3 guys that have dominated stat sheets for years, but came up lame in the playoffs...

cle12152433
06-20-2011, 02:27 PM
This is an absurd thread. Howard can't do half the things Dirk can.

He is better on defense and THATS IT. If he is not in the paint, he isnt scoring. He OBVIOUSLY has no three point shot. He doesnt have Dirk's free-throw magic, and he sure as hell isn't sneaking around Chris Bosh at the top of the paint to make a game winning lay-up.

This should be a no-brainer.

IMO Dirk is up there with LeBron, Kobe, Wade etc. He just doesnt get the vibe as much because Dallas isnt flashy like LA, Miami, Boston, Chicago, and Cleveland (with LeBron). They win games quietly and dont run their mouths.

Not to mention Dirk has remained loyal through all the hardships (maybe LeBron should take a note or two, seeing as how their career's have been similar ie. losing in a Finals and not having enough to make it back, up to this year.) In Howard, you have a guy who has openly come out and said im not signing an extension with a WHOLE YEAR left on his contract. No way a deal like this would go down.

I-4_Fan
06-20-2011, 02:27 PM
As magic fan I would hate this deal. Don't care what any one wants to say. Orlando would need more.

Swashcuff
06-20-2011, 02:35 PM
Alright well we will just agree to disagree. I'm not going to bash you like you've done me throught this thread. Your opinion is your opinion and I respect it. I gave major credit to Tim Duncan for winning his championships. But with perennial all star caliber players in Parker and Ginobili he should. Not discrediting Duncan, but he's had a stellar cast his ENTIRE career. And yes i'm including the players that you consistently hate on. (elliot, robinson, bowen, parker, ginobili, stephen jackson, etc.) Add that to the fact that he's been coached by POP his whole career. Care to tell me that Pop isn't superior to that of Don nelson or Avery Johnson?

:laugh:

I hate on those players? Care to explain to me how great those player you listed were at the time TD won his first 2 championships.

I would like to explain something to you. Unlike yourself I don't hate on any player in the NBA. No one. I respect each and everyone of their game. You said yourself you HATE Tim Duncan. That in itself is all I need to know about the way in which you view him. Had Duncan been a member of the Mavs and lead your team to 4 titles you'd never hate him, you'd never think he's overrated you'd never think he was only good because of the players he was surrounded with (which is hands the the WORST argument you've made in this entire thread).

At any time did you see me mention anything about Pop being an inferior coach. We were debating their teammates all along. There was no debate of coaching.


Getting back to the thread... I don't trade Dirk Nowitzki for Dwight Howard. I love dwight as an individual player but i don't think he wins a championship the number 1 option on a team. he could prove me wrong but i doubt it. We're going on 8 years for Dwight and he hasn't put it all together despite working with NBA Hall of Famer Pat Ewing. So you have to ask yourself if he hasn't gotten it done yet what leads me to believe he will? Thats my honest to god opinion. I HOPE he does win a ring in his prime but I'm very doubtful. As I stated in a previous post, he's in a similiar boat as Lebron james. Guys that are out of this world when you look at their numbers. But when you get deep in the playoffs they look like a deer in headlights. Dwight played extremely well vs. Atlanta though. But anytime you score 48 and grab 20 rebounds you should win and they didn't. Dwight Howard, Lebron James, and Tracy Mcgrady are 3 of the most talented players to ever suit up on an NBA Uniform. But at the end of their careers we will all wonder what they could have been. Individual skills and accomplishments don't always equate to team success and these are 3 guys that have dominated stat sheets for years, but came up lame in the playoffs...

Again as I REPEAT! Prior to this season all the crap you just said about Howard and LeBron was said about Dirk. Everyone thought he wasn't tough enough to lead a team all the way. It took Dirk 13 seasons to win his first title. How can you say Howard/James will not win one until the end of their career. Dirk was always said to be a player who couldn't win one as the man and HE won one this year. Lemme guess your response.. "those people didn't know what they were talking about". Well guess what YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

cle12152433
06-20-2011, 02:36 PM
As magic fan I would hate this deal. Don't care what any one wants to say. Orlando would need more.

:facepalm:

bringinwood
06-20-2011, 04:35 PM
The best center for the last 5 years for Dirk ...

With an extension, how do you not pick Dwight...

I'm sorry but **** loyalty...

It's as overrated a topic in sports as one can possibly imagine...

To think that Dirk doesn't benefit from staying with the Mavs just as much as the Mavs do is kind of ignorant logic...

The talent levels are close, but what Dwight can do on the defensive end is irreplaceable...

The Mavs without Dirk are still a playoff team... The Magic without Dwight are a lottery team with a shot at the first pick...


As far as whether Cuban would or not... I think he's dumb enough to not pull the trigger on that deal and then try to justify it somehow...

JordansBulls
06-20-2011, 11:30 PM
The Mavs without Dirk are still a playoff team... The Magic without Dwight are a lottery team with a shot at the first pick...


As far as whether Cuban would or not... I think he's dumb enough to not pull the trigger on that deal and then try to justify it somehow...

They were 2-7 without him last season.