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View Full Version : Is Dirk the only player to win a Ring without a star?



blacknell
06-15-2011, 08:19 AM
Is Drik the only player in NBA history to win a ring without a Superstar or All star player playing beside him? So does that make him the most dominant player in NBA playoffs history as well?

NYKalltheway
06-15-2011, 08:22 AM
Pistons 2004?
You mistyped the thread title btw ;)

JasonJohnHorn
06-15-2011, 08:39 AM
Elvin Hayes: but he had Wes. Though Hayes was the only AS on his team that year.

Ben Wallace: Soul Piston AS in 2004

Jordon: 91

Hakeem: 94

Hakeem: 95 as well


Jason's on fire :p

lol
just trying to get to 2000 posts so I can see what my ranking is then ;-)

lol

Time Duncan: 2003

I'm done. Totally washed out on this one now. lol

Swashcuff
06-15-2011, 08:41 AM
Who did Hakeem have again? Thought so.

NYKalltheway
06-15-2011, 08:43 AM
Jason's on fire :p

asandhu23
06-15-2011, 08:43 AM
George Mikan, *****es.

JasonJohnHorn
06-15-2011, 08:44 AM
Duncan: 99 (no AS that year, but Duncan was the only guy with the Spurs to be on an ALL_NBA team


Jason Kidd: All Star, Star, Hall of Famer
Jason Terry: Pretty good player as well...

Does Dallas have the "stars" that Miami does...no....but he isn't a one man team by any means

Shawn Marion has been on the ALLNBA 3rd team twice, and Chandler has been on the All-Defensive team. And Peja is also a former all-star. This team has a LOT of great players.

Dirk, Terry, Kidd, Chandler, Marion, Peja. SICK! Plus great role players. And yes, I know, Peja got zero minutes in the finals, but he was a big reason they could spread the floor against teams like LA and get there.


I am guessing he means All Star in the current season in which they played. If not you can add Shawn Marion and Peja Stojakovic to that list. That however wouldn't make much sense since both those players are shells of their former selves.

J. Kidd was an all star last season but that was more by default than by all star calibre play IMO.

Hold on cowboy! Marion played AMAZING this year. People get down on the guy because his numbers have taken a hit since leaving the Suns, but his defence has always been top notch, he's still on top of his game, and you throw him onto a team that makes him the first or second option, he's dropping 20+ no problem.

I agree with you on Peja, but he was a solid role player in the first few rounds. Having a vet like that on the bench is a huge help.

And Kidd's D and hussle have no aged a day.


Shawn Marion of 2011 is not Shawn Marion of 2006. He is a shell of his former self. He is now a role player and not longer an All Star calibre player. He performed his role and well at that but he isn't the player opposing coaches spend hours on figuring out how best to deal with him. He isn't the player he was.

I could bet anything on God's green earth that Marion comes no where near to 20+ ppg at this stage in his career. A huge part of his game was athleticism and the fast pace offense he played in in Phoenix. You mean to tell me 5 years older that he's still the same player he was then. You need to hold on Cowboy.

I can't believe you said Shawn Marion is still at the top of his game. Dallas could have used that top of his game player when Dirk went down in the regular season you know. Where was the Marion of old then? Stop overvaluing these guys. They played a great role in the Mavs championships but one would be foolish to say that they are the same players they were during their best years.

He was pretty awesome in Phoenix. No doubt!

Still, I think he's accepted a smaller role because he is on a deep team. If he was required to socre 20, he could. But he's not required to. He's there for defence. Dallas runs their offence through Dirk, but you throw Marion back with Nash, and a high octane offence, or one where he is the secondary scorer, he coudl still drop 20.

I dont expect him to score 20 again, and you are right, he is not as athletic as he was in Phoenix, but a 'shell' of his former self is harsh. He was better four years ago, yes. But he's still great. Any team would take him in a heart beat and most would be starting him. Peja, he is a shell of his former self. All-star, to guy who isnt even getting minutes in the finals. Its like Mitch Richmond winning with LA. But Marion helped to shut down James this series, and did a great job of it. He illustrated that the defensive rep he earned his name on, has not slowed with age, but stayed firm. Like my c@ck! ;-) joking, well, its not right now, but it could be if i needed it to be.


smoke what I'm rolling?


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Are you high Jason? :laugh2:

Anywho. I hear what you are saying and shell of his former self is indeed a bit harsh so I shall retract that statement and say he isn't the player he once was (20 and 10 with the ability to consistently knock down the 3 and guard opposing 4s with ease). That's my opinion on it. I don't think he's still capable of dropping 20+ every game if asked to.


I believe we have found some middle ground here! I can get behind that.

It feels nice to meet somebody half way.

cheers!


Wasn't Drexler on those teams?

Drexler was on the 95 team, Thorpe was on the 94 team. Neither were All-Stars the year they won it.

I believe the thread is about guys who one it with players who werent all-stars that year, because Dallas have several All-Stars and at least two HOF players on their roster this season.

Though in my opinion, Thorpe and Drexler were both all-star calibre players the year they won it.

Vottomatic19
06-15-2011, 08:49 AM
Is Drik the only player in NBA history to win a ring without a Superstar or All star player playing beside him? So does that make him the most dominant player in NBA playoffs history as well?

Jason Kidd: All Star, Star, Hall of Famer
Jason Terry: Pretty good player as well...

Does Dallas have the "stars" that Miami does...no....but he isn't a one man team by any means

Swashcuff
06-15-2011, 08:54 AM
Jason Kidd: All Star, Star, Hall of Famer
Jason Terry: Pretty good player as well...

Does Dallas have the "stars" that Miami does...no....but he isn't a one man team by any means

I am guessing he means All Star in the current season in which they played. If not you can add Shawn Marion and Peja Stojakovic to that list. That however wouldn't make much sense since both those players are shells of their former selves.

J. Kidd was an all star last season but that was more by default than by all star calibre play IMO.

Swashcuff
06-15-2011, 09:08 AM
Hold on cowboy! Marion played AMAZING this year. People get down on the guy because his numbers have taken a hit since leaving the Suns, but his defence has always been top notch, he's still on top of his game, and you throw him onto a team that makes him the first or second option, he's dropping 20+ no problem.

I agree with you on Peja, but he was a solid role player in the first few rounds. Having a vet like that on the bench is a huge help.

And Kidd's D and hussle have no aged a day.

Shawn Marion of 2011 is not Shawn Marion of 2006. He is a shell of his former self. He is now a role player and not longer an All Star calibre player. He performed his role and well at that but he isn't the player opposing coaches spend hours on figuring out how best to deal with him. He isn't the player he was.

I could bet anything on God's green earth that Marion comes no where near to 20+ ppg at this stage in his career. A huge part of his game was athleticism and the fast pace offense he played in in Phoenix. You mean to tell me 5 years older that he's still the same player he was then. You need to hold on Cowboy.

I can't believe you said Shawn Marion is still at the top of his game. Dallas could have used that top of his game player when Dirk went down in the regular season you know. Where was the Marion of old then? Stop overvaluing these guys. They played a great role in the Mavs championships but one would be foolish to say that they are the same players they were during their best years.

Swashcuff
06-15-2011, 09:25 AM
He was pretty awesome in Phoenix. No doubt!

Still, I think he's accepted a smaller role because he is on a deep team. If he was required to socre 20, he could. But he's not required to. He's there for defence. Dallas runs their offence through Dirk, but you throw Marion back with Nash, and a high octane offence, or one where he is the secondary scorer, he coudl still drop 20.

I dont expect him to score 20 again, and you are right, he is not as athletic as he was in Phoenix, but a 'shell' of his former self is harsh. He was better four years ago, yes. But he's still great. Any team would take him in a heart beat and most would be starting him. Peja, he is a shell of his former self. All-star, to guy who isnt even getting minutes in the finals. Its like Mitch Richmond winning with LA. But Marion helped to shut down James this series, and did a great job of it. He illustrated that the defensive rep he earned his name on, has not slowed with age, but stayed firm. Like my c@ck! ;-) joking, well, its not right now, but it could be if i needed it to be.


smoke what I'm rolling?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Are you high Jason? :laugh2:

Anywho. I hear what you are saying and shell of his former self is indeed a bit harsh so I shall retract that statement and say he isn't the player he once was (20 and 10 with the ability to consistently knock down the 3 and guard opposing 4s with ease). That's my opinion on it. I don't think he's still capable of dropping 20+ every game if asked to.

wjmoffatt
06-15-2011, 09:28 AM
George Mikan, *****es.

Most underrated ball player ever!

mike_noodles
06-15-2011, 09:34 AM
Yeah, with two former all stars with him and one of them being a first ballot hall of famer, the o/p has nothing to stand on here. As for Olajuwan, he played with Drexler, Duncan in 99 had Robinson, Duncan in 03 had Parker, Jordan in 91 had Pippen, the Pistons may have only had one AS in 04, pretty sure 4 of them were AS in 05.

I don't think it should count when you only think of the year they won the championship, but rather the teammate's whole career.

nycericanguy
06-15-2011, 09:39 AM
Dirk did it with an interesting group of players. No all star help for sure. I mean DAL has no clearcut 2nd best player. Is it Kidd? Terry? Marion? Chandler?

People saying Kidd & Marion WERE all-stars, thats a bit silly, they clearly are not now.

Thats like saying Dwight Howard has help because Arenas WAS an all star before.

Swashcuff
06-15-2011, 09:40 AM
Yeah, with two former all stars with him and one of them being a first ballot hall of famer, the o/p has nothing to stand on here. As for Olajuwan, he played with Drexler, Duncan in 99 had Robinson, Duncan in 03 had Parker, Jordan in 91 had Pippen, the Pistons may have only had one AS in 04, pretty sure 4 of them were AS in 05.

I don't think it should count when you only think of the year they won the championship, but rather the teammate's whole career.

Hakeem didn't play with Drexler until his 2nd title run.

BlondeBomber41
06-15-2011, 09:59 AM
Jason Terry was the only teammate Dirk had who you could consistently expect to even get 15 points before the game started after Caron went down. I think thats more unique then anything else, him not even having a true #2 option.

McJoe
06-15-2011, 10:07 AM
Have you ever watched basketball before? PLENTY of teams don't have more than 1 superstar...regardless of the fact that Dirk isn't the only "star" on that team depending on your definition.

Tarheels23
06-15-2011, 10:16 AM
The mavs entire team is full of former all stars

nycericanguy
06-15-2011, 10:19 AM
Have you ever watched basketball before? PLENTY of teams don't have more than 1 superstar...regardless of the fact that Dirk isn't the only "star" on that team depending on your definition.

I'm pretty sure the OP was asking about teams that actually won a ring...not just teams that only have 1 star.

nycericanguy
06-15-2011, 10:20 AM
The mavs entire team is full of former all stars

yes it is

FriedTofuz
06-15-2011, 10:21 AM
jason kidd was an allstar recently, because of stern. your thread title is misleading, you wrote" is he the only player to win a ring with a star" when he had no star... and if you were really talking about stars, than thats pretty much every playoff team.

JordansBulls
06-15-2011, 10:23 AM
Is Drik the only player in NBA history to win a ring without a Superstar or All star player playing beside him? So does that make him the most dominant player in NBA playoffs history as well?

No.
Jordan in 1991 and 1998 didn't have another allstar on the Bulls. Hakeem in 1994 and 1995 didn't have another allstar on the Rockets. Rick Barry in 1975 won a title with no other allstar that year as well. Same for Duncan in 2003.

Car Ramrod
06-15-2011, 10:26 AM
Hakeem didn't play with Drexler until his 2nd title run.

You are right on this, but his supporting cast for both championships weren't exactly bad either. Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, Vernon Maxwell, Otis Thorpe and Kenny Smith were more than serviceable. Not too mention Mario Elie played the best basketball of his career.

But you can't take anything away from Hakeem. To this day I haven't seen a centre than can move like he could.

Hitman21
06-15-2011, 10:35 AM
NO...winning one championship in 13 seasons does not make you the most dominant player in playoff history.

stlbest5in2013
06-15-2011, 10:44 AM
Jason Kidd: All Star, Star, Hall of Famer
Jason Terry: Pretty good player as well...

Does Dallas have the "stars" that Miami does...no....but he isn't a one man team by any means


a star is a top ten player in the league maybe 15, not a fan voted all star popularity contest.

kidd will be a HOF, kidd is not a star now or an all star.

i hate how people do not understand the voting of the all star games. all star does not mean star. i mean freaking yao ming was voted a starter this year. does this now make yao ming a dominate 2010-2011 player? hell no

kdspurman
06-15-2011, 10:56 AM
Yeah, with two former all stars with him and one of them being a first ballot hall of famer, the o/p has nothing to stand on here. As for Olajuwan, he played with Drexler, Duncan in 99 had Robinson, Duncan in 03 had Parker, Jordan in 91 had Pippen, the Pistons may have only had one AS in 04, pretty sure 4 of them were AS in 05.

I don't think it should count when you only think of the year they won the championship, but rather the teammate's whole career.

In 03 I dont really think you can count parker. He wasn't a star. Speedy claxton played the final minutes of big games cause parker was still relatively new to the team and was struggling

PhillyFaninLA
06-15-2011, 10:57 AM
Hakeem: 95 as well

Second title has Clyde Drexler and he's a hall of famer.

Chronz
06-15-2011, 10:58 AM
This year has confused me just as much as that 2003 year did when Duncan won it. Depth isnt suppose to compensate for the lack of talent

Dstmccoy
06-15-2011, 11:00 AM
jason kidd: All star, star, hall of famer
jason terry: Pretty good player as well...

Does dallas have the "stars" that miami does...no....but he isn't a one man team by any means


this

nycericanguy
06-15-2011, 11:06 AM
Jason Kidd: All Star, Star, Hall of Famer
Jason Terry: Pretty good player as well...

Does Dallas have the "stars" that Miami does...no....but he isn't a one man team by any means

Kidd is not a star anymore, we're not talking about past accolades here. If we were you might as well put Peja as an MVP type all star as well because Peja once was top 3 in MVP voting, or maybe top 5, don't remember.

Terry is a pretty good player, but its a given that DAL has pretty good players, 1 guy is not going to win a ring with a bunch of scrubs. But Dirk had no legit all star next to him.

Dark Donnie
06-15-2011, 11:18 AM
Hakeem: 94


Hakeem: 95 as well

Wasn't Drexler on those teams?

NJrockPD
06-15-2011, 11:21 AM
Jason Kidd: All Star, Star, Hall of Famer
Jason Terry: Pretty good player as well...

Does Dallas have the "stars" that Miami does...no....but he isn't a one man team by any means

Don't forget Shawn Marion.

sep11ie
06-15-2011, 11:25 AM
Lol at this TOTAL FAIL of a thread.

Chronz
06-15-2011, 11:44 AM
Yea this thread should have been worded differently. **** making the all-star team, it should be about having all-star caliber players. Some players miss the all-star game because of injury but are healthy come playoff time.

Like MJ never won without an All-Star, Pippen was always an All-Star, he made it in 1989 but missed it in 1990 because people felt Milwaukee needed another A-S even though Ricky Pierce wasnt even good enough to keep past the AS Game. But only a complete ****** would say Scottie wasnt an A-S, or not as good as he was the year prior or not on Pierce's level.

NJrockPD
06-15-2011, 11:49 AM
Jason Kidd (Rookie of the Year, 5X NBA 1st team, NBA 2nd team, 4X D 1st Team, 4X D 2nd Team) Legit Starter
Jason Terry (2009 6th man Award Winner) Legit Starter
Shawn Marion (1st round pick, 11 year NBA starter) Legit Starter
Dirk Nowitzki STAR
Tyson Chandler (1st round pick, All-Defensive 2nd Team 2011) Legit Starter

Jose Juan Barea (Excellent Post Season) GREAT BACKUP
Rodrigue Beaubois (1st round pick, 8.4 ppg off the bench) Good Backup
Corey Brewer (1st round pick, 13 ppg as a 82 game starter) Good Backup
Caron Butler (1st rounde pick, borderline all-star) Starting Quality Player
Brian Cardinal Veteran Bench Player and 3 pt specialist
Brendan Haywood (1st round pick, Defensive big, long time starter) Good Backup
DeShawn Stevenson (1st round pick, long time starter) Good Backup
Peja Stojakovic (All-NBA 2nd Team 2004) Veteran Bench Player and 3 pt specialist
Dominique Jones Bench Warmer
Ian Mahinmi Bench Warmer

I think this is a pretty solid team from top to bottom. I think Dirk is a great player, but I think the Mavs were a great team.

TChef02
06-15-2011, 11:50 AM
I'd say the last 10-15 years it's been rare to see an NBA champion without multiple stars on the roster but prior to the late 90's/early 2000's I think it was a lot more frequent. It does kind of depend on what you consider a star though. The Jordan years had Bulls teams with few stars but Pippen, Rodman, Grant, etc. who were very good players and borderline stars themselves.

Dirk is a star without a doubt but he also had some bad games in the finals. Despite his bad shooting nights his teammates were still able to keep games close so it's hard to buy an implication that Dirk won on his own as the star on the team. Terry averaged 17+ ppg and although he doesn't have a very impressive state line I think Tyson Chandler was one of the most dominant big men in the NBA this year on defense.

JordansBulls
06-15-2011, 11:50 AM
Yea this thread should have been worded differently. **** making the all-star team, it should be about having all-star caliber players. Some players miss the all-star game because of injury but are healthy come playoff time.

Like MJ never won without an All-Star, Pippen was always an All-Star, he made it in 1989 but missed it in 1990 because people felt Milwaukee needed another A-S even though Ricky Pierce wasnt even good enough to keep past the AS Game. But only a complete ****** would say Scottie wasnt an A-S, or not as good as he was the year prior or not on Pierce's level.

He was no allstar that year in 1991. And 1998 he definitely wasn't.

Chronz
06-15-2011, 11:54 AM
He was no allstar that year in 1991. And 1998 he definitely wasn't.
Then go ahead and refute the claims Ive made, this should be HILARIOUS

DoJoTheSlasher
06-15-2011, 12:00 PM
Yeah, with two former all stars with him and one of them being a first ballot hall of famer, the o/p has nothing to stand on here. As for Olajuwan, he played with Drexler, Duncan in 99 had Robinson, Duncan in 03 had Parker, Jordan in 91 had Pippen, the Pistons may have only had one AS in 04, pretty sure 4 of them were AS in 05.

I don't think it should count when you only think of the year they won the championship, but rather the teammate's whole career.

Considering Jason Kidd is 38 and Shawn Marion is 34 and averaged 12 ppg this year, yeah I think he does have a point. In that case Boston should have never lost a game since they had a top 10 player of all time on their team in Shaq along with a 20/10 center in Jermaine O Neal.

JordansBulls
06-15-2011, 12:01 PM
Then go ahead and refute the claims Ive made, this should be HILARIOUS

Didn't make the allstar team nor was he on either the 1st, 2nd or 3rd team all nba.

sixer04fan
06-15-2011, 12:06 PM
Iverson came damn close in '01, he literally had no one... Snow, Lynch, Mckie, Tryone Hill... I guess you could say Mutombo counted as the second "star" but come on.

HouRealCoach
06-15-2011, 12:12 PM
Jordan did it, Hakeem did it... and Marion, Kidd, Terry are most certainly not role players

So no

Double_R
06-15-2011, 12:13 PM
Forget about who else had lesser around them, look at who the Mavs went through to win:
Kobe, Pau, Durant, Westbrook, Wade, Bosh, Lebron. Atleast 4 of those guys are in the top 5 or 6 players in the NBA. That is pretty impressive as well as Dirk being the sole dominant force on his team, even though the team is a well balanced team with many good players.

Chronz
06-15-2011, 12:13 PM
Didn't make the allstar team nor was he on either the 1st, 2nd or 3rd team all nba.
Let me get this straight, your going to refute the fact that he wasnt an All-Star by mentioning he didnt make the All-Star game? A fact that I explained away in the initial post?

TRY AGAIN

Pippen WAS an All-Star unless your on record as saying Ricky Pierce was a superior player or that Pippen took a step BACKWARDS in his development.

Pippen didnt go from being an All-Star to missing it, to back to making it due to fluctuations in his own ability. He improved every year, even if your precious all-star births dont show it.

Again its not about recognition, its about PERFORMANCE. Pippen was an All-Star PERIOD. Only a truly biased MJ homer or Pippen hater would suggest otherwise.

Tell me whos the better player:

Player A: All-Star, All-NBA, 19.1PER/3.5WS in 64 games for a team that missed the playoffs

OR

Player B: 20.6PER/11.2WS with ELITE D in 82 games on the best team in basketball.


HMMM yea that recognition truly falls short when compared to their actual ability. Pippen was more of an All-Star than Bernard King in 91.

Now imagine comparing Pippen to RICKY PIERCE. EXPLAIN THAT. If you can assemble a rational argument that explains why Ricky Pierce was more of an All-Star than Pippen, despite not winning as much, not producing as much, and not being seen as worth keeping midway through your teams run, do that then Ill care about your opinion on the matter. Until then your just a blind MJ homer

Swashcuff
06-15-2011, 12:14 PM
Iverson came damn close in '01, he literally had no one... Snow, Lynch, Mckie, Tryone Hill... I guess you could say Mutombo counted as the second "star" but come on.

Chronz is going to tell you to read his blog and attempt to school you in 3.....2.....1

:D

Chronz
06-15-2011, 12:14 PM
Jordan did it, Hakeem did it... and Marion, Kidd, Terry are most certainly not role players

So no

LMFAO

Wait so let me get this straight, Marion and Kidd and Terry are Stars but Scottie Pippen, Rodman/Grant were role players?

Pass that **** to the left homie


Iverson came damn close in '01, he literally had no one... Snow, Lynch, Mckie, Tryone Hill... I guess you could say Mutombo counted as the second "star" but come on.

I respect your opinion but could you take the time to refute mine?

Read my blog:

The Most Overrated Individual Seasons of the 2K ERA (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/blog.php?b=3490)

Swashcuff
06-15-2011, 12:21 PM
I respect your opinion but could you take the time to refute mine?

Read my blog:

The Most Overrated Individual Seasons of the 2K ERA (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/blog.php?b=3490)

I called it!!! :p and right on time as well.... am I good or am I good?!?!

JordansBulls
06-15-2011, 12:21 PM
Let me get this straight, your going to refute the fact that he wasnt an All-Star by mentioning he didnt make the All-Star game? A fact that I explained away in the initial post?

TRY AGAIN

Pippen WAS an All-Star unless your on record as saying Ricky Pierce was a superior player or that Pippen took a step BACKWARDS in his development.

Pippen didnt go from being an All-Star to missing it, to back to making it due to fluctuations in his own ability. He improved every year, even if your precious all-star births dont show it.

Again its not about recognition, its about PERFORMANCE. Pippen was an All-Star PERIOD. Only a truly biased MJ homer or Pippen hater would suggest otherwise.

Tell me whos the better player:

Player A: All-Star, All-NBA, 19.1PER/3.5WS in 64 games for a team that missed the playoffs

OR

Player B: 20.6PER/11.2WS with ELITE D in 82 games on the best team in basketball.


HMMM yea that recognition truly falls short when compared to their actual ability. Pippen was more of an All-Star than Bernard King in 91.

Now imagine comparing Pippen to RICKY PIERCE. EXPLAIN THAT. If you can assemble a rational argument that explains why Ricky Pierce was more of an All-Star than Pippen, despite not winning as much, not producing as much, and not being seen as worth keeping midway through your teams run, do that then Ill care about your opinion on the matter. Until then your just a blind MJ homer

Disagree, Pierce was more dominant and could carry a team more than Pippen at the time. Not to mention Pierce was traded later. Also you would have to remember how things were at the time not in hindsight. With Bernard King he missed most of his games from the end of March till the end of April. So yes for when the allstar game was he was more deserving. In hindsight after seeing him miss games, then no he wasn't.

HouRealCoach
06-15-2011, 12:29 PM
LMFAO

Wait so let me get this straight, Marion and Kidd and Terry are Stars but Scottie Pippen, Rodman/Grant were role players?

Pass that **** to the left homie



I respect your opinion but could you take the time to refute mine?

Read my blog:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/blog.php?b=3490 (The Most Overrated Individual Seasons of the 2K ERA)

He said superstar and NO ONE on Jordans team was a superstar... Scottie Pippen was an all star in my mind and Jordan but what gets me about that team was Luc Longley so I mite be wrong but Jordan could, and as far as Rodman and Grant he won three without the both I mean they helped but if they werent there it would have had no effect

Dirk has played with Nash, Finley, Jamison, Walker, Howard, Stackhouse, Terry, Kidd, Marion, Chandler, Butler with alot more role players... He NEVER was the only ****ing star on his team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chronz
06-15-2011, 01:02 PM
Disagree, Pierce was more dominant and could carry a team more than Pippen at the time.
Think about the meaning of this accusation, your saying that a player more dominant than Pippen, couldnt even start for his inferior team and was traded for a player the likes of Dale Ellis. When the eye test and the statistical test fail, your opinion is flawed. Pierce was a nice scorer but he could not dominate the game in ways a TRUE All-Star like Pippen could.


Also you would have to remember how things were at the time not in hindsight. With Bernard King he missed most of his games from the end of March till the end of April. So yes for when the allstar game was he was more deserving.
Not if you want 20/20 hindsight, even I agreed with your opinion (which I dont because Pippen was the superior performer throughout) your acting as if people didnt know of Kings season when it came time to vote for All-NBA Teams. They had the advantage of hindsight and still ****ed it up, sometimes reputations go further than performance.


In hindsight after seeing him miss games, then no he wasn't.
Well this is the only thing that matters, its not as if MJ would have had an easier time winning a title if he had Pierce or King instead of Pippen this year. Pippen was more of an All-Star than either of these guys.

desertrat218
06-15-2011, 01:04 PM
Is Drik the only player in NBA history to win a ring without a Superstar or All star player playing beside him? So does that make him the most dominant player in NBA playoffs history as well?

What more does Jason Kidd have to accomplish before he is considered a star?

Chronz
06-15-2011, 01:07 PM
He said superstar and NO ONE on Jordans team was a superstar...
First of all what difference does it make, you could put the bar as high as you want it and the fact will still remain that Pippen was closer to reaching that level than ANYONE on the Mavs.




Scottie Pippen was an all star in my mind and Jordan but what gets me about that team was Luc Longley so I mite be wrong but Jordan could,
Not sure what you mean by the bolded


and as far as Rodman and Grant he won three without the both I mean they helped but if they werent there it would have had no effect

LOL because he always had one or the other, the year he had neither he lost.


Dirk has played with Nash, Finley, Jamison, Walker, Howard, Stackhouse, Terry, Kidd, Marion, Chandler, Butler with alot more role players... He NEVER was the only ****ing star on his team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No doubt, but we are talking about THIS YEAR. The year he won the title

Chronz
06-15-2011, 01:09 PM
What more does Jason Kidd have to accomplish before he is considered a star?

Well for one he could perform like one, sadly considering his age, is all but impossible at this point.

tyfreaks brotha
06-15-2011, 01:11 PM
He doesn't have any stars around him but he has a very nice supporting cast..

Giantwarrior
06-15-2011, 01:12 PM
Dirk did have a Hall of Fame player in Jason Kidd to win a title. Kidd probably didnt but up alot of points but he had a hell of a playoff run. he played great Defense on Kobe and Lebron.

RaiderLakersA's
06-15-2011, 01:12 PM
Jason Kidd: All Star, Star, Hall of Famer
Jason Terry: Pretty good player as well...

Does Dallas have the "stars" that Miami does...no....but he isn't a one man team by any means

Agree strongly.

Let's close the door on the ridiculous emphasis on one man championship teams. That perception is completing ruining the NBA.

Chronz
06-15-2011, 01:24 PM
Agree strongly.

Let's close the door on the ridiculous emphasis on one man championship teams. That perception is completing ruining the NBA.

X2

Ill admit that this whole 1 man thing is overblown because Dirk wasnt THAT impressive, its still one of the better title runs of recent memory but MJ despite playing alongside Pippen had superior runs.

I will say this tho, depth isnt suppose to win out in the playoffs.

smith&wesson
06-15-2011, 01:33 PM
Pistons 2004?
You mistyped the thread title btw ;)

rip, chauncy & sheed were allstars

DoJoTheSlasher
06-15-2011, 01:36 PM
X2

Ill admit that this whole 1 man thing is overblown because Dirk wasnt THAT impressive, its still one of the better title runs of recent memory but MJ despite playing alongside Pippen had superior runs.

I will say this tho, depth isnt suppose to win out in the playoffs.

Dirk wasn't THAT impressive?

Round 1 vs Portland:

6 Games
27.3 PPG
7.8 RPG
3.0 APG
45.2 FG%
88.9 FT%
44.4 3PT %

Round 2 vs Lakers:

4 Games
25.3 PPG
9.3 RPG
2.5 APG
57.4 FG%
93.8 FT%
72.7 3PT%

Round 3 vs Thunder:

5 Games
32.2 PPG
5.8 RPG
2.6 APG
55.7 FG%
96.7 FT%
36.4 3PT%

Round 4 vs Heat:

6 Games
26.0 PPG
9.7 RPG
2.0 APG
41.6 FG%
97.8 FT%
36.8 3PT%

2011 NBA Playoffs:

21 Games
27.7 PPG
8.1 RPG
2.5 APG
48.5 FG%
94.1 FT%
46.0 3PT%

Considering he scored 62 points in the 4th quarter of the NBA Finals compared to 62 total between LeBron and Wade.

This was one of the best playoff runs we have seen by a single player.

edit: I saw you said it was still one of the best playoff runs.

LA_Raiders
06-15-2011, 01:39 PM
Dang, Cowboys getting owned here... lol

mlisica19
06-15-2011, 01:56 PM
Hakeem had Drexler in 95... Idk bout u but hes pretty big star. Top 50 actually player of all time.

And no, Dirk is by far not the only one to win with out a big name partner. As far as star goes? Winning a championship means you probably have a ton of good players and a few great players. Dirk would not have won if Jason Kidd did not play as great as he did on defense or If JJ barea and terry did not show up on offense as great as they did. Shall i mention the coach? What a great coach who constantly confused Miamis throwdown offense and who limited their transitional play.

Jordan probably would have not won as many rings as he did, or probably any if Phil Jackson was not his coach. Maturing the young star into a legend as he built a well equipped, diverse team around the great player. (*other factors must be included)

U dont win by urself and it doesnt mean it has to be a co star next to you.

VillaMaravilla
06-15-2011, 01:57 PM
hakeem

AI4MVP
06-15-2011, 01:59 PM
Dirk Nowitzki is the best player in the NBA. Beating the Lakers and Heat en route to a NBA Championship and Finals MVP with no other star power while Kobe has Pau, Lebron has Wade, Boston has its big 4. Not taking away from the legendary greatness of Jason Kidd, but he isnt what he used to be.

smith&wesson
06-15-2011, 01:59 PM
lol ... people seriously need to go back and watch pippen play. if pippen had an ego and wanted to be traded to a team where he would be the guy. he would have been a super star. consider the facts ok. when you play with the greatest of all time your numbers and popularity could take a hit. ever think of that ?

pippen was an absolute stud. shame on you for discrediting the man. he sacrificed alot of personal acheivments for the greater good in being a 6 time champion;

cubswin25
06-15-2011, 03:25 PM
Actually what Hakeem did in 94 is probably the closest to this Mavs team. But you can also say the Pistons won in 04 without a legit superstar too. The term "star" is a big misleading and more of a judgement thing. For example all the Bulls teams that won championships had more then one star. Pippen might not have gotten credit for how good he was yet in 90-91 season. But he was a up coming star who averaged 17.8 PPG,7.2 RPG and 6.3 APG. That's a pretty good number 2 player on any championship team and the only reason Pippen wasn't a allstar in 98 was because he was hurt. So lets look over this


91-Jordan/Pippen
92-Jordan/Pippen
93-Jordan/Pippen
94- Hakeem
95- Hakeem/Drexler
96-Jordan/Pippen
97-Jordan/Pippen
98-Jordan/Pippen
99-Duncan/Robinson
00-Kobe/Shaq
01-Kobe/Shaq
02-Kobe/Shaq
03-Duncan/Parker
04-None(no superstar but 3 allstar caliber players)
05-Duncan/Parker
06-Wade/Shaq
07-Duncan/Parker
08-Pierce/Garnett/Allen
09-Kobe/Gasol
10-Kobe/Gasol
11-Dirk

Yes Jason Kidd is a former allstar and future hall of fame player. But at 38 he is no longer performing at that level. Shawn Marion has also been a very good player, but he's no longer performing at that allstar level either. Jason Terry is a quality player as well, but hasn't really been seen as a allstar level player much in his career. So when you consider that and factor in the stages some of those players are at in there careers. Probably not since the 94 Rockets as there been a team with one superstar, and not a current allstar level number 2 player on the team with him. That said as I pointed out above, the Pistons won a title without a superstar and just 3 quality number 2 allstar level players and good supporting players. So that can be done, but it's very hard to do. But winning a title with just one superstar, and good supporting cast is also hard to do. Best way to win a title is a superstar or two, or superstar and good allstar level number 2 player, mixed with good supporting cast.

drobe86
06-15-2011, 03:45 PM
Blacknell you are correct Dirk is a top 10 player All Time. He took down some great teams in this years playoffs. Dallas had probably the toughest post season schedule of all time. Dirk took down the likes of Portland, LA, OKC, and the almighty Heat. And he did that with the 2nd best player on his team injured and not playing.... This championship is more of a testament to the Great Dirk Nowitzki than the Mavs being a Super Team. The Mavs supporting cast played very well in spots down the stretch, but they are nowhere near as consistent as PSD posters make them out to be. These guys talk about JJ Barea like he's an all star player. When in the first 3 or 4 games he was awful. I really like jJ, Terry, Marion and etc. but these guy aren't consistent at all. Dirk went down for 11 games and we went 2-9. Where were these guys then? But it doesn't matter. Mavs are 2011 NBA champs.... I've been waiting 18 years to say that

BKdoubleStacker
06-15-2011, 03:50 PM
Blacknell you are correct Dirk is a top 10 player All Time. He took down some great teams in this years playoffs. Dallas had probably the toughest post season schedule of all time. Dirk took down the likes of Portland, LA, OKC, and the almighty Heat. And he did that with the 2nd best player on his team injured and not playing.... This championship is more of a testament to the Great Dirk Nowitzki than the Mavs being a Super Team. The Mavs supporting cast played very well in spots down the stretch, but they are nowhere near as consistent as PSD posters make them out to be. These guys talk about JJ Barea like he's an all star player. When in the first 3 or 4 games he was awful. I really like jJ, Terry, Marion and etc. but these guy aren't consistent at all. Dirk went down for 11 games and we went 2-9. Where were these guys then? But it doesn't matter. Mavs are 2011 NBA champs.... I've been waiting 18 years to say that

lulz

he is not even close to being a top 10 player. He is not even a good defender or rebounder, just a great scorer. Dont act like he doesnt have a stacked team. He might not have a star next to him, but he has a lot of very good pieces. Butler is a shell of his former self and is not a better player than terry, marion, chandler, etc.

drobe86
06-15-2011, 04:01 PM
lulz

he is not even close to being a top 10 player. He is not even a good defender or rebounder, just a great scorer. Dont act like he doesnt have a stacked team. He might not have a star next to him, but he has a lot of very good pieces. Butler is a shell of his former self and is not a better player than terry, marion, chandler, etc.

Right so where were these guys in December when Dirk went down? Why did they only win 2 out of 11 games? Its hard for you to ague with me there. That record spoke for itself. Don't let those guys having a few good games have you thinking those guys are GREAT player because they aren't. Dirk put that team on his back and won a championship. Take Dirk off that team and we're in the lottery

BKdoubleStacker
06-15-2011, 04:11 PM
Right so where were these guys in December when Dirk went down? Why did they only win 2 out of 11 games? Its hard for you to ague with me there. That record spoke for itself. Don't let those guys having a few good games have you thinking those guys are GREAT player because they aren't. Dirk put that team on his back and won a championship. Take Dirk off that team and we're in the lottery

...and when did I say they were great players??

They are probably the most well balanced team in the NBA. You have a mixture of defenders and 3 point shooters as well as speed guys who can score. Yea I guess Terry averaging 18 ppg in the finals means nothing, as well as stevenson and marion bothering lebron and contributing offensively as well.

I didnt say he isnt their best player, so stop putting words in my mouth. You could take off a teams best player and they would suck too, so I dont get what you are trying to say. I wonder how well the magic would be without dwight, how good the bulls would be without rose, or the thunder with no durant.

Tuck&Rolle
06-15-2011, 04:14 PM
George Mikan, *****es.

That sig is ****ing hilarious

D-Leethal
06-15-2011, 04:37 PM
94 Rockets were Hakeem and a bunch of nobodies

bulls leakage
06-15-2011, 04:48 PM
jason kidd was an allstar recently, because of stern. your thread title is misleading, you wrote" is he the only player to win a ring with a star" when he had no star... and if you were really talking about stars, than thats pretty much every playoff team.

You've got to be kidding me.... Right, Stern rigged the all-star game so Jason Kidd would get in :rolleyes: Big bucks for Stern!

How dumb are you?

sports4life1989
06-15-2011, 05:01 PM
...and when did I say they were great players??

They are probably the most well balanced team in the NBA. You have a mixture of defenders and 3 point shooters as well as speed guys who can score. Yea I guess Terry averaging 18 ppg in the finals means nothing, as well as stevenson and marion bothering lebron and contributing offensively as well.

I didnt say he isnt their best player, so stop putting words in my mouth. You could take off a teams best player and they would suck too, so I dont get what you are trying to say. I wonder how well the magic would be without dwight, how good the bulls would be without rose, or the thunder with no durant.

The Thunder would still be a decent team because of westbrook. Compared to like the Magic and Bulls I believe the Thunder would still be a competitive team imo.

NothingbutWill
06-15-2011, 05:52 PM
Do people just randomly create threads without knowing the facts first?

8kobe24
06-15-2011, 06:22 PM
Actually what Hakeem did in 94 is probably the closest to this Mavs team. But you can also say the Pistons won in 04 without a legit superstar too. The term "star" is a big misleading and more of a judgement thing. For example all the Bulls teams that won championships had more then one star. Pippen might not have gotten credit for how good he was yet in 90-91 season. But he was a up coming star who averaged 17.8 PPG,7.2 RPG and 6.3 APG. That's a pretty good number 2 player on any championship team and the only reason Pippen wasn't a allstar in 98 was because he was hurt. So lets look over this


91-Jordan/Pippen
92-Jordan/Pippen
93-Jordan/Pippen
94- Hakeem
95- Hakeem/Drexler
96-Jordan/Pippen
97-Jordan/Pippen
98-Jordan/Pippen
99-Duncan/Robinson
00-Kobe/Shaq
01-Kobe/Shaq
02-Kobe/Shaq
03-Duncan/Parker
04-None(no superstar but 3 allstar caliber players)
05-Duncan/Parker
06-Wade/Shaq
07-Duncan/Parker
08-Pierce/Garnett/Allen
09-Kobe/Gasol
10-Kobe/Gasol
11-Dirk

Yes Jason Kidd is a former allstar and future hall of fame player. But at 38 he is no longer performing at that level. Shawn Marion has also been a very good player, but he's no longer performing at that allstar level either. Jason Terry is a quality player as well, but hasn't really been seen as a allstar level player much in his career. So when you consider that and factor in the stages some of those players are at in there careers. Probably not since the 94 Rockets as there been a team with one superstar, and not a current allstar level number 2 player on the team with him. That said as I pointed out above, the Pistons won a title without a superstar and just 3 quality number 2 allstar level players and good supporting players. So that can be done, but it's very hard to do. But winning a title with just one superstar, and good supporting cast is also hard to do. Best way to win a title is a superstar or two, or superstar and good allstar level number 2 player, mixed with good supporting cast.

11-Dirk, and teammates that stepped up and played their hearts out.

Big 2, Big 3, it doesn't matter. The team that wins the championship is the team that plays as unit and leaves it all out on the floor...specially in 4th quarters.

Hangtime
06-15-2011, 06:31 PM
Generally the superstar like Dirk, Duncan and Hakeem just to name a few had the biggest impact but we should not disrespect their teammates because they were at latter stages in their career. David Robinson was still key to the Spurs success in 99 as he accepted a different role with Duncan. The same with Kid, not the star player he once was, but he was healthy and played a veteran role that was equally important especially when it came to facing a young star who needs to mature in Westbrook. He played outstanding defense as well.

Billups played like a superstar in 04 but the two Wallaces, Tayshaun, and Hamilton had a great run as well and they all played defense the way Larry Brown wanted.

I really felt that back in 94 it was anybody's trophy. Hakeem had a great supporting cast and he simply outplayed his contemporaries enroute to the finals where he faced what I thought was a similar team in the Patrick Ewing led Knicks. Not really an all star studded cast in NY so it came down to the centers and Hakeem won that battle. Dirk probably had the most impressive journey. He is still considered Dallas's primary superstar and he defeated a team with 3 or 2 and a half however you feel about Bosh.

drobe86
06-15-2011, 06:35 PM
Generally the superstar like Dirk, Duncan and Hakeem just to name a few had the biggest impact but we should not disrespect their teammates because they were at latter stages in their career. David Robinson was still key to the Spurs success in 99 as he accepted a different role with Duncan. The same with Kid, not the star player he once was, but he was healthy and played a veteran role that was equally important especially when it came to facing a young star who needs to mature in Westbrook. He played outstanding defense as well.

Billups played like a superstar in 04 but the two Wallaces, Tayshaun, and Hamilton had a great run as well and they all played defense the way Larry Brown wanted.

I really felt that back in 94 it was anybody's trophy. Hakeem had a great supporting cast and he simply outplayed his contemporaries enroute to the finals where he faced what I thought was a similar team in the Patrick Ewing led Knicks. Not really an all star studded cast in NY so it came down to the centers and Hakeem won that battle. Dirk probably had the most impressive journey. He is still considered Dallas's primary superstar and he defeated a team with 3 or 2 and a half however you feel about Bosh.



+1 its all about the TEAM. Dallas didn't have a legitimate 2nd option like todays championship teams have. But those role players stepped up and put it all on the line... NOBODY can win it by themself. But theres only a handfull of superstars that put the team on their back and carried them. And Dirk Nowitzki did that

blacknell
06-15-2011, 06:38 PM
Who did Hakeem have again? Thought so.

Cylde Drexler= HOF

dodie53
06-15-2011, 06:53 PM
everybody had somebody

The Final Boss
06-15-2011, 06:54 PM
Who gives a ****?

knicks4life33
06-15-2011, 06:57 PM
Here are my top 5 lebron jokes:

1) heard lebron skipped college cuz he doesnt know how to deal with finals.

2) i heard theres a new lebron james phone coming out. It only vibrates cause it has no rings.

3)a wife tells her husband" i want to name our son lebron james" the husband replies "i dont like it" it just doesnt have a ring to it.

4)dont ask lebron change for a dollar cause he only has 3 quaters.

5) today is national lebron james day, everyone gets to leave work 12 minutes early

cubswin25
06-15-2011, 07:14 PM
Cylde Drexler= HOF

Hakeem won in 94 with no Drexler. Hakeem had Kenny Smith at PG, Vernon Maxwell at SG, Robert Horry at SF and Otis Thorpe at PF. That same team struggled in 95, then made a trade for Drexler at the deadline to repeat as champs. Even though they were the 6th seed in the West.

Swashcuff
06-15-2011, 07:29 PM
Cylde Drexler= HOF

O so Clyde was there the first year Hakeem carried those Rockets to the Championship by himself.... I guess he was even worst than LeBron was because I didn't even knew he played for em.

JordansBulls
06-15-2011, 10:39 PM
Hakeem won in 94 with no Drexler. Hakeem had Kenny Smith at PG, Vernon Maxwell at SG, Robert Horry at SF and Otis Thorpe at PF. That same team struggled in 95, then made a trade for Drexler at the deadline to repeat as champs. Even though they were the 6th seed in the West.

2 years earlier when Thorpe made the allstar team the Rockets didn't even make the playoffs.

Swashcuff
06-15-2011, 10:42 PM
2 years earlier when Thorpe made the allstar team the Rockets didn't even make the playoffs.

One year earlier Jason Kidd was an all star.

mlisica19
06-16-2011, 12:09 AM
Dirk was not alone at all... he had a bench that scored 33 points in the first half of Game 6 that decided the series. His bench was stellar all game. Jason Kidd may not have been the ALL STAR PG he use to be but did anyone watch his all series. His defensive play was inspiring, how many steals and turnovers did he force.

Barea played like an all star pg that entire series, and Terry showed up as well.

Hakeem was great, but he couldnt win with Jordan in the league. No one could. He was a winner.

Dirk def goes down as a top 20, but top 10? Idk, his defense is strong but is it amongst the elite? His offense is def top 10, but his all around game? HMMMM idkkkkk. Yet when you lead a team to an NBA championship, win the NBA finals MVP and already has an MVP trophy... only 11 players (including him) have ever done so. So def top 20, but idk about 10.

1. Jordan- idc what you say, hes the best. defense, offense, winning, focus, leadership
2. Magic- Can play any position at a dominant level
3. Kareem- Legend, evolved the way of scoring... should be no diss in him being #3
4. Wilt- Hot head, amazing athlete... most dominant in stats but 2 rings and late in his career.
5. Bird-
6. Hakeem
7. Russel
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. Shaq
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Moses Malone

Not necessarily in order but still.. i named ten guys who are better than Dirk.

Where does he rank amongst these guys? I think Shaqs legacy is more dominant, for now. Dirk still has years to go. I think he beats Moses Malone for now, but I dont think Robertson just quite yet. One ring and an NBA final MVP doesnt cut it just yet... Hes got a few more years to go. Its even tough for me to say Kobe is better than Shaq... not that I dont think he will in another proven season or two guaranteed (let alone his possible another 5 years haha)

210Don
06-16-2011, 12:11 AM
timmy in 03
and the guy that said tony. tony was horrible that playoff run.....

Mrphilly
06-16-2011, 12:23 AM
Is Drik the only player in NBA history to win a ring without a Superstar or All star player playing beside him? So does that make him the most dominant player in NBA playoffs history as well?

Is this a serious question??? With all this new found Dirk dick riding. I might start to hate him as much as people hate Lebron.

Dirk had a great playoffs, but he didnt do it alone. If you were watching, you seen that, so whats up with this silly *** question?

John Walls Era
06-16-2011, 12:27 AM
Mavs have a lot of washed up AS.

PapelbonLester
06-16-2011, 12:37 AM
Is this serious? Terry, Kidd, Chandler, Marion are all above avg players. What did Dirk start off in game 6 1-13? Did anyone else not ****in relise this? Terry shot lights out otherwise we'd be watching a game 7 tomarro!!!!

CHILL20
06-16-2011, 02:07 AM
^You speak the truth my friend. Dirk went EXTREMELY cold in the first half of that game (said it was even weird to him). But Barea and the bench were lights out and Terry was a freaking monster in game 6! Dirk came through in the end when it counted but he would have never gotten the chance had the other players not been playing out of their minds. I don't see how anyone can say his homies were not great players. Terry really stepped it up in the last three games topped off with with burying an out of the ball park three right in Lebron James face! JJ Barea was getting the paint at WILL at one point.

What happened in the regular season doesn't matter, they were all great players for Dirk when it mattered...the post-season.

AI4MVP
06-16-2011, 03:18 AM
Here are my top 5 lebron jokes:

1) heard lebron skipped college cuz he doesnt know how to deal with finals.

2) i heard theres a new lebron james phone coming out. It only vibrates cause it has no rings.

3)a wife tells her husband" i want to name our son lebron james" the husband replies "i dont like it" it just doesnt have a ring to it.

4)dont ask lebron change for a dollar cause he only has 3 quaters.

5) today is national lebron james day, everyone gets to leave work 12 minutes early

im so using these

Mrphilly
06-16-2011, 03:54 AM
Here are my top 5 lebron jokes:

1) heard lebron skipped college cuz he doesnt know how to deal with finals.

2) i heard theres a new lebron james phone coming out. It only vibrates cause it has no rings.

3)a wife tells her husband" i want to name our son lebron james" the husband replies "i dont like it" it just doesnt have a ring to it.

4)dont ask lebron change for a dollar cause he only has 3 quaters.

5) today is national lebron james day, everyone gets to leave work 12 minutes early

These has to be the corniest jokes i ever heard. I hope the people you tell these jokes to are not carrying tomatos.