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Mile High Champ
06-14-2011, 09:14 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last three years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 3 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best

Here is a comparison of the 6 players in the poll from last season.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=willide01&y1=2011&p2=nashst01&y2=2011&p3=westbru01&y3=2011&p4=rosede01&y4=2011&p5=rondora01&y5=2011&p6=kiddja01&y6=2011

2011 Top 10 PG RANKINGS

1) Chris Paul
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)


2010 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Deron Williams
2) Chris Paul
3) Steve Nash
4) Rajon Rondo
5) Derrick Rose
6) Chauncey Billups
7) Russel Westbrook
8) Tony Parker
9) Jason Kidd
10) Tyreke Evans

2009 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Chris Paul
2) Deron Williams
3) Chauncey Billups
4) Tony Parker
5) Steve Nash
6) Derrick Rose
7) Devin Harris
8) Rajon Rondo
9) Jose Calderon
10) Jason Kidd

2008 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Chris Paul
2) Steve Nash
3) Deron Williams
4) Baron Davis
5) Tony Parker
6) Jason Kidd
7) Chauncey Billups
8) Gilbert Arenas
9) Jose Calderon
10) Andre Miller

Mile High Champ
06-14-2011, 09:16 AM
Poll is now up, let the debate continue.

Gators123
06-14-2011, 09:18 AM
Deron Williams

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 09:23 AM
Derrick Rose

SteBO
06-14-2011, 09:24 AM
Derrick Rose. No doubt in my mind about that.

Mile High Champ
06-14-2011, 09:28 AM
Very tough call for me but in the end I still like Williams more. Rose should easily get the third spot but I do believe Williams to be the better player. I know Williams was not healthy this past season but when healthy I would give the edge to Williams every time. Here is the comparison of all 6 players in the poll.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=willide01&y1=2011&p2=nashst01&y2=2011&p3=westbru01&y3=2011&p4=rosede01&y4=2011&p5=rondora01&y5=2011&p6=kiddja01&y6=2011

Mc Uncle Cola
06-14-2011, 09:30 AM
DWill should be #1

Mile High Champ
06-14-2011, 09:32 AM
DWill should be #1

I think the top 3 can be interchangeable to be honest but Paul easily took home the top spot in the last poll.

Hawkeye15
06-14-2011, 09:33 AM
part of me is hesitant to vote for Rose here. Williams has been so good so long, and had one season of injuries and turmoil. But the way Rose played this season, and the rate of improvement he has made, just make me believe that he will seperate himself from Deron next season.

I voted for Rose.

Hawkeye15
06-14-2011, 09:35 AM
DWill should be #1

not after his play last season. Yes we all know he was injured, but he simply didn't produce like some others.

Besides, that poll is closed. Vote for #2.

alencp3
06-14-2011, 09:37 AM
Yeah sure Rose had the better season, but Deron is still the better player and the better POINT GUARD

SteBO
06-14-2011, 09:42 AM
Yeah sure Rose had the better season, but Deron is still the better player and the better POINT GUARD
That's fair in some ways, but after this past season, Deron Williams has some proving to do before I can put him back over Rose. He didn't produce enough to justify him being even the #2 PG in the league.

Rivera
06-14-2011, 09:43 AM
again im in the same sitation as the cp3

i wold take d-will to run my team over rose

but based of one season...based off the "right now" i have to go with rose he had a better year and played a better season then deron

i gotta go rose

Strumpy
06-14-2011, 09:48 AM
I hope we get the polls right this year.
Last year's rankings was full of homerism.
Let's see if PSD can get it done this year.

PrettyBoyJ
06-14-2011, 09:49 AM
D-Will.. D-rose is right behind

Master Mind
06-14-2011, 09:50 AM
Derrick Rose.

sixer04fan
06-14-2011, 09:54 AM
I think the top 3 can be interchangeable to be honest but Paul easily took home the top spot in the last poll.

Yup... The top 3 are tough. It's hard enough to compare Deron and CP3. Throwing in Rose, the league MVP, who's not a traditional PG at all makes the debate that much harder.

I went with Deron though on this one. Rose could easily be 1, 2, or 3 though, no disrespect to him.

jp611
06-14-2011, 09:54 AM
Well theres gonna be some mad homerism here, everyone outside of Chicago hates Rose, so D-Will will take this, when we all know thats wrong

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 09:58 AM
Yeah sure Rose had the better season, but Deron is still the better player and the better POINT GUARD

That's still left to be seen. With the rapid improvements Derrick Rose has made in his first 3 years of his career. To say that Derron is still the better may be a bit of a stretch. At least that is my opinion.

Jetsguy
06-14-2011, 09:58 AM
I think Rose proved this year he is the guy here. It is obviously between him and DWill and Williams just had a down year while Rose had an awesome year...

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 09:59 AM
Well theres gonna be some mad homerism here, everyone outside of Chicago hates Rose, so D-Will will take this, when we all know thats wrong

Most don't hate Rose..... what most hate is the way some Chicago fans overate him. He is an amazing player, one of the best but some Chicago fans tend to go a bit overboard when discussing him.

ManRam
06-14-2011, 10:23 AM
I was talking to someone else on the site, and we both concluded that most people here don't hate Rose, they just hate the hype he got, and got so quickly. I was obviously openly outspoken against Rose for most of the year (finally settling on him deserving the MVP) because that's what I felt and concluded, not because I hated the guy. I really like Rose, I do just not like all the hype he did get all the time, and it got annoying to many people.

With that said, I vote Rose here at #2. Deron has every ability to be better, but I'm not sure right now I can safely say he is.

Rocketsfan85
06-14-2011, 10:43 AM
D-Will is #2

Slimsim
06-14-2011, 10:44 AM
D rose

Tarheels23
06-14-2011, 10:54 AM
Deron is the better player. Rose had the better stats...

For me its 2. Williams, 3. Rose

Cool007
06-14-2011, 11:00 AM
Derrick Rose. No doubt in my mind about that.

This.

D.Will is HUGELY overrated by most (for those who have him at top 2).

He never had PER higher than Rose and CP3.

I know PER is not the best way to do the comparison but it does account a lot of stuff. Also, he has been in the league for how many years now and still Rose has had better PER than D.Will.

Cool007
06-14-2011, 11:03 AM
Most don't hate Rose..... what most hate is the way some Chicago fans overate him. He is an amazing player, one of the best but some Chicago fans tend to go a bit overboard when discussing him.

But doesn't it even out???

There are haters there who put Rose in the top 15 while there are fanboys who put him in the top 3.

So IMO it all evens out.

What matters is your unbiased or non-hatred opinion. If everyone did that, the forum world would be a much better place.

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 11:21 AM
But doesn't it even out???

There are haters there who put Rose in the top 15 while there are fanboys who put him in the top 3.

So IMO it all evens out.

What matters is your unbiased or non-hatred opinion. If everyone did that, the forum world would be a much better place.

No it doesn't. When you have posters saying stuff like Rose is already the 2nd best player in Chicago Bulls history it doesn't even out. I think that's worst than someone saying he's just top 15.

For the most part all NBA fans respect Rose and respect his game but there are more than a few fans who overate more so than any other player for any other fan base.

To your last point I fully agree but from your posting history on the topic of Derrick Rose you do the exact opposite.

BullsFTW
06-14-2011, 11:23 AM
I can't believe Derrick Rose is the #2 point guard in the NBA. He should be number one. It doesn't matter what his stats said. He proved he's a winner and can carry a team. So who gives a s**t if he's not putting up point guard numbers, he consistently carried his team to victories. For anyone of who even think Deron is the better player as well, go **** yourselves. Rose won his match-ups against CP3 and D-Will. Really the MVP only 2nd best at his position, you haters need to get real.

SteBO
06-14-2011, 11:25 AM
I can't believe Derrick Rose is the #2 point guard in the NBA. He should be number one. It doesn't matter what his stats said. He proved he's a winner and can carry a team. So who gives a s**t if he's not putting up point guard numbers, he consistently carried his team to victories. For anyone of who even think Deron is the better player as well, go **** yourselves. Rose won his match-ups against CP3 and D-Will. Really the MVP only 2nd best at his position, you haters need to get real.
I don't see anything wrong with being the #2 PG(key word) in the league. :shrug:

BullsFTW
06-14-2011, 11:27 AM
I don't see anything wrong with being the #2 PG(key word) in the league. :shrug:

He should be #1

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 11:28 AM
I don't see anything wrong with being the #2 PG(key word) in the league. :shrug:

Of course you won't because you are an open minded logical NBA fan.

BullsFTW
06-14-2011, 11:31 AM
The Bulls defense were outstanding through out the past season. But who had to carry the load when both Boozer and Noah missed significant time. CP3 had a decent 1st Round performance because he was guarded by Fisher, but even then he was not consistent. Meanwhile, Rose has to carry his team during the playoffs because Boozer forgot to show up.

BullsFTW
06-14-2011, 11:32 AM
Of course you won't because you are an open minded logical NBA fan.

So I'm not open minded because I said Rose is the best point guard in the league?

jp611
06-14-2011, 11:33 AM
Swash is the biggest Rose hater around, don't even bother arguing with him

Tarheels23
06-14-2011, 11:34 AM
The Bulls defense were outstanding through out the past season. But who had to carry the load when both Boozer and Noah missed significant time. CP3 had a decent 1st Round performance because he was guarded by Fisher, but even then he was not consistent. Meanwhile, Rose has to carry his team during the playoffs because Boozer forgot to show up.

I got news for you, Rose forgot to show up in a lot of those playoff games too

BullsFTW
06-14-2011, 11:36 AM
Swash is the biggest Rose hater around, don't even bother arguing with him

There's Rose haters everywhere. Seriously, some people need to grow up. I can't believe the League MVP is considered only 2nd best at his own position. I thought he proved he's the best point guard in the league. I guess some people are just born ignorant.

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 11:36 AM
Swash is the biggest Rose hater around, don't even bother arguing with him

LMAOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! You OBVIOUSLY don't read my posts because I have defended Derrick Rose countless times against non Bulls fans who disrespect him. A Rose hater? You really don't read my posts you just see when I disagree with Bulls fans and label me a hater because of it.

jp611
06-14-2011, 11:38 AM
I got news for you, Rose forgot to show up in a lot of those playoff games too

Rose showed up, he just was forced to do so much, because his team didnt have anyone to take pressure off of him, another shot-creator would do wonders for him, he's also a 3rd year player and it was his 1st year out of the 1st round, he played horrible in the ECF and you gotta give the Heat credit for the way they played him on defense, but at the same time Rose was clearly tired from having to carry this team and he needs some help at the 2

BullsFTW
06-14-2011, 11:39 AM
I got news for you, Rose forgot to show up in a lot of those playoff games too

Oh really, I guess the 44 points vs Hawks is not showing up, or the 39 points and 36 points against the Pacers, or wait the other 30+ points against the Hawks. Why don't you look at what he did you idiot. The Bulls would've never made it to the ECF without Rose. Just stop the hate already.

BullsFTW
06-14-2011, 11:41 AM
LMAOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! You OBVIOUSLY don't read my posts because I have defended Derrick Rose countless times against non Bulls fans who disrespect him. A Rose hater? You really don't read my posts you just see when I disagree with Bulls fans and label me a hater because of it.

Anyone who considers the League MVP only 2nd best at his own position is what I would call a hater as well.

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 11:43 AM
There's Rose haters everywhere. Seriously, some people need to grow up. I can't believe the League MVP is considered only 2nd best at his own position. I thought he proved he's the best point guard in the league. I guess some people are just born ignorant.

Why is everyone who disagree with you guys that Rose is not the best PG in the league considered a hater?

As for your point of the MVP not being the best player at his position I'd say this to you.

69 was Wes Unseld the best C in the NBA?
78 was Bill Walton the best C in the NBA?
01 was Allen Iverson the best SG in the NBA?
07 was Dirk Nowitzki the best PF in the NBA?

Being the MVP doesn't automatically mean that you are the best player at your position. There is a lot more to being an MVP than just being the best. You're calling people ignorant but you aren't being any different yourself.

Tarheels23
06-14-2011, 11:44 AM
Rose showed up, he just was forced to do so much, because his team didnt have anyone to take pressure off of him, another shot-creator would do wonders for him, he's also a 3rd year player and it was his 1st year out of the 1st round, he played horrible in the ECF and you gotta give the Heat credit for the way they played him on defense, but at the same time Rose was clearly tired from having to carry this team and he needs some help at the 2

He also had some pretty horrible shooting performances in the other 2 series that they played in, but i agree he needs help (not just at the 2).

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 11:44 AM
Anyone who considers the League MVP only 2nd best at his own position is what I would call a hater as well.

This just shows how little you know of the game of basketball. MVP does NOT mean BEST PLAYER at a position. Those are 2 different things.

SteBO
06-14-2011, 11:46 AM
He should be #1
That's fine if that's your opinion, but you deemed those who don't think Rose is #1 "haters" because they think he's number 2. You make it sound like #2 is a bad thing, but let's actually discuss something here........

1) While Joakim Noah, Boozer were all injured, I'll agree with you that Rose held the fort down on his own, and helped carry them 62 wins this year. But let's not forget the fact that you guys had the best defense in the league, the best in years at that, and outrebounded teams by a pretty good margin. These two things, you can't really say Rose contributed to, unless you're going to take the Michael Wilbon route and say, "well Rose inefficiency isn't that bad of a thing because it allows offensive rebounds for the big guys". That notion is silly. Not saying Rose is a bad defender or rebounder, but he's hardly the main factor for that advantage the Bulls had over most teams.

2) Paul is the better passer, shooter, more efficient, and can run a team a little more effectively than Rose, with a significantly worse supporting cast. Paul plays in a much better overall conference too, while Rose went through the Pacers and Hawks this year. Don't get me wrong, Rose can surpass Paul with improvement in his overall game, but right now it's hard to put Rose over CP3, and that's not a bad thing at all. But you shouldn't call us "haters" just because we don't think Rose is #1.

ManRam
06-14-2011, 11:47 AM
There's Rose haters everywhere. Seriously, some people need to grow up. I can't believe the League MVP is considered only 2nd best at his own position. I thought he proved he's the best point guard in the league. I guess some people are just born ignorant.

Just because people don't vote Rose #1 doesn't make them haters. You're entitled to your opinions, and us to ours. You call people who vote Rose #2 or #3 haters, why shouldn't they just call you homers.

It's easy to name call...anyone can do that.

Like I said earlier, it's hard to hate Rose. It's easy to dislike the obsessive hype and defense he gets from his fans. I don't hate Rose, I dislike the immense hype and intense media-affection directed towards him.

I'll give him credit when he deserves credit...like him deserving the MVP...but MVP does not equate best player, not at all.

jp611
06-14-2011, 11:47 AM
I'm with Swash on this one, CP3 is still probably a better PG at this point, I voted Rose #1 and theres no other PG or player for that matter I'd want on my team than Derrick Rose, maybe thats a homer statement, but I just love the kid, from Chicago, does and says all the right things, continues and wants to improve, he just has a great mentality, I think this may be the year he surpasses CP3 though

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 11:47 AM
So I'm not open minded because I said Rose is the best point guard in the league?

You are free to have your own opinion. When you try to force that on others because you are in support of the player who plays for a favorite team you start being closed minded. Look in the #1 PG thread there are Bulls fans who think Rose is the best but can understand why others would say otherwise because of what Paul and Deron brings to the table. You disregard them all together because your favourite player won an award that little merit when speaking of who is the better player than whom.

Tarheels23
06-14-2011, 11:47 AM
Oh really, I guess the 44 points vs Hawks is not showing up, or the 39 points and 36 points against the Pacers, or wait the other 30+ points against the Hawks. Why don't you look at what he did you idiot. The Bulls would've never made it to the ECF without Rose. Just stop the hate already.

So you must be forgetting about his 4-18 and 6-22 against indy, or his 3point shooting of 1-9 against the Heat (overall 8-27), or the 9-29 game against the Heat. Or the 25pts on 27 shots against the Hawks. Rose is a volume scorer. Im not Hating at all, I think he is a nice player. But I wouldnt want him on my team if he is going to chuck up 28 shots per game

jp611
06-14-2011, 11:51 AM
So you must be forgetting about his 4-18 and 6-22 against indy, or his 3point shooting of 1-9 against the Heat (overall 8-27), or the 9-29 game against the Heat. Or the 25pts on 27 shots against the Hawks. Rose is a volume scorer. Im not Hating at all, I think he is a nice player. But I wouldnt want him on my team if he is going to chuck up 28 shots per game

In his defense, he HAD to take up that many shots this postseason, no one else would step up and take a shot, he clearly needs some help

sixer04fan
06-14-2011, 11:51 AM
There's Rose haters everywhere. Seriously, some people need to grow up. I can't believe the League MVP is considered only 2nd best at his own position. I thought he proved he's the best point guard in the league. I guess some people are just born ignorant.

You're the one that is coming off as ignorant buddy. Everyone here knows Rose is amazing. Did he deserve league MVP this year? Absolutely. Does that automatically mean he's the best PG in the league? Not necessarily.

Rose had my vote for MVP this year, he was the most valuable player to a great team, and he definitely deserved it. But I still think Chris Paul and Deron Williams are better PGs, sorry. Does not make me a "born ignorant hater?" If we we're all such haters, we wouldn't have said he deserved to be MVP.

No offense dude, but you need to get over yourself, take a chill pill, get a sniff of reality, and realize that we're not out to get you or D-Rose. I love D-Rose. But MVP doesn't mean best player, you realize that right? This is a universally known fact by anyone that follows sports.

BullsFTW
06-14-2011, 11:54 AM
I don't really care what your arguments are. Derrick Rose is the best point guard in the league in my opinion. If you're the league MVP then you must be the best at your own position. Look if you think CP3 is the better point guard then fine, I can careless. I'm just stating my opinion. All of you don't need to reply to everything I post. Nothing is going to change my mind.

SteBO
06-14-2011, 11:55 AM
In his defense, he HAD to take up that many shots this postseason, no one else would step up and take a shot, he clearly needs some help
This I agree with too. A SG that can score would be just what the doctor ordered for this team. It would ease the burden on Rose as well, and he'l' become a more efficient player that way, as well as his assist numbers increasing. Once he has players that can make shots consistently, there's no doubt he can average 10 assists per game, and then he could surpass CP3. Rose isn't far off from there anyway.

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 11:57 AM
I don't really care what your arguments are. Derrick Rose is the best point guard in the league in my opinion. If you're the league MVP then you must be the best at your own position. Look if you think CP3 is the better point guard then fine, I can careless. I'm just stating my opinion. All of you don't need to reply to everything I post. Nothing is going to change my mind.

Again I ask

was Wes Unseld, Bill Walton, Allen Iverson, Dirk Nowitzki, Dave Cowens and Willis Reed the best players at their respective positions when they won league MVP?

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 11:58 AM
This I agree with too. A SG that can score would be just what the doctor ordered for this team. It would ease the burden on Rose as well, and he'l' become a more efficient player that way, as well as his assist numbers increasing. Once he has players that can make shots consistently, there's no doubt he can average 10 assists per game, and then he could surpass CP3. Rose isn't far off from there anyway.

Imagine a healthy Brandon Roy on the Bulls.... :drool:

Crackadalic
06-14-2011, 12:14 PM
This one is hard. As much as i hate the hype and how people overrate him like he's the best thing since slice bread he's move pass D-will and move up to the number 2 pg this year

BullsFTW
06-14-2011, 12:20 PM
Again I ask

was Wes Unseld, Bill Walton, Allen Iverson, Dirk Nowitzki, Dave Cowens and Willis Reed the best players at their respective positions when they won league MVP?

Let me ask

Was Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Russell, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, Nash, Duncan, Malone, Barkley, West, Wilt, Roberston, Bird, Dr. J, Hakeem, Petit not the best at their respective positions when they won the MVP?

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 12:28 PM
Let me ask

Was Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Russell, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, Nash, Duncan, Malone, Barkley, West, Wilt, Roberston, Bird, Dr. J, Hakeem, Petit not the best at their respective positions when they won the MVP?

YES! Though Barkley/Malone can be debated.

Unseld and Reed both won while Wilt played in the league, Dirk won when Duncan was in the league, Cowens and Walton won when Kareem played, Iverson won when Kobe played, Rose won when Chris Paul played.


If you're the league MVP then you must be the best at your own position.

Remember that? Well I just proved you wrong but posters like yourself will never admit such because it goes against your bias.

Now tell me something are you will to answer my earlier question?

BullsFTW
06-14-2011, 12:34 PM
YES! Though Barkley/Malone can be debated.

Unseld and Reed both won while Wilt played in the league, Dirk won when Duncan was in the league, Cowens and Walton won when Kareem played, Iverson won when Kobe played, Rose won when Chris Paul played.



Remember that? Well I just proved you wrong but posters like yourself will never admit such because it goes against your bias.

Now tell me something are you will to answer my earlier question?

Why the hell would you ask me that question when you answered it yourself.

How am I wrong when you agreed that those players were the best at their position when they won MVP.

Cool007
06-14-2011, 12:36 PM
he can average 10 assists per game, and then he could surpass CP3. Rose isn't far off from there anyway.



I agree with you on the other parts but disagree with the bold part there.

Rose DOES NOT have to average 10apg or more to surpass CP3. As much as Rose is getting the Heat for having a horrible series vs Heat, CP3 should be getting a lot of blame as well which people conveniently want to ignore.

CP3 was nowhere to be found in the couple of the losses vs Lakers as well and Lakers defense was nowhere and I mean nowhere near the Heat's defense. But with CP3, people look at his great games and totally overlook the bad/no show games while continually point out Rose's bad games.

That is where double standard comes along.

CP3's regular season this year was NOT better than Rose's. I won't argue for you or others picking CP3 over Rose but IMO, Rose had a better season than CP3 this year without a doubt.

If CP3 comes back to his form from 2 years ago, then I would say he should be #1 PG unanimously. But until I see that CP3 again, I think Rose is #1 this past season.

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 12:39 PM
Why the hell would you ask me that question when you answered it yourself.

How am I wrong when you agreed that those players were the best at their position when they won MVP.

Did you not say that if you are the MVP then you must be the best player at you position? Historical FACTS disagrees with you, but I see you are just being immature and refuse to admit it so I know its just a waste of my time now.

BullsFTW
06-14-2011, 12:39 PM
I agree with you on the other parts but disagree with the bold part there.

Rose DOES NOT have to average 10apg or more to surpass CP3. As much as Rose is getting the Heat for having a horrible series vs Heat, CP3 should be getting a lot of blame as well which people conveniently want to ignore.

CP3 was nowhere to be found in the couple of the losses vs Lakers as well and Lakers defense was nowhere and I mean nowhere near the Heat's defense. But with CP3, people look at his great games and totally overlook the bad/no show games while continually point out Rose's bad games.

That is where double standard comes along.

CP3's regular season this year was NOT better than Rose's. I won't argue for you or others picking CP3 over Rose but IMO, Rose had a better season than CP3 this year without a doubt.

If CP3 comes back to his form from 2 years ago, then I would say he should be #1 PG unanimously. But until I see that CP3 again, I think Rose is #1 this past season.

Thank You! Someone logical for a change. THIS season, Derrick Rose was a better player than CP3.

rds1488
06-14-2011, 12:40 PM
you guys think that any gm would take cp3 or dwill over rose if they had the chance? Rose is the best player at the point guard postion, he may not be the best pg yet but he is the best player for the pg position in the nba today

Hawkeye15
06-14-2011, 12:41 PM
I can't believe Derrick Rose is the #2 point guard in the NBA. He should be number one. It doesn't matter what his stats said. He proved he's a winner and can carry a team. So who gives a s**t if he's not putting up point guard numbers, he consistently carried his team to victories. For anyone of who even think Deron is the better player as well, go **** yourselves. Rose won his match-ups against CP3 and D-Will. Really the MVP only 2nd best at his position, you haters need to get real.

and you need to understand why Rose won the MVP. Paul is the better player, but Rose's team was far better. The MVP goes to a player from a top 3 team, and with the LeBron hate, and no clear cut favorite, Rose emerged.

Of course you don't care what the stats say. They don't cater to your argument.

BullsFTW
06-14-2011, 12:41 PM
Did you not say that if you are the MVP then you must be the best player at you position? Historical FACTS disagrees with you, but I see you are just being immature and refuse to admit it so I know its just a waste of my time now.

How does history disagree with me when most of the time the winner of the MVP is the best at their position, including this year.

So tell me, looking at what the two had done this past season, why do you think CP3 is still a better player than D-Rose?

BullsFTW
06-14-2011, 12:44 PM
and you need to understand why Rose won the MVP. Paul is the better player, but Rose's team was far better. The MVP goes to a player from a top 3 team, and with the LeBron hate, and no clear cut favorite, Rose emerged.

Of course you don't care what the stats say. They don't cater to your argument.

Rose's stats were better than CP3's

Hawkeye15
06-14-2011, 12:45 PM
I don't really care what your arguments are. Derrick Rose is the best point guard in the league in my opinion. If you're the league MVP then you must be the best at your own position. Look if you think CP3 is the better point guard then fine, I can careless. I'm just stating my opinion. All of you don't need to reply to everything I post. Nothing is going to change my mind.

then why reply? State your pick and move on

Hawkeye15
06-14-2011, 12:45 PM
Rose's stats were better than CP3's

nope, they weren't.

Eagles4Lyfe
06-14-2011, 12:46 PM
not after his play last season. Yes we all know he was injured, but he simply didn't produce like some others.

Besides, that poll is closed. Vote for #2.

Huh?? Look at the roster he had, the fact he was still amazing when he played with that despicable roster tells me he still has it in him. If rose out performs him again this year then i can say rose but as of right now I'd still take deron

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 12:48 PM
WOW! Lets see Derrick Rose avg close to 10 asissts per game, what a great PG he can score!!! So I guess centers who score and dont rebound are the best centers in the league!!

Hawkeye15
06-14-2011, 12:49 PM
Huh?? Look at the roster he had, the fact he was still amazing when he played with that despicable roster tells me he still has it in him. If rose out performs him again this year then i can say rose but as of right now I'd still take deron

read my first post in this thread. Or my posts in the #1 thread. Look, I do have an issue with putting Rose ahead of DWill, until Rose can show continued play from this year. But DWill is coming off a rough year man. I have no issue switching back to Deron next year if he shows up and plays great.

Rose had a better year, flat out. And his improvements from year 1-2-3, give me the assumption he will be even better next year, and surpass Deron outright.

We agree here man. You just choose the wrong post to go after..

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 12:50 PM
How does history disagree with me when most of the time the winner of the MVP is the best at their position, including this year.

So tell me, looking at what the two had done this past season, why do you think CP3 is still a better player than D-Rose?

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

You are a very funny person you know that. You said MVPs are the best player at their position now you say that most.... where does the most come from? You spoke holistically across the board.

Why do I think that CP3 is a better player than Rose?

CP3 is a better floor general, distributor, shooter, has a better eye for the floor, has the unique ability to read defenses unlike any other PG currently in the NBA, has a higher BB IQ and though Rose has vastly improved defensively he still isn't as good a defender/overall defensive player as Chris Paul.

Rose is a better volume scorer, more aggressive, athletic, and finisher at the rim but as for what I want from a PG and what I use to value a PG Chris Paul trumps him in the overall package.

Now you are obviously going to disagree with everything I said because you think Rose is better in all those aspects I just mentioned.

Hawkeye15
06-14-2011, 12:53 PM
Fellas, we are done with the #1 poll and discussion. Please move on to the #2 PG, regardless of how you feel about the last poll that was a Paul runaway

D-Block21-Chito
06-14-2011, 12:55 PM
Bulls fans,

Why even argue? Make your pick and move on... These guys are knuckleheads

TheRunKiller
06-14-2011, 12:56 PM
WOW! Lets see Derrick Rose avg close to 10 asissts per game, what a great PG he can score!!! So I guess centers who score and dont rebound are the best centers in the league!!

he averaged 8 apg this season that's good enough.his team still won 62 games a last season. why does he need to average 10? because williams did in NJ? he went no where

Cool007
06-14-2011, 12:56 PM
WOW! Lets see Derrick Rose avg close to 10 asissts per game, what a great PG he can score!!! So I guess centers who score and dont rebound are the best centers in the league!!

What a terrible response.

Then in a sense Dirk is not a PF, Amare wasn't as well, or how about Bosh not PF either.

What a great PF who can't rebound (just coz they don't average 10rpg)???

You don't have to average 10apg to be considered as best PG.

People are too much into "Traditional" stuff. LeBron is not your "Traditional" SF (Durant is) but he is the Best player and best SF in the NBA. D-Wade is not your "Traditional" SG (Ray Allen is), but he is still the top-3 best player in the NBA and arguably the best SG in the NBA.

Hope you guys get it.

Hawkeye15
06-14-2011, 12:59 PM
What a terrible response.

Then in a sense Dirk is not a PF, Amare wasn't as well, or how about Bosh not PF either.

What a great PF who can't rebound (just coz they don't average 10rpg)???

You don't have to average 10apg to be considered as best PG.

People are too much into "Traditional" stuff. LeBron is not your "Traditional" SF (Durant is) but he is the Best player and best SF in the NBA. D-Wade is not your "Traditional" SG (Ray Allen is), but he is still the top-3 best player in the NBA and arguably the best SG in the NBA.

Hope you guys get it.

I very much agree with you here.

kozelkid
06-14-2011, 12:59 PM
Gotta be Rose here. Best PER, best win shares out of all pg's remaining. And frankly, I think, by next season, if Paul is back to himself and Rose continues to improve his game the way he has, it will be between them two for the number one spot.

Sadds The Gr8
06-14-2011, 01:00 PM
I'm going with Rose, because of Williams was so bad in the 2nd half of the season with the Nets. I think Williams the better player, but as of right now, Rose is better.

Hawkeye15
06-14-2011, 01:01 PM
Gotta be Rose here. Best PER, best win shares out of all pg's remaining. And frankly, I think, by next season, if Paul is back to himself and Rose continues to improve his game the way he has, it will be between them two for the number one spot.

yeah, Rose really closed the gap this season. It will be an interesting comparison soon enough I would guess.

ManningToTyree
06-14-2011, 01:06 PM
toss up. went Rose

jp611
06-14-2011, 01:08 PM
So you're only a good PG if you average 10 APG, in DoMeFavors thinking that means that there are only 3 good PG's in the NBA and Chris Paul isnt one of them cuz he only averaged 9.8

NBA-GMaster
06-14-2011, 01:23 PM
Drose.. Uhh.. cuz he's the MVP!!
Dwill for no.3 and Westbrook for no.4

greg_ory_2005
06-14-2011, 01:27 PM
Always been a fan of DW, so gotta pick him here.

Chacarron
06-14-2011, 01:43 PM
Axl Rose.

Chronz
06-14-2011, 01:55 PM
This.

D.Will is HUGELY overrated by most (for those who have him at top 2).

He never had PER higher than Rose and CP3.

I know PER is not the best way to do the comparison but it does account a lot of stuff. Also, he has been in the league for how many years now and still Rose has had better PER than D.Will.

One thing about his stats is that he always has an injury stretch (usually to start the year but he finished with an injury this year), his PER during the second half of the season throughout his career equals Rose. He just never puts in a fully healthy season.

Then again I suppose you could do that for Rose and CP3 during their injury free periods and get the same result.

justinnum1
06-14-2011, 01:58 PM
williams

Chronz
06-14-2011, 01:59 PM
Swash is the biggest Rose hater around, don't even bother arguing with him

O RLY, I thought I owned that title. Whos 2nd, 3rd, 4th on the list?

Chronz
06-14-2011, 02:06 PM
I don't really care what your arguments are. Derrick Rose is the best point guard in the league in my opinion. If you're the league MVP then you must be the best at your own position. Look if you think CP3 is the better point guard then fine, I can careless. I'm just stating my opinion. All of you don't need to reply to everything I post. Nothing is going to change my mind.

Why the hell would you ask me that question when you answered it yourself.

How am I wrong when you agreed that those players were the best at their position when they won MVP.

LMFAO, you dont care about other peoples argument then of course your going to stick to your flawed opinion. The reason your wrong is because you refused to acknowledge the facts about your flawed stance. MVP does NOT = Best @ Position, as proven by the comparisons swash listed. Those guys were MVP's yet they werent even close to being the best at their position.

So how exactly do you have a point? From this point forward your credibility on the subject of Rose has been shot unless you admit the follies of your ways

theheatles
06-14-2011, 02:06 PM
tough for me...i got
1. paul
2a. deron
2b. rose

Chronz
06-14-2011, 02:08 PM
Bulls fans,

Why even argue? Make your pick and move on... These guys are knuckleheads

Objective NBA fans,

Why even argue? Make your pick and ignore the homers

AntiG
06-14-2011, 02:09 PM
Deron.

C_A_S_H
06-14-2011, 02:14 PM
I Say DWill

dnewguy
06-14-2011, 02:19 PM
D-Will, Rose is not spectacular at anything other than getting buckets.

SteBO
06-14-2011, 02:32 PM
Deron Williams was down 15 votes a while ago, and he's closed the gap to 4 now. :laugh2:

pd1dish
06-14-2011, 02:32 PM
D-Will, Rose is not spectacular at anything other than getting buckets.

his 7.7 assists per game while also scoring 25 PPG is something no other PG in the NBA did. and he did it with a mediocre, at best, scoring cast around him. im not saying hes the best PG in the league, but to say hes not good at anything but scoring is ludicrous. 7.7 APG is a lot when Boozer and Deng are the #2 and 3 scoring options.

CP3 is the best PG in the league, but Rose has surpassed Deron Williams at this point.

papipapsmanny
06-14-2011, 02:38 PM
William than rose

blacknell
06-14-2011, 02:39 PM
Derrick rose is the best hands down

JordansBulls
06-14-2011, 02:42 PM
Highest Seed Deron got with Boozer was a 4 seed and this when Boozer was the only allstar on the team. Imagine the Boozer from Utah on the Bulls? Scary to think about.

Deron's highest ranking for MVP was 9th. Let's think about that for a second. He hasnt gone as far as Rose in the playoffs, hasn't led his team to as good a record or seed, has never started in the allstar game either.

TheRunKiller
06-14-2011, 02:46 PM
williams

lol at your sig...did you see what lebron did in the fourth qtr? nice try man

Chronz
06-14-2011, 02:51 PM
Highest Seed Deron got with Boozer was a 4 seed and this when Boozer was the only allstar on the team. Imagine the Boozer from Utah on the Bulls? Scary to think about.
All this tells me is Deron gets more out of Boozer. Remember when you tried to hold Boozer improving AGAINST LeBron? Well you cant have it both ways, Rose makes his teammates worse compared to Deron so lets not spin this the wrong way.


Deron's highest ranking for MVP was 9th. Let's think about that for a second. He hasnt gone as far as Rose in the playoffs, hasn't led his team to as good a record or seed, has never started in the allstar game either.

Yea but when you focus on their games and not the hype behind it, the comparison becomes real.

tcav701
06-14-2011, 02:51 PM
It's not to late this year but can we make a rule that you arent allowed to vote for a player of the team you root for?

This would eliminate homer votes and give an idea of who is the best objectively.

ImThatDude
06-14-2011, 02:56 PM
This is looking like typical Chicago-style voting :laugh:

Hustlenomics
06-14-2011, 02:57 PM
D-Will

jp611
06-14-2011, 02:58 PM
Lol rose should be killing Williams in this poll but the hate continues

TheRunKiller
06-14-2011, 02:59 PM
Lol rose should be killing Williams in this poll but the hate continues

lol they don't even like williams they just hate rose

Jets012
06-14-2011, 03:00 PM
DWill should have been number 1 in my opinion. He was injured throughout the year and i still believe he had a great year. He can set up players better than anyone else on this list and he is a better scorer than Paul.

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 03:06 PM
Williams made it to the Western Conference Finals going through hard teams, when Chicago went through Pacers, and Hawks. Those arent that great of teams to have to go through. Plus Williams made Boozer look a lot better and produce offense a lot better than Rose. Boozers defense was exposed because of his inability to score that well. Deron and Boozer pick and roll was great offense. With Rose, Boozer had to create for himself more. Deron is much better, at the overall game. Rose is more explosive and can score better but Deron still brings more of an offense he gets his teamates involved which also creates offense.

Sadds The Gr8
06-14-2011, 03:08 PM
DWill should have been number 1 in my opinion. He was injured throughout the year and i still believe he had a great year. He can set up players better than anyone else on this list and he is a better scorer than Paul.

he didn't have a great year at all. look at his stats in the 2nd half with the Nets. Pretty bad for his standards. and he's not a better scorer than Paul. they're either even, or paul gets the slight edge.

rds1488
06-14-2011, 03:10 PM
guess whose going to start for the US Olympic team at pg next year? And DWILL or CP3 are not the answers. YOU guys are all fools

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 03:12 PM
he didn't have a great year at all. look at his stats in the 2nd half with the Nets. Pretty bad for his standards. and he's not a better scorer than Paul. they're either even, or paul gets the slight edge.

He only played 12 games, he had an injured shooting hand and had 2 game winners for the Nets in 12 games. Also he was passing like crazy I think he broke a record for most assists in first 5 games with a team. He didnt even have many practices aswell.

Tarheels23
06-14-2011, 03:14 PM
Highest Seed Deron got with Boozer was a 4 seed and this when Boozer was the only allstar on the team. Imagine the Boozer from Utah on the Bulls? Scary to think about.

Deron's highest ranking for MVP was 9th. Let's think about that for a second. He hasnt gone as far as Rose in the playoffs, hasn't led his team to as good a record or seed, has never started in the allstar game either.

Why do you think the Boozer on Utah was so much better than the Boozer on Chicago?

Jets012
06-14-2011, 03:14 PM
he didn't have a great year at all. look at his stats in the 2nd half with the Nets. Pretty bad for his standards. and he's not a better scorer than Paul. they're either even, or paul gets the slight edge.


Well even with the wrist injury he averaged 13 assists for the Nets and led the Nets to a winning record when he started. The wrist did effect his shooting percentage and scoring ability, but he was still able to turn players like Kris Humphries into studs.

SteBO
06-14-2011, 03:15 PM
D-Will has closed the gap to 1 vote :laugh2:

JordansBulls
06-14-2011, 03:15 PM
All this tells me is Deron gets more out of Boozer. Remember when you tried to hold Boozer improving AGAINST LeBron? Well you cant have it both ways, Rose makes his teammates worse compared to Deron so lets not spin this the wrong way.


Yea but when you focus on their games and not the hype behind it, the comparison becomes real.

How so? Boozer made the allstar team before Deron. It was Boozer who won the series against the Rockets not Deron.

JordansBulls
06-14-2011, 03:16 PM
Why do you think the Boozer on Utah was so much better than the Boozer on Chicago?

Because he was the only allstar on the team. He made the allstar team in 2007 and 2008. Deron didn't make it until 2010 for the first time.

Mile High Champ
06-14-2011, 03:17 PM
This is a close one, keep the votes coming.

rds1488
06-14-2011, 03:18 PM
boozer was beyond soft get his layups(which should have been dunks) blocked by scrubs like tyler hans and bosh he had no leaping ability which he blames on his turf toe.

More-Than-Most
06-14-2011, 03:20 PM
cp3
williams
rose
westbrook
Nash


This should be the top 5 and in that order

rds1488
06-14-2011, 03:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4MHoe66g0Y ... can dwill yet any pg besides rose do that in the nba?

sports4life1989
06-14-2011, 03:20 PM
This thread is confusing. I thought it was who was better "right now"?? Yet everyone keeps bringing up the past of what happened. But, correct me if I'm worng I know it's not DWill's fault that he had a down injury year, but doesn't that still mean he had a bad year and DRose had a great year. So "right now" DRose is the better player because he played better?

jmoney85
06-14-2011, 03:21 PM
this poll would have been a d-will blowout but every knick fan will vote for rose because dwill is a net lol

Tarheels23
06-14-2011, 03:21 PM
Because he was the only allstar on the team. He made the allstar team in 2007 and 2008. Deron didn't make it until 2010 for the first time.

Incorrect, it is because Williams runs a terrific pick n roll game and make his post players better than they really are. Look what Paul Millsap did when Boozer was hurt.


And to the all star point.... Yao Ming was the starting Center this year

rds1488
06-14-2011, 03:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K1In6gkLzg

SpeeMN
06-14-2011, 03:22 PM
Dwill can take over a game just like rose, But Dwill is a bigger body and has more experience. Both are champions. I went with Dwill.

sports4life1989
06-14-2011, 03:24 PM
Dwill can take over a game just like rose, But Dwill is a bigger body and has more experience. Both are champions. I went with Dwill.

Doubt it'd be just like Rose. Williams isn't as explosive.

rds1488
06-14-2011, 03:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u4WbeavZQo

sports4life1989
06-14-2011, 03:25 PM
On topic though this "right now" i believe the list should go as follows

1) Paul
2) Rose
3) Williams

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 03:29 PM
this poll would have been a d-will blowout but every knick fan will vote for rose because dwill is a net lol

doubt they like Bulls much better

jmoney85
06-14-2011, 03:33 PM
doubt they like Bulls much better

almost every knick fan that has posted in this thread said rose so yea they hate the nets more than the bulls

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 03:35 PM
almost every knick fan that has posted in this thread said rose so yea they hate the nets more than the bulls

Yeah Billups should be 2nd best pg

smiddy012
06-14-2011, 03:38 PM
CP3>DRose>DWill

It really is that simple at this point in time.

Chronz
06-14-2011, 03:40 PM
How so? Boozer made the allstar team before Deron.
I never said he was the better player from day 1, I said Deron gets more out of Boozer than Rose does. You dont have to be an all-star to know how to get the ball in the right spots and be an effective distributor. Just ask Marc Jackson.


It was Boozer who won the series against the Rockets not Deron.

LOL you act as if they didnt play the Rockets twice, Boozer won them the matchup vs Yao and totally owned him, but he was clamped down the very next year by Hayes.

Rivera
06-14-2011, 03:50 PM
omg bulls fans really? really? you turned this thread to **** so what if rose didnt win the #1 PG its no disrespect to be called #2 at your postion when your only in your 3rd year in the league and rose won MVP but couldnt get the #1 vote because Chris Paul is just that good and could go down as an all time great

if you voted for rose #1 your a homer if you voted rose #2 your a hater :facepalm:

get over yourselves and if you wanted rose #1 where were you yesterday to vote for rose #1?

Bruno
06-14-2011, 03:59 PM
D-Will has to prove that he can compete and produce in New Jersey on that same level that he did in Utah. That remains to be seen (although I have no doubt that he will, baring injury).

Despite an inefficient playoffs (TS% under .500), I went with the MVP at the #2 spot. Although inefficient during the playoffs- he posted regular season numbers in 2011 that Deron William is yet to post.

This one is close, I'm glad to see that the poll is competitive.

jp611
06-14-2011, 04:01 PM
omg bulls fans really? really? you turned this thread to **** so what if rose didnt win the #1 PG its no disrespect to be called #2 at your postion when your only in your 3rd year in the league and rose won MVP but couldnt get the #1 vote because Chris Paul is just that good and could go down as an all time great

if you voted for rose #1 your a homer if you voted rose #2 your a hater :facepalm:

get over yourselves and if you wanted rose #1 where were you yesterday to vote for rose #1?

Nothing wrong with Rose being number 2, but number 3 would just be a joke

CityofTreez
06-14-2011, 04:06 PM
Deron Williams by a Landslide.

Any of you see Derrick Rose in the playoff against the HEAT?

He was as inefficient as you can be for a PG, on his biggest Stage!

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 04:09 PM
Had Rose played in the 90s he wouldnt have come close to MVP, he wouldnt have kept driving into the paint on those players. He would have got hacked like crazy. But with the NBA players today its basically against the rules to foul a player coming into your paint.

Hustlenomics
06-14-2011, 04:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4MHoe66g0Y ... can dwill yet any pg besides rose do that in the nba?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svsHlH-IvbY
i guess Nate's a top point guard too

hugepatsfan
06-14-2011, 04:13 PM
I got D-Will here, but I can see a reasonable argument for Rose. Today I say Deron is better, but Rose should be better in next year's poll IMO.

MJ-BULLS
06-14-2011, 04:13 PM
This is easily rose. He is by far the most explosive dominant point guard. Jus ask mr Williams.

Rivera
06-14-2011, 04:14 PM
Nothing wrong with Rose being number 2, but number 3 would just be a joke

no it wouldnt because deron williams is just as all worldy as chris paul

the jazz were in the playoffs before deron got traded when he got traded they did a straight nose dive and he joined a team that was already what? 10 15 games back from 8th? and he made them look respectable

like seriously its always been cp3-dwill as far as the PG position went for years and rose just joined that stratusphere this year

its not a joke to vote deron williams #2 ahead of rose hes that good just get over yourself

and no im not hating on rose because if you want to click on the poll i voted for rose

and real talk if i chose a PG to run my team i would take D-Will all day theres nothing d rose can do better than d will execpt get to the basket and jump higher and faster thats it

but i actually tried to answer the OPs question

sports4life1989
06-14-2011, 04:15 PM
Deron Williams by a Landslide.

Any of you see Derrick Rose in the playoff against the HEAT?

He was as inefficient as you can be for a PG, on his biggest Stage!

Did you watch the team? Rose had no choice but to force shots on a Heat team that played great defense on him. The Heat basically made the point to stop Rose and have the team try to beat them. No fault to Rose that noone stepped up and forced him to do everything.

DLeeicious
06-14-2011, 04:15 PM
Had Rose played in the 90s he wouldnt have come close to MVP, he wouldnt have kept driving into the paint on those players. He would have got hacked like crazy. But with the NBA players today its basically against the rules to foul a player coming into your paint.

You're absolutely right. Back in the 90's you were allowed to foul players coming into your paint. It wasn't until Rose entered the league that they made it against the rules to foul a player coming into your paint. I miss the good old days where you could legally foul players.

wait what?

jp611
06-14-2011, 04:15 PM
Deron Williams by a Landslide.

Any of you see Derrick Rose in the playoff against the HEAT?

He was as inefficient as you can be for a PG, on his biggest Stage!

Anyone see Deron Williams in the playoffs at all? No thats because he didnt make them, and he wouldnt have made them with the Jazz either, so don't even go there

Also if I were to say that about Lebron's bad series and that he doesnt deserve to be the best SF than I'd get laughed at and called a homer, 5 games is a small sample size

Rivera
06-14-2011, 04:17 PM
Anyone see Deron Williams in the playoffs at all? No thats because he didnt make them, and he wouldnt have made them with the Jazz either, so don't even go there

Also if I were to say that about Lebron's bad series and that he doesnt deserve to be the best SF than I'd get laughed at and called a homer, 5 games is a small sample size

you do realize the jazz were a 7 seed before they traded deron right???

and last time i checked 7 seed makes the playoffs and that deron williams has led the jazz to the playoffs basically every year of his career right?

come jpro your better than that but maybe not :facepalm:

Bruno
06-14-2011, 04:17 PM
He was as inefficient as you can be for a PG, on his biggest Stage!

It's true. I think he averaged less than one point per FGA for the series. But D-Will, didn't even play in the playoffs this year. I don't think he would have made it with the Jazz had he stayed either. That has to count against him here.

DLeeicious
06-14-2011, 04:18 PM
For the poll I got:

CP3
DR1
Williams
Westbrook

then drop off. I also think Williams and Westbrook are incredibly close partly because I am expecting big things from Westbrook and also partly because I have been disappointed in D Will of recent.

MJ-BULLS
06-14-2011, 04:19 PM
Deron Williams by a Landslide.

Any of you see Derrick Rose in the playoff against the HEAT?

He was as inefficient as you can be for a PG, on his biggest Stage!

Sure when he was the main scoring option against if not the top 2 defensive perimeter players in the NBA in lebron and wade. Battled a ****ed up ankle and had a stomach ulcer.

I'd say he did a great since he still managed to pile up some points while he was getting doubled out of his mind.

jp611
06-14-2011, 04:20 PM
Rivera, that Jazz team was on a landslide before they traded Williams, I'm sure some of it had to do with his injury, but they were falling apart fast, I think they were up as a 2 or 3 seed at one point and started to go downhill

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 04:20 PM
Anyone see Deron Williams in the playoffs at all? No thats because he didnt make them, and he wouldnt have made them with the Jazz either, so don't even go there

Also if I were to say that about Lebron's bad series and that he doesnt deserve to be the best SF than I'd get laughed at and called a homer, 5 games is a small sample size

Its harder in the West than the East to make the playoffs, plus Jazz kept giving away all of Jazz players like Boozer, Brewer, Korver that they refused to pay or traded. Rose before this year barley made the playoffs in 09-10. Jazz were looking a lot better the first half of the year untill Deron got injured wrist and Sloan left.

JordansBulls
06-14-2011, 04:21 PM
Deron Williams by a Landslide.

Any of you see Derrick Rose in the playoff against the HEAT?

He was as inefficient as you can be for a PG, on his biggest Stage!

Deron didn't even make the playoffs despite having a guy who produced more than Boozer this year in Al Jefferson and then Brook Lopez

jp611
06-14-2011, 04:22 PM
Well than I'll use the same logic that small sample size determines a players worth

Lebron James isnt a top 10 player than... sound fair?

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 04:23 PM
Deron didn't even make the playoffs despite having a guy who produced more than Boozer this year in Al Jefferson and then Brook Lopez

Deron played 12 games with the Nets with a injured Wrist. How could he make the playoffs with the Jazz he was already gone in febuary? All Star Rose last year nearly didnt make the playoffs.

Bruno
06-14-2011, 04:26 PM
Well than I'll use the same logic that small sample size determines a players worth

Lebron James isnt a top 10 player than... sound fair?

I know you're being sarcastic, but LBJ led this years playoffs in total WS, and posted a PER of 23.7 for the playoffs. Those numbers would probably put him in the top 5 for the playoffs, as a whole.

If you're referring to his mediocre finals, you can't compare that stint to what Rose did- as Rose played in three playoff series this post-season.

sixer04fan
06-14-2011, 04:27 PM
Objective NBA fans,

Why even argue? Make your pick and ignore the homers

Haha

jp611
06-14-2011, 04:28 PM
I know you're being sarcastic, but LBJ led this years playoffs in total WS, and posted a PER of 23.7 for the playoffs. Those numbers would probably put him in the top 5 for the playoffs, as a whole.

If you're referring to his mediocre finals, you can't compare that stint to what Rose did- as Rose played in three playoff series this post-season.

Doesnt matter, I'm only going to pick and choose the stats I want to use, and I'll use his Finals stats, that means he's not a top 10 player

Rivera
06-14-2011, 04:28 PM
Rivera, that Jazz team was on a landslide before they traded Williams, I'm sure some of it had to do with his injury, but they were falling apart fast, I think they were up as a 2 or 3 seed at one point and started to go downhill

but they were still in the playoffs

in your opinion the jazz wouldnt have made the playoffs

in my opinion the jazz would have

so who is right? neither of us

i dont know why you want to debate a moot point....

you cant blame deron for not making the playoffs this year when he had his team on course to make the playoffs when he got traded and then got traded to a team already 10-15 games back thats just stupid

DLeeicious
06-14-2011, 04:28 PM
Its harder in the West than the East to make the playoffs, plus Jazz kept giving away all of Jazz players like Boozer, Brewer, Korver that they refused to pay or traded. Rose before this year barley made the playoffs in 09-10. Jazz were looking a lot better the first half of the year untill Deron got injured wrist and Sloan left.

Seems like you're trying hard to convince yourself here. Pulling out some fantastically selective information here.

Rivera
06-14-2011, 04:30 PM
Doesnt matter, I'm only going to pick and choose the stats I want to use, and I'll use his Finals stats, that means he's not a top 10 player

your making bulls fans look way worse than heat fans just by your last few statements :pity:

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 04:30 PM
Seems like you're trying hard to convince yourself here. Pulling out some fantastically selective information here.

Im trying to convince the people who think Rose is better, I already know Deron is better than Chris Paul and D.Rose.

Bruno
06-14-2011, 04:37 PM
Im trying to convince the people who think Rose is better, I already know Deron is better than Chris Paul and D.Rose.

A matter of knowing opposed to thinking, or feeling inclined to believe? What makes you so certain?

Bruno
06-14-2011, 04:38 PM
Doesnt matter, I'm only going to pick and choose the stats I want to use, and I'll use his Finals stats, that means he's not a top 10 player

Why doesn't it matter?

DLeeicious
06-14-2011, 04:38 PM
Im trying to convince the people who think Rose is better, I already know Deron is better than Chris Paul and D.Rose.

Name some things Deron is better at than Chris Paul please. Obviously if he is better overall there have to be individual items he is better than him at as well. What are some of those?

dhopisthename
06-14-2011, 04:42 PM
but they were still in the playoffs

in your opinion the jazz wouldnt have made the playoffs

in my opinion the jazz would have

so who is right? neither of us

i dont know why you want to debate a moot point....

you cant blame deron for not making the playoffs this year when he had his team on course to make the playoffs when he got traded and then got traded to a team already 10-15 games back thats just stupid

the jazz would not have made the playoffs even if they hadn't traded dwill

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 04:45 PM
Name some things Deron is better at than Chris Paul please. Obviously if he is better overall there have to be individual items he is better than him at as well. What are some of those?

What isnt he better than Chris Paul at?
Its god given talent you have to respect it.
Deron holds down the best pg in the NBA absolutely.

Turtle55
06-14-2011, 04:47 PM
It's the Rose haters vs the Rose fans with neutral unbiased fans caught in the cross hairs. With this debate calm rational logic was never an option. The haters will try as long as they have the choice to vote for people ahead of him and claim he only got chosen because of all the Bulls fans (btw, we weren't in the MVP voting) and the fans will say he's better than anyone in the league no matter who you put him against.

I voted Rose second (and no I didn't vote for him for first) because I think there's one PG in the league that I honestly think gives your team a better chance of winning than Rose and that guy's Chris Paul.

jtsunami
06-14-2011, 04:48 PM
It would quite the shame if Deron won this. Whether I agree or not, I can see how Chris Paul would be number 1 (even in a landslide).

But after the past years Deron and Rose have had, if you put Deron over Rose you are either living in the past or are a Rose hater.

Rose wins in FG%, 3PT%, FT%, TRB%, TOV%, USG%, WS, PER, WS/48, DWS, OWS, Minutes, Games played, and DOMINATED head-to-head matchups.

Deron is a good player, but he had a down year. And this voting needs to be taken by the years they just had. Otherwise I could vote for Kobe having a better year than Wade. And Boozer over Kevin Love.

Just because they were better doesn't mean they are now.

dhopisthename
06-14-2011, 04:51 PM
What isnt he better than Chris Paul at?
Its god given talent you have to respect it.
Deron holds down the best pg in the NBA absolutely.

lol, paul is a better shooter, passer, doesn't turn the ball over nearly as often, isn't as big a crybaby, and their defense is equal if paul isn't better. really the only thing deron has on paul is health and even then deron wasn't very healthy last year.

DLeeicious
06-14-2011, 04:52 PM
What isnt he better than Chris Paul at?
Its god given talent you have to respect it.
Deron holds down the best pg in the NBA absolutely.

notsureifserious but I'll bite. I would literally take Chris Paul's game in every single aspect of basketball. This includes but is not limited to: Defense, shooting, passing, rebounding, court vision, end of game situations, literally any other positive thing a point guard can do on the court I will take Chris Paul.

sports4life1989
06-14-2011, 04:53 PM
It would quite the shame if Deron won this. Whether I agree or not, I can see how Chris Paul would be number 1 (even in a landslide).

But after the past years Deron and Rose have had, if you put Deron over Rose you are either living in the past or are a Rose hater.

Rose wins in FG%, 3PT%, FT%, TRB%, TOV%, USG%, WS, PER, WS/48, DWS, OWS, Minutes, Games played, and DOMINATED head-to-head matchups.

Deron is a good player, but he had a down year. And this voting needs to be taken by the years they just had. Otherwise I could vote for Kobe having a better year than Wade. And Boozer over Kevin Love.

Just because they were better doesn't mean they are now.

:nod:

ManRam
06-14-2011, 04:57 PM
I'm really getting frustrated with people saying that if you don't vote for Rose, you hate him. A lot of us don't hate him, we just are reacting to some crazy claims (like CP3 does nothing better than Rose, and stupid **** like that).

Jesus. It's called having an opinion and being objective. Sure, there are a few people who wouldn't vote Rose in their top 5 because they hate him, but calling everyone who disagrees with you a hater is childish. Rose isn't God. Deron Williams isn't Gerry McNamara. I voted for Rose, but it's not crazy to think someone as amazing as Deron Williams is better than Rose. He does a lot of things Rose doesn't do, and Rose does a lot of things Deron doesn't do. It's preference. Yes, Rose won the MVP. Yes, it's also obvious he wasn't the best player in the NBA. MVP is a team award, and his team was the most ripe to produce an MVP player amongst the top candidates.

Not everyone that votes Deron here is a "hater"; that's a cop out when you've ran out of real arguments. Not everyone here voting for Rose is a "homer" either.

There's not a set formula on determining how good a player is, if there was, there wouldn't be sites like these.

Opinions are OK, even if you disagree vehemently. Attack their points, don't just settle for stupid insults.

Cool007
06-14-2011, 04:59 PM
It would quite the shame if Deron won this. Whether I agree or not, I can see how Chris Paul would be number 1 (even in a landslide).

But after the past years Deron and Rose have had, if you put Deron over Rose you are either living in the past or are a Rose hater.

Rose wins in FG%, 3PT%, FT%, TRB%, TOV%, USG%, WS, PER, WS/48, DWS, OWS, Minutes, Games played, and DOMINATED head-to-head matchups.

Deron is a good player, but he had a down year. And this voting needs to be taken by the years they just had. Otherwise I could vote for Kobe having a better year than Wade. And Boozer over Kevin Love.

Just because they were better doesn't mean they are now.


This x100000.

People were calling Rose getting overrated, I see it even worse with Deron Williams. D-Will is HUGELY overrated if he is considered #1 or #2 best PG in the NBA based on past year.

jtsunami
06-14-2011, 04:59 PM
It's hating when the voting is as close as it is.

NYKnicksAllDay
06-14-2011, 05:00 PM
D-Will. There may be an argument for Rose as a better player, but not the better point guard. If that makes sense.

DLeeicious
06-14-2011, 05:00 PM
I'm really getting frustrated with people saying that if you don't vote for Rose, you hate him. A lot of us don't hate him, we just are reacting to some crazy claims (like CP3 does nothing better than Rose, and stupid **** like that).

Jesus. It's called having an opinion and being objective. Sure, there are a few people who wouldn't vote Rose in their top 5 because they hate him, but calling everyone who disagrees with you a hater is childish. Rose isn't God. Deron Williams isn't Gerry McNamara. I voted for Rose, but it's not crazy to think someone as amazing as Deron Williams is better than Rose. He does a lot of things Rose doesn't do, and Rose does a lot of things Deron doesn't do. It's preference. Yes, Rose won the MVP. Yes, it's also obvious he wasn't the best player in the NBA. MVP is a team award, and his team was the most ripe to produce an MVP player amongst the top candidates.

Not everyone that votes Deron here is a "hater"; that's a cop out when you've ran out of real arguments. Not everyone here voting for Rose is a "homer" either.

There's not a set formula on determining how good a player is, if there was, there wouldn't be sites like these.

Opinions are OK, even if you disagree vehemently. Attack their points, don't just settle for stupid insults.

You're a "fans who call people rose haters" hater!

NYtilIdie
06-14-2011, 05:01 PM
Ahhh, CP3 ahead of Rose just like it should be :)

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-14-2011, 05:01 PM
Im gonna go with Rose...D-Will slightly behind him.

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 05:02 PM
notsureifserious but I'll bite. I would literally take Chris Paul's game in every single aspect of basketball. This includes but is not limited to: Defense, shooting, passing, rebounding, court vision, end of game situations, literally any other positive thing a point guard can do on the court I will take Chris Paul.

Chris Paul is soo overated, just because of his name. Im just saying Deron is the best pg in the NBA, Deron was better in college and in the NBA but now that he is a Net its all hate. Deron by himself went to the WCF by himself, Boozer did nothing same with AK. They did nothing to take them there, Deron carried that team. Atleast Derrick Rose this year had a deeper team same with Chris Paul when he went to WCF.

ManRam
06-14-2011, 05:02 PM
You're a "fans who call people rose haters" hater!

I am. I'm a hater-user hater.

9 times out of 10 it's nothing more than a cop out when you can't keep disproving what the other person is saying.

Attack people's points, don't just call them a "hater". A three year old can argue that intelligently.

cubbybear2290
06-14-2011, 05:04 PM
D-Rose in my mind, is not the best POINT GUARD in the League, but the best BASKETBALL PLAYER at the Point Guard Position w/ that being said there is no sport called point guard and Rose very well could have been #1, though I have no gripes w/ CP3 being the #1 POINT GUARD....But for anyone to really even debate that Rose isn't top 2 at PG in the League is kind of beyond me, but to each his own. My vote goes to Rose.

sports4life1989
06-14-2011, 05:04 PM
It's hating when the voting is as close as it is.

I believe people are living in the past and haven't realized the thread is a "right now" thread.

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 05:05 PM
Deron is a better post player than both Paul and Rose.

sports4life1989
06-14-2011, 05:07 PM
Deron is a better post player than both Paul and Rose.

And Rose is a better finisher at the rim than Williams. Whats your point?

ManRam
06-14-2011, 05:07 PM
Chris Paul is soo overated, just because of his name. Im just saying Deron is the best pg in the NBA, Deron was better in college and in the NBA but now that he is a Net its all hate. Deron by himself went to the WCF by himself, Boozer did nothing same with AK. They did nothing to take them there, Deron carried that team. Atleast Derrick Rose this year had a deeper team same with Chris Paul when he went to WCF.

How has Deron been better in the NBA? Just because one year his TEAM made it to the WCF?

Chris Paul has made more all-star games, more all-NBA teams, he shoots better from the field for his career, he shoot better from three for his career, he averages more assists, rebounds, steals, fewer TOS, more points etc. for his career. His PER is 25.2 compared to Williams' 19.0. He has 76.4 win shares to Deron's 47.3. He nearly doubles him in WS/48.

Basketball-reference's elo rating has him already as the 35 best player ever. Deron is close to 100.

Deron has never been better than Paul. He's been on better teams and may have had more team success, but that doesn't make him a better player.


And now your argument is that he's a better because he's a better post player? :laugh: That's 1/50th of the game...if that.

Hawkeye15
06-14-2011, 05:08 PM
It would quite the shame if Deron won this. Whether I agree or not, I can see how Chris Paul would be number 1 (even in a landslide).

But after the past years Deron and Rose have had, if you put Deron over Rose you are either living in the past or are a Rose hater.

Rose wins in FG%, 3PT%, FT%, TRB%, TOV%, USG%, WS, PER, WS/48, DWS, OWS, Minutes, Games played, and DOMINATED head-to-head matchups.

Deron is a good player, but he had a down year. And this voting needs to be taken by the years they just had. Otherwise I could vote for Kobe having a better year than Wade. And Boozer over Kevin Love.

Just because they were better doesn't mean they are now.

same reason Kobe made first team all defense :hide:

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 05:09 PM
How has Deron been better in the NBA? Just because one year his TEAM made it to the WCF?

Chris Paul has made more all-star games, more all-NBA games, he shoots better from the field for his career, he shoot better from three for his career, he averages more assists, rebounds, steals, fewer TOS, more points etc. for his career. His PER is 25.2 compared to Williams' 19.0. He has 76.4 win shares to Deron's 47.3. He nearly doubles him in WS/48.

Basketball-reference's elo rating has him already as the 35 best player ever. Deron is close to 100.

Deron has never been better than Paul. He's been on better teams and may have had more team success, but that doesn't make him a better player.


And now your argument is that he's a better because he's a better post player? :laugh: That's 1/50th of the game...if that.

Yeah but those are just numbers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1o3qq2p79Q

Rivera
06-14-2011, 05:10 PM
You're a "fans who call people rose haters" hater!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

thank you bulls fans really....thank you :laugh2:

DLeeicious
06-14-2011, 05:11 PM
Chris Paul is soo overated, just because of his name. Im just saying Deron is the best pg in the NBA, Deron was better in college and in the NBA but now that he is a Net its all hate. Deron by himself went to the WCF by himself, Boozer did nothing same with AK. They did nothing to take them there, Deron carried that team. Atleast Derrick Rose this year had a deeper team same with Chris Paul when he went to WCF.

I hear ya. People like to crown Chris Paul better than Deron 100% because of his name and that he is superior in every single statistic but mostly because of that damn name!

Hawkeye15
06-14-2011, 05:12 PM
Yeah but those are just numbers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1o3qq2p79Q

The Jazz fans used to talk in circles with the Deron/Paul debate as well man. Welcome to the party

rds1488
06-14-2011, 05:14 PM
kobe said that LAST YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ManRam
06-14-2011, 05:14 PM
Yeah but those are just numbers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1o3qq2p79Q

Oh! Wow. Kobe said so so it must be true.

Great argument.

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 05:15 PM
The Jazz fans used to talk in circles with the Deron/Paul debate as well man. Welcome to the party

Well, they have their opinion but most of the analysts and players the people who are familar with the game and lace up their shoes every night agree that Deron is the best.

ManRam
06-14-2011, 05:16 PM
Well, they have their opinion but most of the analysts and players the people who are familar with the game and lace up their shoes every night agree that Deron is the best.

Most?

You named one player who said so, after Deron beat his team, a year ago...

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 05:19 PM
Most?

You named one player who said so, after Deron beat his team, a year ago...

I mean if you want to keep looking at stats, im not saying your wrong because everyone has their opinions. But in your case David Lee last year was better than Garnett. Monte is a top 10 player because he scores more points and has more steals.
I dont have to be given a stat lesson, I watch the game I know what the players say and if you watch Deron play you will see what im talking about.

ManRam
06-14-2011, 05:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL7C89oceQQ

There's your proof DoMeFavors! Should have used that earlier and he would have won the last vote.

chicago lulz
06-14-2011, 05:21 PM
part of me is hesitant to vote for Rose here. Williams has been so good so long, and had one season of injuries and turmoil. But the way Rose played this season, and the rate of improvement he has made, just make me believe that he will seperate himself from Deron next season.

I voted for Rose.

Why I voted Rose. It's close though.

Hawkeye15
06-14-2011, 05:22 PM
Well, they have their opinion but most of the analysts and players the people who are familar with the game and lace up their shoes every night agree that Deron is the best.

no they don't dude. Paul has been widely regarded the best PG in the NBA for 5 years, outside of his injury plagued year.

Look, Paul's numbers, awards, and accolades are better across the board by a mile.

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 05:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL7C89oceQQ

There's your proof DoMeFavors! Should have used that earlier and he would have won the last vote.

Sounds like a smart kid, just because he is young doesnt take away from his knowlege of the game. The kid knows what he's talking about.

Hawkeye15
06-14-2011, 05:24 PM
Why I voted Rose. It's close though.

It really is why I voted that way. Its hard putting Rose over someone who has been killing it for years, but looking at Rose's advanced numbers and the rate at which they improved, I am expecting a nice jump next season as well. I think he now enters the actual discussion for best PG next year.

Just a hunch obviously. If CP3 miraculously is healthier next season, he will still be extremely tough to catch

ManRam
06-14-2011, 05:24 PM
I mean if you want to keep looking at stats, im not saying your wrong because everyone has their opinions. But in your case David Lee last year was better than Garnett. Monte is a top 10 player because he scores more points and has more steals.
I dont have to be given a stat lesson, I watch the game I know what the players say and if you watch Deron play you will see what im talking about.

Why was Lee better than KG? Because KG was first team all-defense? Because KG was an all-star? Because KG had a higher PER and more WS? Because KG was a more efficient scorer?

I mentioned that CP3 averaged more points, but that was 1/15th of my argument. Yes, Lee averages more points per game, but I'd never say he's better. Why you'd think an argument favoring Lee over KG is similar to an argument supporting Paul over Deron is beyond my ability to comprehend. It makes no sense why you'd assume this.

If there's one thing I don't care about for players, it's PPG. The Monta argument is laughable to me. You really think I'd argue that based on my argument of CP3 over Williams?

Come on dude...

I watch the game too. Paul is a more efficient scorer, a better shooter, a better defender, a better passer, has a higher BBall IQ, is a better leader, is one of the 2-3 most clutch players in the NBA and has been a top player for longer and more consistently than Williams.

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 05:31 PM
Why was Lee better than KG? Because KG was first team all-defense? Because KG was an all-star? Because KG had a higher PER and more WS? Because KG was a more efficient scorer?

I mentioned that CP3 averaged more points, but that was 1/15th of my argument. Yes, Lee averages more points per game, but I'd never say he's better. Why you'd think an argument favoring Lee over KG is similar to an argument supporting Paul over Deron is beyond my ability to comprehend. It makes no sense why you'd assume this.

If there's one thing I don't care about for players, it's PPG. The Monta argument is laughable to me. You really think I'd argue that based on my argument of CP3 over Williams?

Come on dude...

I watch the game too. Paul is a more efficient scorer, a better shooter, a better defender, a better passer, has a higher BBall IQ, is a better leader, is one of the 2-3 most clutch players in the NBA and has been a top player for longer and more consistently than Williams.

Just because Deron had an off 2nd half of the year doesnt mean anything, last year correct me if im wrong Deron won this poll. He was voted best PG in the NBA by PSD aswell as Yahoo Sports aswell as Espn. I was saying David Lee because of how your words came off that stats are all that matters. David Lee avg like 20 and 10 and shot a pretty high FG% but that doesn't mean that he is better than a Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan or anyone like that. Deron deserves more respect than what you are giving him.

ManRam
06-14-2011, 05:34 PM
Just because Deron had an off 2nd half of the year doesnt mean anything, last year correct me if im wrong Deron won this poll. He was voted best PG in the NBA by PSD aswell as Yahoo Sports aswell as Espn. I was saying David Lee because of how your words came off that stats are all that matters. David Lee avg like 20 and 10 and shot a pretty high FG% but that doesn't mean that he is better than a Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan or anyone like that. Deron deserves more respect than what you are giving him.

I'm not saying Paul is better because he averages more points and more rebounds...I don't get why you're saying this. It's really funny to me actually. CP3 is better because he does more things better than Williams. Simple as that. Rose is better than Williams for the same reason.

I didn't vote for Deron #1 last year.

Last year is last year. Paul was considered better throughout his career, but he was hurt for the majority of the 09-10 season, which is why he wasn't considered #1. He's always been, besides that short window, considered better than Williams (except for maybe when he was drafted too).

The ONLY reason he was ever regarded as a better player after the beginning of their rookie years was because of Paul's injuries. That's literally the only reason.

Illinirob83
06-14-2011, 05:35 PM
No sane GM in the game would take Williams ahead of Derrick Rose heading into 2011-2012. I love Dwill, but he is not on Derrick Rose's level in the least.

NYKalltheway
06-14-2011, 05:36 PM
Overall- Deron
Offense - Rose

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 05:39 PM
I'm not saying Paul is better because he averages more points and more rebounds...I don't get why you're saying this. It's really funny to me actually. CP3 is better because he does more things better than Williams. Simple as that. Rose is better than Williams for the same reason.

I didn't vote for Deron #1 last year.

Last year is last year. Paul was considered better throughout his career, but he was hurt for the majority of the 09-10 season, which is why he wasn't considered #1. He's always been, besides that short window, considered better than Williams (except for maybe when he was drafted too).

The ONLY reason he was ever regarded as a better player after the beginning of their rookie years was because of Paul's injuries. That's literally the only reason.

I respect your opinion, but I think Deron does stuff more to win than caring about his own game or legacy. He doesnt care about all star games or MVPs he just does what he can to win. Deron can play off ball and Chris Paul always needs the ball in his hands. Deron is so unselfish its not even funny, I feel like Paul cares more about his numbers and his legacy than trying to win games or make his teamates look good. Brewer, Korver, Boozer, Millsap should all thank Deron for their paychecks. Who has Chris Paul ever taken to the next level? He already had a good player in David West but nobody ever came out of Hornets looking like a million dollars.

Cool007
06-14-2011, 05:40 PM
Overall: Rose (offense + Defense)
Passing only: Deron.

Rose has surpassed Deron this year and IMO, neck and neck with CP3 this year (unless CP3 was from 2 years ago). That CP3 from 2 years ago would blow Rose and Deron out of water.

Cool007
06-14-2011, 05:41 PM
I respect your opinion, but I think Deron does stuff more to win than caring about his own game or legacy. He doesnt care about all star games or MVPs he just does what he can to win. Deron can play off ball and Chris Paul always needs the ball in his hands. Deron is so unselfish its not even funny, I feel like Paul cares more about his numbers and his legacy than trying to win games or make his teamates look good. Brewer, Korver, Boozer, Millsap should all thank Deron for their paychecks. Who has Chris Paul ever taken to the next level? He already had a good player in David West but nobody ever came out of Hornets looking like a million dollars.

There are so many things wrong with this post.

DaBear
06-14-2011, 05:54 PM
Chris Paul

Shareeb_omac2
06-14-2011, 05:56 PM
John Wall will be a better PG than Rose. Rose is more suited to be a combo guard that leans more towards a shooting guard. Similar to Iverson...

Ebbs
06-14-2011, 05:57 PM
Sad to see Rose taking this it should have been D-Will. An injured D-will who played on two teams with significantly less talent than Rose deserves mroe credit.

sports4life1989
06-14-2011, 06:04 PM
Sad to see Rose taking this it should have been D-Will. An injured D-will who played on two teams with significantly less talent than Rose deserves mroe credit.

Well this season it's no question that Rose was better.

Chronz
06-14-2011, 06:13 PM
I respect your opinion, but I think Deron does stuff more to win than caring about his own game or legacy. He doesnt care about all star games or MVPs he just does what he can to win. Deron can play off ball and Chris Paul always needs the ball in his hands. Deron is so unselfish its not even funny, I feel like Paul cares more about his numbers and his legacy than trying to win games or make his teamates look good. Brewer, Korver, Boozer, Millsap should all thank Deron for their paychecks. Who has Chris Paul ever taken to the next level? He already had a good player in David West but nobody ever came out of Hornets looking like a million dollars.

I agree, Derons off the ball scoring ability and overall height make him a better SG, when that poll comes up I will vote for him

Seriously though, your Lee vs KG argument was indicative of your inability to process stats, there are other examples you couldve used but the fact that you chose that one only tells me you dont know much about quantifying ones production.

ddhulett
06-14-2011, 06:24 PM
D-Will he and CP3 are the 2 best PG right now

I don't think of Rose when it comes to a true PG just because he reminds me of a D Wade more than a Jason Kidd.

ImThatDude
06-14-2011, 06:26 PM
Chicago has spoken, the ballot has been stuffed.

jim51990
06-14-2011, 06:28 PM
d-will is better then rose by a decent amount its so clear dont be bias and make this right

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 06:29 PM
I agree, Derons off the ball scoring ability and overall height make him a better SG, when that poll comes up I will vote for him

Seriously though, your Lee vs KG argument was indicative of your inability to process stats, there are other examples you couldve used but the fact that you chose that one only tells me you dont know much about quantifying ones production.

Comapring Deron and Chris Paul is like comparing Dexter to his father. The father will always be smarter, have the expierence and be flawless.

Sadds The Gr8
06-14-2011, 06:32 PM
He only played 12 games, he had an injured shooting hand and had 2 game winners for the Nets in 12 games. Also he was passing like crazy I think he broke a record for most assists in first 5 games with a team. He didnt even have many practices aswell.


Well even with the wrist injury he averaged 13 assists for the Nets and led the Nets to a winning record when he started. The wrist did effect his shooting percentage and scoring ability, but he was still able to turn players like Kris Humphries into studs.

yea...and last year Chris Paul got penalized for underachieving and playing injured...so Dwill should this year.

ChicagooooBulls
06-14-2011, 06:33 PM
Easily Rose. Sick thing that he isn't even close to his ceiling either.

ManRam
06-14-2011, 06:34 PM
D-Will he and CP3 are the 2 best PG right now

I don't think of Rose when it comes to a true PG just because he reminds me of a D Wade more than a Jason Kidd.

So unless you play like Jason Kidd (rarely shoot, always pass) you aren't a PG? This whole "Rose isn't a PG" stuff is annoying. He's a PG true and ture. Sure, he scores a lot, because he has to. He doesn't have a SG that can get to the hoop and score. And you know what, he's great at scoring so why shouldn't he?

Was Gary Payton not a PG? What about Walt Frazier? Lenny Wilkens? Would you bash Jerry West for playing PG?

I don't get how he's any less of PG than those guys...and many other great PGs in history. Those guys never/rarely racked up 10 assists a game. Those guys all had years where they shot the ball 18 times or so a game. Not all those guys were great shooters.

I don't get it. The guy can pass very well, and can score very well. His team wins games when he's playing. Give him another scorer and I'm sure he'd act more like a "true" PG.

Chronz
06-14-2011, 06:39 PM
Comapring Deron and Chris Paul is like comparing Dexter to his father. The father will always be smarter, have the expierence and be flawless.

Thats pretty good, I will shut up now

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 06:48 PM
With the way this poll has gone I'm guessing we'd be skipping the 3rd best PG and moving on to #4.

MJ-BULLS
06-14-2011, 06:51 PM
D-Will he and CP3 are the 2 best PG right now

I don't think of Rose when it comes to a true PG just because he reminds me of a D Wade more than a Jason Kidd.

So because rose plays more like wade he isn't a pg?

That's some weird logic.
I guess lebron isn't good at sf because he plays alot more like a pg because of his passing abilities than a sf. Bottom line is, rose plays pg, and plays that position good, he is different to your regular pg. He is a breed of his own and dominates other pg's.

MJ-BULLS
06-14-2011, 06:54 PM
So unless you play like Jason Kidd (rarely shoot, always pass) you aren't a PG? This whole "Rose isn't a PG" stuff is annoying. He's a PG true and ture. Sure, he scores a lot, because he has to. He doesn't have a SG that can get to the hoop and score. And you know what, he's great at scoring so why shouldn't he?

Was Gary Payton not a PG? What about Walt Frazier? Lenny Wilkens? Would you bash Jerry West for playing PG?

I don't get how he's any less of PG than those guys...and many other great PGs in history. Those guys never/rarely racked up 10 assists a game. Those guys all had years where they shot the ball 18 times or so a game. Not all those guys were great shooters.

I don't get it. The guy can pass very well, and can score very well. His team wins games when he's playing. Give him another scorer and I'm sure he'd act more like a "true" PG.

Agree.

JWO35
06-14-2011, 06:56 PM
Deron Williams but Derrick Rose isn't that far behind...

CashValley
06-14-2011, 06:59 PM
I am an unbiased fan of no team, living in Utah, and I must say the Derrick Rose criticism is getting out of hand on these threads. I think that all of you that "hate" on rose know that the real reason you do it isn't because you don't like Rose as a person, or think he is a bad player, but just that you can't stand the overwhelming praise he gets from Chicago fans. Your "hatred" for Rose is really for Chicago fans and their bragging about Rose. Rose himself has done nothing to cause all of the hatred. He is a fantastic young player that fans of every single team would LOVE to have on their team. Some of you will knock him all day on here as a way to make the Chicago fans mad, but in reality you must admit Rose has to be at least the 2nd best PG in the league.

I believe the majority of you who voted for Dwill, would vote for whoever was in the running against Rose. What i mean is, if you go back and look at the poll for #1 PG in the NBA, it was CP3 vs. Rose, Dwill was not even close to them. So if Dwill wasnt even in consideration for #1, how could he possibly be #2 over Rose?

If Dwill were to win this vote, and then tomorrow it was #3 Rose vs (insert whoever you want) all of the Chicago haters would try to make a case for Rondo/Westbrook/etc. over Rose just to once again, make Chicago fans mad.

at some point you have to take an unbias approach and realize that Derrick Rose is at least the #2 PG in the NBA. remove yourself from your hate of Chicago fans and their "pride" in rose, and recognize the facts.

jmoney85
06-14-2011, 07:03 PM
Deron didn't even make the playoffs despite having a guy who produced more than Boozer this year in Al Jefferson and then Brook Lopez

i hope you're joking... dwill was averaging like 23 and 10 before he was traded to the nets lol ... its not his fault

Bruno
06-14-2011, 07:05 PM
With the way this poll has gone I'm guessing we'd be skipping the 3rd best PG and moving on to #4.

x2.

jp611
06-14-2011, 07:08 PM
I am an unbiased fan of no team, living in Utah, and I must say the Derrick Rose criticism is getting out of hand on these threads. I think that all of you that "hate" on rose know that the real reason you do it isn't because you don't like Rose as a person, or think he is a bad player, but just that you can't stand the overwhelming praise he gets from Chicago fans. Your "hatred" for Rose is really for Chicago fans and their bragging about Rose. Rose himself has done nothing to cause all of the hatred. He is a fantastic young player that fans of every single team would LOVE to have on their team. Some of you will knock him all day on here as a way to make the Chicago fans mad, but in reality you must admit Rose has to be at least the 2nd best PG in the league.

I believe the majority of you who voted for Dwill, would vote for whoever was in the running against Rose. What i mean is, if you go back and look at the poll for #1 PG in the NBA, it was CP3 vs. Rose, Dwill was not even close to them. So if Dwill wasnt even in consideration for #1, how could he possibly be #2 over Rose?

If Dwill were to win this vote, and then tomorrow it was #3 Rose vs (insert whoever you want) all of the Chicago haters would try to make a case for Rondo/Westbrook/etc. over Rose just to once again, make Chicago fans mad.

at some point you have to take an unbias approach and realize that Derrick Rose is at least the #2 PG in the NBA. remove yourself from your hate of Chicago fans and their "pride" in rose, and recognize the facts.

This was a great post, welcome to PSD :clap:

marlinsfan24
06-14-2011, 07:09 PM
Has to be D-Rose IMO.

CashValley
06-14-2011, 07:15 PM
The way i see it with the "hatred" for Derrick Rose on these threads is like this:

Lets say you really wanted the new iPhone. You thought it was awesome. You love everything about it, and think its the coolest gadget ever.

But then one of your most obnoxious friends gets the iPhone before you do. And worse, he didn't even buy it himself, his mom bought it for him. And everyday your friend brags to you about how awesome his new iPhone is. He tells you about all the amazing things it does. Every time he downloads a new app, or gets a new ringtone he tells everyone all about it. He annoys you to no end about how awesome his iPhone is.

Eventually you grow to resent his bragging so much, that it makes you start to dislike the iPhone itself. pretty soon you find yourself hating the phone. you think its overrated. you hate its apps. you do whatever you can to make your friend think his iPhone isn't that cool, even though you originally wanted it SO badly yourself.

Its not that there is anything wrong with the phone, if it wasnt for your annoying friend, you would LOVE to have one. But your friends constant bragging ruined it for you.

Thats why so many people on here have grown to "hate" Drose. We all would LOVE to have Drose on our favorite team. The fact is he is a 22 year old MVP with rare talents and potential to be one of the best. But Chicago fans brag about him so much (and rightfully so) that everyone else has grown to dislike rose. We dig and dig and try to find anything we can to make Chicago fans mad.

JordansBulls
06-14-2011, 07:31 PM
i hope you're joking... dwill was averaging like 23 and 10 before he was traded to the nets lol ... its not his fault

Not about the Nets but the Jazz, they weren't even the 8th seed before Deron got traded.

DR_1
06-14-2011, 07:39 PM
I refuse to vote in this pole - how is Rose not #1???!!! He's the freaking MVP of the league.

Anyway, my vote goes to CP3 - great player, just not on Rose's level scoring-wise.

Cano4prez
06-14-2011, 07:41 PM
I refuse to vote in this pole - how is Rose not #1???!!! He's the freaking MVP of the league.

Anyway, my vote goes to CP3 - great player, just not on Rose's level scoring-wise.

MVP ≠ Best player

DR_1
06-14-2011, 07:44 PM
MVP ≠ Best player

Maybe not, but explain to me what CP3 does that Rose does not. Like the above poster stated, people need to quit taking out their hate on Bulls fans on Rose.

Swashcuff
06-14-2011, 07:47 PM
Maybe not, but explain to me what CP3 does that Rose does not. Like the above poster stated, people need to quit taking out their hate on Bulls fans on Rose.

Smh.

Everyone who doesn't think Rose isn't the best PG in the NBA is a hater. We get it already.

THE GIPPER
06-14-2011, 07:54 PM
I refuse to vote in this pole - how is Rose not #1???!!! He's the freaking MVP of the league.

Anyway, my vote goes to CP3 - great player, just not on Rose's level scoring-wise.

:facepalm:


just go watch one game of cp3 in the playoffs this year and you will realize he is the best

ManRam
06-14-2011, 08:01 PM
Maybe not, but explain to me what CP3 does that Rose does not. Like the above poster stated, people need to quit taking out their hate on Bulls fans on Rose.

He's a better shooter, passer, rebounder, defender, leader and more efficient. His basketball IQ is far better as well.

That's the simplified version.

ManRam
06-14-2011, 08:06 PM
He's a better shooter, passer, rebounder, defender, leader and more efficient. His basketball IQ is far better as well.

That's the simplified version.

Adding more...if you want to compare their first three seasons (a service to Rose since Paul's numbers only get better...)

Paul: 18.2 PPG (14 shots), 4.5 REB, 9.5 AST, 2.3 STL, 2.5 TO
Rose: 20.9 PPG (17.4 shots), 3.9 REB, 6.7 AST, 0.9 STL, 2.9 TO

Paul: 24.3 PER, 37 WS, .217 WS/48, .555 TS%, 119 ORTG, 104 DRTG
Rose: 19.4 PER, 24 WS, .129 WS/48, .535 TS%, 109 ORTG, 108 DRTG

Paul clearly was the better player overall his first three years. Compared his numbers past his first three and it gets even more skewed.

If you really can't see what Paul does that Rose doesn't, you're crazy. If you can't see it with your eyes, the stats show it so obviously too.

rmonte4
06-14-2011, 08:06 PM
I am an unbiased fan of no team, living in Utah, and I must say the Derrick Rose criticism is getting out of hand on these threads. I think that all of you that "hate" on rose know that the real reason you do it isn't because you don't like Rose as a person, or think he is a bad player, but just that you can't stand the overwhelming praise he gets from Chicago fans. Your "hatred" for Rose is really for Chicago fans and their bragging about Rose. Rose himself has done nothing to cause all of the hatred. He is a fantastic young player that fans of every single team would LOVE to have on their team. Some of you will knock him all day on here as a way to make the Chicago fans mad, but in reality you must admit Rose has to be at least the 2nd best PG in the league.

I believe the majority of you who voted for Dwill, would vote for whoever was in the running against Rose. What i mean is, if you go back and look at the poll for #1 PG in the NBA, it was CP3 vs. Rose, Dwill was not even close to them. So if Dwill wasnt even in consideration for #1, how could he possibly be #2 over Rose?

If Dwill were to win this vote, and then tomorrow it was #3 Rose vs (insert whoever you want) all of the Chicago haters would try to make a case for Rondo/Westbrook/etc. over Rose just to once again, make Chicago fans mad.

at some point you have to take an unbias approach and realize that Derrick Rose is at least the #2 PG in the NBA. remove yourself from your hate of Chicago fans and their "pride" in rose, and recognize the facts.

Thank you

gbpackers12
06-14-2011, 08:08 PM
I voted for Williams, but it looks like Rose is taking it.

More-Than-Most
06-14-2011, 08:12 PM
He's a better shooter, passer, rebounder, defender, leader and more efficient. His basketball IQ is far better as well.

That's the simplified version.

Lol perfectly said ManRam... You should have just let it be here instead of going further. The rebuttal will be he is a better scorer.

D-Will4Prez
06-14-2011, 08:13 PM
IMO Rose, CP3, and DWill are all tied for 1st ^.^

sixer04fan
06-14-2011, 08:30 PM
IMO Rose, CP3, and DWill are all tied for 1st ^.^

You sound like a politician

DoMeFavors
06-14-2011, 09:07 PM
Deron deserves this vote, I dont care what anyone says.

chicago lulz
06-14-2011, 10:01 PM
I am an unbiased fan of no team, living in Utah, and I must say the Derrick Rose criticism is getting out of hand on these threads. I think that all of you that "hate" on rose know that the real reason you do it isn't because you don't like Rose as a person, or think he is a bad player, but just that you can't stand the overwhelming praise he gets from Chicago fans. Your "hatred" for Rose is really for Chicago fans and their bragging about Rose. Rose himself has done nothing to cause all of the hatred. He is a fantastic young player that fans of every single team would LOVE to have on their team. Some of you will knock him all day on here as a way to make the Chicago fans mad, but in reality you must admit Rose has to be at least the 2nd best PG in the league.

I believe the majority of you who voted for Dwill, would vote for whoever was in the running against Rose. What i mean is, if you go back and look at the poll for #1 PG in the NBA, it was CP3 vs. Rose, Dwill was not even close to them. So if Dwill wasnt even in consideration for #1, how could he possibly be #2 over Rose?

If Dwill were to win this vote, and then tomorrow it was #3 Rose vs (insert whoever you want) all of the Chicago haters would try to make a case for Rondo/Westbrook/etc. over Rose just to once again, make Chicago fans mad.

at some point you have to take an unbias approach and realize that Derrick Rose is at least the #2 PG in the NBA. remove yourself from your hate of Chicago fans and their "pride" in rose, and recognize the facts.

Valiant effort, but you're wasting your time. It is what it is. People are going to hate on him regardless, because he's up there as a player, and he get's a lot of praise from Bulls fans (Kid from Chicago, the "hometown hero"...I'm sure fan bases would act the same if they had someone like Rose on their team, being a product of the city he's playing in).

Honestly, you just sit back and laugh, while trying to sift through real criticism and "blinded" criticism.

douglas
06-14-2011, 10:32 PM
D. Rose!

LakersA's49ers
06-14-2011, 10:46 PM
im surprised williams went from 2 to 1 back to 2. he shouldnt of even been at 1 last year

Jewelz0376
06-14-2011, 10:53 PM
looks like it's time to move to #4

Chill_Will_24
06-14-2011, 10:58 PM
Try to spot a single DWILL vote from a poster that has the words "MJ", "CHI", "ROSE", or anything related to Chicago in their name... :laugh: I love public polls