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View Full Version : Steve Kerr: Lebron Is No Jordan, More Like Pippen



towlsmoke420
06-13-2011, 03:30 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6656859

"The irony to me is that LeBron is not Michael. LeBron is actually Scottie," former Bull and current television analyst Steve Kerr said Monday on "The Waddle & Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000. "He's so similar to Scottie in that defensively he was just a monster, could guard anybody, really more of a point forward than scoring guard. Scottie always loved to distribute the ball. That's really where LeBron's preference is.

"Phil Jackson used to call Scottie a 'sometimes shooter.' Sometimes they would go in, sometimes they wouldn't. That's how it is with LeBron. He's a great talent and a great player but you can see his flaws as a basketball player. He doesn't have an offensive game that he can rely on: no low-post game, no mid-range jump shot so when the game really gets tough he has a hard time finding easy baskets and getting himself going. That's what Michael did in his sleep so that's why the comparison is wrong."

J4KOP99
06-13-2011, 03:32 PM
I've been saying this all season long.

BradytoGronkTD
06-13-2011, 03:32 PM
How about this, Lebron is Lebron

mjt20mik
06-13-2011, 03:34 PM
Interesting. So in hindsight, having Lebron and Wade could possible work if they set their roles to their strengths?

h2r09
06-13-2011, 03:34 PM
can we stop with these ****ing jordan comparisons. first off they arent even close to the same type of player, nor does lebron even want to be like that, according to chris brousssard. lebron prefers to be the facilitator type of guy, whether fans like it or not.

godolphins
06-13-2011, 03:39 PM
I don't know why people keep comparing players to Jordan :shrug: Especially Lebron whose not even the same kind of player Jordan was, I could understand if you would compare Lebron to Magic Johnson or Oscar Robertson because his game is more similar to those guys but his game is not similar to Jordan at all. If anything Lebron's game is similar to Pippen.

D Roses Bulls
06-13-2011, 03:43 PM
kerr is right, but scottie would of killed lebron

justinnum1
06-13-2011, 03:45 PM
How about this, Lebron is Lebron

thats not possible, he needs to be compared to someone :rolleyes:

towlsmoke420
06-13-2011, 03:46 PM
kerr is right, but scottie would of killed lebron

LMMFFAAOOO at your sig pic

PLAYERS FAN
06-13-2011, 03:47 PM
Wow!

D Roses Bulls
06-13-2011, 03:47 PM
LMMFFAAOOO at your sig pic

thanks...... just put it on

PLAYERS FAN
06-13-2011, 03:51 PM
That's not a bad thing. Wade is a proven batman.

godolphins
06-13-2011, 03:54 PM
.

Lakersfan2483
06-13-2011, 03:55 PM
I agree with the bottom half of what Kerr is saying. Clearly, Lebron is better than Pippen, that goes without saying. However, I have been saying the same thing for the past few years in that Lebron needs to work on his weaknesses. He doesn't have a mid range game, cannot play behind the offense (meaning off the ball) and doesn't have a post game. He gets exposed when he faces very good teams on defense as the rounds progress. He needs a go to move and to develop those facets in his game if he wants to win a ring as the main guy.

It is bad to compare Jordan and Lebron as they had two different styles of play. Lebron is more of a distributor who can score. MJ was in constant attack mode. The players that resemble Jordan more are Kobe and D. Wade. Kobe has Jordan's game from the mid 90's on. Wade is more like Michael during the 80's. Obviously, no one is better than MJ, but those guys play more like him.

As far as Lebron, a better comparison is Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson.

godolphins
06-13-2011, 03:56 PM
.

JAZZNC
06-13-2011, 04:07 PM
I get so sick of people whining about it not being fair to compare James to Jordan. When you do what he did this summer, go around calling yourself the "King" (tho he has won nothing...ever), and having not just ******** fans but people who actually know a little about basketball saying he's the best ever....well you're gonna be compared to the best ever. To be the best you have to be better than the best, therefore you get compared to the best. The comparisons will continue and they will continue to show that Lebron just isn't on the level of the all time greats.

h2r09
06-13-2011, 04:07 PM
I agree with the bottom half of what Kerr is saying. Clearly, Lebron is better than Pippen, that goes without saying. However, I have been saying the same thing for the past few years in that Lebron needs to work on his weaknesses. He doesn't have a mid range game, cannot play behind the offense (meaning off the ball) and doesn't have a post game. He gets exposed when he faces very good teams on defense as the rounds progress. He needs a go to move and to develop those facets in his game if he wants to win a ring as the main guy.

It is bad to compare Jordan and Lebron as they had two different styles of play. Lebron is more of a distributor who can score. MJ was in constant attack mode. The players that resemble Jordan more are Kobe and D. Wade. Kobe has Jordan's game from the mid 90's on. Wade is more like Michael during the 80's. Obviously, no one is better than MJ, but those guys play more like him.

As far as Lebron, a better comparison is Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson.

lebron is statistically the 2nd best mid range shooter in the league. but those are just facts..

Crackadalic
06-13-2011, 04:11 PM
Scottie Pippen:
6 NBA Champion (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
7 NBA All-Star (1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1994)
3 All-NBA First Team Selection (1994–1996)
2 All-NBA Second Team Selection (1992, 1997)
2 All-NBA Third Team Selection (1993, 1998)
8 NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1992–1999)
2 NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (1991, 2000)
Chicago Bulls #33 Retired
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

So why is it so bad to be Scottie Pippen?

Tony_Starks
06-13-2011, 04:12 PM
Oscar Robertson
25.7 PPG 9.5 ASP 7.5 RPG

Magic Johnson
19.5 PPG 11.2 ASP 7.2 RPG

Michael Jordan
30.1 PPG 5.3 ASP 6.2 RPG

Lebron James
27.7 PPG 7.0 ASP 7.1 RPG



Wow. Magic damn near averaged a career triple double! Thats pretty great!

Il Mago50
06-13-2011, 04:15 PM
Steve Kerr is a *****, doesn't have the balls to come out with this until Lebron actually shows us that he obviously isn't Jordan and will never be.

Unless you stick by the guy through thick and thin with the opinion, all analysts need to shut the **** up and let the man see if he can make his own legacy.

There will never be another Jordan but Lebron might make his own legacy. Forget this Jordan talk until he manages to win at least 4 rings and then that talk can start again.

GoferKing_
06-13-2011, 04:35 PM
Steve Kerr is a *****, doesn't have the balls to come out with this until Lebron actually shows us that he obviously isn't Jordan and will never be.

Unless you stick by the guy through thick and thin with the opinion, all analysts need to shut the **** up and let the man see if he can make his own legacy.

There will never be another Jordan but Lebron might make his own legacy. Forget this Jordan talk until he manages to win at least 4 rings and then that talk can start again.

Pfff, IMO he should win 6 of 'em to be in that talk, Jordan has 6 it would be unfair to put 4 ring LBJ in the same place as 6 ring Jordan, why should he win less and be equal?

Bruno
06-13-2011, 04:38 PM
People need to let go of this constant comparison to the Jordan/Pippen dynamic.

He's more like Magic, except he can score a bit better.

Like most mega-stars, ever- he'd thrive with a dominant big man. The likelihood that he'll still rack up titles with a SG as his wing-man will just serve as testimony to his greatness later on down the line.

Hawkeye15
06-13-2011, 04:39 PM
I agree with the bottom half of what Kerr is saying. Clearly, Lebron is better than Pippen, that goes without saying. However, I have been saying the same thing for the past few years in that Lebron needs to work on his weaknesses. He doesn't have a mid range game, cannot play behind the offense (meaning off the ball) and doesn't have a post game. He gets exposed when he faces very good teams on defense as the rounds progress. He needs a go to move and to develop those facets in his game if he wants to win a ring as the main guy.

It is bad to compare Jordan and Lebron as they had two different styles of play. Lebron is more of a distributor who can score. MJ was in constant attack mode. The players that resemble Jordan more are Kobe and D. Wade. Kobe has Jordan's game from the mid 90's on. Wade is more like Michael during the 80's. Obviously, no one is better than MJ, but those guys play more like him.

As far as Lebron, a better comparison is Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson.


great post. Its pretty much my opinion on the matter at this point.

godolphins
06-13-2011, 04:46 PM
I agree with the bottom half of what Kerr is saying. Clearly, Lebron is better than Pippen, that goes without saying. However, I have been saying the same thing for the past few years in that Lebron needs to work on his weaknesses. He doesn't have a mid range game, cannot play behind the offense (meaning off the ball) and doesn't have a post game. He gets exposed when he faces very good teams on defense as the rounds progress. He needs a go to move and to develop those facets in his game if he wants to win a ring as the main guy.

It is bad to compare Jordan and Lebron as they had two different styles of play. Lebron is more of a distributor who can score. MJ was in constant attack mode. The players that resemble Jordan more are Kobe and D. Wade. Kobe has Jordan's game from the mid 90's on. Wade is more like Michael during the 80's. Obviously, no one is better than MJ, but those guys play more like him.

As far as Lebron, a better comparison is Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson.
I agree with everything except the part where you said he doesn't have a mid range game when he happens to have on of the best mid range shooting % in the NBA.

daboywonder2002
06-13-2011, 04:54 PM
so why not just take this pippen comparison and use it to your advantage? i mean is this such a bad thing. it sure as heck helps the pecking order.

wade- number one scorer.
bosh- number 2 scorer
james- playmaker aka scottie pippen role. play defense, get triple doubles. no need to be a dominant scorer.

godolphins
06-13-2011, 04:56 PM
The fact is that only two players had a higher mid range shooting percentage than Lebron(Dirk and Ray Allen) I don't know why people keep say he has no mid range game.

marlinsfan24
06-13-2011, 05:00 PM
People need to let go of this constant comparison to the Jordan/Pippen dynamic.

He's more like Magic, except he can score a bit better.

Like most mega-stars, ever- he'd thrive with a dominant big man. The likelihood that he'll still rack up titles with a SG as his wing-man will just serve as testimony to his greatness later on down the line.

x2.

BDawk4Prez
06-13-2011, 05:06 PM
I hate when players get compared and there is really no reason to be able to tell if it is accurate or not.

ne3xchamps
06-13-2011, 05:11 PM
Kerr is a little off on the second half of what he said. Lebron has the shot IMO, he just has something going on with his confidence in the big stage at the end. He can dominate for 3 quarters, and then............ gone like cockroaches when the lights come on.

cubbybear2290
06-13-2011, 05:13 PM
I personally think/believe there are 2 players that LeBron compares very favorably to. Those 2 players are Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson. He's a willing passer he doesn't feel he needs to take over the game scoring wise as much as he feels he can create shots......Just my belief, don't tear me apart too much lol.

Tmath
06-13-2011, 05:13 PM
Closest comparison to Jordan is Kobe. I don't know why Lebron doesn't try and develop a post game, he would be a much better basketball player if he did.

bulls leakage
06-13-2011, 05:15 PM
kerr is right, but scottie would of killed lebron

No, he wouldn't. I'm a huge bulls fan, but lets be realistic here. I've been reading your posts, and you're just a homer with an attitude suggesting that you're smart. LeBron is CLEARLY better than Pippen, and there isn't even a debate.

ne3xchamps
06-13-2011, 05:16 PM
I personally think/believe there are 2 players that LeBron compares very favorably to. Those 2 players are Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson. He's a willing he doesn't feel he needs to take over the game scoring wise as much as he feels he can create shots......Just my belief, don't tear me apart too much lol.

I see what you're saying, but to me it seems as though he doesn't want to take over late. That may have to do with not needing to, or like I said a HUGE confidence issue on the big stage. Who knows, only Lebron knows. A sport shrink may do him wonders in the offseason.

Law25
06-13-2011, 05:28 PM
Oscar Robertson
25.7 PPG 9.5 ASP 7.5 RPG

Magic Johnson
19.5 PPG 11.2 ASP 7.2 RPG

Michael Jordan
30.1 PPG 5.3 ASP 6.2 RPG

Lebron James
27.7 PPG 7.0 ASP 7.1 RPG

Finals stats
19.9pts 7rebs 6.8ast ( Pippen type numbers)

This entire summer should be focus on his offensive game so he'll have enough trust in it to use it on the biggest stage.

Tuck&Rolle
06-13-2011, 05:29 PM
Love the comment lol

D Roses Bulls
06-13-2011, 05:39 PM
No, he wouldn't. I'm a huge bulls fan, but lets be realistic here. I've been reading your posts, and you're just a homer with an attitude suggesting that you're smart. LeBron is CLEARLY better than Pippen, and there isn't even a debate.

I dont care if you are a bulls fan. you obviously aren't old enough to have watched pippen play. he is considered by many the best or one of the top 2 best defensive wing players ever. 6'8" 230lbs..... a young pippen winning his first ring in a game 5 close out game recorded 32 points, 13 rebounds, seven assists and five steals and guess who he was also guarding that game? Magic Johnson...... he was a bad call away in 94 from taking the bulls to the finals by himself in a much tougher era and stronger east.

MELO 15
06-13-2011, 05:40 PM
The fact is that only two players had a higher mid range shooting percentage than Lebron(Dirk and Ray Allen) I don't know why people keep say he has no mid range game.

how many mid range jump shots did he shoot? if a guy like shaq went 1 or 1 from the free throw line for an entire year, woud that make him the best free throw shooter in the game for that yeay? .............. exactly, dont let numbers fool u, the fact is if u take the lane away from lebrick and make him a shooter, than he isnt that dominant player offensively people make him out to be

THE MTL
06-13-2011, 05:42 PM
Lebron James really needs to develop his midrange game. And so does Wade. I noticed that the Mavs would just collapse in the interior cause all Wade and James would do is penetrate. They seriously need to practice jump shooting. It gains the respect of the defense and also adds to your career (less contact).

And Lebron has many skills that Pippen had. Probi resembling Pippen more than Jordan in terms of abilities. However!, dont disrespect Lebron James and call him Pippen cause he is CLEARLY WAYYYY better than Pippen.

bulls leakage
06-13-2011, 05:45 PM
I dont care if you are a bulls fan. you obviously aren't old enough to have watched pippen play. he is considered by many the best or one of the top 2 best defensive wing players ever. 6'8" 230lbs..... a young pippen winning his first ring in a game 5 close out game recorded 32 points, 13 rebounds, seven assists and five steals and guess who he was also guarding that game? Magic Johnson...... he was a bad call away in 94 from taking the bulls to the finals by himself in a much tougher era and stronger east.

Yeah, and you know how good of a defender LeBron would be if rules were the same as they used to be? He has the potential to be better than Scottie defensively. So one game justifies that Pippen is better than LeBron? How about LeBron stats pretty much every year. How about the fact that he carried a garbage cavs team to the finals by himself. Please, just say that Pippen would have done that so I can get a good laugh.

You are just a homer bro. LeBron is better than Pippen. I'm sure the man who has watched just as many old bulls games as anybody (JordanBulls) will agree that LeBron is a better player.

Kevj77
06-13-2011, 05:45 PM
Why compare him to MJ they are different. The one thing Kerr said that is 100% correct is Lebron has holes in his game. No midrange shot, no post game and he can't play without the ball. Magic Johnson talked about how he improved after losing the 1984 finals and being called Tragic Magic. Magic had no jumpshot and worked on it to at least make it respectable. MJ didn't come into the NBA with that deadly midrange fadeaway he developed it during the first few years of his career.

Will Lebron work on his weaknesses like some of the former greats? If he does the sky is still the limit because he is the most talented player, but great players improve what they don't do well.

MELO 15
06-13-2011, 05:49 PM
No, he wouldn't. I'm a huge bulls fan, but lets be realistic here. I've been reading your posts, and you're just a homer with an attitude suggesting that you're smart. LeBron is CLEARLY better than Pippen, and there isn't even a debate.

I would take pippen b4 lebrick, pippen=better defender, and mind u, he played in an era where basketball was alot more physical than it is now, and offensively had an all around better game, so yes, give me pippen any day over lebron. Some thing tells me that lebron can not get any better than he is now, he possibly can if he would allow others to teach him, but he's lebron james"He's not takind advice from anybody"

WeBallin
06-13-2011, 05:51 PM
Scottie Pippen:
6 NBA Champion (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
7 NBA All-Star (1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1994)
3 All-NBA First Team Selection (19941996)
2 All-NBA Second Team Selection (1992, 1997)
2 All-NBA Third Team Selection (1993, 1998)
8 NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (19921999)2 NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (1991, 2000)
Chicago Bulls #33 Retired
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

So why is it so bad to be Scottie Pippen?

This is what LBJ will never do...lol

bulls leakage
06-13-2011, 05:54 PM
This is what LBJ will never do...lol

How do you know? He's won it 3 years in a row. I don't see anybody stopping him anytime soon.

Draco
06-13-2011, 05:55 PM
I was amused when Scottie said Lebron was better than Jordan because I kept thinking his opinion would have to have something to do with fans chanting "Scott-ie Pipp-en" at Cheat games.

D Roses Bulls
06-13-2011, 05:56 PM
Yeah, and you know how good of a defender LeBron would be if rules were the same as they used to be? He has the potential to be better than Scottie defensively. So one game justifies that Pippen is better than LeBron? How about LeBron stats pretty much every year. How about the fact that he carried a garbage cavs team to the finals by himself. Please, just say that Pippen would have done that so I can get a good laugh.

You are just a homer bro. LeBron is better than Pippen. I'm sure the man who has watched just as many old bulls games as anybody (JordanBulls) will agree that LeBron is a better player.

could lebron put these stats up back in that era? I bet not. lebron complains and *****es when a guy touches him. I doubt lebron could of handed that physical play back than. NO PLAYER in the game today could of played back than really. look at the east when lebron was in the finals in 2007. It was horrible. seriously, you need to go back and watch old games, not highlights, but old games with pippen. and no offense to JB, but that man still thinks McGrady is good. so he isnt the most reliable source. like i said, you never watched pippen play in his prime. so i wouldn't comment on things you dont know about. when he didnt have jordan, scottie led the Bulls in scoring, assists, blocks and the entire league in steals.

by the way, people live in the moment too much especially on this site. and I dont have to "act" like i know what im talking about. I would say my predictions speak for themselves.

WeBallin
06-13-2011, 05:58 PM
How do you know? He's won it 3 years in a row. I don't see anybody stopping him anytime soon.

3 out of 7 years in the league, means at best he'll get to 6

Draco
06-13-2011, 05:58 PM
You are just a homer bro. LeBron is better than Pippen. I'm sure the man who has watched just as many old bulls games as anybody (JordanBulls) will agree that LeBron is a better player.

a more offensively skilled/powerful player.. but not as focused, not as hard a worker and not as reliable for the better part of 48 minutes a game 82 games a season. Charley Rosen said it best, Lebron is the biggest fraud since White Chocolate.

D Roses Bulls
06-13-2011, 05:59 PM
Scottie Pippen:
6 NBA Champion (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
7 NBA All-Star (1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1994)
3 All-NBA First Team Selection (19941996)
2 All-NBA Second Team Selection (1992, 1997)
2 All-NBA Third Team Selection (1993, 1998)
8 NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (19921999)
2 NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (1991, 2000)
Chicago Bulls #33 Retired
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

So why is it so bad to be Scottie Pippen?

and what people dont understand is that pippen was practically playing on a bad back the last 2 years with michael and in 99 or we probably could add a couple more 1st team all NBA's onto his resume.

LA_Raiders
06-13-2011, 06:01 PM
lol, agree. he is a sidekick

bulls leakage
06-13-2011, 06:06 PM
could lebron put these stats up back in that era? I bet not. lebron complains and *****es when a guy touches him. I doubt lebron could of handed that physical play back than. NO PLAYER in the game today could of played back than really. look at the east when lebron was in the finals in 2007. It was horrible. seriously, you need to go back and watch old games, not highlights, but old games with pippen. and no offense to JB, but that man still thinks McGrady is good. so he isnt the most reliable source. like i said, you never watched pippen play in his prime. so i wouldn't comment on things you dont know about. when he didnt have jordan, scottie led the Bulls in scoring, assists, blocks and the entire league in steals.

by the way, people live in the moment too much especially on this site. and I dont have to "act" like i know what im talking about. I would say my predictions speak for themselves.

If I was living in the moment, wouldn't I be saying LeBron is garbage?

All you say is "you never watched Pippen play". Yes, I have. So that ends 70% of your argument.

Who cares if he led the bulls in those categories one year. Look at what LeBron led the team in YEAR AFTER YEAR in Cleveland. Yeah, Scottie ALMOST took the Bulls to the finals without Jordan. LeBron took a worse team to the finals.

He *****es and moans because it works. Refs give him lots of calls don't they? He never gets T's for *****ing and moaning, so why not? LeBron would be fine in the more physical era. He would put up these kinds of stats, especially considering possessions per game was higher back in that era...

Swashcuff
06-13-2011, 06:07 PM
Scottie Pippen:
6 NBA Champion (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
7 NBA All-Star (1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1994)
3 All-NBA First Team Selection (19941996)
2 All-NBA Second Team Selection (1992, 1997)
2 All-NBA Third Team Selection (1993, 1998)
8 NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (19921999)
2 NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (1991, 2000)
Chicago Bulls #33 Retired
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

So why is it so bad to be Scottie Pippen?

:nod:

hugepatsfan
06-13-2011, 06:10 PM
Playing style wise Kerr is abdolutely correct. Pippen is an awesome comparison in thet regard.

blahblahyoutoo
06-13-2011, 06:16 PM
how many mid range jump shots did he shoot? if a guy like shaq went 1 or 1 from the free throw line for an entire year, woud that make him the best free throw shooter in the game for that yeay? .............. exactly, dont let numbers fool u, the fact is if u take the lane away from lebrick and make him a shooter, than he isnt that dominant player offensively people make him out to be

he didn't take 1 mid range jumper all season.
anything more than ~300 a season would make for a valid sample size IMO.

D Roses Bulls
06-13-2011, 06:16 PM
If I was living in the moment, wouldn't I be saying LeBron is garbage?

All you say is "you never watched Pippen play". Yes, I have. So that ends 70% of your argument.

Who cares if he led the bulls in those categories one year. Look at what LeBron led the team in YEAR AFTER YEAR in Cleveland. Yeah, Scottie ALMOST took the Bulls to the finals without Jordan. LeBron took a worse team to the finals.

He *****es and moans because it works. Refs give him lots of calls don't they? He never gets T's for *****ing and moaning, so why not? LeBron would be fine in the more physical era. He would put up these kinds of stats, especially considering possessions per game was higher back in that era...

lebrons last two years in cleveland, he didnt play with that bad of a team at all. they were predicted the last two years to win the championship in cleveland and didnt even make it to the finals. lebron just lost playing with another top 2-3 player in the game and another top 15 player and couldnt even win. seriously man, how old are you? its one thing to have watched pippen in 2003 than it was watching pippen play in 1993. lebron took a bad team in a HORRIBLE CONFERENCE at the time to the finals. BIG DEAL. If the heat that year didnt get really old as fast as they did that year and played like they did in 2006, lebron wouldn't of had a chance. besides, lebron got swept. do you know how much lebron gets away with? if the nba didnt let him get away with as much as he does, he wouldn't be as good as he is right now. like i said dude, go back and watch the film. the film doesn't lie. don't let stats be your main argument.

bmykal24
06-13-2011, 06:18 PM
im not a lebron fan at all but with that being said he has the ability to be one of the best but hes mentally weak, and i personally dont think he works hard enough. if he did he would have a jumper, and a post game, he has neither, and and on the biggest stage of them all he was absent in the final minutes, so like i said he is just mentally weak, i dont like him but i repsect what he can do. if he ever got strong mentally and got a midrange game that was pretty good, and has a decent post game that would be scary to even think what he could do. to me it just seems like he rather be a facilitator and theres nothing wrong with that, some of the greats were that, magic and oscar, come to mind. but if thats the case and he wants to play the passer role then the jordan comparisons need to stop. the jordan comparisons need to stop anyway, wade, lebron, and kobe are NOT jordan, never will be. and im like the biggest kobe fan there is but these comparisons are silly, just stop with it and let these athletes be them. let lebron be lebron

justinnum1
06-13-2011, 06:22 PM
kerr is probably right here. but lebron has shown flashes(celtics, bull) where he can be Michael.

sb123
06-13-2011, 06:24 PM
Most folks who analyzed said this from way back.

Reason why LeBron struggles is not that he has mental issues -- it is that his game lacks some huge pieces like a post and intermediate game.

Without those, as Tim Legler says, it is either a 3 or a lay-up .... but both are hard to get in the playoffs b/c teams are simply better and Defenses play tougher.

If LeBron went back this offseason and simply develop a (1) post move from the left, one from the right plus a jab step 15 footer from the wings .... he'd be impossible.

But this requires two things (1) LeBron admitting his game is lacking in critical skills and 2) working on it 4-5 hors per day with both coaches and some good practice talent.

Maybe he can call Carmelo and ask him to train together might help ..... hey Hakeem seemed to have a great influence of Dwight who was a similar type talent with bad skill sets. And Dwight was alot better this year/

leafswin2011
06-13-2011, 06:25 PM
Wow. Magic damn near averaged a career triple double! Thats pretty great!

oscar had way better numbers then magic...26 9.5 and 7 damnnn

sb123
06-13-2011, 06:26 PM
oscar had way better numbers then magic...26 9.5 and 7 damnnn

Robertson's number excluding his last 3-4 years were 27/10/9. His second year in the league he average 30 PPG plus 13 Reb and 12 Asst .... as a Point Guard. He also had no three arc to benefit from.

To this day, Oscar Robertson feels he was better than Jordan ... and some folks agree. He would gag at being compared to even Magic. Probably punch you in the face if you compared him to Pippen or LeBron.

sb123
06-13-2011, 06:29 PM
kerr is probably right here. but lebron has shown flashes(celtics, bull) where he can be Michael.

Come on now. Let us be serious.

MJ had a complete Offensive package that LeBron would dream of approximating.

Stop the comparisons to MJ. He was a scoring machine. You hurt poor LBJ when you do that.

Lebron compares favorably to other great players but not to elite scorers like Jordan or Bird or even Dirk.

justinnum1
06-13-2011, 06:33 PM
Come on now. Let us be serious.

MJ had a complete Offensive package that LeBron would dream of approximating.

Stop the comparisons to MJ. He was a scoring machine. You hurt poor LBJ when you do that.

Lebron compares favorably to other great players but not to elite scorers like Jordan or Bird or even Dirk.

thats fine, but you obviously didnt watch the celtics and bulls series, there was a reason everyone was bringing up the comparisons.

bulls leakage
06-13-2011, 06:35 PM
lebrons last two years in cleveland, he didnt play with that bad of a team at all. they were predicted the last two years to win the championship in cleveland and didnt even make it to the finals. lebron just lost playing with another top 2-3 player in the game and another top 15 player and couldnt even win. seriously man, how old are you? its one thing to have watched pippen in 2003 than it was watching pippen play in 1993. lebron took a bad team in a HORRIBLE CONFERENCE at the time to the finals. BIG DEAL. If the heat that year didnt get really old as fast as they did that year and played like they did in 2006, lebron wouldn't of had a chance. besides, lebron got swept. do you know how much lebron gets away with? if the nba didnt let him get away with as much as he does, he wouldn't be as good as he is right now. like i said dude, go back and watch the film. the film doesn't lie. don't let stats be your main argument.

Again, I have seen Pippen play. You can stop making that argument already.

If that is how you want to debate, go back and look at the first 3 series of the playoffs. Has Scottie ever dominated a series like LeBron did against the Celtics? How about at the end of game 5 vs Chicago. Did Pippen ever do anything like that? Go back and look at the film.

MickeyMgl
06-13-2011, 06:35 PM
I agree with the bottom half of what Kerr is saying. Clearly, Lebron is better than Pippen, that goes without saying. However, I have been saying the same thing for the past few years in that Lebron needs to work on his weaknesses. He doesn't have a mid range game, cannot play behind the offense (meaning off the ball) and doesn't have a post game. He gets exposed when he faces very good teams on defense as the rounds progress. He needs a go to move and to develop those facets in his game if he wants to win a ring as the main guy.

It is bad to compare Jordan and Lebron as they had two different styles of play. Lebron is more of a distributor who can score. MJ was in constant attack mode. The players that resemble Jordan more are Kobe and D. Wade. Kobe has Jordan's game from the mid 90's on. Wade is more like Michael during the 80's. Obviously, no one is better than MJ, but those guys play more like him.

As far as Lebron, a better comparison is Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson.

It's shocking that it's taken some people so long to figure this out. It seemed evident to me early in his career.

Most good players can be divided into two groups.

One group includes players like Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill (in Detroit), Lebron James, Jason Kidd, Lamar Odom, Detlef Shrempf...

The other group includes Jerry West, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson...

raidersthunder
06-13-2011, 06:35 PM
There should of never been a comparison between mj and lebron from the start.. First of all they play different positions there style of play are different lbj attacks with strength mj with his finesse.. Mj is a complete clutch scorer and consistence lbj is not.. Lbj is a better passer that's about it..

sb123
06-13-2011, 06:36 PM
thats fine, but you obviously didnt watch the celtics and bulls series, there was a reason everyone was bringing up the comparisons.

I hear you but his sweet stroking from 3 in those series was a bit of an aberration and it was where his points totals really bulked up.

Look, for your team's sake and his, he needs to work really hard this off-season on his post and intermediate game.

Jordan by year 5/6 had mastered every aspect of his game in the NBA.

I don't see that LeBron has worked as hard as others at his craft b/c if he had -- things like a turnaround in the post would be easy for a young man with his physical skills.

** Plus I did watch the games early on and it would be good given how this past year went down if Heat fans would give some credit to others when they point out obvious things. Basketball was not invented in Miami on 7/8/2010. Listening to some of the Miami fans for 10 months has been maddening.

Fact is LeBron struggles at times b/c he does not have elite skills sets on the offensive end. Much like Wilt struggled at times against great teams like the Celtics even if he was the best on the court that night. Wade struggles b/c his J is not consistent.

There are some fans here who have seen more basketball than you. Be great if you listened and analyzed before snarking. Just saying b/c I think we can all learn from others.

JAZZNC
06-13-2011, 06:43 PM
It's shocking that it's taken some people so long to figure this out. It seemed evident to me early in his career.

Most good players can be divided into two groups.

One group includes players like Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill (in Detroit), Lebron James, Jason Kidd, Lamar Odom, Detlef Shrempf...

The other group includes Jerry West, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson...

You lose any credibility when you put AI into the same sentence as West, Jordan, and Bryant? Some people.....:facepalm:

sb123
06-13-2011, 06:44 PM
It's shocking that it's taken some people so long to figure this out. It seemed evident to me early in his career.

Most good players can be divided into two groups.

One group includes players like Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill (in Detroit), Lebron James, Jason Kidd, Lamar Odom, Detlef Shrempf...

The other group includes Jerry West, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson...

Oscar Robertson in the same sentence as Detlef and Lamar Odom. You lost me right there.

Oscar Robertson is a top 5 player ALL TIME. Better than Bird or Magic.

Big O
Wilt
Kareem
Jordan
Russell

... and from there the conversation begins.

AIRMAR72
06-13-2011, 07:04 PM
How about this, Lebron is Lebron

i agree the best all around SF since scottie but bron is not even close to pippen when comes overall ability and ball skill and defensive effort and finishing at the rim scottie was better but bron stats are better pip N mj NEVER took a nite off from playing man D or team D they both were lockdown defenders(like tony allen but better) and both guys take their game to another level in the playoffs

godolphins
06-13-2011, 07:06 PM
how many mid range jump shots did he shoot? if a guy like shaq went 1 or 1 from the free throw line for an entire year, woud that make him the best free throw shooter in the game for that yeay? .............. exactly, dont let numbers fool u, the fact is if u take the lane away from lebrick and make him a shooter, than he isnt that dominant player offensively people make him out to be
Um..actually every one on that list was qualified since they took enough shots. Look it up!!

godolphins
06-13-2011, 07:22 PM
Lebron James really needs to develop his midrange game. And so does Wade. I noticed that the Mavs would just collapse in the interior cause all Wade and James would do is penetrate. They seriously need to practice jump shooting. It gains the respect of the defense and also adds to your career (less contact).

And Lebron has many skills that Pippen had. Probi resembling Pippen more than Jordan in terms of abilities. However!, dont disrespect Lebron James and call him Pippen cause he is CLEARLY WAYYYY better than Pippen.



According to NBA.com's StatsCube, LeBron made 45 percent of his midrange jumpers last year, which is an incredibly efficient mark for a high-usage perimeter player. Paul Pierce made 44 percent of his mid-range jumpers. Kobe Bryant made 42 percent of his. Derrick Rose made 40 percent of his. Dwyane Wade, 40 percent. Kevin Durant, 42 percent. Carmelo Anthony, 42 percent.

Ray Allen shot 46 percent, barely edging out LeBron. Statistically speaking, out of all the high-usage perimeter players in the league, LeBron was the best midrange shooter not named Dirk Nowitzki. (Dirk shot 53 percent -- he's a freak.)
http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=6518731&pg=0

Bornknick73
06-13-2011, 07:34 PM
Again, I have seen Pippen play. You can stop making that argument already.

If that is how you want to debate, go back and look at the first 3 series of the playoffs. Has Scottie ever dominated a series like LeBron did against the Celtics? How about at the end of game 5 vs Chicago. Did Pippen ever do anything like that? Go back and look at the film.

I do remember Pippen choking against the Knicks with no Jordan and running to the bench crying when the play was called for Kukoc.

Thats very Lebron-esque

effen5
06-13-2011, 07:37 PM
I do remember Pippen choking against the Knicks with no Jordan and running to the bench crying when the play was called for Kukoc.

Thats very Lebron-esque

hahaha

MickeyMgl
06-13-2011, 07:38 PM
You lose any credibility when you put AI into the same sentence as West, Jordan, and Bryant? Some people.....:facepalm:

You lose any credibility in the subject of reading comprehension when you think I'm talking about quality as opposed to style. Or did you think I was equating Oscar Robertson and Detlef Shrempf? Back to school for you.

knicks4life33
06-13-2011, 07:38 PM
I heard lebron skipped college cuz he doesnt know how to deal with finals

MickeyMgl
06-13-2011, 07:42 PM
Oscar Robertson in the same sentence as Detlef and Lamar Odom. You lost me right there.

Oscar Robertson is a top 5 player ALL TIME. Better than Bird or Magic.

Big O
Wilt
Kareem
Jordan
Russell

... and from there the conversation begins.

This is a conversation about style of play. I listed not only great players, but a couple of players that are just good, but who approach the game the same way.

This is the same faulty thinking that had people comparing Lebron to Jordan in the first place. "He's good, so we must compare him to who we think is the best." Instead of recognizing that even though they're both good they play a different STYLE. Odom and Shrempf, like Magic and Robertson, contribute in a variety of ways. They don't/didn't do it anywhere NEAR as well as Magic and Oscar, but they approach the game the same way.

Iverson was not as good as West, Jordan, or Bryant, but he was an aggressive scorer like them.

Capiche?

Davidgta1
06-13-2011, 07:54 PM
I heard lebron skipped college cuz he doesnt know how to deal with finals

Hahahaha

KnicksR4Real
06-13-2011, 08:00 PM
hell ya

wizardman34
06-13-2011, 08:21 PM
I don't know why people keep comparing players to Jordan :shrug: Especially Lebron whose not even the same kind of player Jordan was, I could understand if you would compare Lebron to Magic Johnson or Oscar Robertson because his game is more similar to those guys but his game is not similar to Jordan at all. If anything Lebron's game is similar to Pippen.
I have to agree this is a great point made Michael Jordan is a bad comparison for LBJ, anyone who compares them two doesn't know basketball. LBJ is much more a more athletic Magic Johnson/Oscar Robertson...

LakersA's49ers
06-13-2011, 08:33 PM
ouch. lebron getting more hate :)

playaman
06-14-2011, 12:47 AM
I do remember Pippen choking against the Knicks with no Jordan and running to the bench crying when the play was called for Kukoc.

Thats very Lebron-esque

Woah!!! Pippen didn't choke against the Knicks! He carried the bulls that series and it was one bogus foul call (watch the replay) that cost the bulls the finals. As far as crying over the kucoc thing... He was mad because he demanded and wanted to take the final shot! That is NOT what LBJ is known for. IMO people are to busy comparing visible tangibles like size, speed, defensive skills, passing, shooting etc (good reasons to compare those things) BUT one thing they don't compare enough of is HEART! This is why Michael shouldnt be compared to LBJ, and as a matter of fact even PIPPEN had wayyyy more heart than LBJ... Pippen is also 6 for 6 in the finals and he always delivered when MJ and the bulls needed him. Being robin to batman is officially the second hardest job on the team and James couldn't even do that for wade when wade needed it. LBJ isn't even as "proven" as pippen yet let alone Michael Jordan! Pippen shut down guys like magic Johnson in the bulls FIRST trip to the finals! He was only a few years in the league when the bulls beat the lakers in the finals and he came to play when MJ and Chicago needed him! I watched almost every game pippen played as a pro, his biggest hurdle to fame was the fact he was always shadowed by MJ.... Make no mistakes pippen EARNED 6 rings almost as much as MJ. James will never have pippins stomach for success.... Heart wins championships, not regular season stats! Pippen and MJ batted 1000 in the finals!! How quickly we all forget..... No more James crap until he wins ANYTHING as the lead man or EVEN the role player.... NOTHING YET! He's no MJ, no Magic, no Pippen, not even a 5'8 barea lol

JoeyBoy718
06-14-2011, 03:18 AM
People act like Pippen was garbage because he didn't put up 30 a game. He was drafted by the Bulls a few years after Jordan had already been there, so he came in knowing it wasn't going to be his team. Had he been drafted to another team, he would've came in knowing it was his team and he would have played like it. Also, he was a humble player and he knew his role. LeBron doesn't know his role in this Miami team. Considering all those factors and the fact that Pippen still put up ridiculous numbers, the man is an all time great and would have probably been top 10 all time had he been the main guy his whole career. That being said, there's no way you can say LeBron is clearly better than Pippen. Sure, he has more potential than Pippen. Hell, he has more potential than Jordan. But I doubt he has the ability to reach that potential, like Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, etc had/have.

bulls leakage
06-14-2011, 05:08 PM
People act like Pippen was garbage because he didn't put up 30 a game. He was drafted by the Bulls a few years after Jordan had already been there, so he came in knowing it wasn't going to be his team. Had he been drafted to another team, he would've came in knowing it was his team and he would have played like it. Also, he was a humble player and he knew his role. LeBron doesn't know his role in this Miami team. Considering all those factors and the fact that Pippen still put up ridiculous numbers, the man is an all time great and would have probably been top 10 all time had he been the main guy his whole career. That being said, there's no way you can say LeBron is clearly better than Pippen. Sure, he has more potential than Pippen. Hell, he has more potential than Jordan. But I doubt he has the ability to reach that potential, like Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, etc had/have.

Come on... I'm a huge bulls fan and I love Pippen, but you are overrating him. His stats were great, no doubt. His stats weren't that much better without Jordan though. Pippen would not crack the top 10 all time if he was the main guy the whole time.

I will clearly say that LeBron is better than Pippen. With how you could play defense back in the day, given LeBron's size, strength, speed, and incredible athleticism, I think LeBron could be close to Pippen defensively. On offense it is no contest, LeBron is better than Pippen.

Durant is hype
06-14-2011, 06:20 PM
Lebron is Lebron./Thread

Not Pippen,not MJ,not Kobe.

Pippen'sBulls
06-14-2011, 06:32 PM
"He's the only guy you can legitimately say is right there with Michael,"
"Kobe actually has better shooting range than Michael. Now, Michael was more physical.
The rules when he played allowed the Knicks to maul him. But in the end, they're both
killers and the most incredible players of their eras."- Steve Kerr on Kobe

Lets not pick and choose what Steve Kerr quotes we want to listen too

TayPrince
06-14-2011, 06:34 PM
Lebron is better than Pippen. Noone is better than Jordan. PIppen simply wanted to emphasize his importance for the Bulls by discrediting Jordan. Fu** you Scottie, get a grip!

Stuckey#3
06-14-2011, 06:43 PM
lebron is statistically the 2nd best mid range shooter in the league. but those are just facts..

You can check stats all day but in the end there is only one that truly matters...
And LeChoke is 0-2.

papipapsmanny
06-14-2011, 06:53 PM
Stop saying he isn't the same kind of player... thats just getting around the fact that he isn't as good.

So Yeah he isn't the same kind of player as MJ because lebron isn't as good as jordan

Durant is hype
06-14-2011, 07:12 PM
You can check stats all day but in the end there is only one that truly matters...
And LeChoke is 0-2.

Team game is basketball :rolleyes:

LBJ DID PLAY POORLY! THERE HAPPY!

smith&wesson
06-14-2011, 07:16 PM
i agree with kerr.

lebrons a 3 pippen was a 3 jordan was a 2.

lebrons a defensive beast, pippen was defensive beast.

lebrons offense basically relies on his athleticism, jordans offense came from anywhere on the court and remained consistant even when he was older and less athletic.

jordan took over games offenively... and that was what he was greatest at. lebron can lock down almost anyone defensively but can disapear at times on offense. pippen was the same way.

truelly I think pippen compared lebron to jordan soo that ppl would think about it only to come to the conclusion that lebron is infact more like pippen. if pippen had came out and said lebron is like me ? every one would have said your an idiot. so he over praised them only for ppl to come to the conclusion on theyre own... just a theory.

knightstemplar
06-14-2011, 09:26 PM
Oscar Robertson
25.7 PPG 9.5 ASP 7.5 RPG

Magic Johnson
19.5 PPG 11.2 ASP 7.2 RPG

Michael Jordan
30.1 PPG 5.3 ASP 6.2 RPG

Lebron James
27.7 PPG 7.0 ASP 7.1 RPG

how about this stat

0

JPHX
06-14-2011, 09:32 PM
Send him to LA then. Kobe/Lebron might be the closest thing we see to Jordan/Pippen