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ChiSox219
06-13-2011, 03:19 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2011_finals.html

The link shows the composite stats for all six games.

From ESPN:


James struggled throughout the Finals, averaging 17.8 points, which was 8.9 fewer than his regular season average. That dropoff from the regular season to the Finals was the largest in NBA history, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.

marlinsfan24
06-13-2011, 04:39 PM
Dwyane Wade, even though he was on the losing team, may have had a legitimate case for MVP. Dirk deserved it though.

Hawkeye15
06-13-2011, 04:41 PM
and LeBron shot a good percentage from the field. I just couldn't believe he flat out refused to shoot for such large periods of time. Unreal Bron.

DoJoTheSlasher
06-13-2011, 04:42 PM
Dwyane Wade, even though he was on the losing team, may have had a legitimate case for MVP. Dirk deserved it though.

........... Did Wade have 2 game winners? Did Wade score 62 points in the 4th? Did Wade win 4 games and win 2 on the road?

marlinsfan24
06-13-2011, 04:47 PM
........... Did Wade have 2 game winners? Did Wade score 62 points in the 4th? Did Wade win 4 games and win 2 on the road?

I never said he should win. It was Dirk's. But look at the numbers, Wade had a serious case. http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp?league=00&season=42010&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=444&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=NBA%20Finals

I said it was Dirk's MVP. You need to calm down buddy.

Bruno
06-13-2011, 04:59 PM
Wade and James were abysmal from the free-throw line. They weren't as focused as they needed to be this series.

ChiSox219
06-13-2011, 05:00 PM
and LeBron shot a good percentage from the field. I just couldn't believe he flat out refused to shoot for such large periods of time. Unreal Bron.

.541 TS%, in large part because he couldnt get to the line and when he did, Lebron missed.

marlinsfan24
06-13-2011, 05:02 PM
Wade and James were abysmal from the free-throw line. They weren't as focused as they needed to be this series.

Wade's been a poor free throw shooter for a while now. He hasn't shot as well as he did since 06 in a while. Lebron was just bad. I was not surprised to see Wade shoot that poorly to be honest.

JordansBulls
06-13-2011, 05:11 PM
I still don't know what happened to Lebron here. I can understand if he were playing a team that was the defending champs and a lock down defensive team, but he was playing a team he probably wanted to play.

Bruno
06-13-2011, 05:21 PM
Wade's been a poor free throw shooter for a while now. He hasn't shot as well as he did since 06 in a while. Lebron was just bad. I was not surprised to see Wade shoot that poorly to be honest.

You've watched a lot more Heat games than I have, I didn't know it had become such an accepted thing- his mediocre FT shooting. Just a bummer for the Heat and Heat fans because most of these games were so close; every point matters.


I still don't know what happened to Lebron here. I can understand if he were playing a team that was the defending champs and a lock down defensive team, but he was playing a team he probably wanted to play.

Dallas was the 8th ranked defense for the 2011 season. Very good, but not dominant. Honestly, I don't get it either; head-scratcher. I think it was half in his head, half Dallas defense (who were very good in the playoffs). LBJ is still a pretty young dude; I think all the pressure just became too much. I expect this to fuel him, I think he'll dominate in next years playoffs.

Hawkeye15
06-13-2011, 05:22 PM
.541 TS%, in large part because he couldnt get to the line and when he did, Lebron missed.

The Heat's entire team shot free throws horrible last night.

marj987
06-13-2011, 05:30 PM
Wade and James were abysmal from the free-throw line. They weren't as focused as they needed to be this series.

I wonder how The Heat feels (Especially Wade) feels to be David Hasslehoffed?

JordansBulls
06-15-2011, 11:38 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2011_finals.html

Terry averaged 18.0 ppg and Lebron 17.8 ppg.

So 4 guys this series averaged more than Lebron.

Chronz
06-15-2011, 11:50 AM
Has anyone ever played this many minutes in a playoff run carrying the kind of load Bron has?

Someone want to explain to me how Bron can go from defending at an elite level all year, go from locking down Rose to not being able to contain Terry at certain junctures?


I think its time we enter into the discussion that LeBron James is mortal after all. Guy was done by this point, in many ways this was his hardest run in the playoffs.

Sly Guy
06-15-2011, 11:53 AM
Dwyane Wade, even though he was on the losing team, may have had a legitimate case for MVP. Dirk deserved it though.

I'll give you that, but it was never going to happen. There is no way Wade would get a finals MVP on a losing team in a series that didn't go 7. His numbers were great, but it's just not how it's done.

JordansBulls
06-15-2011, 11:57 AM
Has anyone ever played this many minutes in a playoff run carrying the kind of load Bron has?

Someone want to explain to me how Bron can go from defending at an elite level all year, go from locking down Rose to not being able to contain Terry at certain junctures?


I think its time we enter into the discussion that LeBron James is mortal after all. Guy was done by this point, in many ways this was his hardest run in the playoffs.

When did he lock down Rose? He played Rose for a few plays. Guarding him for an entire half would have worn him down.

BALLER R
06-15-2011, 11:57 AM
Has anyone ever played this many minutes in a playoff run carrying the kind of load Bron has?

Someone want to explain to me how Bron can go from defending at an elite level all year, go from locking down Rose to not being able to contain Terry at certain junctures?


I think its time we enter into the discussion that LeBron James is mortal after all. Guy was done by this point, in many ways this was his hardest run in the playoffs.

maybe your thinking lebron is a greater defender than he really is or he needs to really focus on this cardio so he can chase guys around all night. with rose he always had the ball but with terry hes always cutting and running off screens, two different things to defend

Chronz
06-15-2011, 12:16 PM
When did he lock down Rose? He played Rose for a few plays. Guarding him for an entire half would have worn him down.

Rose was pretty much locked down that entire series by the help defense provided mostly by James (unless you want to credit Bibby for his 1 on 1 D). But yes I never denied that he only played him when it mattered most, thats my point.

He LOCKED DOWN on D-Rose when he NEEDED TO. He had the ENERGY to carry the O AND D. He went from doing ALL THAT

To not being able to contain JET, again, whenever he was on him

Chronz
06-15-2011, 12:27 PM
maybe your thinking lebron is a greater defender than he really is or he needs to really focus on this cardio so he can chase guys around all night. with rose he always had the ball but with terry hes always cutting and running off screens, two different things to defend
Nah, Ive made the mistake of underrating Brons defensive impact before when I thought the Cavs would atleast be competent on that end, but the evidence towards Brons defensive superiority has become too staggering to ignore.


You might be right about Brons inability to fight through screens but I find it hilarious that you say he should work on his cardio without answering the question I put forth, if your taking such a stance then you should be able to list players who have played the minutes Bron did, whilst carrying the team on both ends.

Really though I always thought Bron struggled with screens because of his frame but when the Mavs were trying rub Terry off curls Bron/Wade were staying with him, atleast early on. I know they made some adjustments with attacking from the weakside after Miamis initial rotations but Bron wasnt even defending Terry 1 on 1 as well as he had either.

When I saw Terry take a hard dribble, pullup jumper on Bron I felt something wasnt right with Brons awareness. He usually crowds shooters who cant slash but he conceded the one shot Jason makes in his sleep. Overall every aspect of his defense was gone, he wasnt scrambling like before.

Chronz
06-15-2011, 07:50 PM
Excellent piece on Brons defensive let down

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/06/13/lebron-let-down-the-heat-on-defense-too/

Patriot Pride
06-15-2011, 10:52 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2011_finals.html

Terry averaged 18.0 ppg and Lebron 17.8 ppg.

So 4 guys this series averaged more than Lebron.

Terry came of the bench too. LeBron was even guarding Terry at points during the games and Terry scored on him... so much for LeBrons great defense.

FriedTofuz
06-15-2011, 11:13 PM
dwayne wade recorded the most blocks

MTar786
06-16-2011, 08:37 PM
Has anyone ever played this many minutes in a playoff run carrying the kind of load Bron has?

Someone want to explain to me how Bron can go from defending at an elite level all year, go from locking down Rose to not being able to contain Terry at certain junctures?


I think its time we enter into the discussion that LeBron James is mortal after all. Guy was done by this point, in many ways this was his hardest run in the playoffs.

his hardest run in the playoffs? not even close. last season and the season before that were both harder. 07 was harder.

philly
dead boston team
over rated bulls (1player team)
mavs

lebron 'shut down' rose in the 4th of those bulls games not because he could guard rose but because rose had no one to dish it to if he wanted to pass. lebron would guard rose with 12 seconds on the sot clock and rose would run an iso and be forced to shoot a bad shot. btw rose isnt a great one on one player as it is. he's just good at driving the lane.

lebrons defense was extremely over rated these playoffs. even by myself
his defense went from good in the bulls series to becoming his excuse in the finals. his defense on terry was good in game 1 and 3. although game 1 terry just played bad. so game 3 lol. his defense otherwise was below average. his excuse was he couldnt score because he had to play defense. Yet, his best offensive game in the finals came WITH his best defensive game too.

amos1er
06-16-2011, 08:53 PM
Lebron is overrated...always was and always will be. He is not a winner, he is a stat machine that is driven by greed rather than the will to win.

The "Lebron Myth" was created for people who hated Kobe and the Lakers franchise. Lebron gave them someone to root for while Kobe was dominating the league. This way all of the Kobe haters and Laker haters could have a reason to shovel money into David Sterns pockets too. David Stern is a brilliant business man...he fooled you all.

Chronz
06-16-2011, 08:55 PM
his hardest run in the playoffs? not even close. last season and the season before that were both harder. 07 was harder.
Thats impossible, he played less games and less minutes per game.


philly
dead boston team
over rated bulls (1player team)
mavs
Despite your compelling analysis Im not convinced its so easily laid out. Philly was a decent defensive team with the best perimeter defender in the league.

Boston had completely destroyed New York, your underestimating how close their series vs Miami really was, if not for clutch (LUCK) shooting in some tough situations that series could have gone the distance. Rondos injury won them a game but also deflated the team going forward.
Then you have Chicago, if you thought facing Thibs D was hard, try taking on its clone with more athletic defenders.
There was a recent piece examining the "closeness" of series, and the Boston/Chicago series rank well so Ill take the opinion of Dean O thanks.


lebron 'shut down' rose in the 4th of those bulls games not because he could guard rose but because rose had no one to dish it to if he wanted to pass. lebron would guard rose with 12 seconds on the sot clock and rose would run an iso and be forced to shoot a bad shot. btw rose isnt a great one on one player as it is. he's just good at driving the lane.

I disagree with everything you said, according to Synergy Rose was one of the most efficient players in Isolation, care to explain that away? Hes decent in the PnR but with Bron trailing the play its hard to find airspace for the individual ballhandler.


lebrons defense was extremely over rated these playoffs. even by myself
his defense went from good in the bulls series to becoming his excuse in the finals. his defense on terry was good in game 1 and 3. although game 1 terry just played bad. so game 3 lol. his defense otherwise was below average. his excuse was he couldnt score because he had to play defense. Yet, his best offensive game in the finals came WITH his best defensive game too.
Thats the point of my post, it was downright sad in the last few game of the Finals, thats why I feel he was gassed, its the hardest playoff run hes ever had. He was carrying the most minutes anyone I can ever remember anyone carrying. But his D in every other series was superb

MTar786
06-16-2011, 09:09 PM
Thats impossible, he played less games and less minutes per game.


Despite your compelling analysis Im not convinced its so easily laid out. Philly was a decent defensive team with the best perimeter defender in the league.

Boston had completely destroyed New York, your underestimating how close their series vs Miami really was, if not for clutch (LUCK) shooting in some tough situations that series could have gone the distance. Rondos injury won them a game but also deflated the team going forward.
Then you have Chicago, if you thought facing Thibs D was hard, try taking on its clone with more athletic defenders.
There was a recent piece examining the "closeness" of series, and the Boston/Chicago series rank well so Ill take the opinion of Dean O thanks.


I disagree with everything you said, according to Synergy Rose was one of the most efficient players in Isolation, care to explain that away? Hes decent in the PnR but with Bron trailing the play its hard to find airspace for the individual ballhandler.


Thats the point of my post, it was downright sad in the last few game of the Finals, thats why I feel he was gassed, its the hardest playoff run hes ever had. He was carrying the most minutes anyone I can ever remember anyone carrying. But his D in every other series was superb

you are right about the boston series. if it wasnt for rondos injury boston may have won.
i dont care about minutes played. ur supporting cast makes those minutes ALOT easier when u have wade and other ball handlers on the court to help. when you have other GO TO players other than your self. so no, this was not the hardest play off run for him. and if it was. then you should really think of how you rate him as a player or maybe question urself that maybe you're making an excuse for him? Ive seen much harder teams in the past than the sixers,bulls and even mavs. This was also the worst celtic team since those guys came together.
And my answer to ur rose question is a simple 'look at his fg percentage'.

ps. i dont care about new york. they became a worse team with the melo trade. boston sweeping them doesnt mean anything. they were TERRIBLE. they need to develop chemistry and get some role players first

Durant is hype
06-16-2011, 09:13 PM
Has anyone ever played this many minutes in a playoff run carrying the kind of load Bron has?

Someone want to explain to me how Bron can go from defending at an elite level all year, go from locking down Rose to not being able to contain Terry at certain junctures?


I think its time we enter into the discussion that LeBron James is mortal after all. Guy was done by this point, in many ways this was his hardest run in the playoffs.

Great point :clap:

gotoHcarolina52
06-16-2011, 09:30 PM
Has anyone ever played this many minutes in a playoff run carrying the kind of load Bron has?

Someone want to explain to me how Bron can go from defending at an elite level all year, go from locking down Rose to not being able to contain Terry at certain junctures?


I think its time we enter into the discussion that LeBron James is mortal after all. Guy was done by this point, in many ways this was his hardest run in the playoffs.

Esto

Chronz
06-16-2011, 09:50 PM
you are right about the boston series. if it wasnt for rondos injury boston may have won.
I doubt they would have won, but it would have gone further for sure.


i dont care about minutes played. ur supporting cast makes those minutes ALOT easier when u have wade and other ball handlers on the court to help. when you have other GO TO players other than your self. so no, this was not the hardest play off run for him.
We probably arent going to agree but Bron carried the Heat defensively to an extent exceeding that of his stay in Cleveland, so on that end alone my premise is sound. As for your theory about having it ALOT easier to have Wade and other ball handlers, well there isnt a shred of proof that says its any easier for Bron to play with someone whos own playing style clashes with his, in fact each of them plays better in every sense when the other isnt around. I understand him being able to play off of Wade and vice versa but the 2 dont work in perfect harmony yet.
Dont get me wrong, the 2 are so talented that they still represent the best 1-2 punch in the league.



and if it was. then you should really think of how you rate him as a player or maybe question urself that maybe you're making an excuse for him?
If given the choice between 2 narratives, Id rather believe the one that says Player A played an absurd amount of minutes at an absurdly high level that he burned out, rather than he suddenly forgot how to play defense or put in the effort.

Either way I dont see the point of using it as an excuse, he had a run to the Finals unlike many others, year 1 didnt result in a ring but I dont consider that a disaster. He still shoulders the blame for losing in the Finals, his play dropped off the most, but you still consider all the circumstances. I try to remember more than just who wins and who lost.


Ive seen much harder teams in the past than the sixers,bulls and even mavs. This was also the worst celtic team since those guys came together.
That would be a great point except Im comparing the entirety of a PLAYOFF RUN.


And my answer to ur rose question is a simple 'look at his fg percentage'.
LOL FAIL

You cant refute PPP efficiency in Isolation situations with raw FG%.

TRY AGAIN