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View Full Version : Where does LeBron rank in the NBA now?



NYSpirit1
06-13-2011, 01:27 AM
I think his stock significantly fell. How can he be argued being the best when he had another top 3 player on his team and another top 15 player and he didn't win a title? He didn't hit one big shot and averaged 17 points a game.

Kobe, Howard, Wade and Dirk have to be ahead of him.

Durant and Melo could be argued because they are clutch players, who will not pass the ball around at the end of the most important game of their careers. They'll take the big shots. And make them.

And don't say that LeBron got the Heat to the Finals. Put Melo, Durant, Kobe or Howard on the Heat instead of LeBron and they would have been there regardless.

Sixerlover
06-13-2011, 01:29 AM
:facepalm:

Cano4prez
06-13-2011, 01:30 AM
:facepalm:

:facepalm::facepalm:

Kashmir13579
06-13-2011, 01:30 AM
Until 'Melo, and Durant MAKE the finals there is no argument for them here. Its all hypothetical.

All Lebron had to do was stay in Cleveland or go to New York and he still would've been the man. He isn't any less of a player talent wise, he just has lost his identity late in games playing alongside Wade.

kArSoN RyDaH
06-13-2011, 01:31 AM
He's still up there. He just doesn't close. He sucks in the clutch. He can't close a game to save his life and he can't be relied upon when the team needs him.


But hey he is the best player in the game through the 1st 3 Quarters. And he's a king so who knows?

Hawkize31
06-13-2011, 01:32 AM
Still the best player on the planet.

And its not even close.

Mane
06-13-2011, 01:32 AM
He is the best. That's why he was in the finals in the first place. If any of those players were better, they would have the opportunity to "fail" like Lebron did while putting up better numbers than him throughout the season. Which they did not.

Cano4prez
06-13-2011, 01:33 AM
He's still up there. He just doesn't close. He sucks in the clutch. He can't close a game to save his life and he can't be relied upon when the team needs him.


But hey he is the best player in the game through the 1st 3 Quarters. And he's a king so who knows?

Letting one series cloud your judgement, impressive

MacFitz92
06-13-2011, 01:34 AM
I don't know how you could rank him over Wade. Doesn't make any sense after watching the Finals. Wade is in charge, he's the better closer, he's the "guy".

Sadds The Gr8
06-13-2011, 01:34 AM
Still the best player on the planet.

And its not even close.

false. he may be the best, but not by that wide of a margin...or else he woulda had a WAY bigger impact in the finals.

JCmasta
06-13-2011, 01:35 AM
Still the most talented player on the planet.

And its not even close.

I agree.

Jahari Kavi
06-13-2011, 01:35 AM
Still the best player on the planet.

And its not even close.
This

kArSoN RyDaH
06-13-2011, 01:35 AM
Letting one series cloud your judgement, impressive

It's the only series that mattered. The one that gets you a ring.


You can't deny this.

Il Mago50
06-13-2011, 01:35 AM
How is he not the best player in the league still...

Wade is the only guy that could be ranked ahead of him which is what I do but Lebron is still 1-2 in the ranking.

Kobe is tight rope walking top 5 right now, Dwight is in top 3, besides that not sure who else makes this list. Dirk is top 3-4 and no one else should be in discussion (Durant, etc.)

Sixerlover
06-13-2011, 01:36 AM
I don't know how you could rank him over Wade. Doesn't make any sense after watching the Finals. Wade is in charge, he's the better closer, he's the "guy".

Greatest impact does not equal best player. I'm sorry, but the best player in the league doesn't lose to the Atlanta Hawks in the first round of the playoffs in 6 games.

Jahari Kavi
06-13-2011, 01:36 AM
I don't know how you could rank him over Wade. Doesn't make any sense after watching the Finals. Wade is in charge, he's the better closer, he's the "guy".

through 82 games and the conference finals Lebron was better

Lim
06-13-2011, 01:37 AM
I don't know how you could rank him over Wade. Doesn't make any sense after watching the Finals. Wade is in charge, he's the better closer, he's the "guy".

wasnt that how it was meant to be from the beginning? wade is the #1 option, lebron does all the PG duties

kArSoN RyDaH
06-13-2011, 01:37 AM
Wade is clearly the better player on the team. Everyone on that team relies on Wade and it's not even close.


Erik Spoelstra tried to get LBJ going by taking BOTH Bosh and Wade out to let Lebron get going and he still couldn't do anything.

Sixerlover
06-13-2011, 01:37 AM
It's the only series that mattered. The one that gets you a ring.


You can't deny this.

Another misconception. So the conference finals didn't matter for Rose? The 2nd round didn't matter for Kobe? The 1st round didn't matter for Stat and Melo?

Il Mago50
06-13-2011, 01:38 AM
Unless Kobe somehow gets his legs back by spending the summer with the Suns training staff, his days in top 5 are numbered and he's there more on what he's done then what he is doing from here on out.

People drastically underestimate Wade and the intangibles he has that Lebron doesn't more then make up the narrow margin in skill-level that Lebron might have on him. Wade is #1 as a player, Lebron most skilled.

JB0B0
06-13-2011, 01:38 AM
He's still #1, unless his poor play continues into next season.

Cano4prez
06-13-2011, 01:38 AM
greatest impact does not equal best player. I'm sorry, but the best player in the league doesn't lose to the atlanta hawks in the first round of the playoffs in 6 games.

7

Il Mago50
06-13-2011, 01:39 AM
Greatest impact does not equal best player. I'm sorry, but the best player in the league doesn't lose to the Atlanta Hawks in the first round of the playoffs in 6 games.

When you literally have absolutely no help and when you can't get up when knocked down on your own power (he was destroyed physically at that point of season), I'd say that a loss to a young, athletic and talented team is reasonable.

LA_Raiders
06-13-2011, 01:39 AM
He is still top 5 IMO, but he is the most hated after his dumb post conference answers...

What an *******...

Ebbs
06-13-2011, 01:40 AM
:facepalm: Been so long since I used this.

Lebron is #1 it isn't close.

:facepalm: what in gods name gives the op the idea that Kobe is better than Lebron?

Lim
06-13-2011, 01:40 AM
He's still #1, unless his poor play continues into next season.

pretty much this. he sucked donkey balls in the finals, but it was just 6 games and ppl act like it was his whole career. dude is only 26

JCmasta
06-13-2011, 01:41 AM
My top 5 would be Dirk, Wade, Lebron, Howard, and Paul in some order.

Tragedy
06-13-2011, 01:43 AM
He's probably the most talented guy in the NBA.

But he's never won a title, so there are plenty of guys such as Wade that are ahead of him.

Sixerlover
06-13-2011, 01:45 AM
When you literally have absolutely no help and when you can't get up when knocked down on your own power (he was destroyed physically at that point of season), I'd say that a loss to a young, athletic and talented team is reasonable.

Lets just agree to disagree then. Dwight Howard is EASILY the best center the NBA has to offer by a mile, and a top 5 player in the league. But not the best. The best just can't get eliminated in the first round to me. In a series that wasn't even very close.

kArSoN RyDaH
06-13-2011, 01:45 AM
No series matters but the finals. Including kobes 2nd and roses 3rd.


These guys dont play to get in the playoffs they play to win championships!

Supa
06-13-2011, 01:48 AM
Still the best player on the planet.

And its not even close.

I agree he is the best player who average 3 points in the 4th quarters of NBA finals.

---

MacFitz92
06-13-2011, 01:50 AM
My top 5 would be Dirk, Wade, Lebron, Howard, and Paul in some order.

This is my top 5 as well.

I think LeBron might be the best overall talent, but not the best player.

I like what Dwight, Dirk, and Wade bring to the court more than LeBron. Part of that has to do with how much talent there is at the wing position. Wade and LeBron can go hand and hand, but I'm taking Wade because he's been there and done it, and shows up in the 4th quarter.

I understand all the points, but if you can't show up in the 4th consistently, you have to evaluate that in your rankings.

And to comment on the "LeBron is the best player in the planet barnone, not even close." comments, if that was true: He wouldn't lose to Dirk and co. in 6 when he very clearly has the two best teamates out of both teams (Bosh and Wade). And yes, I know a team isn't 3 people, but if he was that good, he'd be able to win handfully.

blastmasta26
06-13-2011, 01:51 AM
No series matters but the finals. Including kobes 2nd and roses 3rd.


These guys dont play to get in the playoffs they play to win championships!
Yeah but you have to win in the playoffs to get to the Finals.

LeBron's still the best player in the league, but it's evident that he is not the most successful (in terms of winning) player in the league.

TheRunKiller
06-13-2011, 01:52 AM
false. he may be the best, but not by that wide of a margin...or else he woulda had a WAY bigger impact in the finals.

This

packers12to88
06-13-2011, 01:52 AM
Oh my god. you made a thread like this earlier.

People are still living in the moment.

He is still the best damn player in the NBA. My god.

blastmasta26
06-13-2011, 01:53 AM
This is my top 5 as well.

I think LeBron might be the best overall talent, but not the best player.

I like what Dwight, Dirk, and Wade bring to the court more than LeBron. Part of that has to do with how much talent there is at the wing position. Wade and LeBron can go hand and hand, but I'm taking Wade because he's been there and done it, and shows up in the 4th quarter.

I understand all the points, but if you can't show up in the 4th consistently, you have to evaluate that in your rankings.

And to comment on the "LeBron is the best player in the planet barnone, not even close." comments, if that was true: He wouldn't lose to Dirk and co. in 6 when he very clearly has the two best teamates out of both teams (Bosh and Wade). And yes, I know a team isn't 3 people, but if he was that good, he'd be able to win handfully.
He is that good, LeBron certainly could have carried Miami to the title. But he doesn't have the killer instinct/drive/confidence/etc. to do so just yet. He was flustered in the Finals, uncharacteristically so, but had he played like he did in the Chicago and Boston series, Miami would have that trophy, not Dallas.

cutiepie80
06-13-2011, 01:55 AM
I think he is by far the best player in the league, just made a terrible decision to play.

I mean seriously, how embarrassig for those guys when they did the whole coming out party and proclaiming 7 rings. It's awesome to see them fail.

smokeosama
06-13-2011, 01:56 AM
Personally, I don't think he is the best on his own team.

MacFitz92
06-13-2011, 01:56 AM
He is that good, LeBron certainly could have carried Miami to the title. But he doesn't have the killer instinct/drive/confidence/etc. to do so just yet. He was flustered in the Finals, uncharacteristically so, but had he played like he did in the Chicago and Boston series, Miami would have that trophy, not Dallas.

Having a killer instinct in the Finals is a characteristic that you should be evaluating someone on.

This isn't a Physical Talent competition. He just lacks intangibles the others have.

DaBear
06-13-2011, 02:00 AM
LeBron is the best individual player meaning he will beat anyone one on one. LeBron is not the best team player. Not close to it. Therefore, he's not the best overall player.

RaidersLakers24
06-13-2011, 02:01 AM
People are still overrating his *** smh you kids should be ashamed!!

1. Kobe (will finally be healthy and well rested for first time since 08')
2.Wade/Dwight
4.Lebron
5.dirk/Paul/durant/rose


You don't like my list don't comment on it simple as that...

Sadds The Gr8
06-13-2011, 02:02 AM
People are still overrating his *** smh you kids should be ashamed!!

1. Kobe (will finally be healthy and well rested for first time since 08')
2.Wade/Dwight
4.Lebron
5.Paul/durant/rose


You don't like my list don't comment on it simply as that...

i don't like your list.

Ebbs
06-13-2011, 02:05 AM
People are still overrating his *** smh you kids should be ashamed!!

1. Kobe (will finally be healthy and well rested for first time since 08')
2.Wade/Dwight
4.Lebron
5.dirk/Paul/durant/rose


You don't like my list don't comment on it simple as that...

You're homerism knows no bounds.

cutiepie80
06-13-2011, 02:05 AM
Rose will end up being the best player in the NBA within 3 years and that's a fact. 22 years old right now.

RaidersLakers24
06-13-2011, 02:06 AM
i don't like your list.

I see what you did there :)

Jenceman
06-13-2011, 02:08 AM
He's still the best player, at least the most talented. Sure, he choked hard in the finals, but that's only 6 games.

shep33
06-13-2011, 02:09 AM
Still the best player on the planet.

And its not even close.

Dwight is better IMO.

Wrigheyes4MVP
06-13-2011, 02:12 AM
I have a hard time saying Lebron James is better than Dirk Nowitzki right now.

Dirk completely outplayed King James, and as a result, the Mavericks beat the Heat in the NBA finals.

It really is that simple for me.

PLAYERS FAN
06-13-2011, 02:14 AM
Personally, I don't think he is the best on his own team.

1x

IndiansFan337
06-13-2011, 02:16 AM
He's still the best player in the NBA. The best player does not always win the Finals. Tonight did not change that status.

GiantsSwaGG
06-13-2011, 02:18 AM
Still the best player on the planet.

And its not even close.

:facepalm:

cutiepie80
06-13-2011, 02:18 AM
If anyone thinks that Wade OR LBJ is better them Dirk they need to catch upon some basketball. Dirk is one of the best shooters of all time, ALL TIME!!!!

knickfan33
06-13-2011, 02:26 AM
Among elite number 2's..... has proven he is not a one... not an alltime great because he cant carry a team in the playoffs, and has the tendencie to dissapear in big games....

and he is a 6'10" player who is closing in on 30.... goodbye knees.... just failed his best chance...

if im a cav fan who watched him play this finals, im glad hes gone.

PatsSoxKnicks
06-13-2011, 02:27 AM
So let me get this straight, he was being praised for his clutch play in the Chicago and Boston series and now he's not clutch? Which is it?

Everyone is so "in the moment". Now Dirk is apparently the best player in the NBA because the Mavs won the title. And Lebron isn't clutch now because he failed against the Mavs. Apparently, everything he did in the Chicago and Boston series' gets wiped away? What I find ironic is that Dirk dealt with these same issues in 2006. Dirk in 06 was no less clutch then he is now and Lebron post Mavs series is no less clutch then he was pre Mavs series.

I just don't get it. How can the best player change every week? Either he was the best player when he was winning those series against the Bulls and Celts and he still is now OR he wasn't the best player in those series and he still isn't now.

jetsforever
06-13-2011, 02:27 AM
I still like Kobe more as a complete player but thats just me holding out hope because I support KB.

In all likeliness, he is the best in the game right now

setman2000
06-13-2011, 02:28 AM
Still the best player on the planet.

And its not even close.

.......except when it matters the most. And it's not even close.

setman2000
06-13-2011, 02:32 AM
I will say James passing to Chalmers over and over and over because he was to afraid to shoot the rock was the best Superstar to Nobody combo in NBA finals history.

PatsSoxKnicks
06-13-2011, 02:32 AM
I still like Kobe more as a complete player but thats just me holding out hope because I support KB.

In all likeliness, he is the best in the game right now

Complete player? I don't think Kobe has ever been a more complete player then Lebron. Sure, maybe he used to be a better scorer. But passing? rebounding? Defense? Lebron has been better in those 3 areas for pretty much their entire career. I really don't see how you could argue that either. Could you honestly tell me that Kobe was ever a better passer then Lebron? Better rebounder?

Kevj77
06-13-2011, 02:33 AM
Lebron is without a doubt the most talented player. That isn't the same thing as the best. James seems to lack the intangibles that drive truely great players. He disappears at the most important moments when great players step up.

setman2000
06-13-2011, 02:34 AM
He's still the best player, at least the most talented. Sure, he choked hard in the finals, but that's only 6 games.

.....and it's ONLY THE FINALS! TWICE!

setman2000
06-13-2011, 02:36 AM
Lebron is without a doubt the most talented player. That isn't the same thing as the best. James seems to lack the intangibles that drive truely great players. He disappears at the most important moments when great players step up.

This says it all!

Ace23
06-13-2011, 02:39 AM
Still the best player on the planet.

And its not even close.

He's the best player on the planet until that's put to the test. And then...he's mediocre at best and absolutely invisible at worst.

That is the fundamental difference between LeBron and Kobe. The former shrinks when the spotlight is on him, and the latter embraces it. Kobe has done in the last four years more than LeBron has done over his entire career. You're right, it isn't even close. Right now, the score is 5-0 Kobe.

BKdoubleStacker
06-13-2011, 02:39 AM
Complete player? I don't think Kobe has ever been a more complete player then Lebron. Sure, maybe he used to be a better scorer. But passing? rebounding? Defense? Lebron has been better in those 3 areas for pretty much their entire career. I really don't see how you could argue that either. Could you honestly tell me that Kobe was ever a better passer then Lebron? Better rebounder?

lebron is 6'9 SF, of course he is going to get more rebounds. I guess dwight is better than him because he averages more rebounds eh? :rolleyes:

and sure lebron is the better player now, but kobe was a far better defender in his prime.

RaidersLakers24
06-13-2011, 02:39 AM
Complete player? I don't think Kobe has ever been a more complete player then Lebron. Sure, maybe he used to be a better scorer. But passing? rebounding? Defense? Lebron has been better in those 3 areas for pretty much their entire career. I really don't see how you could argue that either. Could you honestly tell me that Kobe was ever a better passer then Lebron? Better rebounder?

Passing Kobe is a skilled passer but the triangle really doesn't give you the best chances at raising those assist numbers(especially if you don't have people scoring the basketball) rebounder ehh lebrons bigger and taller so that's obvious but defender your joking right? Up until this season Kobe has always been a great defender! Lebron not so much, did yousee the way barrea and Terry drove past him??? Don't pull things out of your *** dude!

NYKnicksAllDay
06-13-2011, 02:41 AM
LeBron has the most talent of any player in the league, but that doesn't necessarily make him the best player.

Ace23
06-13-2011, 02:47 AM
LeBron has the most talent of any player in the league, but that doesn't necessarily make him the best player.

So true.

AIRMAR72
06-13-2011, 03:09 AM
People are still overrating his *** smh you kids should be ashamed!!

1. Kobe (will finally be healthy and well rested for first time since 08')
2.Wade/Dwight
4.Lebron
5.dirk/Paul/durant/rose


You don't like my list don't comment on it simple as that...

kobe is just about FINISH you guys need to stop dreaming about kobe off season rest and leg workout dude just simply has too many mileage to play at a high level for 82games wade is the best player in the league wade can do the things that bron could do but bron cant do the things that wade does like slicing N dicing thru the defense in a halfecourt set wade has better overall dribbling skill better at creating his own shot in mid air kobe post game is better than both guys but kobe misses more due to his poor WILL compare to wade N BRON

Korman12
06-13-2011, 03:15 AM
There's too many categories to place the league's best overall players in. There's the actual talent we see on the court, the winning, team play, all that crap.

Talent-wise, he's the best. It's pretty hard to argue against it, even with all the adamant dislike of him. At this stage in his career, he's just not a winner though.

He's the best player without a ring I think we've ever seen, that's pretty clear.

DROSE4MVP
06-13-2011, 03:28 AM
Talent wise? You're damn right... LeBron is the most talented player on the face of the earth, but that doesn't mean your the best player in the league. LeBron, in my opinion, is not the best player in the league. I'm sorry, but you would never see Kobe or Dirk (which he proved with his great 4th quarter numbers) disappear in the fourth quarter in the NBA Finals, especially Kobe.

I would take Kobe, Dirk and DH12 over LeBron right now, with Wade close behind him. If LeBron was clutch like he was in the Boston and Chicago series, this thread wouldn't exist as Miami would've of won the NBA Championship. But they didn't.

LeBron was really disappointing in these Finals, but I believe he needs to learn to play off the ball. He really hasn't learn how to as he's never done it before as he was always the man in Cleveland. And another thing... Chris Bosh should've of gotten the ball the whole fourth quarter. The man was on fire, but no one wanted to give him the ball. People forget how dominant Bosh is and people just forget about him. Feel real bad for him, honestly...

towlsmoke420
06-13-2011, 03:30 AM
lebron is the best player that ever touched a basketball.....in his head

RaidersLakers24
06-13-2011, 03:44 AM
kobe is just about FINISH you guys need to stop dreaming about kobe off season rest and leg workout dude just simply has too many mileage to play at a high level for 82games wade is the best player in the league wade can do the things that bron could do but bron cant do the things that wade does like slicing N dicing thru the defense in a halfecourt set wade has better overall dribbling skill better at creating his own shot in mid air kobe post game is better than both guys but kobe misses more due to his poor WILL compare to wade N BRON

Lol Kobe>ball handler then wade
Kobe>at creating his own jumpshot
Kobes will to win > lebrons and wades combined stop hating we all know u hate Kobe but some of the things you say are ridiculous

EaglePride615
06-13-2011, 03:54 AM
i wouldnt go that far. he was the closer in the first 3 series. like the chicago series was lebrons series, the finals was wades series. and he put up great numbers. they just faced a better team.

waveycrockett
06-13-2011, 04:18 AM
Lol Kobe>ball handler then wade
Kobe>at creating his own jumpshot
Kobes will to win > lebrons and wades combined stop hating we all know u hate Kobe but some of the things you say are ridiculous

Where was his will to win when they got swept by the Mavs?

barreleffact
06-13-2011, 04:33 AM
If he was still the best in your mind after quitting last year, how could he not be the best after quitting this year?

RaidersLakers24
06-13-2011, 04:58 AM
Where was his will to win when they got swept by the Mavs?

Let me start off by saying he wasn't gonna win by himself I mean gasol was getting totally dominated by scrubs I mean literally Lamar was gone artest gone fish is done bench was no existent drew was the only one really trying... Secondly he was injured from his knee and ankles, but hey don't take my word for it that Kobe will to win and competitive fire is > then both wade and lebrons just as 90% of posters here,I'm sure they'll agree with me

Sportfan
06-13-2011, 07:47 AM
Lebro HAS made it to the finals before without the big 3 though. Wade and Kobe are the only ones on that list that have been there, and Kobe's always had a top big man on his side.

I think Wade has a case for top player in the game. And obviously Dirk. My top 5 now is

Lebron
Wade
Dwight
Dirk
Kobe

yes, the heat have the 2 best players in the league

sventhedog
06-13-2011, 07:49 AM
are you counting 4th quarters in this ranking?

jockrider
06-13-2011, 08:29 AM
wade,dirk,lebron,dwight interchangeable at this point no one else is even close.

jockrider
06-13-2011, 08:31 AM
Let me start off by saying he wasn't gonna win by himself I mean gasol was getting totally dominated by scrubs I mean literally Lamar was gone artest gone fish is done bench was no existent drew was the only one really trying... Secondly he was injured from his knee and ankles, but hey don't take my word for it that Kobe will to win and competitive fire is > then both wade and lebrons just as 90% of posters here,I'm sure they'll agree with me

excuses he got spanked..

Hawkeye15
06-13-2011, 08:53 AM
I will take a 300 game sample size over a 6 game sample size.

Bron is the best player in the world until proven otherwise. One subpar series (unfortunately for him it was the finals), doesn't change the fact that he has been the best player in the NBA for 3 years.

Teeboy1487
06-13-2011, 08:54 AM
He is garbage. He can't shoot, he is not a smart basketball player, and he is not a dominant player. The best player in the league is Dwight Howard. I'm going to continue to say this. If you don't agree, well you can stick it. Dwight Howard is the best player in the game bar none. Lebron is overrated. He is a rich man's Andre Iguodala.

m26555
06-13-2011, 08:55 AM
Still the best player on the planet.

And its not even close.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Spoken like a true homer.

Dirk is the best player in the league right now. You simply CANNOT make a legitimate argument for LeBron over Dirk after that chokejob of a series he just had.

JayW_1023
06-13-2011, 08:58 AM
Passing Kobe is a skilled passer but the triangle really doesn't give you the best chances at raising those assist numbers(especially if you don't have people scoring the basketball) rebounder ehh lebrons bigger and taller so that's obvious but defender your joking right? Up until this season Kobe has always been a great defender! Lebron not so much, did yousee the way barrea and Terry drove past him??? Don't pull things out of your *** dude!

I still think Kobes all defensive team selection this year was bollocks. Tony Allen is probably the best on the ball defender in the league.

sventhedog
06-13-2011, 09:00 AM
According to the Elias Sports Bureau, the 8.9 points per game differential is the largest dropoff from the regular season to the NBA Finals in NBA history.

He finished with a 17.8 scoring average for the series, 8.9 points worse than what he averaged during the regular season (26.7).

the nba needs to reformat the league. make all games only 3 quarters and remove the finals.

m26555
06-13-2011, 09:01 AM
According to the Elias Sports Bureau, the 8.9 points per game differential is the largest dropoff from the regular season to the NBA Finals in NBA history.

He finished with a 17.8 scoring average for the series, 8.9 points worse than what he averaged during the regular season (26.7).

the nba needs to reformat the league. make all games only 3 quarters and remove the finals.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Classic.

Get ready for the LeBron stans to try and justify this one, too. OH, HE DOESN'T HAVE HELP! OH, IT'S A SMALL SAMPLE SIZE! OH, HE HAD A GOOD CLOSEOUT GAME AGAINST BOSTON!

sager729
06-13-2011, 09:03 AM
Lebron James is still just an immature player and person. Still doesn't have what it takes to win a NBA Finals. That can change but he has to prove it.

Mile High Champ
06-13-2011, 09:05 AM
I am taking Dirk as the best player in the league. Yes Lebron had a sensational season but I cannot ignore what I just witnessed in the NBA finals. Lebron became timid when his team needed him to shine most. He passed up good shots, fell in love his jump shot and to be honest made next to no effort in an attempt to take over the series. Lebron is beyond talented but I am putting Dirk ahead of him.

m26555
06-13-2011, 09:16 AM
I am taking Dirk as the best player in the league. Yes Lebron had a sensational season but I cannot ignore what I just witnessed in the NBA finals. Lebron became timid when his team needed him to shine most. He passed up good shots, fell in love his jump shot and to be honest made next to no effort in an attempt to take over the series. Lebron is beyond talented but I am putting Dirk ahead of him.
Dirk proved it last night when he was struggling the ENTIRE game, but then when the fourth quarter rolled around, he stepped up big. That's what the best player in the NBA does. They step up with the game on the line no matter what.

rapjuicer06
06-13-2011, 09:18 AM
First thing I will say is I dislike Lebron very, very much. But he's still top 3 in the NBA. I've always thought Dwight was better, and still do. Dirk on the other hand, has made me rethink how good he is. He's in my top three as well. The thing that I see, and saw before, is Lebron is not a team player. He doesn't know how to be one. He needs to be the only star on a team and have roll players around him. He needs another great player, no doubt, but he can't have another (ball handler (dwayne wade)) superstar player. If it was Lebron and Bosh, they would have won the title. If it was Wade and Bosh, they would have won the title. Lebron and Wade do NOT compliment each other at all. It's like having steak as an appetizer, before you have a burger and fries.

AnalyzeNShoot
06-13-2011, 09:21 AM
Mike James >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lebron James

ThePooH_1_
06-13-2011, 09:21 AM
Hes still a top 5 player right now BUT finally the Lebron James - MICHAEL JORDAN discussion ends... James is good but not even an top 5 GOAT player couse in crunch time he's not there for his team, but that is exactly what makes a GOAT.

marcanthony01
06-13-2011, 09:31 AM
People keep saying we're living in the moment, by not saying Lebron is the best player, like he hasn't took that sad walk off the court for the last 8 seasons.

He is not the best player on his team, how is he the best player in the league?

And if we shouldnt live in the moment with Lebron, dont live in the moment with Kobe because of one down season, losing to the NBA champs

jockrider
06-13-2011, 09:35 AM
People keep saying we're living in the moment, by not saying Lebron is the best player, like he hasn't took that sad walk off the court for the last 8 seasons.

He is not the best player on his team, how is he the best player in the league?

And if we shouldnt live in the moment with Lebron, dont live in the moment with Kobe because of one down season, losing to the NBA champs

kobe isn't even top 5 anymore not even close to being the best.

jiggin
06-13-2011, 09:38 AM
same place he ranked yesterday...still one of the best in the league.

ne3xchamps
06-13-2011, 09:40 AM
He's still up there. He just doesn't close. He sucks in the clutch. He can't close a game to save his life and he can't be relied upon when the team needs him.


But hey he is the best player in the game through the 1st 3 Quarters. And he's a king so who knows?

this.

Awesome through 3 quarters. The 4th on the other hand, poof gone like a cockroach when you turn on the lights.

SteBO
06-13-2011, 09:44 AM
LeBron is still one of the best players in the league, but even as a Heat fan, it's very hard to label him #1 in the league after these Finals. He has a lot of proving to do, that's for sure.

MagicHero3
06-13-2011, 09:49 AM
i feel like people over-rate him when it comes to his bball IQ.
I feel like physically, hes the most gifted athlete (besides dwight) in the NBA right now.
For his height and size, hes able to get to the hoop and yam it on ppl.
He can hit the jump shot very well, and knocks down the three on occasion.
He gets boards, assists...he dominates.
Its gotta be his decision making thats holding him back from his full potential.
He COULD be the best to ever play, he has the talent, but i just dont think he has the proper court smarts yet. Otherwise, he'd be wearing a couple rings already.
This is just my opinion though. not tryin to hate.

Crackadalic
06-13-2011, 10:05 AM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Spoken like a true homer.

Dirk is the best player in the league right now. You simply CANNOT make a legitimate argument for LeBron over Dirk after that chokejob of a series he just had.

Dirk is the best in the league? :facepalm: Prisoner of the moment. Thats like saying Paul Pierce was the best player after he won finals mvp. I remember people screaming out that he was.

He's still the best overall player in the league right now. He's just not clutch when it counts. Give me kobe, dirk, d-wade, melo in that category

Sly Guy
06-13-2011, 10:06 AM
LeBron? Right after Mike James for GOAT.

AIRMAR72
06-13-2011, 10:10 AM
did guys see kobe playoff shooting percent during the game simply horrible along with bron who edge em by one point

kartyea
06-13-2011, 10:22 AM
What Lebron is, is one of the most physically gifted player ever in the league. Size, speed, and strength is unmatched but heart, will, and killer instinct he lacks. He's definitely a top 10 player maybe even top 5 in todays NBA. Definitely not in Kobes stratosphere though, and not the best player on his team.

jockrider
06-13-2011, 10:23 AM
What Lebron is, is one of the most physically gifted player ever in the league. Size, speed, and strength is unmatched but heart, will, and killer instinct he lacks. He's definitely a top 10 player maybe even top 5 in todays NBA. Definitely not in Kobes stratosphere though, and not the best player on his team.

kobe?? lol

jockrider
06-13-2011, 10:25 AM
Dirk is the best in the league? :facepalm: Prisoner of the moment. Thats like saying Paul Pierce was the best player after he won finals mvp. I remember people screaming out that he was.

He's still the best overall player in the league right now. He's just not clutch when it counts. Give me kobe, dirk, d-wade, melo in that category

how do you know mello could handle the nba finals better than lebron?

ne3xchamps
06-13-2011, 10:30 AM
Dirk is the best in the league? :facepalm: Prisoner of the moment. Thats like saying Paul Pierce was the best player after he won finals mvp. I remember people screaming out that he was.

He's still the best overall player in the league right now. He's just not clutch when it counts. Give me kobe, dirk, d-wade, melo in that category

I will give you 3 out of the 4 you mentioned. Melo hasn't proved **** yet being clutch because he hasn't even made it to the finals.

Snakeyestx
06-13-2011, 10:30 AM
He's good, you can't deny that, but he needs to grow up a little more before he really shows the fans how good he is.

I said this on another thread, and took 'little' heat for it suprisingly enough. This loss was almost necessary for the Heat just because it will seriously make them grow from this. You had 3 titanic ego's on one roster, and the oldest guy on the roster wasn't a starter or a team leader (Juwon Howard). The drive home must have been very somber, but every single guy on that team took a good, hard look inside each of themselves. They're going to be filled with a resolve this entire offseason to get back to the grand stage and I believe there's going to be a quiet determination in every one of them that'll really change the image of that team next season.

They're going to be a serious force next season, no doubt about it.

jockrider
06-13-2011, 10:34 AM
I will give you 3 out of the 4 you mentioned. Melo hasn't proved **** yet being clutch because he hasn't even made it to the finals.

you see him in game 2 vs celtics? had a great game but was too tired to foul with time ticking down lol.

Kinkotheclown
06-13-2011, 10:43 AM
Personally, I don't think he is the best on his own team.

I agree. everyone overlooks Bosh and awesome a talent he is. The heat would be nowhere without him.....

:laugh:

But i do agree. Wade is the man. LBJ is stronger and can take control of a game with his physical presence but one shot can get wade into a groove like very few. Wade gets less afraid to make a mistake while james becomes increasingly so in those huge moments because of the expectation everyone has of him and that he has of himself.
Wade can take a game like this over by sheer will. Which James can't...yet. Whether he figures is out and fully lives up to his potential will only be known in 10 years.
And whether we like it or not, rings are the thing. I do think james rep took a hit with this series loss because of his performance.

RaidersLakers24
06-13-2011, 10:45 AM
excuses he got spanked..

Really if that's the case then Lebron choked homie he cant win on the big stage how can he be the best player with such pathetic performances on the biggest stage of them all! Lebron cho cho cho choked!! He's the 4th best player in my eyes, I never had him (stat whore) #1

RaidersLakers24
06-13-2011, 10:51 AM
kobe?? lol

Hey dude not everyone is blinded by Lebron you know there are better players and Kobe had a good regular season injuries just hurt him this year, but I'll bet you my account Kobe will average about 26-27 ppg 6 reb and 6-7 Ast next year!! Wanna bet??

jockrider
06-13-2011, 10:53 AM
Really if that's the case then Lebron choked homie he cant win on the big stage how can he be the best player with such pathetic performances on the biggest stage of them all! Lebron cho cho cho choked!! He's the 4th best player in my eyes, I never had him (stat whore) #1

he choked still made it farther than kobe,rose,durant,dwight, dirk and wade are the only ones arguable right now so i would say 3rd at worst.

NYK|NYY
06-13-2011, 10:56 AM
Lebron is still the most talented player, but he needs to take a hit in terms of rankings.

BigBlueCrew
06-13-2011, 11:01 AM
No-way is Lebron the best in the league. He's been on the short side of the NBA finals multiple times now. Everyone excused it in Cleveland cuz we thought he didnt have the pieces. How many times are you guys gonna watch Lebron James fail and follow him like blind sheeple?

Caution1011
06-13-2011, 11:02 AM
Lebron will take a hit for his performance in these finals, but he is still the most talented player in the league.

ManRam
06-13-2011, 11:03 AM
He isn't any worse of a player than he was before.

The only player you can argue is better is Dirk or Wade. The rest of the guys didn't get any further than he did. Rose stunk all playoffs long. Durant was solid, but he was further away from beating Dallas than the Heat. Kobe is way out of the picture now. Dwight? Maybe. LeBron had a really good first three rounds...really, really good. He played very passively and poorly in the Finals. The whole team did in game 6. It wasn't just him this time (it was just him a few other games). He deserves a lot of blame, but he's still the best player in the game. One stretch of 6 games (six games that no other superstar not named Dirk or Wade made it to) doesn't change that fact in my opinion.

He does have more proving to do. Just when we thought he was an elite closer again, he has a bad stretch and POOF! It's all forgotten.

At worst he's top 3. He's still the best player in my books. Dirk could supplant him, but Dirk plays no defense. Dirk had a terrible game for the first 3 quarters but his team picked him up. A lot like Kobe's last Finals close out game where he shot 6-24 and still won. He was the better player for the duration of The Finals, without a doubt.


A lot of you are saying "No way!". Yet, fail to name another player...

Swashcuff
06-13-2011, 11:07 AM
He isn't any worse of a player than he was before.

The only player you can argue is better is Dirk or Wade. The rest of the guys didn't get any further than he did. Rose stunk all playoffs long. Durant was solid, but he was further away from beating Dallas than the Heat. Kobe is way out of the picture now. Dwight? Maybe. LeBron had a really good first three rounds...really, really good. He played very passively and poorly in the Finals. The whole team did in game 6. It wasn't just him this time (it was just him a few other games). He deserves a lot of blame, but he's still the best player in the game. One stretch of 6 games (six games that no other superstar not named Dirk or Wade made it to) doesn't change that fact in my opinion.

He does have more proving to do. Just when we thought he was an elite closer again, he has a bad stretch and POOF! It's all forgotten.

At worst he's top 3. He's still the best player in my books. Dirk could supplant him, but Dirk plays no defense. Dirk had a terrible game for the first 3 quarters but his team picked him up. A lot like Kobe's last Finals close out game where he shot 6-24 and still won. He was the better player for the duration of The Finals, without a doubt.


A lot of you are saying "No way!". Yet, fail to name another player...

Really isn't much to be said other than this...

MagicHero3
06-13-2011, 11:07 AM
Lebron will take a hit for his performance in these finals, but he is still the most talented player in the league.

sounds like denial

most gifted athlete- yes

most talented- maybe, but not in the brain. he doesnt have good bball IQ when it comes down to it.

Swashcuff
06-13-2011, 11:13 AM
sounds like denial

most gifted athlete- yes

most talented- maybe, but not in the brain. he doesnt have good bball IQ when it comes down to it.

And had his jumpers fall as they did against Chicago would you still be saying this?

Everyone raved at how high his bball IQ was against the Bulls now you're saying he doesn't have a good one? Interesting.

IMO he doesn't have the greatest IQ out there but he is a smart player (did NOT show that very well in these finals though) but look how one series can change people's outlook on a player.

Da Knicks
06-13-2011, 11:14 AM
Let me start off by saying he wasn't gonna win by himself I mean gasol was getting totally dominated by scrubs I mean literally Lamar was gone artest gone fish is done bench was no existent drew was the only one really trying... Secondly he was injured from his knee and ankles, but hey don't take my word for it that Kobe will to win and competitive fire is > then both wade and lebrons just as 90% of posters here,I'm sure they'll agree with me

cry me a river :cry: kobe is done!!!:)

THE GIPPER
06-13-2011, 11:16 AM
Still the best player on the planet.

And its not even close.

this. its just a messed up offense they're running in miami.

wjmoffatt
06-13-2011, 11:18 AM
1.) Howard
2.) Wade
3.) Dirk
4.) CP3
5.) Queen James
6.) Durant
7.) Rose
8.) Mamba (not what he once was
9.) Amare
10.) Aldride/Melo/D12/Westbrook

ALS5
06-13-2011, 11:19 AM
Yes Labron is a great player but you can't be in with the names of the greats who knows how to take a team to the promise land! Jordan, Kobe, Bird, Magic, etc. The only thing Labron has proven so far with his greatness is that he can't be great in championship games when it really counts!

Labron can take the ball and do what ever he wants with it to anybody but he can't do that in those important championship games. He choked in Cleavland and didn't make the finals and He choked in Miami during the finals. Not a good look if you want to be great!

BigBlueCrew
06-13-2011, 11:20 AM
He isn't any worse of a player than he was before.

The only player you can argue is better is Dirk or Wade. The rest of the guys didn't get any further than he did. Rose stunk all playoffs long. Durant was solid, but he was further away from beating Dallas than the Heat. Kobe is way out of the picture now. Dwight? Maybe. LeBron had a really good first three rounds...really, really good. He played very passively and poorly in the Finals. The whole team did in game 6. It wasn't just him this time (it was just him a few other games). He deserves a lot of blame, but he's still the best player in the game. One stretch of 6 games (six games that no other superstar not named Dirk or Wade made it to) doesn't change that fact in my opinion.

He does have more proving to do. Just when we thought he was an elite closer again, he has a bad stretch and POOF! It's all forgotten.

At worst he's top 3. He's still the best player in my books. Dirk could supplant him, but Dirk plays no defense. Dirk had a terrible game for the first 3 quarters but his team picked him up. A lot like Kobe's last Finals close out game where he shot 6-24 and still won. He was the better player for the duration of The Finals, without a doubt.


A lot of you are saying "No way!". Yet, fail to name another player...

Why should we waste our energies in naming another player? You have listed every single player in the playoffs and shot them down for some reason or the other. Yet for Lebron James who had 1 of the top ten player in NBA (Wade) and another of the top twenty (approximation) in Bosh and still couldnt close the deal. This is what Lebron apologists continue to do day in and day out.

sb123
06-13-2011, 11:20 AM
Lebron will take a hit for his performance in these finals, but he is still the most talented player in the league.

Not if talent == BB skill sets and drive to win.

This story line of LeBron being the most talented really needs to stop. He simply lacks the interior and mid-range game to be put in this conversation.

jockrider
06-13-2011, 11:21 AM
cry me a river :cry: kobe is done!!!:)

agreed.

Swashcuff
06-13-2011, 11:21 AM
1.) Howard
2.) Wade
3.) Dirk
4.) CP3
5.) Queen James
6.) Durant
7.) Rose
8.) Mamba (not what he once was
9.) Amare
10.) Aldride/Melo/D12/Westbrook

Interesting

Dwight at 1 and 10 AND the Queen is now at #5. Interesting

billyocean15
06-13-2011, 11:27 AM
lebron being scared of the moment/terrified to shoot the ball just proves how great kobe and jordan are

akagiredsuns
06-13-2011, 11:27 AM
Wow are the Homer Simpsons out in full force here. LeBron is a Top 5 at BEST. When he can learn to hit the big jumper and take over a game, which he could still do even with Wade, then I'll put him up there alongside the greats like, Jordan, Kobe, Bird & Magic. Please stop making excuses for LeBron. It is pathetic the way people sweat this guy's nuts and after 8 seasons he still FELL SHORT with Bosh as his big and one of the most prolific scorers in the game in Wade. I'll say it again, he is the most physically dominant and most athletic player in the game today. No argument there. But what is that, when you can't be a closer, a clutch shooter, or a playmaker? This deferring to Wade & his teammates by some people is laughable and a copout to his disappearing act. At the end of the day he is 2-8 in the NBA Finals, which is inexcusable. Jordan was 24-11 career in 6 Finals. Kobe is 20-7 in 5 Finals. Dare to compare? :facepalm: In before close.

Swashcuff
06-13-2011, 11:28 AM
Why should we waste our energies in naming another player? You have listed every single player in the playoffs and shot them down for some reason or the other. Yet for Lebron James who had 1 of the top ten player in NBA (Wade) and another of the top twenty (approximation) in Bosh and still couldnt close the deal. This is what Lebron apologists continue to do day in and day out.

The Lakers had 4 HOFers one of whom was the best/most dominant big man in the game.... and one of the greatest coaches of all time with a winning system, yet still they weren't able to get in done in 04.

The Heat were assembled THIS season and still have gaping holes at the C and PG. Most didn't see them wining a championship this season in the first place. The Celts accomplished something the Heat weren't able to that team however had much more chemistry and had quality players at the PG/C. The Heat not so much. Without those players those Celtics would not have been so successful and may not have won the championship.

It's not about being a "LeBron apologists" its about reality. Teams don't generally win championships in the first season in which they are formed. Most chose them to lose to the Celts and not even make it to the East finals. They made it to the finals exceeding many expectations.

akagiredsuns
06-13-2011, 11:30 AM
Yes Labron is a great player but you can't be in with the names of the greats who knows how to take a team to the promise land! Jordan, Kobe, Bird, Magic, etc. The only thing Labron has proven so far with his greatness is that he can't be great in championship games when it really counts!

Labron can take the ball and do what ever he wants with it to anybody but he can't do that in those important championship games. He choked in Cleavland and didn't make the finals and He choked in Miami during the finals. Not a good look if you want to be great!

Your first paragraph is a +1. But the bold? Dude, do you watch basketball? LeBron did go to the Finals in '07 with Cleveland. They just got swept by the Spurs, who were clearly the better team. He was only 23 when he took the Cavs there. He's lost 8 times in the Finals, something I never miss a chance to point out. :D

BklynKnicks3
06-13-2011, 11:31 AM
Melo the bully will not be mia in any game. If he lose he go out swinging

jockrider
06-13-2011, 11:31 AM
lebron being scared of the moment/terrified to shoot the ball just proves how great kobe and jordan are

please don't put mj and kobe in the same sentence.

jockrider
06-13-2011, 11:32 AM
Melo the bully will not be mia in any game. If he lose he go out swinging

like he did game 2 vs celtics? fat boy was too tired to foul lol.

ManRam
06-13-2011, 11:33 AM
Why should we waste our energies in naming another player? You have listed every single player in the playoffs and shot them down for some reason or the other. Yet for Lebron James who had 1 of the top ten player in NBA (Wade) and another of the top twenty (approximation) in Bosh and still couldnt close the deal. This is what Lebron apologists continue to do day in and day out.

The Mavs showed what most of us suspected: a great TEAM can beat 3 great players.

When Dirk was struggling bad last night (and he was really bad the first half), the team still was playing great. They had a great team with great compliments and great depth. As well as much better coaching. The Heat didn't have that great team. They don't have great complimentary players. They don't have great depth (not consistent at least).

You need to name players because you can't rank a player without considering who is ahead of a certain player.

JordansBulls
06-13-2011, 11:34 AM
Still the best player on the planet.

And its not even close.

Disagree. This is the 3rd year in a row where he lost with HCA and each time as a heavy favorite.

Telios9
06-13-2011, 11:40 AM
How can you Heat fans even have the integrity to say Lebron over Kobe still?

ManRam
06-13-2011, 11:42 AM
Disagree. This is the 3rd year in a row where he lost with HCA and each time as a heavy favorite.

At least he's had HCA...what other player has?

Only two teams have won it all since then. So with your logic, only Kobe or Dirk could be better...right? Since all you care about is team accomplishments.

So unless you think 1. Kobe 2. Dirk 3. LeBron, your logic is flawed immensely.

And again, point to me one player that takes the Cavs teams he took to the Finals and HCA any further than he did. Please...name me that player (hint: he doesn't exist).

Swashcuff
06-13-2011, 11:43 AM
How can you Heat fans even have the integrity to say Lebron over Kobe still?

I am not a Heat fan but it's interesting to note that in Kobe's first 10 Finals appearances he averaged 20.1 ppg. LeBron 19.5. It's not about average however but rather impact and overall production.

Explain how current Kobe is better than current LeBron when he got swept at the hand of these very Mavericks despite the fact that he was part of the defending NBA champs.

RaidersLakers24
06-13-2011, 11:44 AM
How can you Heat fans even have the integrity to say Lebron over Kobe still?

They are just blinded man don't worry about it id even say Dwight and wade are better then bron!

RaidersLakers24
06-13-2011, 11:46 AM
I am not a Heat fan but it's interesting to note that in Kobe's first 10 Finals appearances he averaged 20.1 ppg. LeBron 19.5. It's not about average however but rather impact and overall production.

Explain how current Kobe is better than current LeBron when he got swept at the hand of these very Mavericks despite the fact that he was part of the defending NBA champs.


It's called our second option being a ***** and shying away
It's called wade taking over and Lebron watching

It's Chris bosh your 3rd best player> lakers 3rd best player

It's called chalmers>fisher

And it's called the lakers being tired and barely making a shot after 3 straight years to the finals!

BigBlueCrew
06-13-2011, 11:46 AM
The Mavs showed what most of us suspected: a great TEAM can beat 3 great players.

When Dirk was struggling bad last night (and he was really bad the first half), the team still was playing great. They had a great team with great compliments and great depth. As well as much better coaching. The Heat didn't have that great team. They don't have great complimentary players. They don't have great depth (not consistent at least).

You need to name players because you can't rank a player without considering who is ahead of a certain player.

Ok.

Durant
Wade
Howard
James

I'll put him at number 4

Telios9
06-13-2011, 11:48 AM
They showed Lebron's + - for his finals game in his career last night during the game. There were some -20 on the chart wish i could find a link to it no super star should ever be -20 in a final game.... Super Stars are suppose to be able to take over the game late too and lebron shys away from the ball evertime just stands there Kobe Dirk and others take off and score ten points in the fourth Lebron could barley get you 2 points a game this postseason in the fourth.

ManRam
06-13-2011, 11:48 AM
Ok.

Durant
Wade
Howard
James

I'll put him at number 4

OK. That's all I ask.

Durant #1 is 100% laughable, however. Dirk could be #1 if you're going that route, not Durant. Durant's complete game fails in comparison to the rest of those guys'.

twoearl
06-13-2011, 11:49 AM
I don't think you can have it both ways. Either he the best or not. How can somebody be the best when he completely DISAPPEARS in the Finals. And I mean completely DISAPPERS. That is crazy. Right now I'd still rank him in the top 10 but not top 3 or 4. And YES I have Wade OVER him.

Hawkeye15
06-13-2011, 11:49 AM
It's called our second option being a ***** and shying away
It's called wade taking over and Lebron watching

It's Chris bosh your 3rd best player> lakers 3rd best player

It's called chalmers>fisher

And it's called the lakers being tired and barely making a shot after 3 straight years to the finals!

the same Fisher who has bailed the Lakers out countless times in the playoffs?

Guys, the best TEAM wins a chamionship. The Heat have 2.5 great players, but the Mavs has a superstar, and multiple great role players who are cohesive as a unit, and showed why basketball is a team sport.

RaidersLakers24
06-13-2011, 11:50 AM
please don't put mj and kobe in the same sentence.

Kobe,jordan comparison 10x a better comparison then Jordan,Lebron!

Swashcuff
06-13-2011, 11:51 AM
It's called our second option being a ***** and shying away
It's called wade taking over and Lebron watching

It's Chris bosh your 3rd best player> lakers 3rd best player

It's called chalmers>fisher

And it's called the lakers being tired and barely making a shot after 3 straight years to the finals!

It's called excuses.

Prior to this postseason everyone including myself had the Lakers obliterating the Mavs.

Hindsight is good but all those excuses weren't there before. How could the Lakers be tired after 3 straight years in the finals? Who said that. Weren't the Lakers are hungry as ever. Maybe they were tired because they were the oldest team in the league? Not because they made consecutive finals appearances.

Hawkeye15
06-13-2011, 11:53 AM
While its beyond obvious that LeBron **** the bed in the finals, I just can't understand how difficult it is to understand that basketball is a team sport. Kobe and Duncan, as well as Shaq, have had the most roster support players 1-12, of any individual player over the last 15 years. Is it no coincidence that they are all multiple ring winners?

Basketball is a team sport. Hence why Kobe can go 6-24 in game 7, and his team still wins. How hard is this to understand?

billyocean15
06-13-2011, 11:54 AM
please don't put mj and kobe in the same sentence.
kobe is the closest to jordan - the goat that we've seen

Telios9
06-13-2011, 11:55 AM
kobe is the closest to jordan - the goat that we've seen

This ^

RaidersLakers24
06-13-2011, 11:56 AM
the same Fisher who has bailed the Lakers out countless times in the playoffs?

Guys, the best TEAM wins a chamionship. The Heat have 2.5 great players, but the Mavs has a superstar, and multiple great role players who are cohesive as a unit, and showed why basketball is a team sport.


What did fisher do this year to help the lakers out? Nothing!

Swashcuff
06-13-2011, 11:56 AM
While its beyond obvious that LeBron **** the bed in the finals, I just can't understand how difficult it is to understand that basketball is a team sport. Kobe and Duncan, as well as Shaq, have had the most roster support players 1-12, of any individual player over the last 15 years. Is it no coincidence that they are all multiple ring winners?

Basketball is a team sport. Hence why Kobe can go 6-24 in game 7, and his team still wins. How hard is this to understand?

Or Dirk 9-27 (1-12 first half) and his Mavs still winning pretty convincingly at that.

Ace23
06-13-2011, 11:56 AM
I will take a 300 game sample size over a 6 game sample size.

Bron is the best player in the world until proven otherwise. One subpar series (unfortunately for him it was the finals), doesn't change the fact that he has been the best player in the NBA for 3 years.

Well...Kobe has 5 rings. LeBron has 0.

Let me ask you one very simple question: NBA Finals, game 7, fourth quarter, you're down by 1. You have the ball with 5 seconds left. Who do you want taking the shot? Kobe or LeBron?

I'll take Kobe.

Swashcuff
06-13-2011, 11:59 AM
Well...Kobe has 5 rings. LeBron has 0.

Let me ask you one very simple question: NBA Finals, game 7, fourth quarter, you're down by 1. You have the ball with 5 seconds left. Who do you want taking the shot? Kobe or LeBron?

I'll take Kobe.

I think everyone and their mother would take Kobe. That however is cannot be used as the deciding factor as to who is better than whom.

ManRam
06-13-2011, 12:00 PM
I think everyone and their mother would take Kobe. That however is cannot be used as the deciding factor as to who is better than whom.

Agreed. Kobe is the better career player as of now...

But I can't help but wonder how many rings LeBron would have playing alongside prime Shaq and playing with Pau, Artest, Odom, Fisher, Bynum and playing under the best coach ever...

Instead he had Mike Brown, Big Z and Mo Williams.

Now he has Wade and Bosh...so it's getting much more dire for him.

Hawkeye15
06-13-2011, 12:01 PM
Well...Kobe has 5 rings. LeBron has 0.

Let me ask you one very simple question: NBA Finals, game 7, fourth quarter, you're down by 1. You have the ball with 5 seconds left. Who do you want taking the shot? Kobe or LeBron?

I'll take Kobe.

you can take whomever you want. Your reasoning is flawed. Should I say, "LeBron is better because he was in the finals while Kobe was playing Playstation"? No, that doesn't make sense.

Basketball is a team sport. It allows Dirk to go 1-13, and his team still has a 2 point lead. It allows Kobe to go 6-24, and his team closes out game 7.

RaidersLakers24
06-13-2011, 12:03 PM
While its beyond obvious that LeBron **** the bed in the finals, I just can't understand how difficult it is to understand that basketball is a team sport. Kobe and Duncan, as well as Shaq, have had the most roster support players 1-12, of any individual player over the last 15 years. Is it no coincidence that they are all multiple ring winners?

Basketball is a team sport. Hence why Kobe can go 6-24 in game 7, and his team still wins. How hard is this to understand?


Stop helping Lebron out man he doesnt need your excuses... He choked the best players dont choke, sure it's a team sport but isn't your best player suppost to elevate his game and take you to the promise land?? Lebron didn't and that's a fact! He's not the best and he never was imo

Sadds The Gr8
06-13-2011, 12:06 PM
1.) Howard
2.) Wade
3.) Dirk
4.) CP3
5.) Queen James
6.) Durant
7.) Rose
8.) Mamba (not what he once was
9.) Amare
10.) Aldride/Melo/D12/Westbrook

fail?

RaiderLakersA's
06-13-2011, 12:17 PM
Losing in the Finals doesn't mean that you lose your position as one of the best players in the game today. Throughout NBA history some of the best players have had early exits from the playoffs or failed to win the title that year.

While this doesn't change LeBron's standing as one of the top 3 players in the league, losing in the Finals twice, and this time with one of the other top 3 players in the league, will certainly impact his legacy. A moratorium should be placed on anyone saying that LeBron will be a top 10 all-time great player when his career ends...to be lifted only after he wins a title.

uprightciti
06-13-2011, 12:18 PM
1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Howard
4. Durrant
5. Rose
6. Melo
7. Cp3
8. Dirk
9. Amare
10. Lebron

Hawkeye15
06-13-2011, 12:22 PM
Stop helping Lebron out man he doesnt need your excuses... He choked the best players dont choke, sure it's a team sport but isn't your best player suppost to elevate his game and take you to the promise land?? Lebron didn't and that's a fact! He's not the best and he never was imo

And that is all it is man. And a biased one at that. You have clearly made it known that you will not accept anyone else's opinions. And that is fine, since you don't insult people.

Now, this will be the last time I say this to you specifically. Basketball is a TEAM sport.

If I were to tell you that Kobe could average 15.6 ppg, on 36% shooting, in the finals, and his team would still win, would you believe me?

Teams win rings. Stars lead them. But the strongest TEAMS are able to whether bad performances from their stars, which happens to nearly every one of them.

Swashcuff
06-13-2011, 12:28 PM
1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Howard
4. Durrant
5. Rose
6. Melo
7. Cp3
8. Dirk
9. Amare
10. Lebron

Had Lebron joined the Knicks last off season he'd be #1 right.... lol.... u guys are so funny.

Chacarron
06-13-2011, 12:30 PM
He is still the best player in NBA.

JordansBulls
06-13-2011, 12:40 PM
1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Howard
4. Durrant
5. Rose
6. Melo
7. Cp3
8. Dirk
9. Amare
10. Lebron

There is no argument for Kobe to be the #1 player in the league anymore. None.

boogieman
06-13-2011, 12:42 PM
#1 Choke Artist

JordansBulls
06-13-2011, 12:42 PM
At least he's had HCA...what other player has?

Only two teams have won it all since then. So with your logic, only Kobe or Dirk could be better...right? Since all you care about is team accomplishments.

So unless you think 1. Kobe 2. Dirk 3. LeBron, your logic is flawed immensely.

And again, point to me one player that takes the Cavs teams he took to the Finals and HCA any further than he did. Please...name me that player (hint: he doesn't exist).

Dirk did it with less talent.

Dallas

57-25,
Coach: Rick Carlisle (57-25)

PTS/G: 100.2 (11th of 30) ? Opp PTS/G: 96.0 (10th of 30)
SRS: 4.41 (8th of 30) ? Pace: 91.3 (18th of 30)
Off Rtg: 109.7 (8th of 30) ? Def Rtg: 105.0 (8th of 30)
Expected W-L: 53-29 (8th of 30)



Cleveland

61-21
Coach: Mike Brown (61-21)

PTS/G: 102.1 (9th of 30) ? Opp PTS/G: 95.6 (6th of 30)
SRS: 6.17 (2nd of 30) ? Pace: 91.4 (25th of 30)
Off Rtg: 111.2 (6th of 30) ? Def Rtg: 104.1 (7th of 30)
Expected W-L: 59-23 (2nd of 30)


Cavs averaged more ppg and and had better defense. Cavs had a better offensive and defensive rating and had a higher SRS rating and Expected W-L

Cavs were 1-5 without Lebron and Mavs were 2-7 without Dirk.

RaidersLakers24
06-13-2011, 12:51 PM
There is no argument for Kobe to be the #1 player in the league anymore. None.

Why not? Many people outside of psd have Kobe as the #1 player!

Swashcuff
06-13-2011, 01:03 PM
Dirk did it with less talent.

Dallas

57-25,
Coach: Rick Carlisle (57-25)

PTS/G: 100.2 (11th of 30) ? Opp PTS/G: 96.0 (10th of 30)
SRS: 4.41 (8th of 30) ? Pace: 91.3 (18th of 30)
Off Rtg: 109.7 (8th of 30) ? Def Rtg: 105.0 (8th of 30)
Expected W-L: 53-29 (8th of 30)



Cleveland

61-21
Coach: Mike Brown (61-21)

PTS/G: 102.1 (9th of 30) ? Opp PTS/G: 95.6 (6th of 30)
SRS: 6.17 (2nd of 30) ? Pace: 91.4 (25th of 30)
Off Rtg: 111.2 (6th of 30) ? Def Rtg: 104.1 (7th of 30)
Expected W-L: 59-23 (2nd of 30)


Cavs averaged more ppg and and had better defense. Cavs had a better offensive and defensive rating and had a higher SRS rating and Expected W-L

Cavs were 1-5 without Lebron and Mavs were 2-7 without Dirk.

Sigh... you missed the WHOLE point.

Swashcuff
06-13-2011, 01:04 PM
Why not? Many people outside of psd have Kobe as the #1 player!

U mean many Laker fans.... it's not just PSD dude, it's everywhere.

PurpleJesus
06-13-2011, 01:14 PM
ridiculous

gmckenziejr82
06-13-2011, 03:21 PM
I still believe Lebron is the most talented and athletic player in the league. But I don't believe that makes him the best player going into next season. There were moments in the finals where he would pass the ball and I couldn't believe he wasn't taking the shot. Maybe the Dallas defense made him lose some confidence, but I just can't put all my chips on him being the best in the league and he couldn't overcome a little pressure. Right now I would choose Wade or Kobe over him because of their killer instincts.

Kobe2324
06-13-2011, 03:36 PM
I am sure all the Lebron lovers will jump all over this but Kobe is still the best, 5 rings he plays 33 min a game and his stats are still solid, he plays on a team with a lot of talent and because of that his stats suffer a little bit, but let's not forget what his stats would look like on a team with less talent. Yes hes getting older and im not saying he is going to be the best for the next 5 years, but I still think he is the best right now...

Cowboys4Life619
06-13-2011, 03:36 PM
One of the best that can't win the big one. He'll get his...and this is coming from a Magic fan...hahaha! I think this team will win next year or the year after that...

Let's not let one series (and i know it's a Finals series) be the end all of Lebron. Give Dallas some credit here..they out-played the Heat. If Miami would've won, everyone would've said, they bought their championship..or Dallas wasn't good enough to compete with 3 all-stars..since the Mavs won, give them the credit for having a better game plan and executing it, especially defensively!

nick65049
06-13-2011, 03:57 PM
People talk about Lebron being the best all around player, but people forget that a game is four quarters long. Lebron is not the best player because he cannot finish games. He can play a solid three quarters and then when the fourth quarter comes he fails. He loves to pass up that last shot instead of thriving for it. If he ever gets a killer instinct then we can talk about him being the best player. I would put Dirk, Wade, and Kobe above him.

DoJoTheSlasher
06-13-2011, 04:34 PM
Hey LeBron. How does my Dirk taste?

http://ll-media.tmz.com/2011/06/13/0613-t-shirt-tmz-ex-wm-2-credit.jpg

Jewelz0376
06-13-2011, 04:39 PM
I dont think Kobe is the best player in the league anymore...but I'd def take Kobe over Lebron ne day.. I give Kobe a pass for this past postseason they were all just worn down..

But Kobe doesn't buckle under pressure like Lebron does...Kobe may have bad shooting games in big games at times (every player does) but I trust Kobe will give his all in big games...Lebron you can't