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JoeyBoy718
06-11-2011, 02:22 PM
Did they basically trade away half their team and the #3 pick to rent a guy for not even half a season?

And

1) How bad does that suck?

2) When's the last time something like this happened?

rwynyc
06-11-2011, 02:27 PM
How would it not suck. They were in a position were they had to take a risk. Whether it pans out we will see.

Hawkeye15
06-11-2011, 02:30 PM
yes, it would set them back even further than they were 2 years ago.

DoMeFavors
06-11-2011, 02:30 PM
Ofcourse it would suck, the nets traded away Favors and Harris and a nice draft pick next year. So ofcourse it would suck.

JoeyBoy718
06-11-2011, 02:33 PM
What I was implying by asking how bad it would suck was basically: would they get any kind of compensation or did they basically risk EVERYTHING when they made the trade? Also, my second part of the question, has this ever happened before--a team risking everything on a trade and not being able to keep the player?

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-11-2011, 02:33 PM
In your first question yes it would. In second question I'm not sure if it has happened before in the NBA but stuff like this happens at least once or twice a year. Teams trade their farm for a two month rental and then they leave.

DoMeFavors
06-11-2011, 02:36 PM
Reminds me of Hedo kind of he signed an extension with Toronto but wanted out the next year and they were forced to trade him. So I guess that kind of compares.

JoeyBoy718
06-11-2011, 02:37 PM
In your first question yes it would. In second question I'm not sure if it has happened before in the NBA but stuff like this happens at least once or twice a year. Teams trade their farm for a two month rental and then they leave.

I'm confused by your answer. Did you mean to say stuff like this happens all the time in the MLB? If so, yea that's true. Baseball is a funny sport when it comes to trades. You'll see every team not in the playoff contention basically trade away all their assets. Whereas in basketball of football, if a team is a year away, they usually just wait.

Sadds The Gr8
06-11-2011, 02:38 PM
they'd be screwed up the *** if he left. that'd be hilarious

llemon
06-11-2011, 02:39 PM
Certainly hoping Nets can re-sign Deron, or if Deron isn't going to re-sign, Nets can trade him for something of equal value.

However, if Deron were to just walk, it would just be another case of the Nets being the Nets.

JerseysFinest
06-11-2011, 02:40 PM
Nets would trade him before he leaves the team if he decided to leave, and he can only leave following the 2011-2012 season, so the Nets didn't rent him for "half a season".

And by the way, Deron Williams isn't leaving the Nets, so no need to envision what'll happen if he left.

JoeyBoy718
06-11-2011, 02:42 PM
If they don't keep him, they'd basically only have Lopez and would probably be worse off than they were the year they almost had the worst record of all time. Whereas if they didn't make the trade, they would've had a core of Lopez, Favors and a young PG in Knight or Walker, or possibly a trade up to get Derrick Williams.

jp611
06-11-2011, 02:43 PM
Ofcourse it would suck, the nets traded away Favors and Harris and a nice draft pick next year. So ofcourse it would suck.

Good thing you're a Heat fan though

SportsFanatic10
06-11-2011, 02:44 PM
it'd be a disaster.

DoMeFavors
06-11-2011, 02:44 PM
If they don't keep him, they'd basically only have Lopez and would probably be worse off than they were the year they almost had the worst record of all time. Whereas if they didn't make the trade, they would've had a core of Lopez, Favors and a young PG in Knight or Walker, or possibly a trade up to get Derrick Williams.

Well Nets have 20 million in cap space this year so they will have something other than Lopez. They will look to get some nice players this summer.

JoeyBoy718
06-11-2011, 02:46 PM
Nets would trade him before he leaves the team if he decided to leave, and he can only leave following the 2011-2012 season, so the Nets didn't rent him for "half a season".

And by the way, Deron Williams isn't leaving the Nets, so no need to envision what'll happen if he left.

That's what I was wondering. If they would be able to get any value from him or if they would lose him and everything they traded him for. I'm sure they wouldn't be stupid enough to risk everything on him, so I'm assuming they'll be able to get some kind of value for him. I'm not sure if they value would equal what they gave up to get him (Harris, Favors and the #3) but at least it wouldn't be a complete loss.

DoMeFavors
06-11-2011, 02:49 PM
That's what I was wondering. If they would be able to get any value from him or if they would lose him and everything they traded him for. I'm sure they wouldn't be stupid enough to risk everything on him, so I'm assuming they'll be able to get some kind of value for him. I'm not sure if they value would equal what they gave up to get him (Harris, Favors and the #3) but at least it wouldn't be a complete loss.

Harris and Favors werent even that great, Harris ever since his all star year has been pretty bad and was on the 12 win team and Favors might turn out to be something special but he might turn out to be a bust. If they trade him it will likley be to a contendor maybe Lakers, Magic, Mavs, something of that nature.

smith&wesson
06-11-2011, 02:49 PM
I can see j kidd retiring and dwill replacing him in dallas. i see dwill in a mavs jersey.

RipCity32
06-11-2011, 02:50 PM
I really can see him wanting out I don't think he wants to be there.

omdigga
06-11-2011, 02:54 PM
sucks if he doesnt resign.. but there is no way he walks with the nets getting nothing back.. they wouldnt let that happen...

llemon
06-11-2011, 02:57 PM
sucks if he doesnt resign.. but there is no way he walks with the nets getting nothing back.. they wouldnt let that happen...

You forget......we are talking about the Nets.

mcgswfan
06-11-2011, 03:02 PM
The Warriors could use his services, LOL.

Young and Stupid
06-11-2011, 03:02 PM
Deron Williams isn't going to leave the Nets. It's as clear as it can be that he'll be a Net for the long-term.

However, for those who haven't been following the situation -- and I wouldn't blame you; because nobody cares about the Nets -- here are some things that should be noted:

- Unlike Dwight Howard, Deron Williams is not able to sign an extension with the Nets right now. In fact, the Nets aren't even allowed to begin talking to Williams about an extension until July 18 (provided that a new CBA is reached).

- Deron Williams has given every indication that he'd like to remain with the Nets. He's basically said everything except "I'll sign the extension as soon as I'm allowed to." Deron Williams says his priority is to win; unlike the Carmelo Anthony's of the world, Williams lone goal is to win a championship. That actually takes a little bit away from what the Nets can offer; the Nets will soon have the NBA's best arena in the NBA's best market. They also have one of the league's most aggressive marketers and a global reach -- but Williams says he doesn't care about any of it. He wants to win, period.

- Unlike the Orlando Magic, the Nets can put their star player in position to compete. They have the NBA's best young center in Brook Lopez, two draft picks in what looks to be a stacked 2012 draft, a few solid players and $20 million in cap-space. Deron Williams has talked (indirectly) about recruiting his friend Dwight Howard, and the Nets provide Howard with the best opportunity to compete for a championship for multiple years and the chance to significantly expand his brand.

- Like the Clippers, the Nets are a team on the rise. Despite struggling for the last four seasons, these are not your same ol' Nets. They have the NBA's richest owner, a new general manager, their own D-League team and some of the NBA's most innovative minds.

The Nets make the most sense for Deron Williams and for Dwight Howard. They have cap-space, an owner willing to spend, and a player who other players want to play with. They'll soon be in the NBA's most expensive arena in the heart of Brooklyn. The future is bright for the franchise; whether the media wants to recognize it or not.

Atownballa5
06-11-2011, 03:04 PM
fantastic trade in my eyes. weak draft, harris went no where with nets, favors will be good but how good? williams is already proven and is one of the top point guards. say nets dont resign him and forced to trade pretty sure theyd still get something decent for him

JoeyBoy718
06-11-2011, 03:07 PM
Deron Williams isn't going to leave the Nets. It's as clear as it can be that he'll be a Net for the long-term.

However, for those who haven't been following the situation -- and I wouldn't blame you; because nobody cares about the Nets -- here are some things that should be noted:

- Unlike Dwight Howard, Deron Williams is not able to sign an extension with the Nets right now. In fact, the Nets aren't even allowed to begin talking to Williams about an extension until July 18 (provided that a new CBA is reached).

- Deron Williams has given every indication that he'd like to remain with the Nets. He's basically said everything except "I'll sign the extension as soon as I'm allowed to." Deron Williams says his priority is to win; unlike the Carmelo Anthony's of the world, Williams lone goal is to win a championship. That actually takes a little bit away from what the Nets can offer; the Nets will soon have the NBA's best arena in the NBA's best market. They also have one of the league's most aggressive marketers and a global reach -- but Williams says he doesn't care about any of it. He wants to win, period.

- Unlike the Orlando Magic, the Nets can put their star player in position to compete. They have the NBA's best young center in Brook Lopez, two draft picks in what looks to be a stacked 2012 draft, a few solid players and $20 million in cap-space. Deron Williams has talked (indirectly) about recruiting his friend Dwight Howard, and the Nets provide Howard with the best opportunity to compete for a championship for multiple years and the chance to significantly expand his brand.

- Like the Clippers, the Nets are a team on the rise. Despite struggling for the last four seasons, these are not your same ol' Nets. They have the NBA's richest owner, a new general manager, their own D-League team and some of the NBA's most innovative minds.

The Nets make the most sense for Deron Williams and for Dwight Howard. They have cap-space, an owner willing to spend, and a player who other players want to play with. They'll soon be in the NBA's most expensive arena in the heart of Brooklyn. The future is bright for the franchise; whether the media wants to recognize it or not.

You lost me when you said the reason he will STAY in New Jersey is because he wants to win. They have Brook Lopez, whose services you're overvaluing, and I believe their draft picks are later in the round because they traded the #3 pick to the Jazz, and I believe you called this a "stacked draft." If his main focus is winning, I think anywhere BUT New Jersey would be ideal.

Oh my bad. You said the 2012 draft. Anyway, I still think there are much better options if his main priority is winning. Namely LA and Dallas.

DoMeFavors
06-11-2011, 03:09 PM
You lost me when you said the reason he will STAY in New Jersey is because he wants to win. They have Brook Lopez, whose services you're overvaluing, and I believe their draft picks are later in the round because they traded the #3 pick to the Jazz, and I believe you called this a "stacked draft." If his main focus is winning, I think anywhere BUT New Jersey would be ideal.

The Nets have an owner whos willing to spend, they will make trades, and have 20 million in cap space. I dont see how adding an all star PG wont help them win? Look at the Celtics 4 years ago they won 24 games, look at Miami heat 3 years ago won 15 games.

JerseysFinest
06-11-2011, 03:12 PM
That's what I was wondering. If they would be able to get any value from him or if they would lose him and everything they traded him for. I'm sure they wouldn't be stupid enough to risk everything on him, so I'm assuming they'll be able to get some kind of value for him. I'm not sure if they value would equal what they gave up to get him (Harris, Favors and the #3) but at least it wouldn't be a complete loss.

Well Billy King knew going into it that this was a huge risk, so best believe he'll do anything in his power to make sure he stays. Their head coach and GM have come out on numerous occasions and have candidly expressed confidence that he'll stay. If it honestly came down to it, the Nets should turn to a team like Oklahoma City, and demand Russell Westbrook, James Harden, fillers, and picks. But again, we'll never have to worry about this because he's staying.

Tuck&Rolle
06-11-2011, 03:13 PM
Did they basically trade away half their team and the #3 pick to rent a guy for not even half a season?

And

1) How bad does that suck?

2) When's the last time something like this happened?

Its actually a season and a half. He's a FA in 2012, the Nets gave up a lot for him and if they don't get him to sign a extension they're going to look like real idiots.

akesh99
06-11-2011, 03:13 PM
Deron Williams isn't going to leave the Nets. It's as clear as it can be that he'll be a Net for the long-term.

However, for those who haven't been following the situation -- and I wouldn't blame you; because nobody cares about the Nets -- here are some things that should be noted:

- Unlike Dwight Howard, Deron Williams is not able to sign an extension with the Nets right now. In fact, the Nets aren't even allowed to begin talking to Williams about an extension until July 18 (provided that a new CBA is reached).

- Deron Williams has given every indication that he'd like to remain with the Nets. He's basically said everything except "I'll sign the extension as soon as I'm allowed to." Deron Williams says his priority is to win; unlike the Carmelo Anthony's of the world, Williams lone goal is to win a championship. That actually takes a little bit away from what the Nets can offer; the Nets will soon have the NBA's best arena in the NBA's best market. They also have one of the league's most aggressive marketers and a global reach -- but Williams says he doesn't care about any of it. He wants to win, period.

- Unlike the Orlando Magic, the Nets can put their star player in position to compete. They have the NBA's best young center in Brook Lopez, two draft picks in what looks to be a stacked 2012 draft, a few solid players and $20 million in cap-space. Deron Williams has talked (indirectly) about recruiting his friend Dwight Howard, and the Nets provide Howard with the best opportunity to compete for a championship for multiple years and the chance to significantly expand his brand.

- Like the Clippers, the Nets are a team on the rise. Despite struggling for the last four seasons, these are not your same ol' Nets. They have the NBA's richest owner, a new general manager, their own D-League team and some of the NBA's most innovative minds.

The Nets make the most sense for Deron Williams and for Dwight Howard. They have cap-space, an owner willing to spend, and a player who other players want to play with. They'll soon be in the NBA's most expensive arena in the heart of Brooklyn. The future is bright for the franchise; whether the media wants to recognize it or not.

Well Deron basically has two options. Stick it out with the Nets and hope they can put together a championship calibre team OR sign/request a trade to an already contending team where he can put them over the top. If his main priority is winning, wouldn't it make more sense for him to make the safe choice and join a team like the Mavs?

Oh and btw, Chandler is better than Lopez and Cuban is just as willing to spend money in order to produce a winning team

Tuck&Rolle
06-11-2011, 03:17 PM
Well Deron basically has two options. Stick it out with the Nets and hope they can put together a championship calibre team OR sign/request a trade to an already contending team where he can put them over the top. If his main priority is winning, wouldn't it make more sense for him to make the safe choice and join a team like the Mavs?

Oh and btw, Chandler is better than Lopez and Cuban is just as willing to spend money in order to produce a winning team

Every owner is willing to spend the money in the NBA, theres a 58 million salary cap. It's not like baseball where some teams spend 50 million in salary and others who spend over 200 million.

llemon
06-11-2011, 03:18 PM
Well Deron basically has two options. Stick it out with the Nets and hope they can put together a championship calibre team OR sign/request a trade to an already contending team where he can put them over the top. If his main priority is winning, wouldn't it make more sense for him to make the safe choice and join a team like the Mavs?

Oh and btw, Chandler is better than Lopez and Cuban is just as willing to spend money in order to produce a winning team

Mavs don't really make sense because they probably won't have the capspace and really have nothing that the Nets want in a trade.

JerseysFinest
06-11-2011, 03:19 PM
Well Deron basically has two options. Stick it out with the Nets and hope they can put together a championship calibre team OR sign/request a trade to an already contending team where he can put them over the top. If his main priority is winning, wouldn't it make more sense for him to make the safe choice and join a team like the Mavs?

Oh and btw, Chandler is better than Lopez and Cuban is just as willing to spend money in order to produce a winning team

C'mon son. Brook Lopez is better than Tyson Chandler; much better offensively, younger and more potential. Tyson is a better defender and rebounder however, but if Lopez learns how to get better position and hits the weight room, he'll be fine. And the Mavericks are going to be hand-cuffed financially after re-signing Butler and Chandler, how will they get Deron? How would the Lakers get Deron?

akesh99
06-11-2011, 03:19 PM
Every owner is willing to spend the money in the NBA, theres a 58 million salary cap. It's not like baseball where some teams spend 50 million in salary and others who spend over 200 million.

Fair enough. So all things being equal money wise, the Mavs still have a better team and have a better chance at winning than the Nets.

Young and Stupid
06-11-2011, 03:20 PM
Anyway, I still think there are much better options if his main priority is winning. Namely LA and Dallas.

Are we talking Lakers or Clippers? If we're talking Clippers then I actually agree. I think it would behoove Deron Williams and Dwight Howard to look into joining forces with Blake Griffin in Los Angeles. It would be great for the league and it would put both of them in the best position to compete for a championship. However, the Donald Sterling factor can't be overlooked.

If we're talking about the Lakers then you could be right. The Lakers certainly have a better team than the Nets do -- with Bryant, Gasol, Odom and Bynum as the foundation -- but there are a couple problems. First, there's no conceivable way that the Lakers could sign Williams -- they simply don't have the space. Second, even if they did have room to add DWill, the Lakers run a triangle offense -- an offense that depreciates the value of a point-guard -- whether Mike Brown will utilize the triangle as heavily as Phil Jackson is yet to be determined. The Lakers are not an option for Williams.

The Mavericks do present an interesting situation for Williams -- he could get to play in his hometown and follow his childhood idol (Jason Kidd). However, they won't have the cap-space to add DWill. So that's not an option for Williams.

There are three viable options for Deron Williams: the Nets, Clippers and Celtics. I think the Clippers make the most basketball-sense, but there are some ownership problems. The Celtics would have space to add Williams and another quality player, but it wouldn't really put him in a better position than he is with the Nets. The Nets make the most basketball-sense and the most marketing sense.

There's no doubt in my mind that Williams will resign with the team, but Knicks and Mavericks fans are free to speculate.

Edit: LOL @ Chandler being better than Lopez. The two are in completely different situations.

JoeyBoy718
06-11-2011, 03:20 PM
Well Deron basically has two options. Stick it out with the Nets and hope they can put together a championship calibre team OR sign/request a trade to an already contending team where he can put them over the top. If his main priority is winning, wouldn't it make more sense for him to make the safe choice and join a team like the Mavs?

Oh and btw, Chandler is better than Lopez and Cuban is just as willing to spend money in order to produce a winning team

I agree with this 100%. I'm not hating on the Nets. I think if they resigned Williams and kept this same exact team (basically the team they were after the trade) they would be a low playoff team in the East, 7-8 seed. If they could somehow sign some other guys, their seed could rise, but even if all goes perfectly, I still don't think they'd be a contender right away--more like 2 seasons away. If Deron wants to win now, he would be best off going to a team that is ready to win right now, like LA or Dallas.

Also, everybody is saying the Nets have an owner who is willing to spend money. Well, what did that willingness get you guys last offseason, the biggest free agency offseason in the history of the game? I'm not hating. I'm just being realistic.

akesh99
06-11-2011, 03:24 PM
C'mon son. Brook Lopez is better than Tyson Chandler; much better offensively, younger and more potential. Tyson is a better defender and rebounder however, but if Lopez learns how to get better position and hits the weight room, he'll be fine. And the Mavericks are going to be hand-cuffed financially after re-signing Butler and Chandler, how will they get Deron? How would the Lakers get Deron?

Im sure that at some point Brook Lopez can surpass Chandler. All I'm saying is that if we are talking about winning and winning NOW, I'd easily take Chandler on my team over Lopez. Put Lopez on the Mavs instead of Chandler and I think they have a hard time even making it out of the first round.

akesh99
06-11-2011, 03:27 PM
PS everyone I'm not trying to hate on the Nets. I definitely think they're headed in the right direction and have a bright future. I'm just trying to play devlis advocate for those who think resigning Williams is a given.

JoeyBoy718
06-11-2011, 03:27 PM
Are we talking Lakers or Clippers? If we're talking Clippers then I actually agree. I think it would behoove Deron Williams and Dwight Howard to look into joining forces with Blake Griffin in Los Angeles. It would be great for the league and it would put both of them in the best position to compete for a championship. However, the Donald Sterling factor can't be overlooked.

If we're talking about the Lakers then you could be right. The Lakers certainly have a better team than the Nets do -- with Bryant, Gasol, Odom and Bynum as the foundation -- but there are a couple problems. First, there's no conceivable way that the Lakers could sign Williams -- they simply don't have the space. Second, even if they did have room to add DWill, the Lakers run a triangle offense -- an offense that depreciates the value of a point-guard -- whether Mike Brown will utilize the triangle as heavily as Phil Jackson is yet to be determined. The Lakers are not an option for Williams.

The Mavericks do present an interesting situation for Williams -- he could get to play in his hometown and follow his childhood idol (Jason Kidd). However, they won't have the cap-space to add DWill. So that's not an option for Williams.

There are three viable options for Deron Williams: the Nets, Clippers and Celtics. I think the Clippers make the most basketball-sense, but there are some ownership problems. The Celtics would have space to add Williams and another quality player, but it wouldn't really put him in a better position than he is with the Nets. The Nets make the most basketball-sense and the most marketing sense.

There's no doubt in my mind that Williams will resign with the team, but Knicks and Mavericks fans are free to speculate.

Edit: LOL @ Chandler being better than Lopez. The two are in completely different situations.

I meant the Lakers, but I definitely agree that the Clippers would be a great spot too, much better than New Jersey. A young core of Blake Griffin, Eric Gordon, DeAndre Jordan, and vets like Mo Williams and Chris Kaman. I think they'll be playoff caliber without Deron, but of course adding him would put them in contention in the West and the favorites (along with OKC) in the West for the next 10 years.

JerseysFinest
06-11-2011, 03:30 PM
I agree with this 100%. I'm not hating on the Nets. I think if they resigned Williams and kept this same exact team (basically the team they were after the trade) they would be a low playoff team in the East, 7-8 seed. If they could somehow sign some other guys, their seed could rise, but even if all goes perfectly, I still don't think they'd be a contender right away--more like 2 seasons away. If Deron wants to win now, he would be best off going to a team that is ready to win right now, like LA or Dallas.

Also, everybody is saying the Nets have an owner who is willing to spend money. Well, what did that willingness get you guys last offseason, the biggest free agency offseason in the history of the game? I'm not hating. I'm just being realistic.

For the last time, allow me to tell you the real story:

LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh already made up their minds they were going to join forces in Miami. So basically, no team besides Miami had the advantage.

Carlos Boozer and his agent were negotiating with former Nets general manager Rod Thorn on a deal, and Boozer was set to become a Net. His son was receiving treatment in a NJ hospital, and it was reported earlier both the Nets and Boozer wanted to do business. Thorn offered a 5 year/75 million dollar deal, but Boozer wanted a 5 year/80 million dollar deal. Thorn wouldn't budge, and the Bulls FO called Boozer and offered him the 5 year/80 million dollar deal, thus leading him to becoming a Bull.

Amar'e Stoudemire WANTED to become a Net. Earlier in 2010, he expressed interest in wanting to play in NJ when the Nets were in negotiations with the Suns to trade for him, and before free agency began Amar'e again expressed interest in playing here. The Nets even had a meeting with him after July 1. The reason the Nets didn't want to give him a 5 year/100 million dollar deal was because they had spoken to former Suns exec Steve Kerr and he warned Amar'e's knees will give out at some point over the life of that deal, and the team that ends up with him will be in the position Portland is in now with Brandon Roy.

Joe Johnson resigned with the Hawks early, as well as Rudy Gay with Memphis.

JoeyBoy718
06-11-2011, 03:32 PM
Im sure that at some point Brook Lopez can surpass Chandler. All I'm saying is that if we are talking about winning and winning NOW, I'd easily take Chandler on my team over Lopez. Put Lopez on the Mavs instead of Chandler and I think they have a hard time even making it out of the first round.

That's what I'm saying. Nobody can defend Brook Lopez without saying "if only he could get better at..." When he came into the league, I was thinking him and Dwight would be the best centers in the league for the next decade. Now I'm thinking Dwight and maybe Bynum. Basically Lopez is falling down the list, and falling fast. I see all the potential is the guy, but it seems like he develops a new flaw each season. On rebounding and defense alone, I'd take Chandler right now over him. Especially on a team that has other good players, you don't need a young scoring center if he can't out rebound your point guard.

ne3xchamps
06-11-2011, 03:34 PM
It would suck beyond belief. Trading all that to do nothing. And then on top of it, they will be in the same position as they were before the trade. I'm surprised they traded for him, without an extension. Way to go new ownership. But with an owner like they have, he has the resources to get something done.

JerseysFinest
06-11-2011, 03:34 PM
Im sure that at some point Brook Lopez can surpass Chandler. All I'm saying is that if we are talking about winning and winning NOW, I'd easily take Chandler on my team over Lopez. Put Lopez on the Mavs instead of Chandler and I think they have a hard time even making it out of the first round.

I don't think it'd be difficult for them to get out of the first round, but yes the Mavericks need defense and rebounding at the 5 spot. You have to bear in mind though that Lopez was suffering from a calcium deposit in his arm which caused him pain on contact, and was suffering from after-effects of a summer bout with mononucleosis. Had it not been for this, I'm sure fans would've seen a different player this season.

znick21
06-11-2011, 03:36 PM
i think the risk of him leaving is about equal to the probability that derek favors pans out. if he does reach his potential and deron walks than it was a horrible trade. harris is a pretty nice piece, but nothing any franchise would be ecstatic about getting, the 3rd pick in this draft is more than likely going to be an average nba player/bust, so i don't really feel like they gave up that much. that is unless favors pans out.

JoeyBoy718
06-11-2011, 03:37 PM
For the last time, allow me to tell you the real story:

LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh already made up their minds they were going to join forces in Miami. So basically, no team besides Miami had the advantage.

Carlos Boozer and his agent were negotiating with former Nets general manager Rod Thorn on a deal, and Boozer was set to become a Net. His son was receiving treatment in a NJ hospital, and it was reported earlier both the Nets and Boozer wanted to do business. Thorn offered a 5 year/75 million dollar deal, but Boozer wanted a 5 year/80 million dollar deal. Thorn wouldn't budge, and the Bulls FO called Boozer and offered him the 5 year/80 million dollar deal, thus leading him to becoming a Bull.

Amar'e Stoudemire WANTED to become a Net. Earlier in 2010, he expressed interest in wanting to play in NJ when the Nets were in negotiations with the Suns to trade for him, and before free agency began Amar'e again expressed interest in playing here. The Nets even had a meeting with him after July 1. The reason the Nets didn't want to give him a 5 year/100 million dollar deal was because they had spoken to former Suns exec Steve Kerr and he warned Amar'e's knees will give out at some point over the life of that deal, and the team that ends up with him will be in the position Portland is in now with Brandon Roy.

Joe Johnson resigned with the Hawks early, as well as Rudy Gay with Memphis.

How did any of what you said make the Nets look good? You said earlier that the Nets are willing to spend money, and then you just said that the 2 biggest free agents (outside of the big 3 in Miami) WANTED to sign with the Nets but the Nets weren't willing to spend the money. Then out of desperation they ended up over spending on a bunch of role players. The Nets were lucky to get Deron during the season, and that was because of the problems going on in Utah between Deron and his team. He was going to leave regardless, and the Nets just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

ne3xchamps
06-11-2011, 03:37 PM
Mavs don't really make sense because they probably won't have the capspace and really have nothing that the Nets want in a trade.

They would have the cap room with one move. Also Jkidd might retire if he gets a ring(8.5M off the books). But I agree they don't have much to offer. unless Dwill pulls a lebron and leaves the nets hanging and signs with dallas anyways.

Young and Stupid
06-11-2011, 03:42 PM
How did any of what you said make the Nets look good? You said earlier that the Nets are willing to spend money, and then you just said that the 2 biggest free agents (outside of the big 3 in Miami) WANTED to sign with the Nets but the Nets weren't willing to spend the money. Then out of desperation they ended up over spending on a bunch of role players. The Nets were lucky to get Deron during the season, and that was because of the problems going on in Utah between Deron and his team. He was going to leave regardless, and the Nets just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

I got this JF.

It wasn't supposed to make the Nets look good, per se. It was just illustrating that the reason the Nets didn't lure any free agents last season was not because they weren't interested in the team's future, but instead because of mitigating circumstances.

LeBron has stated on multiple occasions that the most impressive presentation last summer was the one made by the Nets (headed by Prokhorov, Jay-Z, Rod Thorn and Avery Johnson). However, it appears evident that he already had his mind set on joining Wade in Miami, so nothing was going to change his mind.

The Nets opted not to sign Boozer and Amare. It wasn't that they weren't willing to spend money; instead, it was a measure of fiscal responsibility.

JerseysFinest
06-11-2011, 03:44 PM
How did any of what you said make the Nets look good? You said earlier that the Nets are willing to spend money, and then you just said that the 2 biggest free agents (outside of the big 3 in Miami) WANTED to sign with the Nets but the Nets weren't willing to spend the money. Then out of desperation they ended up over spending on a bunch of role players. The Nets were lucky to get Deron during the season, and that was because of the problems going on in Utah between Deron and his team. He was going to leave regardless, and the Nets just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Imma let someone else answer this one.

JoeyBoy718
06-11-2011, 03:46 PM
I got this JF.

It wasn't supposed to make the Nets look good, per se. It was just illustrating that the reason the Nets didn't lure any free agents last season was not because they weren't interested in the team's future, but instead because of mitigating circumstances.

LeBron has stated on multiple occasions that the most impressive presentation last summer was the one made by the Nets (headed by Prokhorov, Jay-Z, Rod Thorn and Avery Johnson). However, it appears evident that he already had his mind set on joining Wade in Miami, so nothing was going to change his mind.

The Nets opted not to sign Boozer and Amare. It wasn't that they weren't willing to spend money; instead, it was a measure of fiscal responsibility.

I understand the circumstances. I'm just saying there's always going to be circumstances. The Heat, Knicks, Bulls and some other teams came out huge in probably the deepest offseason we'll see in a long time. I'm saying, based on what we saw from New Jersey last offseason, what makes you so sure they're going to do any better next offseason, the one after, etc?

Young and Stupid
06-11-2011, 03:53 PM
I understand the circumstances. I'm just saying there's always going to be circumstances. The Heat, Knicks, Bulls and some other teams came out huge in probably the deepest offseason we'll see in a long time. I'm saying, based on what we saw from New Jersey last offseason, what makes you so sure they're going to do any better next offseason, the one after, etc?

Of course, the Heat came out great. We've already gone over that. However ... did the Knicks and Bulls "come out huge" (pause)?

There was no doubt that Stoudemire would produce in the early stages of his uninsured contract; the risk came later in the deal. Sure, the Knicks look good now -- although they'll never compete for a championship as currently constructed -- but how will they look if Amare's knees give out when he has two years and forty million remaining on the contract.

The Bulls certainly don't look good with the Boozer signing. Sure, they captured the 1st seed and made a run to the Eastern Conference Finals, but that was a result of Thibodeu's defensive system and the emergence of Derrick Rose -- it had nothing to do with Boozer. In fact, that Boozer contract is looking like an amnesty worthy one.

If I decide not to **** a girl because I've heard that she's dirty and my friend goes forward with it and closes does that mean that I ****ed up? In the short-term it might look like it, but we have to see how things pan out. Does it mean that I'll never be able to get another girl? No. It was one offseason; it's not the end-all be-all.

Tuck&Rolle
06-11-2011, 04:12 PM
Fair enough. So all things being equal money wise, the Mavs still have a better team and have a better chance at winning than the Nets.

Yea obviously lol

llemon
06-11-2011, 04:26 PM
They would have the cap room with one move. Also Jkidd might retire if he gets a ring(8.5M off the books). But I agree they don't have much to offer. unless Dwill pulls a lebron and leaves the nets hanging and signs with dallas anyways.

What does Kidd retiring have to do with this? Deron isn't a FA in '11-'12.

jules77
06-11-2011, 05:42 PM
[QUOTE=YounG n STuPiD;18205489]I got this JF.



LeBron has stated on multiple occasions that the most impressive presentation last summer was the one made by the Nets (headed by Prokhorov, Jay-Z, Rod Thorn and Avery Johnson). However, it appears evident that he already had his mind set on joining Wade in Miami, so nothing was going to change his mind.

Never heard LeBron said that. Show me the link?? I can get you the link were he said the Nets should be contracted. Fact is when have the Nets ever signed a Big time free agent? WHEN? NAME HIM..Nets acquired their star players thru trades..They play in a big market but have small market revenues..LOST $60 million last year!! one of the worst teams in attendance..Have one of the lowest TV ratings in the league. Fiscal responsibility? Travis Outlaw your fiscal responsibility. Players like Amare & Boozer they are not going to diss the Nets publicly. Privately you judge them by their actions and no Top notch player is willingly going there. They are Clippers East all the way. The Ny market has never supported them...skeptical about how much Brooklyn will change that. Doubt Deron "really" wants to stay there. Wait and see.

DoMeFavors
06-11-2011, 05:44 PM
[QUOTE=YounG n STuPiD;18205489]I got this JF.



LeBron has stated on multiple occasions that the most impressive presentation last summer was the one made by the Nets (headed by Prokhorov, Jay-Z, Rod Thorn and Avery Johnson). However, it appears evident that he already had his mind set on joining Wade in Miami, so nothing was going to change his mind.

Never heard LeBron said that. Show me the link?? I can get you the link were he said the Nets should be contracted. Fact is when have the Nets ever signed a Big time free agent? WHEN? NAME HIM..Nets acquired their star players thru trades..They play in a big market but have small market revenues..LOST $60 million last year!! one of the worst teams in attendance..Have one of the lowest TV ratings in the league. Fiscal responsibility? Travis Outlaw your fiscal responsibility. Players like Amare & Boozer they are not going to diss the Nets publicly. Privately you judge them by their actions and no Top notch player is willingly going there. They are Clippers East all the way. The Ny market has never supported them...skeptical about how much Brooklyn will change that. Doubt Deron "really" wants to stay there. Wait and see.

Nets signed Alonzo Mourning thanks! No Nets arent clippers east, the clippers have the worst winning percentage similar to the Knicks. Nets have been a winning franchise the last 10 years except for the last 2.

jules77
06-11-2011, 06:07 PM
33 year old past his prime Alonzo Mourning? lol..you call that a major signing? 4 years 22 mill? How many games did he play for yall? and you want to retire his #? PATHETIC..i wasnt going to respond until I saw that silly sig you got up there with Alonzo..He is a MIAMI HEAT for life.

DoMeFavors
06-11-2011, 06:14 PM
33 year old past his prime Alonzo Mourning? lol..you call that a major signing? 4 years 22 mill? How many games did he play for yall? and you want to retire his #? PATHETIC..i wasnt going to respond until I saw that silly sig you got up there with Alonzo..He is a MIAMI HEAT for life.

Im a Miami Heat fan so I know he will always be known for there. He still signed on the dotted line. Yes I can a former defensive player of the year and all star a good signing. Seems like you dont like the Nets and I find it funny. With all this hate the Nets must really have gotten you angry about something. Jason Kidd and Vince Carter were traded to the Nets but still resigned with Nets when their contract was up. I dont care if the Nets dont have as many fans as the Knicks as long as they are winning is all that matters to me. I dont understand the obbsession about fan support, Miami Heat never had the best fans do you think it bothers them? Nope because they have 3 all stars and are in the finals.

king4day
06-11-2011, 06:20 PM
Hate to say it but they had to do that trade. It's a superstar league and there's no reason not to take that chance if no one wants to go there anyway.
Besides, since the trade, we already are hearing rumblings about Dwight possibly wanting to play there too.

jules77
06-11-2011, 06:22 PM
Im a Miami Heat fan so I know he will always be known for there. He still signed on the dotted line. Yes I can a former defensive player of the year and all star a good signing. Seems like you dont like the Nets and I find it funny. With all this hate the Nets must really have gotten you angry about something. Jason Kidd and Vince Carter were traded to the Nets but still resigned with Nets when their contract was up. I dont care if the Nets dont have as many fans as the Knicks as long as they are winning is all that matters to me. I dont understand the obbsession about fan support, Miami Heat never had the best fans do you think it bothers them? Nope because they have 3 all stars and are in the finals.

He signed on the dotted line cause Riley wasnt going to give him that kinda of $$..nobody hates the Nets lol..I just stated facts that they are losing a lot of S..Good signing he played 30 games for the NETS? lol he loved it so much he wanted out..I know Zo personally he couldnt wait to leave Sunny Florida to go to the swamps of NJ lol...he was ring chasing dude..buy a clue....Fan support is crucial thats the difference between being a Staple franchise of the league or a team on the fringes like the Hornets, the Nets..because its entertainment but its a business also.

DoMeFavors
06-11-2011, 06:27 PM
He signed on the dotted line cause Riley wasnt going to give him that kinda of $$..nobody hates the Nets lol..I just stated facts that they are losing a lot of S..Good signing he played 30 games for the NETS? lol he loved it so much he wanted out..I know Zo personally he couldnt wait to leave Sunny Florida to go to the swamps of NJ lol...he was ring chasing dude..buy a clue....Fan support is crucial thats the difference between being a Staple franchise of the league or a team on the fringes like the Hornets, the Nets..because its entertainment but its a business also.

Yeah he wanted out because they were losing, he could have gone anywhere else but he picked the Nets. Hornets arent close to the Nets, I dont think Hornets are in a major city with an owner like the Nets coach. You are seeing billboards all over NYC of Deron in Nets jersey. You dont see Chris Paul in a Hornets jersey all over NYC. Nets started falling into a terrible team when their former owner traded all their big pieces and Rod Thorn drafted terrible players and traded for bad players like Yi and Lee. Deron im sure will recruit some nice players to the Nets this offseason, and Billy King will make some trades. I can tell you the team this year will be a lot difference than the team next year.

ne3xchamps
06-11-2011, 06:46 PM
What does Kidd retiring have to do with this? Deron isn't a FA in '11-'12.

Oh ****, my bad. I thought he was a free agent this year.:o

That just means they will have more off the books by then.

BklynKnicks3
06-11-2011, 06:50 PM
not if but when lol. Only chance is howard comes

jules77
06-11-2011, 06:51 PM
Yeah he wanted out because they were losing, he could have gone anywhere else but he picked the Nets. Hornets arent close to the Nets, I dont think Hornets are in a major city with an owner like the Nets coach. You are seeing billboards all over NYC of Deron in Nets jersey. You dont see Chris Paul in a Hornets jersey all over NYC. Nets started falling into a terrible team when their former owner traded all their big pieces and Rod Thorn drafted terrible players and traded for bad players like Yi and Lee. Deron im sure will recruit some nice players to the Nets this offseason, and Billy King will make some trades. I can tell you the team this year will be a lot difference than the team next year.

Nah Nets contract was Uninsured just like the Amare contract..actually Hornets out drew the Nets this year lol!! Hornets finished 26th in attendance Nets finished 28th. Playing in a "Big Market". Lebron was right contract them fools! Lol Billboards are going to get Deron to sign ooh..truth is yall get some B and C free agents win 35 games and trade Deron for some picks next year.

jules77
06-11-2011, 06:55 PM
Let's say I'm a big time NBA superstar and Deron calls me with his recruiting pitch first thing I'm going to ask him is yo dawg why aint u sign yet??? (assuming he doesn't sign after July) I rest my case

DoMeFavors
06-11-2011, 09:18 PM
Let's say I'm a big time NBA superstar and Deron calls me with his recruiting pitch first thing I'm going to ask him is yo dawg why aint u sign yet??? (assuming he doesn't sign after July) I rest my case

I am really convinced you just hate the nets, I wouldnt post that about a team I didnt care about. Why do you not like the Nets in general just asking. Dont lie and make up something just tell me why you dont like them. Because to me it seems like you just hate them a lot. And I dont expect the Nets to draw a lot the major market here is NY/NJ and Knicks have always been the more liked team, It doesnt bother me. Nets won 12 games last year and didnt really get a star player till Deron and then attendance went up.

KnicksR4Real
06-11-2011, 09:32 PM
it would be unbelievably bad

jules77
06-12-2011, 12:59 AM
I am really convinced you just hate the nets, I wouldnt post that about a team I didnt care about. Why do you not like the Nets in general just asking. Dont lie and make up something just tell me why you dont like them. Because to me it seems like you just hate them a lot. And I dont expect the Nets to draw a lot the major market here is NY/NJ and Knicks have always been the more liked team, It doesnt bother me. Nets won 12 games last year and didnt really get a star player till Deron and then attendance went up.

Dude I'm from New Jersey I dont hate the Nets, I see headlines so of course I want to know whats going down with my hometown team. I keep it real though and not get blinded by fandom. They have irrelevant for a while now and they are fighting to become relevant and they D Will contract situation is an obstacle in their way. Right now I say its 50/50 he leaves or stays. Just want to see what Brooklyn is really going to bring not just in year 1 but many years after that as well.

EaglePride615
06-12-2011, 01:08 AM
i hope it doesnt happen. id like the nets to be somewhat good. would love to see some drose vs derron williams playoff battles.

DoMeFavors
06-12-2011, 01:11 AM
Dude I'm from New Jersey I dont hate the Nets, I see headlines so of course I want to know whats going down with my hometown team. I keep it real though and not get blinded by fandom. They have irrelevant for a while now and they are fighting to become relevant and they D Will contract situation is an obstacle in their way. Right now I say its 50/50 he leaves or stays. Just want to see what Brooklyn is really going to bring not just in year 1 but many years after that as well.

Ok so whos your team?

76erEaglePhils
06-12-2011, 01:17 AM
Reminds me of Hedo kind of he signed an extension with Toronto but wanted out the next year and they were forced to trade him. So I guess that kind of compares.The two situations aren't even close. I believe Hedo signed with Toronto as a free-agent and, that just didn't pan out. New Jersey gave Utah a king's ransom for a guy that may not resign with them and, I don't see why he would. He was traded to a team that is 100x worse than what he left in Utah.

DoMeFavors
06-12-2011, 01:20 AM
The two situations aren't even close. I believe Hedo signed with Toronto as a free-agent and, that just didn't pan out. New Jersey gave Utah a king's ransom for a guy that may not resign with them and, I don't see why he would. He was traded to a team that is 100x worse than what he left in Utah.

They are 100x worse than the team he got traded for, but Nets have 20 million in cap to spend and King said he will be active in trades to get veterans and players around Dwill. We will see how it plays out, this current Nets team isnt going to please Deron, I think Nets will bring in some nice players.

Spencesc11
06-12-2011, 01:35 AM
They should really push to sign Caron Butler and David West. I would let Humphries walk. He will require more than he is worth.

So a starting lineup next year of

D. Williams, Morrow, Butler, West, and Lopez would be pretty tight. Should be at least good enough for 46 wins and 6th in the East next year.

DoMeFavors
06-12-2011, 01:37 AM
They should really push to sign Caron Butler and David West. I would let Humphries walk. He will require more than he is worth.

So a starting lineup next year of

D. Williams, Morrow, Butler, West, and Lopez would be pretty tight. Should be at least good enough for 46 wins and 6th in the East next year.

David West has a torn ACL and I doubt he will be ready for training camp, plus you dont know how he will come back from that.

76erEaglePhils
06-12-2011, 01:38 AM
They are 100x worse than the team he got traded for, but Nets have 20 million in cap to spend and King said he will be active in trades to get veterans and players around Dwill. We will see how it plays out, this current Nets team isnt going to please Deron, I think Nets will bring in some nice players.Saying they will bring in good players and, actually making that happen are two different things. Lol Billy King he was the same idiot that killed the Sixers for years with his stupidity. You say you have 20mil in cap space we'll that isn't enough. King will have spent all that scrilla up in just two crappy signings. Good luck with that moron the best thing he did for Philly was leave and, clean up the mess he created for us for years.

DoMeFavors
06-12-2011, 01:43 AM
Saying they will bring in good players and, actually making that happen are two different things. Lol Billy King he was the same idiot that killed the Sixers for years with his stupidity. You say you have 20mil in cap space we'll that isn't enough. King will have spent all that scrilla up in just two crappy signings. Good luck with that moron the best thing he did for Philly was leave and, clean up the mess he created for us for years.

I love King he got us Deron and made some good trades, I am happy Thorn is no longer here that guy was clueless. Thorn cant draft a single player, check his drafting in the last 10 years like nobody is still in the league. Thorn also made terrible trades. King did get you guys to the finals and atleast put good talent around AI.

kozelkid
06-12-2011, 01:54 AM
I got this JF.

It wasn't supposed to make the Nets look good, per se. It was just illustrating that the reason the Nets didn't lure any free agents last season was not because they weren't interested in the team's future, but instead because of mitigating circumstances.

LeBron has stated on multiple occasions that the most impressive presentation last summer was the one made by the Nets (headed by Prokhorov, Jay-Z, Rod Thorn and Avery Johnson). However, it appears evident that he already had his mind set on joining Wade in Miami, so nothing was going to change his mind.

The Nets opted not to sign Boozer and Amare. It wasn't that they weren't willing to spend money; instead, it was a measure of fiscal responsibility.

False. Nets offered Boozer a contract. However, he blew them off.
http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2010/07/nets_stunned_by_carlos_boozers.html

Either way, you make a nice point for your NJ Nets; it's too bad only NJ fans like yourself see eye-to-eye with you.

Just like 2010, Knicks, Bulls, Heat, Cleveland, and Miami fans all thought they had the best chance to get Lebron, except he only chose one.

For the record, I do think D-Will will resign with NJ. However, expecting Howard to be a Net is a stretch. They don't have better pieces to offer for Howard than say LA, Chicago, OKC or LAC nor do they have a better situation than any of the 4. Howard's priority is winning, and NJ is the farthest of the 5.

Right now, Howard becoming a Net is a long shot. However, nothing wrong with being optimistic.

GiantsSwaGG
06-12-2011, 02:18 AM
False. Nets offered Boozer a contract. However, he blew them off.
http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2010/07/nets_stunned_by_carlos_boozers.html

Either way, you make a nice point for your NJ Nets; it's too bad only NJ fans like yourself see eye-to-eye with you.

Just like 2010, Knicks, Bulls, Heat, Cleveland, and Miami fans all thought they had the best chance to get Lebron, except he only chose one.

For the record, I do think D-Will will resign with NJ. However, expecting Howard to be a Net is a stretch. They don't have better pieces to offer for Howard than say LA, Chicago, OKC or LAC nor do they have a better situation than any of the 4. Howard's priority is winning, and NJ is the farthest of the 5.

Right now, Howard becoming a Net is a long shot. However, nothing wrong with being optimistic.

This pretty much sums it up...

GiantsSwaGG
06-12-2011, 02:28 AM
Of course, the Heat came out great. We've already gone over that. However ... did the Knicks and Bulls "come out huge" (pause)?

There was no doubt that Stoudemire would produce in the early stages of his uninsured contract; the risk came later in the deal. Sure, the Knicks look good now -- although they'll never compete for a championship as currently constructed -- but how will they look if Amare's knees give out when he has two years and forty million remaining on the contract.

The Bulls certainly don't look good with the Boozer signing. Sure, they captured the 1st seed and made a run to the Eastern Conference Finals, but that was a result of Thibodeu's defensive system and the emergence of Derrick Rose -- it had nothing to do with Boozer. In fact, that Boozer contract is looking like an amnesty worthy one.

If I decide not to **** a girl because I've heard that she's dirty and my friend goes forward with it and closes does that mean that I ****ed up? In the short-term it might look like it, but we have to see how things pan out. Does it mean that I'll never be able to get another girl? No. It was one offseason; it's not the end-all be-all.

You also forgot since they didn't sign none of those free agent
s and traded away almost all there asset for a pg who isn't a lock resigning with them...and lets say he doesn't, doesn't that make the nets look worse?

LakersIn5
06-12-2011, 02:41 AM
dwill would not resign.

76erEaglePhils
06-12-2011, 03:07 AM
I love King he got us Deron and made some good trades, I am happy Thorn is no longer here that guy was clueless. Thorn cant draft a single player, check his drafting in the last 10 years like nobody is still in the league. Thorn also made terrible trades. King did get you guys to the finals and atleast put good talent around AI.Lol on your entire post. He took a huge Gamble and made trades i'm not even aware of don't get all pumped up already the King experience has just begun. The Nets would have been better off signing Jay-Z. I wonder if Kenny Thomas is still a FA you Nets fans should be very afraid. I can just see it now. Future Headline: After 5 years of failure, Billy King missing. Main Suspects: Russian Mob.

LA_Raiders
06-12-2011, 03:47 AM
he will be traded before that happens...