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View Full Version : Five 4th quarters: Lebron with a total of 11 points in 60 minutes



LTBaByyy
06-10-2011, 12:39 AM
Is Miami doing something not getting James involved or is James just not being clutch at all?

Hawkeye15
06-10-2011, 12:40 AM
Its on James honestly. He is being so passive, its ridiculous.

DamnGoat
06-10-2011, 12:43 AM
Its on James honestly. He is being so passive, its ridiculous.
I'm not even sure that he's being passive, he's just missing his shots. If it wasn't a dunk or a layup in this game he missed it.

koreancabbage
06-10-2011, 12:44 AM
another James thread. omg.

but seriously the guy has been LeGhost in the 4th quarter.

D Roses Bulls
06-10-2011, 12:46 AM
it really makes me mad when people call him the King. A king knows how to close and he surely doesn't. Lebron is who some of us thought he was. 11 points in the 4th quarter is embarrassing.

29$JerZ
06-10-2011, 12:46 AM
Imo Dallas is defending James perfectly.
They are making him into a passer and the mentality that his shot is failing right now is making him even more passive.

Wade/Bosh have the right idea taking shots they want. LeBron however is jacking up 3's from no where land and you can see he is losing confidence in his offense right now.

May be he is under pressure to succeed, may be he doesn't want to be singled out for failing in the clutch so he is setting up people, and may be Dallas is just playing great defense.

Imo the Zone is making things harder for LeBron.

210Don
06-10-2011, 12:48 AM
lj deserves a 2011 mavericks championship ring

billyocean15
06-10-2011, 12:51 AM
god i can't wait to see the mavs close this out. lebron is terrible!!! this will certainly hurt his legacy

Mell413
06-10-2011, 12:53 AM
I think he's being too passive myself. Do we really need another Lebron thread though? This forum is a joke as it is I don't think we need a Lebron thread everytime he breathes. I'd wager that most of us are in our 20's. You would think ppl would be a little more mature.

MattColby
06-10-2011, 12:56 AM
LOLebron

Hawkize31
06-10-2011, 01:02 AM
Lebron is still better than any player on any team you happen to like. Thats not debatable if you understand basketball at all.

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-10-2011, 01:06 AM
Lebron is still better than any player on any team you happen to like. Thats not debatable if you understand basketball at all.

In the regular season. Absolutely

fadedmario
06-10-2011, 01:07 AM
I can't wait to hear Skip Bayless tomorrow.

topdog
06-10-2011, 01:11 AM
He's shooting jumpers trying to be dramatic or something. He gets to the basket all throughout the 3rd quarter and then he decides he's Ray Allen in the 4th.

This is one reason I'd argue he's not the best player - he doesn't trust his own game when it counts. Your an athlete not a shooter, 'Bron.

cali72888
06-10-2011, 01:24 AM
I am sorry but he is just pathetic. It is one thing to get a triple double, but he is just filling his stats and doing nothing to help his team. Michael Beasley would be a better asset to this team rite now.

sventhedog
06-10-2011, 01:31 AM
man. you're clearly looking at one side of the floor. lebron is a 2-way player. did you look at the tape??? watch how he played defense and ask him another question.

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-10-2011, 01:37 AM
His main problem in the 4th is that Wade has been so good. Lebron is trying to let Wade do his thing, but that makes Lebron useless. He does not spread the floor, and he does not set screens for others. When Wade drives, Lebron is supposed to move into an open area to allow an easy outlet pass to Wade. Instead he stands in the corner like a lost puppy.

People say Lebron has no weakness in his game. Well that is a very big one. He can play one way and one way only. Which makes it difficult to put players around him that wont stunt his stats, and still allow him to win a championship.

pables21
06-10-2011, 01:39 AM
I have been a huge LeBron fan since his first year in the NBA, and I have always thought that he could lead teams to championships, just not in Cleveland. He has been phenomenal this season and in every round of the playoffs. But in these Finals, for some reason that I can't even fathom, he has just blanked out on the game's biggest stage. I never expected this and I hate watching it, but even the biggest LeBron defender can't back him up for this series.

He is crumbling under the pressure and is shying away from the big spotlight. For the past few games, I have been nothing but bewildered at the invisible performances that LeBron has displayed in the 4th quarters. Doesn't he want this title? Doesn't he want to boost his legacy and start fulfilling his massive potential? For a guy who has all the talent in the world and had the potential to be an all-time great, he is just not delivering. It's inexcusable and there is no reason for it.

He has a choice to make, and he has to make a decision right now. Either:

1) Wake up out of this funk, play his normal game and lead the Heat to a championship, all while shutting up some of the haters in the process, or:

2) Continue to let the pressure scare him and witness an absolute nightmare of a summer, full of more media scrutiny and fan backlash than any NBA player will have received in decades; he will become the laughingstock of the NBA.

All he has to do to avoid #2? Just PLAY HIS GAME. If he does this, Miami is fine. It's not that hard. So LeBron, what's it gonna be? Show us what you've got

LTBaByyy
06-10-2011, 01:40 AM
man. you're clearly looking at one side of the floor. lebron is a 2-way player. did you look at the tape??? watch how he played defense and ask him another question.

Ummm he guarded Terry all 5 games in the 4th

And Terry has been ballin!!

LA_Raiders
06-10-2011, 01:41 AM
Chosen One... Nuff Said...

WarriorFan4Life
06-10-2011, 01:43 AM
Would it be crazy for Miami to eventually trade Lebron and have bosh and wade be the focal point of this team? I mean, he is hurting them by being so inactive for most of this series. It seems like wade and bosh would be better served trading Lebron and getting some nice players around him.

I mean, wade had a hip injury tonight in game 5 and he was still more effective than lebron james was.

NYY NYJ NYK
06-10-2011, 01:45 AM
He bugged out big time. It absolutely pathetic.
The King, The Chosen One, The Next Jordan :laugh2:

WarriorFan4Life
06-10-2011, 01:47 AM
I think wade is looking more like jordan than lebron is looking like jordan!

C-Style
06-10-2011, 01:51 AM
lebron is still better than any player on any team you happen to like during the season

fixed!

DODGERS&LAKERS
06-10-2011, 01:52 AM
Ummm he guarded Terry all 5 games in the 4th

And Terry has been ballin!!

He was obviously mocking James for his comment the other day. Man, you and Drobe need to stop being so sensitive. You guys have that beaten puppy syndrome and think everyone is out to get you. We are pulling for the Mavs, allow us to come close and pet you without biting our hand cause you have been mistreaded in the past

ne3xchamps
06-10-2011, 01:57 AM
Another Lebron thread... great. :facepalm:

Get off his jock already.

ne3xchamps
06-10-2011, 01:58 AM
He was obviously mocking James for his comment the other day. Man, you and Drobe need to stop being so sensitive. You guys have that beaten puppy syndrome and think everyone is out to get you. We are pulling for the Mavs, allow us to come close and pet you without biting our hand cause you have been mistreaded in the past

:laugh:

Lakers + Giants
06-10-2011, 01:59 AM
I love how Marion and Stevenson guarding him has nothing to do with his performance :rolleyes:

Lakerhead4ever
06-10-2011, 02:05 AM
its funny because ppl are sooo quick to say hes the best player in the league.. but what dos that matter if your not winning championships?

who cares if hes the best in the league? no one cares. point is he fails for than he prevails, and that what lebron fans dont see.

this guys fails on the highest stages of basketball. and been doing that since he was a cav. now he decides to go ghost in the finals?? and this is the best player on this universe?? never.

this is why mj says kobe is the best because he knows what it takes to win championships, and the fear ppl have for the names like kobe and ducan and shaq, those players get it done when the team needs them.

wade is showing some of the championship toughness, which has surprised me.

sventhedog
06-10-2011, 02:07 AM
i maybe wrong but lebron probably just thinks that way.

lebron's brain: i already did my part, i already got my triple double and that is in the finals, i played better than game 4 so you gotta blame someone else now. are you still expecting me to carry the team in the 4th?

Mrphilly
06-10-2011, 02:09 AM
it really makes me mad when people call him the King. A king knows how to close and he surely doesn't. Lebron is who some of us thought he was. 11 points in the 4th quarter is embarrassing.

Why does that make you mad, its just a nickname. His last name is James, Its a very easy nickname to come up with.

I guess you hate Felix Hernadez too. Lebron is not the only King in sports, its just a nickname.


With that being said, that **** I seen from Bron is sad!!!!:facepalm:

phantasyyy
06-10-2011, 02:24 AM
lebron has other things on his mind... if you know what i mean ;)

MTar786
06-10-2011, 02:36 AM
scottie compared lebron to the wrong bull.

everyday lebron is looking more like LePip James

faridk89
06-10-2011, 02:38 AM
Watch out Miami....Z GERMAN IS COMING!!!

SP17
06-10-2011, 02:50 AM
When james do good in the next 2 games this will all be forgotten..lol

Voodoo Alchemy
06-10-2011, 03:05 AM
problem is the heat have no identity on offense. if i remember hearing correctly, spoelstra said he doesn't care about offense. offense and defense wins championships.

c's were a great defensive team 3 years ago but they also were efficient on offense. garnett hit the midrange, pierce was a great shooter and closer, allen was money from the 3, rondo attacked the basket at will, their bench had key players that made contributions. i don't see any of that in this heat team. they have 2 great athletic guys and....and....and...

Lim
06-10-2011, 04:11 AM
In the regular season. Absolutely

LeBron James Career Playoff stats:

G MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
90 43.6 0.460 0.325 0.748 8.4 7.0 1.7 1.0 28.2

just because lebron has been meh in these finals doesn't mean he isnt the best player on the planet, regular season and playoffs.

Jewelz0376
06-10-2011, 04:15 AM
LeBron James Career Playoff stats:

G MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
90 43.6 0.460 0.325 0.748 8.4 7.0 1.7 1.0 28.2

just because lebron has been meh in these finals doesn't mean he inst the best player on the planet, regular season and playoffs.

how do you expect anyone to concentrate on your posts with that sig??

sventhedog
06-10-2011, 04:17 AM
LeBron James Career Playoff stats:

G MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
90 43.6 0.460 0.325 0.748 8.4 7.0 1.7 1.0 28.2

just because lebron has been meh in these finals doesn't mean he isnt the best player on the planet, regular season and playoffs.

yah i agree. 4th quarters and nba finals rarely matters.

Lim
06-10-2011, 04:28 AM
yah i agree. 4th quarters and nba finals rarely matters.

its been 5 games dude. NBA careers are a marathon not a sprint. when lebrons careers is over and he still hasnt done **** in the finals, THEN you have a point. mj didnt win a ring until he was 28.. was he a choke artist up until then?

sventhedog
06-10-2011, 04:32 AM
its been 5 games dude. NBA careers are a marathon not a sprint. when lebrons careers is over and he still hasnt done **** in the finals, THEN you have a point. mj didnt win a ring until he was 28.. was he a choke artist up until then?

oh you didn't get my sarcastic tone with that post.

Lim
06-10-2011, 04:33 AM
oh you didn't get my sarcastic tone with that post.

? i did

Dallas Tx4Life
06-10-2011, 05:28 AM
Lebron has disappointed me in the worst way and im on the brink of no longer being a fan... Bron Bron, why have you sucked so bad? Why has your whole career been a facade? I am the biggest Lebron fan I know, but I dont support players that dont try as hard as they can... This has been a long and sad night.

nycericanguy
06-10-2011, 08:15 AM
I realized watching this game last night why Lebron didn't come to NY, or at least part of the reason.

Lebron is a great player, but he doesn't want to be the man. This has been said alot in the media but last night I really saw it. He just wants to be one of the guys. He didn't want to have the pressure of being the #1 guy or even the #1 guy with a sidekick.

Wade on the other hand, you can tell he wanted to be the guy last night, he was going to take the game and either win it or lose it. Dirk also wanted the ball every time down court, these guys wanted the pressure. I think Lebron really might be tired of all the attention and just wants to be a regular guy in a sense.

jockrider
06-10-2011, 08:21 AM
it really makes me mad when people call him the King. A king knows how to close and he surely doesn't. Lebron is who some of us thought he was. 11 points in the 4th quarter is embarrassing.

shooting 9.8% in the fourth in the ecf is even worse:D:atleast lebron knows to stop shooting when he's cold.

MagicHero3
06-10-2011, 08:36 AM
queen james.

but i still wouldnt put it passed him to come up big the next two games.
anything can happen still, both games are at home and Miami balls out at home.

jp611
06-10-2011, 08:44 AM
man. you're clearly looking at one side of the floor. lebron is a 2-way player. did you look at the tape??? watch how he played defense and ask him another question.

Yeah, he got torched by Jason Terry

valade16
06-10-2011, 08:45 AM
its been 5 games dude. NBA careers are a marathon not a sprint. when lebrons careers is over and he still hasnt done **** in the finals, THEN you have a point. mj didnt win a ring until he was 28.. was he a choke artist up until then?

So your giving him credit for the titkes he MIGHT win in the future? Sorry, but he isn't going to win a single title getting 11 4th quarter points in 5 games...

It's not that MJ didn't win a ring, it's the stats he got while not winning. He was incredible in the series against the Pistons. If LeBron were putting up monster stats or even playing like he gave a **** it'd be different.

I mean, nobody is calling Howard a choke artist even though he lost a finals and got bounced in the 1st this year. That's because he played like he desperately wanted to win and put up stats.

And before you say "LeBron had a triple double, that's not too shabby". Your not telling me LeBron's a good or even great player; your telling me he's the best player on the planet. His #'s should reflect that. The best player on the planet shouldn't score as much as JJ Barea...

SportsAndrew25
06-10-2011, 08:46 AM
Lebron just came to Miami so that someone else can win him a title. He will never be that gamer Jordan was.

AndyfromNeptune
06-10-2011, 09:11 AM
Lebron has disappointed me in the worst way and im on the brink of no longer being a fan... Bron Bron, why have you sucked so bad? Why has your whole career been a facade? I am the biggest Lebron fan I know, but I dont support players that dont try as hard as they can... This has been a long and sad night.

Lebron has been the subject of much controversy in terms of his ability to play hard

dodie53
06-10-2011, 09:13 AM
passive
passive
passive

SteBO
06-10-2011, 09:42 AM
I'm willing to give Dallas' D credit here. LeBron hasn't himself lately, and don't ask me why because I simply don't know. He's a talent, and has time to grow into fourth quarter performer consistently, but he clearly isn't quite there yet. Wade's been there and done that, and he's come through.

m26555
06-10-2011, 09:42 AM
LeBron's problems, and Jon Barry pointed them out emphatically last night, are that 1.) he has no clue what to do without the basketball, and 2.) he is clueless what to do when he gets the ball in the post.

I actually think James is a much more one-dimensional scorer than people like to admit. He is great at getting to the basket; that's it. He isn't a good shooter, he isn't good in the post, and he doesn't know what to do when the ball isn't in his hands.

Mile High Champ
06-10-2011, 09:58 AM
11 points in the 4th quarter? When I saw this stat on sports center last night, I could not believe my eyes. I knew it was bad but this bad? Unbelievable how Lebron has fallen way off in these finals. I have no idea why Lebron is hiding in the 4th quarter to be honest, this is his team and he is enjoy playing third fiddle to Bosh and Wade. In game 4 he did not he even an attempt a single shot in the 4th and a similar story in game 5 yesterday. The thing that is frustrating for me watching is why Lebron refuses to drive to the basket, has he turned into Vince Carter? Lebron should know by now that he is at his best when he taking the ball hard to the basket.

We are witnessing one of the greats finals collapses ever by a single player, I hope all you non heat fans are enjoying this.

jp611
06-10-2011, 10:02 AM
Last night he made his 1st field goal in the 4th quarter since there was 11:49 left in Game 3

ILMindState
06-10-2011, 10:23 AM
I saw LeBron after the game last night and asked him to borrow $1. He gave me $0.75 and I said where's the rest? He said "Sorry I don't have a 4th quarter"

MagicHero3
06-10-2011, 10:43 AM
I saw LeBron after the game last night and asked him to borrow $1. He gave me $0.75 and I said where's the rest? He said "Sorry I don't have a 4th quarter"

ill give this joke a 6 out of 10

LongWayFromHome
06-10-2011, 11:00 AM
I saw LeBron after the game last night and asked him to borrow $1. He gave me $0.75 and I said where's the rest? He said "Sorry I don't have a 4th quarter"

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

LongWayFromHome
06-10-2011, 11:01 AM
seriously though. I hope dude doesnt get "Derrick Rose fever" and realize what he needs to improve on during the off season. That would be really frickin scary.

jockrider
06-10-2011, 11:10 AM
seriously though. I hope dude doesnt get "Derrick Rose fever" and realize what he needs to improve on during the off season. That would be really frickin scary.

nah he shouldn't emulate rose anymore he's choking in the fourth like him now smh.

Mile High Champ
06-10-2011, 11:12 AM
The best player today should be judged on what a player has done through the course of his years in the NBA compared to the other great players currently. You don't just base it off one series. Don't let these Finals cloud your judgement.


I agree to a certain extent but you are not the best player in the league when you only score 11 point in the 4th quarter in 5 games of the NBA finals. I can't ignore that statistic and nor should I. Is Lebron the most athletic and talented player in the league? Probably but that does not make him the best player in the league. I am giving that title to Dirk Nowitzki, especially after what he has done in this post season and the NBA finals. I am sorry but your heat bias is coming through big time on this one.

macc
06-10-2011, 11:16 AM
Another day, another Lebron/Heat hate thread.....go figure. The guy gets a tripple double in the finals and people still hate on him. This is just becoming laughable now

SteBO
06-10-2011, 11:32 AM
I agree to a certain extent but you are not the best player in the league when you only score 11 point in the 4th quarter in 5 games of the NBA finals. I can't ignore that statistic and nor should I. Is Lebron the most athletic and talented player in the league? Probably but that does not make him the best player in the league. I am giving that title to Dirk Nowitzki, especially after what he has done in this post season and the NBA finals. I am sorry but your heat bias is coming through big time on this one.
You're basing this on one year though. If you read my post again, I'm talking about a whole body of work, not one series, and not one year. How about giving credit to the Mavs' team defense, instead of nit picking LeBron's offensive play? Why do you think Dallas is in the Finals? James hasn't been good in the fourth quarter of games, and that's evident, but there are other factors that go into it. Wade has the better matchup advantage. Dallas has a great defensive for LeBron. That simple. Not hard to understand. Watch the games and you'll realize that.

LeBron is the best player in the league, despite how this series unfolds. Sorry, but you need to look up bias before giving that title to me because that's far from the truth, no disrespect to you sir.

uptownfan
06-10-2011, 11:33 AM
Another day, another Lebron/Heat hate thread.....go figure. The guy gets a tripple double in the finals and people still hate on him. This is just becoming laughable now

Have you even been watching the Finals? He's been a totally different player. He's underachieving. There's really nothing else that needs to be said. This is not "hate." LeBron averaged 26.7 points per game in the regular season. He's only come close to that once this series. 11 points in the 4th quarter in 5 games? That's just brutal for a superstar of his stature.

RaiderLakersA's
06-10-2011, 11:36 AM
Lebron is still better than any player on any team you happen to like. Thats not debatable if you understand basketball at all.

Wrong.

He is unquestionably more physically gifted than any player on just about every roster in the NBA...but that doesn't make him better.

What makes the great ones great, even when they are no longer in their prime, are intangibles like will and mindset. I swear if I see LeBron take another 3 point shot in a hotly contested 4th quarter under the mindset that "I've made those shots before," (paraphrasing his words) I'm going to throw a brick at the TV.

With his physical attributes, everything should go to the rim in the 4th. It's crunch time, LeBron needs to have the mindset to get his big *** in the post or penetrate and finish strong. Stop bailing out the defense by taking perimeter shots. He did it in Cleveland. He's doing it now in Miami. When will he learn?

To quote Apollo Creed, "There is NO tomorrow, Rock. There is no tomorrow!!!" LeBron is missing that mentality. Until he gets it, don't bother trying to sell me on him being the best player in the game on any team. The fact is D. Wade is outplaying him in these Finals. And it's not even close.

jockrider
06-10-2011, 11:40 AM
Wrong.

He is unquestionably more physically gifted than any player on just about every roster in the NBA...but that doesn't make him better.

What makes the great ones great, even when they are no longer in their prime, are intangibles like will and mindset. I swear if I see LeBron take another 3 point shot in a hotly contested 4th quarter under the mindset that "I've made those shots before," (paraphrasing his words) I'm going to throw a brick at the TV.

With his physical attributes, everything should go to the rim in the 4th. It's crunch time, LeBron needs to have the mindset to get his big *** in the post or penetrate and finish strong. Stop bailing out the defense by taking perimeter shots. He did it in Cleveland. He's doing it now in Miami. When will he learn?

To quote Apollo Creed, "There is NO tomorrow, Rock. There is no tomorrow!!!" LeBron is missing that mentality. Until he gets it, don't bother trying to sell me on him being the best player in the game on any team. The fact is D. Wade is outplaying him in these Finals. And it's not even close.

wade is his only challenge to him for best player with durant rose dwight cp3 etching closer... kobe obviously isn't even top 6 right now.

Mile High Champ
06-10-2011, 11:41 AM
You're basing this on one year though. If you read my post again, I'm talking about a whole body of work, not one series, and not one year. How about giving credit to the Mavs' team defense, instead of nit picking LeBron's offensive play? Why do you think Dallas is in the Finals? James hasn't been good in the fourth quarter of games, and that's evident, but there are other factors that go into it. Wade has the better matchup advantage. Dallas has a great defensive for LeBron. That simple. Not hard to understand. Watch the games and you'll realize that.

LeBron is the best player in the league, despite how this series unfolds. Sorry, but you need to look up bias before giving that title to me because that's far from the truth, no disrespect to you sir.

Yeah and we are talking about his whole body of work. I would of called Kobe the best player in the league last year and not Lebron. This season it has clearly been Rose and in the post season it has been Dirk Nowitzki. Yes the Mavs defense has been good but this is not like they're the bad boy Pistons of 80's. There is no reason at all for Lebron to be jacking up 25 foot 3 pointers that are contested instead of getting to the basket. There is no excuses what so ever to be taking this many bad shots late in games or to completely ignore the abilities that made you such a great player. Great players find ways to get it done late in games and Lebron has not done that. Yes he is physically domiant and talented but I am sorry he is not the best player in the league, not after what I have seen from him up to this point. Lebron has a terrific first step and for some reason he has abandoned it and no it is not because of the Dallas defense. His inability to finish late and be smart with the basketball is all on him.

You want to say no disrespect to me but yet you say a lines like this "Watch the games and you'll realize that". I guess I was watching a different NBA finals, perhaps it was FIBA basketball championship. Give me a break. Don't insult me and than say no disrespect. I simply disagreed with your opinion and that does not make me wrong.

Sadds The Gr8
06-10-2011, 11:46 AM
i find it hard as hell to call Lebron the best player in basketball right now. The best player in the world shouldn't fade away in big moments. In ANY sport, where do you see the proclaimed "best player in the world" play like absolute *** hole in a finals?

I could understand if they want Wade to be the closer so his 4th quarter ppg may take a hit, but his performance this finals has been a friggin joke. 11 pts in the 4th quarter...that has to be 3rd or 4th on his own team. That should NEVER happen to the best player in the world.

SteBO
06-10-2011, 11:47 AM
Yeah and we are talking about his whole body of work. I would of called Kobe the best player in the league last year and not Lebron. This season it has clearly been Rose and in the post season it has been Dirk Nowitzki. Yes the Mavs defense has been good but this is not like they are the bad boy Pistons of 80's. There is no reason at all for Lebron to be jacking up 25 foot 3 pointers that are contested instead of getting to the basket. There is no excuses what so ever to be taking this many bad shots late in games or to completely ignore the abilities that made you such a great player. Lebron has a terrific first step and for some reason he has abandoned it and no it is not because of the Dallas defense.

You want to say no disrespect to me but yet you say a lines like this "Watch the games and you'll realize that". I guess I was watching a different NBA finals, perhaps it was FIBA basketball championship. Give me a break. Don't insult me and than say no disresepct. I simply disagreed with your opinion.
I meant highlights there, not games btw. And if you took that as disrespect, then sorry. But you have to realize that the Mavs' defense is doing a excellent job on LeBron forcing those shots. Also, the guy had a triple-double, so it's not like he played bad. Excuse me if I'm in a pissy mood today, for this week has been hell for me.

Simply put, you can't justify LeBron not being the best player in the league just by this series alone, after everything else he's done in the playoffs. That isn't fair to him.

Mile High Champ
06-10-2011, 11:56 AM
I meant highlights there, not games btw. And if you took that as disrespect, then sorry. But you have to realize that the Mavs' defense is doing a excellent job on LeBron forcing those shots. Also, the guy had a triple-double, so it's not like he played bad. Excuse me if I'm in a pissy mood today, for this week has been hell for me.

Simply put, you can't justify LeBron not being the best player in the league just by this series alone, after everything else he's done in the playoffs. That isn't fair to him.

Yes the Mavs have been doing a great job against Lebron, there is no question about that but there is much more to it. Lebron's shot selection is questionable at best. Why is he avoiding the aspects of his game that make him so great? You have yet to answer that question. Lebron has had many opportunities to put the ball on the floor and get to the hoop but he chooses to take contested jumpers. He is settling for those shots.

As the best player on your team, it is up to you to step up late in games and be the guy. I don't care if Lebron had a triple double in the loss, he failed to deliver once again offensively when his team needed it most. You don't see Dirk faltering late in game because of the heats defense (which has been great up to now).

This is not about being fair, it is about be objective. Lebron is a professional basketball player, I don't care about being fair to professional athletes. If Lebron is the best in the game, he should be playing like it. No excuses. Step up and be the guy already because avoiding it certainly does not make you the best of the best in the business.

KnickFanSince91
06-10-2011, 11:56 AM
Dallas has defended him well but what's showing up is that he lacks mental toughness right now. What I mean is that when they cut off the lane a couple possessions, it's like he says "**** it, they won't let me drive" and becomes a finesse player. He's clearly doing too much thinking out there and doesn't have the mentality that he's going to play his game no matter what the circumstances are. He's been terrible in the 4th quarter this whole series because you can almost see him thinking about what people are going to say after the game so he tries to keep it safe.

SteBO
06-10-2011, 12:01 PM
Yes the Mavs have been doing a great job against Lebron, there is no question about that but there is much more to it. Lebron's shot selection is questionable at best. Why is he avoiding the aspects of his game that make him so great? You have yet to answer that question. Lebron has had many opportunities to put the ball on the floor and get to the hoop but he chooses to take contested jumpers. He is settling for those shots.

As the best player on your team, it is up to you to step up late in games and be the guy. I don't care if Lebron had a triple double in the loss, he failed to deliver once again offensively when his team needed it most. You don't see Dirk faltering late in game because of the heats defense (which has been great up to now).

This is not about being fair, it is about be objective. Lebron is a professional basketball player, I don't care about being fair to professional athletes. If Lebron is the best in the game, he should be playing like it. No excuses. Step up and be the guy already because avoiding it certainly does not make you the best of the best in the business.
Can't argue with this. But how can he do what you say he should do, which I agree with, if Wade has the favorable matchup here? The Heat have Wade, and LeBron. The only star Dallas has is Dirk, and he's the favorable player in any matchup he's in. Nobody, and I mean nobody on Dallas can guard Dwyane Wade. He's the guy we have that exploit Dallas more than LeBron can. It's all about matchups, and it doesn't favor LeBron much, as good as he is. You say it isn't about being fair, but that's exacly the case. Wade has it going, you milk it, but not too much. LeBron has been too reliant on Wade, and that's the problem I have.

RaiderLakersA's
06-10-2011, 12:05 PM
wade is his only challenge to him for best player with durant rose dwight cp3 etching closer... kobe obviously isn't even top 6 right now.

Give me a healthy Kobe over anyone in the league right now, especially in a crucial, yet winnable 4th quarter of the Finals.

jockrider
06-10-2011, 12:08 PM
Give me a healthy Kobe over anyone in the league right now, especially in a crucial, yet winnable 4th quarter of the Finals.

naw he lost a step he's clearly not even in the top 5 he did just get swept with HCA

dirk,rose,lebron,wade,cp3,durant all better options at this point.

KmB728
06-10-2011, 12:09 PM
More like 9... that last bucket was a gimmie Dallas had already sealed the win

AddiX
06-10-2011, 12:11 PM
"are you having trouble with pressure in the 4th quarter?"
"I don't think so, I don't believe so, I know I'm not."

This guy is falling apart before our eyes, people act like this 4th quarter problem is something new. Are we forgetting the 5 games in a row they lost in the last seconds becuase of his misses late?

Reminder to ball fans, if your not a good shooter, and not a good free throw shooter you can't be a true go to guy in the NBA. And that's bron for you, he can stuff stats, but once those lanes are gone, so does his scoring ability.

koreancabbage
06-10-2011, 12:11 PM
everyone/most know Lebron is underachieving huge

and its okay to call him out for not exerting himself in the last 4 games of these finals, cuz its expected of it.

I think people are just really scared of when Lebron really does show up at all in this series, cuz if Lebron does show up, this is a no-contest, Miami for the win- they've (Dallas) been so close every game and Lebron isn't even in the game (mentally)

people are just kicking him when he's down. i understand that. i just hope this guy has killer instinct that is required from him. championships aren't easy if he's wondering.

SteBO
06-10-2011, 12:16 PM
When are we going to credit Dallas' defense more? I feel like you guys are doing a diservice to them by not even mentioning the fact that maybe they're doing a great job getting the ball out of his hands and taking him out of a rhythm.

CLASSOF72
06-10-2011, 12:22 PM
All this proves it that a team given todays defensive rules that allow zones and doubles can affectively shut out any one player regardless of skill level. It makes the Jordan comparisons much more believable - not for Lewanda, but for kobe.

Dnovakovic099
06-10-2011, 12:26 PM
When are we going to credit Dallas' defense more? I feel like you guys are doing a diservice to them by not even mentioning the fact that maybe they're doing a great job getting the ball out of his hands and taking him out of a rhythm.

Miami has a better defense than Dallas, so why can't they stop Dirk? The thing is LeBron isn't really playing bad, he is just not playing at all. His defense on Terry has been unmotivated. On offense he sort of stands around and when he gets the ball he just passes is right away after a couple of dribbles. How about splitting a double team LeBron? How about getting up on Terry so he can't just shoot in your face all day? How about you just stop shooting threes because you are average at best at them?

Dnovakovic099
06-10-2011, 12:30 PM
All this proves it that a team given todays defensive rules that allow zones and doubles can affectively shut out any one player regardless of skill level. It makes the Jordan comparisons much more believable - not for Lewanda, but for kobe.

Not true. LeBron is just too big and not flexible enough to split defenders at a regular basis. Dwyane Wade can do it.

haggis
06-10-2011, 12:30 PM
When are we going to credit Dallas' defense more? I feel like you guys are doing a diservice to them by not even mentioning the fact that maybe they're doing a great job getting the ball out of his hands and taking him out of a rhythm.

Stebo-

I know you're a rational Heat fan, and an objective NBA fan. This isn't a question about Dallas' defensive. Yes, they've been very good in this series.

The issue here is that LeBron is the supposed best player in the NBA, and when you're given that title (warranted or not), these types of performances are completely unacceptable. Even if the defense is absolutely suffocating (Bad Boys, C's, etc.) the greats still find a way to get it done. I hate make comparisons, but I've never seen the truly greats cower away from the challenge like LBJ has done in these finals so far. Didn't matter if Kobe was having a horrid shooting night, or MJ was facing double and triple teams, getting the absolute **** kicked out him. You knew they were getting the ball and you knew they were taking over. You absolutely feared them as an opponent, and as a fan of them, you had the confidence that they would get it done. MJ, Kobe, Magic, Bird, etc. were all great players, but they cemented their legacies with their performances when it matters the most.

The truly great ones welcome the pressure with open arms and they sure as hell don't crumble under it. That's my main issue with LeBron.

CLASSOF72
06-10-2011, 12:53 PM
Not true. LeBron is just too big and not flexible enough to split defenders at a regular basis. Dwyane Wade can do it.

And so is my point. Kobe could score on a triple team or shoot through the zone whatever excuse you want to give Brony Man he for some reason can't overcome it. Personaly i think LBJ has a run and hide problem. I have no problem seeing DWade as a superior player to LBJ, but I think MJ would have struggled against todays NBA and more credit should be given to those who've put up consistant numbers in this erra of overwhelming D.

nickdymez
06-10-2011, 01:26 PM
Lebron is still better than any player on any team you happen to like. Thats not debatable if you understand basketball at all.

He aint better than Dirk or Wade and i understand basketball

Dallas Tx4Life
06-10-2011, 01:51 PM
so you are what we call the ubiquitous bandwagoner on these PSD forums.

Former Cavs fan I suppose as well?

I haven't been a Heat fan, I've been a Lebron fan... Was never a Cavs fan, just a Lebron fan... Nice try though

Mambo Kings
06-10-2011, 01:55 PM
You can't excuse Lebron's bad play on the Mavericks' defense. We're talking about "King James", "The Chosen One", and a two-time consecutive league MVP. He has been absolutely invisible during games down the stretch.

Dallas Tx4Life
06-10-2011, 01:59 PM
You can't excuse Lebron's bad play on the Mavericks' defense. We're talking about "King James", "The Chosen One", and a two-time consecutive league MVP. He has been absolutely invisible during games down the stretch.

Yep... I just don't get it... :shrug:

If he plays like he has the ability to, this could've easily been over in 4 or 5. But with the Ghost of Cleveland's Past out there' not so much.

ecorrea
06-10-2011, 02:19 PM
When are we going to credit Dallas' defense more? I feel like you guys are doing a diservice to them by not even mentioning the fact that maybe they're doing a great job getting the ball out of his hands and taking him out of a rhythm.

Couldn't agree with u more

Mambo Kings
06-10-2011, 02:19 PM
Ugh

IDB Josh M
06-10-2011, 02:21 PM
when are we going to credit dallas' defense more? I feel like you guys are doing a diservice to them by not even mentioning the fact that maybe they're doing a great job getting the ball out of his hands and taking him out of a rhythm.

+1

ecorrea
06-10-2011, 02:21 PM
I kinda wish the bulls woulda thrown a zone out there now and then cause it's completely destroyed bron

Dallas Tx4Life
06-10-2011, 02:23 PM
When are we going to credit Dallas' defense more? I feel like you guys are doing a diservice to them by not even mentioning the fact that maybe they're doing a great job getting the ball out of his hands and taking him out of a rhythm.

Sure, their defense has been really nice. They deserve some credit, no doubt... But Lebron should be able to blow by anyone on the roster and get to the rim. He should be able to back down kidd and hit a shot right over his head. He should be able to muscle Marion out of his way at any point in any game. He should, he should, he should... But he won't...Why? Only God knows.

Mambo Kings
06-10-2011, 02:25 PM
Stebo-

I know you're a rational Heat fan, and an objective NBA fan. This isn't a question about Dallas' defensive. Yes, they've been very good in this series.

The issue here is that LeBron is the supposed best player in the NBA, and when you're given that title (warranted or not), these types of performances are completely unacceptable. Even if the defense is absolutely suffocating (Bad Boys, C's, etc.) the greats still find a way to get it done. I hate make comparisons, but I've never seen the truly greats cower away from the challenge like LBJ has done in these finals so far. Didn't matter if Kobe was having a horrid shooting night, or MJ was facing double and triple teams, getting the absolute **** kicked out him. You knew they were getting the ball and you knew they were taking over. You absolutely feared them as an opponent, and as a fan of them, you had the confidence that they would get it done. MJ, Kobe, Magic, Bird, etc. were all great players, but they cemented their legacies with their performances when it matters the most.

The truly great ones welcome the pressure with open arms and they sure as hell don't crumble under it. That's my main issue with LeBron.

Well said. James has completely vanished, especially when you compare what other stars have done in the Finals.

jockrider
06-10-2011, 02:25 PM
I kinda wish the bulls woulda thrown a zone out there now and then cause it's completely destroyed bron

he was pretty hot from three in that series. it wouldn't help enough though rose would have still choked down the stretch.

desertrat218
06-10-2011, 02:31 PM
So a homeless man sees Lebron walking by and asks him for a dollar. Lebron turns around and gives him 75 cents. Homeless man asks him, "Where is the rest?" and Lebron says, "Sorry, I don't have a fourth quarter."

Mambo Kings
06-10-2011, 02:34 PM
Man, you messed it up. Keep it simple:

"If you ask King James for a dollar he'll only give you 75 cents. He never gives you the fourth quarter."

akagiredsuns
06-10-2011, 02:43 PM
LeBron is who we all thought he was. OVERRATED. Thank you Pippen for saying he might be the greatest player of all time. Since that comment, LBJ has had the weight of the solar system on his shoulders. How do you spell pressure? J-A-M-E-S. That he could be compared to Mike is insulting. Jordan, or Kobe in their prime for that matter, would NEVER have 8 pts total in a game, let alone just 2 in the 4th quarter. Is LeBron the most physically dominant athletic player in the NBA today? No doubt he is. But he is NOT a closer and he is NOT a clutch shooter. And now that is showing. I want the Mavs to finish this in 6 just to prove that even with 2 superstars at his side, Queen James still could not do it. 0-for-8 would be just great. Good luck LeBron, on possibly being the greatest player never to win a championship. :laugh2:

akagiredsuns
06-10-2011, 03:01 PM
So a homeless man sees Lebron walking by and asks him for a dollar. Lebron turns around and gives him 75 cents. Homeless man asks him, "Where is the rest?" and Lebron says, "Sorry, I don't have a fourth quarter."

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: That was AWESOME!!!

Tony_Starks
06-10-2011, 03:15 PM
wade is his only challenge to him for best player with durant rose dwight cp3 etching closer... kobe obviously isn't even top 6 right now.


Blasphemy!

Tony_Starks
06-10-2011, 03:18 PM
I kinda wish the bulls woulda thrown a zone out there now and then cause it's completely destroyed bron



People are really sleeping on the effect of the zone. Boston used it on Kobe when they beat the Lakers their first year. They're thrown it at Lebron quite a bit to slow him down... and now Dallas is using it as well.

In stretches it can be very effective....

Lim
06-10-2011, 07:08 PM
So your giving him credit for the titkes he MIGHT win in the future? Sorry, but he isn't going to win a single title getting 11 4th quarter points in 5 games...

It's not that MJ didn't win a ring, it's the stats he got while not winning. He was incredible in the series against the Pistons. If LeBron were putting up monster stats or even playing like he gave a **** it'd be different.

I mean, nobody is calling Howard a choke artist even though he lost a finals and got bounced in the 1st this year. That's because he played like he desperately wanted to win and put up stats.

And before you say "LeBron had a triple double, that's not too shabby". Your not telling me LeBron's a good or even great player; your telling me he's the best player on the planet. His #'s should reflect that. The best player on the planet shouldn't score as much as JJ Barea...

his numbers DO reflect that.. look at my post earlier in this thread(lebrons career playoff stats). 5 games don't mean **** man, everyone has a bad stretch of games.. EVERYONE. 90 game sample > 5 game sample.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career_p.html

bolded players are players still playing.. no one comes close to him except obviously tmac but tmac is done.

and thats just PPG.. not to mention hes avging 8.5 rpg and 7 apg

HesterTrain
06-10-2011, 07:11 PM
So a homeless man sees Lebron walking by and asks him for a dollar. Lebron turns around and gives him 75 cents. Homeless man asks him, "Where is the rest?" and Lebron says, "Sorry, I don't have a fourth quarter."

I heard this on ESPN earlier from a tweet. Except it wasn't as drawn out as you made it. All though it's not original, I laughed hard when I first heard it.

haggis
06-10-2011, 07:16 PM
5 games don't mean **** man

they do in the finals.

Uncle Chuck
06-10-2011, 07:19 PM
This situation is quite two-fold. In a points per 4th quarter, Lebron has just been a flat out ghost. That point can NOT be argued. But you have to realize that a 3-2 series is as close as it could possibly be at this point. Are some of you suggesting that if Lebron shoots more the heat would be up in this series? To quote Jordan, “Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships.”

I understand the Lebron hate. I do. I'm not a big fan of him myself. But heres what some of you need to consider... You use his 4th quarter disappearance as proof that Lebron isn't as great as some (ESPN) make him out to be. And at the same time are saying the Heat are a better TEAM when Lebron takes control.

I really think this is a case of Lebron taking what the defense gives and is not forcing anything. At the same time, Eric Spolstra is failing his team more than any of the players. He appears to be doing nothing to get Lebron in situations to make a difference. But this doesn't take the responsibility away from Bron, he is the man and needs to act like it. His legacy will be forever tarnished if he doesn't have a big game in game 6 or 7.

also to add... While Lebron is not Jordan, Spolstra isn't in the same universe as Phil Jackson.

LakersKB24
06-10-2011, 08:36 PM
In the regular season, LeBron is the best player in the world, no doubt.
He just isnt' made for the playoffs games when his team really needs him. I think it's a character thing. He doesn't have that killer instinct that you need in those games.

He plays defense in the crunch time. So??? If you only need a guy who plays defense in the 4th quarter you can save 10 million bucks and get a guy like Battier or Artest.
LeBron needs to be aggressive on BOTH ends of the floor for the whole game. That's what makes great players great. They have to dominate offensively and defensively in crunch time. Wade does it. LeBron? Not so much...

jockrider
06-10-2011, 09:34 PM
In the regular season, LeBron is the best player in the world, no doubt.
He just isnt' made for the playoffs games when his team really needs him. I think it's a character thing. He doesn't have that killer instinct that you need in those games.

He plays defense in the crunch time. So??? If you only need a guy who plays defense in the 4th quarter you can save 10 million bucks and get a guy like Battier or Artest.
LeBron needs to be aggressive on BOTH ends of the floor for the whole game. That's what makes great players great. They have to dominate offensively and defensively in crunch time. Wade does it. LeBron? Not so much...

how about the 10 assists and 10 rebounds? you know theres more to basketball than scoring.

Mambo Kings
06-10-2011, 11:40 PM
how about the 10 assists and 10 rebounds? you know theres more to basketball than scoring.

Too much is made about triple-doubles in general, especially when you consider Lebron basically had zero points once again in the 4th quarter (you can hardly count that gimme at the end when the game was over). The fact is, he's a key component of this team, offensively. He has yet to hit even his average PPG in this series. The Heat need James to score, and he's not coming through. He's got 9 points combined in the 4th quarters of this series, 11 if you count that crap at the end of Game 5. Dirk, by contrast, has 50+ over the same stretch. And guess who's a two-time NBA MVP?

tredigs
06-10-2011, 11:49 PM
I've noticed a very common theme that most Bulls and Celtics fans are staying quiet about Lebron's 4th quarter "disappearing" act. And rightfully so, he torched them both and is the main reason why their team is in this position.

He's been poor in the 4th - and in general for LBJ standards (even if he did have the first triple-dub in a Finals over the last decade last night) - this series, but this Mavs team/zone has given him issues all year. He struggled mightily against them in the 2 regular season games also (6 for 17 and 5 for 19 from the field). Just a matchup that gives him trouble, and he's deferring as a result. If this was the Bulls in the Finals (or OKC if we're in reality), then I imagine he would be torching them all the same.

Makes for good (if not ignorant) banter and hypes up the league though, so to each their own.

Gibby23
06-10-2011, 11:50 PM
how about the 10 assists and 10 rebounds? you know theres more to basketball than scoring.

How about missing big Jumpers when the game is on the line? How about not taking over when the team Leade is hurting? How about we seen this last year?

Mambo Kings
06-10-2011, 11:54 PM
I've noticed a very common theme that most Bulls and Celtics fans are staying quiet about Lebron's 4th quarter "disappearing" act. And rightfully so, he torched them both and is the main reason why their team is in this position.

That's what makes this story about Lebron's disappearing act so juicy, the fact he did seem to come up big in the previous series when it mattered most. He's coming off great performances vs. the Celtics and Bulls so it's not like we expected him to vanish in the Finals. But he has...he is...and whether you call it choking, nerves, getting caught up in the moment...it makes for great headlines. And the fact they hand out the trophy after the Finals, not before.

SP17
06-11-2011, 12:02 AM
2 more games left..if Lebron demolish the mavs this next 2 games all of this crap would stop..oh what a hate fest..

tredigs
06-11-2011, 12:02 AM
That's what makes this story about Lebron's disappearing act so juicy, the fact he did seem to come up big in the previous series when it mattered most. He's coming off great performances vs. the Celtics and Bulls so it's not like we expected him to vanish in the Finals. But he has...he is...and whether you call it choking, nerves, getting caught up in the moment...it makes for great headlines. And the fact they hand out the trophy after the Finals, not before.

I noticed you attributed it to "choking, nerves" etc. while deleting the rest of my post that actually took a look at a very likely reason - not rooted in nerves or "choking". I think the previous two matchups favored Lebron (actually, Boston is a wash), while this match-up absolutely favors Wade.

He's still playing far too passive for what I'd want if I'm a Heat fan, but it seems like a matchup issue as much as anything else. And let's be honest, any time a guy can put up the first triple-double in the NBA Finals in over a decade and still get absolutely slammed by his absurd following of critics, you're doing something right. People already forget that guys like Kobe put up 6-24 chucking performances in NBA Finals' Game 7 and stroll through to Finals MVP awards?

He should absolutely be more aggressive in attacking the rim, but the expectations for him are comedically high in EVERY series he plays (how soon him carrying the team against the two teams that were as lauded as anyone going into postseason has been forgotten). The dude can do NO right in the seething/hating eyes of his critics.

I'm just going to enjoy the show.

PHX2daDEATH
06-11-2011, 12:06 AM
Needs a post game, needs a consistent 18-20 ft jumper...you cant be great all-around without those..especially for a player who is as streaky as he is...We're talking about being a leader and being able to carry his team in tight situations...What is his game..? unstoppable in the open floor, will blow by any player on isolations, and get streaky with the heaves..if the other team is taking care of the ball and not allowing him to fastbreak, how effective is he being? He needs to be work on his overall offensive game because what is he going to have when the game slows down for him when he's 30-34?

Mambo Kings
06-11-2011, 12:10 AM
I don't argue the matchup is poor for Lebron, but that doesn't excuse his absolute collapse in these Finals. The guy is basically a good bet to produce zero points in the 4th quarter of these games. Ok, maybe one basket...are you serious? Matchup or not, that's inexcusable for a two-time consecutive NBA MVP and arguably the best player in the world.

tredigs
06-11-2011, 12:16 AM
I don't argue the matchup is poor for Lebron, but that doesn't excuse his absolute collapse in these Finals. The guy is basically a good bet to produce zero points in the 4th quarter of these games. Ok, maybe one basket...are you serious? Matchup or not, that's inexcusable for a two-time consecutive NBA MVP and arguably the best player in the world.

Agreed to an extent, but when you have a Bosh and a Wade on your team, you have to take that into consideration. These are two 25+ point per game scorers when they're the #1 on a team, and Wade is a flat out matchup nightmare for Dallas - they're right to exploit that as much as possible.

If you've noticed, EVERY time Lebron touched the ball in the 4th and looked to attack they were doubling him PAST the three point line. Is he just supposed to look past the two other All Stars or elite 3pt shooters and try to barrel his way through them to the hoop? It's a tough situation for him. You could tell he wanted to be more aggressive but just couldn't get an inch of leeway, thus, he deferred to his teammates and said "enjoy the 4 on 3". They weren't able to capitalize and the Heat lost as a result.

Yet, all blame goes to Lebron and his "totally lame and overrated" triple double. I'm sure he's used to it at this point.

Mambo Kings
06-11-2011, 12:25 AM
Agreed to an extent, but when you have a Bosh and a Wade on your team, you have to take that into consideration. These are two 25+ point per game scorers when they're the #1 on a team, and Wade is a flat out matchup nightmare for Dallas - they're right to exploit that as much as possible.

If you've noticed, EVERY time Lebron touched the ball in the 4th and looked to attack they were doubling him PAST the three point line. Is he just supposed to look past the two other All Stars or elite 3pt shooters and try to barrel his way through them to the hoop? It's a tough situation for him. You could tell he wanted to be more aggressive but just couldn't get an inch of leeway, thus, he deferred to his teammates and said "enjoy the 4 on 3". They weren't able to capitalize and the Heat lost as a result.

Yet, all blame goes to Lebron and his "totally lame and overrated" triple double. I'm sure he's used to it at this point.

I do put a lot of that on the coach. It's true Dallas has taken steps to neutralize James but FFS then Spoelstra has to be able to make adjustments, but that's something he's never been good at. Lebron can have all the talent in the world, but the system and offense has to be tailored for him to play to his strengths. Carlisle, like so many coaches before him, is taking Spoelstra to school when it matters most. Watch Bibby start again in Game 6...ugh.

sventhedog
06-11-2011, 01:25 AM
Agreed to an extent, but when you have a Bosh and a Wade on your team, you have to take that into consideration. These are two 25+ point per game scorers when they're the #1 on a team, and Wade is a flat out matchup nightmare for Dallas - they're right to exploit that as much as possible.

If you've noticed, EVERY time Lebron touched the ball in the 4th and looked to attack they were doubling him PAST the three point line. Is he just supposed to look past the two other All Stars or elite 3pt shooters and try to barrel his way through them to the hoop? It's a tough situation for him. You could tell he wanted to be more aggressive but just couldn't get an inch of leeway, thus, he deferred to his teammates and said "enjoy the 4 on 3". They weren't able to capitalize and the Heat lost as a result.

Yet, all blame goes to Lebron and his "totally lame and overrated" triple double. I'm sure he's used to it at this point.

i would also agree with you to some extent. but i'm pretty sure kobe scored and delivered in the finals and in the 4th even when shaq was a matchup nightmare. i'm pretty sure pippen also scored and delivered even when jordan was a matchup nightmare.

nobody said lebron should score everytime he touches the ball and gets double teamed. but double teams leave a man open so why are the heat not winning? i'm sure the offense adjusted when shaq or jordan was double teamed. mavs defense is pressured by the need to double team especially with wade and bosh able to dominate.

i hope i don't need to mention the lakers and the bulls won with the other team double-teaming them.

knicks4life33
06-11-2011, 02:33 AM
where all the heat bandwagon fans. not many in this thread. makes you wonder. after a win they flood the forumns but in a thread like this there aint as many.

kblo247
06-11-2011, 06:19 AM
Look at Kidd play on the other team. He has no where near the same speed he once had but he makes the plays on both ends. He was the guy you see getting steals, chasing down and contesting breaks, making hard fouls, fighting for rebounds, defending and all that. He has shown me more than LeBron this series and he is just a shell of the Kidd who led the Nets before microfracture, if he was that Kidd, Miami would be done by now and LeBron would be locked up even worse

Hey we all know Kobe shot like **** in game 7 but he grabbed 15 Rebs, and scored 10 points in the last 9 minutes of that game, as well as had the assist to Artest. Duncan went 10/27 in game 7 of the finals but he shut down the paint. Jordan shot horribly both years versus Utah in the closeout, but he shrugged every miss off and kept attacking to he had nothing left to give.

I just don't see that my stats, percentage, and prettiness of my game be damned for the sake of winning mentality in LeBron like in those guys above. Admittedly I do in Wade AND DAMN SURE DO IN DIRK

I'll say it again this failure just adds to the stack. The sweep by the Spurs where Bowen *****ed him, and losing the previous 2 years with home court throughout and at least 3 other former all stars on both Cavs teams.

Before this year LeBron had never helped his team beat one good team in his career outside of Detroit in the psotseason, and he beat Flip's Pistons who never got out of th east not Larry's 2 finals teams.

Best player in the game my ***, because I am reminded of two people. Tex Winters said it best " you make your fame in the season, but you make your name in the playoffs" which is where LeBron equals LeFail and doesn't even deserved to be mentioned among the greats. And I'm also reminded of Kobe when he got Pau, "I got that piece from management, so now it is on me to show up and win with what we have, if we don't win that is on me, blame me", and as of right now for a guy who is supposed to be the best, he is playing with 2 of the best and he is the one buckling to the pressure so he likewise should be blamed if anyone who has ever compared Kobe and LeBron are to be taken seriously.

The fact is if he truly had it in him to keep trying and attacking even at the risk of bad numbers and poor personal stats, Miami would be in better position and you know it.

DetroitRipCity
06-11-2011, 06:27 AM
Stebo-

I know you're a rational Heat fan, and an objective NBA fan. This isn't a question about Dallas' defensive. Yes, they've been very good in this series.

The issue here is that LeBron is the supposed best player in the NBA, and when you're given that title (warranted or not), these types of performances are completely unacceptable. Even if the defense is absolutely suffocating (Bad Boys, C's, etc.) the greats still find a way to get it done. I hate make comparisons, but I've never seen the truly greats cower away from the challenge like LBJ has done in these finals so far. Didn't matter if Kobe was having a horrid shooting night, or MJ was facing double and triple teams, getting the absolute **** kicked out him. You knew they were getting the ball and you knew they were taking over. You absolutely feared them as an opponent, and as a fan of them, you had the confidence that they would get it done. MJ, Kobe, Magic, Bird, etc. were all great players, but they cemented their legacies with their performances when it matters the most.

The truly great ones welcome the pressure with open arms and they sure as hell don't crumble under it. That's my main issue with LeBron.

This is the best post ive seen in this thread

well done :clap:

LakersKB24
06-11-2011, 07:05 AM
how about the 10 assists and 10 rebounds? you know theres more to basketball than scoring.

Did you check how many rebounds or assists LeBron had in the last 5 minutes? I'm think it was somewhere in the zero range :D
LeBron had 0 impact on how the game would turn out.

And you say there's more to basketball than scoring? At the end of the day the team with the most points after 48 minutes wins the game.