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macc
06-07-2011, 11:29 PM
They brought up a good point during the game. Would you put Wade in the top 3 SG's ever as of today?

I'm curious to hear people debate this. I don't think I've made up my mind yet. Sway me.


Top shooting guards

Allen Iverson
Pistol Pete
George Gervin
Jerry West
Clyde Drexler
T- Mac (9 peak prime years)
Vince Carter
Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Oscar Robinson
Mitch Richmond


Edit: Because some people don't understand why I left Jordan and Kobe off the list is because they are the concensous # 1 and #2 top SG's of all time, there's not much debate on that. This argument is for who is the 3rd best SG of all time as of today. Better? Most of you got it, a couple couldn't figure it out and ripped me for not having Kobe and MJ on my top SG list eventhough I thought it was obvious what I was getting at. Guess not.

carnage101
06-07-2011, 11:31 PM
he could be, he's the best player in basketball in my opinion ( today)

Testaverde16
06-07-2011, 11:34 PM
If he retired today he wouldnt be, but in the end he very well could be.

MU and UW Fan
06-07-2011, 11:34 PM
Maybe he will get there, but he's not there yet. And I'm a big D-Wade fan. I go to Marquette University. But anyways Jordan and Kobe for sure. Also I'd put Jerry West over Wade, at least at this point. Down the road Wade may be top 3, but not yet.

Carey
06-07-2011, 11:37 PM
Def in the discussion, i still lean toward putting him behind Jerry West and George Gervin but you can make an argument for him over both of those guys

210Don
06-07-2011, 11:37 PM
yes

LA_Raiders
06-07-2011, 11:38 PM
Fail... He has 2 years and then injuries will finish him

210Don
06-07-2011, 11:38 PM
Fail... He has 2 years and then injuries will finish him

:facepalm:
you wish

kozelkid
06-07-2011, 11:39 PM
I think he will be when his career is over, but thus far, I gotta go with Logo over him as well. I will say this, his 08-09 season was the 2nd best season ever by a sg. MJ obviously had a few such seasons that were as good and better.

kozelkid
06-07-2011, 11:41 PM
Fail... He has 2 years and then injuries will finish him

I do think injuries and his inconsistent shooting will kill him from having an extended career like MJ and Kobe, but his prime will still make him a top 3 sg imo.

THE MTL
06-07-2011, 11:42 PM
Here is another one of Mark Jackson's dumb@$$ statements. And the Warriors have that ****** as their coach. Far too many guys, that have significant longevity on him for Wade to be in the discussion as of yet.

kArSoN RyDaH
06-07-2011, 11:45 PM
Kobe, MJ, West I'd put ahead of him. Maybe G. Gervin as well...

Fnom11
06-07-2011, 11:48 PM
I'd take Wade over West 10 out of 10 times.

kArSoN RyDaH
06-07-2011, 11:48 PM
Allen Iverson in his prime> Wade in his prime.



Easily.

kozelkid
06-07-2011, 11:49 PM
Here is another one of Mark Jackson's dumb@$$ statements. And the Warriors have that ****** as their coach. Far too many guys, that have significant longevity on him for Wade to be in the discussion as of yet.

Not really. Fact of the matter is that the 2 guard position, historically, is not deep. It was revolutionized when guys like MJ and Drexler joined the league. Looking at stats or accolades, I can't imagine you can name any other player aside from the Logo, MJ and Kobe, and MAYBE Gervin as players who have a legit case over Wade.

kozelkid
06-07-2011, 11:50 PM
I'd take Wade over West 10 out of 10 times.

Of course you would. You're a Heat fan. Personally, I don't think it's that obvious of a decision.

avrpatsfan
06-07-2011, 11:50 PM
I'd put Jerry West, Kobe, and Jordan over him. I can't think of anyone else though.

Raph12
06-07-2011, 11:51 PM
If he retired today he wouldnt be, but in the end he very well could be.

This

avrpatsfan
06-07-2011, 11:51 PM
Allen Iverson in his prime> Wade in his prime.



Easily.
Iverson is a great player but he's a volume shooter.

kArSoN RyDaH
06-07-2011, 11:52 PM
Allen Iverson was probably a better player but didn't have the best ending to his career..

AnalyzeNShoot
06-07-2011, 11:53 PM
I starting watch basket ball in 2001. And throughout that time I have need seen a SG with the abilities that Wade have. Yes Including Kobe. I am talking about his defensive ability.

Fnom11
06-07-2011, 11:54 PM
Of course you would. You're a Heat fan. Personally, I don't think it's that obvious of a decision.

Jerry West was a phenomenal player in his time. I however think if you put him in this era he wouldn't be anywhere near dominate.

kArSoN RyDaH
06-07-2011, 11:55 PM
Iverson is a great player but he's a volume shooter.

Yeah true but he still got the job done and led the league in scoring 4 times.

Fnom11
06-07-2011, 11:55 PM
Allen Iverson was probably a better player but didn't have the best ending to his career..

Not sure if serious

97NYer
06-07-2011, 11:55 PM
MJ, Kobe, Wade

West and Gervin were incredible players in their time but put them in the NBA now and Wade is the better player.

Fnom11
06-07-2011, 11:56 PM
Yeah true but he still got the job done and led the league in scoring 4 times.


Iverson is a great player but he's a volume shooter..

hugepatsfan
06-07-2011, 11:56 PM
Allen Iverson was probably a better player but didn't have the best ending to his career..

I take Wade 11 times out of 10 over Iverson.

kArSoN RyDaH
06-07-2011, 11:56 PM
I starting watch basket ball in 2001. And throughout that time I have need seen a SG with the abilities that Wade have. Yes Including Kobe. I am talking about his defensive ability.

Kobe, when he wants to be, can defend anyone in the league. Wade is probably the better defender NOW though.

BALLER R
06-07-2011, 11:57 PM
Fail... He has 2 years and then injuries will finish him

yeah 2 years ago they might have been saying that but not today

Bravo95
06-07-2011, 11:57 PM
Jordan, Bryant, West, and Iverson are the Top 4 imo, but he has time to move up.

Hustlenomics
06-07-2011, 11:58 PM
Allen Iverson in his prime> Wade in his prime.



Easily.

^

kArSoN RyDaH
06-08-2011, 12:02 AM
Not sure if serious


Edit: In HIS PRIME I'd take AI over Wade right now.



I take Wade 11 times out of 10 over Iverson.

Same here but in AI's prime I'd take him over Wade.


Wade definitely ranks ahead of him all time..

kozelkid
06-08-2011, 12:02 AM
Jerry West was a phenomenal player in his time. I however think if you put him in this era he wouldn't be anywhere near dominate.

Maybe, but that's a poor way to judge a player. For all you know, maybe Wade wouldn't even make it after two seasons in West's era given the advancements in medical staff and the amount now invested in keeping an athlete fit and injury free. Maybe the training staff of West's era would not be able to prolong Wade's career given his reckless style, and maybe he'd be done for good after 3-4 seasons. It's like looking at what a guy like Brandon Roy could have been if he played 50 years from now where maybe we'd have the stem cell research and could have grew new cartilage for his knees.

You can't compare two players like that, though. You compare players based on their impact in their time, at least in my opinion. You just can't prove that West couldn't ball in this era. And people act like that era was full of scrubs when that really wasn't the case.

In the end, you gotta extrapolate the statistics and try to compare them side by side, along with the accolades and the facts show that West and Wade are very close.

king4day
06-08-2011, 12:03 AM
Sounds like another 'in the moment' thread. Someone already listed better alltime players. He could go down as top 3 by careers end, but right now? Cmon, let's stop with this.

Fnom11
06-08-2011, 12:04 AM
Maybe, but that's a poor way to judge a player. For all you know, maybe Wade wouldn't even make it after two seasons in West's era given the advancements in medical staff and the amount now invested in keeping an athlete fit and injury free. Maybe the training staff of West's era would not be able to prolong Wade's career given his reckless style, and maybe he'd be done for good after 3-4 seasons.

You can't compare two players like that, though. You compare players based on their impact in their time, at least in my opinion. You just can't prove that West couldn't ball in this era. And people act like that era was full of scrubs when that really wasn't the case.

In the end, you gotta extrapolate the statistics and try to compare them side by side, along with the accolades and the facts show that West and Wade are very close.

Excellent point.

JordansBulls
06-08-2011, 12:05 AM
Careerwise no, peak wise yes.

JordansBulls
06-08-2011, 12:06 AM
Allen Iverson in his prime> Wade in his prime.



Easily.

No way man.

mikealike305
06-08-2011, 12:07 AM
Right now? Yes
By the end of his career? Top 2

IversonIsKrazy
06-08-2011, 12:09 AM
MJ, Kobe, West. After that it's debatable, AI not having a ring hurts his rankings sadly, dude had heart...

kArSoN RyDaH
06-08-2011, 12:10 AM
Right now? Yes
By the end of his career? Top 2

You're crazy.


Wade WILL NEVER be a top 2 guard. Ever!

CB29
06-08-2011, 12:13 AM
h's top 5 but kobe, iverson and mj are better... he has a shot at ai if he ages well... dude has the heart of a champion no doubt... he's the most liked player on the heat and for good reason...

kArSoN RyDaH
06-08-2011, 12:15 AM
No way man.

Yes way.


Dude led the league in scoring 4 times and took his team to the finals and gave them the only loss of the playoffs.


Wade obviously has a ring and better defense but I'd rather have AI.


Oh and by the way, Allen Iverson was 6 foot. #JustSayin

RaidersLakers24
06-08-2011, 12:16 AM
I starting watch basket ball in 2001. And throughout that time I have need seen a SG with the abilities that Wade have. Yes Including Kobe. I am talking about his defensive ability.

You must have never seen Kobe play defense then... From 00'-08' he was clearly the best guard defender in the league! But right now yes wade is te best sg defensively

mikealike305
06-08-2011, 12:19 AM
You're crazy.


Wade WILL NEVER be a top 2 guard. Ever!

You're underrating Wade
Or overrating Kobe
Not sure which. I mean are you not seeing his finals performance?

RaidersLakers24
06-08-2011, 12:20 AM
MJ,Kobe,West then it's arguable between gervin iverson and wade when it's all said and done wade can be a top 3 sg but no way he ever passes Kobe or Jordan they have just accomplished too much

Lakerhead4ever
06-08-2011, 12:21 AM
mj
kobe
west
and then its a toss up. wade hasnt done nothing yet, as far as individual stats go. miller, iverson, has doen everything hes done except win a ring.

plus iverson too his team to the finals alllllll by himself. wade had a sidekick in shaq, and has two sidekicks now.

if iverson had lets say a chris bosh..hmmm

wade has some work to do, although i do see him grasping that 3rd spot eventually

hugepatsfan
06-08-2011, 12:24 AM
MJ
Kobe
West
Wade
Gervin
AI

Wade will definately move ahead of West and could potentially move ahead of Kobe as well IMO.

kozelkid
06-08-2011, 12:27 AM
MJ
Kobe
West
Wade
Gervin
AI

Wade will definately move ahead of West and could potentially move ahead of Kobe as well IMO.

Eh, I don't see it. Mainly because I personally believe that the wear and tear will get to Wade in 2 years. If not though, then I agree. Especially if he can play at this level for at least 3 years and not fall off a cliff afterwards.

mikealike305
06-08-2011, 12:27 AM
Wade hasn't done anything?
He has a ring and finals MVP and if the heat win this series, he will have 2 rings and 2 finals MVPs

JayHunter
06-08-2011, 12:29 AM
He could be but I think he will be injury prone in the future

hugepatsfan
06-08-2011, 12:30 AM
Eh, I don't see it. Mainly because I personally believe that the wear and tear will get to Wade in 2 years. If not though, then I agree. Especially if he can play at this level for at least 3 years and not fall off a cliff afterwards.

I do agree w/ you about Wade having a pretty steep decline. That's why this MIA "superteam" doesn't worry me. I think in 3 years or so, Wade is going to be closer to Bosh than Lebron. MIA doesn't look as scary then.

But I think that he will be able to pass West in that time frame pretty easily. If he is able to avoid the steep decline that I expect, he might be able to catch Kobe, but I wouldn't bank on it.

kozelkid
06-08-2011, 12:32 AM
I do agree w/ you about Wade having a pretty steep decline. That's why this MIA "superteam" doesn't worry me. I think in 3 years or so, Wade is going to be closer to Bosh than Lebron. MIA doesn't look as scary then.

But I think that he will be able to pass West in that time frame pretty easily. If he is able to avoid the steep decline that I expect, he might be able to catch Kobe, but I wouldn't bank on it.

No, I agree about the West part. I corrected the mistake I made with the bolding.
Kobe, though, unlikely. But I do think Wade has had a better prime.

marlinsfan24
06-08-2011, 12:34 AM
I do agree w/ you about Wade having a pretty steep decline. That's why this MIA "superteam" doesn't worry me. I think in 3 years or so, Wade is going to be closer to Bosh than Lebron. MIA doesn't look as scary then.

But I think that he will be able to pass West in that time frame pretty easily. If he is able to avoid the steep decline that I expect, he might be able to catch Kobe, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Agree with this poster. :clap:

Wade isn't a top 3 player yet, but if he can win this finals and a second MVP, he will be very near that level. He's been amazing this finals.

Avenged
06-08-2011, 12:35 AM
They brought up a good point during the game. Would you put Wade in the top 3 SG's ever as of today?

I'm curious to hear people debate this. I don't think I've made up my mind yet. Sway me.


Top shooting guards

Allen Iverson
Pistol Pete
George Gervin
Jerry West
Clyde Drexler

Does Kobe not make your list? or did you just forget?

RaidersLakers24
06-08-2011, 12:36 AM
So wade can possibly pass Kobe and be top 5 ever? Sorry but I just don't see it!

hugepatsfan
06-08-2011, 12:37 AM
No, I agree about the West part. I corrected the mistake I made with the bolding.
Kobe, though, unlikely. But I do think Wade has had a better prime.

It's definately a solid argument. I'll probably look at that a little closer in the next few days, but from the 05-06 season to the 09-10 season (excluding 07-08 season), Wade was un-freakin-believeable! A quick look at the stats definately shows that Kobe has never had a stretch that touches that. Although I would need to look deeper than just a quick glance at the "advanced" section on basketball reference page for each before I can definitively say either way.

Avenged
06-08-2011, 12:37 AM
Allen Iverson in his prime> Wade in his prime.



Easily.

Ouch.. Easily?

For someone who truly values rings when discussing, what does AI have to show that he was better? Scoring titles? Come on man.

RaidersLakers24
06-08-2011, 12:38 AM
Does Kobe not make your list? or did you just forget?

DoNt sweat it bro I think it clear he has Kobe and mj #1 and #2 and that's why he didn't mention them! I think he named all the others as potentially the 3rd best sg ever!

justinnum1
06-08-2011, 12:41 AM
Fail... He has 2 years and then injuries will finish him

keep dreaming

Master Mind
06-08-2011, 12:44 AM
No question Wade is top 3 ever...

Sadds The Gr8
06-08-2011, 12:50 AM
Why do people think Wade will pass Kobe? Wade only has a couple years left and won't have the longevity Kobe has. I don't think there's a chance...

and this is coming from one of the biggest Kobe haters ever.

GrantHustle
06-08-2011, 12:52 AM
1.MJ
2.Kobe
3.West
4.Drexler
5. Gervin

Master Mind
06-08-2011, 12:54 AM
Why do people think Wade will pass Kobe? Wade only has a couple years left and won't have the longevity Kobe has. I don't think there's a chance...

and this is coming from one of the biggest Kobe haters ever.

Yeah cause you can tell the future. :rolleyes:

NJBASEBALL22
06-08-2011, 12:55 AM
Right now, I have him tied for 4th with McGrady. He will easily overtake him shortly. MJ, Kobe and West are clearly in front of him. Drexler, Ray Allen, Mitch Richmond are right behind him. By the end, he will be a top 2-4 SG ever. What these 4 have over everyone else, is that they could do everything. Score, pass, create, shoot, rebound, defend, lead... everything. T-Mac could do most of those things, just not as great D as the others.

My reasoning behind being tied with McGrady...

Both have had excellent 7 year peaks (with Wade likely to add to his) and their numbers look like this:

01-07 T-Mac: 27/6.5/5.3 with a 1.5 steals and block a game. 2.7 TO's a game as primary ball handler. Shooting .437/.334/.758. Played B defense.

05-11 Wade: 27/5.3/6.5 with with 2 steals and over a block a game. Averaged 3.8 TO's a game as teams primary ball handler. Shooting .488/.290/.770. Played A- defense.

Similar scorers, Wade better at getting to the rack slightly while T-Mac was a better shooter (due to his range and length to shoot over smaller defenders). Passing was about the same but I'd give it to T-Mac because of who he had to pass to, I mean Wade had Antione Walker, Eddie Jones, Daquan Cook, Shawn Marion, and Haslem to pass to in his worst years. T-Mac never had anyone that good in his best years. T-Mac had much lower turnover rates despite a higher usage rate. As creators, I would say they were both tops.

Wade played with Shaq for 3 years and then Lebron and Bosh for 1 year with 3 years being in complete disarray. T-Mac on the other handed carried teams where his next best players were Darrell Armstrong and Pat Garrity to the post season. 1 year Wade's Heat finished with 15 wins. McGrady never fell that low. I actually give T-Mac some credit for leadership despite being knocked out of the 1st round every year. He was just unfortunate to never have the right teammates until he teamed up Yao and they both had major injury after major injury. Wade road Shaq, a hot hand from 3, and shoddy officiating to the Finals MVP.

The fact is, Wade had a secondary superstar to use for 4 of his 7 years (he was injured two of those other 3 years). McGrady had a secondary superstar in exactly one of his 7 seasons. His first year in Houston with Yao. After that, Yao and T-Mac were both substantially hurt.

Defenses were a bit tougher in T-Mac's day and Wade doesn't even have to play against the toughest defensive team out there now, because he is on it. Defenses could focus on McGrady for most of his career, Wade and Kobe didn't have to worry about that.

T-Mac was known for his dunking and his turnaround and fall away J's- he was the best around at these from the mid range. Wade's signature move was just getting to the rack and/or line.

SP17
06-08-2011, 12:57 AM
just a thought though..If Wade will rank ahead of kobe in the SG department then that means wade will surely be a top 10 player of all time? hmmmm

Master Mind
06-08-2011, 12:57 AM
Right now, I have him tied for 4th with McGrady. He will easily overtake him shortly. MJ, Kobe and West are clearly in front of him. By the end, he will be a top 2-4 SG ever. What these 4 have over everyone else, is that they could do everything. Score, pass, create, shoot, rebound, defend, lead... everything. T-Mac could do most of those things, just not as great D as the others.

My reasoning behind being tied with McGrady...

Both have had excellent 7 year peaks (with Wade likely to add to his) and their numbers look like this:

01-07 T-Mac: 27/6.5/5.3 with a 1.5 steals and block a game. 2.7 TO's a game as primary ball handler. Shooting .437/.334/.758. Played B defense.

05-11 Wade: 27/5.3/6.5 with with 2 steals and over a block a game. Averaged 3.8 TO's a game as teams primary ball handler. Shooting .488/.290/.770. Played A- defense.

Similar scorers, Wade better at getting to the rack slightly while T-Mac was a better shooter (due to his range and length to shoot over smaller defenders). Passing was about the same but I'd give it to T-Mac because of who he had to pass to, I mean Wade had Antione Walker, Eddie Jones, Daquan Cook, Shawn Marion, and Haslem to pass to in his worst years. T-Mac never had anyone that good in his best years. T-Mac had much lower turnover rates despite a higher usage rate. As creators, I would say they were both tops.

Wade played with Shaq for 3 years and then Lebron and Bosh for 1 year with 3 years being in complete disarray. T-Mac on the other handed carried teams where his next best players were Darrell Armstrong and Pat Garrity to the post season. 1 year Wade's Heat finished with 15 wins. McGrady never fell that low. I actually give T-Mac some credit for leadership despite being knocked out of the 1st round every year. He was just unfortunate to never have the right teammates until he teamed up Yao and they both had major injury after major injury. Wade road Shaq, a hot hand from 3, and shoddy officiating to the Finals MVP.

The fact is, Wade had a secondary superstar to use for 4 of his 7 years (he was injured two of those other 3 years). McGrady had a secondary superstar in exactly one of his 7 seasons. His first year in Houston with Yao. After that, Yao and T-Mac were both substantially hurt.

Defenses were a bit tougher in T-Mac's day and Wade doesn't even have to play against the toughest defensive team out there now, because he is on it. Defenses could focus on McGrady for most of his career, Wade and Kobe didn't have to worry about that.

T-Mac was known for his dunking and his turnaround and fall away J's- he was the best around at these from the mid range. Wade's signature move was just getting to the rack and/or line.

:confused: Mcgrady? Wow! In terms of top SG's ever?! Wow!

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 12:58 AM
No way, only people who will say he is, is Miami and Wade fans.

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 01:01 AM
Can we also keep in mind that MJ and Kobe are SG's and Wade is not even close to being on there level.

Master Mind
06-08-2011, 01:04 AM
Can we also keep in mind that MJ and Kobe are SG's and Wade is not even close to being on there level.

How old are you?

tredigs
06-08-2011, 01:06 AM
Right now, I have him tied for 4th with McGrady. He will easily overtake him shortly. MJ, Kobe and West are clearly in front of him. By the end, he will be a top 2-4 SG ever. What these 4 have over everyone else, is that they could do everything. Score, pass, create, shoot, rebound, defend, lead... everything. T-Mac could do most of those things, just not as great D as the others.

My reasoning behind being tied with McGrady...

Both have had excellent 7 year peaks (with Wade likely to add to his) and their numbers look like this:

01-07 T-Mac: 27/6.5/5.3 with a 1.5 steals and block a game. 2.7 TO's a game as primary ball handler. Shooting .437/.334/.758. Played B defense.

05-11 Wade: 27/5.3/6.5 with with 2 steals and over a block a game. Averaged 3.8 TO's a game as teams primary ball handler. Shooting .488/.290/.770. Played A- defense.

Similar scorers, Wade better at getting to the rack slightly while T-Mac was a better shooter (due to his range and length to shoot over smaller defenders). Passing was about the same but I'd give it to T-Mac because of who he had to pass to, I mean Wade had Antione Walker, Eddie Jones, Daquan Cook, Shawn Marion, and Haslem to pass to in his worst years. T-Mac never had anyone that good in his best years. T-Mac had much lower turnover rates despite a higher usage rate. As creators, I would say they were both tops.

Wade played with Shaq for 3 years and then Lebron and Bosh for 1 year with 3 years being in complete disarray. T-Mac on the other handed carried teams where his next best players were Darrell Armstrong and Pat Garrity to the post season. 1 year Wade's Heat finished with 15 wins. McGrady never fell that low. I actually give T-Mac some credit for leadership despite being knocked out of the 1st round every year. He was just unfortunate to never have the right teammates until he teamed up Yao and they both had major injury after major injury. Wade road Shaq, a hot hand from 3, and shoddy officiating to the Finals MVP.

The fact is, Wade had a secondary superstar to use for 4 of his 7 years (he was injured two of those other 3 years). McGrady had a secondary superstar in exactly one of his 7 seasons. His first year in Houston with Yao. After that, Yao and T-Mac were both substantially hurt.

Defenses were a bit tougher in T-Mac's day and Wade doesn't even have to play against the toughest defensive team out there now, because he is on it. Defenses could focus on McGrady for most of his career, Wade and Kobe didn't have to worry about that.

T-Mac was known for his dunking and his turnaround and fall away J's- he was the best around at these from the mid range. Wade's signature move was just getting to the rack and/or line.

Nice writeup, though Wade's defense and playoff performances clearly put him far higher on the All-Time scale than T-Mac could ever hope for.

There's also the fact that T-Mac is a small forward...

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 01:06 AM
How old are you?

25 how old are you :laugh:

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 01:09 AM
Wade is in the top 10 and is definitely a future HOF but not top 3. Lets also keep in mind Ray Allen and Reggie Miller who are the best 3 point shooters of all time. Lets not forget they should be in the conversation as well.

DoJoTheSlasher
06-08-2011, 01:09 AM
He will probably finish 3rd or 4th. He is a top 30 player of all time when it is all said and done.

Kashmir13579
06-08-2011, 01:09 AM
Sounds like another 'in the moment' thread. Someone already listed better alltime players. He could go down as top 3 by careers end, but right now? Cmon, let's stop with this.

Mark Jackson said it. :rolleyes:

Chacarron
06-08-2011, 01:11 AM
Jordan, Kobe, West, then Wade.

Master Mind
06-08-2011, 01:11 AM
25 how old are you :laugh:


Wade is in the top 10 and is definitely a future HOF but not top 3. Lets also keep in mind Ray Allen and Reggie Miller who are the best 3 point shooters of all time. Lets not forget they should be in the conversation as well.

Better question, how long have you been watching sports? Specifically basketball...:eyebrow:

Lakerhead4ever
06-08-2011, 01:15 AM
lmao...wrong or right, if d wade is being held in the same sentence as tmac he has no business being held in the same breathe as kobe or mj haha

Meaze_Gibson
06-08-2011, 01:16 AM
One of biggest Tmac fans but noway..Wade was equal to Mcgrady offensively and better defensively. Hell he led his team to eastern conference semis as a rook, pre Shaq. The thing we forget to mention is that dude is 6'4, yet posts like a sf, boards like a pf, and blocks shots like a center. There has not been a player like him at this position, at that height. Right now I think he's tied with West.

Jewelz0376
06-08-2011, 01:17 AM
Jordan, Kobe, West, then Wade.

Yea i think thats what I would have...Its close between West and Wade tho

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 01:18 AM
Better question, how long have you been watching sports? Specifically basketball...:eyebrow:

Since I was born, i don't see why this is any of your business but I know the game very well. Better then you could ever understand it considering the level I played at. Are you seriously going to try and say Wade is top 3 SG?? Your kidding me right? He's not even the best SG in the NBA right now. Kobe is better, obviously MJ, Drexler better, West Better. Like I said he's in the top 10 but if you seriously think wade is a top 3 sg then your on drugs son.

Master Mind
06-08-2011, 01:18 AM
Just curious, has anyone seen Jerry West play?

kozelkid
06-08-2011, 01:20 AM
Just curious, has anyone seen Jerry West play?

Not live, but I've watched a lot of tapes. And stats also tell a lot.

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 01:22 AM
Just curious, has anyone seen Jerry West play?

My grandfather (god rest is soul) had old *** film of him. My grandfather was a Boston fan and hated but tremendously respected West.

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 01:25 AM
I will give Wade that he is a top 10 sg of all time and a HOF but there is absolutely no way he is a top 3. He's not even top 5, cmon Miami and Wade fans get real here.

The 916 Guy
06-08-2011, 01:26 AM
Top 3 is a stretch I think. I can't honestly say I know that much about Jerry West, but I don't think Wade is better then Jordan or Bryant.

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 01:26 AM
It's funny how everyone says us Knick fans are homers... at least we only argue about our players being better then other players in the league. Miami fans try to say there players are some of the best of all time. seriously Miami fans are living on a different planet these days.

Master Mind
06-08-2011, 01:27 AM
Since I was born, i don't see why this is any of your business but I know the game very well. Better then you could ever understand it considering the level I played at. Are you seriously going to try and say Wade is top 3 SG?? Your kidding me right? He's not even the best SG in the NBA right now. Kobe is better, obviously MJ, Drexler better, West Better. Like I said he's in the top 10 but if you seriously think wade is a top 3 sg then your on drugs son.

I don't care what level you played on and lol @ you understanding sports better than I could ever--I don't have to play to know sports but fortunately I did. I don't have to throw that around. And yes Wade is top 3 and if not he's certainly tied for 3rd. Outside of MJ and Kobe everything's debatable but I stand by my opinion. And Wade has much time to strengthen his case.

Sadds The Gr8
06-08-2011, 01:29 AM
Yeah cause you can tell the future. :rolleyes:

I'm just realistic, unlike you guys who think your team is getting 7+ championships.:facepalm:

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 01:31 AM
I don't care what level you played on and lol @ you understanding sports better than I could ever--I don't have to play to know sports but fortunately I did. I don't have to throw that around. And yes Wade is top 3 and if not he's certainly tied for 3rd. Outside of MJ and Kobe everything's debatable but I stand by my opinion. And Wade has much time to strengthen his case.

Noticed how I didn't say what level I played on? Theres a reason for that, lets just keep it at that. And you are so blinded with homerness and quite honestly dillusional if thats how you really feel. But I can and plenty others can tell you that your dead wrong.

justinnum1
06-08-2011, 01:31 AM
yes wade is a top 3 sg.

NJBASEBALL22
06-08-2011, 01:33 AM
lmao...wrong or right, if d wade is being held in the same sentence as tmac he has no business being held in the same breathe as kobe or mj haha

False. For the first half of this decade, T-Mac and Kobe were the top 2 SGs in the game and it was arguable as to who was better. Offensively and rebounding, T-Mac wins, all-around, Kobe's D gives him the complete package. Kobe also had Shaq until 04. The Shaq effect can not be overlooked. I mean the guy was always double teamed and consistently triple teamed when he got the ball in the post. Kobe was the sidekick, T-Mac was never anyone's sidekick. T-Mac, his teammates actually respected him for playing out of his mind in down the stretch and in the playoffs and while playing injured until his go around with the Rockets. Kobe always *****ed out his teammates and stood them up. He ran Shaq out of town. T-Mac would've gave his left nut to play with Shaq or even Grant Hill. T-Mac most definitely belongs in the same breathe as Kobe.

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 01:33 AM
yes wade is a top 3 sg.

In the league yes, of all time no. God damn you Miami fans are on another planet :laugh:

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 01:35 AM
False. For the first half of this decade, T-Mac and Kobe were the top 2 SGs in the game and it was arguable as to who was better. Offensively and rebounding, T-Mac wins, all-around, Kobe's D gives him the complete package. Kobe also had Shaq until 04. The Shaq effect can not be overlooked. I mean the guy was always double teamed and consistently triple teamed when he got the ball in the post. Kobe was the sidekick, T-Mac was never anyone's sidekick. T-Mac, his teammates actually respected him for playing out of his mind in down the stretch and in the playoffs and while playing injured until his go around with the Rockets. Kobe always *****ed out his teammates and stood them up. He ran Shaq out of town. T-Mac would've gave his left nut to play with Shaq or even Grant Hill. T-Mac most definitely belongs in the same breathe as Kobe.

:crazy:

Master Mind
06-08-2011, 01:36 AM
Since I was born, i don't see why this is any of your business but I know the game very well. Better then you could ever understand it considering the level I played at. Are you seriously going to try and say Wade is top 3 SG?? Your kidding me right? He's not even the best SG in the NBA right now. Kobe is better, obviously MJ, Drexler better, West Better. Like I said he's in the top 10 but if you seriously think wade is a top 3 sg then your on drugs son.


Noticed how I didn't say what level I played on? Theres a reason for that, lets just keep it at that. And you are so blinded with homerness and quite honestly dillusional if thats how you really feel. But I can and plenty others can tell you that your dead wrong.

:confused:

Jewelz0376
06-08-2011, 01:37 AM
False. For the first half of this decade, T-Mac and Kobe were the top 2 SGs in the game and it was arguable as to who was better. Offensively and rebounding, T-Mac wins, all-around, Kobe's D gives him the complete package. Kobe also had Shaq until 04. The Shaq effect can not be overlooked. I mean the guy was always double teamed and consistently triple teamed when he got the ball in the post. Kobe was the sidekick, T-Mac was never anyone's sidekick. T-Mac, his teammates actually respected him for playing out of his mind in down the stretch and in the playoffs and while playing injured until his go around with the Rockets. Kobe always *****ed out his teammates and stood them up. He ran Shaq out of town. T-Mac would've gave his left nut to play with Shaq or even Grant Hill. T-Mac most definitely belongs in the same breathe as Kobe.

Yea cuz its not like Kobe didn't prove he can score without Shaq :rolleyes:

Avenged
06-08-2011, 01:37 AM
yes wade is a top 3 sg.

Not yet.. I'm certain he will be one day though.

NJBASEBALL22
06-08-2011, 01:37 AM
Nice writeup, though Wade's defense and playoff performances clearly put him far higher on the All-Time scale than T-Mac could ever hope for.

There's also the fact that T-Mac is a small forward...

Ah, I thought about that and I really only classify players as points, wings, or bigs. He was always more of a point-forward I guess but in Orlando he was supposed to be the 2 because Hill was a SF.

AIRMAR72
06-08-2011, 01:45 AM
Yes way.


Dude led the league in scoring 4 times and took his team to the finals and gave them the only loss of the playoffs.


Wade obviously has a ring and better defense but I'd rather have AI.


Oh and by the way, Allen Iverson was 6 foot. #JustSayin

iverson was better kobe and led the league in scoring 4x in a kobe era just like you said... this my opinion as of rite now clyde (da glide) drexiler at #2 wade at #3 west at #4 rolando blackman at # 5 iverson at# 6 dumars at #7 richmond at #8 sidney moncrief at #9 kobe is at #10 im basing my opinion on guys who played both ends that ive seen on videos are in the flesh

LionsFan..LOL
06-08-2011, 01:45 AM
Eventually yes.

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 01:46 AM
:confused:

And did you notice that I didn't tell you what level I played on? Because I didn't think it was neccessary to try and justify my argument. You asked me questions, i answered them.

NJBASEBALL22
06-08-2011, 01:46 AM
Yea cuz its not like Kobe didn't prove he can score without Shaq :rolleyes:

I didn't say he couldn't score without Shaq but it makes it easier. There is a reason he was a 46% shooter and it fell to 43% the next two years that Shaq was gone.

My theory is that after Shaq left, teams didn't need to focus 2 extra people on Shaq and could then make Kobe work harder for his shots.

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 01:48 AM
:confused:

Now I have a question for you... are you on drugs?

Master Mind
06-08-2011, 01:49 AM
And did you notice that I didn't tell you what level I played on? Because I didn't think it was neccessary to try and justify my argument. You asked me questions, i answered them.

And like I said, I don't care what level you played on...People don't complain about homerism as much when it comes to other teams but when it comes to the Heat--we're delusional, we're on another planet, blah,blah, blah, rabble, rabble, rabble...If we're blinded by homerism then people are blinded by hate...Simple as that

NJBASEBALL22
06-08-2011, 01:56 AM
:confused: Mcgrady? Wow! In terms of top SG's ever?! Wow!

Yeah, I like peak over longevity. McGrady's peak is up there with the greats. Most people can't touch it. Jordan, Kobe, West, and Wade. Clyde is the next closest. And I normally like my players to have solid shooting numbers and to be all-around players (which T-Mac was but not to the extent of the others).

SP17
06-08-2011, 01:56 AM
iverson was better kobe and led the league in scoring 4x in a kobe era just like you said... this my opinion as of rite now clyde (da glide) drexiler at #2 wade at #3 west at #4 rolando blackman at # 5 iverson at# 6 dumars at #7 richmond at #8 sidney moncrief at #9 kobe is at #10 im basing my opinion on guys who played both ends that ive seen on videos are in the flesh

Best post ever..LMFAO:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 01:57 AM
And like I said, I don't care what level you played on...People complain about homerism but when it's Heat fans we're delusional, we're on another planet, blah,blah, blah, rabble, rabble, rabble...If we're blinded by homerism then people are blinded by hate...Simple as that

I never hated Wade, never will. Its Lebron and Bosh that I think are gay. If you took Wades mentality and put it in Lebrons body then you would have the next best thing to MJ.

Wade to me is like Jeter, he just has that mentality and that "it" about him. He's not overally talented then other players, the guy is just a gamer and thats what seperates him from others.

MTar786
06-08-2011, 01:58 AM
its EASY for me to say wade is the 3rd best shooting guard all time. its not even a debate in my eyes. It goes

1.jordan
2.Kobe
3.Wade




4. (insert name)

Master Mind
06-08-2011, 01:59 AM
I never hated Wade, never will. Its Lebron and Bosh that I think are gay. If you took Wades mentality and put it in Lebrons body then you would have the next best thing to MJ.

Wade to me is like Jeter, he just has that mentality and that "it" about him. He's not overally talented then other players, the guy is just a gamer and thats what seperates him from others.

He's as talented as they come, especially for a guy 6'4...

justinnum1
06-08-2011, 02:00 AM
its EASY for me to say wade is the 3rd best shooting guard all time. its not even a debate in my eyes. It goes

1.jordan
2.Kobe
3.Wade




4. (insert name)

:nod:

HouRealCoach
06-08-2011, 02:04 AM
After what Wade did in Game 4...

I dont want him mentioned within 4 spots of MJ

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 02:04 AM
He's as talented as they come, especially for a guy 6'4...

Wrong, physically he's not. This just proves to me that you know very litte about the game.

meloman1592
06-08-2011, 02:05 AM
Allen Iverson in his prime> Wade in his prime.



Easily.

This x10

NJBASEBALL22
06-08-2011, 02:05 AM
:crazy:

I'm nuts??? Check out what McGrady did from 00/01-04/05. Amazing. Top 3 in PER for 4 of those 5 years (one year he lead the league in it) and PER is a stat that tends to favor shooting percentages.

He averaged 27/6.5/5 during that span. No easy feat. While shooting 44/35/79.

Kobe over that same period averaged 27/6/5.5 while shooting 45/31/83 and playing a bit better defense.
Kobe did that as the second banana, ie. He had less focus on him during the game and the opposing defense could help as much on him as they could on someone, say T-Mac, who was the main offensive threat on his team.

Kobe finished in the top 10 in PER everyone of those seasons but never above 5.

Tuck&Rolle
06-08-2011, 02:07 AM
He's as talented as they come, especially for a guy 6'4...

Anyway I'm out, you can respond to what I said but I'm not gonna read it lol.

MTar786
06-08-2011, 02:08 AM
seriously though. how can u not put wade at number 3? he is IMO the best blocking GUARD of all time. his defense is under rated also. he's extremely efficient. great passer. he is above average in every category. he has no flaws besides freethrows. his range is still sketchy.. but not like how it used to be. Not to mention the fact that he becomes UNREAL in the finals. we saw 06' and now?? tonight he went 13 of 20. game 3 i think he was similar. he's shotting WELL above 50%. i think after wade you gotta with west clyde and tmac. personally id take tmac over clyde though. Btw. lebron really is a weak nba finals type player. i noticed one of his other weakest performances in history was 14 points which was in the finals against SA. he seems to be pretty weak in the finals. tonight he would have only had 2 points if it wasnt for 2 free dunks on fast breaks and a tip in lol.

MTar786
06-08-2011, 02:10 AM
After what Wade did in Game 4...

I dont want him mentioned within 4 spots of MJ

huh? the guy hit 13 of 20 shots tonight! he's the only reason miami is in the series or else it would have been 3-1

numba1CHANGsta
06-08-2011, 02:15 AM
too soon to say, he's Top 10 right now

Master Mind
06-08-2011, 02:23 AM
Wrong, physically he's not. This just proves to me that you know very litte about the game.

Are you serious guy? Where are your handlers? So are you implying that stature/physique equal talent? So by this logic, I guess AI wasn't talented, and Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Deron Williams aren't talented, right? And using your expertise in talent DJ Mbenga is top 5 right? But I get it now, inbred--correct? :eyebrow:

Lil Half Dead
06-08-2011, 02:27 AM
Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Jerry West, Clyde Drexler, Allen Iverson and George Gervin in that order are all guys I'd take instead of Dwayne Wade when it comes to talking all-time.

C-Style
06-08-2011, 02:37 AM
Eventually he will land the 3rd spot but West IS not the logo for no reason, he took his team to the Finals 9 times if I stand correct, He was more clutch, He was a type A defender and is 2nd to Jordan in most pts averaged in playoffs.

bedford1829
06-08-2011, 02:50 AM
Maybe when his career is all said and done but not yet. To make this statement, you have to assuming that he will have 5-6 more seasons of performance at an all-star caliber level and with the highly tumultuous and random nature of the sport, it's impossible to predict anything past the next game on the schedule

I have grown tired of the growing trend on this website of people attempting to
prematurely over qualify the historical impact and legacy of a player before we can objectively survey that players entire body of work.


I'm not saying its the case with Wade but after a player logs a few successful campaigns many fans are ready to throw a player into the pantheon of all time greats.

In terms of ranking players in a historical perspective, let's wait til we can view an entire body of work before we put a player ahead of the all time greats

A lot people tend to devalue many of the all-time greats in favor of the more current players that they are more familiar with and what's far worse they do so without ever seeing some of the greats play or without fully researching and appreciating their career performances.

Im not saying this is the case with everyone as there are plenty of informed and responsible members on this site, but please let's not disrespect the history of the game or devalue the magnitude of the greatness of this game's legends by rushing to move many of today's greats to the front of the line. Be patient and appreciate the here and now and when many of these great careers end then we can discuss their places in
history

Mrphilly
06-08-2011, 02:53 AM
Lebron is the reason so many people are in love with D. Wade. People hate Lebron so much, that they try to make Wade into this Super Hero type basketball player.

This time last year nobody would say Wade was top 3 SG of all time. This time last month, nobody would have said Wade was a top 3 SG of all time.

Jeff559
06-08-2011, 03:09 AM
Jordan #1, Kobe #2, #3.....Mike James

pd7631
06-08-2011, 03:12 AM
Couple years ago ESPN's top 5 SG's were:

Jordan
Bryant
West
Gervin
Iverson


I don't know where Wade fits in, but I don't get where people get that Gervin was better than AI.

AI- 26.7ppg 3.7rpg 6.2apg 2.2stl

Gervin- 25.1ppg 5.3rpg 2.6apg 1.2stl


AI won league MVP, played in the NBA Finals, is 2nd All Time in career playoff scoring average to MJ, is one of only 2 players to ever score 50+pts in the same playoff series(MJ the other), etc........all done at 6 feet 160 pounds.

bedford1829
06-08-2011, 03:15 AM
Couple years ago ESPN's top 5 SG's were:

Jordan
Bryant
West
Gervin
Iverson


I don't know where Wade fits in, but I don't get where people get that Gervin was better than AI.

AI- 26.7ppg 3.7rpg 6.2apg 2.2stl

Gervin- 25.1ppg 5.3rpg 2.6apg 1.2stl


AI won league MVP, played in the NBA Finals, is 2nd All Time in career playoff scoring average to MJ, is one of only 2 players to ever score 50+pts in the same playoff series(MJ the other), etc........all done at 6 feet 160 pounds.


For about a decade, AI was as filthy and relentless of a scorer as this game will ever see. You had to see him to truly appreciate him

MTar786
06-08-2011, 03:31 AM
Lebron is the reason so many people are in love with D. Wade. People hate Lebron so much, that they try to make Wade into this Super Hero type basketball player.

This time last year nobody would say Wade was top 3 SG of all time. This time last month, nobody would have said Wade was a top 3 SG of all time.

i said it. im somebody.

MTar786
06-08-2011, 03:34 AM
For about a decade, AI was as filthy and relentless of a scorer as this game will ever see. You had to see him to truly appreciate him

i put ai at 4th best sg all time. after jordan, kobe and wade. Only because he was a liability on defense and his fg% sucked. not a great ft shooter either

Master Mind
06-08-2011, 03:37 AM
Lebron is the reason so many people are in love with D. Wade. People hate Lebron so much, that they try to make Wade into this Super Hero type basketball player.

This time last year nobody would say Wade was top 3 SG of all time. This time last month, nobody would have said Wade was a top 3 SG of all time.

:facepalm:

MTar786
06-08-2011, 03:38 AM
Eventually he will land the 3rd spot but West IS not the logo for no reason, he took his team to the Finals 9 times if I stand correct, He was more clutch, He was a type A defender and is 2nd to Jordan in most pts averaged in playoffs.

im a laker fan. with that said. id take wade over west. west took us to the finals 9 times n only won once

PurpleJesus
06-08-2011, 03:50 AM
people forgetting reggie miller

eugene
06-08-2011, 04:08 AM
Not now I think... Maybe later on but not now. AI in his prime, Drexler and West were better

Mrphilly
06-08-2011, 04:15 AM
:facepalm:

You opinion doesnt count, You are a Heat fan. You dont know any better.

BallinGid3
06-08-2011, 04:28 AM
I thought it was common knowledge that wade was the 3rd best sg of all time..

MTar786
06-08-2011, 04:28 AM
people forgetting reggie miller

what about reggie?

cmellofan15
06-08-2011, 05:09 AM
**ck stats, when shaq left kobe became the best player in the league and everyone knows it. he destroyed every damn defender that came his way. get the hell outta here sayin tmac can be mentioned in the same breathe,

u act like he didnt have yao ming, who at one point was the best center in the league. are u stupid? tmac could never carry his team and never made it past the first round.

ppl were sayin and are still asking the question is he better than mj. and whether he is or isnt, who do they compare tmac too? easy question grant hill, jerry stackhouse, penny hardaway, basically "could have beens"

delete ur account loser

:laugh2:

McGrady accomplished most of what he's done while he was on the Magic. When he got to the Rockets he had already been bitten by the injury bug. The fact that he had a less than consistent Yao Ming doesn't mean anything because his short lived stardom was primarily on the Magic where he had no support. When McGrady was in his prime he wasn't only mentioned in the same breath as Kobe, he was arguably better. When Kobe was left helpless between 2004 and 2006 he didn't make it past the first round either. The fact that Kobe could "destroy" defenders is irrelevant because McGrady did the same thing against the same competition.

Gambeezy
06-08-2011, 05:09 AM
Allen Iverson in his prime> Wade in his prime.



Easily.

I want what he's smoking. The kicker = 'easily' :laugh2:

broncosfan4eva
06-08-2011, 05:44 AM
When his career is all said and done I think he will be with it going
Jordan
Kobe
Wade

Saad
06-08-2011, 05:59 AM
I dont get how the OP doesnt have Jordon or Kobe on his list...

Anyways. If Wade can win a couple more championships then yah for sure, but as of right now its too early to tell. People like mark jackson just get caught up in the moment too much

naps
06-08-2011, 06:10 AM
Yes way.


Dude led the league in scoring 4 times and took his team to the finals and gave them the only loss of the playoffs.


Wade obviously has a ring and better defense but I'd rather have AI.


Oh and by the way, Allen Iverson was 6 foot. #JustSayin

LMAO! None of those arguments proves AI is better than Wade. Wade is better than AI even in his sleep. Wade has done more in his career and all your arguments are going in favor of Wade and you still wanna rather have AI proves your are a pure jealousy. Wade will be the top shooting guard of all time if he stays healthy. No doubt in my mind.

naps
06-08-2011, 06:15 AM
mj
kobe
west
and then its a toss up. wade hasnt done nothing yet, as far as individual stats go. miller, iverson, has doen everything hes done except win a ring.

plus iverson too his team to the finals alllllll by himself. wade had a sidekick in shaq, and has two sidekicks now.

if iverson had lets say a chris bosh..hmmm

wade has some work to do, although i do see him grasping that 3rd spot eventually

What has Kobe done from 2004-2007? When has anyone won without a strong team and strong sidekicks? WTF is your point? Is it a coincidence that mostly the Laker homers are hating on Wade?

Oh by the way, how is the fishing going on?

blacknell
06-08-2011, 07:42 AM
They brought up a good point during the game. Would you put Wade in the top 3 SG's ever as of today?

I'm curious to hear people debate this. I don't think I've made up my mind yet. Sway me.


Top shooting guards

Allen Iverson
Pistol Pete
George Gervin
Jerry West
Clyde Drexler

your list just pissed me off and sucks you left off the greatest player of all time

wjmoffatt
06-08-2011, 07:50 AM
They brought up a good point during the game. Would you put Wade in the top 3 SG's ever as of today?

I'm curious to hear people debate this. I don't think I've made up my mind yet. Sway me.


Top shooting guards

Allen Iverson
Pistol Pete
George Gervin
Jerry West
Clyde Drexler

Why isn't Kobe, Jordan, or Reggie Miller on this list? We all know MJ and Kobe are the top too, and Reggie Miller doesn't get any of the respect he deserves. He carried the Pacers to the Eastern Finals countless times and he never had a Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, or Shaq.

wjmoffatt
06-08-2011, 07:54 AM
What has Kobe done from 2004-2007? When has anyone won without a strong team and strong sidekicks? WTF is your point? Is it a coincidence that mostly the Laker homers are hating on Wade?

Oh by the way, how is the fishing going on?

Kobe did better than Wade did when he didn't have anyone too in those years. He should've been MVP one time, instead the league screwed him of it and gave it to Nash. During that span he had the 81 point game, and outscored the MAVS by himself through 3 quarters! He had LA up 3-1 in a series vs the #2 Suns by hitting two buzzer beaters in one game! Wade won 1 playoff game in that span. He also, got em back again the next year and own 2 games by himself. And the supporting cast during those years may have been the worst in history! PG-Smush Parker (WHO?) SF- Luke Walton (REALLY) PF-Odom (That's ok) C- Kwame Brown (Worst #1 pick ever)

jockrider
06-08-2011, 08:01 AM
i think wade will be ranked ahead of kobe, i think he's as good as kobe ever was.

MTar786
06-08-2011, 08:02 AM
you guys say if wade wins a couple more championships then maybe you can put him down at number 3. but who besides kobe and jordan has more accolades than wade even to this point of his career? only jerry west is there for argument sake.

wade has 1 more finals mvp than anyone else ud argue at te 3 spot. he even has better finals performances and more rings which is sad. because wade only has one.
miller has no rings
drexler has no rings
iverson as no rings

so yes, wade deserves to be in the discussion for top 3.. not at the end of his career or when he gets more rings.. but RIGHT NOW

metsfan99999
06-08-2011, 08:03 AM
I have him at 5th if he retired today. 5-10 years down the road I think he'll surpass Iverson and West, but if Wade retired today it would be

Jordan
Kobe
West
Iverson
Wade

MTar786
06-08-2011, 08:03 AM
i think wade will be ranked ahead of kobe, i think he's as good as kobe ever was.

LOL lets not get ahead of ourselves now :facepalm:

jockrider
06-08-2011, 08:07 AM
LOL lets not get ahead of ourselves now :facepalm:

what has kobe done? ride shaqs coatails to three titles then put up big numbers on pathetic teams then finally in his 30's win back to back titles if wade wins finals mvp this year he has won a title as the man twice just like kobe.

MTar786
06-08-2011, 08:16 AM
what has kobe done? ride shaqs coatails to three titles then put up big numbers on pathetic teams then finally in his 30's win back to back titles if wade wins finals mvp this year he has won a title as the man twice just like kobe.

umm.. when you say wade is the man (which implies) lebron is not. then i already know im arguing with an idiot.

kobe 5 rings
wade 1

kobe 2 finals mvp
wade 1

has wade ever even been considered the best player in the nba by anyone at any point? the guy isnt even the best on his own team.

il add the rest for fun.

kobe 81
wade like 46? lol

kobe 9 time all nba defense
wade ??

kobe 1 mvp
wade 0

kobe 4 time all star game mvp
wade 1

wjmoffatt
06-08-2011, 08:19 AM
what has kobe done? ride shaqs coatails to three titles then put up big numbers on pathetic teams then finally in his 30's win back to back titles if wade wins finals mvp this year he has won a title as the man twice just like kobe.

Yea because Kobe had nothing to do with those first three titles! I'm sorry he won his competition battles in all three finals against the best SG's! Something Wade has never had to face in the PLAYOFFS, not the Finals. He played Miller, Iverson, and Vince Carter! And won each battle! Shaq played against who in those three: Rick Smitts (WHAT LMAO), Dereck Coleman (REALLY HA), and Aaron Williams, come on now! That's the only reason that Shaq was MVP! Kobe had all the hard matchups back then, and he would still win them, if not they had no chance.

jockrider
06-08-2011, 08:20 AM
umm.. when you say wade is the man (which implies) lebron is not. then i already know im arguing with an idiot.

kobe 5 rings
wade 1

kobe 2 finals mvp
wade 1

has wade ever even been considered the best player in the nba by anyone at any point? the guy isnt even the best on his own team.

il add the rest for fun.

kobe 81
wade like 46? lol

kobe 9 time all nba defense
wade ??

kobe 1 mvp
wade 0

kobe 4 time all star game mvp
wade 1

lol all of you are saying lebron sucks and this is wades team but when it fits your arguement lebron is the man.

who cares about allstar game mvps? lol and points you score in the regualr season?

wjmoffatt
06-08-2011, 08:21 AM
umm.. when you say wade is the man (which implies) lebron is not. then i already know im arguing with an idiot.

kobe 5 rings
wade 1

kobe 2 finals mvp
wade 1

has wade ever even been considered the best player in the nba by anyone at any point? the guy isnt even the best on his own team.

il add the rest for fun.

kobe 81
wade like 46? lol

kobe 9 time all nba defense
wade ??

kobe 1 mvp
wade 0

kobe 4 time all star game mvp
wade 1

And if the media didn't hate him back in the day it would read...
Kobe 3 MVPs

wjmoffatt
06-08-2011, 08:23 AM
lol all of you are saying lebron sucks and this is wades team but when it fits your arguement lebron is the man.

Who left who's hometown to go to the others team? Lebron fans need to be off it, we only criticize because you give the man to much credit that he hasn't earned! Because he was the fastest to score such and such points, his great? Well hell Josh Smith in that sense must be one of the best defenders to ever play the game since he was the fastest to such in such blocks by far.

jockrider
06-08-2011, 08:23 AM
Yea because Kobe had nothing to do with those first three titles! I'm sorry he won his competition battles in all three finals against the best SG's! Something Wade has never had to face in the PLAYOFFS, not the Finals. He played Miller, Iverson, and Vince Carter! And won each battle! Shaq played against who in those three: Rick Smitts (WHAT LMAO), Dereck Coleman (REALLY HA), and Aaron Williams, come on now! That's the only reason that Shaq was MVP! Kobe had all the hard matchups back then, and he would still win them, if not they had no chance.

vince carter?

jockrider
06-08-2011, 08:25 AM
Who left who's hometown to go to the others team? Lebron fans need to be off it, we only criticize because you give the man to much credit that he hasn't earned! Because he was the fastest to score such and such points, his great? Well hell Josh Smith in that sense must be one of the best defenders to ever play the game since he was the fastest to such in such blocks by far.

who cares if he left his hometown? do you care about cavs fans feelings? and im not really talking about bron im comfortable saying wade is the best in the league and he can when its all said and done rank ahead of kobe.

MTar786
06-08-2011, 08:29 AM
who cares if he left his hometown? do you care about cavs fans feelings? and im not really talking about bron im comfortable saying wade is the best in the league and he can when its all said and done rank ahead of kobe.

firstly, u didnt say he'd rank above kobe all time when its all said and done. u said he ranks higher than kobe already. either way ur wrong. wades almost 30.

secondly, lebron is better than wade. he demands a lot more attention and can do everything to a higer degree

wjmoffatt
06-08-2011, 08:31 AM
vince carter?

Your going to sreiously tell me that back then vince carter wasn't good?
Vince ranking in PPG
1999- 4th
2000- 5th
2001- 7th
2002-7th
2003- 7th
2004- 8th
Wade
05- 5th
06- not ranked
07- not ranked
08- 1st
09- 5th
10- 4th
AT LEAST Vince was top 8 very year

jockrider
06-08-2011, 08:33 AM
i think wade will be ranked ahead of kobe, i think he's as good as kobe ever was.


firstly, u didnt say he'd rank above kobe all time when its all said and done. u said he ranks higher than kobe already. either way ur wrong. wades almost 30.

secondly, lebron is better than wade. he demands a lot more attention and can do everything to a higer degree

as you can see i said KOBE not the best sg ever.

MTar786
06-08-2011, 08:33 AM
its an opinion board can't even post what i feel?

yeah and that is my opinon on you lol. make sense when you speak and then you'd be worth speaking to. have something that is worth debating at least. like if you want to argue that wade is better at this point of his career tan kobe then that is ARGUABLE. but saying wades had the better career is NON SENSE. its even sad you say wade is better than kobe's ever been.

jockrider
06-08-2011, 08:34 AM
Your going to sreiously tell me that back then vince carter wasn't good?
Vince ranking in PPG
1999- 4th
2000- 5th
2001- 7th
2002-7th
2003- 7th
2004- 8th
Wade
05- 5th
06- not ranked
07- not ranked
08- 1st
09- 5th
10- 4th
AT LEAST Vince was top 8 very year

with your last post you made it seem like carter and kobe battled in the finals.

MTar786
06-08-2011, 08:35 AM
as you can see i said KOBE not the best sg ever.

ur post just stated it there again. you said wade is better than kobe ever was. come back to me when the guy can hit a free throw at least

jockrider
06-08-2011, 08:36 AM
yeah and that is my opinon on you lol. make sense when you speak and then you'd be worth speaking to. have something that is worth debating at least. like if you want to argue that wade is better at this point of his career tan kobe then that is ARGUABLE. but saying wades had the better career is NON SENSE. its even sad you say wade is better than kobe's ever been.

when did i say that?

wjmoffatt
06-08-2011, 08:37 AM
who cares if he left his hometown? do you care about cavs fans feelings? and im not really talking about bron im comfortable saying wade is the best in the league and he can when its all said and done rank ahead of kobe.

How they hell can he rank ahead of Kobe, on what credential level? You can't say things like that just because you like someone, you need to have a credential list, and facts to base it upon!

Here's mine for example
-To be the best you need rings
-Need MVPs
-Need All NBA Defensive Teams
-Need scoring titles
-Need Records or where you rank on the record list
-Who you played with factors in (when you won titles)

jockrider
06-08-2011, 08:38 AM
ur post just stated it there again. you said wade is better than kobe ever was. come back to me when the guy can hit a free throw at least

i said wade WILL be ranked ahead im not saying now if their careers ended now obviously kobe will look superior.

todu82
06-08-2011, 08:38 AM
Not yet.

MTar786
06-08-2011, 08:39 AM
anyway. i dont have time to argue with you anymore.

1.jordan
2.kobe
3.wade

everyone will agree there OR they will rank wade even lower than 3. maybe 4 or 5 or 6. but 98% here will tell you 1 and 2 are cemented. you can deal with it and move on or just be ignorant. ur choice buddy.

jockrider
06-08-2011, 08:39 AM
How they hell can he rank ahead of Kobe, on what credential level? You can't say things like that just because you like someone, you need to have a credential list, and facts to base it upon!

Here's mine for example
-To be the best you need rings
-Need MVPs
-Need All NBA Defensive Teams
-Need scoring titles
-Need Records or where you rank on the record list
-Who you played with factors in (when you won titles)

last time i checked wade is only 29 he can do those things and obviously it was dumb putting kobe on the all defense team this year.

JasonJohnHorn
06-08-2011, 08:39 AM
Wade's having a great series, and he is a great player.

But lets look at the long view
First, Piston Pete was a PG, so he's not even in the conversation, nor wouldnt be even if he was a SG. Way too many turnovers.

SG:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Jerry West
4. Clyde Drexler
5. ??? I dunno... lets go with Gervin, or Havlechek.


Wade has talent enough to break the top five should he continue his career as he has started it, but lets not get too crazy.

Magic Johnson, though he finished his career at PG, played shooting guard for the first half of his career, and though it was his skills as a passer that made him great, Norm Nixon is a arguable a top-ten PG all time and did handle the Point for the first half of his career. Though I'd list Magic as a PG, his time at shooting guard was more impressive to me than Wade's tenure at SG (and lets not foget, Wade was a PG the first couple seasons).

MTar786
06-08-2011, 08:40 AM
oh so now ur admitting you believe wade isnt as good as kobe ever was. cuz u just said earlier that wade is better than kobe ever was

wjmoffatt
06-08-2011, 08:41 AM
with your last post you made it seem like carter and kobe battled in the finals.

Do you not understand any point here! The orginal post that you brought into question was when i said "Kobe had all the hard matchups in the finals: Vince, Reggie, and AI. Shaq had all the easy ones: Rick Smitts, Dereck Coleman, and Aaron Williams" You questioned Vince Carter, and i showed you he was a great player, an All Star, and a Olympic player! That was the whole argument, because you said Kobe road Shaq's coattail, when in fact Kobe was doing all the hard work!

wjmoffatt
06-08-2011, 08:43 AM
last time i checked wade is only 29 he can do those things and obviously it was dumb putting kobe on the all defense team this year.

Only 29???? Kobe is 32!
So with that said for Wade to do what Kobe has done at his age, Wade probably needs to average over 50points every game, and win this year, next year, year after, and finally win his 22, and get an MVP in one of those years, idk if his points would even be near Kobe's if that was the case too.

MTar786
06-08-2011, 08:44 AM
last time i checked wade is only 29 he can do those things and obviously it was dumb putting kobe on the all defense team this year.

that gives wade 3-4 more seasons of production after this. he will be 30 by next season. so i guess wade will have to 4peat to catch kobe in the accolades dep. thats if kobe doesnt win anymore in that time frame. wade is only 3 years younger than kobe.

jockrider
06-08-2011, 08:45 AM
Do you not understand any point here! The orginal post that you brought into question was when i said "Kobe had all the hard matchups in the finals: Vince, Reggie, and AI. Shaq had all the easy ones: Rick Smitts, Dereck Coleman, and Aaron Williams" You questioned Vince Carter, and i showed you he was a great player, an All Star, and a Olympic player! That was the whole argument, because you said Kobe road Shaq's coattail, when in fact Kobe was doing all the hard work!

i know i understood but whats the point of bringing up carter? they only faced up twice a season and never played in meaningful games against eachother i get what ur saying though.

jockrider
06-08-2011, 08:47 AM
oh so now ur admitting you believe wade isnt as good as kobe ever was. cuz u just said earlier that wade is better than kobe ever was

as a player and not considering accomplishments yes, imo

wjmoffatt
06-08-2011, 08:52 AM
last time i checked wade is only 29 he can do those things and obviously it was dumb putting kobe on the all defense team this year.

Kobe points 27,868
Wade points 13,908
Only 3 years difference! Kobe doubles him up! So but to bed anyone, not saying you bub, that says Wade is or can be better then Kobe. Don't live in the moment, Kobe has done it for more then just two series, his done it for an entire career!

wjmoffatt
06-08-2011, 08:55 AM
i know i understood but whats the point of bringing up carter? they only faced up twice a season and never played in meaningful games against eachother i get what ur saying though.

They played in the 2003 finals, that's why i'm saying it. Those three players i mentioned for Shaq and for Kobe were who each had individual matchups against in the NBA FINALS from 01-03. The years you said Kobe road Shaq's coat tail

jockrider
06-08-2011, 08:59 AM
They played in the 2003 finals, that's why i'm saying it. Those three players i mentioned for Shaq and for Kobe were who each had individual matchups against in the NBA FINALS from 01-03. The years you said Kobe road Shaq's coat tail

umm vince was never in the finals with the raptors im a raptors fan we're second round virgins.

ne3xchamps
06-08-2011, 09:03 AM
They brought up a good point during the game. Would you put Wade in the top 3 SG's ever as of today?

I'm curious to hear people debate this. I don't think I've made up my mind yet. Sway me.


Top shooting guards

Allen Iverson
Pistol Pete
George Gervin
Jerry West
Clyde Drexler

Did you forget some guy name Michael Jordan? And Kobe bryant?? Wade isn't even close to top 3, come on dude.

ne3xchamps
06-08-2011, 09:05 AM
I'd take Wade over West 10 out of 10 times.

That's not a homer pick is it? :rolleyes:

wjmoffatt
06-08-2011, 09:05 AM
umm vince was never in the finals with the raptors im a raptors fan we're second round virgins.

Do you not know basketball, he played for the New Jersey Nets!

jockrider
06-08-2011, 09:09 AM
Do you not know basketball, he played for the New Jersey Nets!

LOL! 2003 he played for the raptors!!:facepalm:

benzni
06-08-2011, 09:17 AM
I'd take Wade over West 10 out of 10 times.

OBVIOUSLY mr Heat Fan. So would I though :cool:

NJBASEBALL22
06-08-2011, 09:21 AM
:laugh2:

McGrady accomplished most of what he's done while he was on the Magic. When he got to the Rockets he had already been bitten by the injury bug. The fact that he had a less than consistent Yao Ming doesn't mean anything because his short lived stardom was primarily on the Magic where he had no support. When McGrady was in his prime he wasn't only mentioned in the same breath as Kobe, he was arguably better. When Kobe was left helpless between 2004 and 2006 he didn't make it past the first round either. The fact that Kobe could "destroy" defenders is irrelevant because McGrady did the same thing against the same competition.

Thank you. :clap: That was perfect. I didn't even have to respond... someone other than me gets it.

Evolution23
06-08-2011, 09:25 AM
Wade has been amazing in the finals. He turned me into a fan. Not even Kobe was able to do what Wade is doing, at least not at the level at which Wade is doing it. It's as if he was saving his energy for the finals and he just went into 6th gear red lined it.

vantroi775
06-08-2011, 09:30 AM
they brought up a good point during the game. Would you put wade in the top 3 sg's ever as of today?

I'm curious to hear people debate this. I don't think i've made up my mind yet. Sway me.


Top shooting guards

allen iverson
pistol pete
george gervin
jerry west
clyde drexler


lol this idiot left mj and kobe off the top sg list.

What more can you say? Thats like leaving wilt and kareem off the top centers list.

You are a complete ******! The end.

NJBASEBALL22
06-08-2011, 09:32 AM
Did you forget some guy name Michael Jordan? And Kobe bryant?? Wade isn't even close to top 3, come on dude.

I think he is assuming everyone knows that they are top 2 and his list are the players up for the 3 spot.

MagicHero3
06-08-2011, 09:33 AM
what you have to do is look back at Wade in his last finals in 2006. he BALLED OUT! when push comes to shove, this guy shows up.

Crackadalic
06-08-2011, 09:55 AM
Im not even gonna read all the stupid or homer comments. Granted I love the guy since his college days but he is not a top 3 sg of all time just yet. He hasnt pass guys like MJ kobe Jerry etc and there are still others ahead of him

Tarheels23
06-08-2011, 10:01 AM
1) Jordan
2) Kobe
3) West
4) Gervin
5) Wade
6) Drexler
7) Reggie
8) Iverson
9) Earl Monroe
10) Ray Allen

emman03
06-08-2011, 10:06 AM
lets stop this thread because wade is not yet done on his career he can add more in his resume. but my opinion about top sg in the league i think we don't need to look at the stats and the accomplishment we need to look the overall skills ok MJ is the greatest of course no doubt his the one but top 2 and so on is not set who knows someday there will be a great player can beat MJ accomplishment? but i give D-Wade credit for being a top sg he lacks the height on that position he battles in injuries he started his career being overshadow of LBJ greatness and Kobe's prime years... he so underrated this league give a name that a six foot four guard can play like d-wade's offense defense game lets be realistic don't look at the rings dont look at the stats dont look the mvp's let look the skills ability...

MJ- 6foot6 has the offensive and defensive skills
KB- 6foot6 has the offensive and defensive skills (but less what he rated by the media and others)
WEST- 6foot2 has the offensive and defensive skills (less block shots)
GERVIN- 6foot7 has the offensive and defensive skills (but his tall)
AI- 6foot0 has the offensive and defensive skills (less block shots)
T-Mac 6foot8 has the offensive and defensive skills (his tall)
V.C 6foot6 has the offensive and defensive skills
R. Allen 6foot5 has the offensive and defensive skills (less in this category)
R. Miller 6foot7 has the offensive and defensive skills (less in this category)

i mention all of you guys who saying top 9 sg can be in top 10 sg in all time but not in order for the stable rankings is only MJ heres the last on the list and i dont know where he ranks but lets see

Dwyane Tyrone Wade, Jr - 6foot4
has the offensive and defensive skills

as you can see my top ten list only MJ and VC has the O and D unlike others they lack in some category maybe block shots or steals... but the difference of the 3 D-Wade is only 6-foot-4 unlike the MJ and VC 6foot6 taller than D-Wade tell me in my top list who is capable of doing this

dribbling and steal like a PG
shoots like a SG
penetrates like a SF
post down low like a PF
blocking shots and dunk like a C

who is 6-foot-4 guard who almost playing all around player he can be a pound for pound in terms in boxing

if you want to rank something because of their greatness please don't look the accomplishment look at the over all ability of the person because if we base it on the accomplishment some of them played in different era they have different match ups and different teammates then if you judge them base of their skills because if you judge the achievements sometimes the reason of their achievements is teammates injuries selfish player overrated by media and already has a great in his position in his era or before his era before he came in the league. if you rank like my basis i think now you get your real list.

D-Block21-Chito
06-08-2011, 10:10 AM
lol not yet but yes to top 10

macc
06-08-2011, 10:14 AM
Did you forget some guy name Michael Jordan? And Kobe bryant?? Wade isn't even close to top 3, come on dude.



Lol, this is funny because most people figured it out. Some people, like this guy are struggling with the "simple" concept here.

My thread was "Wade top 3 SG ever?" Obviously MJ is one and Kobe is two. I don't think there's much debating that.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?

macc
06-08-2011, 10:15 AM
lol this idiot left mj and kobe off the top sg list.

What more can you say? Thats like leaving wilt and kareem off the top centers list.

You are a complete ******! The end.

LOL, just like this guy. You as well didn't get the simple concept here either. Obviously MJ is 1 and Kobe is 2, we are debating the 3rd best, hense the reason the thread is titled top 3. Do you understand this simple concept now?

GiantsSwaGG
06-08-2011, 10:20 AM
Im not even gonna read all the stupid or homer comments. Granted I love the guy since his college days but he is not a top 3 sg of all time just yet. He hasnt pass guys like MJ kobe Jerry etc and there are still others ahead of him

This...

This had Homer written all over it!

GiantsSwaGG
06-08-2011, 10:21 AM
I'd take Wade over West 10 out of 10 times.

:facepalm:

macc
06-08-2011, 10:21 AM
Kobe points 27,868
Wade points 13,908
Only 3 years difference! Kobe doubles him up! So but to bed anyone, not saying you bub, that says Wade is or can be better then Kobe. Don't live in the moment, Kobe has done it for more then just two series, his done it for an entire career!




Really? Kobe has been in the NBA 14 seasons, D Wade has been in 8 seasons, that's 6 seasons difference, where do you get 3 years? Simple math to difficult for you?

Lo Porto
06-08-2011, 10:26 AM
He sure didn't look like a top 3 SG of all time in the Chicago series. For that matter, he didn't look like a top 3 SG of all time since the Finals of 2006 until this series.

GiantsSwaGG
06-08-2011, 10:29 AM
I don't care what level you played on and lol @ you understanding sports better than I could ever--I don't have to play to know sports but fortunately I did. I don't have to throw that around. And yes Wade is top 3 and if not he's certainly tied for 3rd. Outside of MJ and Kobe everything's debatable but I stand by my opinion. And Wade has much time to strengthen his case.

I guess you wasn't old enough to see Garvin and West play

RaidersLakers24
06-08-2011, 10:36 AM
i think wade will be ranked ahead of kobe, i think he's as good as kobe ever was.

Yeah and only 12-13 year old would say something stupid Like that... When has wade had a jumper? Post up game as good as kobes? Clutch? Better free throw shooter? Championships? Mvps?

BigCityofDreams
06-08-2011, 10:42 AM
umm.. when you say wade is the man (which implies) lebron is not. then i already know im arguing with an idiot.

kobe 5 rings
wade 1

kobe 2 finals mvp
wade 1

has wade ever even been considered the best player in the nba by anyone at any point? the guy isnt even the best on his own team.

il add the rest for fun.

kobe 81
wade like 46? lol

kobe 9 time all nba defense
wade ??

kobe 1 mvp
wade 0

kobe 4 time all star game mvp
wade 1

Kobe is not the best and never will be but over the past couple of months it seems like ppl have gone out of their way to tear down what he has done. "He was bailed out in game 7 last yr. Wade will pass him as the 2nd best shooting guard ever. His last two rings are because of Pau Kobe wasn't a big factor."

justinnum1
06-08-2011, 10:42 AM
Yeah and only 12-13 year old would say something stupid Like that... When has wade had a jumper? Post up game as good as kobes? Clutch? Better free throw shooter? Championships? Mvps?

When wade's career is over he will be ahead of kobe.

MiamiWadeCounty
06-08-2011, 10:43 AM
I guess you wasn't old enough to see Garvin and West play

I'm not sure anybody was old enough to see "Garvin" play. And I find it hard to believe you have seen West play a lot. Not just his highlights, but seasons worth of games considering he was drafted in the early 60's I believe. I think right now Wade is easily the 4th best SG of all-time behind MJ, Kobe, and West. Statistically speaking guys like Clyde Drexler and The Iceman are not as good as Wade. Added to the fact that Wade has a Finals MVP and he passes them. If the Heat win the finals then most likely Wade would get MVP which would imo put him past Jerry West.

da1nonlydre16
06-08-2011, 10:44 AM
as of today i'd say wade is the 5th best sg ever. thats after MJ, Kobe, West, Drexler and before iverson and gervin. Wades statline is 25 5 and 5. He has been one of the best two way players in the game in the past 20 years and he already has a ring. if he wins another ring this year, id put him above Drexler. And if he gets ring # 3 then id def put him top 3. The only reason id say Kobe is #2 and not West is because Kobe has the rings. But take away those rings and West is by far #2 on my list. But for those of you saying Wade isnt top 5. Iverson doesnt have a ring and neither does Gervin. Besides scoring and getting steals iverson wasnt rebounding and blocking shots like Wade is. and Iverson was my favorite player in the league before the Heat drafted wade so im not hating.

GiantsSwaGG
06-08-2011, 10:48 AM
When wade's career is over he will be ahead of kobe.

How?

NJBASEBALL22
06-08-2011, 10:56 AM
Really? Kobe has been in the NBA 14 seasons, D Wade has been in 8 seasons, that's 6 seasons difference, where do you get 3 years? Simple math to difficult for you?

He was going by age.

albertc86
06-08-2011, 10:57 AM
Wade is one of the greatest SG's ever. I think we're all in agreement that the #3 position is up for grabs but he still has some more winning to do.

NJBASEBALL22
06-08-2011, 10:58 AM
I'm not sure anybody was old enough to see "Garvin" play. And I find it hard to believe you have seen West play a lot. Not just his highlights, but seasons worth of games considering he was drafted in the early 60's I believe. I think right now Wade is easily the 4th best SG of all-time behind MJ, Kobe, and West. Statistically speaking guys like Clyde Drexler and The Iceman are not as good as Wade. Added to the fact that Wade has a Finals MVP and he passes them. If the Heat win the finals then most likely Wade would get MVP which would imo put him past Jerry West.

We need to get Bagwell in here. He has seen them all play, back to Russell and West.

JordansBulls
06-08-2011, 10:59 AM
Yes way.


Dude led the league in scoring 4 times and took his team to the finals and gave them the only loss of the playoffs.


Wade obviously has a ring and better defense but I'd rather have AI.


Oh and by the way, Allen Iverson was 6 foot. #JustSayin

This is insane. You can't believe this.

BigCityofDreams
06-08-2011, 11:01 AM
Wade is one of the greatest SG's ever. I think we're all in agreement that the #3 position is up for grabs but he still has some more winning to do.

The OP iis going on the fact that MJ and 24 are 1 and 2

BigCityofDreams
06-08-2011, 11:02 AM
How?

because Kobe is the most overrated player of all time and somehow Wade and Lebron will win 10 titles and split all the MVP awards.

marlinsfan24
06-08-2011, 11:03 AM
umm.. when you say wade is the man (which implies) lebron is not. then i already know im arguing with an idiot.

kobe 5 rings
wade 1

kobe 2 finals mvp
wade 1

has wade ever even been considered the best player in the nba by anyone at any point? the guy isnt even the best on his own team.

il add the rest for fun.

kobe 81
wade like 46? lol

kobe 9 time all nba defense
wade ??

kobe 1 mvp
wade 0

kobe 4 time all star game mvp
wade 1

While I agree with you that Wade won't be as good as Kobe, the stats I bolded are accolades I believe Wade has been robbed of...

marlinsfan24
06-08-2011, 11:07 AM
He sure didn't look like a top 3 SG of all time in the Chicago series. For that matter, he didn't look like a top 3 SG of all time since the Finals of 2006 until this series.

You need to go back and watch the last two seasons then my friend.

BigCityofDreams
06-08-2011, 11:09 AM
While I agree with you that Wade won't be as good as Kobe, the stats I bolded are accolades I believe Wade has been robbed of...

True but the same can be said about anyone throughout the history of the game. There will be a time when Wade is winning accolades that he doesn't deserve. Hell Derek Jeter is leading the all start voting for shortstops

flclfanman
06-08-2011, 11:10 AM
Your list forgot OSCAR ROBERTSON

Wade's a great SG, top 3? Not yet.

Better than West or the Big-O? HELL NO

3RDASYSTEM
06-08-2011, 11:12 AM
Iverson was more a combo guard,but should be labeled a PG because where in the world do you get a 5'10 SG? He wasnt 6ft,thats what makes him carrying that team even more special,when has a GM ever been that dumb to build a team of 1 scorer and that scorer is under 6ft, now when judging the best player everybody these days always add in Rings and other things to decide whos better, but if we are talking about solely individual play/skill/athlete then AI is 2nd or 1B because nobody balled tougher or faced the pressure he did and had to deliver,EXAMPLE:he had to take 41 yea 41 shots in that game 1 against the Lakers,i bet Heat big 3 combined for that many shots last nite,give or take a few,im just guessing..but the point is you should never have a 1 guy take that many shots and its called 'ballhogging with a purpose'(team needed it), kinda like how Rose got the media pass for it and he had way more established/talented players than AI,people keep talking about prime this and prime that, im talking about from 93-2008,guess he was prime for a long while and he didnt lose a half step until the 07-08 seasons,only Barry Sanders and Brett Favre can claim level of greatness playing the same game/style,but Favre/AI did it longer

TOP SG's
Jordan/AI
Wade/Bryant
Gervin/West/Drexler etc...Those are the best from the 'eye' test and i always called Wade a bigger version of AI since his inception,tho he was never as skilled off top,thats the thing i think people keep getting twisted about AI being a volume shooter by default(being only scoring option) and a guy who was running baseline to baseline off screens to do what shooters do....Shoot, and he was damn good at it

AIMelo=KillaDUO
06-08-2011, 11:18 AM
Allen Iverson in his prime> Wade in his prime.



Easily.

Exactly what I was thinking....

Wade right now, if his career ended today, he would not be top 3 SG's all time. By the time his career ends he problley will be.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
06-08-2011, 11:21 AM
While I agree with you that Wade won't be as good as Kobe, the stats I bolded are accolades I believe Wade has been robbed of...

Agreed. Wade shoulda won MVP in 09

NJBASEBALL22
06-08-2011, 11:23 AM
lets stop this thread because wade is not yet done on his career he can add more in his resume. but my opinion about top sg in the league i think we don't need to look at the stats and the accomplishment we need to look the overall skills ok MJ is the greatest of course no doubt his the one but top 2 and so on is not set who knows someday there will be a great player can beat MJ accomplishment? but i give D-Wade credit for being a top sg he lacks the height on that position he battles in injuries he started his career being overshadow of LBJ greatness and Kobe's prime years... he so underrated this league give a name that a six foot four guard can play like d-wade's offense defense game lets be realistic don't look at the rings dont look at the stats dont look the mvp's let look the skills ability...

MJ- 6foot6 has the offensive and defensive skills
KB- 6foot6 has the offensive and defensive skills (but less what he rated by the media and others)
WEST- 6foot2 has the offensive and defensive skills (less block shots)
GERVIN- 6foot7 has the offensive and defensive skills (but his tall)
AI- 6foot0 has the offensive and defensive skills (less block shots)
T-Mac 6foot8 has the offensive and defensive skills (his tall)
V.C 6foot6 has the offensive and defensive skills
R. Allen 6foot5 has the offensive and defensive skills (less in this category)
R. Miller 6foot7 has the offensive and defensive skills (less in this category)

i mention all of you guys who saying top 9 sg can be in top 10 sg in all time but not in order for the stable rankings is only MJ heres the last on the list and i dont know where he ranks but lets see

Dwyane Tyrone Wade, Jr - 6foot4
has the offensive and defensive skills

as you can see my top ten list only MJ and VC has the O and D unlike others they lack in some category maybe block shots or steals... but the difference of the 3 D-Wade is only 6-foot-4 unlike the MJ and VC 6foot6 taller than D-Wade tell me in my top list who is capable of doing this

dribbling and steal like a PG
shoots like a SG
penetrates like a SF
post down low like a PF
blocking shots and dunk like a C

who is 6-foot-4 guard who almost playing all around player he can be a pound for pound in terms in boxing

if you want to rank something because of their greatness please don't look the accomplishment look at the over all ability of the person because if we base it on the accomplishment some of them played in different era they have different match ups and different teammates then if you judge them base of their skills because if you judge the achievements sometimes the reason of their achievements is teammates injuries selfish player overrated by media and already has a great in his position in his era or before his era before he came in the league. if you rank like my basis i think now you get your real list.

Lol at this. MJ and VC are the only ones that can compete with Wade all around??? Kobe was just as complete and VC didn't play defense. And to even say Gervin played defense is pretty laughable. Wade blocks shots like a center?? You must not have seen Jordan play. I remember seeing Jordan swat one of Ewing's shots into the 8th row over the Bulls bench. Not to mention, Jordan averaged just as many blocks a game as Wade until he hit his decline. Plus, Wade and everyone else can't touch Jordan on steals. There is a lot more to defense than blocks and steals... check out Rodman's... Rodman, maybe the best defensive PF ever never averaged over a block or steal a game for any season of his career. Even your comment about shooting like a SG. He is a 29% shooter from three. The modern 2-guards can stick that.

Bookey
06-08-2011, 11:50 AM
MJ
Kobe
D.Wade
AI
Jerry West
(only if T-Mac could have stayed healthy,I would put him in there in his prime)

RaidersLakers24
06-08-2011, 11:57 AM
because Kobe is this the most overrated player of all time and somehow Wade and Lebron will win 10 titles and split all the MVP awards.

Did you really just say that? Did you not see him play in his prime? How can a guy who scored 81 in a game 60+ in 5+ games and about 30+ 50 point games be overrated? He's 3rd all time in most 40 point games behind wilt and MJ? Please explain why he's overrated? If anything hes underrated at this point because some of you don't even think he's a top 5 player anymore lmfao! He really should have 3-4 Mvps but the media is all hype aka Lebron and they don't like a bad image! And no way wade and Lebron win 10 championships... At most the cheats 3 will win 2-3 I just think wades age wilm hurt their chances In the future! Oh and u might as well retire from psd cuz I mean I hate Lebron but I'm not afraid to say that he will probably go down as the best or 2nd best sf ever! Ur just ignorant Kobe most overrated ever? Child please :facepalm:

BigCityofDreams
06-08-2011, 12:01 PM
Did you really just say that? Did you not see him play in his prime? How can a guy who scored 81 in a game 60+ in 5+ games and about 30+ 50 point games be overrated? He's 3rd all time in most 40 point games behind wilt and MJ? Please explain why he's overrated? If anything hes underrated at this point because some of you don't even think he's a top 5 player anymore lmfao! He really should have 3-4 Mvps but the media is all hype aka Lebron and they don't like a bad image! And no way wade and Lebron win 10 championships... At most the cheats 3 will win 2-3 I just think wades age wilm hurt their chances In the future! Oh and u might as well retire from psd cuz I mean I hate Lebron but I'm not afraid to say that he will probably go down as the set or 2nd best sf ever! Ur just ignorant Kobe most overrated ever? Child please :facepalm:

First off I apologize for the typo.

Second what team besides the Knicks and Yankees do I have under my name?

jockrider
06-08-2011, 12:07 PM
lol i knew pushing wade>kobe would make some of you guys like lebron more hahahaha.

ne3xchamps
06-08-2011, 12:08 PM
Lol, this is funny because most people figured it out. Some people, like this guy are struggling with the "simple" concept here.

My thread was "Wade top 3 SG ever?" Obviously MJ is one and Kobe is two. I don't think there's much debating that.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?

Wow man why aren't you doing stand up. funny guy.

Now back on topic, wade doesn't even sniff top 3. MAYBE when he's done, but not even close now.

ne3xchamps
06-08-2011, 12:11 PM
because Kobe is the most overrated player of all time and somehow Wade and Lebron will win 10 titles and split all the MVP awards.

:laugh2:

mlisica19
06-08-2011, 12:19 PM
They brought up a good point during the game. Would you put Wade in the top 3 SG's ever as of today?

I'm curious to hear people debate this. I don't think I've made up my mind yet. Sway me.


Top shooting guards

Allen Iverson
Pistol Pete
George Gervin
Jerry West
Clyde Drexler
T- Mac (9 peak prime years)
Vince Carter
Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Julius Erving

If it was not for injuries, there probably would be no discussion. He is playing BETTER Than his 2006 NBA MVP player wher ehe was the best in the league then. He looks seriously like the greatest in the game right now. Hes doing it ALL, on defense and offense

BigCityofDreams
06-08-2011, 12:20 PM
:laugh2:

It's funny but it's true somehow those 2 guys will split every MVP award and be the best players ever. Soon we'll compare everyone to them. "Is Jordan as good as Wade because Wade has 10 titles and is a multiple co MVP"

Lakerhead4ever
06-08-2011, 12:30 PM
some heat fans became really big headed ths past yr its funny. wade is no where near top 25 in history and thats a fact.

one day he will MAYBE get to top 15 but he has a lot of work to do. a lot.

lets face it, what he has done up till now, has been great but he hasnt done nothing too special as of yet other than finals mvp..and if im right he is getting up in age, his time is ticking

sventhedog
06-08-2011, 12:34 PM
a pretty tough question. but he is clearly miami's main man. with lebron and bosh his sidekicks. i think we have to lower our lebron expectations. he's the next scottie pippen, maybe he can live up to that. lol.

jockrider
06-08-2011, 12:35 PM
a pretty tough question. but he is clearly miami's main man. with lebron and bosh his sidekicks. i think we have to lower our lebron expectations. he's the next scottie pippen, maybe he can live up to that. lol.

scottie was better than kobe.

RaidersLakers24
06-08-2011, 12:37 PM
Wait what typo?

And idk but I think calling Kobe overrated is a little bit overboard

SportsFanatic10
06-08-2011, 12:41 PM
i think wade will get there by the time hes done.

ne3xchamps
06-08-2011, 12:41 PM
It's funny but it's true somehow those 2 guys will split every MVP award and be the best players ever. Soon we'll compare everyone to them. "Is Jordan as good as Wade because Wade has 10 titles and is a multiple co MVP"

see now I'm not sure if you are just ****ing with me or not. I laughed at the previous comment because I thought it had sarcasm written all over it. Which I will be under the assumption that this post here is another sarcastic one?:confused:

ne3xchamps
06-08-2011, 12:47 PM
scottie was better than kobe.

now this is funny.

jockrider
06-08-2011, 12:48 PM
now this is funny.

:Djust wait for the reactions.

85BearsDefense
06-08-2011, 12:56 PM
I'd take Wade over West 10 out of 10 times.

come on now... what do you have to base that statement off of. West was a stud...

Career wise West averaged more points more rebounds and more assists per game, less turnovers, put up ridiculous playoff numbers far better than Wade has ever put up in the playoffs.

West has the clear cut edge

85BearsDefense
06-08-2011, 12:58 PM
People calling Wade better than Kobe are crazy, just look at the stats, the rings, the awards, Kobe is so far ahead of wade its crazy

Lo Porto
06-08-2011, 01:00 PM
Wade didn't look like the #3 SG of all time when he missed that key FT or when he fumbled the ball towards the backcourt in the most important situation in the game. Just saying...

KingPosey
06-08-2011, 01:01 PM
They brought up a good point during the game. Would you put Wade in the top 3 SG's ever as of today?

I'm curious to hear people debate this. I don't think I've made up my mind yet. Sway me.


Top shooting guards

Allen Iverson
Pistol Pete
George Gervin
Jerry West
Clyde Drexler
T- Mac (9 peak prime years)
Vince Carter
Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Julius Erving
You are asking if he is in the list of all time SGs and the list has these guys on it?

Wow..... Did you forget any shooting guards that are better than these bolded names and its not even close?

Maybe Kobe, for one, and Mitch Richmond comes to mind, oh and maybe MJ?! Or in your mind is it MJ, Kobe, and then everyone else?

GiantsSwaGG
06-08-2011, 01:05 PM
:Djust wait for the reactions.

Jared Jeffries is better then Kobe...Just wait for the reactions:)

MR.TRIPDUB
06-08-2011, 01:05 PM
Drexler is really being underrated here. Longevity is the key when comparing all time players. Had tmac been healthier we would be talking of wade as a possible top 4 or 5. Grant hill be at least top 5 sf. Bill walton will be top 5. Get what im sayin? 7 good years wont do it.

Mj
Kobe
West
Drexler
Gervin/allen/miller/dumars
Ai/tmac/carter/moncrief

Sadds The Gr8
06-08-2011, 01:09 PM
When wade's career is over he will be ahead of kobe.

:facepalm:

BigCityofDreams
06-08-2011, 01:13 PM
see now I'm not sure if you are just ****ing with me or not. I laughed at the previous comment because I thought it had sarcasm written all over it. Which I will be under the assumption that this post here is another sarcastic one?:confused:

You are correct sir

jockrider
06-08-2011, 01:19 PM
Jared Jeffries is better then Kobe...Just wait for the reactions:)

:laugh2: by a mile.

BigCityofDreams
06-08-2011, 01:21 PM
Wait what typo?

And idk but I think calling Kobe overrated is a little bit overboard

It's not overboard because Kobe hasn't accomplished anything all his achievements are hollow. How many great players have 9 1st all defensive teams? How many great players have 5 rings and 2 MVP finals? How many great players go to 13 All-Star games? See what I mean all hollow achievements.

Lakerhead4ever
06-08-2011, 01:56 PM
It's not overboard because Kobe hasn't accomplished anything all his achievements are hollow. How many great players have 9 1st all defensive teams? How many great players have 5 rings and 2 MVP finals? How many great players go to 13 All-Star games? See what I mean all hollow achievements.

u sound like a hater bro. u really do

if u think kobe is overrated, ur basketball IQ sucks. period.

those accomplishments are few and theres MANY more u missed. and wades accomplishments are nowhere near kobe but wade not overrated rite?

wowzers

jockrider
06-08-2011, 01:58 PM
u sound like a hater bro. u really do

if u think kobe is overrated, ur basketball IQ sucks. period.

those accomplishments are few and theres MANY more u missed. and wades accomplishments are nowhere near kobe but wade not overrated rite?

wowzers

he's right.

naps
06-08-2011, 02:07 PM
Kobe did better than Wade did when he didn't have anyone too in those years. He should've been MVP one time, instead the league screwed him of it and gave it to Nash. During that span he had the 81 point game, and outscored the MAVS by himself through 3 quarters! He had LA up 3-1 in a series vs the #2 Suns by hitting two buzzer beaters in one game! Wade won 1 playoff game in that span. He also, got em back again the next year and own 2 games by himself. And the supporting cast during those years may have been the worst in history! PG-Smush Parker (WHO?) SF- Luke Walton (REALLY) PF-Odom (That's ok) C- Kwame Brown (Worst #1 pick ever)

Oh wait! Wade was injured for 2 years. The only year he was healthy he posted one of the greatest statistical years of any shooting guards (2008-2009). He took his young team in the ECF semifinal as a rookie, lost in the ECF in game 7 (injured in crucial game 6 i guess) in his 2nd year, won it all in his 3rd year, then he was injured for 2 years, then he was back with that monster even after playing with bunch of D-leaguers and now he is on the way to lead his team to win the championship when he has a relevant team again. Wade is a monster. Plain and simple. He's not a ballhog and doesn't chuck shots after shots. Averaging 27.2 shot attempts in modern basketball is absurd.

BigCityofDreams
06-08-2011, 02:16 PM
u sound like a hater bro. u really do

if u think kobe is overrated, ur basketball IQ sucks. period.

those accomplishments are few and theres MANY more u missed. and wades accomplishments are nowhere near kobe but wade not overrated rite?

wowzers

you don't get it do you

The Final Boss
06-08-2011, 02:17 PM
I think he will be when his career is over, but thus far, I gotta go with Logo over him as well. I will say this, his 08-09 season was the 2nd best season ever by a sg. MJ obviously had a few such seasons that were as good and better.

Failure. Bryant had multiple seasons that would wipe their *** with Wade's best season. Kinda easy to look great with inflated numbers due to a scrub *** team and getting bail out FTs.

Bryant, West, Baylor, Drexler, Miller, Jordan, Gervin, etc.

jockrider
06-08-2011, 02:22 PM
Failure. Bryant had multiple seasons that would wipe their *** with Wade's best season. Kinda easy to look great with inflated numbers due to a scrub *** team and getting bail out FTs.

Bryant, West, Baylor, Drexler, Miller, Jordan, Gervin, etc.

bryants best season was on a scrub *** team.