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RangersMets
06-05-2011, 12:47 PM
Impending Group II free agent Brandon Dubinsky is seeking a multi-year deal at $4.5 million a year, we're told. But not only isn't he going to get it from Sather, his case became much, much weaker when Buffalo winger Drew Stafford -- whose numbers form a direct comparable -- re-upped a couple of days ago for four years at $4 million per.

- http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz1OOTvMMXp

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RangersMets
06-05-2011, 12:48 PM
So if his first asking price is 4.5, then he should realistically be expecting to get around $4M, which I may consider doing if it was a 7-8 year deal, but honestly I would MUCH rather have him at like 13-14M for 4 years.

jetsfan89
06-05-2011, 12:52 PM
4.5 is not going to happen. Sather can easily point to Stafford's contract as to why 4.5 won't happen.

RangersMets
06-05-2011, 01:08 PM
4.5 is not going to happen. Sather can easily point to Stafford's contract as to why 4.5 won't happen.

His asking price had to start somewhere, might as well be nonsensically high I guess...

Redfish
06-05-2011, 01:46 PM
I'm confused: would any of us trade Dubinsky for Stafford, straight up?

I know conventional wisdom is Stafford's contract sets the ceiling for Dubinsky; I am of the view it sets the floor.

I would not trade Dubinsky for Stafford, straight up, and I happen to believe Dubinsky projects to be a much more effective player in upcoming seasons, than Stafford.

There isn't much difference in the scoring stats, other than it has taken Stafford 5 years to play a comparable amount of games and score a comparable amount of points, as what Dubinsky has done in 3 years. Dubinsky also plays a more physical game with special teams contributions that I do not believe is matched by Stafford.

I'd love to hear views on whether folks would trade Dubinsky straight up for Stafford but, if I were Sather, I'd work with this reasonable starting point of negotiation and get this done cleanly, unlike the last negotiation with Dubinsky.

RangersMets
06-05-2011, 02:26 PM
I'm confused: would any of us trade Dubinsky for Stafford, straight up?

I know conventional wisdom is Stafford's contract sets the ceiling for Dubinsky; I am of the view it sets the floor.

I would not trade Dubinsky for Stafford, straight up, and I happen to believe Dubinsky projects to be a much more effective player in upcoming seasons, than Stafford.

There isn't much difference in the scoring stats, other than it has taken Stafford 5 years to play a comparable amount of games and score a comparable amount of points, as what Dubinsky has done in 3 years. Dubinsky also plays a more physical game with special teams contributions that I do not believe is matched by Stafford.

I'd love to hear views on whether folks would trade Dubinsky straight up for Stafford but, if I were Sather, I'd work with this reasonable starting point of negotiation and get this done cleanly, unlike the last negotiation with Dubinsky.

Stafford is a very good PK and plays the PP consistently.

Redfish
06-05-2011, 03:56 PM
Stafford is a very good PK and plays the PP consistently.

Thanks, I wasn't sure, other than I saw 11 out of his 31 goals this past season were on the power play. So, in most respects, the two players are quite even. Putting aside I still believe Dubinsky projects as a better player in upcoming seasons, the Stafford contract from a notoriously stingy organization (not necessarily a bad thing) tells me $4.00mm may be about right, but definitely not the ceiling.

Would you trade Dubinsky for Stafford, straight up?

Rangers in 7
06-05-2011, 04:04 PM
Thanks, I wasn't sure, other than I saw 11 out of his 31 goals this past season were on the power play. So, in most respects, the two players are quite even. Putting aside I still believe Dubinsky projects as a better player in upcoming seasons, the Stafford contract from a notoriously stingy organization (not necessarily a bad thing) tells me $4.00mm may be about right, but definitely not the ceiling.

Would you trade Dubinsky for Stafford, straight up?

i would have to consider it if hes asking for 4.5, there is no way he is worth that type of money.....his head is way to big and i would definitely consider trading his rights for a first round pick

nyr1980
06-05-2011, 04:07 PM
Thanks, I wasn't sure, other than I saw 11 out of his 31 goals this past season were on the power play. So, in most respects, the two players are quite even. Putting aside I still believe Dubinsky projects as a better player in upcoming seasons, the Stafford contract from a notoriously stingy organization (not necessarily a bad thing) tells me $4.00mm may be about right, but definitely not the ceiling.

Would you trade Dubinsky for Stafford, straight up?

Probably not. Though they are similar players, with nearly identical stats and are only six months apart in age (Dubinsky being the younger), I don't like the idea of dealing a core guy with Dubinsky's grit and leadership potential.

nyr1980
06-05-2011, 04:11 PM
Dubinsky and his agent- who I believe is Bobby Orr or at least with Orr's agency are doing what they do: high-balling it. This is no surprise. He goes high and Slats goes low. He probably gets in the 3.25 to 4 mil range, and Callahan winds up in the 3-3.75 range.

jetsfan89
06-05-2011, 04:24 PM
i would have to consider it if hes asking for 4.5, there is no way he is worth that type of money.....his head is way to big and i would definitely consider trading his rights for a first round pick

i would never do that. dubinsky is captain material, capable of getting 50+ points, physical and sticks up for his teammates, and he plays the PK and the PP. perfect second line player imo.

RangersMets
06-05-2011, 05:25 PM
Dubi will get some money because this time around he is arbitration eligible. I would not even consider giving Dubi 4.5M for just, say, 4 years because we have him has a RFA for the next two years - meaning we'd be buying only 2 years of UFA years.

However, if he came to us with wanting 4.5M per year at like 7 years, I would have to consider it because then we are buying 5 years of his UFA time and throughout his prime.

In the end, I would like to get Dubi at around a similar contract to Staals'.

Rangers in 7
06-05-2011, 11:15 PM
i would never do that. dubinsky is captain material, capable of getting 50+ points, physical and sticks up for his teammates, and he plays the PK and the PP. perfect second line player imo.

callahan is the future captain, steps is a future assistant, staal is already one....dubinskys ego is too big at times and he is invisible for games at a time.....id trade him for a top 5 pick with another prospect

commonsense12
06-06-2011, 11:34 AM
This is ridiculous and to be honest Dubi said the same thing last time. If i was sather i would drag out his negotation process as long as possible and make him sweat.

I also dont see the comparison to Stafford:
Dubi 24 goals 30 assists in 77 games
Staff 31 goals 21 assists in 62 games

So more goals and the same amount of points in 15 less games. How is that an equal comparison? I do a Dubi for Stafford trade all day long with those contract demands.

Redfish
06-06-2011, 11:50 AM
This is ridiculous and to be honest Dubi said the same thing last time. If i was sather i would drag out his negotation process as long as possible and make him sweat.

I also dont see the comparison to Stafford:
Dubi 24 goals 30 assists in 77 games
Staff 31 goals 21 assists in 62 games

So more goals and the same amount of points in 15 less games. How is that an equal comparison? I do a Dubi for Stafford trade all day long with those contract demands.

Career Stats:

Dubi 71 goals / 108 assist / 179 points over 316 games = .57 ppg
Stafford 94 goals / 102 assists / 196 points over 317 games = .62ppg

Those appear to be very comparable stats, for what that is worth.

I just wouldn't trade Dubinsky for Stafford straight up. I think there is good value to the physical game he brings to the ice each night, and what that means to the rest of team; and I also believe Stafford is closer to his peak performance level than Dubinsky, who for the first time in his career last year was able to play nearly an entire season at his natural left wing position. Again, it's just stats but:

Dubi 141 hits / 31 blocked shots / 100 PIMs
Stafford 53 hits / 5 blocked shots / 34 PIMs

All things considered, I simply think $4mm is good value for Dubinsky at this point in his career development.

nyr1980
06-06-2011, 12:17 PM
I like Dubinsky and what he brings as much as the next guy, and I think that he is an important piece of this team moving forward. But $4.5 mil per year is too much, and he and his camp know this. It's a negotiating tactic, that's all.

commonsense12
06-06-2011, 12:19 PM
Career Stats:

Dubi 71 goals / 108 assist / 179 points over 316 games = .57 ppg
Stafford 94 goals / 102 assists / 196 points over 317 games = .62ppg

Those appear to be very comparable stats, for what that is worth.

I just wouldn't trade Dubinsky for Stafford straight up. I think there is good value to the physical game he brings to the ice each night, and what that means to the rest of team; and I also believe Stafford is closer to his peak performance level than Dubinsky, who for the first time in his career last year was able to play nearly an entire season at his natural left wing position. Again, it's just stats but:

Dubi 141 hits / 31 blocked shots / 100 PIMs
Stafford 53 hits / 5 blocked shots / 34 PIMs

All things considered, I simply think $4mm is good value for Dubinsky at this point in his career development.

Stafford has a higher ceiling skill wise. Dubi has also received much more ice time over his career which has prob allowed him to ramp up faster. How do you think he is at his peak and Dubi isnt with more ice time? Plus 23 goals is huge. We need more scoring and if you divide their game totals by 4 season you will see Stafford averages 6 goals more per season. Now if he had more ice time because i think Dubi averaged 4 more monutes a game last season it could be much much more.

Also blocked shots mean nothing to me. The islanders led the league in blocked shots would you want their team instead of ours? Vancouver was 25th, which would you rather have? Fact is blocked shots come from the opponent being in your zone more and we dont have the skill level to get it out of our zone.

Hits could mean something if they were big time hits. How many people has Dubi laid out? I cant think of any to be honest. Hits are important but no so important. Same with Penalty Mins. What kind of penalties were they? Did they lead to opponents goals?

Either way I still take Stafford any day of Dubi if the contracts were the same.

commonsense12
06-06-2011, 12:21 PM
Whats funny about this is i remember reading an article in which it stated Dubi wants to get a contract done fast. Guess that was complete crap with these demands. This is prob going to drag out until he significantly lowers his demands.

bsi
06-06-2011, 12:37 PM
Stafford has a higher ceiling skill wise. Dubi has also received much more ice time over his career which has prob allowed him to ramp up faster. How do you think he is at his peak and Dubi isnt with more ice time? Plus 23 goals is huge. We need more scoring and if you divide their game totals by 4 season you will see Stafford averages 6 goals more per season. Now if he had more ice time because i think Dubi averaged 4 more monutes a game last season it could be much much more.

Also blocked shots mean nothing to me. The islanders led the league in blocked shots would you want their team instead of ours? Vancouver was 25th, which would you rather have? Fact is blocked shots come from the opponent being in your zone more and we dont have the skill level to get it out of our zone.

Hits could mean something if they were big time hits. How many people has Dubi laid out? I cant think of any to be honest. Hits are important but no so important. Same with Penalty Mins. What kind of penalties were they? Did they lead to opponents goals?

Either way I still take Stafford any day of Dubi if the contracts were the same.

You don't have to lay someone out to separate them from the puck, I'd personally rather someone who was effective at hitting to get the puck than someone out there just to head hunt, that type of player ends up hurt or suspended more than he plays. Also, Stafford gets just as much 5 on 5 and PP time as anyone on our team. He may not be used as much on the PK but to me that's a negative on him and it also means that Dubinsky's minutes are less than Staffords given that out of his 20 mins a night he spends about 4 of that on the PK.

bsi
06-06-2011, 12:38 PM
I like Dubinsky and what he brings as much as the next guy, and I think that he is an important piece of this team moving forward. But $4.5 mil per year is too much, and he and his camp know this. It's a negotiating tactic, that's all.

I agree, he'll settle in at about 3.8 IMO.

commonsense12
06-06-2011, 12:42 PM
You don't have to lay someone out to separate them from the puck, I'd personally rather someone who was effective at hitting to get the puck than someone out there just to head hunt, that type of player ends up hurt or suspended more than he plays. Also, Stafford gets just as much 5 on 5 and PP time as anyone on our team. He may not be used as much on the PK but to me that's a negative on him and it also means that Dubinsky's minutes are less than Staffords given that out of his 20 mins a night he spends about 4 of that on the PK.

The reason Dubi gets so much time is that we are a team that cant score. I am also not saying i want a head hunter but i want someone who when he checks someone they feel it. Mosquito bites just dont cut it for me. Dubi is also one of those players who misses a few games in the last 2 yrs because of injury. Stafford is prob wheat we needed last year in terms of PP guys. The man scores PP goals which we do not on a regular basis.

I guess we will agree to disagree.