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View Full Version : Now that Rubio's signed, can the Cavs get Williams and Irving?



NYSpirit1
06-02-2011, 01:27 AM
After the news of Rubio signing with the Timberwolves and the Cavaliers making an effort to get the 2nd pick, does this mean that the Cavaliers can realistically get Kyrie Irving and Derrick Williams?

[Cavaliers trying to get 2nd pick article here: http://minnesota.sbnation.com/minnesota-timberwolves/2011/5/31/2198444/nba-trade-rumors-wolves-cavs-pistons]

It's obvious the Timberwolves will not pick Irving with the 2nd pick in the draft. They have Rubio, Flynn, and Ridnour, three good to potentially very good point guards.

That leaves the Jazz, who would probably pick Irving with the 3rd pick. That's really the only roadblock to the Cavaliers plan. But they need to take Derrick Williams first to make this possible, because otherwise, the T-Wolves would take him 2nd.

I could see the Cavaliers making a major push for the 2nd pick now that there is really no player out there that's worth to take for the Timberwolves. They need veterans, not more young players to go along with a very young nucleus in Kevin Love, Beasley, Johnson, Flynn and Rubio.

Having Williams and Irving would be the ultimate reboot for the Cavaliers franchise. Both players have major All-Star potential and both are no. 1 pick worthy. For them to start a new Cavs legacy together would be great for Cleveland and a great storyline vs. the Heat.

Arch Stanton
06-02-2011, 01:42 AM
Sessions actually plays for the Cavs not the Wolves. And I don't think this trade will happen unless the Cavs offer more to Detroit other than just the trade exception. I think ESPN blew up this rumor over the weekend because there weren't any games and LeBron and the Heat are in the finals. I'm not saying it won't happen but I think it's just a rumor at this point.

TheHighLife
06-02-2011, 01:46 AM
Theres no way they can get both. I don't see why the Wolves wouldn't draft Williams. Their line up can be. Rubio, ?, Beasly, Williams, Love.

dhopisthename
06-02-2011, 01:46 AM
you can remove that probably from the jazz the taking irving if he is there no way they don't take them. personally I just don't see how the cavs have the assets to get the second pick.

dhopisthename
06-02-2011, 01:47 AM
Theres no way they can get both. I don't see why the Wolves wouldn't draft Williams. Their line up can be. Rubio, ?, Beasly, Williams, Love.

lol that team would give up 150 points a night

iggypop123
06-02-2011, 01:50 AM
not unless the wolves offer more to the pistons to entice them to give them the draft pick.

Arch Stanton
06-02-2011, 01:53 AM
you can remove that probably from the jazz the taking irving if he is there no way they don't take them. personally I just don't see how the cavs have the assets to get the second pick.

They could offer more to Detroit (maybe JJ Hickson and the Trade Exception) for the number 8th pick. Then complete the trade with Minny.
They also have Jamison's expiring contract, Varejao, and possibly even Boobie Gibson, or Ramon Sessions. Plus they have picks in 2012 they could give up. I don't see them giving up a whole lot more for a pick in a weaker draft class. But they have some assets.

beasted86
06-02-2011, 01:53 AM
It's obvious the Timberwolves will not pick Irving with the 2nd pick in the draft. They have Rubio, Flynn, and Ridnour, three good to potentially very good point guards.

That leaves the Jazz, who would probably pick Irving with the 3rd pick. That's really the only roadblock to the Cavaliers plan. But they need to take Derrick Williams first to make this possible, because otherwise, the T-Wolves would take him 2nd.

That's where you are wrong.

Since Irving is the most talented and sought after player in the draft, if Cavs don't pick him, they will... then they will trade him and get far more in return.

melbnutz
06-02-2011, 01:54 AM
rubio signing doesnt affect that potential trade at all i dont see the value of trading down in a 2 player draft. plus if the cavs take williams #1, then multiple teams(including the heat) will call minnesota trying to get irving. so minnesota is not trading to cleveland. more likely our #2 pick will be going to be part of a deal to aquire someone like granger, ellis, iggy.

x21x NiNJA x21x
06-02-2011, 01:55 AM
Do you think anyone can trade up to get in the picture??

melbnutz
06-02-2011, 01:56 AM
i could see thye heat moving bosh to aquire irving

beasted86
06-02-2011, 01:56 AM
i could see thye heat moving bosh to aquire irving

:facepalm:

DeyAce
06-02-2011, 02:00 AM
1. Cavs - Irving
2. T-Wolves - Williams
3. Jazz - Knight
4. Cavs - Kantar

That's how it'll go

Arch Stanton
06-02-2011, 02:01 AM
rubio signing doesnt affect that potential trade at all i dont see the value of trading down in a 2 player draft. plus if the cavs take williams #1, then multiple teams(including the heat) will call minnesota trying to get irving. so minnesota is not trading to cleveland. more likely our #2 pick will be going to be part of a deal to aquire someone like granger, ellis, iggy.

I don't think the Heat have any intentions of going after Irving if he falls past 1. They have nothing to offer other teams besides late first round picks and second round picks.

Arch Stanton
06-02-2011, 02:04 AM
1. Cavs - Irving
2. T-Wolves - Williams
3. Jazz - Knight
4. Cavs - Kantar

That's how it'll go

I'm not so sure the Wolves or Jazz wouldn't take Kanter. He may be the next Michael Jordan of Turkey since Hedo twirled into nothingness since '09.

dhopisthename
06-02-2011, 02:05 AM
They could offer more to Detroit (maybe JJ Hickson and the Trade Exception) for the number 8th pick. Then complete the trade with Minny.
They also have Jamison's expiring contract, Varejao, and possibly even Boobie Gibson, or Ramon Sessions. Plus they have picks in 2012 they could give up. I don't see them giving up a whole lot more for a pick in a weaker draft class. But they have some assets.

they have JJ hickson and that is about it. I am sure he and the #4 pick could entice the timberwolves but doubt the cavs would do that and I think every pick for next year would be untouchable.

DeyAce
06-02-2011, 02:05 AM
I agree. The Jazz may take Kantar. Dude is a stud.

Purple&Gold24
06-02-2011, 02:06 AM
:shrug:

Arch Stanton
06-02-2011, 02:11 AM
they have JJ hickson and that is about it. I am sure he and the #4 pick could entice the timberwolves but doubt the cavs would do that and I think every pick for next year would be untouchable.

Maybe for that deal to happen Hickson is the most enticing option for Detroit. But they have multiple draft picks over the next few years which also could be used as leverage.
The other assets I mentioned weren't necessarily pertaining to that specific trade. But expiring contracts like Jamison is considered an asset. Also if they do draft Irving, sessions could be used as trade bait (another asset). There are a handful of teams that were hot for him this past year.
Varejao also... I'm sure some contending team would have interest. A lot of teams were interested in trading for him this past year before he got injured.
So yeah they could potentially make a lot of moves this season.

phantasyyy
06-02-2011, 02:22 AM
everybody saying that jj hickson would be a good option clearly hasny looked at the detroit frontcourt line-up...daye, maxiell, jerebko, monroe, charlie V, wilcox they clearly have enough PF's

Spiggity_ace
06-02-2011, 02:24 AM
everybody saying that jj hickson would be a good option clearly hasny looked at the detroit frontcourt line-up...daye, maxiell, jerebko, monroe, charlie V, wilcox they clearly have enough PF's

well daye is a sf, maxiell doesnt even get to play anymore, wilcox is a wildcard, jerebko is also a sf, and monroe should be the starter, and putting hickson next to monroe would be a dream come true for me, id trade the number 8 for him and send villanueva or some of the other players to minnesota

phantasyyy
06-02-2011, 02:28 AM
jerebko has bulked up and will play that PF position next year and i dont think it will be that easy to trade villaneuva's terrible contract w/o giving up some sort of value

Arch Stanton
06-02-2011, 02:30 AM
everybody saying that jj hickson would be a good option clearly hasny looked at the detroit frontcourt line-up...daye, maxiell, jerebko, monroe, charlie V, wilcox they clearly have enough PF's

So what's Detroits #1 need, besides shedding crappy contracts like Charlie V., Ben Gordon, and Hamilton?

Arch Stanton
06-02-2011, 02:34 AM
jerebko has bulked up and will play that PF position next year and i dont think it will be that easy to trade villaneuva's terrible contract w/o giving up some sort of value

Yeah and I don't see the Cavs taking on Charlie V.'s contract seeing that Ryan Hollins is on his death list.

LA_Raiders
06-02-2011, 02:55 AM
I hope the cavs get irving & williams. varejao & 4th pick and/or future picks should do it for either Wolves or jazz.

Fresno
06-02-2011, 03:22 AM
So what's Detroits #1 need, besides shedding crappy contracts like Charlie V., Ben Gordon, and Hamilton?

Detroit needs an immediate impact player.

Unfortunately there isnt 1 to be found at the #8 pick.

Instead what they need to do is move those bad contracts elsewhere and if Cleveland is willing to take just 1 of them off their hands, they need to do it.

They will be cleaning house during the season as they are planning on going for a rebranding job for the 2012-2013 season with new colors, a new logo, and new uniforms.

Fresno
06-02-2011, 03:24 AM
I agree. The Jazz may take Kantar. Dude is a stud.

Its Enes Kanter.

Jazz are going to take Jan Vesely. Kanter serves no purpose as a backup going forward unless the Jazz can swing deals to move Millsap and Jefferson.

What sense does it make to have the #3 pick in 2 consecutive drafts coming off the bench?

hgtiger32
06-02-2011, 03:49 AM
Theres no way they can get both. I don't see why the Wolves wouldn't draft Williams. Their line up can be. Rubio, ?, Beasly, Williams, Love.

thats one small lineup

WSU Tony
06-02-2011, 11:58 AM
I would be thrilled if the best player fell to the Wolves at #2. Thrilled. We'd draft him in a heartbeat and laugh as we trade him for more value than you can get for Williams.

I would also be fine with Rubio/Irving splitting minutes down the middle at point. Rubio is a high risk high reward player which means he could bust. A backup plan would be nice....

VikesTwinsWolve
06-02-2011, 12:13 PM
It's commical how fans think the Wolves will trade off there pick due to team player needs lol. We are not looking for more draft picks down the road. Kahn needs to start improving right now to keep his job. Thats why he is shopping for the right veteran leader. We don't want garbage players or future draft picks just to move down in this 2 player draft. Hang the bait out there to see what is available. If nothing goes down I'm very happy with either Irving or Williams as a Wolve. We won't be a playoff contender, but very fun to watch and grow on. Should sell some tickets!!!!

king4day
06-02-2011, 12:19 PM
Minny has to take either Williams or Canter. Now that they have Rubio, they don't need a PG anymore. So it would make no sense to trade to the 4th pick and take Knight.

Kanter might make more sense for them since Beasly and Williams have similar games.

znick21
06-02-2011, 12:35 PM
Yeah and I don't see the Cavs taking on Charlie V.'s contract seeing that Ryan Hollins is on his death list.

i highly doubt the cavs go into trade talks saying "i hope ryan hollins will be happy with this"

WSU Tony
06-02-2011, 12:37 PM
Minny has to take either Williams or Canter. Now that they have Rubio, they don't need a PG anymore. So it would make no sense to trade to the 4th pick and take Knight.

Kanter might make more sense for them since Beasly and Williams have similar games.

BPA > drafting for need.

Every time you are in the top 10 picks. It would make no sense what-so-ever to take Kanter #2. (Kanter, with a K)

sep11ie
06-02-2011, 12:39 PM
i could see thye heat moving bosh to aquire irving


:facepalm:

I could see Beas maybe ending up on the Cavs.

Arch Stanton
06-02-2011, 01:04 PM
i highly doubt the cavs go into trade talks saying "i hope ryan hollins will be happy with this"

Yeah I was joking. Plus if we traded for Charlie V. I'm sure we'd be looking to buy him out and obtain draft picks.

Arch Stanton
06-02-2011, 01:06 PM
:facepalm:

I could see Beas maybe ending up on the Cavs.

Do u mean Beasley? Then no thanks.

sep11ie
06-02-2011, 01:12 PM
Do u mean Beasley? Then no thanks.


No, I meant Tony Parker.

Arch Stanton
06-02-2011, 01:25 PM
No, I meant Tony Parker.

Oh okay. Throw in T-Mac and Josh Boone and Ill make sure we give up all our draft picks over the next ten years.

smith&wesson
06-02-2011, 01:45 PM
it is possile they get both. but chancer are that they wont.

i just want knight to fall to the 5th pick.

DR_1
06-02-2011, 02:20 PM
I think the Cavs will have to make a trade to get both. For them, the roadblock is Utah, who will assuredly take the PG available. I Think the T-Wolves will draft Kanter if they keep the pick - they need a center more than an upgrade to Beasley.

It could go:

1-Irving
2-Kanter
3-Knight
4-Williams

Unless of course a trade occurs.

DR_1
06-02-2011, 02:21 PM
it is possile they get both. but chancer are that they wont.

i just want knight to fall to the 5th pick.

Not gonna happen. Utah loves him.

Hawkeye15
06-02-2011, 02:59 PM
Adding Rubio is essentially adding a lottery pick, so the only way the Wolves trade the #2 pick, imo, is for a veteran who is in their mid 20's or so, who could step in and start right away as one of their top 2 players.

Its more likely the Wolves will draft Williams, and then roll the dice over the summer or next season before the trade deadline, when they may get better offers. Its also more likely that Minny will hold on to Williams and their assets until the new CBA is reached. If its forcing teams to make tough choices on coming down on payroll, the Wolves would be in a position similar to Boston a few years ago to grab a star from a team either being forced financially, or a team with a bloated payroll stuck in neutral that needs to trade their star (see Wolves and Sonics).

mjt20mik
06-02-2011, 03:09 PM
Bargnani + 5th to Minny for 2nd and fillers.

EDIT: by fillers I mean Flynn :D

:)

Hawkeye15
06-02-2011, 03:10 PM
Bargnani + 5th to Minny for 2nd and fillers.

:)

I don't want to watch a, "Who is the bigger vagina" contest every night between Darko and Bargs. No thanks

nothappyinut
06-02-2011, 03:32 PM
Everyone is smoking crack if you think the jazz are drafting kanter or vesely. Jazz would draft williams or Irving if he is there if neither are there which I think one will be then the jazz will take knight.

WolvesJagsOs
06-02-2011, 03:34 PM
I don't want to watch a, "Who is the bigger vagina" contest every night between Darko and Bargs. No thanks

haha. Great post. Totally agree.

GeekInThePink
06-02-2011, 03:39 PM
I don't want to watch a, "Who is the bigger vagina" contest every night between Darko and Bargs. No thanks

Weird a mod posted this.

Stuckey#3
06-02-2011, 03:40 PM
So what's Detroits #1 need, besides shedding crappy contracts like Charlie V., Ben Gordon, and Hamilton?

We have a lot of guys who can play PF... but none are worth a damn besides Monroe and Jerebko.

Most Detroit fans think our biggest need is a true PG; I think we are good on guards with Stuck, Gordon, Bynum and White.

Our biggest need is to trade Rip; sign and trade Prince for value... preferably a PF that can play with his back to the basket and a SF that can score.

WHODAT8o8
06-02-2011, 03:41 PM
I don't think the Heat have any intentions of going after Irving if he falls past 1. They have nothing to offer other teams besides late first round picks and second round picks.

I thought they traded all of those away in the SnT

Arch Stanton
06-02-2011, 04:51 PM
I thought they traded all of those away in the SnT

Yeah so they have second round picks!

Hawkeye15
06-02-2011, 05:01 PM
Weird a mod posted this.

I am a Wolves fan, and the Raps posters are my friends. Nothing stirring up here...

PhillyFaninLA
06-02-2011, 05:10 PM
Ricky Rubio is a victim of hype...I never bought into him and I don't know....this is the first time I looked up his stat, they don't prove me wrong.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=LFW

WolvesJagsOs
06-02-2011, 05:14 PM
Ricky Rubio is a victim of hype...I never bought into him and I don't know....this is the first time I looked up his stat, they don't prove me wrong.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=LFW

Like many people have said, dont look at stats when it comes to the euro game, you have to watch the kid play. Im seriously sick of saying this, because alot of people on here say the same exact thing.

PhillyFaninLA
06-02-2011, 05:29 PM
Like many people have said, dont look at stats when it comes to the euro game, you have to watch the kid play. Im seriously sick of saying this, because alot of people on here say the same exact thing.


If you read what you quoted then you would see where you mistake is.


I said this is the first time I looked at his stats....I also said I never bought his hype.

See I had an opinion of him before I ever looked at his stats....but I did have a post of what 20 total words maybe so you did have like 3 total ideas and a handful of words to think about thats just to much for some people. Especially when you want to make assumptions and not respect others rights to there opinions.

WolvesJagsOs
06-02-2011, 05:37 PM
If you read what you quoted then you would see where you mistake is.


I said this is the first time I looked at his stats....I also said I never bought his hype.

See I had an opinion of him before I ever looked at his stats....but I did have a post of what 20 total words maybe so you did have like 3 total ideas and a handful of words to think about thats just to much for some people. Especially when you want to make assumptions and not respect others rights to there opinions.

lol dude. My bad on the whole you never believed the hype of him. But alot of people know to not buy the stats in europe about players. When guys like Kobe start talking highly of someone, you know that he obviously see's something in Rubio that he thinks he will be good. You have to watch him play in europe, he has amazing court vision and passing ability, hence why there are comparisons to Nash and Kidd. He isnt gonna be a scorer, but he will work on his shot im sure with NBA coaches over here and get it to be respectable. Also, some stats over in europe count differently also. I never said i didnt respect your opinion either dude. I said that no1 should judge players by european stats, and im not just talking to you about it, im telling everyone that reads the posts on threads.

PhillyFaninLA
06-02-2011, 05:45 PM
lol dude. My bad on the whole you never believed the hype of him. But alot of people know to not buy the stats in europe about players. When guys like Kobe start talking highly of someone, you know that he obviously see's something in Rubio that he thinks he will be good. You have to watch him play in europe, he has amazing court vision and passing ability, hence why there are comparisons to Nash and Kidd. He isnt gonna be a scorer, but he will work on his shot im sure with NBA coaches over here and get it to be respectable. Also, some stats over in europe count differently also. I never said i didnt respect your opinion either dude. I said that no1 should judge players by european stats, and im not just talking to you about it, im telling everyone that reads the posts on threads.


Its cool....read my sig....I put that there because I can sometimes sound harsher than I mean. So if I did my bad.

WolvesJagsOs
06-02-2011, 05:53 PM
^Nah dude its cool. Just stating my opinion on stuff...

iliketurtles24
06-02-2011, 06:02 PM
Weird a mod posted this.

well its true

KnicksR4Real
06-02-2011, 06:10 PM
:facepalm:

:facepalm:

KnicksR4Real
06-02-2011, 06:11 PM
[QUOTE=iliketurtles24;18106075]well its true[/QUi
what?

MSG34
06-02-2011, 06:28 PM
Never doubt that Kahn will take a PG.

AllBall
06-02-2011, 06:33 PM
http://nbaoffseason.com/photo/1280/1017904995/1/tumblr_l7sm0eEjzl1qzb7vj

We could groom him into a nice PG. ;) Euro shorts gotta go.

kikeyanez
06-02-2011, 07:10 PM
THE TIMBERWOVLES ARE ONE BIG TRADE AWAY FROM MAKING THE PLAYOFFS NEXT YEAR... im happy to see rubio sign with the t-wovles

rtcrules
06-02-2011, 07:59 PM
THE TIMBERWOVLES ARE ONE BIG TRADE AWAY FROM MAKING THE PLAYOFFS NEXT YEAR... im happy to see rubio sign with the t-wovles

The Cavs are a FA away from being the top seed so don't get to excited.