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View Full Version : Skip Bayless: Top 5 PGs of All Time



JordansBulls
05-31-2011, 01:48 PM
1. Magic
2. JKidd
3. Steve Nash
4. Oscar Robertson
5. John Stockton

Hawkeye15
05-31-2011, 01:49 PM
I am starting to dislike Bayless more and more.

Cano4prez
05-31-2011, 01:49 PM
:laugh2:

SteBO
05-31-2011, 01:50 PM
I am starting to dislike Bayless more and more.

Who'd he leave out that has you miffed, Hawk?

Baller1
05-31-2011, 01:51 PM
No Gary Payton, no respect for the list.

Chronz
05-31-2011, 01:51 PM
Someone justify the logic of putting Kidd before Big O

Cano4prez
05-31-2011, 01:52 PM
Someone justify the logic of putting Kidd before Big O

You can't

DoJoTheSlasher
05-31-2011, 01:52 PM
Someone justify the logic of putting Kidd before Big O

Kidd? How about putting Nash before the Big O?

Hawkeye15
05-31-2011, 01:52 PM
Someone justify the logic of putting Kidd before Big O

or Stockton for that matter, and what the hell is Nash doing there?

Hustlenomics
05-31-2011, 01:52 PM
he must have accidentally left Isiah Thomas off the list

SteBO
05-31-2011, 01:54 PM
Oscar should probably be 2nd here imo, followed by Stockton, Nash, then Kidd if Skip wants to stick with those players.

Gators123
05-31-2011, 01:55 PM
LOL @ Leaving Isiah Thomas off his list.

stephenasmith Stephen A Smith

It's official. Skip BAYLESS should be cited for drug use. He just listed his top-5 PG's of all time and had Kidd and Nash ahead of Isiah!


:laugh2:

MiamiWadeCounty
05-31-2011, 01:56 PM
At least he got no.1 right :p

ManRam
05-31-2011, 01:56 PM
Why is a list Skip Bayless made relevant?

The guy just lives off of bold (idiotic) opinions. He has no NBA credibility at all.

He got #1 right...should have stopped there.

2 has to be Oscar. I'd go Stockton 3rd. It gets a bit more tough after that...

Baller1
05-31-2011, 01:57 PM
1. Magic
2. Robertson
3. Stockton
4. Payton
5. Thomas

theheatles
05-31-2011, 01:57 PM
broussards list was:
1.magic
2. oscar
3.isaiah
4.walt frazier
5.stockton

my list
1.magic
2. oscar
3.isaiah
4.nash
5.kidd(he jumps nash with title win)

TrueFan420
05-31-2011, 01:59 PM
Why is a list Skip Bayless made relevant?

The guy just lives off of bold (idiotic) opinions. He has no NBA credibility at all.

He got #1 right...should have stopped there.

2 has to be Oscar. I'd go Stockton 3rd. It gets a bit more tough after that...

hahahahah dude that video is awesome

Tuck&Rolle
05-31-2011, 02:06 PM
How is Isiah Thomas not on that list and behind Nash???

I hate the guy as a Knicks fan but the guy should be on that list. No question..

Gators123
05-31-2011, 02:07 PM
I think Skip forgot that Isiah beat Jordan, Magic, and Bird to win championships.

Tuck&Rolle
05-31-2011, 02:08 PM
Walt frazier should also be in front of Nash

John Walls Era
05-31-2011, 02:08 PM
:facepalm: No Isiah Thomas....

I use to enjoy watching Skip because he was crazy and hilarious, but now hes just annoying.

beasted86
05-31-2011, 02:09 PM
How is J-Kidd better than Big O?
When did Nash become better than Stockton? When? In what universe?
Nash better than Isiah Thomas?

Leaving Payton off the list is justifiable, but I can't agree with the above.

John Walls Era
05-31-2011, 02:11 PM
broussards list was:
1.magic
2. oscar
3.isaiah
4.walt frazier
5.stockton

my list
1.magic
2. oscar
3.isaiah
4.nash
5.kidd(he jumps nash with title win)

Replace Nash with Stockton and I'd be ok with this. Payton and Kidd are a close 5th.

Chi StateOfMind
05-31-2011, 02:16 PM
Skip Bayless = :facepalm:

But like someone said least he has Magic at #1. :rolleyes:

ManRam
05-31-2011, 02:20 PM
broussards list was:
1.magic
2. oscar
3.isaiah
4.walt frazier
5.stockton

my list
1.magic
2. oscar
3.isaiah
4.nash
5.kidd(he jumps nash with title win)

I just can't grasp an argument, unless all you look at are rings, that Isiah should be higher than Stockton.

Stockton doubled Isiah's career WS/48. Isaiah had a PER of 18.1 for his career, compared to John's 21.8. Stockton was a better passer, shooter, and defender. Stockton's numbers in the playoffs were also better than Isiah's.

MalZee24
05-31-2011, 02:23 PM
Jason Kidd really is the only player in NBA history that could take over an entire game without scoring 1 single point. He has a special special natural raw ability. It's so unique. He SHOULD be in the top 5, but idk where. I'm not saying he should be above or below Stockton or Oscar, but he should be in the top 5 somewhere.

beasted86
05-31-2011, 02:34 PM
I just can't grasp an argument, unless all you look at are rings, that Isiah should be higher than Stockton.

Stockton doubled Isiah's career WS/48. Isaiah had a PER of 18.1 for his career, compared to John's 21.8. Stockton was a better passer, shooter, and defender. Stockton's numbers in the playoffs were also better than Isiah's.
I know a lot of people have a man crush on Stockton because of stats, but...

Isiah was the best player on a team that WON 2 Finals.
Stockton was NOT even the best player on a team that LOST 2 Finals.

I think that pretty much sums it up. Isiah's Finals performance in the 90s Finals is still one of the greatest.

AllBall
05-31-2011, 02:38 PM
Skip Bayless and Ric Bucher have taken ignorance to a new level. :facepalm:

MagicBucsSox
05-31-2011, 02:45 PM
I hate that ppl talk about " man Oscar Robertson" and your like in your 20s or 30s lmao

Sadds The Gr8
05-31-2011, 02:46 PM
he's right

MagicBucsSox
05-31-2011, 02:47 PM
How is J-Kidd better than Big O?
When did Nash become better than Stockton? When? In what universe?
Nash better than Isiah Thomas?

Leaving Payton off the list is justifiable, but I can't agree with the above.

Because Nash can get u 20 unlike Stockton, Nash has mvps and clearly was the star on the team bro are u serious

ManRam
05-31-2011, 02:47 PM
I know a lot of people have a man crush on Stockton because of stats, but...

Isiah was the best player on a team that WON 2 Finals.
Stockton was NOT even the best player on a team that LOST 2 Finals.

I think that pretty much sums it up. Isiah's Finals performance in the 90s Finals is still one of the greatest.

I know that's why people discredit Stockton, and it's valid.

That doesn't mean, however, that he was a better individual player. It means that Isiah won and Stockton didn't. Getting by Jordan twice is a great feat, no doubt. But winning is a team accomplishment for the most part.

I also think Dumars was better than Isiah. He had some stacked teams, too. More than just Pippen. In 88 he had Dantley, Dumars, Laimbeer and Rodman. That's three other HOFers. In 89, when they won, he still had Dantley, Rodman and Laimbeer, in addition to Aguirre who was an all-star the year before on Dallas, and arguably a top 15 player at the time (14th most MVP Award Shares).

He had some great players with him, and he may have been the best player, but it was very, very, very close.

I just think, watching them with my (young eyes) that Stockton was just better across the board. He didn't have the team success like Isiah, but I really still feel he was better individually.

Ebbs
05-31-2011, 02:48 PM
Magic
Oscar
Stockton
Kidd
Nash
Isaiah

After that it gets trickier for me. The list is off but Kidd and Nash both deserve to be in the top 5. I'm sorry I know people often like to give past players the benefit of the doubt and our cautious whilst putting them over all time greats. But Nash and Kidd are definitely worthu of top 5 slots.

kbrill21
05-31-2011, 02:48 PM
Stats alone and Mark Jackson deserves to be mentioned. Maybe, honorable mention or 5b.

pacofunk64
05-31-2011, 02:49 PM
I got no problems with his list. Sure he left a few off like Payton and Thomas but it is his opinion.

TylerSL
05-31-2011, 02:50 PM
1.Magic
2.Stockton
3.Robertson
4.Thomas
5.Payton

TylerSL
05-31-2011, 02:51 PM
I got no problems with his list. Sure he left a few off like Payton and Thomas but it is his opinion.

:confused:

John Walls Era
05-31-2011, 02:54 PM
Because Nash can get u 20 unlike Stockton, Nash has mvps and clearly was the star on the team bro are u serious

Stockton played defense.

Also what do you mean by "Nash can get u 20"? Stockton had a career FG% of 51.5% and 3pt FG% of 38.4%.

O did I mention Nash plays bad defense?

PhillyFaninLA
05-31-2011, 02:58 PM
1. Magic
2. Robertson
3. Stockton
4. Cousy
5. Isiah (or Kidd)

pacofunk64
05-31-2011, 02:58 PM
:confused:

lol, I think I get what your saying. I said I didn't have a problem but listed I few he left off.

Basically I'm saying I think his list is good to where he could have easily replaced any of the two (except Magic) with Payton or Thomas and people still make the same argument. I wouldn't be able to definitively argue those two over anyone else.

PhillyFaninLA
05-31-2011, 02:59 PM
Walt frazier should also be in front of Nash

Almost put him on my top 5 list.

Raoul Duke
05-31-2011, 03:00 PM
I also think Dumars was better than Isiah. (14th most MVP Award Shares).

I'm a huge Detroit homer, and Zeke is my all-time favorite player, but I'd still give Stockton the slight edge overall. Anything else would just be an emotional choice on my part based on love.

But you're dead wrong about Dumars. There's a reason that Joe took a back seat to Isiah from day one.

Also, we didn't have Dantley when we won in '89. He was traded to bring us back Mark Aguirre.

I honestly don't see where Nash enters the conversation unless you're basing it strictly on shooting, because he is one of the greatest shooters to ever play the game, and thats a fact.

t_money25
05-31-2011, 03:10 PM
I know a lot of people have a man crush on Stockton because of stats, but...

Isiah was the best player on a team that WON 2 Finals.
Stockton was NOT even the best player on a team that LOST 2 Finals.

I think that pretty much sums it up. Isiah's Finals performance in the 90s Finals is still one of the greatest.

I disagree. It's not Stockton's fault Malone was his teammate. if Malone was on those Pistons teams, Isaiah wouldn't be the best player on that team either. Plus, Utah was unlucky enough to run into Jordan in his prime for both of those finals appearances. I'm not sure any team would of defeated those Bulls' teams.

MagicBucsSox
05-31-2011, 03:16 PM
Stockton played defense.

Also what do you mean by "Nash can get u 20"? Stockton had a career FG% of 51.5% and 3pt FG% of 38.4%.

O did I mention Nash plays bad defense?


I meant Nash is a great scorer and can for himself unlike Stockton. Way better ballhandler, like are u serious?
Nash also played in a era with way more athletic players at his position by far. Please don't talk about stocktons defense as if he can shut someone down lmao, as if he could guard the derons,barons Pauls roses westbrooks that Stockton never seen

Ps did I mention 2mvps?

mike_noodles
05-31-2011, 03:16 PM
Why oh why is everyone on Isiah's sack here??? Now I don't agree with the order of Bayless' list, and if it were a top 10 list, Isiah likely sits 6th or 7th. Yes he was a great PG, no question there. Yes he won a couple of rings. Yes, he had two, count them, two hall of famers to play with on those teams.

I think everyone forgets just how amazing those seasons were by Steve Nash, some of those stats he dropped were first time ever stats. That means nobody had accomplished what he had in those two years he was MVP. Oh yeah, and he was MVP two straight years.

1. Magic
2. The Big O
3. Kidd
4. Nash
5. Stockton

IUBball22
05-31-2011, 03:20 PM
He does this on purpose guys. He gets paid to bring attention to that show. Every two or three days he makes an absolutely rediculous statement that makes no sense. Everyone freaks out and blogs about what he said, OR Starts a thread on a sports site. This is what he wants. No one could put Nash ahead of Oscar and Isaiah. Id probably throw Payton in there as well. He needs attention and he is doing a good job of getting it.

J-Relo
05-31-2011, 03:26 PM
He must not like defense. No Payton, no Thomas?

BuddhaMONK
05-31-2011, 03:28 PM
nash is the best point guard of all time...Just not a very good decision maker, keeping himself in phoenix all these years ruined his legacy. Imagine if he had gone to Boston, or the Lakers and won a couple rings...everyone would be saying he's the best.

allSUAVE
05-31-2011, 03:30 PM
I Love Skip man, His opinion means more to him and don't give a ****

Like **** you if you don't agree with me it's my opinion

cantstopthee
05-31-2011, 03:31 PM
Pistol Pete should be there as well.

Lakersfan2483
05-31-2011, 03:31 PM
It didn't seem like Bayless took very much time to put together his list. Very questionable order and what is Steve Nash doing ahead of Payton, Oscar, Isaiah?

Top 5 point guards:

Magic
Oscar
Isaiah
Stockton
Payton

Azzacadabra
05-31-2011, 03:35 PM
I love how the people who criticize his list, won't make their own list.

allSUAVE
05-31-2011, 03:36 PM
Magic
Walt fraizer
Oscar
Kidd
Nash

Chapin78
05-31-2011, 03:37 PM
This is all very debateable because of the era's that each player has played in. You have to look at the players that were on the team and also look at the team that the PG was on. What era did he play in? Who was on his team? Any HOF'rs on his team? Who was the competition at the time?

Hellcrooner
05-31-2011, 03:38 PM
Mmm Robertson should be second

1 Magic

2 Robertson3

3 Stockton

4 Kidd

5 Cousy.

Nash is good , very good but not on the level of them 5 NOR THOMAS.

CeeDub15
05-31-2011, 03:38 PM
Not a fan of Bayless at all.

210Don
05-31-2011, 03:39 PM
i like skip! he entertains me and roots for my spurs

Il Mago50
05-31-2011, 03:40 PM
1. Magic
2. Robertson
3. Stockton
4. Payton
5. Thomas

This with Kidd being 6th. Nash is a great playmaker and passer but he is a giant liability on the defensive end. No way he goes ahead of Payton, Thomas or Kidd when it comes to all-time PGs.

Squad13
05-31-2011, 03:45 PM
Oh my god, what an awful list. Show the all time steals/assist leader some respect!

wjmoffatt
05-31-2011, 03:51 PM
Only Magic deserves to be above Oscar! And he preaches Prisoner of the Moment so much, then why does he live by double standards? No way Kidds number 2! Can anyone honestly say that at any point in his career they felt like he was the best PG in the league? And Nash, ha, he plays no D; show Isah Thomas some love, at least he has a ring; unlike Kidd, Nash, and Stockton. Everything isn't about Offense!

onlythisfar41
05-31-2011, 03:52 PM
He must not like defense. No Payton, no Thomas?

Great sig bro, playing on my dreamcast with the blazers team he was on brings back some sweet childhood memories haha

miller74
05-31-2011, 03:53 PM
Nash has 2 MVPs and his following season was probably his strongest

COOLbeans
05-31-2011, 03:55 PM
1. Magic
2. Robertson
3. Stockton
4. Payton
5. Thomas

This is my list too. Kidd is an alternate, and can definitely be considered a top 5 PG.

DwayneMVPwade
05-31-2011, 03:56 PM
NO WAY kidd is 2nd on the list

COOLbeans
05-31-2011, 03:56 PM
Robertson can also be # 1 from what I've heard from people who actually saw this guy play.

KnicksR4Real
05-31-2011, 04:00 PM
Wtf!

KnicksR4Real
05-31-2011, 04:01 PM
why would kidd be that high over the likes of the big o

Illinirob83
05-31-2011, 04:04 PM
His basketball retardation reaches new heights every time he opens his mouth. Just in today's debate he says Oscar and Thomas weren't pg's and aren't worthy to be put on a list. He then says that wade was most responsible for the heat beating the bulls and that wade is better tham Lebron (nothing new there I guess). H then asks who played pg for the 98 bulls, I dont know why that was relevant to the discussion, and apparently he stumped the basketball sage, broussard. Ron harper was the pg for the bulls but many times pippen would run the point at top of the TRIANGLE! How do these people get paid to talk basketball? The triangle has only been the offense for 11 of the last 20 champions, you would think people who follow the sport would know a little bit about the actual offense by now. A traditional point isn't needed in that offense at all, it is more run as an off-guard label than anything.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-31-2011, 04:47 PM
get Nash outta there please:puke:

TheHighLife
05-31-2011, 05:06 PM
Oscar is probably 3rd Nash 4th

J-Relo
05-31-2011, 05:11 PM
Great sig bro, playing on my dreamcast with the blazers team he was on brings back some sweet childhood memories haha

:hi5:

AddiX
05-31-2011, 05:22 PM
Any pg list that doesn't include isiah Thomas is crap to me. I hate everything about Thomas, but anyone who watched that man and saw how he lead his team knows that is one of the best point guards in NBA history.

I would put Thomas right there with any pg. I don't think I've ever seen another pg who was so smooth yet had all the skills and talent and leadership he did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1euE0pj_JE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

KingPosey
05-31-2011, 05:28 PM
Its Skip Bayless. He currently holds the title of most outlandish sports commentator, while not having any sports background to respect. However, Colin Cowherd is making a bid for the title.

Gators123
05-31-2011, 05:30 PM
Any pg list that doesn't include isiah Thomas is crap to me. I hate everything about Thomas, but anyone who watched that man and saw how he lead his team knows that is one of the best point guards in NBA history.

I would put Thomas right there with any pg. I don't think I've ever seen another pg who was so smooth yet had all the skills and talent and leadership he did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1euE0pj_JE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

:nod:

SluggeR
05-31-2011, 05:35 PM
It has nothing to do with this list, but bayless is the reason I stopped watching 1st & 10..he's a joke. I use to love watching Stephen A. Smith hand it to him and I'm not even a Stephen A. Smith fan. It's embarrassing how ESPN has made that show all about bayless. He's wanted to be Lebron's "Cosell" from the jump and it's so obvious that it's pathetic. bayless is ESPN's disney version of a "shock jock".

MagicBucsSox
05-31-2011, 05:36 PM
Ppl are sleeping on Kidd. The guy accomplish alot on bad teams. Even his Nets finals team stunk. 3rd All time 3pt shooter after coming in the league with no jumper. Call "ason" because he had no J. He is #2

Kashmir13579
05-31-2011, 05:37 PM
what the hell is Nash doing there?

:pity:

Kashmir13579
05-31-2011, 05:42 PM
Bayless is an idiot. i still think Nash should be top 5. Dude has severely limited athletic ability, no defense, undersized, and still manages to win 2 MVPs (could've been 3 quite frankly). he also has managed to solidify himself as on of the best shooters and passers we have or will ever see. if he's not a top 5 PG my whole world is shook. then again, i wasn't watching basketball when Big o and Zeke were doing their thing.

i'm gonna need to see some adjusted statistics for this mess.

GodsSon
05-31-2011, 06:05 PM
What? You mean to tell me Derrick Rose didn't top his list?

How is it possible that the second coming of Christ himself isn't a top 5 PG?

:p

AddiX
05-31-2011, 06:10 PM
What? You mean to tell me Derrick Rose didn't top his list?

How is it possible that the second coming of Christ himself isn't a top 5 PG?

:p

Lol

Don't bring the rose ettes back out, most of them disappeared recently, I would like to keep it that way for a little while.:D

rhino17
05-31-2011, 06:11 PM
Steve Nash LOL

AddiX
05-31-2011, 06:13 PM
Bayless is an idiot. i still think Nash should be top 5. Dude has severely limited athletic ability, no defense, undersized, and still manages to win 2 MVPs (could've been 3 quite frankly). he also has managed to solidify himself as on of the best shooters and passers we have or will ever see. if he's not a top 5 PG my whole world is shook. then again, i wasn't watching basketball when Big o and Zeke were doing their thing.

i'm gonna need to see some adjusted statistics for this mess.

No player that bad on defense can be a top 5 pg IMO.

Not to mention as soon as porter went there and tried getting rid of that clown basketball system, Nash wasnt looking like a MVP anymore.

I'll say the same thing I said before, any pg list without isiah Thomas can't be taken seriously. Thomas was the perfect pg.

Rentzias
05-31-2011, 06:14 PM
Bayless is an idiot. i still think Nash should be top 5. Dude has severely limited athletic ability, no defense, undersized, and still manages to win 2 MVPs (could've been 3 quite frankly). he also has managed to solidify himself as on of the best shooters and passers we have or will ever see. if he's not a top 5 PG my whole world is shook. then again, i wasn't watching basketball when Big o and Zeke were doing their thing.

i'm gonna need to see some adjusted statistics for this mess.

Zeke was beast, but Nash also had some incredible offensive talent around him. He's in my personal top five just in terms of style of play and court vision, but I would have trouble placing him above Stockton, Payton and Zeke. I think 1-2 are Magic/Big O no question, but I really struggle to place Nash and Kidd.

utahjazzno12fan
05-31-2011, 06:17 PM
I would start the top 3 as:
1) Magic
2) Oscar Robinson
3) Stockton

Those should be the 3 that starts any list. Statistically, Stockton way overshines Isiah easily. Isiah had 1 season with over 1000 and 1 other with 900 or more. Stockton had 7 1000 assist seasons (5 which were over 1100) and 2 with more than 900. Stocktons's shooting percentages dwarfed Isiah's. Stockton also averaged more steals while getting less turnovers (which is great considering he had many more assists). Thomas did have more PPG (while Stockton had the better shooting pct from 2, 3, and the FT line), and Isiah had more rebounds. Stockton also had the longevity to play to the age of 40.

Stockton beats Kidd in shooting percentages (2, 3, and FT). Kidd's best assist season was 804 assists. After becoming a starter, Stockton had 14 seasons in which he played at least 65 games. Stockton had 10 seasons out of his 14 in which he had more assists than Kidd did in his best season. Those 4 seasons he didn't best Kidd's best season were Stockton's last 4 at the age of 37, 38, 39, and 40. Stockton averaged less turnovers per game than Kidd and had more steals per game. Kidd has averaged .1 more points per game. Kidd also out-rebounded Stockton.

Comparing Stockton with Nash, Stockton has averaged just a point less per game. Rebounds are about even. Nash has never had a 900 assist season... See Stockton's above. Also, Nash plays no defense. He doesn't even average a steal per game. Stockton is the all-time steals leader.

utahjazzno12fan
05-31-2011, 06:21 PM
Ppl are sleeping on Kidd. The guy accomplish alot on bad teams. Even his Nets finals team stunk. 3rd All time 3pt shooter after coming in the league with no jumper. Call "ason" because he had no J. He is #2

How is he 3rd all time 3pt shooter? Based on total 3's, percentage, or what?

utahjazzno12fan
05-31-2011, 06:26 PM
Payton doesn't really beat Stockton in any shooting percentages, rebounds, or any stat that really matters. It is either a push or Stockton wins. The ones Payton wins are very close...

Also the same with Walt Frazier.

MiamiWadeCounty
05-31-2011, 06:33 PM
How is he 3rd all time 3pt shooter? Based on total 3's, percentage, or what?

Total. I remember seeing the stat on TNT. Reggie and Ray Allen both had like 2400 or something like that and Kidd was 3rd on the list with 16-1700.

AddiX
05-31-2011, 06:33 PM
Payton doesn't really beat Stockton in any shooting percentages, rebounds, or any stat that really matters. It is either a push or Stockton wins. The ones Payton wins are very close...

Also the same with Walt Frazier.

Payton was one if the best defensive players of all time. Forgetting that are we?:eyebrow:

sportscrazy34
05-31-2011, 06:42 PM
The only PG i would take over Stockton is Magic. I like Oscar a lot but i'd take Stockton.

KingsPhillies
05-31-2011, 06:42 PM
No Gary Payton, no respect for the list.

No glove, no love? I wholeheartedly agree. And John Stockton should at least be #3. I've always disliked Skip Bayless, anyway.

Rentzias
05-31-2011, 06:45 PM
I would start the top 3 as:
1) Magic
2) Oscar Robinson
3) Stockton

Oscar Robertson and Jackie Robinson's lovechild!

That aside, it wasn't like Isiah didn't distribute the ball. Don't you get bonus points for being able to avg. 20 ppg AND dish out almost 14 apg? That's a beast peak season. I'm gonna beat a dead horse, but Stockton was passing to Malone, which is not to say that he wouldn't have had similar success with someone else, but Kidd was passing to Keith Van Horn, Kenyon Martin, Kerry Kittles, and young Richard Jefferson.
I'm with you on Nash about defense, although it's not fair to compare an average stat with a career stat.

That said, I don't think Stockton is an auto-#3 the way Big O and Magic are auto-#1 and #2. Good argument though, but Zeke has just as big a claim.

DoJoTheSlasher
05-31-2011, 06:45 PM
What if Payton, Olajuwon, and Rodman played for the same team? Would the opponent score 50 ppg? Random thought.

THE GIPPER
05-31-2011, 06:48 PM
No player that bad on defense can be a top 5 pg IMO.

Not to mention as soon as porter went there and tried getting rid of that clown basketball system, Nash wasnt looking like a MVP anymore.
I'll say the same thing I said before, any pg list without isiah Thomas can't be taken seriously. Thomas was the perfect pg.

:facepalm: seriously wow. the guy averages 50% 40% 90% over his career. that has nothing to do with the "system". and why is stockton so much better at d? and whyy doesnt nash get lit up everytime another good pg plays him if his d is so bad?

Kashmir13579
05-31-2011, 06:51 PM
Not to mention as soon as porter went there and tried getting rid of that clown basketball system, Nash wasnt looking like a MVP anymore.



They're still playing the same system if i'm not mistaken and this year has been the first substantial drop in Nash's numbers.

Raidaz4Life
05-31-2011, 06:51 PM
This thread has shown me two things



1.) How INCREDIBLY underrated John Stockton has become

2.) How INCREDIBLY overrated titles are in determining a player's individual talent.



1a.) Magic (better player and won more titles)
1b.) Stockton (better point guard with much longer career)
3.) Oscar Robertson
4.) Jason Kidd
5.) Steve Nash

6.) Isaiah Thomas
7.) Gary Payton
8.) Walt Frazier

DoJoTheSlasher
05-31-2011, 06:52 PM
:facepalm: seriously wow. the guy averages 50% 40% 90% over his career. that has nothing to do with the "system". and why is stockton so much better at d? and whyy doesnt nash get lit up everytime another good pg plays him if his d is so bad?

Why does Stockton have the most assists in NBA history by about 4,000? Why does Stockton have the most steals in NBA history?

Grant Hill guarded pretty much every PG when they played...

Chapin78
05-31-2011, 06:57 PM
1. Michael Adams
2. Tyrone "Mugsy" Bogues
3. Spud Webb
4. The Professor (from And1)
5. Kenny Anderson
5b. Calvin Murphy

Thats my list and I am sticking to it.

TylerSL
05-31-2011, 07:01 PM
lol, I think I get what your saying. I said I didn't have a problem but listed I few he left off.

Basically I'm saying I think his list is good to where he could have easily replaced any of the two (except Magic) with Payton or Thomas and people still make the same argument. I wouldn't be able to definitively argue those two over anyone else.

o ok lol, you had me worried lol.

AddiX
05-31-2011, 07:17 PM
They're still playing the same system if i'm not mistaken and this year has been the first substantial drop in Nash's numbers.

No, porter was fired because Nash and amare complained that they wanted the old system back. And that's exactly what happened.

AddiX
05-31-2011, 07:23 PM
:facepalm: seriously wow. the guy averages 50% 40% 90% over his career. that has nothing to do with the "system". and why is stockton so much better at d? and whyy doesnt nash get lit up everytime another good pg plays him if his d is so bad?

Nash might be the worst defensive pg of all time, he's that bad. Dallas couldn't be a real contender until they got rid of him because his defense was so bad.

Nash is the first player the offense attacks almost everytime down the court. He's the reason dallas's team defense was so bad and the reason phx has been among the worst defensive team in NBA history since he's been there.

And as I've said before, in Dallas, all he did was chuck, and than he got mike d system and was a MVP and now considered a all time great pg? I don't think so....

You can't be all time great by being great on offense and giving it right back on the other side of the court.

mdm692
05-31-2011, 07:23 PM
Lol @ puttin kidd top 5

Kashmir13579
05-31-2011, 07:25 PM
No, porter was fired because Nash and amare complained that they wanted the old system back. And that's exactly what happened.

Then they made the conference finals again.

THE GIPPER
05-31-2011, 07:25 PM
Why does Stockton have the most assists in NBA history by about 4,000? Why does Stockton have the most steals in NBA history?
Grant Hill guarded pretty much every PG when they played...

no doubt hes one of the best but it helped that he played 19 seasons..and it helped that he could dish it to malone his whole career


and if grant hill guarded the pg's why didnt nash get lit up by the guy he was guarding?

utahjazzno12fan
05-31-2011, 07:28 PM
Payton was one if the best defensive players of all time. Forgetting that are we?:eyebrow:

No... Didn't forget that. Just didn't seem relevant since Stockton is the all-time steals leader.

THE GIPPER
05-31-2011, 07:29 PM
Nash might be the worst defensive pg of all time, he's that bad. Dallas couldn't be a real contender until they got rid of him because his defense was so bad.

Nash is the first player the offense attacks almost everytime down the court. He's the reason dallas's team defense was so bad and the reason phx has been among the worst defensive team in NBA history since he's been there.

And as I've said before, in Dallas, all he did was chuck, and than he got mike d system and was a MVP and now considered a all time great pg? I don't think so....

You can't be all time great by being great on offense and giving it right back on the other side of the court.

How can a "chucker" shoot 50% from the field?

ShiroRX
05-31-2011, 07:33 PM
Stephen A. Smith actually scientifically proved the other day Skip knows nothing about basketball.

CB29
05-31-2011, 07:39 PM
jerry west should get consideration on the list... not a top 5 but def up there

utahjazzno12fan
05-31-2011, 07:42 PM
Total. I remember seeing the stat on TNT. Reggie and Ray Allen both had like 2400 or something like that and Kidd was 3rd on the list with 16-1700.

Yeah... But he is only a .348 percent from behind the 3 point line. Ray Allen is .399 and Miller is .395. He has the high number of attempts... He isn't like one of the sharp shooters like a Glen Rice (.400), Steve Kerr (.454), etc...

When looking at the list you have to get all the way to 18th on the list before you find anyone with a lower percentage. So out of the top 17, he has the lowest percentage of all.

mdm692
05-31-2011, 07:47 PM
wow reading this threads post i know how miami heat and lebron fans feel. . .so much hate for a guy whose been to 3 WCF in the last 6 years has been averaging a double double with the suns has shot 40-50-90 5x(nobody even close). Not to mention hes led the league in APG in 5 out of the last 6 seasons and has had the best offensive team in the league. Exception: this year. Oh wait dont forget 2x WELL DESERVED MVP!!!!

With that being said sorry heat and bron fans for al the hate you get

Lastly if youre going to quote to hate dont waste your time F### YOU
Nash one of the best all time arguably top 3 top 5 for sure

utahjazzno12fan
05-31-2011, 07:50 PM
Oscar Robertson and Jackie Robinson's lovechild!

That aside, it wasn't like Isiah didn't distribute the ball. Don't you get bonus points for being able to avg. 20 ppg AND dish out almost 14 apg? That's a beast peak season. I'm gonna beat a dead horse, but Stockton was passing to Malone, which is not to say that he wouldn't have had similar success with someone else, but Kidd was passing to Keith Van Horn, Kenyon Martin, Kerry Kittles, and young Richard Jefferson.
I'm with you on Nash about defense, although it's not fair to compare an average stat with a career stat.

That said, I don't think Stockton is an auto-#3 the way Big O and Magic are auto-#1 and #2. Good argument though, but Zeke has just as big a claim.

I would be Thomas 4th on that list. He had one season near 14 assists. 11.1 was next highest. He had two other seasons above 10 assists. Stockton had a career average at 10.5 over 19 seasons with more than 10 for 10 seasons.

King P
05-31-2011, 07:51 PM
1) Magic
2) Oscar
3) Stockton
4) Kidd
5) Thomas

heyman321
05-31-2011, 07:52 PM
1. Magic
2. Stockton
3. Robertson
4. Isiah
5. J-Kidd

RZZZA
05-31-2011, 07:55 PM
1) Derrick Rose
2) Derrick Rose
3) Derrick Rose
4) Derrick Rose
5) Derrick Rose

seriously though, why does anybody take Skip Bayless seriously? Why is this thread 8 pages long when the topic is Skip Bayless?

Skip should be unofficially banned from this site just like Bleacher Report has been

AddiX
05-31-2011, 07:56 PM
How can a "chucker" shoot 50% from the field?

Did you actually watch him when he played in Dallas? him van exel and dirk took turns popping 3s like it was a street ball game.

Like I said, Dallas was the worst defensive team in the NBA, and once Nash went to phx, they became the worst, and still are.

Hiphopopotamus
05-31-2011, 07:56 PM
Magic
O
Stockton
Thomas
tough, for 5th....you can be legit and still say Nash, Kidd, the Glove....I don't really care just think Skip is an idiot not to have Thomas and O higher

utahjazzno12fan
05-31-2011, 07:57 PM
:facepalm: seriously wow. the guy averages 50% 40% 90% over his career. that has nothing to do with the "system". and why is stockton so much better at d? and whyy doesnt nash get lit up everytime another good pg plays him if his d is so bad?

Stockton averaged over 2 steals per game for his career. Nash has never averaged over 1 assist per game.

Stockton averaged 18 min per game as a rookie but still averaged 1.3 steals. Nash never averaged more than 1 per game in a season.

I know blocks arent much at PG, but Stockton averaged .2 per in his career. Nash only has 1 season where he got .2 blocks a game.

Stockton is possibly the best defensive guard ever. Nash has probably never even been the best defensive guard on his team.

AddiX
05-31-2011, 07:57 PM
Then they made the conference finals again.

Take your L and move on buddy.:D

Hiphopopotamus
05-31-2011, 07:59 PM
1) Derrick Rose
2) Derrick Rose
3) Derrick Rose
4) Derrick Rose
5) Derrick Rose

seriously though, why does anybody take Skip Bayless seriously? Why is this thread 8 pages long when the topic is Skip Bayless?

Skip should be unofficially banned from this site just like Bleacher Report has been

Wait, RZZZA....bleacher report isn't legit :D, for real though.....Skip is an idiot

ShiroRX
05-31-2011, 08:00 PM
1) Derrick Rose
2) Derrick Rose
3) Derrick Rose
4) Derrick Rose
5) Derrick Rose

seriously though, why does anybody take Skip Bayless seriously? Why is this thread 8 pages long when the topic is Skip Bayless?

Skip should be unofficially banned from this site just like Bleacher Report has been

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9lg6HqJeY0

Hiphopopotamus
05-31-2011, 08:01 PM
Stockton averaged over 2 steals per game for his career. Nash has never averaged over 1 assist per game.

Stockton averaged 18 min per game as a rookie but still averaged 1.3 steals. Nash never averaged more than 1 per game in a season.

I know blocks arent much at PG, but Stockton averaged .2 per in his career. Nash only has 1 season where he got .2 blocks a game.

Stockton is possibly the best defensive guard ever. Nash has probably never even been the best defensive guard on his team.

Yeah, its weird. Stockton has actually become underrated. Nothing against Malone he was great, and both needed each other, but I'm just saying there are many guys that could score so much more if Stockton kept getting them wide open jumpers. Stockton was sick, man.

mdm692
05-31-2011, 08:03 PM
Wow i wonder if people are mad cause nash who was thought to be washed up came to az and became one of the most exciting and greatest pgs of all time lol

THE GIPPER
05-31-2011, 08:04 PM
Stockton averaged over 2 steals per game for his career. Nash has never averaged over 1 assist per game.

Stockton averaged 18 min per game as a rookie but still averaged 1.3 steals. Nash never averaged more than 1 per game in a season.

I know blocks arent much at PG, but Stockton averaged .2 per in his career. Nash only has 1 season where he got .2 blocks a game.

Stockton is possibly the best defensive guard ever. Nash has probably never even been the best defensive guard on his team.

Thank you for informing me I honestly didn't know stockton was #1 all time in steals. But I have a hard time believing he is one of the best defensive guards ever.

utahjazzno12fan
05-31-2011, 08:05 PM
wow reading this threads post i know how miami heat and lebron fans feel. . .so much hate for a guy whose been to 3 WCF in the last 6 years has been averaging a double double with the suns has shot 40-50-90 5x(nobody even close). Not to mention hes led the league in APG in 5 out of the last 6 seasons and has had the best offensive team in the league. Exception: this year. Oh wait dont forget 2x WELL DESERVED MVP!!!!

With that being said sorry heat and bron fans for al the hate you get

Lastly if youre going to quote to hate dont waste your time F### YOU
Nash one of the best all time arguably top 3 top 5 for sure

You could possibly argue top 5, but not top 3. Who is he better than Magic, Oscar Robinson, Stockton, or Isiah Thomas. He has to beat out 2 to be top 3.

AddiX
05-31-2011, 08:08 PM
Stockton averaged over 2 steals per game for his career. Nash has never averaged over 1 assist per game.

Stockton averaged 18 min per game as a rookie but still averaged 1.3 steals. Nash never averaged more than 1 per game in a season.

I know blocks arent much at PG, but Stockton averaged .2 per in his career. Nash only has 1 season where he got .2 blocks a game.

Stockton is possibly the best defensive guard ever. Nash has probably never even been the best defensive guard on his team.

Getting steals means your good at getting steals, it doesn't mean your a great defender by any means. Not saying Stockton wasn't a good defender, but steals isnt the reason he's good.

And defensively comparing him to Payton is crazy.

utahjazzno12fan
05-31-2011, 08:13 PM
Thank you for informing me I honestly didn't know stockton was #1 all time in steals. But I have a hard time believing he is one of the best defensive guards ever.

I would put Jordan ahead of Stockton, but Jordan averaged 2.3 steals per game. A lot of people underestimate Stockton because he was in a small market and had Malone.

mdm692
05-31-2011, 08:15 PM
You could possibly argue top 5, but not top 3. Who is he better than Magic, Oscar Robinson, Stockton, or Isiah Thomas. He has to beat out 2 to be top 3.

thx for making a good argument and not just hating BUT. . .

If we were to compare by the pure definition of pg(running offense, making your team better not just by passin) nash can make strong case for top 3. But if youre taking defense and other factors into consideration then he falls slightly. 6Th at worst.

Oh btw for those who say suns cant defend go look at last uears numbers top half of the league in opp. Fg %

utahjazzno12fan
05-31-2011, 08:19 PM
Getting steals means your good at getting steals, it doesn't mean your a great defender by any means. Not saying Stockton wasn't a good defender, but steals isnt the reason he's good.

And defensively comparing him to Payton is crazy.

Yeah... I know. Its crazy. 3265 steals compared to 2514 steals. Oops. Sorry. 2514 is Michael Jordan. 2445 is the number Payton had. More than 30% difference.

yanksrock
05-31-2011, 08:20 PM
LOL on no Isiah Thomas

Korman12
05-31-2011, 08:33 PM
Magic
Oscar
Isiah
Stockton
Kidd/Payton/Nash - It's harder to decide on the 5th spot than it appears. Payton's peak was possibly the best and he was hands down the best defender to ever play the position, but he didn't win in his peak (he did, however, as a secondary player getting 24 mpg with mediocre numbers).

Kidd and Nash had much better longevity than Payton did and were better facilitators (not saying Payton wasn't good - but Kidd and Nash are two of the best ever). If Kidd wins this year he gets the 5th spot, in my opinion, without much of an argument.

utahjazzno12fan
05-31-2011, 08:37 PM
thx for making a good argument and not just hating BUT. . .

If we were to compare by the pure definition of pg(running offense, making your team better not just by passin) nash can make strong case for top 3. But if youre taking defense and other factors into consideration then he falls slightly. 6Th at worst.

Oh btw for those who say suns cant defend go look at last uears numbers top half of the league in opp. Fg %

No doubt he is one of the top ever, but ever in terms of the NBA is a long time. He runs the offense. He makes his team better all around. I just don't see him as top 3... He should be a HOFer though. There is also a strong crop of young PG with Deron Williams, Rajon Rondo, Chris Paul, and Derrick Rose. Being top 3 would be tough for any of them but top 10 is quite possible for more than 1.

OaklandsFinest
05-31-2011, 08:50 PM
First off Skip is an idiot end of discussion. But as far as top 5 I think Kidd and Payton are both better guards than Stockton. No disrespect but Stockton was not the complete pg's that GP and Kidd were, maybe he was a better assist man but thats one aspect. Steve Nash belongs in the Mark Price, Kenny Anderson, Rod Strickland area of the pg list. Plus G.P. and J Kidd are from the Town so ya know they on the list.

1- Magic
2- Big O
3- Isiah Thomas
4 - J Kidd
5- G.P.

OaklandsFinest
05-31-2011, 09:01 PM
Yeah... I know. Its crazy. 3265 steals compared to 2514 steals. Oops. Sorry. 2514 is Michael Jordan. 2445 is the number Payton had. More than 30% difference.

First of don't compare career totals with Stockton thats a ****** way to do it knowing he damn well played more games its a jaded stat. Very solid pg, but never had to carry a team, and ran a very good pick and roll system. You never put Stockton on the other team's number one guy. Gary Payton guarded Jordon, and every other team's number one. I bet you if you watched all of Stockton's steals, 85 % are off of doubling the post to over compensate Malone's average at best D. C'mon man miss me with that homerism.

utahjazzno12fan
05-31-2011, 09:06 PM
First off Skip is an idiot end of discussion. But as far as top 5 I think Kidd and Payton are both better guards than Stockton. No disrespect but Stockton was not the complete pg's that GP and Kidd were, maybe he was a better assist man but thats one aspect. Steve Nash belongs in the Mark Price, Kenny Anderson, Rod Strickland area of the pg list. Plus G.P. and J Kidd are from the Town so ya know they on the list.

1- Magic
2- Big O
3- Isiah Thomas
4 - J Kidd
5- G.P.

How was Stockton not a complete PG? I really don't know where you get that. What was he weak in?

utahjazzno12fan
05-31-2011, 09:13 PM
First of don't compare career totals with Stockton thats a ****** way to do it knowing he damn well played more games its a jaded stat. Very solid pg, but never had to carry a team, and ran a very good pick and roll system. You never put Stockton on the other team's number one guy. Gary Payton guarded Jordon, and every other team's number one. I bet you if you watched all of Stockton's steals, 85 % are off of doubling the post to over compensate Malone's average at best D. C'mon man miss me with that homerism.

So I guess you throw out Jabbar because he played so many games? Stockton played in so many games because he was effective for so long. As a matter of fact, playing until 40 hurt career averages. That is why I used career averages so often. They were outstanding.

utahjazzno12fan
05-31-2011, 09:37 PM
Stockton ran the pick and roll. That's why he had so many assists. If it is that simple shouldn't everybody run the pick and roll?

He had Karl Malone. That's the reason he had so many assists. Ever think Malone wouldn't have scored so much had it not been for Stockton? So by that statement, shouldn't anybody the Heat plug in at PG lead the league in assists?

Only 3 players have ever had more than 1000 assists in a season. Two did it once. Stockton did it 7 times! He also got over 1100 several times.

utahjazzno12fan
05-31-2011, 09:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOPESj7To2Q&feature=fvwrel

LakersIn5
06-01-2011, 11:12 AM
its his opinion cant do anything about that. so just make your own lists

Mc Lovin
06-01-2011, 11:34 AM
I have no problem with the list it's how he has them numbered. Robertson is ahead of Kidd and Nash and I think Isiah Thomas needs to be on that list maybe ahead of Nash. Stockton, Kidd, Robertson, and Magic all deserve to be on that list. Nash does too but I might put Isiah at #5 and Nash at #6.

Mc Lovin
06-01-2011, 11:36 AM
1. Magic
2. Robertson
3. Stockton
4. Payton
5. Thomas

As much as I love Gary Payton and he was always my favorite PG in the league and when he came to Boston I was so pumped up but, he's not ahead of Jason Kidd. No way.

Mc Lovin
06-01-2011, 11:39 AM
Jason Kidd really is the only player in NBA history that could take over an entire game without scoring 1 single point. He has a special special natural raw ability. It's so unique. He SHOULD be in the top 5, but idk where. I'm not saying he should be above or below Stockton or Oscar, but he should be in the top 5 somewhere.

Definitely top 5. He's behind Magic and Oscar but I could put him ahead of Stockton. He could fall anywhere from #3 to #5 but no lower. No way.

nothappyinut
06-01-2011, 12:04 PM
This thread has shown me two things



1.) How INCREDIBLY underrated John Stockton has become

2.) How INCREDIBLY overrated titles are in determining a player's individual talent.



1a.) Magic (better player and won more titles)
1b.) Stockton (better point guard with much longer career)
3.) Oscar Robertson
4.) Jason Kidd
5.) Steve Nash

6.) Isaiah Thomas
7.) Gary Payton
8.) Walt Frazier

Holy shizzz a guy that gets it. Stocktons stats speak for themselves and no one is touching his assist record. Rings can only be won as a team.

MLB2K10King
06-01-2011, 12:06 PM
Ok first he didnt even mention Bob Cousy, or Gary Payton. Secondly, there is no way that Magic goes above Oscar Robinson

MLB2K10King
06-01-2011, 12:09 PM
Because Nash can get u 20 unlike Stockton, Nash has mvps and clearly was the star on the team bro are u serious

Nash has only been really good for about 5 or six years.

Raoul Duke
06-01-2011, 12:41 PM
A lot of people are forgetting a lot of things. For instance, Stockton's prime lasted like 15 years. That's 15 years of him just flat out killing. The guy posted a PER above 20 from 1987 to 2003. He was the model for durability and consistency, not to mention efficiency. I'd take that prime on my team over the prime of any other great PG in history. Stockton was a ****ing rock.

shizzle09
06-01-2011, 12:50 PM
Someone justify the logic of putting Kidd before Big O

+1. wow

king4day
06-01-2011, 12:53 PM
It's easy to put players you see play now over the ones of the past.

Rentzias
06-01-2011, 12:54 PM
Ok first he didnt even mention Bob Cousy, or Gary Payton. Secondly, there is no way that Magic goes above Oscar Robinson
Cousy was a horrendous shooter even for his time, and Magic is ALWAYS above Oscar Robinson and also above Oscar Robertson, or at least arguable, not "no way." Robertson's a career 25-9-7 to Magic's 19-11-7.

John Walls Era
06-01-2011, 12:58 PM
TBF Bayless didn't really rank them. He just named 5 players.

nothappyinut
06-01-2011, 01:04 PM
Anyone that thinks kidd or Nash should be ahead of Stockton is on crack. Do you even watch basketball?? Stockton played 19 years in the league he leads all time assists all time steals. His per was over 20. He has the single season assist record. He has 142 offensive win shares 64 defensive win shares. He had over 1100 assists 5 times in a season. Okay let's compare Nash has never had over 900 assist in a single season had only 14 defensive win shares and 104 offensive win shares he has played in the league for 15 years. Jason Kidd has played in the league for 21 years has 70 defensive win shares and 59 offensive wins shares he has never had 900 assist in a single season. I mean it nice and all to like who you like but don't be foolish about it that's no different then skip himself

Backstabber
06-01-2011, 01:11 PM
Magic
Big O
Stockton
J Kidd
Zeke

ThornMo
06-01-2011, 01:23 PM
there should be no such thing as a top 5 list. they are impossible and piss everyone off

TopsyTurvy
06-01-2011, 01:32 PM
Skip is a moron. That list is terrible.

nickdymez
06-01-2011, 01:33 PM
The same people in this thread crying about oscar robinson should be on the list are the same people who dismissed Wilt chamberlin being better than Lebron because of era.. I guess anything goes for the "king"

Baller1
06-01-2011, 01:33 PM
As much as I love Gary Payton and he was always my favorite PG in the league and when he came to Boston I was so pumped up but, he's not ahead of Jason Kidd. No way.

Maybe not on the offensive end, but he's the greatest defensive PG of all time. I think that warrants a top 5 selection in itself.

Jaji
06-01-2011, 02:31 PM
Skip Bayless is an idiot.

mdm692
06-01-2011, 03:29 PM
Anyone that thinks kidd or Nash should be ahead of Stockton is on crack. Do you even watch basketball?? Stockton played 19 years in the league he leads all time assists all time steals. His per was over 20. He has the single season assist record. He has 142 offensive win shares 64 defensive win shares. He had over 1100 assists 5 times in a season. Okay let's compare Nash has never had over 900 assist in a single season had only 14 defensive win shares and 104 offensive win shares he has played in the league for 15 years. Jason Kidd has played in the league for 21 years has 70 defensive win shares and 59 offensive wins shares he has never had 900 assist in a single season. I mean it nice and all to like who you like but don't be foolish about it that's no different then skip himself
Then again nash didnt prime till he was in phx so he has only been at his max for 6years. Hopefully he plays at least 4 more years of elite bbal

Chronz
06-01-2011, 04:37 PM
Getting steals means your good at getting steals, it doesn't mean your a great defender by any means. Not saying Stockton wasn't a good defender, but steals isnt the reason he's good.

And defensively comparing him to Payton is crazy.

When you get steals the way he did it is. Stocktons natural athletic ability is underrated. One of the strangest physical specimens the league has ever had, he didnt jump out the gym or possess top flight speed but he had a strong core and quick reflexes. The mans knees were made of steel or something, he had Microfracture surgery and came back within 4 months, that is ****ing unheard of.

Paytons better because he could defend 2's with equal efficiency but Stockton was awesome defensively, though it wasnt as consistent as his offensive game it seems.

eugene
06-01-2011, 04:56 PM
Isaiah Thomas, Gary Payton???? where???

jamesdoakes403
06-01-2011, 05:19 PM
1. Magic
2. Isiah Thomas
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Jason Kidd
5. John Stockton

People forget Stockton had arguably one of the most dominate forces in the post for his entire career. Which lead to alot of assists.

Darrell Russell
06-01-2011, 05:36 PM
Steve nash puts up the most hollow stats i've seen since vince carter

Mc Lovin
06-01-2011, 05:42 PM
Ok first he didnt even mention Bob Cousy, or Gary Payton. Secondly, there is no way that Magic goes above Oscar Robinson

I'm a Celtics fan and let me tell you Cousy doesn't deserve to be anywhere near that list. I love the guy but so many better PG's in front of him.

bcc
06-01-2011, 05:48 PM
I think Skip forgot that Isiah beat Jordan, Magic, and Bird to win championships.

Isiah beat all 3 of them?
I guess in a week or so I'll be able to say Mario Chalmers beat Dirk Nowitzki as well.

How many rings does "The Blueprint" for all contemrporary PG's Bob Cousy have, by the way?

jamesdoakes403
06-01-2011, 06:22 PM
Isiah beat all 3 of them?
I guess in a week or so I'll be able to say Mario Chalmers beat Dirk Nowitzki as well.
How many rings does "The Blueprint" for all contemrporary PG's Bob Cousy have, by the way?

Not an accurate comparison, at all.

Gators123
06-01-2011, 06:27 PM
Isiah beat all 3 of them?
I guess in a week or so I'll be able to say Mario Chalmers beat Dirk Nowitzki as well.

How many rings does "The Blueprint" for all contemrporary PG's Bob Cousy have, by the way?

:laugh2: Small difference. Isiah was easily the best player on those Pistons.

Bravo95
06-01-2011, 06:58 PM
1. Magic
2. Isiah
3. Oscar
4. Kidd
5. Stockton

eugene
06-01-2011, 07:00 PM
1. Magic, 2. Oscar, 2. Stockton, 4. Isaiah, 4. Kidd, 6. Payton, 7. Nash

oballers
06-01-2011, 09:50 PM
1. Magic, 2. Oscar, 2. Stockton, 4. Isaiah, 4. Kidd, 6. Payton, 7. Nash

The numbering system is a bit flawed. But the way you ordered these guys in terms of who goes before whom is about right. However this list is a bit incomplete.

1. Magic
2. O
3. Stockton
4. Isaiah
5. Cousey
6. Kidd
7. Payton
8. Fat Lever
9. Nash
10. Clyde