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View Full Version : Ric Bucher sticks to his opinion of Rose being better than Lebron



JordansBulls
05-28-2011, 09:21 AM
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/38551




Phil (FL)


After what we have just seen, you can't seriously still be sticking by your Rose over LeBron to start a franchise thing?

Ric Bucher: Of course I am. LeBron James was the best player on the floor last night. He's not the best player in the league. The best player in the league is the undisputed leader of his team. At least in my book. You can compare what he did in this series vs. Rose, but the comparison can't be made. The Bulls didn't defend LeBron the way the Heat defended Rose. It's apples and oranges. I'm going to go with what one guy did the entire year vs. one series where Rose didn't have anything close to the same supporting cast in toughness or talent.

Bryan (Springdale, AR) [via mobile]

Colin Cowherd made u look foolish today in his critique of the term "volume shooter." what do you make of his critique and the 6% shooting percentage of Rose when he was guarded by Lebron in the series? I know these are hard for you to answer, but please try.

Ric Bucher: I'm a big fan of Colin's and believe he is fantastic at what he does. He knows a lot of things. One of them is not the NBA, other than on a cursory level.

Kevin (Chicago)

I demand you to back up your "Rose is the best player in the league" absurdity. Stop side-stepping and explain exactly why you think he's a better player than LeBron (and several others for that matter). Isn't a player judged mostly on how they perform in the playoffs?

Ric Bucher: One, because his basketball IQ is higher. He has a better grasp of when he needs to attack, from where, and when he can try to get his teammates going. Two, he never stops coming. LeBron is so good that he toys with the game at times. He doesn't always make the opposing defense work as hard as he could and he doesn't always work to create the best shot. That didn't cost him in this series and it's probably not going to cost him a ring this year -- that doesn't mean I have to co-sign playing that way. I have said, multiple times, that he's the most gifted player in the league. He's the most athletic, too. For me, the game is more than that.

Andrew (West Palm Beach)

I listen to you all the time on Dan Lebtard and Jorge Sedano's show. I hear how you call South FL people complainers an all. I think people down here would respect you more if you do the same thing yourself (complain) and two you have so much PRIDE that you can admit that LBJ is better than drose. I guess when the Heat win and LBJ is final mvp you will eat your words! Your really making yourself sound dumb and I know your not! Respectfully, Andrew

Ric Bucher: I appreciate you listening. The best I can do is go on those shows -- and others -- when I know that the hosts are just waiting to jump me for not anointing LeBron as the be-all, end-all. I'm OK with most of Florida holding a different opinion. Honestly, I'm OK with anyone holding a different opinion. For some reason, me having my opinion just outrages quite a few others. I'm OK with that, too.

Andrew (MA)


LeBron held Rose to 6% shooting while guarding him. I don't know as much about basketball as you, but I watch the league religiously and it seems like LeBron WANTED to go head to head with the guy who took his MVP crown and shut him down. Which he did. On both ends of the floor.

Ric Bucher: LeBron was great on Rose at the end of games. But when you can defend a guy knowing the rest of your team is ready to come off their men to help you because those other guys can score, it dramatically changes how you can defend. And yet I still saw DRose, when he recognized the help couldn't get there, score on LeBron or get great looks. Despite the difference in size.

Let's put it this way: LeBron guarding Rose should've meant there was somebody else who had a matchup that heavily favored the Bulls. And yet there wasn't. They had no choice but to continue to have Rose attack LeBron and score or create. Which he did to keep them in every game. Even though the Bulls didn't stay attached to anyone other than Korver when he came in. Give DRose one other matchup to work with that favored the Bulls and it's an entirely different story.

The other aspect of this LeBron-Rose debate that I find really delicious is all those, including my friend Dan LeBatard, or his co-host, suggesting that Rose "can't lose," as in he's either the hero or his supporting cast just isn't good enough. Didn't I hear that every year that LeBron was in Cleveland?

Dan (CA)

Ric, I've always respected you and your knowledge about the league, but it seems that no amount of facts put in front of you would change your opinion of Rose > Lebron. It's getting a little silly at this point.

Ric Bucher: When somebody puts a fact in front of me that takes in all the elements involved, I'll be more than happy to change my opinion. I have before. I don't have a dog in this fight. I just have what I see.

Terry (Boston)


Can you explain to me how the Heat defended Rose any differently than what LeBron faced from 2006-2010 in the playoffs? Or argue that Rose had inferior teammates to what LeBron had in those years? Or explain how LeBron was more efficient in those playoffs than Rose was this year?

Ric Bucher: What team that LeBron faced had the athleticism that the Heat have, particularly on the perimeter? What team did LeBron play for that did not have a single other player who could create his own shot or knock down an uncontested mid-range jumper?

Andrew (MA)


I understand your REASONS for saying Rose would be better for starting a franchise, but I think you're seriously discounting LeBron's value as a teammate. Doing what he and Dwyane have done, under this amount of scrutiny, was not easy. They have BOTH been accountable, focused, and determined. They are great leaders and teammates. Add in LeBrons unquestionably greater output on both ends of the floor (specifically his enormous advantage as a defender), and I don't see how you can see it any other way...

Ric Bucher: LeBron's value as a teammate, vs. DRose's, is one more reason why I'd take Rose over LeBron.

Chad (Iowa)


I think you are an excellent columnist, but I do have a hard time understanding why the best player has to be the "undisputed leader of his team". Does that mean guys like Brian Cardinal and Shane Battier are the best players in the league because they are cheerleaders?

Ric Bucher: The definition of a leader isn't a cheerleader or even a guy that everyone likes. It's a guy, for me, who sets the tone for everyone, who inspires them to play better and work harder than they otherwise would. I guarantee you this: LeBron, for all his immense talents and gifts, never has inspired anyone to work harder.

Dan (CA)


Ric, when you made the argument on Lebatard's show that Lebron had more help in Cleveland than Rose has in Chicago, you used Big Z as the example. Huh?

Ric Bucher: Big Z, at one point, was considered the second-best center in the Eastern Conference. Is there one big guy on the Bulls that is the second-best at his position?

Phil (Chicago)

I understand your argument that Rose is the definite leader of his team and in Miami it's split between Wade and Lebron, but when does the fact that Lebron is a more efficient scorer, better passer/rebounder/defender come into play?

Ric Bucher: Here's my question with the whole efficiency thing: If LeBron were efficient and the Heat (or Cavs) lost, does that make him the best player? Because his numbers say he is? Or is it about looking at exactly what a guy did to get his team a victory? Carlos Boozer was extraordinarily efficient in Game 4. Was he the best player on the Bulls? That's the slippery slope of this whole "efficiency" argument.



I disagree with his logic, but at least he makes some interesting points.

Gators123
05-28-2011, 09:25 AM
Bucher has been on Rose's nuts all year.

Young and Stupid
05-28-2011, 09:33 AM
He didn't make any "interesting points." Quite frankly, I'm embarrassed that Bucher is sticking to his ridiculous intuition.

Part of me thinks he's just doing it to receive attention, but maybe that's just wishful thinking.

BcEuAbRsS
05-28-2011, 09:39 AM
Maybe pound for pound?




But anybody who thinks Rose is better than Lebron prolly still believes in the tooth fairy...

allSUAVE
05-28-2011, 09:46 AM
He have no proof to back that stupid claim

Duddy
05-28-2011, 09:47 AM
Bucher is one moron seeking for attention. His arguments were horrible. A player must b judged by what he does on both sides of the court and what lbj did to rose defensively on this series was amazing. Add that to the fact that he's the most offesive threat in the league and a common sense should tell u who the best player in the league is. Tbh, I don't even know why people r taking his comments so serious, because he got what he wanted: to b talked about

Hawkeye15
05-28-2011, 09:49 AM
His logic is completely flawed. But at least he isn't a flip flopper, so I guess he has that going for him.

I understand a small percentage doesn't think LeBron is the best (which is ridiculous in its own right), but I can't fathom why anyone would think Rose is that player.

jp611
05-28-2011, 09:50 AM
Bucher, thats just dumb, Rose has never been better than Lebron

mttwlsn16
05-28-2011, 09:53 AM
bucher should be fired

Heater4life
05-28-2011, 10:01 AM
He was on the Dan LeBatard show yesterday on they spoke about the series and D rose. Ric Bucher was EXTREMELY DEFENSIVE. Dan was busting his nuts a bit, but Dan gave him D roses 4th quarter stats (which were pretty bad as stats go) and Bucher said he had a good game. Then dan said "what would he have to do to have a bad game? urinate himself?" And Ric was just fighting the whole him.

It was pretty bad, hes a BLATANT Lebron hater.

Heater4life
05-28-2011, 10:02 AM
If you want a link to hear the convo let me know.

Gators123
05-28-2011, 10:03 AM
He was on the Dan LeBatard show yesterday on they spoke about the series and D rose. Ric Bucher was EXTREMELY DEFENSIVE. Dan was busting his nuts a bit, but Dan gave him D roses 4th quarter stats (which were pretty bad as stats go) and Bucher said he had a good game. Then dan said "what what he have to do to have a bad game? urinate himslef?" And Ric was just fighting the whole him.

It was pretty bad, hes a BLATANT Lebron hater.

:laugh2:

jockrider
05-28-2011, 10:16 AM
same guy who got exposed by dwight. this dude is desperately seeking attention

mikealike305
05-28-2011, 10:21 AM
lol what a joke.
he didnt even make any good points?
"what do u have to say about Rose only shooting 6% vs Lebron?"
"um, well u know, Rose is the best player in the world"

Yanks All Day
05-28-2011, 10:30 AM
His biggest argument was that the best player in the league has to be the undisputed leader of the team. I'd like to know how he thinks Miami's leader is not LeBron James after two series of LeBron controlling the Heat's tempo and basically every 4th quarter while eliminating Rose from the end of every game. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Fmaranesi
05-28-2011, 10:32 AM
Ric has a big ego, it's that simple. He made a dubious claim that Rose was better then James when everyone and their mothers know that isn't even close to being true. Now maybe in 3-5 years when Rose is older/more savvy/gets more playoff games under his belt and some actual shooting help then we could be having this discussion but as of right now in their careers, James is far in front.

I still think Rose is a top 5 player and a top 3 player that I would want to start my franchise with as of now but he just isn't on Lebron's level, just yet.

gotoHcarolina52
05-28-2011, 10:51 AM
His biggest argument was that the best player in the league has to be the undisputed leader of the team. I'd like to know how he thinks Miami's leader is not LeBron James after two series of LeBron controlling the Heat's tempo and basically every 4th quarter while eliminating Rose from the end of every game. Just doesn't make sense to me.

True, but don't expect Bucher to see anything other than what he wants to see. What a proud, hard-headed douche.

FriedTofuz
05-28-2011, 10:53 AM
Ive been saying this since day one, rose is not the most valuable player in the nba. Rose doesnt gurantee a team to be a contender. He does not. Yes his team had the best record in the NBA, but that was also because of Thibeaus defensive system. he only scores 25 ppgs and has less than 8 asts, he isnt a great pg, hes more of a shoot first pg who has a long way to go. I feel like he only got MVP because he was on the best team in the nba and had a high ppg average. Lebron is clearly the mvp, he single handled won cleveland back to back 60 win seasons without any help. Rose, can never do that. If you had a choice to start a team, who would you chose? rose? or lebron? If you take rose, theres soemthign wrong with you. Rose will never be able to carry a team on his back and play both ends of the floor.

justinnum1
05-28-2011, 10:54 AM
bucher should be fired

+1

BigCityofDreams
05-28-2011, 10:56 AM
"Ric Bucher: Big Z, at one point, was considered the second-best center in the Eastern Conference"

WTF when was that

Htownballa1622
05-28-2011, 11:06 AM
Wow.

He was serious!?

His logic makes no sense.smh

Luv Da New Pack
05-28-2011, 11:19 AM
His biggest argument was that the best player in the league has to be the undisputed leader of the team. I'd like to know how he thinks Miami's leader is not LeBron James after two series of LeBron controlling the Heat's tempo and basically every 4th quarter while eliminating Rose from the end of every game. Just doesn't make sense to me.

How long has Lebron, by your assumption, been the "undisputed" leader on the Heat? Two series? Basically every 4th quarter? How long ago was it when the conversation was who "The Man" was in Miami? Hell, some feel Wade still is? How long ago was it when the so called "plan" was make sure that the ball goes through Wade in the 4th because he could actually close people out and be clutch?

I can understand what he's arguing but don't agree at some points. Personally I wouldn't even try to compare the current Heat to the Bulls in the argument because of the difference in surrounding talent level.

Now, to compare Lebrons Cavs days, that would be more equal. I don't understand how he could guarantee that Lebron didn't inspire others to work harder.

Personally, I believe that I saw Lebron do what Rose did (excel with par talent) and with a choice I would go with Lebron but it's not landslide like a lot of you are making it to be (like D. Rose is S. Marbury).

Luv Da New Pack
05-28-2011, 11:22 AM
"Ric Bucher: Big Z, at one point, was considered the second-best center in the Eastern Conference"

WTF when was that

It's true. You have to remember how weak the East was at Center. Remember, it was Howard and then.........

Shaq was playing like he did this last season.

ManRam
05-28-2011, 11:23 AM
Oh to be naive and desperate to back up a claim that doesn't look so good.

The only thing I think Rose may be better at is getting to the rim and running the fast break, but then again, LeBron is absolutely amazing at doing those too. I don't even think you can say he's more clutch considering how many huge games LeBron has taken over in his career.

I don't buy that his basketball IQ is higher. Rose jacking up three point shot after three point shot begs to differ. The undisputed leader of his team? I'm pretty sure LeBron has been just that and has taken a team with lesser players further than where Rose has ever taken his team.

Quite simply put, LeBron is a better rebounder, defender, passer, half court offense player, etc. etc. etc.

Reading that article really grinds my gears (thanks j-bay). Seriously, his arguments are laughable.

Hawkeye15
05-28-2011, 11:25 AM
LeBron is the undisputed leader of the Heat. Has been all year. Intelligent fans knew he would be the second "south beach" came out of his mouth. He is superior to Wade. Has been for years. So attempting to use the fact that he has another top 5 player on his roster to discredit him is b.s., especially when LeBron is the #1 guy on the team.

kjoke
05-28-2011, 11:25 AM
lol

ManRam
05-28-2011, 11:26 AM
It's true. You have to remember how weak the East was at Center. Remember, it was Howard and then.........

Shaq was playing like he did this last season.

Z was good, but for the bulk of LeBron's career, Z couldn't log more than 30 minutes a game in the playoffs and never averaged more than 13 points a game in a playoff year w/ LeBron. His numbers were really underwhelming.

We gotta stop acting like LeBron had great teams...he just didn't. Mo Williams and Z were his #2 options throughout his Cleveland career. That's a joke.

daleja424
05-28-2011, 11:37 AM
no comment

SteBO
05-28-2011, 11:39 AM
Z was good, but for the bulk of LeBron's career, Z couldn't log more than 30 minutes a game in the playoffs and never averaged more than 13 points a game in a playoff year w/ LeBron. His numbers were really underwhelming.

We gotta stop acting like LeBron had great teams...he just didn't. Mo Williams and Z were his #2 options throughout his Cleveland career. That's a joke.
This. I still don't get why people think LeBron had a good enough supporting cast in Cleveland. That's laughable to me.

BigCityofDreams
05-28-2011, 11:46 AM
It's true. You have to remember how weak the East was at Center. Remember, it was Howard and then.........

Shaq was playing like he did this last season.

I probably deleted that from my memory because real talk I don't remember how bad it was.

pd1dish
05-28-2011, 11:52 AM
i disagree with Bucher

and Bucher is a ****ing douche bag who just wants attention by making outrageous claims or releasing false "breaking news" reports

allSUAVE
05-28-2011, 12:13 PM
A 22 year old Lebron James lead the Cavs to the finals im just saying

Master Mind
05-28-2011, 12:17 PM
No need to address this, everyone seems to agree that Ric Bucher's parents are cousins...

MelkyNYY
05-28-2011, 12:24 PM
Lebron has always and will always be better than Derrick Rose.

ManRam
05-28-2011, 12:25 PM
Hey, at least in this chat he finally eased off the "Dwight to LA" bandwagon he tried to create. Probably because he knew no inside information and now that he heard Bynum is untouchable from other more credible reporters he's changing his opinion (guess).

There was some good from this :nod:

MrfadeawayJB
05-28-2011, 12:33 PM
LeBron>Rose---- Quit being so stubborn ric, makes you look dumb

sjoerdje
05-28-2011, 12:33 PM
lebron is the best in this game at the moment, nobody can touch him in that. rose isnt even close, wade, kobe, dirk are all in front of him. rose has a looong way to go before he gets to that group.

OnslaughtXX6
05-28-2011, 12:34 PM
No need to address this, everyone seems to agree that Ric Bucher's parents are cousins...

lmao

MrfadeawayJB
05-28-2011, 12:34 PM
No need to address this, everyone seems to agree that Ric Bucher's parents are cousins...

:laugh:

homestarunner93
05-28-2011, 12:42 PM
Bucher is clearly just trying get attention. Rose isn't even the best PG in the league, let alone the best player.

tredigs
05-28-2011, 12:46 PM
Oh Ric, please make a PSD account. This is low hanging fruit...

Rose is nowhere NEAR as good as a healthy Cp3, which we saw '-07-'09 and in the playoffs this year, and he honestly shouldn't even be in any discussion with Lebron. It's offensive, really.

hawkeyefootball
05-28-2011, 01:01 PM
Lebron is better and there is no argument. But Bucher does make a good point to counter all of the 'Rose is a chucker' or 'He's not a point guard because his assists are too low'. Rose was given the ball countless times with shot clock winding down after his teammates could not get open, leading to forced shots, bad three point attempts, etc. His supporting cast also failed to hit the open looks he did find for them consistently throughout the series.

Juggynuts
05-28-2011, 01:01 PM
Lebron has always and will always be better than Derrick Rose.

Fix...
Lebron IS and will ALWAYS be better than ANY Player in the NBA period.

Gators123
05-28-2011, 01:09 PM
This season...


Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 LeBron James 2010-11 26 79 3063 27.3 .594 .541 3.3 18.7 11.4 34.9 2.1 1.3 13.8 31.5 116 102 10.3 5.3 15.6 0.244
2 Derrick Rose 2010-11 22 81 3026 23.5 .550 .485 3.2 9.4 6.4 38.7 1.5 1.3 13.1 32.2 113 103 8.4 4.8 13.1 0.208


This years playoffs...



Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 LeBron James 2010-11 26 15 660 26.9 .569 .500 5.3 18.2 12.0 26.8 2.1 2.8 10.9 28.6 116 99 2.2 1.3 3.5 0.252
2 Derrick Rose 2010-11 22 16 649 22.6 .499 .430 3.6 9.2 6.3 40.0 1.9 1.3 11.9 35.2 107 103 1.3 0.9 2.2 0.165


Bucher is wrong again, Whats new?

Chronz
05-28-2011, 01:15 PM
Bucher has ALWAYS been the dumbest analyst around

AllBall
05-28-2011, 01:17 PM
Rich Bucher is the fat girl that believe she's not fat. He's in his own imaginary world.

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 01:17 PM
Lebron can suck my nut sack, Derrick Rose is better than Lebron and Wade combined.

I think if D.Rose was allowed to push off, travel, whine to the refs every time and get his way he might be seen as the best basketball player in the world too.

HAH

Master Mind
05-28-2011, 01:19 PM
Lebron can suck my nut sack, Derrick Rose is better than Lebron and Wade combined.

I think if D.Rose was allowed to push off, travel, whine to the refs every time and get his way he might be seen as the best basketball player in the world too.

HAH

Find a chair RZZZA...And quickly...it's gonna get ugly

:hide:

Gators123
05-28-2011, 01:19 PM
Lebron can suck my nut sack, Derrick Rose is better than Lebron and Wade combined.

I think if D.Rose was allowed to push off, travel, whine to the refs every time and get his way he might be seen as the best basketball player in the world too.

HAH

:laugh2: Thats sig worthy.

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 01:20 PM
who cares, people are allowed to say outrageous things on this forum every 2 minutes, now it's my turn.

hugepatsfan
05-28-2011, 01:20 PM
He had no proof before. So why would he change his opinion now? It's not like he was basing it on fact before...

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 01:23 PM
Luol Deng is better than Lebron, and Rose is better than Wade.

and Asik is better than Chris Bosh

LOOTERX9
05-28-2011, 01:24 PM
who cares, people are allowed to say outrageous things on this forum every 2 minutes, now it's my turn.

Like I said months ago, scoring PG's are never the best players in the NBA cause they don't win titles. They always get beat by the top wing players or bigs in playoffs. I can't put rose in my top 5 cause he can't win a title being the lead guy on a team

Heater4life
05-28-2011, 01:25 PM
Luol Deng is better than Lebron, and Rose is better than Wade.

and Asik is better than Chris Bosh

And fishing is better than playing in the finals.

ATX
05-28-2011, 01:28 PM
Lebron can suck my nut sack, Derrick Rose is better than Lebron and Wade combined.

I think if D.Rose was allowed to push off, travel, whine to the refs every time and get his way he might be seen as the best basketball player in the world too.

HAH

I've come to see that there is no low that you won't stoop to. I've never seen a sorer loser in all my time on PSD. Bait me all you want, but I'm not discussing this outside of this comment. Good day

Cano4prez
05-28-2011, 01:28 PM
Luol Deng is better than Lebron, and Rose is better than Wade.

and Asik is better than Chris Bosh

Yeah and that's why the Bulls won the season series 3-0 :clap:

ink
05-28-2011, 01:35 PM
Don't really care who is better but I agree with Bucher's point that Lebron is the most gifted and athletic and that there is more to the game than that. I don't think it's so absurd that he considers Rose to be the better player. I don't agree with him, but I don't think it's absurd logic.

The Flash
05-28-2011, 01:36 PM
[QUOTE=RZZZA;18055228]Lebron can suck my nut sack, Derrick Rose is better than Lebron and Wade combined.



You forgot to mention he is HUMBLE too

MelkyNYY
05-28-2011, 01:38 PM
Luol Deng is better than Lebron, and Rose is better than Wade.

and Asik is better than Chris Bosh

Crack really DOES kill brain cells.

MelkyNYY
05-28-2011, 01:39 PM
RZZZA leads the NBA forum in stupid comments.

Cano4prez
05-28-2011, 01:39 PM
Don't really care who is better but I agree with Bucher's point that Lebron is the most gifted and athletic and that there is more to the game than that. I don't think it's so absurd that he considers Rose to be the better player. I don't agree with him, but I don't think it's absurd logic.

It really is

LOOTERX9
05-28-2011, 01:45 PM
Sad part is that Rose is not better cause he is too short to be considered best player in NBA. But lebron is weak mentally and is a mega frontrunner. LBJ Has backup now with wade and bosh so now he can talk tough and play with no pressure on himself. Bucher is right to say that lbj is not mentally tough but wrong bout Rose being better player

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 01:47 PM
do you guys really think I'm serious? I'm joking, there's no need for 10 heat fans to reply to my comments. I'm obviously joking

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 01:47 PM
RZZZA leads the NBA forum in stupid comments.

all this forum is, is stupid comments. look around, this place is a cesspool.

you made a thread about moving D.Rose to SG...and have the nerve to say I make stupid comments

MelkyNYY
05-28-2011, 01:48 PM
all this forum is, is stupid comments. look around, this place is a cesspool.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=620246

JB0B0
05-28-2011, 01:49 PM
As someone mentioned above, Rose's height won't allow him to be the best.

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 01:50 PM
needed the refs to help you cHeat

MelkyNYY
05-28-2011, 01:51 PM
As someone mentioned above, Rose's height won't allow him to be the best.

His inability to hit jumpers and shots in the perimeter and play good defense will not allow him to be the best. Height is irrelevant.

MelkyNYY
05-28-2011, 01:51 PM
needed the refs to help you cHeat

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=620246

and

Boo Hoo

daleja424
05-28-2011, 01:53 PM
Don't really care who is better but I agree with Bucher's point that Lebron is the most gifted and athletic and that there is more to the game than that. I don't think it's so absurd that he considers Rose to be the better player. I don't agree with him, but I don't think it's absurd logic.

logic? where? do explain...

FlakeyFool
05-28-2011, 01:56 PM
Cowherd ripped him on his show. Give Cowherd credit he brings very valid points about Rose

Bullsfan22
05-28-2011, 01:56 PM
I think Lebron is a better overall player by far and it's not close but there's some things I think rose does better.

I think he's a better ball handler, shot blocker and overall shooter. even those are debatable but as far as my claim of him being the better overall shooter (free throws,3's and 2's) their stats are pretty similar but I feel it's only similar because of Rose's shot selection. Less is more when it comes to Rose and I believe he'll make those adjustments next season.

By the stats they are identical in their ability to block shots and that says a lot about Derrick Rose's shot blocking abilities.

My claim of him being a better ball handler is pretty easy to see when you take a step back and look at the circumstances of Rose not having no other noteworthy ball handler other than our back pg. Yes I know Lebron is a point forward and handles the ball a lot also but it's still no excuse to be to have a lower usage rate and a higher Tov% than a point guard in Rose's situation (lack of ball handlers).

With all that said comparing Rose to Lebron right now and coming to the conclusion that Rose is better is pretty idiotic. I will say that the people that say Lebron does everything better than Rose is pushing the limits of being oblivious to Rose's game probably out your personal dislikes to him.

As far as Ric his core statement is who he'd draft to start a franchise with and he said Rose. We all know Lebron is the better player but maybe he's valuing age? I have no clue, he pretty much flip flops into what point he's trying to get across.

I'm curious to see how many rational Bulls fans would trade Rose for Lebron straight up (If miami offered which wouldn't happen but still).

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 01:57 PM
Cowherd ripped him on his show. Give Cowherd credit he brings very valid points about Rose

next say how Skip Bayless is very smart

MelkyNYY
05-28-2011, 01:58 PM
I wouldn't trade Wade for Rose.

Bullsfan22
05-28-2011, 01:59 PM
RZZZA leads the NBA forum in stupid comments.

You would have to be 1b then your opinions/ideas are atrocious.

MelkyNYY
05-28-2011, 02:00 PM
You would have to be 1b then your opinions/ideas are atrocious.

I've been openly flamed for two of my ideas (by Bulls fans)

1. Rose is a two guard, and is currently an inefficient PG (which I'm not alone in)
2. CJ Watson's unit should have remained on the floor in Game 5. The Bulls were at +12 and Watson, at least in Game 5, was the better PG on the floor.

I don't understand what the heck you're on about.

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 02:07 PM
Melky saying my comments are stupid, I swear to God, it's like a fish complaining about being too wet.

There's maybe...10 posters on this forum who don't constantly say stupid things. 10 max.

Jahari Kavi
05-28-2011, 02:07 PM
Lol Ric Bucher is a funny guy...so rose makes better decisions because of his higher b ball IQ.....

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 02:08 PM
lol at rose having a better basketball iq.. good lord this is too dumb to read the whole thing

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 02:12 PM
This is kinda like that time Josh Smith said Rose is the best basketball player in the league. Just another great excuse for PSD NBA forum to have a Rose bashing thread. It's a favorite past time of this forum.

Bullsfan22
05-28-2011, 02:13 PM
I've been openly flamed for two of my ideas (by Bulls fans)

1. Rose is a two guard, and is currently an inefficient PG (which I'm not alone in)
2. CJ Watson's unit should have remained on the floor in Game 5. The Bulls were at +12 and Watson, at least in Game 5, was the better PG on the floor.

I don't understand what the heck you're on about.

nope I look past all you Bulls claims..When it comes to those you use a combination of your atrocious ideas and your hate. It's ok I mean you don't have to defend yourself nobody really takes you seriously anymore as far as bulls fans go. The people that's out to spite Rose every chance they get may, so at least you have a niche.

MelkyNYY
05-28-2011, 02:13 PM
Melky saying my comments are stupid, I swear to God, it's like a fish complaining about being too wet.

There's maybe...10 posters on this forum who don't constantly say stupid things. 10 max.

There is a difference between saying something "stupid" and disagreeing with someone.

Stupid:
Rose is better than Lebron James and D-Wade combined - RZZZA

Disagreement:
I think Rose's poor AST/TO ratio and his score first tendencies is better suited for the 2.

You can make an argument for one of those statements.

sammid21
05-28-2011, 02:14 PM
I think lbj is the best player in the league but I get what Bucher is saying. I think what he is saying is that put lbj on a good team without 1 top 2-3 player in the league and an all-star top 5 PF and the outcome of the series would've been different.

Sure lbj is the best player on the team but without wade waking up in game 3-4 in the 4th quarter, heat would've probably lost both games. lbj has 2 game changers with him, rose doesn't. And I think thats where Bucher is getting his opinion.

If the mavs win the title, I'd put dirk ahead of rose cuz he did it as the clear cut leader with a bunch of good role players.

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 02:14 PM
I was joking though, obviously. You seriously think CJ Watson is a better Pg than Derrick Rose.

ManRam
05-28-2011, 02:15 PM
I think Lebron is a better overall player by far and it's not close but there's some things I think rose does better.

I think he's a better ball handler, shot blocker and overall shooter. even those are debatable but as far as my claim of him being the better overall shooter (free throws,3's and 2's) their stats are pretty similar but I feel it's only similar because of Rose's shot selection. Less is more when it comes to Rose and I believe he'll make those adjustments next season.

By the stats they are identical in their ability to block shots and that says a lot about Derrick Rose's shot blocking abilities.

My claim of him being a better ball handler is pretty easy to see when you take a step back and look at the circumstances of Rose not having no other noteworthy ball handler other than our back pg. Yes I know Lebron is a point forward and handles the ball a lot also but it's still no excuse to be to have a lower usage rate and a higher Tov% than a point guard in Rose's situation (lack of ball handlers).

With all that said comparing Rose to Lebron right now and coming to the conclusion that Rose is better is pretty idiotic. I will say that the people that say Lebron does everything better than Rose is pushing the limits of being oblivious to Rose's game probably out your personal dislikes to him.

As far as Ric his core statement is who he'd draft to start a franchise with and he said Rose. We all know Lebron is the better player but maybe he's valuing age? I have no clue, he pretty much flip flops into what point he's trying to get across.

I'm curious to see how many rational Bulls fans would trade Rose for Lebron straight up (If miami offered which wouldn't happen but still).

I know you agree that LeBron is better...but still...a few things.

I'll agree about ball-handing. I'll disagree about shot blocking and shooting. Rose's shot blocking for a PG is more impressive than LeBron's for a SF, but that doesn't make him better at it. Rose is not a better shooter...especially not from three.

Even so, those three things are such minor parts of their games that it really doesn't matter. LeBron's edge in defense, rebounding, efficiency and even his passing (close) are all better, and so much better that it makes this a no contest. Blocking, ball-handling and shooting aren't what make LeBron or Rose great. It's the other things, and those other things LeBron is better at.

I actually think Rose is better at getting to the rim (even as great as LeBron is at it) and is better in transition (even as great as LeBron is at that too).

sammid21
05-28-2011, 02:16 PM
One more thing, the argument about rose being shutdown by lbj is weak. The dude is half a foot taller. Put a 7'4 athletic player (they'll never be one but pretend) on lbj and I bet he'd get shut down too.

MelkyNYY
05-28-2011, 02:17 PM
nope I look past all you Bulls claims..When it comes to those you use a combination of your atrocious ideas and your hate. It's ok I mean you don't have to defend yourself nobody really takes you seriously anymore as far as bulls fans go. The people that's out to spite Rose every chance they get may, so at least you have a niche.

The funny thing is, people only started to criticize me after I started to criticize Derrick Rose. Apparently, he's untouchable and if you criticize Rose you're pretty much criticizing Jesus Christ himself.

To you, my ideas are atrocious. You don't view Rose like I do. It's fair, but it doesn't make my ideas and worse than yours. I think Rose at the 2 with a solid defensive PG would work. It took Allen Iverson and Erick Snow to the NBA Finals. I don't understand how calling Rose an inefficient and incompetent PG is "spiting" him. He would be a prolific scoring 2 guard (D-Wade-esque) but I don't believe forcing him to become a PG is good for the Bulls. If he sheds his killer instinct he is no longer as effective of a player.

Working as a 2 would force him to focus on his own offensive game. He would grow as an offensive player. Clearly, we disagree. But to just call it blind Rose/Bulls hate because I disagree with Bulls fans is silly.

Jahari Kavi
05-28-2011, 02:18 PM
"Ric Bucher: Big Z, at one point, was considered the second-best center in the Eastern Conference"

WTF when was that

LOL that was the best

MelkyNYY
05-28-2011, 02:19 PM
One more thing, the argument about rose being shutdown by lbj is weak. The dude is half a foot taller. Put a 7'4 athletic player (they'll never be one but pretend) on lbj and I bet he'd get shut down too.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/blog.php?b=3616

Apparently, Bulls fans didn't think James could guard Rose.

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 02:20 PM
I think people already explained to you about a thousand times why moving Rose to SG is a horrible idea, you're so inl ove with your own opinions and ideas you can't admit being wrong, thats why you continue with this terrible notion that Rose should be moved to the 2

sammid21
05-28-2011, 02:21 PM
LOL that was the best

He actually was pretty good back then. He had a sweet jumper and hook shot, and decent post game. I think he made 2 all-star teams. You just can't believe it now cuz he is hot garbage now

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 02:22 PM
One more thing, the argument about rose being shutdown by lbj is weak. The dude is half a foot taller. Put a 7'4 athletic player (they'll never be one but pretend) on lbj and I bet he'd get shut down too.

lol... you cant be serious.... it doesnt matter if lebron was 10 feet tall. if he shut him down, he shut him down. rose shot 6% with lebron on him. thats beast mode and that is the definition of shut down. you cant deny something just because of someones physical limitations.. and wade stuffed deng on a shot even though hes half a foot smaller... do you think rose could do that to lebron? not...a...chance

MelkyNYY
05-28-2011, 02:25 PM
I think people already explained to you about a thousand times why moving Rose to SG is a horrible idea, you're so inl ove with your own opinions and ideas you can't admit being wrong, thats why you continue with this terrible notion that Rose should be moved to the 2

The wonderful thing about ideas and opinions is that you're not going to sway mine and i'm not going to sway yours through discussion. That's not what an intelligent discussion is about. It's about putting forth two competing views and holding an intelligent discussion.

Just because a bunch of Bulls homers see moving Rose to the 2 as a failure and refuse to entertain the notion does not mean that I'm "wrong". You have no idea that it's a "terrible notion" because you haven't seen it put to practice.

I've seen Rose at the 1, and I don't think it's that pretty to watch. He has the 48th best AST/TO ratio among guards in this league. That ratio is atrocious. It doesn't matter if he averages a good number of assists per/g if he commits turnovers. This inefficiency has a lot to do with Rose's developing court vision and his inability to make good passes.

With time, can he become a great PG? I guess. But I think he will lose his effectiveness as a player because he will never be CP3 or D-Will. He doesn't have that ability. He's a different player. His offensive game will suffer because he's going to focus so much on becoming a "PG". It's been a problem already.

There's been an ongoing debate all over the media: Are the Bulls better when Rose shoots a lot or when Rose shoots less? And the Bulls record is far better when he shoots less. This is eventually going to get into his head and his game is going to suffer.

I don't see the problem with D-Rose playing the 2 guard position and focusing on his scoring game. I really don't see how that's sacrilege. It's what D-Wade did. He came into the league as a PG but wasn't really a PG. So he was switched. Bulls fans sometimes just need to take of those red glasses and view the game objectively.

Illinirob83
05-28-2011, 02:26 PM
As a huge Bulls and DRose fan, this is just silliness. Bucher has made himself look like an *** throughout the season, I have lost some respect for him as a commentator. Ridiculous. James is CLEARLY the best player in the world and really it isn't even that close. Dirk is playing out of his mind right now just to insert himself into the LBJ convo.

sammid21
05-28-2011, 02:28 PM
lol... you cant be serious.... it doesnt matter if lebron was 10 feet tall. if he shut him down, he shut him down. rose shot 6% with lebron on him. thats beast mode and that is the definition of shut down. you cant deny something just because of someones physical limitations.. and wade stuffed deng on a shot even though hes half a foot smaller... do you think rose could do that to lebron? not...a...chance

Athletic ability lbj and rose are kind of equal. But lbj has the height edge so of coarse that's huge in the NBA otherwise Earl boykins would dominate lol. Wade has a crazy edge on deng in athleticism. Deng is stiff as hell and can't get up as high as rose wade or lbj, so he does have physical limitations

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 02:29 PM
Athletic ability lbj and rose are kind of equal. But lbj has the height edge so of coarse that's huge in the NBA otherwise Earl boykins would dominate lol. Wade has a crazy edge on dent in athleticism. Deng is stiff as hell and can't get up as high as rose wade or lbj, so he does have physical limitations

ok.... and???


lebron SHUT air rose down to the fullest extent.. this cannot be denied

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 02:29 PM
Melky, that was a good post even though I don't agree with it. The Bulls do not need to find problems where there are none. They don't need to fix what isn't broken. Rose's efficiency and assists % will get better simply by addressing the problems we know we have: finding legit options to put around Rose. finding that SG, finding those players around him that can actually catch a pass and finish the play.

Rose shoots too much now because he has to, but put those players around him and he'll shoot 20 times per game and be more efficient at it too.

Rose crumbled under too much pressure, thats all it was. fatigue and pressure. His jumpshot is not as bad as you saw it during the heat series. His 3 point shot is not as bad either. The dude just got fatigued and the pressure proved too much, thats all it is. Bulls fans have been watching this kid intently for years, we know what Rose is capable of. He's actually a good mid range shooter.

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 02:31 PM
ok.... and???


lebron SHUT air rose down to the fullest extent.. this cannot be denied

It can, actually. Lebron is not the only one to shut rose down. the Heat defense did it, as a team.

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 02:32 PM
It can, actually. Lebron is not the only one to shut rose down. the Heat defense did it, as a team.

but he shot 6% with lebron on him... that is FAR lower than his series average...

Jahari Kavi
05-28-2011, 02:33 PM
One more thing, the argument about rose being shutdown by lbj is weak. The dude is half a foot taller. Put a 7'4 athletic player (they'll never be one but pretend) on lbj and I bet he'd get shut down too.

that's not lebrons fault

sammid21
05-28-2011, 02:34 PM
ok.... and???


lebron SHUT air rose down to the fullest extent.. this cannot be denied

Right but it took the best player to shut down a guy 6 inches shorter and people are praising lbj like if he should take the defensive player of the year award from Howard. It logical to think that lbj could stop rose, not too impressive given the height difference but good strategy by spo or whoever decided on that match up

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 02:35 PM
but he shot 6% with lebron on him... that is FAR lower than his series average...

Lebron did a good job but the Heat built a wall around Derrick every time he tried to drive. Rose is good enough to take Lebron off the dribble, but what happened when he penetrated? Heat defense rotated over and built a wall around him. Their entire defense was geared towards stopping Derrick Rose, they called it "cutting the head off the snake"

it wasn't just Lebron

Jahari Kavi
05-28-2011, 02:35 PM
He actually was pretty good back then. He had a sweet jumper and hook shot, and decent post game. I think he made 2 all-star teams. You just can't believe it now cuz he is hot garbage now

yeah "back then" Lebron got the old injured Big Z....what year is Ric referring to exactly? Last year Perkins, Shaq, Noah, Howard, Lopez, etc > Big Z

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 02:36 PM
Right but it took the best player to shut down a guy 6 inches shorter and people are praising lbj like if he should take the defensive player of the year award from Howard. It logical to think that lbj could stop rose, not too impressive given the height difference but good strategy by spo or whoever decided on that match up

spo is an idiot for not having him on him more... bibby guarding rose? that was just sad. and no, he shouldnt take the award from howard, but he is EASILY the best defender in the nba at the 3 position... he is also the best scored from the 3 position.. and the best passer... and possibly the best rebounder as well.... in turn, the king>>>>> air rose

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 02:38 PM
yeah "back then" Lebron got the old injured Big Z....what year is Ric referring to exactly? Last year Perkins, Shaq, Noah, Howard, Lopez, etc > Big Z

lol... brendan haywood > Big Z... I'd say a lot of people's back up centers are better than Z... I'd rather have Chris Anderson that's for sure

Illinirob83
05-28-2011, 02:38 PM
The wonderful thing about ideas and opinions is that you're not going to sway mine and i'm not going to sway yours through discussion. That's not what an intelligent discussion is about. It's about putting forth two competing views and holding an intelligent discussion.

Just because a bunch of Bulls homers see moving Rose to the 2 as a failure and refuse to entertain the notion does not mean that I'm "wrong". You have no idea that it's a "terrible notion" because you haven't seen it put to practice.

I've seen Rose at the 1, and I don't think it's that pretty to watch. He has the 48th best AST/TO ratio among guards in this league. That ratio is atrocious. It doesn't matter if he averages a good number of assists per/g if he commits turnovers. This inefficiency has a lot to do with Rose's developing court vision and his inability to make good passes.

With time, can he become a great PG? I guess. But I think he will lose his effectiveness as a player because he will never be CP3 or D-Will. He doesn't have that ability. He's a different player. His offensive game will suffer because he's going to focus so much on becoming a "PG". It's been a problem already.

There's been an ongoing debate all over the media: Are the Bulls better when Rose shoots a lot or when Rose shoots less? And the Bulls record is far better when he shoots less. This is eventually going to get into his head and his game is going to suffer.

I don't see the problem with D-Rose playing the 2 guard position and focusing on his scoring game. I really don't see how that's sacrilege. It's what D-Wade did. He came into the league as a PG but wasn't really a PG. So he was switched. Bulls fans sometimes just need to take of those red glasses and view the game objectively.

So all objective analysis would come to the conclusion that Rose should move to the two guard? haha, no. Rose needs to have the ball in his hands and he needs to be the creator and the facilitator. He avg. 8 assists this season, and 8 assists in the post-season, that isn't in any way bad. And if he had better scorers around him that number would go up, and his shot load would go down.

People are stuck in mindset on what a "traditional pg" should be. How many traditional PG's have been the best player on their team and won a world championship in the last 35 years? There have been many great ones who went to the HOF, and who are going to the HOF, but none have led to their team to a title except for Isaiah (and he took on a huge chunk of the scoring load). Magic isn't a traditional PG because there is nothing traditional about being 6ft 9 and being able to do what he could do. He could play all five positions.

We are moving to a place with some transcendent players and pg's in this league. The position is slowly changing, and people can't comprehend totally what they are watching. Rose is a 1.5 already. He is a point who is so skilled he can also be a score first player because he is so hard to guard WITH THE BALL IN HIS HANDS. He has to have the ball in his hands, not running around trying to get open or being a catch/shoot, running around screens player. That would be the dumbest thing to ever do with such a talent. He can take a team, and lead a team without great scorers around him to a very high level because he can do both, score and distribute. He is never going to lead the league in asts, but why is that such an important thing? He is also going to be able to score more than most, if not all, other pg's and take over games down the stretch. That doesn't mean he doesn't need more help, that just makes him that much more dangerous once he does. Playing him at he two would be the dumbest thing for him, the bulls, and his development.

sammid21
05-28-2011, 02:38 PM
yeah "back then" Lebron got the old injured Big Z....what year is Ric referring to exactly? Last year Perkins, Shaq, Noah, Howard, Lopez, etc > Big Z

Wasn't he referring to big z when lbj was in Cleveland? I think lbj was with the caves when big z was an all-star. If he was referring to big z now then that's a dumb argument by Bucher

ManRam
05-28-2011, 02:38 PM
LeBron did by far the best job on him though. Rose wasn't getting by him at all. The second layer of defense didn't have to help half the time like it did when Bibby was guarding him. The fact that Rose didn't play well, even when Bibby was guarding him, was a testament to the team defense, but LeBron shut him down, period. He forced Rose to contested jumper after contested jumper. When that's happening, that's mainly some great one-on-one defense. The team rarely had to bail him out.

Bullsfan22
05-28-2011, 02:38 PM
I know you agree that LeBron is better...but still...a few things.

I'll agree about ball-handing. I'll disagree about shot blocking and shooting. Rose's shot blocking for a PG is more impressive than LeBron's for a SF, but that doesn't make him better at it. Rose is not a better shooter...especially not from three.

Even so, those three things are such minor parts of their games that it really doesn't matter. LeBron's edge in defense, rebounding, efficiency and even his passing (close) are all better, and so much better that it makes this a no contest. Blocking, ball-handling and shooting aren't what make LeBron or Rose great. It's the other things, and those other things LeBron is better at.

I actually think Rose is better at getting to the rim (even as great as LeBron is at it) and is better in transition (even as great as LeBron is at that too).

Yeah I can't really disagree with your assessment on shot blocking. I just come to that conclusion not because of size and their stats being Identical, but because of what kinds of shots both players block. I don't know if you can find the stats but after watching every Bulls game a lot of his blocks are from man to man defense (actually blocking jump shots). I could be wrong but I value that more than help defense blocks when it comes to the positions both players play.

As far as Rose vs Lebron shooting by the stats they're actually Identical from 3 with rose taking almost 1.5 more. And I know Rose takes a lot of bad 3's also on top of that it's hard to prove but I think Rose takes more 3's because at some points in the game the teams offense become stagnant and he has to force up crazy shots, 3's included to beat the shot clock. and he's obviously a better free throw shooter. Like I said I know it's debatable but I failed to give you my reasoning of why I think he's a better overall shooter in my first post.

As far as comparing what Rose does better than lebron..I know it's an uphill battle lol. Lebron is an amazing talent we could very well be comparing Rose to a top 3 greatest basketball player of all-time when it's all over.

MelkyNYY
05-28-2011, 02:39 PM
Right but it took the best player to shut down a guy 6 inches shorter and people are praising lbj like if he should take the defensive player of the year award from Howard. It logical to think that lbj could stop rose, not too impressive given the height difference but good strategy by spo or whoever decided on that match up

Again, no. It clearly wasn't "logical" and obvious that LBJ could shut down Wade. If that was the case, this post wouldn't have been made: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/blog.php?b=3616

The prevailing notion was that Rose is too fast and Bron failed at defense.

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 02:39 PM
LeBron did by far the best job on him though. Rose wasn't getting by him at all. The second layer of defense didn't have to help half the time like it did when Bibby was guarding him. The fact that Rose didn't play well, even when Bibby was guarding him, was a testament to the team defense, but LeBron shut him down, period. He forced Rose to contested jumper after contested jumper. When that's happening, that's mainly some great one-on-one defense. The team rarely had to bail him out.

Thank you!!! I mean come on people... Everyone said "Rose was waaaay too quick for Lebron" and that opinion got shut down with glorious play.. Denying that is just pure hatred to Lebron... Real recognizes real though...

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 02:41 PM
LeBron did by far the best job on him though. Rose wasn't getting by him at all. The second layer of defense didn't have to help half the time like it did when Bibby was guarding him. The fact that Rose didn't play well, even when Bibby was guarding him, was a testament to the team defense, but LeBron shut him down, period. He forced Rose to contested jumper after contested jumper. When that's happening, that's mainly some great one-on-one defense. The team rarely had to bail him out.

Lebron did a good job on defense, no doubt. but what struck me more was how many heat players were there to contest Rose when he beat his man off the dribble and penetrated, THATS where the real effective defense was shown.

of course, being a Bulls fan, I think Rose was fouled a lot during the times he penetrated and tried to go for a lay up but thats beside the point. Rose missed a ton of shots he usually makes against this Heat defense, and a lot of it had nothing at all to do with Lebron.

carruthers32
05-28-2011, 02:41 PM
isnt he from cleveland? lol

sammid21
05-28-2011, 02:41 PM
spo is an idiot for not having him on him more... bibby guarding rose? that was just sad. and no, he shouldnt take the award from howard, but he is EASILY the best defender in the nba at the 3 position... he is also the best scored from the 3 position.. and the best passer... and possibly the best rebounder as well.... in turn, the king>>>>> air rose

No doubt lbj is better than rose, I never argued that. But I wouldn't call him the king, he hasn't deserved that self appointed name, or air rose, never heard that one, not comparable to air Jordan

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 02:42 PM
Rose is definitely good enough to beat absolutely anyone off the dribble and get past them, Lebron is no exception. 1 person cannot guard Rose. if the Heat defense tried doing that, Rose would have beat them.

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 02:43 PM
No doubt lbj is better than rose, I never argued that. But I would call him the king, he hasn't deserved that self appointed name, or air rose, never heard that one, not comparable to air Jordan

Air Rose... For the wrong reasons... I'm referring to his jump shot, and it is a VERY fitting name.

ryang
05-28-2011, 02:44 PM
Lebron is better then Rose Wade is better then rose so what is the point of this thread?? No stop Lebron is better so there is no point

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 02:45 PM
his jump shot got broke towards the end of the season but he's actually a good jump shooter, check his 2010-2011 stats. If Derrick Rose sucks at shooting, so does D.Will, because their stats are similar from mid-range.

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 02:47 PM
his jump shot got broke towards the end of the season but he's actually a good jump shooter, check his 2010-2011 stats. If Derrick Rose sucks at shooting, so does D.Will, because their stats are similar from mid-range.

All I know is he's not good enough to shoot at the capacity that he does...

sammid21
05-28-2011, 02:47 PM
Air Rose... For the wrong reasons... I'm referring to his jump shot, and it is a VERY fitting name.

Then lbjs fitting name would be "ring chaser" it's fitting because he gave up having to be the man on his team. Heat would've lost if he didn't have wade, a proven franchise player to bail him out in games 3-4

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 02:48 PM
He's good enough, trust me. He just crumbled towards the end of the post season. Too tired and too much pressure and too good of defense from the Heat.

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 02:50 PM
Then lbjs fitting name would be "ring chaser" it's fitting because he gave up having to be the man on his team. Heat would've lost if he didn't have wade, a proven franchise player to bail him out in games 3-4

Stupid argument... No one can do it alone... Lebron's team in Cleveland was historically awful... It was either waste away the whole career and never win anything, or do something about it... So is that Ray Allen and KG's nickname too??? Is Karl Malone remembered for being a ring chaser? How bout Gary Payton??? Think before you post.

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 02:50 PM
people forget so easily, Derrick Rose was stroking it from mid range early and during the middle of the season. Somewhere along the line his jump shot got broke, maybe he lost confidence in it, maybe its a shooting slump or mental r physical fatigue...who knows.

but we've seen this kid kill teams with his mid range game

justinnum1
05-28-2011, 02:52 PM
The sad thing is bucher's chats probably get the most views.

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 02:53 PM
people forget so easily, Derrick Rose was stroking it from mid range early and during the middle of the season. Somewhere along the line his jump shot got broke, maybe he lost confidence in it, maybe its a shooting slump or mental r physical fatigue...who knows.

but we've seen this kid kill teams with his mid range game

In 3 or 4 years he will be straight up ridiculous... He'll work on it, it'll get better... Just like Bronski.

justinnum1
05-28-2011, 02:53 PM
people forget so easily, Derrick Rose was stroking it from mid range early and during the middle of the season. Somewhere along the line his jump shot got broke, maybe he lost confidence in it, maybe its a shooting slump or mental r physical fatigue...who knows.

but we've seen this kid kill teams with his mid range game

He got tired at the end of the season...his legs weren't with him in the miami series, most of his shots came up short. If thibs would have given him more rest things might have been different but rose was clearly tired at the end of games.

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 02:57 PM
I think not only was he physically tiried, but he looked mentally deflated too. He made uncharacteristic mistakes down the stretch of games that are just very un-D.Rose-like.

This kid was a closer for us all season long, we could count on him always to close out games. He also had a monster jump shot. Both those things were gone in the Heat series, it's clear to pretty much everyone that D.Rose was just not ready to step up on that level yet.

He was a first round wonder in his career prior to this, suddenly he was expected to beat Lebron and Wade and the #2 defense in the league all by himself. Too tall of an order for the kid

say what you want about Lebron, but the dude is a veteran and he's not gonna be beaten easily at all. And Wade is a proven champion.

Gators123
05-28-2011, 02:58 PM
isnt he from cleveland? lol

lol, that explains it.

sammid21
05-28-2011, 02:58 PM
Stupid argument... No one can do it alone... Lebron's team in Cleveland was historically awful... It was either waste away the whole career and never win anything, or do something about it... So is that Ray Allen and KG's nickname too??? Is Karl Malone remembered for being a ring chaser? How bout Gary Payton??? Think before you post.

Everyone in bold are ring chasers but at the end of their careers., you can add barkely, and pippen. Dirk is doing it as the man, Kobe did it with gasol but Kobe didnt have a top 2-3 player with him. Gasol is like bosh. He had shaq but shaq was there when Kobe was drafted. Duncan won as the man without a top 2-3 player along side him

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 02:59 PM
I think not only was he physically tiried, but he looked mentally deflated too. He made uncharacteristic mistakes down the stretch of games that are just very un-D.Rose-like.

This kid was a closer for us all season long, we could count on him always to close out games. He also had a monster jump shot. Both those things were gone in the Heat series, it's clear to pretty much everyone that D.Rose was just not ready to step up on that level yet.

He was a first round wonder in his career prior to this, suddenly he was expected to beat Lebron and Wade and the #2 defense in the league all by himself. Too tall of an order for the kid

You just can't do it all alone... Rose was all alone out there and it cost the Bulls a trip to the finals... This team reminded me of a better version of Lebron's Cavs.. They will make a big move to bring in a top tier star and if they don't, they will continue to head nowhere and get passed by the likes of the Knicks.

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 03:00 PM
Everyone in bold are ring chasers but at the end of their careers., you can add barkely, and pippen. Dirk is doing it as the man, Kobe did it with gasol but Kobe didnt have a top 2-3 player with him. Gasol is like bosh. He had shaq but shaq was there when Kobe was drafted. Duncan won as the man without a top 2-3 player along side him

Woah Woah Woah... :facepalm:

Bullsfan22
05-28-2011, 03:00 PM
LeBron did by far the best job on him though. Rose wasn't getting by him at all. The second layer of defense didn't have to help half the time like it did when Bibby was guarding him. The fact that Rose didn't play well, even when Bibby was guarding him, was a testament to the team defense, but LeBron shut him down, period. He forced Rose to contested jumper after contested jumper. When that's happening, that's mainly some great one-on-one defense. The team rarely had to bail him out.

I don't know about shut him down, he defended Rose well but I thought a couple plays was telling when Rose didn't get picks and Rose was able to attack off iso for the first time he was able to get to the lane easy actually, and scored 2 times in a row.

I think James is an excellent defender and defends Rose well but I think the sample size of him defending rose with the mixture of success is getting blown out of proportion by simple minded fans. Anyone who understands basketball or has had multiple guys guard you in one game knows it's adjustment and you have to attack a bibby and james completely different.

To shut someone down I believe you have to guard a player more than 20% of the game which Lebron didn't do that.

I don't mean to take anything from lebron's defensive effort on Rose because he probably guarded him better than anybody could for the stretches he was on him. I just find it crazy now people are gushing over lebron's defense after what he did against Rose. He's been a great on the ball defender before this and with his combination of size and speed it allows him to defend every position well besides center (in some cases).

sammid21
05-28-2011, 03:01 PM
Woah Woah Woah... :facepalm:

What? They are both soft, their D is somewhat decent and can hit long jumpers

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 03:01 PM
He got tired at the end of the season...his legs weren't with him in the miami series, most of his shots came up short. If thibs would have given him more rest things might have been different but rose was clearly tired at the end of games.

Maybe it really isn't smart to chase the #1 seed during the regular season.

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 03:03 PM
What? They are both soft, their D is somewhat decent and can hit long jumpers

In the playoffs of their back to back championships, Pau Gasol was the best big man throughout... And by far.. Pau is a much better post presence and defender.. Bosh is nowhere near Pau's level.

TheHighLife
05-28-2011, 03:05 PM
Rose is better than LeBrick.

sammid21
05-28-2011, 03:06 PM
In the playoffs of their back to back championships, Pau Gasol was the best big man throughout... And by far.. Pau is a much better post presence and defender.. Bosh is nowhere near Pau's level.

True, but pau is not a top 2-3 player, and this years pau (other than the beginning of the season) is comparable to bosh (in the playoffs)

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 03:06 PM
Rose is better than LeBrick.

Lol... That nickname worked about 5 years ago, before Lebron became the great shooter he is today. You must have not watched the series... Air Rose is nowhere near LeBeast

sammid21
05-28-2011, 03:09 PM
Lol... That nickname worked about 5 years ago, before Lebron became the great shooter he is today. You must have not watched the series... Air Rose is nowhere near LeBeast

LeRingChaser, is better than Drose

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 03:09 PM
Lol... That nickname worked about 5 years ago, before Lebron became the great shooter he is today. You must have not watched the series... Air Rose is nowhere near LeBeast

It's easy to make jumpshots when...the REFS HELP YOU

:D

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 03:10 PM
It's easy to make jumpshots when...the REFS HELP YOU

:D

LOL really guy?!? :rolleyes:

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 03:11 PM
thats my story and I'm stickin' to it.

the refs willed those jump shots in for Lebron, and when Rose shot them, the refs willed them to miss

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 03:12 PM
thats my story and I'm stickin' to it.

the refs willed those jump shots in for Lebron, and when Rose shot them, the refs willed them to miss

:speechless:

ryang
05-28-2011, 03:15 PM
It's easy to make jumpshots when...the REFS HELP YOU

:D

My these grapes taste sour

gotoHcarolina52
05-28-2011, 03:20 PM
It's easy to make jumpshots when...the REFS HELP YOU

:D

Rumor has it that David Stern recently got his hands on a device he can control from his New York office that increases the rim's circumference when LeBron takes a shot. Clearly, the same device allows Stern to shrink the rim's circumference when Rose shoots, hence his hilariously abysmal fourth quarter performances in the past few games.

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 03:22 PM
Rumor has it that David Stern recently got his hands on a device he can control from his New York office that increases the rim's circumference when LeBron takes a shot. Clearly, the same device allows Stern to shrink the rim's circumference when Rose shoots, hence his hilariously abysmal fourth quarter performances in the past few games.

sounds reasonable to me. Probably hired some guy in the stands to shine a laser pointer in derricks eyes in the 4th quarter so he couldn't see.

Dallas Tx4Life
05-28-2011, 03:23 PM
Rumor has it that David Stern recently got his hands on a device he can control from his New York office that increases the rim's circumference when LeBron takes a shot. Clearly, the same device allows Stern to shrink the rim's circumference when Rose shoots, hence his hilariously abysmal fourth quarter performances in the past few games.

LOL!!!!!!! :laugh:

Big Zo
05-28-2011, 03:28 PM
I guess he's just trying to be the white version of Jason Whitlock trying to stir **** up.

Crackadalic
05-28-2011, 03:30 PM
no he is not. there is just no argument that he is better

mikealike305
05-28-2011, 03:34 PM
Lol man look at all the mad bull fans

ryang
05-28-2011, 03:37 PM
i think its more then just bulls fans... whats the point even when we win they will come up with somethn else that makes no sence who cares... TUESDAY

ryang
05-28-2011, 03:38 PM
Everybody put it on nba channel...

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 03:41 PM
what is with the video quality, this is only 5 years ago but the quality of the video makes it look like it was 25 years ago

mikealike305
05-28-2011, 03:41 PM
Everybody put it on nba channel...

Haha nice

Jaji
05-28-2011, 03:42 PM
:facepalm:

ryang
05-28-2011, 03:43 PM
what is with the video quality, this is only 5 years ago but the quality of the video makes it look like it was 25 years ago

Definetly awful

KnicksR4Real
05-28-2011, 03:48 PM
dork. rose isnt even half as good.

gotoHcarolina52
05-28-2011, 03:54 PM
Hey Derrick, tune in to NBA TV right now. Wade is showing you how to be clutch at the free throw line.

ryang
05-28-2011, 03:59 PM
u dont remeber wades 2 misses do u

gotoHcarolina52
05-28-2011, 04:03 PM
u dont remeber wades 2 misses do u

Yeah, I do. But Wade hit two to put us up 93-90 and later another two for a 95-90 lead. Those extra two at the end would've been icing, but not needed. Rose, on the other hand, missed a free throw to tie the damn game.

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 04:08 PM
I remember wade going for a dunk and being stuffed by the rim. There was a lot of funny stuff like that in this series but Bulls fans didn't get a chance to gloat in it because we kept losing.


Yeah, I do. But Wade hit two to put us up 93-90 and later another two for a 95-90 lead. Those extra two at the end would've been icing, but not needed. Rose, on the other hand, missed a free throw to tie the damn game.

It wouldn't have mattered any way, even if he tied the game the refs would have called a foul on him for breathing too heavy on a Heat player.

:D

believe dat

championships
05-28-2011, 04:11 PM
LOL. And to think just yesterday some Bron fans were trying to make the case Lebron is better than Michael!!!.
He isn't even better than Rose!!!!
:laugh:

tredigs
05-28-2011, 04:55 PM
It is a pretty audacious comment to make when there is literally not one aspect of the game that Rose has the edge on 'Bron.

And to "stand by" (read: too proud to admit when he's wrong) his claims after one of the most dominating performances I've ever seen one player have over another? You just have to laugh and let it go. It's apparent that no amount of proof will sway some people's opinions, and that's fine. Can't exhaust yourself too much shining light on the willfully ignorant y'know.

Edit: Forgot my obligatory, "but he's still just 22 and a great player!".

ryang
05-28-2011, 05:10 PM
LOL. And to think just yesterday some Bron fans were trying to make the case Lebron is better than Michael!!!.
He isn't even better than Rose!!!!
:laugh:

rose = lebron??? come on bro give me a break.. and jamarcus russell was better then ryan leaf... pippen said lebron was better not miami but miami will say that lebron is better then rose along with anybody else who has a clue

SportsFanatic10
05-28-2011, 05:11 PM
ric bucher makes me laugh.

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 05:13 PM
Why do so many people even want to compare Rose and Lebron? Makes no sense to me, I think Rose would be flattered by the comparison alone.

Probably not a good idea to compare Rose to anyone who isn't in their 3rd year in the league, just like him. And it would help if they played the same position and had the same body type.

ryang
05-28-2011, 05:16 PM
Why do so many people even want to compare Rose and Lebron? Makes no sense to me, I think Rose would be flattered by the comparison alone.

Probably not a good idea to compare Rose to anyone who isn't in their 3rd year in the league, just like him. And it would help if they played the same position and had the same body type.

this ^...

ManRam
05-28-2011, 05:20 PM
It is a pretty audacious comment to make when there is literally not one aspect of the game that Rose has the edge on 'Bron.

And to "stand by" (read: too proud to admit when he's wrong) his claims after one of the most dominating performances I've ever seen one player have over another? You just have to laugh and let it go. It's apparent that no amount of proof will sway some people's opinions, and that's fine. Can't exhaust yourself too much shining light on the willfully ignorant y'know.

Edit: Forgot my obligatory, "but he's still just 22 and a great player!".

But, LeBron "gave up" one series and still averaged 27/9/7.

And he did the Decision, so clearly he's not a leader.

;)

So clearly, because of Rose's amazing mental and personality advantages, he's better.

TopsyTurvy
05-28-2011, 05:20 PM
At most, Bucher is criticizing Lebron - he certainly isn't praising Rose.

ryang
05-28-2011, 05:25 PM
chad henne is better then tom brady to... thats a joke by the way

PatsSoxKnicks
05-28-2011, 05:36 PM
Ric Bucher is an idiot. I have nothing else to say, nor do I need to say anything else.

wmudford
05-28-2011, 05:45 PM
Okay bucher. Let's say 09-10 Cavs played this years bulls. You really think Rose could have held lebron to 6% with all the defense focused on him? I think not, and lebrons teammates were worse

Kashmir13579
05-28-2011, 05:48 PM
LOL.


One, because his basketball IQ is higher. He has a better grasp of when he needs to attack, from where, and when he can try to get his teammates going. Two, he never stops coming. LeBron is so good that he toys with the game at times. He doesn't always make the opposing defense work as hard as he could and he doesn't always work to create the best shot. That didn't cost him in this series and it's probably not going to cost him a ring this year -- that doesn't mean I have to co-sign playing that way. I have said, multiple times, that he's the most gifted player in the league. He's the most athletic, too. For me, the game is more than that.
This guy is a complete moron. Ok, its a serious stretch that his I.Q is more than Lebron's; but more than Dirk, Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, Deron Williams, Paul Pierce, Rondo, Joe Johnson, Ray Allen, Kevin Love, or any number of high profile/high I.Q players is completely laughable.

And i guess it doesn't matter that Deron and Kevin missed the playoffs by his logic.... playoff performances don't matter to him apparently.

Kashmir13579
05-28-2011, 05:50 PM
Ric Bucher is an idiot. I have nothing else to say, nor do I need to say anything else.

i should've just left my response like this.

Kashmir13579
05-28-2011, 05:51 PM
Why do so many people even want to compare Rose and Lebron? Makes no sense to me, I think Rose would be flattered by the comparison alone.

Probably not a good idea to compare Rose to anyone who isn't in their 3rd year in the league, just like him. And it would help if they played the same position and had the same body type.

Why don't you ask your own fanbase?

rickshaw
05-28-2011, 06:00 PM
"What team did LeBron play for that did not have a single other player who could create his own shot or knock down an uncontested mid-range jumper?"

mo williams? larry hughes? whos he talking about

0nekhmer
05-28-2011, 06:02 PM
i only agree with Chicago only having Rose. BUT rose's PG ability was brutally exposed during the playoffs. Where teams doubled him, he would never really make the unexpected good pass. (could be the reason why Boozer, a back to basket player did not play so well).
You can't argue the fact that Lebron LOCKED Rose down. I couldn't believe Lebron's quickness compared to Rose.

Master Mind
05-28-2011, 06:12 PM
Anything to drop a duece on Bron I guess. As a sports journalist and so on, you shouldn't let personal disfavor cloud your judgment. Granted it's his opinion but when your opinion is backed by weak argument and points, it comes off as personal. Bucher pretty much stuck his foot in his mouth.

Jonathan2323
05-28-2011, 06:49 PM
Congrats to Ric Bucher he looks like the biggest moron for saying Rose is better than LeBron. Rose doesn't do anything better than LeBron on the court.

Redbull
05-28-2011, 09:02 PM
Lebron>Rose end of story, Yeah Rose might be a better teammate/hard worker but he is not a better BASKETBALL PLAYER than Lebron.

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-28-2011, 09:25 PM
Bucher is trying to get himself fired. He lost all credibility when he guaranteed Kobe played his last game with the Lakers in 07. And now this!?!? There is not one good reason to make that statement unless he has a hidden agenda. But with that comment, I dont think he is trying to hide it. He hates Lebron

Raph12
05-28-2011, 09:27 PM
Like I said, this guy is just an idiot, straight up.

Big Game Son
05-28-2011, 09:37 PM
This comparison stuff is so ridiculous.

Bishnoff
05-28-2011, 10:03 PM
Bucher is on better crack than Pippen.

FriedTofuz
05-28-2011, 11:23 PM
Luol Deng is better than Lebron, and Rose is better than Wade.

and Asik is better than Chris Bosh

yet, the bulls lost the series 4-1? .


Crack really DOES kill brain cells.
It really does.


needed the refs to help you cHeat

We can all make excuses :facepalm:


I wouldn't trade Wade for Rose.

I wouldnt either. Wade affects both ends of the floor. Rose had one very good season, but i wouldnt even take him over dwade.


Rose is better than LeBrick.

How so? Lebron is the better scorer, rebounder, defender, and passer. Stat wise, and in games hes clearly better.


LeRingChaser, is better than Drose

Yes he is.


It's easy to make jumpshots when...the REFS HELP YOU

:D

Excuses :facepalm:


thats my story and I'm stickin' to it.

the refs willed those jump shots in for Lebron, and when Rose shot them, the refs willed them to miss

Yeah because refs determine jump shots ? if your going to make excuses, at least sound reasonable and say rose didnt get his calls, or lebron and wade got too many calls..


Rumor has it that David Stern recently got his hands on a device he can control from his New York office that increases the rim's circumference when LeBron takes a shot. Clearly, the same device allows Stern to shrink the rim's circumference when Rose shoots, hence his hilariously abysmal fourth quarter performances in the past few games.

wow this is hilarious :clap:


sounds reasonable to me. Probably hired some guy in the stands to shine a laser pointer in derricks eyes in the 4th quarter so he couldn't see.

No, derrick rose just doesnt have as good court vision as lebron.

beasted86
05-28-2011, 11:36 PM
Don't really care who is better but I agree with Bucher's point that Lebron is the most gifted and athletic and that there is more to the game than that. I don't think it's so absurd that he considers Rose to be the better player. I don't agree with him, but I don't think it's absurd logic.

Predictable... as you've been an adamant Heat hater most of the season.

You were the one who went on and on for pages at length at the beginning of the season saying the team was fundamentally flawed and wouldn't go anywhere, and they should have never signed LeBron and used the money on better role players.

beasted86
05-28-2011, 11:40 PM
why do so many people even want to compare rose and lebron? Makes no sense to me, i think rose would be flattered by the comparison alone.

Probably not a good idea to compare rose to anyone who isn't in their 3rd year in the league, just like him. And it would help if they played the same position and had the same body type.


why don't you ask your own fanbase?
+1

RZZZA
05-28-2011, 11:52 PM
Yeah because refs determine jump shots ? if your going to make excuses, at least sound reasonable

Dude, you're telling me to be reasonable when I'm CLEARLY joking? it couldn't be any more clear. What's wrong with you?

wjmoffatt
05-28-2011, 11:57 PM
I'm sorry, but did Lebron win an MVP at the age of 22? No. Did Lebron have to play a team like the Heat have, again, No! So, can we say lets wait four years and see who truly is better. I remember when James went to the Finals against the Spurs that he couldn't hit squat from outside. Bowan played 4-5 feet off him the whole series daring him to shoot the jumper. So, again if you compare the two at the age of 22, by doing the eye test, you could come to the conclusion that Rose is a better player to start a franchise with. Other than that, I would start a franchise with either Durant or Westbrook over him.

ryang
05-29-2011, 12:00 AM
pointless thread... today LEBRON is better then rose... anything else poss to say?

Khri
05-29-2011, 12:10 AM
Dude, you're telling me to be reasonable when I'm CLEARLY joking? it couldn't be any more clear. What's wrong with you?

I don't know why people take this guy seriously, he's always crying and making excuses.

ryang
05-29-2011, 12:12 AM
Some bulls fans are just to upset that's why you shouldnt go on this site after a loss like that.. Whats the point

RZZZA
05-29-2011, 12:21 AM
I really don't care what people like Khri say about me, I hate him any way.

I'd put him on my ignore list except I don't care enough about him to even do that

RZZZA
05-29-2011, 12:23 AM
There's really like only 5 good posters on this forum. Stebo, marlinsfan, a few others...

Arch Stanton
05-29-2011, 12:32 AM
It seems like Heat fans and LeBron apologists depreciate anything said by an analyst that doesn't fit with their image of LeBron. I actually think LeBron is better than Rose but I do think that Bucher makes some good points. And I'm tired of hearing LeBron didn't have any help in Cleveland. They won 66 games. And LeBron got to pick and chose his teammates so he wanted those guys there. I vote all LeBron threads/Cleveland Bashing Threads get moved to the Heat fan page.

D Roses Bulls
05-29-2011, 12:48 AM
here's how I see it. most people were comparing the last two years cavs teams with lebron with the bulls team of this year. how far did lebron get with those teams? one year he got to the ECF. the same as Rose this year. the cavs team was overrated, i said it for the last two years when everyone else on here was calling me crazy, but I was right, but some of you guys make it seem as if they just plain sucked. they didn't suck, but they weren't as good as most expected them to be. I dont think rose gets the credit he deserves on this site. he is 22 years old. his team just won 62 games, won the conference and made it to the ecf. that is quite a achievement for a team most of you didnt even picking finishing ion the top 3. yes, he performed badly in the ECF, but what you have to remember is he is only 22 years old. when lebron was 22 he was getting knocked out of the first round. when he went to the finals in 2007 was probably the eastern conferences weakest year in in 3-4 years. I mean he has already surpassed what lebron did in his 3rd year. I'm not saying he is better, but give the guy a break guys. is wade was p[laying for chicago right now, we wouldn't even e talking about lebron. rose is the offense of the bulls. he has no one pretty much but himself. ucher isnt really being far off on his opinion. i mean if you switched leron and rose. im sure miami would still be in the finals. i mean if lebron guarded wade lets say like he did rose, who would stop rose from going to the basket or bosh from scoring?

anyways I just find it funny people are really getting mad about all of this. it's an opinion just like stupid ole hollingers opinion. he isnt better then lebron, but bucher saying he would start a franchise with rose over lebron isnt really a bad opinion like ive heard him say many of times.

ryang
05-29-2011, 01:18 AM
It seems like Heat fans and LeBron apologists depreciate anything said by an analyst that doesn't fit with their image of LeBron. I actually think LeBron is better than Rose but I do think that Bucher makes some good points. And I'm tired of hearing LeBron didn't have any help in Cleveland. They won 66 games. And LeBron got to pick and chose his teammates so he wanted those guys there. I vote all LeBron threads/Cleveland Bashing Threads get moved to the Heat fan page.

u think its heat fans page that needs this crap?? look at the nba forum its all about us and everyone who starts a thread are not heat fans... (we got the finals to worry about not what our team did last july

Chronz
05-29-2011, 01:42 AM
Someone got the time to correct feenys contextual errors, I would but I don't think I can do it justice from my phone.

TylerSL
05-29-2011, 02:50 AM
Well thats his opinoin. He is being either a hater or a homer (Idk if he is from Chicago or not). He has a very flawed opinoin, and I cant think of ANYBODY who would find what he says credible after watching the ECF.

ryang
05-29-2011, 02:53 AM
who??

sventhedog
05-29-2011, 03:15 AM
that's his opinion and we have to respect that. lebron did have bosh while rose had boozer and so the heat are in the finals and the bulls are not. end of story.

ChitownBears22
05-29-2011, 12:43 PM
I am sick of hearing this 22 years old arguement and that is why people want him over LeBron. First LeBron is only 26. Because of his size and athleticism he will be a factor in the league for another 9-10 years with maybe 2-3 years after that playing a Garnett type role. Rose on the other hand relies on speed to get to the hoop. Other players that relied on speed like Iverson had 7-8 productive years in the NBA. Rose like Iverson relied on speed and attacking the basket. Neither have great passing skills like a true point guard (Paul, Nash, Kidd, and Williams) or a great jump shot. Those are things you can work on but those are abilities you don't learn. You can't learn court vision or basketball IQ.

Then we can just look at the concept that PG's don't win championships. PG's need to be surrounded by talent and shooters to prevail. Rose this year did have good shooters contrary to belief that got him this far. Deng shot 42% through the playoffs, Boozer 43%, 41%, Korver shot 43% from 3 pt. I am sorry but how much more can you expect in the playoffs from any player. Really from a playoff standpoint you can't play any better. The team the struggled against (Miami) didn't really stop Boozer and Deng. They slowed down Rose, who was unable to drive and open up shooting for his other shooters. What that tells me is that, he is unable to be a real PG. Nash, Paul, Kidd have all played against premier defenders and still open up shots for their team. Rose Can't /argument.

Lebron on the other hand is a hybrid player that can play 1-5 position but prevails at the 2-4. He creates instant matchup problems against any team. Deng who guarded LeBron throughout the series played him very well, but when he couldn't shoot he was able to draw the double team and pass to an open player. Rose couldn't do this because he lacks the passing skills.

I am sorry but if I am building a team I am thinking Championship. If you pick a player like Rose you are going to struggle against defensive teams (and the playoffs are full of defensive teams). LeBron on the other hand will always give you a chance. By himself he made it to the Finals. You will always need another player to get you over the hump from that point, no one can do it alone. Rose road the coattails of great defenders and good shooters to the ECF and then proved to everyone that he is not an elite player. When you shoot 35% through a series that is a huge sign that the player isn't a good decision maker.

Then you can throw in that Rose missed not one but two game winning FREE THROWS. Real clutch players and difference makers make those. Jordan probably laughed his arse off watching Rose choke. Especially since fans think he can make the impact Jordan did Championship wise.

LeBron >>>>>> Rose

naps
05-29-2011, 03:25 PM
A 22 year old Lebron James lead the Cavs to the finals im just saying

And with one of the greatest performances in playoff history. That pistons vs cavs series :drool:

I have never seen a stupider claim than this. Probably the worst claim from an analyst in pro-sports history.

naps
05-29-2011, 03:37 PM
here's how I see it. most people were comparing the last two years cavs teams with lebron with the bulls team of this year. how far did lebron get with those teams? one year he got to the ECF. the same as Rose this year. the cavs team was overrated, i said it for the last two years when everyone else on here was calling me crazy, but I was right, but some of you guys make it seem as if they just plain sucked. they didn't suck, but they weren't as good as most expected them to be. I dont think rose gets the credit he deserves on this site. he is 22 years old. his team just won 62 games, won the conference and made it to the ecf. that is quite a achievement for a team most of you didnt even picking finishing ion the top 3. yes, he performed badly in the ECF, but what you have to remember is he is only 22 years old. when lebron was 22 he was getting knocked out of the first round. when he went to the finals in 2007 was probably the eastern conferences weakest year in in 3-4 years. I mean he has already surpassed what lebron did in his 3rd year. I'm not saying he is better, but give the guy a break guys. is wade was p[laying for chicago right now, we wouldn't even e talking about lebron. rose is the offense of the bulls. he has no one pretty much but himself. ucher isnt really being far off on his opinion. i mean if you switched leron and rose. im sure miami would still be in the finals. i mean if lebron guarded wade lets say like he did rose, who would stop rose from going to the basket or bosh from scoring?

anyways I just find it funny people are really getting mad about all of this. it's an opinion just like stupid ole hollingers opinion. he isnt better then lebron, but bucher saying he would start a franchise with rose over lebron isnt really a bad opinion like ive heard him say many of times.

Ask the GMs who would they start their franchise with. See how many choose Rose over LeBron, or even over Dwight. Anyone can have his opinions but that doesn't mean we can't say he's stupid.

jockrider
05-29-2011, 03:54 PM
Ask the GMs who would they start their franchise with. See how many choose Rose over LeBron, or even over Dwight. Anyone can have his opinions but that doesn't mean we can't say he's stupid.

i'd choose rose not because he's better because he's not even close and he will probably never be but with rose i feel like he'd stay with my team as long as we're competitive. Lebron it's championship or he's gone.

jockrider
05-29-2011, 03:57 PM
here's how I see it. most people were comparing the last two years cavs teams with lebron with the bulls team of this year. how far did lebron get with those teams? one year he got to the ECF. the same as Rose this year. the cavs team was overrated, i said it for the last two years when everyone else on here was calling me crazy, but I was right, but some of you guys make it seem as if they just plain sucked. they didn't suck, but they weren't as good as most expected them to be. I dont think rose gets the credit he deserves on this site. he is 22 years old. his team just won 62 games, won the conference and made it to the ecf. that is quite a achievement for a team most of you didnt even picking finishing ion the top 3. yes, he performed badly in the ECF, but what you have to remember is he is only 22 years old. when lebron was 22 he was getting knocked out of the first round. when he went to the finals in 2007 was probably the eastern conferences weakest year in in 3-4 years. I mean he has already surpassed what lebron did in his 3rd year. I'm not saying he is better, but give the guy a break guys. is wade was p[laying for chicago right now, we wouldn't even e talking about lebron. rose is the offense of the bulls. he has no one pretty much but himself. ucher isnt really being far off on his opinion. i mean if you switched leron and rose. im sure miami would still be in the finals. i mean if lebron guarded wade lets say like he did rose, who would stop rose from going to the basket or bosh from scoring?

anyways I just find it funny people are really getting mad about all of this. it's an opinion just like stupid ole hollingers opinion. he isnt better then lebron, but bucher saying he would start a franchise with rose over lebron isnt really a bad opinion like ive heard him say many of times.

Lebron at 22 was better than rose now. rose has a much better team noah/boozer/asik/taj/deng/ give that to bron he would have won it awhile ago.

Sixerlover
05-29-2011, 04:03 PM
-----> Straws


-----> Bucher grasping at them

naps
05-29-2011, 04:14 PM
i'd choose rose not because he's better because he's not even close and he will probably never be but with rose i feel like he'd stay with my team as long as we're competitive. Lebron it's championship or he's gone.

Yeah, so you will choose Dirk ahead of Shaq :rolleyes:
If you really think Shaq's move from Orlando to LA was bad for him then you need to take a break from basketball discussion.

jockrider
05-29-2011, 04:22 PM
Yeah, so you will choose Dirk ahead of Shaq :rolleyes:
If you really think Shaq's move from Orlando to LA was bad for him then you need to take a break from basketball discussion.

did i say it was bad for him? i wouldn't want a player knowing he'd leave my team. thanks for rolling your eyes at my preference:facepalm:

Hawkize31
05-29-2011, 04:23 PM
I'm sorry, but did Lebron win an MVP at the age of 22? No. Did Lebron have to play a team like the Heat have, again, No! So, can we say lets wait four years and see who truly is better. I remember when James went to the Finals against the Spurs that he couldn't hit squat from outside. Bowan played 4-5 feet off him the whole series daring him to shoot the jumper. So, again if you compare the two at the age of 22, by doing the eye test, you could come to the conclusion that Rose is a better player to start a franchise with. Other than that, I would start a franchise with either Durant or Westbrook over him.

The argument in bold is interesting to me. You are saying Lebron had an advantage since he didn't have to play a team like the Heat, which is a Lebron led team. So to take that a bit further, you are saying Lebron had it easier since he didn't have to play against himself. While I think thats true, its pretty circular reasoning.

It would be like saying Michael Jordan wasn't the best player in the 90s because he never had to face the 90s Bulls.