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JoeyBoy718
05-28-2011, 01:51 AM
Which players had the 10 greatest careers since Jordan left the Bulls (I don't count his years in Washington)? Meaning everything that person did while Jordan was still playing can not be counted. Pretend that the NBA started the year after Jordan left, and all the stats and legacies started then too. Here is my list:

1. Shaq. Even though his years while Jordan was still playing cannot be counted, he still had some of the most dominant years, and he won 4 rings, 3 as the main guy.

2. Kobe. His whole career pretty much came after Jordan left. He has the most rings out of anybody, 5, even though 3 of them were playing second fiddle to Shaq.

3. Duncan. I look at him as the Tom Brady of the NBA. Great player, but would he have had the same success if he wasn't brought up in such a great environment, excellent organization, and one of the greatest coaches of all time?

4. LeBron. There have been many "next Jordans" since he retired, but LeBron has dominated the league for the past 8 years, and he is finally beginning to have postseason success.

5. Garnett. His career will probably go overlooked because he didn't have the championship success as the other two great bigs of his era, Shaq and Duncan. But when he was good, he was one of the most multi talented players to ever play the game. Did get a ring with the Celtics, but he wasn't the same player he was earlier in his career.

6. Wade. Has been overlooked most of his career, but he has been in the discussion for best player in the NBA with LeBron and Kobe for the past few years now. Had one of the most impressive postseason runs when he won a championship with Shaq, but Wade was the main guy on that team.

7. Dirk. Probably the best European player ever to play in the NBA. He is one of the most unique talents ever to play the game, his teams are always in contention for a championship, and he is always in the discussion for MVP.

8. Iverson. He was the most dominant little guy in a time when the league was run by bigs with Shaq, Duncan and Garnett. Never had the postseason success, and always had issues with his teammates and coaches, but was one of the most talented players ever to play when he was in his prime.

9. Kidd. The ultimate team player and team leader. His teams would dominate the Eastern Conference year in year out. He also had a great career while Jordan was playing which cannot be counted. Was never surrounded by much talent but always brought the best out of his teammates.

10. Nash. A surprise multiple time MVP. He had a slightly above average career his years with Dallas but then exploded into a superstar when he went to Phoenix. Probably the last throwback style point guard the NBA will ever see. If his whole career was like it was with Phoenix, he would probably challenge for the all time assist record. He also has one of the purest shots in the game.

Iron24th
05-28-2011, 01:57 AM
Take Ivy out of this and I agree for the most part.

210Don
05-28-2011, 02:00 AM
smh @ what was put about duncan you can say that about any player....
also timmy never had a second superstar
according to this shaq had the 2nd best player after jordan and somehow only won 3 chips kinda sad huh two top 5 players all time only won three chips together

JoeyBoy718
05-28-2011, 02:01 AM
smh @ what was put about duncan you can say that about any player....

I said he was Tom Brady. That's a bad thing? I'm saying that if you put Garnett on the Spurs and Duncan on the TWolves, does Garnett win 4 rings and Duncan none? That's not saying neither are great.

marlinsfan24
05-28-2011, 02:03 AM
I'd go
1.Kobe
2.Shaq
3.Duncan
4.Lebron
5.KG
6.Wade
7.Dirk
8.Nash
9.Iverson
10.McGrady (when he was healthy)

210Don
05-28-2011, 02:04 AM
I said he was Tom Brady. That's a bad thing? I'm saying that if you put Garnett on the Spurs and Duncan on the TWolves, does Garnett win 4 rings and Duncan none? That's not saying neither are great.
smh you can ask that about any player..... your argument is a fail.
stop trying to discredit timmy
what if jordan, kobe and shaq didnt have phil what if the lakers front office didnt pull a great trade and get gasol.... what if horry doesn't hit that 3 vs sactown.... what ifs arent a good enough argument come with some facts. compare there play styles not what ifs..

JoeyBoy718
05-28-2011, 02:05 AM
smh @ what was put about duncan you can say that about any player....
also timmy never had a second superstar
according to this shaq had the 2nd best player after jordan and somehow only won 3 chips kinda sad huh two top 5 players all time only won three chips together

I based my ratings off of best careers. If I was going to rate it as best players, I'd probably do: 1. LeBron, 2. Shaq, 3. Garnett, 4. Duncan, 5. Wade, 6. Kobe, etc. Kobe had the 2nd best CAREER and Shaq had the 1st best, and they were each reasons for each other's success.

210Don
05-28-2011, 02:07 AM
I based my ratings off of best careers. If I was going to rate it as best players, I'd probably do: 1. LeBron, 2. Shaq, 3. Garnett, 4. Duncan, 5. Wade, 6. Kobe, etc. Kobe had the 2nd best CAREER and Shaq had the 1st best, and they were each reasons for each other's success.

smh @ lebron 1st
shaq kobe timmy all had better games in their primes than lebron sorry

TylerSL
05-28-2011, 02:08 AM
I would go with

1.Lebron
2.Shaq
3.Duncan
4.Wade
5.Kobe
6.KG
7.Dirk
8.Nash
9.CP3
10.Howard

Dash
05-28-2011, 02:09 AM
smh @ what was put about duncan you can say that about any player....
also timmy never had a second superstar
according to this shaq had the 2nd best player after jordan and somehow only won 3 chips kinda sad huh two top 5 players all time only won three chips together

This is such an awful post.

It just is.

210Don
05-28-2011, 02:09 AM
I would go with

1.Lebron
2.Shaq
3.Duncan
4.Wade
5.Kobe
6.KG
7.Dirk
8.Nash
9.CP3
10.Howard

wade above kobe? stop being a homer

210Don
05-28-2011, 02:11 AM
This is such an awful post.

It just is.

awful post is what he put about duncan. he coulda put that about any player.
also just think about it kobe and shaq are top 5 players all time right there with jordan dont you think they shoulda won more chips?

Dash
05-28-2011, 02:12 AM
[QUOTE=TylerSL;18053554]I would go with

1.Lebron
2.Wade
3.Joel Anthony
4.Mike Miller
5.Mike Bibby
6.Chris Bosh
7.Udonis Hasleem
8.Mario Chalmers
9. James Jones
10.Eddie House/QUOTE]

Fixed

JoeyBoy718
05-28-2011, 02:12 AM
smh @ lebron 1st
shaq kobe timmy all had better games in their primes than lebron sorry

What's up with all the smh's? Is that how you make yourself feel better about yourself? I'm not trying to discredit Timmy at all. And I think Phil Jackson is the most overrated coach of all time. He always had talent. Poppovich runs an excellent system out there in San Antonio. They had the best record in the NBA with Duncan playing limited minutes and being in his twilight years, and I never thought Parker and Ginolbi were elite players. Very good but not elite. At the same time, Duncan was that guy who was needed in order for the success to happen. It's like the Patriots. Bellichick needed Brady as much as Brady needed Bellichick. So what would happen if Bellichick had Peyton? Duncan is an all time great, and I'm not trying to take anything away from him.

Dash
05-28-2011, 02:13 AM
awful post is what he put about duncan. he coulda put that about any player.
also just think about it kobe and shaq are top 5 players all time right there with jordan dont you think they shoulda won more chips?

What ever, at least you not more annoying than heat fans.

I see what you mean.

Dash
05-28-2011, 02:13 AM
What's up with all the smh's? Is that how you make yourself feel better about yourself? I'm not trying to discredit Timmy at all. And I think Phil Jackson is the most overrated coach of all time. He always had talent. Poppovich runs an excellent system out there in San Antonio. They had the best record in the NBA with Duncan playing limited minutes and being in his twilight years, and I never thought Parker and Ginolbi were elite players. Very good but not elite. At the same time, Duncan was that guy who was needed in order for the success to happen. It's like the Patriots. Bellichick needed Brady as much as Brady needed Bellichick. So what would happen if Bellichick had Peyton? Duncan is an all time great, and I'm not trying to take anything away from him.

smh

210Don
05-28-2011, 02:15 AM
What's up with all the smh's? Is that how you make yourself feel better about yourself? I'm not trying to discredit Timmy at all. And I think Phil Jackson is the most overrated coach of all time. He always had talent. Poppovich runs an excellent system out there in San Antonio. They had the best record in the NBA with Duncan playing limited minutes and being in his twilight years, and I never thought Parker and Ginolbi were elite players. Very good but not elite. At the same time, Duncan was that guy who was needed in order for the success to happen. It's like the Patriots. Bellichick needed Brady as much as Brady needed Bellichick. So what would happen if Bellichick had Peyton? Duncan is an all time great, and I'm not trying to take anything away from him.

idk bout feelin better about myself...
but what you said it sounded like you were tryin to say if he went to any other team he wouldn't have had as much success which i strongly disagree with....
having timmy makes it easy for a gm to build a team around him, hes very coach able and makes players better. if he woulda went to boston they would have all the chips not us. and whoever coached the celtics and there gm would be praised not us.

TheHighLife
05-28-2011, 02:15 AM
Dirk is definitely the top 4

allSUAVE
05-28-2011, 02:15 AM
This
1.Kobe
2.Shaq
3.Duncan
4. Dirk
5. Kidd
6. KG
7. Wade
8.Lebron
9.Iverson
10.McGrady

Dash
05-28-2011, 02:16 AM
Dirk is definitely the top 4

No.

Sadds The Gr8
05-28-2011, 02:20 AM
I would go with

1.Lebron
2.Shaq
3.Duncan
4.Wade
5.Kobe
6.KG
7.Dirk
8.Nash
9.CP3
10.Howard

Wade and Lebron above Kobe? Lebron above Shaq? no Kidd?:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

JoeyBoy718
05-28-2011, 02:22 AM
idk bout feelin better about myself...
but what you said it sounded like you were tryin to say if he went to any other team he wouldn't have had as much success which i strongly disagree with....
having timmy makes it easy for a gm to build a team around him, hes very coach able and makes players better. if he woulda went to boston they would have all the chips not us. and whoever coached the celtics and there gm would be praised not us.

You're right that I can make that argument about any player because careers are mainly based off championships. Duncan will be viewed as a top 10 player all time and Garnett will probably barely be viewed as top 50, and talent wise I think they are about the same. I know it's all hypotheticals, so the only fact is that Duncan is a 4 time champion and a top 10 all time player. It wasn't intended to discredit Duncan. It was more to say that he was more fortunate than someone like Garnett, but it is what it is. Also, Kobe will go down as probably top 5 all time because of his 5 rings, but if you analyze it, you can argue that he won 3 as second fiddle and won the other 2 with a stacked team while the rest of the league talent was at a standstill. Either way, Duncan and Kobe are all time greats.

Dash
05-28-2011, 02:26 AM
Wade and Lebron above Kobe? Lebron above Shaq? no Kidd?:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

LeBron > Jordan.

cm0n br0 wtf u b3 thinkg d4wg u sm3ll like d4wg sh1t.

lmao.

dude Miami fans are so bad

210Don
05-28-2011, 02:26 AM
You're right that I can make that argument about any player because careers are mainly based off championships. Duncan will be viewed as a top 10 player all time and Garnett will probably barely be viewed as top 50, and talent wise I think they are about the same. I know it's all hypotheticals, so the only fact is that Duncan is a 4 time champion and a top 10 all time player. It wasn't intended to discredit Duncan. It was more to say that he was more fortunate than someone like Garnett, but it is what it is. Also, Kobe will go down as probably top 5 all time because of his 5 rings, but if you analyze it, you can argue that he won 3 as second fiddle and won the other 2 with a stacked team while the rest of the league talent was at a standstill. Either way, Duncan and Kobe are all time greats.

idk bout timmy being more lucky either..... in kgs younger days he clashed with marbury and had a bad attitude, maybe because of that players didnt wanna go play with him in minny timmy never had that type of character problems. thats why i say its easy to build a team around timmy were as kg you never know when he would clash with a player that didnt get him the ball. character also has a little to do with this. imagine if kobe & shaq had timmys character they woulda been together 15 years who know how many chips they would a won. like you say its all hypothetical

meloman1592
05-28-2011, 02:27 AM
Take Ivy out of this and I agree for the most part.

Definitely leave Iverson in!!! Are you crazy???

JoeyBoy718
05-28-2011, 02:38 AM
idk bout timmy being more lucky either..... in kgs younger days he clashed with marbury and had a bad attitude, maybe because of that players didnt wanna go play with him in minny timmy never had that type of character problems. thats why i say its easy to build a team around timmy were as kg you never know when he would clash with a player that didnt get him the ball. character also has a little to do with this. imagine if kobe & shaq had timmys character they woulda been together 15 years who know how many chips they would a won. like you say its all hypothetical

You're right about his character. That's what separates skill from intangibles. Not saying that Duncan didn't have skill. He was never a highlight reel, but he was smart and had all the intangibles. That's why a guy like Iverson might have all the talent in the world, but you would rather have Kidd on your team. It really leads to the old question, what determines a championship player/team? Is it talent, character, chemistry, coaching, etc? Apparently Duncan was doing something right.

Giraffes Rule
05-28-2011, 03:14 AM
You're right about his character. That's what separates skill from intangibles. Not saying that Duncan didn't have skill. He was never a highlight reel, but he was smart and had all the intangibles. That's why a guy like Iverson might have all the talent in the world, but you would rather have Kidd on your team. It really leads to the old question, what determines a championship player/team? Is it talent, character, chemistry, coaching, etc? Apparently Duncan was doing something right.

Uh... have you watched him play? There's a reason Tim Duncan is called "the big fundamental." "Intangibles" are not what makes Tim Duncan great. He's not athletic, but he has been one of the most skilled players in the NBA throughout his career.

MagicBucsSox
05-28-2011, 03:16 AM
Any list without ALLEN IVERSON in the top5 ......... Your an idiot. Duncan may not had a "superstar" but an aged Admiral & Sean Elliot, Avery, Parker,Turk ,Steve jax,manu, kev Willis,etc etc he had players.AI had ?????????
Top 10
Kobe
Shaq
AI
KG
duncan
Dirk
Kidd
Nash
Tmac
Bron

ChiTownPacerFan
05-28-2011, 03:26 AM
1. Shaq
2. Kobe
3. Duncan
4. LeBron
5. Garnett
6. Kidd
7. Wade
8. Dirk
9. Billups
10. McGrady

Honorable Mention- Nash, CP3, Iverson, and Howard.

keithy19
05-28-2011, 03:41 AM
So I'm the only one who here who thinks Jordan's best years were in Washington?

Lake_Show2416
05-28-2011, 04:05 AM
LeBron > Jordan.

cm0n br0 wtf u b3 thinkg d4wg u sm3ll like d4wg sh1t.

lmao.

dude Miami fans are so bad

:laugh2: sounds bout right...

1. Kobe
2. Shaq
3. Duncan
4. Lebron
5. KG
6. Kidd
7. Wade
8. Dirk
9. Iverson
10. Nash

broncosfan4eva
05-28-2011, 04:39 AM
1.Kobe
2.shaq
3.Duncan
4.garnett
5.Lebron
6.Dirk
7.Nash
8.Wade
9.iverson
10.kidd

broncosfan4eva
05-28-2011, 04:41 AM
If Dirk wins the title it moves him up to number 4

kyomack
05-28-2011, 04:47 AM
if you do not have a ring, you should not be on the list

ChiTownPacerFan
05-28-2011, 05:02 AM
if you do not have a ring, you should not be on the list

That's a bit silly, certainly Dirk and Bron belong there. I am shocked everyone is taking Iverson over Billups though.

shep33
05-28-2011, 05:06 AM
Kobe, Shaq and Timmy are so far ahead of Lebron right now that it's ridiculous. This is what happens when people live in the moment. Once Lebron wins 5, we'll compare him to Kobe. Right now, legacy wise, Kobe, Timmy, and Shaq blow Lebron out of the water.... and its not really close.

magichatnumber9
05-28-2011, 05:28 AM
smh @ what was put about duncan you can say that about any player....
also timmy never had a second superstar
according to this shaq had the 2nd best player after jordan and somehow only won 3 chips kinda sad huh two top 5 players all time only won three chips togetherSo I guess David Robinson is just dog ****, or you don't know your own team.

shep33
05-28-2011, 05:38 AM
So I guess David Robinson is just dog ****, or you don't know your own team.

Let's be honest with ourselves... David Robinson was past his prime and wasn't close to the player he was before. He only played a few years more after Timmy came into the league, post injury too. I'm not a Spurs fan, but unlike LBJ, Wade and Bosh, if you put Duncan and Robinson or Shaq and Kobe in their primes, playing together... no team would stand a chance, I'm sorry.

You know what else is interesting? Outside of Shaq, Kobe hasn't played on a team with 2 other all-stars (besides his 2nd year when 4 lakers made it on flash, and Kobe was 19 years old).

Anyways back to my point, if you put a 26 year old kobe with a 26 year old Shaq, and throw another all-star in their prime on those Laker team... lol I'm pretty sure they'd never lose.

Kashmir13579
05-28-2011, 06:45 AM
After a long night just getting in here is my list off the top of my head...

1. Lebron
2. Shaq
3. Tracy Mcgrady
4. KG
5. Steve Nash
6. Kobe
7. Tim Duncan
8. Chris Paul
9. Dirk Nowitzki
10. Dwight Howard

There are too many great players to try and fit them all in here. I want to add Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Jason Kidd... :pity:

bagwell368
05-28-2011, 08:22 AM
Take Ivy out of this and I agree for the most part.

Yes, no Iverson. It's not KG's fault he had crap teams, nor Duncan and Kobe had good ones, when KG got the chance he cashed in.

But even if Duncan had gotten drafted by the Celts who sucked back then, he still would have been a great player.

I like Wade a lot, but in front of Kobe? Yeah...NO.

McGrady #3, Nash #5 - hahahahhrhrhhrhahgggghh

Mochalman
05-28-2011, 08:43 AM
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
LeBron
Garnett
Iverson
C.Paul
Wade
Nowitski
Nash

mttwlsn16
05-28-2011, 09:14 AM
smh @ what was put about duncan

duncan is crap...that better?
big fundamental ya bc thats SO fun and exciting.

mttwlsn16
05-28-2011, 09:14 AM
to answer the OP, blake griffin

Hellcrooner
05-28-2011, 10:07 AM
1 Duncan

2 Shaq

3 Kobe

4 Wade

5 Lebron

6 Garnett

7 Kidd

8 Nash

9-10 10-9 those two tall europeans.

Hawkeye15
05-28-2011, 10:16 AM
off the top of my head with doing no research:

Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Garnett
LeBron
Dirk
McGrady
Wade
Pierce
Kidd

edit: Forgot about Pierce until someone mentioned him. As I said the list is off the top of my head. I would have listed him had I put a lot of effort into this.

netsgiantsyanks
05-28-2011, 10:30 AM
iverson>kidd?? lol.

silverbrad
05-28-2011, 10:34 AM
I'm kinda surprised that not one person put Paul Pierce out there. Strictly for being a winner...since its being said that some guys dont qualify because of a lack of post season success, that same argument means that rings makes great players. I'd take Pierce over Tmac, CP3 (currently, down the road that could change) and Iverson. Iverson is not, was not, and never could be a winner. The Celts are Pierces team. True he's had a great supporting crew but he's the man in Boston. And bc of that they wi

210Don
05-28-2011, 10:37 AM
I'm kinda surprised that not one person put Paul Pierce out there. Strictly for being a winner...since its being said that some guys dont qualify because of a lack of post season success, that same argument means that rings makes great players. I'd take Pierce over Tmac, CP3 (currently, down the road that could change) and Iverson. Iverson is not, was not, and never could be a winner. The Celts are Pierces team. True he's had a great supporting crew but he's the man in Boston. And bc of that they wi

iverson took a crap team to the finals... hes better than pierce

jeter4president
05-28-2011, 10:39 AM
If it's truly best players since Jordan I'd go -

Kobe - unreal work ethic, great competitor, scored 81 in one game.
Duncan - whoever said he isn't athletic is very wrong.
Shaq - probably most dominating, could have worked harder.
Dirk - unlike anything we've ever seen. Changed the idea of bigman.
Lebron - more talent/ability then anyone on this list, still young.
Garnett - best defensive player last 15 years, great leader, scorer.
Wade - when healthy, dominate. Won a finals almost by himself.
Kidd - best point guard of our era (Paul has to do it longer)
Iverson - at one time unguardable
Pierce - leads the CELTICS in career scoring. That's no joke.

Desclaimer I dont like the celtics, heat or lakers so dont try callin me a homer.

North Yorker
05-28-2011, 10:43 AM
Kobe
Shaq
Mike James
Duncan
LeBron
Dirk
Wade
Mike James
Kidd
Nash

mikealike305
05-28-2011, 10:48 AM
kobe
shaq
timmy d
lebron
wade
garnett
dirk
kidd
the truth
the answer

imagesrdecievin
05-28-2011, 11:18 AM
Those who don't have Duncan, Kobe and Shaq as their top three either aren't being honest with themselves or have only been watching the NBA for 5 years or less.

I am literally amazed by the disrespect towards Duncan - his game was so fundamentally sound there were times I actually questioned whether or not he was a robot.

Hellcrooner
05-28-2011, 11:32 AM
^there is 0 reason to not have Duncan as first.

he is the ONLY one who has LEAD his team to 4 rings since jordan.

BALLER R
05-28-2011, 11:34 AM
i dont think you can have anyone in the top 3 other than shaq, kobe and duncan

BigCityofDreams
05-28-2011, 11:42 AM
i dont think you can have anyone in the top 3 other than shaq, kobe and duncan

And this will be the first time in more than a decade that the NBA final won't have one of those 3 guys in it. That's crazy when you think about it.

pedrofan45
05-28-2011, 12:01 PM
iverson took a crap team to the finals... hes better than pierce

so did pierce :shrug:

SMH!
05-28-2011, 12:09 PM
so did pierce :shrug:

who was on pierces "crap" team? lol and why is everyone arguing iverson.. are we all living in the moment? Take a trip back to memory lane, AI was once unguardable.

Tuck&Rolle
05-28-2011, 12:16 PM
Anyone who doesn't put Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan at the top 3 are just being *****.

Robbw241
05-28-2011, 12:16 PM
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Lebron
KG
Kidd
Dirk
Wade
Nash
Iverson

Atownballa5
05-28-2011, 12:18 PM
[QUOTE=TylerSL;18053554]I would go with

1.Lebron
2.Wade
3.Joel Anthony
4.Mike Miller
5.Mike Bibby
6.Chris Bosh
7.Udonis Hasleem
8.Mario Chalmers
9. James Jones
10.Eddie House/QUOTE]

Fixed

i was thinking that too, maybe joel at 1 though...

Tuck&Rolle
05-28-2011, 12:18 PM
I love how the Heat fans get Lebron and Wade in there as soon as they can lol

Robbw241
05-28-2011, 12:18 PM
1 Duncan

2 Shaq

3 Kobe

4 Wade

5 Lebron

6 Garnett

7 Kidd

8 Nash

9-10 10-9 those two tall europeans.

Pau Gasol in your top ten, what a surprise :laugh:

Master Mind
05-28-2011, 12:19 PM
I'm kinda surprised that not one person put Paul Pierce out there. Strictly for being a winner...since its being said that some guys dont qualify because of a lack of post season success, that same argument means that rings makes great players. I'd take Pierce over Tmac, CP3 (currently, down the road that could change) and Iverson. Iverson is not, was not, and never could be a winner. The Celts are Pierces team. True he's had a great supporting crew but he's the man in Boston. And bc of that they wi

This.

ragee
05-28-2011, 12:21 PM
I'd go
1.Kobe
2.Shaq
3.Duncan
4.Lebron
5.KG
6.Wade
7.Dirk
8.Nash
9.Iverson
10.McGrady (when he was healthy)

I agree T-Mac should probably be in there... Take out Kidd though? People tend to forget how good he was... He led a pathetic team to the NBA Finals...

cowboyz180
05-28-2011, 12:33 PM
1.Kobe
2.Shaq
3.Lebron
4.Tim Duncan
5.Dirk
6.KG
7.Jason Kidd
8.Wade
9.Nash
10.Iverson?

210Don
05-28-2011, 12:40 PM
Those who don't have Duncan, Kobe and Shaq as their top three either aren't being honest with themselves or have only been watching the NBA for 5 years or less.

I am literally amazed by the disrespect towards Duncan - his game was so fundamentally sound there were times I actually questioned whether or not he was a robot.

i agree he gets constantly disrespected.... its horrific....people must have forgotten how dominant he was. in his prime evertime in the 4th i was confident we dump the ball down to timmy and something good would happen every single time he never failed.

Reversed86Curse
05-28-2011, 12:57 PM
Anyone putting Lebron above Shaq, Kobe, Duncan or KG is delusional. 10 yrs from now, maybe different.

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
KG
Nash
Dirk
Kidd
Lebron
Pierce
McGrady

Tuck&Rolle
05-28-2011, 12:59 PM
Anyone putting Lebron above Shaq, Kobe, Duncan or KG is delusional. 10 yrs from now, maybe different.

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
KG
Nash
Dirk
Kidd
Lebron
Pierce
McGrady

I think your being a bit bias and hypocritical

ivylleague1'
05-28-2011, 01:24 PM
1. Shaq. Most dominating center. Shaq is the greatest.

2. Allen Iverson. Four times scoring champion, several times steals champion, Holds the NBA record in the number of steals in a playoff game. The most artistic and aesthetic basketball ever !!! A Perennial top 10 in three major categories (Scoring, Steals, and Assists). The most dominating guard !!! AI is fantastic !!!

3. Lebron James. Incredible talent, the Ultimate basketball player. A Dominating Small forward. Top 10 in three major categories. Lebron is the best !!!
.
4. Wade. A great player. One of the best in the NBA. I like him and his game.

5. Kobe. The best shooting guard. Black Mamba is deadly. I did not rank him in the top 3 because he needs to be surrounded by High quality players in order to be effective. He won championships but, he is only in top 10 perennially in scoring. He is one of the greatest scorers to ever play the game. He is a fantastic shooter !!!


6. Jason Kidd.


7. Dirk

8.Duncan. Does not Dominate, but, meticulous and smart player.

9. Nash. Very intelligent player, but, needs to be surrounded by certain players to be effective.

10 Paul Pierce. / Melo. Both are great small forwards. Both can score. I like them.

MrX27
05-28-2011, 01:29 PM
Based on talent:
1- LeBron- hate if you want, he's the most well rounded player since Oscar Robertson.
2- Kobe- Jordan was better to the rim, but Kobe is a better pure shooter.
3- Shaq- He's easy to criticize now, but when at his best he was unstoppable and immovable.
4 & 5- Toss up between Wade and Duncan, Wade is still going strong and is a consummate professional, and Duncan is 1 of the greatest finesse players ever.
6-Iverson- Very few players have ever played as hard as Iverson, he squeezed out every bit of effort from his size, and did so fearlessly.
7-Garnett- At his best, the NBA hadn't seen that kind of game from a big man.
8-Howard- No explanation necessary.
9-Dirk- Boy can shoot.
10-Durant- This is based on talent so he makes the grade, and will move up in due time for sure.

Based on careers:
1-Shaq- Led the lakers to 3 titles, then captured as 4th with the heat, he was DOMINANT when younger and healthy.
2-Kobe- 5 titles, rare ability.
3-Duncan- bank shot after bank shot, all the way to titles.
4-Wade- Quality, every time he plays.
5-LeBron- Will move up the list with a ring and longevity.
6-Tony Parker- Very skillful, and still could be one of the best, but hurt by injuries and age around him.
7-Iverson- It's a shame they never could get a solid #2 option next to Iverson in his prime.
8-Nash- Mr. Assist.
9 & 10- Toss up Pierce and Garnett- They needed each other to win, but each had shined leading a team of their own.

210Don
05-28-2011, 01:34 PM
1. Shaq. Most dominating center. Shaq is the greatest.

2. Allen Iverson. Four times scoring champion, several times steals champion, Holds the NBA record in the number of steals in a playoff game. The most artistic and aesthetic basketball ever !!! A Perennial top 10 in three major categories (Scoring, Steals, and Assists). The most dominating guard !!! AI is fantastic !!!

3. Lebron James. Incredible talent, the Ultimate basketball player. A Dominating Small forward. Top 10 in three major categories. Lebron is the best !!!
.
4. Wade. A great player. One of the best in the NBA. I like him and his game.

5. Kobe. The best shooting guard. Black Mamba is deadly. I did not rank him in the top 3 because he needs to be surrounded by High quality players in order to be effective. He won championships but, he is only in top 10 perennially in scoring. He is one of the greatest scorers to ever play the game. He is a fantastic shooter !!!


6. Jason Kidd.


7. Dirk

8.Duncan. Does not Dominate, but, meticulous and smart player.

9. Nash. Very intelligent player, but, needs to be surrounded by certain players to be effective.

10 Paul Pierce. / Melo. Both are great small forwards. Both can score. I like them.
kidd and dirk wade over duncan and timmy doesnt dominate..... lmao blasphemy you must be 4 years old

210Don
05-28-2011, 01:36 PM
Based on talent:
1- LeBron- hate if you want, he's the most well rounded player since Oscar Robertson.
2- Kobe- Jordan was better to the rim, but Kobe is a better pure shooter.
3- Shaq- He's easy to criticize now, but when at his best he was unstoppable and immovable.
4 & 5- Toss up between Wade and Duncan, Wade is still going strong and is a consummate professional, and Duncan is 1 of the greatest finesse players ever.
6-Iverson- Very few players have ever played as hard as Iverson, he squeezed out every bit of effort from his size, and did so fearlessly.
7-Garnett- At his best, the NBA hadn't seen that kind of game from a big man.
8-Dirk- Boy can shoot.
9-Durant- This is based on talent so he makes the grade, and will move up in due time for sure.
10-Carmelo- Not many players can score that much without much room, Carmelo can.

Based on careers:
1-Shaq- Led the lakers to 3 titles, then captured as 4th with the heat, he was DOMINANT when younger and healthy.
2-Kobe- 5 titles, rare ability.
3-Duncan- bank shot after bank shot, all the way to titles.
4-Wade- Quality, every time he plays.
5-LeBron- Will move up the list with a ring and longevity.
6-Tony Parker- Very skillful, and still could be one of the best, but hurt by injuries and age around him.
7-Iverson- It's a shame they never could get a solid #2 option next to Iverson in his prime.
8-Nash- Mr. Assist.
9 & 10- Toss up Pierce and Garnett- They needed each other to win, but each had shined leading a team of their own.

i really dont see how timmy isnt "talented" because he didnt dunk, hes even mroe talented because that wasnt all his game like shaq, when did shaq ever shoot a midrange jumper? thats "talented" huh

hugepatsfan
05-28-2011, 01:36 PM
Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Lebron
Wade
KG
Dirk
Kidd
Pierce
T-Mac

nickdymez
05-28-2011, 01:42 PM
Some of you guys lists are dumb... There was a list that had Lebron 1st and kobe, duncan, and shaq bottom half... Heat fans are clowns

Lake_Show2416
05-28-2011, 01:44 PM
kidd and dirk wade over duncan and timmy doesnt dominate..... lmao blasphemy you must be 4 years old

seriously all these kids seem to forget so quick, the top 3 should be Kobe, Shaq & Duncan in any order you choose, after that it's a drop off.

stop lying to yourselves if u think otherwise

nickdymez
05-28-2011, 01:44 PM
I think your being a bit bias and hypocritical

No, his list is on point. Except maybe switch dirk for lebron

Lake_Show2416
05-28-2011, 01:50 PM
i really dont see how timmy isnt "talented" because he didnt dunk, hes even mroe talented because that wasnt all his game like shaq, when did shaq ever shoot a midrange jumper? thats "talented" huh

i know u were trying to prove ur case for Timmy but Shaq didn't just dunk, he had unstoppable back to the basket post skills with a soft touch but ya he wasn't the shooting type :laugh2:

MrX27
05-28-2011, 01:50 PM
i really dont see how timmy isnt "talented" because he didnt dunk, hes even mroe talented because that wasnt all his game like shaq, when did shaq ever shoot a midrange jumper? thats "talented" huh

Obviously you're too much of a homer to see that although Duncan was a great player, he was not the greatest player.

Shaq never needed a mid-range shot, he was too busy bowling over people on his way to the rim.
If that is a easy as you say it is, then was was Duncan more finesse than power.
Answer- Power was not Duncan's forte.

Nothing wrong with Power, nothing wrong with finesse, but Shaq was the rarity in basketball, not seen since the likes of Wilt, and he played like it.

Everyone gives Duncan his props, but if you think that Duncan should be #1 on the list then you're just not being objective.

210Don
05-28-2011, 01:53 PM
Obviously you're too much of a homer to see that although Duncan was a great player, he was not the greatest player.

Shaq never needed a mid-range shot, he was too busy bowling over people on his way to the rim.
If that is a easy as you say it is, then was was Duncan more finesse than power.
Answer- Power was not Duncan's forte.

Nothing wrong with Power, nothing wrong with finesse, but Shaq was the rarity in basketball, not seen since the likes of Wilt, and he played like it.

Everyone gives Duncan his props, but if you think that Duncan should be #1 on the list then you're just not being objective.

ill take timmy over both kobe and shaq idc what you say and if you think im crazy something is wrong with you.
and lol @ duncan not being a power player because he didnt dunk you ever see timmy in the post? he made men look like kids

smith&wesson
05-28-2011, 01:53 PM
kobe
shaq
duncan
garnet
iverson
nash
dirk
lebron
wade
allen
pierce

put them in any order you like after kobe, shaq and duncan.

MrX27
05-28-2011, 01:58 PM
ill take timmy over both kobe and shaq idc what you say and if you think im crazy something is wrong with you.
and lol @ duncan not being a power player because he didnt dunk you ever see timmy in the post? he made men look like kids

I'm not going to argue with a 4 year old, so think what you want.

Just notice that everyone but you has Kobe or Shaq listed as #1, as far as having a better career than Duncan.

So either the whole world is crazy, or it's just YOU!

Done.

smith&wesson
05-28-2011, 01:59 PM
You cant compare shaq and tim duncan. duncan was a natural 4, shaq was a natural 5. duncan had a mid range game, shaq had a serious post game. they were both dominant.

duncan only started playing 5 after his prime when he has clearly lost a step in quickness.

mamba24
05-28-2011, 02:00 PM
1. Shaq. Most dominating center. Shaq is the greatest.

2. Allen Iverson. Four times scoring champion, several times steals champion, Holds the NBA record in the number of steals in a playoff game. The most artistic and aesthetic basketball ever !!! A Perennial top 10 in three major categories (Scoring, Steals, and Assists). The most dominating guard !!! AI is fantastic !!!

3. Lebron James. Incredible talent, the Ultimate basketball player. A Dominating Small forward. Top 10 in three major categories. Lebron is the best !!!
.
4. Wade. A great player. One of the best in the NBA. I like him and his game.

5. Kobe. The best shooting guard. Black Mamba is deadly. I did not rank him in the top 3 because he needs to be surrounded by High quality players in order to be effective. He won championships but, he is only in top 10 perennially in scoring. He is one of the greatest scorers to ever play the game. He is a fantastic shooter !!!


6. Jason Kidd.


7. Dirk

8.Duncan. Does not Dominate, but, meticulous and smart player.

9. Nash. Very intelligent player, but, needs to be surrounded by certain players to be effective.

10 Paul Pierce. / Melo. Both are great small forwards. Both can score. I like them.

ok... putting wade and lebron over kobe makes no sense... you said kobe won championships but he needed other stars around him to be effective basically... look at lebron... never won anything. great stats, but he couldnt get over the hump. what did he do? went to be surrounded by more talent in miami with wade and bosh. without other talent for a couple years kobe had off the charts type numbers. averaged 35, 5, 6 for a couple years. thats great. lebron was at about 28, 7, 7. what did wade do without shaq?? missed the playoffs and the next few yrs was bounced out of the playoffs in the first round... so what did he do??? convinced bosh and james to join him in miami lol.... youre argument is totally off basis...

mamba24
05-28-2011, 02:03 PM
seriously all these kids seem to forget so quick, the top 3 should be Kobe, Shaq & Duncan in any order you choose, after that it's a drop off.

stop lying to yourselves if u think otherwise

Well said....

210Don
05-28-2011, 02:06 PM
I'm not going to argue with a 4 year old, so think what you want.

Just notice that everyone but you has Kobe or Shaq listed as #1, as far as having a better career than Duncan.

So either the whole world is crazy, or it's just YOU!

Done.

thats just my opinions im not saying im right just what i would do...
i just dont think its a horrible pick to pick 1st i dont think anyone would say im crazy taking timmy 1st its not like hes levels below shaq and kobe and if you think that ur crazy.
done.

MrX27
05-28-2011, 02:08 PM
^
:yawn:

Sadds The Gr8
05-28-2011, 02:10 PM
Some of you guys lists are dumb... There was a list that had Lebron 1st and kobe, duncan, and shaq bottom half... Heat fans are clowns

give them a break. they just started watching basketball last year

210Don
05-28-2011, 02:10 PM
^
:yawn:

says it yall.. thank you

RaidersLakers24
05-28-2011, 02:10 PM
After a long night just getting in here is my list off the top of my head...

1. Lebron
2. Shaq
3. Tracy Mcgrady
4. KG
5. Steve Nash
6. Kobe
7. Tim Duncan
8. Chris Paul
9. Dirk Nowitzki
10. Dwight Howard

There are too many great players to try and fit them all in here. I want to add Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Jason Kidd... :pity:

This list is trash the crapiest of crapiest

NJrockPD
05-28-2011, 02:14 PM
[QUOTE=TylerSL;18053554]I would go with

1.Lebron
2.Wade
3.Joel Anthony
4.Mike Miller
5.Mike Bibby
6.Chris Bosh
7.Udonis Hasleem
8.Mario Chalmers
9. James Jones
10.Eddie House/QUOTE]

Fixed

I love how Bosh is #6

RaidersLakers24
05-28-2011, 02:21 PM
1.Kobe
2.shaq
3.Duncan
4.garnett(better career then Lebron so far)
5.lebron
6.dirk
7.wade
8.Nash
9.Kidd
10.McGrady or Gasol

AIsixersFK
05-28-2011, 02:21 PM
Any list that doesn't have iverson in the top 5 makes me question your knowledge of the game. The man put the NBA on his shoulders when Jordan retired and is a lock for top 50 player of all time. And some of you don't even have him on your lists? lol. I saw billups on some ppls lists haha. With all that said here's my list in no particular order
iverson
lebron
Wade
Dirk
Duncan
kidd
kobe
shaq
kg
nash
honarable mention: mcgrady

210Don
05-28-2011, 02:28 PM
Any list that doesn't have iverson in the top 5 makes me question your knowledge of the game. The man put the NBA on his shoulders when Jordan retired and is a lock for top 50 player of all time. And some of you don't even have him on your lists? lol. I saw billups on some ppls lists haha. With all that said here's my list in no particular order
iverson
lebron
Wade
Kidd
Dirk
Duncan
kidd
kobe
shaq
kg
Kidd
honarable mention: mcgrady, Nash
Kidd
oh my bad no particular order lol
i was about to blast you

SugeKnight
05-28-2011, 04:03 PM
1. Shaquille O'Neal - Unstoppable
2. Kobe Bryant - 5 Rings and plays with a noticeable passion for the game
3. Tim Duncan - Big Fundemental. Gets it done on offense and defense. Reliable
4. Lebron James - Most complete player in post-Jordan era
5. Kevin Garnett - Plays D with a fiery intensity, similar to kobe. shame his golden years were wasted in Minny
6. Jason Kidd - Eyes in the back of his head. Worked hard to get his jumpshot. 3rd most 3s alltime!?
7. Dirk Nowitzki - Soft? Not anymore
8. Steve Nash - 50-40-90 shooter with great vision and the ability to break down the defense.
9. Allen Iverson - There was a time when I got scared when my team was playing the sixers, just because iverson was playing. Imagine the defenders
10. Manu Ginobili - Great slasher, shooter and a smart player. 3 championships with the Spurs, but he has the 10 spot because of 2004 Athens Olympics gold medal

mdm692
05-28-2011, 04:05 PM
1. Shaq. Most dominating center. Shaq is the greatest.

2. Allen Iverson. Four times scoring champion, several times steals champion, Holds the NBA record in the number of steals in a playoff game. The most artistic and aesthetic basketball ever !!! A Perennial top 10 in three major categories (Scoring, Steals, and Assists). The most dominating guard !!! AI is fantastic !!!

3. Lebron James. Incredible talent, the Ultimate basketball player. A Dominating Small forward. Top 10 in three major categories. Lebron is the best !!!
.
4. Wade. A great player. One of the best in the NBA. I like him and his game.

5. Kobe. The best shooting guard. Black Mamba is deadly. I did not rank him in the top 3 because he needs to be surrounded by High quality players in order to be effective. He won championships but, he is only in top 10 perennially in scoring. He is one of the greatest scorers to ever play the game. He is a fantastic shooter !!!


6. Jason Kidd.


7. Dirk

8.Duncan. Does not Dominate, but, meticulous and smart player.

9. Nash. Very intelligent player, but, needs to be surrounded by certain players to be effective.

10 Paul Pierce. / Melo. Both are great small forwards. Both can score. I like them.


How does nash need people to be effective. . .did u not see his numbers this year he was effective there just wasnt much supportin cast

Jaji
05-28-2011, 04:07 PM
Take Ivy out of this and I agree for the most part.

And replace him with who?

mdm692
05-28-2011, 04:13 PM
Based on talent:
1- LeBron- hate if you want, he's the most well rounded player since Oscar Robertson.
2- Kobe- Jordan was better to the rim, but Kobe is a better pure shooter.
3- Shaq- He's easy to criticize now, but when at his best he was unstoppable and immovable.
4 & 5- Toss up between Wade and Duncan, Wade is still going strong and is a consummate professional, and Duncan is 1 of the greatest finesse players ever.
6-Iverson- Very few players have ever played as hard as Iverson, he squeezed out every bit of effort from his size, and did so fearlessly.
7-Garnett- At his best, the NBA hadn't seen that kind of game from a big man.
8-Dirk- Boy can shoot.
9-Durant- This is based on talent so he makes the grade, and will move up in due time for sure.
10-Carmelo- Not many players can score that much without much room, Carmelo can.

Based on careers:
1-Shaq- Led the lakers to 3 titles, then captured as 4th with the heat, he was DOMINANT when younger and healthy.
2-Kobe- 5 titles, rare ability.
3-Duncan- bank shot after bank shot, all the way to titles.
4-Wade- Quality, every time he plays.
5-LeBron- Will move up the list with a ring and longevity.
6-Tony Parker- Very skillful, and still could be one of the best, but hurt by injuries and age around him.
7-Iverson- It's a shame they never could get a solid #2 option next to Iverson in his prime.
8-Nash- Mr. Assist.
9 & 10- Toss up Pierce and Garnett- They needed each other to win, but each had shined leading a team of their own.

Not to be on nashs nuts but how is he not considered top 10 talent wise. . .best shooter off the dribble(3s or 2s), best shooter fading to either righ or left side, best passes ever, averaged 40-50-90 shootin for 5 years of his career and the list keeps on going

mike_noodles
05-28-2011, 04:21 PM
This is such an awful post.

It just is.

:clap: Thank you.

Most overrated player on most of these lists is... D-Wade. He is not in the top 5 among these players, yet.

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Shaquille O'Neal
3. Tim Duncan
4. Lebron James (I hate to put him in there)
5. Jason Kidd
6. Steve Nash
7. Dirk Nowitzki
8. Dwayne Wade
9. Paul Pierce
10. Kevin Durant

Reversed86Curse
05-28-2011, 04:47 PM
I think your being a bit bias and hypocritical

Care to elaborate on how I'm bias and hypocritical?

Tanakid777
05-28-2011, 04:53 PM
So I'm the only one who here who thinks Jordan's best years were in Washington?

I cerianly hope so

bootsy
05-28-2011, 05:28 PM
definitely leave iverson in!!! Are you crazy???

+1.

Kashmir13579
05-28-2011, 05:36 PM
This list is trash the crapiest of crapiest

:laugh2:

don't tell me. its Kobe at the 6 spot.... :rolleyes:

rhino17
05-28-2011, 05:42 PM
1) Shaquille O'neal
2) Kobe Bryant
3) Tim Duncan
4) Lebron James
5) Jason Kidd
6) Dirk Nowitzki
7) Tracy McGrady
8) Allen Iverson
9) Kevin Garnet
10) Dwane Wade

Others: Chris Webber, Paul Pierce, Yao Ming, Dwight Howard, Steve Nash

Bruno
05-28-2011, 05:55 PM
1)Shaq-Bryant-Duncan (no order).
4) KG
5) Dirk
6) LBJ (drafted in '03).
7) Kidd
8) Wade (drafted in '03).
9) Nash
10) Pierce

(honorable mention AI, Ray Allen, T-Mac, Billups, D. Howard ('04), Cp3 ('05)).

wmudford
05-28-2011, 06:01 PM
Career:
Shaq
Timmy
Kobe
Garnett
Lebron
Wade
Nowitzki
Nash
Kidd
Maybe AI

Talent:
Lebron
Shaq
Timmy
Garnett
Wade
Kobe
Nowizki
Kidd
AI
Nash

bluefire7002
05-28-2011, 07:00 PM
Wade and Lebron above Kobe? Lebron above Shaq? no Kidd?:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

lol.. this is what happens when you have just started watching the NBA in the last 2 years and you live in Miami :confused:

ivylleague1'
05-28-2011, 11:53 PM
How does nash need people to be effective. . .did u not see his numbers this year he was effective there just wasnt much supportin cast

Nash is a great player and I like him. The statement is not a negative one. "Effective" does not mean his numbers, but, his victories. He needs the right people to move the team to the next level.

ivylleague1'
05-29-2011, 12:03 AM
ok... putting wade and lebron over kobe makes no sense... you said kobe won championships but he needed other stars around him to be effective basically... look at lebron... never won anything. great stats, but he couldnt get over the hump. what did he do? went to be surrounded by more talent in miami with wade and bosh. without other talent for a couple years kobe had off the charts type numbers. averaged 35, 5, 6 for a couple years. thats great. lebron was at about 28, 7, 7. what did wade do without shaq?? missed the playoffs and the next few yrs was bounced out of the playoffs in the first round... so what did he do??? convinced bosh and james to join him in miami lol.... youre argument is totally off basis...

What happened to Kobe this post season ? Lakers were the defending champs, and he allowed them to be swept by a lower seed team. I like Kobe.

ivylleague1'
05-29-2011, 12:12 AM
kidd and dirk wade over duncan and timmy doesnt dominate..... lmao blasphemy you must be 4 years old

Be cool !!! Duncan is a great player but, when a #1 seed (Spurs) allowed a #8 seed (Grizzlies) to defeat them badly in the post season the best player in the #1 team is penalized. Miami has been fantastic, Dallas has been terrific so the best players from both teams are rewarded.

valade16
05-29-2011, 12:20 AM
What happened to Kobe this post season ? Lakers were the defending champs, and he allowed them to be swept by a lower seed team. I like Kobe.

Look, I'm the biggest Kobe hater out there but are you SERIOUSLY suggesting this 1 year overrides the decade of excellence including 7 finals appearances and 5 Championships?

Live in the momen a little more why don't you...

Careerwise my top 5 PJ (Post Jordan): 1. Kobe 2. Duncan 3. Shaq 4. LeBron 5. Garnett

Talent-wise: 1. Shaq 2. Duncan 3. LeBron 4. Kobe 5. Garnett

valade16
05-29-2011, 12:25 AM
Be cool !!! Duncan is a great player but, when a #1 seed (Spurs) allowed a #8 seed (Grizzlies) to defeat them badly in the post season the best player in the #1 team is penalized. Miami has been fantastic, Dallas has been terrific so the best players from both teams are rewarded.

That's wierd, I could've sworn this thread was the post Jordan era not the 10-11 season...

I mean, that's like me penalizing LeBron for not making the playoffs his rookie year.

2 MVPs, 4 Titles. Duncan was amazing, almost as amazing as how ignorant that post was.

Goddamn I hate having NBA discussions with 16 year olds.

Rego247
05-29-2011, 12:34 AM
I would go with

1.Lebron
2.Shaq
3.Duncan
4.Wade
5.Kobe
6.KG
7.Dirk
8.Nash
9.CP3
10.Howard

some damn fine homerism right here.

:facepalm:

NYYCowboys
05-29-2011, 12:37 AM
When all is said and done Lebron will be considered the 2nd best or best player ever. And this is coming from someone who is not his biggest fan.

valade16
05-29-2011, 12:56 AM
When all is said and done Lebron will be considered the 2nd best or best player ever. And this is coming from someone who is not his biggest fan.

Key words: said and done.

Remember when Grant Hill was a top 10 lock ever? Lets rank him based on what he has done, not what he might do eh?

LongWayFromHome
05-29-2011, 01:12 AM
Some that are underrated at this point

(post Jordan accolades)

Kidd - 8 AllStars, 5 NBA 1st (1 2nd), 4 Def 1st (5 2nd), top 5 AST 12 out of 13 seasons (8th this year) led 5 times. Made back-to-back finals avg 20/9ast/8reb in those playoffs.

Ben Wallace - 4 AllStars, 4 DPoY awards!, 5 Def 1st (1 2nd), 2 NBA 2nd (2 3rd), 3 Top ten MVPs, 1 Ship.

Chris Webber - 22.8pts / 10.7reb / 4.6ast / 1.5stl / 1.3blk, top 10 in MVP 5 times, 1 NBA 1st (4 2nd, 1 3rd) <--- I hated Chris btw.

Karl Malone - 6 seasons (worst years of his career), 22pts / 8.6reb / 4.2ast, 1 MVP, 1 NBA 1st (1 2nd, 1 3rd), 1 Def 1st.

LongWayFromHome
05-29-2011, 01:14 AM
Key words: said and done.

Remember when Grant Hill was a top 10 lock ever? Lets rank him based on what he has done, not what he might do eh?

great point. AND remember that he and T-Mac were going to win multiple ships in Orlando?

XJW18
05-29-2011, 02:57 AM
Lebron 1?
hahahaha
damn heat fans.

EaglePride615
05-29-2011, 03:27 AM
no chanucys? tmac? cmon stop being homers. paul pierce?

ChiTownPacerFan
05-29-2011, 03:48 AM
Any list that doesn't have iverson in the top 5 makes me question your knowledge of the game. The man put the NBA on his shoulders when Jordan retired and is a lock for top 50 player of all time. And some of you don't even have him on your lists? lol. I saw billups on some ppls lists haha. With all that said here's my list in no particular order
iverson
lebron
Wade
Dirk
Duncan
kidd
kobe
shaq
kg
Kidd
honarable mention: mcgrady, Nash
Kidd

Really?! Does everyone forget that Billups led the Pistons to Six consecutive Eastern Conference Finals. During that time they made it to 2 NBA finals and won a championship. That is a pretty good resume right there.
Iverson made it as far as the eastern conference finals one time. I'm not hating on Iverson, he is clearly one of the most prolific scorers of all time. Laugh all you want, but if I'm trying to win a championship, I'll take Billups over Iverson.

C_Mund
05-29-2011, 05:15 AM
Really?! Does everyone forget that Billups led the Pistons to Six consecutive Eastern Conference Finals. During that time they made it to 2 NBA finals and won a championship. That is a pretty good resume right there.
Iverson made it as far as the eastern conference finals one time. I'm not hating on Iverson, he is clearly one of the most prolific scorers of all time. Laugh all you want, but if I'm trying to win a championship, I'll take Billups over Iverson.

Please.
Billups.
Wallace
Wallace
Rip
Prince
vs.
Iverson.
Mckey
Lynch
Snow
McCullough/Deke

Iverson dragged the sorriest bag of pilons ever to the finals, only one recognizable name (except for Snow, since he's a broadcaster). AND were the only team to blemish LA's post-season record....IN THE NBA FINALS. AI did what nobody else could do and if Dirk doesn't win a title then he and Iverson could be looked at in a similar way historically, taking into account on the court matters only.

naps
05-29-2011, 06:24 AM
Any list without ALLEN IVERSON in the top5 ......... Your an idiot. Duncan may not had a "superstar" but an aged Admiral & Sean Elliot, Avery, Parker,Turk ,Steve jax,manu, kev Willis,etc etc he had players.AI had ?????????
Top 10
Kobe
Shaq
AI
KG
duncan
Dirk
Kidd
Nash
Tmac
Bron

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:

WTF, Wade is not there? Stop the hate dude. Only LeBron, Kobe, and Duncan had better career than Wade thus far. No one else.

Jacks3
05-29-2011, 06:28 AM
Best players since Jordan:

1. Shaq
2. Lebron
3. Kobe
4. Duncan
5. KG
6. Wade
7. Dirk
8. Nash
9. T-Mac
10. Iverson

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 08:42 AM
Which players had the 10 greatest careers since Jordan left the Bulls (I don't count his years in Washington)? Meaning everything that person did while Jordan was still playing can not be counted. Pretend that the NBA started the year after Jordan left, and all the stats and legacies started then too. Here is my list:

1. Shaq. Even though his years while Jordan was still playing cannot be counted, he still had some of the most dominant years, and he won 4 rings, 3 as the main guy.

2. Kobe. His whole career pretty much came after Jordan left. He has the most rings out of anybody, 5, even though 3 of them were playing second fiddle to Shaq.

3. Duncan. I look at him as the Tom Brady of the NBA. Great player, but would he have had the same success if he wasn't brought up in such a great environment, excellent organization, and one of the greatest coaches of all time?

4. LeBron. There have been many "next Jordans" since he retired, but LeBron has dominated the league for the past 8 years, and he is finally beginning to have postseason success.

5. Garnett. His career will probably go overlooked because he didn't have the championship success as the other two great bigs of his era, Shaq and Duncan. But when he was good, he was one of the most multi talented players to ever play the game. Did get a ring with the Celtics, but he wasn't the same player he was earlier in his career.

6. Wade. Has been overlooked most of his career, but he has been in the discussion for best player in the NBA with LeBron and Kobe for the past few years now. Had one of the most impressive postseason runs when he won a championship with Shaq, but Wade was the main guy on that team.

7. Dirk. Probably the best European player ever to play in the NBA. He is one of the most unique talents ever to play the game, his teams are always in contention for a championship, and he is always in the discussion for MVP.

8. Iverson. He was the most dominant little guy in a time when the league was run by bigs with Shaq, Duncan and Garnett. Never had the postseason success, and always had issues with his teammates and coaches, but was one of the most talented players ever to play when he was in his prime.

9. Kidd. The ultimate team player and team leader. His teams would dominate the Eastern Conference year in year out. He also had a great career while Jordan was playing which cannot be counted. Was never surrounded by much talent but always brought the best out of his teammates.

10. Nash. A surprise multiple time MVP. He had a slightly above average career his years with Dallas but then exploded into a superstar when he went to Phoenix. Probably the last throwback style point guard the NBA will ever see. If his whole career was like it was with Phoenix, he would probably challenge for the all time assist record. He also has one of the purest shots in the game.


Really love the effort and thoughtfulness of this post. Need more posters like this on PSD.

That said, a few comments.

1. Iverson did have postseason success. Took a team of scrubs to the finals. That's gotta count for something.

2. Is it fair to have Nash so low? Those early Phoenix years were revelatory, and the two MVPs, IMHO, were not undeserved.

3. I'd also flip Dirk and Wade, but outside of that, I agree with this list completely. The top three are exactly as they should be. Don't see how you can argue with that, except to say, possibly, that Kobe and Shaq could flip. Timmy D deserves to be in the top three, and you don't understand the game of basketball if you think anyone else on this list deserves to be above him.

Well done.

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 08:46 AM
Also, if you have CP3, Howard, or anyone who has blossomed in only the last couple years, you really need to look up the players mentioned in the initial list before you embarrass yourself further by being a brand new fan. While these players are great, they have ACHIEVED nothing like the players on this list.

Minimal
05-29-2011, 09:06 AM
Top 10 Players since Jordan so far for me

1. Shaq
2. LeBron
3. Kobe
4. Duncan
5. Wade
6. KG
7. Dirk
8. Steve Nash
9. Dwight Howard
10. T-Mac

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 09:11 AM
Top 10 Players since Jordan so far for me

1. Shaq
2. LeBron
3. Kobe
4. Duncan
5. Wade
6. KG
7. Dirk
8. Steve Nash
9. Dwight Howard
10. T-Mac

I could not disagree with 2 and 3 more, but I'd like to hear your explanation before I tell you why. Please, make your best case.

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 09:12 AM
Top 10 Players since Jordan so far for me

1. Shaq
2. LeBron
3. Kobe
4. Duncan
5. Wade
6. KG
7. Dirk
8. Steve Nash
9. Dwight Howard
10. T-Mac

And Dwight Howard?!?! How many great seasons has he had? And he's there over Kidd? Iverson? What has he accomplished?

How long have you been an NBA fan?

Hustlenomics
05-29-2011, 09:42 AM
Dwyane Wade is really being overrated here

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 09:48 AM
Dwyane Wade is really being overrated here

So you want him off the list? Who goes on in his place?

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 09:50 AM
What happened to Kobe this post season ? Lakers were the defending champs, and he allowed them to be swept by a lower seed team. I like Kobe.

We are discussing the greatest players since 1999. Kobe Bryant has been a top two player in the NBA in that time, because he has 5 rings, and two as the go-to guy. Cherry picking one year out of his career, especially the last one, now that he's past his prime, displays a very shallow understanding of the history of the NBA.

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 10:22 AM
Any list that doesn't have iverson in the top 5 makes me question your knowledge of the game. The man put the NBA on his shoulders when Jordan retired and is a lock for top 50 player of all time. And some of you don't even have him on your lists? lol. I saw billups on some ppls lists haha. With all that said here's my list in no particular order
iverson
lebron
Wade
Dirk
Duncan
kidd
kobe
shaq
kg
Kidd
honarable mention: mcgrady, Nash
Kidd

Being left off the top 5, I understand. But out of the top 10? No way. AI was a force of nature.

fishfan79
05-29-2011, 10:25 AM
duncan or kobe should be 1-2 they have been the best in the league for a while now. Duncan came out of college a complete stud, he did have stars with him like the admiral but he was a complete star right away and an easy hof career he just doesnt get enough press.

gsgs49
05-29-2011, 10:28 AM
Career:
Shaq
Timmy
Kobe
Garnett
Lebron
Wade
Nowitzki
Nash
Kidd
Maybe AI

Talent:
Lebron
Shaq
Timmy
Garnett
Wade
Kobe
Nowizki
Kidd
AI
Nash

Pretty solid rankings,I would make some little changes but overall it's great.

Hawkeye15
05-29-2011, 10:30 AM
Also, if you have CP3, Howard, or anyone who has blossomed in only the last couple years, you really need to look up the players mentioned in the initial list before you embarrass yourself further by being a brand new fan. While these players are great, they have ACHIEVED nothing like the players on this list.

CP3 would be there if it weren't for his putrid roster not allowing him to have playoff success. I agree with only the last sentence of your post. CP3 at his best was better than anyone outside of Shaq and Bron in their peaks. But his knee and crappy team will kill his chances.

I still will never get the Iverson love. Biggest chucker of all time whose defensive inefficiencies had to be covered up with a great defensive roster, and his complete inability to co-exist with another elite scorer gave the Sixers no choice but to construct the team they way they did.

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 10:32 AM
My list:

1. Shaq -- M.D.E.
2. Kobe -- Best scorer, playoff performer, and a shutdown defender at the SG position.
3. Duncan -- The bedrock of the most underrated dynasty in sports.
4. Garnett -- A force in his prime, a great defender, an MVP, and ultimately, a champion.
5. LeBron -- Still lot's to prove to be in the discussion for greatest ever, or even of this era (a title would boost his credentials, but it would have meant more had he done it in Cleveland), but all-around, one of the best basketball talents I've ever seen.
6. Iverson -- There have been two athletes I've had the priviledge of seeing live that I will tell my grandchildren about. One is Mariano Rivera. The other is Iverson.
7. Kidd -- A true general. Improved scorer with age.
8. Dirk -- Best. Shooting. Big man. Ever. Could skyrocket up this list with one or more titles while still in prime.
9. Nash -- Two of the greatest single seasons I have ever witnessed. A few calls go the other way against S.A., and the up-tempo Phoenix style he mastered would have earned him a title to go along with two MVPs.
10 tie -- between Pierce and Wade for unbelievable postseason play.

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 10:45 AM
CP3 would be there if it weren't for his putrid roster not allowing him to have playoff success. I agree with only the last sentence of your post. CP3 at his best was better than anyone outside of Shaq and Bron in their peaks. But his knee and crappy team will kill his chances.

I still will never get the Iverson love. Biggest chucker of all time whose defensive inefficiencies had to be covered up with a great defensive roster, and his complete inability to co-exist with another elite scorer gave the Sixers no choice but to construct the team they way they did.

Better than Kobe at his peak? No way. And I could make the case for everyone else on my list. And I love CP3's game.

Hawkeye15
05-29-2011, 10:56 AM
Better than Kobe at his peak? No way. And I could make the case for everyone else on my list. And I love CP3's game.

yes, better than Kobe. Do you remember his 07-08' season, and his 08-09' season? He was an MVP candidate, and I think he should have won one. Paul, statistically, was lights out and challenged only Bron in the numbers department.

But you will notice I didn't put him on my list either. And that is 100% due to him have minimal playoff success due to such a crappy roster. And now his knee will limit him in the regular season going forward. Sucks.

showtym24
05-29-2011, 10:58 AM
1.Kobe
2.Shaq
3.Duncan
4.KG
5.Iverson
6.Dirk
7.Lebron
8.Nash
9.Kidd
10.Wade

Hawkeye15
05-29-2011, 10:59 AM
Kobe is #1 on my list btw. While he doesn't have the peak to match up to a few others, his sustained longevity as a top 2-5 player for sooooooooo many years must be factored in. Please don't think I am saying Paul is better than Kobe. But his PEAK years were.

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 11:04 AM
Kobe is #1 on my list btw. While he doesn't have the peak to match up to a few others, his sustained longevity as a top 2-5 player for sooooooooo many years must be factored in. Please don't think I am saying Paul is better than Kobe. But his PEAK years were.

I just looked at the numbers, and I'm still not convinced. When you have a ****** supporting cast, your numbers necessarily rise. Also, he didn't accumulate those numbers under pressure, while Kobe got his under a bright spotlight, which makes a big difference, IMO. And I know you're not saying that. It's cool. And I hope you know I'm not hating on Paul. I'd love him to come to my Knicks, believe me.

Hawkeye15
05-29-2011, 11:05 AM
I just looked at the numbers, and I'm still not convinced. When you have a ****** supporting cast, your numbers necessarily rise. Also, he didn't accumulate those numbers under pressure, while Kobe got his under a bright spotlight, which makes a big difference, IMO. And I know you're not saying that. It's cool. And I hope you know I'm not hating on Paul. I'd love him to come to my Knicks, believe me.

What numbers are you looking at?

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 11:10 AM
What numbers are you looking at?

Kobe '05-'06: 35.4 pts, 5.3 rebs, 4.5 asts, 1.8 stls
'02-'03: 30.0 pts, 6.9 rebs, 5.9 asts, 2.2 stls

Under the weight of playing for the Lakers, under a microscope, in games that matter.

showtym24
05-29-2011, 11:21 AM
Kobe is #1 on my list btw. While he doesn't have the peak to match up to a few others, his sustained longevity as a top 2-5 player for sooooooooo many years must be factored in. Please don't think I am saying Paul is better than Kobe. But his PEAK years were.

No.

eugene
05-29-2011, 11:29 AM
1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Lebron
4. Kobe
5. Garnett
6. Nowitzki
7. Wade
8. Kidd
9. Iverson
10. Ray Allen

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 11:29 AM
What numbers are you looking at?

I'd really like to hear your argument, given a look at the peak years of Kobe I just put up. What am I missing?

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 11:30 AM
1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Lebron
4. Kobe
5. Garnett
6. Nowitzki
7. Wade
8. Kidd
9. Iverson
10. Ray Allen


Usually don't like to use the facepalm, but... :facepalm:

BigCityofDreams
05-29-2011, 11:36 AM
Usually don't like to use the facepalm, but... :facepalm:

How can anyone not have Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe(in any order) in the top three. It's automatic.

Hawkeye15
05-29-2011, 11:54 AM
I'd really like to hear your argument, given a look at the peak years of Kobe I just put up. What am I missing?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2006&p2=paulch01&y2=2009

This is Kobe's absolute peak year, statistically. This is Paul's (even though a strong case can be made for 07-08' as well, but I think this one was even better)

Paul had a higher PER, much better TS% (the actual way to measure scoring efficiency), he was a better rebounder (higher percentage of rebounds grabbed while on the floor, from the PG position), far better distributor, much higher offensive rating, more win shares, more WS/48.

The one reason I may select the previous year for Paul is because his playoff efficiency was off the charts. But I figured since these two years had both going home in round 1, it wouldn't be part of the argument anyways.

As I said, I think Kobe is an all time great and top 10 player not because he had any year or string of years where he was just the best player on the planet, but because he has been consistently a top 2-5 player for 12 years. That is nearly impossible to do.

But Paul had a two year run, individually, that Kobe has never matched. and I don't care about rings, blah, blah blah. Paul has no roster support. None. And getting numbers EFFICIENTLY is not easier on a bad team. Only per game numbers become inflated.

Remember, Paul turned West into an all star after being a 7th man. He created Chandler's offensive game. He made his teammates overachieve.

bagwell368
05-29-2011, 11:59 AM
Pierce - leads the CELTICS in career scoring. That's no joke.


Hunh? Pierce is third on the Celts scoring list liable to bag #2 next year, and liable never to get #1 ever.

Don't confuse PP scoring a lot of points with being an all time Celtic Great of the highest level, he isn't. He's the 3rd best SF career wise, and while he makes the all time Celt team, he's a bench guy all the way.

The other guy that said PP was a winner needs to look at the pre KG era Celts, lot of years out of the playoffs, and a lot of early exists, one one ECF which they were handled with ease. KG did save the Celts bacon in the '08 Finals, but KG is the main guiding force behind the "big 3" since it was formed.

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 12:17 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2006&p2=paulch01&y2=2009

This is Kobe's absolute peak year, statistically. This is Paul's (even though a strong case can be made for 07-08' as well, but I think this one was even better)

Paul had a higher PER, much better TS% (the actual way to measure scoring efficiency), he was a better rebounder (higher percentage of rebounds grabbed while on the floor, from the PG position), far better distributor, much higher offensive rating, more win shares, more WS/48.

The one reason I may select the previous year for Paul is because his playoff efficiency was off the charts. But I figured since these two years had both going home in round 1, it wouldn't be part of the argument anyways.

As I said, I think Kobe is an all time great and top 10 player not because he had any year or string of years where he was just the best player on the planet, but because he has been consistently a top 2-5 player for 12 years. That is nearly impossible to do.

But Paul had a two year run, individually, that Kobe has never matched. and I don't care about rings, blah, blah blah. Paul has no roster support. None. And getting numbers EFFICIENTLY is not easier on a bad team. Only per game numbers become inflated.

Remember, Paul turned West into an all star after being a 7th man. He created Chandler's offensive game. He made his teammates overachieve.

I honestly consider PER to be a fad, so I'm not really on board with your argument. Also, in context, Paul's teams were never expected to compete, and in the NBA, probably moreso than in any other major sport, that matters when considering the best players. I'd be interested what the rest of PSD would have to say about this. Want to make a poll? Paul v. Kobe in their primes?

Hawkeye15
05-29-2011, 12:22 PM
I honestly consider PER to be a fad, so I'm not really on board with your argument. Also, in context, Paul's teams were never expected to compete, and in the NBA, probably moreso than in any other major sport, that matters when considering the best players. I'd be interested what the rest of PSD would have to say about this. Want to make a poll? Paul v. Kobe in their primes?

If you don't like PER, move on to the other numbers, even though PER helps players like Kobe, who are shot creators with high volume.

I have no interest in a poll. There are 5 Hornets fans here, and 300 Laker fans that will skew the poll before the general fan can even get to it.

Look at round 1 of the Hornets-Lakers this year as an example (even though small sample sizes irk me). Paul showed yet again he is the best PG on the planet, and totally dominated the Lakers. Unfortunately, he had no help, and his frountcourt was falling apart near the end of the season and Gray even went down. When your #2 guy is Carl Landry, you are in trouble.

Kings of Queens
05-29-2011, 01:09 PM
smh @ what was put about duncan you can say that about any player....
also timmy never had a second superstar
according to this shaq had the 2nd best player after jordan and somehow only won 3 chips kinda sad huh two top 5 players all time only won three chips together

:facepalm: You spelt Dwyane wrong in your sig.

RaidersLakers24
05-29-2011, 01:40 PM
:laugh2:

don't tell me. its Kobe at the 6 spot.... :rolleyes:

No but you have Tracy McGrady Nash and Lebron above him and many others hahaha Worst list ever I'm not even that biased

RaidersLakers24
05-29-2011, 01:43 PM
Career:
Shaq
Timmy
Kobe
Garnett
Lebron
Wade
Nowitzki
Nash
Kidd
Maybe AI

Talent:
Lebron
Shaq
Timmy
Garnett
Wade
Kobe
Nowizki
Kidd
AI
Nash

Wow I didn't know wade,garnett,Timmy, and shaq had more talent then Kobe?? Lebron and Kobe are 1 and 1b in terms of talent and Kobe is #1 just look at his skill set! Some guys must have barely started watching basketball 1-2 years ago

bosox3431
05-29-2011, 02:25 PM
Scalabrine
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
Garnett
Kidd
Lebron
Wade
Nash
Iverson

packers12to88
05-29-2011, 02:41 PM
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan
LeBron
Iverson
Garnett
Wade
Kidd
Nash
Tmac

IVE GOT WOOD
05-29-2011, 03:05 PM
1.Shaq
2.Kobe
3.Duncan
4.Wade
5.Lebron
6.Kidd
7.Dirk
8.AI
9.KG
10.Howard/Nash

JoeyBoy718
05-29-2011, 03:07 PM
Really love the effort and thoughtfulness of this post. Need more posters like this on PSD.

That said, a few comments.

1. Iverson did have postseason success. Took a team of scrubs to the finals. That's gotta count for something.

2. Is it fair to have Nash so low? Those early Phoenix years were revelatory, and the two MVPs, IMHO, were not undeserved.

3. I'd also flip Dirk and Wade, but outside of that, I agree with this list completely. The top three are exactly as they should be. Don't see how you can argue with that, except to say, possibly, that Kobe and Shaq could flip. Timmy D deserves to be in the top three, and you don't understand the game of basketball if you think anyone else on this list deserves to be above him.

Well done.

Thanks. You can flip flop a few of them. For example, the top 3 can be Shaq, Kobe, Duncan in any order; the next 2 should be LeBron and Garnett in either order; then the last 5 could really go in any order. There are some honorable mentions like TMac, Webber, Pierce, Allen, Ginobli, Parker, Billups, but these are definitely the top 10.

Also, I didn't say Nash's MVPs were undeserved. They were definitely deserved. He just seemed to unexpectedly breakout from a solid PG to an MVP when he went to Phoenix. It would be like Tony Parker going to Sacramento and winning back to back MVPs.

MrX27
05-29-2011, 03:11 PM
Not to be on nashs nuts but how is he not considered top 10 talent wise. . .best shooter off the dribble(3s or 2s), best shooter fading to either righ or left side, best passes ever, averaged 40-50-90 shootin for 5 years of his career and the list keeps on going

I gave Nash props career-wise, but on pure talent the other guys had more.

Give me a bit of a break, the list is stacked, and we're talking about pure talent and Vince Carter didn't make the cut either.

It's no slight against Nash, the man has skills, and he would make the list if I could extend it to top 15 players, but I reviewed the list and I don't see anyone that I would move for him.

I think the reason I can't move him into top 10 is because (of no fault of his own) he's not really a unique talent. He's ultra skilled, but he played best in a high tempo offense that couldn't play defense.

Talent-wise, I don't know that he's any better than Tony Parker or Chris Paul.

sunsfan88
05-29-2011, 03:19 PM
I would go with

1.Lebron
2.Wade
3.Joel Anthony
4.Mike Miller
5.Mike Bibby
6.Chris Bosh
7.Udonis Hasleem
8.Mario Chalmers
9. James Jones
10.Eddie House

JoeyBoy718
05-29-2011, 03:26 PM
I gave Nash props career-wise, but on pure talent the other guys had more.

Give me a bit of a break, the list is stacked, and we're talking about pure talent and Vince Carter didn't make the cut either.

It's no slight against Nash, the man has skills, and he would make the list if I could extend it to top 15 players, but I reviewed the list and I don't see anyone that I would move for him.

I think the reason I can't move him into top 10 is because (of no fault of his own) he's not really a unique talent. He's ultra skilled, but he played best in a high tempo offense that couldn't play defense.

Talent-wise, I don't know that he's any better than Tony Parker or Chris Paul.

Talent and skill are a hard thing to judge because when most people think of talent/skill, they think of athleticism. Nash is a great ball handler, passer and an amazing shooter. Can he dunk? Who knows. Does that make him less talented than Nate Robinson? Lots of what people consider talent too is aesthetics. People like a pretty player. Dirk has one of the ugliest games I've ever seen, but he can do things "talent wise" that nobody in the history of the game could do. Also, if you were to watch Vince Carter practicing in a gym by himself, hitting half court threes and doing reverse dunks, you'd probably say he was real talented. If you were to watch Shaq practicing by himself in a gym, you'd probably wonder why that big guy is trying to play basketball.

Chi~TwnHawksFan
05-29-2011, 03:33 PM
I would go with

1.Lebron
2.Shaq
3.Duncan
4.Wade5.Kobe
6.KG
7.Dirk
8.Nash
9.CP3
10.Howard

yeaa ur deff not a homer if u have howard last and wade fourth..and KOBE behind wade along with dirk behind wade..thts the worst list ever..

MelkyNYY
05-29-2011, 04:05 PM
Why is Allen Iverson being discussed in the same breath as Paul Pierce and Chauncey Billups. Sometimes I wonder if people actually saw some of these players play.

I might get flamed for this but I don't care. One of the weakest arguments regarding a player's level of play is the whole "Did he win a championship?" argument. People spouting off accomplishments like "Eastern Conference Finalist" are attempting to attribute a team accomplishment to a player. In some instances, like Iverson for example, a non-existent supporting cast and a trip to the Finals is fair evidence. In others, like with Chauncey, it's not fair evidence at all to suggest that Billups was better than anyone else. He had a very very good team around him.

Championships have a place when we talk about "legacy" but when we are talking about the best individual player, I don't think we can hate on players because their teams sucked.

bosox3431
05-29-2011, 04:26 PM
Scalabrine is 1 no question. Then after him its a huge drop off.

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 04:32 PM
1.Shaq
2.Kobe
3.Duncan
4.Wade
5.Lebron
6.Kidd
7.Dirk
8.AI
9.KG
10.Howard/Nash

Howard?????????

Mr Haha
05-29-2011, 04:34 PM
I would go with

1.Lebron
2.Wade
3.Joel Anthony
4.Mike Miller
5.Mike Bibby
6.Chris Bosh
7.Udonis Hasleem
8.Mario Chalmers
9. James Jones
10.Eddie House

Original.

Hawkeye15
05-29-2011, 04:34 PM
[/B]

Howard????????? You can't be more than 14.

yeah, a bit premature. Howard hasn't dominated long enough to even get consideration.

MrX27
05-29-2011, 06:15 PM
Talent and skill are a hard thing to judge because when most people think of talent/skill, they think of athleticism. Nash is a great ball handler, passer and an amazing shooter. Can he dunk? Who knows. Does that make him less talented than Nate Robinson? Lots of what people consider talent too is aesthetics. People like a pretty player. Dirk has one of the ugliest games I've ever seen, but he can do things "talent wise" that nobody in the history of the game could do. Also, if you were to watch Vince Carter practicing in a gym by himself, hitting half court threes and doing reverse dunks, you'd probably say he was real talented. If you were to watch Shaq practicing by himself in a gym, you'd probably wonder why that big guy is trying to play basketball.

I don't care if someone can dunk or not, talent is talent regardless.

Nash doesn't make my list of top 10, it's not that he isn't talented but I can name 10 or more guys more talented, that's all.

You're obviously commenting without even looking at my listings because if you had you would have realized that Dirk is on the list.

ChiTownPacerFan
05-29-2011, 07:03 PM
Why is Allen Iverson being discussed in the same breath as Paul Pierce and Chauncey Billups. Sometimes I wonder if people actually saw some of these players play.

I might get flamed for this but I don't care. One of the weakest arguments regarding a player's level of play is the whole "Did he win a championship?" argument. People spouting off accomplishments like "Eastern Conference Finalist" are attempting to attribute a team accomplishment to a player. In some instances, like Iverson for example, a non-existent supporting cast and a trip to the Finals is fair evidence. In others, like with Chauncey, it's not fair evidence at all to suggest that Billups was better than anyone else. He had a very very good team around him.

Championships have a place when we talk about "legacy" but when we are talking about the best individual player, I don't think we can hate on players because their teams sucked.

Look I'm not taking anything away from Iverson, he was a great player, but, if I'm only allowed ten players, then great players are going to get left off.

As for Chauncey, he's the greatest 3 point shooting PG of all time (by the end of his career he'll be right behind Ray and Reggie). I don't know about you, but when I think of clutch performers from this era, I think of Horry, Kobe, Billups, and Allen.

He may not have had the greatest overall statistics of any guy in the last decade or so, but he had all the intangibles in spades. A guy like Iverson, on the other hand, had zero intangibles (except maybe toughness). Call me crazy, but I stand by my list.

ivylleague1'
05-29-2011, 09:16 PM
1. Shaq. Most dominating center. Shaq is the greatest.

2. Allen Iverson. Four times scoring champion, several times steals champion, Holds the NBA record in the number of steals in a playoff game. The most artistic and aesthetic basketball ever !!! A Perennial top 10 in three major categories (Scoring, Steals, and Assists). The most dominating guard !!! AI is fantastic !!!

3. Lebron James. Incredible talent, the Ultimate basketball player. A Dominating Small forward. Top 10 in three major categories. Lebron is the best !!!
.
4. Wade. A great player. One of the best in the NBA. I like him and his game.

5. Kobe. The best shooting guard. Black Mamba is deadly. I did not rank him in the top 3 because he needs to be surrounded by High quality players in order to be effective. He won championships but, he is only in top 10 perennially in scoring. He is one of the greatest scorers to ever play the game. He is a fantastic shooter !!!


6. Jason Kidd.


7. Dirk

8.Duncan. Does not Dominate, but, meticulous and smart player.

9. Nash. Very intelligent player, but, needs to be surrounded by certain players to be effective.

10 Paul Pierce. / Melo. Both are great small forwards. Both can score. I like them.


10. I also like KG, Chris Webber and Mutombo. They all belong to top 10.

MelkyNYY
05-29-2011, 09:21 PM
Look I'm not taking anything away from Iverson, he was a great player, but, if I'm only allowed ten players, then great players are going to get left off.

I agree. But you should not punish Iverson and reward a lesser player for team accomplishments. That's where my concern lies.


As for Chauncey, he's the greatest 3 point shooting PG of all time (by the end of his career he'll be right behind Ray and Reggie). I don't know about you, but when I think of clutch performers from this era, I think of Horry, Kobe, Billups, and Allen.


Again, you're being asked to list the 10 best individual players since Jordan. Essentially, if you're building a team rank the players you would take (in their prime) on that team. I can't see anyone taking Chauncey over Iverson. One needs a supporting cast while the other dominated without one.


He may not have had the greatest overall statistics of any guy in the last decade or so, but he had all the intangibles in spades. A guy like Iverson, on the other hand, had zero intangibles (except maybe toughness). Call me crazy, but I stand by my list.


Allen Iverson has zero intangibles?

ivylleague1'
05-29-2011, 09:25 PM
Some people are uncouth and lack civility and etiquette. You should not use invectives and vituperations in responding to someone's posts. You may think that a particular player should be at the top but, someone else may think otherwise, you should not respond to him by calling him names making yourself look raw and unintelligent.

Bruno
05-29-2011, 09:40 PM
Some people are uncouth and lack civility and etiquette. You should not use invectives and vituperations in responding to someone's posts. You may think that a particular player should be at the top but, someone else may think otherwise, you should not respond to him by calling him names making yourself look raw and unintelligent.

Well said. Other posters will be more likely to respect ones opinion if that given poster trys to show some decency in making his or her points.

I stop reading all posts once I see personal insults; that is the white flag.

JoeyBoy718
05-29-2011, 09:46 PM
I don't care if someone can dunk or not, talent is talent regardless.

Nash doesn't make my list of top 10, it's not that he isn't talented but I can name 10 or more guys more talented, that's all.

You're obviously commenting without even looking at my listings because if you had you would have realized that Dirk is on the list.

I wasn't disagreeing with your post. I just quoted you because you were the last one to mention talent. I was just asking the question what is talent really. Is it athleticism, aesthetics, ability, well-roundedness, dominating, etc?

KingPosey
05-29-2011, 10:00 PM
Take Ivy out of this and I agree for the most part.
EXACTLY what I was thinking, get AI the **** out of there for sure. Thats 10th spot is a tough one. Mcgrady MAYBE. That 5 year run he had was as good as any, but injuries killed him obviously.

KingPosey
05-29-2011, 10:02 PM
Some people are uncouth and lack civility and etiquette. You should not use invectives and vituperations in responding to someone's posts. You may think that a particular player should be at the top but, someone else may think otherwise, you should not respond to him by calling him names making yourself look raw and unintelligent.

Posters such as this one scream insecurity....

KingPosey
05-29-2011, 10:05 PM
10. I also like KG, Chris Webber and Mutombo. They all belong to top 10.

HOWEVER I am glad to see this name. I am a Sac fan and really believe Webber has been over looked throughout his career, and he was probably the most skilled big man in the game for a stretch. I just didnt want to homer it up.

Bruno
05-29-2011, 10:09 PM
Posters such as this one scream insecurity....

Explain.

kimo818
05-29-2011, 10:27 PM
1-Kobe Clearly an A-Hole but also clearly the next best thing to MJ and mimics him to this day. But a winner in the end

2-Shaq dominant when he was healthy and a champ. No one will duplicate his persona, skill with size and dominance down low.

3-Duncan purely skilled as a big man. Only Garnett close him. Could be one of the best 5 PFs to ever play


4-Kidd Elevates everyone, leads like no other and can score when nec

5-Garnett Could do it all with ferocity! Another one who will be considered one of the best 5 PFs of all time

6-LeBron if he can overcome some built in obstacles, he will be up with Kobe at the top. Whatever he accomplishes now tho may be skewed by having so much talent around him

7-Nash like Kidd, makes everyone around him better and can knock down the shots when needed. Even more so than Kidd. Kidd has been to the big dance and that was solely accomplished on his merit alone. Not much of a cast around him at that time

8-Wade iffy because he hasn't done as much without the likes of shaquille and now with Bosh and LeBron. Really well rounded and explosive but health issues

9-Dirk. Great but at times one dimensional

10-Billups. The cause of two titles

JordansBulls
05-30-2011, 02:13 PM
1. Shaq. Most dominating center. Shaq is the greatest.

2. Allen Iverson. Four times scoring champion, several times steals champion, Holds the NBA record in the number of steals in a playoff game. The most artistic and aesthetic basketball ever !!! A Perennial top 10 in three major categories (Scoring, Steals, and Assists). The most dominating guard !!! AI is fantastic !!!

3. Lebron James. Incredible talent, the Ultimate basketball player. A Dominating Small forward. Top 10 in three major categories. Lebron is the best !!!
.
4. Wade. A great player. One of the best in the NBA. I like him and his game.

5. Kobe. The best shooting guard. Black Mamba is deadly. I did not rank him in the top 3 because he needs to be surrounded by High quality players in order to be effective. He won championships but, he is only in top 10 perennially in scoring. He is one of the greatest scorers to ever play the game. He is a fantastic shooter !!!


6. Jason Kidd.


7. Dirk

8.Duncan. Does not Dominate, but, meticulous and smart player.

9. Nash. Very intelligent player, but, needs to be surrounded by certain players to be effective.

10 Paul Pierce. / Melo. Both are great small forwards. Both can score. I like them.

How is Iverson 2nd and Duncan 8th?

MrX27
05-30-2011, 02:23 PM
I wasn't disagreeing with your post. I just quoted you because you were the last one to mention talent. I was just asking the question what is talent really. Is it athleticism, aesthetics, ability, well-roundedness, dominating, etc?

Fair enough.

What is talent? All of that and then some.

You know true talent when you see it, and if you don't get it, then you'll never understand the "it" factor. (not saying you personally)

It's like the saying, "he has an eye for talent". It doesn't really need to be described, it is what it is, and talent is the truth.

camador22
05-30-2011, 02:45 PM
I think you have to factor in two things when making a top 10. Your resume and how good you've played even if there is no hardware. For those who have the hardware then it's how big of a factor you were and how much you contributed.

1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Kobe
4. Wade
5. Lebron
6. KG
7. Dirk
8. Nash
9. Kidd
10. Pierce

IVE GOT WOOD
05-30-2011, 03:51 PM
[/B]

Howard?????????

Yes Howard he's the most dominant big man in the game, he already has a Finals appearance and 3 straight DPOY awards. I'd rather put him there with Nash than TMac who hasn't accomplished jack ****. It blows my mind that people have him in their top 10, I even saw someone put him at #3 hahahaha:facepalm:


I'm 31 btw Mr Haha and I know enough about basketball to know that Howard belongs in the discussion it's not like I put John Wall in there or something

IVE GOT WOOD
05-30-2011, 04:04 PM
yeah, a bit premature. Howard hasn't dominated long enough to even get consideration.

I do agree in a way that its premature that's why I have him tied with Nash at 10. Either way Howard has a very solid body of work already to put him into consideration IMO.

Hawkeye15
05-30-2011, 04:07 PM
I do agree in a way that its premature that's why I have him tied with Nash at 10. Either way Howard has a very solid body of work already to put him into consideration IMO.

for sure. And considering his age, and the fact that many already think he is the #2 player in the NBA, in a couple of years he enters the top 10 since Jordan no doubt

cmellofan15
05-30-2011, 04:45 PM
1. Shaq
2. Kobe
3. Duncan
4. Dirk
5. LeBron
6. Iverson
7. Garnett
8. Nash
9. McGrady
10. Chris Paul (most talented pg since Magic)

Kashmir13579
05-30-2011, 06:19 PM
No but you have Tracy McGrady Nash and Lebron above him and many others hahaha Worst list ever I'm not even that biased

And i firmly believe that all those players were better/are better than Kobe.. You're allowed to disagree..

Looking back at my list (which i made when i was completely hammered), the only change i would make would be removing Dwight and putting in Ray Allen.

Hawkeye15
05-30-2011, 06:24 PM
And i firmly believe that all those players were better/are better than Kobe.. You're allowed to disagree..

Looking back at my list (which i made when i was completely hammered), the only change i would make would be removing Dwight and putting in Ray Allen.

Kash, my good friend, did you actually put Nash above Kobe? I can understand TMac and LeBron if we are stripping rings and careers away (not that I agree with you, but a case could be made statistically), and using peak seasons only (of which now CP3 moves way up), but Nash can't carry Kobe's jockstrap

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-30-2011, 06:32 PM
Take Ivy out of this and I agree for the most part.

your high./

wesbeasflynn
05-30-2011, 06:44 PM
Kobe
Lebron
Shaq
Nash
Wade
KG
Duncan
Howard
Dirk
Kidd/CP3/AI

Kashmir13579
05-30-2011, 06:46 PM
Kash, my good friend, did you actually put Nash above Kobe? I can understand TMac and LeBron if we are stripping rings and careers away (not that I agree with you, but a case could be made statistically), and using peak seasons only (of which now CP3 moves way up), but Nash can't carry Kobe's jockstrap

i stripped everything away :laugh2:

yea dude, i love Nash man, what can i say.

actually i can do better than that...

They were both drafted the same year, they've both played a comparable amount of minutes, Kobe has taken twice the amount of shots that Nash has taken. which to me, while taking into account that they are polar opposites in terms of style of play, accounts for Kobe's slight lead in PER.

Statistically, other than PER, (which as i said shouldn't mean much when comparing these 2 players) there is no particular area you can point to and say, THIS IS WHERE KOBE HAS HIM BEAT. Nash is a much better lifetime shooter, he's one of the best passers this game has ever seen, WS/48 being comparable to Bryant's, beats him in ORtg. basically, Nash is more efficient across the board.

i see no reason to believe that Kobe can carry Nash's Jockstrap or vice-versa. unless we're strictly taking rings into account, it really isn't an open shut case. it comes down to core beliefs on who is more important to a teams success, a historical PG who is the definition of "pass first" and maybe (one of) the best we've ever seen, or a volume shooting SG who's best statistical years can be matched (and then some) by the amount of roster support he's had. Not to mention the handful of players in the league RIGHT NOW that can match his best years and underwhelming efficiency.

It really comes down to rings though, i guess. well - for most people it does. Myself not included.

wesbeasflynn
05-30-2011, 06:47 PM
K.Love
M.Beasley
R.Rubio
W.johnson
A.Randolph
Half Way

wesbeasflynn
05-30-2011, 06:51 PM
unless we're strictly taking rings into account, it really isn't an open shut case.

Rings and Defense.

Defense is half of the game for some players.

JRomo10
05-30-2011, 07:08 PM
This is it
1.kobe
2.shaq
3.duncan
4.lebron
5.garnet
6.dirk
7.iverson
8.wade
9.kidd
10.pierce

Kashmir13579
05-30-2011, 07:09 PM
Rings and Defense.

Defense is half of the game for some players.

touche - Nash is an anomaly though. its a testimant to how great of an offensive mastermind he is, if he can be one of the alltime worst defensive players the NBA has ever seen, win multiple MVPs, and be regarded as one of the best and purest PGs we have ever been blessed with.

i don't expect many to agree with me, but then again, nobody has to agree with me. i'm a sucker for those pass first PGs; i can't stand volume shooters and those handed their legacy on a silver platter. its that simple for me.

JRomo10
05-30-2011, 07:12 PM
Kobe has to be #1 in everyones list closes thing to jordan jands down

JRomo10
05-30-2011, 07:14 PM
Nash has never even lead his team to the finals he is good but maybe #11 on my list

Il Mago50
05-30-2011, 07:37 PM
1. Shaq: Most dominating player ever, should've won MVP at least 4-5 times in his career. Lead the lakers to 3 championships as the clear main guy and almost a fourth as he was the only one who played well in the Pistons series. We will never see another player like Shaq and anyone throwing Dwight in that position are foolish. Shaq could not be stopped from basically moment he got into the league. Dwight can still be stopped by a good defender.

2. Duncan: Most underrated player even when putting him in this spot. Two-time MVP of the league, two-time finals MVP, carried the franchise for more then a decade and won multiple championships. Defensive anchor who could score in a multitude of ways whenever it was needed. A top 10 player in the history of the league like Shaq.

3. Kobe: One of the best scorers of all time, perenial all-first defense and NBA. Won two championships as the leader of the team. Scored 81 points in a single basketball game and had a stretch of 60 point and 50 point games that were breathtaking. Overall great player although selfish at times and forceful as well, he'll go down as a top 2-3 SG of all time.

4. Lebron: Two time MVP and the most unique physical speciman the league has ever seen. Has put up numbers that out-trump the all-time greats from a career pace and is probably the most physically dominating wing player in the history of the NBA. Yet to win a title which is why he isn't higher and could even be seen as lower then #4.

5. Grant Hill (healthy): When this guy was healthy, he was considered the next Michael Jordan. Extremely versitile, great defender, great vision, great offensive player and rebounder, the guy could do it all and had injuries not de-railed him, titles, MVPs and a much higher spot on this list right around Duncan would be where he would've ended up.

6. KG: Franchise PF and Defensive player of the year, the guy could do it all in his prime. Although he was never known for hitting big shots down the stretch, the former MVP's accomplishments and skill can't be argued.

7. Dirk: Former MVP, he is bar none the best European player of all-time and a future hall of famer. He has probably one of the most dominating skillsets the league has ever seen with a dead-on outside jumper, a quick first step for a guy his size, a number of backdown moves and fakes, and a fadeaway jumper that cannot be defended. Although he hasn't won a ring, he's led his team to two Finals and sports averages of 26 and 11 in his playoff career.

8. Paul Pierce: Great offensive player, great versitility and great defender who fought tooth and nail every game. Might just be the second greatest Celtic after Bird himself and brought a ring to the Celtics as the top dog on the first Big 3.

9. Wade: Underappreciated guy who just might be better then Lebron had injuries not taken their toll. The guy is a warrior, great defensive player, great scorer, clutch performer and does it all on the court. One ring beside his name and a number of accolades as well.

10. Mcgrady (healthy): When this guy was healthy, he was considered arguably the best player in the league. With a silky smooth jumpshot, great floor vision, great speed/athleticism/first step, this guy could do it all on the basketball court.

JRomo10
05-30-2011, 07:56 PM
ok well kobe has 2finals MVPs 5championships 1MVP and he is still adding to his resume common what else?

JRomo10
05-30-2011, 07:59 PM
rg123 it seems like you dont know s#1+ no way in hell nash is better than kobe.never has never will be

JRomo10
05-30-2011, 08:02 PM
Lol rg123 nash better than lebron get the hell out of here u must be canadian lol

justinnum1
05-30-2011, 08:03 PM
Lol rg123 nash better than lebron get the hell out of here u must be canadian lol

nope, he's just a troll

UnWantedTheory
05-30-2011, 08:21 PM
Oh how I love popularity contests!