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JoeyBoy718
05-27-2011, 01:05 PM
Feel free to object to any of this, but this is what I believe. In between the retirement of Jordan (the Wizards years didn't count) and the emergence of LeBron, the best player in the NBA was... Kevin Garnett. Yes, even when Shaq was in his prime as the lead role of a dynasty Lakers team, and even when Duncan was winning 4 championships and securing his place as possibly the best PF of all time. Kevin Garnett (along with Duncan) was the best big man defensive player in the league. Not only would he block shots like Duncan, he would get steals like a PG. He would lead the league in rebounding, was one of the best passing big men ever, and was up in tops in scoring average. His Celtics self is a shell shell shell shell shell of who he was. The problem was, he stayed on the Timberwolves much too long and his legacy was destroyed. Sure he one a title with the Celtics, but c'mon. That wasn't Garnett. The thing is, people have forgotten how good Garnett was because... he never won a championship (I'm not counting the one on the Celtics here. Of course he has one under his belt, but it isn't the same). Anyway, my point is, if LeBron hadn't come to Miami, this is who he would've been. People would be posting on a message forum ten years from now saying, "Do you remember how good LeBron was?" and people would be replying, "Who?" I don't care if you want to hate him, but this one not only an unselfish thing for him to do as a player and a teammate (choosing rings over accolades), but this was one of the most unselfish things he could have done for the league and the history of the NBA (the people WILL remember LeBron now). Of course everyone knows how good Garnett was, but it's only been a decade and most of us have forgotten, so imagine fifty years. Garnett could have went down as a top 5 of all time, but now he'd be lucky to go down as top 50. It's true. And that's what LeBron would have been.

ManRam
05-27-2011, 01:07 PM
I think that if he did stay in Cleveland, he would be KG all over again, for sure.

It is crazy how much KG's legacy was impacted by staying there for so long. I agree that for a short period of time he was clearly the best big man in the league, yet it seems that most everyone forgets that.

Good analogy.

Tony_Starks
05-27-2011, 01:13 PM
So KG was better than Shaq even though Shaq was dominating the entire league, winning titles, and whooping everyone's a.s.s. in sight.... including Garnetts?

We don't believe you.

ManRam
05-27-2011, 01:18 PM
So KG was better than Shaq even though Shaq was dominating the entire league, winning titles, and whooping everyone's a.s.s. in sight.... including Garnetts?

We don't believe you.

KG was better than Shaq the year he won the MVP...easily so. Look up the numbers. He was probably better the next few years as well. Actually, from 2004 on, he's probably been better than Shaq every year.

king4day
05-27-2011, 01:18 PM
I still have Shaq, Kobe and Duncan in some years.
KG was certainly up there of course and probably was the best one or two years, but I can't agree that he's been the best player since Jordan.

Also, I think KG winning the ring WAS mostly thanks to him. Pierce and Allen are great, but without KG, they don't come close to sniffing the ring in 08.

JoeyBoy718
05-27-2011, 01:18 PM
Your sig is hilarious by the way. I think the league goes through cycles. For the past few years, the best players in the league have played the 2-3 position (mainly LeBron, Kobe and Wade have been in the argument for the past 4-5 years), and before that, the bests in the game played the 4-5 positions (with Shaq, Garnett and Duncan at the top 3 in the league, not just as their positions). Of course, even only a decade later, Garnett is completely out of the discussion, and it all has to do with rings. I just saw someone's post on another thread about "how would LeBron with one with pass guys like MJ, Kareem, Magic, Hakeem, Russell, Wilt, DUNCAN, SHAQ, etc). Yea Duncan and Shaq were great, all time great, but Garnett was just as good, and he will never get the recognition. People forget, even, after only a decade, about ALL the players without rings. That's just how it is in sports.

JoeyBoy718
05-27-2011, 01:21 PM
KG was better than Shaq the year he won the MVP...easily so. Look up the numbers. He was probably better the next few years as well. Actually, from 2004 on, he's probably been better than Shaq every year.

And he only won MVP that year because that was the year his team was good. If it was based on play alone, he would have won MVP almost every year. And I think Shaq is top 5 all time. Don't get me wrong. But I'm just saying KG was that good.

Hawkeye15
05-27-2011, 01:27 PM
I have to say, KG is the one player where my bias comes out. As a Minny fan, I can comfortably say, I believe he was the best two way player of the decade. But as I said, I am a bit biased

Tony_Starks
05-27-2011, 01:42 PM
There were a couple years where KG was dominant. But there's a diffrence between dominant and unstoppable. Shaq in his prime was completely unstoppable. That year they swept the entire west was ridiculous. He was doing stuff like putting up 40 and 20. KG wasn't doing that......


Also KG had his shot. That year they played the Lakers he was in his prime, with Wally(allstar at the time), Sam, Spree all playing at a high level. Not to mention Hudson who used to absolutely kill the Lakers and Hassel for defense. They had a squad.

Hawkeye15
05-27-2011, 01:46 PM
There were a couple years where KG was dominant. But there's a diffrence between dominant and unstoppable. Shaq in his prime was completely unstoppable. That year they swept the entire west was ridiculous. He was doing stuff like putting up 40 and 20. KG wasn't doing that......

7 straight years at 20-10-5 (most ever, passing Bird and Barkley), and maybe the best defender of all big men. Like I said, I am not going to commit to saying the general consensus should be that he was the best player of the decade, but a strong, strong case can be made.

Hawkeye15
05-27-2011, 01:47 PM
There were a couple years where KG was dominant. But there's a diffrence between dominant and unstoppable. Shaq in his prime was completely unstoppable. That year they swept the entire west was ridiculous. He was doing stuff like putting up 40 and 20. KG wasn't doing that......


Also KG had his shot. That year they played the Lakers he was in his prime, with Wally(allstar at the time), Sam, Spree all playing at a high level. Not to mention Hudson who used to absolutely kill the Lakers and Hassel for defense. They had a squad.

Cassell's hip caused him to miss half the series, and be completely ineffective in the other half. KG was their PG in the last 2 games of that series. Literally

Tarheels23
05-27-2011, 02:04 PM
KG was a monster, but Duncan and Shaq were better

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 03:21 PM
I think that if he did stay in Cleveland, he would be KG all over again, for sure.

It is crazy how much KG's legacy was impacted by staying there for so long. I agree that for a short period of time he was clearly the best big man in the league, yet it seems that most everyone forgets that.

Good analogy.

Naw, Cleveland brought in a hell of a lot more than Minnesota did. At least Cleveland had a good defense.

MTar786
05-27-2011, 04:19 PM
minny had spreewell, cassel, kg, wally, hudson and more. dont tell me they ad no chance. btw when u tell me kg was as good as shaq in his prime u make me feel like throwing up. not even kobe in his prime should be mentioned with shaq in his prime. shaqs prime is probably the best ever. it only lasted 4 years though lol. if you speak of careers.. ya, maybe kobe had a better career than shaq.. jordan def did. but none of them had a prime like shaq did

bringinwood
05-27-2011, 04:33 PM
Naw, Cleveland brought in a hell of a lot more than Minnesota did. At least Cleveland had a good defense.

You think ???

I'd give the overall team nod to Minnesota...

Sam Cassell, Latrell Sprewell, Ervin Johnson, Szczerbiak and a solid bench to go along with Garnett...

Were they the late 90s Bulls ??? Not by a long shot, but they weren't as talent starved a team as LBJ's Cavaliers...

bringinwood
05-27-2011, 04:36 PM
KG was a monster, but Duncan and Shaq were better

I agree with you here...

Shaq during the late 90s into the early 00s was as unstoppable a force as this league has ever seen...

Duncan isn't in the same category as Shaq and KG, but he's up there...

I don't think KG was ever the best player in the league...

theheatles
05-27-2011, 04:48 PM
KG<Timmy<Shaq

garnett was great but him, like tim couldn't handle shaq in his prime...imo shaq was hands down best player in the nba for 3 years...shaq's defense might not of been as great as tim or garnett's d but shaq was such a mass that players avoided him...shaqs d was like nnamdi asomughas now...u just avoid him...and theres no comparison on offensive game between shaq, tim and garnett...tim and kg might have a jumper but shaq had no need

bringinwood
05-27-2011, 04:54 PM
KG<Timmy<Shaq

garnett was great but him, like tim couldn't handle shaq in his prime...imo shaq was hands down best player in the nba for 3 years...shaq's defense might not of been as great as tim or garnett's d but shaq was such a mass that players avoided him...shaqs d was like nnamdi asomughas now...u just avoid him...and theres no comparison on offensive game between shaq, tim and garnett...tim and kg might have a jumper but shaq had no need

Shaq is one of the only players in history that has survived the test of time without ever having to redefine his game...

Other players have had to adjust to Shaq, but Shaq has never had to adjust to the rest of the league...