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Gators123
05-27-2011, 10:06 AM
He said it on Mike & Mike this morning

http://twitter.com/#!/MikeAndMike/status/74099863977082880

MikeAndMike-

Scottie Pippen on our show: Jordan is probably the greatest scorer ever, but @KingJames may be the greatest player to ever play the game.

:speechless:

daleja424
05-27-2011, 10:08 AM
I just go goosebumps...no lie...

There can be no higher praise than for MJ's sidekick to say that...

I am really :speechless:

mikealike305
05-27-2011, 10:10 AM
woooowww.... thats big.

mikealike305
05-27-2011, 10:11 AM
i think ppl feel this way, but a lot of ppl are scared to say it

Hawkeye15
05-27-2011, 10:11 AM
I am one of the biggest LeBron supporters out there, but Pippen is living in the moment here. I will go on record saying if LeBron wins 3+ titles, he will be in the conversation for top 2-3 players of all time if his level of play continues for another 6-7 seasons. But MJ had nearly a flawless career, and simply crushed his peers in the championship years. It is nearly impossible for LeBron to catch him imo.

But I do think that LeBron's peak is stronger than anyone outside of Jordan in history when all is said and done.

mttwlsn16
05-27-2011, 10:11 AM
when all said and done, possible.
especially hearing it come from MJ's dwade

Hawkeye15
05-27-2011, 10:12 AM
for MJ's sidekick, and good friend to say this, is very telling however. It has to make you think, even if you hate LeBron.

jp611
05-27-2011, 10:13 AM
Lebron is amazing, but he's no MJ yet

Sly Guy
05-27-2011, 10:13 AM
LOL, no. You can't call someone the greatest of all time until their career is over.

Max Power
05-27-2011, 10:14 AM
The key word is "may".

This is a guy who quit in the past when the going got a little bit tough(maybe that's why Scottie said this, they have that common trait) He has the physical tools, but can he hack it mentally for a 8-10 year period of big games? We'll see.

Hawkeye15
05-27-2011, 10:14 AM
LOL, no. You can't call someone the greatest of all time until their career is over.

I tend to agree with you. Or at least until they are in their later years, and have nailed tons of accomplishments and rings.

jp611
05-27-2011, 10:14 AM
Lebron is the best player in this era... hands down

MFFL==FML
05-27-2011, 10:15 AM
I think he may be too... once he gets some rings.

king4day
05-27-2011, 10:15 AM
I am one of the biggest LeBron supporters out there, but Pippen is living in the moment here. I will go on record saying if LeBron wins 3+ titles, he will be in the conversation for top 2-3 players of all time if his level of play continues for another 6-7 seasons. But MJ had nearly a flawless career, and simply crushed his peers in the championship years. It is nearly impossible for LeBron to catch him imo.

But I do think that LeBron's peak is stronger than anyone outside of Jordan in history when all is said and done.

Agreed.
It's not to say someone won't ever surpass MJ as greatest of all time, but with Jordan, when you saw him go into the finals, opposing team fans really felt there was no chance to win it all.

People have yet to feel that way about Lebron.
Plus, as long as he has possibly the 2nd or 3rd best player next to him on his team, you really can't make that argument since he'll always look better and teams are forced to guard his near equal.

wizardsfan3
05-27-2011, 10:15 AM
can't determine that he hasn't even won one ring yet, and once his athleticism is gone, i think his career is done, cause he relies on his athleticism.

THE_G.O.A.T.
05-27-2011, 10:16 AM
Comments like this are why Scottie cannot get a broadcasting gig anywhere in the world for any sports. Sometimes he just says stuff that doesn't make any sense.

Heater4life
05-27-2011, 10:17 AM
Great player with 6 titles as validation is nearly impossible to beat. If Lebron pulls performances like he did last night in th finals and in future playoffs. I think theyre neck and neck.

Scoring wise its Jordan. But look at the all around game guys. Its incredible.

Hawkeye15
05-27-2011, 10:19 AM
Agreed.
It's not to say someone won't ever surpass MJ as greatest of all time, but with Jordan, when you saw him go into the finals, opposing team fans really felt there was no chance to win it all.

People have yet to feel that way about Lebron.
Plus, as long as he has possibly the 2nd or 3rd best player next to him on his team, you really can't make that argument since he'll always look better and teams are forced to guard his near equal.

eh, having a 2nd tier player, and multiple role players that are awesome is just the same dude. You could send help at MJ, but he had Pippen there, and shooters everywhere, and shot creators. Basically, the Wade/Bosh thing shouldn't be used against him. If it is, than we can bump Magic down the all time list for having Kareem, and Worthy on his team, and we can bump Bird down for having McHale, Parish, etc.

But I do agree. By 1993, you figured the season was simply a formality, and MJ would just wipe everyone away. Which he did haha

Hawkeye15
05-27-2011, 10:20 AM
can't determine that he hasn't even won one ring yet, and once his athleticism is gone, i think his career is done, cause he relies on his athleticism.

athleticism is a big part of his game, but he has a very high basketball IQ, handles the ball well, and his shooting gets better by the year. His decline will be long and steady, not an Iverson dropoff for example.

Jaji
05-27-2011, 10:20 AM
Goat

THE_G.O.A.T.
05-27-2011, 10:21 AM
Great player with 6 titles as validation is nearly impossible to beat. If Lebron pulls performances like he did last night in th finals and in future playoffs. I think theyre neck and neck.

Scoring wise its Jordan. But look at the all around game guys. Its incredible.

But if he gives up in the playoffs like he did in Cleveland I think he's not even close.

jp611
05-27-2011, 10:21 AM
well Jordan is probably one of the best defenders of all time too, so if you're saying all-around game you gotta say MJ is still better, and those 6 rings are pretty big too

flclfanman
05-27-2011, 10:24 AM
Example of Scottie living in the moment.

Lebron's a great player; no doubt, but we're all kidding ourselves to even mention him (let alone ANYONE) in the same area code as MJ.


Also think it's funny that when Phil Jackson says Kobe is on Mike's level= Everyone throws that away, but when Pippen compares Lebron to his Airness everyone's heart skips a beat.

Not a Kobe fan, just making a comparison :shrug:

showtym24
05-27-2011, 10:25 AM
Lebron is the best player in this era... hands down

By era do you mean since he came in the league? If so :facepalm:

And pippen is wrong.

Sly Guy
05-27-2011, 10:25 AM
I tend to agree with you. Or at least until they are in their later years, and have nailed tons of accomplishments and rings.

that's exactly right. Otherwise Grant Hill would have had that crown like 15 years ago. Too many variables to call someone the 'greatest' without a long history of greatness behind it.

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 10:26 AM
I think people forget how good MJ was...in the 90's, I felt like it was a given that they would win the title. Bron is awesome and easily the best in the game at the moment, but he still hasn't one a single championship. I do see him winning a few and being in the discussion, but like another poster said, Pip is living in the moment here.

showtym24
05-27-2011, 10:27 AM
And lebron has the same agrument that MJ stans have for kobe he lost a finals. MJ never did.

davids22
05-27-2011, 10:27 AM
Lebron is definitely a great all-around player. Jordan a much better scorer.

This is a very premature comment from Pippen. Let Lebron get some championships first.

Also, having D-Wade is irrelevant. Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting the year Jordan left for baseball. I think everyone can agree Pippen is a top 50 all time player.

I think a safer comment might be that Lebron and Wade could go down as the best duo ever, but even that is very premature. It's still Jordan and Pippen right now.

Lebron will never be MJ, but Lebron/Wade could easily become the better duo then Jordan/Pippen if they do everything correctly.

Rego247
05-27-2011, 10:28 AM
no he's not. scottie is just living in the moment.

mustaine
05-27-2011, 10:29 AM
Two years ago it was Kobe (according to a lot of people) and now it's LeBron. When will people ever learn?

MJ is the greatest of all time, a term that is used too loosely by so many, this time by Scottie.

I'm not even bothered anymore... people will be stupid and jump on a bandwagon.

I will say this, LeBron is the best player in the league now and has been for a while but I honestly wouldn't put him near MJ or the top 10 for that matter. Jordan, Chamberlain, Russell, Robertson, Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Bird and more were all better in my opinion (Kobe too). Have this conversation when LeBron retires, I'm guessing he'll be a top 10 of all time but will have to do a lot to get to the top 5. He's not even gotten a championship yet... certainly not 6 of them. Let him be himself and we'll see where he ends up.

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 10:30 AM
He said back in 2006 as well when he said that he thought Lebron in his eyes would be the greatest ever. Chris Broussard has already said Lebron can be top 2 ever with MJ being #1. People are high on Lebron, but this is the problem and why guys like him get hated on simply for getting rated and ranked higher than they are by giving them future awards and rings, stuff they haven't even earned yet.

Heater4life
05-27-2011, 10:31 AM
But if he gives up in the playoffs like he did in Cleveland I think he's not even close.

He gets a bunch of heat for that Celtics series, but if there was anytime to quit. It was last night down 12 with 2:54 left. Are you kidding me??? Theres no chance in hell i had my team winning at that point, not because im a pesismist, just time in general.

Theres no quit there.

JDMVP
05-27-2011, 10:32 AM
Scottie Pippen is just in the moment. It is no surprise, it's the same way when Jerry West talks about Kobe being the greatest this and that. I mean NBA Legends are people too and sometimes just like us fans they say things that are in the moment.

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-27-2011, 10:33 AM
It's too early to tell. I hate to say no way because he has a lot of years left. And I would hate to say yes because he still has not ended this season. What if Dallas wins? Then where are people going to put him? That would be 0 and 2 in the finals. That puts a big dent in any argument. But he definitely has a chance at him. The guy is absolutely amazing

But I can't believe that Scottie is the one saying this

Hawkeye15
05-27-2011, 10:35 AM
It's too early to tell. I hate to say no way because he has a lot of years left. And I would hate to say yes because he still has not ended this season. What if Dallas wins? Then where are people going to put him? That would be 0 and 2 I'm the finals. That puts a big dent in any argument. But he definitely has a chance at him. The guy is absolutely amazing

this is very true, good point.

bringinwood
05-27-2011, 10:35 AM
I think LeBron is the most talented basketball player of his generation and could be the most talented ever...

However, to consider LeBron the GOAT is a little premature since he hasn't won a title yet...

Get him 3 or 4 rings and he is in the conversation of top 3 ever for sure...

Last night was one of the clutchest performances i've ever seen... The funny thing is that I can't decide whose performance was better, DWade or LeBron...
Absolutely amazing...

This is the reason I laugh soooooo hard when people say LeBron isn't a clutch performer... I can't describe how far off that is in words...

mikealike305
05-27-2011, 10:36 AM
while i do feel we should wait til lebron retires to compare these two guys
i do not feel that pippen is talking in the momment as many of u think
i think this "momment" was just the icing on the cake that he needed to say something like this
once again. im not ready to call lebron the GOAT but i think this was more than a "in the momment" comment

Da Knicks
05-27-2011, 10:36 AM
Lebron has being the best in the league for about 4 years now but better than MJ, i dont think so.

Sly Guy
05-27-2011, 10:39 AM
I think this comparison is a hard one as well. I think it's the first time I've had to watch the 'difference between eras' personally. It's tough to say LBJ, even if he wins 6 rings, multiple MVPs/ finals MVPs, all star appearances or whatever is better than MJ because the game is so different from their respected eras.

Are we sure LBJ's numbers would hold up if the NBA wasn't calling the ticky-tac fouls on the perimeter, would LBJ be able to stand up to the harder fouls and the bigger beating his body would take going up against the bad-boy Pistons, or the hard nosed NYK defense of back in the day? Is the rare athletic gift MJ possessed as rare in today's NBA game? These are the types of questions that make comparisons really hard. And at this point, WAY too premature.

NYK|NYY
05-27-2011, 10:40 AM
Arguably the most talented player for sure

Squad13
05-27-2011, 10:40 AM
He's the most gifted physically, no doubt. I'm not saying he is, but I love to know if he was on HGH. (calm down heat "fans")

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 10:43 AM
while i do feel we should wait til lebron retires to compare these two guys
i do not feel that pippen is talking in the momment as many of u think
i think this "momment" was just the icing on the cake that he needed to say something like this
once again. im not ready to call lebron the GOAT but i think this was more than a "in the momment" comment

It is not the icing on the cake...That would be when he wins a few titles. And even then, that just puts him in the conversation. He is not in it just yet. He is amazing though...and congrats to Heat fans. Great series!

Jaji
05-27-2011, 10:44 AM
well Jordan is probably one of the best defenders of all time too, so if you're saying all-around game you gotta say MJ is still better, and those 6 rings are pretty big too

He said Jordan was the best scorer but LeBron was the better player because he is so good at facilitating he makes the other 4 guys become deadly scorers as well. LeBron can pretty much do it all. Anything on the basketball court. We just saw him lock up a 6'-3" guy with lightning quickness, and next month we'll watch him lock up a 7 footer with 26 foot range. He can do it all.

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 10:45 AM
Lebron had a better chance in Cleveland to be in that top echelon. Leaving a team to go play with a proven winner in his prime is not going to put you in that top 3 all time when you don't bring a title to the franchise that drafted you. Essentially the way he is getting titles, any player can do. Just go jump ship and play with another elite player that has already gotten it done.

Sly Guy
05-27-2011, 10:45 AM
He's the most gifted physically, no doubt. I'm not saying he is, but I love to know if he was on HGH. (calm down heat "fans")

lol, of course he is. And he's not the only one. On the Heat, and def not in the NBA.

Every time I see his headband, where he wears it makes it look like he's covering up a receding hairline. Steroids are known to cause baldness, you know.....</conspiracy>

Jaji
05-27-2011, 10:46 AM
LeBron is the GOAT, LeBron will be the GOAT. However you wanna say it... its the truth.

justinnum1
05-27-2011, 10:48 AM
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwoooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww wwwwwwwwwwwwwww


dude is just entering his prime:D

Hawkeye15
05-27-2011, 10:48 AM
Lebron had a better chance in Cleveland to be in that top echelon. Leaving a team to go play with a proven winner in his prime is not going to put you in that top 3 all time when you don't bring a title to the franchise that drafted you. Essentially the way he is getting titles, any player can do. Just go jump ship and play with another elite player that has already gotten it done.

this tired argument will be forgotten over time, trust me. The Cavs management is completely lacking in the ability to win a championship, despite having the best player in the league. And people act as if the Heat roster is as strong from top to bottom as the 80's Lakers and Celtics, or the 90's Pistons, and 90's Bulls. Well it isn't. Two tier 1 players, one tier 2 player, and role players, most of which suck. Nobody in history could have won with that Cavs roster, I am convinced of it.

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 10:48 AM
LeBron is the GOAT, LeBron will be the GOAT. However you wanna say it... its the truth.

No, he has already lost 2 series with HCA and has 2 bronze medals and ended up going to a team with a proven winner who put up one of the greatest finals ever as the man.

jockrider
05-27-2011, 10:48 AM
i don't know whats worse lebron being overrated or rose.

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 10:50 AM
LeBron is the GOAT, LeBron will be the GOAT. However you wanna say it... its the truth.

You're funny

JDMVP
05-27-2011, 10:51 AM
But seriously I'm not saying this because i'm a Laker fan or I hate LeBron or something but if he was ever to become the Greatest ever he should have stayed in Cleveland. I mean let's all be honest here MJ never played with a talent of Wade and Bosh. At the end of the day Bosh was better than Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman. D-Wade and Scottie Pippen are great players but D-wade was better.

mikealike305
05-27-2011, 10:52 AM
It is not the icing on the cake...That would be when he wins a few titles. And even then, that just puts him in the conversation. He is not in it just yet. He is amazing though...and congrats to Heat fans. Great series!

well i meant the icing on the cake as far as pippen feeling he can publicly say that and not feel stupid, not the icing on the cake as far as an over opinion. imo the icing will be a couple rings. maybe 2 or 3

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 10:52 AM
this tired argument will be forgotten over time, trust me. The Cavs management is completely lacking in the ability to win a championship, despite having the best player in the league. And people act as if the Heat roster is as strong from top to bottom as the 80's Lakers and Celtics, or the 90's Pistons, and 90's Bulls. Well it isn't. Two tier 1 players, one tier 2 player, and role players, most of which suck. Nobody in history could have won with that Cavs roster, I am convinced of it.

The Cavs team had proven winners on it. Ben Wallace in 2009, Shaq in 2010. And the Heat have 3 allstars who all pretty much have averaged 20+ in series this postseason. Certainly not as much talent as the 80's Lakers/Celtics, but more than the Bulls. Bulls didn't have that luxury, Mj had to be the best player on the floor for the Bulls to win series, with Miami that isn't the case as Wade was the best player on the floor in the Boston series.

Jaji
05-27-2011, 10:53 AM
Lebron had a better chance in Cleveland to be in that top echelon. Leaving a team to go play with a proven winner in his prime is not going to put you in that top 3 all time when you don't bring a title to the franchise that drafted you. Essentially the way he is getting titles, any player can do. Just go jump ship and play with another elite player that has already gotten it done.

The irony is that Wade didn't win anything before Shaq got there (or after he left). So by your logic that diminishes Wade, which means LeBron went to play with another player who couldn't win without an elite player, not an elite player.

Do you have a King? Go fish!

2-15's4-22's
05-27-2011, 10:53 AM
But if he gives up in the playoffs like he did in Cleveland I think he's not even close.

what are you talking about lol.... if he gives up in the playoffs? um the heat are going to the finals why would he work so hard and then give up when he finally has a chance to win a title

mikealike305
05-27-2011, 10:55 AM
LeBron is the GOAT, LeBron will be the GOAT. However you wanna say it... its the truth.

i kinda agree with this

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 10:55 AM
well i meant the icing on the cake as far as pippen feeling he can publicly say that and not feel stupid, not the icing on the cake as far as an over opinion. imo the icing will be a couple rings. maybe 2 or 3

gotcha...I still don't see how he can be even considered for the conversation right now

Jaji
05-27-2011, 10:56 AM
No, he has already lost 2 series with HCA and has 2 bronze medals and ended up going to a team with a proven winner who put up one of the greatest finals ever as the man.

Are you talking about basketball or tennis? You are naming team achievements/failures, not individual accomplishments. That's the most tired argument in all of basketball and Adam Morrison taught us that.

Carey
05-27-2011, 10:56 AM
I am one of the biggest LeBron supporters out there, but Pippen is living in the moment here. I will go on record saying if LeBron wins 3+ titles, he will be in the conversation for top 2-3 players of all time if his level of play continues for another 6-7 seasons. But MJ had nearly a flawless career, and simply crushed his peers in the championship years. It is nearly impossible for LeBron to catch him imo.

But I do think that LeBron's peak is stronger than anyone outside of Jordan in history when all is said and done.

I agree, as fantastic as Lebron is as a player i still consider him a streak shooter who needs to improve that, his post game, and his arsenal off the dribble, the scary thing is if he does those things how in the world can you stop this guy? It's hard enough now. Jordan was just masterful in his approach to the game, his efficiency, not to mention his physical gifts. It's gonna be impossible to top that in my eyes.

jockrider
05-27-2011, 10:57 AM
But seriously I'm not saying this because i'm a Laker fan or I hate LeBron or something but if he was ever to become the Greatest ever he should have stayed in Cleveland. I mean let's all be honest here MJ never played with a talent of Wade and Bosh. At the end of the day Bosh was better than Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman. D-Wade and Scottie Pippen are great players but D-wade was better.

**** no

davids22
05-27-2011, 10:57 AM
JordansBulls loves to think that a washed up Shaq should have been good enough for Lebron to win the title even though he didn't play 30 minutes a game.

Luv Da New Pack
05-27-2011, 10:58 AM
I'd like to start off by saying that it's nauseating for someone of Pippen's stature to even think something like this at this point in Lebron's career. I think someone should throw a sack over Pippen's head and each of the 50 greatest players should get a free shot (yep, that includes him).

He was obviously in awe and will snap out of it.

Clarification, I'm not a Lebron hater. He's actually one of my faves and may probably reach the 7+ chips and that's fine to have that conversation then but until you reach 1, I don't understand how someone could even form your name in that sentence.

Funny, if I'm correct, wasn't the statement about scoring vs. all round better player used with Kobe not too long ago (Kobe is a better scorer but MJ did it all)?

It gets to the point that every game winner is next up to be the greatest ever now. Reminds me of the greatness of Vince Carter.....oops.

I'll give you one better....during our talks of MJ vs Kobe someone came in with their chest out and laid out for us that NEITHER were the best because......wait for it.........DERRICK ROSE has done something neither has and that's become the youngest MVP.

AND HE WAS SERIOUS

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 10:59 AM
The irony is that Wade didn't win anything before Shaq got there (or after he left). So by your logic that diminishes Wade, which means LeBron went to play with another player who couldn't win without an elite player, not an elite player.

Do you have a King? Go fish!

Sorry no, Wade stayed with the Franchise that drafted him, he won a title with the franchise that drafted him. He brought the city it's only title a city that drafted him. Shaq was traded to Miami, Wade didn't join forces or go play with Shaq, Shaq went to play with Wade. The same thing Lebron and Bosh did. They wanted to play with the proven winner in his city that the franchise drafted him in.

NBAfan4life
05-27-2011, 10:59 AM
I think Lebron will go down as one of the top 3 to ever play, and I hate him. I honestly believe if he doesn't get injured he will surpass my beloved Kobe.

That is also why I'm hoping the Mavs destroy the Heat.

magichatnumber9
05-27-2011, 10:59 AM
The scariest thing about Lebron is that he scores like Jordan and makes plays for his teammates like Larry Bird and can floor general like Magic. Oh yeah he can guard 5 positions.

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 11:01 AM
but...he doesn't score like Jordan. Not even close

jp611
05-27-2011, 11:02 AM
If Lebron wins 6 rings, come talk to me, but even then they don't hold as much weight either

Luv Da New Pack
05-27-2011, 11:04 AM
One thing I can't fathom is this.....why is it Heat fans are trying to defend Lebron for his Cavs days?

When he was the opposition you respected him I believe but you mean to tell me if the Cavs beat the Heat you were arguing for Lebron then?

They act as if they always cheered for Lebron and they knew his days in Cleveland were just a prelude to going to South Beach.

mikealike305
05-27-2011, 11:04 AM
The scariest thing about Lebron is that he scores like Jordan and makes plays for his teammates like Larry Bird and can floor general like Magic. Oh yeah he can guard 5 positions.

this. one game he'll look like magic, next is jordan.

Jaji
05-27-2011, 11:06 AM
Sorry no, Wade stayed with the Franchise that drafted him, he won a title with the franchise that drafted him. He brought the city it's only title a city that drafted him. Shaq was traded to Miami, Wade didn't join forces or go play with Shaq, Shaq went to play with Wade. The same thing Lebron and Bosh did. They wanted to play with the proven winner in his city that the franchise drafted him in.

:confused:

So what? What does that have to do with this? Your arguments are so weak they're laughable. You can't be serious. The Lakers didn't draft Shaq or Kobe so does that mean none of their titles hold weight? What a joke.

Mile High Champ
05-27-2011, 11:08 AM
I don't understand the logic for Pippen saying this. Lebron is nowhere near my current top 10 for obvious reasons, his career is still yet to be defined. How can a player that has never won a championship and captured 2 MVP's be the best of all time?

T.O-Balla
05-27-2011, 11:09 AM
LBJ scoring like Jordan? WTF?

Forget Kobe vs LeBron, but Kobe resembles more like how Jordan scores, with those fadeaways etc.

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 11:10 AM
:confused:

So what? What does that have to do with this? Your arguments are so weak they're laughable. You can't be serious. The Lakers didn't draft Shaq or Kobe so does that mean none of their titles hold weight? What a joke.

Kobe only played with the Lakers a winning organization before he got there. He never played with the franchise that drafted him. Shaq went to LA as the lone star there. Totally different situation. Lebron decided to play with a guy who won as the man already in that player's city. It would have been like someone like MJ leaving Chicago to Detroit in 1989 to play with Isiah Thomas when he already won as the man and then try to proclaim MJ as the GOAT when he left to go play with a proven winner in his city.

T.O-Balla
05-27-2011, 11:10 AM
I'm not surprised actually, if Chicago had beaten Miami, people would be saying "Rose will be the greatest to ever play, and right now he's getting their at a pace 100mph"

Jaji
05-27-2011, 11:11 AM
but...he doesn't score like Jordan. Not even close

That's exactly what Scottie said. "Mike was the better scorer, LeBron is the better player." Dikembe Mutombo was a better shot blocker than Shaquille O'Neal. But that's only one area. Shaq was obviously the better player.

Car Ramrod
05-27-2011, 11:11 AM
Who has Lebron stopped from winning a title?

No one doubts Lebron's talent, but it takes more than that to win a championship or championships in the case of Jordan, Bird, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, Isaiah, Russel, Kobe, etc.

mikealike305
05-27-2011, 11:11 AM
LBJ scoring like Jordan? WTF?

Forget Kobe vs LeBron, but Kobe resembles more like how Jordan scores, with those fadeaways etc.

i think u should re read the quote

Kobes a Killer
05-27-2011, 11:11 AM
Lebron can't touch MJ and he never will. Plain and simple it will never happen. Lebron is the best player on the planet but he will never ever touch Jordan EVER!!!!! Get over it, lebron is playing great right now but people are just living in the moment get over it.


Go Dallas!!!

Jaji
05-27-2011, 11:13 AM
Kobe only played with the Lakers a winning organization before he got there. He never played with the franchise that drafted him. Shaq went to LA as the lone star there. Totally different situation. Lebron decided to play with a guy who won as the man already in that player's city. It would have been like someone like MJ leaving Chicago to Detroit in 1989 to play with Isiah Thomas when he already won as the man and then try to proclaim MJ as the GOAT when he left to go play with a proven winner in his city.

This is why I never take you seriously. You're delusional man. You're the Skip Bayless of PSD. Not just wrong, ridiculously wrong. Enjoy your offseason.

bringinwood
05-27-2011, 11:14 AM
but...he doesn't score like Jordan. Not even close

Kind of a bad argument since LBJ is 3rd all time in PPG while Jordan is 1st...

I agree that Jordan is the GOAT...

However, he is the GOAT for more reasons than scoring...

LBJ is a better rebounder than Jordan and a better facilitator overall...

But, Jordan was more purely dominate on both ends of the floor... Jordan was a better defender and scorer...

Talent wise, i'd give the edge to LBJ...

However, like most people have said before, it's was too premature to truely gauge these two...

T.O-Balla
05-27-2011, 11:15 AM
Stop wasting your time, this is a friggin opinion.

Like I said, if Bulls would of beat Heat, Derrick Rose would be mentioned like no tomorrow, like young kid that has a chance to be the best ever, etc, etc, etc

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 11:16 AM
:confused:

So what? What does that have to do with this? Your arguments are so weak they're laughable. You can't be serious. The Lakers didn't draft Shaq or Kobe so does that mean none of their titles hold weight? What a joke.

while I agree that isn't a good argument, what has your argument been???

IndiansFan337
05-27-2011, 11:16 AM
Jordan was the best scorer ever.

LeBron's place as a top all-time player will not be decided until he is near the end of his career or retired.

With that being said, Pippen is right. LeBron may be. But it is yet to be determined.

oak2455
05-27-2011, 11:16 AM
Lebron is great but he's not even better than MAGIG:D

DwayneMVPwade
05-27-2011, 11:16 AM
Surprised that it came from pippen. I would expect Pippen saying that Lebron is no way near MJ's stature, but wow.

T.O-Balla
05-27-2011, 11:16 AM
Where were these opinions when LBJ was in Cleveland? Exactly. This tells you how washed up people are, example, Pippen

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 11:18 AM
This is why I never take you seriously. You're delusional man. You're the Skip Bayless of PSD. Not just wrong, ridiculously wrong. Enjoy your offseason.

Prove to me anything in that post is wrong. You trying to tell me it would have helped MJ's case in the all time rankings going to play with Isiah in Detroit in his city when Isiah was already a proven winner at the time? I don't think so.

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 11:19 AM
That's exactly what Scottie said. "Mike was the better scorer, LeBron is the better player." Dikembe Mutombo was a better shot blocker than Shaquille O'Neal. But that's only one area. Shaq was obviously the better player.

Even LBJ's best statistical year doesn't come close to MJ's

32, 8, and 8.

I just think it is foolish to say LBJ is the GOAT when he hasn't done anything better than Mike

oak2455
05-27-2011, 11:19 AM
Kind of a bad argument since LBJ is 3rd all time in PPG while Jordan is 1st...

I agree that Jordan is the GOAT...

However, he is the GOAT for more reasons than scoring...

LBJ is a better rebounder than Jordan and a better facilitator overall...

But, Jordan was more purely dominate on both ends of the floor... Jordan was a better defender and scorer...

Talent wise, i'd give the edge to LBJ...

However, like most people have said before, it's was too premature to truely gauge these two...

Did you see Jordan play:confused:when I say play I mean his FULL career not with the Washington Wizards:eyebrow:

Luv Da New Pack
05-27-2011, 11:19 AM
With that being said, Pippen is right. LeBron may be. But it is yet to be determined.

I think the issue with it is not that he just said it but because he started making comparisons as to how Lebron is better than the consensual G.O.A.T. in Jordan.

It goes from being just an opinion to being an argument.

bringinwood
05-27-2011, 11:20 AM
Think about it in these terms...

How many player's in history could have done what LeBron did against the Bull's in that situation ???

Seriously think about it...

I'm going to say two...

LeBron and Jordan...

That's about it...

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 11:20 AM
Kind of a bad argument since LBJ is 3rd all time in PPG while Jordan is 1st...

I agree that Jordan is the GOAT...

However, he is the GOAT for more reasons than scoring...

LBJ is a better rebounder than Jordan and a better facilitator overall...

But, Jordan was more purely dominate on both ends of the floor... Jordan was a better defender and scorer...

Talent wise, i'd give the edge to LBJ...

However, like most people have said before, it's was too premature to truely gauge these two...

just to clarify...I wasn't using that as my argument. I was just shocked when somebody said Lebron could score like Jordan

SoxBearsBulls!
05-27-2011, 11:20 AM
Pippen got carried away...LBJ is easily the best right now and has a chance at top 5 but he needs to get close to MJ achievements and he´s not even close right now.

mikealike305
05-27-2011, 11:20 AM
Where were these opinions when LBJ was in Cleveland? Exactly. This tells you how washed up people are, example, Pippen

lol man youre just so mad about this.
so basiclly your saying that since pippen didnt feel this year last year, its not a good opinion?
good argument guy

oak2455
05-27-2011, 11:21 AM
Is the same Girl Scotty who had a Migraine in Detroit and didnt play:facepalm::facepalm: Tell Scotty get in the game:facepalm:

Jaji
05-27-2011, 11:21 AM
Kind of a bad argument since LBJ is 3rd all time in PPG while Jordan is 1st...

I agree that Jordan is the GOAT...

However, he is the GOAT for more reasons than scoring...

LBJ is a better rebounder than Jordan and a better facilitator overall...

But, Jordan was more purely dominate on both ends of the floor... Jordan was a better defender and scorer...

Talent wise, i'd give the edge to LBJ...

However, like most people have said before, it's was too premature to truely gauge these two...

Jordan a better defender than LeBron? LeBron can guard all 5 positions. And he's a way better shot blocker. Come on we just saw him guard 6'-3" Derrick Rose now he's going to guard 7'-0" Dirk Nowitzki. Could Jordan stay in front of Rose? I guess we'll never know but he certainly couldn't stay in front of Iverson.

bringinwood
05-27-2011, 11:22 AM
Did you see Jordan play:confused:when I say play I mean his FULL career not with the Washington Wizards:eyebrow:

Im pretty sure i'm older than you... lmao


Yes, I followed Jordan's career from NC to his days as a Wizard...

There has never been a more purely talented basketball player in history than LBJ...

Is he better than Jordan ??? No... But, he's more physically gifted than Jordan...

KnicksorBust
05-27-2011, 11:22 AM
I tend to agree with you. Or at least until they are in their later years, and have nailed tons of accomplishments and rings.

Pippen isn't thinking in terms of longevity or career legacy. This more raw than that. He's thinking at their peak... their absolute best... Who can hang with MJ? Clearly he thinks LeBron's skills are a worthy comparison.

In terms of being able to pass, score, shoot, and lock down players from PG to PF... LeBron deserves to be in that conversation.

Hawkeye15
05-27-2011, 11:22 AM
The Cavs team had proven winners on it. Ben Wallace in 2009, Shaq in 2010. And the Heat have 3 allstars who all pretty much have averaged 20+ in series this postseason. Certainly not as much talent as the 80's Lakers/Celtics, but more than the Bulls. Bulls didn't have that luxury, Mj had to be the best player on the floor for the Bulls to win series, with Miami that isn't the case as Wade was the best player on the floor in the Boston series.

you reach with this argument everytime. These guys sucked by then. Cmon JB.

And are you factoring in coach's? Are you really saying the Bulls had less talent? Again, I disagree with you on this.

KnicksorBust
05-27-2011, 11:22 AM
Jordan a better defender than LeBron? LeBron can guard all 5 positions. And he's a way better shot blocker. Come on we just saw him guard 6'-3" Derrick Rose now he's going to guard 7'-0" Dirk Nowitzki. Could Jordan stay in front of Rose? I guess we'll never know but he certainly couldn't stay in front of Iverson.

That's why Iverson knocked Jordan out of the playoffs all those years. :rolleyes:

RaidersLakers24
05-27-2011, 11:23 AM
Excuse me but Scottie pippen had to be kidding on this he's just jealous Jordan gets all the credit for the 6 rings! It's funny how he said Lebron>Jordan but a couple of years ago when they asked him if Kobe>Jordan he laughed and said it wasn't even close! So that proves he's a Lebron nut hugger just as much as pretty much every bandwagoner out there! What this proves to me is that Scottie must be really good friends with Lebron because first he says he wanted the heat to win even though they were playing the team he won 6 championships with? I mean WTF and now this? Please

Lebron won't ever catch Jordan he'll be lucky to even pass Kobe Timmy and shaq he will be in the top 10 but unless he wins 4-5 rings he won't ever be in the top 5...

bringinwood
05-27-2011, 11:23 AM
Jordan a better defender than LeBron? LeBron can guard all 5 positions. And he's a way better shot blocker. Come on we just saw him guard 6'-3" Derrick Rose now he's going to guard 7'-0" Dirk Nowitzki. Could Jordan stay in front of Rose? I guess we'll never know but he certainly couldn't stay in front of Iverson.

You're judging Jordan back in the late 90's....

Put Jordan on Iverson in 1988 and see if he gets crossed up like that...

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 11:24 AM
Jordan a better defender than LeBron? LeBron can guard all 5 positions. And he's a way better shot blocker. Come on we just saw him guard 6'-3" Derrick Rose now he's going to guard 7'-0" Dirk Nowitzki. Could Jordan stay in front of Rose? I guess we'll never know but he certainly couldn't stay in front of Iverson.

What a joke, Lebron is not a better shot blocker than MJ. Rose had more blocks than Lebron on the season. Jordan was the first player to get 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season and did it back to back seasons. Jordan guarded Isiah Thomas when the Bulls played the Pistons. I know you haven't seen the Bulls in the past and just became a fan last summer as you never ever posted in the NBA Forum until Lebron came to the Heat, but get your facts straight.

RaidersLakers24
05-27-2011, 11:24 AM
Lebron is the best player in this era... hands down

0 rings think again! :facepalm:

mikealike305
05-27-2011, 11:25 AM
i think a lot of people here arnt looking it like pippen was looking at it when he made this comment.
people here are saying "he hasnt won enough rings yet" "or hasnt had the same achievements yet"
but i think pippen was looking at it from a pure overall talent standpoint. taking away the rings and award, just look at how they compare talent wise.
then i think he might be right

Jaji
05-27-2011, 11:25 AM
That's why Iverson knocked Jordan out of the playoffs all those years. :rolleyes:

They never played them in the playoffs. So LeBron shut down Rose and knocked him out of the playoffs twice while Jordan got crossed up and never eliminated AI. That's your argument? :eyebrow:

Hawkeye15
05-27-2011, 11:25 AM
Pippen isn't thinking in terms of longevity or career legacy. This more raw than that. He's thinking at their peak... their absolute best... Who can hang with MJ? Clearly he thinks LeBron's skills are a worthy comparison.

In terms of being able to pass, score, shoot, and lock down players from PG to PF... LeBron deserves to be in that conversation.

I made a similar statement to what you just said a few pages back. LeBron's peak is the best we have seen since Jordan. And I do think its comparable. Now, to enter the all time argument, he needs multiple chips, and to continue taking over playoff series like he has this season. That is a huge what-if

oak2455
05-27-2011, 11:26 AM
Im pretty sure i'm older than you... lmao


Yes, I followed Jordan's career from NC to his days as a Wizard...

There has never been a more purely talented basketball player in history than LBJ...

Is he better than Jordan ??? No... But, he's more physically gifted than Jordan...

I disagree but hey thats why we have these discussions, also I think I might be older born in 69 :D

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 11:26 AM
you reach with this argument everytime. These guys sucked by then. Cmon JB.

And are you factoring in coach's? Are you really saying the Bulls had less talent? Again, I disagree with you on this.

The Heat had 3 guys this season who averaged 19+ ppg in the season and playoffs and not to mention a top rate defense. When you got 3 guys that average that much and then you have a top rate defense, what else do you need?

Mile High Champ
05-27-2011, 11:26 AM
I made a similar statement to what you just said a few pages back. LeBron's peak is the best we have seen since Jordan. And I do think its comparable. Now, to enter the all time argument, he needs multiple chips, and to continue taking over playoff series like he has this season. That is a huge what-if

Could not of said it better myself. :clap:

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 11:27 AM
Jordan a better defender than LeBron? LeBron can guard all 5 positions. And he's a way better shot blocker. Come on we just saw him guard 6'-3" Derrick Rose now he's going to guard 7'-0" Dirk Nowitzki. Could Jordan stay in front of Rose? I guess we'll never know but he certainly couldn't stay in front of Iverson.

They both are at .8 blocks per game for their careers...Jordan is a better a defender.

Just curious how old everyone here is...It would be interesting to see the age of the Jordan supporters vs the age of the LBJ supporters. Naturally, I think people will lean toward the player in their generation.

Luv Da New Pack
05-27-2011, 11:27 AM
Think of this though....it's one thing to beat up on a young, inexperienced team with a one-man show in Chicago....and on a hobbled, beat up Celtics missing two of their championship 5 starters....but it's another to beat a team of experienced vets who are hungry because they may never get another shot.

I want to see how they do against the Mavericks before I can really gauge THIS season of Lebrons work.

Jaji
05-27-2011, 11:27 AM
With the 1st pick in the All Time NBA draft... I'm selecting LeBron.

oak2455
05-27-2011, 11:28 AM
0 rings think again! :facepalm:

I agree also beat the Mavs and then he can talk:eyebrow:

Jaji
05-27-2011, 11:28 AM
They both are at .8 blocks per game for their careers...Jordan is a better a defender.

Just curious how old everyone here is...It would be interesting to see the age of the Jordan supporters vs the age of the LBJ supporters. Naturally, I think people will lean toward the player in their generation.

I'm 28. And Jordan could not guard all 5 positions. Sorry.

oak2455
05-27-2011, 11:29 AM
They both are at .8 blocks per game for their careers...Jordan is a better a defender.

Just curious how old everyone here is...It would be interesting to see the age of the Jordan supporters vs the age of the LBJ supporters. Naturally, I think people will lean toward the player in their generation.

great point Cubs fan:D

bringinwood
05-27-2011, 11:30 AM
They both are at .8 blocks per game for their careers...Jordan is a better a defender.

Just curious how old everyone here is...It would be interesting to see the age of the Jordan supporters vs the age of the LBJ supporters. Naturally, I think people will lean toward the player in their generation.

Good point...


However, I don't think people are arguing that LeBron has had a better career than Jordan...

I don't think people are arguing that LBJ is better than Jordan...

I think people are arguing that LBJ has the chance to be better than Jordan...

I, certainly, think he has the capability to be better... Whether or not he is better when all is said and done is a different story...

He has a lot of work to do... lmao...

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 11:31 AM
I'm 28. And Jordan could not guard all 5 positions. Sorry.

Doesn't mean he is a better defender, it just means he may be more versatile. Also who is Lebron guarding at Center? He sure as hell isn't guarding Dwight? And he sure as hell wouldn't be guarding the centers in the 90's with Shaq, Hakeem, DRob, Ewing, Mutombo, Mourning nor the PF in Barkley, Malone, Kemp, etc.

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 11:31 AM
I'm 28. And Jordan could not guard all 5 positions. Sorry.

I too am 28...Lebron is a great defender, but what top centers has he guarded. I think people say he can guard all 5 positions, but I can't recall him shutting down a dominant center. Jordan in his prime can guard ANYONE just as well or better than LBJ

oak2455
05-27-2011, 11:31 AM
I'm 28. And Jordan could not guard all 5 positions. Sorry.

LBJ can guard a Center, Like Magic could??? Did you see Magic play?

Sadds The Gr8
05-27-2011, 11:32 AM
still way to early to tell. people love crowning Lebron before he even does ****.


LeBron is the GOAT, LeBron will be the GOAT. However you wanna say it... its the truth.
lol someone has their tongue a little to far up Lebron's crack right now...

You're judging Jordan back in the late 90's....

Put Jordan on Iverson in 1988 and see if he gets crossed up like that...

+1

IndiansFan337
05-27-2011, 11:33 AM
Lebron is great but he's not even better than MAGIG:D
He is only halfway through his career....


Where were these opinions when LBJ was in Cleveland? Exactly. This tells you how washed up people are, example, Pippen
You weren't listening back then, because people have always discussed this.


Even LBJ's best statistical year doesn't come close to MJ's

32, 8, and 8.

I just think it is foolish to say LBJ is the GOAT when he hasn't done anything better than Mike
Pippen did NOT say LBJ was/is the GOAT. He said that he could be.

And LBJ's best statistical seasons do come close to some of MJ's best. LBJ had a season where he averaged 30-8-7.

kozelkid
05-27-2011, 11:33 AM
athleticism is a big part of his game, but he has a very high basketball IQ, handles the ball well, and his shooting gets better by the year. His decline will be long and steady, not an Iverson dropoff for example.

Lebron's footwork is what will keep him from extending his career like MJ and Kobe did as they developed their post game. Lebron is a phenomenal player and probably the most talented ever or at least right there with Wilt and Shaq. But if he doesn't improve his foot work, I see no way that can continue to be this good as he goes into his 30s like Michael was or even Kobe.

Jaji
05-27-2011, 11:34 AM
Doesn't mean he is a better defender, it just means he may be more versatile. Also who is Lebron guarding at Center? He sure as hell isn't guarding Dwight? And he sure as hell wouldn't be guarding the centers in the 90's with Shaq, Hakeem, DRob, Ewing, Mutombo, Mourning nor the PF in Barkley, Malone, Kemp, etc.

Okay so they're both undoubtedly great defenders but one is more versatile. But the least versatile one is better. With no reason to defend this claim, keep in mind other than LeBron can't guard Shaq? :facepalm:

LeBron could guard Jordan way more effectively than Jordan would have been able to guard LeBron I guarantee that.

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 11:34 AM
great point Cubs fan:D

Hey do you know how hard it is being a Cubs fan??? :)

oak2455
05-27-2011, 11:35 AM
He is only halfway through his career....


You weren't listening back then, because people have always discussed this.


Pippen did NOT say LBJ was/is the GOAT. He said that he could be.

And LBJ's best statistical seasons do come close to some of MJ's best. LBJ had a season where he averaged 30-8-7.

still not better than Magic NOT EVEN CLOSE, go watch the tape:D

Luv Da New Pack
05-27-2011, 11:35 AM
Just curious how old everyone here is...It would be interesting to see the age of the Jordan supporters vs the age of the LBJ supporters. Naturally, I think people will lean toward the player in their generation.

Ahh.....remember the days of "It's the NBA on NBC"?

I just look at the difference in talent level where team now have stars like Kevin Love, Kevin Martin, Michael Redd, Monte Ellis. Would these guys have been franchise players back then?

mikealike305
05-27-2011, 11:35 AM
Doesn't mean he is a better defender, it just means he may be more versatile. Also who is Lebron guarding at Center? He sure as hell isn't guarding Dwight? And he sure as hell wouldn't be guarding the centers in the 90's with Shaq, Hakeem, DRob, Ewing, Mutombo, Mourning nor the PF in Barkley, Malone, Kemp, etc.

well being versatile goes hand and hand will being a good defender.

also, were not in the 90's

and he cant guard dwight, but in todays game dwight isnt the average 5.
he can gurad noah if he had to, and centers similar to that

Hawkeye15
05-27-2011, 11:35 AM
The Heat had 3 guys this season who averaged 19+ ppg in the season and playoffs and not to mention a top rate defense. When you got 3 guys that average that much and then you have a top rate defense, what else do you need?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2011.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1986.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/1987.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1996.html


You keep trying to tell me that the only thing that matters is those 3. Look at these rosters. Up and down. See the differences?

Jaji
05-27-2011, 11:36 AM
LBJ can guard a Center, Like Magic could??? Did you see Magic play?

:confused:

JDMVP
05-27-2011, 11:36 AM
Another thing Scottie said "LeBron MAY BE the greatest to ever play", again MAY BE not yet but MAY BE

MiamiWadeCounty
05-27-2011, 11:37 AM
Listening to Stephan A. Smith on First Take. He is going crazy.

RaidersLakers24
05-27-2011, 11:37 AM
Jordan a better defender than LeBron? LeBron can guard all 5 positions. And he's a way better shot blocker. Come on we just saw him guard 6'-3" Derrick Rose now he's going to guard 7'-0" Dirk Nowitzki. Could Jordan stay in front of Rose? I guess we'll never know but he certainly couldn't stay in front of Iverson.

Wow dude :facepalm:

Jordan>Lebron overall and defensively as well

KingPosey
05-27-2011, 11:37 AM
i think ppl feel this way, but a lot of ppl are scared to say it

no, no one really feels that way. I promise you.

oak2455
05-27-2011, 11:38 AM
Hey do you know how hard it is being a Cubs fan??? :)
Funny story when the Yankees were piss poor in 80's I rooted for the Cubs because I hated the Mets.....I went to Mets day in the 80's(because of my uncle) wore a Cubs hat that was signed by Gary Carter, and he was making fun of the Cubbies..

kozelkid
05-27-2011, 11:38 AM
Okay so they're both undoubtedly great defenders but one is more versatile. But the least versatile one is better. With no reason to defend this claim, keep in mind other than LeBron can't guard Shaq? :facepalm:

LeBron could guard Jordan way more effectively than Jordan would have been able to guard LeBron I guarantee that.

Well since you "guarantee that" it must be true.

Stop talking.

Folks, remember, this is the same guy who said Mark Sanchez is better than Brady. :laugh:

kozelkid
05-27-2011, 11:39 AM
Jordan's first eight years
32.3 points / 6.3 rebounds / 6.0 assists / 2.7 steals / 1.1 blocks / .519 FG / .284 3pt / .847 FT / 29.8 PER (#1)

LeBron James first eight years
27.7 points / 7.1 assists / 7.0 rebounds / 1.7 steals / 0.8 blocks / .479FG / .329 3 pt / .744 / 26.9 PER (#6)

It's not really close. And keep in mind, Jordan played in a far more physical league.

davids22
05-27-2011, 11:40 AM
This is why I never take you seriously. You're delusional man. You're the Skip Bayless of PSD. Not just wrong, ridiculously wrong. Enjoy your offseason.

BAHAHAHA I never made this connection before but JordanBulls is definitely the Skip Bayless of PSD. But cut him some slack, his team just lost and he's obviously in the moment.

oak2455
05-27-2011, 11:40 AM
:confused:

did you see magic johnson play?????

Luv Da New Pack
05-27-2011, 11:41 AM
Folks, remember, this is the same guy who said Mark Sanchez is better than Brady. :laugh:

Ouch. Credibility would definitely take a hit with that one.

Jaji
05-27-2011, 11:41 AM
lol someone has their tongue a little to far up Lebron's crack right now...

:rolleyes:

Young kids are so disrespectful these days. How old are you? 12? 13? I hope you're not 13 because you're a very immature 13 year old if you are.

KingPosey
05-27-2011, 11:42 AM
Jordan a better defender than LeBron? LeBron can guard all 5 positions. And he's a way better shot blocker. Come on we just saw him guard 6'-3" Derrick Rose now he's going to guard 7'-0" Dirk Nowitzki. Could Jordan stay in front of Rose? I guess we'll never know but he certainly couldn't stay in front of Iverson.

stop Jaji, Jordan is a better defender and its not close, and I can say its not close because its fact.

oak2455
05-27-2011, 11:42 AM
Well since you "guarantee that" it must be true.

Stop talking.

Folks, remember, this is the same guy who said Mark Sanchez is better than Brady. :laugh:

Marsha Brady:confused:

Jaji
05-27-2011, 11:42 AM
did you see magic johnson play?????

Yes I watched Magic play but I'm confused because I don't know what that has to do with anything?

:confused:

Sadds The Gr8
05-27-2011, 11:43 AM
:rolleyes:

Young kids are so disrespectful these days. How old are you? 12? 13? I hope you're not 13 because you're a very immature 13 year old if you are.

yea. it's almost as immature as parading around and crowning Lebron the GOAT in the middle of his career wit no rings :facepalm:

you'd think a 28 year old would be smarter...

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 11:43 AM
Ahh.....remember the days of "It's the NBA on NBC"?I just look at the difference in talent level where team now have stars like Kevin Love, Kevin Martin, Michael Redd, Monte Ellis. Would these guys have been franchise players back then?

oh yeah..great stuff

RaidersLakers24
05-27-2011, 11:44 AM
:rolleyes:

Young kids are so disrespectful these days. How old are you? 12? 13? I hope you're not 13 because you're a very immature 13 year old if you are.

Talk about being immature oh the irony lol hypocrite :facepalm:

oak2455
05-27-2011, 11:45 AM
Yes I watched Magic play but I'm confused because I don't know what that has to do with anything?

:confused:

because Magic is better than LBJ, also if you 28 when did you see him play? 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988 thats when he won his titles:D

Jaji
05-27-2011, 11:46 AM
stop Jaji, Jordan is a better defender and its not close, and I can say its not close because its fact.

But again nothing to back this claim up? I just saw LeBron stop the league MVP in back to back games on the last play. A 6'-3" lightning quick PG who I know for sure Jordan wouldn't be able to stay in front of. Now We're going to see him guard a 7 footer with 26 feet range. I know Jordan wouldn't stand a chance at guarding Dirk. Jordan wouldn't stand a chance at guarding LeBron either. LeBron is far too big. LeBron would fair much better guarding Jordan. So that means one on one, LeBron should easily take that.

But you say Jordan is a better defender. Okay, this is where you provide your proof or your argument. Right now it looks like you have none.

heyman321
05-27-2011, 11:46 AM
oh yeah..great stuff

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THE_G.O.A.T.
05-27-2011, 11:48 AM
Is everyone forgetting that Lebron gave up on his hometown team? Is everyone forgetting that Lebron gave up during a critical playoff series against the Celtics? Don't you have to take into account that Lebron gave up on all of his fans and people he grew up with because him, by himself, is not enough to win a ring?

Jordan may have had Pippen, but Pippen is not Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh. The fact is that Jordan won much more with less than Lebron has. Lebron had to go form a "superteam" while Jordan stayed loyal to the people who made him great.

Lebron plays in a much weaker NBA with a much better supporting cast than Jordan ever had. How can you even compare the two.

Lebron may be a better physical body. But he has nowhere near the offensive, defensive talent or desire that MJ had. So all you Heat fan boys go **** yourselves. You're wrong.

Sadds The Gr8
05-27-2011, 11:49 AM
*Intro* DA DA DA DA DA DA DA DAAAAAA BUM BUM BUM BUM BUMMMM BUM BUM BUM BUM BUM BUM DA DA!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZKX-cf_p90&feature=related

greatness.

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 11:49 AM
Okay so they're both undoubtedly great defenders but one is more versatile. But the least versatile one is better. With no reason to defend this claim, keep in mind other than LeBron can't guard Shaq? :facepalm:

LeBron could guard Jordan way more effectively than Jordan would have been able to guard LeBron I guarantee that.

No he could not. Lebron was shut down by Bruce Bowen and held him to a PER of less than 15 in a series and 22 ppg. Paul Pierce held Lebron to 25 ppg on 35% FG in a series. Jordan's lowest average in any playoff series was 26.6 ppg and he NEVER once was outscored in any playoff series by anyone. Wade against Boston outscored Lebron in a series as did Tony Parker in 2007.

BigCityofDreams
05-27-2011, 11:49 AM
Example of Scottie living in the moment.

Lebron's a great player; no doubt, but we're all kidding ourselves to even mention him (let alone ANYONE) in the same area code as MJ.


Also think it's funny that when Phil Jackson says Kobe is on Mike's level= Everyone throws that away, but when Pippen compares Lebron to his Airness everyone's heart skips a beat.

Not a Kobe fan, just making a comparison :shrug:

It's funny but true when Phil brought up Kobe he was trying to motivate him or just stroking his ego but when Scottie says it about Lebron it's not far fetched lol.

spurs4#5
05-27-2011, 11:49 AM
lebron isnt the greatest of all time...as of right now he's up there....coming from pippen really doesnt mean anything...now if mj said it himself that would be something people could talk about

ManRam
05-27-2011, 11:50 AM
Scottie is a bit ahead of himself, for sure, but it isn't tough to argue that LeBron is more well-rounded than Jordan. His main point was LeBron's ability to keep every one of his teammates in the game, and he can certainly do that better than Jordan. Coming from Scottie, that statement holds some weight. He also arguably is a more diverse and able defender, as crazy as that sounds.

But Jordan is Jordan.

Jaji
05-27-2011, 11:51 AM
because Magic is better than LBJ, also if you 28 when did you see him play? 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988 thats when he won his titles:D

I saw him later in his career. I watched him lose to MJ in the Finals. I watched him retire and come back. I bought his starting lineup for my brother when we were kids.

But I don't think Magic was better than LBJ. Magic was great. Often gets overlooked in the GOAT conversation. But Magic wasn't as good a defender or scorer as LeBron. Better facilitator that's it. But the thing is, I think LeBron could lead the league in assists if he focused on doing that. He could lead the league in scoring every year if that was his focus. How many people can say that?

SoxBearsBulls!
05-27-2011, 11:52 AM
Jordan a better defender than LeBron? LeBron can guard all 5 positions. And he's a way better shot blocker. Come on we just saw him guard 6'-3" Derrick Rose now he's going to guard 7'-0" Dirk Nowitzki. Could Jordan stay in front of Rose? I guess we'll never know but he certainly couldn't stay in front of Iverson.


A 35 year old Jordan on a player in his early 20´s...

I wanna see LBJ at 35 stay in front of a smaller quicker guard...

THE_G.O.A.T.
05-27-2011, 11:52 AM
Scottie is a bit ahead of himself, for sure, but it isn't tough to argue that LeBron is more well-rounded than Jordan. His main point was LeBron's ability to keep every one of his teammates in the game, and he can certainly do that better than Jordan. He also arguably is a more diverse and able defender, as crazy as that sounds.

But Jordan is Jordan.

Jordan couldn't get his team involved. He didn't have the talent around him that Lebron has. Pippen was only as good as he was because of Jordan. Jordan did what he had to do to win. Lebron just gives up like he did in CLeveland.

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 11:53 AM
But again nothing to back this claim up? I just saw LeBron stop the league MVP in back to back games on the last play. A 6'-3" lightning quick PG who I know for sure Jordan wouldn't be able to stay in front of. Now We're going to see him guard a 7 footer with 26 feet range. I know Jordan wouldn't stand a chance at guarding Dirk. Jordan wouldn't stand a chance at guarding LeBron either. LeBron is far too big. LeBron would fair much better guarding Jordan. So that means one on one, LeBron should easily take that.

But you say Jordan is a better defender. Okay, this is where you provide your proof or your argument. Right now it looks like you have none.

It is not like LBJ guarded Rose the whole game...lets stop saying he shut him down. Rose was ineffective mostly because of Miami's TEAM D

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 11:54 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2011.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1986.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/1987.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1996.html


You keep trying to tell me that the only thing that matters is those 3. Look at these rosters. Up and down. See the differences?

Lebron has much more talent on his team than MJ ever had and more proven talent at that. No one on the Bulls was more proven than MJ when the Bulls first won titles. Lebron already has Wade who won as the man. So no matter how you slice it, Wade already got it done as the man and it will be seen that Lebron needed someone who could win as the man to win it all.
In Cleveland he even had proven winners on his team in Ben Wallace (led team to title) and Shaq (3x finals mvp and 1x league mvp).
Jordan never played with anyone that won league or finals mvp. Not only that but Wade, Lebron and Bosh were #1, #2 and #4 in PER the season before they joined forces together.

Jaji
05-27-2011, 11:54 AM
Well since you "guarantee that" it must be true.

Stop talking.

Folks, remember, this is the same guy who said Mark Sanchez is better than Brady. :laugh:

:pity:


Ouch. Credibility would definitely take a hit with that one.

Talk about losing credibility... Kozelkid pulling lies straight out of your :moon:. Shameful. That's all you have in the arsenal is ridiculous lies? You're not even worth owning. I'll drop you off at the good will ASAP.

Jay16
05-27-2011, 11:54 AM
Jordan's first eight years
32.3 points / 6.3 rebounds / 6.0 assists / 2.7 steals / 1.1 blocks / .519 FG / .284 3pt / .847 FT / 29.8 PER (#1)

LeBron James first eight years
27.7 points / 7.1 assists / 7.0 rebounds / 1.7 steals / 0.8 blocks / .479FG / .329 3 pt / .744 / 26.9 PER (#6)

It's not really close. And keep in mind, Jordan played in a far more physical league.

Okay then put up Jordan's stats next to Wilt's.
PPG RPG FG%
*37.6 27 RPG 46%
*38.4 27.2 50%
*50.4 25.7 50%
*44.8 24.3 52%
*36.9 22.3 52%

He played in a diferent era as well, but yet the diference in stats between Wilt and Jordan more than make up for that don't they ?

Also you say the league was more difficult but anyone who breathed on Jordan got hit with a tech in those days.

Not fair to make the comparison between Wilt and Jordan nor LeBron and Jordan as to who is the better player. But I know if asked who was the more all around player, it's LeBron. That is due to his position and his build. Can't deny that.

BTW Holy Cr@p are those stats for Wilt real ?????!!!!!????

MiamiWadeCounty
05-27-2011, 11:54 AM
Jordan couldn't get his team involved. He didn't have the talent around him that Lebron has. Pippen was only as good as he was because of Jordan. Jordan did what he had to do to win. Lebron just gives up like he did in CLeveland.

The year Jordan retired Pippen almost led the Bulls to the finals again.

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 11:54 AM
*Intro* DA DA DA DA DA DA DA DAAAAAA BUM BUM BUM BUM BUMMMM BUM BUM BUM BUM BUM BUM DA DA!

I was just humming the same thing

MiamiWadeCounty
05-27-2011, 11:56 AM
Lebron has much more talent on his team than MJ ever had and more proven talent at that. No one on the Bulls was more proven than MJ when the Bulls first won titles. Lebron already has Wade who won as the man. So no matter how you slice it, Wade already got it done as the man and it will be seen that Lebron needed someone who could win as the man to win it all.
In Cleveland he even had proven winners on his team in Ben Wallace (led team to title) and Shaq (3x finals mvp and 1x league mvp).
Jordan never played with anyone that won league or finals mvp. Not only that but Wade, Lebron and Bosh were #1, #2 and #4 in PER the season before they joined forces together.

Are you serious? You can't justify Wallace and Shaq as great teammates when they were in Cleveland.

Jay16
05-27-2011, 11:56 AM
Lebron has much more talent on his team than MJ ever had and more proven talent at that. No one on the Bulls was more proven than MJ when the Bulls first won titles. Lebron already has Wade who won as the man. So no matter how you slice it, Wade already got it done as the man and it will be seen that Lebron needed someone who could win as the man to win it all.
In Cleveland he even had proven winners on his team in Ben Wallace (led team to title) and Shaq (3x finals mvp and 1x league mvp).
Jordan never played with anyone that won league or finals mvp. Not only that but Wade, Lebron and Bosh were #1, #2 and #4 in PER the season before they joined forces together.

So say it right now then "Scotty Pippen was overratted due to Micheal Jordan". Cause basically if you use that arguement then you are saying Pippen was not needed to win those Ships. Is that right ?

Rentzias
05-27-2011, 11:56 AM
But you say Jordan is a better defender. Okay, this is where you provide your proof or your argument. Right now it looks like you have none.

I agree that LeBron may be a more versatile defender because of his size, but it took him five years to become a fixture on the All-Defensive team, while Jordan took three, and was DPoTY that year. LeBron still has quite a few years ahead, so I don't see why he can't surpass him eventually in this argument, but for right now, Jordan.

Don't know if anyone posted the full context of what Pippen said:

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6599168

There's definitely a lot of references to LeBron involving his teammates and getting others involved, and while Pippen could be sincere in that assessment, you also have to remember that there was quite a bit of resentment of Jordan hogging the ball, and I wonder how much that colors Pippen's assessment.

THE_G.O.A.T.
05-27-2011, 11:56 AM
The year Jordan retired Pippen almost led the Bulls to the finals again.

Almost? Who cares?

davids22
05-27-2011, 11:57 AM
Is everyone forgetting that Lebron gave up on his hometown team? Is everyone forgetting that Lebron gave up during a critical playoff series against the Celtics? Don't you have to take into account that Lebron gave up on all of his fans and people he grew up with because him, by himself, is not enough to win a ring?

Jordan may have had Pippen, but Pippen is not Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh. The fact is that Jordan won much more with less than Lebron has. Lebron had to go form a "superteam" while Jordan stayed loyal to the people who made him great.

Lebron plays in a much weaker NBA with a much better supporting cast than Jordan ever had. How can you even compare the two.

Lebron may be a better physical body. But he has nowhere near the offensive, defensive talent or desire that MJ had. So all you Heat fan boys go **** yourselves. You're wrong.

Are you forgetting what he's done this entire playoffs? Oh but he has D-Wade so it's irrelevant, I forgot.

Jaji
05-27-2011, 11:57 AM
It is not like LBJ guarded Rose the whole game...lets stop saying he shut him down. Rose was ineffective mostly because of Miami's TEAM D

I'm talking about when LeBron told Spo he'd guard Rose at the end of game 4. Rose went 0-4 including 2 potential game winners after that point. Then did it again in game 5. But that's not impressive :rolleyes:.

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 11:57 AM
Okay then put up Jordan's stats next to Wilt's.
PPG RPG FG%
*37.6 27 RPG 46%
*38.4 27.2 50%
*50.4 25.7 50%
*44.8 24.3 52%
*36.9 22.3 52%

He played in a diferent era as well, but yet the diference in stats between Wilt and Jordan more than make up for that don't they ?

Also you say the league was more difficult but anyone who breathed on Jordan got hit with a tech in those days.

Not fair to make the comparison between Wilt and Jordan nor LeBron and Jordan as to who is the better player. But I know if asked who was the more all around player, it's LeBron. That is due to his position and his build. Can't deny that.

BTW Holy Cr@p are those stats for Wilt real ?????!!!!!????

No different from LBJ right now

davids22
05-27-2011, 11:58 AM
Almost? Who cares?

Because Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting that year. Meaning he's a lot better then you Bulls fans like to credit him for (trying to say how Lebron has a much better player in Wade then Jordan in Pippen).

LionsFan..LOL
05-27-2011, 11:58 AM
LeBron is the Jordan of his generation but I don't think he will ever be better then MJ.

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 11:58 AM
I'm talking about when LeBron told Spo he'd guard Rose at the end of game 4. Rose went 0-4 including 2 potential game winners after that point. Then did it again in game 5. But that's not impressive :rolleyes:.

I am not saying it is not impressive...it is very impressive. I am not bashing LBJ. You don't think Jordan could do that to a point guard in crunch time in his career?

THE_G.O.A.T.
05-27-2011, 11:59 AM
Are you forgetting what he's done this entire playoffs? Oh but he has D-Wade so it's irrelevant, I forgot.

He hasn't won anything yet so it IS irrelevant. Quit letting your homerism get in the way of the fact that Lebron had his chance to win in the finals being "the man" in Cleveland. But he couldn't get it done by himself, so he had to crawl to Dwayne Wade and kiss his ring.

MiamiWadeCounty
05-27-2011, 11:59 AM
Almost? Who cares?

It goes to show Pippen was a great player and could be great without Jordan. This discredits the notion that without Jordan, Pippen would not be an all-time great.

justinnum1
05-27-2011, 12:00 PM
This is great. I get to watch this guy destroy the league for the next 6 years. Thank you pat riley.

davids22
05-27-2011, 12:00 PM
Are you serious? You can't justify Wallace and Shaq as great teammates when they were in Cleveland.

Especially when Shaq didn't even play 30 minutes a game. And how incredibly washed-up those players were at that point.

THE_G.O.A.T.
05-27-2011, 12:00 PM
Because Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting that year. Meaning he's a lot better then you Bulls fans like to credit him for (trying to say how Lebron has a much better player in Wade then Jordan in Pippen).

3rd in MVP voting. Who cares? Wade+Bosh > Pippen

YankeeClipper5
05-27-2011, 12:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZKX-cf_p90&feature=related

greatness.

Most of my life just flashed before me.

Those were the good ol' days.

Thank you Saddler.

Jaji
05-27-2011, 12:01 PM
No he could not. Lebron was shut down by Bruce Bowen and held him to a PER of less than 15 in a series and 22 ppg. Paul Pierce held Lebron to 25 ppg on 35% FG in a series. Jordan's lowest average in any playoff series was 26.6 ppg and he NEVER once was outscored in any playoff series by anyone. Wade against Boston outscored Lebron in a series as did Tony Parker in 2007.

Wow bringing up what LeBron did when he was 22 years old against the best defense featuring the best perimeter defender in the league :facepalm:. Yeah because LeBron is still that guy.

I would say you're just being emotional because Scottie just added insult to injury but you're usually this irrational so I can't even blame it on that.

Jay16
05-27-2011, 12:01 PM
No different from LBJ right now

Come on dude. You can't tell me that LBJ gets the calls that Jordan got. Ask Bryon Russell who gets better calls. If you can find him after Jordan threw him out of the way. Bron isn't even up to Kobe's standard of calls yet. Don't get me wrong he gets his calls but compared to Jordans' calls.

I'm not making this up but a ref called a foul against Moses Malone 7 years after he retired for shaking Jordans hand. It was just a habbit back then.

Jay16
05-27-2011, 12:01 PM
and yes I was making that up

JayHunter
05-27-2011, 12:02 PM
The NBA was way tougher in Jordan's day. Look at the competition he had to compete with, Bird and co, The Bad Boys, Ewing & The Knicks, Magic, & The Lakers, The Trail Blazers, Hakeem,and the list goes on

MiamiWadeCounty
05-27-2011, 12:02 PM
3rd in MVP voting. Who cares? Wade+Bosh > Pippen

He was third in MVP voting. He isn't just a good player, he is an all-time great. When Jordan played with Pippen, Pippen could be considered a top 10 player of his time.

oak2455
05-27-2011, 12:02 PM
I saw him later in his career. I watched him lose to MJ in the Finals. I watched him retire and come back. I bought his starting lineup for my brother when we were kids.

But I don't think Magic was better than LBJ. Magic was great. Often gets overlooked in the GOAT conversation. But Magic wasn't as good a defender or scorer as LeBron. Better facilitator that's it. But the thing is, I think LeBron could lead the league in assists if he focused on doing that. He could lead the league in scoring every year if that was his focus. How many people can say that?

You didnt see Magic play in his Prime BIG DIFFERENCE :D Your 28 what were you 5 when he won his last title??

THE_G.O.A.T.
05-27-2011, 12:03 PM
Come on dude. You can't tell me that LBJ gets the calls that Jordan got. Ask Bryon Russell who gets better calls. If you can find him after Jordan threw him out of the way. Bron isn't even up to Kobe's standard of calls yet. Don't get me wrong he gets his calls but compared to Jordans' calls.

I'm not making this up but a ref called a foul against Moses Malone 7 years after he retired for shaking Jordans hand. It was just a habbit back then.

Lebron gets more calls than anyone else in the NBA.

Sadds The Gr8
05-27-2011, 12:03 PM
Most of my life just flashed before me.

Those were the good ol' days.

Thank you Saddler.

:nod:

Chrash Davis
05-27-2011, 12:04 PM
Come on dude. You can't tell me that LBJ gets the calls that Jordan got. Ask Bryon Russell who gets better calls. If you can find him after Jordan threw him out of the way. Bron isn't even up to Kobe's standard of calls yet. Don't get me wrong he gets his calls but compared to Jordans' calls.

I'm not making this up but a ref called a foul against Moses Malone 7 years after he retired for shaking Jordans hand. It was just a habbit back then.

I have watched both guys man...I may have a little homerism in that statement, but that phantom foul on rose last night still has me ticked. Maybe I am also mad how Reggie Miller was saying he loves how players act to get fouls

ManRam
05-27-2011, 12:04 PM
Jordan couldn't get his team involved. He didn't have the talent around him that Lebron has. Pippen was only as good as he was because of Jordan. Jordan did what he had to do to win. Lebron just gives up like he did in CLeveland.

LeBron "gave up" once in his career (and while doing so still put up HUGE numbers). Once...maybe. Is he giving up now? No. Has he ever given up besides that? No.

Jordan was an abrasive, far more egotistical and even, according to some accounts, a cancerous teammates. LeBron may have an ego, but no one has ever said he was a bad teammate. He's always helping the team chemistry, he's never selfish (sometimes to a fault) and abrasiveness and cancerous are definitely out of the picture.

Jordan was a better pure scorer. He was more of a "winner". LeBron is just so much more dynamic. He is more versatile on both ends. Is he better on both ends because he's more versatile? I don't know, and I don't think so. But saying Pippen was only as good as he was because of Jordan is crazy. LeBron is easily the better of the two at making his teammates better. He's far less selfish and he's a far better passer. Doesn't make him better, however.

THE_G.O.A.T.
05-27-2011, 12:04 PM
He was third in MVP voting. He isn't just a good player, he is an all-time great. When Jordan played with Pippen, Pippen could be considered a top 10 player of his time.

Just because someone finishes 3rd in MVP voting doesn't make them a top 10 player of all time. You get the double:facepalm::facepalm:

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 12:04 PM
So say it right now then "Scotty Pippen was overratted due to Micheal Jordan". Cause basically if you use that arguement then you are saying Pippen was not needed to win those Ships. Is that right ?

Pippen became great due to playing with Jordan, he even said so himself.

Source: GoogleBooks (http://books.google.com/books?id=aQ84ViBNkYwC&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq=Game+Michael+Jordan+broke+his+leg&source=web&ots=Y9Xtn3nomR&sig=6shSn2cklYKVP1kBaC6nI0A_oko&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA39,M1)




Pippen, unlike other Bulls who usually kept their distance from Jordan, tried to learn all he could from Jordan in practice. In turn, Jordan worked with Pippen on his moves, jump shot, and defense and taught him mental toughness.



Pippen relates on how his game improved - Link (http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/jordanhof_pippen_090910.html)



“He was very competitive, so he went at me and that helped me learn,” said Pippen. “You continue to compete against the very best every day, and you will get better, or you’ll be embarrassed.”


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-krausejordan090909



“Michael was great at identifying things,” Krause said. “Would Pippen have been great someplace else? Michael absolutely killed Scottie in practice every day for his first two years. Mike just tore Pip up. He made Pip learn how to compete and forced him into playing hard. Had there not been someone to challenge Scottie like that, I’m not sure what would’ve happened to him.”

davids22
05-27-2011, 12:05 PM
3rd in MVP voting. Who cares? Wade+Bosh > Pippen

Is that your only argument? WHO CARES WHO CARES? Yeah, Wade+Bosh will probably go down as better then Pippen, but by your logic the 2010-2011 Heat team is better then the 96-97 Bulls team that won 72 games.

The big 3 COULD be better then the Jordan/Pippen combo but in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM is the rest of the Heat team better then that Bulls team.

But lemme guess,
So what?

oak2455
05-27-2011, 12:05 PM
The year Jordan retired Pippen almost led the Bulls to the finals again.

ALMOST:confused: Really Cubs almost made it to the World Series if it wasnt for that fan:D

lakerboy
05-27-2011, 12:05 PM
LMAO. Lebron can't win without Wade. He doesn't even have a ring yet.

Luv Da New Pack
05-27-2011, 12:05 PM
For all of those people who act as if the addition of Wade is irrelevant my question is this:

When was there ever a question as to who "The Man" was on MJ's team?

MiamiWadeCounty
05-27-2011, 12:06 PM
Just because someone finishes 3rd in MVP voting doesn't make them a top 10 player of all time. You get the double:facepalm::facepalm:

I never said top 10 of all-time. I said top 10 of HIS time. :facepalm:

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 12:06 PM
Wow bringing up what LeBron did when he was 22 years old against the best defense featuring the best perimeter defender in the league :facepalm:. Yeah because LeBron is still that guy.

I would say you're just being emotional because Scottie just added insult to injury but you're usually this irrational so I can't even blame it on that.

All he said was what he said in 2006 as well that Lebron can be the greatest ever.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6599168

RaidersLakers24
05-27-2011, 12:07 PM
LeBron is the Jordan of his generation but I don't think he will ever be better then MJ.

I'm sorry but Kobe is this generations Jordan... Kobe actually won Lebron didnt

kozelkid
05-27-2011, 12:07 PM
Okay then put up Jordan's stats next to Wilt's.
PPG RPG FG%
*37.6 27 RPG 46%
*38.4 27.2 50%
*50.4 25.7 50%
*44.8 24.3 52%
*36.9 22.3 52%

He played in a diferent era as well, but yet the diference in stats between Wilt and Jordan more than make up for that don't they ?

Also you say the league was more difficult but anyone who breathed on Jordan got hit with a tech in those days.

Not fair to make the comparison between Wilt and Jordan nor LeBron and Jordan as to who is the better player. But I know if asked who was the more all around player, it's LeBron. That is due to his position and his build. Can't deny that.

BTW Holy Cr@p are those stats for Wilt real ?????!!!!!????

Good try. I'm pointing out PER more than anything. A stat that is adjusted based on league average stats. Wilt's still don't come close. And seriously, you actually are trying to compare the competition that Wilt had to MJ? Really?
MJ might have played in the toughest era EVER.

And people need to end the BS that MJ and Bulls got calls. In fact, the Bulls were consistently in the bottom third of the league regarding fta. The whole stars get calls really didn't start until the beginning of the 2000s when NBA was having trouble due to lack of talent and tried to raise ratings by giving stars more cclls.


:pity:



Talk about losing credibility... Kozelkid pulling lies straight out of your :moon:. Shameful. That's all you have in the arsenal is ridiculous lies? You're not even worth owning. I'll drop you off at the good will ASAP.

I take that back. You were right. What you DID say was "Pats would win more w/ Mark Sanchez than Peyton Manning". Which is just as stupid.

THE_G.O.A.T.
05-27-2011, 12:07 PM
LeBron "gave up" once in his career (and while doing so still put up HUGE numbers). Once...maybe. Is he giving up now? No. Has he ever given up besides that? No.

Jordan was an abrasive, far more egotistical and even, according to some accounts, a cancerous teammates. LeBron may have an ego, but no one has ever said he was a bad teammate. He's always helping the team chemistry, he's never selfish (sometimes to a fault) and abrasiveness and cancerous are definitely out of the picture.

Jordan was a better pure scorer. He was more of a "winner". LeBron is just so much more dynamic. He is more versatile on both ends. Is he better on both ends because he's more versatile? I don't know, and I don't think so. But saying Pippen was only as good as he was because of Jordan is crazy. LeBron is easily the better of the two at making his teammates better. He's far less selfish and he's a far better passer. Doesn't make him better, however.

How do you know this? Links? Or is it just what you think? Quit making **** up to bolster your point.
:facepalm:

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 12:08 PM
The year Jordan retired Pippen almost led the Bulls to the finals again.

If they win the ECF they almost make it to the finals. I mean Joe Johnson almost made it to the finals this year as well as did Zach Randolph they both lost in the Semifinals just like Chi did in 1994. Besides Wade actually led a team to the finals and won it all as the man.

Jaji
05-27-2011, 12:08 PM
I agree that LeBron may be a more versatile defender because of his size, but it took him five years to become a fixture on the All-Defensive team, while Jordan took three, and was DPoTY that year. LeBron still has quite a few years ahead, so I don't see why he can't surpass him eventually in this argument, but for right now, Jordan.

LeBron came to the NBA straight out of HS. MJ went to UNC and was coached by HOFer Dean Smith for 3 years. You know who LeBron's HS coach was? His friend's dad. Who was a little league football coach before that. That argument held little weight before these facts anyway.


Don't know if anyone posted the full context of what Pippen said:

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6599168

There's definitely a lot of references to LeBron involving his teammates and getting others involved, and while Pippen could be sincere in that assessment, you also have to remember that there was quite a bit of resentment of Jordan hogging the ball, and I wonder how much that colors Pippen's assessment.

No way. That statement is easily justified by watching just 1 quarter of each of them. LeBron averaged 9 assists in Cleveland with no real scorers around him. He's definitely a better facilitator.

MiamiWadeCounty
05-27-2011, 12:08 PM
How do you know this? Links? Or is it just what you think? Quit making **** up to bolster your point.
:facepalm:

Jordan is the most arrogant player ever to play in the NBA.

JDMVP
05-27-2011, 12:08 PM
i'm sorry but kobe is this generations jordan... Kobe actually won lebron didnt

+1 amen

THE_G.O.A.T.
05-27-2011, 12:09 PM
I never said top 10 of all-time. I said top 10 of HIS time. :facepalm:

Who said he was a top 10 of his time? Links? Or are you making **** up again? Cause I think Pippen was in the top 100 of his time, but not top 10.

Jahari Kavi
05-27-2011, 12:09 PM
As far as all around game.....Pippen just might be correct

oak2455
05-27-2011, 12:10 PM
LeBron "gave up" once in his career (and while doing so still put up HUGE numbers). Once...maybe. Is he giving up now? No. Has he ever given up besides that? No.

Jordan was an abrasive, far more egotistical and even, according to some accounts, a cancerous teammates. LeBron may have an ego, but no one has ever said he was a bad teammate. He's always helping the team chemistry, he's never selfish (sometimes to a fault) and abrasiveness and cancerous are definitely out of the picture.

Jordan was a better pure scorer. He was more of a "winner". LeBron is just so much more dynamic. He is more versatile on both ends. Is he better on both ends because he's more versatile? I don't know, and I don't think so. But saying Pippen was only as good as he was because of Jordan is crazy. LeBron is easily the better of the two at making his teammates better. He's far less selfish and he's a far better passer. Doesn't make him better, however.

he quit( because his Mom is a HOE) thats a weak argument....MJ is considered the best... now Because the great Scottie you have a Migraine can't play says LBJ is better we believe it:facepalm: come on thats pathetic..

RaidersLakers24
05-27-2011, 12:11 PM
People forget that the triangle limits your assist numbers and that's why Jordan and kobes assist number are about 5-6 on average compared to brons 7... But watch kobes assist numbers skyrocket this year without the triangle! That's why Jordan never really averaged more then 5-6 assist a season

THE_G.O.A.T.
05-27-2011, 12:11 PM
Jordan is the most arrogant player ever to play in the NBA.

Lebron is way way way more arrogant than Jordan. Lebron had a victory celebration before he played a game with the Heat. Lebron put himself on TV for an hour to tell some ******* that he was "taking his talents to south beach" I really hate when Heat fans let their homerism get in the way of facts.

LEBRON HAS STILL NOT WON ANYTHING!

Jaji
05-27-2011, 12:12 PM
If they win the ECF they almost make it to the finals. I mean Joe Johnson almost made it to the finals this year as well as did Zach Randolph they both lost in the Semifinals just like Chi did in 1994. Besides Wade actually led a team to the finals and won it all as the man.

Why do you keep saying that? That sounds so gay. And no, not like Joakim Noah said, I mean really gay. "D Wade was the man :love:." That's pretty gay.

Dwyane Wade played with Shaquille O'Neal, a 3x Finals MVP, himself. Are you kidding me? "The Great" Dwyane Wade hasn't been out of the 1st round since. How's that for "the man?"

Jahari Kavi
05-27-2011, 12:12 PM
The NBA was way tougher in Jordan's day. Look at the competition he had to compete with, Bird and co, The Bad Boys, Ewing & The Knicks, Magic, & The Lakers, The Trail Blazers, Hakeem,and the list goes on
terrible argument...Lakers, Spurs, Pistons, Celtics, etc are no cake walks

AIRMAR72
05-27-2011, 12:12 PM
pip just talking rubbish he should have took is insulant shot for his diabetes before he made those delusional comments maybe his blood sugar level was high when he made those comments its just too hard for anyone to be like MIKE

oak2455
05-27-2011, 12:12 PM
Good try. I'm pointing out PER more than anything. A stat that is adjusted based on league average stats. Wilt's still don't come close. And seriously, you actually are trying to compare the competition that Wilt had to MJ? Really?
MJ might have played in the toughest era EVER.

And people need to end the BS that MJ and Bulls got calls. In fact, the Bulls were consistently in the bottom third of the league regarding fta. The whole stars get calls really didn't start until the beginning of the 2000s when NBA was having trouble due to lack of talent and tried to raise ratings by giving stars more cclls.



I take that back. You were right. What you DID say was "Pats would win more w/ Mark Sanchez than Peyton Manning". Which is just as stupid.
:laugh::laugh: Pure comedy:clap:

davids22
05-27-2011, 12:12 PM
Who said he was a top 10 of his time? Links? Or are you making **** up again? Cause I think Pippen was in the top 100 of his time, but not top 10.

:facepalm:

Jaji
05-27-2011, 12:12 PM
Hey JB if the Mavs win will Jason Kidd's ring count? I mean he left Dallas for some time but it is the team that drafted him. :rolleyes:

Jaji
05-27-2011, 12:14 PM
The NBA was way tougher in Jordan's day. Look at the competition he had to compete with, Bird and co, The Bad Boys, Ewing & The Knicks, Magic, & The Lakers, The Trail Blazers, Hakeem,and the list goes on

LeBron is 6'-8", 260 lbs.

kozelkid
05-27-2011, 12:14 PM
Why do you keep saying that? That sounds so gay. And no, not like Joakim Noah said, I mean really gay. "D Wade was the man :love:." That's pretty gay.

Dwyane Wade played with Shaquille O'Neal, a 3x Finals MVP, himself. Are you kidding me? "The Great" Dwyane Wade hasn't been out of the 1st round since. How's that for "the man?"

Are you kidding me?
Wade did EVERYTHING in the finals. It's why people talk about him having one of the greatest final performances ever. Granted, he got a lot of calls too imo, but he was Jordanesque in those series. Shaq was hardly the reason. Any Miami fan will tell you that.

Jahari Kavi
05-27-2011, 12:14 PM
LMAO. Lebron can't win without Wade. He doesn't even have a ring yet.

people can't really be this lame can they?

Jkid56
05-27-2011, 12:15 PM
Look, you got to forgive Pippen. He was either high, on some type of drug or Riley gave him a wad of cash and told him to say it. I have watched ALL of Jordans years with the Bulls and he IS THE GOAT Period

To quote the trailer from Bad Teachers:

"Call me when Lebron has six championship rings"

"IS that your only argument?"

"Its the ONLY argument i need Sean!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

:D

redsox0717
05-27-2011, 12:15 PM
And Pippen might be the worst analyst to ever play the game

kozelkid
05-27-2011, 12:15 PM
Well this thread went to the ****ter. Who didn't see that coming.

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 12:16 PM
LeBron came to the NBA straight out of HS. MJ went to UNC and was coached by HOFer Dean Smith for 3 years. You know who LeBron's HS coach was? His friend's dad. Who was a little league football coach before that. That argument held little weight before these facts anyway.



No way. That statement is easily justified by watching just 1 quarter of each of them. LeBron averaged 9 assists in Cleveland with no real scorers around him. He's definitely a better facilitator.

Anyone can average 9 apg when they have the ball in their hands 18-20 seconds per possession. And I mean damn, you say he averaged that in Cleveland with all the shooters they had but yet even with more talent on this team why didn't he average that many assists?

Jaji
05-27-2011, 12:16 PM
I take that back. You were right. What you DID say was "Pats would win more w/ Mark Sanchez than Peyton Manning". Which is just as stupid.

Ooohhhhh. So reading comprehension is your problem. That explains it.

davids22
05-27-2011, 12:16 PM
Dwyane Wade played with Shaquille O'Neal, a 3x Finals MVP, himself. Are you kidding me? "The Great" Dwyane Wade hasn't been out of the 1st round since. How's that for "the man?"

JordansBulls acts like Wade didn't want Lebron on his team at all and is just going along with what the front office did. Wade knew he was only getting older and that he wanted to win, just like Lebron wanted to win. He doesn't understand that Lebron doesn't want to be Jordan at all. Maybe he did at one point (which is why he wore 23) and got that tattoo, but he was just buying into all the hype that the media gave him.

The media and the fans love to associate Lebron with MJ, but Lebron doesn't at all. He just wants to win and doesn't care how he does it. He doesn't care if he's not considered the man. His numbers speak for themself. Did no one get the meaning of his Nike Rise commercial? Let him do his thing and get off his back about being the next MJ, because he's not.

oak2455
05-27-2011, 12:17 PM
LeBron is 6'-8", 260 lbs.

and quits when his Mom sleeps with Delonte :facepalm:

Luv Da New Pack
05-27-2011, 12:17 PM
I'm talking about when LeBron told Spo he'd guard Rose at the end of game 4. Rose went 0-4 including 2 potential game winners after that point. Then did it again in game 5. But that's not impressive :rolleyes:.

Actually...it's okay.....not all that impressive because you're guarding a player 6 inches shorter who has no team support. Did he steal the ball? Did he block the shot? He contested a shot in a one-on-one scenario.


Jordan is the most arrogant player ever to play in the NBA.

What makes you say that?

Jahari Kavi
05-27-2011, 12:17 PM
And give me Bron on defense....for those of us old enough to remember the 91 finals you should know Pippen had to switch to Magic after game 1 cause Jordan wasn't big enough and couldn't guard him without fouling

THE_G.O.A.T.
05-27-2011, 12:17 PM
Look, you got to forgive Pippen. He was either high, on some type of drug or Riley gave him a wad of cash and told him to say it. I have watched ALL of Jordans years with the Bulls and he IS THE GOAT Period

To quote the trailer from Bad Teachers:

"Call me when Lebron has six championship rings"

"IS that your only argument?"

"Its the ONLY argument i need Sean!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

:D

Are you really quoting a Cameron Diaz comedy to prove your point that the Heat are good? :facepalm: You should be ashamed of yourself. Maybe you can go rewatch your dvd of "what happens in vegas" so you can plagerize some insight from there too.

oak2455
05-27-2011, 12:19 PM
And give me Bron on defense....for those of us old enough to remember the 91 finals you should know Pippen had to switch to Magic after game 1 cause Jordan wasn't big enough and couldn't guard him without fouling

pretty sure thats when Magic was towards the end of his career:eyebrow:

davids22
05-27-2011, 12:20 PM
Are you really quoting a Cameron Diaz comedy to prove your point that the Heat are good? :facepalm: You should be ashamed of yourself.

Hey I can use the facepalm in every post too to make myself look correct!
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:

Seriously dude, you can't even talk civil to a Heat fan who is ADMITTING THAT LEBRON WILL NEVER BE JORDAN.

Jkid56
05-27-2011, 12:20 PM
Are you really quoting a Cameron Diaz comedy to prove your point that the Heat are good? :facepalm: You should be ashamed of yourself.

Dude, i am talking about Jordan. Lebron WISHES he had six rings! I am talking about MJ. The MAN, The MYTH, THE ALL-TIME LEGEND!

Max Power
05-27-2011, 12:20 PM
If Pippen is talking from a scouting report point of view, he may be correct. Grading physical tools, different abilities, etc.

But there are plenting of guys who would've graded out better than Larry Bird in those things. But they aren't better basketball players than him.

Sometimes you have to look a little past the mere physical tools and look at other things that are very hard to put in a quantitative text as well. Killer instinct, will, whether or not the guy will quit when the going gets a little rough.

The physical abilities get you there. the other stuff + the physical is what makes legends. Give it time, we'll find out if LeBron belongs in the discussion with MJ, Bird, Magic, and Kobe.

The Final Boss
05-27-2011, 12:20 PM
Isn't this the same alien-looking stiff who said HE was better than Jordan? Lol C'mon man!

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 12:21 PM
Why do you keep saying that? That sounds so gay. And no, not like Joakim Noah said, I mean really gay. "D Wade was the man :love:." That's pretty gay.

Dwyane Wade played with Shaquille O'Neal, a 3x Finals MVP, himself. Are you kidding me? "The Great" Dwyane Wade hasn't been out of the 1st round since. How's that for "the man?"

Yes but Lebron hasn't been out of round 1 without Big Z either.:p

Yes I understand Wade has played with Shaq, but Shaq came to Miami not the other way around.

How would it had looked for MJ to go play with Isiah Thomas in 1990 in Detroit when the Isiah brought them a title vs Isiah going to play in Chicago? Or how would it had looked for Dirk to leave Dallas and go play with Kobe in LA or Dwight leaving Orlando to go play with Kobe in LA a proven winner.

Do you honestly think that would help Dirk in his argument all time to Tim Duncan at PF or help Dwight all time in his arguments to Russell, Hakeem, etc for better center?

Do you honestly think it would help Rose's case if he left Chicago to play with Dwight in Orlando or Durant in Oklahoma City in comparison to all time great PG's vs Dwight or Durant coming to Chicago to play with Rose? I sure as hell don't think it would help him.

Jaji
05-27-2011, 12:21 PM
Are you kidding me?
Wade did EVERYTHING in the finals. It's why people talk about him having one of the greatest final performances ever. Granted, he got a lot of calls too imo, but he was Jordanesque in those series. Shaq was hardly the reason. Any Miami fan will tell you that.

So what? Scottie Pippen just said LeBron James is better than Jordan. Dwyane Wade will never be in any GOAT conversations ever. To say LeBron went to Miami to ride D Wade's coattails is ridiculous. Miami is LeBron's team. It's LeBron and the Heat, no longer Wade and the Heat. For as great as Wade was in those Finals, he still hadn't been out of the 1st round since then until when? Oh this year... when they signed LeBron.

Jkid56
05-27-2011, 12:22 PM
Hey I can use the facepalm in every post too to make myself look correct!
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:

Seriously dude, you can't even talk civil to a Heat fan who is ADMITTING THAT LEBRON WILL NEVER BE JORDAN.

I DO NOT ride Lebron's jock. I am a student of the game and NOT a homer. Seriously, when and IF Lebron gets six rings THEN we can talk about his GOAT status. Right now, he is not even a topic let alone an argument to the debate

GreatMustachio1
05-27-2011, 12:24 PM
My vote is for Tom Chambers.


In other news, how long has Stephen A. Smith been back with ESPN?
This guy is hilarious.

kozelkid
05-27-2011, 12:25 PM
Ooohhhhh. So reading comprehension is your problem. That explains it.

Not really. I just forgot. Happened awhile ago. :shrug:

Doesn't change the fact that you have history of putrid player analysis. Hence it's pointless to debate with you.

davids22
05-27-2011, 12:25 PM
I DO NOT ride Lebron's jock. I am a student of the game and NOT a homer. Seriously, when and IF Lebron gets six rings THEN we can talk about his GOAT status. Right now, he is not even a topic let alone an argument to the debate

I know, I was defending you. That guy is such a donk who keeps facepalming you. It's common knowledge that Lebron isn't MJ but Bulls fans have turned this into a "Well MJ wouldn't have done this or that!!" or "HERE IS PROOF WHY MJ IS BETTER" when there is nothing to prove, we all agree with that. This thread will get closed in another hour or so.

Tuck&Rolle
05-27-2011, 12:26 PM
If you Miami or Lebron fans are buying this then you know nothing. Pippen was always and will always be mad about the attention Jordan got over him. If your going to compare anyone in the NBA to Jordan then its Kobe, Lebron isn't even close. Remember him?

Jahari Kavi
05-27-2011, 12:26 PM
pretty sure thats when Magic was towards the end of his career:eyebrow:

so what....the fact is Jordan couldn't guard even at that stage of his career....and Magic was still awesome then

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 12:27 PM
So what? Scottie Pippen just said LeBron James is better than Jordan. Dwyane Wade will never be in any GOAT conversations ever. To say LeBron went to Miami to ride D Wade's coattails is ridiculous. Miami is LeBron's team. It's LeBron and the Heat, no longer Wade and the Heat. For as great as Wade was in those Finals, he still hadn't been out of the 1st round since then until when? Oh this year... when they signed LeBron.

He didn't say that.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6599168



But I may go as far as to say LeBron James may be the greatest player to ever play the game because he is so potent offensively that not only can he score at will but he keeps everybody involved.


If he said Lebron was better than Jordan he would have said Lebron James is the greatest player to ever play the game. Which he is not.

Jahari Kavi
05-27-2011, 12:28 PM
If you Miami or Lebron fans are buying this then you know nothing. Pippen was always and will always be mad about the attention Jordan got over him. If your going to compare anyone in the NBA to Jordan then its Kobe, Lebron isn't even close. Remember him?

as a scorer yes...but Pippen is talking about all around game...u people are missing the point

Jaji
05-27-2011, 12:28 PM
Yes but Lebron hasn't been out of round 1 without Big Z either.:p

Yes I understand Wade has played with Shaq, but Shaq came to Miami not the other way around.

How would it had looked for MJ to go play with Isiah Thomas in 1990 in Detroit when the Isiah brought them a title vs Isiah going to play in Chicago? Or how would it had looked for Dirk to leave Dallas and go play with Kobe in LA or Dwight leaving Orlando to go play with Kobe in LA a proven winner.

Do you honestly think that would help Dirk in his argument all time to Tim Duncan at PF or help Dwight all time in his arguments to Russell, Hakeem, etc for better center?

Here was the choice. We can all get together and play in Cleveland or we can all get together and play in Miami. Would it be different if they all went to Cleveland? Other than the weather and the women? What difference does it matter who drafted who? LeBron was never going to win in Cleveland. No other players were going to go there. Boston acquired 3 HOFers he had to compete with. Only 1 of them was drafted by Boston (not that that means anything to me but apparently it does to you). Meanwhile, Chris Bosh told LeBron he would love to play with him, just not in Cleveland. The talent simply wasn't there and it wasn't coming. Now that the Heat are in the Finals its all his team. When they were 9-8 the Heat sucked, had no 1 or 5 and no bench. And they needed a new coach.

You are acting as if the Heat were title contenders without LeBron. The Heat are in the Finals because of LeBron. And whatever team he went to would have been in the mix, just as the garbage Cavs were.

Jahari Kavi
05-27-2011, 12:29 PM
He didn't say that.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6599168



If he said Lebron was better than Jordan he would have said Lebron James is the greatest player to ever play the game. Which he is not.

thank you.

DeadlyVeyerus31
05-27-2011, 12:30 PM
Lebron isn't even the best player in the NBA right now. Dwight Howard is and I would love to see Lebron try and stop him.

cowboyz180
05-27-2011, 12:30 PM
wow, thats surprising.... I still think Lebron has a long ways to go before he can become better than MJ. If he had won a couple titles with Cleveland (a team without Dwade or chris Bosh), then he would have been closer.