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Avenged
05-27-2011, 02:01 AM
I've read numerous times here that with a ring, Lebron would cement himself in the top 10 discussion.. We've all heard or talked about Lebron at some point being compared to all-time greats when he wins his first ring, but what about Wade winning his 2nd? What impact would his legacy take winning 2 in terms of comparisons to other all-time greats and rankings of all-time?

DoJoTheSlasher
05-27-2011, 02:02 AM
Top 50.

Raph12
05-27-2011, 02:07 AM
Lebron definitely wouldn't make my Top 10 overall, he's already among my Top 10 statistically...

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 02:21 AM
I've read numerous times here that with a ring, Lebron would cement himself in the top 10 discussion.. We've all heard or talked about Lebron at some point being compared to all-time greats when he wins his first ring, but what about Wade winning his 2nd? What impact would his legacy take winning 2 in terms of comparisons to other all-time greats and rankings of all-time?

Lebron will not be in the top 10 with a ring. Maybe top 18 with one. How the hell does he surpass any of these guys in the top 10 with a ring?

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe

That's 10 guys right there with longer primes and better careers than him.

Then you add in guys like Dr J, Moses Malone, Bob Pettit, George Mikan, etc.

Sadds The Gr8
05-27-2011, 02:22 AM
lebron will not be in the top 10 with a ring. Maybe top 18 with one. How the hell does he surpass any of these guys in the top 10 with a ring?

Mj
kareem
russell
magic
wilt
bird
hakeem
duncan
shaq
kobe

that's 10 guys right there with longer primes and better careers than him.

Then you add in guys like dr j, moses malone, bob pettit, george mikan, etc.
+1

shizzle09
05-27-2011, 02:26 AM
top 50.

x2

John Walls Era
05-27-2011, 02:27 AM
Can't see him in the top 10. Maybe top 30?

12evolution 9
05-27-2011, 03:42 AM
Wade is already the best SG in the game. ... WADE will never get the credit he deserves... He is the best... ya he had a difficult series, but he finished big on the defensive level and came through at end of games.....

...Wade doesnt get enough credit on what he is doing and what he has done...

Chronz
05-27-2011, 03:51 AM
Surpasses Jerry West

Ebbs
05-27-2011, 03:56 AM
Depends on how he gets the ring. If they win but Lebrom clearly out plays him across the board while Wade takes a back seat won't do much for his legacy IMO

Venomous88
05-27-2011, 03:57 AM
Lmfao top 50? Really? The hate or lack of credit gets just because he is an inconsistent jump shooter is pathetic. If he gets another ring, he will definitely be top 30. His career PPG is top 15 and how many guards do you know averaged 25+,5+,5+ throughout 8 seasons. 7 time All NBA,7 time All Star,2 All NBA Defense, Finals MVP, All Star Game MVP, and you're telling me with another ring and potentially a Finals MVP, he would only crack top 50? Get out of here with that. I see Wade finishing Top 15 by the end of his career (expecting him to finish with 3+ rings) as the 3rd best SG to ever play the game. Please stop the hate

magic0320
05-27-2011, 04:20 AM
We have seen so many player do well till they are around 29 ish Wade won't be top 15 or top 40 all time until he can keep this up more than 10+ years.

magic0320
05-27-2011, 04:21 AM
We have seen so many player do well till they are around 29 ish and dis Wade won't be top 15 or top 40 all time until he can keep this up more than 10+ years.

210Don
05-27-2011, 04:26 AM
i say hes ahead of lebron tbh....
he would have given bron his first ring.
top 25

D-Amazins
05-27-2011, 04:31 AM
You don't know what his legacy be because he has alot to go. He's not a player at the last stage of their career you know..this thread could be pointless if he wins his 3rd ring.

Apophis
05-27-2011, 04:42 AM
Lebron will not be in the top 10 with a ring. Maybe top 18 with one. How the hell does he surpass any of these guys in the top 10 with a ring?

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe

That's 10 guys right there with longer primes and better careers than him.

Then you add in guys like Dr J, Moses Malone, Bob Pettit, George Mikan, etc.

100% right ^^^

eugene
05-27-2011, 05:04 AM
I don't know, Wade just silently playing great... And without this promotional James's crap. That's why I like Wade much more

Bruno
05-27-2011, 05:15 AM
Lebron will not be in the top 10 with a ring. Maybe top 18 with one. How the hell does he surpass any of these guys in the top 10 with a ring?

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe

That's 10 guys right there with longer primes and better careers than him.

Then you add in guys like Dr J, Moses Malone, Bob Pettit, George Mikan, etc.

x2. W/ a ring I'd say LeBron cements himself as a top 20 player (all before his 27th birthday). I think he could be argued as high as top 15 as well (depending your player rating values).

It's just a matter of time before he cracks the top 10...


Surpasses Jerry West

x2. Wade cements himself as the 3rd great SG in the history of the league, IMO (counting O as a PG).

I think Wade cracks top 20-30 with his second ring. If he lands his second Finals MVP I'd put him closer to the 20th range. Not a lot of players have more than one Finals MVP.

camador22
05-27-2011, 07:24 AM
Top 15 without a doubt. 3 titles and he's cemented in the top 10

Me and Mr. T
05-27-2011, 08:12 AM
Wade is already the best SG in the game. ... WADE will never get the credit he deserves... He is the best... ya he had a difficult series, but he finished big on the defensive level and came through at end of games.....

...Wade doesnt get enough credit on what he is doing and what he has done...

Kobe > Wade

I remember in 06 some Heat fans were saying Wade was the best player in the NBA and I fell on the floor laughing. He's still not even close to the best SG in the league.

Me and Mr. T
05-27-2011, 08:13 AM
x2. W/ a ring I'd say LeBron cements himself as a top 20 player (all before his 27th birthday). I think he could be argued as high as top 15 as well (depending your player rating values).

It's just a matter of time before he cracks the top 10...



x2. Wade cements himself as the 3rd great SG in the history of the league, IMO (counting O as a PG).

I think Wade cracks top 20-30 with his second ring. If he lands his second Finals MVP I'd put him closer to the 20th range. Not a lot of players have more than one Finals MVP.

Sorry but Lebron would have to win a LOT of rings before he's even close to top 10 of all-time. He hasn't even gotten one yet so let's hold off for now on the top 10 of all-time.

Khalifa21
05-27-2011, 08:29 AM
i say hes ahead of lebron tbh....
he would have given bron his first ring.
top 25

No... LeBron would have given Wade his second ring.

After watching these playoffs, there's no doubt in my mind who's team this is and who plays MJ and Pippen.

MiamiWadeCounty
05-27-2011, 08:29 AM
Sorry but Lebron would have to win a LOT of rings before he's even close to top 10 of all-time. He hasn't even gotten one yet so let's hold off for now on the top 10 of all-time.


I don't think he would have to win for than 2 and 2X Finals MVPS to be considered top 10. Analysts were saying that if he wins 5 or more, he has a chance to be considered top 2.

Mile High Champ
05-27-2011, 09:03 AM
Wade is 28 years old, why on earth are we talking about a players legacy at the age of 28. I absolutely hate these kind of threads. Please let a player enter the twilight of their career before bringing up these kind of discussions. I don't understand it one bit.

daleja424
05-27-2011, 09:05 AM
Wade is already top 50. I think two rings would get him on the top 25. If him and lebron win several rings then wade starts to creep towards that top 10, though he probably won't be able to actually get into the top 10.

69centers
05-27-2011, 09:13 AM
x2. W/ a ring I'd say LeBron cements himself as a top 20 player (all before his 27th birthday). I think he could be argued as high as top 15 as well (depending your player rating values).

It's just a matter of time before he cracks the top 10...



x2. Wade cements himself as the 3rd great SG in the history of the league, IMO (counting O as a PG).

I think Wade cracks top 20-30 with his second ring. If he lands his second Finals MVP I'd put him closer to the 20th range. Not a lot of players have more than one Finals MVP.

LMAO here. :crazy:

Jordan, Kobe, West, Iverson, Havlicek, and The Iceman were all better than Wade, and you can even throw Drexler in the mix. That's 6th or 7th best that Wade could ever even hope for.

twoearl
05-27-2011, 09:39 AM
I've read numerous times here that with a ring, Lebron would cement himself in the top 10 discussion.. We've all heard or talked about Lebron at some point being compared to all-time greats when he wins his first ring, but what about Wade winning his 2nd? What impact would his legacy take winning 2 in terms of comparisons to other all-time greats and rankings of all-time?

Great post! I really feel, DWade is NOT talked about enough by the media and even here on PSD. It's always kobe this or lebron that. But Wade I feel is just as good as Lebron. No he is not as big or strong but they are essentially the same player.

And people forget how he completely dominated the 06 finals. If he gets a second ring He should at least be in the Top 10 of SG's of all time IMO.

MiamiWadeCounty
05-27-2011, 09:47 AM
LMAO here. :crazy:

Jordan, Kobe, West, Iverson, Havlicek, and The Iceman were all better than Wade, and you can even throw Drexler in the mix. That's 6th or 7th best that Wade could ever even hope for.

1. Iverson is considered a scoring PG first.
2. Havlicek was more of a small forward.
2. Gervin average 25 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 2.6 APG with no titles. Wade is averaging 25.4 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 6.3 APG thus far with one title. Also this thread is based on the fact IF he wins his second titles. Better numbers and two rings compared to no rings.
3. Clyde won one title, if Wade wins two then he has the edge there.

koreancabbage
05-27-2011, 09:59 AM
well, Wade is defintely Pippen to Lebron's Jordan.

this is Lebron's team for sure. Wade has disappeared in stretches and has been forcing the issue so much instead of the game coming to him. They would have a better to score if Wade passed it to Bosh. (when Lebron was resting)

69centers
05-27-2011, 10:01 AM
1. Iverson is considered a scoring PG first.
2. Havlicek was more of a small forward.
2. Gervin average 25 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 2.6 APG with no titles. Wade is averaging 25.4 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 6.3 APG thus far with one title. Also this thread is based on the fact IF he wins his second titles. Better numbers and two rings compared to no rings.
3. Clyde won one title, if Wade wins two then he has the edge there.

Iverson is usually considered a shooting guard. Google top PG's of all time and he's never on those lists. Google top SG's all time and that's where his name always is.

Havlicek was only 6'5" and played both small forward and shooting guard.

Gervin also played 6 seasons in the ABA, so his stats can't accurately compare.

Mile High Champ
05-27-2011, 10:04 AM
1. Iverson is considered a scoring PG first.
2. Havlicek was more of a small forward.
2. Gervin average 25 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 2.6 APG with no titles. Wade is averaging 25.4 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 6.3 APG thus far with one title. Also this thread is based on the fact IF he wins his second titles. Better numbers and two rings compared to no rings.
3. Clyde won one title, if Wade wins two then he has the edge there.

Who cares if he wins another title, Wade is only 28. How can anyone honestly say with a straight face that Wade is better than any of the all time greats that have played the SG position. I would much rather have guys like Jordan, Bryant, Jerry West, Gervin, Iverson, Drexler, Ray Allen & Reggie Miller.

Why can't people wait for a paler to end his career before anointing him with these preposterous legacies. We have no idea what Wade's game will be like in a few years. What if he suffers a career threatening injury like Brandon Roy did? What if he experiences personal problems and fails to deliver later in his career. Anything can happen and things can change quickly.

LA_Raiders
05-27-2011, 10:33 AM
1 more than LeBroom If they win... But His legacy will be marked because of his coward act of bringing Bosh and Lebroom to miami.

showtym24
05-27-2011, 10:46 AM
Top 25

IrespectNumber3
05-27-2011, 10:59 AM
Top 25....After Jordan and Kobe I dont know a 2 guard any better...and im really thinking hard here

CavsYanksDuke
05-27-2011, 11:02 AM
You guys really think LeBron is done after this year? You aren't expecting any more from him? This team will be STACKED in two years, then guess what? THESE GUYS HAVE THREE MORE YEARS SIGNED AFTER THAT.

Mile High Champ
05-27-2011, 11:03 AM
You guys really think LeBron is done after this year? You aren't expecting any more from him? This team will be STACKED in two years, then guess what? THESE GUYS HAVE THREE MORE YEARS SIGNED AFTER THAT.

We are talking about Wade. Also your caps lock is not needed, we can read the regular font just fine.

JordansBulls
05-27-2011, 11:06 AM
Who cares if he wins another title, Wade is only 28. How can anyone honestly say with a straight face that Wade is better than any of the all time greats that have played the SG position. I would much rather have guys like Jordan, Bryant, Jerry West, Gervin, Iverson, Drexler, Ray Allen & Reggie Miller.

Why can't people wait for a paler to end his career before anointing him with these preposterous legacies. We have no idea what Wade's game will be like in a few years. What if he suffers a career threatening injury like Brandon Roy did? What if he experiences personal problems and fails to deliver later in his career. Anything can happen and things can change quickly.

There is no way guys like Iverson, Gervin, Ray Allen or Reggie Miller are better than Wade.

Mile High Champ
05-27-2011, 11:11 AM
There is no way guys like Iverson, Gervin, Ray Allen or Reggie Miller are better than Wade.

Why on earth not? Look at the career stats. I am not saying Wade could not surpass any of these players but he is no way ahead of the likes of the players I mentioned at the age of 28. It is beyond disrespectful to put Wade in the company of those players. He simply does not belong (Yet).

I am so tired of young kids (Not you) anointing the current star players of the league with being top 10 players all time.

KnicksorBust
05-27-2011, 11:12 AM
SG:
1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Havlicek
5. Wade

He makes the top 30 all-time and the top 5 SGs with plenty of time to pass #4 and #3.

KnicksorBust
05-27-2011, 11:16 AM
Why on earth not? Look at the career stats. I am not saying Wade could not surpass any of these players but he is no way ahead of the likes of the players I mentioned at the age of 28. It is beyond disrespectful to put Wade in the company of those players. He simply does not belong (Yet).

I am so tired of young kids (Not you) anointing the current star players of the league with being top 10 players all time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=wadedw01&y1=2011&p2=millere01&y2=2005&p3=gervige01&y3=1986&p4=iversal01&y4=2010&p5=allenra02&y5=2011

Wade has a significantly better career PER than Miller/Allen/Gervin/Iverson and he's MILES better as a defender than Miller (atrocious), Gervin (embarassing), Iverson (a joke), and Allen (the best of what's left).

Mile High Champ
05-27-2011, 11:19 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=wadedw01&y1=2011&p2=millere01&y2=2005&p3=gervige01&y3=1986&p4=iversal01&y4=2010&p5=allenra02&y5=2011

Wade has a significantly better career PER than Miller/Allen/Gervin/Iverson and he's MILES better as a defender than Miller (atrocious), Gervin (embarassing), Iverson (a joke), and Allen (the best of what's left).

Again that is one statistic. I am not saying that Wade is not going to one day be at the level but I do not believe he is at that point as of yet. Your PER is bound to drop as you get older and play into your mid 30's. Wade's PER will not be 25 when he retires, I will guarantee that.

KnicksorBust
05-27-2011, 11:27 AM
Again that is one statistic. I am not saying that Wade is not going to one day be at the level but I do not believe he is at that point as of yet. Your PER is bound to drop as you get older and play into your mid 30's. Wade's PER will not be 25 when he retires, I will guarantee that.

PER is 20 statistics in one. You can't degrade it like that, you know that MHC.

Wade's career PER is 25.7.
NONE of those players ever had ONE SEASON over 25. That tells you how much better he is.

LTBaByyy
05-27-2011, 11:28 AM
Obviously Wade is overrated.

Some of you are saying wade will be close to top 10 players of all time with 3 titles??? Haha

Wow, clearly yall are younger than 20 years old

LTBaByyy
05-27-2011, 11:29 AM
Look at Wade without Shaq and Lebron/Bosh

MiamiWadeCounty
05-27-2011, 11:35 AM
Obviously Wade is overrated.

Some of you are saying wade will be close to top 10 players of all time with 3 titles??? Haha

Wow, clearly yall are younger than 20 years old

Wade will never be a top 10 player of all-time coming from a Heat fan and huge Wade supporter. However, if he grabs one or two more rings he could be considered the third best SG of all-time with MJ and Kobe ahead.

Jkid56
05-27-2011, 11:37 AM
Look at Wade without Shaq and Lebron/Bosh

Look at Jordan/Kobe without Pippen/Shaq :D

Mile High Champ
05-27-2011, 11:37 AM
PER is 20 statistics in one. You can't degrade it like that, you know that MHC.

Wade's career PER is 25.7.
NONE of those players ever had ONE SEASON over 25. That tells you how much better he is.

Yes it is and I do realize that. PER is a fantastic stat but it also has its issues, mostly that the stat rewards shooters that attempt a lot of shots and does nothing to penalize them for it.

Yes it is an impressive number but I just don't see Wade maintaining that rate his whole career. Only 5 players have finished their career with a PER over 25, I am not sure Wade will join that company.

Wade is also a terrible outside shooter and relies mostly on his athleticism to get his points. That changes when you get older, he won't be able to rely on that quick first step. I honestly have no idea what Wade's game will be like in 3-5 years time so I have a problem putting him ahead of some HOF's and the allstars I mentioned.

I just want to be clear, I like Wade and his game and I could see him one day joining some very elite company, just not yet.

LTBaByyy
05-27-2011, 11:38 AM
I say top 25 at best!!!!

Some of yall say Dirk will be top 30 but say Wade will be top 10/15 is crazy to me

Rentzias
05-27-2011, 11:45 AM
Surpasses Jerry West

Might have to disagree here. Numbers are pretty close (but I think a bit more solid for West) through the same point in their careers, but West had been to his 5th Finals at that same point, and went to four more.
If we only stay to that point, I still lean West although the one ring > five finals appearances might be a tough thing to deal with, but nine appearances, 1 ring, in the end, might keep West there for me when it's all said and done.
Might just be my Jerry West bias, but dude was a beast.

LTBaByyy
05-27-2011, 11:48 AM
Everyone is obviously underrating the NBA logo!!!!!

He will always be the 3rd best SG

justinnum1
05-27-2011, 12:06 PM
At the end of his career, he will be a top 15 player of all time

69centers
05-27-2011, 12:13 PM
PER is 20 statistics in one. You can't degrade it like that, you know that MHC.

Wade's career PER is 25.7.
NONE of those players ever had ONE SEASON over 25. That tells you how much better he is.

PER does not measure a player's greatness. None of the stats are even comparable correctly as you are talking about a guy who has only played 7 seasons, when the rest have played 12-16 seasons. Wade has already been injury plagued early on, so I doubt he even makes it to 12 years to even have a remote chance at comparing him rightly to the all time greats.


SG:
1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Havlicek
5. Wade

He makes the top 30 all-time and the top 5 SGs with plenty of time to pass #4 and #3.

Wade - 7 seasons; Havlicek - 16
Wade - 1 title; Havlicek - 8
Wade - 7 time all star; Havlicek - 13
Wade - 0 all defensive 1st team; Havlicek - 5
Wade - 2 time all NBA 1st team; Havlicek - 4
Wade - 3 time all NBA 2nd team; Havlicek - 7
Wade - 1 NBA Finals MVP; Havlicek - 1

With the exception of NBA Finals MVP, and maybe all NBA 1st team, there isn't a chance in hell Wade will ever pass Havlicek in any other category above.


There is no way guys like Iverson, Gervin, Ray Allen or Reggie Miller are better than Wade.

Better go watch some Iceman clips as you are sadly mistaken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5s6bSfOBpI

kntresistheheat
05-27-2011, 12:44 PM
When it's all said and done, he will be a top 15 player and a top 10 SG!

king4day
05-27-2011, 12:53 PM
Nothing changes with Wade that we're putting on Lebron.
The first ring was mostly his doing. This year, he's taken the back seat to Lebron. It will help his legacy, but it's Lebron's Heat now and despite how great he is, Wade will be seen as more of a role player to lebron than the face of the franchise that led them to 2 or more rings.

Chronz
05-27-2011, 02:26 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=wadedw01&y1=2011&p2=millere01&y2=2005&p3=gervige01&y3=1986&p4=iversal01&y4=2010&p5=allenra02&y5=2011

Wade has a significantly better career PER than Miller/Allen/Gervin/Iverson and he's MILES better as a defender than Miller (atrocious), Gervin (embarassing), Iverson (a joke), and Allen (the best of what's left).


PER is 20 statistics in one. You can't degrade it like that, you know that MHC.

Wade's career PER is 25.7.
NONE of those players ever had ONE SEASON over 25. That tells you how much better he is.

I agree with this

Wade already cemented his greatness when he actually led his team to a title

Tony_Starks
05-27-2011, 02:29 PM
Wade and Lebron are just getting their "legacy" started IF they win a chip this year. But all that is tallied up at the end of the career. But 2 rings for Wade a 1 for Lebron doesn't instantly shoot them up into a top ten list with guys that are multiple champs.....

gatkins11
05-27-2011, 02:45 PM
I'm not sure where it would put him all time. It would obviously be huge for him and his career.

KnicksorBust
05-27-2011, 05:03 PM
PER does not measure a player's greatness. None of the stats are even comparable correctly as you are talking about a guy who has only played 7 seasons, when the rest have played 12-16 seasons. Wade has already been injury plagued early on, so I doubt he even makes it to 12 years to even have a remote chance at comparing him rightly to the all time greats.


What does PER measure?


Wade - 7 seasons; Havlicek - 16
Wade - 1 title; Havlicek - 8
Wade - 7 time all star; Havlicek - 13
Wade - 0 all defensive 1st team; Havlicek - 5
Wade - 2 time all NBA 1st team; Havlicek - 4
Wade - 3 time all NBA 2nd team; Havlicek - 7
Wade - 1 NBA Finals MVP; Havlicek - 1

With the exception of NBA Finals MVP, and maybe all NBA 1st team, there isn't a chance in hell Wade will ever pass Havlicek in any other category above.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=wadedw01&y1=2011&p2=havlijo01&y2=1978

Wade is superior to Havlicek in basically every advanced metric. PER, TS%, eFG%, ORB%, DRB%, TRB%, AST%, STL%, BLK%. I'm ignoring all this and giving Havlicek the edge because of his longevity, accomplishments, and titles but at some point you have to give the better player his due. I'd rather an A+ player for 10 years than an A- player for 15.



Better go watch some Iceman clips as you are sadly mistaken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5s6bSfOBpI

Don't ruin this discussion by posting youtube clips. That's an insulting way to compare players.

heyman321
05-27-2011, 05:14 PM
Look at Jordan/Kobe without Pippen/Shaq :D

Look at the Lakers without Adam Morrison and the Celtics without Brian Scalabrine, they both got embarassed this year.

Chronz
05-27-2011, 05:16 PM
Might have to disagree here. Numbers are pretty close (but I think a bit more solid for West) through the same point in their careers, but West had been to his 5th Finals at that same point, and went to four more.
If we only stay to that point, I still lean West although the one ring > five finals appearances might be a tough thing to deal with, but nine appearances, 1 ring, in the end, might keep West there for me when it's all said and done.
Might just be my Jerry West bias, but dude was a beast.

Its funny how remarkably similar they are for 2 players born so far apart. West would become the better shooter while Wade can actually dribble with his left but for their era's they have alot of similarities. Combo guards with incredible length given their size that made them 2 of the most prolific shot blockers at their height, and master pick pockets with the basketball.


I like the idea of comparing them through similar stages in their careers and discussing the possibilities afterwards.


They both joined the NBA at a similar age, both played second fiddle to a dynamic forward, both began asserting themselves their 2nd season in the league, both were known for getting banged up and struggling/playing through injuries. The major difference is that Wade initially started as a PG and became a full time 2, whereas West would eventually become a PG as the league got bigger.

As for their careers, well making 9 Finals is a great accomplishment but in an era where winning a single series can get you into the Finals does it really say all that much, certainly not the same as getting through 3 teams just to make the Finals, besides this kind of narrative tells us more about the quality of his teams vs his competition than it tells us anything about Wade vs West. I think its more important to assess how they got there and what they got out of their talent.

As for their stats, well through age 29 both had gone through 8 seasons, Wade played in 547 Games, West 551. Per 36 Minutes, Wade averaged 24PTS-5REB-6AST, West averaged 25PTS-6REB-5AST. I dont have the precise era translations but basically West's rebounding would drop below 5 but his assist average would probably get a 10% boost in the modern era. PER favors Wade, WS favor West, though I prefer to favor PER's estimations here, in terms of regular season performance the starting points indicate strong equality IMO.



Thats just West through age 29, he wasnt even done playing his best basketball whereas Im pretty sure we've seen the best of Wade. Your right that I might be going overboard by crowning him ahead of West so soon. One thing to consider if he somehow manages to stay in his prime for another stretch of his career and does get in that convo, then it would mean Kobe isnt too far behind.

autechre
05-27-2011, 05:25 PM
Let's go back to this thread in 7 years or so. For now, the word legacy should be used only when speaking of players that have 15+ years in the league and have won at the very least 2 championships. You know, like the Jordans/Magic Johnsons/ Birds/Shaqs/Kobes of the world. Come one people!!

SportsFanatic10
05-27-2011, 05:26 PM
i see wade finishing anywhere from top 15-30 if he can stay healthy and continue his current level of play a few more years. i think he'll end with about 3 or 4 rings. and he plays so big for a smaller guy. if he finishes the playoffs this season at his current average of over 7 boards and 1 block a game he'll be the first player under 6'5 to ever do that in a playoffs. hes always been a crazy shotblocker too for his size which hasn't been mentioned in here yet i don't think when talking about his averages for pts ast and rebs.

naps
05-27-2011, 05:37 PM
WOW top 50? WTF are you talking about? Show me 49 other players who have better resume than Wade has after two rings.

He never gets the credit he deserves and his impact on the game has always been underrated.

Top 25 for sure with two rings. How on earth LeBron gets near top 10 with one ring and Wade isn't even top 25 with two rings? I would say he's certainly a top 20 if he wins the finals MVP OR may be even top 15.

naps
05-27-2011, 07:00 PM
Obviously Wade is overrated.

Some of you are saying wade will be close to top 10 players of all time with 3 titles??? Haha

Wow, clearly yall are younger than 20 years old

LMAO!! This is probably the dumbest comment I have ever heard/seen in my basketball life.

Oh well it's coming from a MAVS fan who is always overreacting on this board.

naps
05-27-2011, 07:06 PM
Everyone is obviously underrating the NBA logo!!!!!

He will always be the 3rd best SG

:facepalm::facepalm:

How do you know what Wade is going to finish his career with? WTF man, you really need to grow up and let the hate go. It's been 5 years now and if it was not enough to grief about..well guess what, another one is coming in a about two weeks.

justinnum1
05-27-2011, 07:13 PM
:facepalm::facepalm:

How do you know what Wade is going to finish his career with? WTF man, you really need to grow up and let the hate go. It's been 5 years now and if it was not enough to grief about..well guess what, another one is coming in a about two weeks.

Just a mavs fan hating on wade...he has reason(2006)

Tanakid777
05-27-2011, 09:15 PM
top 25-30 in my book. He's one of my topfive favorite active players

Tanakid777
05-27-2011, 09:26 PM
Just a mavs fan hating on wade...he has reason(2006)
This doesn't apply to all of us. That series was fishy as all hell no doubt, but I don't fault Wade. Players don't blow the whistles. He's a hoss

Il Mago50
05-27-2011, 09:35 PM
Wade will never be seen as the great player that he is because he's had a lot of injuries that have given questions about his durability and knocked him down a peg for a little while.

That being said, easily a top 30 player. Great scorer, clutch player, a title on his own, great defender and overall player.

As for Lebron, no chance he gets top 10 overall because he never won one on his own. If the rest of the league follows suit with these ******** three superstar teams and he takes out NY (Melo-Paul-Amare), Chi (Rose-Deng-Boozer-Noah-OJ Majo/good shooting guard), LA (Dwight-Bynum/Gasol-Bean), etc., then maybe I would consider him up there because he won the ring while the rest of the league was built in similar fashion to the super-team.

Until that happens, I'll always have the asterisk on this year if they win because they created a team that is unheard of and quite frankly, almost like rigging the league, no matter how much adversity they've gone through.

Tanakid777
05-27-2011, 09:44 PM
Wade will never be seen as the great player that he is because he's had a lot of injuries that have given questions about his durability and knocked him down a peg for a little while.

That being said, easily a top 30 player. Great scorer, clutch player, a title on his own, great defender and overall player.

As for Lebron, no chance he gets top 10 overall because he never won one on his own. If the rest of the league follows suit with these ******** three superstar teams and he takes out NY (Melo-Paul-Amare), Chi (Rose-Deng-Boozer-Noah-OJ Majo/good shooting guard), LA (Dwight-Bynum/Gasol-Bean), etc., then maybe I would consider him up there because he won the ring while the rest of the league was built in similar fashion to the super-team.

Until that happens, I'll always have the asterisk on this year if they win because they created a team that is unheard of and quite frankly, almost like rigging the league, no matter how much adversity they've gone through.
STOP that "never won on his own" ****. Barring severe injury, he'll be top five when he retires.

Tanakid777
05-27-2011, 09:45 PM
meaning LeBron. I could see Wade getting 10-15

Il Mago50
05-27-2011, 09:52 PM
STOP that "never won on his own" ****. Barring severe injury, he'll be top five when he retires.

Probably will be but for me at least, that image of him basically giving up the battle against the rest of the league when he legitimately could've beaten Boston on Cleveland this year will always stick for me. There are just certain things you never quite forget about someone, even ages after they happen.

Michael Richards was one of the funnier characters on sitcom television but his racial rant will never be whipped from people's memory.

Sammy Sosa was one of the best home run hitters back in the day but the corked bat (ignoring the steriods) will always be vivid in people's minds.

Mike Tyson was one of the greatest boxers of all time, yet no one will forget when he bit a piece of Holyfield's ear off and that will haunt the image of his post jail career forever.

And Lebron can win all he wants on the super-team playing with the 2/3rd best player and top 5 PF in the league but the image of him giving up the fight that great superstars who are forever enshrined in NBA history never gave up will always stick in mine.

C-Style
05-27-2011, 10:30 PM
Once is all said and done, Wade will be a top 5 shooting guard, and hit the top 20 mark....

69centers
05-28-2011, 12:04 AM
What does PER measure?

That you are as geeky as John Hollinger for even considering, using, and following this stat. When PER and Win Shares come up during a streetball game, show up during a broadcaster's on air commentary, or wind up on the back of a basketball card, then come talk to me about those absolute crap stats.


Wade is superior to Havlicek in basically every advanced metric. PER, TS%, eFG%, ORB%, DRB%, TRB%, AST%, STL%, BLK%. I'm ignoring all this and giving Havlicek the edge because of his longevity, accomplishments, and titles but at some point you have to give the better player his due. I'd rather an A+ player for 10 years than an A- player for 15.

More stats that are always discussed daily on Sportscenter. :facepalm: Do you watch games or do you check stat grids?

Let's put things in better perspective: There are people who like and watch Star Trek and people who dress up like Spock and go to Star Trek conventions. Well, people who care about those stats you just named are the same as the ones who put on the Spock ears.


Don't ruin this discussion by posting youtube clips. That's an insulting way to compare players.

Wasn't using it as a comparison. Note how I did not also include a Wade highlight film. I was merely trying to point out to someone that they should watch a little Gervin because they've probably never seen him play if they have the nerve to say something like "no way" is Gervin better than Wade. Don't say stuff I am not doing, please.

BallinGid3
05-28-2011, 12:33 AM
Right now hes the 3rd best Shooting Guard OF ALL TIME. So he can only go up from there .

12evolution 9
05-28-2011, 12:36 AM
Wade Will Be Top 3 Shooting Guards OF All Time....he might be 2nd best... by the time it is for him to retire.

LTBaByyy
05-28-2011, 12:40 AM
Right now hes the 3rd best Shooting Guard OF ALL TIME. So he can only go up from there .

Right now he is the 3rd best SG of all time????

Hahahaha you are def under 20 years old

Go research Jerry West and John Havlicek

LTBaByyy
05-28-2011, 12:42 AM
Wade Will Be Top 3 Shooting Guards OF All Time....he might be 2nd best... by the time it is for him to retire.

2nd?? Over Kobe!!!!

OMG Heat fans :facepalm:

KnicksorBust
05-28-2011, 02:14 PM
That you are as geeky as John Hollinger for even considering, using, and following this stat. When PER and Win Shares come up during a streetball game, show up during a broadcaster's on air commentary, or wind up on the back of a basketball card, then come talk to me about those absolute crap stats.



More stats that are always discussed daily on Sportscenter. :facepalm: Do you watch games or do you check stat grids?

Let's put things in better perspective: There are people who like and watch Star Trek and people who dress up like Spock and go to Star Trek conventions. Well, people who care about those stats you just named are the same as the ones who put on the Spock ears.



Wasn't using it as a comparison. Note how I did not also include a Wade highlight film. I was merely trying to point out to someone that they should watch a little Gervin because they've probably never seen him play if they have the nerve to say something like "no way" is Gervin better than Wade. Don't say stuff I am not doing, please.

Do you watch games or do you check stat grids?

I do both. How about you? :) If you think advanced statistics are useless than really there is no point in continuing. Sportscenter and basketball card stats don't tell the whole story. If you are interested in seeing examples what I mean then feel free to send me a message. If not, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

LOOTERX9
05-28-2011, 02:25 PM
This is why LBJ should have never went to play with WADE. What if wade wins finals MVP and LBJ has a mediocre series? Then lbj would be looked at differently. Wade would have 2 titles and 2 finals mvp's. LBJ is a ****** for joining wade's team. totally stupid

AllBall
05-28-2011, 03:42 PM
Had Wade not gotten injured in 05 he would have had two already. Top 25.

Chronz
05-28-2011, 03:53 PM
LOL at the idea of basing which stats are relevant by basketball cards, SportsCenter, and what your every day baller at the street knows. Yea forget about all those GM's investing millions into the field and their findings.

69centers
05-28-2011, 06:44 PM
Do you watch games or do you check stat grids?

I do both. How about you? :) If you think advanced statistics are useless than really there is no point in continuing. Sportscenter and basketball card stats don't tell the whole story. If you are interested in seeing examples what I mean then feel free to send me a message. If not, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

While I don't follow advanced statistics, I don't think all of them are useless, however even you can attest that the casual fan and most national media outlets care less about them and never speak of them. It's the ones made up in recent years by geeks like John Hollinger (PER) and Bill James (Win Shares) that I find to be useless and utter garbage.


LOL at the idea of basing which stats are relevant by basketball cards, SportsCenter, and what your every day baller at the street knows. Yea forget about all those GM's investing millions into the field and their findings.

I was proving a point that they are only relevant to stat trackers and not the mass media, fan, or player. As far as GM's caring about them? You're kidding right? Oh, wait, didn't I hear Danny Ainge say he was considering another player for Perkins on a team before the OKC deal, but recanted last minute because he didn't like their TS% and Win Shares. :facepalm: .... :pity: .... :laugh2:

SwaggaIke
05-28-2011, 06:54 PM
Wade is already an all time great.

Wade has been a better all around player than Bryant since 08-09.

THE MTL
05-28-2011, 07:00 PM
Eh, Wade's legacy will be cemented with multiple championships. Its also really hard considering he is playing alongside of a larger-than-the-sport superstar Lebron James (kinda like the Jordan effect for Pippen)

12evolution 9
05-28-2011, 07:02 PM
2nd?? Over Kobe!!!!

OMG Heat fans :facepalm:


Yea ... BY the time he retires...


i know you have a sandy vagina from when My HEAT beat your sorry Mavericks... but you need to get over that and acknowledge WAde as top of the best..especially the SG position

Marc Jackson and Jeff Van Gundy also made a statement of it...

By the time Wade retires he might have more rings than kobe... in matter of fact even if he has the same number of rings.... Wade has been an all out better defender, more of an explosive defender... Kobe didnt start defending till he changed his number to 24.... Wade is the best shot blocking guard the league has seen...

smith&wesson
05-28-2011, 07:06 PM
we should really wait and see how many rings they will win by the time they retire and then rate them.

championships
05-28-2011, 07:40 PM
There is no way guys like Iverson, Gervin, Ray Allen or Reggie Miller are better than Wade.

Gervin was the Man.

Honors: 12-time All-Star (9 in NBA, 3 in ABA), Hall of Fame


The player: The Iceman could score on anyone from anywhere. The Iceman could score blindfolded. The Iceman could score getting out of bed. You get the point.

At 6-foot-8, Gervin revolutionized the position, won four scoring titles (one in the ABA, three in the NBA) and scored an NBA-record 33 points in one quarter. His artistry with the ball made him one of the most entertaining players ever. His line-drive jumper was a smooth sight, and his creativity around the basket was second to none.

He scored with flair from the outside and in the midrange and showed a delicate touch inside; his finger roll is one of the great signature shots in NBA history.

Simply put, he was one of the truly unique players in the history of the game.

championships
05-28-2011, 07:44 PM
Yea ... BY the time he retires...


i know you have a sandy vagina from when My HEAT beat your sorry Mavericks... but you need to get over that and acknowledge WAde as top of the best..especially the SG position

Marc Jackson and Jeff Van Gundy also made a statement of it...

By the time Wade retires he might have more rings than kobe... in matter of fact even if he has the same number of rings.... Wade has been an all out better defender, more of an explosive defender... Kobe didnt start defending till he changed his number to 24.... Wade is the best shot blocking guard the league has seen...

I'm not so sure you know who has played the SG position in the history of this game.

KnicksR4Real
05-28-2011, 08:01 PM
i dont really consider him as a top player for some reason. He is. but i dont know why. its weird.

Master Mind
05-28-2011, 08:13 PM
Best Shooting Guards of all time

MJ (GO.A.T.)
Kobe
Wade

will be etched in history

Chronz
05-28-2011, 10:48 PM
I was proving a point that they are only relevant to stat trackers and not the mass media, fan, or player.
Unfortunately you don't speak on their behalf because I know of media members, fans, players who consider them. But even if you had a point, I don't see how this helps your argument against stats. Why would I care what people who don't get paid to analyze stats think about stats? That would be like favoring the opinion of my doctor over my mechanic when it comes to my car.



As far as GM's caring about them? You're kidding right? Oh, wait, didn't I hear Danny Ainge say he was considering another player for Perkins on a team before the OKC deal, but recanted last minute because he didn't like their TS% and Win Shares. :facepalm: .... :pity: .... :laugh2:

Lol that's your argument? Let me know when you have something of substance because I won't waste the precious bat life on my phone. Do some research and ill await your response.

SportsAndrew25
05-28-2011, 11:06 PM
Wade is already a great player.

LTBaByyy
05-28-2011, 11:22 PM
I'm not so sure you know who has played the SG position in the history of this game.

Thank you!!! These Heat Fans saying Wade will be a top 10/15 player ever and the 2nd best SG to ever play this game :facepalm:

Besides that one finals I havent seen Wade dominate the NBA like MJ, Kobe, West, and Havlicek!!!

Come on now, idk why but I really feel he has never dominated the NBA besides that one finals

And top 10/15 PLAYER of all time????? Heat fans are trippin

Top 25 at best for me

Jacks3
05-29-2011, 12:56 AM
Top 40 at best. He really has been mediocre this post-season. I mean, the guy has been flat-out terrible in 2/3 series he's played.

LTBaByyy
05-29-2011, 01:17 AM
I can name 25 players that will always have a better career than him

We should ask this to non Heat fans cause saying top 10/15 player and 2nd best SG ever is crazy

Chronz
05-29-2011, 01:51 AM
Wade is already a great player.

Way to go out on a limb there bud

cutiepie80
05-29-2011, 01:59 AM
Wow. After the ship settled and the heat were awful after they won......um, how could he be considered that great. Don't get me wrong, but didn't they have the worst record in the NBA 3 years after they won it? Yeah, that should show that he is maybe top 50. Winning another ring doesn't help him at all when he is second fiddle to te best player in the NBA and one of the best power forwards in the game.

faridk89
05-29-2011, 02:11 AM
You don't know what his legacy be because he has alot to go. He's not a player at the last stage of their career you know..this thread could be pointless if he wins his 3rd ring.

This thread could also be pointless if he doesn't win a 2nd ring :p

hugepatsfan
05-29-2011, 02:33 AM
Honestly, it really doesn't change anything. I won't look at Wade or Lebron any differently if they sweep or get swept. Judging on such a small sample size is stupid IMO. Maybe it affects my view of Lebron somewhat just because it's the line between having a ring and not having one. But it isn't some magical key to becoming an instant top 10 player.

cutiepie80
05-29-2011, 02:39 AM
Considering Wade a top 50 player if iffy, anything inside that is a joke.

nightBULL
05-29-2011, 12:30 PM
Wade's going to look like a mastermind when all is said and done. First he brought in Shaq, then he got Bosh and Bron. Riley wouldn't have got any of them if Wade wasn't on the team.

HiphopRelated
05-29-2011, 01:00 PM
Thank you!!! These Heat Fans saying Wade will be a top 10/15 player ever and the 2nd best SG to ever play this game :facepalm:

Besides that one finals I havent seen Wade dominate the NBA like MJ, Kobe, West, and Havlicek!!!

Come on now, idk why but I really feel he has never dominated the NBA besides that one finals

And top 10/15 PLAYER of all time????? Heat fans are trippin

Top 25 at best for me


Did you see West and Havlicek?

If a player today went to as many Finals as West and came out with one ring do you know how brutally they would be berated?

ATX
05-29-2011, 01:55 PM
To those trying to discredit Wade: Let's take a look at career averages compared to Kobe for example. Disclaimer: I am not saying Wade is better than Kobe. Kobe has 5 rings. Wade certainly has a great chance to end up with a few, maybe even 4 or 5 when it's all said and done.

Kobe:
45.5 FG%
5.3 REB
4.7 AST
1.5 STL
0.5 BLK
25.3 PTS

Wade:
*48.5 FG%
5.1 REB
*6.4 AST
*1.8 STL
*1.0 BLK
*25.4 PTS


So if we all can agree that Kobe is a top 3 SG of all time, then I ask why can't DWade be as well? When it's all said and done, Saying 1.MJ, 2.Kobe, 3.Wade, isn't far fetched in the slightest. In fact, it's realistic.

naps
05-29-2011, 02:57 PM
Top 40 at best. He really has been mediocre this post-season. I mean, the guy has been flat-out terrible in 2/3 series he's played.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Really? 24/4/7 a flat out terrible performance in the playoffs (3 series avg)? And he absolutely murdered the Celtics.

naps
05-29-2011, 03:02 PM
If Wade has 4/5 rings (which I believe he'll), he'll be a automatic choice for top 10 all time. Just wait and see. If he wins the finals MVP this season this will alone make him a top 15/20.

The Prodigy
05-29-2011, 03:13 PM
Hes already a top 50 player in NBA history easily. Now if he gets a couple more championships and finals MVP how is he not in the top 25 players of all time list.
What if he finishes with 5 rings and 2 or 3 finals MVP
I think that should cement him into the top 15 players of all time, with the type of stats he has

The Prodigy
05-29-2011, 03:16 PM
Not to mention Wade already holds the title for one of the greatest finals performances in history, quite possibly the best ever

justinnum1
05-29-2011, 03:44 PM
D wade will go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game.

69centers
05-30-2011, 01:39 PM
Unfortunately you don't speak on their behalf because I know of media members, fans, players who consider them. But even if you had a point, I don't see how this helps your argument against stats. Why would I care what people who don't get paid to analyze stats think about stats? That would be like favoring the opinion of my doctor over my mechanic when it comes to my car.

Lol that's your argument? Let me know when you have something of substance because I won't waste the precious bat life on my phone. Do some research and ill await your response.

TV and radio media, the majority of normal fans, and newspaper articles NEVER mention advanced statistics. These outlets by far outnumber the few members of media and the fans that you know.

Also, send me a link to an interview with one GM who has ever talked about advanced statistics when talking about players they are interested in.

While you are at it, send me a link to an NBA player talking about how he has to get back to practice and work on his PER and Win Shares.


D wade will go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game.

You forgot to add "in a Miami uniform".

Chronz
05-30-2011, 04:00 PM
TV and radio media, the majority of normal fans, and newspaper articles NEVER mention advanced statistics. These outlets by far outnumber the few members of media and the fans that you know.
Sadly for you, Im not your every day fan.
You just contradicted yourself, you admit that I know of a few yet you say they NEVER mention them. I never denied that amongst your casual every day fan your not going to get much insight into APBR, but again how exactly does this help your argument or counter mine? My argument is that when it comes to STATS, the people that MATTER are the ones whos sole job is to STUDY THE NUMBERS. GM's like Daryl Morey run teams based on several metrics, none of them the rudimentary tallies that your every day fan would understand.


Also, send me a link to an interview with one GM who has ever talked about advanced statistics when talking about players they are interested in.

LMFAO R U CEREAL? OK off the top of my head, Ty Lawson when Dean Oliver raved about his advanced #'s leading up to the draft and thereafter when he was working for Denver. Shane Battier when Morey was advising the Rockets before taking over as a full time GM. It factors into how Spoelstra projected the Big 3's production and how he tweaked the offensive game plan.

Get your google search ready cuz I got some names I want you to look into. MOREY. PAT RILEY. THIBIDEO, SPOELSTRA, WINSTON, CUBAN, DEAN OLIVER, AINGE, Pritchard/Cho. Research the game plz, the utilization of APBR has become wide spread throughout many organizations, it factors into Roster Transactions/Acquisitions, Offensive/Defensive Game Plans, and draft status.


While you are at it, send me a link to an NBA player talking about how he has to get back to practice and work on his PER and Win Shares.

I dont have to until you prove why your opinion on stats matters more than those who are actually being paid to assess them. Tell me why I would care about your every day fan above your hardcore fan? Why do I care about what your typical analyst thinks about stats when they would get owned by someone with knowledge of advanced stats.

Ethix11
05-30-2011, 04:45 PM
If he retired today he would be a future HOFer. Many people dont see that D Wade doesn't just put up numbers for the sake of his team. He defends as good as LeBron if not better but he doesnt get his due because he never puts out that kind of effort unless the game is on the line which he has done many occasions. He simply took over against the Mavs in 06 when he turned it on. He is the best closer but with LeBron on the team, the game will stay close enough for Wade to close. Top 10.

LTBaByyy
05-30-2011, 04:51 PM
All the Heat fans saying top 10 player to ever play the game :facepalm:

They must be under 15 years old

DoJoTheSlasher
05-30-2011, 05:07 PM
Wade will never be a better player than Dirk all time....

Top 50.

unleashthebeast
05-30-2011, 05:09 PM
Wade will never be a better player than Dirk all time....

Top 50.

:facepalm: comeon man, dont let your homerism and blatant hatred towards the HEAT blind your view...... dirk hasnt even won a title, and wade won a title over dirk. you can not say that dirk will go down as a better player than wade, geeze

Cal827
05-30-2011, 05:16 PM
Top 30 I think, but of course there are variables. Out of the big 3, he is the most reckless one, and he's more injury prone than the other two I believe. He would likely be the first one of them to break down. Hopefully, the injury days are behind him.

justinnum1
05-30-2011, 05:29 PM
Wade will never be a better player than Dirk all time....

Top 50.

:facepalm:

Underrated Wade
05-30-2011, 05:38 PM
All i know is he is underrated. IMO he is the second best player in the league rite now
1.lebron
2.wade
3.dirk
4.howard
5.kobe
Sorry kobe :(

Underrated Wade
05-30-2011, 05:41 PM
He also doesnt get credit for his defense. He was defending rose more than lebron in this series. Lebron defended him during the game winners and stuff so obviously it drained lotd of energy from wade which resulted in lack of offense. The shoulder was also a problem. I'd also like to say stop hating on bosh cuz hes good and shut all of his critics up

J_M_B
05-30-2011, 05:50 PM
Definitely top 30.

Cano4prez
05-30-2011, 06:06 PM
If he wins his second Finals MVP as well top 25

Jahari Kavi
05-30-2011, 06:10 PM
Top 50.

LOL, if you already didn't think Wade is in the top 50 then I don't know what to say....currently he'd be in my top 20 cause he's that damn great.....I always thought he could be a top 10-15 player....I think he will get that if he keeps winning............MJ and Kobe are the only two SG who are better than him from a "career legacy" standpoint......

Jahari Kavi
05-30-2011, 06:11 PM
D wade will go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game.

I agree....it's amazing how some of you'll are ranking him so low......

naps
05-30-2011, 06:37 PM
Wade will never be a better player than Dirk all time....

Top 50.

LMAO! Most ******** post ever?

naps
05-30-2011, 06:42 PM
LOL, if you already didn't think Wade is in the top 50 then I don't know what to say....currently he'd be in my top 20 cause he's that damn great.....I always thought he could be a top 10-15 player....I think he will get that if he keeps winning............MJ and Kobe are the only two SG who are better than him from a "career legacy" standpoint......



I agree....it's amazing how some of you'll are ranking him so low......

THANK YOU. D Wade has always been underrated and he's even more underrated now because he plays with the best on the planet. I have no doubt in my mind that he will finish as a top 15 all time and may be a top 10 IF he stays healthy. With 4/5 rings and another MVP trophy he's certainly a top 10.

justinnum1
05-30-2011, 06:44 PM
LMAO! Most ******** post ever?

He must still be mad about 06

Cano4prez
05-30-2011, 07:13 PM
probably about the same drexler's...

the overrating of wade has gotta stop, guy will never win a chip as the guy on his team, EVER.

http://img.discountpostersale.com/posters/PFSAAHE09701/1/Dwyane-Wade-with-MVP-and-2006-Finals-Trophies-37.jpg
:confused:

justinnum1
05-30-2011, 07:14 PM
probably about the same drexler's...

the overrating of wade has gotta stop, guy will never win a chip as the guy on his team, EVER.

Quit trolling.

Cal827
05-30-2011, 07:15 PM
probably about the same drexler's...

the overrating of wade has gotta stop, guy will never win a chip as the guy on his team, EVER.

lol I'm by no means a Heat fan, but he basically took down the Mavericks by himself in 2006. The guy is the real deal man lol

ldawg
05-30-2011, 07:45 PM
Wade is set in stone in Miami he brought them a ring that means alot. He also brought in Lebron and bosh to try and help him win more. He took a back seat for Lebron the younger + the league most gifted player but when needed he unleashes the beast. But This Heat team belongs to Wade he is the soul and Heart of this team. When you think Miami the first person that comes to mind is Wade. He is a Legend of Miami the true MVP of that team. It was a fight for him and the coach to get Lebron and the ego on board but i think they did it. The Coach was about to end up like Mike Brown.

Cal827
05-30-2011, 07:46 PM
Lol, how in the hell is Drexler NOT the real deal.

Got to the finals twice by himself, 2nd fiddle championship.

Plz, go watch some clips kid, Wade = Drexler.... if hes lucky.

lol I never said that Drexler wasn't the real deal.. It's just that we really haven't seen someone take over a finals series from Wade since Jordan (By no means comparing the two overall, just the playoff preformances). He averaged 35 points per game, 8 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals and a block. He's averaged 25-5-6 for his career so far too. A little bit better (point wise) over Drexler's 20-6-6.

Reference: http://www.nba.com/heat/stats/2005/nba_finals_stats.html

justinnum1
05-30-2011, 07:47 PM
lmfaoz, how the hell am i trolling you freakin moron?

i can say WHATEVER I WANT, TO WHOEVER I WANT, WHENEVER I WANT, HOWEVER I WANT, FOR AS LONG AS I WANT, and you litereally can do crap about it lil kid.

I'm sorry all these 11 y/o Heat fans spring up out of nowhere b/c there's nothing else to do in Miami other than harass hot chicks, speak Spanish, and be gay.

That's not my fault, and I'm sorry your best player before was Rony freakin Seikaly.

Again, if there's problems at home with your mommy, not my fault.


BTW - Wade was NOT the best player in 06. That was Shaq. Ask Wade. Ask Riley, hell I could care less, but just b/c he's the freakin FMVP doesn't mean jack shiyet.

Pierce was the FMVP, did that freakin make him better than damn KG?????


Uh, no.


Me - 10 pts.
Loser annoying Heat fans that won't go away like cockroaches - NEG. 50 PTS.


Anymore interesting comments?

How about - Harold Minor is the next Mj.

Oooo, how about - the Heat will beat the Knicks in 99!!!! :facepalm:


Lols, Heat fans are the biggest trolls I have ever witnessed EVER. They litereally are cockroaches, as one of your famous residents said.... (can't guess? SCARFACE :cool: )

So you continue to troll after you say your not trolling? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

justinnum1
05-30-2011, 07:48 PM
btw, i choose to stay away from this thread b/c it's full of cockroaches, and i'm not gonna get baited into some stupid arguement by 12 y/o heat fans who know nothing about basketball, and see pretty pictures on the screen and say, o wow mami, dat vas cooooowoool.

lols, i'll show some restraint, peac cal.

You mean you will leave becuase your arguments are not only ******** but cleary come from your hatred of the miami heat. Shaq a better player than wade in the 06 finals? Either your a hater, a troll, or both.

KnicksorBust
05-30-2011, 08:12 PM
Sadly for you, Im not your every day fan.
You just contradicted yourself, you admit that I know of a few yet you say they NEVER mention them. I never denied that amongst your casual every day fan your not going to get much insight into APBR, but again how exactly does this help your argument or counter mine? My argument is that when it comes to STATS, the people that MATTER are the ones whos sole job is to STUDY THE NUMBERS. GM's like Daryl Morey run teams based on several metrics, none of them the rudimentary tallies that your every day fan would understand.


LMFAO R U CEREAL? OK off the top of my head, Ty Lawson when Dean Oliver raved about his advanced #'s leading up to the draft and thereafter when he was working for Denver. Shane Battier when Morey was advising the Rockets before taking over as a full time GM. It factors into how Spoelstra projected the Big 3's production and how he tweaked the offensive game plan.

Get your google search ready cuz I got some names I want you to look into. MOREY. PAT RILEY. THIBIDEO, SPOELSTRA, WINSTON, CUBAN, DEAN OLIVER, AINGE, Pritchard/Cho. Research the game plz, the utilization of APBR has become wide spread throughout many organizations, it factors into Roster Transactions/Acquisitions, Offensive/Defensive Game Plans, and draft status.


I dont have to until you prove why your opinion on stats matters more than those who are actually being paid to assess them. Tell me why I would care about your every day fan above your hardcore fan? Why do I care about what your typical analyst thinks about stats when they would get owned by someone with knowledge of advanced stats.

I hope he responds.

Venomous88
05-30-2011, 08:13 PM
After thinking about it, I would say he might crack top 100

DabullsDabearsD
05-30-2011, 08:25 PM
His legacy will never be bigger than it was with just his 1 ring. It doesnt matter how many more he gets because LBJ is going to get the credit for any titles Miami wins from here till he leaves Miami or retires.

He's Robin, not Batman.

Just like Pippen never gets near enough credit for the Bulls 6 titles.

He made his bed, he gets to lay in it.

DoJoTheSlasher
05-30-2011, 08:36 PM
Solidify his greatness with a ring, multiple all stars and NBA teams and a great career statline. The other chips he gets will be largely because the best basketball player in the world (and all time according to some) will be by his side. Compare it to Dirk. MVP, multiple all stars and all NBA teams, possible top 5 in all time scoring and possibly a championship this year. Wade is not better than Dirk all time.

DabullsDabearsD
05-30-2011, 09:00 PM
Not to mention Wade already holds the title for one of the greatest finals performances in history, quite possibly the best ever


:facepalm:

Just about all non-Heat fans don't remember that Finals as some great series from Wade, but more of a horrible ref'd series that pretty much gave Miami the title.

I would agree that he had one of the best FT shooting finals in history.

avrpatsfan
05-30-2011, 09:05 PM
Kobe and Wade are very comparable statistically actually. Wade is a stellar player, Kobe esque. Obviously he's not as good as Kobe but they can be said in the same breath.

unleashthebeast
05-30-2011, 09:17 PM
His legacy will never be bigger than it was with just his 1 ring. It doesnt matter how many more he gets because LBJ is going to get the credit for any titles Miami wins from here till he leaves Miami or retires.

He's Robin, not Batman.

Just like Pippen never gets near enough credit for the Bulls 6 titles.

He made his bed, he gets to lay in it.

lebron was the #1 option last series, not all year. stop letting such recent events sway your whole opinion. we have 2 batmans, and a robin. 2 alphadogs. i wouldnt be at all surprised to see wade win the finals mvp this year, then what will all the threads say? "uh oh, lebron will never be jordan, he is always going to be wades robin" yada yada, we have 2 #1 options, get over it

DabullsDabearsD
05-30-2011, 09:19 PM
Also Dirk is better than Wade.

I wanted Dirk over ever Free Agent this past off season. Rose with Dirk at PF instead of Boozer n DaBulls would have been real nasty. Dirk doesn't ever win a title he'll be kicking himself for not teaming up with Rose.

ryang
05-30-2011, 09:22 PM
Solidify his greatness with a ring, multiple all stars and NBA teams and a great career statline. The other chips he gets will be largely because the best basketball player in the world (and all time according to some) will be by his side. Compare it to Dirk. MVP, multiple all stars and all NBA teams, possible top 5 in all time scoring and possibly a championship this year. Wade is not better than Dirk all time.


You got to be kidding me right?? :crazy:

DabullsDabearsD
05-30-2011, 09:27 PM
lebron was the #1 option last series, not all year. stop letting such recent events sway your whole opinion. we have 2 batmans, and a robin. 2 alphadogs. i wouldnt be at all surprised to see wade win the finals mvp this year, then what will all the threads say? "uh oh, lebron will never be jordan, he is always going to be wades robin" yada yada, we have 2 #1 options, get over it


LBJ is considered the top player in the game, he's going to get the majority of the credit no matter what Wade does. Wade is a great player but no matter what happens he n LBJ tarnished there legacy's for ever by joining up.

By your logic I guess the Bulls had two Batmans also because I don't see Wade being better than Pippen.

Bosh does not = a Robin.

Plus how many more miles will Wade be able to put on his breaking down body? He isn't getting any better from here.

Good Luck tomorrow.

BigCityofDreams
05-30-2011, 09:27 PM
Top 30 I think, but of course there are variables. Out of the big 3, he is the most reckless one, and he's more injury prone than the other two I believe. He would likely be the first one of them to break down. Hopefully, the injury days are behind him.

He's injured right now.

In a couple of seasons I can see him starting to decline even if it's a slight one.

ryang
05-30-2011, 09:30 PM
If you mean Dirk has played better this post season then wade I agree... and please dont throw stats out WADE has not been in the league for 14 years like your boy dirk...

Wade>Dirk he out played him in the finals and neither one has gotten there teams far since... Wade will have a better career then dirk when all is said and done but i guess thats because LeBron came over right??:phew:

ryang
05-30-2011, 09:32 PM
We know WADE and LEBRON only have a few short years left... Give me a break

heattiltheend94
05-30-2011, 09:44 PM
Look at Wade without Shaq and Lebron/Bosh

look at 06 buddy. Shaq didnt do ****, and Wade beat ur Mavs single handedly. 33.8, That was the highest PER for anyone in ANY NBA finals. Now obviously he isn't comparable to Jordan and Kobe in their primes, but I believe he is top 3 alltime SG

69centers
05-30-2011, 10:55 PM
Sadly for you, Im not your every day fan.
You just contradicted yourself, you admit that I know of a few yet you say they NEVER mention them. I never denied that amongst your casual every day fan your not going to get much insight into APBR, but again how exactly does this help your argument or counter mine? My argument is that when it comes to STATS, the people that MATTER are the ones whos sole job is to STUDY THE NUMBERS. GM's like Daryl Morey run teams based on several metrics, none of them the rudimentary tallies that your every day fan would understand.

LMFAO R U CEREAL? OK off the top of my head, Ty Lawson when Dean Oliver raved about his advanced #'s leading up to the draft and thereafter when he was working for Denver. Shane Battier when Morey was advising the Rockets before taking over as a full time GM. It factors into how Spoelstra projected the Big 3's production and how he tweaked the offensive game plan.

Get your google search ready cuz I got some names I want you to look into. MOREY. PAT RILEY. THIBIDEO, SPOELSTRA, WINSTON, CUBAN, DEAN OLIVER, AINGE, Pritchard/Cho. Research the game plz, the utilization of APBR has become wide spread throughout many organizations, it factors into Roster Transactions/Acquisitions, Offensive/Defensive Game Plans, and draft status.

I dont have to until you prove why your opinion on stats matters more than those who are actually being paid to assess them. Tell me why I would care about your every day fan above your hardcore fan? Why do I care about what your typical analyst thinks about stats when they would get owned by someone with knowledge of advanced stats.

I'm still waiting on those links to THEIR quotes. Not yours.

If these GM's do use it in any way shape or form, they don't discuss it with the media because it is not in general practice for anyone to speak, rave, or write about these advanced stats. Still waiting on a link, interview video, or quote where any of these guys you mention have anything to say publicly about these stats to tv or radio stations. I'm sure when they do, it's behind closed doors with all their scouts and analysts, and your just tossing out BS right now if you think any of these stats are common focal points of basketball discussion anywhere other than that or places like geek forums such as this (http://sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=8e83d314535659c4afed0f8b0951c895).

Go grab your Spock ears, Chronz, because I'm sure there's a convention this weekend somewhere.


Let's put things in better perspective: There are people who like and watch Star Trek and people who dress up like Spock and go to Star Trek conventions. Well, people who care about those stats you just named are the same as the ones who put on the Spock ears.


His legacy will never be bigger than it was with just his 1 ring. It doesnt matter how many more he gets because LBJ is going to get the credit for any titles Miami wins from here till he leaves Miami or retires.

He's Robin, not Batman.

Just like Pippen never gets near enough credit for the Bulls 6 titles.

He made his bed, he gets to lay in it.

I second this. His stock will be on the decline from here on out. Even Wade himself just mentioned in a recent interview about how he was 5 years younger and more athletic in the 2006 Finas than he is now.

Cano4prez
05-30-2011, 11:01 PM
I'm still waiting on those links to THEIR quotes. Not yours.

If these GM's do use it in any way shape or form, they don't discuss it with the media because it is not in general practice for anyone to speak, rave, or write about these advanced stats. Still waiting on a link, interview video, or quote where any of these guys you mention have anything to say publicly about these stats to tv or radio stations. I'm sure when they do, it's behind closed doors with all their scouts and analysts, and your just tossing out BS right now if you think any of these stats are common focal points of basketball discussion anywhere other than that or places like geek forums such as this (http://sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=8e83d314535659c4afed0f8b0951c895).

Go grab your Spock ears, Chronz, because I'm sure there's a convention this weekend somewhere.


How Erik Spoelstra uses advanced stats to refine Chris Boshís game



Teams use advanced stats to differing degrees. Houstonís GM Daryl Morey has long been known as one of the foremost users in advanced stats in the NBA. But this is the first time that Iíve heard of a specific example of a coach admitting that advanced stats have altered his game plan or approach.

I'm pretty sure every NBA team now has several statisticians.

69centers
05-30-2011, 11:19 PM
I'm pretty sure every NBA team now has several statisticians.

All well and good, but it's not talked about publicly.

Spoelstra's stats were based on how many times Bosh scored from the left side or the right. This has nothing to do with all the geek stats like Win Shares, PER, TS%, etc, etc.

No doubt, Chronz will be attending this:


Since 2004, Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey has helped to organize the annual MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference, a get-together of some of the brightest minds to discuss, among other things, the convergence of numbers and sports. Attended by hundreds of brainiacs, the conference was affectionately dubbed “Dorkapalooza” by ESPN.com’s Bill Simmons -- and with good reason.

As I said, it's only for the dorks and geeks. NOT the general bball public.

Link (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/4356/how-advanced-stats-changed-chris-boshs-game)

ryang
05-30-2011, 11:24 PM
what his legacy? better then most

Chronz
05-31-2011, 12:31 AM
I hope he responds.

I gave him the heads up the minute I posted

Chronz
05-31-2011, 12:56 AM
I'm still waiting on those links to THEIR quotes. Not yours.
I dont care bro, Im not rummaging through the archives to prove something any fan above the age of 15 would know to be true. Do your own grunt work I gave you a good starting point.


If these GM's do use it in any way shape or form, they don't discuss it with the media because it is not in general practice for anyone to speak, rave, or write about these advanced stats.
So long as you admit they use it I dont care what you think they do with the information. It would make sense to keep the competitive advantage by withholding certain information. What we do know is that the entire APBR movement is based on possession stats.


Still waiting on a link, interview video, or quote where any of these guys you mention have anything to say publicly about these stats to tv or radio stations. I'm sure when they do, it's behind closed doors with all their scouts and analysts, and your just tossing out BS right now if you think any of these stats are common focal points of basketball discussion anywhere other than that or places like geek forums such as this (http://sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=8e83d314535659c4afed0f8b0951c895).

Go grab your Spock ears, Chronz, because I'm sure there's a convention this weekend somewhere.
LMFAO you would get schooled by everyone there, some of them get paid analyzing stats.

Ill take my spock ears long before your prepubescent mentality, again TELL ME WHY I SHOULD VALUE YOUR OPINION ABOUT STATS ABOVE THOSE WHO ACTUALLY STUDY #'S

THE GIPPER
05-31-2011, 01:02 AM
Kobe and Wade are very comparable statistically actually. Wade is a stellar player, Kobe esque. Obviously he's not as good as Kobe but they can be said in the same breath.

Why not? And dont say "because kobe has 5 rings" cuz if wade had kobes teammates/coach for his whole career he'd have 5 rings too.

Chronz
05-31-2011, 01:03 AM
All well and good, but it's not talked about publicly.

Spoelstra's stats were based on how many times Bosh scored from the left side or the right. This has nothing to do with all the geek stats like Win Shares, PER, TS%, etc, etc.
LMFAO, what do you think TS% measures. They look at Bosh's PPP from various play sets (Theres also talk of how Miami foresaw the statistics shaping out. This is at the heart of the APBR movement, accounting for pace and efficiency is a concept popularized by Hollinger but has been around for decades. Just because you dont know **** about it doesnt make it less relevant, it simply means the geeks outsmarted you once again. +/- is another element I didnt mention before, lineup efficiency is considered when making coaching adjustments. +/- has already helped turn playoff series.


No doubt, Chronz will be attending this:
As I said, it's only for the dorks and geeks. NOT the general bball public.

I wish I could but its packed and pricey.

You can label them whatever you wish, the facts will remain when it comes to STATS, you cant touch them. You see they actually get PAID for this, they actually provide input into Roster Decisions and strategy.

Bucsfan40
05-31-2011, 01:18 AM
wont be MJ so it doesnt matter

naps
05-31-2011, 01:43 AM
LMAO @ mavs homers saying Dirk is better than Wade. Wade murdered Dirk on his way to the championship with the greatest finals performances ever. What has Dirk done in his career besides choking? Look ahead if you don't know what I am talking about. He's going to choke once again in the finals.

cutiepie80
05-31-2011, 01:45 AM
LMAO @ mavs homers saying Dirk is better than Wade. Wade murdered Dirk on his way to the championship with the greatest finals performances ever. What has Dirk done in his career besides choking? Look ahead if you don't know what I am talking about. He's going to choke once again in the finals.

Are you seriously saying Wade is better then Nowitski? :facepalm:

Nowitski is going to go down as the best shooting power forward of all time, it isn't even close.

ryang
05-31-2011, 01:51 AM
best shooting power forward does not mean he is better then wade... Give me a break bro WADE> dirk

cutiepie80
05-31-2011, 02:04 AM
best shooting power forward does not mean he is better then wade... Give me a break bro WADE> dirk

Whaaaaat?

Venomous88
05-31-2011, 02:06 AM
Are you seriously saying Wade is better then Nowitski? :facepalm:

Nowitski is going to go down as the best shooting power forward of all time, it isn't even close.Wade is going down as the best shot blocking guard of all time. :rolleyes:

ryang
05-31-2011, 02:07 AM
i mean wade has a ring against dirk... dirk has only played in the western conf finals once and then lost to WADE in the FINALS... Wade is better then dirk... give me a break... yes dirk can shoot the light out but if he was really one of the best shooters of all time why did he lose to wade in the finals and not make it back since?? ok if wade wins again who is better?? Lebron?? come on bro

ryang
05-31-2011, 02:11 AM
WADE>dirk

ryang
05-31-2011, 02:12 AM
maybe in this post season THIS YEAR but thats something wade gave up to win CHAMPIONSHIPS....

PrettyBoyJ
05-31-2011, 02:18 AM
I dont kno if it will do much.. I just kinda realized Wade is old.. He's gonna be 30 next year.. And with his injury history I dont kno how long he can hold up.. I'm not even sure he will pass 20,000 points..

MagicBucsSox
05-31-2011, 02:22 AM
Wade never played relevant basketball without someone name Shaq or LeBron......... That's his legacy

naps
05-31-2011, 02:23 AM
Are you seriously saying Wade is better then Nowitski? :facepalm:

Nowitski is going to go down as the best shooting power forward of all time, it isn't even close.

wow what a dumb post. Ok, tell me why you think Dirk is better than Wade in the all time rank. State your arguments. I am ready for it. C'mon!

ryang
05-31-2011, 02:26 AM
Wade never played relevant basketball without someone name Shaq or LeBron......... That's his legacy

Who played by themselves?? your boy Dwight is all but gone

cutiepie80
05-31-2011, 02:28 AM
Wade is going down as the best shot blocking guard of all time. :rolleyes:

Wow....just wow. That heat asterik has nothing to say about that? It has nothing to say that after he won his ring his team ended up with the worst record in the league?

ryang
05-31-2011, 02:29 AM
everyone got hurt... Big zo shaq ect people went to free agency come on bro Wade is better then dirk

naps
05-31-2011, 02:31 AM
Wade never played relevant basketball without someone name Shaq or LeBron......... That's his legacy

Shaq never played relevant basketball without someone named Penny, Kobe, or Wade. What's your point? Are you mad because Wade is playing for his second championship? Dwight might be as good as gone next year as well to play with another Wade, LeBron, Durant, or somebody.

ryang
05-31-2011, 02:31 AM
If dirk loses he will have the same rep as AI... To normall people anyway

naps
05-31-2011, 02:38 AM
Wow....just wow. That heat asterik has nothing to say about that? It has nothing to say that after he won his ring his team ended up with the worst record in the league?

Team record has nothing do with ONE player. Basketball is a team game. According to your logic, what happened to the best record team in the opening round of 2007? Where was Dirk to save your team?

Listen, if you claim something you need back it up or else people won't take you seriously. You said Dirk is the best shooting bigman and that's why he's better than Wade in all time list? WTF are you on now? Wade is the best shot blocking guard of all time.What is your point here? Wade is a NBA champion. Wade posted the greatest finals performances in history and destroyed Dirk on the way. Look I can go on and on. Support your claim or else gtfo.

ryang
05-31-2011, 02:41 AM
Dirk gets his chance this week but if he choke"s what then?? let me guess wade and lebron cheated with the help of stern the refs ect... I get it dirk is americas guys the next 2 weeks but start making more sence

TheHighLife
05-31-2011, 02:46 AM
Mavs need to win this year, its probably their last chance. The heat still have several more years of winning championships.

MickeyMgl
05-31-2011, 03:26 AM
Lebron will not be in the top 10 with a ring. Maybe top 18 with one. How the hell does he surpass any of these guys in the top 10 with a ring?

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe

That's 10 guys right there with longer primes and better careers than him.

Then you add in guys like Dr J, Moses Malone, Bob Pettit, George Mikan, etc.

Oscar Robertson, Karl Malone (even w/out a ring), Charles Barkley (ditto)...

cutiepie80
05-31-2011, 03:38 AM
Were Rip Hamilton and Ben Wallace better then Karl Malone and Stockton in their prime?

Saying Wafe because he has ONE ring obe Dirk is insane. Dirk is the best shooting player for a 7 foot person I have ever seen. He is almost unguardable. To say a person like Wade, he is great mind you, is better then Dirk is just not even close. I'm sure most people can agree Dirk's career minus a ring is better then Wade's.

cutiepie80
05-31-2011, 03:42 AM
Dirk gets his chance this week but if he choke"s what then?? let me guess wade and lebron cheated with the help of stern the refs ect... I get it dirk is americas guys the next 2 weeks but start making more sence

If the heat win Wade is not the supreme player the heat make him out to be. This is the kings teams. People saying Wade is a better player hen Dirk is a joke. He has cariried that team for 10+ years without major help. Wade has one ring with the help of a great team and coach that year and some awards. People, let's not be such homers and remember how good some players have been without attaining a ring.

Jahari Kavi
05-31-2011, 04:09 AM
Oscar Robertson, Karl Malone (even w/out a ring), Charles Barkley (ditto)...

Bron > Malone and Barkley.....rather easily

SportsFanatic10
05-31-2011, 04:30 AM
Wade never played relevant basketball without someone name Shaq or LeBron......... That's his legacy

hahah ok...

pretty sure wade had an mvp worthy season in 08 leading the league in scoring(30pts on 49%shooting) to go along with 7.5ast, 5reb, 2stl, and 1blk without much help at all. he also led the playoffs last year with 33pts per game although obviously it was a short post season for him only lasting 5 games. and shaq was pretty far over the hill in 06 when wade went crazy on the mavs. the guy averages over 25pts on over 48% shooting for his career hes soo underrated its ridiculous. makes no sense how he doesn't get on nba 1st team or 1st defensive team if kobes gonna get it cause wade has been better for a few years now.

shep33
05-31-2011, 04:53 AM
I love Wade, but Kobe was never the third best player in a series throughout his career. Wade was easily the worst of the three last series against Chicago.

I don't know if I could ever put Wade above Kobe. Wade is likely going to play out his career with 2 great players, whereas Kobe never played with more than 1 all-star in his career, outside of the flashy Lakers of 99 that had 4 all-stars (Eddie Jones, Van Exel, Shaq, and a 19 year old Kobe... Jones and Van Exel were soon dealt).

But since then, he hasn't played with multiple all-stars. Shaq and Pau the only 2.

All that being said, I think Wade can finish at #3 all-time for shooting guards.

naps
05-31-2011, 05:39 AM
Were Rip Hamilton and Ben Wallace better then Karl Malone and Stockton in their prime?

Saying Wafe because he has ONE ring obe Dirk is insane. Dirk is the best shooting player for a 7 foot person I have ever seen. He is almost unguardable. To say a person like Wade, he is great mind you, is better then Dirk is just not even close. I'm sure most people can agree Dirk's career minus a ring is better then Wade's.

Stupid post. How on earth Hamilton and Wallace are compared to Wade? Dirk is nowhere near Wade. He wasn't even the best power forward starting this season. What the hell are you talking about. Pile up the accomplishments and compare with Wade. Also make a poll between the two and see what neutral people think. If you can't do so then stop TROLLING.

naps
05-31-2011, 05:48 AM
i think wade can finish at #2 all-time for shooting guards.

+1

MagicBucsSox
05-31-2011, 06:26 AM
hahah ok...

pretty sure wade had an mvp worthy season in 08 leading the league in scoring(30pts on 49%shooting) to go along with 7.5ast, 5reb, 2stl, and 1blk without much help at all. he also led the playoffs last year with 33pts per game although obviously it was a short post season for him only lasting 5 games. and shaq was pretty far over the hill in 06 when wade went crazy on the mavs. the guy averages over 25pts on over 48% shooting for his career hes soo underrated its ridiculous. makes no sense how he doesn't get on nba 1st team or 1st defensive team if kobes gonna get it cause wade has been better for a few years now.

Lolololololol over the hill Shaq Avg 23 to get them to the ECF, 20 the finals year. Sounds very over the hill. having "a great season" happens every yr with no talent around you hell AI did it a whole career as well LeBron. Wade never carried a team on his back. EVER. That Miami team was loaded out the anus to win that title ala the Miami heat team now.

Dwight had nothing to do with this, he carries his team

Lakers ALL DAY
05-31-2011, 07:32 AM
Let's not forget D. Wade won 15 games in a season as THE MAN, and this is the FIRST time he's out of the first round since 2006......

Fnom11
05-31-2011, 07:33 AM
Let's not forget D. Wade won 15 games in a season as THE MAN, and this is the FIRST time he's out of the first round since 2006......

You mean the season he was out with an injury?

Caution1011
05-31-2011, 08:36 AM
Let's not forget D. Wade won 15 games in a season as THE MAN, and this is the FIRST time he's out of the first round since 2006......

Kobe didn't get out of the first round for a couple of seasons, so you can't say that about Wade. Kobe didn't get out of the first round until they traded for Pau Gasol. Plus Wade was out for the season anyways. Also you seem to forget that the summer that the lakers Kobe wanted to get traded and there were rumors that he was going to Chicago b4 they traded for Gasol

SteBO
05-31-2011, 08:57 AM
Let's not forget D. Wade won 15 games in a season as THE MAN, and this is the FIRST time he's out of the first round since 2006......

Yeah, a separated shoulder then missing the remainder of the year had nothing to do with it. :eyebrow:

Lakers ALL DAY
05-31-2011, 09:20 AM
Yeah, a separated shoulder then missing the remainder of the year had nothing to do with it. :eyebrow:


When D Wade leads his team to 7 trips to the Finals in 11 years, then I'll CONSIDER him on Kobe's ALL TIME level......:silly:

Rentzias
05-31-2011, 09:38 AM
Not to mention Wade already holds the title for one of the greatest finals performances in history, quite possibly the best ever
I will, however, mention J. West scoring 41, 42, 53 (38 ppg, finals MVP on losing team) and pulled a GAME 7 42 pts, 13 boards, 12 dimes in the 1969 Finals.

SteBO
05-31-2011, 09:40 AM
When D Wade leads his team to 7 trips to the Finals in 11 years, then I'll CONSIDER him on Kobe's ALL TIME level......:silly:

I should've expected this response from you considering you're a laker fan. ;) That okay though, I can't blame you.

camador22
05-31-2011, 09:42 AM
When D Wade leads his team to 7 trips to the Finals in 11 years, then I'll CONSIDER him on Kobe's ALL TIME level......:silly:

Where's Kobe??? I forgot sitting at home watching Wade and Lebron win the championship :p

KnicksR4Real
05-31-2011, 09:51 AM
hes got ALOT to go

BuddhaMONK
05-31-2011, 09:53 AM
what legacy his first ring was with shaq who was averaging like 20pts and 10rb (he was still good). And his second possible ring will be as lebrons sidekick.

justinnum1
05-31-2011, 10:22 AM
Where's Kobe??? I forgot sitting at home watching Wade and Lebron win the championship :p

:burn:

footballer2369
05-31-2011, 10:42 AM
Lolololololol over the hill Shaq Avg 23 to get them to the ECF, 20 the finals year. Sounds very over the hill. having "a great season" happens every yr with no talent around you hell AI did it a whole career as well LeBron. Wade never carried a team on his back. EVER. That Miami team was loaded out the anus to win that title ala the Miami heat team now.

Dwight had nothing to do with this, he carries his team

Dwight carries his team to irrelevance and first round exits.

Shaq averaged 13 ppg in the finals...

BigCityofDreams
05-31-2011, 10:47 AM
Dwight carries his team to irrelevance and first round exits.

Shaq averaged 13 ppg in the finals...

And if the reports are true he's going to be doing that for a couple of more yrs.

ATX
05-31-2011, 10:49 AM
what legacy his first ring was with shaq who was averaging like 20pts and 10rb (he was still good). And his second possible ring will be as lebrons sidekick.

:speechless: So just absolutely zero credit for Wade? Someone who not only is a Finals MVP, but who led the Heat to the Semi's in his first year, who has been to the ECF 3x's, won 4 division's in eight years, NBA finals twice now...Chance at a 2nd ring, led his team to the playoffs in every season, with the exception of the season he was hurt and playing with D Leaguer's and Marion as his #2...It's safe to assume that he will continue building on his success, and may very well end up 3 or 4 rings. Career Avgs that are better than Kobe in FG%, Pts, Asts, Stls, and Blks.

Shaq averaged 20 and 9.2 that year, while only playing in 59 games, and everyone could CLEARLY see that Wade put that '06 team on his back in the Finals to win the championship. I don't see how 20 and 9 is as amazing as how you are trying to make it sound. After Shaq left, Wade had easily his worst supporting cast until this year. Playing with Marion, and then with a completely washed up Jermaine O'Neal, and 19/20 year old chucker in Beasley. Still, Wade led those teams to 47 and 43 wins and a spot in the playoffs as the 5 seed. Even if he's second fiddle now as you claim, and I agree Wade has struggled a bit in these playoffs, (Injury speculation aside), the man is still averaging 24/7/4.

I by no means am saying that Wade will be top 10. Top 50, without question. But to ask what legacy? That is just absolutely absurd.

SportsFanatic10
05-31-2011, 04:24 PM
I love Wade, but Kobe was never the third best player in a series throughout his career. Wade was easily the worst of the three last series against Chicago.

I don't know if I could ever put Wade above Kobe. Wade is likely going to play out his career with 2 great players, whereas Kobe never played with more than 1 all-star in his career, outside of the flashy Lakers of 99 that had 4 all-stars (Eddie Jones, Van Exel, Shaq, and a 19 year old Kobe... Jones and Van Exel were soon dealt).

But since then, he hasn't played with multiple all-stars. Shaq and Pau the only 2.

All that being said, I think Wade can finish at #3 all-time for shooting guards.


i wouldn't put him over kobe either. to be clear kobe prime/career > than wade prime/career. what i was saying is wade has surpassed him as a player in the present day being younger and more efficient. kobe has been living off of his name and reputation lately. gasol should of won finals mvp over him and kobe keeps getting all nba 1st team and 1st defensive team nods over more deserving players like wade at this point. wades been putting up slightly better numbers since 08 i believe and without as much help untill this season.

and wade being the 3rd best player for a series on his team means nothing. it just shows how unselfish he is and how bad he wants to win. he has no ego and will just play whatever roll is needed to win or else he wouldn't of had lebron join him.

SportsFanatic10
05-31-2011, 04:42 PM
Lolololololol over the hill Shaq Avg 23 to get them to the ECF, 20 the finals year. Sounds very over the hill. having "a great season" happens every yr with no talent around you hell AI did it a whole career as well LeBron. Wade never carried a team on his back. EVER. That Miami team was loaded out the anus to win that title ala the Miami heat team now.

Dwight had nothing to do with this, he carries his team


shaq 06 reg season 17pts 7reb 1.8blk.
shaq finals 14pts 10rebs .83blk.

shaq was still a good center in the league but you can't say he was the superstar he used to be earlier in his career. the heat got rid of him shortly after for obvious reasons.

wade finals 35pts 8rebs 4ast 2.6stl 1blk no thats not carrying your team:rolleyes:.

DabullsDabearsD
05-31-2011, 10:50 PM
• Speaking of the refs, Game 5 of the Finals took its rightful place alongside Game 7 of the Seattle-Phoenix series in 1993, Game 6 of the Kings-Lakers series in 2002, Game 5 of the Knicks-Celtics series in 1973 and some of the other famous entries in the Pantheon of One-Sided Officiated Games. We're running some e-mails in a sidebar (look to the right), but you know it's bad when the owner of the losing team runs out onto the floor to stare down the commissioner after the game -- the last time that happened at a sporting event, Vince McMahon was involved.



(FYI: In today's Miami Herald, Greg Cote writes that Cuban was screaming profanely at referee Joe DeRosa right after the game, "then turned to Stern and other NBA officials who were seated at the scorer's table and was overheard to shout venomously in the jubilant din, ' you! [Bleep] you! Your league is rigged!'" Remember when I wrote that, on a scale of 1-to-10 about being excited for the moment when Stern handed Cuban the trophy, I was a 35? Now I'm a 72. Although Cuban did deny saying this on his blog.)



[B]
First, Dwyane Wade shot as many free throws (25) as the entire Dallas team in Game 5. I just don't see how there's any way this can happen in a fairly-called game. It's theoretically impossible.



Second, everyone knew the officiating would be a problem heading into this series because of Cuban's past problems with the league. In my Finals preview, I wrote that "No team depends on the refs quite like the Heat. When the refs are calling all the bumps on Shaq and protecting Wade on every drive, they're unstoppable. When they're calling everything fairly, they're eminently beatable. If they're not getting any calls, they're just about hopeless. I could see the refs swinging two games in Miami's favor during this series, possibly three. In fact, I'm already depressed about it and the series hasn't even started yet." Well, we had our two games -- Game 3 (the last five minutes were just obscene) and Game 5 (again, a top-five debacle). And the series isn't over yet.



Third, here's a theory on referees that I described in a blog last spring:



"I don't think the NBA fixes games, but they have one trick that they use for situations like this -- when they want a home team to win the game, they invariably assign the worst referees possible to that game for two reasons: Bad referees have a tendency to get swayed by the home crowd, and bad referees never have the stones to make a tough call on the road. In a related story, I went to 35 Clippers games this year and kept a list of the referees in my pocket which I also used to follow the referees for any televised games. And yes, the referees in the NBA -- as a whole -- have never been worse. But there were six referees that stuck out as being especially terrible."



Then I went on to list the worst six referees. Here was No. 2 on the list:



"2. Bennett Salvatore -- Always one of the worst, he took it to another level this season. If you see him on the court at the start of the game, get ready for about six technicals, two near-brawls and both coaches having to be restrained by their assistants at various times."



Why is this relevant? Not only did Salvatore officiate Game 4 of the Suns-Lakers series (the one where Kobe tied it at the end of regulation and won it at the end of OT on two shaky non-calls on Nash, both by Salvatore), not only did Salvatore officiate Sunday night's Game 5 (in which Miami had a 40-12 free-throw advantage at one point), but Salvatore called the foul on Wade's final drive in overtime (remember, the call where ABC couldn't find a replay to show that anyone touched him?) even though he was standing at midcourt a full 35-40 feet from the play, and even though two other refs were closer to the play. Not only was that NOT his call, he butchered it.



Considering I brought this up LAST spring, do you find any of this a little strange? Why aren't the best referees calling these games? Why do the worst ones always seem to get assigned to games in which it would be better for the league if the home team won? Why am I the only one who notices this stuff or seems to care? Why do I find myself watching these games and concentrating more on the one-sided officiating than some of Wade's spectacular plays? As my buddy House e-mailed on Monday morning: "I don't think I can take much more of NBA refs insisting on controlling the outcomes of the most significant games. The NBA is a disgrace and should be completely embarrassed. I hate this game."



And that's coming from one of the last 19 NBA diehards -- I can only imagine what the casual fans thought after watching such a one-sided travesty. Look, we all love Dwyane Wade. He's fantastic. But there's absolutely no scenario in which a 2-guard should be attempting as many free throws as everyone on the other team. It's absolutely unfathomable. And here's what really kills me: If there's a Game 7, you KNOW they'll come up with the best possible officials for that particular game. So why wouldn't every Finals game work like that? We have seven possible games spread over 17 days ... they couldn't pick the best three or four refs and have them work every game, like how MLB picks the best seven umps to comprise the World Series crew? Why wouldn't that work? Is there a single reason you can come up with? Arrrrrrrrgh.



Know Heat fans need to shut up and go to bed, its way past your bedtime.

12evolution 9
06-01-2011, 12:50 AM
OMFG quit crying on the calls...

Dwyane Wade drove in constantly ... and he kept getting fouled by terry/dampier/howard/ and basically every1 on that team then... even Keith Van Horn...


the point is Wade then was more of a acrobatic stubborn player who had the will of a warrior to constantly drive the ball and work his magic...


You can take your theory and shove it....



he is going down as 1 of the best of all time

ryang
06-01-2011, 12:52 AM
foul calls?? did u watch the games?? if u did your opinion sounds like i hate the heat and wade.. keep hating while we win it all

naps
06-01-2011, 01:19 AM
• Speaking of the refs, Game 5 of the Finals took its rightful place alongside Game 7 of the Seattle-Phoenix series in 1993, Game 6 of the Kings-Lakers series in 2002, Game 5 of the Knicks-Celtics series in 1973 and some of the other famous entries in the Pantheon of One-Sided Officiated Games. We're running some e-mails in a sidebar (look to the right), but you know it's bad when the owner of the losing team runs out onto the floor to stare down the commissioner after the game -- the last time that happened at a sporting event, Vince McMahon was involved.



(FYI: In today's Miami Herald, Greg Cote writes that Cuban was screaming profanely at referee Joe DeRosa right after the game, "then turned to Stern and other NBA officials who were seated at the scorer's table and was overheard to shout venomously in the jubilant din, ' you! [Bleep] you! Your league is rigged!'" Remember when I wrote that, on a scale of 1-to-10 about being excited for the moment when Stern handed Cuban the trophy, I was a 35? Now I'm a 72. Although Cuban did deny saying this on his blog.)



[B]
First, Dwyane Wade shot as many free throws (25) as the entire Dallas team in Game 5. I just don't see how there's any way this can happen in a fairly-called game. It's theoretically impossible.



Second, everyone knew the officiating would be a problem heading into this series because of Cuban's past problems with the league. In my Finals preview, I wrote that "No team depends on the refs quite like the Heat. When the refs are calling all the bumps on Shaq and protecting Wade on every drive, they're unstoppable. When they're calling everything fairly, they're eminently beatable. If they're not getting any calls, they're just about hopeless. I could see the refs swinging two games in Miami's favor during this series, possibly three. In fact, I'm already depressed about it and the series hasn't even started yet." Well, we had our two games -- Game 3 (the last five minutes were just obscene) and Game 5 (again, a top-five debacle). And the series isn't over yet.



Third, here's a theory on referees that I described in a blog last spring:



"I don't think the NBA fixes games, but they have one trick that they use for situations like this -- when they want a home team to win the game, they invariably assign the worst referees possible to that game for two reasons: Bad referees have a tendency to get swayed by the home crowd, and bad referees never have the stones to make a tough call on the road. In a related story, I went to 35 Clippers games this year and kept a list of the referees in my pocket which I also used to follow the referees for any televised games. And yes, the referees in the NBA -- as a whole -- have never been worse. But there were six referees that stuck out as being especially terrible."



Then I went on to list the worst six referees. Here was No. 2 on the list:



"2. Bennett Salvatore -- Always one of the worst, he took it to another level this season. If you see him on the court at the start of the game, get ready for about six technicals, two near-brawls and both coaches having to be restrained by their assistants at various times."



Why is this relevant? Not only did Salvatore officiate Game 4 of the Suns-Lakers series (the one where Kobe tied it at the end of regulation and won it at the end of OT on two shaky non-calls on Nash, both by Salvatore), not only did Salvatore officiate Sunday night's Game 5 (in which Miami had a 40-12 free-throw advantage at one point), but Salvatore called the foul on Wade's final drive in overtime (remember, the call where ABC couldn't find a replay to show that anyone touched him?) even though he was standing at midcourt a full 35-40 feet from the play, and even though two other refs were closer to the play. Not only was that NOT his call, he butchered it.



Considering I brought this up LAST spring, do you find any of this a little strange? Why aren't the best referees calling these games? Why do the worst ones always seem to get assigned to games in which it would be better for the league if the home team won? Why am I the only one who notices this stuff or seems to care? Why do I find myself watching these games and concentrating more on the one-sided officiating than some of Wade's spectacular plays? As my buddy House e-mailed on Monday morning: "I don't think I can take much more of NBA refs insisting on controlling the outcomes of the most significant games. The NBA is a disgrace and should be completely embarrassed. I hate this game."



And that's coming from one of the last 19 NBA diehards -- I can only imagine what the casual fans thought after watching such a one-sided travesty. Look, we all love Dwyane Wade. He's fantastic. But there's absolutely no scenario in which a 2-guard should be attempting as many free throws as everyone on the other team. It's absolutely unfathomable. And here's what really kills me: If there's a Game 7, you KNOW they'll come up with the best possible officials for that particular game. So why wouldn't every Finals game work like that? We have seven possible games spread over 17 days ... they couldn't pick the best three or four refs and have them work every game, like how MLB picks the best seven umps to comprise the World Series crew? Why wouldn't that work? Is there a single reason you can come up with? Arrrrrrrrgh.



Know Heat fans need to shut up and go to bed, its way past your bedtime.

Another Bulls fan :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

It's time to take a break from basketball for you guys. Spending time here ain't gonna help to get over with what we did to you guys. We are going to celebrate the championship here once again so it's better you stay away from it or else you are gonna have to write some more essays like this night in and night out. Have a nice summer.

Sixerlover
06-01-2011, 01:47 AM
Wade's legacy won't change much. He clearly isn't the #1 option on the team anymore, and isn't the "Batman". He's still a great SG though, 2 rings may catapult him into top 10 SG of all time. I'll definitely give him that, so it will change.

YourTeamSucks
06-01-2011, 01:51 AM
second ring and he handed lebron his first idk where he will be ranked but it should be above lebron

rabzouz 96
06-01-2011, 06:12 AM
second ring and he handed lebron his first idk where he will be ranked but it should be above lebron
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQZi7tmWhR4

JordansBulls
06-01-2011, 08:55 AM
Dwight carries his team to irrelevance and first round exits.

Shaq averaged 13 ppg in the finals...

Dwight carried a team to the finals as the underdog.

MiamiWadeCounty
06-01-2011, 09:36 AM
Wade's legacy won't change much. He clearly isn't the #1 option on the team anymore, and isn't the "Batman". He's still a great SG though, 2 rings may catapult him into top 10 SG of all time. I'll definitely give him that, so it will change.

He is already easily top 10 all-time for SGs. Another ring would clearly put him in top 5 all-time.

MickeyMgl
06-13-2011, 06:38 PM
Bron > Malone and Barkley.....rather easily

I would have dismissed this opinion with a smirk and no reply, but "rather easily" makes it full-on comedy. That's absurd.

MickeyMgl
06-13-2011, 06:53 PM
Where's Kobe??? I forgot sitting at home watching Wade and Lebron win the championship :p

:cool:

Bruno
06-13-2011, 07:19 PM
/thread?

knicks4life33
06-13-2011, 09:13 PM
I personaly think if it wasnt for wade this finals would prob been dallas in 4 games if wade didnt carry the heat. Wade has proven he plays the best in the finals exception of the last game and he was the only one out of the big 3 who really showed up.